What have we just witnessed?
The most important game of the season with the playoffs on the line.
Final score: Seahawks 7-42 Rams
Merry Christmas.
Todd Gurley running in a 57-yard touchdown with seconds left in the first half, on 3rd and 20, shockingly wasn’t the tipping point.
That came long before the Rams climbed to a 34-0 half time lead.
Bad special teams, Russell Wilson’s -23 yard backwards pass, yet another horrendous start, turnovers, no resistance on defense.
The Seahawks embarrassed in their own backyard.
42-7. In Seattle. At Century Link.
Before we continue, let’s qualify one thing. The injuries, while not an excuse, are a cause. Bobby Wagner was on the field but nowhere near 100%. No Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman, K.J. Wright, Cliff Avril. And the rest.
The Seahawks are decimated, clinging to a post-season opportunity thanks to Russell Wilson and a relatively easy schedule.
Now that’s out of the way — let’s get real. Because there’s losing and there’s being embarrassed in your own stadium. A meek surrender of the NFC West, of the season.
Where was the famous grit? The legendary fight and spirit this team has so often showed? Where was the pride, allowing the Rams to come to Seattle and deliver a shellacking?
Why were the Seahawks seemingly so ill-prepared for the biggest game of the year?
Why are they so incapable of getting out of their own way?
What happens now?
Playoffs? Even if the Seahawks win their next two games, which feels like a major stretch, it might not be enough.
The Seahawks gambled on aggressive trades in an attempt to make this a Championship season. Now it feels like their worst since 2009. At least in 2010 and 2011 it was the beginning of the rebuild — with a few memorable moments building towards Seattle’s first Super Bowl win. Young stars were emerging. Momentum growing.
Now it’s starting to feel like the reverse is happening.
If they don’t make the playoffs, which feels likely, they’ll face an off-season with so many question marks. They’ve already spent their second and third round picks in 2018 and their second rounder in 2019.
The scope to overhaul the team in the draft is severely limited as a consequence.
They don’t have the cap room to make major changes in free agency. Several key players may or may not retire. Even if they return, can you rely on ageing players to stay healthy?
What does the future hold for the Seahawks? Good luck answering that one. Nothing it seems should be off the table for discussion after this.
At the very least, big questions have to be asked about how this season has played out and the direction the team is heading.
To think we spent the last few weeks looking at running backs, believing Seattle’s biggest problem is a non-existent running game.
Things are a bit more serious than that, it seems.
This is one game and things can change quickly in seven days. The Seahawks are fortunate they have two weeks to try and make up for this.
Yet it’s the way this played out that’ll have so many people asking previously unthinkable questions this week. The Seahawks don’t lose like this. Not at home. Not in the Pete Carroll era.
At least until today.
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Time for a rebuild. Goal should be to compete seriously in 2019. The cap issues next year are simply too daunting.
While I love Pete Carroll, I think a new coaching staff might be better positioned to rebuild. Pete is too attached to the players of yesterday. Paul Allen can hire the absolute best. This coaching staff is not the absolute best. I’ve been saying that all year. I think today is proof.
Specifics actions that should be taken in a rebuilding mode:
1. At a minimum, Tom Cable must go. The offensive line was completely embarrassed and unprepared.
2. I’m in favor of new coordinators on both sides of the ball.
3. Don’t sign J. Graham.
4. Don’t sign Sheldon Richardson.
5. Don’t sign Joeckel. He sucks. I don’t care what Tom Cable says. He sucks.
6. Trade a veteran for a draft pick. (You have to trade someone good in order to get something good back. The Hawks have an eye for linebackers in the draft. KJ Wright for a 2nd round pick? Don’t scream at me. You can’t trade garbage for a high draft choice.)
Agree w pretty much everything you say here
Yep, let all the FA go. Would prefer Sherman and Bennett to go. Depth at those spots, but would be ok with KJ too. Let PC decide if he wants to stay (he really looks tired to me and not sure if he wants to coach here anymore), but for sure, get rid of all 3 coordinators.
+ 1 well put and agree completely.
Love Pete and think he is an amazing human being but he kept this coaching staff and Cable in particular out of loyalty. If he is not willing to make the changes required he has to be changed unfortunately.
It was very telling when Sherman came out last year and mocked Pete saying the vets don’t listen anymore.
This team was ill prepared and poorly coached all year in all phases and today was just the icing on the case. Well coached teams don’t lead the league in penalties and beat themselves time and time again.
A major over haul is required not a tweak!
Its very evident players arent responding to Carroll anymore.
All coaching staff below caroll has to be changed. They’re stale. Stagnant. Predictable. If PCmisnt down for that he needs to go,too.
Been saying it here for years and I ain’t the only one ; cable is a F’ng joke of a coach and the hubris around his approach is mindboggling. This team Is badly coached. Period. Carroll needs to wake up and smell the ass kicking or hit the road.
We aren’t getting a 2nd round pick for KJ. This isn’t a video game.
Totally agree. In NFL time, Seattle’s SB championship happened ages ago. As dominant as that team was, this isn’t that team (and hasn’t been for a few years). That team was young, fast, brash, aggressive, and had the personnel to be more physical than its opponents. Time has caught up with a lot of our star players. As appreciative as I am for what they have meant to the team, It’s time to trim the overpriced fat from the roster, rebuild it to best utilize its biggest asset… a superstar franchise QB… and quit living in the past. The great franchises always seem to know just a little bit sooner than everyone else when its time to move on from players who are on the verge of decline. I don’t know that I see that with Seattle.
It’s the end of an era.
The Seahawks have been consistent in one way this entire season – they’ve been woefully unprepared on offense in the 1st quarter. The offense has scored one 1st quarter TD all year! I can’t help think that’s a coaching issue. How much of a role does Wilson play in the slow starts? Or is it the lack of a plan to move the ball down the field? Or simply the worst offensive line (and OL coach, in my opinion) in the league?
These games happen are we this bad probably not but also looks like we are not nearly as good as we were in philly. Time for the team to look in the mirror and ecodenwhonthwy are going forward. Are we going to try and get the band back together for a run or or we going to take a few steps back with an eye toward the future. This seahawks team has found it self squarely in the middle of the league to good to be in contention for the top picks not good enough to matter. Our best chance to win next year is to run it back with the guys who can still play and add a little wrinkle here and there, but it doesn’t seem realistic, the better move might be to scrap what you can for picks/parts and force your self to get younger again and see if we can catch that lightning in the bottle again
What a sad, sad performance. Watching this game was like watching every other game, except without any of the positive results. No first half performance followed up by no second half performance. As you said, it would seem big changes are needed but what are the changes and to what positions/coaches?
This will be the hardest and most challenging offseason faced by PC/JS yet.
I think the Saints might offer us a good model for rebuilding going forward based on what they’ve done with Drew Brees.
The NFL sucks and it’s broken. Need proof?
Look how overly complicated they’ve made a dumb easy sport.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MikePereira/status/942551256693743616
Matchups and moving pieces on a chess board. That’s it. That’s what this game is. Why have they turned it into this?
* turned it into the link above
What!? LOL.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MikePereira/status/942551415498481665
Also the Steelers got hosed, that was a TD.
Agree Vol the game is almost unwatchable at times with all the penalties and other crap. All joking aside with all the CTE and other issues I see the NFL at the beginning of a major decline.
I hate to pig Pyle on a guy but I agree with some changes at coordinator. You have to think Bevel is gone at this point. Need some fresh blood in there. I’m torn on Cable. I would be fine with Kris Richard staying ad the injuries just became to much on defense. I think some guys jobs are on the line these next two weeks.
I’m staggered that after watching that, people are focusing on Bevell and Cable again.
Look higher for a change.
Unfortunately I think it needs a clean sweep from coordinators on up. Richard has only coached.Carrols D and Cable and Bevell run the offense Pete wants. If a change comes in at the top, you would have to think a change at tbe next level would have to occur.
Really Rob??? You looking at PC???
As much as I hated him as an opposing coach I’d look at Jim Harbaugh…
Your right its higher up but bevel and cable have to be on the list considering just how bad the offense was this year.
well, if PC goes, then Cable, Richard and Bevel are gone also.
If PC stays, hard to see those 3 going. Special teams coach? There has been steady decline there for a few years.
Just not sure PC has enough left in the tank anymore, and a change of scenery can work for the coaching staff.
Hard for me to believe that Paul Allen will fire PC, I think those 2 Super Bowls still have some glow. He might ask Pete is he wants to stay, or what he plans to do to get better.
however, just remember, sometimes changes are for the worse.
the team needs more young players, especially on D. Need hungry players who just want it more.
And the team needs toughness on offense. RB, TE and WR all need someone who can inflict some punishment.
I would let P Rich, Graham and Sheldon go. PRich is JAG, Graham has too many games where he does not show up and Sheldon is not a $14 mil a year player. Need value and cannot overpay.
Give me some young, hungry guys.
And as much as we all love JS, lets not leave him out of the blame department. Giving up high pics for Harvin, JG, Sheldon and Brown have had an impact and will continue to impact some depth issues on the team. I cannot think of other GM’s so willing to trade away high pics unless it is for a QB.
very important off season. Can we bounce back, or continue to decline?
There is still a very good core, and with some luck in the draft and better health next year, they can bounce back. But it will not be easy and other teams are also improving
I agree JS carries some blame but again PC is the boss and has the final say
My biggest fault with the FO is the extensions that are now going to bite us in the rear. It’s hard to tell who’s at fault between PC/JS, but either way, we’ve made some bad decisions. We also handled some stuff (Sherman trade talk) poorly. Should have just moved him in the off season.
It’s a long list IMO. But it doesn’t start with Cable and Bevell.
Pete, Bevell, and Cable need to go. Possibly JS, depending on how many of the draft selections in the last three years were his and how many were Pete’s. The FO has done to the Hawks what we used to make fun of with the Saints; mortgaged the future instead of continually building the future. Look at the FA deals and high pick trades that PC/JS have made; Harvin (huge bust), Graham, (arguably a huge bust considering it hurt our OL), Richardson (meh, really hasn’t delivered and we won’t keep him), Lacy, (seriously?), Joeckel. We used to talk about building through the draft, and signing CHEAP FAs. And not paying players that were only role players; not paying players on the decline, etc.
But we extended Bennett far longer than we should’ve. Extended Kam even though he was a high injury risk, extended both Kearse and Lane. Then we traded Kearse away!
Forgot to give credit for the Brown acquisition, but we paid a lot for an old LT who will want big bucks or he’ll hold out again next year like he did to the Texans.
I’m staggered anyone is calling for Pete to go, and surprised anyone wouldn’t agree that getting new coordinators in on both sides of the ball is an obvious starting point. How in the world anyone can look at what Cable has produced over the past years and not think he should be replaced is a bit amusing to me.
A wholesale change to HC and GM seems like an over reaction. But the offense needs an overhaul and Cable is living off a reputation that just isn’t matched by reality.
Add ending the Tanner McEvoy experiment on the list for next year…drops, fumbles, and an average special teams player…dude is just weak sauce all around…
+1 Totem. McEvoy missed at least 2 critical tackles on special teams and fumbled. He should be replaced.
The OLINE was very frustrating today. They have taken so many steps forward and too do many back today.
12th man flag flying at half mast tonight.
Sea Mode, out.
It definitely feels like something died tonight.
We gave up 244 rushing yards today and we have to play against Zeke Elliot coming off a 6 week suspension. Good luck with that.
I laughed when Zeke told Eric Dickerson that he was going to drop 200 yards on us. Now I think that’s a reasonable goal, especially if Wagz is playing hurt again.
I fully expected this.
That disgraceful end to last weeks game symbolized so much. No discipline, poor sportsmanship, no class. Picking a fight when you just got whooped is a terrible sign, and shows the coaching staff has lost the team, and the players are looking to fight instead of being focused on football.
The Who,e thing just came crashing down.
Not being prepared to play offense in the first half of every game sans Philly is an indictment of terrible offensive coaching too imo.
My early offseason wish list.
I preface this by saying I love Pete Carroll he is my all time favorite NFL personality just behind Kenny Easly as my all time NFL favorite.
Hawks 2018
GM John Schinder
HC Matt Patricia + DC of his choosing
OC Lane Kiffin + OL coach of his choosing
Option #2
GM John Schinder
HC Nick Saban and whatever coaching staff he wants
I don’t want either Patricia or Kiffin anywhere near the Hawks to be honest.
Jim Schwartz maybe? Wonder how Jim Harbough would feel about moving up to Seattle…
No thanks on Option 1 and good luck with Option 2 but I would take it.
I just think the league is an offensive league now and requires an innovative offensive mind. Look at the teams having success (McDaniels, Haley, Mcvey, Petersen).
The league is never about offense it’s always about defense
All along I’ve been think of the Seahawks becoming the ‘Fighting Harbaughs, part deux’. I’m sure he’d move on from Michigan given the right kind of ownership and support.
We need some grit again.
.
harbaugh can’t beat teams in his own conference given every possible resource. he fixed the miners until he rapidly was overtaken by Pete Carol. let’s not on harbaugh
There’s one BIG BIG BIG issue to consider about Jim Harbaugh: everywhere he goes it doesn’t end well and he wears out his welcome quickly. Luck doesn’t want him anywhere near Indy and we all know what happened with the 49ers. Saban is going to demand total control (because he’s a control freak). I would look for a young offensive innovative mind. I still think we need to get rid of Richard. He wasn’t great when he had all the horses and he is terrible at in game adjustments.
IMHO, this season was lost at the beginning by trying to focus on issues outside of football. I’m not choosing sides, but it is hard to serve two masters.
It definitely feels like a changing of the guard. I agree with a lot of the posts on here. PC has to let go of some of his older players and bring in the next crop or decide if he doesn’t want to do that. If we continue down this path, we will be the post Super Bowl Cowboys/49ers of the 80’s and 90’s. Hanging onto great players too long, signing these players to big contracts for past performances and having to pay the CAP Reaper eventually.
Bennett, Sherman and I agree with gentleman who said K.J. should be looked at as well, as possible trade bait. I would not resign Joeckel, Rawls gone, Lacy done, etc., but new blood needs to be brought in. New blood usually equals hunger, desire, etc., something this team has lacked for a while. The way this team has played now for two years during a loss is embarrassing. Fighting, being defiant when challenged by media because they don’t like what is written about them, threatening folks’ job, disrespecting your HC. All of this speaks to a ship gone awry.
if we’re playing fantasy coach then I’d like to see how Dabo Sweeney feels about entering into the league. honestly there are almost zero current or past coordinators I’d want in seattle. what worked for Pete was his time away in college gave him insights into players for a few years plus if you’re doing a rebuild do a rebuild. Pete may have final say who knows but is is responsible for some of the heavy contracts.
I like that idea Peter
He just signed a new deal with Clemson for about $7M apy. I doubt he would leave. I watch all Clemson games and love the dude but he doesnt strike me as a pro coach
Today was the end of an era in Seahawks football. This core that first came in 2010 with Earl Thomas and by 2012 and 2013 became the most ferocious defense in football has finally aged to the point that most or all of them are done. The perennial pain in the side younger brother Rams have finally matured and taken down the old lion at their own place. There is a new king, a new alpha, a new sherrif in town. It’s time for a reboot, a rebuild. It’s not a rip to the studs rebuild, that’s when Russ is old and retires, but a transition into a new era of Seahawks football. Almost every position and coach is either on the hot seat or up for grabs this offseason. They bet it all for this year and will be left with nothing to show for it, not even a playoff appearance in all likelihood. It was great while it lasted, lets only hope they transition back into a winning program again and not transition into a mediocre or worse program. Sad sad day!
That was rough. For the last five years we’ve been able to out-talent other teams, using simple schemes to line up and beat them. Lose your stars to injury and, well… Stars and scrubs works as a roster strategy when everyone is fit, but when they aren’t things can get bad quickly.
We still have a quarterback, and arguably two of the five best defenders in the league (Earl and Bobby). There’s a framework to build around, and a bounce-back could happen fast. Just look at the Saints, or the Jags, sometimes it only takes a couple of pieces, a decent run of health, and you’re off to the races.
This rendition of Seahawks football makes me very uneasy. We are without a ton of draft capital and even if we make the playoffs, we are nearly assured to be one and done against the NFC’s best. If we make the playoffs the outcome will suck and if we lose out we get a high #1 and everybody we traded with gets high picks because of us.
I’m dissatisfied by how old we look. I don’t mean to overreact but this isn’t Seahawks football.
My most disappointing Seahawks over the season has been:
-Graham’s lack of RAC or catches over the middle(love the tds though)
-Thomas Rawls a.k.a the Ghost in a shell, once seen as someone special who could be a plug and play Lynch replacement but now holds a clipboard and is kept because ‘potential’
-Sheldon Richardson: his lack of sacks, pressure and run stuffing. I get a feeling that Naz Jones might win that spot.
-Michael Bennett: his attitude mostly and lack of production against quality opponents.
-Bevell: a very hot and cold offense, haven’t had a serviceable screen game since Tate.
-Malik: I get sick of people making excuses for athletes behavior because they’re good at football.
-We are getting old and tired
Positives going Forward:
-Chris Carson looks like a good RBBC back.
-Reed has improved
-Naz has been a steal and I hope he can be healthy.
-Pocic has been decent, needs to get stronger but being not a dumpster fire is a plus
I would also consider a HC change.. Pete just doesn’t look like he’s having fun anymore and his passion is gone. Hopefully, he’ll find his mojo again this offseason
Also Bobby shouldn’t have been out there. Watching him try and tackle Gurley on the 53 yard run was painful. He just couldn’t move.
The Rams, specifically: Gurley on offense and Donald on defense will need to be “handled” for the minimum of two games in the coming years, from within the division. What has to happen to do that? Very likely some scheme changes? Potentially some coaching changes? Which 2018 draft picks/cheap FA additions could help with this?
The draft has to help with this as FA money will be at a premium due to cap space & dead money. – So, what players can be drafted to best help next year to control the two-headed monster the Rams have become? Addressing needs such as: Run defense, OL, edge & RB. I think have to be priorities in the coming draft. Also, IMO the “transition” will likely take some time, perhaps 2-3 years, especially considering their lesser draft capital available. I’m still sick to my stomach from what I saw yesterday, but, after 40 years of watching this team, both up and down over the years. I will remain a Seahawks fan no matter what, I’m too old to change horses in the middle of a race. It will get a little worse, before it gets better…..again.
List of “untouchables”?
Russell, Wags, ET III, who else???
Clark, Britt, Griffin, Reed, Jones
I’d add doug
+1
The only players I’d pencil in at their positions for next season are Russ, Doug, Lockett, Brown, Britt, Clark, Wagner, Griffin, Coleman and Earl. Every other position is up for grabs. Nobody is safe in terms of this organization except Schniedier. Going to lose a lot of talent due to retirements and free agency, with minimal draft capital to rebuild. Could be looking at a 2-3 season transition period a la Steelers a few seasons ago.
I like the Steeler comparison. They took a step bk for a cpl years Hawks will do the same.
why is js safe?
He still add tremendous depth of talent to this team he made some great moves just the injuries mounted to a level we couldn’t maintain. But is put together a good rosters even his fringe guys contributed lots id keep JS for sure.
Coleman is on a one-year deal. He’ll cost a decent bit to resign.
He’s an RFA – not going to break the bank.
I would add Doug, Brown, Britt, Clark, Reed, Jones, Carson, Lockett, and I guess contrary to some on this board right now, Pete Carroll. I don’t think you fire the HC for missing the playoffs for the first time in five seasons, if you are looking to stay completive. Just my humble opinion.
It kills me to say this but this season the coaching issue goes way beyond position coaches and coordinators! Pete is a legend in Seattle and for good reason. He had lost this team however and not just today but all season. They are ill prepared and undisciplined. That falls on the HC no one else.
The rebuild this off season should begin with Pete and the rest of the coaching staff. Love Pete the human but it is time for a change IMO.
+1
Love ya Pete, but either this offseason or next it’s time to gracefully move on from him.
For the most part I did not feel all season long that this was a Super Bowl team. In fact I felt they was a playoff team cause of the defense and that it. Watching this offense I feel they should give back half their salary for the year because they only played a half of the game causing more wear and tear on the defense. I’m not very high on tom Cable ability to find talent there like other teams have. I was a Cable guy but as I watched RB leave here and do good on other teams I just not sure anymore. I feel like we are the 49ers team when PC and JS took over, a good team but got really old faster than I thought it was. I feel the teams that made trades this year for our picks are the lucky ones and watch the Rams they QB and a RB now. I think this team got old on defense and the offense was all but ignored to become what it is now.
I’m with you madmark, from game 1 at Green Bay. Our O-line was a dumpster fire. We couldn’t run, we couldn’t protect. It didn’t matter how good the defense was. If you can’t score, you can’t win. Years of O-line neglect have come back to roost. And yes, I know we have spent draft capital on O-linemen, but we’ve drafted poorly, placing too much stock on potential and physical traits and performance numbers rather than on prior performance and the mastery of the skill-sets required to do the job. We were told “don’t worry, Tom will coach them up.” Clearly that doesn’t work. Time to move on and change things.
I think there is a lot (tangible and intangible) going on with this team that all simply blew up at a critical moment, in embarrassing fashion. The Philly game was not an illusion, that is what they “should be”. As bad as the injuries are, they have enough talent and depth to compete. The Patriots are, if anything, worse off injury-wise, but they manage to compete, even on losing weeks.
I still believe the central problem is coaching. It’s top down. Pete has run out of ways to get these guys motivated. He has been too attached to a lot of things, and didn’t do enough years ago to freshen things up. Too attached to his coordinators definitely, and Cable/Richard/Bevell simply will not do. Certain players definitely have had too much rope, too much time. Aging veterans and older free agents, too much leeway even when their performance drops off.
Can we declare that Cable’s OL experiment is an official bust now? Russell has won games with heroics, but the long term problem is that he should not need to be that heroic. Hero mode has ingrained some bad habits into his game, and we saw them today. Bevell and Cable have to go, and the whole offense needs an upgrade.
Kris Richard’s D has been inferior to Quinn/Norton ever since he took over. That also has to change.
Bottom line, there are going to be tough decisions to make offseason. It could go in a number of directions.
I wish we could declare that we don’t have to keep talking about coordinators.
A healthy dose of reality was dished out today. The Rams showed us the importance of a good cohesive offensive line, and the liability of having a poor one, even with an escape artist QB. This team needs to put as much priority on the O-line as the team has on the D-line. Games are won and lost in the trenches and there is a huge cost in going cheap with the O-line.
The Rams also showed us the importance of the running game and a balanced offense. We’ll never get to the Super Bowl on a Russell Wilson dominated team. The good news from have our drawers dropped and fannies paddled pink is our weakness were exposed, and we will be drafting in top 20. On to 2018 and the Combine.
Rams last offseason was the blue print on how to fix a team quick
-Hire young innovative offensive coach
-Do whatever nessecary to fix area of greatest need OL.
-Add talent around your franchise QB
-Draft character first and identify players who fit your scheme and culture
We have a franchise QB that is the Holy Grail in the NFL the rest can be fixed!
Amen, Trevor.
I’ll disagree on character. tom russell drafted almost exclusively character almost above anything else and it blew up in his face. that said malik, malik, malik…..
* also add legendary defensive coach (Wade Philips)
The Rams have had a ton of first round draft picks that are finally playing well together. That is why they’re finally having a successful season. This was not a quick off-season turnaround and not really a blueprint at all for what the Hawks should do. I don’t know what the answer is, but I know I don’t want to endure what the Rams have endured over the last decade in order to be good again.
Defiantly think it’s time for a soft rebuild at this point. This team is becoming a complete joke.
What moves can the Hawks make to require some draft capital this offseason?
Pick in the top 20 and trade back a couple times. Trade Bennett, Wright and maybe Sherman (all would be 3-5th round picks but free up substantial cap space)
Trade back twice can get us some good picks.
I think if you can get a 3rd for Sherm a 4th or 5th for Bennett and a 5th for Wright or Kam + cap savings I make those moves in a second if this team decides to go the rebuild route.
I would like to think Sherm, Kam and Wright would be great mentors as they transition to a younger D but I think the draft capital and cap space might be more valuable if they want to rebuild quick.
Kam might not even play again I doubt you can trade him Bennett and sherm probably have a little more value then you say K.J. probably not much value because not even all teams use LBs like him.
Sherm won’t have much value coming off his injury. He’s much more likely to be a cap casualty ($11M cap savings). Kam isn’t going anywhere due to his injury and his contract.
An other flat and unemotional first half. And what were PC,s inspiring words, as reported, ” play good football and what ever happens, happens| WOW. That is exactly how the Hawks have played most games this year. Whatever happens, happens. That is PC”s laid back attitude seeping into the heart of this team. It is time for a complete overhaul of the coaching staff. Younger and more innovative blood is needed. I for one, was glad to hear some of the fans booing, although not as many as their should have been. I am from the east coast where Giant and Philly fans have no quams about voicing their displeasure with a terrible half of foot ball. Fans have that right as they are the one’s paying the salaries.
At this point I hope we lose out and get a top 20 draft pick. We’re going to have to trade down a couple times and that starting point will get all of our day 2 picks back and then some. Going to need a lot of day 2 picks after what I suggest.
Avril retires or is released
Bennett is traded (probably for a 4th or 5th)
Lane is cut or traded for a 7th
KJ is traded for a 4th or 5th
Id say trade Kam but his new salary and injury situation makes that null and void
Re-sign Graham but not more than $7M apy
Let Preach walk
Re-sign S. Richardson if price is reasonable.
Extend Clark.
Let Lockett play out his contract. Very disappointing this year
Re-sign Willson if its $3M or so
New coaching staff.
No worries there, Drew. 12 teams make the playoffs. If we’re not one of them, our worst possible draft position is 20.
HELL no to resigning Graham. Letting him walk should be one of the FIRST moves of the off-season. It was a mistake bringing him here and it will be an even bigger mistake in trying to re-sign him. And I don’t care what Wilson has to say about it.
Would love it if we could get anything in return for Lane.
Not ready to loose KJ unless we can get a 3rd for him, which we wont, the guy is a tackling machine
Would rather trade Avril for something unless he retires, but again probably wont get much
Lets just say we get all those picks you suggest, what do we do with them, we already got a lot of picks in the later rounds. Do we overpay to move up into the 2nd and 3rd because teams will know we want to? What do we do?
Well…. this all makes for an interesting SeahawksDraftblog.com this off-season. Congrats to Rob for being in the right place at the right time.
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I’ll be the 1st to say it FIRE JOHN SCHNEIDER…we are kind of screwed in the next 2 drafts and the cupboard of good young talent is pretty bare… havent had a good draft in 5 years and nothing in free agency in years! How long do you let a guy live off his past job performance?
That’s just dumb.
Plenty of good draft picks, trades signing, extensions have been made. He acquired the talent needed to win this year. He players/coaches have blown it. The talent is there. The talent has beaten the top two teams in DVOA this year (Rams, Eagles)
Fire him? Crazy talk.
But if you want him gone then trade him for draft capital. There would be serious takers for that kind of talent. If you can do it with a coach you should be able to do it with a GM.
.
Signing guys to extensions before their contracts expire is the most basic easiest function of his job…JS has been a dud the last 5 years…the previous years were alltime great but someones head should roll and it should be the guy who let this team slip.
Nobody is trading for JS, that’s CRAZY..
We’re only down 1 pick in the 2019 draft and will have added comps to it.
What youre seeing from JS is the result of hitting historically in the 2010-2013 and a few great free agent additions during that time and having to pay all the super stars he brought in. I think this years draft has a 2010 draft feel to it, minus McDowell. Its the impacts of the salary cap and drafting late every year.
Nowadays teams fire the coach and GM and just start fresh…this every game is a championship game garbage is getting old…time for change..Seattle is stale…
Yes those teams are the Browns they are always fresh because they have a new. Coach and corordinators every year we should be more like the browns
Teams that fire the coach and GM need better people at both positions. They usually hire the new GM to find the coach. The Hawks have one of the best GMs in the game. Keep him and let him find the next coach, someone he can work with.
It’s not time to rip everything to the studs. We still have players who can play and Schniedier is still a great GM. This ain’t multiple years of no playoffs, a losing record, and total incompetence. C’mon man!
This. So much this. One of the great predictors of success in sports is continuity and stability.
That said, I think the Hawks have got a bit insular and complacent. Kept too many of their guys, brought in too many of Pete’s USC buddies… I really don’t like that two of his sons are coaches, that’s a rotten way to run an organisation. They need some fresh eyes on the program, someone who can shake them up a bit and push them, but a complete teardown because of one season is all kinds of Browns-y.
Scot McCloughan is responsible for our SB win, not JS or PC.
Behave yourself
At least the OL could be pretty decent to start the year next year imo.
Rees can play LG, keep everyone else where they are. Brown has still barely practiced with this team.
Low draft capital hurts but they will probably pick in the teens (They ain’t making the playoffs) so they can trade down and still pick in the first
Id rather put Fant at LG. Im pretty much done with Rees being anything more than a backup at this poi t
+1
Put Ifedi at RG where he played before. I just don’t think he has enough on the ball to play tackle. Let Fant play RT.
I’d put Ifedi at LG and let Fant play RT.
I’m fine with any of those options, let the guys battle it out and see what happens. Regardless the line was dumpster fire, Brown a was huge add, Britt is a rock, Pocic will be the second year jump player, and Fant comes back. OL is in waaay better shape than it has been in years. Ifedi has to get over the penalty problems obviously but that seems doable.
it’s a lot harder to flip flop players hand work, foot work etc. than saying it.
Fix to OL
Step #1 New HC, OC, OL Coach
Step #2 OL Coach installs power Man scheme
Step #3 Duane Brown 2 Yr extension
Step #4 Draft Price in Rd #1 or Hernandez in Rd#2-3 after a trade back to conpete at LG / RG
Step #5 Get Pocic in a weight room to build fuctional base strength to play Guard in NFL
Step #6 Sign DJ Fluker to compete at LG or RG
Step #7 Get Fant healthy and train him as a swing OT and eventual replacement to Brown
Step #8 pick an OL before pre season games start and let them gel
Ideal 2018 OL
LT Brown / Fant
LG Fluker / Rees
C Britt / Pocic
RG Price / Roosg
RT Ifedi / Fant
The left side would be experienced and enormous with Brown and Fluker to run behind. The right side would have two young 1st rounders whom could dominate once they gel.
This OL should help the run game and protect Russ while they rebuild the D.
Interesting tweet from BWagz after Earls comment about Wagz playing today.
“E keep my name out yo mouth. Stop being jealous of other people success. I still hope you keep balling bro”
Ugh. Bit too honest from Earl there. Hopefully things don’t spill out of control.
I think Earls been very average this year. Tons of misreads and missed tackles. BWagz was gutting it out because the Division was still on the line. No reason for Earls comments
Didn’t see it. What did Thomas say.
He said that BWagz shouldn’t have played and even though he played he should have taken himself out earlier because he wasn’t his usual Wagz
He is probably right. Even though you shouldn’t say it.
Look, Earl has never been a good tackler. Ever. It’s the worst part of his game by a country mile. The misreads point is interesting, he was saying last year that it’s actually Kam who calls out a lot of the plays and gets everyone lined up – do you think he’s been worse since Kam’s injury or?
I actually think he’s right about Wagner, he shouldn’t have played. You don’t say it to the media though.
I think it’s been all year long. He’s been slow to diagnose and out of position or help
was at the game. Wagner looked pathetic out there. Felt right off the bat it was a bad coaching decision to play him. Dude next to me was like “Is that actually Wagner?”. He was toast. Earl was right. Probably said it because Wagner threw a fit about playing. Just a theory but…these outbursts usually have a back story and I’d bet that is it.
I feel for Coach Pete-no doubt some serious soul-searching and long looks into the bathroom mirror. Thêrell be a lot of folks needing to be talked down from the ledge in the rainy city after this one. Its my saving grace that you (Rob and the usual suspect hêre at S.D.B.) have helped me to see that in dark times, the off-season can only become that much more intriguing. Pure potential as a counterbalance to (ultimately inevitable) decline! Thanks guys! Keep the faith. High times, or low-12s for life!
And Pete Carroll
Let’s remember this is only one loss, we are asti g like the world is ending g. Maybe we are a little spoiled with all the sucess the Seahawks have had. It happens to every team at some point. There will be better days.
One billion percent. We’re becoming like Pats fans. Anything less than perfection and the knives come out.
This was a really rough loss though, if it doesn’t seriously rattle people in the building I’m not sure what will.
I would argue this has been a whole season of undisciplined play with a team that has been poorly prepared and outcoached week in and week out. Saved only by superior talent at times.
Can’t disagree with that.
PC / JS built an SB team in 3 years with a lot less then they have now so I still have hope 🙂
Amen!!!
it was two rough losses in a row where the team was severely outplayed. Never seen that in the PC era.
Not time to panic, but time to step back and make something more than superficial changes.
Defense needs youth and more speed, offense needs power on o line and at tight end, and a big receiver.
Some tinkering around is not enough. But they have limited draft capital this year and limited cap space.
It may require another step back next year in order to go forward the year after.
I for one would like to see Rex Ryan be dcordinator and provide a defensive game plan for each week we play a team. Not a scheme we play against every team. On offense Norv Turner would give us many ways to get jimmy graham the ball other than the red zone only. Pete Carroll can coach team but he must be flexible with these moves. The rams are better. The 49ers will be alot better next year and cardinals who knows which direction they go next year. If u want a new coach with those coordinators then David Shaw from Stanford could be a good replacement. But I agree with most posts that coordinators must go next year.
if you think the hawks are unprepared and undisciplined now, wait till Rex takes over.
Now he has had some great games calling on D, but very inconsistent and not a great coach. Big mouth, but results don’t match.
Also Rex Ryan coaches a 3-4 so we need lots of new players
“Big mouth, but results don’t match.”
So he’s basically Cable
It would be interesting to review the commentary on this blog after the Richardson and Brown trades.. when you make that move and most likely miss the playoffs, it don’t look good.
I liked the Brown trade and still do. If Lane had not failed the physical it would have looked a lot better. My only problem with that deal is that it should have been done in the off season not half way through.
The commentary was simple — that both moves were aggressive and made sense.
That remains true even with Seattle struggling now.
I’ll not criticise the team for being aggressive to win a Championship and both players are clearly talented. It’s easy to sit here now and say we wished we had the picks.
+1
in hindsight, they are still not bad trades. If Sheldon leaves, he probably brings back a 3rd or 4th comp. And I think Brown can help stabilize the line with Britt for next 2 years. If the hawks would not have lost Sherm, Avril and Kam, and Bobby and KJ, the D would still be very good.
The Hawks asked about Brown in Preseason, Texans were not willing to trade him until they did.
Picks dont help you beat the Rams either…
I’ve spent a lot of time bitching about the offensive line. When Fant went down and his replacement couldn’t block, I was happy that they found Brown to step in. Up until today he has looked decent at the position.
I also thought that Richardson would be a good addition since they lost some defensive linemen. I still do but don’t think Seahawks should pay him more than the other veteran linemen. Which almost certainly means he will be on some other team next year.
At the time the trades were made, they made sense when your chasing for another superbowl. No one could predict all the injuries that happened afterwards.
+1
When the Hawks are winning thier open culture and social activism is celebrated but it will be interesting to see the response now that they are struggling.
I bet you will hear more fans saying they wish they would spend more time worrying about football.
I personally think the two are not related but it will be interesting to see.
Probably right but that pretty much everywhere when you have success you can do it your way, when you have failure that when everyone says you have to do it a certain way
Agree with a lot of what’s been said here. It’s a sad situation for a team that was so bursting with talent five years ago that the league was lining up to poach cuts from the 90-man. They’ve been extremely profligate with their resources — time, money, draft capital.
But, no do-overs and thank Richard Sherman we did at least get the one while the getting was good.
Narrowly with respect to this site’s mandate, I would submit that the idea of taking a first-round RB really cannot be entertained at this point. It’s glaringly obvious how much hollowing-out the roster’s talent base has suffered. Whatever occurs on the coaching/management side, they need reinforcements all over the place, and they need to build around their stud QB instead of a predetermined and increasingly passe ideological commitment to The Run. (… which basically cost them the Washington game flat out.)
Both of those priorities point heavily away from spending their scarce early draft capital on RB, the disposable pet of the NFL. Yes, Gurley is great. But what difference did Gurley make for them last year when it was Jeff Fisher and awful rookie Jared Goff? The Rams are better in 2017 for other reasons than Todd Gurley. If the Seahawks mean to be better in 2018, 2019, or 2020, it won’t be because they found their Marshawn Lynch II.
P.S. — I’m just dying for the tell-all memoirs from guys like Sherman at whatever time down the road. It’ll be fascinating to put together the inside-the-locker-room view of this team’s arc … seems like it’s got Greek tragedy potential.
The Rams are pretty much only better this year because Gurley is playing to his potential.
If we took him out of the game today, I think it looks much much different, as does their season.
Goff has thrown only one less pick to this point than last year.
Kenny don’t you think Gurley is playing to his potential because they have a better OL and play caller?
It was almost exactly a year ago that Todd Gurley got so frustrated with their latest turd that he called the Rams a “middle school offense”…
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000755710/article/todd-gurley-rams-offense-looked-middle-school
Both Goff and Gurley have improved because of each other and an improved OL and coaching staff.
Adding a running game would be building around Russell he has always looked better with a rb to lean on he was great with lynch, he was great with Rawls when Rawls first took over for lynch. Add a running game other teams respect and Russell will be even better. Right now Russell is trying to do way to much and you see it in his turnovers and spin moves and it makes our offense suck. Russell is Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers we don’t need to go get him the best WR/TE ever we need a decent line and running game and then a bunch of quick smaller receivers like Doug and then one bigger bodied typ. Then I say we put our resources into the defense. Running the ball and defense with Russ managing the show and winning when the game on the line is still our best formula, it’s just we actually have to get there we never had a running game and our defense is on IR
I think it is pretty clear after today’s game that if the Hawks want to get thier Edge back as a physically and mentally tough team that Graham, Joeckel, Lacy should be let walk.
I think you have a good point. I would let JG go for that reason. He seems to pout and give up too easily. You need players that refuse to lose.
Joeckel just gets beat too much to pay him what he is getting. Get someone younger and stronger. The teams needs a bully on the oline. Lacy is 100% gone, he looks so slow.
I have never been on the get rid of Bevel and Cable train, but watching the difference in the Rams from last year to this year makes you have to consider it. Change it up and also let the players know everyone is accountable.
Since we are all in over reaction mode if Atlanta or NO or Jacksonville calls JS and says we will give you a 1st round pick this year for Earl do you make that trade?
Kam comes back to play SS, Mcdougald FS and Hill, Thompson backups. Look for a Safety in this or next years drafts.
I don’t think I would do it but if you are planning to rebuild the D I might.
I would. I would be ok with trading anyone but Wilson. Maybe Bobby too. Those two are your staples and still young. Let all FA go. Get a 3rd for Bennett and Brown and a 2nd for Sherman. Get a 3rd and 4th next year for comps. Go Fant/Pocic/Britt/Ifedi/open for OL. Get an OT/RB/WR in the draft. New kicker, new punter.
And 3 new coordinators.
Another year of a little pain, then back on the horse with the Magic Man RW
For me no, we have seen what happens to the pass defense and he is still only 28.
Absolutely not, you will not replace Earl so easily, and to get rid of Brown I cant even entertain that idea, especially for a third. That literally makes no sense. Why trade a quality starting left tackle in the league for a third round pick? There is no sense to that idea. Especially considering how hard good left tackles are to find. No Brown must be extended and we should use him until he has nothing to give,hopefully that wont be next year, but we have to take that chance.
No one will offer a second for Sherm coming off a ruptured achilles. No one offered that much when he was healthy this off season and asking to be traded. Bennett is 32. You’d be lucky to get a 5th.
Sold. All his offsides and ridiculous antics, let JS get another KC in the 5th.
Aaron Donald is ridiculously good! Wow
I don’t think the owner will react to this the way the fans are. We have enjoyed a lot of fun Seahawk football the past 8 years, and I believe we’ll enjoy more with many of the same faces in place. Some changes will take place, but I think a healthy offensive line that has has time together, and is improving, and a young, durable, dynamic running back would go a long ways to making this a playoff team. I still trust Pete and John.
I still believe in John and Pete too. Don’t know why people are so quick to throw them under the bus. They for sure have a lot of self-reflection to do in the offseason, but canning them seems like such a spoiled reactionary move that’ll hurt us long term.
Wasn’t this blog just comparing us to the Steelers? I’ll use that comparison again and say that Tomlin’s had much worse seasons than this and now they’re back on the upswing. Sean Payton’s also had his share of bad seasons and now the Saints are top dogs again. Pete and John have never given up on this team and I’m sad that fans are so quick to give up on them.
I don’t think anyone is giving up. At least for me, the same problems have been there for years now and because the Hawks have one, it gets pushed aside. Rob has always defended TC, DB, etc… because you make excuses when they win. The offense is still top 10, yada yada yada. But the same problems have been hurting this team for years.
Slow starts
Bad Oline
Penalties
Bad redzone (corrected this year)
It’s time to make some changes. Fire some coaches, move on from some high priced veterans and retool with RW and the offense as the focal point. Get him some OL help, a RB and a big WR and let him loose.
You and I must hang around in different parts of the interwebs cause I see an awful lot of advocates of a scorched earth policy tonight. Seeing a lot of ‘Fire everyone but RW and some key players and Harbaugh/Saban/Patricia will magically give us rings.’
Some changes should definitely be made I’m not disagreeing with that, but let’s not toss the baby with the salty bath water here.
Not a fan of Cam Newton but this is hilarious!
http://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/status/942579192591540224
I think PC has to be shown the door (gracefully if possible). Not just the inconsistency, but the lack of discipline and “in-fighting” is really taking a toll, and it isn’t getting better. That’s all on PC. Who do you replace him with? No idea, but I’d take a change in identity that would take a season or two to start rolling than sticking with the same system that is starting to stagnate and regress the team. The identity has to move from defense to offense. Wilson can be so great, but I feel he’s being too limited in the PC system. The whole coaching staff needs a shakeup sooner than later.
JS is still valuable, but for how long?
Key pieces to build around: Wilson, ADB, D. Brown, Britt, Pocic, Graham (franchise tag or bust), Vannett and Carson on offense; B-Wagz, ET, Griffin, Clark, N. Jones, Reed and maybe McDowell (if he can keep his head out of his ass) on defense. ST also needs renovating. Walsh, out. Ryan, out (sorry bud). Ott, is fine.
Draft: RB, SS, OL, WR/TE, LB. Unless there is a pick to good to be true sitting at ~#20, then they need to trade back and get more picks.
Trade as many guys as possible. Sherman can probably pick up a high-ish pick. Trade Bennett; the guy has become a drama magnet and has lost a lot of is ability. KJ is still valuable to the team, but he may also pick up some much needed draft capital. Please, Kam and Cliff; retire.
Most of the discipline issues seem to be coming from the defense. Get younger blood in there. Get some guys who are hungry. The offense is so close to being really good. It’s missing a FULLY solid OL (obviously), an every down RB (who doesn’t get injured), and maybe one or two young, quality TE/WR hybrid OW types to keep other teams guessing and stretch the field.
Since the beginning of the season Iv’e been pretty outspoken about this team needing fundamental changes in the off-season, but this game sealed the deal. Wilson has been the only person keeping the ship afloat. I just hope Paul can lose the nostalgia glasses and bring the inevitable hammer down to shake stuff up. We all love PC, but this is it. His press conference, while truthful, had the same RA! RA! attitude that every other one of his press conferences has. He’s not gonna change. Wilson is the only one keeping the championship window open; someone help him out!!! Go Hawks!!!
I’ve been contemplating for a few weeks. Pete leaves elevate Schnieds to President and bring in Mcloughan to be EVP and GM.
I’d be fine with that.
Key offense:
Wilson/ADB/Britt/Pocic (let Brown (old, replace with Fant) and Graham (not all around TE, moody) go)
Key defense:
Agreed, would be ok with no ET too.
Key ST:
Agreed, both out
End of an era. Period.
You keep your core of Russ, Wagner; MAYBE Earl and the rest you blow up especially with the lacking draft capital and holes this team has. Earl has the most value on this team and while he could stay through a rebuild why would he? He’s at the tail-end of his prime and I know Earl wants to compete for championships still. That’s not going to be here in Seattle for the next two/three seasons.
1. Under NO circumstances do you sign back Jimmy Graham – he’s SOFT and it was a mistake to trade for him a few years back. Heignsight is 20-20 but you correct that mistake this off-season by watching him walk. Nothing about Graham screams toughness or girt… in reality, he possesses none of the qualities and when rebuilding the players and their mentalities are KEY.
2. Move on from Cabel, Bevell, and Richard. Now, this is might be highly unlikely but the coaching staff is in dire need of fresh blood and voices. However, this won’t happen because Pete Carrol is one of the most loyal coaches in the nation/NFL and it’s the EXACT reason why his program at USC began deteriorating.
3. I’m indifferent on re-signing Richardson. To me, Naz Jones looked every bit as good and explosive this season as Ricardson who had a hard time creating ANY pressure from the inside. If we re-sign him at a reasonable price, fine. But if not let him walk and get the pick.
4. Avril needs to either retire or be released. Bennett either needs to take a pay cut or needs to be traded. Sherman is a 29-year-old cornerback coming off the worst injury in sports with an achilles rupture. Would I love to see him come back and be the same player (athletically) as he was before? Sure. Do I think that happens? Nope. So someone – who is smarter than me – needs to look at his current contract and ask themselves if it’s a smart investment for the Seahawks moving forward. If the question is no then Sherman needs to walk.
5. Kam is done. Even if Kam comes back next year – which would be idiotic with a spinal/neck injury – he will NEVER be the same player/enforcer that he once was. His salary doesn’t make sense for the Seahawks either which is the reason why I think he needs to RETIRE and if not, released.
6. Try to find draft capital. You do that by either trading back this year OR trading pieces on this current roster – which I would argue is KJ or Earl. There are too many holes on this roster to keep guys around that won’t be here for the next chapter and era.
7. The future of Pete Carroll? Nothing I said above Pete Carroll will pull the trigger by doing. PC is TOO connected to the coaches/players on this team… which is commendable, but it’s not something that is OKAY for the future of the Seattle Seahawks. Tough decisions that I don’t think he’s capable or willing to make are needed to FIX this team… from the top to the bottom.
It’s time to compete at all levels of this franchise. Keeping THIS coaching staff intact isn’t doing that. The holes on this team can’t be masked or hidden with a few stop-gap players. They can’t be fixed by having a decent/mediocre draft this off-season. THAT era is OVER. It’s time to MOVE ON and start the rebuilding process. And Paul Allen needs to sit down with a 66 – soon to be 67-year-old – Pete Carroll and ask if he’s mentally and physically up to getting that done. If not, Pete needs to walk away from the game.
Amen. Did you steal my every thought?
I have said it for a year now, PC seems tired. I almost thought he would think about UCLA and get back to SoCal.
3. Richardson put really nice heat on Goff early in the game. I’ve seen him get pressure in pretty much all the games. That said, I like the upside enough from Naz, I don’t feel the need for Seattle to sign Sheldon for $14 Mill a year. Would like to see more of that $ used on the offense.
4. I think Avril is probably done in Seattle one way of the other. I think Sherman comes back for another season.
6. Absolutely no way am I trading Earl unless I am given a ridiculous amount of draft capital, and I don’t see any team doing that, either.
7. IMO, firing Pete Carroll could very easily become a massive mistake. I don’t see Paul Allen doing that, especially in a season where they might miss narrowly miss the playoffs for the first time in five years.
I don’t think the fire all he coordinators school of thought is as terrible as Rob thinks. I do get his perspective, this starts at the top. However, there aren’t many good head NFL coaches in existence. If you think there is one out there that can improve your team, then roll the dice. But if you just want to fire the coach for the sake of change, who knows what you’re going to get.
A house cleaning of some players and coordinators could be somewhat of fresher start. Pete has earned the chance to evolve and change things up, and he works well with the GM.
All that said the epic failure of this season falls onto Pete first and foremost. There is no focus or discipline with this team. Again, I just don’t know if you are going to get a better coach.
possible 2018, not saying it will happen, but not impossible
Kam comes back, Sherm comes back, Malik can play and realizes how quick he can lose it and plays his a** off. Avril retires, Sheldon leaves for mo money, but Jones, Reed, Mailk and Jordan all step up. Bennett plays only 55% of the snaps and gets his mojo back. A new rookie CB and speedy LB get playing time and look like future stars
Ifedi grows up, Brown helps him grow from a boy to a man. Pocic gains 10-15 pounds and solidifies RG. One of Roos, Ress or Fant steps up at LG. The oline becomes “average”.
Prich leaves, but Darboh steps up and gives them a big receiver who helps out with blocking. Procise also plays WR and some 3rd down RB and plays 14 games.
Carson comes back and a rookie competes with him for playing time.
Jimmy G leaves, but Vannett steps up and proves to be a much better blocker and helps the run game. Swoopes plays and shows promise.
Hawks have minimal injuries, Rams take a step back, Cards fade and 49’rs take a step forward, but Hawks get the division again.
can the Hawks have better luck with injuries next year? Can the coaching staff take control and adjust their game plans better? Can the hawks offense start the year better and especially in the 1st quarter? Can the defense start playing faster again and swarming teams. Does the pass rush come back?
there is also another possibility where things get worse, but I am going for glass half full at the moment
I couldn’t have said it better myself. That post I agree with everything you said, love it. You can trim a little fat with Avril and Richardson ( even though he is new here). Then you have decision next year about KJ, Sherman, Kam, and Bennett. I would say bye to Bennett and Kam. If we draft that speedy LB maybe he takes over for KJ then that leaves Sherman. If he plays great next year maybe we can resign him.
Pretty realistic and makes sense.
I should have added the hawks get new punter and kicker, along with drafting someone who can return kicks and they improve to a top 10 kicking game. I think we have to look at kicking along with the running game as the 2 major weaknesses to fix
Kam is done.
Sherm is done.
Malik is a headcase.
Ifedi is a BUST.
Pocic has good ability but has to get stronger.
Darboh is a special teams player at best.
Out of curiousity, where do you come to the conclusion Darboh is a ST at best? The guy has received little/no playing time. The jump from collegiate WR to NFL WR is one of the most difficult to make. Can you really write the guy off after only playing a handful of snaps on the offense? You
Kam and Sherm back? Why? So we can imagine what they once we’re and suffer another season like this one? Make the hard cuts now and start building for the future rather than extending a mediocre era of Seahawks football until the people we think are something to build on now also get old.
Kam is back because of his contract, cannot get rid of him, so hopefully he is able to play. He and Sherm will turn 30, that is not ancient. and both are extremely smart players and it makes sense to let them both play next year.
The 49ers are probably going to take a huge step forward next year. They have high(ish) draft picks and a ridiculous amount of money for free agents. It just depends on how they allocate resources for Jimmy g.
Mostly because I’m a homer but I think the rams are a bit of a mirage. A crummy Seattle team beat them in their house and yesterday a totally depleted Seattle team showed up where every bounce literally, Frank Clark’s strip sack included, went the Rams way.
Current draft order for the Seahawks is #19. Will be #18 if the Cowboys win.
If we are lucky enough to make the playoffs as the #6 seed at 10-6 are likely opponent would be the Rams.
Sadly, at this point, I’m rooting for the Hawks to lose out. I think this coaching staff is finished and I’d rather not see them “barely miss the playoffs”. We need draft capital, not moral victories.
I’ve been a fan of the Seahawks since 1977 when I was 11 years old. So please no lectures about my lack of loyalty.
Finally, remember that we have one of the richest owners in the league. There is no salary cap on coaches. We can go out and hire the best staff money can buy. It’s an advantage we MUST take advantage of.
Starting line up for 2018?
QB…Wilson
RB…Draft Pick
WR…Baldwin-Lockette-Darboh
TE…Willson
OL…Brown-Odihambo-Britt-Pocic-Ifedi?
Brown-Ifedi-Britt-Pocic-Fant?
New OC
DL…Bennett-Reed-Jones-Clark
LB…Wagner-Wright
Safeties…Thomas-Chancellor
CB…Sherman-Griffin-Coleman
What you guys think?
TE NV
OL Brown/Pocic/Britt/Ifedi/Fant
Safeties Thomas/McDougald
I think Fant stays on left side and Ifedi on the right, cannot change too much with young players. Better to let Fant try LG than RT, but that is just my guess. He and Rees can battle for LG and back up LT. Would think that Ifedi improves next year. He has talent, they will be reluctant to move or sit him, and a lot of his problems are in his head. Hopefully maturity solves that. He is not the first tackle to have problems first 2 years in the league.
I would hope that Vannett can overtake Willson at TE. They will need young DE, LB, and CB to replace Bennett, Sherm and KJ by 2019, hopefully some 2018 draft picks get some training next year
agree that Fant stays left and Ifedi stays right. Also he’s certainly not the first tackle to struggle in the beginning. Playing at A&M in a more or less spread offense didn’t do him any favors.
I’m pretty high on Vannett and could care less if Willson goes.
To me they have to put some emphasis on LB’s. That cliff from wright and wagz on down is too steep. And I’d like them to somehow fix their personnel with regards to any kind of nickel formation. This team has been getting killed on third and long this season.
I would love to see Chancellor able to play in 2018, but I have my doubts. I kinda think his playing days might be done, even if he doesn’t retire in 2018.
I like them drafting RB to be the guy.
I don’t think Bevel is the problem.
I think they like Fant on the left side, and Ifedi to continue growing on the right.
If they only re-sign Luke Willson, where is all the other FA $ going to?
Mc Dougal could be some of it with most of it spreading around to some RFA’s a Atyaba Ruin type d tackle etc…
Ah, I see.
I would be interested to look at the hit rate they had in the Drafts of 10,11,12,13 as opposed to 14,15,16. It seems like PCJS hasn’t been able to reload this roaster once the depth started to leave in FA. Losing guys like Bryant, Clemons, Smith, McDonald, Thurmond, Carpenter, Breno, Bruce, Golden etc, and then not drafting well is a double drag. They spent on the core group, and relied on the draft for depth. They didn’t draft well I’m the last three years based on what we have seen. Wasted picks really. I think Rob would agree.
The other problem is a result of the core guys getting paid and having their own agendas that weren’t solely dedicated to making and name for themselves on the field. The only core guy that we can really count on for consistency right now is Bobby. The rest are up and down and/or injured. The core group has not performed.
Anyway just my two cents. You can blame coaching, scheme all you want. Players play. And we either don’t have good enough players or the ones we have aren’t playing well. Those are the issues.
I have not lost faith in Pete, his system works, but as has been pointed out it needs competition to thrive and we have lost that. When we reward older core players with long extension at a price we really cant afford, that makes it hard. If we do go into rebuild mode, Carrol is the guy I want coaching it. He has proven he can do it successfully in the past, and he will be able to do it in the future if he wants to.
Sorry Rob but the coordinators absolutely have to go, there must be competition at all levels for the players to respond, Cable at the minimum is an absolute problem, and has been for years, his guys have not worked out, and he refuses to change his system. If he has been picking the guys he wants for the O-line then it is his system that has failed, or his ability to spot talent, in no way can we carry on with him and expect different results.
I’m neutral on Bevel he has up and down moments, whatever happens with him happens with him.
Richard has not shown me anything since becoming D coordinator. He should go as well.
If Pete stays he needs to make these decisions.
With our current cap problems and lack of quality draft picks we will not see a lot of turnover this off season. We will role out the core we got and hope for better results. There are no other options. This last draft was a pretty decent one so hopefully we can have another solid draft this off season and a spectacular one in 2019
For Christ’s sake guys. No, we don’t want to fire PC/JS. I think when we are fully healthy, we are still one of the most talented rosters in the NFL. Yes, retooling, yes, a “come-to-jesus” talk for the staff. Let’s look towards the Cowboys and to trying to lock up a 5/6 seed.
Let’s give Russ some help and add some quality depth and playmakers on D. This may not be our year but after listening to these guys on the airwaves, you can just feel that they’re not finished. These dogs have faced adversity before and I’ll bet they’re willing to rise to the challenge again.
Thank you, Nathan W.
They should be well rested after taking this game off.
fucking lol man
@Rowdy ouch hahahahah
Whose mans is this bruh
The Seattle Seahawks got blown out, steamed rolled, embarrassed, punked, flattened by the talented, deep, and HEALTHY Los Angeles Rams on their home turf, for the first time in the Pete Carroll era. They had done to them what they had done to the Broncos in that wondrous Super Bowl of lore.
So, 12s of SDB, questions for you all, and where the heck do we go from here?
1. Do we truly wish the Seahawks to just tank the season for a better pick, or do we see if they manage to pick themselves up off the Century Link turf, and still make it a season where they go 10-6 and maybe squeak into the playoffs?
2. If we don’t make the playoffs, should we cut bait with Pete Carroll, who had us in the the playoffs five years in a row, and two Super Bowls, 6 times in the playoffs in the last 7 seasons? Or, is that maybe a bit of an overreactive act that will have us say good bye to a very good head coach who still has the strong desire to coach, and replace him with someone who possibly won’t even come close to his level of success, and then after two or three seasons find us searching again, while Pete Carroll coaches winning football in some other city? Is that worth the risk?
3. Should we just say #$% it all, and blow the whole thing up? Maybe trade Russell Wilson to Cleveland for their pick, and draft Josh Rosen and then maybe with our native second first round pick draft his cross LA rival Ronald Jones? Build around two utterly unproven players, one of which has a little bit of a Jay Cutler style charm to him?
4. Should we cut Michael Bennett who has been battling through a painful foot injury all season that typically doesn’t heal anytime soon without rest?
5. Should we cut KJ Wright because he was concussed last week and could not play against these Rams? Is he now unreliable?
6. Should we just cut Richard Sherman because he will be one year older, even if he does look like will will come back fine from the achilles?
7. Or should we just give Pete Carroll a break, especially in a year in which his beloved defense became greatly depleted at the end, and the running back group he covets consisted of Spinal Tap drummers?
8. Should we just let Jimmy Graham, Sheldon Richardson, Bradley McDougald, Luke Joekel, Luke Willson all leave in free agency because we are officially rebuilding and we don’t need any of their contracts tying up valuable cap space that can go to other free agents instead from other teams? Does this even make a lick of sense?
9. Did anyone catch Luke Willson’s Q13 post game interview with Ian Furness? If you did, you caught something that was pretty bad ass, IMO, and may give you some legit hope for next week against the Cowoys. At the very least, you caught a glimpse of some genuine toughness and grit.
10. My Offseason Scenario Post Rams Debacle.
Don’t make major changes to the coaching staff.
Sign Bradley McDougald, Paul Richardson, Luke Joekel, and Luke WIllson. Possibly Austin Davis, as well.
Let Jimmy Graham and Sheldon Richardson walk, and recoup comp picks in 2019.
Add depth at DT with a released veteran that won’t cost any 2019 comp pick.
Keep Mike Bennett, and Richard Sherman for another season. Work extensions on Earl Thomas, Duane Brown, and Frank Clark.
Find a trade partner with a QB hungry team, and trade back to acquire a day two pick.
30: R1P30 RB
RONALD JONES II
USC
Seattle adds explosive dynamic runner to pair with the physical style of Chris Carson.
94: R3P30
LB RASHAAN EVANS
ALABAMA
Seattle adds youth at LB that can start at SAM, can be groomed to eventually replace KJ Wright, and backup Bobby.
122: R4P20
EDGE DUKE EJIOFOR
WAKE FOREST
Seattle adds depth at LDE with someone who could eventually replace Michael Bennett.
144: R5P5
LB CAMERON SMITH
USC
Seattle further adds depth LB with another player who could eventually start.
151: R5P12
TE ADAM BRENEMAN
MASSACHUSETTS
Seattle adds depth at TE
168: R5P29
DL B.J. HILL
NORTH CAROLINA STATE
Seattle adds depth at DT
229: R7P10
S TYREE ROBINSON
OREGON
Seattle adds depth at Safety
249: R7P30
OT COLE MADISON
WASHINGTON STATE
Seattle adds depth at OL
250: R7P31
WR D.J. CHARK
LSU
Seattle adds a RB that defenses need to account for. Seattle makes a late day two and mid round run on defensive players to better build up depth. Late round on players to add depth in areas that still might feel a bit thin.
No need for a total rebuild, but make a further commitment to getting younger on defense, while staying with more experience on the offensive. Keeping Joekel keeps cohesion on the OL. As bad as it looked against the Rams with seven sacks, Seattle got in the whole early with turnovers converted into points, and was likely forced out what it wanted to do. Bad day of RW to not play well, but the defense was hemorrhaging points. This same OL held up better in Jacksonville against the best DL in the league. Just further build around RW. Give him a run game that can be leaned on.
Now is not the time to panic, IMO. It’s totally fine for fans to do that, but I certainly hope Paul Allen isn’t. Seattle can still show something over the next two games. If they do, there’s reason to hope in 2018, and to not blow it all up.
Well something has to change. We have all witnessed the offensive issues which have spanned years of time. Seahawks can pick and train a defense, but they really haven’t been so hot building an offense.
Even an offense that from 2012 through 2015 was within the league leaders in explosive plays?
Can the change simply be adding to the personnel so that 83% of the offensive production doesn’t come from RW, that there is actually a running game that can be relied upon once again?
IMO, I don’t get the assaults on Bevel and Cable, or the growing assaults on Carroll when they haven’t had consistency at RB, and have had to rely so heavily on the pass game.
The McEvoy fumble, JG fumble that wasn’t a fumble, the RW negative 23 pass play fumble, and his other fumble were absolute killers in a critical game against an opponent team that was on fire. All pass plays. Plays that this is is reliant on to have any success. Those mishaps weren’t on the coaches.
Seattle needed to play near perfect football, football that they played just two games ago against the top NFC team in the Eagles.
IMO, it’s more a personnel issue than coaching.
A lot of it is probably personell but why is the team fooling around with a run game experiment when they say that the run game is central to their tenents of success.
of all running backs since Lynch was drafted to be in the top ten for rushing and receiving (26 backs) only 7 of them have not been in the first two rounds. and three of those seven have come in round 3. This notion that great backs are anywhere is actually false. Year to year there are players that crack the top 10 but 72% percent of players that finish top ten multiple years, which is what I think PC wants from a run game, are first and second rounders.
It is just not the offensive talent problems it is as much the lack of fire and emotion that we have seen in the past. Sleep walking thru the first half of games is on the coaching. Sorry!
I agree with your take. Thankfully we’re lucky that our owner is a smart man who knows how to run a long term plan.
I could be down with.most of that except Joeckel. To me that’s a waste of money. Would rather go in house or draft.
Keeping him makes no sense at all
To me is makes sense in terms of cohesion, and the fact Seattle is going to be hard pressed to find an answer at RB in the draft and OG with no R2 or R3 pick. If Seattle uses the R1 on OG, it probably isn’t going to trade back much, as there isn’t much in this draft. If Seattle trades back, it can probably stand a better chance to grab a good player at RB, but might be reaching for OL.
Also, if Joekel leaves, do you really trust Odhiambo or Jordan Roos to be the guy to fill that void, if they don’t go OL early? Does Seattle have a good track record of that?
IMO, Joekel hasn’t been terrible. The left side has played pretty well since he came back, and has played with Brown. Today, the whole team got steamed rolled. I wouldn’t put too much into that. Also, it may not be the worst thing for this team to experience.
I would argue Joeckel has been terrible and keeping a bad player for $7-10 mil for the sake of continuity makes no sense to me.
I don’t think Seattle keeps Joekel for anywhere near $10 mill, personally. Terrible seems pretty harsh. Terrible seems more appropriate to toss towards Odhiambo’s play at LT or Glowinski’s very brief stint at RG, but it’s all eye of the beholder.
Agreed on joekel. That rams is d is great. And they should be. They’ve had significantly better positioning for the draft than Seattle for about 5 years.
That’s one thing people seem to forget when Seattle faces Jax or the Rams. Those teams have been middling to terrible for years. That’s why you get fournette/gurley, etc.
I am with you on Joeckel. Hated the signing when it happened and still do.
Dump him. I liked the signing when we made it. Former #3 draft pick with something to prove. Maybe he didn’t get the coaching he needed and J-ville, and Cable could coach him up… Tom Cable has never coached anyone up in his entire tenure here. Either they’ve had technique when they got here, or if they didn’t, they didn’t really improve. I’m ready to move on from Joeckel and Cable too. Joeckel is a well greased turnstile against anyone with talent or strength.
When we lost lynch i was under the impression that russel wilson alone could carry the offense…i was wrong. He’s a very good qb…but he needs balance. So i stated the obvious…but i have not seen russel exploiting defenses with his mental acuity…most often it is with ridiculous athleticism. Is it possible to see mental acuity? How often does Russel throw to his 3rd option? Hardly ever…he usually throws it into double…sometimes triple coverage, or holds the ball. They need to dumb down the passing game…by that i mean cut the field in half. The franchise quarterback is a beautiful delusion…yet unrealisic. This is why keenum or goff will probably win the superbowl this year. Those teams make their qbs jobs very simple, and that is why they will have deep playoff runs this year.
Over his first three seasons with the team Schneider was a superlative GM. Since then, if you look at his draft picks (by AV or however you want to measure), trades, and roster construction, he’s been a real mixed bag, and the O-line they’ve trotted out there for the last three years has been a disaster. The 2015 team was still massively talented (and finished #1 in total DVOA) but for a half-season or so the O-line was terrible, especially at guard and center. Also, if you’re consistently drafting in the mid 20s or later you can’t afford to trade so many picks *and* keep whiffing in key areas with picks and FA signings.
The roster/cap space situation for 2018 might not be so dire–the projected NFL salary cap could increase by over $10 mil, Avril will likely retire (sad, but seems the best thing for his health), so that means at least $25 mil in cap space. Re-signing Duane Brown seems likely–with Fant possibly moving to right tackle (Ifedi should play guard), though who knows what that’ll cost. I’d prefer that Sherman return, but if he plays elsewhere next season that’s another $11 mil off the books.
Wanna do a complete rebuild? Start by trading Russ to the Browns for their first two 2018 draft picks (juuuust kidding)!
Can we also say that after those first three drafts most of the core positions were filled and in the following drafts, less positions were up for grabs, even depth wise?
Last two drafts I’ve been especially impressed by. I think Ifedi, Reed, Pocic, Jones, and Griffin all look like quality starters. Darboh, Carson, Hill, Vannett, and maybe even Odhiambo potential starters down he line.
If they can salvage anything out of McDowell and Prosise, there could be some serious talent there, as well.
Tough to see it under the circumstances of what happened today, but there are reasons why the future could be bright around the corner.
Remember how every Seahawks fan was bemoaning Britt as a huge bust until last year, when he finally turned the corner once he moved to center? Draft classes usually don’t start paying off until 2-3 years after. While I think certain picks should have gone to other players, I also think people are being a bit too hyperbolic about the strength of our more recent draft classes. Take 2017 for example. If Pocic, Griffin, Naz Jones, and Carson all end up being quality starters, then that’s one hell of a class right there.
Well put.
I like some of those picks quite a bit but Odhiambo to me is a wash. The interior of the line still isn’t dialed in but he still can’t make the lineup?
Carson has pretty great potential but even in college, he was a utility back so they are going to need to pair him with someone to do a RBBC.
I’m holding out slight hope for Odhiambo at LG if they move on from Joekel, but right now he’s looking like a wash.
I think something that is largely overlooked when people talk about a decline in draft “hits” by JS is simply the decline in talent 2013 – 2015 as opposed to 2010-2012 across the league. 2011 in particular was brimming with high level talent. And tbh all those drafts only had 2-3 major impact players anyway.
2017 was a strong class (I think, but its too early to say) and I think the Seahawks got more than a couple really good players (I think, but its too early to say). Malik is unfortunate but they swung for upside and missed (I think, but its too early to say)
PFF grades after the Rams debacle. Possible arguments for retaining Sheldon Richardson, Luke Willson, extending Duane Brown. Possible arguments for trading Russell Wilson and cutting Michael Bennett.
DI Sheldon Richardson, 83.7 overall grade
Not many Seahawks defenders came out of this game with credit but Richardson looked amped for this game from the get go. He was able to get into the backfield for three quick pressures, while being one defender who wasn’t pushed about the line of scrimmage in the run game. After a slow start Richardson has really started to show his talent the past six weeks in Seattle.
Edge Frank Clark, 79.0 overall grade
S Bradley McDougald, 77.6 overall grade
Edge Dion Jordan, 76.2 overall grade
T Duane Brown, 74.7 overall grade
TE LUKE WILLSON, 73.6 OVERALL GRADE
Willson had only one target but accounted for the Seahawks lone touchdown, a seam route between two Rams defenders. Willson has seen only 33.6 percent of the teams offensive snaps this season, which would be a career low for him. With only 146 passing yards, Russell Wilson struggled to get the ball to his favorite playmaker, as Doug Baldwin caught only one pass on four targets for six yards.
QB RUSSELL WILSON, 50.1 OVERALL GRADE
Not much went right for the Seahawks offense today, as they were over-matched in all facets by an impressive Rams defense. Wilson was sacked seven times and was under pressure on 16 of his 42 dropbacks, going 1-of-6 for negative yardage while also running three times. Wilson had a tough day, fumbling twice while only averaging 4.9 yards per attempt.
EDGE MICHAEL BENNETT, 39.8 OVERALL GRADE
For those who felt Bennett was fortunate to avoid suspension and play in this game, there was a sense of karmic retribution as the defensive end was largely invisible for his 52 snaps on the field. Just one tackle and one hurry, Bennett is enduring something of a dip in form, which means we’re not seeing the same guy who was taking over games earlier in the year. His pass-rushing output of one combined sack, hit or hurry was only the third time since the 2015 season he has failed to record at least two pressures in the same game.
Im glad you shared this C-Dog. Despite the sack numbers I actually think Sheldon has had a really good season and has been good value for the second round pick. I remember himmaking a pretty nasty spin move inside which forced an incompletion and a stop on their first drive (I can’t remember if it was that play or the the play after that actually forced the stop but good play nonetheless)
Im not sure I agree with people saying Naz has made him expendable this off-season, Naz has looked great but he’s not stayed healthy and is still a ways of reaching S.Richardson’s level.
Personally I really want to keep Sheldon, and i think we can get it done for 12m APY or less
I would love to see them keep Sheldon, as well. I think that the people who have been saying that he hasn’t been getting enough pressures haven’t been dialed in enough there. He has.
Trading Russell Wilson? Yeah, when he’s bad, he can look like Garo Yepremian. But he isn’t going anywhere unless we somehow draft the second coming of Tom Brady on day 3.
I waited a good long while before coming to this site… Oh boy where do we start. Anybody thinking that they are going to burn this thing down doesn’t know the Seahawks. Pete Carroll is one of the most loyal men out there. I don’t think we see a mass Exodus of veterans. Maybe a couple like Lane or Avril but I don’t think you see Kam Sherm and Bennett all go in the off-season. I don’t get how trading Sherman for a 3rd round pick. It is just ridiculous. Just because we draft well doesn’t mean you can replace a Hall of Famer so easily. His skill is not speed-based and he is a proven commodity in this league. If you trust the staff enough to train up a third-rounder, trust them to see if he can still play up to the standard. This off season is going to have to be taken on a case by case basis like this. It’s an off season of subtlety.
Sad to see the performance today. It is hard to be good in this league for a long period of time. We have been great. I said this before, it is easy to look us as the source of all our issues but we can’t ignore that the league is better. Teams that have been at the bottom or out of the playoffs have drafted and signed well. Rams, Eagles, Vikings, Saints have all had a down year or years recently. This allowed them to reload in the case of the Saints and Vikings. This could be our opportunity. If we get a pick in the high teens we could get a blue chipper for the first time in a long time. Most likely we trade back and can still pick in the late teens.
Again today sucks but the blog may be more interesting as more names may be possible.
First, let me say that I love what Pete Carrol has done for Seattle. Literally the best coach ever in regards to chasing down the thing that matters most, the Superbowl. That said I’ve got some sobering facts to present my case on why it is time to consider moving on/hoping he retires.
Since the start of Free agency some 25 years ago only 4 coaches have one more than one Superbowl of which Belichick, of course, winning five and worse yet only two coaches have won the Superbowl in non-consecutive years: Coughlin with the Giants and Belichick.
Moving from the difficulty of winning multiple Superbowls of which your odds are actually better winning back to back than doing what Coughlin did having a multi-season drought before a second win, is that of all the coaches the Average time that it took to win that first Superbowl before chasing ghosts of a second is a short 3.4 years. With Coach Cower taking 12 years to win his first one. Carrol has already done it. In that time frame.
However, John Schneider may not be “the” problem. The Steelers, Ravens, Patriots, and (I’m stretching here but its the same family tree: Ron wolf to Ted Thompson) the Packers have all been able to return to the Superbowl with the same(ish) front office but a different head coach.
Three of the teams have been able to win with the same QB between appearances or wins: The Steelers, the giants, and the Patriots.
Let me add defense DOES win championships. Of the 25 Champs charted only 5 were not top 10 defenses. Of the 20 remaining teams 14 were not just top ten but top 5. And of all the Superbowl winners 33% of the teams had the number one defense. Something to consider for the draft if Seattle wants to get back to being successful.
We don’t need full rebuild in RW prime time. We just need some young blood, we need more luck with injury and we need positive atmosphere among our key players.
Stop crying. You are the fans one of the best teams in this sport. There is no reason for hysteria. We have chanses to win SB next year. And the year after that. And in 2020. Because we have JS, RW, Wag, ET ect.
If you think that this is the end of the world then read this. I am a huge fan of Red Star football (soccer) club. We were champions of Europe 1991. And after that we are nowhere close to that. We are not even in the 200 best clubs in Europe, and this year was the first after 25 years that we will compete in europa league on spring. And we never enter the uefa champion league. Never.
So you need to understand that it is a privilege to be a fan of a team that is one of the best In this sport. Just enjoy and belive. We will be a SB champion again. Soon! Go HAWKS.
+1
“We don’t need full rebuild in RW prime time. We just need some young blood, we need more luck with injury and we need positive atmosphere among our key players.”
millhouse-s, the above is a lot of work, tantamount to a full rebuild. Because the problem is top down. Pete all the way down. Coaching. Issues with ‘positive atmosphere among key players” is coaching. Playcalling is coaching. Personnel is coaching+Schneider.
What happened to the defense today? A coaching problem. Special teams? Coaching problem etc.
RW needs a new offensive braintrust that finally ends the bad habits, ends the need for desperate athleticism to win games. His prime has been frankly wasted, career shortened, by what he’s been doing.
We need a New Orleans type draft and nail the first 4 picks.
Marshon Lattimore – Stud
Ryan Ramczyk – Looks like a 10 year starter
Marcus Williams – Looks like a 10 year starter
Alvin Kamara – Stud
Pete Carroll needs to turn the offense over to his OC, whether it’s Bevell or other. Too much talent on the offense to look so utterly lost, confused, undisciplined, unready, unable to execute. Total shit show and it’s getting worse.
3 under an umbrella and somebody’s getting wet.
The offense is Bevell and Cable. Everything today, everything in previous seasons, it’s on them.
Sigh.
Unfortunately we have to stop and consider not only how poorly the Hawks were today, but how outstanding the Rams have become. They now have that look. A young team heading to the top, completely balling out. It’s what happens when you lose enough to compile talent,and start from the ground up with new coaching. The Hawks have been there. Today, the Hawks were the old (old ideas, tired habits, team) on the downside.
It does not make me happy to look back at the 2015 draft. Gurley is all-world, I suspected he would be. Anyone who doubted his value is eating it now. I have never been a fan of the Clark/Lockett deals, never will be, for many reasons. Those, and many other moves (or lack of) have contributed to today.
Which is why we shut them down earlier this season on their home turf??
Come on, man. I agree they are looking good, but if we are as healthy as them (only OL in the entire league to play together every game this season, for example) we can play with them any day.
I agree we need to make some adjustments and changes, but this is not as bad as some fans make it out to be.
Today felt like being on the other side of SuperBowl 48. After that debacle, the Broncos restocked their defense with a combination of shrewd FA moves (Talib, Ward, Sanders, Ware) and drafting (Harris, Roby, Trevethan, Malik Jackson) and won the super bowl two years later. I believe the Hawks need to follow that blueprint to turn this ship around. However, unless they can get rid of the current contracts, there is nothing they can do.
Which brings me to… when is it a good time to start a rebuild? As someone mentioned above, we can easily turn into 2012-16 Saints where we mortgage our future via trades/FA hoping we are one player away from making a run. So, with so few draft picks in 2018,
1) do we try to be aggressive and try to make one final run in ’18?
2) do we begin to reload the roster and plan for ’19 or ’20?
Most of their defensive contracts are structured to be easily cut after ’18. Which makes me think we go with option 1.
Just Blow the Whole Darn Thing Up Scenario.
The fate was sealed with the infamous pass attempt during the end of that Super Bowl. The Team has just been stubbornly thinking it would rebound. They are not, and it’s all slipping away.
Paul Allen fires Pete Carroll, and in keeping with his desire of bringing in a Big Name coach, Vulcan entices none other than John Gruden out of the ESPN booth, and into the new roll of Seahawks Head Coach. GM John Schneider is retained.
In a shocker, Gruden keeps Daryl Bevel as the OC, Tom Cable as the OL coach, and Kris Richard as the DC. He actually is a big fan of the coaching staff in Seattle.
In an even bigger shocker, however, the RW fan that he is, he gives the green light for John Schneider to trade RW to the Cleveland Browns for the top overall pick, plus their second round pick, and third round pick.
With the salary freed up, the sign Sheldon Richardson to a $14 million dollar a year deal. They also sign Bradley McDougald, Luke Willson and Paul Richardson. That pretty much eats up the cap.
With the first overall pick in the 2018 NFL draft, the Seattle Seahawks trade back with the NY Jets to acquire their 2018 first round pick, 2018 second round pick, and 2019 first round pick.
The John Gruden Seahawks Draft
10: R1P10
QB BAKER MAYFIELD
OKLAHOMA
Good bye Mr Nice Guy. Hello Mr Brash
20: R1P20
LB ROQUON SMITH
GEORGIA
Bye Bye KJ. Hello Mr Smith
37: R2P5
RB RONALD JONES II
USC
Gruden favors a speed back over the Pete Carroll power backs, and John Schneider gets his Jamaal Charles
65: R3P1
TE MARK ANDREWS
OKLAHOMA
Mr Brash gets his own TE that he has chemistry with
122: R4P20
CB QUENTON MEEKS
STANFORD
Meeks might becomes the eventual Sherman replacement
144: R5P5
WR DARREN CARRINGTON II
UTAH
Gruden wants to add further speed to the WRs.
151: R5P12
EDGE CHAD THOMAS
MIAMI
A LDE to groom behind Mike B
168: R5P29
EDGE ADE ARUNA
TULANE
A raw athletic RDE to groom behind Clark
229: R7P10
DL RASHEEM GREEN
USC
More interior pass rush
249: R7P30
OT COLE MADISON
WASHINGTON STATE
OL Depth
250: R7P31
QB RILEY FERGUSON
MEMPHIS
Gruden needs another rookie QB to groom in case Mayfield proves too unruly.
Seattle starts out well in Seattle, and just keeps winning. Mayfield Is OROY. Wagner is DPOY.
Seattle makes a mini run into the playoffs, but runs into a buzz saw against the Pete Carroll coached Arizona Cardinals where Kirk Cousins throws 3 TD passes to Jimmy Graham, Cardinals advance to the Super Bowl, and Pete Carroll gets his revenge not only over the Seahawks but also the New England Patriots with a blowout win in which is defense sacks Tom Brady 4 times, and picks him off 3 times. Carroll credits a solid ground game by Johnson and efficient passing by Cousins as the reason it was easy on offense, and the Pass rush of 3 tech Vita Vea and LEO Chandler Jones making life terrible on Brady.
Seattle struggles to play 500 football the following year. Mayfield is exposed and a hot head, throws almost more INTs than TDS, and Doug Baldwin gives him a black eye. Gruden gets crusty with the local press, and complains to Paul Allen that he can’t work with John Schneider. Schneider leaves to GM in Green Bay. Scott McGloughin is hired as the GM, and fires John Gruden the following year for John Harbaugh.
Go Hawks.
“This is Bakers team now” has a way different feel than “This is Russ’ team now”
Doesn’t it?
Thanks for reminding the over-reactors that the grass is not always greener on the other side.
So for the three of you, Cdog, seamode, Kenny, I like all of your perspectives quite a bit. I see a lot of posters talking about just a few tweaks here, and improved overall health as being the things to reset the hawks in 2018 and beyond.
So to that:
What are the tweaks if that’s all it is? Do you think it’s coaching change(s)? I’m not an off with anyone’s head guy but is the defense regressing due to bad coaching ( leading the league in allowing first downs on third and long) or health, because I’m worried there’s a chance that Avril/Kam/and perhaps Sherman never play or in Sherman’s case takes most of the year to come back. Or is it simply depth?
For the offense: Does Cable for really go? Is the running game being horrible for 2-3 seasons a “Marshawn problem,” or at some point is it a “Cable/ the line actually sucks problem,” Because it seems after 2 seasons it really is one or both and it’s getting to the time where the QB doesn’t carry the running game.
Listen I’m not trying to be a crank you all are just great posters so I was wondering your thoughts. I’m not going to do a pissing contest with any fan about when they started their fandom but for me these last few seasons culminating with this season are starting to feel a heck of a lot like how fans (myself included) were after the 2005 superbowl loss that all we needed was just one more piece here or there and we’d be golden.
Thanks for the questions. I’m still trying to come up with my “Armchair GM” way forward for the Hawks. But I try to give it a couple days first to kind of lick my fandom’s emotional wounds, so to speak, after such a historically unprecedented Seahawks loss. (just a metaphor, I don’t take it that seriously, don’t worry 🙂 )
And I do it because I enjoy strategic thinking; it’s not like anything I post here actually affects the Seahawks anyway.
So first of all, I try to calm down and think. That’s why I get a bit worked up at others’ (not yours) off-with-their-heads, knee-jerk, ALL CAPS, reactions every time something doesn’t go absolutely perfectly for our team. Even when we win it happens… That’s also why I love this blog: there are a lot less of those here than elsewhere and a lot more guys (starting with Rob) with level-headed takes, willing to both listen and share many great ideas.
At the moment, my first consideration that just 2 weeks ago we were on top of the world, on the rise again, after squarely beating the best team in the NFL at the time. How do we go from that point to this in just 2 short weeks? That helps put this loss into perspective. Who says we can’t be back there in 2 more weeks? If the current team is capable of performing like that, are we really that bad after one ugly loss yesterday? Do we really need urgent, drastic change? I’m not ruling it out, but my first instict is that perhaps we don’t.
Secondly, after the magnitude of yesterday’s collapse, it does force you to go back to the level of principles. What got us to the top in the first place? Are we failing because said philosophy simply no longer works or because we have strayed away from it too much?
Thirdly, although I’m still mulling over these next ideas, there is abundant literature on the process of both organizational and personal change, some of which I happen to have read or know about. With the vast majority of them, particularly in the business world as companies try to make the jump from their first successful product to sustained greatness, it always starts with “get the right people on the bus”, then figure out exactly where you want to go and how you want to get there. The Seahawks are a great example of just that. PC+JS partnership and the people-centric way of going about things, maximizing each individual’s talent, not forcing them into a cookie cutter to be what they aren’t, etc.
I found it helpful to get a refresher on this by going over this article from last year:
“The story behind the Seahawks’ 13th man”
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000756365/article/the-story-behind-the-seahawks-13th-man
I think PC+JS is a great combo, the cornerstone of all that has been built, and rather than just tossing this to the curb, I think they sit down and do some soul searching to figure out a modified approach, and then whether each member of current coaching staff are still the right ones to continue on the jouney with them.
Then the same with the players. They built the culture by getting a certain type of person in each player, beyond just his skills on the field. Do they need to adjust what they look for in any way? (as they already have, for example, on OL) Which players, as talented as they may be, just do not fit this profile?
Change has to happen. The results are hard facts that demand it, but the interpretation of the true causes are what is up for discussion. At this point, more than “rebuild” or “reload” (i.e. the fear you mention of the post-2005 team) that some are proposing, and above and beyond what I would call mere “tweaks”, I’m preferring the word “adapt”. They need to look around the league and see what direction it is tending, what is working for the best teams. What can they learn from that to add into their own style and not get outdated? How can they also counter it and stay ahead of the curve, finding new market inefficiencies to exploit? They need to accept the fact that this is no longer 2014 and adapt.
What gives me hope is that I know they are not afraid to ask themselves these types of questions and challenge themselves in new ways. “Always compete” was born right there in the PC/JS relationship, long before it was ever applied down onto the practice field. And they have done it before, they figured it out, they made it to the top. That’s why I have little doubt they can learn to adjust and make it back again.
Thanks for engaging in this, peter.
As a long time True Blue fan since 1976, it is my very strong belief that stability means everything, and that begins with the HC and GM.
Seattle has enjoyed it’s best football in the 1980s under the tenure of Chuck Knox (who for those of us old enough to remember, his philosophy was run the ball, play strong defense, sound familiar?) and GM Mike McCormack, and then in this 17 year span of the 21st Century under the long tenures of head coaches Mike Holmgren and Pete Carroll. Things ended funky with Holmgren and management, but if you look at the fact that Mike was brought in initially as the HC and GM, that funky tension was probably inevitable once ownership stripped his GM title away after a few struggling seasons. The present day relationship between Pete Carroll and John Schneider has been critical to the success of this era of Seahawks football.
Seattle has played it’s worst football in the decade of the 1990s, when then owner Ken Behring replaced GM Mike McCormack with former Raiders HC Tom Flores, and after a couple seasons fired HC Chuck Knox, and replaced him with that same Tom Flores. Behring’s philosophy behind this action was essentially “Knox coaches not to lose, I want a HC that coaches to win.” Flores got rid of popular starting QB David Krieg, who didn’t fit his profile preference of a tall drop back passer, tried to replace high with first round stiff Dan McGuire, the team went 2-14 with a talented defense built by Knox, but nothing at QB, wasted another first round pick the following year on QB Rick Mire who was athletically talented and a departure from McGuire, but ultimately couldn’t read defenses and throw to his left once he was scouted out. Flores was fired, replaced by college football hotshot Dennis Erickson (who turned out to be a drunk), Behring tried to move the team to LA, Dennis coached three mediocre seasons, Paul Allen stepped in and saved the team, and the rest is history.
Personally, I am firmly in the Just a Few Tweaks Camp. I have been digging Rob’s Pittsburg Steelers comp for the 21st Century Seattle Seahawks owned by Paul Allen. I believe stability at the Head Coach position is vital for continual success. Look at those Steelers. In the last forty years or so they have had three head coaches; Chuck Knoll, Bill Cowher, and Mike Tomlin for long stretches. Is it just fluky that these coaches have won championships and, for the most part been in playoff contention annually more times than not?
The way I see it is that, like in life, @#$ happens in the NFL. If Seattle had not lost Cliff Avril, Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman, Chris Carson, CJ Prosise to season ending injury, do we really think we would be staring at a 8-6 record right now? Is pushing out a proven head coach simply because he is in his mid sixties, and by logic time catches up to us all the right thing to do, even when he has gotten us to five playoff campaigns in a row, including two Super Bowls? How good are the New York Giants looking like two seasons removed from pushing out proven winner Tom Coughlin?
For me, I think if Pete Carroll wants to continue coaching, there is nothing that I am seeing that makes me think like he is slowing down, and you keep him around. You improve personnel that will help build a run game that can be relied on. By all accounts, this coming draft looks like the type of draft to get a really good RB or possibly even two.
As for Tom Cable, maybe you make a change, but personally, I would like to see how this line grows under him now that they traded for a LT that, by and large, perfectly fits his ZBS. I’m pretty confident Germain Ifedi and Ethan Pocic will be better players in 2018. If you make a change at the OL coach, do you changed scheme? Does that build cohesion?
I think it’s easy to say the defense has regressed when you don’t have the pieces in place that were intended to be there. People can argue that the defense was regressing for the last few years, but I chose to step back and look at the bigger picture. If Kam Chancellor, Cliff Avril, and Richard Sherman had not been lost to season injury, the Sheldon Richardson trade might appear way more exciting to fans, and that defense may have jettisoned back up to elite level status once chemistry continued with the new additions. Personally, I think this defense stands a better chance to getting back to elite status by the simple fact that the defense is always going to be Pete Carroll’s baby, and maybe he will see the need to tweak a few things here and there, and they will be fine. Maybe it is bringing Ken Norton Jr back as the LB coach. Maybe they drop back in the draft to try and recoup a Day 2 pick, target LB, or Edge in addition to RB. Personally, I think depth has gotten challenged big time. How nice would it have been, at the very least, to have Naz Jones, and KJ Wright against the Rams yesterday?
Anyhow, here are my rambling thoughts, and I’m sticking with them. Keep Pete, make some tweaks, and keep it rolling.
Go Hawks.
Yeah-that scenario was kind of like a George Bailey/bummer-alternative timeline from an NFL version of Its A Wonderful Life. Timely for the holidays and effective as a come-back-down-to-earth call! Good one!
That should have followed *Bakers team now.
Bevell and Cable MUST GO!!!
Time for some “fresh air” on the offensive side of the ball!
This won’t happen, as Pete is a stubborn ass that will destroy this team and Russell over the next few years…
NEW OC!!!
Just shows how spoiled we’ve been for the last number of years. Yes I am very disappointed with that game and the way the season has gone but most teams in the league sitting at 8-6 with two games to go would not be calling for an overhaul of the organisation. I think Pete Carroll has to adapt but I would not call for his head. Perhaps sprucing up his staff might work, some new, fresh and DIFFERENT ideas might be all we are lacking. Especially on offense. As for the defence, I think we can give them a bye this year. They basically have no healthy starters, the blue print is there if they add a wee bit more talent and IF the vets come back at peak level. As we know the defensive core (Wagner/Thomas) should still be around for a long time. A think in most cases this year the D was just wanting our offense to score some bloody points and not have to chase a game for once.
Right on. Adapt. Adapt. Adapt.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000895088/article/sean-mcvay-guides-focused-rams-to-cusp-of-division-title
Interesting article by Mike Silver who seems pretty in touch with what is going on with the Hawks. According to him we may well have seem the last of Sherm, Earl, Avril, Bennett, Avril and Kam.
If so it was an amazing run and one of the all time great defenses in the NFL and I am grateful as a fan to have witnessed it.
I hope that its not true for ET. ET and B Wag have to be a core of our defense in next 3 or 4 years if we want one more title with RW as our QB.
interesting take from someone who has not taken a good look at the cap situation. Hard to take it seriously. Just a hot take. They cannot cut Kam, cap hit becomes huge. If he can play, he will play for the Hawks. Same with Sherman. They can save money by releasing him or trading him, but then they have to replace him and they will sign free agents and eliminate comp pics for 2019. Bennett has been playing injured most of the year, they will bring him back and he has little trade value. Why trade him for a 5th or 5th round draft pick who might not even make the team? Avril will probably be gone. Highly doubt they trade Earl.
Their cap situation is not great, but it is not dire. Kam is really the only player where if he cannot play they are taking a big hit. They have not had a lot of back loaded contracts that will screw them up down the road.
The Hawks can reload quickly because of the way they have set up their cap. They hurt their cap this year by trading for Richardson and Brown, both because of injuries and because they felt they had a shot to win this year. You cannot predict how things work out, but they took a shot and it did not work. They will try again, and keep trying.
+ 1 seems like a load bs from someone who doesn’t know what the hell theyre talking about to me.
I agree. Earl holds together the pass defense as Bobby holds together the run defense. We need both of those guys here.
That article seems like a lot of speculation. People keep saying that Kam is gone but that injury settlement aint going anywhere.He wont be released, the only way he is gone is if he retires and Im not sure he wants to forfeit $12 million. Bennett could be gone next year but for sure probably 2019. I would prefer if Sherman play out his contract and see how he does then go from there. We have to get younger somewhere though. KJ’s spot is one area, if we sign McDougal to replace Kam thats not getting very much younger. We dont want to blow up the defense all at one time, maybe a little this year (Avril, or either not resigning Richardson or letting Bennett go) then lettinh Kam go after 2019 and KJ as well. Just some thoughts. Or we could just bring them all back and hope for the best then really rebuild after the 2018 season but if you do that your kind of throwing away 2019. All big decisions.
If they had cut or traded RS, last offseason, they could have pursued and afforded Abouye.
Abouye+ draft picks or Sherman nearing the end of his contract.
Sherman isn’t irreplaceable and neither is Thomas.
Today was three things: 1) an indictment of the LB depth 2) a bad game by the OL against a DL that knows how to play us and makes RW nervous, and 3) special teams failure, again.
Defense: Our D scheme is simple. We need speed in the middle. 54, 50, and 29 make this D go. We saw last year how it can fall apart without 29 in the deep middle 1/3 (more like 1/2 sometimes). Today we see what it’s like without stud LB’s in there. Goff only had one pass of more than 10 yards and they still put up 42. With 56, 25 and 31 gone, it seemed like the D was dealing with injuries, and it was. But it was bent not broken, to steal the phrase and use it another way. Yesterday without KJ and Wagz it was finally broken. No matter what “energy” PC or Richard has, it can’t cover that up.
Offense: Just no ability to handle the DL. 99 was chaos, and it spooked RW – mostly rightfully, as usual a few not so rightfully. Teams that can rush up the gut are our kryptonite cuz RW gets more skittish. But with LA their whole DL is ready and used to the patented RW spin out and contains him very well. Can’t recover from mistakes. If we have a mistake, the drive is basically gonna end in a punt or worse.
Special teams: yuck.
Off the field and in the front office, I think they knew cap issues and lack of depth and draft capital was the risk of taking a shot with an aging D. But do you blame PC/JS for hanging on? How often do you have one of the great all-time D’s? You have to milk that a bit. And combined with RW/ET injuries last year, and another offseason for Ifedi and Fant, I think they committed fully to a strategy of try one more time to get a few pieces to get over the top, get on a roll, and buzz saw into the playoffs. If they’re guilty of something, it’s of “always compete” being brought into the front office and giving up the draft picks for the in-season trades this year. I would wager that PC/JS knew this was the last year to hang on.
The big question is did they “hang on” one more year because that’s all PC wanted, and then he’s gonna fade away after the season rather than start over a bit? idk. I hope he stays though, I think the team is pretty normal really, it’s just that his style is more open and wee see the sausage being made more than in any other pro sports team.
So leading to next year:
1. PC stays if he wants. So does JS.
2. I think Avril retires, but I don’t think Kam will unless he has to medically. I would keep him and Sherman.
3. I’d start thinking about Sherman as a second safety to pair with ET. I don’t know if the contract value would allow that much on a safety, but his ball skills and toughness are great. He couldn’t be a thumper like Kam, but he said he wants to play safety and I think he and ET could disguise coverage more and be a great pair on the back end.
4. I’d let Joeckel, Bennett, Lane, Rawls, and Lacy go for sure in one way or another.
5. I’d try hard to keep Coleman.
6. I’d see how the market is for Prich and Sheldon. I’d take either but not both if the market is not as hot as they are hoping.
7. If we get Prich, I’d try to trade Lockett. Unfortunately a quality person whom it seems the injury robbed of all his juice. If Prich is gone, then I’d keep him.
8. If we get neither Prich or Sheldon, I’d keep Graham also if the market is a bit soft. If we get one of the others, I’d be sad to see him go but I think we need the cap room.
I like your take and the proposal for next year could definitely be a possibile way forward. I’m especially convinced of sticking to the principle of not overpaying anyone. That’s how you get yourself in cap hell. You just have to have the guts to swallow the loss and look to the next guy up.
RE: Special Teams performance; I think Brock H. made an excellent point during the game broadcast, when he mentioned that the ST unit had a lot of new to ST backups playing as a result of all the injuries. Lockett, is still a very good returner, he just needs more consistent blocking as well as less ST penalties in order to show his abilities.
Wow… what a way to ruin my weekend aye? I hate the Rams, always will. The Jeff Fischer days saw to that. Which makes it all the more painful to know that their coaching staff and playing personal were quite simply superior to ours today. No other way of putting it. Special teams in particular was a mess, Jon Ryan has been a low key favourite of mine since the td pass in the NFC championship game against the Packers that launched the comeback. (I have his jersey) But he’s clearly passed it now.
Offence was shocking, Im so disappointed in our pass protection, coming of good games against two elite d lines. They had a shocker. Aaron Donald is incredible, he’s my DPOY sorry Wags 🙁 Im inclined not to over react to a bad game though, after 4 games of progress. Easier said than done for many I imagine.
Im going to throw something out here though… This loss was not on the Defence.
They had 1 drive in the entire first half where they weren’t already in their own territory, and they got a turnover on that drive! other than that they held up as well as can be expected for a while. Forcing field goals where possible, at least to begin with. By the end they too seemed demoralised and beaten, but i think given the circumstances they performed ok. That td run on 3rd and 20 was unacceptable but truth be told the game was done at that point regardless.
I do find it laughable that most of the players people are using this game to justify the need to be traded or cut were not playing… like how does this game prove we need to move on from Kam, KJ, Sherman? If anything it proves we desperately need them.
I get where the rebuild thinking come from, but Im not gonna sit here and say PC or anyone needs to be fired. It might be the best thing or it might not. I think its on Pete, the guy has earned my loyalty and admiration. I live in England and am therefore relatively new to this sport, new enough that he’s the only Seahawks coach Ive known (I know, what a typically disgraceful Seahawks glory supporter, it was pre-2012 in my defence) but his mantra, his coaching style, his football style is what made me fall in love with this team and in love with this sport.
So I repeat, its on him. If Pete wants to have another go around, retool instead of rebuild, go at it again with an incredibly talented but snake bitted core. A hawkssong, if you will
Ill be right behind him.
“Football will always be about blocking and tackling”. Bill Walsh
We can’t sustain a block or get off of blocks.
Wow, I have not seen so much crying and whining since Hillary lost to Trump. We’re you really expecting Seattle to get very far even if they made the playoffs?The whole defense is depleted, there is no running game. Offense line, cmon the rams play us tough all the time. This is the best thing that could have happened to Seattle, especially after losing to Jacksonville. You know, we’ve traded away draft picks, now we have an opportunity to trade down and recoup a little of what was traded away. This is great not making the playoffs and hopefully they won’t. This game clearly identified even more what many Seahawks fans already knew. Weak, defense depleted via injury and a lot of youngsters trying to fill in. Exception Byron Maxwell, who can’t even cover himself with a wet blanket. Yeah, the offense line needs fixing, but depth and youth are also needed at LB, DE. This doesn’t even factor in the running game. Am I dissapointed? HECK YEAH, but sometimes you need something like this to re-evaluate/ reload on talent. I’m actually more dissapointed in some of these posts than Seattle not making the playoffs. Lots of overreacting and not realizing, Seattle wasn’t going far with this depleted defense and no running game.
agreed. Better to not make the playoffs this year and make the real changes needed. If they make the playoffs, they cannot win 3 games on the road. They need to come back healthy, with some new blood. And probably better for the vets to not play the extra game or 2 this year and maybe they can be healthier next year.
It’s not really the point. Most people are frustrated because these are the same problems the Hawks have had for years. It’s not about one game, or one missed playoff season. It’s about PC and his inability to make changes when necessary and paint a “real” picture, instead of the same old mantra that Sherman mocked last year. If PC isn’t willing to make changes in discipline, personnel and coaching staff, next year will be the same thing. Lead the league in penalties, top 5 in sacks allowed, always starting slow etc….
BB gets mad props because his team has gone from defense, to offense, to running offense, to passing offense, not only by year, but sometimes by week. PC is a broken record. It was great when you had the young talent, but the talent is satisfied, so get new talent and change the philosophy a little
LOL,, 🙂 🙂 I’m pleased to see that many people finally agree with me that Tom Cable and Kris Richards has to go. If Pete isn’t willing to let them go, it’s time to let Pete go as well. Don’t care if we keep DB or not.
Our GM should be put on notice as well.
We MUST do everything we can to make sure RW prime isn’t wasted away by people at the Top.
Can you please share with us the list of names you have lined up to replace our entire coaching staff and front office with?
Panic forcing RW to start from zero with completely different people surrounding him is what might be a great way to waste away quite a few years of his prime.
Anything is better than status quo. 🙂
Einstein would agree with me and tell you that it would be crazy to expect different results if we’re unwilling to make a change. 🙂
A solidified OL and a normal amount of injuries on defense and this team is a contender again.
2nd and 3rd round picks are overrated. Making trades this season is not where JS went wrong. I’ve always wondered why we didnt spend 8 or 9 million in cap space for a top punter, fullback, and kicker. Our problems this year have been: Special teams, injuries, and officiating. I still believe that we are nearly as good as the super bowl team. Those 2013 and 2014 teams were unnaturally healthy.
2nd Rd picks are not over rated. Picks in the top half of round two are the best picks you can have. Most of the production of the first rounders at much less cost.
There’s a reason team like NE cover those high 2nd rounders.
Bobby Wagner, Russell Wilson, Frank Clark, and a whole boatload of players around the league beg to differ. I think the error is not so much overrating R2-R3 as fans in general undervaluing anyone beyond R1 names they recognize and who are perceived to promise an immediate impact on the field. And many times, they too are disappointed. Teams who commit to coaching up do much better.
This is a better point IMO. But was it really “unnaturally”, or was it more like our players were younger and we had better depth/rotation and TOP? I agree that so many injuries to stars all coinciding this season is a bit unlucky, but does it really surprise anyone that younger players who log a lower percentage of snaps tend to take less of a beating and therefore recover faster and stay healthier?
The lack of a running game has affected the defense just as much or more as it has the offense. With TOP so low, the defense spent–now is the moment–“unnatural” amounts of time on the field the last couple years, and it has finally caught up with them. Doesn’t surpise me one bit.
In 2014, the defense logged 978 snaps during the regular season. In 2016, they had 1078. In 2014, our average TOP (excl. OT) was 31:09 (#7). In 2016, it was 29:47. (#20)
Man the Seahawks get pounded and a bunch of new people show up in the room. Havent seen half of these names that are popping up.
True. I have followed this site for many years and very rarely post because I have little of value to add to the several knowledgeable posters on here. The site is so good because of its considered opinions, and I certainly have no wish to pollute it with any hormonal angst following a particularly difficult defeat. May Rob continue to promote the values that make this site so different from others.
This game was an indictment on everything that Pete Carroll built this team on.
Always compete? “Star” players like Bennett haven’t competed all year for anything. He’s been invisible. Earl has regressed in tackling and spacial awareness. He’s not what he used to be. This defense is STAGNANT. It needed to be shaken up last year, but the team doubled down on this core, and those decisions have come back to haunt this team in a big way. If Bennett and Chancellor hadn’t been re-signed, you could cut bait with Kam, Avril, Sherman, Bennett or Chancellor and save HUGE against the cap. Now? You’d be lucky to get a 5th for Bennett. You’d be lucky if Kam doesn’t screw up our cap next year by not retiring. You’d be lucky if Sherman can even play the first 5 games of the season or doesn’t re-tear his Achilles. Nobody should be safe except for Earl and Wagner.
On the offensive side, nobody has disappointed me more than Tyler Lockett. This kid used to be so dynamic – breaking his leg has probably killed his career. He’s got no burst, lost his top end gear, and hasn’t looked shifty or run sharp routes all year. Nobody on the offense should be safe other than Russell Wilson and Doug Baldwin.
Bevell and Cable haven’t innovated this offense since 2014. This falls back on Pete. His loyalty to poor coaches is what started the downfall of USC as a dynasty. If he won’t fire Bevell, Cable, and Richard, I think you might need to get rid of him as well. The whole coaching staff has failed to motivate this team, and I think Pete has been resting on his laurels and has lost some of the fire that he had in 2012/2013/2014.
I don’t think the Seahawks should sign a single free agent – reload on comp picks. Sheldon Richardson? Let him walk. Graham? I was his biggest defender, but he should walk too. Paul Richardson? Let somebody else pay him. Luke Joeckel? Nope.
This team needs what the Steelers did with Big Ben. Let the defense go, and build around your star QB. Sure, it might take a year to really reload (especially as the Front Office went all in this year and mortgaged the future), but as long as we have Wilson, we’ll be in the hunt.
Yep, was in the minority. Don’t pay the veterans again (MB/CA/KC), need new blood. 2 players should be the team. RW on offense and BW on defense. Outside of those two, let all the FA go (unless McDougald takes a deal) and find a way to trade MB and RS. Even for picks in 2019. Get the money off the books and build OL (without Cable and his input) with players that have played the position. Don’t need athletes on the line, need linemen on the line.
Top 3 picks for me would be:
RB (need a stud)
WR (need a big threat, not little speed threat)
OT (need a tackle, even if Brown stays, that’s only for another year)
If this team gets a relatively high pick (top 18?), do you still want a trade down? I don’t, I think the team needs a premium prospect which you may get at pick 18. Quentin Nelson, Billy Price, Derwin James… That would be a nice shot in the arm and someone you can build around as the team transitions.
Good lord. It’s the 2nd season out of the last 8 where we will miss the playoffs. I think people are overreacting slightly. Don’t get me wrong, I’m very disappointed in this season and frankly, the Seahawks have been a chore to watch all year. But it’s one season. A lot of things have gone wrong this year and I’m just not willing to clean house yet, whether it be with players or coaching staff. We currently have the 3rd longest playoff streak behind the Patriots and the Packers.
Davis Hsu is back on the trade Russell bandwagon. Sigh.
Trade RW, RS and MB to Cleveland for (2 1st/2 2nd/1 3rd)
1st S. Barkley
1st M. McGlinchey
1st B. Chubb
Won’t and shouldn’t, but nice Madden trade there
Yeah I’ve just unfollowed him on Twitter. He’s reaching horribly, this is what the 2nd/3rd time he’s suggested it along with that idiot Jared.
No one is saying he’s perfect but fuck me you don’t trade a franchise QB. Do Packers fans do this?
The cries of coaching changes are frustrating to me. You see it every year in NFL and college. It rarely leads to lasting success. While i can agree Pete’s message is a little stale the issue is always the lack of good candidates. Seriously who is a slam dunk hire to replace Pete?… You are either gambling on a retread or young guy. No great seasoned options exist besides pulling Gruden or Parcells out of the announcing booth and that doesn’t even sound good. Mcvay, Gase and Shannahan were the best young coordinators out there and now 2 are in the division. Do you give Josh McDaniels another go? Same thing with Cable. Can people even name 5 O-line coaches? The assumption is that there is someone better out there. There may not be.
Some are quick to get rid of the vets and start completely over. Draft replacements and develop them into stars is such a simple sounding solution. The draft is not so simple. We had historic drafts from 2010-12 that is simply unrepeatable for that time frame. It will not be a given the 2nd time around. Also the same staff many want fired is the exact staff that is expected to make 5th round picks, undrafted free agent running backs and converted D-linemen into stars? If we are a truly elite franchise we reload not rebuild. We have the ultimate luxury in the sport, a franchise QB. We would be fools to waste even 1 year.
I don’t think the staff will change the philosophy. It means too much to Pete. But the methodology and execution can be improved. For an old coach Pete is actually pretty open to the new and the situation seems to force it sooner than later. I’d rather add to the staff. I thought a Chip Kelly like infusion of concepts would be great last year. Maybe bring in a familiar face like Ken Norton to settle the unrest on D. Add in another game planning guy to help the offset the underrated loss of Rocky Seto who i think Pete misses. Its all gloom and doom today. The next few weeks may suck but I’m choosing to let the people that built this era figure it out for another year. They earned that much.
+1
The last few weeks I’ve been thinking about Schneider, and wondering how much Scot McCloughan had to do with the great drafts vs. PCJS. McCloughan is interesting to say the least, but I think he’s a great judge of talent. Plus I had his dad’s bubblegum card back in the day…