Check out some @MSU_LEEK4 highlights! Movin' on up to the @Seahawks! pic.twitter.com/ntlr5EvYFb
— Spartan Football (@MSU_Football) April 29, 2017
Build up the trenches.
That seemed to be the focus for the Seahawks not just in this draft — but over the last few years in general.
Look at the high picks they’ve spent on the O-line and D-line since 2014:
2014 — Justin Britt (R2), Cassius Marsh (R4)
2015 — Frank Clark (R2), Terry Poole (R4), Mark Glowinski (R4)
2016 — Germain Ifedi (R1), Jarran Reed (R2), Rees Odhiambo (R3)
2017 — Malik McDowell (R1), Ethan Pocic (R2), Naz Jones (R3)
You can also include Quinton Jefferson considering he cost a fifth rounder in 2016 and a fourth rounder this year.
Not all of these picks have worked out or will work out — but this looks like a concerted effort to make the O-line and D-line groups as deep and as competitive as possible.
That’s no bad thing.
Fans often look back at the 2013 roster and pine for that level of play to return. The Super Bowl winning team had a deep rotation on the D-line and a competent, physical (if unheralded) O-line.
In recent years Seattle’s O-line play has regressed as the unit got younger and their D-line depth ceded to divisional rivals Arizona and Los Angeles.
Perhaps it was time to change that?
The game against the Cardinals in week 16 possibly played a part in determining Seattle’s plan in this draft. Not only was it a great example of how impactful a great defensive line can be, it also highlighted Seattle’s inability to handle the challenge. They lost in the trenches on both sides of the ball in that game. As a consequence Seattle surrendered a bye week in the playoffs and a home divisional round game.
Seattle’s 2017 draft class
Round 2 | No. 35 overall — Malik McDowell (DT, Michigan State)
Round 2 | No. 58 overall — Ethan Pocic (OL, LSU)
Round 3 | No. 90 overall — Shaq Griffin (CB, UCF)
Round 3 | No. 95 overall — Delano Hill (S, Michigan)
Round 3 | No. 102 overall — Nazair Jones (DT, North Carolina)
Round 3 | No. 106 overall — Amara Darboh (WR, Michigan)
Round 4 | No. 111 overall — Tedric Thompson (S, Colorado)
Round 6 | No. 187 overall — Michael Tyson (S, Cincinnati)
Round 6 | No. 210 overall — Justin Senior (T, Mississippi State)
Round 7 | No. 226 overall — David Moore (WR, East Central)
Round 7 | No. 249 overall — Chris Carson (RB, Oklahoma State)
Reflections on the draft
— It’s possible to get caught up in the strength of a class sometimes. We were perhaps guilty of that with the DB’s available. It’s worth remembering what we were saying immediately after the playoff defeat to Atlanta. Here’s the piece I wrote right at the start of the off-season. What were we talking about?
“Bigger, faster, stronger has to return”
“They’ll have four picks between rounds 1-3. That should be enough to add a defensive lineman or EDGE, two defensive backs (CB, S) and a running back”
“Key veteran additions: Calais Campbell (or another interior D-liner) Veteran tackle (via trade or free agency)”
The Seahawks certainly got bigger, faster and stronger. They added two D-liner’s and two defensive backs in the first three rounds. They added a veteran tackle (Joeckel) and a running back (Lacy). And while they didn’t get Calais Campbell, Pete Carroll and John Schneider both referenced him when discussing Malik McDowell.
This class might not be what fans were expecting a few days ago — but it’s the type of class a lot of fans were asking for in January.
— The Seahawks didn’t really do anything different at cornerback this year. Walter Thurmond was the #111 pick in 2010. Shaq Griffin was the #90 pick. From now on we’ll say the earliest they’ve drafted a corner is the late third instead of the early fourth round. It’s not exactly a sea change. Seattle has a way of doing things at cornerback. They find their ‘types’ and draft to develop.
— 32-inch arms is officially more important than 77.5 inch wingspan. Shaq Griffin has 32 3/8 arms (above average for a CB) but only a 74 3/4 inch wingspan (below average for a CB). Griffin is the first corner drafted by Seattle with a sub-77.5 inch wingspan. Pete Carroll stated firmly they view Griffin as an outside cornerback. This is something to consider in future drafts.
— A year ago John Schneider mentioned a desire to become the bully again. They didn’t get there in 2016. This draft class feels like another attempt to achieve that goal. Whether it’s spending two early picks on linemen, drafting a corner who excels in run support or going back to the D-line in round three — Seattle clearly wanted to add even more physicality to this group.
— A couple of weeks ago we discussed how SPARQ is a bit of a red herring for the Seahawks and the draft. It’s regularly assumed they go with the ‘best athletes’ early and often. This draft class is further evidence that this isn’t really the case. For example, Ethan Pocic is the 76th most athletic O-liner in the class and only in the 27th percentile of pro-linemen. However, he was a top-10 TEF scorer (explosive qualities & intelligence >>> overall athleticism on the O-line). Malik McDowell ranked at #16 for defensive linemen in terms of SPARQ and is only in the 48th percentile. Delano Hill is only the 52nd ranked safety in SPARQ and is in the 32nd percentile. Tedric Thompson is in the 12th percentile and was the 95th ranked SPARQ safety. It’s not that the Seahawks don’t draft really good all-round athletes any more (see: Shaq Griffin and Amara Darboh) but this class reaffirms that they focus on unique qualities and position-specific traits.
— The Seahawks regularly refer to self-scouting and I like to do a bit of that with the blog too. We talked about a lot of different players this year. I didn’t, however, spend enough time on some of the players they drafted on day two. So that’s on me. A year ago I failed to recognise the potential of Nick Vannett landing in Seattle. This year I should’ve paid more attention to Ethan Pocic and Naz Jones in particular. My promise to this community is to keep learning lessons from every draft class to try and make the coverage interesting and resourceful.
— I have since had a chance to quickly look at some of Ethan Pocic’s tape. While the 2016 game against Alabama isn’t a particularly great O-line performance for LSU overall, Pocic certainly didn’t have a bad game. There were multiple occasions where he played beyond the whistle, blocking down and showing a nasty streak. LSU’s handful of good runs in the game came running behind Pocic at center. He wasn’t manhandled like you might expect given the poor offensive production — in fact he most definitely held his own. This was a positive performance against the best D-line rotation in college football. It’ll be intriguing to watch more of him over the next few days. According to PFF, Pocic hasn’t given up a sack or a QB hit since 11/7/2015 (16 consecutive games).
— The key to the Pocic signing appears to be versatility. Carroll noted that in the press conference following the conclusion of round three. In 2017 he can compete at both guard spots and right tackle. Let’s not underestimate how difficult it might be to re-sign Justin Britt next year though. If he commands a salary of $8-9m — the market rate for even average offensive linemen these days — the Seahawks might decide that’s too rich given their limited cap space. They chose not to pay the likes of J.R. Sweezy, James Carpenter and Breno Giacomini $5-6m a year. Ideally they’d probably like to keep Britt but it’s not a bad idea to have a contingency plan if the price is too high (and in the process avoid needing to start a rookie in 2018 if Britt does move on).
— Future and current cap savings could be a strong consideration with this draft class. Aside from Pocic/Britt — Amara Darboh potentially makes Jermaine Kearse expendable next year when they can save $5m by cutting Kearse. They’d save $6m by cutting Jeremy Lane in a year, so adding Shaq Griffin was vital. The Naz Jones signing possibly eliminates the need to re-sign Tony McDaniel or look at other veteran defensive linemen. Even Delano Hill is a possible hedge for Bradley McDougald considering he only signed a one-year contract. This could be a concerted effort to provide competition in the middle class of this roster (much needed) and make vital cap savings in the future.
— Pete Carroll and John Schneider spelled it out yesterday — they’ve been chasing a dynamic interior rusher for some time. These players are few and far between and it’s why Calais Campbell is earning $15m a year in Jacksonville. The Seahawks might be taking a small gamble on Malik McDowell considering some of the concerns about his attitude and effort (detailed here). The upside potential, however, is you get a player the rest of the league covets. There aren’t many 6-6, 295lbs defensive linemen with McDowell’s length, quickness, athleticism and power. It can be argued, quite comprehensively, that nothing will upgrade this defense more than a dynamic interior rusher. And suddenly the Seahawks have a group up front that includes Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril, Frank Clark, Jarran Reed, Athyba Rubin and Malik McDowell. If people want the 2013 defense to return — it’s worth remembering how important the D-line rotation was to the Super Bowl winning roster.
— ‘Hey Malik it’s John… don’t forget our conversation, OK?‘. Those were the words of John Schneider to Malik McDowell as Seattle made the pick. If you’re as nosey as I am, you’d really love to know what was said in that conversation!
— McDowell’s pass rush repertoire needs enhancing first and foremost. He relies on a club/swipe to attack the edge and a stunt/swim working inside. Both moves can be effective but if you’re predictable, pro O-liners will work out a counter. There’s evidence of him bull-rushing a double team into the backfield and even using a one-armed bull-rush to penetrate. He just didn’t use these kind of moves all that often. This could be the #1 thing to emphasise and promote as a rookie. If he can develop a consistently effective bull-rush, considering how powerful and long he is, he could be an impact player even in year one. It’ll also help McDowell to play within himself and more in control. He showed time and time again he can get into the backfield at MSU but he didn’t have many splash plays because he’d put his head down and charge. He doesn’t need tons of sacks — if he can move the QB and unsettle him, he can still have a big impact. A good interior bull-rush to combine with his go-to moves would be a nice start. When he lines up at DE it’d be nice to see him develop a nice inside-counter.
— We talked about this quite a lot before the draft — Seattle made free agent moves at linebacker, the secondary and on the O-line. The one area they didn’t address? Interior D-line. It seems like free agency set them up to go with McDowell.
— It appears the short shuttle is important for defensive linemen in Seattle. Malik McDowell ran an excellent 4.53 and Naz Jones a 4.63. In comparison, Jonathan Allen ran a 4.50, Tim Williams a 4.57 and Takk McKinley a 4.62. Seattle drafted Jordan Hill in 2013 after he ran a 4.51 and Jaye Howard in 2012 after he ran a 4.47. Quinton Jefferson ran a 4.37. There’s enough evidence here to suggest short area quickness is important for the Seahawks when it comes to interior D-liners.
— Delano Hill had the fifth fastest forty time by a safety at the combine. Considering he weighed 20lbs more than Budda Baker, he ran a very similar forty time (Baker 4.45, Hill 4.47). Hill’s time also compared favourably to Obi Melifonwu (4.40) and Josh Jones (4.41). All three are ‘bigger’ safety’s capable of playing in the box or as a Buffalo.
— Shaq Griffin basically had a complete workout at the combine. Aside from ticking the size/length boxes for Seattle he also had a 38.5 inch vertical, an 11-0 broad jump, a 4.14 in the short shuttle and a 4.38 forty yard dash. His physical profile is top notch — now it’s just a case of coaching him up to make the most of these physical skills.
— We’ll really study and analyse the third round picks over the next few days but here are some notes by others on the players drafted by Seattle:
Eric Galko says Naz Jones is a ‘perfect fit’ in Seattle
Tony Pauline was a big fan of Seattle’s decision to select Shaq Griffin
Ethan Young highlights Amara Darboh’s route running savviness
— Tedric Thompson is a very talented safety and a great value pick in round four. He led the NCAA in passes defended last season (23) and recorded seven interceptions and 16 PBU’s. He averaged 1.64 passes defended a game, which is a terrific number even for a defensive back. He really jumped off the screen when watching Colorado in 2016. He’s a rangy, playmaking free safety who will provide special teams value and needed depth behind Earl Thomas.
Here’s what I wrote about Thompson in a piece earlier this year:
Give him a lane to the ball carrier and he’ll get there. Throw it deep? You’re taking a chance against this type of speed. On the mid-range throws he’ll break on the ball and make a play with instinct and athleticism. It’s very difficult to fit throws into small windows at the second level with Thompson lurking. His field awareness is also good, putting him in a position to make plays and deceive quarterbacks.
This is kind of what we saw from Earl Thomas at Texas. He had eight picks in his final season in college. While Thompson will find it difficult to match Thomas’ level in the NFL — as a backup worthy of being developed over time, there are worse projects the Seahawks can take on.
— The Seahawks drafted three safety’s and signed Bradley McDougald in free agency. It’s a sign of their need to replenish the depth behind Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor. It’s also a hint that they might be willing to play more three-safety formations or really commit to more of a ‘Buffalo’ or 4-2-5 style defense.
— I’m a big fan of the Chris Carson to pick to complete the draft class. The Seahawks have a consistent profile at running back. After the combine we noted the minimal number of RB’s that fit this profile within this class:
The Seahawks have a type (explosive tester, around 5-11 and 220lbs) and the ones best matching it are Alvin Kamara, Aaron Jones, Brian Hill and Chris Carson. Kamara might be a top-45 pick and out of contention but Jones, Hill and Carson could provide day three value and extra competition.
He’s 6-0 and 218lbs, jumped a 37 inch vertical and a 10-10 broad. He was challenged by the coaches at Oklahoma State to run with greater toughness and physicality and he answered the call in 2016. Carson has a chance to compete for a roster spot — which is all you can ask for with a seventh round pick.
Kenny and I conducted a podcast at the conclusion of round seven, reviewing day three and Seattle’s draft in general:
Thanks, Rob. You, your site and the way you manage it, and so many posters posters have made me so much more aware of how complex analyzing players is.
As several other posters have mentioned, training camp competition is going to be even fiercer than ever. Current roster players have been put on notice.
Thanks for reading. Really appreciate the community we have here and how enjoyable draft season is as a consequence. Sad that we’re nearing the end for this year but already looking forward to August.
It seems like the Seahawks took care of the interior D line needs. Now it seems like we could use one more EDGE that can be an upgrade over Marsh.
Any UDFA’s edge players you guys like?
The names of lots of UDFA’s that are signing with the Hawks are flying in. Maybe an edge guy in that group?
Joe Mathis? Carroll Phillips? Or is he more of a SAM? Jimmie Gilbert, if he can put on a little weight? He has length.
Hope so, can’t believe all three are UFDAs
Marsh is such a solid backup and ST demon, though. Guys that are the 4th option at DE on a team aren’t pro-bowlers.
Thanks for another great off-season Rob!
I think flex ability & depth are the two biggest things that stand out to me with this draft. Flex ability in what position Pocic may play & what positions he could play in ’18 possibly. Flex ability also in a lot of the DB’s selected. It will be fun to see who plays CB (inside or outside) & who stays at safety. Lastly depth. Depth in the secondary & on the D-line.
Competition brings out the best in everyone. Should be a fun camp to follow!
flexibility sorry had to be that guy…
As far as UFA goes has anyone taken a look at one of Seattle’s signees, Bernard Dawson? Because based on this kids tape I’m excited lol. Looks like he’s playing against very solid competition too (UGA, West Virginia, Georgia Tec etc.)
He’s out of Georgia Southern – LB/DE/ 6’2″/245.
Tape – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL6_8c_O5e4&t=152s
To be fair, he’s not a signee. Just an invitee. But here’s to hoping he makes it!
Check out LB Devante Everette from Oklahoma St. I like LB Ironhead Gallon from Georgia Southern also.
Next year is going to be a HEAVY linebacker and defensive end class for Seattle. I think we can say that with some confidence now.
If you’re a LB who is an UFA this year, you’re going to want to go to Seattle. I can seeing signing more than normal, as agents aren’t stupid and know you get a legit chance to make a team as an UFA on the Seahawks. And the Seahawks have a need at young LBs. The fact that the Seahawks didn’t draft any LBs would make me want to sign with them if I was an UFA. You know?
I thought so too. Until the post-draft interview with JS when he said the moves they made during the off-season impacted their ability to sign UFA this year. Little disappointed by that because just like DL last year LB is a position that we not only need depth at but also need new talent to push the guys we already have on the roster too.
Great draft! If a couple become stars ans 3 or 4 become high quality players. Love this team for it’s approach and passion.
As an aside Richard Sherman doesn’t seem to buy the kumbya,but he better get on the train cause this is a hungry team,hopefully it’s also Russel Wilsons team and he takes control if he has to.
Rob, yes a hundred times to what you’ve created.It’s a perfect match to the passion of the subject.Well done
Just watched Hill’s highlights. Not bad. He gets a little lost on that Wolverine squad but he looks pretty solid.
The NFL needs coaches like Harbaugh in CFB to produce quality players that can succeed in the pros. 10 players from UM drafted this year.
“Looks pretty solid” is my concern with this draft. After Pocic, the whole batch feels like a lot of “could be a solid guy” to me, not enough “could be a valuable starter.” I mean, Darboh is being talked about as a slightly better Kearse. But after him go Josh Reynolds and Josh Malone, who could turn into legit #2 receivers, not slightly better Kearses. Delano Hill looks “solid.” That’s what you’d say about a guy whose ceiling is probably backup S and special teams guy.
Like our first two picks, think Tedric was maybe a steal, but I feel like this might have been the year to deal some of those extra later picks into a selection that would have added a guy that might have been more than “pretty solid.”
+1
It’s a win if you get “solid” players in the 3rd. They can’t all be home runs like Wilson or Lockette, but “solid” or non-superstar 3’s , like Brandon Mebane and Leroy Hill were, are not to be dismissed, especially considering the miss rate in the round. “Solid” contributes to winning football and remains relatively inexpensive. The Hawks have been missing a solid middle class for a little while now.
Quick assessment of past 3rd rounds shows it’s a “win” if you get a multi-year starter out of the 3rd round, not just solid backup/special teamer. Is that how you see these guys? I feel a bit like settling for a large quantity of just “solid” contributors in the past few years has led to this missing middle class you talked about. One Pro Bowl selection since the 2012 draft.
And in 2012 the QB they drafted was only a backup too. Etc etc.
If people were expecting obvious and clear multi year starters in the back end of R3, then you were kidding yourselves. The guys they got have a chance to develop into starters. Jones at DT, Griffin at CB, Hill at big nickel and Darboh at WR.
Darboh hasnthe even come close to his potential yet….IMO!
I guess anybody *can* develop into a starter, it just sounds like that’s not where the expectation is for a couple of these guys. Russell Wilson is not a valid comparison; he was expected to compete for the starting job. Contrast that with Boykin, who I think nobody expects to ever be the starter.
I guess I just wish we’d go away from the shotgun approach to the latter half of the draft in lieu of moving up where the sweet spot of the draft is, Rds 2-3.
Russell Wilson was drafted after they:
1. Signed a veteran QB to a big contract
2. Kept the incumbent starter
How is that a situation where he was expected to come in and not only compete but win and start immediately? He had two guys in front of him.
Naz Jones likely starts on the D-line rotation. Darboh could start with everyone down on Kearse and Lockett hurt. If not, he’ll be expected to start down the line. Delano Hill could be the big nickel this year or next year easily, if not a vital backup safety given the time missed by Kam over the years. Shaq Griffin could be the starting cornerback as a rookie if not in the future.
How is the expectation from this group not to have starters?
And who are you suggesting they passed on who would’ve provided these automatic starters?
The Denver Broncos are another team that is thought of as really good at drafting. I saw a graphic the other day that they have not drafted a pro bowl player since the 2011 draft and Von Miller (the #2 overall pick).
I think people really do not understand what occurs from the draft.
I think it’s a great point. New England went a long stretch too with several bad drafts. Then they started hitting on guys like Gronk and Hightower. It happens.
I hope you are kidding. I think John Schneider “hit it out of the ballpark”. If you listen to the phone calls it sounds to me that JS/PC got the players they targeted.
@Softykjr
Schneider said dropped back to 35 because they knew 1 of 3 players they wanted would be available. King, Robinson and Malik. Compared 4ever
They both have “issues” but I prefer the upside of McDowell to Robinson.
I would have preferred King. But it’s all good. Just a little annoying that people are going to continue to say they will never take a CB early when they wanted the CB who got taken 2 picks before them last year in the first round and then were prepared to take King this year if McDowell and Robinson would have gone.
I agree they wanted King the most, but clearly they preferred McDowell to Robinson, else they wouldn’t have traded with JAX.
And between McDowell and Robinson, I think McDowell has the higher ceiling.
I’d also add I think it’s easier to find a shut down corner than an inside rusher.
There are a handful of prospects in this draft who could develop into true shut down corners. There’s maybe 1-2 true interior rushers in this draft, and McDowell is one of them.
Such a Seahawks second round pick
Could Shaq Griffin become a shutdown corner?
Certainly hope so. He has the athletic chops and he couldn’t be in a better program to become one.
Wouldn’t that be something? Come away from this draft with a shut down corner and a true pocket-collapsing DT!
Would be awesome. If Griffin can at least become a solid starter over Shead and Lane it will have been a really good pick.
I really thought that King would be heir apparent to Sherman. I don’t like the Packers but hope he does well there.
That right there gives you great insight into how they think on day 1 of the draft. They have a list of 3 and will trade back until they have to take #1. They could’ve had any of the 3.
By picking someone in the first they could have had them under contract for 5 years instead of 4. Most of these guys will sit out 1 year and possibly 2. Then they will either be cut or make the team. Get two years production out of them and either sign them or they move on to another team. Versus 3=4 years production out of a first rounder.
By moving into the 2nd, they also gained 4 years of Tedric Thompson, so it’s a trade-off
Teams usually group players together in tiers regarding evaluation. They do not start out at #1, #2, #3, and so on. So, it makes sense that they will trade down because they will get a player that they have rated similarly.
The DL class is amazing. Not to mention the FO going out and adding to Dion Jordan to the equation who has a ton of potential if he can get healthy. According to Pete he’s up to 280 and will play 5-tech. The defensive line rotation and talent on the roster needed to be improved, and they went out this off-season and did it during the off-season and in this draft in a major way. Solid, solid class.
Can you imagine how good our DLine would be if not only Malik McDowell reaches his full potential, but also Dion Jordan does as well? And add that to Frank Clark, Mike B, Cliff Avril, Jarran Reed and even QJeff? Could be an incredible defensive line.
Definitely some talent in this group. Let’s say all seven of them make the 53 (along with Rubin & Marsh). The Hawks certainly can’t have all nine active on game day can they?
With all the DL we now have on the roster part of me is hoping that they have Jordan slim down in the hopes he can play LB. Play a “TE killer” sort of role.
Sounds like they want him to be an inside/out DLineman. Not a LB at all in our scheme, as of yet.
I’ll let you know next fall or after the 2018 season as to how much I liked this draft. 🙂
I like that they stockpiled picks and actually used them all. I have been critical of how our depth has gotten worse every year for three years. All these mid-round picks help change the talent level for the better with an eye towards the future.
Rob – love the stat you found about Pocic not giving up a sack or pressure for… like… almost ever. Russ is going to love that pick. He may not be a mauler in the run game like Ifedi, but a guy like that is needed if you want to protect your franchise QB, too.
It will be interesting to see if Pocic will be tried at RT.
Looking forward to TC OL competition!
Who wins LT, Fant or Joeckel?
Who wins RT, Ifedi or Pocic?
Nobody is beating Ifedi out of a job. He’s a starter. Just might keep him inside now if they think Pocic can play RT with those short arms.
Totally. Just wondering if he stays at RG or moves out to RT. I guess that will be determined in TC with a battle for the position.
And Pocic’s arms are on the short side for an OT, but I wouldn’t call them short overall.
Everyone on the blog would have last week.
For a tackle.
For a true tackle, yes. But not for a true 2-for-1 OL. A guy who legit can play any position on the line, and gives them a viable option at C if it goes down bad with Britt after next season.
Between Odihambo and Pocic, those 2 guys can play everywhere.
I hope Ifedibsta u should at RT. He is just made for that spot.
Ifedi stays that is.
Competition could look like this:
LT- Joeckel, Fant
LG- Glow, Pocic, Odi
C- Britt, Pocic, Hunt
RG- Oboushi, Pocic, Glow, Odi
RT- Ifedi, Odi, Pocic
Rees has stated his desire for the left side.
Breno’s arms are almost a full 1″ shorter than Pocic’s. Not that Breno is a pro-bowler, but it can be done.
Definitely. That’s why I thought people were wrong for writing Lamp off as a potential LT just because of his arms. Joe Thomas has alligator arms, too.
He played there some in 2016 and looked good.
Thanks Rob for keeping this such a great place to read about and discuss football. I don’t post here that frequently but enjoy the conversations.
Despite the disappointment of the ‘Hawks not drafting our favorite players (an inevitability of course), it’s still fun to see to which teams all the prospects go, except perhaps when it’s my guys (mostly UW Huskies) going to hated rivals (damn you Green Bay! and Arizona!).
I’m so looking forward to all the new team members and rookie camp invites competing for spots, as well as my first game at C-Link (preseason vs. KC) since the 2010 Beastquake playoff game.
Does anyone know of a reliable site to keep track of udfa signings?
Jared stranger on twitter is what I use
Has he finished dictating and influencing the Seahawks draft plans?
He just finished a call to JS and PC where he scolded them for going off-script. Then he retweeted any possible mention of this year’s draft picks from his past.
LOL
Field Gulls is doing it as well.
Thanks, just what I wanted.
I can’t believe he thinks that. Dude is just….off. Weird.
I kinda laugh at how frustrated he is by how off he was.
But I temper that with thinking that he might be a little “special” , and invested to an irrational and unhealthy degree.
Apparently he thinks that the Niners read his stuff. 😂
It sure look’s like the Raiders, Green Bay and Jag’s do. 🙂
That as funny
I couldn’t stop laughing when I read this. Rob you are THE best!
The dude blocked me obviously for a comment I made on here because I barely know how to use twitter!
Got blocked because I called ciara Delilah.
Super sensitive……lololol
Honestly, immon wibbthe draft. I can see the value in most of the picks. I wanted a guy like Bucky Hodges and Samaje Perine. I’m still annoyed at the free agency mistakes. Let’s face it. Joelle over other guys was a glaring mistake, especially finding out they didn’t get him for a league minimum deal. Let’s see if they can get back to bulky ball and get back to the super bowl. Thanks Rob. Great offseason once again.
For all the OL tape I saw last year, how have I never watched Justin Senior.
I’ve watched a grip of Pocic all year, but he seemed like a tryhard (in a good way) but not the athlete we go for.
Unique size for a Center.
Britt could be out RG or RTfor a year
Or Pocic at guard and Britt stays. Hunt could be gone.
Hunt might be the LS, if things play out right
I don’t see that. Your LS has to run and cover kicks.
What is Hunt’s 40 time lol.
Probably the same as Darreus Rogers
Ha. Poor D-Rog. Still not sure why we signed him. Chip on the shoulder guy perhaps?
I still want Scalzi. Don’t know what his situation is.
Lots of fun following the draft this year with the blog. Excited about the Seahawks draft class and some of the UDFA’s they’ve picked up as well. Lots of competition, will be fun to see who stands out in camp and pre season.
thanks Rob for all the hard work.
I find the site informative and entertaining
I have NO IDEA where you find the time to do it all, but if you can tell us all how you discovered an 8th day of the week or a 30 hour day, you can tell us and we will keep your secret. I promise:)
Oh snap! Love the Jordan Roos signing!
Said we debated drafting him.
Anybody that wants to work with this OL is a keeper in my book
He put up 41 reps on the bench! I don’t know his measurements of his arms and hands, but that is crazy strong.
Full Review of Seattle’s best draft class since 2012
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t8eGy7M5aSqqA5Yx2jVgqq2-OoFlnMJ7G4jHLRzkVTY/edit?usp=sharing
Seattle crushed the draft on day 2, with a great mix of high upside prospects and NFL ready talent.
Pre-draft scouting reports included on Malik McDowell, Ethan Pocic (post-draft), Shaquill Griffin & their best value pick – Delano Hill.
I managed to omit 7 of 11 Seattle picks from the pre-draft Big Board – it just goes to show how unpredictable the draft is, even for a team with well-established tendencies like Seattle. I really like the readiness and upside of Seattle’s day 2 picks, and several rookies will make an impact in 2017.
Go Hawks!
Impressive work
Good stuff JT. Nice work
Great work, JT!
That spread is excellent.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/4/29/15442116/undrafted-free-agent-signings-tracker-2017-nfl-draft
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000804999/article/top-undrafted-free-agents-following-the-2017-nfl-draft?campaign=tw-nf-sf74764750-sf74764750&utm_source=Direct
Al Riles WR UL to Seattle.
Michael Bennett
Cliff Avril
Frank Clark
Dion Jordan
Malik McDowell
Quinton Jeffreson
Jarran Reed
Nazair Jones
Ahtyba Rubin
If it comes together, could be the best D-line in the league. Watch out for Dion Jordan unlocking his potential.
Kam Chancellor
Earl Thomas
Bradley McDougald
Delano Hill
Tedric Thompson
Is what the safety group will look like imo
This draft seems to also let us know that they just font seem to care about the SAM. No linebackers drafted, and the FA they brought in are more back up/special team guys. The more I look at the haul the happier I am. Go Hawks!
I’m liking this Mike Tyson pick more and more. I really think he’s our project DB. A Maxi if you will.
And I’m liking Hill more and more.
I hate this draft, it is so much like 2012 😉
Yeah, I’m really starting to dig on him a lot myself. Honestly, this might end up being one of my favorite draft classes when all is said and done, and I love the #$% out of last year’s draft class and 2012.
I wonder if he bites anyone’s ear off?
2 WR drafted, plus more in UDFA/camp invitees.
Looks like they want to push Kearse off the roster in 2018 (save $5m against the cap).
Couldn’t believe they bothered resigning him to begin with.
I wonder if Sherman has told him he’s “mediocre…. at best” yet!
I have too think so, he is terrible on the field and at ditching school speeches last minute
Loved the draft. Too early to say for sure, yeah it is. But right now I’m very excited. Addressed the 3 most important needs in abundance.
McDowell is a perfect for a culture like Seattle. He’s gonna be around guys that go hard all game. It’ll make him raise or up his game in the process.
Love that Seattle went young in this draft for a change. Its a future draft and that’s OK. They needed depth more than anything. Cost us last years season.
Pocic is the ideal 2 for 1 OL isn’t he?
Shaq is my favorite pick. He’s got the swag, personality and that NFL DB memory. What just happened before actually didn’t happen. On to the next one.
Carbon can be a Ricardo Lockett with nuanced route running. What a story.
Naz is just a solid, solid pick. Allows Seattle to go big on early downs.
Love the Carson and Thompson picks too.
Personally I felt like they knocked it outta the park.
* Hill is just the quintessential Seahawk DB. Versatile, big, aggressive, best around the LOS, over looked, and a STs demon.
Starting to agree on Hill. Just getting to know him now. And I like what I’ve seen so far.
SEA took a big risk with McDowell. His potential is sky high but there are some legit attitude concerns. If the SEA culture and locker room can motivate him, he could be the pick of the draft for any team.
There are. He is only 20 which blows my mind so he’s a kid. And I think at times he acts like it. Feels like a recruit PC would’ve been all over at USC and turned into the next big thing.
Hey a bad ‘tude isn’t always a bad thing. If he can harness it and use it to become pissed off for greatness, he could be truly dominant. Calais Campbell dominant.
I think the risk is a bit overblown and the F.O. recognized that. He’s a 20 year old kid playing out of position at nose tackle, on a terrible defense, not a single good player on that D but him, down after down all of his efforts were wasted, playing through high ankle sprain at the same time, and Schneider mentioned his friends on the line who left after 2015, I can see why that kind of situation would make a 20 year old kid feel dejected. And it’s nothing like the situation he’ll be facing on the Seahawks. If anything, he’ll appreciate it here even more.
This is the pick we’ve been waiting for for years. McDowell will transform this defense.
Agree but it will take time
Looks like Gabe Marks signed with NYJ
Bob Condotta mentioned that when it was rumored he signed. Said it sounded iffy.
He would’ve struggled to make it here.
Loved spending another draft season here. Wouldn’t of been anywhere else.
Rob puts out content like this excellent piece on the daily and like he said ‘self scouts’ instead of not liking something because it wasn’t who he was tweeting out and trying to influence Seattle’s FO to draft. Jesus. What a douche that guy is.
As for ‘self scouting?’ Next year we gotta look at the guys, all of us, who aren’t getting attention or are under appreciated in the scouting community.
Anyways its a bit depressing this is ending. But enjoyed every minute of it.
All hail SDB! And GO Hawks!
Thanks to Rob and the community!
Thanks to you V12. You made some serious contributions to this community my man.
Yeah you regular commentors have no idea of the value you bring to this blog for a guy like me. When I scroll down and there are like 300 comments….. it’s almost like reating a whole nother article. So many points of view yet everyone’s so respectful! This is an awesome place to be and you guys definitely have a lot to do with it! THANKS!!
Thank you, Volume 12! You and Rob make this whole thing roll. No question.
Here here
All hail!! Let us pitch in Rob. You da man. You too Vol, always dropping knowledge. Rob, what’s the early 2018 spots, you know you have them? Who is the Reddick that nobody talks about that you talk about 8 months before the world?
+1
Ending? There is trainig camp, pre season then the main show… THE 2017 NFL SEASON… not to mention college football 😍… then back to draft discussion
Ok~ we are not getting Mathis. We didn’t get Hikutini to make up for not adding a TE. One move I’ve wanted for two years is to get Trey Griffey. A sentimental move, but he’s also a big receiver that could help us.
I will be sad if we don’t get him. Met with him last week.
Scalzi still out there I think.
Carroll Phillips is a jag. Makes sense because they drafted his teammate.
Dalton Crossan to Colts.
DAVIS HSU saying Numbers killing UDFA. They got Hikutini and KD Cannon.
Niners *
I dunno. The Numb-ers suits them pretty well.
Who’s everyone’s favorite draft pick?
Mine is Amara Darboh.
Mine is Malik
TJ Watt
Right now, Shaq. Then Carson.
But Malik easily could be number one. It’s all in his attitude.
Malik McDowell. Lots of SDB family members freaked out with this pick, but I flipping loved it. I think the thing to keep in mind, is that this big fella is twenty years old. He’s a pup. I can’t think of a better situation for him to come into this league, get humbled a bit, and learn from the Jedi Master, Michael Bennett. This is a fantastic pickup for Seattle, and I’m glad they had the conviction to grab him.
That said, I like a lot of these players. Lost a bit in it, I think there is something really cool going on with Nazir Jones. Loved listening to him speak last night. Seems like a really solid dude, and personable. IMO, I think there’s a chance Pete might have found his next Red Bryant. Really like this guy.
I like the Malik pick best too….
ukhawk says:
April 18, 2017 at 9:25 am
Some very good points made questioning McDowell’s character, intensity, skill set and I agree all these concerns are valid.
That said, I think he should be a target in R2; especially considering the strong locker room, coaching staff & excellent winning atmosphere Seattle can offer.
Really enjoyed Brett Kollman’s video review of McDowell & liked some of the points made. Ultimately he is a prospect with elite physical tools who flashed dominant skills in run & pass and who is very young & under developed. He undoubtedly wore down (mentally & physically) as the bad year progressed at MSU but as with many DT prospects, his intensity & dedication have been questioned.
Personally I believe he is similar to Calais Campbell in terms of make-up & upside. A guy who also slipped into R2, who was also questioned for similar concerns coming out of Miami, a guy with a unique skill set who can play inside/out, made multiple pro bowls and a guy who we wanted to sign in the offseason.
Definitely not in R1 but maybe a risk to take in R2
Malik for sure, I really like all of these picks, though. Shaw, Darboh are great picks, too. Carson is a badass
Delano Hill
Gotta go with the local kid Darboh! West Des Moines, Iowa stand up! Can’t wait to see him make the plays that Keats couldn’t!
Favorite as a player would be Shaq. But my favorite position (besides QB) in all of football is the 3 tech in a 4-3 Def or the DE in a 3-4, so the player I am more excited to see if he pans out is Malik. Those humans are few and far between.
Rang mentions that Pocic had 128.5 knockdowns, the highest number for an LSU lineman since 2010. Guy must have some nasty to him.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/top-nfl-draft-prospects-ethan-pocic-is-the-next-lsu-blocker-with-a-pro-future/
Pocic is interesting. Best offensive linemen on LSU apparently. I do think he can play tackle if they want him there. Not sure if he would be better on one side or the other. Nasty blocker. I have great hopes for him. I’m assuming the Seahawks try out a lot of UDFA offensive linemen just in case they find another gem.
It seems like the Seahawks are going away from trying to find those “ultra athletes” to play the OLine. Maybe they are finding that doesn’t really work? If so, I’m glad they have the ability to look at themselves objectively and make that call. Obviously a 6th round or 7th round pick is not that big of a deal, but Sweezy was really an exception to the rule. He is a special player who is just a good football player, and I think would have been solid on the OL or the DL. They were right about that one.
But they were definitely wrong about Jared Smith & especially Kristjan Sokoli. Sokoli was a blog favorite to be the OL convert because he is basically the most athletic OLineman in the history of OLineman. But not only were they wrong, they were nowhere close to being in the ballpark of right. What we found out about Sokoli is perhaps what we’re finding out about scouting OL in general: high athleticism is just a blip on the map in terms of the overall path to being a good lineman. You can’t just be athletic. You also have to be really, really good at football.
A few final words at the end of draft season:
1 – highest regards for Rob, and the forum he has created here. Simply awesome
2 – will we ever learn how difficult it is to forecast (even in the broadest terms) a Seattle draft? Who on this forum targeted any of Seattle’s picks? Don’t be shy, or worry about bragging: I am really curious. I will start: ZERO. Not one player I thought would be drafted by the Seahawks was drafted. In fact, I score a negative 1, because I was certain McDowell wouldn’t be.
3 – one thing that occurred to me during the Sherman trade talks: I think PC prefers coaching young, hungry, highly motivated, athletic prospects with potential. That’s one of the reasons for trading down and using all the picks. Nobody knows (including PC) who will stand out, work the hardest, play the best. But we can know that several will emerge from this class, and contribute, if not actually dominate.
4 – this was the draft that was required to restock the pipeline for the d-line and secondary.
5 – if I understand correctly, based on PC and JS’s comments during the day 2 press conference, Pocic was always the target, and they were sweating him lasting to 58. They even said they discussed trading up to get him. Can you imagine the reaction on the blog if it was announced that Seattle traded up (“They’re going to draft Obi!”) and then announced a center? Mayhem.
6 – speaking of Pocic, while not the sexy pick, or one we even discussed, he may be the missing piece that puts together an effective line for 2017, and perhaps a good one beyond.
7 – as for McDowell, it’s already been said, but the possibility of obtaining the next Campbell is pretty exciting. Dominant d-lines have won more than one Super Bowl.
I like the Pocic pick. I don’t know about his knockdowns and all that, but I noticed that he seemed to win more the longer the down went. IOW, he seemed to get knocked back with an initial punch or maybe beat on the first step (maybe because he’s so high, with his height?), but he recovers really well, resets and generally wins as the matchup continues. Does he have a wrestling background? Once he’s squared up and it’s a wrestling match, so to speak, he seems to win.
Normally I don’t like the idea of placing a lot of value on versatility. Too much like you don’t trust your scouting staff to pick guys that fit your scheme. I mean, if I want a boundary corner, I want the best dang one you can get. Not the 5th best one because he could also play safety if he doesn’t work out at corner, or he can also return punts in a pinch, etc. But in this case, Pocic’s versatility actually is valuable b/c of the chance of Britt moving on for a big contract if he plays well.
The instant push from defenders lined up over him concerns me deeply. Maybe that won’t happen at RG as badly since he doesn’t have to snap the ball. He needs to start though, based on the investment and it should be at RG where we have less contenders/investment. I have my reservations after watching his tape for sure, and I can’t just keep giving them the benefit of the doubt at OL. That said, they must see something that isn’t visually evident to me in him so I will hope for the best! I think it’s just a philosophical difference though, becasue versatility is a dirty word to me for the OL, we don’t need 4 swing players – we need a quality starting RG so Ifedi can be the quality starting RT he was brought here to be. Let Glow, Fant, Joekel, Oboushi, Odhiambo, my mom, Pericak, Burbank, Myers, and Senior fight out the left side and let the rest of them fight for backup jobs.
I agree with your points, and coincidentally I also starting falling the Hawks in 1977!
hmm. must have been a good year (although it was a drought for a LONG time)
I want this for our O line:
LT: Fant/ Joeckel competition
LG: Glowinski, Odhiambo
C: Britt, Hunt
RG: Aboushi, Pocic competition
RT: Ifedi, Pocic
Senior could be the RT backup too if he makes it
LT: Joeckle, Fant
LG: Glowinski, Odhiambo
C: Pocic, Hunt
RG: Ifedi, Aboushi
RT: Britt, ????
?? = Justin Senior
Jordan Roos in play at guard spots
Please don’t put Britt at tackle again. 🙁
So many needs filled in this draft
Interior rusher? Got him.
Versatile OL competition? Got it.
Hyper athletic Corner? Third round pick.
Safety depth? We took 3.
Big bodied, tall 3 tech? Bye bye Tony McD.
Explosive, sparqy RB competition? A blog favorite.
Udfa isn’t over and there’s already at least two I really like.
So far looking like our best draft in years
Well said Kenny
Cheers to you and your patient significant other Rob. It has been an interesting and informative year for everyone who participates on SDB. The best site out there. Thank you for all of your insightful Knowledge and running such a congenial forum. It is nice to get up in the A.M. and delve in and not have to read a bunch of negative rhetoric. I remember a few years back it wasn’t quit like that. A lot of good informative people participate now. That’s refreshing.
I was a little bummed to see King, Obi and Biegle go right before we picked. As far as McDowell goes the trenches come first and rightly so. Take a chance on greatness,right? They know what they are doing. No doubt!!! The more I delved into the pick’s I came to the conclusion it was a pretty darn good class. Lot’s of quality depth to work with. Thanks again, Robb!!! GO HAWKS!!!!!
Nothing was as gut wrenching as Kyler Fackrell getting swooped up by Green Bay last year.
Obi to Oakland was close haha
Perfectly put
Right on Kenny. Best post I’ve read in a long time.
I’ve come a long way with this draft class in the past few hours.
First I had to deal with all my “wrongs” going into the Draft. Then fearing the unfamiliar which is why I didn’t originally see the draft like I do now, like you so eloquently and correctly put.
Perfect draft, upgraded the team!
Swoopes from Texas trying out TE for the Hawks. Awesome! Next Jordan reed?
Naw. He’ll do better after he leaves the Hawks ala Pryor
I’ve added a podcast to the bottom of the piece (recorded a moment ago by Kenny and I).
Wanted to thank the community one more time for all the kind words and your support during this draft season. We’ll start taking a closer look at the players they drafted tomorrow.
Thank you Rob. Best year yet.
We’ll do even better next season!
Thanks for creating a positive Seahawk community.
+100,000
Amen.
Rob. You are the one who deserves most of the thanks. Your analysis has been great and I’m not happy you are knocking yourself for missing Pocic. It’s not really about being correct but the process, learning, growing with, studying & the social aspect of discussing a team we all love with great people in the forum. You make that possible a facilitate a wonderfully friendly and collegial atmosphere. You put in a ton of work. Can’t say thanks enough.
Does anybody know who takes over at middle LB if Wagner goes down injured?
Could be a good Idea to add an inside LB or even someone who also could play Will,
Since Wagner and kJ Wright played 99% (!!!) of the snaps at their postions last year.
Just a thought…
Arthur Brown
I think our LB depth might be our #1 concern right now. KJ, Bobby, and then a bunch of JAG’s.
Really wish we had tried to trade up and get Bowser.
KJ would move inside.
I think Wilhoite can play ILB as well as SLB.
Although, 49ers fans hated him and were saying he was the reason the run D was so bad. But also, the 49ers D was just horrible in general.
Is anyone else pretty surprised about how Seahawks handled linebacker this year? Carroll made it sound like he wanted to go get some day 1/2 LBs and we came out of the draft with this many linebackers:
0.0
How are Wagner and Wright going to be challenged by Michael Wilhoite, Terrence Garvin and Arthur Brown?
Or maybe all the LB talk was just a smokescreen to get teams taking LBs early?
I just wonder if Carroll made those remarks thinking Haason Reddick would be available in R1 or R2.
Then he lit up the Senior Bowl and moved his stock wayyyyy up.
Because Reddick seems so much like a Seahawk — and Schneider name checked Reddick in Thursday’s press conference.
Interesting. No matter who was there seemed like Seahawks were picking defense first round no matter what.
I dont see the taking plays off that some of you see again he played all year with a high ankle sprain. Most guys cant even play with nevermind. walk with it but he played some dominate games with it. I have no doubt he will be great because he has a reason if he wants a big contract. They said Clowney took plays off in college and look at him now. My next jersey will be a McDowell jersey.
I’m not overly concerned about the taking plays off. The Seahawks deal well with that kind of stuff. I think it’s unlikely he will do that here.
That being said, I did see some Myles Garrett-style jogging to the pile. I saw one play, I think against Wisconsion, where McDowell was jogging to the pile right before the ball popped loose. I think MSU recovered the fumble anyway, but he’s got to finish plays and not assume it’s over.
That’s one of Pete’s M.O.’s. Never assume the play is over.
I love McDowell’s talent!
If he wants,he becomes proboller easily.
My goodness, we drafted a hitter named Mike Tyson at 1-8-7 ?!!!! Too Sick
That was perfect. Didn’t quite beat this one though:
Shawne LIGHTS OUT Merriman announces CHARGERS’ Forrest LAMP pick at the place where ELECTRICITY was discovered.
Thinking to myself: Dion Jordan was a brilliant signing. Could serve as motivation for McDowell.
Anyone have a good link to review all of Seattle’s undrafted free-agent signings?
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/4/29/15478418/seahawks-2017-undrafted-free-agent-signings-tracker-udfa-seattle-pete-carroll-draft-college
I myself am just fine with this draft haul. I’m especially good with the Pocic pick. The more I read about him the more I like him. Not the athletic freak we were all hoping for but — hold on to your hats, ‘Hawks fans — he blocks his man. Remember the old days, when a lineman attempted to, you know, block the guy in front of him? Ah, those were the days.
And he doesn’t give up sacks!
53 man roster projection:
offensive line (10)
Luke Joeckel
George Fant
Rees Odhiambo
Justin Senior
Mark Glowinski
Ethan Pocic
Justin Britt
Joey Hunt
Okay Aboushi
Germaine Ifedi
Runningback (4)
Eddie Lacy
Thomas Rawls
Cj Prosise
Chris Carson
Wide Receiver (6)
Doug Baldwin
Jermaine Kearse
Tyler Lockett
Paul Richardson
Amara Darboh
Tanner McEvoy
Tight end: (3)
Jimmy Graham
Luke Willson
Nick Vannet
Quarterback: (2)
Trevone Boykin
Russell Wilson
Defense:
D-Line:
Michael Bennett
Cliff Avril
Frank Clark
Dion Jordan
Malik McDowell
Quinton Jefferson
Jarran Reed
Nazair Jones
Ahtyba Rubin
Linebackers: (6)
Bobby Wagner
KJ Wright
Cassius Marsh
Arthur Brown
Terrance Garvin
Kevin Pierre-Louis
Secondary:
Kam Chancellor
Earl Thomas
Bradley McDougald
Delano Hill
Tedric Thompson
Richard Sherman
Jeremy Lane
Shaquille Griffen
Neiko Thorpe
Deandre Elliot
Special teams:
Jon Ryan
Blair Walsh
no idea…
At this point, the only thing I hate about our team is back-up QB. I just believe the QB position should be held to a higher standard and that this is the most important position in sports. That makes it even more important to have a capable back-up, not someone who is always on probation, getting arrested, or whatever. That’s for DL, LB, DB, OL, TE, WR, RB, etc. Not QB.
It seems like Seahawks prefer a veteran backup quarterback, look at all the years they held on to Tavaris. So I’m guessing they will look for a free agent that is cut during preseason. A couple teams are QB heavy including San Francisco. Bound to cut 3 QBs there. Also there is the Chicago situation with Glennon but he already makes big bucks. Maybe they can poach Stanton from Arizona.
Nice, only things I would have different is David Moore instead of McEvoy, and Mike Tyson over KPL.
Really? I love McEvoy. Produced every time he was out there
Me too, Cut kearse and keep McEvoy and David Moore if he outperforms Kearse. That catch Kearse made in the superbowl was one of the best ever, but he has caused so many interceptions in his career with us. I am just ready move on and see what others can do with his spot. But definitely high on McEvoy. They should have played him more last year, especially in the red zone.
too early to tell. Going to be fun competition. I gave McEvoy the nod because of his height and his qb experience.
True, definitely too early to tell, but I’d take the upside, with Kearse sucking, Lockett coming back late, Richardson being injury prone would help get him some playing time. Also, him and Darboh are unlike any other receiver on our roster, they’re outside guys.
Need at least one more RB. Prosise and Rawls aren’t durable enough. Carson is too unknown to project over Collins and Poe at this point.
One less OL. Hunt is possibly unnecessary. Senior unlikely to develop this year and goes to PS.
Last spot in WR group I think is more open to competition.
Last two to three spots in DB group also likely open to competition.
D Line, LB, TE group looks likely.
Michael Wilhoute at LB
possible… gave garvin the nod because of his special teams prowess
I am assuming Shead is on IR in your 53?
Alex Collins takes a step forward and beats out both Rawls and Carson. …
Beats out Rawls?!
The Seahawks will probably only have 8 or 9 OL. If they keep 9 OL, I don’t think he’s on the roster yet. Might be Breno.
I know we get all caught up in the big names for the draft, but there’s not a pick here I don’t like. Some good talent.
Rob – I can tell you kind of hate some of my questions to a degree – I am sorry – but you have developed the best Seahawks knowledgeable community to a degree on the ‘net…
If the Seahawks ever play in England… I’d like to take you, your wife, and two kids out to eat somewhere (on me). Love your stuff. Don’t agree with all of it, but do with most of it. Yes – MOST – of it. Love your passion and appreciate your blog. Great work!
I love your questions Bobby!
And thanks for the offer, now we just need to convince the Hawks to play one of their roads games over here 🙂
Only if they don’t have to give up a home game 😉
Nice rundown. I can’t wait to dig into these new players. I absolutely agree that we drafted toughness and mentalities that fit our team – enforcers and bullys; competitive, smart players.
I thin we absolutely drafted to play a Safety at ‘big nickle’. We now have more guys with size and speed who can cover.
Build the Trenches has long been a philosophy I like and it’s good to see us take steps in that direction.
This draft they picked a lot more safeties than I expected. Plus the free agent they got. I’m thinking this will serve a combo. They may play three safeties. One or two of them would be good backups. One or two of them would take over if the current safeties leave the team due to injury or better offers. Basically they have a year to train them, and I am expecting to see Kam Chancellor let go after this season. Earl Thompson it will depend on his health. I’m not trying to be a downer, safety is a physically demanding position. Teams have to plan for the future, and with this draft it is evident that Seahawks are seriously planning on replacing one or both safeties as their contracts expire.
I think they’re definitely hedging against that possibility, but they’ll extend Kam if they can. Same on the other side of the ball with Pocic and Britt.
I think this draft (and free agency) also demonstrated their commitment to the 4-2-5 scheme going forward.
This draft makes more sense the more you think about it. One of the things I like most is that not only did we get a high upside big, tall, fast receiver, we got 2. This is going to allow Baldwin, Lockett and Richardson to stick in the slot, where they’re best.
We could have Darboh as the new X receiver, Baldwin outside too, Lockett in the slot and Richardson in the other slot, with Jimmy. Albeit no running backs
I know/care fairly little about college FB and depend mightily on others for insight into the next wave of players — thank you for all your work, Rob. Not only is it insightful and digestible, but you never fall into the trap so many others do of reacting to unanticipated picks with an immediate “I don’t know the guy — he must be awful!” or a similar kneejerk response. Always a joy to read your stuff, and I look forward to seeing more in the future.
I see McDowell as our new 3-tech pass rusher. Ethan Pocic as a RG, Shaq Griffen as a our outside corner of the future, Delano Hill as a long rangy Inside slot corner and a backup at SS, Nazair Jones as our big DT, Amara Darboh as a outside WR and a future Kearse replacement, Tedric Thompson as our backup rangy backup to Earl Thomas with good ballskills and can play some nickel. I see Mike Tyson as a developmental Outside Press corner for the future, Justin Senior as a developmental swing tackle, David Moore as a developmental Wr thats fast and strong and will contribute on special teams, and lastly Chris Carson as a strong, downhill runner that will run you over and keep on moving.
Hopefully Tony McD can stay on our ghost roster and come back if Jones gets injured/doesn’t pan out this year.
Regular reader here, but first time posting. Just wanted to drop a note to Rob and the SDB gang to say thanks for making this draft season (and past seasons) such an enjoyable experience. I appreciate the respectful spirit of inquiry that’s maintained here, and can honestly say this place has improved the football-fandom experience for me as a whole. The quality of research that goes into the posts here (and subsequent comment threads) is only rivaled by the civility of the SDB community.
I really think we’re looking at an exciting future as hawks fans. This D-line could be freakin monstrous, and I feel optimistic about this crop of young DBs. Hell, I’m even a little optimistic that our O-line can take a real step forward this year, maybe even be stable for a few years (whoa, lets not get carried away here).
Whatever happens, I look forward to the journey, and I look forward to reading along as you all uncover football treasures for future drafts. Thank you all, and GO HAWKS!!
Pretty sure Dion Jordan is gonna play with his hands up, right?
Rob, thank you so much for a truly great year. Enjoy the family time and recharge your batteries. Thanks to all the ‘usual suspects’ as well. With all due appreciation; Go Hawks!
Looking at our 2018 free agents (all unrestricted btw) I can’t help but feel relieved. Kam is the only one I’m worried might leave. Graham will be tagged, Britt will be extended, everyone else i dont really care if they leave.
Wondering about Justin Senior…
Anyone heard what PCJS have said about him?
He will start out at Left Tackle and like his junior tape at 295 as to his not so good senior tape at 315
John Schneider praised his pass pro, and Pete Carroll said he will be tried on the left side.
I’ll watch some tape later and make an assessment.
He’s a first year practice squad guy all the way. Needs to lose about 25 pounds.
Don’t forget about Marcus Lucas and Rodney Smith.
Although I think 3tech is Malik’s best spot, he was well regarded as a 5tech in a 34. He would fit the old Red Bryant role (elephant?) also. He’s versatile enough to do both. We can use a variety of looks and have devastating run defense and pass rushing on the same fronts. Excited about McDowell. He will be a monster in our defense. 3-tech DT has long been a bit of a sore spot. No more! Reed-McDowell-Jefferson (+Rubin) and Avril-Bennett-Clark? Sick DT and Edge rotation. 4th quarter leads will be fun when we turn the dogs loose!
Don’t forget DION JORDAN
I hope he makes the team.
I thought Malik could play elephant as well Misfit. He’s strong enough to maintain the edge vs the run, and also fast enough to be a legit pass rushing threat from outside, even from wide 9.
The question is, does Malik start? If yes, where?
McDowell–Bennett–Reed–Avril?
or
Avril–McDowell–Reed–Bennett?
I would say base downs wold still have Rubin start, then McDowell comes in on passing situations year 1. That would be my guess.
First down:
Avril-Reed-Rubin-Bennett
2nd and 7+
Avril-Reed-McDowell-Reed
Third and long ( watch the f**k out)
Avril-Bennett-McDowell-Clark
Bennett on 2nd and 7
I loved the Tedric Thompson pick for Seattle. I won’t say he’s a poor man’s Malik Hooker. Better than that. Middle class Malik Hooker. The safety position remains underrated and instincts are virtually everything at that position. Reshad Jones is a nice box player for the Dolphins but it doesn’t mean much because his pass defense instincts are so mediocre, at best.
Speaking of a similar player, it was amusing during the player highlights of an offense facing LSU to see Jamal Adams either doing nothing or being abused (Florida running play).
I have no idea how Rob can be annoyed at himself for failing to identify Pocic or Naz Jones. As an outsider I never would have imagined Seattle’s interest in Malik McDowell without sampling this blog. Well done.
Pressure up the middle is everything. If McDowell provides that, this draft is a success. As a native Miamian I’m a lifelong Canes fan. During their heyday they one premier interior disruptor after another. It was ridiculous…Jerome Brown, Russell Maryland, Cortez Kennedy, Warren Sapp, Vince Wilfork. Once that streak ended, so did the glory years. Hardly a coincidence.
Pocic reminds me of recent Patriot offensive linemen. They find smart versatile guys and spend virtually nothing on guards and centers.
Too bad NFL Network doesn’t show the shuttles and jumps at the combine. I had no idea Naz Jones ran such a quick shuttle. During individual drills he looked out of shape and less athletic than his norm.
I can’t stand the NFC cupcake passing teams like Green Bay, Atlanta and New Orleans. The Seahawks need to get their act together and physically smack those teams around again.
Yes, I am in favor of the bully attitude, and getting back to intimidating teams, not trying to out finesse or trick other teams. Just bust ’em in the mouth and run over them. That takes a certain kind of player, and I see some of those elements in this draft group.
“Pressure up the middle is everything. If McDowell provides that, this draft is a success.”
This is the simple truth. If MM can reach even 75% of his potential over the next few years then this draft will be a success. He will have the resources(Bennett/ Jordan for what to do/what not to do) and opportunity to make an impact day 1. Does Malik want to be great? Sure hope so!
That’s a solid take on comping Pocic to the Patriot O-linemen. It’s going to be really interesting to see where his spot ends up being.
FYI, Cortez Kennedy is my favorite Seahawk player of all time. It was a totally waisted decade of the 1990s when he was in Seattle, Ken Behring owned the team, went through three different head coaches, and couldn’t settle the quarterback position. The dude was a flat out BEAST, a team player, and deserved to be in the post season regularly. When he really got there in 1999, they were one and done in the wild card round when Mike Holmgren took over, Jon Kitna was the QB, and your Dolphins bounced them out at the Kingdom. Next year, he retired.
I remember being devastated when Cortez was going to leave Seattle. The news said “Cortez is unhappy and he wants out.” He was initially trying to latch on with another team, had a tryout with the Rams I believe. They never signed him though. Which is a shame because that was the year they won the Superbowl.
Would have been good to see Cortez get a ring, even if it was with the Rams that year.
Having watched his tape against Oklahoma and TCU, I can say that I really like Chris Carson! Reminds me of Rawls’ mentality as a runner, and he looks a lot faster in pads than his 4.58 40 time would indicate. Not just a lower-the-shoulder runner, but one that maintains good balance and shows solid vision as well.
Apparently, the team asked him to be more physical in his running, and it really shows when comparing his ’15 tape with the ’16 tape. He is not particularly fast, but he is powerful and can see the hole. Some promise there.
He really does have the look of a feature back. Maybe the next Mike Gillislee?
So far… UDRFA signings on CBSSPORTS . com
Skyler Howard, QB, West Virginia
Hayden Plinke, TE, UTEP
Tyrone Swoopes, QB, Texas (signed to play tight end)
Jordan Roos, G, Purdue
Tony Bridges, DB, Ole Miss
Darreus Rogers, WR, USC
So where is our backup QB. I wonder if they might bring in a vet.
I still want us to bring Kaepernick in. I don’t think it will happen. Some teams now have serious QB needs now that they didn’t draft one. I think that after the draft, the market is down to, really, 2 teams: the Jets, the Jaguars and the Bills. Those are the three teams that still have legit questions about who their starting QB will be in 2017. That is not much of a market and I don’t think Kaep is going to get more than $4-5m. I could see a scenario where the Seahawks can land Kaepernick for one year at $1.5-3m including incentives if they want him.
3 teams lol. I do know how to count.
Official Seahawks OL Roster off their website
Centers : Britt, Burbank, Hunt
Guards : Aboushi, Glowinski, Ifedi, Odhiambo, Pericak, Roos*
Tackles : Fant, Meyers, Senior
OL : Joeckel, Pocic
Wow, that’s going to be some stiff competition.
PC already said Ifedi goes to RT. Maybe he could go back, but I think he stays.
A. Joeckel/Odi/Britt/Pocic/Ifedi
B. Fant/Joeckel/Britt/Pocic/Ifedi
Your ignoring Glowinski, his best position may be right guard, or they may keep him at left guard. He was fine as a starter last year. In fact Britt and Glowinski were the most consistent linemen last year.
I liked Joeckel until I read his injury history = he is another Okung. Good player when uninjured.
I’m not ready to give up on Fant – but not sure if he will be a starter this year.
Not to differ, but I think PC said they were excited to try Ifedi at RT, but nothing has been determined yet. He also said they’re excited to try Joeckel at LT.
I’m in the B corner big time! Fant and Ifedi with big leap forwards in play this year. That’s my hope anyways. I could see it happening.
Buffalo!
(PFF) Thompson is a versatile coverage defender who can play both safety and over the slot. He finished 2016 with seven interceptions and seven pass breakups while leading the nation’s safeties with a 92.3 coverage grade
I agree, out of the guys we drafted I think he would be best for the Buffalo spot. I can imagine him and earl working a zone under scheme together and create some turnovers. Two really smart, rangy guys, Kris Richard could get really creative with that
I’ve been a Seahawks draftnik for 40 years, ever since the Tony Dorsett debate. I was a season ticket holder from the beginning until Behring. I got my first draft guide in 1980 as a free gift for subscribing to Pro Football Weekly, and I was hooked. The next year I added Kiper and Draft Insiders (?), and I stuck with Mel until the end while the others all fell by the wayside. But I have to say that SDB has added a new dimension to my enjoyment of this peculiar obsession. Rob has done a great job, and the insights of regular commenters like BobbyK are equally enlightening. I detected a note of self-flagellation in Rob’s wrap-up because he failed to anticipate some of the Hawks’ picks. I think we all have to remember that we’re mostly amateurs while the Hawks have a team of full-time professionals scrutinizing these guys from every possible angle. I found it fascinating how JSPC put together a SB winner in such short order through the draft, and I share your interest in figuring out how they did it. I think that part of the answer is that Pete came straight from the college ranks and was thus intimately familiar with those early draft classes. As a result I fear we may never see that kind of success again. But that won’t stop them from trying, or stop us from analyzing. Keep up the good work, everybody!
Nice post Marc. Yes, Rob is awesome and it is shows his dedication to the site to have taken it so hard about Pocic.
Yeah. No need for that at all. The more we know – the more they throw us curveballs in what we think we know.
This is an amazing community. I don’t know a fraction of draft stuff like some of the others like Vol12, Kenny, etc. All I do is take comments and look at players and make decisions for myself (that’s why I love TJ Watt so much – hearing about him, watching him, and projecting what I see of college tape to the NFL). Rob is better than anyone at this – including others who actually do this for their living, which is remarkable.
Rob = stud.
Was reading an article last week on the scouting process (NFL.com I believe)..and they mentioned one of the most important jobs a pro scout has is to get the inside scoop on the personalities of these athletes. So they talk to secretaries/admins inside the school AD, academic advisors, even waiters/waitresses at the student hangouts…all trying to get a sense for what makes these kids tick.
That is information we’ll never have that makes predicting who goes where very difficult..
Yep, maybe the reason they weren’t as high on Tankersley/King/Obi/Douglas etc… as the blog was.
PC/JS mentioned roster mirroring which implies comparison of draft prospects to their own roster and not the NFL in general. I think I can see a lot of that in this drafts outcome. Considering there were probably 1000+ candidates to possibly be drafted, how can we armchair GM’s possibly narrow down the field to 15-20 that you may actually want to pick and hope to get most of them? Rob and many of this blog’s contributors have an amazing grasp and knowledge on all of the top players available, that makes this an awesome site for many of us to visit on a multiple times per day basis. Thank you to all, especially Rob.
I’ve always looked at player stats, combine outcome, national rankings and scouting reports, but the missing evaluation piece boils down to intangibles that we as fans aren’t too privy to. I think the Seahawks use mind tricks to get into these young men’s heads with a few specifics that they look for, this probably includes but is not just limited to grit, chip on shoulder or just plain badass & bottom line they must be “want to be great” football players. In PC/JS we trust, because of what they have accomplished in the recent past. With this draft haul, I for one think the Seahawks are setup to get back to smash mouth, control the clock and stopping other teams cold type of football.
Don’t know if this has been posted already but this made me feel really optimistic about mcdowell: http://www.sbnation.com/2017/4/21/15352828/malik-mcdowell-scouting-report-nfl-draft-2017 . It’s by Stephen white who I’ve always thought knows his stuff.
Also read tyson’s been told they’re trying him at corner first.
Overall, maybe not the most exciting draft, but the more you read on the players the more they make sense – love the Thompson pick especially.
If mcdowell works out he’ll give us something we’ve not had in the pc era – an every down inside disruptor.
Also I’ll take a slightly less athletic olineman like pocic who knows what he’s doing over an athletic freak who can’t do the basics.
That first video of him beating Ramczyk around the edge is WOW. He looks like Avril speed rushing. I would love to know why he was put at NT. Dantonio is a great coach, it would be great to get his input on McDowell.
The 2nd video, he is essentially tripled teamed, yet still fights through to the QB and nearly gets him from behind with his massive arm. There is a relentless motor in his game, they just need to get it out of him.
A big reason he was kept at the nose was probably that literally no one else could play it. McDowell said during his interview with Seattle media that he played 90% at NT at MSU. If they had someone that could rotate in at that position, I’m sure he would have played a lot more on the EDGE. But I don’t think that was the case.
Seems to be the case, what a waste.
And as always rob, great work, this site is the best by far, helped by all the regular posters. Awsi Dooger, stick around, have really enjoyed your perspective as a non-Seahawks fan.
Agreed. Love reading his posts
Rob, Thank you again for another wonderfull draft season. I did not comment a lot this year but I read every word (and most comments), this place is second to none.
As for self scouting:
Ethan Pocic – “Smart and makes the offensive calls”, “Scouts say Pocic has the intelligence teams look for from a center and is highly regarded by LSU coaches and teammates in the locker room”
Amara Darboh – “Heady player. Adjusts routes to create better throwing opportunities for quarterbacks”
Tedric Thompson – “his football intelligence and playmaking skills will get him drafted”
Michael Tyson – “Communicative on the field and plays with football intelligence”
Justin Senior – “Smart angles to his blocks and can have an impact on second level”
Smart, Heady, football intelligence seem to be a very desirable trait in this draft class.
Great notes.
Dion Jordan is the ultimate X factor for us this year, if he comes in ready to finally be what he can be, he’s 280 now apparently and I bet he could play SAM at that weight. The guy is Frank Clark with DB movement skills. McDowell and him have similar potential
The one thing that still baffles me is that why they did not get both King and Leek when they had the opportunity to do so. They could have easily taken King at 31 and then traded down from 58 to 36 and taken Leek (all they would have given up incrementally would be the extra 3rd they picked up from the Falcons). Is there really not much difference between King and Griffin? I see King as being much better than Griffin all things considered!!!!
They clearly wanted Pocic really badly.
Plus I’m not sure one third round pick would get you from 58 to 36.
Yah, it’s pretty clear they knew who they wanted w/ their first two picks. Fantastic maneuvering to get McDowell in the second AND pick up the additional draft capitol. I would argue that Pocic was good value also. With such a limited O-line class this year he wasn’t going to be available much past 58.
I would agree that they clearly knew who they wanted and it was linemen. The Seahawks were very good about not telegraphing it to other teams or websites. Though they did say they were looking for edge rushers.
I would have gone a different route and locked in the cornerback and safety early. They ended up making those picks later and with more frequency. As in half the secondary picks will be gone in a couple years, unless they are all exceptional. Maybe safety is one of those positions where you can strike gold later. It’s just not as likely.
I can’t really argue with what the Seahawks did, it was just unexpected. First two picks were needed, no matter how you look at the situation they will contribute to a better team.
Am I the only one trying to read where they had the guys going on their draft board in the background of their press conference. I see Isaac asiata….Chad kelley!
Jermaine eluemanor….jake butt
I think what your seeing is simply a chart of teams’ picks. As in, when AZ took Budda, his name is listed under AZ in the 2nd round. Not a Hawk ranking chart
More names Rob got correct. I think it was a mistake not to get Butt. All around TE like Z. Miller the Hawks could have put on the DL until next year, when he would be needed. JB and NV as the 2 TE give you 2 all around TE. Blockers and catchers from Big 5 schools. That might be the big mistake, it Wilson and Graham don’t resign.
I agree. I thought that Butt would have been a really nice hedge for Graham and Willson. If we re-sign neither of them in the current state of the position, we essentially only have Vannett. Which is pretty terrible. Something tells me we’ll re-up Graham though. I don’t think he’ll want to go elsewhere and it’s in the best interest of both sides for him to finish his career in Seattle.
I also like that Jake B. could be the Zach Miller type of TE that we all like. A good blocking TE that is slow but can provide some good route running coming off blocks. The nice thing would have been that we could have redshirted him year one with his injuries and got him on the field next year.
But like I said, Graham may well re-sign and who knows what the TE class looks like next year. If it’s anything like the rest of next year’s class, it should be good.
I agree butt would have made a great pick, as far as he fell
Without reading the whole thread of comments above so perhaps it’s been discussed, I think Rob’s observation about the arizona game impacting their thinking of how to remake this current team is probably very true. It was a game we probably should have lost because we were getting beat up on both sides – couldn’t stay on the field on offense, and eventually worn down by David Johnson on defense. Eventually, we still could have won it until the Hauschka miss.
We won’t know for a couple years whether this was a good draft or not, but if it gets this team back to being the bully, then it will be a success. I wanted us to use all the capital to trade up for a string of high second rounders, but watching Melifonwu fall and seattle not budging even a few spots to make sure they took him, said to me that Schneider meant what he said, he was not enamoured with this class, and was not buying into the narrative that guaranteed future stars were sitting there for the taking past the first round.
As noted by Rob in the article, this draft also may say since PC has replacements for the non-core expensive players like Kearse, Joeckel, Britt, Lacy, etc, maybe we will see a few guys get third contracts. Maybe Shead is healthier than people believe. Sherm will very likely not get traded and will play out the last two years. Perhaps one of Graham or Willson will be retained, maybe even Prich to a second contract.
A final big thank you to Rob!
Actually think it’s GOOD THING you didn’t see a few of these picks coming as JSPC told us they wanted to stay under the radar and not draw attention to the best 2.5 for 1 OL deal in the draft. ( JS literally sweating thru a shirt). Honestly it feels like the Niners are reading your stuff Rob! Now go spend time with your wife!
a special “ciao and grazie” for a few of the fellas –
Vol12 loved your insights and the intell on the VMAC visits! I tried not to get over the top about payers they had not met with and paid special attention to VMAC visitors.
To our Phins fan — keep posting — great stuff. They’ll be my AFC team for sure next year. Thanks for sharing
“Old but Slow” – best name ever! – I now use it on my 14 yr old black lab “Tarzan” Speaking of which I am still intrigued and hope Scalzi comes to us as UDFA!
Kenny – appreciate all the time you put into the hawk fans community
MontanaHawk AlaskaHawk, HiHawk …love how you represent 12s far and wide .. we truly span the world!
After learning more about our draft class ..many have tons of heart and high FB IQ. My favorite picks = Shaq (love the photo message to 12s he posted of his family in Seahawks gear!) and T. Thompson —
Sad we didn’t grab any UW players cuz loved watching them play and wanted them in LOB but….
LOB Version 2 IS IN THE HOUSE! with this draft.
in gratitude to all– Namaste
SheHawks Out
Great post!
And thanks
Next year for the Huskies. Some very good prospect’s coming out of the Dub. Our kind of guy’s. OKG
Vita Vea, Dante Pettis, who else?
Azeem, Bierria, Gaines, Coleman
Possibles
Jordan Miller, Jojo McIntosh, Trey Adams, Kaleb McGary
Drooling over Bierria, and I’m not a Huskies fan!
From what I have been able to determine, Mc Dowell has work ethic and motivational problems. After all the millions of words about the draft the final word will come on opening day, and we see just how many of these guys are actually on the roster.
Glad it’s finally over! Ever since I heard we were scouting LSU I was pretty confident Pocic was our guy because of his flexibility, leadership, durability, intelligence, & experience. In 2016 I was shocked we didn’t take a center (several NFL center candidates in draft) after 2015 when the league was desperate for centers. Don’t forget our desire is to have multiple OL that play multiple positions which allows us to carry more back ups & weapons on the 46 & 53 man rosters.
Keep in mind McDowell in the future may allows us flexibility too.
CB it really drove me nuts because all the top CB prospects mocked to us were finesse players including Kevin King last thing I wanted was another injury prone player.
Finally LB our Free Agent additions are really good & cheap $$$.
Overall this could be our best draft class ever!
I could be wrong – I think Pocic won’t really play in year one. I think he could have serious potential but Seattle didn’t acquire all these FA OLs for nothing. Seems like Pocic’s best fit on our line might be RT. PCJS have been adamant that Ifedi will get first shot at that this year. So that leaves Pocic to compete for one of the G positions. If Pocic were to blow all our hair back and win a job out of camp, one of Glowinski or Aboushi would have to start the year as a backup or be cut/traded. That just kind of seems unlikely with the amount of playtime Glow has gotten and how much hype Aboushi has received since he signed with us. I think we’re looking at a line that goes something like ~
Joeckel – Glow/Odhiambo – Britt – Aboushi – Ifedi
Backups: T Fant, G/T Odhiambo/G Glowinski, C/G/T Pocic
Practice Squad: 2 of Robert Myers, Will Pericak, Justin Senior & Joey Hunt
But it will be hard to get Hunt onto the PS.
I missed the part about PC being adamant that Ifedi will be RT. I remember him saying they would give Ifedi a look at that position.
Also don’t think Pocic’s best fit is at RT. I think he fits anywhere except LT (and could fill in there in a pinch).
“I remember him saying they would give Ifedi a look at that position.”
– I wasn’t meaning that Ifedi will be the RT. But it sounds like he’ll get the first shot at that position, since they mentioned he will get a look there and also- that’s where they envisioned him eventually slotting when they drafted him.
– On Pocic, I think he fits at RT best in our offense because, according to some, he doesn’t do particularly well against bigger DL. He blocks well against smaller DL and didn’t allow a single sack last year. As an excellent pass blocker his best position may be on the outside. But what I would love, actually, is if he beats out Aboushi and starts at RG. Then our line would look like this, in my mind:
Joeckel – Glowinski/Rees – Britt – Pocic – Ifedi
I think Pocic can stay at Center and Britt can play RG or RT
Ifedi should stay at RG imo
If Ifedi can play RT he should be competing at LT honestly.
Sounds like they believe in George Fant at LT
I don’t know if Pocic will start Day 1. He may come in when the real shuffling inevitably begins
If they move Britt I just would not believe it. We finally find a spot for him and he solidifies a spot on a line that basically has no spots solidified, and gamble on him panning out at yet another position on the line? I just don’t see how that works. We at least need to have the continuity of Britt at C this year. Pocic needs to just fit in where he fits in and if we really can’t pay Britt then that sucks, but Pocic could be a nice hedge there.
The more I watch Pocic (and I’ve been watching and trying like hell to like him since he’s now a Seahawk), the more I think a lot of his issues come from playing C, and think he needs to move to G or T. The snapping and proximity to a nose lined up directly over him, leads to him getting pushed back far too often. He does show tremendous fight and he does sometimes lock onto defenders and finish them, so perhaps he could be effective at other places on the line if he gets stronger.
His strength needs to improve and he needs to bend at the point of contact, not after he absorbs the defender. He’s late getting set and engaging, his initial punch needs work so he can stem the momentum of the rusher better in pass protection.
He’s clearly not a lost cause, he has the perfect attitude and desire, but I’m not sure he improves the team much, if at all. Now we wait for camp. Lets see how it all shakes out and root like hell that Pocic is actually a stud and the issues I see are off base.
Go Hawks!
Rob, your final thoughts on that last loss to the Falcons should be first and foremost in the minds of all when evaluating this 2017 draft class. Indeed, some of those needs have been pressing for a number of seasons now–e.g. interior defensive line pass-rush. With that in mind, I think that this class signifies a few different messages.
* This Defensive Line has 2013 Potential *
This might at first glance seem like a bold statement, but hear me out. According to the statistics I’ve scoured, “traditional” DTs accounted for a “mere” 2.5 sacks in 2016. Think about that. Despite this, the Seahawks defense was tied at third with 42 sacks. The league leader was the Cardinals, with 48. Not a bad difference at all.
All of this said, let’s then think about the individual and team potential of McDowell. What might be a reasonable expectation of production for McDowell for the 2017 season? 5 sacks? 10 sacks? Whereas the potential ceiling of 10 sacks might be a little unreasonable, as we’ve discussed before, and even though the floor might be around 5 sacks, that’s an *instant* improvement based off of the 2016 production contribution compared to all Seahawks d-linemen *not* named Avril, Bennett, Clark. What’s more, based off what we know from Clark, a modest rookie season can see nice dividends paid in the sophomore season, as Clark went from 3 regular season sacks in 2015 to 10 in 2016.
Will McDowell see the same kind of growth? Remains to be seen. However, I shall close on McDowell by saying that the most conservative estimation on his rookie production should have us ecstatic. McDowell was a one-man force on his defensive line–imagine him paired up with the likes of Avril, Clark, and Bennett. The potential is staggering.
* I think both Kam and Jimmy will both be either re-signed or extended *
Of all the draft classes to have the potential to find possible successors to some of the biggest Seahawks names in Chancellor and Graham, this 2017 class would have been the one to do so. Indeed, the caliber of the safeties and tight ends were well noted. One might make the argument that drafting of someone like Hill could be that “potential someone”–and that is a possibility. However, how confident are we that Pete and John would seek out a successor to someone like Kam with a “possibility,” instead of a “surety”? I admit, it’s hard to say, as we’re approaching the first time that the current front office has had to think about the third contracts of All-Pro/Pro Bowl level talents, let alone faces of the franchise.
Instead, I think of what Rob and others have contributed about the increasing use of nickel packages and the like, and what the depth behind Earl and Kam has been the past number of seasons. The athletic qualities and intangibles of Griffin, Hill, and Tyson could provide a much needed, fresh, shake-up for what this Seahawks secondary needs.
I could post more (and go on, and on, and on…), but I figure that me breaking my lurking status (have lurked here for around the past six or so years) should be somewhat manageable in length, lol 🙂
Thanks for all that you do, Rob, and get some much needed free time with your wife and twins!
And to everyone else, thanks for being an invaluable Seahawks fan community–your comments, insights, and more have kept me coming back to this site year, after year, after years. Thanks again!
Great post, Duckster!
All the lurkers should shout out just to see how many there are and hear their impressions of the draft!
Reviewing Malik’s tape closely, they need to devote like 3 people to block him a lay, they can’t do that in the NFL i think he might put up nunbers that surprise everyone
After reading and watching a number of reviews/highlights, his limited arsenal of pass-rush techniques is a significant knock on his overall value.
* HOWEVER *
In an interior position, far more than the edge, I would argue, this matters the least. Sheer athletic potential in the interior alone can cause havoc–a C or G being pushed back or aside (no matter the means) alone can mean the difference between either a gap not being available for a RB, or a QB having to shift around, or perhaps abandon a pocket altogether. It’s this reason that I would argue that McDowell’s biggest weakness to address first should instead be his gap discipline (a major thing for Pete). Technique can be taught quickly–indeed, Avril and especially Bennett, are among the very best in the league at D-lineman technique.
So, the potential is staggering.
Don’t need gap discipline on. 3rd and long
True.
I was more thinking about whether he could sneak some snaps in the base package. Should be interesting to see what combinations get trotted out in the pre-season.
If McDowell can become a poor man’s Aaron Donald and get him in the 2nd round, then sign me up.
Different player though. He’s an inside-out guy. More a traditional five-tech/3-4 end kinda dude.
He can become a rich mans calais Campbell
If he becomes Calais Campbell then he’ll be a dominant player. If he becomes a rich version, he’ll be a generational player. You think he’s got that in him?
*Giggles excitedly*
I’ve been giggling incessantly since picking Malik.
He absolutely has it in him, in spades
The tape I’ve seen was that he had more impact at the 3tech and stuffing and/or sacking the QB. If he can disrupt the interior like Aaron Donald (or Cailas Campbell for that matter), then I’m all for it. Imagine a NASCAR package of Bennett, McDowell, Avril, and Clark? Holy shit…
This is a solid draft class that:
1-adds some splash and depth on the DL. MM can be great-does he want to? Naz had 10 PD, 2 ints, 3 ff, 3 fr. That DL rotation is nasty! Could use another veteran run stuffing DT…Tony McD?
2- The back 7 depth is completely different. The SAM as we have known it is dead. In is the buffalo NDB/LB. McDougald, Hill, Thompson, Brown. Really excited to see us attack more from different angles and looks. Hill could be an absolute stud with a year in the LOB and blowing up ST. Love Thompson’s awareness and ball skills.
3- When will Shaq earn that CB2 spot? That’s a more talented competition for CB2 than we’ve had since Maxy left.
4- Pocic is a good, highly versatile OL, well versed in the ZB system. At this point in time-after FA and draft- I was looking for more clarity on how much our OL unit improved. That’s not exactly the case, although the level of talent and experience does look improved on paper. When will Joekel be healthy? Another vet OT should be added- Clady, King Dunlap?
Like the quality depth ‘meat and potatoes’ draft class. Looking forward to becoming more familiar with the class.
Go Hawks!!!
2 things to add to your points.
– I agree about this being the most talented CB competition in awhile. If we can turn a sixth round pick (Maxwell) into a pro bowl level CB, what can we do with this third round ball of clay in Shaq Griffin?
– If we add another tackle, rumor has it (via a Davis Hsu source) that it will be Breno Giacomini. I think he’s a RT only though. So, I don’t know how that would help with the Joeckel injury situation.
I think that Pocic is an outstanding addition to the Seahawks o-line.
First and foremost, he adds a significant level of “peace of mind.” The 2016 season seemed to be one of the healthier seasons for a Seahawks o-line group, but there’s never a guarantee–Pocic offers an instant guarantee of a backup across the *entire* group–a rare thing, to be sure.
Even more, whereas a number of people think he’s a direct threat to Britt’s starting C position in the future, I don’t think so. Britt is a known value at C, and Pete and John have expressed (even lamented) the current level of inexperience/youth of the current group. Britt represents a very valuable veteran commodity going forward. And whereas he might be somewhat cost prohibitive next season, I believe the cap savings from the possible cuts of others, like Kearse or McDaniel can provide the needed cash for a new Britt deal. If *anything*, I believe first and foremost Pocic represents a threat to the job security of Ifedi–Pocic’s technical fundamentals and flexibility could entirely preclude Ifedi’s usefulness on the right side. I would argue that this could even be more so if the coaching staff deems Pocic’s arm length to not be a sufficient detriment to his potential use at a T (either LT or RT). These off-season and pre-season game snap counts are going to be *very* interesting.
I’m excited about Pocic. We have been clamoring for us to draft a good “on tape” lineman instead of a “combine warrior” for a while.
Just watching the Day 3 press conference. JS is totally done with Marshawn Lynch, had another crack at ‘Beast Mode.’ Also a bit of a pop at all of the amateur draft experts, ‘it’s not like we just turn on YouTube videos.’ I’m sure there are a few snowflakes feeling personally victimised out there right now.
Funny you mention that. I picked up on his snark during the Day 1 presser, and as you said he mocked beast mode again on Day 3. Really sounds like they were so ready to be done with him and his “personality”. Pretty funny actually
Right? Both times he’s gone ‘Beast Mode’, starts smirking and then says it again almost rolling his eyes.
I’ll never forget what he did for the Seahawks, but it is an interesting insight.
Pete Carroll seems pretty excited about dion Jordan and his upside.
Pete Carroll would be excited about me if I went into trading camp. Think Jordan might end up being a bit of a hedge/competition for McDowell. Big, long, athletic dude who they’re going to try and get going inside/out.
Dion’s gonna lose some weight for us and compete for the snaps at SAM, I think.
I’ve grown on pocic but if he represents a threat to the job security of ifedi then does the front office come out and admit that the ifedi pick was a total waste?
I also don’t get the 2 for 1 sentiment. Seattle has had those players before in Bailey and bowie, where are they now? Even odhiambo currently is that player and technically so is Britt and now even Joeckel if he moves to guard. Actually now that I’m typing it Fant and Glowinski are the only ones that aren’t multi spot players. So the real question is where is each players strength. And if Pocic is getting drafted in the second shouldn’t he contribute this year?
Don’t forget Pocic can play multiple positions he can play RG or RT so basically Ifedi will still be starting.
As for Ifedi and his use going forward into the future, I think a better question is: “Is this front office content with the possibility that Ifedi might be no more than depth for the remainder of his rookie contract, or will there be a determined effort to force him into one of those spots?” Without question, they’ve alluded to how in the beginning, Ifedi was thought of as a RT, and that there was a regret with him not ending up there. I think with the arrival of Pocic, who is a far more polished O-lineman (let alone compared to either Bailey or Bowie, who came before), puts Ifedi on a clock.
And without question, Pete and John have time and time again shown no problem going to Plan B, C, D, etc with prospects.
As far as Joeckel goes, I think the main influence for how he’ll be implemented is how much Fant can progress this off-season at LT–if it’s sufficient enough, and Ifedi doesn’t, for example, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Joeckle kicked over to RT. Regarding Glowinski, I think he’s in a might tighter spot–I don’t think he has the same options to kick out along the line, so without question he seems to be more relegated to that LG spot. There, too, Pocic’s arrival could pose a threat down the line.
Overall, I think Pocic has a very real chance at starting his rookie season–if a single other candidate on that line (barring Britt, who is the most reliable figure there) fails to rise to the occasion, Pocic is far more equipped than the others to swoop in and snag the starting spot.
That’s One of the things I love about the front office is their ability to change course with their draft picks.
I’m excited for the pick but remain a little suspect. Part of me cynically wonders if the post draft presser about Pocic and versatility is a hedge for seattle having only ever drafted one linemen who worked out well at their prospective spot this far. Okung. Other than that everyone needs an upgrade, has taken three years to develop to league average in sweezy, or has had to shuffle around to new spot. This gives the team a softly critical out in that if he’s not a tackle then he’s Britt’ s successor, which is stupid by the way if the expensive LOB, is aging out or not resigned, then you will have the money to stabilize the oline, and if he’s not a center then we have an expensive backup we hope….to me his pick could take up to two full seasons if it’s good or bad…
Without question, Pocic’s pick represents a number of situations, both past and present, that the front office has found themselves in.
Take Lamp, for example. He was a draft prospect a number of people had chalked up to the Seahawks, and indeed, was within draft strike range. *However*, the front office did not draft him. What gives, then?
On one hand, this front office has, time after time, season after season, stressed the importance of flexibility across the o-line. Some of this is coaching philosophy, some of this is realistic demand–see previous seasons’ o-line injuries, for example. On the other hand, one *could* look at the failings of other picks on the o-line, and there have been quite a few of those, no doubt.
That said, back to Lamp.
He was considered by many to be the premiere G in this draft class–and there indeed was a perceived need at RG for the Seahawks. Instead, Pocic was drafted, who seems to be a veritable O-swiss Army-lineman. So, I think this instead begs the question: what number of front offices across the league would prefer at least a serviceable starter for at least three positions across the o-line, or at least a good starter at one? And I think at the end of the day, that’s going to be the tie-breaking question in.
The biggest question, and this is also the question from last years draft – is where are the tackles? They did not significantly improve left tackle last year in the draft and ended up with Fant playing the spot. Basically a basketball player was trying to learn left tackle. Gilliam was considered the heir to right tackle. And Britt was still a question mark that got moved from Right tackle to left guard to center.
Going into this year we have question marks at both right and left tackle. Pocic is a definite improvement. And considering the sorry state of the tackles, he is an improvement at tackle. I don’t care what his arm length is = the only question is will he play tackle better than other players on the team? I am guessing yes, an out of position offensive linemen that has talent will play better than the current tackles.
Looking at other prospects. Ifedi move to right tackle makes sense because A) he was drafted as a tackle and the draft cost is similar to a tackle, B) he has an issue with picking up stunts that may be resolved by moving him to the outside of the line.
Fant, well lets all pray that he shows both physical and mental improvement. My only criticism was that he couldn’t hold defensive players away from his body, apparently he is bulking up and may show a vast improvement in that area.
Because if the Seahawks have to fill both right and left tackle spots = they are really going to have issues.
Without question, those T spots were the biggest “?” entering this 2017 off-season.
One of the biggest issues was that most regarded this 2017 draft class as being weak in O-line prospects, and even more-so at T–Bolles and Ram-Multi-Consonant being what were considered the best specimens there.
Then we had the previous unwillingness to match the offer the 49ers made to Gilliam–wouldn’t it have made sense to at least have a known value remain to perhaps keep that RT spot?
Well, his departure signifies at least a couple of things:
A) They had at least enough confidence in those that remained to start at either LT or RT. Whether this takes the form of someone who was on the roster heading into this off-season, such as Ifedi, or a new FA acquisition, such as Joeckel, remains to be seen.
B) They were confident enough that at least one draft pick would earn one of those T spots. The fact that Pete and John by and large almost did a “Pick-it-and-Forget-it” after Pocic seems to lend some credence to that.
C) Some amorphous mixture of A and B.
I would not at all be surprised to instead see Pocic in the competitive mix for one of those T spots–his arm length, after I found out with some amateur Google-fu, shouldn’t, after all, be prohibitive: Pocic, for example, has 33 1/8” arms; someone like Joe Staley (random interesting example) has 33.5” arms. So it’s well within the realm of reason, I would think. If Pocic could be a legitimate contender for LT, and Joeckel for RT (which if I remember right, most commentators have said is his better position), then it could be an intriguing scenario.
Thoughts?
Glow can play LG or RG
He was a RG in college.
I’m betting he can play C too in a pinch.
I think it’s very clear that Versatility is one of seattles most valued Oline attributes
I was watching Darreus Rodgers film and I saw him completely destroy Ahkello Witherspoon one play.
Strange and funny thing. My older brother and I had been watching tape on almost 100 players in the last three weeks and graded all of them. But my brother’s favorite’s for Seattle we’re Mcdowell and Darboh. I wanted Griffin bad. So in our particular household it’s a happy draft weekend.
I wanted either Moton or Freeney in the second round so let’s hope Pocic comes through. I remeber my big bro(Jim) saying he wanted to trade up for Mcdowell and I said NOOOO we can pick him up in the second round. lol.
Nice!
Sweet! Post more often as you watch about the prospects that stand out to you guys, so we can all go check them out!
Pretty sweet! My draft crush was Josh Reynolds so I hated to see us go Darboh, although he sounds like a good get. I never really considered McDowell, although it matches with my long-standing desire (and rants) that we don’t disrupt the pocket. Avril / Bennett are studs, but they almost always just round the edges, leaving a pocket to step into for the QB, and it’s burned us big time the last few years. After the McDowell pick, I finally bothered to watch his highlights and could not be more stoked. He really could be that piece that again makes our Dline fearsome which simultaneously helps our DBs
It can not be understated how many times our edge rushes moved the opposing team QB off the launch spot just watch him take two steps up into a beautiful pocket and throw a 10 to 15 yard pass! If Mc Dowell can get that push up the middle that we have been missing uh oh……. SACKS ARE BACK!!
What’s even more, whereas it might take McDowell some time in his rookie season to develop more techniques to add to his repertoire, he’s enough of a athletic, physical force that he very well could help take off more pressure from Bennett. How often do we see Bennett be the one getting double-blocks? *Quite* often. Even a semi-regular push up the middle from McDowell can see either Clark or Bennett feast even more frequently!
If McDowell can contribute in the NASCAR package as a rookie – that’s all I ask. I saw somewhere that he rarely left the field at Michigan State. As a big guy like that, you’re probably going to take some plays off (which makes a guy like JJ Watt all the more remarkable). If he’s only on the field for a certain percentage of plays – he’s going to max out the effort since there won’t be nearly as many snaps he’ll be on the field for.
That is very true.
What’s more, we have yet to see the potential contribution and production Jefferson can have in 2017–without question, Pete and John are *very* optimistic about his potential forecast (and indeed, John *traded up* to get him, after all). So on a rotational basis, the ceiling for that D-Line in 2017 is complete shenanigans.
McDowell will be our starting DT next to Reed day 1 thats my prediction. Amd I’m also going to predict that either Bennett or Avril will no longer be every down starters, Clark might take over.
+1….Mcdowell is exactly what we need. My thoughts at the end of last season were that the Rams and Cards had that one player(Campbell & Donald) that made so much difference for their team that imagine if WE had one of those type players, considering the other pieces on our defense. UNSTOPPABLE.
Darboh…..Really cool player IMO. I believe he will be our Kearse replacement after next year and be a significantly better player.
Griffin……Just look at his combine workout. Excellent character. Tough & explosive.
Pocic…….He will probably be our center after next year but could very well be our right tackle.
Admittedly I didn’t watch any tape on the other guys we drafted but we seem to find pretty decent gems at the DB positions later in the draft so we shall see.
GO HAWKS!!
GO HAWKS!!
GO HAWKS!!
Vita Vea- if he can turn it on…
Top five pick potential.
That being said, what are the generalizations this community sees about the 2018 class? So far I’ve heard it’s a good QB class but that’s all I really know.
Vea, as well as Victor and Greg Gaines who have 1st round potential. Another stacked Husky roster.
The RB class is apparently super-loaded, with Penn St.’s Saquon Barkley the top option.
As far as QB’s, I’m not as high on Rosen as others. I think he’s a loser who just doesn’t exhibit any leadership qualities. He’s been coddled all through his life and doesn’t have any grit. Think Jimmy Clausen.
Dunno how I feel about Lamar Jackson either. He doesn’t stand out as a franchise QB in the NFL to me…
Josh Allen and Sam Darnold will be 1 and 2 IMO.
I checked out the 2018 tight ends crop, seeing as there’s a decent chance the Seahawks lose two this next year and didn’t select any, and from what I could tell, it’s going to be bad. Like last year bad.
I think skyler Howard has a legit chance to beat out trevone Boykin for the backup job.
I hope they add a vet like Kaep. Neither Boykin nor Howard should see the field next year, at all. At all. AT ALL.
Knock on wood that Russ stays healthy.
yeah..was just watching some YouTube stuff on him..great back story..definitely rooting for him to make at least PS..
So do I. Watched game tape on him this morning and came away very impressed. He only had one legit WO, (#1) who got a lot of double coverage. A lot of dropped ball’s by the other receiver’s. He can really fling it!!! Moves around in the pocket and keeps his eyes down-field. Is a very good scrambler. He reminds me of Russ somewhat. More accurate throwing the long ball. I like him a lot. 6’0″ 210. He has a very quick release. GO HAWKS!!!!
Can’t explain how excited I am to have McDowell on this D line. After he visited, I knew they were seriously considering him early. Watching him embarrass Ramczyk on the edge, and then battle through triple teams inside, you know he is a special player. I trust they vetted him and he’s going to show off an underrated motor.
perfect situation for him to learn from the masters (Bennett & Avril) not to mention lining up besides F Clark. Hope he understands that and takes advantage..
Reed is an intense hothead and Clark isn’t going to take crap from anyone. Those are just the young “veterans” McDowell will be lining up with. Nobody in the NFL works harder, tries harder, and hustles like Rubin. Carroll has repeatedly said that. Bennett isn’t going to settle for a lazy teammate on the DL. Remember last year how he was mixing it up with all the OL in an attempt to make them better in training camp? I do. Seattle is arguably the best landing spot for McDowell in the NFL to succeed. The Hawks have guys on the DL who work and try hard. As much as I rag on Marsh, that guy works crazy hard, too. The Seahawks DL works hard and McDowell is going into that environment. It’s perfect for what his reputation is up to this point if he’s going to be successful.
Yep, lots of alpha dogs.
A+ on everything u said. That was one thing I didn’t get was the crass disregard for the seahawks meeting with mc D. We tend to exclusively draft our vmac visitors high.
Our OL has never had this many good options. There are so many different ways this line can turn out. Still, it’s going to be young but that’s the only concern. I’m not as concerned about a lack of talent anymore. Rather, it simply needs to develop and gel. Easier said than done.
LT – I know Carroll has said Rees is going to get a chance to compete here but I think that’s all talk. This is basically going to be Fant or Joeckel. They know what they are getting with Joeckel. He’s not great, but he’s an upgrade to what they had last year (Gilliam, Sowell, Fant the rookie). However, if Fant can take his experience and add it to a great off-season – there’s a real chance he can be our LT in ’17. If not, Joeckel (and an improvement for ’17 it is) will be the guy. I don’t expect Rees to beat out Fant at all or he would have played over him last year (and Fant is the one who got the valuable NFL experience).
LG – If Fant is the LT, then Joeckel is probably the frontrunner for LG. If Joeckel is the LT, you’re returning Glowinski. He would seem to have the inside track. However, this is where Rees could factor. He’s stated he’s most comfortable on the left side and seems to be more of a guard. If he plays better than Glowinski, then the job may be his. Pocic is a wild card. It’s easy to imagine them drafting guys late in the third round as developmental guys who will be future starters. That’s Rees. But they’ve never taken anyone in the second round they didn’t expect to contribute. You’d think Pocic will play somewhere at guard or RT.
C – Britt. Wow, we actually know something with certainty.
RG – Aboushi? Nobody really wanted him in FA and he’s not getting paid a lot. This is an open competition if there was one if Ifedi is our RT. I’ve always thought Glowinski is better suited at RG. Maybe he’s our RG in ’17 if Joeckel or Rees end up at LG? Pocic is in the competition, too. However, if they like Pocic at RT, then we may see Ifedi at RG again.
RT – This seems to be a battle of what they want to put Ifedi. He’s going to start. It’s just where is he going to start on the right side. I could see Pocic starting here as a rookie. After all, they usually don’t draft guys in the second round to be depth. I know Rees could factor in here – depends on how much a year of seasoning and his first NFL off-season he’s taken advantage of – but I can’t get it out of my head how he’s said he’s so much more comfortable on the left side.
The two scenarios below are realistic and yet so different from each other. You can easily add Aboushi at RG in a realistic scenario, too.
LT – Fant
LG – Joeckel
C – Britt
RG – Glowinski
RT – Ifedi
LT – Joeckel
LG – Rees
C – Britt
RG – Ifedi
RT – Pocic
what i worry about is there are not a lot of time to get things sorted out in training camp…which could spill over into the regular season
I definitely worry about that, too. Cable never seems to make decisions early enough in camp and it’s a train wreck early in the regular season. Remember how Carroll said last off-season that he wants the OL ironed out early in training camp last year? It never happened. Cable kept screwing with moving guys all over. Again.
The Joeckel ACL injury is something I worry about. He may not be able to practice 100% early enough in camp. It could open the door for a Fant/Rees left side if both of those guys take big leaps forward in ’17. There are so many realistic options for this OL. It’s really rather amazing. But at least this time around we have some pretty good options. The only spot I don’t expect to be good is LT if Fant doesn’t take a big leap forward because we know what Joeckel is and he’s not an above average LT. But he’s better than the “production” we got from LT last year.
I am worried about Joeckel’s injury history also. Perhaps he is better as a backup? At least he won’t be expected to play a full season. If Fant could show improvement it would answer a lot of questions at that position. He was basically starting from zero experience last year.
to Cable’s defense..the amount of full contact practices they are allowed to have in training camp is limited..and the first string DL’s don’t play much during the preseason games..so I imagine it’s difficult to get a good read on these new guys..
Cable deserves no apologies, he needs to get it done this year. The Seahawks have dumped more draft resources into his position group than any team in the NFL, he can’t possibly keep putting out awful OL units.
I agree. The Seahawks offensive line just doesn’t seem prepared after preseason, and don’t look as good as other playoff teams. Cable needs to get it done this year.
Draft resources, but not money. They could have gone out and bought an offensive line, but the cost would have killed the team. Except for last season, the offense has been good.
Well he’s their coach, bringing in an already great NFL player has nothing to do with coaching. They’re giving the supposed OL guru the best clay the draft can “buy”, and these are the results. I’m not ready to give Cable more passes, he’s just not getting it done.
Pocic was the #7 LT recruit in the nation in high school. He has more experience at LT than George Fant did. In college he got on the field after an injury his freshman year to the starting center. LSU wanted to move him to LT for his Senior year to showcase his skills at that position. He had injuries in training camp and was not able to practice enough to make the move. LSU also found two freshman LT’s in their recruiting class that were ready to play right away at that position. So, Pocic remained at Center for his Senior year. He played one game at RT.
I think he could play either tackle position for the Hawks. He has quick feet. He is not yet a brawler inside. Like most college linemen that enter the NFL, he needs a year in the weight room to get stronger. At OT strength will not be much of an issue. I would keep Ifedi at RG for now. This will all sort itself out in training camp. As you mentioned, Pocic is like the wild card in a game of 5-card stud. We need to see what else we have to determine where he fits. His versatility is why we now cannot guess how the O Line shakes out. He calls himself an offensive linemen and can fit anywhere giving the Hawks too many choices along the offensive line,
He is the new Mcquinstan but talented and slightly more athletic
Glowinski is not a LG. He looked better on @ RG than he did @ any time @ LG last year. Last man off the line,Glo…
Glowinski played Right Guard in college.
I love the fact that the Seahawks front office are self-scouting every year, and SDB follows suit!
I’m gonna collect some of these comments over the next few days so we can pull them out at an opportune moment next year, maybe deep into post-combine when we need to re-focus.
Here’s a couple thoughts off the top of my head, in tune with what many others have already mentioned.
1. Rob wrote that article highlighting that SPARQ is not the be all end all for Seattle. But we then only used that to justify highlighting a couple of players instead of re-casting the nets at all the different positions. (particularly OL-Pocic, DL-Naz, and S-Thompson) Naz and Thompson were guys I really liked pre-combine, but then wrote off after they tested relatively poorly in some areas. Big mistake. Trust the tape, and use the measurements just to send you back to guys you might have missed.
2. Once again, gritty backstory, cool personalities, and football smarts dominate across the board when trying to identify their interests. Once we have narrowed the list of fits at each position, this should really be the deciding factor between them.
3. Beyond just the off-season needs stated explicity by PC/JS, what they do in FA basically telegraphs the profiles they are looking to draft. When they have a need, they are not going to bank on one guy to fill it, but will try to both sign a guy and draft a guy if they can:
Dion Jordan (new, heavier version) – Malik McDowell
Joeckel – Pocic: sacrifice a bit of athleticism to get someone experienced, versatile and knows what they’re doing
McDougald – Hill: versatile and can attack LOS too.
Thorpe (re-sign) – Griffin
Lacy – Carson: big, powerful, run-you-over RB
etc.
4. Hedge next year’s FA. The big exception is TE, but I think it’s pretty clear to them they will be retaining Jimmy beyond this year (via tag or extension, as we’ve mentioned a lot before).
Kearse- Darboh
Britt- Pocic
McDougald- Hill
Lacy- Carson
Thorpe- Griffen
Joeckel- Senior
5. They are willing to see value in guys that had poor tape this past year, but better the year before, and so might fall a little lower than their real talent level. McDowell is the obvious example, but everyone knew about him. Justin Senior is who I was referring to mostly. They mentioned his 2015 tape was excellent in pass pro at 295 lbs. Then he played in 2016 at 315 and came to the combine at 331. They seemed to hint this was a question of motivation, and are willing to invest the time and pick to find out if he wants to get back to what he was.
I’ll leave it at that for now. Don’t want this comment to get too long and boring, and I’m sure we’ll be able to identify a lot more self-scouting points as we go over each new Seahawk in the coming days.
Thanks to the best draft community out there! Just like our team, we will “always compete” and never stop looking for ways to get better!
As you and Rob mentioned, SPARQ and TEF are nice tools but not the final determining factor for who the team drafts. Unfortunately, the board tends to focus on the guys with high scores and discard the rest. This creates a focus on the top 50 guys in the draft. We had three picks in round three. There was little discussion about who those would be other than the same 50 guys. How often did we see predictions of Obi, King and Budda as our first three picks. If we targeted an OL it was a debate about who was the best of a bad lot of about 5 guys. We need a broader net. Not every pick is going to measure off the charts. The focus needs to be on the team’s needs as much as the player’s test scores. PC/JS have stated they draft for their board, not the BPA. When the team did not resign Jenkins or McDaniel is was obvious we had a need for impact DL’s in a draft with few of them.
I’m thinking with the Pocic pick we might see Glowinski lose his starting spot. Why else would we sign a LT/LG and a RG then mention moving Ifedi to RT? Trying to rebuild the run game
I think Rees is more NFL ready for ’17 than Pocic will be. He could sneak into the starting line-up with a good off-season/training camp. There will be battles, that’s for sure. It’s refreshing to have these kinds of battles though, as opposed to having to pick between genuinely bad players like Fant the rookie, Sowell, and Gilliam.
It’s all about competition. I’d be shocked if Pocic started week 1.
Not me…
Britt@ RG. Ifedi-RT. Rees slug it with Odi @LG, Fant @LT. Joekle may not be ready to start the season. They are going to bring him along carefully. Per PC.
Vol tracked the McDowell visit
I liked Pocic from all his tape and versatility/leadership/intangibles, but we’ve blinded ourselves with TEF. They apparently must have a much lower cut-off than originally thought!
I’d like to know what Cable thinks of his new projects
Rob had Shaq Griffin pegged all year.
He might have mentioned Delano Hill before too. Some commenters definitely did.
He had the wrong Michigan receiver in his target list, but I remember talking about Darboh with Vol here after seeing him rip down some passes on the redline
Tedric Thompson was a favorite of so many contributors here, even though the main blog mostly focused on the Colorado CB duo.
Michael Tyson~~~~
Justin Senior~ can’t believe I didn’t see this guys tape considering all the OL I watched.
Chris Carson A favorite of almost the entire blog and a distinct find by Volume12…
That’s at least three solid picks nailed.
It seems to me Obi may have been a smokescreen. I’m sure there was some interest there, but perhaps he was too ‘soccer’ for ys
yeah…I don’t think I’d do very well playing poker against JS & PC.. 🙂
Senior looks like a guard to me.
I don’t think Obi was a smoke screen in so much as they where pretty set on who they wanted with the first two picks. Personnel folks can’t tell the truth all the time, but if you listen to the interviews it sure does seem as if Malik was pick at 26 and Pocic pick in 2nd round. Would they have wanted Obi in a trade up post Pocic we will never know. I believe they might have wanted him then, but not at the risk of losing Pocic (that’s the million dollar question if Obi was available would they have gone with Pocic I say his because of his flexibility to play all over the line).
What I like about Shaq is that he can play outside. For as much praise as the Cowboys are getting for picking Awuzie and Lewis they are not pure outside corners. At least Lewis is not. Love Awuzie and his versatility is enticing, he probably is a small version of Obi but more refined as a football player. But the arms is the thing, Hawks just don’t go for that arm length, that early.
Really have my hopes up for Shaq and since Hawks did not get Obi their plan of going for volume in the back end seems logical.
Id like to see a package of 5-2-4 This year. Clark and Avril on the edges and put Bennett, McD, and Dion Jordan in the middle bunched over the middle. Unleash the beasts!
Also, Malik’s motor is fine, his motivation is the problem. He doesn’t hesitate to run down a play and make the tackle at the goal line. You can see in the first 3 games of 2016, he does it routinely while playing almost every snap. Get him on a team where everyone else is playing for him, taking double teams off him, and letting him be a rational piece, he’s going to flourish. Once he get his technique down, it’s Game Over for opposing offensive lines
Darboh reminds me of Jeremy Maclin
He’s thicker than Maclin. Doesn’t seem to have that same elite speed either. I think they’re quite a bit different, actually.
Darboh ran a faster 40
Football speed
Darboh is a poor man’s Julio imo
>Kearse
RB and OL are the two positions PC/JS could not crack in draft so far!
With so many combinations and new faces on OL going in to season, expect another rough start unless a miracle happens. We can only hope the line settles by it self by 2nd half of the season.
Panthers WR Kelvin Benjamin is 280 lbs!
If Kalil gets hurt, he’s ready to take over at LT.
Him and Lacy need to stop hanging out at Krispy Kreme
https://youtu.be/BGMrKjKbm9U
Watch the play from 8:35 to about 8:45
You wanna get excited about a draft pick?
https://youtu.be/OuIlg966eEU
No wonder we love Harbaugh’s students
Great Gif review of Malik Mcdowell HERE
https://www.reddit.com/r/Seahawks/comments/68df36/malik_mcdowell_gif_breakdown/
Very cool.
Thanks man, you should re post that in the new thread, best way to see what he’s capable of.
Game 3: “McDowell takes on triple team and still almost gets to the QB!” Is the play I was alluding to above. SO nasty
My favorite is when he is rushing the QB, changes direction when the pass is off, and runs down the RB before he makes the 1st down.
Mike mayock after our picks:
– Malik Mcdowell
“This kid is gifted genetically. He played both inside and out, but he runs hot and cold. … I’ve had an awful lot of coaches say if we can unlock the potential in this kid, we can have something special. Pete Carroll has always done a great job of taking these types of guys and getting the best.”
– Ethan Pocic
“Great pick for them. They have not been the same since they lost Max Unger. … He’s smart. He gets up to that second level which you need at the center position. This is going to fortify them in the inside. Something they’ve needed since they lost Max Unger.”
– Nazair Jones
“I thought he fit best in a 3-4 scheme as what they call a five-technique, but he can play defensive tackle. He’s got an ideal body type for that. Six-five, over 300 pounds, thought he did a nice job kind of getting in the way of a lot of passes. The only downside I felt with Naz Jones was he ran a little bit hot and cold. He could dominate games at times and then other times he’d disappear for long chunks of times.”
– Amara Darboh
“He’s got a combination of size and speed and he competes. I thought he struggled a little bit against quality press. They played Colorado and he had trouble getting off press coverage. When he had open access, he was fine. He’s also a good special teams player. I think he’ll have the ability to cover kicks and punts and he’s a tough kid.”
Interesting how both M. Mcdowell & Naz Jones were quoted as “running hot and cold”. They both played almost all snaps for their teams I’m told. The Seahawks have real opportunity here spell them out on a bunch of plays and tap into that goodness they are capable of when they are in. I believe with the personalities on our defense, not playing them as much, being in the Nfl AND being on an awesome team that ANY college defensive lineman would dream of coming to, and the fact that if you don’t compete you don’t play, WILL indeed “unlock the potential” and have something special with Mcdowell. He is 20 years old and certainly capable of becoming something super special.
That Max Unger narrative is lazy and inaccurate.
I like what you said about McDowell and Naz playing tons of snaps and them being able to be rotated out with us, possibly leavening their hot/cold streaks. Motivation is one thing, but that makes just as much sense.
Haven’t gone over comments to see if this has been mentioned. Skyler looks like a baller:
http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/nfl-insider/article141221383.html
Rob mentioned Tyrone in post draft recap, that guy has a chance to become something.
http://www.burntorangenation.com/nfl-texas-longhorns/2017/4/25/15209750/tyrone-swoopes-tight-end-2017-nfl-draft-scouting-report-texas-longhorns-quarterback
Love this class! if not known commodites, their strategy and maneuvering was “exquisite” as Pete mentioned. Filled needs, went with VOLUME more than anything to fill secondary holes. Not with a fix all “Obi” as I had been wanting. If Malik truly was their pick at 26, getting him plus 3 more players is outstanding.
I remember a few years ago watching tape with my brother and we absolutely loved Kawaan Short and wanted the Hawks to pick him up even though the draft pundits were not as thrilled. We also had Aaron Donald in our top 3 picks that year and were terrified that he landed on the Rams so late. Well we felt the same way about Mcdowell before the draft and I believe he is the missing link of 5tech dominance that we need on our line. He IS a rare player and one that the Seahawks almost never get a chance to get so lets enjoy the show boys when those pesky QB’s try and step up into the pocket of Mcdowell and get crushed or flee away to the outside and meet Avril, Bennet or Clark. Good luck NFL.
Hawks where lucky and good that Bennett turned out into the dominant player he is. Here’s to Malik turning out the same. Agree FuzzyL that position is so hard to find. Donald and JJ Watt are my favorite players in the NFL besides QB’s. Love Earl as well especially for the type of defense Hawks play.
I really did not want them to draft Malik as I am in the camp of believing people don’t change (unless they want to not if they are prodded). But we did not interview him, we don’t know the in’s and out’s of what he’s made up. The call in to him post pick gives me hope and if there is one Head Coach (psychologist) I would trust with bringing the best out of him that would be Pete.
the ram were not far behind us in picking… Imagine a nightmare timeline where they got Malik lining up with Donald RIP RW
I think you did a great job this year Rob. You were one of very few sites that I could go to and feel like I was getting an honest/thorough look at these players. The Seahawks with Pete/JS and very hard to predict in their draft. I don’t expect anyone to know what they are up to.
I will say that they did what I hoped they would do and that was load up on pass rushing DT talent. With Q.Jefferson coming back healthy this year and getting McDowell into the passing down rotation, QBs will not be able to escape our outside pass rush (Clark, Bennett, Avril) by just stepping up. More pressure on QB means more bad decisions by them, that should help whoever it is playing the other side of Sherm and hopefully bring those INT numbers back up similar to those in 2013.
Rob… I’ve officially been following this blog for one year now. Upon first finding this blog I remember the disappointment in know that Sheldon Rankins would have no chance of falling to us! In your opinion how does Mali Mc Dowell compare to a Sheldon Rankins? Just through reading I believe everyone on the blog would have been ecstatic of we got Rankin’s last year.
Rankins is a very different player IMO. Rankins is more of a typical defensive tackle, traditional three-technique. More akin to the Aaron Donald/Geno Atkins type than a Calais Campbell. Rankins was highly explosive rather than agile and he was smaller/shorter. He could play some end, possibly, but his best fit was working the interior IMO. McDowell is big, long and very, very athletic/agile for his size and really powerfulmbut he isn’t incredibly explosive. That’s not a big deal though — because his quickness to avoid blocks combined with the power he’s shown even on a one-armed bull-rush is phenomenal. He has incredible talent — possible perennial all-pro talent if he can put it all together. There were never any question marks about Rankins’ in that regard. That’s why one went in the top-15 and the other dropped to round two.
Wow perennial all pro? I can definitely get on board for that! I watched a tape evaluation on RSP obviously made before the draft. They kept saying and I qoute” this kid just needs to land somewhere like Seattle with a Michael Bennett”. Well here he is and I truly believe like you said if he puts it all together he can be that disruptor up the middle the does not allow the opposing QB to just step up in the pocket to avoid Bennett and Avril! Thanks man!
For the record i still believe that the team chemistry is strong. I agree that this draft was about toughness and mind set but i had the thought that it may be about more than that. A lot is being made of the great stories of some of our picks ( Jones, Darboh, Griffin) but it has been said that many of these guys are heart and soul of the team/unit guys. There has been a lot of talk about “the message” being old from the staff and i think that a common thread for the picks is that they have a vibe of towing the line for the team. We all know that the locker room has alpha dawgs and these guys don’t seem like dawgs at first glance. Granted every rookie will be agreeable to the teams staff and culture but these guys strike me as more of a lunch pail worker group that lacks a “loud” personality. I see them as what could be the more team first guys like young KJ Wright, Bobby, and Russ. Talented with a more controlled temperament. I don’t think that big personalities were eliminated from the board but this fits to me with the back to the basics evaluation of this draft.
Watching the Delano Hill highlights reminds me of another issue from last year. There were numerous games where the tackling was not as good as previous years. Looks like his selection is a move towards that focus again.