A few more thoughts on Derrius Guice

December 14th, 2017 | Written by Rob Staton

This week Todd McShay published his first mock draft with the Seahawks selecting LSU running back Derrius Guice. We addressed the pick here.

I wanted to offer a few more thoughts on Guice today.

There’s no doubting he’s a tough, physical runner. He’s well sized at a listed 5-11 and 212lbs and that’s more or less in Seattle’s ballpark for profile.

There are two really good qualities about his game. Firstly, he’s tough to bring down. He’ll collide into defenders, bounce away from the initial contact and get extra yardage. He’s not an easy get if he can find a crease to the second level:

This quality helps in the red zone too. He’s really tough:

So while he’s not necessarily a big, physical tone-setter — defenders are going to need to bring it to get him on the turf.

His second best quality is he’s quite adept at hitting the line with authority. He’s not going to be the fastest tester at the combine — but he generally gets up to speed quickly and he’s assertive in his decision making. He scampers rather than sprints but it enables him to chew up ground:

He’s not lightning quick but those short strides enable him to cover a lot of yards. He doesn’t run away from many defenders and there are plenty of examples where he gets caught from behind. Yet that initial burst and decisiveness at the line make up for a lack of pure speed.

So here’s what I think he is — a tough as nails running back who won’t quit and has enough initial quickness to take advantage of good blocking. He will effectively take what is available more often than not and leave everything on the field.

It’s also worth noting, however, that he is quite limited physically.

Speed isn’t everything for a running back. Explosive traits can make up for a lack of pure straight-line speed. Unfortunately for Guice he seems to be lacking in both areas. His game is going to be more about tough physical running than it is about great athleticism. There’s a danger, however, that at the next level he’ll struggle to stand out against a higher level of athletic competition.

Let’s compare Guice to some of his peers.

Here’s his workout from the SPARQ combine:

Height: 5’11”
Weight: 216
40: 4.61
Short Shuttle: 4.66
Vertical Leap: 30.4″
Power Throw: 35.0″
SPARQ: 83.37

This is a particularly pedestrian workout compared to some of the other running backs in this class. For example, here’s how Damien Harris performed:

Height: 5-10
Weight: 210lbs
40-yard: 4.48
Short shuttle: 4.00
Vertical: 38 inches
SPARQ: 126.93

Again, workouts aren’t everything. Guice’s mentality and physicality will cover some of the physical flaws. Yet Harris is quicker and more explosive per his testing results and you do see evidence of that on tape (for more on Harris check out this piece from a few weeks ago).

Harris is also just as tough and physical as Guice, he’s just as difficult to bring down:

But he also does this:

And of course this:

Now let’s look at Oregon’s Royce Freeman:

Height: 6-0
Weight: 227lbs
40-yard: 4.58
Short shuttle: 4.07
Vertical: 33.6 inches
SPARQ: 121.17

Freeman was 10lbs heavier than Guice at the SPARQ combine but ran a slightly quicker forty time. He was far superior to Guice in the short shuttle and he had a more explosive vertical jump.

A lot of people enjoyed comparing the brilliant Leonard Fournette with Guice last year, after Guice successfully spelled the now Jacksonville Jaguar. Fournette at his SPARQ combine didn’t do all of the tests (and therefore didn’t receive an overall score) but it’s worth noting how much quicker he was in the short shuttle (4.3 vs 4.66) despite being exactly 10lbs heavier. At the NFL combine Fournette ran a 4.51 — 0.10 seconds quicker than Guice’s SPARQ test.

Dalvin Cook managed a 110.64 SPARQ score at his workout. It wasn’t a brilliant performance given his size (5-11, 196lbs) but it’s still considerably higher than Guice’s 83.37.

I’ll say it again because I want this message to be clear. SPARQ isn’t everything. Explosive testing isn’t everything. However, the Seahawks have a pretty consistent track record in drafting explosive testers at running back (the history of which is detailed in my Damien Harris piece).

I can imagine the Seahawks appreciating and liking Guice’s running style and his vibrant personality. Yet one of the objective’s of this blog is to try and discuss trends and use the information we have to judge how likely a player is to end up a Seahawk. We won’t get everything right. It seems, however, that Guice will likely need a better workout at the NFL combine if he’s going to be a first round pick by Seattle.

It’s a competitive group of running backs. Little things like a great physical profile and durability will end up being a difference maker in the final rankings.

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118 Responses to “A few more thoughts on Derrius Guice”

  1. Kenny Sloth says:

    Another genuinely great piece Rob. You’ve seemed to hit stride from the jump this year.

    If only the Seahawks could get out to such a fast start.

  2. CharlieTheUnicorn says:

    This isn’t RB realated but….
    Georgia LB Roquan Smith was a name just brought up on NFL.com article by Lance Zierlein as a player on the rise in the upcoming draft. (6’1″ 200+ lbs). He is also highly rated by PPF as a sure tackler in space.

    The skinny: Smith is fast and physical. He showed noticeable improvement from last season to 2017. Smith is a former high school receiver and possesses high-end athletic traits, which carry him to more tackle opportunities than most linebackers see. His instincts are solid and he has the ability to cover some of the most athletic running backs in space. Smith’s tackle production, speed and three-down talent make him one of the most talked about prospects in college football right now. He has a great opportunity to help himself even more against Baker Mayfield and Oklahoma in the Rose Bowl on Jan. 1.

    They are saying he is a natural fit as a WILL in the NFL….. what say you seahawksdraftblogites?

  3. C-Dog says:

    Great write up, Rob. It only makes me want Harris in Seattle all the more. Go Hawks!

  4. Kenny Sloth says:

    Just rewatching some Damien Harris.

    Seeing him against Arkansas, taking over the game, you just dont see that from Rashaad Penny.

    Akrum Wadley is fluid, explosive, and has soft hands for Iowa!

    Royce Freeman might have the best combination of vision and creativity in the class, but he’s extremely impatient. He makes moves that you wont believe, but then can’t weave through traffic or let downfield blocks develop. He’s the most amazing back behind the LOS, but so disappointing in the open field.

    If Freeman is a Rolls Royce, Nick Chubb is a freakin’ Ferrari. Royce is built for comfort and luxury, the prettiest whip in the garage. Chubb is all about that action- Practical and impressive

    Damien Harris reminds me so much of Thomas Rawls in running style. And I love it. Can’t decide between him and Nick Chubb for 3rd best back. Bryce Love has some allure as well.

    I like the way pundits try to frame Chubb and Michel as “Thunder & Lightning'” even though they’re so the same player…
    I dont think Chubb is 100% back yet, either.

    Martez Carter at Grambling is pretty clean for a tiny dude. Sure loves getting popped… Must be why he runs so high.

    Saquon Barkley is a technician in a power backs body.

    I really don’t much like Kamryn Pettway, Rashaad Penny, or LJ Scott.

    Kalen Ballage is fun to watch, but so awkward being that tall. He could almost be a nice receiver for somebody.

    • East Side Stevie says:

      I like Akrum Wadley a lot. But, the Seahawks have JD mckissik it would like take a 5th rounder for Wadley MAYBE a 4th. Akrum doesn’t fit the profile the seahawk require. More wishful thinking at this point.

    • JimQ says:

      “Damien Harris. Seeing him against Arkansas, taking over the game, you just don’t see that from Rashaad Penny.”

      I understand that Penny comes from a smaller school and level of competition is of at least, some concern.
      On 10/14/17, against Arkansas, Harris (#70 in FCS) had 9 carries for 125-yds & 2-TD’s, a very nice game.
      in 12 games so far Harris has a line of 110/906/8.24-ypc/11-TD’s, which are damn good RBC #’s.

      in 12 games so far, Rashaad Penny (#1 in FCS) has a line of 275/2027/7.37-ypc/19-TD’s rushing.

      To be fair, neither Harris or Penney are big producers as pass catchers, although serviceable Harris has zero receiving or ST TD’s, Penney has 2-TD’s receiving & 1-TD’s as a punt returner & has good abilities as a K/O returner with a line of 15/459/30.6-ypr with 2-TD’s for the season.

      It’s interesting that stat wise, Penney has over double the rushing yards & TD’s & has gone over 200-yds in each of his last 4 games this season he is 96/912/9.5- ypc/9-TD’s. What I find interesting are that Penney’s 4-game #’s are better than Harris’s whole season. I personally would say that Penney hasn’t taken over more than his share of games.

      NOTE: I’m not dissing Harris, I understand that he’s a great part time RB, with low tread on his tires, which is a nice plus for the 1-st Rd pick he’ll likely cost. Penny, on the other hand, has proven himself to be a 2000-yd/19-TD workhorse of a RB, but he has also been relatively free of injury, making his “availability” a plus. The slightly lower level of competition, likely keeps Penny in the Rd-4/5 area, which would be right where the Seahawks may have picks available. IMO, Penny would be a good plan B, IF, they don’t manage to get a RB earlier. Plan C for me would be Sony Michel, followed by Plan D, Royce Freeman.

      • peter says:

        Penny is very, very good at the FCS including games against the FBS. A point that Volume12 brought up a few posts back is that Seattle tends to pick players early anyways from the Power five conferences. With Wagner the lone exception.

        later for RB they have looked outside with Robert Turbin which is just one player out of 7 picks (kiero small I know was a FB but still, Arkansas) So Penny later I could definitely concede to. You have to think that Pete Carrol would have been aware of Turbin from his days at USC and I think it helped Turbin quite a bit for him to play with bobby Wagner as the team scouted him at Utah State and followed him from his days playing in the LA area.

        I will say that Seattle sees something from SDSU having already drafted Terry Poole and Eric Pinkins from there so maybe that helps Penny this year.

      • Kenny Sloth says:

        Stats without context are meaningless

        He also ran for 2.5 ypc against Boise State in a huge game. (For them)

        His OL does all the work, so I cant see what I need to see from him.

        • Icb12 says:

          The San Diego State OL is decidedly average.

          I haven’t found a site that tracks yards after contact for the NCAA but I would wager that Alabama’s oline does just as much if not more for Harris as SDSU,s OL does for Penney

          If you take a look at football outsiders. They have some pretty cool stats. I know not everyone is into that, but it’s pretty interesting in their attempt and I would say it’s not without value.

          Anyway. You will find that Alabamas oline ranks 7 in adjusted line yards and 5th in stuff rate. SDSU is

          • Kenny Sloth says:

            Penny picks up yards after contact, yeah, but his OL is consistently getting push and he isn’t forced to create.

            Im looking for technicality, athleticism, creativity, power/balance, vision and he isn’t displaying next level traits in those departments.

            He looks like a 3 ypc guy to me!

            “Decidedly average”; Then why were they a finalist (?) for the midseason trophy for best OL unit?

            How much San Diego State do you watch?

            Football Outsiders is great, but you can’t just go by stats without personally watching enough of a guy

            • Icb12 says:

              I wasn’t aware they were midseason award finalists. I just don’t see it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

              I watched the Boise st game, 1/2 the Nevada game, 1/2 the Fresno State game, the air Force game, the Stanford game, the az State game, and the Hawaii game. Technically I watched the stanford game twice.

            • JimQ says:

              My normal means of evaluating potential draft picks is to start with looking at full season stats, second, I watch all the film I can find on the internet (+ watching post season games) for each player I’m evaluating and make my notes of what I see, It is time consuming, as we all know, but film study trumps stats most days. Having said all that, I’m currently about half way thru my RB evaluations thus far.

              Nobody seems to like stats, but why do we all first describe good players by reciting their stats? Why are there so many websites that compile and produce stats at the significant labour costs of producing & publishing them? Are not combine results just another bunch of stats? When we watch college or NFL games, why are stats flashed on nearly every screen?
              IMO-All players are different & unique and stats are a consistently applied measure of their college performance. The most difficult evaluations IMO are players from smaller schools with lesser competition and there are always concerns about injuries or lack of consistensy among the major schools players that make for difficult evaluations. My 2 cents.

              I have to respectfully disagree that Rashaad Penny is lacking in balance/vision & only gets his yards due to his OL. Penny has 55 runs of 20+ yards thus season, how does that happen? Are the OL that far down field blocking for him? I have a slight concern about him being from a smaller school (and that may be why he ends up as a RD-4/5 pick which is right in the Hawks wheelhouse.) Personally, I’m intrigued by all the #1’s below.

              RB-Rashaad Penny – statistically: the #1 draft-able RB in terms of long rushing plays.
              #1 in FBS in total yards with 2,027-yards,
              #1 in FBS in yards per game with 168.92
              #1 of draft-able RB’s (after 2 underclassmen), with his 19-rush TD’s.
              #1 of draft-able RB’s in scoring per game with 24-total TD’s (behind only 1 underclassman)
              #1 in FBS in all purpose yardage with a 224.8/yds/game, (next is 179.5 for Sequon Barkley.)
              #1 draft-able RB in points scored/game with 12.0/game & 144/season,
              #1 draft-able RB in terms of long rushing plays. –See below.
              —-In his 275 rushes this season, Penny has rushing gains of:
              54 @ 10+yds, 26 @ 20+yds, 10@40+yds, 8@50+yds, 6@60+yds, 2@70+yds, 2@80+yds & 1@90+yds.

              (see: http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/leader/national/player/split01/category31/sort01.html)

              • Kenny Sloth says:

                When you’re consistently getting a crease and can get 2 yards every run, your average iant going to come down like someone who has to break two tackles to get back to the line.

                I call it the Barry Sanders effect, one of the most translatable skills is the ability to break tackles in the backfield and Penny has very little upside or potential in this regard from wht I’ve seen.

    • peter says:

      RE: “third best back.”

      Is it Barkley, then Chubb/Harris for the 2-3 spot? and if not who is the two? I know Rob is high on him a bit but Kerryone Johnson? Where’s he rank on that list.

      So full disclosure I missed all of the games except highlights of Rawls’ one good season. And I loved the highlights. But from what I’ve seen of Harris to what I’ve seen in the last two seasons of Rawls they don’t look anything alike. Now I get it’s post-Rawls injury and you see some slashing, barrelling run plays, but harris seems to stay upright and more in control of his footwork then Rawls sometimes appears. I mean to say that sometimes you know Rawls isn’t going to break a big run because you can feel it that he’s going to tumble forward right before or at the initiation of contact.

      Is Guise your number 2?

      I’ve got a strange feeling, could totally be wrong, that Chubb is going to be a draft idler getting picked in the third and be a very, very good pickup for a some team next year as he is still working his way back from injury. Just a hunch.

      • Kenny Sloth says:

        1. Barkley
        2. Guice
        3. Chubb
        4. Harris
        5. Love??
        6. Kerryon Johnson, Royce Freeman, Sony Michel
        7.
        8.
        9. Penny or Scarborough

        I say Harris and Rawls are similar types of players. You’re comparing individual traits. “Well hang on now, this one has dreads”. Every athlete ia unique, I’m just talking about what role theyll fill

        I see Harris as a bigger version of what Rawls has brought. Carroll has said in the past that his ideal rb is Rawls in a 230 lb frame. Harris seeks out that contact and projects as a slashing north/south runner. Would he adapt to a zone scheme without these power elements he’s used to? Not sure.

        For my money Nick Chubb is the best fit for us. Plus his road has to have built some character

        • peter says:

          Makes sense in regards to what role they would fill not traits. Again I can only compare physical traits like for like since I sort of missed the boat with rawls’ once great season and Pete’s interviews about him, RB’s in general.

  5. Ground_Hawk says:

    Great point about SPARQ not being the be-all and end-all, Rob. It is a fun metric to use though, so long as you treat it as one piece of larger puzzle. Speaking of SPARQ, Seattle added SPARQ-freak Jason Thompson to the PS earlier in the week, and it’s going to be interesting to see how he performs. Thompson is also another example of Seattle seeing some value in a player who has experience playing multiple positions; in Thompson’s case: QB, Safety, and some LB. PC/JC love those Swiss Army knife-types, and I think that if nothing else it is trait that indicates the player is willing to make sacrifices, and do what is best, for the team.

  6. Dale says:

    I love watching Gaskin run because of his patience, intelligence, and feel for the position. I also know that he’s not the prototypical size for a NFL running back. If you were to name a ‘Miles Gaskin with size’ running back who would that be?

  7. House says:

    Rob,

    Great writeup as always. I personally like the upside of Harris and feel that while Guice is indeed productive, he’s already got tons of mileage on him. I pulled these stats up and its crazy:

    Guice 2017: 216 carries, 1153 yds (5.3ypc) 11TDs
    Harris 2017: 110 carries, 906 yds (8.2ypc) 11TDs

    Harris has carried almost half the carries Guice did for 247 yds less… Over their 3 year careers the carry count is Guice (450/2976) to Harris (3012103).

    I’m leaning Harris all day everyday…

    In something non-RB related, I saw this video on DeShawn Shead and his recovery. I’m only 33 years old and it amazes me hoe much medicine/technology has changed in the past 10-12 years. I remember when an ACL tear was a career killer… Not so much anymore!
    https://twitter.com/Seahawks/status/941504339000025088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fseattle-seahawks

    • Pickering says:

      Thanks, House. Analytics, medical science and high tech are making this NFL way different. Still, I’m waiting for them to come up with better ways to protect the head. And knees, and achilles tendons.

    • Kenny Sloth says:

      F THOSE STATS.

      Look how explosive Guice is. Just watch him collide violently into everything around him, might as well call him ‘Taz’

      Harris is nice, and they both kind of overshadowed bigger names in college, but I just rate Guice’s athletic traits higher.

      Harris is probably the more pro ready player, but I think Guice has greater upside.

      Harris is gonna have a day one impact wherever he goes, whenever he goes (I could see 25th and 50th right now), but Guice is gonna thrive in a competition and has so much room to grow.

      • Rob Staton says:

        I disagree quite strongly here Kenny. To me, at least watching both play, the testing results of both Guice and Harris show up on tape. Guice is a really tough, physical runner. But I don’t think he’s particularly explosive or athletic.

        • D-OZ says:

          As do. To me Harris is the second best back in this draft, especially for what the Hawks need. You can bet other team’s picking ahead of us will see what a grinder and defender he is coming out.

          • Kenny Sloth says:

            He’s not lightning quick, but he gets up to top speed quickly and hits the hole with authority.

            Maybe he’s not the athlete you assume on first viewing just because he plays full speed and looks like a nightmare for defenses.

        • Kenny Sloth says:

          Those numbers really are poor for the sparq combine, do you see that repeating at the combine?

          Its no secret Seattle targets sparq gods for RB.

          • Rob Staton says:

            It’s possible he will improve his workout but personally I think he is a player that is extremely tough and physical with some excellent qualities, just not a particularly good athlete comparatively speaking.

            • Kenny Sloth says:

              Fair enough. Not to discount Harris’ physicality and obvious athleticism, but I dont think our current numbers accurately represent their athletic disparity, if any.

      • C-Dog says:

        I gotta be honest, I don’t see the explosion that much with Guice, either. I wouldn’t write him off in any way, but I think I’d be more excited about Chubb that Guice, if we’re going off the big name backs.

      • House says:

        Stats are very telling and when I watch Guice, he reminds me a lot of Trent Richardson. The LB and RB positions have a higher rate of player breakdown because of the mileage on them. I do hope I am wrong, but I don’t see this guy having a long successful career due to the mileage on his body. The other thing that scares me about Guice is this lingering ankle injury. I get guys play through injury and need to show toughness, but he’s had issues with his ankle since his Sophomore year in HS. It’s just something I cannot overlook.

        I personally believe Guice runs with better leverage and he’s difficult to tackle. Harris seems more deliberate in his running actions and to me, has better vision. To see that Guice had 149 more carries over the same 3 year period for 873 yds, he literally has more mileage on him…

  8. Greg Haugsven says:

    Was looking at some playoff scenarios if we do make it. If we beat the Rams and make it as the 4 seed there is a very likely chance the Rams could end up being the 5 seed which would mean we would play them a third time.

  9. 12th chuck says:

    As much as I fall for every highlight video of prospects of what the Seahawks need, I really think we will look for another leo .we haven’t had one since Chris Clemens left. Bruce Irving was more of a hybrid player. Some of our backs that we have on the roster now, I think will be here next year and wont cost a draft pick.2 of them look like they could play every down as well.I hope Carson makes it back to, at the very least help to decide whether or not he could be that guy or not. Any thoughts?

    • peter says:

      I think LEO or any kind of Edge Rusher regardless of how they are defined could be a target. With Avril possibly(probably) retiring I’m not sure what they do in that regard. However they seem to be content looking to Free agency with Clemons, Avril, to a different degree Dion Jordan to fill those roles. Even Bennett.

      Maybe there’s a DE or OLB that they can find for a great price? I just looked at the Sportrac list of FA’s this year and it doesn’t look great but maybe there’s someone I’m not catching.

    • Ukhawk says:

      I think Arden Key remains a real possibility for our Hawks in the 1st

      • Trevor says:

        If he is on the board I would run to the podium if I was JS. Elite pass rushers are as rare as OTs. Key has that type potential.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I don’t think Key is as good as suggested here Trevor. Undoubtedly he has some pass rush talent but look at all the baggage. The off-season mystery about whether he was even going to play in 2017, the sudden weight gain and sluggish play. He’s had a knee issue during the season and he had off-season shoulder surgery. In his eight games he only had 5.5 TFL’s and four sacks. I’d be extremely wary of taking him early and the Seahawks will hopefully learn from the Malik McDowell mess.

          Given the choice of taking Arden Key with the only early pick Seattle has or investing a degree of faith in Dion Jordan — I’d roll with Jordan.

          • Trevor says:

            Perhaps Rob but I don’t think the comp to McDowell is even remotely fair. McDowell basically quit on his team and his play and effort on the field was awful.

            From what I have read in scouting report Key is a hard worker who loves football. Even going on his own time to work with pass rush specialist Chuck Smith.

            I just think if the Hawks make a pick in Rd # 1 it should be either for a unique athlete like Sutton, a premiere talent at his position like Price or at a Premium position like pass rusher with Key.

            Everyone seems to think the Hawks will go RB because he run game had struggled. I would argue it struggled early because of the OL and now a little because of injury. David had been pretty good I think and I would love to see Carson behind this OL.

            I really hope the Hawks don’t go RB in Ed # 1 unless it is for an RB who will be a true #1 lead RB like Barkley, Elliott, Gurley.

            Harris, Guides etc are all nice backs but are rotation or RB by committee guys. Harris is that in CFB. I just don’t see the Value in drafting an RB in Rd #1 who is going to have to share the load. They can be had in the mid rounds.

  10. Robert says:

    I hope they find someone bigger. And someone with durability!

  11. Hawk Eye says:

    I would be curious to see the SPARQ and combine results of Kareem Hunt, Kamara, Leveon Bell, and other recent mid round picks that have been successful. Sometimes, a lack of extra athleticism will make a dominant college player just average in the pros, but other times there are guys who do not appear to have elite athleticism (Michael Bennett) who become elite pros because they have the ability to use what they have better than others. They just have football instincts that go beyond athletic measurables.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Kamara in fairness had an outstanding combine. Was extremely explosive and would’ve had a very good SPARQ score.

      I’m not sure Hunt is quite as good as advertised. Fast start but tailed off quickly. Kansas City has been successful under Andy Reid in plugging RB’s into their offense and getting results. It’s not a coincidence IMO that when they were doing well and winning games Hunt excelled but as soon as the form turned, the product of a functioning offense lost his stats.

      Le’veon Bell had a reasonable combine. 31.5 inch vertical, 4.24 short shuttle. Not bad results for a 230lbs running back, especially compared to Guice at his size. The thing with Bell though is he has unique patience in the backfield. He has the size of a big back but the incredible shiftiness, patience, visions and decisiveness of a smaller back. I’ve only seen one player with a similar ability like this and it’s Kerryon Johnson and he’s probably 20lbs lighter than Bell.

      • Fairlawn says:

        Bell had bananas agility metrics for a big feature back — 6.75 three-cone to go with the 4.24 shuttle. (McCaffrey last year had 6.57 and 4.22 at 202 pounds.)

      • Sea Mode says:

        Kamara had the top SPARQ score of RBs last year with 131.4.

        3rd place was Carson with 128.9.

        2nd place? Look who just kept GB’s playoff hopes alive last week: Aaron Jones with 129.7.

        Carson is basically 2 inches taller and a Kamara clone athletically:

        Kamara: 5096, 214, 32.75 arm, 9 1/4 hand, 4.56 40yd, 4.35 SS, 7.1 3C, 39.5 vert, 10’11” broad, 15 bench
        Carson: 6000, 218, 33.25 arm, 9 5/8 hand, 4.58 40yd, 4.29 SS, 7.5 3C, 39.0 vert, 10’10” broad, 23 bench

        If anything, this just strengthens the argument to factor in SPARQ scores in RB evaluation, especially when you are looking at guys in the mid rounds.

        • Hawk Eye says:

          i went and looked a few of those guys combine results. Apparently there is this “google” thing where you can discover just about anything! Who knew?
          Read the scouting report for Bell and it said he did not have good vision as a runner and had poor hands, and would be comparable to Blount as a RB. So much for the scouts…..

        • Nick says:

          Wow, great find Sea Mode. It seems so obvious to me that Seattle is DEFINITELY going to trade out of the first. So finding an RB either in the 2-3 round range seems like the earliest we should be scouting for.

  12. C-Dog says:

    If Seattle is looking at taking RB early with their first pick, one thing they may be weighing heavily is durability along with explosive traits, toughness, vision, balance, grit, character, etc. With this Spinal Tap drummer year, I don’t know if under the first time in the PC/JS era, where they would actually take RB in R1, they would pull the trigger on a back that has shown knee problems, or possibly shoulder concerns.

    This is the one thing that makes me pump the breaks ever so slightly about Kerryon Johnson, despite those highly attractive traits, Chubb, and to a degree Guice. Maybe this is just me being a bit shell shocked about what has gone about with the position this year, though.

    That said, there has been some word lately that some scouts have been more high on Sony Michel than Chubb because of his passing game qualities.

    Rob, any chance we can see one of your wonderful write ups on Michel in the future?

    I’ve enjoyed what I’ve seen from him this year.

  13. C-Dog says:

    Perfect World Scenario for Pivotal Blue Friday.

    Seattle is able to manage hanging onto Bradley McDougald, Paul Richardson, Jimmy Graham and Luke Joekel.

    McDougald $5 Mill, 3 years, $15 Mill
    PRich, $6.5 mill, 4 years, $26 Mill
    Graham, $7.5 mill, 4 years, $30 Mill, but loaded in a way that is essentially a 2 or 3 year deal
    Joekel, $7 mill, 3 years, $21 mill.

    Should leave about $4 mill of cap room after cutting Lane, and Avril retiring, maybe they cut Thorpe, or Ryan to clear a bit more.

    Sheldon leaves, Seattle gets a R3 comp in 2019, adds a bargain veteran DT cut off another roster, so as they don’t loose that comp.

    Draft. Seattle finds a trade partner with the QB hungry Vikings and land a R3 pick.

    30: R1P30
    RB DAMIEN HARRIS
    ALABAMA

    Seattle gets explosive runner from power program that has every down back potential.

    94: R3P30
    EDGE DUKE EJIOFOR
    WAKE FORREST

    Seattle gets edge rusher to replace Avril with a knack for rushing from LDE

    122: R4P20
    TE DALLAS GOEDERT
    SOUTH DAKOTA STATE

    Seattle gets athletic small school TE to replace Willson

    144: R5P5
    LB AZEEM VICTOR
    WASHINGTON

    Seattle gets talented Husky LB who’s 2018 fall from grace had him sliding.

    151: R5P12
    DL KENDRICK NORTON
    MIAMI

    Seattle gets a physical, early down, run stopper that fits their traditional DT mold.

    168: R5P29
    CB IMAN MARSHALL
    USC

    Seattle gets mid round CB to groom

    229: R7P10
    WR D.J. CHARK
    LSU

    Seattle gets lanky WR in the Kenny Lawler mold

    249: R7P30
    OT COLE MADISON
    WASHINGTON STATE

    Seattle gets local product Cougar OL to add depth

    250: R7P31
    RB L.J. SCOTT
    MICHIGAN STATE

    Seattle lands another physical RB with upside, but also baggage.

    In keeping with the idea this is RW’s team, Seattle invests with veteran players on the offense, uses the first pick for the biggest offensive need, and then uses it’s Day 2 pick to fill the void left by the Avril retirement. Further, it continues a youth movement on the defensive side with players that could either end up starters, or valuable contributors.

    Thoughts?

    Happy Star Wars Day.

    • H says:

      Love the whole scenario here. Only hang ups; I’d be gutted to lose Sheldon, but would understand if its necessary, and would feel a lot better about it keeping the other 4, and would that 4-7m left be enough to fill the roster? Would that cost us cheaper but potentially important guys like Dion Jordan, Marcus Smith, and Justin Coleman?
      Loved the mock though, as per. Keep it up

      • C-Dog says:

        Personally, I would be entirely happy if they chose to keep Sheldon. I just don’t see great tea leaves there, especially if they want hang onto a few more of these other guys, unless of course, he finds a cold market and is willing to come back for less.

    • Trevor says:

      Love rds 3-5

      • Greg Haugsven says:

        Losing Sheldon and Avril would be tough. Still dont know about McDowell. Naz Jones play would make the Sheldon loss easier.

        • C-Dog says:

          Agree. I think if they end up not signing Sheldon, it will probably have more to do with how they feel about Naz than they do about Malik. Malik McDowell looks to be a major question mark, and hasn’t shown a lot to give faith in.

  14. Michigan 12th says:

    As a Ducks fan I love me some Freeman, but I don’t know about his potential in the NFL. To me he has always been a bit frustrating, he pulls off some great runs, but when you need him to get those tough yards he never does. I don’t see a RB like that being beneficial to the Seahawks, I think we need someone who can constantly gain the 4 yards and occasionally pull off the big run. That’s what was so great about Lynch. Give Russel third and short he is very hard to stop.

    I don’t look for too many cuts next year, as trades are way more beneficial even if they only net late round picks. The problem is all of our guys got hurt at the worst time for pulling off trades. Lane hasn’t shown enough to garner interest from other teams. So I think we roll with most of our original core of the last few years. By that I mean not a lot happens this off season in terms of shakeup. I don’t know what will happen with Graham and Sheldon, but hopefully we can resign one of them. For me McDougald is a priority sign, he has kept the secondary together as good as can be expected.

    Also there is no way we draft in the first round so I guess Rob will have to do a mock with a trade in it for us. I say make the O-line so good that anyone could run behind it. Carson, Davis, and McKissic are talented enough with a better O-line. We need to find our next Hutchinson, he has to be out there somewhere.

  15. Trevor says:

    Miami RB Walton is a guy I have not seen discussed much here on the blog. I thought he looked good prior to his injury and might be a solid mid round option at RB. Will be anxious to see his combine workout and and #s.

  16. Trevor says:

    I think LB is a significant need for the Hawks. Depending on trades and available picks would love to see the pick up Lorenzo Carter from Georgia and Azeem Victor. I think both guys have the potential to be real impact guys in a year or two.

    • Greg Haugsven says:

      it will be interesting on what they want to do with KJ Wright. Is he an extension guy or replace him with say a Deion Jones type. Personally Im for the latter. I love me some KJ but you have to get younger at some point.

      • Aaron says:

        I’ve thought that KJ is a possible guy to retire soon. Could see Kam, Avril, and Bennett retire in the offseason, and possibly KJ this offseason or next. Need to keep infusing young talent into the defense. Focus on offense early unless a stud defensive player falls, then build up the defense later in the draft.

      • H says:

        Shaquem! Great athlete with so much fight in the man. I really think his story will appeal to Seattle a lot too
        Here he is forcing a fumble with his amputated arm
        https://youtu.be/H6jFL3W1Z7E?t=28s

        • bankhawk says:

          I hadnt watched *the other brother* before that clip-nice post thêre! I could really see adding such a warrior of unbending intent to the roster. And with an awesome backstory like the one the twins bring-cant you just picture how the Clink would erupt in ape-shit fashion every time he flashed that play-making ability!

  17. Sea Mode says:

    Saw some Lavon Coleman highlights up.

    Lavon Coleman Ultimate Washington Highlights ᴴᴰ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Yr6ErkzE0

    Also interesting he ran 4.18 short shuttle at the 2016 Husky Combine. That would be the fastest time for all RBs last year, and that was before him trimming down this offseason. Will be waiting to see how he does at the Combine.

    He himself said he is not 235 lbs. He was 223 with 4% body fat (and looks it) to start this season.
    http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/college/pac-12/university-of-washington/article166856832.html

    • Icb12 says:

      Will someone please teach that kid how to employ a stiff arm!!

      He looks good this year trimmed down.
      Like you I’m interested in his combine. He’s right in the prototypical Seahawks RB size

  18. D-OZ says:

    I like Coleman better than Freeman….

  19. Greg Haugsven says:

    Anyone ever left a negative comment on Fieldgulls? Man these guys are sensitive. What a bunch of bitches.

  20. Greg Haugsven says:

    It will be interesting what the defensive line could look like next year. It could look like this:

    Bennett, Clark, Avril, Reed, Jones, McDowell, Richardson

    It could also look like this:

    Clark, Jones, Reed

    Avril could retire/cut
    Bennett could possibly retire as well but most likely not
    Richardson could not resign
    McDowell could never play

    We should no more by the draft. Defensive line could be a higher priority than we think. The best lineman generally go early, doesn’t mean you can’t find d a gem later. They may even go defensive line even if you keep a bunch check of these guys knowing he might not get many snaps.

    • RealRhino2 says:

      Main reason I think we may be looking at DL with our first pick this year, even if RB is also a major need. Just too many question marks. Avril, McDowell, etc. Also why I think Richardson should be top priority if they see the consistency and effort they need to see.

    • C-Dog says:

      I think Bennett probably sticks it at least out another year. Malik McDowell is a major question mark, but they will probably continue to have Q Jeff, Branden Jackson, and Dion Jordan around. I think Jackson has been a little bit underrated, IMO. I would expect this to be an area they continue to look to add.

      • Greg Haugsven says:

        Id really like to see some more out of Jordan. He started good then the neck injury. He is an RFA next year and if he shows promise that changes things. Really hope he shows well with the snaps he plays.

  21. Greg Haugsven says:

    Just a little draft tidbit:
    Of John Shcneiders 8 drafts he hasn’t had a draft yet where one of his first two picks wasn’t some kind of lineman.

    Whether it’s a need or not it’s safe to say ( assuming they trade back) that one of those first two picks will be some kind of lineman (defensive or offensive).

    • Kenny Sloth says:

      When 9 of 22 players on the field are lineman, it can be a pretty staunch requisite to reload talent

    • Rob Staton says:

      You could argue the second round pick has already gone on a lineman (Sheldon Richardson).

      • Greg Haugsven says:

        I understand your points. Im just saying if we do trade back into the second and grab a third Id be willing to bet that one of those two picks would be some kind of lineman.

    • East Side Stevie says:

      Looks like cutting Kam/Lane after June 1st saves you 6M. I dont want Kam to be cut, but I do think its possible he retires. Lane, I have no problem with them choosing to cut.

      • Greg Haugsven says:

        Avril savings is $7.5 and Kam still has an injury guarantee. So if you cut Kam his cap hit goes from $9.8 million to $19.5 million. Dont see Kam being cut.

  22. Greg Haugsven says:

    What do you guys think of Dorance Armstrong? He could probably be available early second if we trade back. He could fill the Bruce Irvin role next year then maybe slide to KJ’s spot if they dont resign him. 6’4 240, very fast.

    • Volume12 says:

      Will probably be a much better NFL player than college player, has some not quite elite but very good traits. Thing is, he never put it all together. His tape is ‘meh.’

      Other than Bradley Chubb, Harold Landry, and the Clemson boys, not impressed with the DEs in this class.

  23. Volume12 says:

    We’re almost at the point of the season were guys will get turned off by a prospect because of a few workouts (not talking combine) instead of what a full season or season’s worth of tape tell/show us.

    Also almost at the point were every good workout or combine performance vaults a guy into day 1 consideration. Consideration is the key word.

    Basically? It’s the season of over reaction.

  24. Volume12 says:

    Who’s ready for some XFL again!? lol

  25. Volume12 says:

    Packers are gonna run the table with Rodgers back aren’t they?

  26. FuzzyLOgic says:

    After watching a bunch of tape on RB’s the last few weeks I’m pretty settled on D. Harris if we go that route in the first round but personally I think he should be gone by the 20th pick. I’m actually ok with Carson and crew for next year with our O-line improving so for me I’m hoping for a big target WR or an Edge player.

    BTW…How sour is the Rams community against the Seahawks? I mean come on.

  27. Sea Mode says:

    Hey, Kenny, you see that winner by Pulisic today?

  28. Volume12 says:

    Love how some of Seahawks twitter is just now discovering Maryland WR DJ Moore. That’s a Seahawk type receiver man.

  29. Volume12 says:

    OL Mark Glowinski cut. Wished they had taken his teammate Quinton Spain instead. Oh well.

    • C-Dog says:

      Wow, that’s quite the fall from grace being a 16 game starter last year. Makes sense to bring Palacio up. Wonder if Mike Tyson comes up as a corner or safety.

  30. Volume12 says:

    Oregon CB Arrion Springs has some ‘Seahawky’ traits.

  31. Sea Mode says:

    Check out what Daniel Jeremiah is saying yesterday just days after Rob posts the same thing:

    I recently studied Buckeyes senior Billy Price and he’s one of the best center prospects I’ve seen in the past decade. He has tremendous upper body torque, quick feet and outstanding awareness. Elflein has enjoyed an outstanding rookie campaign with the Vikings, and I think Price is a superior player on college tape. I gave Price the same grade I gave Mangold when he entered the league, and Mangold ended up being a first-round selection.

    Notre Dame’s Quenton Nelson is clearly the top interior lineman in the country this fall, but I’d put Price right behind him. Both guys are built to have immediate and lasting success at the next level. — Daniel Jeremiah

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000893205/article/browns-could-be-juggernaut-5-bowls-that-will-shape-nfl-draft

    He also has his notes on the RB class.

  32. Volume12 says:

    Boise St LB Leighton Vander Esch (6’4, 242) is a beast!

  33. Greg Haugsven says:

    For arguments sake let’s say we don’t make the playoffs and end up drafting somewhere between 18-20. Is there a player you draft there if he is available or do you trade back no matter what? If so who is your player?