This week we’re joined by former NFL Scout Dan Hatman, who made headlines recently with some comments about Heisman winner Derrick Henry. If you missed what he said, here’s a catch up. Hatman’s mention of a fourth round grade drew ire from Gil Brandt — and he touches on that in the podcast. Have a listen. Kenny and I also talk some Seahawks in the second half.
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Say what you will about PFF’s per-game ratings, but their overall player rating (considering the large sample size for a full season) is a good tool for evaluation. Derrick Henry is just their 10th-rated RB, and 5th-rated among those who are draft-eligible. In the right system I can see Henry being drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round, but a 4th-round grade isn’t unreasonable.
Fournette and McCaffrey stand out not just because of their amazing abilities and numbers, but because they’re more plug-and-play type guys for almost any offense, which is why they’re more like 1st/high 2nd round types. I’d also place Zeke Elliott close to that territory for 2016, and I think that he’ll be drafted before Henry.
Also, I have a question about PFF for any PFF subscriber: Does a “Player Grades” subscription allow you access to grades for college players as well as NFL players? I’m looking for the best resource for comprehensive grades for college players, but it’s not clear how one accesses those on PFF.
I liked Bill Belichick response to PFF (and similar grading services) recently… I’ll paraphrase it… “Bullbleep”
Thanks for the help! I’ll take that under advisement.
There was an article recently on it… and they talked with “the hoodie” about it more in-depth than I’ve heard before. He actually gave some insightful answers and showed that no matter where everyone else ranks a player (mock drafts), it only matters what the GM and Coach thinks when it comes to the draft (or player eval overall).
Rob and others what are your thoughts on junior WR Demarcus Ayers, Houston. Looks like he is going to enter the draft. When I watch tape he looks like the type of fast sudden receiver the Hawks like in the mould of a P Rich / Lockett.
He seems an ideal slot receiver for the next level but has the speed to line up outside too. He has also been a play maker in return game where he’s special with excellent burst and open-field vision would be a nice compliment / back up to Lockett. One thing I love about Ayers, besides his 4.3 speed, is that he’s fearless over the middle and catches everything trown at him. Very similar to our guys in that regard small but tough enough to make an impact between the numbers.
Davis out of Western MIch is my favorite WR in the 3rd round range but I like Ayers as well.
I like Ayers. Great backstory too.
IDK about 3rd round range. Looks like the prototypical small, shifty, fast, overlooked wideout that goes on day 3 every year.
Couple other receivers in the mid-late range are Richmond’s Reggie Diggs, big bodied guy, and Liberty’s ‘Petey’ Peterson, who has a ‘Seahawky’ style.
I like Ragin Cajun Jamal Robinson. Golden Tate in Sidney Rice’s body.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wda3o-Z5vVA
He’s intriguing for sure.
Robinson’s got an NFL body too. Very mature, overcame a lot growing up, and should test well athletically.
I don’t think he’s a speedster. I read somewhere his 40 time is around 4.6. But he’s as strong as a moose and can jump – played basketball in high school.
I like how he catches well in tight coverage and isn’t afraid of contact. Gets tough YAC.
NFL body – that’s what caught my eye. He looks more physically mature than his age.
Yeah I like Peterson too and he maybe another UDFA steal.
If we take a WR in the 3rd -4th range like normal who do you like most Vol?
Oh boy. That’s a great question. IMO it’s a decent class for wideouts, not great though. And there’s a couple juniors who may or may not declare that I like too.
3rd-4th round range? IDK that I like just one particular guy. I like Oklahoma’s Sterling Shepard, Ayers, Corey Davis, Lawler, Travin Dural, ‘Hollywood’ Higgins, and some others.
There’s also some later round guys I like too. I’ll bring up some other names as I continue to break them down.
Arizona’s WR Cayleb Jones is someone I’m very high on at the moment, but he might not declare.
Keep an eye on route runners, no matter the size.
Auburn’s Ricardo Louis is interesting too.
I forgot to add Pharoh Cooper.
Yeah, not sure the talent curve for WRs is best in the mid rounds this year. A lot of intriguing prospects, but in reality most are Day 3 types.
IMO R3-R4 is best for RB and DT this year.
Yeah-I’d have to agree there.
Thanks for great list for me to check out further. I really like Pharroh Cooper as well.
Braxton Miller too. But, he’s probably outta that range.
And I might be in the minority, but Miss St WR De’Runnya ‘Bear’ Wilson could be very appealing to Seattle. He’s in DGB’s wheelhouse. Where does he go as well though?
And Miss St has another guy by the name of Fred Ross. For a bigger receiver, his COD and suddenness are excellent.
I think it depends on his combine #s. He certainly would be a nice big outside target. My only fear is Russ did not seem comfortable throwing contested balls to Matthews or even Graham for that matter. He really does focus on ball security and not throwing contested balls that could be picked if the WR does not win the battle.
Watch De’Runnya Wilson. The majority of his receptions come on quick slants or back shoulder throws.
And that’s such a misnomer. When RW was at Wisconsin his go to guy was Nick Toon and in 2012 it was Sidney Rice.
I still like Jordan Payton. Especially if SEA isn’t inclined to re-up Kearse.
Rob,
Any chance you can get ahold of Dan again? I wish you would have asked him about the Curious Case of Shon Coleman. He continues to be largely absent on mocks and draft boards, and I can’t figure out why. You think the talent jumps off the film, it’s like others don’t see it at all. Why?
People have suggested various reasons, but none make sense. If it was the cancer history, they’d at least say he’d be a top pick but for the medical history. If it was that he might not come out, that doesn’t stop them from ranking everybody else. I would have been curious to hear if he had any answer for it.
Honestly I think you answered it yourself. Shon Coleman is the top two if not top ot in the draft. But he has his cancer battle. That will scare teams over long haul. Not to say he won’t beat it, I pray to God that he does. But that is a very serious illness that often pops back up. But that also might put him in range for the Seahawks, who I think would jump on it. I wish him nothing but success wherever he might go, (hoping the Seahawks!)
I think, no matter what if he is in range for the Seahawks top selection I say jump on it. Whether we resign okung or not. We can move him to lg, rt, lt if okung goes down. The dude can play anywhere at a pro bowl level. It would be a huge get for our team.
Agree completely Kyle. If he is there and his medicals check out he has to be the pick IMO.
NFL announces 7 Hawks to the Pro Bowl: QB Russell Wilson, LB Bobby Wagner, DE Michael Bennett, S Earl Thomas, S Kam Chancellor, CB Richard Sherman, and KR/PR Tyler Lockett
5 alternates: DE Cliff Avril, WR Doug Baldwin, K Steven Hauschka, RB Marshawn Lynch, and LT Russell Okung
No love for KJ Wright?
Lynch? That’s a head scratcher.
And how is Doug Baldwin not more than an alternate?
His hot streak didn’t get started till the voting was almost closed.
Fan voting shouldn’t be a part of the selection mix. The coaches and players KNOW who’s earned it.
At least Bennett finally got recognized.
How on earth did Kam make it this season?
Fan voting. Kam and Earl are the safety defaults at this point. Just like Sherman. K.J. Wright is the most deserving “inside” linebacker in the NFL in my opinion. I know he plays WLB, but his role is very similar to an ILB on a 3-4 defense. He has been sensational this year.
4-3 defense with 3-4 personnel.
What do all 7 of the Seahawks named to the pro bowl have in common? I’ll wait…
All were drafted by SEA (or in the case of Bennett, signed as an UDFA). No FAs.
Bingo. I had a feelin’ it was gonna be you that guessed correctly.
That’s awesome! I didn’t realize this until you guys pointed it out.
Maybe I’m just getting old and/or went to a few too many concerts, but Dan Hatman’s audio was so poor I couldn’t understand about a third of what he had to say. Also, I think you can eliminate the echo effect if you wear headphones instead of using speakers.
One thing I did catch, that I think is important – talent and value are two different things.
It was poor. On the feed they had on FieldGulls, they even made an apology about the quality.
I’m not an expert in the new found internet communication… but having worked in radio (sometime ago), I would not have put that out. It was indeed hard to understand completely what he was saying…. fingers crossed they clean up the technically difficulties and make shorter segments.. like 20 min a subject.
Kam made it on hype sure didn’t do it with performance
Yeah not sure how he mad the pro bowl the way he has played this year. Reputation only. Glad to see 7 Hawks on the squad though. Really wish Baldwin and Avril had made it. I thought both were deserving.
Calvin Johnson? what a joke. Somewhere Angry Doug gets a little angrier…
CHawk, what’s your take on USC DL Greg Townsend, jr.
Truly, he’s one of USC’s biggest recruiting busts in the post-Carroll era in terms of expectations vs results. Son of an all pro DE, a seriously impressive athlete and a nationally coveted prep prospect. But in 5 years (including a red shirt season) he’s had one injury after another, at least until this year.
SC Nation was hoping he could step up and take over for Leonard Williams this year. And while he has “stepped up” in terms of staying healthy and active, he didn’t replace Williams in terms of production and play. Maybe that’s an unfair comparison considering Williams was a high R1 pick. But that’s the kind of potential Townsend has.
On a positive note, he flashed at times this year, and his impact was greater than the sum of his stats. Kind of like Avril – may not get the sack numbers, but he usually pressures the QB. Physically he reminds me of Bennett, but not as strong. If he spends an off season in an NFL training program he might develop into a decent rotational player.
At this point I’d say he’s a late Day3/UDFA pick.
Thanks for the info my man.
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Important lesson for March … Only two 2015 free agents made this year’s Pro Bowl: Jets CB Darrelle Revis and Cardinals G Mike Iupati.
@Rob: Any chance you could make a post listing players to watch in each of TE remaining bowl games, with a short write-up on how they could fit in with Hawks and what round they are expecting to go?
Lot to ask, but it would be helpful to me as I don’t watch a ton of college football. Thank you
Kenny Clark has received a R2 grade from the draft advisory board, may return to UCLA for his senior season.
It seems like a lot of underclassmen have received round 2 grades.
Tyler Boyd, Tre’Davious White, Emmanuel Ogbah might not declare.
And it looks like Pat Elfein and Will Fuller are coming back for their senior seasons.
This Alex McAllister, EDGE, Florida, reminds me of a raw/less refined version of Randy Gregory. Rumor is he’ll be very SPARQy.
I heard someone recently, maybe Clayton, maybe Rob, mentioning how 1st round grades are going to be given less frequently. They didn’t want underclassmen declaring and being disappointed by going lower than their grade.
Basically from what I understand they’re hesitant to give out first round grades unless it’s very likely to happen. If you tell a prospect he’s going in R1 and he ends up in the middle of round two — you’ve let him down because he’s making a decision on false info. So generally they err on the side of caution. A lot of R1 guys will hear R2. Von Miller and Aaron Curry were told R3 and both went top-five.
Nice call on McCalister. He was overshadowed by Bullard but he had a nice junior season – 9.5 TFL, 6.5 sacks.
But….he was dismissed from the team last week for “violating team rules” and will miss the Citrus Bowl. Gotta wonder what he did and what it will do to his stock.
Anyway, if SEA took a R6 flier on Obum Gwacham last year, you’d think they’d give McCalister a hard look if he’s available in that general range.