Logan (#18) has more talent than production. It's an LSU thing.
I remember looking over the fast linebackers group last year. Lavonte David had outstanding tape. Mychal Kendricks’ closing speed was a blur. Zach Brown wasn’t very good on tape, but he had elite speed for his size. The one player that didn’t stand out at all was Bobby Wagner. I almost didn’t cover him that year. Yet when I watched Wagner, something in the back of my mind just screamed “Seahawks” to me. Trusting that instinct, I rated Wagner very highly for Seattle days before the 2012 draft for Seattle despite having him just 7th on my personal list.
What struck me about Wagner was how he played so conservatively, yet he had the tools to excel as a more aggressive player. When Seattle drafted him, I thought that he might be the Earl Thomas of our front seven. And that’s basically what he was- more of a protector than a playmaker- though he finished with a flurry of interceptions near the end of the season- including one that was infamously cancelled out by Earl Thomas.
Now it’s kind of dumb to talk about a stab in the dark that went right, much less try to build off of it. This story is really just an excuse to use a fun segue- that being how I’m getting this strange sense of certainty again. If there is a Bobby Wagner candidate for me this year, it’s Bennie Logan.
Like Wagner, Bennie Logan has some of the most uninspiring tape of any notable draft prospect this year. He posted weak statistics and even in his best games he never really dominated. Yet like Wagner, I have this nagging feeling in the back of my mind that Logan is going to be a Seahawk. Now I just have to figure out why.
I’ll get to the actual scouting report shortly, but the first thing I have to mention about Logan is that, like Sylvester Williams, his value comes from his athleticism and speed in a 300+ pound body. Logan moves like a 280 pound defensive tackle at 309. There was some hype for Logan pre-combine as he was expected to put on a show. Unfortunately for Logan, that didn’t really happen. He abstained from the 40 yard dash, and the rest of his measurements ranged from 50th to 75th percentile. It wasn’t a bad combine, but it wasn’t quite what people were expecting based on the athleticism he showed on tape. LSU’s pro-day starts later today and extends through Friday, so hopefully we’ll get some idea of Logan’s speed pretty soon.
Who knows what NFL big boards say, but in media circles it feels as if Logan’s draft stock has slowly drifted in recent months- from late 1st round to late 2nd round. If actual big boards reflect that decline, that obviously puts Logan into serious consideration at #56.
Logan has a lot of core strength and it shows both against the run and in the pass rush. This helps his case to Seattle even more, since the Seahawks biggest need is a run stuffing 3-tech that can also blossom into a quality pass rusher.
Logan had just two sacks and 5.5 tackles for loss last season on college football’s pro-bowl team of underachieving individuals. Sam Montgomery has the look of a 1st round pick physically, but didn’t work hard and didn’t produce. Barkevious Mingo can dart, but he struggled to dart into quarterbacks. When I watch Kevin Minter I see more mistakes than great plays. Lavar Edwards has intriguing measurables, but never really made his mark on that defense as a rotational player. Bennie Logan looks like a future NFL player, maybe a good one, but he didn’t produce.
The only big positive for Logan in terms of production are his tackle numbers. Playing next to Michael Brockers in 2011, Logan managed 57 tackles, a very high number for his position. He added 45 more last season. Tackles are a tricky stat, but having watched Logan, I interpret these numbers as a way of showing how good Logan is at remaining involved in plays and also how well he defends gaps. Logan only had five sacks the past two seasons, although consider that Brockers had just two sacks in his last two years. Brockers then posted a very respectable four sacks as a rookie in St. Louis.
A couple problems for Logan: He has good arm length with his 34″ arms but doesn’t really use them, typically going chest to chest with blockers much like Shariff Floyd does. As a result, Logan really struggles to break into the backfield. Rather than attempt to shed blocks, Logan tries to use leverage and a quick first step to power through blockers. If all you want is a guy that can push the pocket but not much else in the pass rush, Logan could be worth it- but he’s a long ways from being a star pass rusher. His other problem is that like Brandon Williams he is surprisingly weak against the run despite his size and strength. He typically gets blown back by double teams and rarely dominates against single run blocks. His habit of dropping his head for leverage can sometimes cause him to blow gap responsibility too. He has the talent to be very good against the run, but it will require some coaching up.
Logan has all the tools to be a successful all-around 3-tech in the NFL which is exactly what Seattle needs the most right now. He was awarded the number 18 jersey last season as recognition for being the hardest working member of the team, an LSU tradition that dates back to 2003. Logan hustles to the ball and plays smart- taking good angles and knowing when to reach up for batted passes. It’s hard to bet against a guy who pairs excellent tools with a great work ethic- even if his tape hardly flatters. He’s got his issues and truth be told, there are a lot of tackles I’d take over him. But like Wagner last year, something tells me that Seattle will like Bennie Logan a lot more than I do. Call it a hunch.
(note: Bennie Logan wore #93 in 2011)
I sure hope your wrong and this is NOT our pick. I liked Wagners tape last year, and saw speed and ability. He looked very good to me and much better then Kendricks who I didn’t like.
B. Logan I don’t like the tapes. I don’t like the speed and he’s constantly getting pushed back IMO. He’s got little to no production in the sack department and you can see why on tape. If we are going to draft a DT, then we need one that can apply constant pressure. I just don’t see it here.
I was not impressed with this video, and it gets worse looking at other tapes IMO too.
I did not rate B. Logan on my draft list. I dropped him off completely. Of course, that’s just my view.
But, I wouldn’t draft him and let somebody else take him, especially in the 2nd or 3rd.
Note: I like the guy we got last year better then Logan. He showed more on tape to me then him.
Appreciate the article though!
I assume you are talking about Howard, from Florida, as the player you liked better. Howard from the outset seemed unlikely to be the base down 3tech, and was more of a reach for a player like Michael Bennett or Jason Jones. Logan would be more of an attempt to target a base down 3tech that absorbs blockers at the line and lets the MLB and WIL clean up tackles. Any pass rush he could provide should be compared to Branch. Logan’s major “flaw” seems to be a lack of aggressive hand use, but a top 10 performer (among DL) in bench press and a 300 lb player who moves like he does certainly has the innate explosiveness to have destructive handplay, with coaching and work ethic. I think the team has good coaching. Sounds like this guy has the best work ethic on his team. To me, Logan + the Hawks = recipe for disaster (for opposing QBs). This guy looks like he could turn into a Henry Melton type interior lineman in two years time – that’s worth the 56th pick, and if you can get him in the third round, that would be a steal.
yeah, Howard was the guy I was refering too. I do understand your points about diff tech and what each would bring to the table. Good points. I was thinking more on a “general terms DT” and not so specific to what they do.
I don’t agree so much that you draft for a certain “tech” and rather the complete player at a possition.
Irvin has a “tech” – But, he’s not a complete player. And if he doesn’t improve he might never be a good player. (I have hope – Not saying he won’t be good. I think he will and can improve)
But, I’d rather draft a “complete” player. Something that doesn’t just ancor the line, but ancors it AND gives pass rush. The great players are those that do everything. Maybe Logan would work, and be a suitable 3 Tech, but IMO I don’t see that he’s a good player.
I see more failures on tape then good things. And and pick 54 I think that’s crazy talk.
He looks like a project at best – So this is why I compared him to Howard.
Plus, I also don’t agree so much we need a run clogger or even a 3tech. We just need a DT that can rush the QB. This is what we lack IMO. We have no inside pass rush. I’m assuming the outside has been fixed with our free agents and hopefully Clemmons and maybe even a better Irvin.
Plus, Howard has much better tools than Logan. Along with Dan Quinn coming back! He could develop this year into a Henry Melton type tackle (akin to what Kam Chancellor did)
Some good points “hawkfin” but i disagree with the one about not needing a run stuffer to clog up the middle. Beating the 9r’s is critical if we want the 12 man home field advantage. They are still primarily a run first team. We were way to vulnerable up the middle last year. With the additions of avril and bennett and the continued development of irvan we want to be putting teams into third and long as much as possible this year and imho the best way to do that is to greatly improve the run defence. I think that with bennett and howard and scruggs and whoever else the team adds to the mix thru the draft or thru f/a the potential for an interior pass rush is already here. What i dont see is that big imovable object that can get us to these specialists. If a hankins or a jenkins is avilable at 56 i would take him. I think drafting the ” potential” of logan is a wasted pick here. Id rather spend the pick on a big body or on a difference making player regardless of position, figuratively, the BPA. On another note continuing a thread from a previous post, im amazed at how John Simon compares to justin smith after reviewing js’s bio in hisdraft year. Very similar measurables, and nearly identical production. People wondered if he could play tackle at his size and that turned out pretty well didnt it. Just sayin…..
I think we agree actually. And yes, I DO like Jenkins. But, Jenkins also might be a power house to rush the passer too. He gives you maybe BOTH options, which was really my point. Not that we don’t need a run stuffer. But, we need one that can rush the gut too. We need a “stud”. That’s not Logan IMO.
Like you said, I think Logan is just “potential”. Jenkins is more the pick I’m interested in.
I also like S. Williams and Short to be that body that could do both aspects too.
Brandon Williams is the last option for this maybe (Maybe Jesse Williams)
After those guy’s, it seems to
As long as we have a run stuffing DT that requires double teams, and if he has any push at all they will have to double team him, that should free up room for our other pass rushers. I would like to see Hankins, Jenkins, or even Jesse Williams at the #56 spot.
As for 280-300 pound DTs with potential, that seems like 4th round territory to me.
I know Derek Stephens made the Henry Melton comp, but Melton was 40 pounds lighter than Logan when he was drafted and barring a revelatory 40 time from Logan he will end up much slower as well (4.65 time for Melton).
I’m not sure who I’d compare Logan to. He’s got the look of a future NFL player and he has a lot of room for improvement with plus athleticism and a great work ethic. To me- that is a recipe for a Seahawks pick.
I do agree with Hawkfin in terms of the tape though- it’s not that impressive. You can see the potential, but he’s got a lot of things to work on. Too many things, for me. But probably not to many for our FO. Our FO is always looking for players with untapped upside, and Logan is definitely one of those guys.
When I see Logan on tape he just seems so slow to react to the snap about 75% of the time. Sometimes he doesn’t even get more than a half of a step before he is catching the guard who actually fired out to block him. The other 25% he actually looks like he gets a pretty good jump but I wonder if it is just because he has rope-a-doped the gaurd into not expecting much. He does seem to anchor pretty well put I don’t see his supposed athleticism come through in games very often.
I did come across a DT who had a very Seahawky pro day though. Brian Arnfelt from Northwestern, 6’5″ 302lbs., 4.83 40YD and 38 reps bench press. I don’t know anything else about the guy but that kind of work out puts him on the radar for the later rounds. Maybe even a move to O-Line.
i really like logan’s footwork/footspeed. One thing to remember when looking at his measurables is that he is a 3 tech and his combine numbers are compared to everyone from NT to pass rush DL (3-4 OLB). Yes he is way slower than Dion Jordan, but he is probably top 5 in 20 yards short shuttle and 3 cone drill among players over 280 lbs, and I think that speed does show up on tape when he plays agressively (see below).
There’s an odd mix of a guy with slightly longish legs for an interior lineman, but he takes shorter quicker steps, and it gives him a good turn radius at his size and speed. The way he uses his legs reminds me a lot of some very successful interior players (specifically thought of Warren Sapp when I was watching Logan below the waist). One of the things I really like is that he is almost always on his feet – a player who gets knocked down a lot in college is sure to be a disappointment in the pros – showing a very solid base and good balance.
His upper body work is not impressive. It’s almost as if he doesn’t know he can use his arms against OL who are trying to block him. But he does tip a surprising number of balls in the tape above and in the 2012 Ole Miss game, even if they end up being completions.
He looks explosive off the line when there is no back in the backfield, but is more conservative when it’s a running look. I was watching some of his 2012 tape against Ole Miss, and he lines up half the time at 1 tech and half the time at 3 tech. He looks like he can anchor fairly well against a good college OL double team, but not overwhelm it very often.
With what he shows in his tape, I see him as rotational depth in year 1. His handwork needs serious development; my guess is this is a guy who didn’t have to ever work on hand play because he beat people with his remarkable size/speed/balance combination. With a year of NFL training room work and a year of good DL coaching and martial arts training, this guy could be a terror at the 3tech position. Prototypical size/speed/balance + best work ethic on LSU football team? Sign me up. We will all be “meh” on draft day, but in year 2, we’ll be drooling more over the DL than the LoB.
Was he mostly a 1-tech at LSU? Looks awful when the guard and center double team him. Seems like he’d be best as a 3-tech.
This is a guy I keep coming back for #56 on the basis of potential.
It seems like Sly Williams will be gone by the time Seattle is on the clock, leaving him and Hughes as likely targets. Of the two, I would prefer Hughes based on how he looked at the senior bowl when he was lined up against D1 prospects. Picking Logan would not surprise or disappoint me, as I think our new DC has a great grasp on what is available in the SEC due to spending the last two years down there.
Most people think Hughes will probably be a 4th or 5th round pick, but we’ll see.
I think the two “frontrunners” at #56 for DT are Bennie Logan and Brandon Williams, assuming that Kawann Short and Sly Williams are both gone by then.
Ya, it seems like bad grades in school and getting into fights has really hurt his draft grade. However, I feel he is a betterprospect for this defense than the other two players named. He has the size, strength, and get-off to play 3T and backup (and eventually replace) Big Red.
Assuming he was a target, I wonder if PCJS would chance trading back to the top of the 3rd round to select him and additionally pick up a 4th round pick.
The more I look at this draft, the more I think that the combination of value and likely players available in the 3rd to 4th round range are the real heart of this draft. I would love for the Seahawks to get more ammo in that pocket.
Also, is it just me, or does Kawaan Short seem to have a game eerily similar to Devon Still? Every time I watch tape I can’t shake that thought from my mind. Either way, I don’t see him as a Seahawks. I guess we’ll know soon enough.
I think the concept of drafting a 3T will be moot in a few days in light of the news out of Oakland. They just cut Tommy Kelly. He’s a better version of Alan Branch and I think Seattle will be first in line to sign him at ~$4 million a year. It’s pretty amazing that the Raiders were so awful and they just let four of their DL players go, all of whom were pretty good (Seymour, Shaugnessy, Kelly, Bryant). Who in the heck is left on that roster that’s capable of playing football? Yikes.
Well they’re about to have Jadeveon Clowney in 13 months, so there’s that.
lol.
Hmmm can’t agree with you Sam about Kelly being a better version of Branch. Certainly not now. He’s had maybe 2 good (not great) seasons since he came into the League (2010 and 2011) and that was mostly due to the play of Seymour at left DT. Moreover, Kelly had a pretty crappy 2012 season (much like his early years), and it’s reasonable to expect that won’t change going forward considering he’s 32 years old.
I wonder if the Hawks FO will listen to any of the coaches when it comes to certain prospects
we signed Travis jones (D-line Coach) isnt he from LSU? i wonder if his input would be considered?
I really cant wait for the draft, im soo excited, especially with the Rumors of the Hawks finding a trade partner for Flynn, maybe sign Josh Johnson and draft a late RD QB (with Read Option Potential)
Josh Johnson already signed with the Bengals.
Apparently Flynn is being traded to the Raiders according to Ian Furness on his show, no details have been released yet though.
To the Raiders?? Well then, I’ll expect nothing less than a 2nd.
Isn’t he just touting the idea rather than reporting it?
I dont know, hes gonna talk to one of the Reporters down there in Oakland so we will see i guess. Sorry for getting everyone excited, i was reading what everyone was saying on another blog about the news.
According to James Arcellana of silverandblackpride.com, this is as likely to be a negotiation ploy on the part of the Raiders to get Palmer to reconsider his unwillingness to restructure his contract as anything. Aside from the fact that replacing Palmer with Flynn doesn’t really save them much $$, OAK is without R2 and R5 picks in this year’s draft, and thus would be unlikely to part with any more.
If Oakland do a deal it’d almost certainly be nothing more than a R6-7 then… or a conditional 2014 pick. Just seems unlikely to me given they’re in a major rebuild.
Another comparison to Wagner may be Logan’s team-first, high character attitude. Wagner was always assignment-correct at Utah State, and was a key leader on the team. A guy I knew in their strength program said that if one was to abandon them in the wilderness, Wagner and Turbin would find a way back to the team HQ, and on-time (he wasn’t sure about most D-I players’ ability to take care of themselves). Smart and responsible–that’s an underrated aspect that the Seahawks appear to value more often than not.
I’m OK with Bennie Logan, I’ve kind of liked him, but I kinda thought he was always about a late 2nd round prospect at best.
I wrote a top 10 list of players I like the least in this draft (somewhere else) and Bennie Logan was on it. I always thought it was a joke a few months back when people said he was a fringe 1st round guy. I’d grade him in the 4th, personally.
I may not be his biggest fan, but he does seem to fit the profile too well to ignore. If Seattle takes him I’d feel optimistic that they could make me look like a fool for undervaluing him, just like they did with Wagner.