And so it begins…

January 16th, 2022 | Written by Rob Staton

Today, Ian Rapoport is reporting that Russell Wilson, “wants to explore his options to see what else might be out there for him.”

We’re a fortnight removed from Adam Schefter reporting, “There is a leaguewide feeling, according to sources, that Carroll and Wilson will not be together again next season.”

If the intention really is to ‘run it back’ — the chances are we’re about to embark on another off-season of drama, negotiation played out through the media and we could realistically see the quarterback traded.

How does this benefit the franchise? We can’t have annual drama of the quarterback thinking about wanting out and the front office saying ‘no’. It isn’t conducive to success. Eventually, a decision needs to be made.

How are the Seahawks going to be serious players in free agency — either to retain their own or add new players — if there’s a cloud over Wilson’s future? Especially in a competitive market for the top names?

The fans also deserve better than weeks and months of uncertainty about the quarterback, as they argue, bicker and war on social media about the whole situation.

Per Rapoport:

“Wilson has not demanded a trade, and it’s not clear if he will. But at the least, those close to Wilson say he wants to investigate other destinations to see if those would put him in a better position to win another championship and create the legacy he sees for himself.”

I think, at this stage, Wilson should just get it over and done with. Request a trade. There’s no face-saving exercise to be had by flirting with it constantly. The Seahawks can’t be in limbo every off-season. You either want a move or you don’t.

This can’t keep going on, year after year.

It impacts fans’ enjoyment of the team. It’s a talking point that never goes away.

Mike Garafolo chimed in:

“Wilson was adamant that last offseason he didn’t request a trade from the Seahawks, just merely provided a list of teams he preferred. Have to figure it’ll be less passive and more aggressive this time around if his ideal conditions for staying in Seattle aren’t met.”

A few months ago, Wilson’s injury provided a distraction for the distraction — if that makes sense.

After just four games, Wilson’s future was being discussed as a Fox lead-in to Thursday Night Football. He injured his finger in that very game and that dominated the headlines instead.

Personally, I don’t think it’s reasonable to have this hanging over the team for two years and there not be consequences. Either in the locker room, in terms of your team-building or ultimately your performance on the field.

It needs addressing.

I said a year ago that the only serious way to put this all to bed and have Wilson remain is a new contract. I stand by that. Trade him or extend him. That’s the only way to draw a line under it.

Another off-season of Pete Carroll and John Schneider pretending it doesn’t exist, while every media outlet reports on it constantly, shouldn’t be an option.

Last week Rapoport spoke of Mark Davis’ interest in Wilson a year ago. Apparently Davis has a vision for the Raiders that is pure ‘rockstar’ — he wants a rockstar coach and a rockstar franchise figurehead.

Yesterday he reiterated that Derek Carr’s future in Las Vegas is uncertain.

Let’s not forget that a year ago, Wilson listed the Raiders as a destination he would be willing to be dealt to.

If they land an impressive offensive-minded Head Coach, it could set the table for a trade.

The Raiders don’t have a lot of draft stock to offer. They don’t have any extra picks. Their selection in round one will be between #20-23 overall. They do have a quarterback though. And if the Seahawks really want to try and maintain a somewhat competitive presence, they might feel granting Wilson his wish and acquiring Carr is a way to do that.

For me it would be a thoroughly underwhelming move. You wouldn’t be adding significant draft stock and Carr is unexciting as a potential starter. I doubt the Seahawks would be on a pathway to glory.

His contract expires after the 2022 season. So you’d be paying him a reasonable $19.7m this year and then, if he performs well, you’re looking at the need to pay him significantly more.

A lot of people like Carr and would likely welcome such a situation. I just feel he’s average. I think the playoffs are already showing that you need better than average at quarterback to succeed.

Plus, for all the complaining about Wilson, look at his stats compared to Carr’s. In a season where Wilson endured injury and horrendous spells of form (his worst ever season?) — he finished with a touchdown/interception ratio of 27/6 and a QBR of 53.9. In comparison, Carr finished with a 23/14 ratio and a 52.8 QBR.

Carr has only thrown for +30 touchdowns in a season once — seven years ago. Wilson has done it five times and would’ve done it again this year if he didn’t miss three and a half games.

Wilson’s career quarterback rating is 101.8. Carr’s is 92.4.

It’s pretty clear to me this would be a significant downgrade.

Let’s go a step further. Even Carson Wentz had a superior TD/INT ratio (28/7), QBR (54.4) and quarterback rating (90.1) in 2021. That’s the kind of quarterback you’d be acquiring. The type that is well known and viewed as competent — but isn’t a difference maker.

It would be a tough pill to swallow, swapping Wilson for Carr. I fear if Wilson agitates to leave, however, the front office that dealt for Charlie Whitehurst, made Tarvaris Jackson a starter and then paid Matt Flynn generous money, might convince themselves Carr is a great option that enables them to contend in 2022.

A final point. It’s pretty remarkable that after everything that has happened — many Seahawks fans are still in total denial that this is a story with Wilson. Many of the replies to Rapoport’s article were insisting Wilson had already committed his future to Seattle — which is complete bunkum.

The denial of reality on this story has to be seen to be believed. I’m not sure I’ve come across anything like it before.

It alone is reason enough for a resolution to this as soon as physically possible, regardless of the outcome.

Let’s get one thing straight — this isn’t some zany media creation. Wilson’s dissatisfaction is real and has been for some time. It’s not a question in the slightest of whether he’s open to a trade. The only question is how this gets sorted out over the coming months.

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353 Responses to “And so it begins…”

  1. Sean Z says:

    This is exhausting Rob

    • Rob Staton says:

      It really, really is.

      It’s sapping my enthusiasm and enjoyment of the team. I imagine many feel the same, whatever your stance is on Carroll, Wilson or Schneider.

      Surely they all have to see this??

      • Sean Z says:

        My opinion only, of course, but I think these folks have spent a long, long, long time always thinking they were a step ahead, always the smartest people in the room. The league caught up years ago but they are still doing the same things, and it has spilled over into (seemingly) going exactly as you have described here many times: if nothing changes, Russ will look to move on. I wonder if they have been drinking their own kool-aid for so long, they no longer see unforced errors in the same light. Trading Russ for Carr would put a heaping, stinking dollop of tarnish on the legacy of all the amazing things they have accomplished in Seattle.

      • Mok says:

        You and your ego are wrong once again. Take your fair weather BS back to the UK.

        • Rob Staton says:

          Look everyone — the village idiot has been allowed to have the wifi password today

        • Mel says:

          Why are you here if you don’t want to hear what Rob has to say? He’s been an extremely talented writer and evaluator of talent associated with this team for the better part of a decade. This is a site for discussion, both critical and positive. I appreciate that Rob has an opinion and doesn’t waver in it unless proven wrong. Far too many out there change their opinions on a whim. The fact Rob continues to stay the course shows how deeply convicted he is in thought. Nobody wants to write about misery for a living, but this is where we currently are with the Seahawks. For better or for worse

    • RugbyLock says:

      Totally correct… Two years ago I canceled my Sunday Ticket and now I watch most of the games on Game Pass after the fact. This year I missed a couple of games and wasn’t nearly as upset as I would’ve been in years past. I think a LOT of that had to do with all the drama last off-season about Russ. If I have to go through ANOTHER off-season like that then I may get to the point of not watching the whole game and just watch the condensed version, if at all… This sucks… Going through the 90’s of Seahawks “Football” is not something I want to do at all…

  2. Mac says:

    Today, I had fun watching football. I wore a Joe Burrow jersey I won from my fantasy football league and watched a real fun team play. This saga with the Seahawks leaves me apathetic for the team. If change isn’t made, I’ll be reading your blog for prospects and watching the live streams but rooting for a football team that’s enjoyable to watch.

    I just want to watch a team that can move the football, make flashy splash plays and is fine burying their opponent. It reminds me of how when we usually play our first opponent in the playoffs we play 3 quarters of PeteBall, trying to play to grind out a 9 to 6 victory, only to have it blow up in our teams stupid face when their opponent is ahead by two touchdowns and a field goal early in the fourth. Then it becomes time to ask RW to save the day.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Right there with you, Mac

      • Sevenine says:

        I’ve been frustrated by Wilson’s media persona and his behind the scenes persona because they seem to be complete opposites. I was a huge supporter for Wilson and I understand his frustration but it’s time to make a decision, do you want out or are you a 100% committed to Seahawks. I don’t think anyone can realistically say he is 100% committed. I would rather try with a quarterback like Ridder than Carr and see what you can do having a rookie salary quarterback can get you in other positions with cap space. I mean if Pete is a run to setup the pass scheme it’s not like we will be expecting a rookie quarterback to throw 40 times a game.

        • Rob Staton says:

          In any other year I would agree.

          But which QB in this draft is doing what you need?

          You have to actually be good. You can’t just be cheap.

          Ridder’s accuracy is so hit and miss. The Alabama game was an eye opener for me. That was his shot to make a statement.

          The rest, I’ve run through on the blog. It’s the worst year to look to the draft.

          • Sevenine says:

            I completely understand but I would say is accuracy can get better with right coaching. To me Ridder can pass from the pocket and has speed to run if he needs too. What other options do you have because free agency is going to be horrendous as well plus a free agent quarterback would cost a lot for average to sub average play. I also wouldn’t put all judgement on one game against Alabama where Cincinnati was overmatched from the kickoff.

            • Rob Staton says:

              Accuracy is hard to fix though man

              There are things like unorthodox technique I can live with if the results are what they are

              But if you’re so inconsistent drive to drive with your accuracy that is really hard to fix

              • Sevenine says:

                If accuracy is inconsistent because of mechanics and footwork that can be coached to be better. If you just don’t have accuracy than that’s another thing and you’re right, that is hard to fix. I’m not a QB guru by any means but you would think if he is accurate and than isn’t, that it could be mechanics and not just talent. I think I’m just wanting to see a change from the same old Seahawks offense we’ve seen for a while now that I’m entertaining going with a rookie quarterback lol.

                • Rob Staton says:

                  Some mechanics aren’t fixable though. Sometimes a player has thrown a certain way his whole life and you’re asking him to change.

                  And in the case of Ridder — it’s not even mechanics per se. He’s just erratic in his decision making and ball placement.

                  • Sevenine says:

                    You’re probably right but I think I would rather go with Ridder than a quarterback who is in the free agent market. That of course is only if we are trading Wilson.

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    And that’s fine.

                    But I think the end result will be the same.

              • Rowdy says:

                I agree, accuracy can be worked on with some tweaks but not fixed at this point. We’re talking D1 qbs going pro not a freshman trying to win the starting job. If that much work needs to done on fundamentals at this stage of his career, it’s not likely to work out for him.

                • Sevenine says:

                  Josh Allen coming out of the draft was talked about how strong his arm was but that he had accuracy issues. Every year he has gotten more precise. So I disagree that quarterbacks going Pro that need fundamental coaching won’t amount to much. Russell was talked about from scouts and analyst as a solid backup quarterback with similarities to Seneca Wallace. He obviously proved them wrong.

                  • Sevenine says:

                    By no means am I saying Ridder is a for sure thing or the best decision, but out of the draft I think he has the best potential, that’s all.

    • Matt says:

      I said the same thing yesterday, Mac. Right there with you. This is such a boring, predictable team and it’s no fun to watch.

      I’m fine watching bad football if you can see progress being made or the seeds of something growing. Watching the Seahawks play is like watching a dead house plant slowly wither away knowing your wife spray paints it green every morning to maintain the illusion that despite your knowledge of knowing the plant is dying; it’s not dying…because look, it’s still green. And why would you dare seed a new plant?

      Dumb analogy but this franchise is just insulting. I’d rather they just come out snd say, “hey this is a profitable business and that’s all we want.”

    • DarrellDownUnder says:

      So true, too many times during the Pete era I have been out on game day with my Hawks jersey on and had to endure boring, keep it close, 3 and out football games. A few that stick out were a Cincinnati game a few years ago and the Dallas run run run punt game among many others. Especially in Vegas with all the different fans and they were as disgusted as I was to even have to watch that crap. Enough is enough, no?

  3. Edgar says:

    Is it just me….or does it feel more and more, Seahawk fans are like the city of Seattle. Worthless. If they lose Wilson, they might become the Jags with this pathetic outdated coaching staff.
    Love reading your content. It mirrors my thoughts

    • Peter says:

      A more accurate comparison is that the team and the city doesn’t have to care what people on the outside think.

      The team will make a third of a billion (320 million in tv rights fees) every year if ever seat is empty.

      And I’m guessing you don’t like Seattle for whatever reason but the population still increases by nearly a percent year over year regardless.

  4. Roy Batty says:

    And, still, all we hear is a field of crickets from ownership.

    • Sean-O says:

      “The fans also deserve better than weeks and months of uncertainty about the quarterback, as they argue, bicker and war on social media about the whole situation.”

      I agree it’s frustrating from the fans perspective to not hear anything from the team but I don’t see that changing. More crickets. As far as what the future holds, a couple of the teams playing in Super Wild Card week (Raiders, Eagles) could be options that get brought up. Both are fringe playoff teams that to take the next step would look to make a splash.

      Like Rob stated, Carr isn’t real exciting plus a FA after ’22. Hurts is kind of intriguing but he’s just so damn inconsistent.

      My money would be on the Saints. Russ’s camp will push for it. Wasn’t there an ESPN article listing some options awhile back? I believe the Hawks would get back two 1’s, a 3rd & a CB back in the scenario laid out by the article.

  5. Rob Staton says:

    Garofolo chimes in: https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1482718141784502272

    “Wilson was adamant that last offseason he didn’t request a trade from the Seahawks, just merely provided a list of teams he preferred. Have to figure it’ll be less passive and more aggressive this time around if his ideal conditions for staying in Seattle aren’t met.”

  6. Big Mike says:

    “How are the Seahawks going to be serious players in free agency — either to retain their own or add new players — if there’s a cloud over Wilson’s future? Especially in a competitive market for the top names?”

    Frankly Rob. I don’t think they’d be serious players anyway. For whatever reason, no top FAs ever come here. Hell they couldn’t retain Clowney for heaven’s sake. Some more of that famous Pete Carroll culture we always hear about from the Pete apologists. But what the F, we’ll just trade the farm and the house for Mr. Herpes to get a difference maker in. Never mind that he isn’t. The chances of the Chandler Jones’ of the world coming here are ever so slightly above 0%.

    As for Russ, as I posted yesterday if he wants to win another Super Bowl, it’s time for him to grow a pair and just flat out demand a trade and make it clear he will not play another down in Seattle regardless of the hit to his precious image. Will he? Guess that’s the $64,000 question isn’t it?

    Thank you Jody Allen. Because of your lack of knowledge and/or interest, we will continue to watch a once top level franchise slowly crumble to the ground. Sure gonna be fun watching Pete Carroll walk away and leave a franchise in shambles. The good news is that there are several local watering holes that have the Ticket and show all the games so when the Seahawks are locking out a good game here locally, I can go to one of those establishments and watch a game between 2 teams that matter, whomever they might be next season.

    Oh and by the way Pete, HAND THE DAMNED BALL TO MARSHAWN YOU STINKING MORON!!

    • Peter says:

      The free agent thing is what worries me. Even if they don’t cut and restructure Bobby which I don’t think they will do, there is still a chunk of cash to sign one maybe two upgrades.

      Chandler Jones? Doubt it. I like Ryan Jensen at center and hope they make a run at a left guard moving Lewis back to the right side.

      I can’t figure if it’s an egg or it’s a chicken but this FO either can’t figure out who to go after in FA…hyder, mayowa…..or no one of note will pick up the phone unless they are almost out of the league.

      • Rob Staton says:

        I wouldn’t expect any big OL move

        They’ve already talked up pass rush as the priority

        So probably this years version of Mayowa or Hyder

        • Peter says:

          Tbf we can’t get anyone decent without burning a draft pick anyways and there’s too many good safeties in this draft to be wasting picks 🙃.

          And you’re right. If they said they are prioritizing the pass rush then I’m sure they mean it. For real. No really real. No, not like all the times before, but you know, real.

          “Be the bully.” Check. Or in UK parlance, sorted.

          Be the baddest dudes getting off the bus. Obviously check.

          “Fix the pass rush.” If you say it enough times then like every middle aged woman’s favotite Oprah book club title “The Secret,”….just by speaking it you can will into into being. So that’s that fixed.

          “It’s not how you start but how you finish…or….you win games in the fourth quarter.” Also a big check. Two “big,” wins to end the season is actually more important than all the games the team lost and the fault is probably on me for not seeing it that way.

        • Hawkster says:

          Remember, based on what was paid, they think Adams is a god. So they may think their pass rush just needs to get healthy, that’s all. It pains to say that.

      • McZ says:

        They won’t sign any upgrades.

        Imagine you are a top pass rusher or center. JS calls you, and you are confronted with the dire prospect of playing in Seattle under the current regime. Far away from being a competitor, with a franchise QB who is unhappy, with major coaching problems, a broken scouting staff, a habit of trading draft stock.

        You look at your agent, and his face says ‘no, really’.

        We get the following players: the maxxed out, wanting a new lifetime contract.

        • bmseattle says:

          the first question an agent for a pass rusher should ask John/Pete is… “Will you actually *play* my client, and will you actually let them rush the passer?”

    • CD says:

      This is your best post Big Mike, ever!

    • SeattleLifer says:

      Another way Pete and John think they are smarter than everyone is is to aim to get a bunch of 1 to maybe 2 year deal free agents – prove it contracts. Pete gets guys who really need to produce, to comPETE. Many problems with this approach, first those type of guys aren’t ever the top tier talents which are more likely to be worth the bigger contracts, these guys also only show up when the getting is good(or at least the few of them that actually are worth acquiring(ie not the Mayowa types) so this only works when your winning and your team actually has talent so they can come and pad their stats to cash in on free agency(like why Clowney was never going to come back – to a team with no pash rush support), and if these types do have a great season with you then they want top top dollar in free agency so you either lose them outright or have to fork over a boatload$(and remember these were the guys who had to settle for a prove it deal so they never are the ones you’d want to give the truly big contracts to), and lastly pursuing so many of these one and dones does absolutely nothing for roster/positional continuity.

      They trade too much draft capitol and then give monster contracts for the few ‘top’ end guys they go out and acquire(Harvin, Graham, Adams etc). They all but run from the truly good free agents that would cost real money(albeit without needing to give up draft capitol), they abuse 1 to 2 year prove it contracts and then they give the castoffs/lesser journeymen (and/or guys with injury histories…) the decent to too/big of contracts with length. Oh and they all too often seem to drag their feet in free agency and get stuck with picking from the retread bin.

      Our free agent/significant trade dealings over the past half dozen or so years have been more of the same crap from Pete and John, underwhelming with the occasional blunder and along with poor drafting has lead to a pretty steep erosion of team talent for too long now.

  7. SeaTown says:

    A PC/ Derek Carr combo? Jesus how terrible would that be!!

  8. JLemere says:

    Well looking at the options for RW to go to these would probably be the top 3 for him…

    1. Pittsburgh – Great culture and defensive mind with Tomlin with arguably the best pass rusher in the league with Watt. The only question is about their OC. Could RW convince Tomlin to get someone that he likes?

    2. Denver – One of the more complete rosters in the league. The only problem is that Dan Quinn is the lead candidate right now for their HC position and we all know his resume by now.

    3. New Orleans- Get the offensive-minded coach that you want, but they are in salary cap hell, currently -63 million in cap space and so NO would need to let go some of their good players in order to make it work.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Any list should include NYG and LV for me.

      • JLemere says:

        I can’t see NYG because they are doing a complete rebuild and that requires 2 years. Does RW really want to wait that long? For LV, yes but they would need to sort their GM and HC spots first before even thinking about a RW trade.

        • Rob Staton says:

          Can we just nip this in the bud right now.

          Teams can go from bad to good very quickly. Very quickly.

          And players will go and play for team mates and situations they find very appealing.

          The Giants have weapons, a young franchise left tackle and some defensive pieces.

          It’s hardly going to be a major toil and struggle for them to bolster their O-line sufficiently to get into a position where, with a legit proven QB, they aren’t massively improved in 2022.

          • JLemere says:

            I understand your point, but looking at NYG’s recent history, they are a bad team that finds ways to stay bad. I just wouldn’t get my hopes up for NYG to make correct decisions.

            • Rob Staton says:

              And look at Buffalo’s recent history. Abject.

              Now they look like a SB team.

              Things change.

              • AlaskaHawk says:

                They change quickly because they have strong management and good coaches. Buffalo has a marvelous coaching staff and a good to great quarterback. But it still took Buffalo a few years to get past New England.

                • Rob Staton says:

                  Well the Giants might make a marvelous appointment then acquire a good to great quarterback.

                  Plenty of crappy owners stumble into success.

                  Look at the Bengals and Mike Brown. Or anything the Rams’ owner touches. The Buccs are run by the Glazer’s who are grade A muppets.

                • Big Mike says:

                  So in other words, there’s ZERO chance things change in Seattle. Got it

              • Canadian Hawk says:

                I also believe the Giants are clearly the team most in need.
                At this point, if you’re John Mara, what wouldn’t you do to bring Russell Wilson over?

                Russ loves the big stage, his brand (in part) is winning games under a spotlight and New York is desperate for a new hero.

                The only silver lining I can see is that f a trade happens, Schneider should ask for the moon, the stars and then the moon again.

                How many times have we seen teams dramatically overspend (looking at you Seahawks Jamal Adams trade) to get what they want.

                • Roy Batty says:

                  Wasn’t Mara on the competition committee pushing hard for the new taunting rule?

                  The man comes from an NFL ownership pedigree and would absolutely love to have a HoF QB with a squeaky clean image.

                  If Russ did leave, the Giants would surely give up a record amount for a cornerstone franchise QB.

                  Then it’s Minshew mania in Seattle, I guess.

                  This soap opera needs a resolution, not this cliff-hanger crap we’ve been left to digest.

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    We should’ve had three games of Minshew mania in Seattle already.

                    They should’ve acquired him to replace Geno Smith as backup long before Philly did

        • lil’stink says:

          Wilson’s ego would absolutely love to be in New York. And, as Rob points out below, teams go from bad to good all the time in short order.

          The Giants have made the most sense to me as a trade partner for Wilson for some time. LV, NO, Denver, Miami and Chicago are in tier 2

    • Peter says:

      I think Pittsburg’s problem is not the OC as much as a broken down statue who almost always has been inaccurate running the offense.

  9. Mr drucker in hooterville says:

    I moved from Seattle/WA because it had changed so much for the worse. But at least I could follow the Seahawks. Apparently I need to fully divorce myself and find a different team.

    • Cysco says:

      I’m right there with you brother. Haven’t lived in Seattle in years, but kept my fandom of the Seahawks. I live in Dallas. Might be time to start consider a change of allegiances.

      • MychestisBeastmode says:

        Cysco, random off topic question – do you know anything about East TX, specifically around Tyler and Pittsburg TX? I may be moving there this summer. If not, no worries!

        • Cysco says:

          I don’t know a lot about Tyler, but my wife loves it. Cool mid-sized college town. UT Tyler is a fantastic school. Very pretty and hilly in that area of the state. Lots of trees. My friend’s kid who goes there loves it. A lot of old oil money in that part of the state so you can find some cool houses and the cost of living is going to be much lower than here in Dallas or Austin.

          Good luck if you end up moving. Texas is a pretty great state. Weather is amazing. Politics are kinda meh, but there are a lot of liberal minded people here. I would never move back to Washington State.

      • Mr drucker in hooterville says:

        Idaho here. This is no man’s land for NFL. Some Denver, Seahawks, and 49ers. Not sure who to follow. I sorta like the Colts. Perhaps.

  10. SonGoku says:

    Well, what a coincidence that a few hours after the news that there won’t be major changes at the Seahawks another Wilson-trade rumor arrives. How ignorant do you have to be to think this is all fake??
    Kind of interesting to see how Carroll will react if RW is publicly considering to request a trade? Would he step down? Or would Jody Allen make a move and fire PC before Wilson leaves?

    • Big Mike says:

      Not coincidence of course.
      What makes anyone thing Carroll will react any differently than last offseason, that is to say he’ll not respond publicly whatsoever?

    • Hawks4life says:

      Personally I don’t think Allen gives a hoot and I don’t think in a million years Pete would step down to benefit Wilson’s needs/wants as far as staying in Seattle

      • Rscott412 says:

        Completely agree Pete won’t leave and Russ needs to say it’s me are him. What we will get is Russ saying he is out.
        Thanks Jody Allen for sticking with a washed up 70 plus year old head coach instead of a franchise quarterback. The Seahawks are broken and this drama is further breaking them. Wish they would just fire Pete and be done with it

  11. Mr drucker in hooterville says:

    Rob, are the “sources” Wilsons camp or the team’s? If RW’s as I suppose, is it possible that some changes could still be forthcoming re: PC/JS/OC/DC?

  12. Peter says:

    The strangest part of this blog is it got me into college ball. Now in hindsight we probably should have inferred that nothing was every going to be different.

    Whether it was the board, Jody Allen, the head of football operations, or a combinstion if you were looking to offload a business in earnest you wouldn’t tie yourself to 10 plus years (between two contracts) of additional debt.

    As a pro team generates money by doing nothing and the brain trust thinks having the same coach for 16 odd years is a good way to run things it sort of feels as if Seattle is going to turn into a Kansas State, old regime Penn State, or Utah. Just a team glad to put up a fight but generally recedes from relevance as a whole.

    Guess it’s time for me to find some tiger striped Zubaz on ebay and start practicing the “ickey shuffle.”

    • GaiusMarius says:

      I’m dubious of any report that says that all systems are go with Carroll, Schneider…and Wilson.

      Not saying that ownership hasn’t made a bad decision regarding Carroll and Schneider, but I would not lump Wilson into that.

    • McZ says:

      It’s good to have an AFC allegiance these days. Go Bolts!

  13. cha says:

    ‘and so it begins’ indeed.

    Pete Carroll will in no way view that Jody meeting as a review of his job so much as an endorsement of everything he has done. A mandate to ‘get better’ only adds gas to the fire. Pete will very likely now find a way to top the Jamal Adams trade by trading Russell Wilson for not as big a return as he could have gotten and using those assets in the most Pete Carroll way possible.

    The way he responded to Aaron Levine’s plea for a less-drama offseason – with a snarky chuckle and both a statement that they’ll pursue options aggressively, yet he thinks they have a championship team already and want everyone back shows he doesn’t have any interest in pursuing a clear vision.

    The fact that he didn’t talk about how he and Russ are ‘so connected’ or ‘are on the same page about the direction going forward’ speaks volumes. It betrays what he’s been selling all season.

    We thought he was insufferable this season. Just wait until he trades Russell Wilson and drafts an off the ball linebacker with the pick he gets back and then pays Bruce Irvin a small fortune to block the guy on the depth chart.

    • Rob Staton says:

      He’s becoming a man who talks in riddles half the time. The other half he’s akin to a snake-oil salesman.

      • cha says:

        And why wouldn’t you? Can’t fault a winning strategy. As long as Jody and the press don’t hold him accountable he is in the clear.

        It’s all left to Russ to do it.

        • MychestisBeastmode says:

          💯

        • Big Mike says:

          “It’s all left to Russ to do it”.

          Serious question for you and Rob and anyone else that would like to respond:
          Do you think Russ has the balls to do it?

          • Rob Staton says:

            Do you think Russ has the balls to do it?

            I don’t know.

            But I think he will be more inclined to do so this year.

          • Rscott412 says:

            Yes I think Russ has the balls to do it I think he sees the writing on the wall when it comes to Carroll

          • cha says:

            I think Russ doesn’t want to let go of a branch until he’s got ahold of another branch.

            From all indications it’s easy to say he doesn’t trust PC. We had ‘let Russ cook’ in 2020, the Athletic report about him getting laughed out of the room for suggesting an offensive plan vs Arizona, and the ‘4 teams I’d like to be traded to’ saga of 2021. Stack onto that the Schefter Russ camp leak, the ‘I hope this isn’t my last game in Seattle’ and now this report which is not-coincidentally immediately after the ‘I’m ok, you’re ok’ report about PC and JS.

            But to force a move of this magnitude he’s got to feel really good about where he’d go.

            My head with the information we have says Russ wants out plain and simple and the pairing is done in Seattle.

            But my gut says something about Russ’ nature tells me he’d put feelers out, gauge the situation and then have a ‘come to Jesus’ meeting with PC. This is a list of changes I want, or I’m out.

            In that scenario I believe Pete would agree, and then decide to ignore his feedback and we’re back to where we were in 2022.

            • Paul says:

              Agree. It’s not surprising that Wilson is ambivalent. DEN, NYG, CHI have a recent history of a revolving door for coaches. The Raiders’ recent draft history isn’t any more encouraging than Seattle’s. What New Orleans would have to do to acquire and extend Wilson should give him pause.

              The closer you get to the edge, the wider the gap to the other side looks.

              • Rob Staton says:

                People dwell on this too much.

                And they ignore how keen Wilson is for a fresh start.

                He can’t get that in Seattle if they won’t make changes.

      • Easy Answers Hard Choices says:

        Elmer Gantry

      • Gary says:

        Rob, this is what he’s always been – recent events have just made it more obvious.

    • bmseattle says:

      It really sucks that as fans who realize that keeping Russ is the best path forward for us, are left hoping the Russ pushes for a trade, just to force the issue for some sort of change.

      • lil’stink says:

        I know I’m in the minority but I feel the exact opposite. I’m not going to defend PCJS. Lord knows they have made their share of mistakes that have held us back. I wouldn’t be disappointed if they were fired, but I think finding a quality HC is a lot more difficult than people here seem to think. The lack of leadership from Jody Allen and the sucks at Vulcan are the ultimate problem.

        In the end I think moving on from Wilson is the best path. He’s like an aging slugger in baseball. He’s not hitting as many home runs, but the strikeouts are as high as ever.

        It was nice to see this season, for a little bit at least, some objective discussions about the quality of Wilson’s play. Yes, he’s good, and he will continue to have his moments. But how easy is it to design an offense that is good week to week when you have an undersized QB who can’t play from a tight pocket? A QB who has relied on his legs to be a big part of his game, when his legs are starting to age?

        I have just as little faith in Wilson’s ability to lead this team to the SB as I do in Jody Allen, or in Pete Carroll’s ability to build a roster (which is his biggest weakness right now IMO, not his coaching).

        • MychestisBeastmode says:

          This. This right here is the Seattle version of achieving Nirvana.
          No faith in anyone 😉

          Congrats on finding harmony in this cruel twisted Seahawks universe.

      • McZ says:

        I could live with Russ out. I cannot live with Pete in.

    • MychestisBeastmode says:

      I mostly agree. I got the feeling from the Levine interview that Pete knows the storm is coming.

      My nuanced take is his hubris has him confident he can steer the ship through it safely to the other side. My frustration stems from his either naivete or inability to see that HE is the one steering the ship toward the storm and not giving weight to the other obvious choice; to steer the ship around the storm avoiding it altogether. (The storm being to not ostracize your franchise QB with placations which will lead to Russ leaving and/or a lot more fruitless drama in the off-season).

      • MychestisBeastmode says:

        I’m feeling poetic this morning. I should probably quit while I’m behind 😅

  14. ElPasoHawk says:

    Rob, since it looks like we are in for another offseason of Russ trade talk what f dc o you think the Raiders would be willing to give? If Davis is so enamored with Russ could the hawks get Carr, Kolton Miller or Maxx Crosby, and still get a couple of first rounders? I’m luke warm on Carr but if you could get a good young LT/DE along with a couple of firsts I could get a little more excited.

    • MychestisBeastmode says:

      Not Rob.

      I hope the Hawks stick to 3 1sts as a starting point. RW is better than Stafford and whatever deal that may be struck ought to be more expensive than the Stafford/Goff deal, even if it includes Carr.

      Still, I could see the Hawks seriously considering Carr + 2 1sts and players if RW makes it clear he ain’t coming back. This scenario would be terrible value imo.

    • Rob Staton says:

      You’re not going to get those players.

      I think a realistic deal would be two firsts, maybe three, and Carr.

      • ElPasoHawk says:

        If you are only getting Carr and first rounders that will all be late then I would pass. They need to get young quality players and a decent QB if there aren’t any top ten draft picks coming there way.

        • Space Chief says:

          Keep in mind too Russ has a no trade clause. I would guess if he saw the best young lineman, or best defensive player going to the Hawks, he wouldn’t be thrilled by that.

  15. AlaskaHawk says:

    Rob, You wrote something today that I’ve been thinking for awhile. If the Seahawks want to keep Wilson they need to extend him now. They need to show a vote of confidence in him, show him the payday, and show him how they will improve the rest of the team.

    It’s not enough to drag this out for Wilson’s remaining two contract years. They would be negotiating anyway a year from now. So if they want him, start negotiating today.

    It’s also not enough to drag out Pete Carroll’s remaining 4 years of contract. But replacing the head coach and staff is a dangerous move, it can pay off big. Or it could put Seahawks in the basement for many years. Don’t you think that the bottom third of the teams is mostly made of teams with coaches even worse than Carroll? I don’t want to go there either.

    • Peter says:

      Alternately if your goal is a suoerbowl Pete and Russ are already done.

      There’s a great 538 piece a few years back about how coach/qb combos and 27 of them out of 31 win their ring in the first five years. History far outweighs whether Pete gets a ring again in Seattle with or with out Wilson.

      For me I’m not interested in 16 years of Carrol with one ring because it could get be worse. I mean this team alone has shown twice this century that it can be better than mediocre.

      • AlaskaHawk says:

        That five year stat would be interesting to dig up. I keep thinking about Denver Bronco history and Elway getting two rings late in his career. Then there was a washed up Peyton Manning getting towed to a ring by the elite Denver defense.

        • Peter says:

          QB’s have done it later with different coaches. Manning, roethlisburger, maybe Rodgers this year, elway of course.

          And coaches have changed teams and won. Reid but that was still in his first five years at KC.

          It’s kind of why I am of the mindest that PC should take the show somewhere else. Otherwise we are seeing the results currently.

          Just did a search going back to the nineties. I didn’t check the coach/qb combos but for a coach to get his second ring is both super rare and at least for 30 odd years tge drought with the same team is five years at the longest. So Pete yet again would be a supreme outlier if he does it again after so long.

    • Rscott412 says:

      You could probably pick and choose what available coach you want because Russell Wilson will be the quarterback. That makes your coach search a lot more attractive then other teams.

      • AlaskaHawk says:

        Except the teams that didn’t make the playoffs are already shopping for the best head coaches. Are the Seahawks?

        Follow the money. Two more years for Wilson, four more years for Pete Carroll.

        • Rscott412 says:

          Exactly why the move should have happened this past week now the ownership has put us in a bad situation where I believe Russ will want out. I Just can’t see them function at a high level with the disconnect between all parties.

  16. MychestisBeastmode says:

    We only have to look at the Patriots to find the clear answer as to which is more important: QB or Coach?

    Belichick will go down as the best coach of all time. Brady will go down as the Best QB of all time. Brady is winning or competing for Superbowls without Belichick. BB is not doing the same without Brady. Case closed.

    Lock down Russ. Even it means at the expense of Pete or other staff.

    It appears the Seahawks are choosing the coach over QB and it is going to hurt the franchise for some period of time; which is already too long imho. I hope I’m wrong, and could envision possible success with the likes of Carr or other more prototypical QB types, but it doesn’t mean I want to think it about that possible future any more than I already have.

    • TheOtherJordan says:

      I don’t disagree at all with your overall point which is QB is more important. But I disagree about BB. He lost the greatest QB of all time and two years later took a rookie QB to the playoffs. And that rookie QB looks like the real deal. Obviously, they got destroyed yesterday but I think that had a lot to do with Josh Allen. He is now a top 5 QB in the NFL.

      The Pats clearly need to rebuild their defense but I think they might have a new franchise QB. And if they do that franchise QB is on a very affordable rookie contract for four more years. I wouldn’t bet against BB with that set up. The Bills-Pats games are going to be some of the most entertaining NFL football for the foreseeable future, IMO.

      • GaiusMarius says:

        Agreed. What I see in the Patriots is a team putting another serious contender back together. They will be dangerous next year.

        • MychestisBeastmode says:

          Sure, we could get to work on putting a contender together with PC sans RW or we could skip all that rubbish and have a contender right now with RW sans PC or at least his offensive philosophy and personnel powers.

          Outside of that, I agree BB putting together something worth being optimistic about.

      • Scot04 says:

        Ironically Buffalo did it through the air vrs NE. Amazing Good teams play to their strengths, adapt & attack other teams weaknesses.
        PC fails to grasp these concepts.

        • Malc from PO says:

          Hit the nail on the head. For coach Carroll the system trumps everything else and the rest of the league knows how to beat it. It has become so frustrating.

    • lil’stink says:

      Wilson isn’t close to being anywhere as good as Brady. Never has, never will. If we was it would be a no brainer. And Wilson’s game isn’t going to age like Brady’s, a point that can’t be stressed enough but is oft ignored.

      • MychestisBeastmode says:

        Yes, I agree, Brady being the greatest QB of all time implies he is better than RW. Also, BB > PC. And I don’t care who it is as head coach, in terms of aging well, 71 is not a good thing no matter how you look at it.

        I get your point. Maybe I could have worded my original post differently, but it seems like you’re responding to topics I did not say or intend to convey.

      • Scot04 says:

        Look at Brady’s O-line & Defenses in both NE & TB.
        Both teams GMs & HCs know how to build rosters & deligate.
        Both teams adapt to what the game dictates & know how to put their players in the best positions to succeed.
        PC & JS have have lost their way, & haven’t provided this for quite a long time now.
        Brady may be better; but I don’t think he would have had the same success or close to it, if he’d been here under Carroll

  17. GerryG says:

    PC/JS just seem so damn oblivious to this, it’s easily one of their worst traits. How they can approach this with fluffy press conferences while closing their eyes and covering their ears is dumbfounding. The team COULD make some shrewd moves and be a contender, but clearly they envision a simple resign their guys and run it back mentality. Clearly they are not sitting down with Russ and hashing out a plan to fix this. This to me is one of their biggest failures.

    There are arguments that can be made in favor of Pete/John: the team never gave up, they did start to play better, the defense lost a lot of guys and still managed to be ok (points wise), they started letting pass rushers actually rush, and their point differential was positive and suggests they should have won 9-10 games. Even the last 2 drafts seem improved. NOTE: I don’t believe this is enough, I’m just acknowledging the arguments in favor of them.

    The team, from ownership down is just blowing this entire situation so badly. This going to be endless drama that will mess everything up. It’s like their roster building philosophy: there is no plan! Everything is fine! Good grief. The lack of leadership is daunting.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think it’s more complacency than being oblivious.

      And I think Schneider would happily trade RW.

      It’s Pete who won’t. It’s Pete who wants to keep bringing everyone back, doing the same thing.

      And the franchise has given him the keys.

      • Peter says:

        That’s fine if Scheider wants to trade Wilson. But what evidence is there that JS is going to fire up a strong back bone and do things differently than the guy he apparently reports to?

        The only thing pete has going right now is the understanding that his succes is tied to Wilson.

      • Seahawk_Dan says:

        I don’t think Pete knows how to build a team.

        Okay, I’m being somewhat hyperbolic but here me out.

        He gets here, knows all the college talent for at least the next 3 years and builds off it, creates one of the best Seattle franchise of all time. Next? Well his inside scoop dries up and all that talent needs to get paid. He can’t evaluate new talent, he lost that edge so he pays EVERYONE (mostly defense) to stay and keep the same ol’, same ol’.

        However players retire, demand trades, get hurt, and the usual business. Pete needs an influx of talent. Tends to heavily rely on known talent via trades rather than fresh draft talent and has no problem spending draft capital on trades because at least “you know what you’re getting”.

      • GerryG says:

        Complacency probably a better description, agreed

  18. Happy Hawk says:

    Carr, Wentz, Darnold ( NFL retreads) or Pickett, Strong, Ridder (this year’s draft prospects) is an eventual losing proposition sure to mire the Hawks into the bottom of the NFC for years. Make Wilson the highest paid QB now.

  19. TheOtherJordan says:

    Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Buffalo have as many playoff wins as Seattle in the last five years. Let that sink in for a moment. If Russell doesn’t force a trade this offseason his threats lose all credibility. There isn’t going to be a nice way to force your way out of town. It’s now or never. If he does leave, some Seahawk fans are going to get a sobering education about how close this franchise really is. And we’re gonna see reality hit the Pete Carroll propaganda if Russell forces his way out.

    • MychestisBeastmode says:

      This is such a Seattle thing too. Harkens back to Mariners and giving away their studs: Griffey, Randy Johnson, A-Rod, Tino Martinez. I’d bet if we ship Russell away, the Hawks will have a similar decade+ of swimming in shit before becoming competitive again.

      • Roy Batty says:

        Griffey, Johnson and ARod all wanted out, if I recall. Griffey wanted to play for his home town. Johnson wanted to go South. ARod wanted to break the bank and didn’t care who paid him.

        Add in a small market franchise that didn’t want to spend money and you get what you get.

        • MychestisBeastmode says:

          And where does Russ want to be right now? Seattle?

          And ya, Griffey admitted he regretted his demand to go home to Cincinnati. He effed the M’s with that trade demand as we got a tokens in exchange for gold (albeit gold with soon to be discovered poor hamstrings). ARod got eff you money too, no denying. Randy didn’t want to leave until the team shortchanged him and then got the idea his back problems he was dealing with meant he was on a downward trajectory. I think his back healed up ok. Fuckin Mariners. Plus they passed on hometown Tim Lincecum who had a stellar but short career. Now, they have the disgraced ex-president with all the stupid shit he said that will weigh heavy on all of these youngsters minds when it comes time for potential contract extensions or free agency decisions. Especially when their checks are cut by the same guys who were hobnobbing around with the disgraced Pres for the last 2 decades… Fuckin Mariners! Damnit. Plus they wasted Felix and Seager’s careers. Fuckin Mariners. At least Dipoto and Manager are competent. My nephew didn’t even know who Ken Griffey Jr was. That’s what 20 years of bad baseball will do. It’s skips a whole generation.

    • cha says:

      And Jacksonville has more than the Seahawks in the last five years. 2-1.

      Let that sink in.

  20. SeaTown says:

    How about Philly as a trade spot for Russ? They have draft capital plus they have two QBs that at least get me interested in Minshew and Hurts (I like both better than Carr, Dimes, Denver or NO options). I’m team Russ but if a deal must be made give me one or both of the Philly plus picks.

    • Travis says:

      Would’ve been much more likely had Philly not made the playoffs, hard to see Hurts taking them to the playoffs and then them trading for another QB

      • Henry Taylor says:

        Unless he plays crap in the playoffs and they get bounced in the first round.

        • Sean-O says:

          Philly is in an interesting spot. Yes, they made the playoffs (#7 seed) but they could go two ways. Use their draft capital & build around Hurts or take those picks & trade for a stud QB like Russ.

          How would SEA fans feel about a minimum package of two 1’s, another pick, or two plus Hurts back for Russ?

        • L80 says:

          I’m watching Hurts now and yes it does Hurts.

  21. Ashish says:

    What a disconnect between Russ Pete JS and Jody. Jody should have checked if having everyone return an option.
    If Russ get traded because of Pete greed, he definitely fall in hate category.

    • SeaTown says:

      Jodi Allen is an absentee owner. She obviously doesn’t care hence the big extensions last year for JS/PC.

      • TheOtherJordan says:

        The early evidence certainly supports this statement. And if she is and the trust doesn’t sell the team, we could be headed for the Behring era 2.0.

  22. Travis says:

    Rob could we get a potential Russ trade article? Giants, Steelers, Broncos seems like the obvious trade locations. Possibly Chicago and Vegas depending on what happens with the coaching hires

    • Rob Staton says:

      I haven’t got a lot of motivation to write about it.

      For me the candidates are strictly Vegas, NYG, Denver, New Orleans, Philly

      • jed says:

        Philly makes a ton of sense.

        A good friend of mine is a huge Eagles fan (his dad has season tickets going back to the 60’s). We’ve been talking about what it would take. Russ+DK for 5 1’s and Hurts is where we’ve landed.

      • Duceyq says:

        I think if Philly offers Seattle Hurts and their three 1st’s for 2022 Seattle should consider.

      • Sean-O says:

        I think you nailed the five teams. If I’m the Hawks & things go down the road of Russ wanting to be traded, I let it be known to every team, not just his list I’m sure he’ll provide.

        Maybe a “mystery” team steps up then you approach Russ’s camp about expanding his list.

        My “sleeper” team would be CLE. Did JS explore trading Russ to the Browns for the #1 pick to then select Josh Allen?

        • DT says:

          Yeah rumors in 2018 of Russ to Cleveland. Might be why he wanted a no trade clause. Ironic, given that Cleveland might be a RW away from SB contention.
          I dont see Denver as viable.
          Go from the toughest division to the 2nd toughest? To a team that is 0-13 vs KC? Russ has never been the 2nd best QB in the division, he gonna be good with that?
          To a degree, same concerns with Vegas.

  23. SeaTown says:

    Throw Pitt out. The Steeler ownership doesn’t operate that way. Replace Pitt with Philly.

  24. JaFreeman says:

    After scrolling through the comments, I didn’t see anyone ask what changes Seattle might make to appease Wilson.

    – a change in team strategy?
    – more say in personnel decisions, both in players and coaches?

    Consider what Rodgers said: “The grass is greener where you water it.” Is it possible for the grass to get watered in Seattle while PC and JS are still there?

  25. Big Mike says:

    You know, I made the mistake of having hope. At my age I should know better.

    I hoped that maybe Pete Carroll would see that life without Russell Wilson could be very difficult and retire.
    I hoped that Jody Allen and/or the people around her would see through the bullshit that Pete Carroll spews.
    I hoped that Jody Allen and/or the people around her cared about the franchise beyond making money and/or selling it in the future.
    I hoped that Jody Allen and/or the people around her could see the decline in this team that Pete Carroll has created.
    I hoped that Jody Allen and/or the people around her would see that a franchise QB is a far more rare commodity than a quality HC and a quality GM.

    I hoped. They beat every last ounce of it out of me did Jody Allen and Pete Carroll.

  26. rick earp says:

    if its statis quo again i dont see RW signing a exteinsion with seattle or the same shit different year.Its more fun watching 8 to 12 year old girls play soccer just saying

  27. Olyhawksfan says:

    Last off-season was a slow moving trainwreck, and now we have to watch it again. No 1st round draft pick, no change to philosophy, and we might lose Russ. It’s just so depressing. As long as Pete stays we know what the story is going to be. And it doesn’t involve winning.

  28. Denver Hawker says:

    The Emperor has new clothes.

    The local media has largely contributed to this pluralistic ignorance. Even other fan sites appear to avoid strong dissent. I suspect the quashing of dissent will continue among the zeolots and shallow arguments reducing to blind-faith will reign.

    Russ’ trade interest will be dismissed as a ‘non-story’ until it comes from his lips.

    Of course, if Pete turns this around next year, he’ll ascend to Olympus and be enshrined in lore. His glory told to our grandchildren’s grandchildren.

    But if we plod to another impotent playoff loss or last place finish. The Emperors supporters will no doubt find blame elsewhere. If the current circumstances aren’t sufficient to require change, I’m afraid nothing will.

    • MychestisBeastmode says:

      I blame Obama or Bernie Sanders.

    • Tomas says:

      John Clayton said yesterday on the lamentable 710am that any thought or talk of Russ being traded is “stupid, stupid, stupid!” A complete tizzy fit … I think he was probably holding his breath as well, and turning red.

      • Rob Staton says:

        John has become quite hilarious over the last couple of years

        ‘Utah Gross Ma Toast’

        • ShowMeYourHawk says:

          Right? He’s so much more “edgy” since being sh*tcanned by ESPN proper. Leads one to wonder if that’s a side effect of his sacking or if he was always an open pustule, even when considered a “reputable” league source?

      • Mr drucker in hooterville says:

        Yes. I use to make sure to hear what Clayton thought. Now I listen to him like the vitamin radio shows on Saturdays

  29. rick earp says:

    RUN FOR YOUR LIFE RW!!!!!!!!!!

  30. Seahawk_Dan says:

    Is it safe to say that Pete morphed from the coach that won the Seahawks a Super Bowl to the coach than ran Russell Wilson out of town? Is that his legacy now?

  31. JimQ says:

    I still hold on to the -slight- possibility that these reports are nothing more than pure media conjecture.
    Sources say ……., Could very well be: “The meeting was held & we haven’t heard anything at all” — therefore RW wants to be traded and PC/JS still have all the power & want to go with their current “plan” for the team, with or without RW. Perhaps in the next few days, we’ll hear a real explanation of what went on in their “meeting” rather than just speculating about it? Until then, I’ll be waiting for the real explanation of what went on when they met, it should be fully disclosed sooner rather than later, shouldn’t it?

  32. pdway says:

    I never thought it was realistic that PC was going to get fired this off-season. And to be clear, that’s not b/c I disagree with the POV that’s been raised on this blog, or that many of us have come to based on the performance the past couple years. I don’t need to repeat any of it – we all know the trendlines and how they’re going.

    It’s more that Carroll is a pretty iconic NFL guy, one of the 2-3 best known coaches in the league, who won a SB, and then kept the team in the contender/relevance part of the NFL for the better part of a decade after. Again, pls don’t think I’m blind to the on-field product, I’m really talking about general perception. Someone somewhere in a comment here mentioned how in the Bay Area, the perception is that PC/JS are top-drawer, and the Hawks in general are a well-run organization – – all my non-Hawks fan friends repeat the same thing to me.

    All of which is to say, while I maybe hoped Carroll would want to ride off into the sunset this off-season, I couldn’t see the chance he’d be let go after his first sub-.500 season after 9 winning ones in a row. FWIW (and I know it ain’t worth much), I do think a 2nd losing season probably does accomplish it – most likely that he’d be pressured either into some executive role or retirement.

    So where does that leave us? Speaking for myself only, i’m not going to burn my Seahawks fan card. I still love football on Sundays, and having a team to root for, even in shitty times, is part of the deal. I’ll slog through it.

    My hope for this year? I really, really hope they at least get a new defensive coordinator (i’m willing to give Waldron another year); and spend their FA money in the right places. Fully acknowledge that it could be a long, dreary season – resigned to making the best of it.

    • Rob Staton says:

      JMHO — but I think the worst thing a fan base can do is accept a s**t sandwich and say thank you for the meal.

      • BruceN says:

        I have to say I’m quite disappointed at the meeting producing little outside of message of staying the course. It would’ve been good to at least get an acknowledgement of what didn’t work and what we plan to do to get on track. Saying little, probably means they believe we’re on the right track and just need to get thru the bad luck and injuries. Not sure I can take another off-season like last year.

        Let’s hope there was more to the meeting and we’ll hear more about some changes.

  33. jed says:

    Chris Mortensen makes a good point – everyone is going to talking about a Russ trade, whether it’s real or not. I would like all three of Russ, Pete, & John to make it clear Russ is going nowhere. But, like Big Mike said above, nothing is going the way we hoped.

    https://twitter.com/mortreport/status/1482764297180790785?s=21

    • Rob Staton says:

      I’m not sure it’s such a great point. Because we know it’s real.

      What also appears to be real is Mort still has a nice line to JS.

      • jed says:

        Yeah, it’s definitely real.

        I could be placing my own priors, but I think all three could say no trade is going to happen and there still would be speculation. I guess the only thing that would stop rumors would be a big extension.

        • Rob Staton says:

          If they make it abundantly clear no trade is happening — all parties — and then put actions to those words as discussed in the piece, then it goes away.

          But that won’t happen…

      • cha says:

        What also appears to be real is Mort still has a nice line to JS.

        Gregg Bell can put that report in his pipe and smoke it.

  34. Tomas says:

    Minshew’s TD/Int ratio is 41/12, earned largely with a totally CRAP team with virtually no OL or weapons. Allow me to repeat for emphasis: 41/12 – historically good numbers (compare Darnold’s stats just for fun.)

    Some discerning, QB needy team needs to start Minshew next season. I hope it’s not us, as I fervently pray that Pete and JS get the boot, and that Russell will give us another 5-7 years of brilliant QB play (no one except Brady will play to 45, sorry Russ.)

    But i, God forbid, the worst happens, as appears likely, and Jody the Giraffe-bone smuggler (tip of the cap to MaToast) makes the abominable decision to retain Carroll, and Russ leaves … how is it possible to overlook or discount 41/12?

    • Tomas says:

      * if, God forbid (proof-reader just fired.)

    • Henry Taylor says:

      Minshew also has the bonus of just being a fun guy to route for. If you cant have a good team, at least give me a team I can get behind emotionally.

      • Roy Batty says:

        One thing I will say about Minshew is his demeanor at the combine.

        Of all the QBs in attendance, he was the only one that looked relaxed and having a good time. Every other QB looked like they were walking into their board reviews. Which they were. But, Minshew had an air of someone hanging out with the fellas.

  35. Dingbatman says:

    If they’re going to downgrade from RW might as well let LV trade Carr for a Stafford like return and add to their draft capital and roll with Mariota.

    • Tomas says:

      I don’t disagree, so long as LV proves to be the team of choice.

      • Tomas says:

        I may have misunderstood your comment. If you’re suggesting the Hawks acquire Mariota, I’m not in favor of that.

        • Dingbatman says:

          Only kind of. I’d prefer Mariota and many many more picks to Carr and few picks. If PCJS have another QB in mind not named Carr I see it as a way the Raiders could get the draft capital to make them viable.

        • SeaTown says:

          Agreed. Hard pass on Marcus.

  36. GaiusMarius says:

    Media reports aside, the “everything is fine” between Carroll/Schneider and Allen still seems underreported. Some of it relies on “well, I haven’t heard anything so…”. Is that just style, less rather than more communication? We saw that during Wilson’s last off season saga, so perhaps.

    Wilson has his first “trade me” leak, which gave the Seahawks nearly 1 week to make big changes. The pro-Pete fandom is already dismissing it as clickbait or just his agent or contrived.

    If Allen has decided to stick with Carroll in the status quo it is time for judgment, but with 2 paths.

    1. She is prepping to sell. That has been rumored and sticking with a fading coach and management make more sense if that is the case. The timeline for that sale? Within the term of Carroll and Schneider’s contracts. So get ready for limbo, especially if Wilson hits the road.

    2. She is not preparing to sell. If that is the case, the most kind thing to say is that she is more accepting of mediocrity. I credit her with being able to read trends and data.

    If…if…it’s #2 and we lose the only franchise QB we have ever had over it, she deserves outright condemnation. It would also show that a whole lot of us (myself included) have misread what this franchise would vs. should do. 🙁

    • SeaTown says:

      I lean towards option #1. It was reported that a search firm had been hired. Some of us wished it was to search for head coaches. Now it makes sense that it was probably to find new ownership groups. PC/JS will run amok unchecked until new owners come aboard.

      • Denver Hawker says:

        There aren’t many recent examples, but I understand the league keeps a short list of buyers. That potential owners have discussions with the league many years in advance.

        The Broncos hired an investment bank to run the sale process and that is what I would expect here too.

  37. BobbyK says:

    I’ll take Carr and the Raiders first two picks and a No. 1 in ’24. Would they do that? I don’t know.

    I like Carr. He reminds me of Matt Hasselbeck in terms of being a QB you can win with. The Raiders shouldn’t have been in the game last night because the Bengals are clearly the better team. I’ll take the Seahawks WRs any day over what Carr has. Granted, Waller is a good TE but the Seahawks receivers are a lot better.

    Carr is also a leader. I think there are plenty of Seahawks who don’t view Russ as that “leader” anymore. How could they? He threw the OL under the bus last off-season (we was right, they have sucked and the coach/GM are the dumbasses who have fueled the crap OL for a long time).

    Why follow someone you know who doesn’t want to be there? Or follow the coach/QB relationship. It’s like marriages where the couple stays together even though they’re not in love anymore. That’s not good for kids either.

    Just end it because it’s not good for anybody.

    You’ve made your decision, Jody. You’ve chosen the 71-year old coach over the franchise QB. Can we please have clarity moving on? The fans are asking/begging for it. Unless you lie and say you care about the fans when you really don’t? Either come out with a statement totally squashing all of this (not speculation) or get it over with so we can move on.

  38. Paul says:

    Carr is the Raiders’ career leader in fumbles (78). (No one else is even close.) The Raiders recovered 19 of those, so together with 85 INTs, Carr has 144 career TOs. Over an eight-year career, that comes to 18 per season or a little more than one per game over a 127-game career (1.13 to be precise).

    Russell Wilson has fumbled 87 times in 158 games; Seattle recovered 35 of those, so the net is 52 lost fumbles. Wilson has also thrown 87 INTs over the same span, for 139 total TOs (0.88 per game).

    For the sake of argument, let’s assume that their protection has been equal. We can assume that Carr will turn the ball 19 times next year and Wilson 15 times. The difference may seem minor until we consider that Seattle plays a lot close games. Should Carr be QB next season, the impact of four additional TOs spread across four games could be costly.

  39. Blitzy the Clown says:

    Yes, Seahawks coach Pete Carroll and GM John Schneider met Thursday with owner Jody Allen but a well-placed source said it was usual end of season review, a look ahead and no job security talk.All systems are go with Carroll, Schneider and QB Russell Wilson, source said.Wilson has two years left on his contract, he’s expressed desire to finish in Seattle, he has a no trade clause but, of course, his name will be in play for everyone to discuss because that’s the new frontier, real or not.— Chris Mortensen (@mortreport) January 16, 2022

    Lack of evidence is not evidence of absence. I still maintain that although Carroll obviously convinced Allen all is good in their end-of-season meeting, including Wilson remaining a Seahawk, everything I’ve seen and heard from Wilson or his camp suggests he won’t remain a Seahawk under the circumstances. Which means that eventually it will be undeniable – to you, me, the Mike Salks and Chris Mortensens of the world, and even Jody Allen – that Carroll sold her a bill of goods he can’t deliver. Unfortunately, I’m becoming less sure this leads to Carroll voluntarily stepping down or being removed (so as not to destroy the franchise just to assuage his bruised ego), and more certain that Carroll will be the HC regardless of who’s playing QB.

    The taste in my mouth couldn’t be less palatable.

    One more thing. The last part of Mortensen’s tweets really offend me. As if we’re all out here jsut making stuff up because ‘that’ the new frontier, real or not.’ I could do without the condescension.

  40. Rob Staton says:

    Games like this for Philly (and LV last night) — this is why teams get interested in players like Wilson.

    • Big Mike says:

      Philly is utterly one dimensional with little ability to mount an NFL level passing attack.
      They’re only in the playoffs because they played a very soft schedule and the league added another playoff slot last year. They beat zero teams with a winning record this year, as in none.
      This game was the easiest wager of the weekend.

      • GerryG says:

        It’s like someone tweeted last night: just because you made it doesn’t really mean you have a chance, there real differences in the quality of these teams

      • JimQ says:

        The way Philly’s wild card game is going (down 17-0 with a Fields INT just before halftime), should mean they are up for a big time QB trade, using their ample draft choices to do so. –Maybe– Philly is where RW winds up?

  41. McZ says:

    So, PC seems to have bought in Jody Allen on the idea, that there is a championship-capable core. Let’s see…

    Russell Wilson (unhappy, evaluates options to move out)
    Tyler Lockett (last contract)
    DK Metcalf (needs to get paid)
    Michael Dickson (needs to get paid)

    The rest of the roster are strictly replacement grade players. Any of those names is on the offense or special teams. While the defense was incapable of sending their adversaries off the field.

    Where is the championship capable talent?
    Where is the sustainable growth, compared to let’s say the Bills?
    What am I missing here?

  42. GoHawksDani says:

    Carr could be a cherry on top, not a negotiation starter.
    I’d rather have Giants’ firsts. That way you could add a true star for the future, a difference maker. Not at QB but at least somewhere. This team needs a Donald or Ramsey or Derrick Henry. I can’t name a single superstar. One who you must plan for but will beat you nonetheless. Lockett is great but some teams get him out of the game completely. RW has his silver bullett (especially with this staff). On the defense I can’t name anyone who is truly exceptional. We need 1-2 guys like that, a solid overall roster and a QB (and probably decent FO) to be able to compete.

    If they trade RW I’ll be curious to see what happens, but if they mess up again, I’m not sure I can watch NFL next year

  43. Kevin Mullen says:

    Yes let’s absolve the quarterback from any fault of his own and let’s blame the system in place. Never mind that RW can’t read a defense past his first read and resorts to “backyard” football. Guy can’t stay/step up in the pocket to save his life. The receivers know it, the OLine knows it, and 3 different Offensive Coordinators know this.

    Say what you will with draft choices during his tenure, but Wilson hasn’t grown to the QB he thinks of himself to be. He acts like he’s LeBron. And don’t get me wrong, I’m good for PC to go as well, but let’s give Wilson his wish: Trade his ass.

    • Scot04 says:

      I would have been ok with a Wilson trade if we had a new GM & HC with a plan.
      Not looking forward to PC still being overall in charge of the assets aquired & what sounds like 0 plan.

      • Kevin Mullen says:

        Preferably I’d like to give JS a true shot at calling his own picks/trades and let PC (if he’s still here) just coach. But ideally, I’d like for Pete to call it a career and maybe move to an upstairs suite where he can focus on more “30K ft level” decisions.

        It would be interesting to see what coach JS would try to acquire/hire post Pete Carroll era.

        • Mr drucker in hooterville says:

          Pete carroll should be no where near a nonHC role, including GM. If he isn’t willing to loosen the reins and let 2outstanding coordinators run their units and a GM make the roster, he should quit or be fired.

          • Peter says:

            He’s already failing this. Vig fangio won’t be a head coach and is way ahead of KNJ. So unless fangio is all in on a Harbaugh reunion if pete was a grwat coach he would can knj and hire fangio and turn this lackluster unit around.

  44. Gross MaToast says:

    This post could have just as easily been titled, ‘And So It Ends.’

    Pete getting verklempt in-season when discussing Wilson, admitting that he never would have made twelve seasons without Russ, now seems to foreshadow what we are about to watch play out. He is and has been fully aware of how it would play out and the resulting ramifications. Wilson likely did, as well.

    If (when) Wilson leaves, the end of any championship window Seattle envisioned goes with him. Argue about the package that he might fetch, but whatever it is will never come close to replicating his true value. Add that it’s Pete Carroll using those picks and we’re doubling down on the disaster.

    The childlike devotion afforded PC by the Seattle press and many, many fans is a lethargic willingness to turn a blind eye and ignore reality. Don’t Look Up. It’s dumbfounding, really.

    I wonder, had Paul Allen lived, who would be coaching the Seahawks now.

    Argue Derek Carr vs. Jalen Hurts vs. Mitch Trubisky vs. Jameis Winston – it doesn’t matter. They are all variations of the same guy and Pete Carroll isn’t going to make any of them better than they have already shown themselves to be.

    On the good news front, Chris Carson and Flamal Badams will probably be ready for the start of the season..Always compete.

  45. Scot04 says:

    If your RW & it’s truly about Superbowls why would you sign the extension.
    PC already said he believes this roster has the nucleus of a contender; & sees no reason for major changes.
    Yet we need major Changes.
    If we started Free-agency with Ryan Jensen & Chandler Jones then that’s an entirely different story.
    I however have 0 confidence we’ll see a big change from Quantity over Quality.
    Hope I’m wrong, but preparing for a RW trade.
    If RW traded I’m hoping the Giants would do 5, 7, & 36 this year & a 1st next year. I would think this is the best we could hope for.
    Denver 2 1sts & two 2nds, Raiders 2 low 1sts & Carr, Eagles 2 1sts & Hurts.
    Those being our best returns.
    Feeling pretty deflated with the feeling we will have to suffer a similar offseason wait this offseason.
    Only difference is this year RW likely goes before the draft.

  46. BruceN says:

    I don’t see Lurie going another year with Hurts. He’s a good owner with a passion to win and a runner (poor thrower) QB wouldn’t cut it for him. He would be a serious contender for Russell when it becomes clear he’s available.

  47. Hawks4life says:

    Jalen Hurts might be the worst passing QB in the league.

    • 12th chuck says:

      after struggling to watch the first half, Russ can definitely add the Eagles back on the trade list. Hurts is terrible

      • Hawks4life says:

        Agreed. And if they make us an offer I’d rather have Minshew over Hurts

        • Hawkdawg says:

          But why would Wilson approve a trade to Philly? They have a long way to go to give him the skill players he wants, especially at WR, and they’d be stripped of several of their best draft choices over the next 2-3 years in any trade with the Hawks.

          Is it possible they could fill those gaps otherwise? Sure. But Wilson will want more than possible.

  48. dand393 says:

    I honestly don’t blame Wilson for wanting to explore his options I think he truly knows he doesn’t have a championship calibre roster, but he needs to just come out and say trade me or I’m not playing for you he needs to stop playing games

  49. GoHawksDani says:

    PCJS traded RW for Giants’ #5, #8, #36 and next year’s R1. They call you about draft strategy. Who do you target? Do you trade back? Go 😀

    • ShowMeYourHawk says:

      Um, were we forced to take Danny Jones back in the deal? That would go a long way in determining just how f*cked we are….

      • GoHawksDani says:

        Well we could also get him or not. But even if we get him we could use him as backup if we want.
        I’m just not sure about #5 and #8. Apart from the top3 pick I have no idea who could be a true dominant force in this draft. Does someone sticks out? Based on Rob’s draft list I might trade back from 5 to 12-15. If we don’t target a specific position, we could get a similar player at that range as if we’d at 5th. But maybe I’m wrong.
        I’d love an elite CB, DE, DT or LT. I’d be happy with these if #5 is much better than #13 for example.
        If we trade RW, I hope they build a great DL (1 elite DE and 1 very good DT could elevate that group imo), a solid secondary (1 elite CB paired with Reed and Brown/Jones and a good DL could be serviceable for that). A solid OL (maybe a C and if Brown walks an LT), and an elite RB (someone like Taylor…ouch), and I’d be content for year 1. Give me a likeable, OK QB (Minshew or Foles maybe) and this team could be 5-12, or 7-10 at best. Next offseason cut Adams, go for a better offense and try to get a good QB in the next 4-5 years.

        I’d go the old Hawks way: dominant D# which can generate TOs and negative yards plays (sacks, TFLs) and a good running game. Won’t win you an SB without a QB but I like that play

    • Swisshawk says:

      How about…

      Trade #5 + next year’s R1 for #1 –> DE Hutchinson
      #8: OT
      #36: DT
      2: HB
      3: LB
      4: CB
      4: S

      … and IF we can sign a C (Bozeman?) & DE (Clowney?) in FA

      … we probably can have a nice year with Geno in 2022 (only half kidding)

  50. CL says:

    I still think that one of the most interesting questions is what Pete will do if Russ should really force a trade.

    I think Rob is spot on, that Pete doesn’t want a rebuild at all.
    But even as delusional as Pete is regarding some things, I think he could retire eventually, if Russ is forcing a trade.

    • Blitzy the Clown says:

      I used to think that. Used to be convinced of that.

      But I’m not at all sure of that anymore. I think Carroll’s hubris has convinced him that he truly does have the core nucleus of a Super Bowl roster, and he can simply replace Wilson and remain in contention.

      • cha says:

        I think it’s a coded message to Russ. We have a championship team if you stay.

        • Blitzy the Clown says:

          Maybe. But if that’s true, then I expect Carroll to pack it in if Wilson says no.

          Also, I don’t think Wilson will agree that they are a championship team merely because Wilson is on the roster, as opposed to after making significant offseason moves this year. Which they said they were going to do last year, but didn’t.

          I don’t know cha.

    • BA says:

      I don’t think Pete is quite that arrogant or stupid to think he’ll be successful with a Darnold or drunk Geno in place of Russ, but who knows. I agree with Rob that there needs to be some sort of definitive answer here. We know exactly where Pete stands and we know that ownership will continue to be absent, so ultimately the onus falls on Russ to not waffle around for an entire offseason. If he chooses to come back to this mess just to pad Pete’s legacy then that’s his own fault.

  51. Blitzy the Clown says:

    Apropos of nothing, I think DeAndre Hopkins and Mike Evans are the two best WRs to be drafted in the last decade.

  52. Happy Hawk says:

    What I hate about the lack of information from all parties is that we have to listen to the minshew, marriotta etc. madness. Lose Wilson = a decade of being one of the “have nots”. The Hawks must extend Wilson…ownership has to know that? PC and JS can’t play QB.

  53. dand393 says:

    If I was the eagles I would be seriously looking into a Russ trade

  54. Seahawk_Dan says:

    If you go on certain Seahawk forums they’re either ecstatic of his re-signing and/or calling Russ’s Wilson dismay as fake news essentially or just clickbait. Am I going insane? Do they think this is Pete Carroll from 2012-2015? Has had nearly nonstop winning seasons (with nothing to show for it) created a type of brain rot?

    • BA says:

      Frankly, our fanbase is a bit…special…even compared to other NFL fanbases. Combined with Pete working the narrative moreso than any other coach in the league, the fans have quite a bit of impostor syndrome going on. Like I honestly think a good chunk of people are uncomftorable with expecting success and would rather us just settle into being a 5-12 team that beats up on the Jets and Lions.

    • Matt says:

      This isn’t meant to be political (and Rob – delete at your own discretion), but it will never not be hilarious to me that the most left-wing, progressive fanbase wants status quo and to keep the old white guy who runs his organization on yes men and nepotism, whilst running the black QB out of town. I just chuckle at this thought.

      This fanbase is terrible and thinks it’s the most informed group on planet earth. Today I’ve seen countless tweets about “RW can’t make these reads like Tom Brady.”

      Yea…no shit. There are 30 other teams thinking the same thing. I’m just sick of these people. Yes, RW is not Tom Brady. He’s also not Jalen Hurts. How these galaxy brains that are his influential in our fanbase can’t make these basic distinctions is beyond me. I just despise them.

      • Blitzy the Clown says:

        I don’t understand your argument. By definition, progressive means you want change that leads to improvement, and status quo is antithetical to that mindset.

        Also, speaking personally as a proud progressive liberal, I desperately want change at the top, and the status quo is totally unacceptable to me.

        • Matt says:

          It’s not an argument, I’m making. I’m poking fun at the Hawkblogger Crew, Field Gulls crew – who are ultra progressive and seemingly don’t want anything to change other than running RW out of town whilst wanting PC to be here until the day he dies. Don’t dig too deep into this; it was meant to be a harmless joke.

          • Blitzy the Clown says:

            Ah, got it. No worries. Been perception testing hawkblogger’s tweets a lot lately myself.

            • Matt says:

              No worries at all – and absolutely wasn’t meant to be a political comment; just a stupid “thought” that I chuckle at.

              Brian is absolutely a smart guy who really is very similar to Pete, in the sense of “I’m smarter than anybody else.” He then spouts off a dumb stat about RW to prove he is not very good.

              I love disagreement and debate; but these people are just not very honest about their true position. It’s fine to want PC over RW – I think it’s dumb, but everyone is allowed to have an opinion. The problem is they do the “it’s not that I don’t want RW, but if you look at this random stat, he’s not very good” stuff that just makes me scoff at everything else they say.

              There’s this weird crusade that RW isn’t as good as Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers, therefore, he’s not any good at all and totally indistinguishable from the likes of Derek Carr, Marcus Mariota, etc. it’s just nonsense. He’s a very good QB who, like every other QB, has bad games, stretches. Unlike 4/5 QBs, his hot streaks are filled with “best player in football” caliber of play.

              So yes, he can’t read defenses like Tom Brady – if that’s the expectation, they better trade for Tom Brady or Joe Burrow or Aaron Rodgers; because those are the only guys I see that process the game different then every other QB alive and playing.

              • Peter says:

                I don’t want to hurt smart fans feelings. But rodgers is only fractionally better at the same stage of their careers.

                And Tom Brady. I get he had that monster year with 50tds… But turns out Wilson is better than Brady at the same point in their careers. Except…..Brady never played with a sub top ten defense in his first 10 starting seasons. And seattle hasn’t played with a top 10 defense since the year the year rebuild started.

              • Roy Batty says:

                I’m no fan of FG’s, but the writers over their do a great job in keeping the topics and comments football centric. They ban political crap, and other things, like misogynist, racist and conspiracy screed. They have plenty of commenters who are right leaning, but they know the rules and abide by them.

                Other than that, it isn’t a very good site. Too many commenters quashing commentary on Pete for far too long. It took this abysmal season for many of them to even contemplate moving on, but now their back to being in lock step with the Pete cult.

                Tyler Jorgensen comments here and on that site and does a great job making his case, all while many deride him at FG’s. He is the rare case, though.

                • Peter says:

                  You can also check out Denver hawk there also trying to make simple cases.

                  As for me I don’t read it. I get way more nuts and bolts of football from Rob and Cha.

                • Rob Staton says:

                  Let’s not dwell too much on the Field Gulls comment section.

                  They’re obsessed with this place. We don’t need to go down that route too.

    • Tomas says:

      Pete could use his charisma and BS prowess for a higher purpose – like founding a new religious cult, and heading up the commune somewhere in the jungles of central America. He’ d have his followers, including a good slice of the Seattle sports media.

      • Seahawk_Dan says:

        There is a Pete Carroll cult, a good majority of Seahawks fans. Since this revelation that Pete is staying and Russ wants to explore options, the response has either been denial, fraud report, or even detriment towards Russell, ie “can’t read defenses” and overrated. What the hell happened?

        • Rob Staton says:

          The fanbase is in a very strange place at the moment

          And there are a lot of warring factions

          It’s not healthy, for the team or the fans

          • Seahawk_Dan says:

            It’s so weird. Groups in fans with different opinions is normal but not following Carroll is seen almost as blasphemous or problems are explained away.

            • Rob Staton says:

              Yep

              We’re also seeing an increase in, ‘I’ve been following this team longer than you’ as some kind of argument winner.

              • Seahawk_Dan says:

                Ah yes, “True Fanism”, where all criticism is invalid because I remember the 1992 season.

                • Peter says:

                  Count me in the opposite. I do remember 1992. And i don’t care. I still want big changes up top. They built a great roster an all timer the first go around. Then had ample time to build another all timer via the draft plus five odd or so seasons. And just didn’t.

                  So to fans that don’t want to go back to some dark ages….guess what? We are already. If. If ownership stays complacent.

  55. Denver Hawker says:

    Not to oversimplify things, but in the NFL, a team is either competing for a SB or rebuilding. Realistically competing for a SB requires a top 10 QB or a top-top defense. There are very rare exceptions to this.

    Without Russ, this team isn’t competing for a SB.

    There are rarely opportunities to trade/sign a Top 10 QB and this defense needs major work to get to top-top form.

    • Peter says:

      This is what a lot of fans aren’t seeing. It is extremely hard to winthe big one without a top flight defense. And a top QB. When a team has half of that equation youre at keast closer.

      Subtraction of Wilson. Good grief. Then what? In a down year for him Wilson outplayed a lot of QB’s. And with this defense if Wilson was like some of the new era QBs….high TD’s much a much higher rate of TO’s that too could get ugly.

  56. SeaTown says:

    Ok if Russ is dealt sign me up for Minshew! Love this clip!! Authentic and sincere!
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-VT7KhBAuJM

  57. Mr drucker in hooterville says:

    There is no evidence that Pete Carroll can coach, develop, select, or scout the QB position. Tavaris, whitehurst, Flynn, Smith. He lucked into RW because I don’t believe he wanted to draft him. He keeps Geno Smith as backup for no apparent reason. Any QB not named RW will likely not improve under PC. He needs to go and let the future begin. .

  58. Blitzy the Clown says:

    What the Seahawks cannot have happen again – they can not let Wilson trade speculation dominate the headlines again all offseason as they did last year.In that sense, no, you're not wanting to "run it back."— Corbin K. Smith (@CorbinSmithNFL) January 16, 2022

    Preach it Corbin.

    Here’s a question for the “Wilson ain’t going anywhere and the Seahawks don’t owe you any explanation” crowd:

    Why wouldn’t the Seahawks put this whole situation to rest by affirmatively confirming Wilson isn’t going anywhere? They could do it so easily. A contract extension would be the most obvious and effective. But short of that, they could release an official statement, or have Wilson release an official statement, or leak something to the press. And yet, nothing. Total radio silence.

    If this really is a nonissue, why let it perpetuate, to the detriment of the team and the fan base?

    Simple answer: because it’s not a nonissue.

    • GaiusMarius says:

      Exactly.

      Wilson would NOT sign an extension, not if the Seahawks offered to make him the highest paid QB in football again. Nope.

      And they can’t say that everything is great when there’s a chance that they move him this off season. The postgame recap of PHI vs. TB was how the Eagles have such a great core, they just need to fix the passing game. Not very subtle.

      There is a market for Wilson with a lot of potential picks from the likes of Philly and New York.

      The only thing holding things back is Carroll, who realizes he’s done without Wilson. Yet you would have thought he would have realized that going into the meeting with Allen, or that she would have asked.

      We may have been wrong about Carroll and Schneider not coming back…could we be wrong about Wilson not wanting another World War One type season. It’s only 1916 and Carroll assures us that victory is assured when we go over the top the next time. 🙂

  59. DC says:

    At this point I want Russ to force the issue and will cheer him on in his new team. I’d prefer him to stay but PCJS isn’t changing but will only be emboldened by this and double down of more of the same. If they went back to 2010-2012 version of themselves turning over every rock the. OK, but that’s doubtfuk

    • Matt says:

      This is exactly where I’m at.

    • GaiusMarius says:

      Yes, I want to win Super Bowls. That’s my goal.

      The shortest way to do that is new coaching and management with Wilson. The chances of that have dropped. so what is the fallback? Wilson forces his way out, we get picks. Carroll tanks even worse next year, which forces Allen’s hand (although perhaps still not if a sale is being prepped).

  60. Jerd says:

    I don’t buy tickets to watch Pete chew gum. I pay money to watch the most physically gifted humans on the planet play the greatest game with the highest stakes. I watch these college kids every year bust their asses to compete at the highest level and reach for that super bowl dream. Is Pete the guy that gives them the best opportunity? Is John bringing the necessary talent? Is ownership concerned at all with the fan experience? For my part, I love following these draftees and watching them grow and progress and become OUR guys. Right now the conductor is fucking up the symphony.

  61. Blitzy the Clown says:

    Damn. 49ers came to play today.

    As long as Seattle has a stake, the 49ers (and other NFCw teams) are my sworn enemy (in the context of football).

    But when we’re out of the running, I’m all for proving our division is the toughest in the League.

    I hope SF beats Dallas today.

  62. L80 says:

    Oh, it’s so much fun watching every other team from our division in the playoffs. Especially knowing we will have the same people in charge next year that got us exactly where we are today.

  63. Blitzy the Clown says:

    Anyone else watching the Nickelodeon call of the 49ers-Cowboys game?

    • Hawk Finn says:

      For all the teasing I did in advance of the game, it’s very well done. Great presentation.

      • Mr drucker in hooterville says:

        It is fun to watch. The girl is pretty good. I prefer her to the other lady announcers becaus3 she doesn’t try to convince us she is anexpert

  64. Trevor says:

    Russ may prefer the Saints or Raiders but I think the top 2 realistic suitors for him are the Giants and Eagles.

    Both teams have all the components to get a deal done.
    -Clear need at QB
    -Big Markets
    -Restless Fan Bases
    -Decent to good OL and WR talent with quality RB’s
    -A young QB to throw into the deal for the Hawks as a stop gap till they figure out what to do (Jones or Hurts)

    If the Hawks trade Russ which I think is about a 90% probability then I would be shocked if it is not to the Eagles or Giants.

    If they trade Russ then DK should also be on the block

    • Matt says:

      I think DK should be traded no matter what. He will absolutely be worth nothing near what he is going to get paid. And I’m sick of his drama.

      • Trevor says:

        I tend to agree. The talent is undeniable but will he ever put it all together.

        • Matt says:

          Unfortunately, nope. He will never be a natural catcher nor will he learn to high point. That’s what is keeping him from taking the next step. And I think those are skills that are hard to teach when you’re an adult. The baseball equivalent is like learning a change up. Hardly ever do you see guys develop “feel” skills when they lack it.

          Now if DK was 15 – yes, he could improve those.

        • Henry Taylor says:

          I disagree, even if we’re going to have a lesser QB, we should still be trying to pair him with the best supporting cast possible. Arguably it would be even more important.

          Plus you just have to look at how DK got on with Geno in the starting lineup, he was a really important part of the offense.

          This guy is one of the very few elite talents theyve drafted since 2012, and he’s very young. You keep those guys.

          • Matt says:

            Then Pete needs to adapt on Offense if he wants to pay $20M to DK and still have Lockett and Eskeridge on the roster.

            Paying DK, while maintaining our current scheme/philosophy would just highlight another stupid use of resources that doesn’t help the team win.

            • Henry Taylor says:

              Well yeah I dont disagree they should make better use of him, because I think he’s good.

      • SeattleLifer says:

        I could’nt agree more. DK is going to expect stupid money, like top three wr money but he is not an every game dominant reliable talent.

        All of the concerns of him coming out of college are present and real in his game. Poor short area/cutting abilities(see general lack of separation unless he just runs by somebody), drops, jump/contested ball limitations and some maturity concerns. None of these issues have been improved upon with any significance over his three years in the league.

        He’s a supreme physical talent that unfortunately has some significant holes in his game that keep him from dominance and consistency and they also are the types of things that are extremely difficult to overcome(and in the case of short area movement nigh impossible).

    • BA says:

      Generally agree, I’m of the opinion you only spend on WR once you’ve identified your franchise QB. Otherwise you end up building your team from the outside in and overspending on luxury positions like safety/LB/WR instead of the trenches.

    • Mr drucker in hooterville says:

      If they trade Russ, they should shed Wagner and Adams as well.

  65. Palatypus says:

    I met Derek Carr at the Senior Bowl Meet and Greet. I can confirm he smells of Old Spice Body Wash.

  66. Pepoandart says:

    So let’s assume all of this is true (not a big stretch). Hopefully Jody has instructed Pete and JS to work things out with Russ. Pete has been a master recruiter in the past maybe he can sell something Russ and make this work. If not and the Raiders are the option to trade Wilson, what’s your price. I’m in the keep Russ camp, but everyone has a price and it would have to be a kings ransom to part with Russ. Let’s say the Raiders offered Carr, 3 1st, 3 2nds and 3 3rds over three years would anyone here take it? I have to admit that I would seriously consider that kind offer.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Pete has nothing to offer Russ

      • Matt says:

        Yep. Furthermore, RW nor anyone else should believe Pete. At the first sign of trouble; he’s going back
        to micromanage Pete.

      • Peter says:

        He could offer to not say “the passes were there,” while fielding the bottom of the league rush attack and a soft as fleece defense…..

    • Peter says:

      I’d probably take it but they can keep carr. Carr is a guy. That’s it. Tge best part of a lot of this is that teas don’t have to go comoletely uts with offers if everyone knows Wilson wants to leave.

    • Scot04 says:

      The Raiders would never offer that much. No team would.
      Obviously we would take three 1sts, three 2nds, three 3rds & Carr.
      I thought the Adams trade was bad. To do that Vegas would have to not only be desperate, but totally inept.
      Try 2 1sts & Carr.
      Another reason you don’t want to trade Russ. The whole situation is just sad.

  67. Mac says:

    After thoroughly inspecting Seahawks fan media and Twitter, it is time to gather around the gaslight.
    Nothing to see here.
    #RunItBack
    #Non-story

    I’ve never seen sports fans so disillusioned. They can’t process a simple timeline, “RW finds out PC & JS are gonna runitback —> RW camp reports he’s looking to explore options”. Some fans argue about where RW leverage is, the true question should be if the Seahawks have the organizational strength to hold their team together. Players will pick sides and you risk tearing your team apart for the hubris of a 70 year old man and his accomplices.

  68. Jamie says:

    I don’t think the Russ trade drama will stop at all this off season. Gregg Bell from the TNT was on John Clayton’s show last weekend and put out a theory that makes a lot of sense, especially in the context of the db that is Mark Rodgers. In their last contract negotiations they’ve used Aaron Rodgers as a comp for Russ but with him likely winning a 2nd MVP and possibly a 2nd Super Bowl this year they would be losing that comp. Now he’s showing how much interest there is in from other teams to trade for Russ in lieu of a comparable QB. I would expect to see another list of teams that have little chance of winning a championship, already have a QB, or have no cap space (i.e. the Bears, Cowboys, and Saints last offseason). We’ve already heard a little of that from Jordan Schultz that he would waive his no trade for the Giants, Saints, or Broncos.

  69. GoHawks5151 says:

    I’ve been saying it all year. I don’t believe in Kellen Moore. All that talent and often in a rutt.

  70. uptop says:

    Niners have talent and a coach who knows how to use it. So jealous

  71. SeattleLifer says:

    I could’nt agree more. DK is going to expect stupid money, like top three wr money but he is not an every game dominant reliable talent.

    All of the concerns of him coming out of college are present and real in his game. Poor short area/cutting abilities(see general lack of separation unless he just runs by somebody), drops, jump/contested ball limitations and some maturity concerns. None of these issues have been improved upon with any significance over his three years in the league.

    He’s a supreme physical talent that unfortunately has some significant holes in his game that keep him from dominance and consistency and they also are the types of things that are extremely difficult to overcome(and in the case of short area movement nigh impossible).

    • SeattleLifer says:

      This was in response to DK posts above – not sure how it ended up where it is.

    • Henry Taylor says:

      DK has improved significantly since his rookie year. He just hasnt become Calvin Johnson.

      • SeattleLifer says:

        Most second round pick er’s with hall of fame quarterbacks throwing to them will ‘improve’ statistically their first couple of years. That was not my point, my post talked about how DK has not improved on his shortcomings so far.

        • Henry Taylor says:

          I didnt talk about statistics. He has improved in those things you mentioned.

          • SeattleLifer says:

            All I can say is we disagree. I continue to see drops, significant difficulty with jump balls/contested catches and most of separation coming from either running past people in a mostly straight line or boxing people out because of his large frame not much along the lines good curls, crisp double moves or sharp cuts that can shake/deceive cb’s.

            • bmseattle says:

              Did DK actually get worse with drops this year?
              Drops didn’t really stand out as an issue, from my recollection.

              I give DK a pass for this year.

              1. He was clearly playing hurt all season.
              2. I saw good effort still with blocking and route running, even when he wasn’t getting the ball.
              3. Russ missed him several times on what would have been huge plays. Connect on just a couple of those deep shots and DK’s stats would have looked much better.

              He may never be a guy who high points the ball, or runs precise routes, but he is still one of the most physically dominating WR in the league. One that defenses fear and need to gameplan against.
              I blame most of his issues this year on a QB who was out of sync, and an OC who did a poor job of calling plays for him.

              • SeattleLifer says:

                I’m not saying he’s bad or anything close to it, he is a beast of a wr with some crazy good god given attributes. I just don’t think he’s consistently dominant enough game in game out to be paying him a top three or better contract which he most definitely will be demanding. To me you pay that kind of money for someone who has no real holes in their game, is a consistent matchup problem for most any cb and can be a true go to that your qb can rely upon.

      • DC says:

        Look at his stats for his first 3 years vs Megatrons first 3 years….quite comparable

        • Peter says:

          It’s scary how good he could become and do what Kobe of the lakers did on offseason. Just work on one thing missing from his game every year. Maybe just work on getting his arms out. Or boxing out.

          Dk could be one of the very best yo do it if he could put it all together.

  72. Trevor says:

    Cowboys fans I know really believed this was their year. Not looking good. What does Jerry do after this collapse.

  73. Peppapig says:

    And Adams.

  74. ShowMeYourHawk says:

    Rob, what do Jody and Vulcan do if the Cowboys dump McCarthy and come sniffing around for Carroll? You think they make that move? Completely hypothetical but Jerry Jones is the type to go after what he wants, for good or ill….

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think there’s as much chance of that happening as Pete Carroll shaving his head

      • ShowMeYourHawk says:

        As Pete would gaslight, “So, you’re saying there’s a chance?”

      • Turp says:

        I enjoy the variety of analogies you create for “not gonna happen” and I’m pretty sure it’s a new one every time. If your content wasn’t so good, I’d come just for these replies…hah

      • Palatypus says:

        Rob Staton said, “I think there’s as much chance of that happening as Pete Carroll shaving his head.”

        Someone, please Photoshop this. Preferably, when he took off his shirt for DK Metcalf.

      • BruceN says:

        Now that’s funny!! Aside from the comic visual I would like to know who would make the decision or personnel calls in that relationship. Would never work.

  75. cha says:

    Having some Deja Vu…

    12 game division winner fattened up by a beating creampuffs? Check

    Hosting a playoff game at home? Check

    Playing a so-so quarterback with a thumb injury? Check

    Cannot stop the running game to save their lives? Check

    Opposition loses their stud DL for the bulk of the second half to injury? Check

    Head coach given a pass because ‘he couldn’t possibly envision a first round loss’ ? TBD

  76. no frickin clue says:

    So Pete is basically daring Russ to stage a holdout. That’s what it’s come to.

    • Pran says:

      Pete is a master manipulator( motivator ). He thinks he can treat Russ like fans and sell dreams..

  77. Timothy Burch says:

    PC and JS status quo…so far. That being the case RW under contract for 2 years regardless if he wants a trade. He is not going anywhere
    He hasn’t even asked for it yet. Another thing… his legacy ego wont let it be possible he even holds out regular season games. Only way RW goes anywhere aslong as Pete is in charge is if some team offers their next 2 years of draft picks and then some. Not gonna happen. Get settled in for another RW camp disgruntled but not outright asking for change and more front office hubris, cardboard cutouts. My only hope is the PS/JS do a good job with free agency acquisitions and a decent draft. Redo RW contract make him highest QB and meanwhile lower his cap hit to create more free agency dollars. But As Rob has so eloquently put it …their history has not been good for last five years. So what’s a Seahawks fan to do.

  78. Pran says:

    Raiders, Eagles, Pitts looking for a QB. There are so many good teams if Russ wants to explore..

  79. Big Mike says:

    Watching the creativity with which the Chiefs play offensive football is so awesome.

    Meanwhile, I heard Chris Simms state earlier this year that Seattle has the “simplest” route trees in the NFL.

  80. pob12 says:

    I’ve lost a lot of my enthusiasm for the Hawks over the past two seasons. They no longer feel like appointment viewing.

    Still, there’s reason to think they’re not far away. They finished 8th in DVOA, one spot ahead of GB and one spot behind KC. Unlike GB, the Hawks happened to play in the division with the 5th (LAR, 6th (SF) and 10th (Ari) best teams according to DVOA. A lot of the things that went wrong for the Hawks in ’21–2-5 in 1-score games, good on 1st/2nd down and then terrible on 3rd, QB missing time–tend to revert to the mean over time. The underlying stats were not that of a 7-10 team. A team Sea beat twice just advanced to the divisional round.

    Blowing things up would be exciting in the short term. We could speculate on coach/QB replacements and maybe potential Rd 1 draftees, but I can see the logic for running it back.

    • Denver Hawker says:

      I get where you’re coming from- stats can be comforting and give something to support the narrative that Pete expressed at the end of the season.

      But is that what your eyes told you while watching this team? Just a few bad luck plays away from competing for a SB?

      I didn’t see bad luck or injuries affect losses to good teams. I saw an average team beat up on bad teams. A team play inspired football when they had nothing to play for, and still lose to the Bears.

      I do think DVOA, PFF, etc, matter to an extent. It also shouldn’t take the course of an entire season to establish an identity, sort things out, or “not be a team you’d want to play right now” when the season is already over.

      • pob12 says:

        Like I said, they were uninspiring most of the year. They also had 4 wins vs. teams w/winning records. By my count, that’s the same # as the Rams. Sea controlled the majority of the game.in those 4 wins. They weren’t flukey. On top of that, the Hawks
        –Were an XP from beating Ten
        –Played without Russ, missed 2 FGs (one 50+) and still only lost to NO w/Jameis
        –Took the Steelers, another playoff team, to OT w/Geno at QB

        • Denver Hawker says:

          Dallas and New England were DVOA darlings and exited the playoffs quietly. Jerry was publicly despondent and BB had his future questioned. Pete gets a pass because of a couple missed kicks and losing 2 games with Russ out? That doesn’t make this team a SB contender. Nothing about this season felt like progress from 2020 much less showing any reason to believe they’ll contend next year with the same approach.

          • pob12 says:

            The Patriots lost to a team ranked ahead of them in DVOA. The Cowboys (#1) lost to the #6 team. Neither result should be a particular surprise.

        • Rob Staton says:

          Don’t put your back out trying too hard, Pob12

    • McZ says:

      If you study the Seahawks DVAO-ratings closer, they are driven by offense and special teams. It is Russell Wilson, Michael Dickson and Jason Myers driving those ratings.

      On the championship winning defensive side, they are #21. One can ask, what this rating is with Bwagz on an established downturn and Qandre Diggs in FA. This is a defense, that cannot get off the field.

      There is no reason for comfort.

      • pob12 says:

        Yep, I was surprised to see the offensive DVOA that high, especially bc I don’t think it adjusts for Wilson’s time lost to injury.

  81. Big Mike says:

    Been a really good day of football today because both the cowgirls and the stealers lost. The only thing that would’ve made it better would have been if the Seahawks had won a playoff game today but I guess you gotta make the playoffs to actually win one and even then you had better hope for a broken down old backup QB as your opponent.

  82. Ashish says:

    Was just thinking if Pete was in position of Pittsburgh or Bills Petr would have foot of the Pedal and given enough chance for opposition to come back. I feel i see too many issues with Pete philosophy all of sudden. May be I’m too critical.

  83. BobbyK says:

    Love how Pete says they’re in lock step behind closed doors and we’re too dumb to know Wilson isn’t happy.

    • Rob Staton says:

      It does insult our intelligence, somewhat, to claim everything is fine. We can see it isn’t.

      But likewise I kind of wish Wilson would s**t or get off the pot. Either hand in a trade request or get on with it.

  84. Leo says:

    As usual, I generally agree with your assessment of the overall situation. Maybe the only disagreement is with Penny. I totally understand the dilemma with him, but for me personally, I wouldn’t offer a big enough contract to be competitive with the other offers he’s received. Yes, he’s proven that he is capable of greatness, but the clearest thing we’ve learned about him over the four years he was with the Seahawks is that he cannot stay healthy. Carson is also capable of greatness, but he’s also in the same category as Penny. Maybe he’ll go on to have a great career with someone else, but I’m going to be really upset if the Seahawks give him a big contract. Plus, running backs generally have their biggest impact early in their career and it isn’t a highly prized position in the draft. I’d much rather seem them draft a good running back (or 2). And sorry you have to endure the stupid, pointless comments. I still think your blog is the best thing out there on the Seahawks and I hope you stay with it.

  85. no frickin clue says:

    I wonder if all this palace intrigue with Russ, the is-he-going-to-force-an-exit whispers, stifles free agent interest in coming here.

    I suspect not, and that the bigger deal is who offers the most guaranteed money, but figured worth mentioning. If we truly are ‘in every conversation’, then why is it that we apparently cannot close on premier free agents, for years now? Either the front office is deliberately eschewing the high-end talent, or it’s just coincidence and this is a small-sample issue.