Derek Stingley is an exceptional talent
What the Seahawks do at cornerback is an interesting talking point.
For years they’ve preferred to wait until day three of the draft to get ‘their guys’. There was a lot of early success doing this but more recently, they’ve struggled to add starting talent. Hopefully Tre Brown is going to be a welcome return to form, if he recovers fully from injury.
Speaking to Coach Jim Leavitt recently (listen to the interview here) he highlighted the importance of talent at cornerback within the 3-4 scheme. If Seattle wants to be aggressive against the pass and the run by playing seven in the box most of the time, it’ll put a degree of stress on the secondary.
Leavitt said it was crucial to have good safety play and the Seahawks have invested significantly at the position. The corners also need to be able to stick in man and can be somewhat isolated.
If the Seahawks head in this direction schematically, the old adage of ‘not getting beat over the top’ won’t be enough.
It makes you wonder whether they’ll place a greater premium on the position.
Part of the projection process is working out what is actually available. I know a lot of people think the Seahawks are going to take a left tackle or quarterback at #9. The options are simply not very good. It’d be a huge reach for any of the QB’s and players like Charles Cross (often paired with Seattle) are just overrated. He doesn’t have the size, athleticism or explosive traits the Seahawks have sought.
I feel pretty comfortable based on my own draft work and consulting others who have far more experience than I do, that the top of the board is going to be focused on pass rushers. Aidan Hutchinson, Travon Walker, Kayvon Thibodeaux and Jermaine Johnson will go quickly.
Evan Neal and Ikem Ekwonu will also both be drafted early (probably to play guard).
Then there are two cornerbacks — Sauce Gardner and Derek Stingley. Some think Stingley will last into the teens after a difficult last two years with injury and some underwhelming tape as LSU collapsed as a team.
We should remember we’re only two years removed from Stingley looking like the future at cornerback in the NFL. He’s got a pro-day in April where he’ll likely match his SPARQ performance of a 4.30 forty and a 42 inch vertical.
Here he is covering Ja’Marr Chase in practise at LSU:
According to PFF, here are the top-graded seasons by a LSU defender since 2014:
Derek Stingley (2019) – 91.7
Jamal Adams (2016) – 91.4
Tre’Davious White (2016) – 90.2
Devin White (2018) – 90.0
If the Titans are willing to take Caleb Farley at #22 overall a year ago with all of his significant injury question marks — I doubt Stingley is going to last as long as some are saying. Cornerback is a position of supreme need and priority. Multiple teams are desperate at corner — the lack of talent is fairly close to the dearth of good left tackles available.
Six cornerbacks went in the top-33 picks last year for a reason.
I’m also unsure why everyone is suddenly so low on Stingley. His tape in 2020 and 2021 is described as ‘good not great’ in his NFL.com profile. I would’ve thought a player with two years of good tape on a miserable team, plus a year of elite tape on a great team, would deserve the benefit of the doubt?
Nobody talks about Aidan Hutchinson’s injury issues at Michigan. Yet for Stingley, it seems enough to kick him down the board.
It’s one of the more confusing ‘draft media’ quibbles this year.
If the Seahawks wanted a player with the talent-level to shut down elite receivers on an island, allowing their front seven to fly to the ball, he would be an outstanding option.
Provided he stays healthy, which is no guarantee with any player, I think there’s a reasonable chance he will be a Stephon Gilmore-level talent — with a shot to be even better.
Micah Parsons fell to pick #12 a year ago due to character concerns and emerged as a star in his rookie season. It won’t be a surprise if something similar happens with Stingley.
He also has strong NFL bloodlines:
I think Stingley is CB1 in this class. A lot of others think Sauce Gardner is the best player at any position but I don’t agree.
I think there’s still a lot to like with Gardner. He has 4.4 speed, great length, he mixes confidence and cockiness in the right kind of way. He flashes star quality but with a degree of self-made-man awareness. Fans will like him, as will coaches. He has swagger and you could imagine him being a central part of a defensive rebuild.
His body-type has been described as ‘classic Seahawks’. That’s true — although he is very skinny and he genuinely looks like the ‘praying mantis’ his team mates refer to him as. There are some technique issues that might get shown up a little more against the top receivers. He’s grabby too — and lacks the natural suddenness of Stingley.
Even so — he will almost certainly go in the top-12 and could be a top-five selection in a class lacking clear and obvious blue-chippers.
Gardner is set for an official visit to the Seahawks (among others). These visits have been indicative of serious interest in the past.
All of the ‘met at the combine’ stuff isn’t worth paying attention to. Everyone meets with everyone there. The players you bring into your building to see if they fit in — those are the meetings to raise an eyebrow at.
It suggests the Seahawks are well on top of what could happen at #9.
Regulars to this blog know I want a great pass rusher. That’s Plan A. If one of Johnson or Thibodeaux lasted to the Seahawks, he should be the pick.
Increasingly though, I think it’s likely they’ll be gone. It’s going to take the Panthers and Falcons making obscene quarterback picks at #6 or #8 — or people preferring Gardner or Stingley over the pass rushers — to make it a reality.
I know what some will say. The quarterbacks always go early.
Let’s not forget that in 2013, the first QB to leave the board was E.J. Manuel at #16. I’d compare the 2022 class of QB’s to the 2013 class. It’s not good, despite all of the recent hype generated by throwing sessions in shorts at the combine and pro-day circuit.
As Scot McCloughan told us last week — three quarterbacks will go in round one and all three deserve third round grades.
The mid-teens or early 20’s area is where I would expect the quarterbacks to start coming off the board.
Keep this in mind — the superior 2023 quarterback class will 100% have an impact. Pete Carroll hinted at it last week, saying their huge amount of stock next year will influence their decision making in this draft. The Giants are trying to sell #5 or #7 for a first next year — probably to position themselves for a QB.
Certain teams such as Pittsburgh will be minded to find a QB for the future now. They’re not planning to be bad in 2022 and they don’t have extra draft stock in 2023. Teams embracing a longer build will definitely be thinking of the options next year.
Scott Fitterer knows Matt Rhule is not for long in Carolina. A desperate QB pick at #6 (their only pick in the first three rounds) is unlikely. The Falcons are embracing a rebuild after whiffing on Deshaun Watson. They might take a shot on a quarterback on day two — but #8? Remember — their new GM is big on ‘best player available’. It’s how he justified taking Kyle Pitts a year ago instead of a quarterback.
If the pass rushers are gone at #9 — it makes absolute sense to look at Gardner or Stingley. In that position, they’ll give you the best chance to come out of this draft with a stud player. And that’s what Seattle needs.
It really is as simple as this — they need a foundational building block. If the pass rush option isn’t there, the best way to find one in this specific draft class is to look at cornerback.
You could also perhaps include Devante Wyatt and Jordan Davis, purely because of their outstanding physical profiles. Yet the Seahawks have loaded up their defensive front already.
Another ‘tell’ in terms of their possible plan could be how they’ve approached free agency.
D.J. Reed called Seattle’s contract offer ‘insulting’ then signed a deal worth $11m a year with the Jets. The #9 pick a year ago, Patrick Surtain, signed a deal worth just $5.2m a year.
Are the Seahawks anticipating taking a corner at #9? And thus, did they offer Reed a comparable contract to the #9 pick? It’s half as much as the deal he got in New York, which would explain Reed’s disdain for the offer. It’s possible the team already had a good feeling they’d be drafting a cornerback early — and the price that comes with that — so they felt little need to go any higher for Reed.
Not only that — their ‘hedge’ signing at pass rusher (Uchenna Nwosu) is costing $9.5m a year for two years. Their hedge at cornerback (Artie Burns) signed a $2m contract for one season.
Little things like that can help you piece together the puzzle.
And while they haven’t signed anyone — hedge or otherwise — at offensive tackle, Carroll revealed his urgency to address that area when he spoke to KJR last week. They do have some money to play with in free agency and are likely working to resolve this as a priority before the draft — with the likes of Duane Brown, Eric Fisher, Darryl Williams and Brandon Shell possibly on the radar.
It does feel like everything is being geared towards creating a new defense. The coaching changes, the scheme tweaks. Now the only thing left is the personnel. Jake Heaps revealed on 710 Seattle Sports that Sean Desai had been convinced to come to the Seahawks on the proviso that key personnel additions were coming. It’s hard to imagine Seattle had Nwosu, Quinton Jefferson and Shelby Harris as their sales pitch.
Giving Desai a fantastic corner prospect to manage in the secondary would make sense and justify his faith in joining the team. Stingley was once seen as the fabled ‘generational talent’. Gardner is an emerging talent. Again — if the top pass rushers are gone, they likely give you the best chance to draft a future all-pro.
The wildcard option might be Trent McDuffie. He’s Lance Zierlein’s #7 overall prospect and generally is being mocked in the mid-first round. I think he’s a terrific player but the type you almost want playing up and around the line — using his outstanding quickness and instincts as a dynamic nickel or hybrid DB. He can play outside but I like the idea of him more as a read/react type. McDuffie also has tremendous character and he’ll be a safe pick. I’m just not sure he’ll be an all-pro outside corner within four years.
What would it mean for the pass rush if they take a corner at #9? That’s a difficult one to work out. There’s certainly enough depth that someone appealing might be there at #40. It’s also possible we’ll see a huge rush on the position in round one — with as many as nine coming off the board before Seattle’s second round picks.
I’ve been assuming Sam Williams might be there at #40 and #41. After an impressive combine and pro-day, it seems like there’s sufficient buzz for him in round one. He’s being heavily connected to Dallas at #24.
It’s also possible teams are just doing a lot of homework on a player who missed time at Ole Miss due to a charge of sexual battery. The charge was eventually dropped but teams will investigate this thoroughly.
Strictly from a football perspective, he has a lot of what Seattle needs. He’s long, athletic, a tremendous pass rusher, he’s quick and explosive. But he might not be an option — either due to character flags or being off the board.
Another player teams will be investigating closely is Adam Anderson. He was suspended by Georgia after voluntarily handing himself into the police following an accusation of rape.
Anderson has denied the allegation. This article from ESPN details what Anderson is accused of. Let me make it clear — I don’t want anyone ‘debating’ the accusation in the comments section. This is a sensitive subject and should be handled appropriately.
Anderson’s attorney has filed a motion for the case to be dismissed. In February the court granted a motion modifying the conditions of Anderson’s bond that allowed him to return to the Athens area for a workout in front of NFL scouts. This took place last week. He was previously barred from appearing in Athens and Oconee County except for legal and academic matters.
At his workout, which was watched by 17 teams, he ran a forty in the 4.5’s and jumped a 39 inch vertical and an 11-1 broad.
The outcome of the case will determine what happens next. If it’s dropped, as his attorney has requested, then teams will do their own internal investigations and decide whether they are comfortable drafting him.
I have no idea whether the Seahawks would have any interest here, regardless of the outcome of the request. I also don’t want to go too far into the long grass on this one until there’s actual news on the case.
I’ll simply note that Anderson was considered a high first round prospect before this legal matter and if the case is dropped and he commences his NFL career, there’s a chance he will receive a lot of attention.
As an 3-4 OLB prospect he has everything — length, quickness and explosive qualities. He’s only around 240lbs but he uses great hands and power to jolt far bigger offensive linemen. I can’t recall a pass rusher with a first-step burst that has O-liners so frequently out of position like Anderson shows. Tackles turn their bodies parallel to the goalposts so often to cover the edge, leaving also sorts of speed-to-power and inside counters open.
He’s also brilliant working in space, he can drop then read/react as well as most middle linebackers and he just has a natural athleticism to him.
Remarkably he’s also a tremendous special teams gunner.
This is as much as I’m going to talk about Anderson until there’s new information on his case.
I’m not sure how the Seahawks would view Joshua Paschal. He’s a potential heart-and-soul leader with extremely explosive, powerful traits. He’s a menace vs the run and a TFL collector. He also lacks twitch and speed off the edge to rush the passer and that could be an issue for a team desperate to add dynamic rush ability. They’ve said they need another Darrell Taylor and that’s not really Paschal.
Drake Jackson is an intriguing prospect with a lot of question marks. He’s someone teams are going to spend a fair bit of time figuring out. His weight has gone up and down. He’s now 270lbs, up from 255lbs, but he claims he’s in terrific shape. He doesn’t look like the long, lean pass rusher the Seahawks are typically looking for — but there are positives. He ran a 4.28 short shuttle which is great for his size. He managed a 10-7 broad jump at his combine.
His tape has flashes but also a lot of middling play. Even so, he could be someone they look at.
They might pivot to a group that includes Dominique Robinson, DeAngelo Malone and Amaré Barno. The trio are all very athletic but are more developmental types. They all combine length and speed with a lean frame — they look like Seahawks’ pass rushers but are perhaps unlikely to have an impact in year one.
Jeffrey Gunter at Coastal Carolina is another name to watch. I’m really struggling to get an angle on Nik Bonitto at Oklahoma. I can’t tell whether his physical profile warrants intrigue or whether his tape suggests a day-three type.
It all further highlights why the best thing for the Seahawks is to get a pass rusher at #9 and then address cornerback later. It just might not be possible.
I watched Pittsburgh corner Damarri Mathis last night, after the buzz surrounding his pro-day performance. He is a fantastic player, worthy of a second round grade.
He’s 5-11 and 196lbs but packs a real punch as a hitter. He’s very prepared to level someone given an opportunity and tackling is a strong point. He has 32 inch arms so ticks that box.
He ran a 4.39 at the combine and then added a 43.5 inch vertical at his pro-day. That level of athleticism will allow him to stick with the best athletes at the next level and while he requires some technical refinement (like most players) he has the make-up of a terrific pro-corner. He flies to close space in zone with extreme acceleration. Mathis can stick downfield and his recovery speed/reactions are a strong point.
I’m not sure it’d be too rich to take him at #40 or #41 — provided you were able to get a pass rusher at #9.
There are plenty of hidden gems at corner — from MJ Emerson to Montraric Brown to Jalyn Armour-Davis to Cam Taylor-Britt and so on. There’s a long, long list of names — as there are at several positions. I’ll be posting an updated horizontal board soon.
It’s a treat for the Seahawks to have as many picks as they do this year. It’s why, as much as they clearly appreciate D.K. Metcalf, they have to keep their options open about his future.
For example, with the Jets so interested in adding a top receiver, there might be an opportunity to swap #9 for #4 — while acquiring extra stock on day two. That would guarantee you a pass rusher.
Either way they shouldn’t force things at #9 — trading down for example to find an appropriate range to take a Sam Williams based on need. They need talent, first and foremost. Not chasing holes on the roster.
At #9 — that might mean taking a cornerback. Even if ideally you want that pass rusher first, creating an opportunity to draft a defensive back later.
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Rob, out of curiosity, who would you say are the most overrated and underrated players in this class?
Underrated:
Abraham Lucas
Zach Tom
Kevin Austin Jr
Zamir White
Tyrion Davis-Price
Jack Coan
Damarri Mathis
Nick Cross
Montaric Brown
Plenty of others too
Overrated:
Charles Cross
The top four quarterbacks
I would need to properly dig into it to add more names
Daniel Faalele?
Rob, another great article as always!
A couple questions, let’s say the Seahawks sent DK Metcalf to the Jets and as part of the deal Seattle jumps from 9 to 4. If the first three picks were Hutchinson, Neal and Ekwonu in some order, then with Walker, Thibodeaux, and Johnson are all there which of the three would be your top choice?
Second, have you watched enough tape on Stingley to see where the criticism is coming from? LSU corners always seem to be solid if not shit down corners in the NFL, and other than the implosion of the team after they won the National Title, just wondering if you have been able to spot something more tangible than many draft “experts” are putting out there.
As always another awesome job and we all appreciate the thought you put into your analysis of the Seahawks.
Any. I’ll take any.
I’ve watched the tape, yes. I think it’s classic familiarity breeding contempt and people being unwilling to acknowledge how crap LSU became. As for LSU corners being solid not shutdown… Patrick Peterson & Tre’Davious White want a word.
My apologies to Peterson and White, I meant to say at worst LSU corners are solid, but plenty become shut down corners like the two mentioned. That’s what I get for posting while answering my wife’s question.
Great Rob. Pete seems to be a creature of habit. So, I can see him wanting to create the Legion of Boom 2.0. With Stingley, Diggs and hopefully Adams he can have that great secondary. It’s a lot of “if’s “,though. We don’t know if Stingley is going to be a true lock down corner ; or if Adams can return to All-Pro or pro bowl form. But, I think Stingley or Sauce could be a good choice at #9.
I will be excited if they show that there is a plan instead of just hoping things will work out.
Do you know why the Hawks have no interest in Gilmore? What do they know?
Probably just a lack of cap space
Hey Rob, what would you think about trading down and targeting Lucas in the First? You could get more picks in the sweet spot of the draft and come away with an underrated legit talent at a spot of need. Then you give yourself all sorts of options throughout rounds 2-5.
I want to build the defense up
Rob – both this post and the previous post by Curtis are excellent. Really top-notch content. Intelligent, insightful, well-researched and well-written.
Both take into account the moves we’re seeing so far from the FO, as well as the developing reality we’re witnessing around the league and in the buildup to the draft.
Let’s hope this Seahawks see thing this way, more or less. It really should be job 1 to land some studs here. And you’ve pointed out several different ways they can accomplish that.
If we presume they land a couple of decent tackle hedge options, then target pass rush or CB at 9, what would be your preferred approach to young OL in the draft? I like OC in the second for the likes of Strange or Jurgens, then maybe a developmental tackle (or two?) later in the draft.
Are there any tackle prospects late day-2 or beyond that you’d feel better about value-wise than some of the early Tackle possibilities you’ve already outlined?
I’d be very open to Jurgens or Strange or even Linderbaum in R2.
If Abraham Lucas lasts he would be ideal.
I like Obinna Eze as a day three project at tackle. I think Sean Rhyan is a guard but might be prepared to try him at tackle first. Matt Waletzko has some talent to harness. Need to see Rasheed Walker test. Would’ve said Nicholas Petit-Frere but his combine was a massive disappointment.
And thanks for the kind words.
Hey Rob,
Another in a stream of excellent content. Thank you!
This has me thinking about overall rankings and tiers in this draft. You mentioned the concern about passing up on special talents to fill a need (OL). This begs the question: who are the guys in this draft who warrant that ‘special’ label?
Given their current situation, it would be wise to focus on the best player available at premium positions: QB, OT, CB, and pass rusher (DL/EDGE). If we focus on those positions, who are the ‘special’ players who might be on the board at #9?
Based off various rankings, the top pass rushers include Aidan Hutchinson, Kayvon Thibodeaux, Travon Walker, Devonte Wyatt, and Jermain Johnson. OL options include Ikem Ekwonu and Evan Neal (assuming they stick at OT). At CB, Derek Stingley and Ahmad Gardner are the consensus top players. That is 9 players.
Do you see a steep drop after that?
If there is a lack of consensus after the top ~8-9 guys, the best path could be to see if any of those top guys last and if not trade back. I imagine that the chances of one of those guys being there is good, as guys who play other positions not listed above will likely go in the top 10 (Kyle Hamilton, Drake London, Garret Wilson).
Thus, I was wondering where you see the tiers in this draft?
My own reading on this suggests the Hawks pick at #9 is right around the range where things get less clear. If so, they would be wise to stick at 9 and select whoever among that group is still on the board. On the other hand, if the gap between 9 and ~15 isn’t huge, the Hawks should consider trading back, taking whoever slides, and adding another day two pick. Your take?
I think you can chuck in the two Georgia DT’s and maybe the Ohio State WR’s. Plus perhaps Trent McDuffie. Then I think there’s a drop.
I’m not a fan of trading down from #9. I think that’s a good place to get a good player. I’d only move down if they are convinced the guy they’re going to take at #9 will be there at #12.
I would prefer a pass rusher at 9. Tre brown prior to his injury was showing a lot of promise. I really want to give him a shot.
I’d like to trade dk for a first this year and a first next year. I’ve heard a couple people say they don’t want to see Seattle become the nfl’s farm system. Do we really need a 20-25 million dollar wide receiver on a bad team? While a trading him could give the team 2 players to build the future around. Save that money and then spend it when your on the verge of contending again.
So would I but the article explains that might not be possible.
There’s nothing stopping him competing for a starting role on the other side. Jones and Burns are on short term deals and you need depth/competition anyway.
Let’s cross our fingers that Johnson or walker falls to us. If they don’t I could see us trading down and picking penning.
I doubt it
If we go corner at 9 what do you think about Nik Bonitto in round 2
Hi Carl! You can find Nick Bonitto’s on Rob’s draft board with a 4th round grade.
I literally talk about my thoughts on Bonitto in the article
It seems so strange that the hawks haven’t brought back Duane Brown. I think he’s better than Eric fisher and likely would cost the same amount. Not having original pick still frustrates me. The Sheldon Richardson, Duane brown, Jamal adams trades have set this team back for years.
I think they want him, Brown just had an idea of his value and probably thinks he either gets that amount or calls it a day
Absolutely take the best available EDGE or CB at 9.
Set the tome for a defensive overhaul, and continue the trend at 40 and 41, unless someone like Lucas or a top center is available.
I really want them embracing the defensive rebuild this year, setting them up for an offensive rebuild next year. Especially if they can extend DK, giving him a top rookie QB to play with, and some pass protection, allowing them to thrive.
I agree.
Get a blue chip player at #9, regardless of position.
An edge or CB with elite potential will be a perfect player to build the defense around.
I would be ecstatic with a pass rusher.
I would be happy with a corner.
I would be content with an OT.
This draft has me open to a ton of possibilities. Stingley or sauce at #9. Jermaine Johnson. Somehow miss on all that and get Wyatt.
In the second there’s so many ways to improve. More defense with tindall. Actually wouldn’t cry if a safety like Cross was taken there. Or. Go jurgens and lucas back to back and start to shore up a cruddy oline. Plus super outside chance winfrey or Travis Jones falls and Seattle could take a young strong NT in the second with Jones.
It is mind-blowing how many players should go in the 2nd/3rd that will last in the 4th or beyond.
I just don’t want the team to be cute with the first pick. You should be able to get a really good player. I’m pretty sure one of the CBs will be there. You have your pick of the DTs. The 2nd tier OTs are still there. Just don’t get cute. Add quality to our team. No one thinks you’re smart anymore…
💯.
I want to see someone contribute next fall. At a high level. Okung wasn’t Walter jones but he mattered for his time and in that same striking range was earl. No projects. No need to reach. No need to be crestfallen if “your guy,” isn’t there.
At nine you should be getting someone who you hope garners a big second contract. A sort of good problem to have.
Even if they get weird by some sites standards and take Wyatt (whom like Rob i feel seems like he can be very special) do it. Go get special players.
Please don’t trade down just to be doing it and add an extra fourth or whatever. With so many picks this year and certainly next year they have plenty of picks to draft in their spot and change this team.
Less heralded than nine but those earlyish 2nds could be difference makers in changing this team.
I’m with you, Roy, and I really hope the Hawks draft for defense this year. Really really hoping one of the great edge rushers is available for us at #9 but yeah, if not, getting a stud CB like Stingley would be great also.
Another amazing article, Rob!
I’d definitely be onboard with bringing one of my LSU boys home to the Seahawks. Stingley was awesome for us last year. I just don’t expect Seattle to heavily a position they’ve never spent higher than a 3rd rd pick on. I’d gladly take Stingray at 9.
They’ve also only had one too 10 pick before and never really had a chance to draft an elite corner. Plus the scheme change could play into it.
Excellent point! But, does he meet all you’re specs, TEF, SPARQ, ARMS, SPEED? If so, then I think he’s justified taking at 9. The defense has definitely needed an overhaul and now that Wagner is gone, the Seahawks can begin that face-lift.
Bottom line, I think you need at least 1 OL and DL within the first 3 rounds of this draft. I could see Seattle trading back from 40 or 41 a lot easier than from 9.
You don’t justify taking a player ninth overall because he simply fits a bunch of specs though.
The Seahawks need to draft a great player at nine. Thw #9 pick isn’t just like them picking in the late first again. They need to shoot for greatness with that pick — and I think they will.
Agreed. Its the only reason as to why I wouldn’t want us to trade down. You need an absolute difference maker. It’s great that we have more than just a couple of options. However I am absolutely terrified that Seattle will draft a QB at 9. That would be the biggest worst case scenario for me.
Changing gears here for a moment, about the QB situation. I think we might have to wait until the draft is over if the Seahawks were to acquire a veteran at QB like Baker Mayfield. The Seahawks don’t wanna tip their hand by acquiring Baker now. It could mess up another player’s draft selection, other than just the QB position in the draft.
For instance if other teams know Seattle needs a QB, they may be more inclined to trade up in front of Seattle for a QB they want, which leaves maybe an Edge, or CB player that the Seahawks love, fall to them at 9.
At this point I feel as though its the “shell game” when it comes to picking at 9.
Playing off prior article, how about a trade of DK to Jets for #10 & 38, giving us two top 10 picks and five in top 41.
Then, ideally, you grab your edge rusher and CB in top 10, leaving the later three picks for best player available.
I have no idea if we will trade DK.
But I’ll put my money on the opposite of whatever Greg Bell’s sources are telling him.
I think, as Rob and others have said, you can guarantee that the jets won’t give up 10, much less 10 plus 38. If they did, it would make it very interesting. Could add a WR with 38 and get the top 2 available at 9 and 10. But, I don’t see the jets doing that, and accepting less isn’t worth it.
DK seems pretty confident and determined to be in Seattle, so I imagine he is confident he will get a deal done to stay.
It’s very annoying that the Seahawks chose to pay Dissly over DJ Reed (identical cap hits in 2022 ‘Spotrac’), as it shouldn’t have prevented them taking a corner at #9, if the right player was there to take, but because it’s prevented us from having an interesting discussion about a deep bunch of Tight Ends in this years draft (I’d like to know more about Daniel Bellinger, YouTube tape very thin). I suppose it’s very unlikely Seattle will draft one, unless evidently a BPA with a fifth or seventh round pick?
For proper football reasons, I still think it’s up there with the strangest decisions not to pay DJ Reed (instead of Dissly), because he’d proved he was a good fit, is young and other than our 2021 rookie Tre Brown, we don’t have any proven outside Cornerbacks on a long term contract. As discussed, the Cornerback position is perhaps going to be one of our most important positions to cover competency wise, if the team is transitioning to the 3-4 scheme?
Sure — but there’s no real need to pay Reed and a #9 pick with Burns, Jones and Brown also in the mix.
If they’d paid Reed, they wouldn’t have recruited or needed to recruit Burns. Jones is only on a one year deal and all three corners in the case of Brown, Jones and Reed, tend to suffer injuries during the season. I think whilst being a very talented cornerback group, picking another elite prospect at #9 would have been a quite understandable, if as BPA, the draft had fallen in such a way.
The problem now, is CB is a need to draft and hit, so an earlier pick becomes more prudent, but this can be said for many other positions too.
If they’d have paid Reed, they wouldn’t have any money left.
And they need to sign two tackles.
If they’re thinking of drafting a corner at #9, signing Reed too would’ve just meant ending up with too many corners and no tackles.
It’s a bit of overreaction, but I the Dissly contract is really what shook a lot of my confidence in getting this rebuild right. Rob, you’ve laid out a good plan throughout the offseason for the rebuild that most people here would be excited about. It feels like the Seahawks are already slightly off course though. They are up against the cap without most premium positions filled – no LT, no RT, no premium pash rusher, no quarterback, no shutdown corner. Yet they spend lots on TE, safeties, RB room, across DTs.
The rebuild was never going to take just one offseason, but unless they pull a few rabbits out of the hat, there is more work to be done than they can get done. If they didn’t pay Reed to go CB in the draft, they’ve left themselves in a situation where I’m not convinced their pass rush will be good enough. I’m not super convinced they’ll be creative enough on contracts to get their tackle situation sorted before the draft.
I would have much rather they have not signed Dissly (or Diggs) and back them to find a blocking TE or free safety. Or work with a young player who might struggle there.
Here’s hoping they do tap into the pass rush/cornerback/linebacker with their top three picks. Long way to go still, but just hope it’s not another offseason of you laying out a good plan, me getting excited, and then the Seahawks going in a slightly bewildering direction.
I really think Dissly and Diggs are players they view as leaders and glue guys. I’m guessing JS/PC felt they were very important to shepherd the Seahawks through what could be a difficult season. It’s also possible Dissly’s role might be expanded with a QB who might be able to use a TE more effectively.
The note on Sauce’s personality lead me down a bit of a YouTube blackhole. https://youtu.be/Ys0XRpNTvWE I could imagine Pete being very into Sauce.
I can imagine Pete loving Sauce & Stingley
“Sauce & Stingley” – The buddy cop series I never knew I’d want.
If we’re naming cops shoes, I like the sound of “Stingley and Sauce” better! Just love the way that rolls off the tongue! 😜
He’s been in contact Jamal and Sherm among others
Yeah noticed he said Jamal Adams had reached out to him
Why do I get the feeling the first car Sauce will purchase after the draft will be a Lamborghini Urus?
It’s nice knowing that the Seahawks may actually take a CB in the first day or second day of the draft.
Here is Richard Sherman interviewing Sauce Gardner. The interview starts around the 24 minute mark.
https://youtu.be/Jy1EjUQWo7M?t=1478
Rob, have you studied Trevor Penning’s tape? Thoughts?
On paper he seems like everything you look for in a tackle prospect. How would you feel about trading down into the teens (LA @ 17?) and selecting him?
I’ve studied pretty much everyone’s tape.
He has a lot of the traits they look for physically but Penning needs a lot of work. Senior Bowl a glaring example where he kept giving up the inside counter and then worried about it in 1v1’s, so DE’s kept feigning inside then beating him with speed to power. He had no anchor and couldn’t reset. These are technical flaws that you just can’t ignore and while his athletic testing is top 10 I think he’ll struggle if he’s chucked in the deep end early and there’s at least a chance he ends up at RG. I don’t want a RG at 9.
Chad Reuter released a mock yesterday with Willis going at 2 at Detroit, Pickett at 3 to Atanta (after a trade up), and Corral at 6 to panthers. Pretty wild prediction!
Meanwhile Maurice Jones Drew released his latest mock with Travon Walker going first overall, and Johnson, Thibs and Hutchinson all going in the top 8 as well, with Seattle choosing Willis.
Thanks, saved me giving each bad mock a click
While the two should not be conflated, it made little sense to me at the time that PC/JS would allow Reed to walk over what was likely a couple of million dollars and then turn around and give the backup TE $24m. The two moves have to be looked at individually, but while the $24m continues to be a head scratcher for that player at that position, allowing Reed to walk makes more sense in this context if, as Rob suggests, CB is the target at #9.
Stingley is an All-World talent who was trapped on a burning clown car of a team last season. His effort and attitude reflected that reality. Getting that talent at 9 is almost unthinkable, but it may play out that way. Man, I’d pay to watch the Seahawks practice as Stingley and DK lock up daily.
A top 3 of:
Derek Stingley
Channing Tindall
Sam Williams
would be a proper kick in the ass and help set a path back to fielding a BAMF defense.
Also, there are no circumstance under which I would trade DK to move from 9 to 4. I’d much prefer the three guys above WITH DK to anything without.
I think that I almost prefer that to a Jermaine, Tindall, Safety/Tackle/Surprised He Fell combo.
I’m sure that new signings and trades will render all of this moot over the coming weeks, but it’s fun to think about.
These are my favorite articles of the year as we turn into the home stretch for the draft and things begin to take shape. Great work, Rob.
Stingley vs DK in camp is 🔥
If we get those 3 players I think it’s a huge win.
Stingley and Tindall are very realistic choices. CT continues to fly under the radar. Williams and his profile seems destined to go in the 1st or early 2nd.
Darrell Taylor probably would have gone in this range if he had testing numbers. These type of athletes just don’t last.
#41 is very interesting. They can go center. Lucas lasting would be a homerun. They probably will be very intrigued by DeAngelo Malone. We’ll see if he runs during his pro day.
Getting some combination of CB, LB, and Edge would be a great draft!
Rob, Cha (and all the regular cast of contributing characters):
If the Hawks F/O brings even a fraction of the insight and sagacity to their draft process that y’all have brought to SDB this off season, the future is gonna be bright!
Thanks (to one and all) for the heady reading. I’m hoping to see the mocks starting to stack up come the first week of April! Times of great change do indeed do bring with them great excitement and anticipation!
Thanks — and I have a new mock for Monday
Should be a good one! One of the the things I love about your mocks is that you put them out there to help us all think about the possibilities and then we talk through them. You’ve given us so many players to pay attention to this year that I’ve lost count. I wish we had 10 draft picks in rounds 2-4!
I love the mocks. I liken it to a combo of a thought exercise meets a bit of the five stages of grief.
.Rob brings up so many scenarios hopefully the blow is lessened a bit when Daniel Fallale is taken in the third round (please no)
I remember years ago Rob telling us why he did his mocks. It was to introduce us to players and to try to look at the various scenarios that the FO may be going through. Ever since then I’ve always looked at mocks that way (not just Rob’s). When I see lazy mockers giving us the same lazy (i.e. no thought given to what the Seahawks REALLY need) I learn to not even bother looking at anything they have to say. I miss Mayock and hope he gets back into this part of the Biz.
Mayock was recently on the Dan Patrick Show. It is also worth listening to if you like Mike.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuGwqtYby_Y
Thanks for the heads up. Love mayock.
Thanks for sharing this
I love Mayock
The draft is 100x better when he talks about it
I wish there was a way to get him back on the NFL Network
Any chance you could get an interview with him? I’d love to hear that one!
If only.
Would love that.
Wouldn’t that be something! He is free after noon each day it seems. 🙂
Just go for it Rob. What’s the worst that happens? He doesn’t respond. I mean all the other podcasts I try to stomach through are just people yammering. You had an awesome interview with McCloughan….mayock and Staton breaking down prospects…..heck yeah.
I don’t have a means of contacting him
Little Sting. Love it. I really hope the FO does the right thing this year…BPA on the D!
Just saw this article on PFT and thought, I’d take Jimmy G for nothing! How about you?
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/03/26/shoulder-surgery-may-force-49ers-to-cut-jimmy-garoppolo/
The moment Jimmy gets released, his agent is getting multiple calls and offers for good money.
I’m not sure how many of you folks like Cowherd, but I listen to him for his perspective and take on things. This episode in particular was really good. He tells you where he is coming from after the news of the day. Worth a listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXK36Xg1D5c
I’m not so sure those moves indicate a lean towards CB in the draft. They do have a bit of a repeating pattern – they let Griffin get bid up, Coleman get bid up, Deshaun Shead, Byron Maxwell, etc. They’d simply priced themselves out of their range.
They probably did give a decent but not great offer to Reed, and the Jets swooped in and offered what the Seahawks did plus the 20% Poor Organization Upcharge.
(now hand me the checkbook and ask me to choose between Reed, a starting OT and Will Dissly, and my answer is far different than the Seahawks’)
I can see the Seahawks being thrilled with what they saw in Tre Brown as a rookie, getting Sidney Jones and Artie Burns at very affordable deals and reasoning that they’ve spent a fortune on safeties so they have to hold back somewhere. They did just snag Karl Scott and maybe they think he can make some hay at the position on a budget.
I think it’s just as conceivable they draft a corner, just later. Maybe also pursue a value FA find later in the summer, and/or consider seeing what they have in Nigel Warrior and John Reid.
All that said, I do absolutely agree that if the pass rush picks are gone at #9, Stingley is a really fantastic get and I won’t be the least bit upset with it. You take him and snicker at the teams in the top 8 who may have reached for a QB or fallen in love with guys who will be playing guard in 2023.
The switch in scheme arguably places a greater importance on the position though
And the need for a top corner
If Reed isn’t a top corner, and they think they can get one, then it makes sense to see if you can get a great deal or just move on
Fair enough. But were there no fits in free agency then? I didn’t hear a thing about the Seahawks pursuing any of the top corners.
But then again, “We need a serious corner but we’ll let the top free agents pass, spend our money on a blocking tight end, a free safety and a couple rotational DL and hope there’s one in the draft” is a totally Seahawks thing to do.
I agree with everything you said. Although I could see them signing Diggs because they wanted to make a statement (the way he got injured and how respected he is around the league and within the team). Also, with Russ and Bobby gone they wanted to keep one of their main leaders. So while not a good investment of capital in the overall roster building exercise, I saw it coming. Paying $24M to Will totally floored me. I heard rumors that he had quite a bit of interest. But at that price you let him walk and spend it on OL or CB. Instead we signed a blocking TE2 and low balled both Reed and Trent Brown.
I would love to have seen the look on DK’s face when he was informed about Dissly’s contract.
I think you’re overthinking it a bit Cha
Like that’s never happened before.
Rob if we were to trade down to like 14-18 what sort of compensation we are looking at. If we can do that and add Stringley if he is falling or Wyatt be excellent.
I would guess probably a third if it’s a few picks. 18 would probably be looking at a lot more
Just a thought point on DK & the WR position as it relates to Seattle. It is one of the position groups that Seattle has had the most success with over the years both in the draft & with UDFAs. Would that help tip their decision toward a trade of their star? Idk.
Because the roster is basically starting from scratch, my main hope with the 1st pick and all the rest is that they get hit after hit after hit. We need cornerstone, foundational talent.
JJ will be available at #9 but I doubt JS uses the pick on him. I could see Sauce being the pick. My choice is still a bona fide Thanos to set the tone for the defense
I have a hard time seeing him getting past the NY Giants. Even if the Giants take a CB, he’s prime for the Falcons.
Giants will use their picks on trash players like the always do. Falcons will go with some crazy pick as well
1. You don’t know whether JJ will be available
2. Two down player is not a good way to launch a rebuild
Chris Simms revealed his QB rankings and Matt Corral is #1. When you think about it, he is everything Pete wants in a QB—athletic, strong arm, good deep ball, pg type, a leader. I get him not being a value at 9 but could be a real option with a trade up or down.
That is old news from Simms. I doubt the first pick is quarterback but if it is then this front office can F themselves
They already F themselves on a all too regular basis.
A lot of people in Denver were critical of George Paton taking Surtain last year. Many though it a luxury pick and wanted to draft Fields.
Paton simply said he was the best player available and essentially admitted he didn’t like the QBs left on the board.
I hope JS does the same. Paton knew the Broncos weren’t going to be competitive in 2021 and used the 2021 draft to build a strong young core. He took Surtain when he had Darby, Fuller, Callahan, and Ojemudia. He took Javonte Williams when they had Melvin Gordon at $9MM cap. Scooped up Meinerz and Browning in the 3rd.
This should be the same approach for JS in 2022. Roster construction almost shouldn’t matter- just go get great players.
Ironic how, after SB48, the Broncos copied the Seahawks and went all-in on defense.
Now, nearly a decade later, we would be wise to copy them.
You need a top ten defense. Heck more rookie contract qb’s have won superbowls than teams without a top ten defense in this century.
These are so unrealistic sometimes, but one can dream!!! Lots of trade downs from 41 to get so many picks in the 3rd round… lol
1(9) Jermaine Johnson EDGE Florida State
2(40) Devonte Wyatt DT Georgia
3(65) Abraham Lucas OT Washington State
3(83) Channing Tindall LB Georgia
3(92) Alec Lindstrom OC Boston College
3(99) Justyn Ross WR Clemson
3(105) James Cook RB Georgia
DK Trade w/ Philly for #15 & 1st next year.
1(15) Derek Stingley Jr. CB LSU (DK TRADE)
This would be unbelievable. It would set us up big time!
Those are the types of mocks that get a certain amount of fans unrealistically riled up for draft day. Then reality hits and they’re breaking TV’s, computer screens and phones as those players fly off the board well before Seattle picks.
Fans that don’t read this blog.
Wish publications such as the Seattle Times might branch out from the CBS mocks etc when they post a ‘mock draft rundown’
We might be just a blog but we do good work on the draft
Yours are, hands down, the most complete, and legit draft boards regarding anything and everything Seahawk.
And it’s not even close.
Almost every other place I’ve looked has catered to the “must draft position of need no matter what” mantra.
You, however, have always stayed the course and drafted on a combo of need, and more importantly, the best position groups represented in each draft.
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/mockdraft/
I was able to pull it off almost 3 times last night.. Give me have these players and I would do back flips.
The hardest players to find quality in the NFL are quarterbacks, left tackles, pass rushers, and corners. Rank being equal, those are the positions I’d like to see the Seahawks draft. Worrying are the holes they have at all those critical positions.
I’d be thrilled with Stingley or Gardner at #9 if that’s who they rate. Players that miss time with injury come with questions about recovery, future availability, and whether they really love football enough to work their way back. If I’ve learned one thing listening to McLoughan and Nagy, it’s that you have to find players that are driven and love playing football. I think that’s what you’re looking into with Stingley because the talent clearly there.
* And I don’t think anybody ranks any of the QB’s in this draft as much better than 2-3 round talent, even if they end up drafted higher.
Rob, love the write on Stingly & other options for picks; as well as the vid clips.
Cha, excellent post on Metcalf could definitely get behind the 4yr deal.
I just hope the Seahawks have already been working on it, so they can either get it done or trade him.
Don’t want to see them stall it out & end up not signing him; but watch other top young receivers get traded 1st for what we could have gotten.
Either sign him ASAP or call the Jets.
Unfortunately looks like another top receiver could be on the move.
https://twitter.com/unathanmckinnon/status/1507585108882165765?t=koEFbfTYIb4drH9-9gLLmw&s=19
I’ll be pretty upset if the 49rs get that Jets package.
Especially if we fail to extend DK & it could have been ours.
The decision should have already been made as far as I’m concerned.
Luckily not a source i recognize. So hopefully BS.
Please can I ask we don’t share fake insider twitter accounts?
That tweet has nearly 2000 likes. Last week some nonsense about Metcalf had thousands too and even got a shout out by Pat McAfee.
If a random dude tweets something, it’ll be BS
Rob interesting thoughts on your Corner topic I am really we are in a division with Receivers like Cooper Kupp and DeAndre Hopkins and deebo Samuel you can’t have enough quality corners. I am also concerned about Running Backs I know R Penny but nevertheless can he stay healthy? Where was he weeks 1 though 13 ? It’s a valid question isn’t it and Chris Carson is a huge question mark isn’t he. And that leaves us with Homer and Dallas and that equals a giant yikes. I would be interested in your thoughts on the Running back position
I’ve written a lot about the RB’s but yes agreed, they need to add one
I know you’re not inclined, but I want one no later than round 3. The guys we’ve drafted after that outside of Carson are DL Dallas and Travis Homer. This team desperately needs a bellcow and Penny is not likely to be the guy due to injuries imo.
I agree
Don’t think Carson will be back. Neck injury is pretty scary. Plus there are a number of good running backs in the mid-rounds. Agree with Rob. Pass rusher first. But if the Pass rushers are gone. You can’t force a need. You have to go best player available. Which could be Stingley. I don’t know if pay attention to Lindy’s football draft magazine. But they surprising also had Stingley as their top corner. Thought for sure Lindy’s would have Sauce Gardner number one. But Lindy’s had Gardner number three. Lindy’s pick for the 2nd corner was Kaiir Elam. With all the top flight receivers in the NFL and especially in the NFC West. If Stingley is the best player available you can’t go wrong. Remember I am a pass rusher guy first. From me it is almost a Mortal sin to take a cornerback over a defensive end.
After listening to Jim Leavitt. He sold me on the idea of having outstanding corners. Especially if you are in a 3-4. In a 3-4 defense, cornerback play is crucial.
The Seahawks front office were idiots for signing Chris Carson to a multi year deal with solid money and real garuntees. Period.
Do you think the Hawks will consider trading up to get pass rusher?
I wouldn’t rule it out but you need your day two picks this year
They keep harping on needing a game wrecker at DE and supposedly lured Desai in with some personnel promises. My hope is they trade their 3rd rounder to Carolina to move up to pick 6 to make sure they get a stud. I know that 3rd rounder is a great pick this year but a good shot at a real difference making DE is worth it to me when you have extra 1st and 2nd round picks this year and next. Add in the better the prospect (one of the top few guys…) the better the chances for early returns on a rookie contract and a guy you’ll want to be resigning in 4 years.
The top pass rushers might be gone by four…
Yeah, keep your picks, man. Take the best player available on your board, don’t get cute and don’t overdraft. There will be a great player there at 9 that will help your team from the jump. Just don’t get cute and think you’re smarter than the rest of the league and pick someone you could get by trading back into the round or even with your two 2nd round picks.
Just saw Stingley has 30 5/8 inch arms. This isn’t a major issue for the Seahawks?
Meanwhile Sauce Gardner had long 33 and 1/4 inch arms. However, Gardner isn’t as clean a player as Stingley, his technique is sloppy and he gets penalized a lot. Also Stingley is a tick faster / more athletic. Still I wonder if the Seahawks would prefer Gardner for his height (6’3 and 1/4) and length. However DJ Reed, Tre Brown, Justin Coleman… none of these guys who have been good in Seattle recently are long corners.
Tre Brown has 30 3/8 inch arms
It hasn’t been a thing for over a year Jack
Let’s be fair here. Pick number 9 is different from taking a stab at a guy in the fourth round. When brown was drafted his “special teams” abilities were talked up a lot by fans and many assumed that would be his only role. Meanwhile the Seahawks signed lanky Witherspoon and flowers was penciled in as a starter on the other side.
Special teams?
It was all about how Seattle was adjusting what they look for in a cornerback. Carroll spoke extensively about it. Everyone was looking forward to seeing Brown compete for a job.
Sauce’s technique is not sloppy.
There’s definitely things he needs to work on. Stingley has so much natural talent that I sense he will be able to work through his issues much like Earl Thomas did. Is Gardner enough of a talent to do the same and become elite? That’s a question mark for me
A couple of questions – if there’s an early run on pass rushers, how high would you be prepared to take Boye Mafe? Would you take him 9?
And related, if the top 4 pass rushers and top two cbs are gone by 9 and you can’t trade down who do you take?
Wyatt or trade down.
Wyatt, 💯. Interior pressure could still be game wrecking and provide awesome value for Taylo and nwosu.
In that extremely unfortunate circumstance I look to Georgia
I like Mafe a lot but the arm length makes me wonder if Seattle go that route
Reading quite a few draft prospects list I’m often finding Wilson, Dean, Lloyd and Cross in the top ten and with how unpredictable the draft can be do you see any of the top 8 teams in the draft reaching for any of these guys against going with your well founded logical top 8 picks.
I saw Lloyd mocked to seahawks the other day. Stopped reading it at that point.
Lazy thinking behind it, they lost wagner so I’ll give them a linebacker at 9.
I don’t
Most mocks are absolutely bananas this year
If they never made the Adams trade, they could have picked LT Christian Darrisaw with #23 last year, and possibly picked 2 guys out of Stingley, Gardner, Hamilton, Johnson at #9 and #10
Then think about the extra cap room as well……
I’ve been a big fan of Stingley, I think hes be a top 5 player in this draft. Just like KT, he may be off the board, but I’d love a move to grab one of these ultra high ceiling players. I’d rather the Hawks swing on a player who might be special.
💯
When I read about Leo Chenal I see a little Luke Kuechly in him. At least in run defense. 18.5 TFL is going to get NFL GMs attention. He probably not as good in the passing game like Kuechy was. But it will be interesting to see where he goes in the draft.
If the Hawks truly want to rebuild this roster and set themselves going forward. There is one trade that makes sense for all parties.
DK to the Jets for Becton +#38 and #42.
Jets get the weapon they need for Zach Wilson and get to keep #4 and #10
Hawks get a young LT with incredible upside then can use #38 for Abraham Lucas and #42 for Cam Jurgens.
So basically they trade DK for a young starting LT Becton, RT Lucas and C Jurgens. Their OL would be set for they next 5 years and by this time next year could be a quality unit ready for the Hawks QB of the future to excel behind.
Well, Becton has been a disaster. There’s a reason why the Jets are giving up on him. So I wouldn’t say the line would be set. I’m also not sure the Jets would be prepared to give him away as part of this deal. They almost might as well at least try and improve his stock over the next 12 months.
Rob how would you compare Becton to the OT in this draft class? He is still only 22 and would be 23 to start next season. If you could get Becton, 38 and 42 would you do the deal or would you prefer say #10 and #42 instead?
You’re not going to get that deal
As mentioned earlier, as bad as he’s been, there’s no reason for the Jets to give him away. They might as well hope for the best this year.
And I’m not sure why the Seahawks would want a player who has shown he can’t stay on the field, keep his weight down and whom the Jets are almost assuming is done
Second chances my friend😀
Second helpings are more the problem with Becton
I wouldn’t want that deal. I’d prefer DK.
But even if they made it, I sure wouldn’t want them going full-on OL in the draft to the detriment of the defense.
It seems important to get a linebacker in rounds 2-4, and it seems a good crop to find impact.
Within the requisite size/speed range, we should be looking at football sense and attitude. We were spoiled for years by Wagner’s ability to see what adjustments were needed, and to see the holes. A strong football IQ and the ability to communicate effectively are not metrics that we can see on a typical chart, so the interview process has a big role. In a way, linebackers are like midfielders in footie, keeping the team organized, communicating, and making his teammates better.
For the fan, we need to rely on replays of games. Does he show communication, is he regularly around the ball, and is he involved with his guys? We can do some good in this draft.
Percy Butler taking an official 30 visit to Seattle
No surprise. Expert gunner. Mocked him to Seattle regularly
Is Butler strictly a special teamer or does he have potential as a Safety as well?
I think he’s going to be a very good special teamer. Will need a lot of work to be more
Has Butler ever returned kicks? He’s ridiculously quick.
Added
Seahawks visits/meeting/interest Tracker
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J3d023YdKp9MFv7OQTy0YTssJ65qLd_aB0UJFGVHxPY/edit?usp=sharing
Any more 30 visits we know about yet besides him, Perrion Winfrey and Sauce Gardner?
Has Winfrey got an official visit? I missed that one
Well, I’m not 100% sure, to be honest.
Corbin tweeted at the Combine that “Former JUCO star said he had visit set up with #Seahawks.”
Watching Kurt Warner’s breakdown of Lock was encouraging. His strengths are his middle game and strong arm. Technique, decision making need work. Maybe I’m searching for a silver lining but if he is dedicated, I think he can succeed.
The first complete pass in preseason from Lock to DK in full stride over the middle is going to melt the Seattle area Internet.
People need something to grasp onto in this down year.
Not me my friend. I’m already settling into that top five pick next year for a qb. I like Kurt Warner just fine but with the exception of Tua and Bridgewater everyone in football has a strong arm. Some are stronger. Some have faster releases. It’s the decision making process that separates all the qb’s. Some have it. Some develop it. And some just never get it.
Cowherd had a great segment about how the mcvay and Shanahan trees can coach players up to 23 odd tds and around 8 ints. And those coaches all move off of those guys because that’s not enough in the modern game.
Lock makes the transition interesting. Expecting him to be something he isn’t seems a bit far fetched.
My prediction for Lock is something like 23 TD’s and 15 interceptions. He’ll probably win a game or two that nobody expects (eg Rams) but will also probably lose many other winnable contests.
I’d put money on those exact numbers.
That sounds about right to me, though I’ d nudge Lock’s TD’s down to 18. Lock’s sub-pedestrian output will ache worse as the newly-liberated Wilson goes, I’d say, about 44/8 for the high-octane Broncos. If Geno starts I’d guess he’d do about the same as Lock.
Abysmal Seattle QB numbers are what PC/JS deserve … stats they will have earned by way of their ludicrous decision-making, with a huge assist from the NFL’s worst “owner,” the bone-smuggling harasser herself. Maybe that’s uncharitable … but would Daniel Snyder have been sufficiently stupid to trade away Russell Wilson in favor of a failing, elderly coach? Despite his many flaws and WTF decisions over the years … I doubt it.
We are entering the years of tears, tribulation, and extreme frustration.
Slow mental processor on the football field with the “work ethic” of Jay Cutler and Jeff George. Cannon arm will “wow” some people and will win a game or two – but the team will achieve nothing above mediocrity for an entire season regardless of how well they draft this year. Get ready for another crapfest courtesy Dictator Carroll, puppet Schneider and bone digger Allen. Trifecta of worthlessness.
I’m perfectly content with a mediocre season in 2022.
In fact, I think it’ll be a job well done if they end up picking in the top-three.
Bring on the 2023 quarterback class.
I haven’t heard enough to be worried about Lock’s work ethic so I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt there. Plus, it looked like he was in town from his interview and DK has defended him a number of times already. Maybe they are putting in work, who knows?
Do I expect him to be better than Rob’s prediction? No. He’s still developing in my opinion. He’s got to continue to get better at reading defenses pre and post snap and make the right decisions with the ball based on those decisions. To me that comes down to his ability to learn, forget the bad plays, and the Seahawks to surround him with good teachers. He’s got the arm talent and some foundational elements to build on but depending on how well things come together or don’t come together, he could become a good, maybe even great QB. Everything would have to come together perfectly for the latter to happen and that’s still likely one or two years away.
I never said anything about Lock being something he is not. My statement was aimed squarely at those fans looking for anything to cheer for, which is a lot of fans this year. Hence me stating preseason.
The fact that the Lock would still have DK to throw that pass to is a win enough, to me. It means they’ve embraced the idea that the QB they do draft in 2023 will need that game breaking, dependable receiver.
Curious to see what happens with David Ojabo and Boye Mafe. Assuming Mafe goes in the first and would be awesome if Ojabo drops to 40.
Wyatt (1)
Ojabo (2)
Lucas (2)
Chenal (3)
Strange (3)
I’m starting to think Willis and Corral will be gone bye #8. IMO
I would say there’s almost no chance of that happening
This mock https://www.nfl.com/_amp/four-round-2022-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-qbs-malik-willis-kenny-pickett-go-top-three made my head spin. Still don’t know if it’s sincere or some sort of exercise.
I’ve seen the mocks with the QBs creeping up the boards too (admittedly the typical fanboy mocks). Rob’s final mock is always near the top every year with regard to first round accuracy; so I trust Rob’s opinion.. sounds like 3 will go in the first round but top 8-10 is unlikely.
IMHO I can understand the hype. There’s a part of me that could look at some of these QBs and talk myself into taking them at 9… all these comps to Josh Allen, Pat Mahomes, I even heard one fanboy compare Willis to Michael Vick. The reality is that all of them need serious development.. likely years of development. Drew Lock is a great example, he may yet turn out to be a good QB but he’s still developing.
So, PC/JS, if you’re listening, just take the best player available and don’t get cute (sorry John). If that’s one of several talented edge players, a potential star CB.. or even an OT (better be a good one that falls). Just don’t get cute.
I’m with you. There are some desperate teams willing to over reach as usual.
I’ve avoided commenting on this article because, well, I don’t like the proposal.
I don’t want Seattle drafting a CB at #9. There are quality CBs to be had in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
I also think a top 10 pick should be spent on a player who just put in a top 10 season. Not a player whose last good season was 3 years ago.
I also think a top 10 player is a top 10 player regardless of how poor the rest of his team played.
I don’t know, maybe Stingley is the next Jalen Ramsy. But based on the totality of evidence we have at this point, I don’t see it.
If the top EDGE defenders are gone, I want them to trade into the teens/early 20s and take Travis Jones, then target their LB and EDGE at 40/41. I’d even be in favor of targeting 2 CBs like two of Jalen Armour-Davis, Damarri Mathis, and Cam Taylor-Britt.
Not at all arguing against the logic in your article, which I acknowledge. I’m just expressing my personal opinion about it. But if that’s how it goes down, I’ll be right there with you cheering and hoping for the best.
I’m sorry but… WHAT????
Using this strict criteria you wouldn’t have drafted Josh Allen or Pat Mahomes
I get your position but I wouldn’t have drafted Mahomes or Allen for the seahawks. Fit is everything. Kind of doubt those two would be those two without great offensive minds. Mahomes probably would have been great either way but Allen on the seahawks?
That said the opposite is true for Stingley. Because fit. Desai and especially Carrol can hopefully let him loose into a shutdown corner.
You wouldn’t have drafted Allen or Mahomes?
Pretty sure Wilson turned out alright working under Carroll…
Mahomes. Yes.
In a scenario where Allen is drafted and it’s LOB/Marshawn/mauling by todays standards oline? Yes.
Allen in 2018. While the team is trending to what it is now? No. Conservative pete pulling the rug on established vet with 40 tds. How would that have gone with Allen and his abyssmal rookie year?
Wilson was pro ready and frankly when the history books are settled I think it’s very likely that the two of theirs success will be pretty well tied together.
I’m trying to look at it from the position of not what he became but from where the team was and who was going to bring that talent out of him at the time. And I think it’s fair to say he might not have reached his peak here with the coaches this team employs.
But this isn’t the point is it?
You’re saying you wouldn’t have drafted them out of fear.
I don’t know why we’re going down this road
I think I’m having a stroke.
Not fear. But that I realistically believe there’s every chance that without an offensive wizard at the helm Allen could have been just a long line of big armed turn over machines.
Mayock and you have mentioned fit. Lamar Jackson in a Roman offense. Harrington and “the other Carr brother,” going to lousy teams. Jake Locker to the titans. Tannehill before he got with a system that could utilize him. Alex Smith getting one of the worst coaching starts a young qb has ever had. Trevor Lawrence. The league is filled with talent that was misused and misdeveloped.
You know my feelings on the coaching staff til tecently. I don’t see any player “developing.”
I like josh Allen. He’s a great young player. Maybe I’m totally wrong and it would have all clicked for him with this mediocre team. I just don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility to think that players we think of us great may have had different paths in the wrong system. And I think Seattle as constructed then through now would have been the wrong system for him.
Josh Allen turned up at the Senior Bowl and looked like God’s gift to football
There was no ‘fit’ for him. It was just about development and whether you wanted to take a shot on the physical traits. Clearly the Seahawks were because we’ve kept hearing he was their guy in 2018.
I’m not sure why we’ve gone down this rabbit hole
Sometimes talent transcends fit.
Carroll has always tried to develop the CB position. I think he can do that better than any other position. We can take a 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounder and develop him into a solid player. Something they cannot do is develop OL. Wilson made their entire OL look much better than they were. Looking at #9 I am personally banging the table for Penning. I think hes athletic enough to play either RT or LT. Hes nasty. Hates anyone who lines up against him. Simular size to Andrew Whitworth. If we want to play bully ball this is the guy you want. Also we dont have a hedge for our OL needs. We signed Blythe and Fuller? Come on. Id say Penning at 9. Trade back into round 1 for either CB or Edge. Maybe Mafe or Duffie will be there around 22 to 28.
Well why not take the most talented cornerback to enter the league in 11 years and develop him instead?
Because the upside of that is Hall-of-Fame worthy
Not someone you let go to Jacksonville after four years
CB is a need. OL is a need. We can have Deion Sanders at CB and it still wont help the OL. Seattle has the ability to develop talent at CB? Yes. Its proven. Can they develop talent on OL. Debatable but signs point to no.
We dont need hall of fame worthy CB. We need OL because Lock cant scramble like Wilson. OL has been abysmal for last 4 or 5 years. Penning can secure either tackle spot for the next 10 years. Hes a truly violent player.
Im not saying Stingley isnt worth the 9th overall pick. He might very well be HOF level at the end but wheres the OL hedge? We have no starting tackles on the team. Plus if your looking long term rebuild how does a CB help our franchise QB in the 2023 draft?
Joe, you’re doing what a lot of people have started doing.
You can’t just magic up an offensive lineman worthy of the #9 pick. Nobody at offensive tackle can hold a candle to the DE’s and CB’s in this draft. They just can’t.
If you want to take a player like Penning who’s half as good as players at other positions just to satisfy your lust for O-liners, then be my guest. That’s how you build a crap football team. When you reach for positions.
Carroll has already spoken of his extreme keenness to address offensive tackle. They will sign some before the draft.
It is worth nothing, however, that after recording 29 reps of the bench press at his pro-day today, Penning registered a TEF score of 3.06. His weighted TEF is 99.5. It makes him an explosive tester to go along with a 4.89 forty and increases his chances of going early (potentially to the Seahawks).
You even had him going #5 to the NYG on your Mock draft a few weeks ago.
Youve had a 1st round grade on him for months.
This is what you wrote on this guy. You say he got beat by inside counters in 1 on 1s at the senior bowl. Cool. The OL isnt 1 on 1 the OG should be able to help prevent that.
I think with his athletic upside, demeanor and our OL needs he would be a fine pick. Id be good with the 9th pick here. In a perfect draft we trade back 14-17 and attempt to get him there. He had a very comparable combine to Jack Conklin who went 7th.
This team has deficiencies at most positions. I understand the best player available mentalities here, I just see this as need lines up well with the board.
There’s a difference between saying ‘I don’t want nor expect the Seahawks to draft this player at #9’ and ‘this player is useless’.
Yep and in my next mock he will be a top-15 pick.
You seem to now be mixing up why I don’t think he’d be a good pick for Seattle, and why I have reservations, with me not rating him at all or not thinking he’ll go early.
So that means I automatically have to want him at #9?
No, that’s not what I said. I said he was getting beat on inside counters (newsflash — pass rushers use those in the NFL too and you don’t always have a guard to help). When defenders noticed this (because it was obvious) they started feigning inside then converting speed-to-power. He was really conscious of it and he lost a lot of reps because a.) he was worried about anything inside and b.) when the defenders converted speed-to-power he struggled to anchor and re-set. I also noted he lost reps vs the speed rush to the edge.
This is a detailed, fair review of what happened having watched every rep of the Senior Bowl 1v1’s.
Demeanour and upside isn’t enough, as I said in my last answer. You need to explain why he’s the right pick in greater detail than this.
He’s nothing like Conklin though. Very different players. And Conklin has played right tackle throughout his career.
It’s a need until they address it in free agency (which Carroll has hinted he intends to). It doesn’t match up with the board.
You need a more compelling counter than this Joe if we’re going to carry this on. You just sound like one of the (admittedly many) who just want the team to draft a left tackle so much you’re not actually looking at the players. In your head you want to draft a position. It’s that kind of thinking that has got this team into trouble in the past.
Youre so stubborn. Lol.
Youre own blog you write hes worth top 5 pick for the NYG, which Id argue has a better OL than seattle. But you dont want him for Seattle? And if hes worth a top 15 pick its not that much of a reach?
Also I dont necessarily think “I just want a LT”. If we didnt sign Woods to an extension my draft crush was Jordan Davis to be honest with you. But Ive seen Penning on big boards all across the draft community as high as 8 and as low as 31. You said to bring an argument to the table how about a 99.5 run blocking grade which is something Im sure Pete Carroll will jump all over.
Not sure why you’re struggling with this so much. It’s possible to both project a player in a mock to go in a certain spot and not want that player for your own team at #9. Is it really that hard to understand?
Do I have to literally want every player drafted before Seattle’s pick? You do realise a mock isn’t a favourite players list, right?
I mocked Trey Lance as early as he went a year ago and thought he was massively overrated.
Yeah… you might want to speak to some Giants fans about that.
For the fifth or sixth time — just because you mock someone in a certain range doesn’t mean he’s worth the pick. Scot McCloughan last week said three QB’s will go in R1 with R3 grades. I’ve been through this enough times by now, surely?
At what level of football? They didn’t play many titans at Northern Iowa, did they?
You don’t draft a left tackle in the top-10 for run blocking grades at a small school.
Unfortunately Joe decided to resort to insults rather than form an actual coherent reply to this message. Alas, we move on.
You draft the strongest position groups, each and every draft. You do not draft because you have a need and MUST fill it.
This year the Seahawks have a need at almost every position. Therefore, as Rob stated, draft from the strongest groups in this draft, which happens to be on the defensive side. Next year they have a load of picks to go after whatever they want, and they will have a huge amount of cap to spend on high end FA’s.
2022 is merely a building block for the future. And this year’s draft is full of defensive building blocks.
I agree this is a deep draft for defense. Not so much for OL. We can grab defenders in rounds 3-4 that can start for us. But past the 1st round maybe 2 or 3 OT prospects could help out.
And it’s possible zero first round OT’s can help out
Wilson made the OLine look better than it was? He had great scramble plays but that was also his way of making up for his inability to get the ball out quickly with any consistency.
Much easier to block for a lesser QB who can run a conventional offense.
Thats a fair point, but how many sacks were on Russell vs the OL? Russell needing to scramble off his spot because the OL was collasping. He held the ball long because he was trying to create a play which would have been a sack.
I agree with Henry Taylor. It has aggravated me for years watching Russ run in circles and take a 10 yard sack. Did he make some big plays? Yes. Did he take some big losses? Yes. I believe I’ve seen that roughly half of the sacks he has taken were on Russ not getting rid of the ball in time. A good QB will throw the ball away, not take a sack. As a QB, you need to get rid of the ball within 2.5 seconds on 90% of pass plays. Russ’ skillset made us run an unconventional offense. We won’t see as many “wow” plays, but the hope is we will be a more steady and on time offense.
We don’t pick at 9 often enough to draft only by need. Penning is good but not great and if he lands at RT it’s a pick you could have perhaps replaced with Lucas at 40 (or in worst case in the same 22-28 range) with same if not better results. I want us to go BPA at 9. Don’t trade down, don’t get cute with a player nobody expected that you could get at 40. And don’t give me a LB. Bring in a guy who’s gonna be a game changer for the franchise. If you’re going to do anything with pick 9, try to trade up.
Im realizing this isnt a popular pick but it is a smart pick. If we are truly rebuild mode we have to start in the trenches. I see alot of people on here classify Penning as RT but he has ability to play either because hes athletic. OT cant really change a game. Youre right. But if we dont do something about this OL and soon they get used to picking top 10 for all the game changers. I see Penning as top 10 talent. I think his demeanor and physicality warrant consideration for top 10 pick. Plus hes a good athlete.
Totally agree with you both. Only way I take an OT is if Neal or Ekwonu are still there AND the guys on defense I wanted are gone, i.e. Jermain Johnson, KT, Travon Walker, Sauce, Stingley, or Wyatt.
Rob’s turned me off to Charles Cross and Penning does not look like a top 10 pick.
-Said I agreed with prior comments but noticed we differed on Penning being a top 10 pick. Have to agree to disagree there
I haven’t seen anyone classify Penning as a right tackle on here. Can you give me some examples please Joe, seeing as you’ve claimed a ‘lot’ of people are making that suggestion?
I’ve personally highlighted he was asked to work-out at right guard at the Senior Bowl and I fear that’s where he’ll end up. Why? Because also at the Senior Bowl he kept giving up the inside counter. Then when he over-compensated to the inside move he was getting blown off the ball with speed-to-power. He had no anchor. And he was giving ground on standard speed-rushes off the edge too. ‘Demeanour’ only gets you so far.
To me there’s a lot of concern here.
The only thing worse than having bad pass-pro is spending a top-10 pick on a tackle and still having bad pass-pro.
Get ready for big men dropping into coverage. Hurt said they won’t be doing that, but the subsequent FA moves and team interviews say otherwise. They have talked a lot about the defense being a hybrid and Pete has said it won’t be that much different from last year. They got rid of the big DEs and are replacing with smaller Leo types to be 3-4 OLB. They want to disguise where the rush is coming from. That means the non rushing DE/OLB side sometimes dropping into coverage.
I have no problem with OLB types dropping into coverage but agree with you watching DE types like Dunlap and Green (or even worse, interior DL players) was maddening.
I will say I have WAY more faith in what Sean Desai and Hurtt are doing than I did with KNJ. Plus there seems to be a new energy with the defensive decision making that I haven’t seen. I also still give them credit for making the tough call to cut Bobby.. it’s proven to be unpopular with players but was the right decision for the franchise.
I’m more excited to see how the defense will play out this year more than the past, I’ll say that.
Well, why is that a problem Forrest?
You’ve just described what happens in an effective 3-4 defense
I’m mentally preparing myself for the possibility of all 4 top rushers, 2 cbs, and Neal/Ekwonu all off the board by pick 9.
I think I’ll just be watching the draft and jump when someone takes a player besides one of these 8.
I’m mentally preparing myself for new leadership and organizational accountability in 2023.
Sean Payton Hawks 2023 coach???
I’m mentally preparing myself for breaking multiple pieces of furniture by the 4th round.
Lol…
That would be interesting but I would still run to the podium and take Davonte Wyatt, so I think there are 9 great players that virtually guarantee one falls to us, whether PC/JS picks one is a whole other story.. please don’t get cute, man.
Also, I think there are other players that are likely to come off the board. Kyle Hamilton probably won’t be there at 9. Plus, I wouldn’t be shocked to see someone pull the trigger or trade up for a QB. Jordan Davis could sneak up there however unlikely, and also could see a team take their best WR.
@Denver Hawker, who are you hoping is left at 9?
You know some team will go after Davis.
There’s always a GM or owner that HAS to have a certain player. Davis is the guy that provided the “holy crap” moment at the draft. Some team will either use their pick, or trade down as another team goes after him.
Then you have the GMs who are pressured into taking an OT or QB, because it’s what is needed, regardless of talent level.
Both seem to happen every year, and thankfully this is the year it finally benefits Seattle at 9.
Big hypothetical, but if Carroll traded the Giants for pick 7 for next year’s Seahawks original round 1, what chance would you say that they could pick both Sauce and Stingley. Essentially lock up two lockdown corners for 4 year deals and go straight back to LOB days? Worth a thought
You can’t do that
Can’t have the best starting corner duo in the league locked up for 4 years at a bargain price?