Here’s my deal with Brandon Coleman: What makes him so different from Dontari Poe? Yeah, he’s a phenomenal athlete, but if you can’t dominate college players, why would anyone think you are going to dominate guys who are much better than them?
Coleman has 2 100+ yard receiving games in his entire career. Calvin Johnson had 7 in his junior year alone. And CJ was in a better conference and also played with a poor quarterback. Comparing the two seems fairly silly to me.
I understand that he’s got more talent than just about everyone in college, but that only goes so far. I think the list of guys who have talent but don’t dominate college ball and succeed in the NFL is very short, while the list of busts is quite long. Look at pretty much any top NFL star and they dominated in college. Megatron did. Fitz did. AJ Green did.
Then look at guys who get drafted based on their “potential”. Darrius-Heyward Bey, Tedd Ginn, Matt Jones, Troy Williamson. None of them had more than 835 yards receiving in a season in college. And they’re all busts. Coleman is on pace for about 700 yards being his career high. If you can’t even dominate Big East corners, why would you suddenly dominate the Niner’s corners?
Bottom line for me: Anyone drafted in the first round should not only look the part but play the part in college. That goes doubly so for a top 10 pick. I wouldn’t touch Coleman at the top of the draft if he comes out this year just like I wouldn’t have taken Poe high last year.
Michael
One thing you have to remember is that Coleman is playing only his second year of college football, and that is why it would be a surprise to many if he did come out in this draft. You are correct that he has not completely dominated in college… Yet. Most players are not a finished product in their sophomore year.
Take a look at what these receivers did in their second college season:
All of the above went on to play at least one more season of college ball before being picked in the first round of their respective NFL drafts.
Brandon Coleman is on pace for : 717 yds 10 TD’s as a RS Soph
If Coleman is there for the ‘Hawks in the late teens or 20’s this year, I would be dissappointed by any pick but him.
Brendan Scolari
Is he only a redshirt sophomore? ESPN has him listed as a junior. I was wondering what happened his freshman season.
I almost put it at the end of my post, and I guess I should have, but obviously if he comes back next year and dominates that changes things. If he comes out this this year though, I don’t think I’d take him in the top 25 at least.
John
This is totally fair, and we shouldn’t expect him to come out. But the thing is, Seattle really doesn’t have that player that’s going to draw coverage. Rice is being paid like he is, but isn’t, and Tate is too inconsistent still in my opinion. Seattle needs a receiver to draw coverage. I’m not convinced that anyone on their roster can do that. Coleman has the physical tools, much like DT coming out, to do it. And Demariyous Thomas, who is turning into a legit number 1, was extremely raw prospect coming out. G Tech being a pretty terrible place to rack up yards as a receiver. Let’s also keep in mind, that Tate is not particularly polished either (poor route running anyone?) but has put up good numbers this season with Wilson at QB. I think Wilson would really help Coleman given his attention to detail, much like Manning has helped Thomas. (Not to compare Wilson to Manning). Let’s also keep in mind that Blackmon and Crabtree and others, have been highly touted WRs coming out and haven’t lived up the hype. So really, receiver is a crap shoot. Let’s not forget Braylon Edwards was a first rd. pick back in the day.
So, I know I rambled, but Coleman is worth the flyer, because he is exactly what Seattle needs. Maybe not yet, but if he develops to just a fraction of his potential, he will draw coverage and really open things up for Rice, Tate etc.
A lot of the WR names that are being thrown around here have had one thing in common immaturity. Blackmon and Crabtree were in pass happy schemes in collage and Edwards was a best in college and his first few years in the pros. But he’s finding out what a lot of talented WR’s have over the years, you have to condition and work on your craft because everyone has talent in the pros. But lets not forget Blackmons a rook with no QB and Crabtree has dominated over Patrick Peterson the last 3 times they have played each other. That shows he has the talent but if he cant do it on a consistent basis that shows immaturity.
Michael
Wow, that shot Barkley just took was pretty awesome…
A. Simmons
Another cautionary tale as to why you should not wait to go to the NFL when your stock is high. Barkley probably would have been the third QB off the board last year. Now he’ll be lucky to be a last first round pick.
This brings up the Southern Cal(area) QB discussion with all of Sanchez’s struggles this year. With very thin talent on the offensive side of the ball Sanchez have been very exposed. I think one of the better things that acquiring Tebow did was get Sanchez in the weight room in the off-season and helped him focus. Its hard to say what the positive effects the Tebow experiment would have on a healthy Jets team. But I digress, Sanchez and Barkley are very similar in talent, stature ect. He has ton of talent around him but not dominating and without having top-self physical talent, it might be better for him to go in round 2 much like the Andy Dalton. I’m sure he’s a great character guy but so is Tebow.
John
I have been a very big anti-Barkley guy, not because I don’t like the guy, but because I think he is a very limited player. He’s playing on an incredibly talented team, and still has 4 losses. All that said, I feel bad for him, and I really hope that report about having a separated shoulder is false. He is the type of player that could really luck out though, in that he can end up on a good team with an aging starter. Heck, maybe Philly takes him now that Vick experiment is done, and Foles really looks meh to me. Sure he won’t have the best line, but Shady in the background, Celek, Jackson etc. to throw too emulates the weapons he had in college. This injury could be a blessing in disguise and might put him in the best chance to succeed.
All that said, I still don’t believe he’ll ever be a legit starter. But this is just really sad for a guy that stayed to end his collegiate career on a high note. You never wanna see that. Best wishes to the guy.
I agree that Barkley can win. But what he has to show he can do maximize is that hes a smart player. the guy that doesn’t throw 3 ints in a rivalry game. What you said there about Phili taking him in the second round sounds very interesting and possible to me. The next regime will have no ties to Foles though he has talent, Barkley in Rnd 2 would be ideal and really fun in my mind.
With UCLA with the win today I’d like your thoughts on Anthony Barr Rob, or anyone for that matter. The kid played on O last year and this year at LB has 10 sacks. True Jr, 6’4″ 230 is what he’s listed at. I’m impressed by a first year starter on D that can do that in a solid conference like the PAC12 at LB.
MJ
Was thinking the same thing. Intriguing player.
Michael
Was that the guy that demolished Barkley on that sack? I would like to hear more about him too.
No kidding, I keep wanting to put him in round 3 due to his size. Still cant put him round one, but I really doubt he’s getting out of rnd 2.
MJ
Agreed. No way he gets out of R2. Way too explosive and actually a really polished WR. If he was 5’11”, no doubt in my mind he goes in the 20s
Michael
Is the difference between 5’9″ and 5’11” that big of a deal for a WR? EIther way the guy is gonna rely on speed and elusiveness rather than size. When is the last time you saw a jump ball thrown to Percy Harvin? Would he be any less effective at 5’9″ than he is now?
To me his height isn’t great but Steve Smith and others have been dominant in the NFL at 5’9″. I’m more worried about the small frame only 170 or so lbs.
Harvin is really a different player then a lot of WR in the pros. He’s very much a RB/WR. But if you notice how the Hawks have been using Tate its somewhat similar to how Harvin is used, one thing Tate has on him is Tate can win most jump ball situations.
MJ
I’d say it’s a big enough difference where it makes him unable to fill a traditional role. Steve Smith is an outlier and he’s actually kind of a long limbed guy for being short. I love Austin, and hope he slips in the draft to the Hawks.
Michael
That would be exciting is his size let the ‘Hawks scoop him up in the 3rd round, but I have a hard time seeing him fall quite that far. That is about where I would want him. At the very least he could replace Leon as the return specialist.
AlaskaHawk
Tavon Austin has good hands! Third round sounds right because of his size.
AlaskaHawk
Stanford beats Oregon with excellent team effort and climbs on top of the pac 12. I wasn’t that impressed by Stanford’s tight ends. More impressed with their offensive and defensive line. The secondary on both teams played pretty well. It’s worth a look at Stanford for future draft picks!
MJ
Question, Rob:
There have been some ESPN articles about Flynn being shopped in the off-season. I wouldn’t expect much in return, but if that did happen, who do you like as a mid-late round QB that could develop as a backup?
My first thought is Matt Scott from AZ. He has a pretty awesome skill set, but limited experience in a goofy offense. Could be a guy that could net you some picks down the road or become a worthy backup, strictly because he does have a really nice physical skill set.
Here’s my deal with Brandon Coleman: What makes him so different from Dontari Poe? Yeah, he’s a phenomenal athlete, but if you can’t dominate college players, why would anyone think you are going to dominate guys who are much better than them?
Coleman has 2 100+ yard receiving games in his entire career. Calvin Johnson had 7 in his junior year alone. And CJ was in a better conference and also played with a poor quarterback. Comparing the two seems fairly silly to me.
I understand that he’s got more talent than just about everyone in college, but that only goes so far. I think the list of guys who have talent but don’t dominate college ball and succeed in the NFL is very short, while the list of busts is quite long. Look at pretty much any top NFL star and they dominated in college. Megatron did. Fitz did. AJ Green did.
Then look at guys who get drafted based on their “potential”. Darrius-Heyward Bey, Tedd Ginn, Matt Jones, Troy Williamson. None of them had more than 835 yards receiving in a season in college. And they’re all busts. Coleman is on pace for about 700 yards being his career high. If you can’t even dominate Big East corners, why would you suddenly dominate the Niner’s corners?
Bottom line for me: Anyone drafted in the first round should not only look the part but play the part in college. That goes doubly so for a top 10 pick. I wouldn’t touch Coleman at the top of the draft if he comes out this year just like I wouldn’t have taken Poe high last year.
One thing you have to remember is that Coleman is playing only his second year of college football, and that is why it would be a surprise to many if he did come out in this draft. You are correct that he has not completely dominated in college… Yet. Most players are not a finished product in their sophomore year.
Take a look at what these receivers did in their second college season:
Roddy White: 580 yds 3 TD’s
Julio Jones: 596 yds 4 TD’s
A.J. Green: 880 yds 6 TD’s
Demaryius Thomas: 627 yds 3 TD’s
Dwayne Bowe: 597 yds 5 TD’s
All of the above went on to play at least one more season of college ball before being picked in the first round of their respective NFL drafts.
Brandon Coleman is on pace for : 717 yds 10 TD’s as a RS Soph
If Coleman is there for the ‘Hawks in the late teens or 20’s this year, I would be dissappointed by any pick but him.
Is he only a redshirt sophomore? ESPN has him listed as a junior. I was wondering what happened his freshman season.
I almost put it at the end of my post, and I guess I should have, but obviously if he comes back next year and dominates that changes things. If he comes out this this year though, I don’t think I’d take him in the top 25 at least.
This is totally fair, and we shouldn’t expect him to come out. But the thing is, Seattle really doesn’t have that player that’s going to draw coverage. Rice is being paid like he is, but isn’t, and Tate is too inconsistent still in my opinion. Seattle needs a receiver to draw coverage. I’m not convinced that anyone on their roster can do that. Coleman has the physical tools, much like DT coming out, to do it. And Demariyous Thomas, who is turning into a legit number 1, was extremely raw prospect coming out. G Tech being a pretty terrible place to rack up yards as a receiver. Let’s also keep in mind, that Tate is not particularly polished either (poor route running anyone?) but has put up good numbers this season with Wilson at QB. I think Wilson would really help Coleman given his attention to detail, much like Manning has helped Thomas. (Not to compare Wilson to Manning). Let’s also keep in mind that Blackmon and Crabtree and others, have been highly touted WRs coming out and haven’t lived up the hype. So really, receiver is a crap shoot. Let’s not forget Braylon Edwards was a first rd. pick back in the day.
So, I know I rambled, but Coleman is worth the flyer, because he is exactly what Seattle needs. Maybe not yet, but if he develops to just a fraction of his potential, he will draw coverage and really open things up for Rice, Tate etc.
A lot of the WR names that are being thrown around here have had one thing in common immaturity. Blackmon and Crabtree were in pass happy schemes in collage and Edwards was a best in college and his first few years in the pros. But he’s finding out what a lot of talented WR’s have over the years, you have to condition and work on your craft because everyone has talent in the pros. But lets not forget Blackmons a rook with no QB and Crabtree has dominated over Patrick Peterson the last 3 times they have played each other. That shows he has the talent but if he cant do it on a consistent basis that shows immaturity.
Wow, that shot Barkley just took was pretty awesome…
Another cautionary tale as to why you should not wait to go to the NFL when your stock is high. Barkley probably would have been the third QB off the board last year. Now he’ll be lucky to be a last first round pick.
This brings up the Southern Cal(area) QB discussion with all of Sanchez’s struggles this year. With very thin talent on the offensive side of the ball Sanchez have been very exposed. I think one of the better things that acquiring Tebow did was get Sanchez in the weight room in the off-season and helped him focus. Its hard to say what the positive effects the Tebow experiment would have on a healthy Jets team. But I digress, Sanchez and Barkley are very similar in talent, stature ect. He has ton of talent around him but not dominating and without having top-self physical talent, it might be better for him to go in round 2 much like the Andy Dalton. I’m sure he’s a great character guy but so is Tebow.
I have been a very big anti-Barkley guy, not because I don’t like the guy, but because I think he is a very limited player. He’s playing on an incredibly talented team, and still has 4 losses. All that said, I feel bad for him, and I really hope that report about having a separated shoulder is false. He is the type of player that could really luck out though, in that he can end up on a good team with an aging starter. Heck, maybe Philly takes him now that Vick experiment is done, and Foles really looks meh to me. Sure he won’t have the best line, but Shady in the background, Celek, Jackson etc. to throw too emulates the weapons he had in college. This injury could be a blessing in disguise and might put him in the best chance to succeed.
All that said, I still don’t believe he’ll ever be a legit starter. But this is just really sad for a guy that stayed to end his collegiate career on a high note. You never wanna see that. Best wishes to the guy.
I agree that Barkley can win. But what he has to show he can do maximize is that hes a smart player. the guy that doesn’t throw 3 ints in a rivalry game. What you said there about Phili taking him in the second round sounds very interesting and possible to me. The next regime will have no ties to Foles though he has talent, Barkley in Rnd 2 would be ideal and really fun in my mind.
With UCLA with the win today I’d like your thoughts on Anthony Barr Rob, or anyone for that matter. The kid played on O last year and this year at LB has 10 sacks. True Jr, 6’4″ 230 is what he’s listed at. I’m impressed by a first year starter on D that can do that in a solid conference like the PAC12 at LB.
Was thinking the same thing. Intriguing player.
Was that the guy that demolished Barkley on that sack? I would like to hear more about him too.
Tavon Austin is going bananas today. Unreal.
No kidding, I keep wanting to put him in round 3 due to his size. Still cant put him round one, but I really doubt he’s getting out of rnd 2.
Agreed. No way he gets out of R2. Way too explosive and actually a really polished WR. If he was 5’11”, no doubt in my mind he goes in the 20s
Is the difference between 5’9″ and 5’11” that big of a deal for a WR? EIther way the guy is gonna rely on speed and elusiveness rather than size. When is the last time you saw a jump ball thrown to Percy Harvin? Would he be any less effective at 5’9″ than he is now?
To me his height isn’t great but Steve Smith and others have been dominant in the NFL at 5’9″. I’m more worried about the small frame only 170 or so lbs.
Harvin is really a different player then a lot of WR in the pros. He’s very much a RB/WR. But if you notice how the Hawks have been using Tate its somewhat similar to how Harvin is used, one thing Tate has on him is Tate can win most jump ball situations.
I’d say it’s a big enough difference where it makes him unable to fill a traditional role. Steve Smith is an outlier and he’s actually kind of a long limbed guy for being short. I love Austin, and hope he slips in the draft to the Hawks.
That would be exciting is his size let the ‘Hawks scoop him up in the 3rd round, but I have a hard time seeing him fall quite that far. That is about where I would want him. At the very least he could replace Leon as the return specialist.
Tavon Austin has good hands! Third round sounds right because of his size.
Stanford beats Oregon with excellent team effort and climbs on top of the pac 12. I wasn’t that impressed by Stanford’s tight ends. More impressed with their offensive and defensive line. The secondary on both teams played pretty well. It’s worth a look at Stanford for future draft picks!
Question, Rob:
There have been some ESPN articles about Flynn being shopped in the off-season. I wouldn’t expect much in return, but if that did happen, who do you like as a mid-late round QB that could develop as a backup?
My first thought is Matt Scott from AZ. He has a pretty awesome skill set, but limited experience in a goofy offense. Could be a guy that could net you some picks down the road or become a worthy backup, strictly because he does have a really nice physical skill set.
I can’t see Flynn moving on, the value isn’t there. If they have to draft another QB in the mid rounds I’d probably plump for David Fales at San Jose.