Instant reaction: Seahawks should make changes now

December 26th, 2021 | Written by Rob Staton

The Seahawks reached a new low today.

The Bears were starting their third-string quarterback. They had numerous other players out, including Akiem Hicks.

Losing this game, another one at home, is unthinkable.

Yet here we are.

They blew a 10-point fourth quarter lead to a team that is practically on its knees.

And it was all played out in front of a sparse Lumen Field — sending a clear message to ownership how the fan base feels about this team. I’ve been at a snow game in Seattle — worse than this one. It was packed.

Let’s get a few points out of the way.

Russell Wilson still doesn’t look right. Increasingly that finger injury looks like it should’ve provoked an 8-10 week absence, if not a season-ending situation. Seattle and Wilson’s desperation, given the state of the franchise, has led to a rush back and the results have been incredibly poor, disappointing and frustrating.

He jumps fleetingly between looking something like his old self and then incapable of making the easiest of completions. It’s as difficult to watch as any part of this team currently.

He’s not the only problem though — far from it. And anyone who thinks removing Wilson and keeping everything else the same is the right move will need to go to great lengths to back that viewpoint up.

The much vaunted defense gave up way too many easy drives to this patched-up Bears offense. Special teams was poor — Jason Myers’ missed field goal was decisive.

But the whole thing just felt like an exclamation point. This era is over. It’s done.

Finished.

Change is inevitable. If Wilson’s going to be traded — fine. Yet Pete Carroll and John Schneider shouldn’t survive to rebuild the team. Either way, they should go. And you can’t trade Wilson now. You can’t draft a new quarterback tomorrow. You can start talking to replacement coaches though — and it would be remiss of the Seahawks to put themselves behind the eight ball in that off-season competition for the pool of available names.

Mike Holmgren once did a farewell lap of honour after a snow-game against the Jets in 2008. Carroll should’ve had his today, too.

The window to interview employed coaches in the league begins this week. Seattle should be among the teams talking to candidates.

This loss should be the final straw.

Jody Allen — change is needed.

If Carroll won’t announce he’s leaving at the end of the season, if he won’t walk away — you need to take the decision out of his hands.

It’s over to you.

220 Responses to “Instant reaction: Seahawks should make changes now”

  1. David Ashton says:

    Tonight was rough.

    Penny giving us glimpses of what could have been on offence. But otherwise as a team not a lot to shout about

    Deary o me.

  2. CHaquesFan says:

    Penny was great today, he’s been a bright spot
    Hope they keep him around

  3. Kyle says:

    Yuck. Absolutely putrid. There’s not a single aspect of this team operating well.

  4. pdway says:

    that was incredibly embarrassing. game felt under control for 57 mins. Myers’ choke gave them the life they needed, and our D came up small when it mattered.

    And Russell? If his finger is still bothering him, fine, I’ll accept that. but he can’t run away from anyone anymore, he gets caught time and time again – and at this stage of his career, his judgment about when to get rid of the ball and avoid a sack – needs to be a lot better. I don’t know, it’s going to be a momentous/tumultuous test of an off-season. Biggest one in a very long time.

  5. Kendo says:

    This one was painful to watch. Having a sub 6’ CB play man on Jimmy Graham is incompetent. Plus the team just looked like they couldn’t do anything on the final drives. We need change at the top on down in so many places. I wouldn’t feel bad if RW decides to demand a trade in the offseason. I think he gives the team the best shot at competing but why would he want to stick around on a team so completely trash right now and with so little draft capital. History has shown us that salary cap space will be eaten up real quick with overpriced journeymen if this regime sticks around.

    Thank you PC and JS but your time to fade into the setting sun as heroes is long gone. It’s time to for your time in Seattle to be taken out back to the pasture and given the Old Yeller ending.

  6. Matthew says:

    Penny showing up and being what he was drafted to be in the final year of his contract, in a the final games of a losing season just makes drafting him even more annoying. Playing for a contract. Once he gets it, hard to imagine him showing up like this, when he’s admitted he wasn’t taking his career seriously, as far as fitness/training/diet around year 3…bah.

    • BA says:

      It would be absolutely classic Seahawks to re-sign him to a large contract right as he disappears back into mediocrity.

      • Big Mike says:

        Would be classic PCJS

      • L80 says:

        Penny won’t get much on a contract. H’e showing some now but for 4 years it’s been completely underwhelming. They should absolutely keep him for at least a couple years. There’s too many other holes to fill.

        Did you see the absolute DREADFUL play of Amadi?…Gawd he sucks.

    • Peter says:

      I think seattle may retain him. I can not imagine what any one offers him on an open market.

      He’s had four (!!!) Good games in as many seasons.

      Chubb: almost 4x more yards, over 4x more TD’s
      Taylor: over double penny’s yards, over 3x td’s (in two seasons)
      Javonte Williams: 2/3rds penny’s yards, half his total tds (one season)

      I’m seeing him staying. Not cause i like it but not sure anyone gives him more thsn a near vet minimum contract.

      • Simon McInnes says:

        Obviously his lack of match health is behind a lot of it, but he has shown that if he is the feature back, he has the ability to break a big run at workable intervals. What I really fear is that he stays in Seattle and ends up as no. 2 behind Carson or a similar type and is not seen at his best, or he goes somewhere that are just better at keeping him healthy

  7. Nick says:

    It’s just sad it’s gotten to this point. In my mind everyone is tradeable, Pete and John both need to go respectfully. ALL of the rot that festers within the franchise needs to be cut out.

    • Cysco says:

      Heh, the thing is, there’s virtually no one on the team that any other team would want. Russ, DK, Dickson. That’s probably it. On an entire NFL roster, there’s two, maybe three players that any other team would entertain giving up anything for. (And one of them is a freak’n punter) And that’s the problem.

      • Hawkcrazy says:

        I would certainly add Taylor to the mix teams would also want Lockett he is good and affordable for a WR and a team trading for Wilson would see the chemistry. There are others (eg Eskridge (lots of upside still), Poona, Lewis, that other teams would like but they would try to buy on the cheap) I agree with Rob that potentially add the right coaching and a couple good drafts and we could turn it all around and be superbowl contenders again. Need to start hitting on draft picks and free agents and get players consistent with the identity you are trying to establish.

  8. Nathan M says:

    I’m really trying to find bits and pieces to enjoy and look forward to but it’s just so few and far between. I can tolerate some losses when I see a team on the rise but this is just meltdown after meltdown… thanks, Rob, for at least offering a vision of a better future. I really hope your wish list comes to pass.

    It feels ugly to just pile on but appreciate having a place to just blow off this frustration. My wife is rather tired of me being grumpy every Sunday evening.

  9. Rad_man says:

    This franchise is in deep shit.

    • RC3 says:

      They have been in deep shit for at least 2 years now, just keep digging the hole deeper trying to patch it up to a mediocre team.

  10. Joshua Smith says:

    Spot on.
    Wilson just doesn’t look right. The finger injury might be a significant explanation but I have also been questioning his decision making. He has thrown deep into double coverage several times this season when there were underneath routes available. Spinning around and running backwards taking a critical sack in FG range was a rookie mistake and led to the missed FG. I still hope to keep him but wholesale changes will likely happen. Maybe Pete resigns in his post game interview today…
    On a plus side the Jets and Texans both won. If we end up trading Russ to the Giants maybe those picks will be higher… So gross that I even typed that.. 🤮

  11. KennyBadger says:

    What an infuriating loss. There can be only one silver lining that comes from this and that is change. Bigly.

  12. Burner says:

    As soon as Myers missed the FG you knew which way it was going to go. I really hope Pete announces his retirement, he deserves to say goodbye in style and get a good send off from the fans.

    But the Carroll and Schneider era has to end in 2 games time, its reached the end of the line.

    • neil says:

      Wilson’s finger didn’t have anything to do with that sack and making it harder on Myers. I just can’t get over calling a pass in that situation.

      • Troy says:

        I agree. Tired of hearing about the finger. Let’s properly evaluate other parts of his game. His decision making is a problem and the drive killing sacks just make me cringe. His mobility is gone. He’s well past his prime from my vantage point.

  13. Whit21 says:

    We’ve had pathetic losses this year.. but this game was the worst loss in a long time.. they have made average qbs look good this year.. but this a bad bears team.. no reason to allow this loss..

    Pete carroll needs to be gone. History has shown with coaches getting to this stage of their career with one team.. it doesnt get better.. he wont get better with age..

    Drastic moves need to be made… why?

    Cuz paul allen would be looking for drastic changes right now..

    He went out and got a superbowl winning coach..

    He went and got a pete carroll.. paul allen didnt settle for mediocrity.. so.. jody allen shouldn’t either…

  14. blazerbill says:

    Pete Carroll will not announce retirement during the season. He is a big believer in finishing, playing to the end in the 4th quarter. What would it look like if he quits before the end of the season? Wilson is the same way, as all of the team players will play to the best until the final play of the season. They are all playing to build their resume and secure their futures either on this team or another team next year.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Pete Carroll will not announce retirement during the season. He is a big believer in finishing

      He is finished

      • Spencer says:

        I’m crossing my fingers that this conversation has happened/will happen, just behind closed doors. That way Pete gets to hold his head up and “comPETE” till the end while the administration gets a jump on the next hires. Maybe it’s a fool’s hope, but it’s a hope

      • Ashish says:

        He was finished 4 years ago. Got bonus 4 years because of his good work. But time to say good job and good bye.

      • Tomas says:

        Finished? One desperately hopes so. Yet, Pete may delude himself into relishing the challenge of turning things around next season. Prove he doesn’t need Russ. More fired-up than ever. Excited to have Darnold. I fear it may be entirely up to J. Allen, and we’ve all pretty much admitted on this forum that no one knows little or nothing about her leadership capabilities or instincts. Let’s hope and presume that she’s deeply concerned about the team’s slide, but is it unreasonable to imagine she gives Pete (and John) one more year? The enormously wealthy can afford to procrastinate, defer a difficult decision. I’d like to think that won’t happen, but, damn, I remain worried that we’ll lose ONLY Wilson this year – the worst case scenario as I see it. Personally, I hope Jody’s on the phone right now with Doug Pederson, or any of the other worthy names that Rob and others have mentioned. Hire Doug, retain Russ, and sign Nick Foles as back-up QB for 2022.

  15. M Harman says:

    Sad sad sad I have been a Hawk fan since their formation. I suffered through many bad seasons but this one was really hard. I’m not sold on Wilson but realize the difficulty of getting a top level QB. Thanks to Pete but time to move on. Thanks to you Rob for your hard work and insights. I hope that you are part of the rebuilding years. Cha you as well. You and Rob make a first class team.

  16. bk matty says:

    not sure the GIants would be willing to give up that much for RW right now. Its really sad as we are going to be forced to sell low on a guy who will likely win his next franchise a superbowl when he gets sorted out.

  17. 12th chuck says:

    why should tackling still be an issue still

  18. BobbyK says:

    This entire organization is pathetic.

    Russell Wilson takes a 14 yard sack on 3rd down knowing they have a chance to kick a FG to basically win the game. He knows our kicker sucks. But he makes him kick a 14 yard longer FG attempt. Predictably, because our Kicker sucks – he misses it. Pathetic QB play that has nothing to do with a finger. Pathetic Kicker.

    We go into a season wanting to run the ball but their “plan” is to rely on injured every year 9-years-in-a-row Chris Carson. Only to have a Head Coach complain publicly that his loss really hurt the team. Pathetic.

    Penny is a bright spot, but he’s no iron horse. He’s not a workhorse like Marshawn Lynch or Jonathan Taylor, but he’s the guy who is depended on. The roster construction of depending on injury prone players like Carson/Penny is absolutely pathetic. This isn’t the days of Marshawn Lynch and being okay with crap backups because Beast Mode is a workhorse.

    This is such a pathetic team. There’s no reason to have any hope for the future at this rate. Not with running the same crap out there (GM, coach, QB trio) since the pathetic reset began in ’18.

    You look at this roster – how many positions is there reason for genuine optimism in terms of having that unit be part of the reason a team goes to the Super Bowl in the future?

    What are the key building blocks on the DL? Maybe Taylor in a Cliff Avril type of role? That’t it. There’s nothing special anywhere else. There’s nothing close to a Chris Clemons. Pathetic.

    Where’s the reason for optimism at DT? Is there anything that gives you hope for the future? There’s nothing. Pathetic.

    I would assume Jordyn Brooks plays MLB next season. He’s decent and improving. This is one rare spot where we’re not pathetic. But we are pathetic because Bobby Wagner shouldn’t be around anymore with a $20M cap hit. He may be setting a career record for tackles, and he may still be one of the better MLBs in the league, but he’s clearly not the player he once was. There’s no shame in that. He’s had a HOF career. Everyone ages. That’s just the way it goes.

    With Brooks moving to MLB in all probability, the OLBs look unbelievably pathetic moving forward. Like embarrassingly pathetic.

    Diggs has been an underrated player and his Pro Bowl recognition is well deserved. He’s the bright spot in that secondary, but for a team with an immediate pathetic future do you really want to be the team that gives him a 3rd contract? Having him next season would help next year greatly, but it won’t make the team better than it is now. Is historically giving decent players good money on 3rd contracts a good idea? While I like Diggs, history proves you do not want to be the team giving big bucks out on long-term 3rd contracts.

    Is there a worse word than pathetic for Jamal Adams and the trade that brought him to Seattle? I can’t think of one but if there was one – that word should describe Adams and the “value” of that ripoff.

    This team is void of enough star talent to be one of the “big boys.” It’s void of the depth that can overcome the lack of star power. It has no 1st round pick to look forward to. We deserve to look forward to drool over the opportunity to draft a Chris Clemons type, a Steve Hutchinson type, a Cortez Kennedy type… of course, I am aware we could use an early 1st round pick on a Ray Roberts, Koren Robinson, or Anthony Simmons, but at least we could have hope in having that 1st round pick turn into something special, as opposed to knowing we’re stuck with a worthless SS who can’t cover and destroys too much of our salary cap because our management is too stupid to know he sucks (all things being equal, I know Adams does not suck… but taken into context of what was given to get him and what he’s paid… it’s clear Adams does suck).

  19. ShowMeYourHawk says:

    It’s easy to pile on him for it now, while the results aren’t there but I’ve been exhausted with Pete’s “eternal optimism of the aging mind” routine for years, now. Perhaps it’s time to bring in a “bad mood, ass-kicker?”

    As to Wilson, I’m more convinced than ever that he’ll be back in town next season. As far as I’m concerned, his trade value has sunk beyond a reasonable return. Regardless of where he plays next year, it was in his best interest to play well this season. Some teams will still bite but I’d think we need to temper our expectations for the bounty we’d receive. Unless, of course, some team values Wilson like Pete valued Adams. *sigh*

  20. BobbyK says:

    Aside from the clarity with the GM, coach, and QB, this is what I’m looking for the next few weeks:

    1. I don’t want to see anymore of Shell ever again. I want to see Curhan at RT both weeks. I want to know if he can be that young guy on a rookie contract who is a great asset to the team for 3 more years of inexpensiveness. Or if they feel he can play guard, too – get him in a week there. See what they got in real games that count.

    2. There is absolutely no reason Duane Brown needs to start at LT unless they truly thinks Stone Forsyth sucks and has no future (but if they think that, why is he even on the roster?). We need to know if Stone Forsyth can play there. Because if he can play there and be an average LT next year and Curhan can be a good RT… then we have something called HOPE which is a word I rarely use when talking about this organization anymore.

    This tackle position is one of the only areas on the team where I think they could be hope moving forward. It might not be much but it’s better than nothing.

    Maybe Duane Brown would be mad about not starting? But maybe he’d be happy with the opportunity to reach free agency knowing he’d be healthy, too. He did whine and sit-in during training camp so maybe he’d be happy knowing he’d be healthy, rather than playing for a bum team that’s going nowhere these last two weeks.

    • BradHawk says:

      I get it your pissed I’m hurt too! But the Sun will come up tomorrow we have lots of cape space while our competitors do not! We can’t screw up the draft because we don’t a round 1 pick in a crappy round 1. I know for a fact Rob Stanton is drooling over our 2nd, 3rd, 2 4rth round, and 5th round draft positions especially when our CB’s have proven to be serviceable.
      We can Tag Diggs & trade Wagner = more draft picks & we can rebuild the entire O-Line look whose hitting Free Agency & there will be WR’s available too.
      I’m praying Penny wins a new contract that way we can avoid acquiring a FA RB and look to the draft.

    • Scot04 says:

      I think Wilson would be more upset about Brown not starting.
      You don’t replace your starting LT unless you’re sure the person replacing him is better or Brown is injured.

  21. Stephen Walker says:

    Blame PC and JS all you want, thst loss was on Russell, his terrible situation awareness and his inability to throw the ball away
    That sack on 3rd down from the 8 was unforgivable
    To also keep blaming his finger is embarrassing. At this point the Seahawks should pull him as every game us reducing his trade value

    The arguement that we need to keep him and build around him is flawed beyond belief. It’s no coincidence we’ve changed OCs twice and the same issues persist and that his WR don’t really like him, Sidney Rice, Baldwin, DK to name just 3
    It’s time for Russ to move on

    • Rob Staton says:

      Blame PC and JS all you want, thst loss was on Russell, his terrible situation awareness and his inability to throw the ball away

      Who blamed PC and JS for the loss?

      The article specifically says Wilson played like crap.

      But he wasn’t alone was he??

      The arguement that we need to keep him and build around him is flawed beyond belief.

      No it isn’t.

      By all means disagree if you wish. I’ve discussed plenty of trade topics and am very open minded about any potential change.

      But everything argued in this piece for example:

      http://seahawksdraftblog.com/why-the-seahawks-need-their-matt-lafleur

      Is rooted in logic. It’s absolutely logical. It’s not remotely floored.

      You might disagree. But the thinking is perfectly rational.

      And this is why I hate the way this fan base debates at times. It’s pick a team and shout nonsense at each other.

      Please — do me a favour and at least acknowledge that a 2000 word, carefully thought out article is not ‘flawed beyond belief’. Just say why you disagree and argue your case.

      • Stephen Walker says:

        I didn’t mention at all that your 2000 word article was flawed beyond belief as your article didn’t specifically argue for Russ to have the team built around him
        The comment was my general view and not in the slightest damning of your blog
        I feel you might have gotten a little too defensive

        • Rob Staton says:

          No, I wasn’t too defensive.

          If you want to aim comments at a general view can I suggest making it clear that’s what you’re doing in future? Because when you don’t reply to any specific comment and just post in response, seemingly to a blog post with what you’ve written — it’s quite fair for the author of the post to assume it’s a direct challenge, given what you said.

          • mantis says:

            i think it makes most sense to move on from pete and see what russ can do with a matt lafleur type of coach, if russ doesn’t improve then move him

          • Whit21 says:

            Rob.. do you not reply to my comments because i make sense . Or i dont make stupid arguments that you have to reply and point out the obvious?

            • Stephen Walker says:

              Ah so my comments are stupid because you don’t agree
              Please educate me with where I am wrong and you are right
              Isn’t life about opinions ?

              • Roy Batty says:

                I would suggest you not make any more statements that are near absolutes.

                “flawed beyond belief” leaves very, very little room for discussion.

                Some people in here are in favor of moving on from Russ, but they don’t attack other’s points of view whilst stating their belief.

                • Stephen Walker says:

                  I didn’t attack anyone’s beliefs it was a general statement thst if you had bothered to read my reply to Rob highlighted the same

      • Elmer says:

        Coach Norton Jr. – how many times have you seen that Jimmy Graham post-up move in the end zone? Maybe the DB shouldn’t play behind Graham. Ya think? Maybe you should even consider fronting him. Nah – that would make too much sense.

    • Peter says:

      Please site examples of WR’s not liking him.

      I never recall rice disliking playing with him. Baldwin was a weird dude vut the two of them balled out.

      And DK. DK is a big dude, strong and fast. Who isn’t some sure handed, route running, world beater. He is a specimen who at times can yell at russ but let’s easy catches for a guy his size clang off his frame.

      • Rowdy says:

        I think it was pretty clear Baldwin had some off-putting feelings about russ but appreciated him too. Only thing I’ve heard dk say was after russ got injured he said it was nice to get a jump ball for once. Maybe not much there but a clear shot at russ and some dislike for how russ plays. But I wouldn’t read to much into it.

  22. BobbyK says:

    Another of the many examples why this is a worthless franchise:

    Anyone remember last off-season and the Seahawks were one of the teams willing to give up draft capitol for Julio Jones?

    Just another of the MANY examples of this team having NO long-term vision anymore. The last thing our Seahawks needed to be doing was trying to consider trading for injury prone old guys. Their vision is so bad these days it’s embarrassing.

  23. Hoggs41 says:

    Fire Pete, keep Schneider and see what he can do on his own. Also fire Ken Norton as well. Look to hire Doug Pederson and bring in a solid DC. Possibly keep Waldron as long as hes not calling the plays.

    • Roy Batty says:

      No new HC in his right mind keeps Waldron. They would have there own idea on how their offense is run. They wouldn’t have any interest in retaining an OC who’s offense is stale and predictable.

      The entire coaching staff need to be shown the door. A clean sweep. Let the new HC build it his way.

      • Stephen Walker says:

        would suggest you not make any more statements that are near absolutes.
        The run game has improved under Waldron the last half of the season, the pass game not.
        Do we know that’s on Waldron ?

  24. KennyBadger says:

    Meant for BH.

  25. CWagner says:

    Yeah agree with everything here. I wish I could say I was surprised by the ending but I’m not. Even when they’re well ahead, they let other teams back in the game. It’d be one thing if they played the Chiefs or Bucs, but they didn’t. They gave the game to the bears. Ironically, if this game does in fact seal PC’s fate, as it should, they essentially lost to a touchdown thrown to Jimmy Graham.

    Nice to see Penny doing well lately. Too bad it’s too late into his rookie contract. Plus I wonder for how long he can continue running well before he peters out or gets hurt again.

  26. Fresno fan says:

    Rob would you mind changing my name from m Harman to Fresno fan Thanks

  27. KSblazer says:

    Me too

    This team needs some change unless your content with what we we saw today.

  28. Big Mike says:

    Ah gee Rob, the guy’s takes were so ludicrous they were hysterical.

  29. Group captain mandrake says:

    This team sucks and is not enjoyable to watch. I’m sure part of the sparse crowd was probably weather related. I’m sure there were probably plenty of people that decided they arent going to sit outside in 23 degree weather to watch this team.

    • Roy Batty says:

      A snowy game in a non-snowy city is the absolute perfect gauge of fan apathy for Allen to ingest.

      A filled stadium means the fan base is still on board.

      Empty seats means the fan base is bored.

      They are bored.

      • God of Thunder says:

        Not intending to critique what you say, as I agree. But I wouldn’t say I’m bored. I’m appalled!

        • Roy Batty says:

          Hahaha, I can think of about 100 more adjectives to add to that.

          The empty seats, the crowd noise from Bears fans on that final Seahawk drive, and the large amount of Bears fans clamoring for players autographs near the tunnel…that will not be missed by Allen.

          Embarrassing.

          • cha says:

            I’d say the Niners game two weeks ago was 45% Niners fans. Maybe as many as 55%. Was a bad look.

            • Roy Batty says:

              Next Sunday is slated to be 39 degrees and raining. That is even worse than snowy conditions. It seeps in and chills you to the very core. With so few Detroit fans in the world, imagine if they actually make the same amount of noise that the Bears fans did?

      • Group captain mandrake says:

        That’s pretty much my point. People opted NOT to sit outside and watch this team. In previous years people would have still gone. I guess this is a wake up call for all those people who didn’t cheer for them through the 90s.

    • Hawkcrazy says:

      Certainly this is the case. I am from Canada and given the date and Covid testing couldn’t go down to the game. Gave my tickets to a friend in Washington state and he was on his way to the game but snowing so bad he turned around and the tickets were wasted. I am sure that this is not an isolated occurance. Wonder how many fans show up for the Detroit game….

  30. blazerbill says:

    Yes, he is finished, either willingly on his own or will be forced to turned in his resignation by the owner.
    He probably has already made the decision. All I am saying is fans should not expecting it to happen until after the season is over.

  31. Gross MaToast says:

    Sucks for it to end like this for Pete and RW. They each likely have one home game left in Seattle and it’s (hopefully) a sad ending to a notable era.

    This season is not an aberration. Poor roster construction, poor drafts, poor free agent spending, god-awful trades – 5-10 is precisely what the Seahawks are right now and that falls in the lap of Pete. He’s had far too much power in this franchise for far too long. JS is either a milquetoast afterthought or he actually had some say in the running of this team – neither is flattering and he should not be retained.

    Hopefully Jody Allen has already made the call and the powers-that-be have identified candidates and are prepared to interview this week. Pete should announce that he’s done and allow Seattle to send him off with a round of cheers. It’s time.

    • Gross MaToast says:

      Is there another franchise that would hire Pete as their head coach?

      How about KNJr for DC?

      Shane Waldron as OC?

      JS GM?

      It’s honestly dumbfounding that a professional sports franchise ends up with this.

      • BobbyK says:

        Pete would be fine if he had a long-term vision like he did over 10 years ago. But he doesn’t have that anymore.

        I think Pete Carroll is a bit better of a coach than Sean Payton, but I think Pete would be better for the Saints in ’22, as Payton would be for the Seahawks next year. Sometimes change is needed almost for the sake of it. Unless you’re Bill Belichick, a long run is unusual (or unless you are the Bengals owner and keep below average Marvin Lewis around forever).

        I don’t think Shane Waldron will ever get an OC job ever again. He’s gotta be one and done.

        • Gross MaToast says:

          I should’ve been clearer, but hiring Pete now at 70 is probably a no-go for every franchise not named Jacksonville.

          And you’re right, Shane Waldron won’t sniff another OC job for a very long time and it’s arguable that accepting the job was a career setback for him. He’s going to wear that Peteball stink for awhile.

          • Chris says:

            I don’t think Waldron will have trouble getting a second chance. Everyone in the league, both on offense and defense knows how bland Pete’s offenses are. How much control he exerts, and I don’t think that’s simply a matter of Run-Run-Pass-Punt. I wouldn’t be surprised if Pete is involved in play design as well.

  32. Roy Batty says:

    To me, one play sums up the entire season. Russ attempting to scramble up the middle, with under a minute left, instead of throwing it away. All the while he is staring at multiple defenders, 10 yards down field, eyeing his every move. He knows he can’t beat them for a big gain and a first down. He knows he can’t reach the sideline. He knows the clock is ticking and will now continue to tick. Yet he tucks it under his arm and ignores any and all rational decision making.

    The sheer stupidity of that one play is, honestly, all that I care to remember from tonight’s game.

    This season in a nutshell.

    • Simon McInnes says:

      I see your play and raise you – Chicago need 9 yards for a first down, the receiver is so wide open that he has time to catch a four yard pass, fall over, get up IN THE SNOW and still make a first down

      • Roy Batty says:

        LOL, it has come to this.

        We, the Seahawk faithful, are reduced to ranking truly rank plays.

        This is how far this franchise has fallen.

  33. RIP Sonics says:

    Coaches insist on calling plays that rely on player doing more than they are capable. Russ is clearly off and he has been for a year and a half (Finger just exacerbated issues we’ve seen throughout his career). Why call plays that rely on him making the play instead of calling the game for how he is playing now. Same for wagner.. Too many times he was the lone zone linebacker in the middle of a dime package getting burned or lumbering to make the tackle. He isn’t a rangy linebacker anymore and we are calling plays and packages that put him in that position too often.
    The biggest frustration for me has been getting ahead in games and watching teams stay in 4-2-5 against us knowing we won’t stick to the run. We get ahead and instead of stepping on the gas and making the other team stop the run we seem to use it as an opportunity to pad the stats and air it out.

    • God of Thunder says:

      Agreed. And clearly part of the running game problem is the mediocrity of the RBs! As well as the line in front of them. No wonder they turn to RW’s passing.

  34. McZ says:

    Echo chamber…? I think, there are indisputable facts.

    PC gets his ass kicked week in, week out. His coaching and clock management has been atrocious for some time, and was only acceptable, as long as RW somehow kept the show afloat.

    This is not a good football team, and has been in various parts for quite a long time. Everytime we temporarily fix one problem field, two others are opening. This is the season, where all comes together. It was a matter of time, it was inevitable. The result is embarrassing, a stinking product.

    And while some players you mentioned had their moments, they are all inconsistent. Numerous players are simply bad, not even replacement grade. Only Diggs is delivering, but he also is a FA end of season, and this franchise is possibly forced to pass, because face saving over the peacock has greater priority than performance.

    What is also clear: PCJS cannot turn around this team. They tried for the better part of five years. It isn’t working. Their scouting and processing of the draft are not up to task. No FA of any standing will forget the disastrous 2020 pro bowl.

    The draft position at this rate would have been a top 10 pick. I cannot get, how someone can talk himself into believing, that missing out on top 10 talent is a good thing. That’s ridiculous. And even if I could accept this, even the players we missed ou in 2021 are frustrating. One has to imagine a decent center, or Jonathan Taylor, possibly both.

    No, the game is over, and I cannot say, how much I want to underscore the last two paragraphs of Robs piece.

    • Group captain mandrake says:

      I don’t mind missing picking in the top 10. What I mind is not having the opportunity to trade down from there and accumulate some later round picks, which is where Rob thinks the value is (I agree with him). Of course we all know those picks would be wasted anyway. There needs to be some change this off-season.

  35. God of Thunder says:

    No illusions now. Or should I say delusions?

    A thorough rebuild is needed. And that should be made clear to the fan base. We’ll tolerate that, if it’s out to us honestly. I.e., no tweaks or retooling on the fly, in one year.

    Not having a first rounder SHOULD necessitate honesty on the part of ownership: even trading RW can’t yield a starting QB from the upcoming draft. It’ll be a two year rebuild minimum if RW is traded, and most likely a two year rebuild if RW stays and a new front office is brought in.

    • BobbyK says:

      If you don’t have a long-term QB, the rebuild is a lot longer than that unless you’re banking of buying the needle in the haystack lottery ticket. Say you get a solid roster after two years but don’t have your QB, it really doesn’t matter. By the time you get that QB you are going to have solid guys with expiring contracts who want to get paid and the salary cap will screw over the roster you’ve built.

      But if you get your QB but he’s young, you’ve got growing pains to waste the solid roster you’ve built and it’s almost pointless. I’ve said many times, there are only 2 teams in the NFL:

      1. Has a QB.
      2. Want a QB.

      Unless you’re banking on having an exceptional roster to cover up crap at QB, you’re just screwed for a lot of years. Occasionally, you can find a bum like Case Keenum to get you to the conference championship game, but winning it all with a bum like that is highly unusual. Everything has to line up right (good QB play added to good roster).

      • God of Thunder says:

        We’ll said.

        Suppose we pass on this QB weak draft and wait for the following one, there will still be a year or two period where the new QB finds his feet, as it were. As you say, growing pains.

        Rob’s made a good case for a swift rebuild a’la the Packers but obviously that means RW stays. Fine with me, as long as the FO is replaced.

  36. cha says:

    Very telling in the postgame interviews RE the Russ sack that pushed them back before the missed FG.

    PC said Russ has to throw that away. Can’t make that mistake.

    Russ said we were moving the ball well and the risk/reward says it’s a good chance to keep the play alive and go for a TD.

    Just another evidence they’re not aligned.

    • STTBM says:

      Wow, not a peep from anyone about Mike Solaris fabulous Online allowing an injury depleted defensive line to repeatedly stampede through nearly unblocked on many pass plays, such as this one?!

    • icb12 says:

      Is Russ just freelancing? Is his situational awareness that crappy? Does he have a god complex and think he can save every single situation?
      That’s a boneheaded response. The risk/reward was most definitely NOT there. And that’s obvious.

      That’s not only piss poor alignment, but absolute Bs justification for an absolutely shit play from a franchise type QB. Russ has never been able to own his faults and mistakes. His personality has always rubbed me wrong. But when he screws up and won’t just own it-. It’s infuriating. My 5 and 4 yo know better.

      Russ is the guy who farts in the ski tram and then says well I don’t think it was me, but the windows were open and we were almost at the top, so we should all agree it was a good time for a shart.

      • Rowdy says:

        This is all I’ve heard from russ since last year and it’s bubbing me the wrong way too. After the titans game when Pete said russ should of helped out and checked down but russ replied he rather run plays that win, I check out on russ after that. I seriously wonder now if everything people blame Pete for on offense is actually on russ and Pete just covered for him in years past. Check downs would of definitely won the titans game I understand people saying you can’t get someone better and that’s true but I see russ as someone good enough to keep his job but not good enough to take you somewhere. The problem is he hasn’t been good enough to keep his job the last year and a half. What it will take to win with russ and his limitations, I’m not sure russ will be willing to do partly because he seems to think his limitations are actually strengths.

    • BobbyK says:

      That’s just so stupid of Russ. In some situations I may agree with him, but not there. Not when you know you have a crappy kicker and a (close) FG pretty much sews up the game and Win. If it was the 3rd quarter and we were facing a high scoring offense – then I’d agree with Russ to a degree. Just such stupid situational analysis and awareness of RW on that play. Not only that but the stupidity and arrogance not to know that they’d have probably won the game by going up 2 scores there.

    • James Z says:

      Pete was right and RW was wrong. Pete told it like it was, for a change, and RW went into his ‘happy thought’ dungeon and pulled a rabbit-cliche straight out of his ass.

    • Poli says:

      8 min to go in a 7 point game. I agree with Wilson, going for the TD is worth risking moving back a few yards. 33 yarder to a 39 yarder.

    • Big Mike says:

      Pete was right, Russ was wrong and a good NFL kicker still makes the FG. Myers is washed.

  37. cha says:

    Larry Stone with some great writing here.

    https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/even-the-snow-cant-hide-the-depths-to-which-the-seahawks-have-fallen/

    The entire Seattle season has had an “end of an era” vibe to it, but this game felt definitive There’s little question that major changes in personnel, philosophy and leadership must take place. The only question remaining is the will of the people in charge to acknowledge that reality.

    Otherwise, we’ll have to get used to what Sunday represented: a game that had absolutely no playoff ramifications and was essentially meaningless, once you get past the intrinsic measuring stick of pride.

  38. Spencer says:

    I surmise now, after multiple seasons of the same thing, that what we have here is a team with a surprising amount of depth and quality players, but not enough great/elite players, and a coaching staff that is two steps behind and floundering. Tell me that I’m right, or tell me how I’m wrong.

    Penny…would you bring him back? For me, I’d bring him back only on basically a minimum deal. If anyone wants to pay him real money, be my guest. But his potential is enough for me to want to at least have him on the roster.

    Bobby…definitely not worth what he’ll be making. I saw him looking slow and old today. Before you cut him, you say, “Bobby, you’ve been the heart and soul of this defense for years and we owe you a lot, but we can’t justify your current contract, therefore, to keep you here and a Seahawk for life, we’ll offer you $__ million for _ year(s). Fill in the blank.

    Does DK want to come back?Maybe he does a wait and see what happens with the franchise. If I’m him, I’m tempted not to sign any extension from this current regime because…this game wasn’t an outlier. They, or Russell, or Waldron, or whoever CANNOT utilize him at all. If I’m a rising star, I wouldn’t want to be hitched to this crappy old wagon.

    Big Mike commented on this, but I’d like to hear more opinions, especially Rob’s- Doug Pederson? What were his warts? I remember him being a good coach saddled with what turned out to be a pretty bad quarterback in an even worse city. I’d like to hear that he interviews with the Seahawks at least.

    O-Line? Who do you keep?

    • Hawkcrazy says:

      Can’t replace everyone at once although we all may want to. I would keep Lewis and Forsythe … maybe Brown on a much much cheaper deal. Pocic is gone… shell well I would keep him for a cheap deal only. Jake Curan will be a good backup if he doesn’t start in the future. It looks bleak but cant be worse than that we are seeing now.

    • Chris says:

      “surprising amount of depth and quality players,”

      Even writing off injuries etc this year, here’s what I think are the top 10 current Seahawks, with a Y/N as to whether most NFL teams would trade for them or start them:

      1. Russ – Ye
      2. Lockett – Ye
      3. Poona – Ye
      4. Bwagz – No
      5. Diggs – Ye
      6. Dickson – No (people don’t trade for punters…)
      7. DK – Ye
      8. Taylor – Ye
      9.

      Hell, I couldn’t even make it to 10 without feeling like I was just filling in slots. This team is washed of talent, there’s no middle-class, just a bunch of replacement level players. Sad result of 8 years of poor drafts, trades, and general player acquisition/retention failure.

  39. MychestisBeastmode says:

    2022 Seahawks Starting’ish Roster (not projecting potential new rookie or outside players)

    QB: Probably not RW
    RB: Carson (health permitting), maybe Penny
    WR: Lockett, DK, D’ Esk
    TE: Dissly, Colby, Probably not Everett
    LT: Maybe Brown, possibly Forsythe
    RT: Maybe Curhan, not Shell
    LG: … Damien Jackson (wish he’d play his natural position)
    RG:… Gabe Jackson
    C: Not anyone on the roster

    Def:
    DE: Taylor, Dunlap
    DT: Poona, maybe Mone
    MLB: Brooks, not Wagner
    OLB’s: Not on roster
    SS: the worst trade/extension maybe ever in NFL
    FS: I hope Diggs likes Seattle, but gut says he’s gone unless Franchised, or Blair
    CB: Tre Brown, possibly but feels unlikely Sydney or DJ Reed.

    Best young core:
    Darrel Taylor, Jordyn Brooks, Tre Brown, Damien Lewis, DK

    Could seriously help the rebuild if they can be serviceable starters:
    Forsythe, Curhan, D Eskridge at WR3, Colby/Dissly?

    The players who deserve to be re-signed:
    Diggs

    Wildcards that could be good or bad or other if re-signed:
    Penny, Green, Everett, Sydney

    Final verdict:
    Even with an optimist outlook, this group leaves a lot to be desired. Unless we find a QB who can bandaid over the numerous holes (assuming RW is traded), this will be a rough few years before we may begin thinking of sniffing prominence once more.

    Side note: I feel like Penny could be phenomenal behind an elite Oline, a la what Shawn Alexander enjoyed (within reason as I understand having a HoF LT/LG combo is rare). If we keep him, we have to go hard on Oline if we hope to maximize Penny’s and this offense’s ground game (assuming next year’s coaching staff, be it PC or other, value running game anywhere similar to status quo).

    • Mike says:

      I was thinking the same thing with the Penny looking like Shaun alexander comment!
      They both have the same size and speed combo. Unfortunately it seems like penny is kinda soft like Shaun was too.

      • God of Thunder says:

        We will need a stable of RBs if it’s Penny and Carson, given their injuries (and the nature of the game now).

        That’s okay with me.

  40. Denver Hawker says:

    Probably heresy: I’m happy they lost.

    I hope they lose the rest of the season. I hope fans stop watching. There should be no where to hide, no silver lining. Ownership must have their hand forced to make real change.

    I suspect there are still fans who think this “is just one bad season” or “Russ has played hurt” or worse yet “would have won if Adams wasn’t inured”. Those voices need to be limited to only a few. Casual fans need to tune out for there to be real change.

    • BobbyK says:

      The pain of the loss would be easier to take if we had our No. 1 pick. Sigh.

    • cha says:

      I have never been on Team “we have to win to push the Jets pick down”. What’s done is done.

      I think, properly applied, it would work as an object lesson to the franchise for a decade or more, to never do something so stupid again.

  41. WallaSean says:

    Anyone who has tickets to the Lions game needs to show up with a paper bag on their head, half of the crowd would be acceptable.

    • BobbyK says:

      Or just don’t go. Enough empty seats can send an even better message.

      • Rowdy says:

        I really don’t want to be looked at like California teams that only show up when they win.

        • Group captain mandrake says:

          Everyone calls us bandwagon fans anyway (like we cornered the market on that). If I had season tickets, I’d go or give them to someone. But there’s no way I would buy a ticket to watch that game. Losing is one thing, but paying a lot of money (tickets, parking, food) to be bored is another. If you want people to show up you have to give them a reason to.

  42. BobbyK says:

    Anyone know how to find out the following two questions:

    1. How many 3-and-outs have the Seahawks had on offense this year in comparison to the rest of the league?

    2. How many 10 or 12+ play drives have the Seahawks defense given up this year in comparison to everyone else?

    • cha says:

      Specifically, no but Team Rankings always has some interesting looks.

      Offense: #32 in the NFL in most plays per game
      https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/plays-per-game

      • cha says:

        Defense: #32 in the NFL in least plays per game
        https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-plays-per-game

        • BobbyK says:

          Thank you.

          Basically, it’s like we know: The offense sucks at sustaining any drives and the defense sucks at getting off the field. You have to have a pretty terrible roster to be league “leaders” like this.

          The defense has exceeded my expectations this year, which is good, but today is a good example of why they suck. They give up 25 points, but on another drive they gave up 0 points from the opposing offense (on a Bears team that sucks) but allowed 17 yards on that said drive.

          But then they’re paired up with a guy like Wilson who can go 3-and-out like a World Champion. Such a terrible roster combination.

        • Elmer says:

          I really have to wonder if Wilson’s trade value has significantly diminished. Right?

          • Peter says:

            Diminished how so?

            If bang average Stafford who in three more seasons has a horrible td to int ratio and was never able to lift his team up is worth two first round picks how would Wilson be less than that at a minimum?

            • BobbyK says:

              Yet the best offer the Seahawks got for Wilson last offseason was simply 3 1st round picks. One at about 19 overall and the other two future picks.

              • Peter says:

                Still. Three greater than two. If you think russ is cooked than you do that deal. 19 overall.

                Then if he sucks each pick following is a top ten.

                But you fold on that deal if you think you’re getting 19, followed by middle 20’s.

                And. If they don’t make that trade and then take less this year….yet another fireable offense.

                • Stephen Walker says:

                  How’s it fireable if you get less this year ?
                  Pete believed in Russ and didn’t want to trade him
                  If we get offered less this year it’s all on Russ and his poor play this year and his delusion he is better than he is

                  • Peter says:

                    If you don’t know how to set or expect markets and in this case Russ’ market then what are you doing as a GM? Exactly? That is the totality of your job. Not scouting. In this case not hiring coaches. Instead just anticipating markets. Predicting value.

                    I get it you don’t like Wilson. But if you think having the worst rushing attack, the bottom five sacks, bottom five TO’s, bottom time of possesion (and before you say ‘but russ’ remind yorself Seattle’s defense is near the bottom on stopping third downs) most yards given up and just let a 10 point lead evaporate yesterday….is…..

                    All on russ…. I can’t help you there.

                    “His delusion?” I’m not getting what you are saying. Again if you don’t like russ just say it. It’s your opinion.

                • Sunjay says:

                  He is saying that Russ is mediocre and thinks hes better. Rodgers compained when they had subpar seasons. He got his coach fired and look now. People want to keep dismissing his finger but it is a huge thing. Then there are the receivers who are good not great. Certainly not great at separation. Forget the oline. As for mobility Im at a loss there because his elders Rodgers and even Brady run for short gains. Russ just refuses to and he has the legs. Almost as though he is checked out. New coach new oc new oline and then lets see.

        • WallaSean says:

          Both stats correlate to PC’s philosophy. How many conservative 3rd down calls did we fail to convert on offense, just to keep the game close to make plays at the end of the game, that we fail to convert on? How many times did the Defense play to keep things in front of them to allow for a big play that changes momentum, but never actually happens? This philosophy does not fit this team, it is probably obsolete in general.

    • TJ says:

      The significant imbalance in time of possession is one way to measure both of your questions. Seattle’s T.O.P. has been horrendous this year. The offense hasn’t been able to stay on the field, the defense hasn’t been able to get off their field.

  43. Mick says:

    There’s no way we keep Wagner on 20 mil after this game. And if we had some sort of solution, I’d even consider cutting Myers right now.

    Otherwise, I know how emotions in sports go, but I was quite disappointed by Bruce Irvin. You won a Super Bowl here, have some decency. Jimmy Graham had more class.

  44. Seahawk_Dan says:

    Rob,

    You mentioned after the Rams game, in the discussion, how boring the Seahawks are and how you need to find the energy to watch them, there’s nothing there.

    I can easily say I’m there. I watched them religiously for two decades, but this season has been special for all the wrong reasons. I didn’t notice how bad it was (my viewership) until today, when I was just made aware they played at all. I found out when looking up meme videos on TikTok, not even from catching up on sports news.

  45. Pugs1 says:

    I can’t disagree with any of what you guys had to say, but I think we are going to have to ride out these next two weeks. It feels like change is coming. I’ve been supporting keeping JS and letting Pete go and letting him build the team in his vision but I could easily get behind Ed Dodds. On a positive note Sidney Jones IV has been playing pretty good IMO maybe they found a decent CB but that’s all I got.

  46. Pran says:

    Russ putting it on Myers, Pete putting it on Russ… show is about to end!
    Russ got to go too.. Foles played confident and better than Russ..shame

  47. ElroyNumbers says:

    We have made playoffs 9 out of last 10 years. Fans here are spoiled.
    Keep Carroll but release him from gm powers he has.
    Keep Schneider but hire scot mcghoulan. Allow him to work from home drunk.
    Trade Russell to giants for their 2 first round picks,
    Take the guard from Bama and the center from Iowa.
    Strength of team is then elite guards and center.
    Trade for minshew to be game manager on running and defense team.
    Cut Wagner and move adams to weakside lb where he will be great fit.

    • Rob Staton says:

      We have made playoffs 9 out of last 10 years. Fans here are spoiled.

      No, we are not.

      This really is one of the worst points you can make. It’s an immediate tell that you’ve not read or listened to any of the arguments made by anyone.

      It’s akin to me saying I want Carroll fired because I don’t like how he chews his gum.

      We don’t debate like this here.

      • ElroyNumbers says:

        Rob – I have read every post for approx last 4 or 5 years.
        My perspective is different. I have been hawks fan since 1992.
        Hawks just being competitive is big deal to me.

        • Rob Staton says:

          Then you need to simply do a better job with your comments then.

          Because ignoring all the arguments made for ‘you’re all spoilt’ is one of the weakest points I see made.

    • Mick says:

      You can miss the playoffs without looking completely clueless like we do. The team has no plan and fails to win games that should be easy to get. It’s on Pete.

      Trade Russ and spend the next 3 years trying 3 QBs per season. The right thing is to give him a solid Oline, a decent RB and a creative OC, not to trade him.

      I’m in for trading Wagner but Adams is a terrible fit at LB, he’d spend every year injured. Oh well, actually…

      • Cysco says:

        There isn’t a team in the league that would trade for Bobby Wagner unless the Seahawks ate the bulk of his salary next year.

    • Cambs says:

      The situation is closer to the reverse. It’s the fact that they make the playoffs year over year that’s enabled fans as well as leadership to ignore the years-long rot. This team has been eating the seed corn since it drafted Russell Wilson and it’s always been able to point to the playoff berths — which for five years have been spiritless one-and-done playoff berths — to hand-wave every misstep, whether it’s careless clock management in-game or profligate waste of draft capital going back (forget Jamal Adams) to Percy Harvin and Paul Richardson.

      Russ’s talent (and Sherman’s glorious tip) covered that tab for a decade. It’s Pete and John who have been spoiled.

    • God of Thunder says:

      Look at the last two playoff games: Rams and ‘Boys. You cannot tell me this is a franchise on the upswing, with a potential to win several post season games.

      You cannot even tell me this is a competent HC. Those games, especially the Dallas game, were a debacle.

  48. Sea Mode says:

    PC postgame: “I feel like I have to do more.”

    No, Pete, you need to do less. A lot less…

    • Ashish says:

      Or Pete you have done enough..

      • God of Thunder says:

        How about this?: “Pete, you are a Seahawks legend. We will always remember you. You gave us truly memorable teams, as well as a defence (LOB) for the ages, and won a SB in devastating fashion. Please enjoy all the (many) plaudits that are your due, and enjoy a long and happy retirement.”

        What I don’t want to say, but which should still be obvious: “Pete, the game has passed you by. Whether it’s in-game decisions or trades or roster building, the proof is incontrovertible. In truth, you and JS should probably have won at least another SB..”

    • Peter says:

      This is low key madenning. Pete speak has always been hard to deal with but now with two more completely pointless games….i’m not rooting for losses but am at least looking towards in a soft draft high second and third round picks regardless of what shakes out…..as my dad would say: “it’s better than a sharp stick in the eye.”

  49. Sneekes says:

    In some ways this may be the game we needed. The one that pushes ownership over the edge.
    We need a compete replacement of the coaching staff.
    I am leaning more and more towards wanting to trade Russ (I worry he never gets back to where he was), but there are scenarios where it makes sense (ie: you can get Payton is you retain Russ)
    A swift turnaround is possible: There is no dominant NFL team, pretty good is probably good enough right now, and we could get there: Smart draft picks, smart free agency and some tough decision making could (only could) get us there in 2022. Things would have to fall right but it’s possible, and even if not, its sets you up for 2023.

  50. Cysco says:

    The truth is that this team has won regular season games over the last many years by the seat of their pants. They had some elite talent and a good deal of luck on their side but the games were always chaotic and stressful to watch. So many close games, so many come from behinds, so many games where they played down to the talent level of the opponent.

    Pete’s teams are simply not well coached. Now, the talent is not there. You’ve got a poorly coached team that can’t rely on a handful of superior players to will them to victory. This is a situation years in the making.

    I’ve often argued over the years that Pete isn’t a good football coach, but rather a great collector and motivator of talent. He has lost that skill. Change needs to happen.

    • Gary says:

      “Pete’s teams are simply not well coached. Now, the talent is not there. You’ve got a poorly coached team that can’t rely on a handful of superior players to will them to victory. This is a situation years in the making.

      I’ve often argued over the years that Pete isn’t a good football coach, but rather a great collector and motivator of talent. He has lost that skill. Change needs to happen.“

      Amen and amen! Best comment I’ve read on here and could not agree more with this.

  51. Blitzy the Clown says:

    Mike Holmgren once did a farewell lap of honour after a snow-game against the Jets in 2008. Carroll should’ve had his today, too.

    No, Pete’s saving that for next week after the home loss to the Lions. Because some folk just gotta do it their way.

    Also, it’s rather poetic that a team whose HC’s core philosophy is to hang around in games and poach a win in the final minutes let one of the worst teams in the NFL hang around and poach the win from them in the final minutes.

    • Peter says:

      Well said.

      Btw. When did this become how Seattle played? 2015? 2016?

      Just did a look back on some game logs and Seattle used to hang middle high thirties and have two, three score advantages on teams. Not every game but a whole lot more than now.

    • God of Thunder says:

      Lol, well put. Ironic and sadly true.

  52. Spencer says:

    I think we’re seeing evidence that Wilson is out. It went from “his finger is just as good NAY BETTER than ever” to “yeah my finger isn’t right still”. This tells me both he and the team are mutually parting ways and they’re trying to buoy up his trade value. Then rumors/news that there definitely won’t be an extension it’s to let teams know that he is to be had

  53. Tim Scollard says:

    In REALITY this team is not in a rebuild position. IF the QB and wideouts/TE’s stay in place that is potentially the best, most explosive passing unit in the league. And could be historic. The running game likewise is a beast on paper with Deejay and Homer at the BOTTOM of the rotation. Maximizing the running game is about personnel management and adding one good OG from Free Agency. But again an elite squad. Maybe try a wishbone! LOL. The O-Line is terrible. Obviously Schneider’s fault. Defense…(sigh). Who KNOWS what’s going on with L.J. Collier. That is possibly the worst indicator of poor management in the front office. But Rasheem Greene is getting more explosive and Carlos Dunlap may have another good year to build around. LB’s. Jordyn Brooks is a superior player. And next year I believe we’ll witness that. However after 2yrs we have to say the draft pick was too high. LB’s get a grade of C+. The DB’s are a joke, which is sad as they are historically the soul of good Hawks teams. Jamal Adams was a mistake (Schneider again) in terms of value lost. Pretty sure he’s a toxic locker room guy, but we’re stuck with him. I would not fire Carroll after one year of under-performing players. Russell Wilson made MANY uncharacteristic errors this year. Like mind-blowing misses. And on many occasions the Defense was in position to make a play and missed it. This team is not ready for a rebuild. Not yet. Trade Bobby Wagner(!) for some big pieces (OG, DE) and let the Russell show go one more year.

    • Rob Staton says:

      There’s more chance of me winning Miss World than Seattle trading Wagner.

      His cap hit is $20m and despite what a lot of people think, his play has dropped off big time. He is hesitant, he is avoiding contact way too often. It’s not good.

      He should be cut.

      • cha says:

        Even the biggest Wagner fans are starting to see it.

        Paul Silvi and Walter Jones after the game pointed out he should have made tackles to prevent first downs and didn’t.

        • pdway says:

          he looked really slow yesterday. maybe it was the conditions, but everyone was playing in them. it’s been a great run, but can’t responsibly keep him at the salary next year.

        • Rob Staton says:

          Slowly but surely people are getting there

          Weeks after we did

        • Rob4q says:

          There was a play when Bears had 3rd & long, Foles got pressure and slid to his left and there was a wide open receiver out in the flat with only Wagner anywhere around. In the past, Bobby would have raced up and thumped that dude to the ground well short of the sticks. Instead, he froze and waited for the receiver to make a move (think it was a TE?) and then ended up being dragged 4 yards past the first down marker!?! What was that?!?

          Bobby has been one of the best Seahawks ever, will go into the HOF one day and Seahawks Ring of Honor. But it’s time for him to retire, which is what I hope he does. I don’t want to see him in another uniform and I certainly don’t want to see him hesitate out on the field like that…

          • JimQ says:

            The # of total tackles for Wagner are nice & high, BUT –the yards given up– before the tackle are also very, very HIGH. “Reaction” rather than “aggressive” pursuit is now evident. His age is showing. If he is playing for the Seahawks next season, it’ll likely be for substantially reduced pay. However, his veteran status would have SOME value for next year in mentoring the new LB crew.

            Trading Wagner would seem to require a vast portion of his next year pay would have to be paid by the Seahawks just to be rid of him and that may offset any day-3 picks received. Sign low, retire or get cut may be his only options. He’s had a great career & Wagner to the “Ring of honor” is a given.

            All good things eventually end & that is unfortunately where the Seahawks are right now.

      • pdway says:

        Need to see swimsuit competition pics to appropriately assess this comment.

      • Whit21 says:

        Thats something dave wyman was talking about last thursday on 710.. he was asking for cody barton to get playing time at middle lb and other backups to get more playing time to see what you have going into this offseason…

        But ofcoarse they both are telling fans to pump the breaks on PC or RW to be moved on from..

        I dont like their take sometimes.. they want to make fun of the seahawk twitterverse which i get.. but they say… oh PC is now too old again and russell is too short…

        Which is both true… russell cant complete passes up the middle.. hes going into the flats way too much and thats what doomed the last possession where u only needed a FG to win.. couldnt get tyler or swain on 3 attempts…

      • Tim says:

        Bobby is tradeable with one year left. To a smart office.

  54. Sean says:

    After the game, Pete again said “I don’t even recognize games like this.” I find that really curious. After having seen the Seahawks this year vs. Pittsburgh, NO, Washington, and the Packers, he should be recognizing a pattern. Or how about losses to crappy teams last year, some of them with backup QBs?

    I just do not understand this style of “leadership”. It just seems to be total denial, well beyond the point of optimism. Sure – lose a game or two like this, and you can tell the troops that it is just uncharacteristic, that they are actually better than this. But after this happening over and over and over, you cannot fool them. I’ve coached nine-year-olds in soccer, and after a couple games of getting their butts kicked by other unimpressive teams, you cannot convince them that they’re actually really good but it just unlucky…even they are too smart for that. And you don’t win them over by lying.

    • CD says:

      What else can he say? I like reading comments like his as it tells me that he knows he has to come up with something to buy time, or deflect why it has come to this.

      I can see a lot of people smacking themselves on the forehead in a few weeks when Pete says “its time for someone else to lead a rebuild’. Everyone then will say – I saw it coming, of course he was going to leave.

      What he is saying is the precursor to a 70 year old’s retirement announcement.

      I really hope I am right on this one.

  55. cha says:

    Pete Carroll Show on 710 with Mike Salk

    [q] How are you feeling? “Found some perspective going back to the game and figuring out where we couldn’t find our shot. Last night amazed where we couldn’t quite get our spots. We’ve been a great finishing team for a long time. Five close games we could’ve won and we got nothing.”

    [q] What did you see when you rewatched? “Let the game start to get away. Should’ve converted, should’ve not taken the sack. Snowballed on us in the fourth quarter. That’s why I’m so out of my body about it, this is not the way we’ve played. We’ve coached that way.”

    [q] Your comments on RW sack vs Russ’ not similar? “Both things true at the same time. Don’t have opp right off the bat, can kick the FG and move on. Russ been more successful than he hasn’t in those situation. That’s what he’s telling you – ‘I’m playing the game.’ Over the years, times we wouldn’t have been as good if he doesn’t hold it and look for a play. Russ been able to navigate through. As a coach, you have to give and take with people you play with. Fans can second-guess all the want, but he’s telling you he’s made extraordinary plays for years. Live by the sword, die by the sword.”

    [q] Russ’ season not as familiar? “Hasn’t been the same. You’re seeing what you’re seeing, trying to figure out why. Admirably going about it. I don’t think it’s that complicated. Russ does not feel like he’s hurt. Participates and practices. Results and accuracy different. Factor we don’t have control of, wish we did. Doing everything he can possibly do. Results aren’t what we want, be on topics like this. I know you want to resolve this, answer isn’t that obvious and clear, just have to deal with it.”

    [q] Is it the new offensive system? Right system? “I don’t think that is the issue at all. Grown system years of work together. Shane marvelous job incorporating stuff from past, new things to make sure we’re more complete. Shane can make a call here or there, but that’s not a factor. Gotta finish when we get chances. Didn’t do it in kicking game either. Weather factor. Usually goes in our favor. Did not happen yesterday, caused by conditions.”

    [q] Rashaad Penny shown? “Terrific. Shown explosiveness, toughness, consistency there. Not every run was a big run, fight for yards at times. Fought off guys and has explosion. Similar to a couple weeks ago. Really exciting.”

    [q] How did he turn it around? “Adrian Peterson showing up. Saw things differently watching him practice. Can’t tell you there are that many things look different, talking to him influenced him. Only practiced one week. Amazing impact.”

    [q] 5-10, no playoffs, sense how this year different? “Yeah I do. What’s different is change with QB situation, Geno played after not playing for years, great. Just the time missed. Other side, improving throughout, but continue to play games where we don’t control the ball enough. Third downs. Struggled yesterday, gave up frickin game. Clear how it’s worked out. Not as explosive and efficient on third downs. Same patter that’s been happening. Penny adds dynamics to running game. See patterns, end of it, not finishing well. Hallmark of our play, now going in wrong direction. I gotta get it done.”

    [q] Specific regrets this year? “I don’t feel any. Russ not back too soon. I wouldn’t changed that at all. Hoped we’d play well around him, and we didn’t.”

    [q] Talent level of team compared to competitor? “Very optimistic going into season. Like what we’ve done with OL, guys done fine. Run blocking consistent. Look around division, Cardinals a lot of star players. Rams loaded as well. Niners have a lot of firepower. Looking at our club, like every aspect of what we have, as it turns out, why NFCW is best division in football. Talent is there. Like what we got, admire what they got. Balanced out.”

    [q] Future of Seahawks? “Address it when we get out of season. Young players growing. Complement those with others. Significant difference with Carlos, pass rush is a big, big issue. Hasn’t been formidable enough. Not getting to QBs enough. STarts with rush. Continue to be improved. I think that’s obvious. Darrell’s doing a nice job. Green is coming. Somebody has to provide that for us. Get that thing going.”

    [q] 2021 Aberration? Confident? “Yeah, got to bring in players who can help us. Russ, gotta see how he bounces back, he certainly will be great again. Build around those factors. Plusses generate. Contracts, free agents, we’ll figure out later. Not the time to assess that now. A lot of positives, a lot of plusses. Not for any reason do I think we need to restart this whole thing. Need to support it better. Foundation for doing things. Players bring every week, belief something special in them, not changing.”

    [q] Change philosophy for last 2 games? “No play to win.”

    [q] CB position? “Will be good going forward w playmakers. Can’t wait to get DJ Reed back. Sidney’s good, Tre Brown, excited.”

    [q] PI call on Reid? “Could have gone either way. Incidental. Not even argued it if call made other direction. Tried to get out of the way, goes both ways. Much less contact than Tuesday 4th Q game”

    [q] Are officials being tested for COVID ? (cha ed – what???)

    [q] Sorry about the game coach.

    • Rob4q says:

      The last part of this right here Is not what I want to hear from Pete when the ship is sinking:

      [q] 2021 Aberration? Confident? “Yeah, got to bring in players who can help us. Russ, gotta see how he bounces back, he certainly will be great again. Build around those factors. Plusses generate. Contracts, free agents, we’ll figure out later. Not the time to assess that now. A lot of positives, a lot of plusses. Not for any reason do I think we need to restart this whole thing. Need to support it better. Foundation for doing things. Players bring every week, belief something special in them, not changing.”

    • Sean says:

      The comment about Adrian Peterson is both weird and striking. If Pete attributes the Rashaad Penny 4th-year breakout to watching and talking to Adrian Peterson for a week, what does that tell us about the motivational skills of Pete and his coaches?

      • Rob Staton says:

        The whole interview was a perfect example of why change is needed

      • cha says:

        The majority of fans realize that drafting Penny was a mistake.

        However, I don’t think everyone understands the depth of the mistake. It is not as simple as ‘they picked Penny, when they could have picked Chubb.’ It’s actually a clump of mistakes that have been made:

        1. They drafted Penny over Chubb due to his health profile. This doesn’t need to be rehashed, but Chubb was the better pick and had recovered from a knee injury and played in the rugged SEC, Penny was playing in a far less tough conference and did not have the same record of sustained success.

        2. They clearly tried to mold Penny into a ‘healthy Nick Chubb’ – a tough, between the tackles bruiser who finishes runs with contact. That is not where his strengths lie. And yet, even after 3+ years of ill health and trips to the trainer’s room after even the most sparse success, all they can talk about is praising how he’s finally grasped the fact and is running tough.

        3. Their draft vetting process was absolute garbage. Penny admitted he had to quit eating fast food so much and get in shape a year into his rookie season. How did they whiff so bad on that? Walter Jones brought it up again last night after the game – was he just rehashing old news, or was this still a problem?

        And now, apparently 5 days with Adrian Peterson has turned his whole professional outlook around. Where are the coaches as Sean says? Where was that big training camp story about Chris Carson taking Penny under his wing and not viewing him as a rival two seasons ago? This is clearly a talented player that does not have the maturity to get his head on straight. It appears he has needed several ‘come to Jesus’ moments in order to even get on the field and have a semblance of success.

        4. Given all that, they still tried to build their RB room around Penny and Chris Carson, two of the most injury-prone RBs around, and again tried to reinforce that they’re committed to the running game. They passed on Jonathan Taylor for a linebacker.

        Will they go 5 for 5 and resign him? Somebody needs to wrestle the checkbook away from Pete on this one.

        • Roy Batty says:

          “Somebody needs to wrestle the checkbook away from Pete on this one.”

          Therein lies one of my worst fears if the coaching staff and GM are not pushed out the door very soon: They will continue to make poor contract decisions before leaving.

          If Allen has already made up her mind and wants a change, then I hope she has let it be known that any and all contract negotiations are to be reviewed by her team before they are initiated. Complete oversight. Hell, maybe that has already been instituted and we will hear about it, if ever, after the purge.

    • ShowMeYourHawk says:

      This doesn’t sound like a man that’s ready to walk away, even if he should. Granted, it’s not like he was going to say, “well, that’s it for me.”

      Any chance he permits himself to be traded to Jacksonville, where his “rah-rah, leader of young men” schtick could be moderately effective, once again? If he led that team to 6-7 wins for the next few years, he’d be the toast of the town….

    • Blitzy the Clown says:

      Over the years, times we wouldn’t have been as good if [Wilson] doesn’t hold it and look for a play…Live by the sword, die by the sword.”

      And I’m ok with that. How many times has Wilson held onto the ball too long…only to pull a magic rabbit out of his proverbial hat?

      Shane marvelous job incorporating stuff from past, new things to make sure we’re more complete…Shane can make a call here or there, but that’s not a factor…Gotta finish when we get chances. Didn’t do it in kicking game either. Weather factor. Usually goes in our favor. Did not happen yesterday, caused by conditions.

      This isn’t the first time Carroll has let it slip that Waldron wasn’t brought in because of his vision for a Wilson QB’d offense, but rather to work Pete’s vision. Some fans look at the parade of OCs over the years and the problems that persist throughout and see proof of Wilson’s perceived (and real) shortcomings. I look at it and see proof of Carroll’s insistence on running a dogmatically rigid and extremely uncreative scheme that requires almost unique players at key positions. I mean, there’s no need to get fancy with it if your RB is a HOF candidate and one of the most physically punishing runners in League history.

      Oh, and no, it usually doesn’t “go in our favor”; it hasn’t gone in our favor all season and well into last. And weather? Really? Of course it’s the weather’s fault. Lousy Smarch weather.

      …not finishing well. Hallmark of our play, now going in wrong direction.

      Apparently, finishing well became so much of a hallmark and focus for Pete that he forgot about starting well. Or playing well consistently for an entire game. Or, playing well at all.

      Future of Seahawks? “Address it when we get out of season

      Hey cha (or anyone else who listened), did you get a sense of what Salk meant by the future? Was he talking about personnel only? I know that’s how Pete answered it, and I expect nothing different. Just wondering how the question was posed.

    • Hawkdawg says:

      These are the words of a coach who does not want to entertain the remotest possibility that he won’t be back. As if he can simply talk that into being true.

      Which is absolutely true to form.

  56. Rob Staton says:

    Wagner PFF vs Chicago

    46.8

    Another terrible grade

    • Big Mike says:

      No surprise. Eye test said the same

    • BobbyK says:

      He’s clearly not worth a $20M cap hit moving forward, but I wonder what he’s worth? $8M/year? Would he take that? Would anyone else give him more? Other teams know this isn’t a 29-year old stud anymore. Father time is undefeated except for against Tom Brady who must have beat the devil playing fiddle in Georgia or something.

      • Rob Staton says:

        Just time to move on. Get younger and cheaper at LB

      • Big Mike says:

        Love the “beat the devil in Georgia” Bobby. I’ve been trying to figure out why Brady hasn’t lost to time yet and there it is, clear as day.

        • Stephen Walker says:

          It feels time to move on from the two biggest contracts on the team
          Both are captains and sadly both failing to lead

        • Peter says:

          Beating the devil in georgia sounds more realistic then when Brady tried to tell everyone it’s because he doesn’t eat strawberries, tomatoes, and his “cheat dessert,” is avocado ice cream.

          Just fess up brady. Everyone knows it’s a fiddle duel you won.

    • Call Me AL says:

      But he did play better than Robert Nkemdiche: 44.4 and Ugo Amadi: 40.8! And lets not forget he leads the NFL with a combined (solo + assisted) 170 tackles, with 1 sack, 3 TFL, 1 INT, 1 FF and a whopping 166 combined down field tackles!

      Russell Wilson: 49.9, enough said.

      And look who led the team RB Rashaad Penny: 89.8. Hey, is this a contract year?

      • Peter says:

        Penny is the literal embodiment of a guy you don’t give a second contract to. Unless every team passes and it’s really close to the vet minimum. Probably shouldn’t have resigned Carson. He at least ran hard for a while. Penny getting going in a nothing season five games before his rookie contract is up is kind of gross. This the same guy who checked himself out of a game after a singular carry.

        Let some other team pay this procise imposter to ride the pine when you go two thirds of a season with the leagues worst rushing attack.

        • Peter says:

          Before anyone takes up for penny remember this: FOUR good games in four years. Total. It’s not just injuries. Dude has a ton of nothing burger games, not games that were so-so, but absolutely pointless outings for years and years.

          • Sean Gross says:

            I think to be fair, he has had 2 or maybe 3 good games in previous years. But your basic point is right on.

            • Peter says:

              I counted those. He has had two awesome games this year. And two ither awesome games. It would be okay if he was okay. But even this year he has a handful of two, three carry games for a dozen or so yards. It’s the consistency that lacks.

        • Mick says:

          If Pete and JS stay, I’m sure we extend Penny and he goes out with a solid injury in the first 3 games of the season. I’m sorry for him but he’s not consistent and we can’t rely on him.

          • Peter says:

            To dovetail off of cha’s post above and to not beat the chubb/taylor horse to death the team could have rightly picked penny IF they had wanted to run an entirely different philosophy. Maybe employ a true fullback. Better oline. Or a different style of running game. It’s easy to look at his failings but yet again what role does the FO play in making a pick like this?

            It’s like the unnecessary picks of a middle linebacker to have him plsy out of position or the unnecessary swapping sides of olinemeen over the years.

  57. Gary says:

    Rob’s headline: “Seahawks should make changes now.”

    Positive Pete’s take:

    https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1548169/pete-carroll-seahawks-dont-need-to-restart-this-whole-thing/

    I’m having nightmares that no one’s going anywhere and next year will be a re-run of this year. And last.

    • Big Mike says:

      I’m having a worse nightmare, he’s doing it without Wilson and they wasted a bunch of draft picks they got for him on more LJ Colliers, Marquis Blairs, etc. and Jamal Adams blows more coverages while exclaiming to be the greatest thing since the invention of football. Meanwhile, they go 4-13 or maybe 5-12 (still possible this year too….woo hoo!). Then Jody or a new owner FINALLY fires his ass and the new regime is left with practically nothing because Pete and Joh have squandered the picks they got for Russ. Welcome to the 90s Seahawks all over again.

  58. Peter says:

    Thinking about the podcast and Rob’s comments on fans and theirtribalized camps and that I am a fan of dark comedies:

    Been thinking about how it might make me smile to see the best trade offer this year be Cleveland for a 1st, 2nd, and mayfield and then watch Russ play a very basic 25 td to say 6 int season and get the ring with a completely stacked Browns roster. Full to the gills with blog favorites. The AFC north is up for grabs and that team has everything pete says he wants on a team. Maybe PC csn tweet out something like “we got our guy!!” When the jets pick for us.

    • BobbyK says:

      They’ll be tweeting out Jamal Adams highlights. Both of them.

    • Big Mike says:

      If I’m Cleveland I am all over wooing Russ or one of the other quality vet QBs that will come available. They are a QB away.

      By the way, speaking of the Browns Joel Bitonio is a Pro Bowler again. Blog favorite years back. Could’ve had a Pro Bowl G for 15 years if the Hawks would’ve drafted him.

      • Peter says:

        One of their scouts is reading this site -or- Rob is one of their scouts.

        Bitonio, David njoku, chubb, Josh Johnson III ( a 5 year safety I brought up the year seattle whiffed on three safeties in a row.)

        It’s time for that team to go big even if it is for a smallish window.

  59. 12th chuck says:

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  60. BobbyK says:

    Anyone know the cap hit (how we’ll get screwed) by letting the following go:

    Carson

    Dunlap

    Wagner

    Adams (I know it’s bad and I apologize because it’s been written here before, but I can’t remember)

    • cha says:

      Before June 1

      Carson $3m hit / $3.425m savings

      Dunlap $5.6m hit / $900k savings

      Wagner $3.75m hit / $16.6m savings

      Adams $28.4m hit / $19.33m extra cap hit

  61. Gross MaToast says:

    Every day that Pete Carroll doesn’t announce that he’s stepping down adds fuel to my concern that Jody is going to look at this as a one-off aberration and bring the gang back next season for another run.

    The ideal time for Pete to leave was after 2017. The next best was after the Rams playoff beatdown last season. At this point, any time between now and Jan 10 will do now, preferably sooner.

    But this messaging of, “not for one reason do I think we have to restart this thing,” is nothing but a gigantic FU to people calling for new leadership. It’s a declaration that he’s sitting on a winner and this was just a season of bad luck and underperformance.

    It is not.

    Let’s list the things Pete has done well for the last few seasons:

    1 – moved up to take DK Metcalf.
    2 – passed on trading RW to the Bears
    3 –

    Someone else will have to take it from here on the good because I’m blanking.

    The poor to god-awful include drafts, free agent signings, trades, in-game management issues, coach hiring, roster building and accountability. I’ve bundled some things for brevity.

    A well-run franchise would have trotted his ass out to the podium this morning to announce that this season is it. What a run, jacked to finish on a high, can’t thank you all enough, yada, yada…

    But I’m officially worried that Pete ain’t going nowhere.

    • BA says:

      Yeah this offseason will tell us a lot, but I’m likewise worried that Pete might dig his heels in and stay unless someone explicitly says no. He’s always been incredibly proud and he’s always treated the fanbase and media with a healthy dose of disdain (as if we should be honored we get to watch this poor display of football every week), and it’s that same attitude that makes me worried he’ll stick around.

  62. Geoff says:

    Can you make a podcast with you and Michael Shawn Duggar? You two seem like two of the most in the know and opinionated (good or bad) in the Seahawks media circuit. It would make for a very entertaining podcast filled with lots of in-depth analysis and what is going on and what needs to change.