Instant reaction: Seahawks backups struggle in Minnesota

August 18th, 2019 | Written by Rob Staton

Last week the Seahawks flashed some depth, a collection of players stood out and they won the game fairly comfortably. Today was a different experience.

Seattle’s top performers on the night were already established starters. With a number of players injured or rested, the depth was tested.

Overall it was a difficult game.

Minnesota out-gained Seattle 409-221 and moved the ball with ease in the second half. They had 14 more first downs and were 11-18 on third downs compared to Seattle’s 4-12. Defensively there was very little resistance and the offense looked disjointed.

The scoreline was deceptively close thanks to the boot of Jason Myers and a gifted pick-six. The Seahawks’ backups struggled and provided very little clarity on a number of position battles.

Here are the notes…

— Poona Ford was the stand-out player on defense. He impacted plays against the run and pass. He could easily have had a forced fumble but for a dubious whistle for forward progress. This was an exciting, impressive performance that will alleviate some of the concern about Jarran Reed’s six game suspension. With Reed also featuring today and having a terrific play shooting a gap to force a TFL, an accomplished partnership at defensive tackle could emerge from mid-season. Al Woods also showed well which is encouraging given he’ll fill-in for Reed.

— Jaron Brown and Tyler Lockett both deserve praise on the offense. They effortlessly got open to provide Russell Wilson with easy completions for decent yardage. When people ask why Brown is a lock for the team, this is why. You need players familiar with the league, Seattle’s offense and the quarterback. On this evidence Lockett will settle nicely into the #1 role and Brown will be a productive #2.

— The pass protection from the starting unit was excellent. Seattle really has done a good job turning around the fortunes of the O-line. They better hope for good health though because the backups were awful. As soon as they switched, the offense completely stalled. Elijah Nkansah at left tackle started with a bad hold to negate a nice gain from Paxton Lynch for a first down then gave up a sack off the edge. The running game collapsed as the line was pushed around. It was virtually impossible for Lynch or Rashaad Penny to get anything going. Any kind of pass or run was laboured. They need Jordan Simmons, George Fant and Jamarco Jones to get healthy and stay healthy to provide some insurance. Fair play to Joey Hunt keeping alive a Jazz Ferguson fumble leading to a Jackson Harris recovery.

— That’s not to say Lynch and Penny are completely blameless. Lynch looked flustered behind the porous line and never really settled. He should’ve been picked off in the red zone at the start of the fourth quarter. Penny looks like he’s overthinking. He’s tentative running at the line and looks a lot more comfortable working in space. The guy can play but he needs to start hitting the line with authority. There’s no doubting how much potential he and Chris Carson have as receivers though.

— Shaquill Griffin getting burned by Adam Thielen was a concern. Not because it’s Thielen — he’s a top-class receiver and one of the best in the league. It was the nature of the completion. Griffin gave Thielen a free-release and was left flat-footed against an inferior athlete. It’s the kind of too-easy big-gain this defense is designed to never give up. This is year-three for Griffin and he shouldn’t get beat like that. People might point to Tre Flowers’ DPI shortly after but that was much better coverage and so close to a fantastic play.

— The interception for Deshawn Shead’s big play was fairly straight forward but having forced a safety last week and now a pick six — along with his versatility — Shead is making the team. He did miss a tackle late in the first half on a big catch-and-run.

— None of the nickel corners contenders appeared to have a good game. Justin Coleman was always going to be an underrated loss but this felt like a poor day for Kalan Reed, Jamar Taylor and Akeem King.

— Twitter remains painful during Seahawks games. Hot takes galore.

— Ugo Amadi had the play of the first half after Shead’s pick six. You can watch it below. Anything like this gets Pete Carroll jacked. Look at the reaction of the sideline. That’s what Seattle wants on special teams. They need it to connect to the physicality on offense and defense. It’s a perfectly timed, clean, monstrous tackle.

— Mychal Kendricks looked a class apart. He moves so freely, plays with toughness and look at the way he chased the ball-carrier down on the catch-and-run after Jacob Martin lost in coverage and Shead missed his tackle. Kendricks will be a diamond for Seattle in 2019.

— The blown coverage on Minnesota’s touchdown before half-time was poor to see. Marquise Blair was stranded in no-man’s land. It’s not necessarily his fault but it’s hard to figure out what he was doing. If it is his error — this is why he’ll be a rookie backup. This defense is about discipline. They lived with Earl Thomas as a raw rookie because they had no depth in 2010 and he was an electric top-15 pick. Blair needs time to learn. Fans on twitter might not like it but Tedric Thompson or Delano Hill likely starts the season simply because they’ll make less mistakes. Doing things right is more important to Carroll’s scheme than people realise. Blair was carted off with a back injury which isn’t good news.

— It felt like Seattle blitzed a lot and needed to in order to create pressure. I’m going to copy this comment to paste in other instant reaction pieces throughout the season. Apart from a very brief flash here and there — the only thing today proved was how much they need Ziggy Ansah healthy.

— Minnesota moved the ball a bit too easily for comfort in the third quarter. The defense needed someone to step up and make a play but nobody really came close. Seattle’s depth was tested in the second half. They have a lot of injuries at the moment and rested a lot of players. They scraped the bottom of the roster today. Hardly anyone stood out in the second half.

— It was good to see Jazz Ferguson make another couple of catches but he had only two completions on seven targets and a fumble. John Ursua joined in late in the fourth with a 25-yarder. He only had two targets overall. It was surprising to see Gary Jennings have only one target all day (an incompletion I can barely recall). Lynch zones in on Ferguson a lot which is fine but we need to see the other receivers.

— Jason Myers was flawless which is excellent news.

— 3:35am British time was not the moment to bring out ‘sky cam’ (even for one snap).

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124 Responses to “Instant reaction: Seahawks backups struggle in Minnesota”

  1. Galen says:

    I just love how even keel your analysis is, Rob. It’s a nice respite from the reactionaries in Seahawks Twitter.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Thanks.

      I don’t want to sound like a broken record but twitter really is awful for stuff like football. It’s a long game stretched out over hours and people fill in the time by offering their ‘take’ on absolutely bloody anything. Ten years ago you’d wait until the end of the game or even the next day to craft an article or blog post. You’d put time into it and therefore force yourself to consider your views and opinions.

      Now you can just fire off a 0-220 character thought without engaging in any perspective or consideration. And if you regret that thought with hindsight or misspeak in any way all you can do is either delete the tweet, admit you were mistaken or reactionary or (and this happens more often than not) you try to defend the crappy point you made to the death to justify the original tweet. You set yourself on a narrative path and you just keep walking and walking. Then when others disagree with your take (as will happen on twitter) you end up digging in even more.

      It’s awful. It does no good for anyone.

      And yet because of all the stoppages and ad breaks you’re almost drawn to twitter during a game to kill time. It’s hard not to log on. That doesn’t mean you need to start tweeting, though…

      • Logan Lynch says:

        Last season I stopped following the popular Seahawks Twitter hive, and it honestly helped me enjoy the games more. Being out of market, I don’t always get to see the games, so I sometimes rely on Twitter for updates. I still follow the actual SEA media guys like Condotta and Bell which works for me. Once I realized that really none of the guys on Seahawks Twitter know any more about the team than I do, it showed me how much time I was wasting even reading their opinions.

  2. cha says:

    “3:35am British time was not the moment to bring out ‘sky cam’ (even for one snap).”

    Preseason broadcast coverage is so poor.

    Announcers get stupid talking points and ignore what is happening on the field. Penalties or injuries aren’t even commented on if they’re blathering on about some guy who has a funny name or just took up football 2 years ago.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Pre season coverage reminds me of draft day three coverage.

      They do stuff (interviews etc) in the second half to try and appeal to a mysterious ‘floating viewer’ who isn’t that invested in the moment and needs to be entertained by something other than the game.

      Meanwhile the only people watching pre season second half football and draft day three are the absolute 100% football geeks who just want to focus on the action.

      TV producers.

  3. Kevin Mullen says:

    Minnesota’s dink and dunk offense will kill our defense all season long without some pressure from the front four. The “bend but don’t break” was only good during the LOB years because of the pressure created from the front, plus the savy play for the ball from the back seven. This game showed that Seattle bent all the way to the end zone, Minnesota pretty much had their way throughout the game.

    Can we go get Clowney now??

  4. matt says:

    Sorry Kevin, but bah! to your ‘they got bent and broke’. The first teamer’s didn’t break.

    • Jamho3 says:

      2nd that.

      To me to suggest there was something “wrong” with the best defense most of us have seen in our lifetimes reeks of self importance.

      Yes we play a Zone scheme… We also stopped/slowed better offenses last year with arguably worse defensive personnel.

    • Elmer says:

      You’re right. They were looking at people and some veteran 2’s and 3’s showed us why they won’t make the team, they will be surpassed by rookies.

      Some veteran subs can really play (see Shead, Thorpe).

      Some can’t.

  5. charlietheunicorn says:

    How wide open Lockett got on some plays was crazy. The 3rd down scramble by RW, they showed Lockett by himself with a 15 yard cushion in the endzone…. waving his hands wildely. I agree, Brown looked pretty dialed in, had one ball ricocheted off the top of his hands, but that was RW throwing too high than his actual hands.

    Homer looked like he belonged on the field. Explosive. He touched the ball and made things happen. Overall, I thought every RBs looked pretty good catching the ball out of the backfield.

    Two noticeable injuries: Lynch with probable concussion and Knox with a knee injury. I didn’t catch any other major injuries or obvious injuries.

    • charlietheunicorn says:

      Seattle coach Pete Carroll told reporters Sunday that Metcalf needs surgery on his knee. Carroll didn’t offer a definitive timetable for the dynamic athlete’s return but said he would likely know more after the procedure, which is planned for Tuesday.

      BUMMMMMMEEEERRRRRRR

  6. Ashish says:

    Rob, is it time to press panic button for Penny? Not sure was more to do with offensive line or Penny? Carson did good.
    I’m really concerned first time

    • Volume12 says:

      Penny kinda has a C-Mike feel to him currently. Doesn’t mean the career trajectory will be the same though. Penny has more talent. What I mean though, all the potential in the world, but his brain moves faster than his feet.

      • Chawk Talker Eric says:

        I don’t know that Penny has more talent. He certainly had the better college career, but CMike was one of the most explosive, athletic RB prospects ever at the Combine.

        Here’s to hoping they have nothing in common career wise

        • Mark Souza says:

          With Penny (my opinion only) I get the impression is that his problem is he’s trying to find a way to take every carry to the house by trying to dodge everyone at (or behind) the LOS. He needs to start his runs like Carson, pick the best seam and hit it hard and don’t worry about taking it to the house until your through the line and can see some daylight.

    • Rob Staton says:

      No. No need at all.

      He needs to be more decisive and instinctive at the line but nobody should be panicking in pre season game two of his second season when he is playing behind an atrocious O-line.

      • McZ says:

        Turner played behind the same line and was arguably better at breaking tackles.

        I think, you’re right when you say he is overthinking. IMO, the first rounder status weighs heavy on his shoulders, and he needs some good news.

        Maybe they should pass the punt and kick returner role to him, which would use his still impressive open space accelleration.

        • Elmer says:

          It’s looking like I would keep Turner, Homer, probably Scarbrough. Good, hard runners. Then Penny can sit if he insists on doing his C-Mike imitation. Goodbye to McKissic and Prisise.

  7. matt says:

    That’s too bad about Metcalf, hope he comes back soon. You nailed it Rob with the depth struggled. Too me the first team offense looked electric. Their going to score a lot of points. The front line is a force, the receivers (Lockette!!!) are pretty dynamic and Russell, well he’s just a joy to watch. It’s gonna be fun!

  8. Volume12 says:

    Well that was ugly and boring. Some of it growing pains, some of it not having enough juice to get after passers.

    Adam Thielen is incredible. Wanna be a WR who might not be blessed with god given athleticism? Study him. Every movement of his clear, cut, and concise.

    Poona was awesome.

    Amadi didn’t stuff the stat sheet but he popped big time for me.

    Flowers might end up being a no. 1 corner, but IMO hes not. Right now an obvious #2. Thats ok, but they probably are gonna need more opposite him.

    Lockett continues to show why hes one of the more underrated wideouts in the game. God I love him.

    Tonight was the 1st time Ive checked out Seahawks twitter in probably 6 months, maybe longer. Do they all have the same gimmick? Woof.

    • Logan Lynch says:

      Totally agree on your points. Twitter is terrible, you’re lucky for staying away for 6 months. Unfortunately, they’ve all morphed into pre-release Enzo…shouting at the top of their lungs to get noticed, but mostly just being abrasive and annoying.

    • Sea Mode says:

      Might have to go out and get ourselves an earlier-than-usual CB with our extra R2 or R3 pick, if the right guy is there. You already suggested the talent might be there this year. Sure, it is unlikely given our history. But it’s not like they’ve really had the ammo to do it either the past couple years had they wanted to.

      We are loaded at LB and RB, just drafted half a million WR and S. Trenches and a CB might be the biggest “needs” heading into next year’s draft?

      Flowers potential is still sky-high, but Griffin is starting to look like he might be in trouble heading into his contract year. They might want to get some prime material into the system a year early to push and possibly replace him if he doesn’t manage to take the next step in his play.

    • Jamho3 says:

      Theilen not gifted?

      I would suggest measurably not true.

      “He did extremely well in that showing, putting up a 4.45 40-yard dash and a 6.77 three-cone drill. There’s a youtube video of him running the three-cone even faster, at 6.39 in his training facility.”

      If we were to compere AT to Trey Flowers you’d see he’s just as fast and jumps just as high. Probs with a much better 3 cone.

      Add to that at WR measurables don’t reflect success as well as college production.

      Let’s try and be more fair in our comparisons of athletes

      https://www.dailynorseman.com/2013/7/27/4562322/adam-thielen-heard-it-my-whole-career-minnesota-vikings-training-camp-2013-wide-receiver

  9. line_hawk says:

    I know Carroll’s defenses are good and playing at Clink helps but it does feel like this is going to be the worst defense since 2010. Which means the offense might be playing from behind more often and won’t be able to run as much as they like. They badly need players to emerge in secondary/dline. Otherwise, this will be a long season.

    • Rob Staton says:

      The defense was missing Ansah, Wagner and Wright and didn’t give up any big plays to Minnesota’s one’s apart from the Griffin coverage. Poona played well, so did Reed and Woods.

      • McZ says:

        … and Meder was stable.

        I wonder why nobody mentions Wilsons fail of not grasping a wide open Lockett at 12:01 in the 2nd.

        • Sea Mode says:

          I think it was just unfortunate. Russ turned his head to look back across the field (possibly at Vannett, who was offering himself for a quick dump pass) just as Lockett broke free and then didn’t look back to him until it was too late.

          Usually Russ keeps his eyes up long enough to spot his receiver at the last second, but this time it just didn’t happen.

      • line_hawk says:

        Fair enough. We will see what happens.

        Even in normal years, Carroll’s conservative style has good passers beat them with efficient passing. With the recent rules favoring passing offense and the decline of our defense, it seems that the offense will need to score a ton of points quickly.. especially on the road.

        Overall, we have been hanging our hope on Wagner and Wright since 2012. Its high time someone else emerges.

  10. Trevor says:

    All I could think about last night watching the game was where is the pass rush going to come from?

    In todays pass happy NFL if you give QBs the time the Vikings had last night they are going to carve up your defence no matter how good your back 7 defenders are.

    I agree with Rob that this team is one more off season from being a legit contender but the idea of adding a guy like Clowney has to be something PC/JS have to be considering.

    • Sea Mode says:

      Agree completely that the pass rush has to be the biggest concern atm. I also think they will have their noses in on the Clowney situation and be sniffing around in case the asking price goes down even enough to make a 2-year rental worth it.

      But I am also kind of thinking that maybe a big risky move like that might not be advisable until we have at least seen what a line of Ansah, Reed, Ford, and Collier can look like. Yes, it’s obvious we need more pieces on the DL. But most teams’ rush would be expected to look considerably worse without their top 2 DE talents on the field.

  11. Largent80 says:

    Before that terrible looking hit to Lynch he was looking dreadful out there. Forcing the ball all over the place and badly missing open receivers. Penny had little to NO blocking at all and on one play the defender almost got the hand off. Pretty hard to be critical of him based on what was going on in front of him.

    Hopefully we get to see him behind a line that is at least halfway competent.

  12. Frank says:

    +1 on Rob’s even keel approach, and my favorite part is that it’s not just a Homer shining a positive spin on everything, or the Twitter the sky is falling take. Just pragmatic, honest, well thought out. Thank you for that Rob, and thank goodness it’s football time again!!:)
    These injuries, and the league is wanting more games a year? The league should have bigger roosters or each team have a minor league developmental team. Yeah, the 3-4 string looked like crap but how many reps do these guys get? I’m slightly concerned with the injuries, didn’t we switch physical therapy staff this off season? Availability is huge, and has too be a factor in deciding the final rooster but it seems like everyone is already banged up and it doesn’t seem like toughness factor but legit injuries requiring surgery. On the bright side, none of them seem to be season ending. Hopefully the Hawks are healthier at the end of the season than the beginning.

  13. Saxon says:

    Ugly game. Don’t want to get too reactionary, because we are battling a ton of injuries.

    One positive: Pass protection from starters was great. Russell had all day to throw.

    Also, good to see some RPO where Russ actually keeps the ball.

    I was a fan of Penny and applauded the pick, but his vision and ability to run through contact are glaringly poor right now. Blocking is bad but you have to manufacture yardage at times and he seems incapable. He really needs space to operate otherwise he is a non-factor. Limited vision is hard to fix for a RB.

    Thanks for your insights, Rob.

  14. Henry Taylor says:

    Just watched the condensed game this morning (wasn’t feeling staying up till half 4 on a Monday morning for a preseason game) so will have to watch it again to get a better feel, but I have a few thoughts anyway…

    Poona Ford is an absolute machine! Best non-punter in last year’s ‘draft’ class (yes it’s too early for that sort of nonsense and this isn’t Twitter but do you disagree?). Just unblockable throughout the night, thank God the NFL refuses to recognise that a shorter stature is actually a benefit to playing that position, what a steal. The rest of the dline… let’s just say Clowney is sounding more and more intriguing.

    Less rookies popping tonight, and it didnt help that they’re all getting hurt. Especially DK, I really wanted him to get those snaps to work his way into a starting role asap. Hopefully he’s back week one to go off one an unsuspecting Bengals team.

    As far as the other wide-recievers go, Jazz looked more like a practice squad guy, which is fine for now, whilst Ursua looks like he could fill a role no one else on the roster is currently equipped to do, would love to find a way to get him onto the roster. And am I right in thinking Malik Turner was running with the 1s tonight? I know Hawkblogger has been touting him as an underrated guy to make it based on his special teams play, but it was interesting to see him out there with Russ.

  15. Logan Lynch says:

    Pretty boring game as others noted. Poona was awesome. Amadi showed up on ST again. Carson looks good. Nice to see Dissly out there. Meyers looked solid, and he’s REALLY good at that pop-up kick that comes down right at the goal line. Too bad some guys got out of their lanes and allowed a few returns.

    Some pretty poor showings I saw from a few guys though. Man, what happened to Naz? I wonder if they asked him to put some weight back on once they found out about the Jarran suspension to try him at DT again. Pete had said he would play 5T DE, but I only saw him at DT last night and he looked pretty bad. No quickness or explosion, unless you count him getting blown backwards by the MIN OL. Seemed to really be laboring too, repeatedly getting up kind of slow. Body looked a little sloppy too, which was a change from the OTA photos and why I brought up the question of gaining weight.

    BBK looked a bit overmatched too. Once a guy latched onto him, he was kind of done. Made a few tackles, but reminded me on Nick Barnett in the sense that he doesn’t really have stopping power. He jumps on a guy’s back and rides him for a few yards before taking him down. Not unexpected because he is undersized.

    Overall disappointing to see so many guys out with injuries. I hope DK makes it back for the regular season and Blair’s back spasms are just a short term thing.

  16. jdk says:

    Hey, if Jaron Brown is ‘effortlessly’ getting open all year, then obviously he should be starting.

    But this guy:

    6 years, 100 receptions, 183 targets, 1343 yards

    Shouldn’t be your WR2. I’m sure there is some precedent for a 7 year journeyman making a leap from backup to solid starter, but if that’s what Seattle is banking on, then I’m not holding my breath.

    With the state of the defense, like it or not, how far Seattle goes this year will depend on an efficient passing game. The stats above don’t paint the picture of a high floor, low ceiling WR. They are a low floor, low ceiling guy.

    If that’s the best Seattle can do, then it’s going to be a rough year, and I believe it would be better to roll the dice with young talent than to eke out 600 yards from Brown on a team that isn’t going anywhere.

    Brown’s experience would probably be preferable as a WR4 on a contending team, to your point, Rob (those guys are important in a playoff push), but in the context of this Seattle team, I hardly see the point.

    Let’s get the new guys more real NFL snaps and, if one or two of them hit the ground running, then Seattle will have some high ceiling weapons out there that might help drive a deep playoff run.

    • Henry Taylor says:

      I’m excited to get the young guys involved as much as anyone, but this isn’t Madden where just getting guys experience is all a player needs to progress. It’s a disservice to their development to put that much on their shoulders right from the get go. Theyll still get their chances throughout the year and Jaron Brown played well yesterday, so what’s the beef?

    • Coleslaw says:

      Hes never been a #2, though. Arizona always had like 5 guys rotating. He was underused last year.

      We saw his production rise with RW at QB. Now volume should bump him up again.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I don’t know why you would look at Jaron Brown that way.

      There are all sorts of reasons why players don’t fit in one area and then really shine somewhere else. Chris Clemons anyone? By this measure you wouldn’t have traded for him either because his record was pretty sparse. Or we couldn’t rely on Brandon Browner because he was simply a CFL retread.

      His stats in Arizona don’t have any impact on his ability to be a very useful #2 in Seattle.

      And it’s very easy to say ‘get the new guys snaps’. It’s much harder for ‘new guys’ to come into the league and instantly create chemistry with the QB, understand the offense, understand pro-DB’s. I don’t get this negativity around Jaron Brown at all. Especially after he had a good game vs Minnesota.

  17. bv eburg says:

    Concerns,
    Depth behind starters on O-line. That was atrocious after the starters left.
    Another slow first half by the offense. Russ played almost the whole first half and yet the trend continues with only 3 points scored. The defense that is an area of concern scored 7 in the first half.

    Intrigued,
    Would like to see more Amadi with the first unit. He appears cat quick with good instincts.
    The same could be said for Ursua on the offensive side. Would love to see him get some run with Russ and the first team. This kid screams Patriot to me and it would be great to see him develop that rapport with Russ. I would be concerned trying to get him to practice squad.

    • mishima says:

      Favorite picks were Barton, Blair and Amadi. I won’t be surprised if Amadi wins the slot before seasons end.

  18. Sea Mode says:

    Yeah, it was a great play and showed off his speed and ability to break away from coverage, but did anyone else think that Amadi took a big risk in laying that hit?

    I don’t think he really had any way of knowing when the ball was arriving. Seemed to me he just decided to go for the spectacular play anyway, and if the ball arrives even a fraction of a second later it’s a penalty.

    It seemed to me on the broadcast someone did shout as he was closing in. Maybe that was it. Or he has just practiced with Dickson’s hang time enough to know the timing would be right?

    Either way, it turned out great this time, so hats off to him.

  19. Nick says:

    Our first three draft picks are injured. Yay!

  20. FlappyHawkLord69 says:

    You don’t like the sky cam!? I wish they would do it more, especially on probable run plays. You get to see all the run lanes and blocks get set up.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I hate sky cam.

      It’s rubbish and you can’t tell what’s going on at all.

      • FlappyHawkLord69 says:

        Debatable. You see a lot more in terms of line play and linebacker reads. You realize how quickly those gaps open and close at the NFL level.

        Seeing run lanes develop by a coordinated offensive front is more interesting to me than downfield passing.

        Now Charles Davis, that one announcer who is grinning the entire time, is rubbish.

        • Rob Staton says:

          You don’t see anything man.

          The angle is terrible. You have zero depth and the angle of the camera from the sky doesn’t even show all 22 players most of the time. And as the play develops the sky cam desperately swirls around and it’s like being on a rowing boat in the middle of the Atlantic.

          It’s one of the worst ideas in sports broadcasting history and adds absolutely nothing to game.

          I’m happy to review all-22 from a fixed camera in the stand at a distance after the game for the purpose of analysis. During a live game there is absolutely no use or joy to be obtained from sky cam. It needs to be binned off pronto like TJ Houshmandzadeh in 2010.

          • Elmer says:

            I thought that commentators were supposed to enrich the game, not detract from it. IMO the Fox TV coverage was terrible.

          • FlappyHawkLord69 says:

            Alright, some fair points. You cant see any medium-deep receiver routes and the vertical depth perception sucks.

            But I still think you get a lot from it. Horizontal depth perception is really nice to have when watching the trenches and LBs. As someone who played a box safety in high school, I like the sky cam mixed in. It’s more like being in an actual football play where you are reading gaps and QB eyes. You don’t get any of that horizontal depth from the classic view.

  21. Madmark says:

    Here’s what I hoping for so far. If D.K. can take over the roll Jermaine Kearse had when we started to make our run in 2012. The stats don’t have to be great, we just need him to make that miracle clutch grab at the right time. Russel knows this and that’s why he’s building that bond with him. The short game with the screen pass I haven’t seen this offense consistently do it since the days of Chunk Knox Era with Dan Doornink. I’m also hoping that Penny learns from Carson what it takes to play at the pro level. I like idea of trading receiver or backup offensive lineman for a Defensive End and you all know who I’m talking about. Sorry have to run company.

  22. GoHawksDani says:

    I agree with most of the things, but you’re too soft on Penny and Flowers.
    Penny only flashed like 5-6 times in his pro career. I know, he’s young and had some injuries that kept him back…but…he’s a first round pick. He’s an amazing athlete (when he flips the field completely and outruns everyone), but as of now he’s a mediocre football player…at best. He don’t have vision, burst, he can’t get skinny in the holes, not decisive enough and plays like a 5th round pick. He needs to turn this around fast. If he can’t get through small holes he’ll be a bust. This might be harsh, but for a first round pick you need to make something even from nothing. And yeah, OL depth sucks… But it didn’t suck as much for Homer and Xavier (OK, defense might played worse guys too, but still).

    And as for Flowers… Griffin gave up a big catch, and he didn’t jam the WR and was slow in his reaction. But Flowers grabbed everyone. Watch back the game, he could have been called for DPI at least 2 times and for holding for another 4-5 times. He always has at least on hand on the WR grabbing his jersey. He doesn’t have confidence in his speed and talent. This needs to be changed. He needs to have an alpha mentality, and go for the ball, locate it and play the pigskin and not the receiver. He can easily be a top DB but as much easily an awful penalty-machine.

    Kudos to Poona, nice push. Everyone is afraid of his height. But he has better angle to push guys, I’m not afraid.
    Kendricks was good. But I’m more pumped about Barton. Might have missed 1-2 tackle, but arm-tackle issues can be fixed. But he had a nice pressure and all in all can pack a punch and good in his assignments.
    Brown and Lockett delivered. Russ was OK, but seems a bit rusty (for an amazing standard). He could’ve made 1-2 throws if he stands into those more. PTSD from previous line issues and preseason rust, not afraid, he’ll be even more amazing than he usually is.
    King was mehh, didn’t even noticed Reed (which could be a good thing), Amadi was awesome for the ST boom. I know, I know Thorpe, etc… I don’t need Thorpe, I want Amadi as ST captain, and I wanna see him more as nCB. His god great vision and good burst. Play him with the firsts lets see what he can do.

    For the last 2 games I’d like to see:
    Some Carson, but mostly Penny. I’d try him for inside runs and outside too. First to see if he can do anything or not, second because I think he’ll be better as an outside runner and a pass catcher back.
    I’d also like to see more Homer and McKissic (if he’s healthy)
    I’d bench Lockett and Brown too. We know what we have in them. Put Ursua, Jennings and Ferguson and Reynolds in the game with Russ. Let’s see who could deliver. Maybe play some Moore too, but I think he’s also a lock.
    I wanna see a DB battle. Especially at safety and nCB. I’d play Amadi a ton at nCB, maybe a bit as FS also. I have no idea who is healthy now to battle for safety spots.
    This DL is awful. Apart from Poona and Reed this is just hurtful to watch. We have no idea what’ll happen with Ansah and how good Collier can be, so I’d try to trade for someone.

    As of now, my dream starters (not 53 projection just guys who I’d like to see as starters/regular rotation guys in games) would be:
    Russ
    Brown – Haynes/Simmons – Britt – Fluker – Ifedi (I know, little to less chance for Haynes/Simmons, but I’d rather see one of them break the starting lineup than have Iupati)
    Lockett – Brown – DK – Moore – Ursua (I think Ferguson needs to be on the PS, he’s most likely a preseason star as of now)
    Carson – Penny – McKissic – Homer
    Dissly – Dickson – Hollister

    Won’t happen, but as of now I’d rather see them play 3-4 instead of 4-3.
    Poona/Reed/Woods as inside guy, Ansah/Collier/Marsh/Mingo/Martin/Jefferson on the outside
    And play Kendricks, KJ, Bobby and Barton as LBs. Calitro and BBK could stay as backups
    On the backend because we have no better option, I’d keep Griffin and Flowers and Amadi as nCB. I’d also keep Shead and King as backups. As for safeties I’d keep McDougald and Blair and either T2 or Hill. Because Amadi or Shead or even King could play as backup S and we maybe even have some flexibility for the positions I wouldn’t keep crazy depth for that position.

    • TomLPDX says:

      Nice post, Dani. I’d also add a shout-out to Calitro. He was making plays with the 1s last night and I thought he played well, always around the ball. Amadi was rocking it too, hope he catches fire. The few times Ursua got the ball he did ok, glad to see that as well. Our backup D got pushed around in the second half…the Vikings were moving at will and easily got 3rd down conversions when they needed to.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I’ve not been soft on anyone.

      I’m not going to have a rant or be overly negative about a pre season game playing with practically third string O-liners.

      People want that rubbish they can find it elsewhere. Not here.

    • Henry Taylor says:

      Is your 3-4 plan to play Barton and Kendricks as edge rushers then? Because a 3-4 has less off-ball linebackers than a 4-3.

  23. CHawk Talker Eric says:

    Poona had the best game on D, but I thought Barton played extremely well. He’s not BWags (yet?) but he’s also not Aaron Curry. A LB trio of Wags, KJ and Barton is the class of the League.

    1st string OL looks really good so far. Which makes it a little concerning they couldn’t score more than 3 points.

    To my eye, Flowers > Griffin.

    I said it before and I’ll say it again: ST might be the reason SEA make the post season (if they do).

    • Volume12 says:

      I hope their ST’s is a strong point considering thats what they were said to focus on this draft.

      Having RW and PC is good enough for 8-9 wins, but this defense is gonna need to win ’em a couple.

  24. Volume12 says:

    Remember after the draft, think it was May, Pete said something along the lines of, ‘you’ll like what were gonna do or have at DE?’

    Well, Pete. I dont like it and want a refund.

    • Chawk Talker Eric says:

      😂😂

      You’re prolly too young to remember an early Dennis Quaid movie “Breaking Away” but there’s a line where his used car salesman dad practically has an aneurysm when someone asks for a refund for a lemon.

      Refund? REFUND?!?

      😂😂

    • Nick says:

      Really bizarre that we decided to draft one DE this year. Very frustrating.

  25. charlietheunicorn says:

    John Clayton is reporting that Blair has a back injury, suffered during the game yesterday.
    I’ve not seen anything/anyone else reporting this….. but it would make some sense why I didn’t see him playing as much as I expected.

    • Logan Lynch says:

      He had back spasms that cropped up during the game. Pete talked about it in his press conference after the game.

    • Group Captain Mandrake says:

      He left the game with back spasm. Speaking from experience, I can tell you that those suck big time. Hopefully it’s not part of a larger issue (herniated disk, etc.).

  26. Bigten says:

    With Paxton getting hurt, and geno having a minor surgery, what are the odds we possibly pick up a QB at cut downs? For instances, I’ve been looking into Carolina, and reports are they are looking to keep Heineke as backup over Grier. Is he someone we could possibly go after? Also I wasn’t able to watch when Barrett got into the game, how did he look?

    • TomLPDX says:

      That would be interesting if that happened (about Grier). As for Barrett, he didn’t have a good outing…3 missed passes and an ill-fated interception to end the night. Not good for him but I certainly wasn’t expecting anything from him. Lynch struggled last night…I was hoping he would have done better…and that was a cheap shot to his head.

  27. Mark Souza says:

    My take, Poona is going to have such a breakthrough year, the League will take notice. It will be son much fun to watch, and especially when Reed gets back and opponents can’t key on him.

    The corner play. I’m not worried. The big Thielen catch, I don’t like that Griffin gave him a free release, but he was step for step with him until about a quarter second before the ball arrived when Thielen pushed off to create the space to make the catch. When Pete threw the review flag, I was pretty sure it was to review for offensive pass interference.

    And the big pass interference call on Flowers wasn’t pass interference. Yes, he touched the receiver, but he didn’t impede his progress at all, didn’t grab a hand or arm, or push him out of the way. They were both in perfect position to receive the ball, and the only reason the receiver didn’t catch it wasn’t due to any contact, it was that Flowers got his big paw up and swatted it down before it could get to the receiver. Bad call. It won’t be the last.

    • Volume12 says:

      I agree with ya about that Flowers call. Also kinda strange they didnt challenge the Mattison fumble.

      • Rob Staton says:

        Can’t challenge forward progress

      • CHawk Talker Eric says:

        I thought it was pretty clear Flowers grabbed the receiver’s left arm on his PI call 🤷🏻‍♂️

        • MyChestIsBeastMode says:

          Ya, he definitely had his hand on the WR arm even if it didn’t really push/pull the WR much if at all. If his hand is only on the WR’s back then he probably gets away with it. Besides that, his play was beautiful. If he gets that offhand under control while looking back at the ball he’ll be in great shape. All that being said, I could easily see them allowing some leeway in regular season with a call like that given that Flowers was looking at the ball and doing his damnedest to play the ball.

          • CHawk Talker Eric says:

            Yeah I think not only does Flowers have a higher ceiling than Griffin, I think he’s a better cover corner right now. Taking nothing away from Griffin, whom I think is a decent starter.

  28. RWIII says:

    WOW! These injuries are starting to pile up . Don’t understand why all injuries. It seems many of these injuries are happening at practice. It makes you wonder what is going on in practice. Plus the secondary did not look as good against the Vikings. You can now count me in on Jadeveon Clowney. In am ALL IN on Jadeveon Clowney. Before the weekend I took a pass on Clowney. But now particularly the way the secondary looked. And the injuries(although minor) are starting to pile up. You have Iupati, Simmons Haynes, Collier, D.K. Metcalk, Blair, Shaquem Griffin, not to mention other players such as that have missed time do to injuries such as Ansah, Dickson, Delano Hill, Gary Jennings, McKissick, Travis Homer etc. etc. etc. Like I mentioned earlier that pass defense did not look good. So I am all in on Clowney.

    • lil’stink says:

      Injuries are a wildcard. Could be random, could be due to our new strength and conditioning coach having an absolutely horrible reputation. Why PC hired him I have no idea. I think PC sometimes mistakes familiarity for competence.

      • LLLOGOSSS says:

        What have you heard about the S&C coach?

        • lil’stink says:

          Nicknamed “Ivan the Terrible”, and not in an affectionate way. Worked at USC and UW. Fans of both colleges seem to universally loathe him. Not that us fans know everything, or anything, really. But his reputation amongst the more knowledgeable die yards is really, really bad.

  29. Jamho3 says:

    Austin Calitro,

    99% of us have “cut” him from our roste but we can’t keep him off of the field he keeps making plays. Gotta love that guy.

    • Denver Hawker says:

      Totally agree- he’s making the team. Started and played well with the 1’s. His coverage ability isn’t great, but he has high energy and tackles strong. Thought BBK played exactly like his scouting report, nose for the ball, but undersized. Dude finishes tackles but not wiithout giving a few yards. Hope he can make the PS.

      • Jamho3 says:

        Thanks for the supportive words. I agree, the way I see it is that Calitro keeps making plays and the only thing for SEA to do is to keep him above the other players based on merit.

        Though last season on the field I felt like Calitro was a replacement level player. Just not the caliber we’ve been accustomed to.

        When push comes to shove you’ve got to hold Calitro to his performance last year BUT I feel like in this try out process he’s earned maybe another legit week or two of a real chance to make the team.

        Just looking at the LB group I’m not sure if there is a place for him BUT you’ve got to respect that he seems to have shown better than some of the other guys on the field.

        Ultimately I think he gets cut as this is the sort of move that PC seems to specialize in taking youth over skill with limited upside and getting the benefit late season and going forward. I just respect a guy who has everything against him but toughs it out.

  30. Jamho3 says:

    Anyone remember when SEA brought Brandon Browner back in the hybrid role they created just for him? Cover TE’s and be around the line of scrimmage?

    After one of the preseason games someone asked Coach C.

    “What about BB?”

    C. said. “Oh we know what he can do.”

    That’s looking very reminiscent of Barkiveous Mingo so far this year in his position change.

    • CHawk Talker Eric says:

      IRC BB didn’t make it to the final roster. That could be your point though, considering Mingo has been all but invisible so far.

      • Jamho3 says:

        Eric, yes that sort of is my point.

        Kind of like Dave Grosby calls it “Parsing Pete.”

        If Pete isn’t trying to see a boarderline Vet in the preseason sometimes it means he’s not on pace to make the final 53.

        In the case of Mingo, it’s not the same as Browner Mingo’s actually get a real tryout. I felt like Mingo flashed on “teams” in game 2 but not as an edge.

        Now imagine if Shaq49 is also going to be a terror on teams AND if Martin can contribute there too, then it might make sense to keep the younger guys who don’t cost as much and are improving vs keeping Mingo?

        I’m the only Mingo fan I know BUT I’m just trying to guess at the teams reasoning.

  31. Denver Hawker says:

    I’m going to throw myself in the cautioned optimist camp. I thought the first team O looked sharp, dare I say even with Pocic. Russell has time to throw and weapons. O-line depth is critical, but every team has the same problem. Our guards just have the injury history unfortunately.

    Defense even looked mostly good without Wags and KJ. Eager to see what Ansah/Reed/Ford/Collier can do- hopefully we’ll get to see Week 7. DL held up well against the run.

    DB has me the most concerned. They have depth, but young and mediocre depth. Griffin/Thompson may have hit their ceiling already, and yet they look to be the starters. Vikings are a good offense, but I thought the overall play was underwhelming. Shead seems to keep doing enough to deserve a spot along with Amadi (if there was any doubt).

    Special Teams looks incredible.

    • SeaHusky says:

      Agreed.

      First-team offense looked great. Pass protection was phenomenal.

      Defense is concerning, especially in the secondary. Our LBs is easily one of, if not the, best in the league. However, EDGE pressure is absolutely non-existent. Poona stepping up is great, but there’s so many question marks along the entire DL. If Ansah never gets fully healthy, it’s going to be a long year. DL and EDGE has to be a major area of focus for the 2020 draft.

      I like how McDougald and Blair look (aside from the busted coverage), but Griffin is immensely frustrating. So athletic, and yet he still can’t consistently turn his head around and play the ball in year 3. Tre shows flashes of potential, but he still has a tendency to grab, grab, grab. Adding competition here next year will be essential as well.

      • charlietheunicorn says:

        They will be looking to add at the outside CB position, even if both guys start playing up to the gold standard. getting beat over the top, on an admittingly great throw, is complexly unacceptable. The PI on the long throw deep up the seam was more forgivable. Considering he is a rather large CB, he was at least in position to impact the play… unlike others.

        The guy that looks like garbage to me was Taylor, but the talking heads on 950 today said he has been the most consistent 3rd CB in practice. He only started getting first team reps within the last 2 “practice” days or so, prior to the game. So, I guess I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt for 2 more preseason games.

      • McZ says:

        This is why I thought ‘ouch’ when they drafted Metcalf over Zach Allen, Ximines and Winovich.
        This years draft with edge talent going deep into 5th round will never come back.

        Same goes for Julian Love, CB, who WAS Notre Dames secondary in person.

        There are players were you absolutely feel they will have a long NFL career, and then there are the guys were you think holy crap, why are they not able to adapt their freakish bodies into something NFL viable.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I’ve no issue at all with the Metcalf pick. I talked about him a few times as not a first round prospect IMO. Getting him in the late second was fantastic value though. Much better than the other options. And let’s be right here, is Ximines the difference between a good and bad DL this year? Not at all. Winovich was an option but are we crowning him a top pass rusher now and Metcalf not a good receiver? And receiver was a big need too especially since Baldwin’s retirement.

          Love didn’t fit the physical measurables PC has drafted.

          Let’s not second guess a draft class two games into pre season.

          • McZ2 says:

            I have no issue with Metcalf or the pick; I expected the Hawks to fill an area of desperate need before jumping on a WR (who still has to make his first ingame catch).

            So, here we are, still debating about edge defender depth.

            Speculating if Ximines or Winovich will be difference makers on DL is impossible to tell. They have the same chance to make it as Collier has. They are actually on the field, performing well so far against first string offenses.

            While Collier misses the whole preseason, missing valiable time he needs to overcome his technique deficits in pass rush.

            • Rob Staton says:

              How was receiver not an enormous need? The Baldwin retirement wasn’t out of the blue. The team knew what was going on. They absolutely needed to add a receiver. It was a crucial, vital need.

              They also added a DE with their first pick and had the plan to sign Ansah. Look — ideally they add another body before the season starts. But there’s absolutely no need to second guess the draft picks. Ximines is not the difference between the DL being good or inadequate this season.

    • Jamho3 says:

      Looking at it that way I think we’ll be good.

      OL pass blocking was really good. How many starters was Minn keeping out?

      SEA 1st team offense looked really good. We had 2 drops and a wonky short throw by RW3 aside from that everything else in the passing game looked fine. If our problem is only that we need to play better I’m happy with that.

      DL is going to be banged up. We’ll be good with with LJ, Reed, and Ansah not sure 10 games of them will be enough to get us the home games that we’ve shown we need in the playoffs.

      I agree that AT outclassed Shaq26 and then TFlowers on back to back plays. But if you watch the catch vs Shaq that was nearly perfect execution AND he barely came down in bounds. PC said there 100% was an OPI but it just wasn’t called.

      Furthermore minituia but if i can’t share this with y’all who can I share it with?

      Cousins was just as fearless vs us in 2017 on his previous team and really executed as well as anyone has vs us at the end of the game as I recall. Yes BW missed 3 kicks but KC made a number of really good plays vs us in SEA that day. Sometimes you’ve just got to tip your cap.

      It’s really horrible to have our DB’s get lit up like that back to back but it happened and we don’t have better on the roster.

      As far as our slot DB’s and Safeties, I’m so thankful we have PC to help us sort those out. Seems like there is a fair amount of work to do still and that flexibility is going to be paramount. So Amadi, Blair, D Shead gotta be in the lead?

  32. Ukhawk says:

    It’s a year of growth, integrated youth and them learning the system, finding key parts, leaders stepping up, building a winning mentality. This isn’t the finished product so settle down and settle in everyone.

  33. Rob Staton says:

    Watching the 49ers at Denver… think the win last week has taken a hit. Denver’s depth is appalling.

  34. jujus says:

    JS on 710 this morning, really pushing the idea of Everson griffen for a mid-late round pick as a trade the hawks are looking at.

    I love it.

    • Logan Lynch says:

      JS or JC? No offense to Clayton, but he’s been wrong a lot of times. In this case, however, I’d do it. Even if he hits the playing time or sack clauses that void the rest of the deal after 2019, a cheap rental for him would be fine with me. They’ve been linked to Griffen multiple times before. Plus, you can never have too many Griffen’s (or Griffin’s).

      • LLLOGOSSS says:

        Nothing to do with the trade idea, but I put almost no stock in what Clayton says anymore. I’m sure his connections are all great, but he’s just barely cogent half the time. His brand is expertise, but he gets by on much less, I find. Just a name.

    • Volume12 says:

      Would be a lot of fun to see Griffen and Pete reunited. That ’08 USC defense is one of the greatest to never win a title. 7.8 PPG they gave up. lol

  35. Volume12 says:

    This is a gigantic human being. Absolute unit. Out here looking like the Predator. The RB he’s standing next to is 215-220 lbs.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/CFBHome/status/1163593389742415878/photo/1

    • DC says:

      Good Gads, that’s one ginormously freaky dude! Just looking at the pic I feel like his knees are gonna give out at some point.

  36. Coleslaw says:

    Demetrius Knox to IR. Looks like he’ll get a redshirt year. Probably done for the year unless they cut him with an injury settlement and try to get him on the practice squad

  37. charlietheunicorn says:

    So….

    If you could get Coney for a 2nd and Griffen for a 5th….

    Deals or no deals?

    • charlietheunicorn says:

      Clowney***

    • Rob Staton says:

      Don’t think they can afford both

    • Simo says:

      Love Clowney for a 2nd, assuming he’s willing to play under the tag this year. There’s no indication yet he’s willing to in Houston, but perhaps it would be different if/when he’s traded. We could tag him again next year, and then still get a 3rd round comp pick in 2021.

      Griffen for a 5th seems like a no-brainer, assuming his health is good. We might even be able to re-sign him to a 2-3 year team friendly deal.

  38. James says:

    We are in that time of the preseason that the team doctor seems more important to the season than Pete and his staff. Knock wood – we haven’t had any season-ending injuries to key players, unlike many teams (see Chargers, D James). It seems to me that we have an inordinate number of players who are out, but projected to be back on or near game one: DK, Iupati, Wagz, KJ, LJ, Ziggy, Lano, etc. The season may well turn on most of these guys starting against the Bengals and playing healthy all season (Iupati is the exception, only a fool would project that he would be healthy for even half the games).

    Besides return from injury over the next three weeks, the other big issue is the 53 man roster, who to keep because they will never clear waivers, and who might be slipped through to the practice squad. The biggest battle is at WR, where Lockett, Brown, Moore, DK and Jennings are locks (though we are still waiting for Moore to make his first big play since about last October). Ferguson and Ursua show tremendous promise, and will not clear waivers. Jazz is a physical freak, only a notch below DK, and Pete will not let him go and watch him lighting it up for some other team for years to come. His natural ability to use his size to block out as if he was a power forward can’t be taught. Ursua is as quick as Doug, and you simply have to develop him. The other WRs they wish to keep, either Reynolds, Wright, or Turner, could probably clear waivers and be placed on the practice squad.
    In order to keep so many WRs, I would only keep three RBs: Carson, Penny and Homer. That is plenty of depth for game day, and further depth can be kept on the practice squad in the person of McKissic or Scarbrough. I would never keep a FB just for the 5 plays he is on the field, let a TE be lead blocker for those few plays.

    The other rookies, past R4, who I don’t believe would clear waivers, are BBK and Mone, so I think we keep them on the 53. Shaquem has not performed at LB or Leo, but is an exceptional Teams player, and surely some other team would claim him if waived. I think Pete gives him one more year. Barton is so versatile, and KJ can be moved about if needed, plus BBK and Griffin, that they can probably go thin at LB and try to get Calitro through waivers.

    Obviously, the Seahawks are alarmingly weak at DE and DB. Blair is super talented but not ready, Lano may not even make the 53, and Amadi is a key backup, but McDougald and Thompson are going to have to hold the fort. Flowers and Griffin are only adequate at this point, and badly need a pass rush in front of them to succeed. Green, Marsh and Martin are underwhelming or inconsistent, so Ziggy is going to have to be the miracle man, or John makes a trade, or we will be hard pressed to perform on defense. If all goes well, we go 11-5 and Russ dazzles with a brilliantly talented and balanced offense.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think Jazz will clear waivers.

      Lot of baggage and not as good week 2 with two catches from seven targets.

    • Curtis Allen says:

      McKissic isn’t PS eligible.

    • James says:

      Add George Fant to those expected back by week one. I think that makes 7 of our top 20+ players currently out, and hopefully back by the Bengals game. Fingers crossed. The tweet from DK clearly shows he only had a scope, so he should be back within two weeks and probably feeling better than ever.

  39. Logan Lynch says:

    One thing I noticed the other night that I forgot to mention was defenders punching at the ball on a few tackles. Tre did it and I remember hearing that he talked to Peanut Tillman this offseason, who was a master of that. I think he’ll force a few fumbles this year. Can’t remember who else did it…maybe Shead?

    • Sea Mode says:

      B-Max was the master at that. It’s a coaching point for all, but I remember PC saying in some press conference that some guys just have a knack for knocking the ball out, and Maxwell was the example.

      • Logan Lynch says:

        Maxwell was definitely the best they’ve had so far. Kam and Earl did it a few times too. I recall that PC conference you’re talking about. He basically said they try to teach it to everyone, but it’s not something all the players are good at like you mentioned. Just seems to me that Flowers might be able to do it well and the fact that he sought out Peanut is a good sign.