If ever there was a game to make you realise an era is ending, this was it.
A total and utter capitulation, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory against a beatable Rams team. An injured quarterback. A 2-3 record that feels like it could get worse before it gets better. The game beginning with Fox revisiting (and re-fuelling) the Russell Wilson trade saga.
A game in 2017 against the LA Rams felt like the end for the LOB. This latest defeat feels like it’s the beginning of the end for Pete Carroll.
It’s quite a long wait until the end of the season and this could get more painful along the way, despite Geno Smith’s fun cameo tonight.
It just feels increasingly like a franchise that has gone stale. The Seahawks need revitalising in a way major change at the top can only provide.
Nothing summed up quite how bad things are than a second-half sequence that almost had to be seen to be believed.
— A clearly struggling Stafford, with an injured finger, is misfiring all over the field. He throws up an ugly duck of a throw. Who knows what Sidney Jones is doing in coverage? Yet the ball floats in the air. Jamal Adams cannot track the ball and it’s caught by the receiver, somehow, who runs after the catch for an enormous gain. Shortly after, the Rams score a rushing touchdown.
— On Seattle’s next drive, Aaron Donald pressures Russell Wilson and appears to dislocate or break his finger. Despite starting at the 40-yard line due to the kick-off going out of bounds, Seattle gives the ball back to the Rams quickly.
— The next drive is a saunter downfield for the Rams. It starts with Jamal Adams hitting team-mate Jordyn Brooks as he tries to make the tackle. Then Adams whiffs on a Darrell Henderson run. Then Adams is picked-on in coverage against Tyler Higbee, giving up a touchdown.
Seattle went from leading 7-3 and being somewhat in control, to the game completely melting away.
And the big investment. The huge trade that will define Seattle’s reset along with numerous botched high picks, played a big part in it all.
Now the Seahawks are 2-3. They look to be a bottom-half team in the NFL who will struggle to make the playoffs. Wilson appears set to miss games for the first time in his career due to the finger issue.
It’s not good.
Right before the game started, Fox ran this segment discussing Wilson’s future in Seattle:
Note former team mate Greg Olsen and Jay Glazer — arguably the most trusted breaker of news in the business — both openly validating the reported issues between quarterback and organisation and touting the likelihood of another saga next off-season.
Glazer outright dismissed the sentiment uttered by Wilson and Carroll that things ‘were blown out of proportion’. Olsen made reference to the philosophical differences between team and player and noted Wilson’s concern about his legacy.
A game like this only compounds matters.
Wilson called for better protection in the off-season and spoke with an urgency to get back to deep playoff runs. Now he’s injured and on a bad 2-3 team.
The franchise has a major short-term problem and a major long-term problem.
Short-term, they just aren’t very good. They are a hugely inconsistent team. At times the offense and defense excels. Then at other times, they look truly horrendous. They jump between the two quarter-to-quarter.
For example, look at the way the defense played for stretches tonight. They got some stops. They restricted and limited the Rams to three points in the first half. And yet they gave up 20 easy points after half-time and 476 total yards — adding to the league-worst 1778 yards they’d already given up coming into the game. They had numerous busted coverages and gave up so many easy runs and catches in soft coverages.
From @ESPNStatsInfo: The Seahawks have allowed 450-plus total yards in four straight games, the longest streak in team history and tied for the longest streak in NFL history.
— Brady Henderson (@BradyHenderson) October 8, 2021
The offense is no better. When the big plays are there, everything is rocking. Seattle’s fragility on offense is too often exposed though when the explosives aren’t there.
A very average O-line never dominates a game or asserts itself enough to keep things running smoothly. Wilson has been inconsistent. They have injuries, again, at running back.
Long-term, everything is on the table. Wilson’s future. Pete Carroll’s future. John Schneider’s future. It all needs to be discussed. Is ownership complacent? This looks like a franchise that has lost its way.
Let’s run through what has gone wrong during the reset, which began after the 2017 season. If you want to add your own in the comments, be my guest.
— The Jamal Adams trade alone should be considered a fireable offence. It was a desperate move right before the 2020 season to make up for the total inability to bring in any difference makers during the off-season. Giving up what they did — picks and money. It’s indefensible. Worse still, they seemingly have no idea how to utilise him effectively. With every 2021 loss this trade looks worse and worse. How high will the pick be that they send to the New York Jets? Especially if Wilson misses time? Could it be a top-10 pick if he’s out for a few weeks? There should be a consequence for the people who made this deal.
— They went into the 2018 and 2019 drafts at the start of the reset with three first round picks in total. What did they come away with? Rashaad Penny, L.J. Collier and Marquise Blair.
— They’ve completely botched the cornerback position. It’s been an issue for some time that they’ve failed to address. This year, they finally felt the tipping point of their neglect of the position.
— They’ve invested big resources in the wrong positions. They have spent far too much in the way of picks and money at linebacker and safety.
— The team has lost all sense of identity. They’ve constantly made moves since the reset which contradict the kind of team they claim to want to be.
— They supposedly fixed the O-line this off-season, after a nudge from the quarterback. Gabe Jackson, about to be cut by Las Vegas, was traded for. Kyle Fuller has ended up at center somehow. They neglected to go and land a top free agent such as Jack Conklin a year ago, in favour of spreading their money across Brandon Shell, B.J. Finney and Cedric Ogbuehi. They’ve passed on multiple good center’s in the draft. How has that worked out?
— From Jimmy Graham to Greg Olsen to Gerald Everett to the draft picks they’ve used. Their continued investment at tight end with no clue how to make the most of the players at their disposal has been baffling.
— They’ve switched offensive coordinators but the same problems persist. Consistency, dependency on big plays, a lack of in-game adjustments. Perhaps the quarterback deserves a chunk of the blame? Yet we’ve seen Russell Wilson position himself as a sure-fire Future Hall of Famer for a reason. And while the coordinators change the Head Coach has always remained. The same coach who, when asked to speak positively about the offensive coordinator after the Indianapolis game, chose to praise his willingness to stick with certain things they’ve always done.
— Carroll, fully determined to do things ‘his way’, has way too much misplaced loyalty in what appear to be yes-men coaches and coordinators, including family members. When he was asked who holds him accountable, he referred to Carl ‘Tater’ Smith. Come on.
— Despite all of the denials, including by large swathes of the fan base and media, it’s never been more evident that the franchise QB, in flirting with a trade, was simply reviewing that this is a franchise that has lost its way and he doesn’t want to waste his best years on a team where that’s the case. The reality is we are months away from him being more aggressive in pursuing a trade. Some of you might be prepared for that after a Geno Smith cameo that was fun tonight. Be careful what you wish for at such an important position.
This has been a botched reset and it’s time to acknowledge that Carroll and Schneider have failed in the job they set out to accomplish since 2017. Another reset of sorts is needed and a big decision needs to be made.
This is becoming a stale franchise. It believes in its own hype and is in the process of being humbled. It’s no longer young, fresh, energetic and vibrant. It’s a franchise that feels like it’s not really going anywhere. It’s a make up the numbers team, despite all the spent resource.
Faith in the people running your team is an underrated factor in sports. You’ll overlook the bad days and misjudgements if you believe in the people trying to guide you to the promise land.
I sense Seahawks fans have lost that faith. And with ownership basically a complete mystery — many will be concerned about the future.
The status quo and meandering along won’t be acceptable. Especially if the Seahawks just move themselves out of contention for the playoffs and then with nothing to play for, and all pressure removed, enjoy a late season flourish to create a false dawn.
This current ownership structure and Carroll himself have to be honest with themselves if that happens. They can’t be hoodwinked.
Russell Wilson won’t be back unless there’s change. That’s for sure. So one way or another, something big is happening in 2022.
Carroll’s lustre has waned. It’s been a great run. The best run. But next year will be the time for a new chapter.
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1-3 record?
I mean who remembers that indy game. It feels like a season ago.
Adams likely had his worst game as a football player ever in his entire life tonight.
Adams has had a lot of worse games as a football player in his entire life. It seems he is getting worse not better.
I agree with most of what you say here but the Hawks are 2-3 rather than 1-3
My friends still things Adams is good not utilized better by Norton. Had to explain them. Is that only few see Adams as a bad player?
You can’t deny he was good in NYJ. Not two firsts level (not even close) but better than whatever stuff is happening now
I see what your saying rob.
We need to fire Carl (tater) Smith.
Season fixed.
*thinks
I like Jamal Adams. He’s a blue chip prospect with immense talent. But good lord has he been terrible this year. 2 TD drives solely rest on his shoulders tonight and the coaching staff has absolutely no idea how to utilize his skill set.
Ken Norton has got to go. It’s unbelievable he’s still employed no matter how much this defense is Pete’s. Another 500 yard game. Can’t defend the run, can’t defend the pass, can’t get after the QB, always crushed by screens when he blitzes. Below average DC’s get fired for less. This man has been the DC of an ever worsening D that is THE WORST in the entire NFL.
Norton should have been gone after last season
For what has been given to acquire him, Adams SHOULD be the best defensive player in the NFL.
I agree Ken Norton should have been let go after last year, only the late season resurgence by the defense spared his job. Unfortunately all the same problems still exist this year! He may not have the best talent on this defense, but he’s also not very good at adjustments, creative blitzing, or simply getting the most out of the talent you do have.
It’s maddening how the defense can play so well in stretches and then look completely outclassed in the very same game! The offense deserves some of this blame though, as they don’t routinely sustain drives in order to let the defense rest. Then the defense is on the field for way to many plays every game and look utterly gassed by the fourth quarter.
But as Rob, and others, has pointed out, the Seahawks issues are much more extensive than just Ken Norton. Pete doesn’t seem to understand how winning football in the NFL is played these days. His “philosophy” is outdated and doesn’t work anymore. He needs to go!
John Schneider is probably still a very good GM, but the weird relationship he has with Pete puts him at a real disadvantage. Pete must approve all of the moves John makes, and likely tells John to make certain moves as well (Jamal Adams?)
And to top all this off ownership is a complete wild card! Who knows what’s going on there? If they are lining up to sell the team in the near future, they probably won’t want to make any moves. Just let the new owner do all of that. But at what cost to the team? How long will all of that take?
My faith in this team hasn’t been this low in over 10 years.
Thank you Pete for helping deliver this franchise’s first Super Bowl victory, I will never forget it. However, it’s time to leave with dignity and grace Pete. Stop competing to stay out there, it’s time to hang up the tennis shoes. It’s over Pete, it’s done.
💯
As far as I’m concerned, what could have been a reset has been delayed by 2 years due to the Adams fiasco. Russell my as well leave after this season, it will save the team some money for rebuilding and he can pursue his dreams elsewhere.
The Hawks would incur a $26 mil dead cap hit, pre-6/11 date for 2022 if they trade Wilson. If they designate it as a post-6/11 date, they split the $26 mil between 2022 and 2023. However, they ten miss out on a 2022 1st round pick.
With those numbers in mind, it would be better to dump the coaching staff and bring in an offensive minded coach, like Bieniemy. However, nothing matters when the ownership group is absent on all levels of organizational accountability.
The infuriating thing is that the one position I still trusted Pete/JS to fill is safety. After Earl and Kam, they still found McDougald, Diggs, and Neal. Blair looks fine whenever he gets a shot. So why blow the entire rebuild on a blitzing safety? Why not grab a corner or someone in the trenches? Their mediocre drafting had already ensured the rebuild would fail, but Adams is the cherry on shit sundae.
they have lost their way on defense. the leagues caught up. Norton needs to be fired tomorrow. This defense has some legit talent on it, bring in Marvin Lewis already to sort it out.
But come on, how great was that Dickson punt! Reminded me of an All Blacks rout!
If ever there was a statement that the Seahawks don’t have a clue how to use Adams it has been the first 5 games of this season. Adams has made so many poor plays and very few good plays – no game changing
million safety that you paid 2 first round choices for (plus a third plus a player less a 4th the following year).
Rob I so wished you were wrong but hot damn. Our coaches don’t have any idea of how to use him… when he played for the Jets I thought he was a player on Seattle he has just plain sucked this year.
On another note Dwayne Brown has not looked the same. I wonder if Seahawk management actually knew something when they did not extend them like I had hoped. Notwithstanding that he has not played to his level we still have no one that can replace him next year. As you said Rob a complete reset.
So they have to find a left tackle and a center next year?
and a qb, secondary, o lineman, pass rushers….
All of the D-Line. not just rushers
This is not a playoff team and things could get ugly, but we will also win plenty of road games oddly to keep things interesting. We really need to move on from PC/JS but as we all know, there is no upper management at the moment. Ideally the team is sold to local money who care and they find a way to keep RW. This is a 6-10 team the last 5 years without RW, you dont let a HoF franchise QB walk aged 33….
Geno was interesting tonight, he’s obviously not the answer for Seattle. I just don’t know why Russ is great. He’s a magician. He’s set himself up to be a future hall of famer (as you say Rob). I don’t know that he’d ever lead Seattle to another Super Bowl, with Pete or with a new coach. He’s had many chances and hasn’t ‘led’ the Seahawks there. I compare him to Rodgers. Clearly, Pete is done. His defense is done. It’s been ridiculously bad for years now. It’s a very sad time now for the Seahawks. Washed up players, seemingly no clear plan, plenty of improv to keep us watching though. I’m still not trading Russ unless it’s for some other teams entire draft plus more…
But really, where do you go from here? Schneider’s drafts/trades/signings make me question his ability. Pete is outdated. Russ just wants to throw bombs. And the most important question of all, that doesn’t get asked enough – does Jody Allen really want to own a football team?
I want to blow it up. Everything. I might hate it, it might take 20+ yrs of finding that success again. But this song and dance internal power struggle I so getting old. I’m ready for a new chapter with new characters. I love a handful of players on this team. I’m just done with the entirety of it.
the only problem is a blow up can be 10yrs of utter trash. We need to get thru this with RW , you just cant overstate the value of a legitimate qb in the NFL, only a few teams have them adn they keep 11-6 teams from being 6-11.
Ownership should step in and take RW side and move on from coaching. THe fanbase would be more than fine with it. Wait till seasons over but let RW know now.
Valid, but who is ownership? Who is the leader of the Seahawks? It’s Jody Allen. We talk about Russ, and Pete – but we need to talk about the actual leader of this franchise – what is Jody going to do?
She’s going to focus on things that matter to her, like always.
Blowing up in the sense of seismic change. Whole staff, whole new direction, purge roster, something big. Keep qb is a 2 way street. Plus keeping qb means him handpicking his coach basically. I’m just down with any big new direction.
Dave, Schneider is an interesting topic, Carroll has final say over draft picks, signings and trades, so how many times has he over ruled Schneider to get what he wants.
We all need to remember if it wasn’t for Schneider Russell Wilson wouldn’t be a Seahawk. Schneider can find talent, so if paired with a coach who actually listens to him maybe he can help turn things around faster than a complete overhaul.
Great point. And that makes me revisit my point. Who is the check on Pete? To me, it was always Paul Allen. Now? I wonder if Jody is involved.
Well said Rob. Adams would be a sensation in rotation at a third of the money and with decent CBs. I feel more strongly about the draft whiffs. Consistently picking against the grain and against expectation is fine if it works, OK now and again, but unforgivable if it consistently misses. What do they say about the definition of stupidity? Eskridge is a fine player but a luxury pick we could not afford. Look at T Brown compared to the guys you projected around him, who are functional CB starters in other teams. This was a great draft for O-line and CBs but we whiffed on both. Also, was it just me or did the short to intermediate, high-tempo game look better with Geno driving? Can’t believe I wrote that. Keep up the great work.
I was hollering for Geno, to be totally honest. I was stoked for him. Just too bad it ended up ugly.
Im glad he shanked it, or whatever you wanna call it. Had he lead a comeback the stress of the Gino to start chants would have been disasterous. One problem area we do not have is QB.
correction, Im never glad we lose, but it would have been an added distraction to an already tense and volatile situation.
looking for a silver lining here folks…. Dont hate.
True, I wasn’t rooting for the Geno takeover, just the fact that he got his chance and threw down when he could.
The pick play was a trainwreck unfortunately.
But it’s just gratifying to see a man get his chance, after being a big hype guy to go to backup status.
It made me remember why I love football and all the chance variations and things that can happen.
Any given down/day
Doesn’t excuse how bad everything else was.
I wouldn’t say he shanked it. That could have been PI as easy as Browns Holding on the TD at the end of the 2nd QTR
I wanted to see him do it to actually put that pressure on rw. Tired of rw playing out of scheme. If he truly wants to get better, show a backup qb can play the scheme better.
fair point. Woulda been a great story, but also a mess….
Can’t say I’ve ever read an article I agree with more Rob anywhere, ever! I just finished watching the game and the same things were running through my head. You’ve noted and been prescient about all these things time after time. (By the way if anyone really feels the need to vomit, watch Adams on the two plays after they gave up the sixty-eight yarder).
I’m done with the Seahawks. Thanks to Rob and the rest of the contributors (particularly CBA) you’ve made it a much more enjoyable, interested, richer experience with your insights.
Nice write up, Rob-grimly, starkly frank, but completely called for and well done.
Now, bearing in mind that I was apprehensive enough to turn down an offer to watch the game from a friend’s house (it played at 7:30 a.m. our time) and that I have yet to watch even NFL highlifhts, I want to float a trial balloon, with attendant caveats: judging solely from ESPN GameDay (scant evidence, I realize), it seemed that Geno’s initial surge of success seemed to be rooted in his willingness to follow Waldron’s offensive blueprint to a T.
Is there anything to this? Also, can anybody envision that there could actually be an in-season change at the top? Seems rather unlikely, and Rob, I endorse your suggestion that they will probably win enough road games to keep things muddled, while still managing to miss the playoffs.
Hang in there 12’s. Sadly, it feels like things needn’t have come to this, but in reality it’s probably been unwinding since that fateful gaol line pass that imploded the L.O.B.
the problem RW has with following any playbook to a T is hes short, he bounced a random slant off ADs head tonight, that will happen every time he follows the playbook simply because he cant make that play due to height. 20 of the playbook is gone when you have a short qb who cant turn and hit slants all day for short yards. Now, RW makes up for that with being one of the best deep ball passers in NFL history adn his ability to create so you take one for antoher, but the idea of following a system to a T just doesnt work if you want RW as your QB……….UNLESS, you devise an offensive system around him, which we dont! Why doesnt he run more, by design?
Its clear PC and RW just dont see eye to eye on how to play football, something has to change and I argue we keep RW.
I dunno. Those slants to DK he throws look very pretty, and those aren’t “deep balls…”
It’s puzzling because Wilson’s QB Rating has been great this year. But he really hasn’t been as consistent as his numbers suggest. Yes he makes the occasional inside slant play or screen pass but it is not consistent. Yes he is a good scrambler and has to be with this offensive line but he also screws up and runs backwards and refuses to throw the ball away. Mostly he just doesn’t seem to get the ball out quickly. There wouldn’t be so much pass pressure if he fired that ball out quickly on timing plays.
I think we all overstate how much his height affects him. Brees is far from a giant, but could make every throw. I personally think it’s hubris or ego. Russ often looks for the big play and gives up on the scheme. He relies on his belief that he can make magic more times than fail. This is not to say he’s not the most talented QB we’ve had, but there are flaws being exposed. Yesterday was a good lesson in contrasts. We saw an average QB step in and stay on script and picked apart the defense, highlighting how good the offensive play design actually is. We also saw an extraordinary QB hold the ball too long and take unnecessary sacks, miss open receivers looking for the target he wanted, and other mistakes. Russ gets enormous benefit of the doubt. We assume that no one is open when he holds the ball too long. Unfortunately, the all-22 tells a different tale. He either misses the read or looks past it, in order to try to hit the bigger play. It’s all fixable, but I don’t think anyone is allowed to or willing to be critical of him. They don’t want the backlash from fans.
you knew it was going to be this kinda night when on that 2nd possession they ran on 3rd and 4th down for -2 yards instead of taking points early in a home game. Immediately after that stop I was well aware we were in for another night that would end with a post like this….
Just makes you think, what if they would have put apart bullshit and let Marshawn Lynch take over the team. Not just from the two yard line, but as a team going forward in the future. What could have happened.
I didn’t have high hopes of us winning this game so we played better than I expected and even had a chance to win with our backup QB. Having said that, the Rams were not great tonight and Stafford was clearly off his game and yet we still let him pass for over 370 yds. I have no idea how to fix our defense. We have some good players on it but our zones are so soft and why are there still blown coverages each game? I hated the Jamal Adams trade because no strong safety is ever worth 2 first round picks and a 3rd. I kept hoping to see a great player and even last year, he thought he played ok but not amazing. This year, with no injury, he’s been a confused hot mess. I saw him get blocked easily by a TE on an attempted blitz, blocked easily on a running play, burned easily by Higbee on that TD pass, and then of course just stand there and watch a long pass float in to be caught by DeSean Jackson. The only silver lining is that hopefully, more of the fan base finally open their eyes and realize what a terrible trade it was and that it was so stupid for them to then give him the extension. Geno looked a lot better than I expected in relief but I suspect that’s mostly due to the Rams not being prepared for him at all. I don’t blame him for the interception at the end. It was a bad break that Lockett fell as he was throwing the pass. But I also fear that if opponents have time to scheme for him, he’ll show us why he’s been a career backup. I don’t know what’s going to happen but my hope is that if the Seahawks flail the rest of the season with an injured Wilson that Pete retires or is fired so that we can see what Russ can do under a different coaching staff and front office.
Well said as usual Rob, as a fan I wish I could disagree but its clear the end of this era is nigh. There’s a chance to be 5-3 with Pitt, NO, and Jax up next, though without Russ that’s not happening and even with him I’m hardly convinced the Hawks are better than any of those teams right now. Most importantly, this is clearly not a playoff caliber team. The defense is truly embarrassing and second half adjustments are something only the opponent does.
We can only hope the ownership has what it takes to make the drastic changes needed to right this leaky rudderless ship…
…i just can’t anymore!…every single week the opponent makes adjustments at halftime and we stand pat with same vanilla zone defensive schemes…is it any wonder we lose the possession battle every week when our defense literally INVITES the opposition to pick us apart in the short-to-intermediate middle of the field, with our DBs ten yards off the line of scrimmage, and our overpaid safety freelancing it seems most of the time, all so we DON’T GET BEAT DEEP, which we do once or twice a game with astounding regularity, anyway? …for fuck’s sake, how about a different look now and then? a little man press coverage at the line of scrimmage, something!…this is on pete and russ…pete, along with being a miserable in-game manager, is a fucking dinosaur! bart fucking starr? are you kidding me?…and russ just doesn’t process all that well, i’m sorry, he’s a freak athletically, and he throws a beautiful deep ball, but for god’s sake, i’m so tired of watching him gloss over his check downs and scramble around looking for the fifty yard strike! you know why tom brady wins? because he takes what the defense gives him! after ten years of watching russ, i’m convinced he’s just not that adept seeing the field, anticipating routes, and making decisions…look how geno, a journeymen who has seen practically zero game action the past four years managed to move the chains…isn’t the definition of insanity repeating the same actions and expecting different results? well, that’s where we’ve been for about seven seasons… i made it through jack fucking patera without giving up, but i honestly don’t know how much longer i can watch pete’s subterfuge…every damn week we get out-coached, out-adjusted, and out-executed…
The organization needs to side with said franchise QB and hire a head coach he believes in.
Then it needs to weather the storm in 2022 by doing the best it can with its players and minor free agent acquisitions. If that means they finish 6-11, so be it. I don’t care. Be done with applying band-aids to major wounds. Worry about long-term well being.
Don’t worry about using all cap space. Have some to roll over to create more down the road.
Trade what draft picks to move down in the draft to acquire extra picks in 2023 and 2024. Set themselves up to get young/hungry again starting with the 2023 season. After all, Willson will still be young enough to QB the team surrounded by talented youth and calculated veteran additions. Not a bunch of veterans with a few youngsters because they don’t have enough picks (or crappy young players).
Trade Jamal Adams for whatever the hell they can get for him. If only a 2nd round pick in 2023 then so be it (even with a cap hit – get the cocky non-difference maker out). Maybe they have a Josh Wilson they can deal for a future 5th round pick. Do what needs to be done to sacrifice 2022 for the sake of having a long-term vision of getting the cap situated, adding draft picks, etc.
I’m sick of stale. They need a fresh new round of young talent coming in. Guys with a chip on their shoulders who haven’t signed their second contracts yet. They need more of them, not just a few here and there.
At least we have a good punter.
Wilson is not staying on the team if they decide to punt on 2022 season.
They need to hope PC is gone and put their resources in the right places.
Make the correct hires to fit the players they have.
A rebuild you are proposing will be also watching Wilson requesting a trade.
In regards to Adams, I can’t see us getting a 2nd.
Maybe a really dumb question but could Jamal play linebacker instead? He’s got some talent & speed but looks lost in his position now. Maybe he’s too small? Trying to think outside the box here in order to retrieve some value.
That guy is total trash trying to shred blocks. It’d even be WORSE at LB if you can believe it. Such a worthless trade.
We can’t even look forward to the draft making us better because we’re so outnumbered by most other teams that have more and better lottery tickets than we do.
They played 3 safeties Pete’s first year I think. What if Jamal was a “nickel linebacker” with Neal and Diggs deep. He can play downhill and in the box. But that would take a creative DC.
I just said good bye to my guests from my Seahawks dinner party. I haven’t even read Rob’s missive yet. I just had to say one thing before I can come to my senses…
This loss was almost entirely on RW. Period. End of story.
Thank God! Geno Smith came in after RW’s injury and served as a clear juxtaposition for what RW is clearly lacking in his ability as a QB. Geno Smith did on those two scoring drives what I have been screaming for RW and our offense to do for some time now. Move the chains. Take the check downs. Take the short stuff, the screen passes, the quick slants. Think of first downs like touchdowns.
RW completely whiffed this game. He kept refusing to take what the defense gave him. How many times during this game did I say “if you had told me the Rams would only have this many points at this point in the game before the game started, I would have taken it.” I think 4-5 times
Horrible offensive performance. Horrible performance by RW.
(Now that I’ve got that off my chest, I will read Rob’s post and the other responses.)
Did you only watch the game when the offense was on the field?
How many points did the Rams have at half time? We should have been in control of the game by then if our offense could have done anything. The Rams were practically begging us to score.
True, but do watch the defense do a tissue paper imitation for almost all of the second half before you reach an informed conclusion.
Hint: It’s not just the offense, and on the offense is not just Wilson.
The defense was NEVER going to be what made us successful this year. The Rams had only 9 points well into the 3rd quarter. That was an effing gift to our offense. We should have been well in control of the game by then.
Agree with you on Geno vs. Russ; it was telling to see the short, quick passing game work. Not sure if that’s because the Rams were playing Geno soft or not. I am sure I never see Russell move the team downfield 5-15 yards at a time. It always seems feast-or-famine and slightly gimmicky with Russell.
What a mess the poor Hawks are in. At least I now have 4 more hours of free time each week.
Probably get blown up for this, but is Pete Carroll even that good of a coach? As a motivator, a big brother, maybe even a psychologist…he’s tremendous. We all know and appreciate this. But as an X and Os, innovative, adaptable, savvy coach?
He’s been successful two places; USC and Seattle. Both times his team was the bully on the block, at least for the successful parts. Once his guys were matched in physicality and athleticism, it was the beginning of the end. Geesh, even with one of the all time great defenses (LOB), how many of our wins came down to a last drive stand or a miraculous Russ drive the length of the field?
Maybe this sounds harsh or a bit defeatist, but dang…I’m tired of watching his jaw hang open in befuddlement as his defense gives up wide open play after play and his offense comes alive only when the plays break down.
He’s a good coach in the general sense. He’s a good motivator and understands culture, and that’s important. He’s also been around a long time and seen a lot, and that matters in the NFl.
But he can’t, as the old saying goes, “can take his’n and beat your’n, or take your’n and beat his’n”.
One problem the Seahawks have right now, among many, is that they probably have the worst coach in the division. Not only has the game probably passed him by, but he doesn’t seem able to realize it.
I prefer peacock…
https://twitter.com/dickfain/status/1446330636675928064
For the first couple of games, you could see teams mildly scheming around Adams blitzing. The Rams exploited him, they exposed him as the true weak spot that he is.
Things will go south from this day on.
They attacked him
It’s now not even that he isn’t having an impact. He’s starting to be a liability
Gee, what a surprise, Aaron Donald destroyed our OL and injured our QB. Russ has all reasons to be mad with the way his OL looks like. And the Adams deal has turned into such a bad joke… Something big needs to change. But this season seems lost to me.
This franchise is in deep shit.
yes it is
Or looking on the bright side maybe this franchise is at the opportune point of change
There’s no evidence of leadership to make that happen, sadly. The only scenario I can see is if JS has the ear of ownership and can convince them to boot PC. Not likely.
Don’t forget his other accountability partner was his son lol.
Remove a 6 game stretch last year that gifted them multiple backup quarterbacks and even a third stringer or two and this is one of the worst defenses ever and one they has gotten worse every single year. Olsen pre game alluded to it not mattering who’s calling plays because Pete has his hand in the offense was also another blow to why this team is in trouble. Pete needs to go and if not this team is going to nosedive and it may be too late already. They don’t have the ammunition to rebuild, your quarterback has lost faith and your coach is 70 and said things like he couldn’t play Neal because it wasn’t a part of the pregame plan for him or dime while the rams could of thrown for 500 if stafford didn’t misfire on so many.
At this point, the Hawks are staring into the abyss. The road that led here has been well documented by Rob for the past couple of years. Pete looked wrecked post-game. He knows.
He had a great six-year run. I looked forward to every game and have so many great memories from that time. Thanks, Pete.
But, it can also be argued that he has damaged this franchise in trying to recapture the magic of 2013. Rob has well-documented the growing wreckage for the past several years. Post-Paul Allen, Pete, arguably, had more control of this franchise than any other person in the league had over theirs. It was not good for the franchise. “He’s open-minded enough to do things that we’ve done in the past,” was a ten ton boulder of a statement that crushed any hope that Shane Waldron was brought in to do anything new, or different, as well as Pete’s understanding of “open-minded.”
Who knows what the process for selecting the next head coach and GM will be, but it really shouldn’t involve Pete or any of his people. I’d like to see Joe Brady, Nathaniel Hackett, Lincoln Riley, Brian Daboll, or even Shanahan (if he’s fired) get a look. I have a growing, gnawing dread of ‘Head Coach KNJr.’
I look forward to the coming series of articles on potential head coaches and GMs that may rekindle a small spark of hope for the future. It’s the best part of a wasted season.
If you like black comedy, go back through the game and watch #33 on every play. It’s stunning. If I put a wind-up toy in the defensive backfield, it would have had roughly the same impact.
call it a hunch or a fantasy, but I’ve thought for a long time that former UW Coach Chris Petersen had his eye on the Seahawks job. He’s a more innovative and up to date coach than Pete and I think would mesh well with Russell.
Maybe it’s crazy to go with a coach with no NFL HC experience at this stage with Russ, but I can’t shake the feeling that I’ve had for a few years that this is gonna happen.
Ha! I give the odds of Chris Petersen becoming the next Hawks HC the same as a snowball’s chance in hell.
Admittedly not likely. However, we share the same employer. The talk is he wants in the NFL.
Where did this talk originate? I’m not sure he even wants to coach anymore. Coach Peterson is cut from a different cloth. He has always been a mentor, developer-of-young-men-type coach. I can’t see him getting involved with the hornet’s nest business of the NFL with its highly-paid, entitled athletes.
Now that I’ve calmed down a bit…JA was AWFUL tonight. Where was he in the box to put the hit on their RB’s? But there was that one play, late in the game, that play that stuck out in my mind like a Christmas tree in July, that pass play down the middle of the field, that back-breaking play that kept their drive alive and put us one foot in the grave. It was pathetic. I don’t know what to say? Wow. The guy’s got horrible coverage instincts and technique.
I was expecting a loss going into this but man the way they lossed really stings. The opportunities were there to pull out a win they just didn’t capitalize. A bizzare game but I was really rooting for Geno to pull off a comeback.
This loss definitely falls more on the defense though. They had moments in the first half but they also benefited from Stafford missing quite a few open guys. Again they lost the battle of halftime adjustments, further proving the need for a change at DC. Jamal is playing like a below avg safety. If Pete is gonna bench Brooks to teach him a lesson then Adams should b benched after a performance like that. How much worse could Ryan Neal or Blair be in that position? Lotta games left obviously so I hope they can find some solutions. With some suspect offenses coming in the next 3 games I hope everyone doesn’t get false hope if the defense does slightly better.
About to open a tall one, play some playstation and listen to the reaction podcast to blow off some steam.
But I thought I would put this out there and you can tell me if I’m crazy.
Did it seem like the offence just worked better with Geno? What I mean is, he was hitting the throws in this system that Goff used to be able to. The underneath stuff and an effective screen for crying out loud.
Do we all need to start being honest about Mr Unlimited’s very real limitations?
Also these trades…
LA got Ramsey to shut down one side of the field.
Buffalo got Diggs to be that go to ace wr for their emerging QB (who we should have made the run at in 2018)
Even hapless Houston got their LT to protect their then superstar qb.
These teams all had plans and each of those trades were successful.
How can we have given up what we did for someone with no real role or plan of how to be used.
If this was Office Space, we’d be saying, “So Jamal. What would you say you do here?” (and not he doesnt deal with the customers.)
Yet another misfit in a string of big bad trades where we acquire a player at great cost who doesn’t match the value.
Hit me up on PSN. Gamer tag: Mr Kim
Forgive me, I’m kind of old. I don’t have a PlayStation network I’m just working my way through assassin‘s creed Valhalla.
I agree with you about RW. I’m a big fan of RW’s and all that he’s done for us. But tonight presented the perfect juxtaposition to highlight RW’s failure to evolve and adapt his game to his aging body and the needs of the team.
Geno, a far less talented QB than RW, was able to do what RW couldn’t tonight or previously. He was able to take what the defense gave him, and in so doing successfully move the chains and the ball methodically down the field. OMG! We have a TE! OMG! We can thrown a counter screen pass that has the defense off balance. OMG! We can hit a quick slant in the middle of the field for a modest yet productive gain.
RW is as stubborn as PC. Yeah, I said it. I wouldn’t have said so before, but after tonight, it deserves to be said. He just won’t evolve, adapt his skills to the realities of his aging physique and diminishing athletic abilities. It’s pretty damn obvious to me now.
Geno did all the shit that Russ doesn’t tend to do. Geno sucks compared to Russ, but he illustrated what happens when the QB plays a system and not the position.
This is the other issue going on with the Seahawks, Russ isn’t capable of playing in a system, and he is convinced that he is. So every time he fails he’s going to think it’s the system.
Yes Geno was able to move the ball better, but the Rams also changed their Defense knowing the Seahawks needed 2 scores. Plus it wasn’t like the Seahawks Defense was stopping the Rams.
Geno wasn’t facing the same defensive scheme as Wilson was.
So you can’t really compare the two.
That being said, I don’t want to take away from what Geno did.
He came in and did all you could hope for under the circumstances.
I do think Waldron can take some of the things that worked with Geno and incorporate it into Wilson’s game though.
However, anyone thinking Geno gives us a better chance to win than Wilson is crazy.
Yes Wilson needs to adapt and be better, but he’s still one of the top QBs in the league.
I would love to see Wilson with a True offensive minded coach, before making any decisions on our future without him.
First several years for the Carroll era, I would make sure to keep my schedule completely clear so I could watch each and every single minute of every game. I couldn’t be bothered to watch tonight’s game because I more invested in playing Sekiro while listening to a podcast, and I reckon next week I’ll be playing Dragon Quest instead of watching.
Adam’s feels like the Jim McIlvane for the Seahawks. The signing that let the fans know that we jumped the shark and should start collecting memorabilia because it all collapses soon. An epic collapse would almost be easier than this dishonest slow bleed. I’m afraid to bring this up because it is definitely going too far… but what does Jodie even want? To sell the team in due time. We have seen disinterested owners in Seattle before. A franchise collapsing with an owner who doesn’t care but will pretend to (Howard Schultz). A rabid fan base ignored by local Government officials? Praying they learned their lesson with the Sonics. Hawks also almost moved south once when we had the worst owner in the league. Who do we have now? I’m just saying that this situation can actually be more dire than “just” a 10 year qb search. Especially if they really start to suck and fans just aren’t showing up.
Anyway, happy Friday everyone!
Sadly true.
Pete should fire Norton already, it’s getting a bit ridiculous at this point. It can’t hurt.
Genuinely curious to see Geno run Waldron’s offense.
I’m not saying he’s better than Wilson, I just want to see certain things like, how is the O-Line looking with Geno, are the TEs being targeted more with Geno? That sort of thing.
Would’ve been cool if we had Darnold or a Jordan Love to plug in.
Just as the offense has never truly evolved with different offensive coordinators, the defense will always play the way that Pete wants. The personnel changes but the concepts are the same.
We use a lot of cover 3 ‘buzz’ & ‘sky’ and it gets obliterated.
Cover 1 also won’t work for us, as good as Diggs can be, our corners are sus and the single high safety will be exposed by two interior receivers running vertically.
We can’t generate enough pressure to make up for the lack of covering ability. If I bought the Seahawks, I would clean house of the coaching staff. I would hire Joe Brady as the head coach, bring in a Patriots linebacker coach to be a defensive coordinator and keep John Schneider for a year to see how he could do with less restraints. If JS doesn’t work out, maybe Dorsey or someone from the Ravens.
So, 2022, the future…
– Duane Brown clearly not top notch anymore
– the rest of the OL (bar Damien L if played RG) is absolute and utter crap
– DK Metcalf to be paid
– Russell Wilson in dire need for a reinvention of his game; his 30+ points games are getting scarcer
– The receiving corps only two guys deep in reality
– A TE corps that is a healthy scratch, which is because it lacks quality (Gerald Everett was already done in LA)
– A running game that is in utter shambles
– No secondary apart from Diggs and occasionally Reed to talk about
– A LB corps with BWagz getting long in the tooth, Brooks tackling but only after huge gains, and what exactly outside of those?
– a DL that outside of Darrell Taylor absolutely underwhelms
– No depth, no youth movement, not pissed for greatness
– No draft picks, and the rest of them will be gone after the trade deadline
That about sums it up
I’m not so sure about the Oline, tbh. I know the Rams backed off a bit once RW was injured, but Geno seemed to have time enough to make his reads & get the ball out. Not saying it ain’t true, but just thinking that this is something that maybe needs looking into a bit more.
Easier for them when the Rams back off in preservation mode
Yep, I get that. I tend to follow the ball when I am watching, so I’m not great at assessing what is going on in the trenches, but my recollection was that the Rams came after him pretty hard initially, when he was on his own 2 yard line, but backed off after Geno burned them for 98 yards & a TD & showed that he could hurt them. But I’m willing to be schooled on this one! 🙂
I was there chanting for Geno, it was fun, something I haven’t been able to say for a while at a hawks game.
I think their D-line still went hard, AD is still AD, but I think their secondary backed off giving more cushion to the receivers, so Geno was able to get the ball out quicker to a wider variety of targets.
Rams likely were willing to let Geno beat himself by throwing, which ultimately he did- even if Lockett doesn’t fall down on the interception, Geno was throwing to a heavily covered part of the field.
Long road ahead….
The scary part is that you might be being a little optimistic. You forgot to include the coaching issues. This team is a mess.
The truly sad thing is, most of us saw it coming before the season started.
As far as I’m concerned, Shane Waldron hasn’t made a damn bit of difference for our offense. What I had hoped to see from our offense, I’ve hardly seen at all. I see almost no schematic difference whatsoever. I don’t see a different RW at all, a different passing game at all.
I don’t know what’s going on there. All I know is what I see on the field. It ain’t much creative. It ain’t much using the full array of our weapons. It ain’t much good at putting together sustained drives.
Bleh.
Part of me wonders how much of this is down to the offensive coordinator though. Pete clearly has input into the offensive game plan, and I can’t help but feel we’ve seen a clear pattern across all Seahawks offenses under his tenure with a heavy reliance on the running game and ‘explosive’ plays, leading to very much a ‘boom’ or ‘bust’ type outcome.
There’s also the concern of whether this is as a result of Russell and his desire to play heroball a little too often, which can often derail drives when he takes a long sack.
Last night in two drives Geno Smith showed that you can have an effective short passing game that involves more players and is more diverse regardless of who the OC is. I witnessed it. I haven’t been able to since RW arrived. He’s never missed a game and hardly missed a play.
Easier to have a short passing game when the other team has changed to more of a prevent style defense.
With the lead and our defense disappearing, the Rams switched up the defense.
Geno did a great job coming in under the circumstances. I’m also guessing the play calling on offense changed a bit as well, the Rams were protecting deep and just wanted to eat up clock. They were fine with giving up the short passes.
Geno is what he is, a good veteran backup, but let’s no pretend Wilson is somehow no longer a top QB in this league.
Until PC is gone this team is not going to get better. He’s done amazing things for this franchise, but we need change.
Russ is not a change I’m ready to make.
I’ve watched just about every play RW has made in his career. He just hasn’t evolved as a QB when he’s needed to and had every opportunity to do so. If there is one thing that anyone can say with complete conviction it’s that RW holds the ball too long and refuses to take what the defense gives him.
Because of his age and diminished physical capacities as an athlete, it’s getting to the point where the losses he takes on sacks and his refusal to take short gains is catching up to anything we gain from his big play ability. This has been readily apparent watching the games the past few years.
On the first Rams TB, why is DJ Reed attacking the RB instead of Brooks, who stays in coverage? This is a pattern of bad designed plays in the D already. I’m looking at the Cowboys and I wonder how we would have looked with Dan Quinn at DC. Anyways KNJ needs to go.
The defense is as badly designed and organised as I can ever remember
It’s real Peter Principle stuff. It’s been obvious for a long time that Norton, while an okay linebackers coach, is wildly out of his depth as a DC. And due to Carroll’s cronyism he’s been protected for way longer than he should have been.
I think that there’s a reason that DC and GB did not come back to Seattle when they had the chance… Pete…
The Adams trade was the icing on the cake for this team. He is not a good player. He may have “skills” but not on this defense…..And the future requires no shades to be worn…..Well maybe a lampshade will be appropriate.
I’ll fondly remember RW for his decade he gave us
I’ll also remember the continuous blunders this front office and coaching staff have made running this team into the ground with their smug little pouting old man coach.
Knowing Aaron Donald wrecks you every game, and with many good college centers on the board they pick Eskridge, and ignored a glaring need, and the results were on full display last night and in all the previous games.
The Peacock has become a buzzard…….His play is as ugly as a buzzard…..I know he makes a million a game but they should sit him for one at least or immediately lick their wounds and get him the fuck OUT of here…..He is a hot bag of trash.
I sincerely hope Wilson is smart enough to go to New Orleans this offseason because I’m very much looking forward to watching him do the things there that he supposedly can’t/won’t here. Sean Payton will coach him properly and run his offense as he did when he had short QB Drew Brees and people will then wonder why Russ didn’t do those things in Seattle. But I’ll know.
Apart from their height Russ and Brees are nothing alike. I’m sure he’d be good there but it wont be some revelation, it’ll just be a HoF qb paired with a top 5 offensive coach.
Better than being on a team with a defensive minded coach; who can’t create a decent defensive scheme to accommodate his Prized Peacock.
Russ in New Orleans seems like it would be a quicker path to another Championship contending team. It sure isn’t here with PC at the helm.
Two rows down from me at the game, a guy was wearing a home blue #33 Tedric Thompson jersey.
Never thought I’d miss that guy but here we are.
At least TT’s suckage wasn’t so damned expensive…
I imagine a scenario when Russ calls a press conference tomorrow, says that this is what he’s been complaining about in summer, and announces that he’s sitting out the season unless he gets traded before the deadline. I wouldn’t be happy but I’d fully understand him.
The entire spectacle is depressing, and even more so because we’ve all been able to see it coming. Really is better to burn out than slowly slide off a cliff. Years of cronyism, nepotism, and wildly incompetent list and draft management are finally starting to catch up. Real shame it’s had to come to this.
Get through this year as best you can then pack it all in, tap Joe Lombardi on the shoulder now, or put a big enough war chest together to drag Lincoln Reily or similar up. Let them pick their GM and get to work. It’s not that hard, and it can turn around incredibly quickly.
Scouts need to be turfed, almost the entire coaching staff can go, it’s just a sloppy, incompetent, organisation being held together by sticky tape
PC talks about tell the truth Monday. I’m not sure he has told the truth in years. What does the film tell us about JA? Yet PC covers for him. Players in the locker room know BS when they see and hear it. How can PC preach the crap he does when he doesn’t even follow it himself? Wasn’t that part of the issue the LOB had with Russ? Didn’t they feel like he was given special treatment and protected by Pete? The difference then was the team was good and winning. Losing the way they are will only speed up the incoming implosion.
The coaching brain drain from the glory years is an issue that doesn’t get talked about enough. Instead of going out looking for the best and the brightest, Carroll brought in his kids, friends, and old players. It’s a ridiculous way of operating, should never have been considered acceptable.
Pete’s post-game press conference was unremarkable to me, except on one question. He bristled when one reporter asked whether, because they were getting chewed up on those intermediate routes, he considered bringing in Ryan Neal on early downs. His response was no, that “that wasn’t in the game plan”.
What a telling response. If you wonder why we are getting creamed in the 2nd half/OT of games (collective score: Opponents 76, Seahawks 44), maybe it’s this. We aren’t adjusting the game plan enough, and our opponents are. It’s like we’re in a horse race, our rivals are looking around for openings, and we’ve got blinders on and either can’t or won’t change course even if there’s something blocking us.
Insufficient talent, coupled with an unwillingness to change course. Plus an injury to Russ. This feels like a losing season and 4th place finish in the division at this point. But hey, we can look forward to taking our 1st player at something like #40 overall.
Rob has been one of the few who has been spot on from the beginning and willing to ask the difficult questions of this franchise. All that is left is for this drama to play out. It’s gonna get ugly. It didn’t have to be this way but you just knew pride was not going to allow them to admit a mistake and trade Jamal Adams last offseason. I will say though, this article is how I felt after the Rams playoff loss last year. That loss felt different because it was different. To me, that was the end of the Carroll era. Now the Carroll era just needs to be put out of its misery.
Here’s my concern. Russell, as Rob points out, is going to want out after this season. If Carroll wants to stay who does ownership side with? Because if you trade Russell, keep Carroll, bring in who the hell knows at QB with our crap o-line, why would you pay DK 20+ million a year at WR? My worst fear is they pay DK an insane amount of money, Bobby walks, they keep Carroll as the coach and the “leaders” of your team are Jamal Adams on defense and DK on offense. If that happens we’re headed for early 90’s Seahawks bad.
Ownership has to side with Russell and Pete has to fall on his sword.
DK won’t stay in Seattle if RW is not here. I feel confident in that.
Why would DK want to stay if Russell leaves?
DK very well may not want to stay. But if they give him an enormous contract because they don’t have a choice that would be a reason to stay. They might do that because they decide they can’t lose both of their star offensive players in the same offseason. And Pete has been trying to band aid this team for three seasons now when it clearly hasn’t been good enough. What’s one more season?
Thank you. Appreciate you noting this
Just watched it, did well to avoid the score and any news before hand. Or maybe not as it would have saved me the pain of it. Not much left to say that hasn’t been already, except I was so stupid not to play Robert Woods last night in my FF league. I genuinely thought the D was going to buckle up. Thanks PC, thanks KNJ.
This is going to be a long season.
Already we’ve seen up an down play from the offense. Don’t know what we’re getting any given game, let alone drive. Wilson has been efficient, but is that great? We need 30pts every game.
Defense is a wreck. I think we’re seeing a rapid decline of Bobby Wagner. Diggs is the only regular playing with his hair on fire. They just look confused. Hard to say if coaching/preparation, scheme, or if the players are just no good (or d. All the above).
There are no easy fixes here- they aren’t just one player away from putting it all together and the future doesn’t look good.
I remember watching the national pre-game show on Fox last night. It was really refreshing to hear them talking about what we’ve been talking about here and known for quite some time, that something is rotten in Denmark, especially as it pertains to PC and RW.
I moved back to western WA in 2017. That’s really when the crash started picking up steam. Correlation = causation. My move caused this so I guess so need to move back to WI. When I was there (2011-2015) we were looking so much better.
Jokes aside I really do worry ownership won’t make any moves which will lead to more of the same from PC. I really think Wilson should be traded but only for him and his legacy. He’s ridden this bomb to the ground as best he could but I have zero confidence anything this franchise does will correct their course. Even with a regime change. They are still spending too much for Jamal Adams and lack picks. Such a disappointing time and future for the team.
Russ hasn’t been playing well but it’s hard to lay blame on him (or Geno, if he ends having to carry this carcass of a team) because the roster and coaching staff is just in such utter shambles. This is looking a lot like the Jim Mora year, with an aging, talent-less roster that doesn’t care. This might be a 5 win team even with a healthy Russ.
https://twitter.com/bcondotta/status/1446491554856669190
“Jamal Adams was the lowest-graded Seahawk last night by Pro Football Focus at 30.0. Rushed only 3 times but again did not have a QB hit or hurry, let alone sack.”
So much grief for criticizing this trade…
…but Rob, PFF makes no sense, and KNJ isn’t utilizing him best, and he’s a leader on D, he’s young, new scheme to learn, did you see him pile on that 1st down tackle?
There will be fans still spouting this
To be fully honest, his tackle on Brooks was something different.
No surprise to me. I can’t remember how many times last night I thought or said “where is he?”
Aside from the bad trade which was draft picks already lost, why the rush to extend him? I understand that Adams was unhappy but so what? This year should have been his prove it year.
just watch how he “finishes” the play on the long pass to Jackson.
He half-asses it… basically gives up. It was awful.
Maybe the history of this era comes down to dumb luck. A head coach who comes straight out of a huge program able to draft players he has a near direct connection to and a gm living in WI who literally watches all the games of the best QB in that draft after Luck….
I know everyone has takes on Wilson and he is by a wide margin the corniest player in maybe all of seattle sports history. But numbers don’t lie and WI had one of the biggest olines while he was there and he could make any and all throws. To me unrelated to Adams (franchise killer) pc and russ created this problem. Infintely goofing around with oline experiments, playing people out of position, dline converts, a half ass zone scheme for an alleged power run dominant offense, while the qb gets drilled more than most qbs. Even if we give half the sacks to Wilson that’s still years of terrible oline play. With a qb frankly arrogantly chasing mvp’s excelling at deep balls and not working the fundamentals being reinforced by “weapon,” WR’s and no real slot after baldwin goes. Plus actually have a few year stretch where if the team wins it us actually because of him.
I dunno maybe it’s time for both to go and the new boss to 86 Adams regardless of price.
I know some of you are trying to find optimism where you can but stats don’t lie and Smith wasn’t good last night. And is literally a career bad QB. Seattle is now super screwed because you may see the TE’s getting the ball but you’ll see a ton of TO’s and lots of incompletions…or..a deep ball guy not able to throw the deep ball….not great.
I agree with much of what you said. But Smith was good last night, or at least markedly better than RW. The first time he got the ball was on the two yard line. What did he do? He marched 98 yards down field for a TD. RW didn’t come close to anything like that in like 7-8 drives. Smith outscored RW on two drives. He totally exposed RW’s flaws for all to see. I don’t know how anyone could have missed this. It was like a sign from heaven that as good as RW is he hasn’t hardly grown at all as a QB for some a few years now in the ways he’s needed to.
And I’m not here to extol the virtues of one Geno Smith. Not by any means. But I know what I saw last night, and what I’ve failed to see from RW for a few years now.
He was what he was. A sub 60 percent completion rate. A td and an int. Less yes than russ.
I’d like to see more than a half to “expose,” Wilson’s flaws. I get from your posts that your down on Wilson at this time but you haven’t seen Wilson march down the field “in years?” Come on….the lob has been dead and gone for ages and yet Russel “can’t make all the throws,” Wilson just got to 100 wins faster than anyone.
Which is in my opinion part of the problem. That he is the only reason why seattle wins and sometimes why they lose. This isn’t basketball where that can work. Carson has had some productive years but there hasn’t been a single player other than Wilson that tilts the field for about 4 seasons
Wilson’s flaws/shortcomings have been exposed to me and many others for a few years now. They’ve been obvious. I like RW. He’s a huge reason for the Hawks continued regular season success the past few years. He’s a likely future HOF QB. Check. Check. Check.
But let’s not pretend that his game hasn’t evolved when it’s needed to now that his athleticism is in decline. That’s just willful ignorance.
Geno Smith just exposed such shortcomings for all to see. He was more effective than RW doing what RW has so far proved to be incapable of now that his athleticism is in decline. He holds onto the ball too long. He takes bad sacks. He doesn’t get the ball out quick to receivers on shorter timing routes and the like. He’s not a ball control, move the chains QB without a stellar RB. Period.
Again all i am saying is a very mediocre half where the defense isn’t planning to play you doesn’t really expose Wilson’s flaws. Perhaps in that situation waldron and PC just gave him the easiest stuff he could work with. Part of the reason Wilson throws bombs is that is actually something PC likes to do.
If smith has a solid game with a good mix of check downs and sustained marches i’ll be intrigued. I think there’s every chance to see a lot more ball control point guard style which might be nice to see, but what happens when the defense flounders? And the run game goes nowhere? Because i think it’s as likely going to show that Wilson isn’t checking down, etc., because he knows the team cant win that way.
Maybe let’s tap the brakes and give it more than one half of average play before we do any anointing. We didn’t even win. We literally made it one play into Geno’s game-saving drive and threw a pick.
Like I get that some fans (reddit and Seahawks.net being full of these types) have been waiting for years for a backup to simply complete a forward pass before launching into the usual tirade about how the Russ era is over but this is a bit too transparent.
“…….and WI had one of the biggest olines while he was there and he could make any and all throws.”
That is absolutely correct. Re-watch SB 48 and you’ll see it. Hell, he hit DK on a slant for a TD vs. the Colts week 1 this year. He can and has done it. While I do think he’s hesitant to throw those balls because of his height, I believe 90% of this issue is Pete Carroll. Between reigning Russ in after a couple of down games last year and demanding Waldron (and Schotty) run things his way meaning shots downfield all the time, he’s hurt Wilson’s “attack mode” in the short and intermediate levels.
I also think that once a player feels they need to “press,” at every opportunity in most sports they start to ditch the basics. This site has been documenting Wilson’s lack of development for what seems like years. The counter to that from the era of “oh he has the lob, lynch, etc…” to now is when is the ladt time anyone other than him take over a game?
I’m not saying i like that at all btw. I just think pc wants a game manager and failed to build a team that could be game managed while having a QB that could for quite some time…like all the way up to game 6 of last year…win more often than lose by going his own way.
Press: 19 questions about Russell Wilson’s finger
PC: I don’t have answers for you
Press: Assessment of Adams’ play?
PC: Rams got lucky on that long throw. Other than that I’m not going to criticize individual players.
Press: Oh, OK.
Press: Hey Quandre Diggs, the defense sucks, how would you fix it?
Diggs: Not my job.
Another classic example of pillow-soft questions for the Director of Football Operations, and reserving the tough-nosed questions for the foot soldier.
Adams isn’t the Sacred Cow, PC is.
Why isn’t the press barbequing the Cow?
I have zero expectations that a good question that’ll be asked today.
I just want to hear a bit of digging and probing to find out what the hell is going on
Somebody try and pin him down on something FGS.
My rebuild plan:
1. Accept that it will take years to rebuild.
2. Start by drafting offensive linemen. Draft a great running back when the opportunity presents itself.
3. Accept that Russell Wilson will not be the quarterback past another couple years and maybe not even be here next year. Look for a future quarterback to develop instead of a backup that won’t threaten Wilsons ego.
4. Defensive rebuilding after offense. They have had plenty of tries at defense and failed miserably. Draft a few cheap defensive players and use them as needed. Accept that you won’t have a defensive stud unless they develop in house or you get a cheap free agent veteran.
5. Go back and work on the offensive line and drafting a star running back.
That’s it for the next two years.
None of this will matter if PC is still in charge. You could give PC the best players, and he’d still get out-coached. He can’t make any adjustments outside of the initial gameplay. He can’t manage a clock. He can’t hire positional coaches to improve his players.
An effective rebuild starts at the top
1. Replace Pete and hire a more modern coach (probably from the college ranks). Please no retreads.
2. Gut the team of high salary cap players, get the best deals or cut them loose. We’re going to be under .500 for several years, so why keep BWagz etc around?
3. Try to recoup as many draft picks as we can so that we can start getting decent players in 2023 onwards.
4. Be smart about FA acquisitions; cheap, young and easy deals to get out of if necessary.
And the hardest? Trade RW if you can. He will be 36 by the time the “new” team starts to hit its peak, and the draft capital you can get via a trade would make it worth it. Plus you get the added bonus of worse seasons when he’s gone, elevating your draft picks.
The time for a real rebuild was in 2017/2018. But PC blew that, and wasted years and years of RW’s career.
— Carroll, fully determined to do things ‘his way’, has way too much misplaced loyalty in what appear to be yes-men coaches and coordinators, including family members.
Rob, you failed to include the GM in that statement!
It goes without saying at this point that the coaching staff and GM need to go. The evidence is irrefutable.
The thing that stood out above all else in last nights game to me was the opportunity to see another quarterback run the offense.
Rob, I think you were to quick to dismiss this with,
-a Geno Smith cameo that was fun tonight. Be careful what you wish for at such an important position.
What I saw, and it really opened my eyes, and I don’t really care that the Ram’s weren’t prepared for him, Geno Smith, a career back-up came in and executed the offense the way we were all hoping Russell Wilson would. And looked better than Russ last night in doing so.
To quote Paul Cook – Geno Smith did on those two scoring drives what I have been screaming for RW and our offense to do for some time now. Move the chains. Take the check downs. Take the short stuff, the screen passes, the quick slants.
I couldn’t agree more. So why was Geno able to do what Russ hasn’t?
I think we can all agree that Russ hasn’t played well this year and the offense as a whole has been very inconsistent. Over the years we’ve been use to Russ taking over late in games with his scrambling giving receivers time to get open and his running for first downs. Putting defenses on their heels and forcing them to account for him on every play. Compensating for what has been consistently less than stellar offensive line play. Well the very thing that made Russ so dangerous is the very thing father time is taking away from him now, his speed and quickness.
Russ is now being forced to be a pocket passer and his issues with not being able to see the entire field is becoming a greater liability. Something that Geno doesn’t suffer from being 6′ 3″ as evidenced by his play last night. This brings up an interesting point.
How was Drew Brees able to be so successful being a pocket passer? The answer to that question is that Sean Payton accounted for Drew’s height issues by building the offense around him. Payton always had quality guards and a good center to keep the interior of the pocket clean giving Drew a clear view of the field and room to work. A clear failing of our coaching staff and GM. Did you notice the play last night where Russ stood strong in the pocket as it quickly collapsed while he was attempting a quick short pass and he hit Aaron Donald in the head with the football?
At this point in Russ’s career, if the team wants him to be successful, than they need to provide him with a solid offensive line. They can no longer play it cheap with the expectation that Russ can overcome it. Russ is well aware of this and demanded improvement this last off season.
I agree with Rob on this – The reality is we are months away from him being more aggressive in pursuing a trade.
I also agree with many here that the Saints would be a great fit for Russ. Sean Payton would build the offense around him and play to his strengths.
It may already be to late, but ownership needs to make drastic changes now!
At this stage of his career, Russ is who he is. I don’t blame Bevell, Schottenheimer or Waldron, I think they have all tried to get Russ to expand his play. In Russ’s defense, I do believe that the offensive line has been an issue for Russ, being a shorter quarterback. We have seen Drew Brees have a lot of success and I attribute that to how Sean Payton for years and a clear reason why Russ would probably be very good as the Saints quarterback. Sean Payton would play to his strengths and give him a good supporting cast.
When has RW played and looked the best over the years? When he has scrambled around and ran the football. How many times have we all seen Russ take over games late with his feet? Scrambling all over the field, running for first downs, making defenses account for him running on every play. All those come back wins! But If you want Russ to be successful at this point in his career He knows this and demanded it last off season.
Agree with much of what you say here. It’s hard to criticize Russ because he’s great and a future Hall of Famer, and he’s no doubt the main and almost sole reason this team hasn’t been in last place in the division for years now.
BUT
Russ also is limited as a player, as great as he is. There was a very brief window in his career where he was a prolific pocket passer and that was amazing. But it came and went like a fart in the wind.
Last night, arguably the turning point in the game was the terrible sack he took to make it 3rd and 22 or whatever, with his repeated twirls and his knee going down before he got rid of the ball. It’s just terrible play and it’s a drive killer. This team isn’t good enough to overcome mistakes like that. Yes, Russ often makes a terrific play out of those situations, but to lose 12 yards when you had ample time to throw the ball away. It just is not smart playing. And no amount of coaching or system will get rid of those huge negative plays. It’s not unlike the one he took to end the game earlier this year that should have been a game ending safety.
Russ is not blameless in this. He is proving to be somewhat uncoachable to a certain degree. And yes, his height is an obvious shortcoming in a quick passing game, and he has never been the decisive and quick thrower that Brees was. He probably never will be. It’s not his instinct. It’s like people who used to say Cam would become an accurate passer. He was never going to do that. Russ is also never going to be what many hope he can be.
Not that he’s the main reason this team is in shambles. But there needs to be an honest accounting of Russ’s play and development too. He’s terrific. But he’s not as good as he thinks he is.
“How was Drew Brees able to be so successful being a pocket passer? The answer to that question is that Sean Payton accounted for Drew’s height issues by building the offense around him. Payton always had quality guards and a good center to keep the interior of the pocket clean giving Drew a clear view of the field and room to work. A clear failing of our coaching staff and GM.”
This, this and fucking THIS!!!
Brees was one of the most accurate passers ever. Despite the “Russ throws the best deep ball in the NFL” narrative, he really isn’t consistently an accurate thrower of the ball… especially on timing and intermediate routes.
He’ll never be Brees for that reason.
You should check out their stats. If you take brees first ten years in NO he’s a little better than Wilson.
If you take his first ten years starting in San diego…..wilson is actually more accurate over his first ten years.
I think Wilson in NO under payton could be pretty spectacular. And probably just as accurate as brees was.
Woops, I failed to delete the last two paragraphs during my rewrite
It’s all good, even the unedited stuff.
I think the fan base will be left with a lot of unanswered questions. Who was responsible for draft picks and free agents? Who pushed for and agreed to long term contracts? Who decided on defensive and offensive schemes? With lack of clarity I lay all that on Pete Carroll.
Do the Seahawks coaches study the opponents and have a plan to win? They seem to stray alot from half to half.
Were the other coaches qualified? That’s a big question especially with Ken Norton.
How is it that Wilson can have such a high QBR and yet the team has a losing record? It’s not all on the defense, we have to score too.
And lastly, how can a team that went to the superbowl twice become whatever they are now?
Defensively, is the sum of the parts greater or worse?
Trade Pete Carroll for Urban Meyer
Grading my Watch Points
Feed the beast in the running game
Grade: D
I wrote:
Cut+paste the runners’ performance in Ram games. Not nearly enough creativity in the game plan to keep the rhythm going.
Collins had 15 runs for 47 yards. He only had two runs greater than 4 yards.
Dallas run on 3rd and 2. Nothing. Collins run on 4th and 2. Stuffed.
Once again, Carson not available for a critical game.
Virginia Mason needs to seriously evaluate their partnership with the Seahawks at this point. Are they getting good PR by continuing to sponsor the Seahawks’ training facilities?
I’m not joking.
The defense needs a big game from the safeties
Grade: F+
The plus is for Diggs’ fantastic effort on the interception. What was Stafford thinking on that throw? If you cannot target a receiver, the fans in the 10th row get a souvenir football.
Diggs and Adams were otherwise totally ineffective. The only drive stops early were when Stafford overthrew his targets.
I wrote:
1 sack, 3 QB hits total. Stafford did indeed have all day.
But the safeties were a confused, ineffective mess. Receivers were running free through the middle.
Jamal Adams. Very possibly his worst game as a Seahawk.
So now the Seahawks have a star player who cannot cover, cannot rush the passer and had one TFL that was not spectacular.
Al Woods had one of those. Marquise Blair had one. Ugo Amadi had one.
Those guys aren’t making big money and cost multiple draft picks to acquire.
Awful.
Russell Wilson, get this monkey off your back
Grade: D+
Can anyone decipher what the Seahawks were doing on offense in the way of a game plan?
Could not establish the run. Tight ends were not involved until later in the game.
The “creativity” in the offense was to throw a 2 yard slant to Colby Parkinson? To line Parkinson out wide like a wide receiver and then…ignore him?
Deep passing:
4 for 6 on deep passing. A TD, a PI drawn and a roughing the passer call drawn. That’s the good part.
The bad: two sacks, an interception, and an injury that could send the season from ‘spiraling’ to ‘well at least our second round pick is a higher one’
I wrote
First play out of the gate was a deep pass. Oh my.
The offense booed off the field twice by fans for calling the “Mike Holmgren Special” – a draw play on third and long (granted, one was with Russ’ busted finger).
The defense did its job early but the offense could not put any semblance of pressure on the Rams by racking up a couple scores. That is where the game was lost.
The end of the half sequence was a disaster. How does Field General Russ all that time tick off the clock?
DK Metcalf needs to have a game
Grade: B+
Excellent performance by Metcalf. Five targets, five receptions.
Great creativity and toughness on that YAC play. Don’t go down with defender 1, juke defender 2 out of his jock and take off for a nice gain.
Drawing a PI on Jalen Ramsey to get the offense off their own goal line.
Two fantastic touchdown catches.
Cha, I just wanted to say that I love your before game and after game analysis and grading format. Seems like the Seahawks coaches should be following you.
One thought about your winning strategies. Perhaps this team just isn’t good enough to successfully do them? For instance I had high hopes for using Collins as a running back, but without better blocking he is reverting back to short yards per carry.
Same with defensive schemes when Adams is mucking it up.
OK – at high risk – let me do a tiny bit of silver linings – —
As of a couple weeks ago, didn’t we all write this game down in permanent ink as a loss? The Rams beat down the mighty Bucs, putting up similar yards on offense against their D, as they did last night. That’s why, to me, the must win game was against the Niners, and we beat them pretty comfortably. I expected bad things last night, and what I got was, a pretty decent game by our side. We looked the better team in the 1st half. And I know every team has injuries, but we were without our RB1, TE1, and WR3.
We lost the 3rd quarter, 13-0, and that was the game, and I can’t pretty up the defensive performance there. I don’t claim to understand defensive zone schemes well enough to have the solution – but something has to change, as time after time Woods/Cupp ran into open spaces in the zone for significant and easy completions.
But in the 4th, after we lost our talisman player, I thought the team showed some heart, not only staying in it, but even showing some spark on offense. And while Geno played well – of course things feel better if it’s Russell w the ball and two mins left, down by 6.
Point being – we played mostly toe-to-toe with the Rams, a team most people consider one of the best in the NFC. I know we gave up a ton of yards, but the game was competitive throughout.
Re Adams, there’s nothing more worth saying – he’s a disaster. No silver linings there.
I’m with you on this.
The D held the Rams to 23 pts… i would say they relatively did their job.
It sucks Geno didn’t come through (tiky-tacky missed call).. but you should expect going forward RW offense can score 24pt.
There is still some obvious soul-searching the Hawks need to do. Where Jamal fits, communication on D, calling plays to sustain drives, are all things that need to be addressed immediately.
The 2018 Hawks started 2-3, then were 4-5. Those hawks, having similar issues we have now (new OC, issues with LOB-less secondary, establishing identity, injuries)… Proceeded to rip of a 6-1 end to the season.
I still think it’s too early to throw in the towel.
This is the time to start rebuilding the franchise.
Three teams in the division that are better, so suck now and rise when they go through their downturn.
Trade Russel Wilson
Trade Jamal Adams
Trade Bobby Wagner
Recoup as many picks as possible for this offseason
Time to get rid of Pete Carroll as the head coach.
Put John Schneider as the top man making on field personnel changes.
He can find talent. Let him find the talent and rebuild the team.
Sports is cyclical. Failure to recognize that or worse to believe you can beat it and continue to remain at the top while your stars age out is foolish and pure fantasy. Embrace the change and the rebuild.
And here is the reality check. Bwagz at this point looks like a last season guy. Adams is godf***ing awful.
What is RWs trade value, atm? His next contract will be in the 45-50m range. He has no screen plays, no slants, no inside out routes. At this point, he is limited, and his wheels are falling off. Play him two deep, and you are in business. He is as great a reason for this situation as is PC and JS.
The other problem is the teams listed last season may no longer be interested:
Dallas signed Dak to a big deal
LV Carr may play well enough this year
Chicago? Willing to give up on fields after a year?
So that leaves NO, when Jameis doesn’t work out.
Not a lot of leverage to get adequate compensation back….
You’ll be able to add GB and NYG to the list in the off-season
Indianapolis an option?
Rob. Great article and you hit the nail on the head.
I have lost faith. Nearly Everything seems broken both on and off the field.
It is literally the opposite of what a successful team needs to do.
Change needs to start at the top; ownership needs to step up or step aside.
Carroll needs to go, he is responsible and needs to own it. It’s time and he’s had his shot at a reboot but failed.
Maybe Russ stays as a result or maybe he goes but either way there is upside.
Let’s crack on
I see a lot hair pulling and teeth grinding over KNjr. Listen Norton isn’t the problem. PC is the problem. Firing Norton would just be appeasing the masses. Carroll will then simply bring in another DC who will run the same D that Norton is running. Nothing will change. The only thing that will impact the Seahawks will be the removal of PC and JS. The organization needs a total over haul.
💯
+1
https://twitter.com/NYJ_Matt/status/1446317919613374475
We need a dog safety so we can see you poodle bark on the bench where you belong.
“We need a dog safety so we can see you poodle bark on the bench where you belong”
Awesome Mick!
Sigh… tough year to be a Seahawks & Dawgs fan. Both teams are glaringly average. Well, in the Huskies’ case they suck.
Back to Loserville. When the Hawks were great it was so amazing for this city. I dread what’s coming (until I remember sports aren’t everything).
Anyone know how many/what picks we have coming in rounds 5-7? We already know what we’ll have 1-4. Thanks.
Good recap cha. I especially latched onto this that you wrote…”The defense did its job early but the offense could not put any semblance of pressure on the Rams by racking up a couple scores. That is where the game was lost.” Bingo.
If you had told me that the Rams would have zero points at the end of the first quarter, three points at the half, and nine points with less than five minutes to go in the 3rd quarter, I would have been on the phone to a bookie to lay money down on the Hawks.
The offense was inept and couldn’t take control of the game in the first half when they had the chance. And what do they do when the second half begins and they still have the chance to do some damage? PUNT PUNT PUNT.
Game over.
PC show
[q] How are you? “Why do you ask?”
[q] What happened? “Rolling along, game was going. Winning on third down, take care of QB, missed our opps to get second score. Woulda been in pretty good shape there, weren’t able to get done. Second half, plays in flurry, a few same kind of plays, explosive plays. Deep to short weren’t able to make it. Alarming we didn’t fix issue we saw in Minnesota. Third down play, chucked it, very fortunate happened. Significant. Screwed up opp to get a win.”
[q] Plays over middle? What do to stop? “Good Q. Variety of ways people can route in front of LB. Wrap receivers behind them. Inside LBs critical. QB hold ball to see it, LBs bite up, throw ball behind them. Happened about 4 times. We were in different coverage. Just basic stuff we didn’t play well enough. Under coverage didn’t fit w pass rush. Wasn’t long routes, just full routes. Got out of our passing lanes.”
[q] Long routes/full routes? “How long QB holds FB. Just a beat longer. Half a second. Allow QB to be comfortable.”
[q] Figure out what happens with defense? “Our execution. Not principles that aren’t fundamentals. Getting antsy in coverage. Doing this for years. Couple weeks ago saw it, came back to bite us again. We’ve been working on it, that’s what is disturbing to me. Kills us, we had to give up a game to learn it.”
[q] Right talent to make happen? “yes.”
[q] Adams play? “Deep ball, deeper than guy running route. Funky play, underthrown. Huge play out of it. Next play one on one route beat to corner. That’s football, it happens.”
[q] Adams usage? “Not necessarily different. Stuff we’ve developed. Pressures have to do with opp. He’s in every game plan. Got moved out because of some formations. Still want him to rush.”
[q] Wagner? “Highly productive with tackles. Firing line with calls, gotta help us. Jordyn continuing to grow and learn. False step here and flinch wrong way can be taken adv of, growing pains. Working with both guys.”
[q] Darrell Taylor? “Nice job, learning growing. Bigger factor as we continue to develop him. younger guys have to live through errors. He’s one of those, learning.”
[q] Russell ? “Getting after it. Traveling to specialist. Talked half dozen times since game. I’ll be there on phone when he gets opinion from docs.”
[q] Mallet finger? “Could be that, yeah. Gotta make sure.”
[q] How long out? “Don’t know. Not seen doc yet. Didn’t sleep a minute last night efforts to get things set up today. Do everything he possibly can to get back. Never missed a FB game in his life. Attacking it full on.”
[q] Not pain issue, finger issue, middle finger important? “Sure is. Flick and zip. Bledsoe got hurt similar fashion. Throws wobbly ball. Can’t control it. Throws to seam WR, goes to outside WR we win the game. surgery played the next week.”
[q] Rhythm of offense not in synch? “Look at games, look great in portions. Haven’t found rhythm consistently. Explosive, made plays, opps, working with running game. Consistency we’re looking for. It’s a long season. Geno came in and sparked us. Could do everything with Russ with Geno. Great to get Chris back, big factor. Offense not as smooth as like.”
[q] Geno immediate lift for offense? “Full tempo, as fast as we can go. That’s what you saw. Defense plays different in those situations. Geno was able to take adv.”
[q] DK vs Ramsey? “great battle. Physical, did really well. Huge factor. Great TD pass Russ hits him. Couple really tough catches too. Really cool game.”
[q] Double punt legal? “I didn’t know it. Never seen it happen. Marvelous to scoop the spinning ball and kick it in a flash. Amazing play. Rugby player growing up.”
[q] spend a mini bye on to get back? “Continue to clean up stuff. Being really precise. Off a step don’t quite hit your fit. Have to be better at everything we’re doing. Challenge of season. Not a great start for us. Clean stuff up across the board so same issues don’t show up. That’s what pisses me off about the game, have to fix your problems to make progress.”
[q] Are you close? “I think we’re really close. Should have won the game last night. Marvelous job on third down. Huge improvement for us. Things doing better than past, gotta do more.”
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz………………………..
“should have won the game last night”
What a ridiculous statement.
Sounds like a coaching problem on defense…
Pete should be let go. When is the last game that the o and d played well in the same game. been a couple of years, as I don’t count the jets game last year. always close games , Pete was asked about this 2 seasons ago, he response was “tough, get over it”
He should be let go
He should also retire
None of us wanted to have to say this but it’s true. It’s just true.
Never thought ownership will be such a big thing. Miss you Paul. Pete is getting advantage, no one to question him.
PFF Offense
https://i.redd.it/a8bv1cp049s71.png
PFF Defense
https://i.redd.it/udzw6iww39s71.png
Diggs 39.7
Adams 36.6
Meh. Not Diggs job.
So Adams was overall 53.0 last year right? And going into this game he was what, 64.0. This game should have him right there where he was last year. That’s known as regression to the mean.
Yesterday was the first time in my almost 40yrs as a Hawks fan that I have to option to watch the game and decided to do something else because I am so completely apathetic when it comes to this team. I thought the should have done a complete blow up from the top down last off season to start over under new leadership. It has seemed like they have been treading water for years and this year they will finally drown forcing change.
Great writeup as always Rob!
My worst season was three years ago when I wouldn’t watch the first half because the Seahawks offense would play like crap through out the half. They would be lucky to get a first down.
Didn’t even bother last night. Went to the coast. Caught some on the radio and some on Gamecast after clamming. Just don’t give a shit cuz it’s been, as Rob put it, “obvious” where this is going.
Very succinct.
https://twitter.com/DWyattHupton/status/1446468706930937857
Interesting that his tackling grades are so much lower.
Doesn’t seem like that should be dependent upon “usage” or “scheme”.
Seems like an effort thing, to me.
I still wonder if he has lingering shoulder issues, or is afraid of reinjuring his shoulder. It could explain his bailing out of plays that would require really lowering his shoulder and causing a collision.
Brian Bosworth shoulders …
When the idea of a rebuild gains acceptance, I’ll be looking for the “trade Russ” campaign to start.
He’s a phenomenal deep passer, escape artist, and competitor. But I think his aspirations are not in alignment with his playstyle. He aspires to be among the historical best QBs, but he seems unwilling or unable to extend his game to do it. He tries to will the big play every time he drops back, and fails to get easy short yardage.
Paradoxically, his style works great when paired with a strong running game. You can run for the easy yards and pass for the big play. It also seems to somewhat work with a strong defense that holds up to feast-or-famine reliance on big plays, although that’s frustrating to watch.
Russ has bent the team to rely on his big plays to win, making them fragile and one-dimensional. I’ve been a big fan for a long time, but now I’m seeing “Let Russ Cook” as a naive desperation move rather than sound strategy. It is perhaps not his fault – when the defense and running game aren’t good, you do what you can to win – but it’s not a solid way to build for the future.
Not listened to Carroll yet but seen quotes.
He is insulting peoples intelligence
He’s not insulting anyone. He’s just that smart and everyone else is just that stupid. Just ask him. He’ll tell you. To dare question why he traded for Jamal Adams or drafted Penny over Chubb just means you’re the stupid one for not accepting His Excellency.
In all seriousness, I noticed that last night a couple times when I was watching the post-game press conference.
I’m still in disbelief that the usual suspects of Twitter are a) pretending like Geno is an upgrade to RW and B) this was just a hiccup/outlier performance for Jamal.
How anybody takes these people seriously is beyond me.
Geno played admirably and I’m happy for him…but my God – it was two nice drives where the Rams were happy to allow the underneath stuff. I hate using the term “toxic,” but Seahawks Twitter, by and large…just yikes.
Geno has been a horse for his entire football career but we are to pretend that he’s a unicorn.
RW played poorly. I will go to my grave that he continually is at odds with his head coach. It’ll be fun to watch him go to another team next year, with an offensive coach who builds around him – and to watch him thrive. He’s not perfect and has huge flaws, but my goodness – some folks have lost their minds to how good he really is and how little help he gets from his organization.
It isn’t that Geno is better. I think Russell and the organization have already peaked. It’s just like people peak at work and then hang on too long because of the money. It would be better for both to make a change and a new start. Same with the coaches.
“It’ll be fun to watch him go to another team next year, with an offensive coach who builds around him – and to watch him thrive.”
1000% agree
RW 2022: 50 TD’s, 10 or fewer interceptions, 5,000 yds … for Sean Payton, Reich, or other go-for-the-throat offensive coach. If Carroll owned a Ferrari would he ever drive it over 30 miles an hour?
It’s not just the usual suspects on Twitter Matt. It’s being said here too.
sad to say, but a really good performance by Jamal would be the outlier now.
Thinking about him – he’s kind of a savant/svengali genius in that in everything he does, he carries himself like Star. From his stupid wardrobe, to his slapping everyone on the back, to his press conferences – – he does everything that big flashy star athletes do… except for one problem, he ain’t backing it up in the only place that matters. I feel gaslit.
That’s funny.
Salk is desperate for his new show to succeed, and he probably feels he needs to stay on the teams (Pete’s, mainly) good side to make that happen.
PFT piling on:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/10/08/the-clock-continues-to-tick-toward-a-potential-divorce-between-russell-wilson-seahawks/
Gotta keep the listeners believing to sell the advertising time. Thanks for your honesty and realism over the years of decline. Maddening though to see the trainwreck so far in advance and see nothing done to prevent it.
Jamal Adams was so poor today I’d have been pissed even if he wasn’t getting paid 17m a year after having been acquired for 2 firsts and a 3rd.
If it wasn’t Jamal Adams people would be asking for him to be benched, I’m at the point where it’s not just: we could just be getting this level of play for a fraction of the price. I think we’d actually would be better with Neal.
Last year we loved to hate and he divided fans, but at least he offered something unique, even if it was inflated by the way they used him. Now he’s just objectively bad.
This was by far the worst game i have seen Jamal Adams play. But i think y’all being a lil bit too harsh on him. Yes he was very poor yesterday but overall this season he’s been solid. Take out the miscommunication with Sidney last game i thought he was very solid. That hit on Kittle to dislodge the ball reminds me of Kam Chancellor. The defense has some great players i just think the scheme they run is pure bullshit. Ken Norton Jnr must be fired asap. Bring in a DC that will design well disguised blitzes and adapt accordingly. Our cornerback play is just piss poor right now and we just need a DC that can really go after the quarterback. Quandre Diggs has been phenomenal. But he seems to be the only one. Russ up until the injury was having a decent game imo and i hope he recovers during the bye week or really the season is over. We have a couple of winnable games coming up. But damn it KNJ must fukking go. Enough is enough. Change the damn defense it is not working. I biggest issue with the offense imo we dont have the sure fire short plays to sustain drives. No wonder we are running on 4th and 2. SC must come up with better short design plays to sustain drives. There’s still hope but changes must be made. Go Hawks!!!!!!!!
He hasn’t been solid
He’s been anonymous
Solid…..I mean lynch was a world beater at his position for what, a fourth round pick. Kam erased players for a third. Jarran Reed was almost a dictionary drawing of solid and cost a single pick and a heluva lot less money.
Sorry, but this is just homerism. The caliber of player on the defense is league average. Even BWagz is showing a drop from last year (though LBs depend so much on good OLs). Other than him, I can’t see any of the defensive players as “great”; most would have trouble beating out other teams starters.
The Hawks have four (and a half) great players; RW, DK, Lock and BWagz. Dickson is the half, but punters don’t matter. No one else is great. This roster is weak and full of holes.
Jamal Adams when asked about Seattle’s defensive struggles tonight:
“We need more dogs”
Brilliant, succinct insight from a team leader who proves himself on the field play after play after play.
I’ll say again, if you want to watch a stunning display of ineptitude, replay the game and chart #33 – it’s laugh-out-loud hilarious, at times. I’m not sure an argument can be made that he’s an NFL-caliber player based on that game.
The best result from last night was all of this being exposed on national television. Even the local Seattle media can no longer ignore questions that should have been asked long ago.
Until new ownership arrives, this franchise is in trouble.
and not tough at all — i watched him pretty closely… always the 2nd guy in on a tackle…not the physical guy we’d been led to believe he would be.
Why only seahawksdraftblog members are able to see pathetic Adams, others often thinks it is because of Norton. Irrespective to coaching, I don’t see Adams has a good football player. If you just go per caliber i will play Ryan Neal in place of Adams
https://twitter.com/NextGenStats/status/1446297841714929666
Just like Head Coach-in waiting KNJr drew it up.
The 20+ YAC drove me crazy. The lack of effort by Diggs and Adams after the catch was something bench worthy.
I thought this as well. There were plays last night, multiple plays, where Adams looks totally lost. Not just scheme lost, but football fundamentals lost. Inexcusable mistakes from any NFL starting safety, let alone the League’s highest paid safety.
Agreed. Is it the player? Is it coaching? Does it matter?
He’s not THE problem, but he’s A problem.
If KNJ isn’t fired during this mini-bye week PC has shown there is zero accountability. Carroll is a defensive coach, he should take the reigns until the offseason, but I doubt he will because there would then be nobody to hide behind. As it is, KNJ at least offers a buffer between this awful defense and the head coach that is ultimately responsible. No easy or short term fixes here, but Carroll at least has to show that there will be accountability. If he doesn’t do that, he should go too.
he needs to be let go simply for letting his ego be more important than the team.
Unless our offense improves schematically, and our defense shows some kind of new found play-making ability, it definitely does look like there will be a reckoning of sorts at season’s end. The insane thing about it is that there’s no discernible authority to initiate the page one rewrite the franchise is in need of now besides PC.
It’s a head scratcher. I think you’ve got to develop some kind of sense of humor about it. I mean, the leadership of the franchise beyond PC is something out of a Kafka story, some vague, distant, silent and perplexing entity. How can anyone say with any conviction at all how this drama will have played out looking back on it a few years from now?
I don’t know if the local press and punditry is at all prepared for what’s coming.
Remember when the Seahawks could just run on teams even when they knew it was coming?
No run game.
On pace for the worst defense in NFL history!
If this does not bring change nothing will.
This was my fear before the draft. I was somewhat excited to trade RW for a fresh start. I realize we might have been just as bad or worse, but at least it would be a change, a chance for something new and exciting.
I see a dark decade ahead.
Trading Russ is not solution, getting rid of Pete will give new coach a good QB at his prime
Paying Russell 25 million a year isn’t a solution either. He isn’t learning anything new or getting any better. And he may never be the same after this hand injury heals.
KJR saying likely 6-8 weeks for Russ.
Well now, we shall see how good Geno is now won’t we?
A good chunk of the fanbase has been waiting so long to get rid of RW that they’ll easily delude themselves into accepting loss after loss as long as he’s gone. If you didn’t see the box score you’d legit think we won last night’s game instead of turning it over on the first play of the deciding drive. RW throws a pick in that situation and he gets ripped to shreds.
💯
So will this give Carroll the ready made excuse for a shit season so he can come back to “right the ship” next year or will he leave/retire with dignity intact because he’ll have the RW was hurt excuse?
If RW is out 6-8 weeks that’s like throwing accelerant on a fire.
Carroll show hardly worth listening to again
Skirt around topics, too willing to get into irrelevant stuff
This was all fine when they were winning
You can’t do that kind of show now. It needs to be more pressing than it is
Long time lurker, first time poster. I totally agree Rob, this game felt like the offiicial ending of an era. The looming Russ injury pretty much puts the stamp on it. To be honest, I felt like Pete has been cooked since 2017 when the team literally did nothing for 3 quarters and Russ had to bail them out in the 4th. His insistence on keeping yes men around him is the opposite of “win forever”. The Waldron hire was a pleasant surprise but it seems like Pete’s been slowly taking sneaking his way back into the offense.
This is the worst case timing for a significant Russ injury with no 1st round pick. We have too many bad contracts and aging players at key positions. The time for a full rebuild is now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGVZKIO8E84
Herd can be annoying but he’s right (I actually like him, i find him entertaining lol)
Russ’s finger must hurt even more when he ponders the fact that the Chiefs and Chargers GENUINELY prioritized and revamped their OL’s in preparation for this season.
Looking over the interweb (against my better judgment) for game reactions, and there’s a surprising amount of fans who are looking forward to the “Geno Era.”
It’s always interesting to see the mob mentality of NFL fans. But for some perspective:
*Geno Smith has never demonstrated the ability to effectively sustain an offensive unit. He’s been a backup for a reason. And while he did have a nice quarter of football, he’s very likely not a long-term solution at the position. I like Geno, seems like a nice enough dude, and I’m rooting for him if RW has to miss time. But to somehow suggest that this team is better off without Wilson, to me, is nuts.
*Wilson isn’t perfect, we all know that. But after winning as many games as he has with the numbers he’s put up, he probably deserves a little good will. I get as annoyed as anyone with his dance routine, both on and off the field. I find his way of speaking and behaving inexplicably cringe-worthy. But he IS a winner. The further along we go into the Pete Carroll era, the more I feel like Wilson has buoyed this franchise.
Personally, I’m on board for some serious house cleaning and that starts with Carroll. I think it would be wise for him to hang em up after this season, but if he chooses not to, I’m worried that nobody else will fire him. I also worry that IF Wilson is out for an extended period of time, Carroll may be given another season as a mulligan.
I’m not really into long-winded. And that was long-winded. My bad! Good thing I didn’t start talking about Peacock!
Couple of points / questions:
Haven’t re-watched the game, and can’t face doing so. I thought the OLine was much improved from the moment Ge-No entered the game, he seemed to get much better protection than Russ. Did I imagine this or did anyone else think the same?
If Pete and JS go after this season and Russ stays who would want to come in as GM or Coach. They would inherit a very highly paid QB and SS taking up a disproportionate % of the Cap, with no First Round pick. Add that to problems all across the roster with many ageing players and a lack of genuine talent in many positions. I doubt many of us could name more than 20 players from this roster they would like to remain next year. Would any aspiring Head Coach want to take on this role?
Hemingway was a genius:
“How did you go bankrupt?” Bill asked.
“Two ways,” Mike said. “Gradually, then suddenly.”
This sums up the Hawks as this season crashes and burns. They got caught in the middle; not good enough to win it all, not bad enough to get great draft spots that could elevate the team. Then age and injuries caught up with them and the cupboard is bare.
It’s going to be a long, hard slog repairing this franchise. If Wilson is out 8 weeks, then we’ll really see his value to the team. To match last year’s record, we’d have to go 10-1. I think it’s safe to say that’s unlikely…
Besides age and injuries catching up with them, you forgot lousy to utter shit draft picks. That contributed a great deal to what we’re seeing now.
LJ Collier does not like my post btw.
I’d personally rather have two LJ Collier’s, a Tedric Thompson, and $17.5M in cap than Jamal Adams
If anybody thinks Geno Smith is the answer they just sent their credibility rating into a free fall.
https://twitter.com/FB_FilmAnalysis/status/1446518913773158400
It is a comedy at this point.
I can’t even bring myself to write today
I’ll just be repeating everything I said on the stream
Major changes needed
No need to, Rob. You’ve said enough truths for a lifetime. I wish that someone in charge of the situation would actually listen though and see the obvious.
I can see it now on this seasons ‘America’s Game’….”after they lost in Week 5 to the Rams no one ever thought Seattle would rebound to go unbeaten through the rest of the season and storm into the Playoffs to win a 2nd Superbowl”.
Said no one ever.
Something that I did want to mention.
A question that is worded as such: ‘How would you assess the performance of X’ is a bit of a cop out.
Asking Carroll to ‘assess’ Jamal Adams is to give him an invitation to say what he said today. Which is that he’s playing really well. And that went unchallenged.
Personally when I do an interview I might ask for a general performance assessment to get the ball rolling but when it’s time to ask a difficult question, you’ve got to be direct IMO.
‘Why is Jamal Adams struggling to make an impact?’
‘Are you struggling to get the best out of Jamal Adams?’
Not as easy to answer or blow off.
Sorry about going on about stuff like this. It’s just because I do interviews that this is something I like discussing. I did one earlier and to prove I’m not a hypocrite, here’s an example https://twitter.com/robstaton/status/1446473680230526977
I appreciate this type of insight. Before this blog, I assumed Seattle media asked questions that were asked everywhere else. This is what I had come to expect as a consumer of local media. To have a journalist point out the nuances of asking direct questions, then demand a true answer is helpful to me.
Now if someone would just do it!
Rob, I said before that I would pay to watch you interview Pete Carrol. I’m not so sure anymore. While I’m sure you would ask the difficult questions we would all like answers to, I’m now just as sure you wouldn’t get responses that would have any actual value.
What were hearing from Pete now is “we didn’t play well enough”. He takes no responsibility for the poor play of this team. Instead he directs the fault back on the players. Pete’s been around the block too many times and I’m sure he could dance his way around any situation where blame or responsibility is directed at him and do so with a smirk, a smile and a congratulatory comment about you doing your homework!
I agree, major changes are need and they can’t come soon enough!
I would love if Rob wrote an article “what needs to happen in order for Russell Wilson to stay in Seattle” or sth similar.
This season is gonna be long and uninspired, and that one time where we could havd gotten a decent draft pick, we don’t own one.
Would be cool to have something to cheer. For now, I can not think of anything better than Taylor getting 10 sacks, Brooks bouncing back and beat San Fran again.
He already said in the Instant Reaction pod above that in order for Russ to stay, Pete will have to go. He’s correct. It’s going to be one or the other.
Get any blowback from all the “nothing to see here” fans on that yet Rob?
Not yet
It seems like all of a sudden, a lot of people have gone very quiet…
Even normally optimistic places like Field Gulls are accepting this, coming to the same realizations and ideas that are happening here.
Ah yes, FG…
Not sure if Pete going away is gonna be enough to keep Russ. Who’s gonna convince him to stay in the rebuild mode? I doubt that Mr. Arnold or Jody Allen has that in their capabilities.
My concern is it will be “well, we didn’t do as well since our franchise QB was sidelined for a long stretch”.
Luckily, I don’t think that Wilson will accept status quo.
Looking like a rough year, especially compounded bye the Jamal Addams trade leaving us with no high level pick. I’m convinced now, Carroll has to make it his last year, but think it really has to be Russell Wilson’s last year here too. To me he broke as a player when he threw that pick on the goal line instead of handing it to Lynch. The team loaded up on every possible way to make life easier, solid oline, good Wr room, solid TE targets, at very least I think we can admit the offense minus the QB would stack up pretty nicely against other teams weapons. Okay, the defense is a train wreck, poorly coached and missing talent at CB, but hard to really differentiate how much it’s missing talent, and how much it’s just poorly coached. Long story short, if the offense continues to look better with Geno, we won’t say oh Geno is the answer, we will say RW doesn’t elevate the players around him and is replaceable given it’s a user friendly offense and start the process of looking for new coach, and QB. I’d like to see what Snyder can do with a fresh start, some picks, some cap space, and the ability to operate without Carroll’s influence.
John Schneider should be fired base solely on his involvement in the Jamal Adams trade. He had a responsibility to the team, the organization and the fans to stand up to Pete Carrol and just say no. He failed not only himself, but everyone else as well.
His only responsibility is to the owner of the Hawks to do his job, which has been facilitating Pete Carroll’s vision. It’s truly impossible to judge how much of the success and failure is on Carroll and Snyder respectively. What really drives me absolutely bonkers is that so many of them have almost felt like publicly stunts just to sell tickets and bad football decisions. Half the team has been here because of a compelling backstory, at maybe football stuff should matter more than giving writers an excuse to do a puff piece about the first amputate that made the league, or who’s doing it for a lost family member, or who lived in a van down bye the river and worked three jobs while going to school to raise their brothers and sisters. Those are all great things, but should be natural occurrence, not a prerequisite for making the team. Maybe I have some bias against coaches being to involved in the front office after Holmgren who was an amazing coach, made for such a poor GM, but I largely feel like the nonsensical stuff, like trading for Jimmy Graham or Jamal Addams has had PC fingerprints on them, as de facto leader of all that is Seahawks. I’m more nervous about replacing a GM who I think may be pretty good, than a power hungry coach who has lots control of the team to the players and therefore lost their respect, or a overpaid QB who has been the opposite of clutch for some years now and has an ego that makes off-season a nightmare. At this point the BS with PC and RW has me wanting to throw both of them out of the club. Schneider is the only one I can’t confidently say is failing at their job.
well if reports are right and Russell is out 6-8 weeks…that’s pretty much that for this season.
what a bummer. i look forward to football season all year.
makes that traded draft pick sting even more, of course.
Yeah. In spite of all the drama, I held out hope that we could compete for the 6th or 7th playoff spot if things went right enough for us. At least you have the buzz of a playoff game and a punchers chance of pulling a playoff upset or two.
If RW is truly out for a long spell, well…l guess we can hope for a high second and third round pick next spring. We’ll have that.
I think the schedule allows for the team to still go 9-8 or 10-7, but not more than that
It will be an interesting offseason to be sure. I just wouldn’t bet too much on ownership stepping in and doing anything bold.
The weird thing is that on the surface, Russ seems pretty content to me this season. It would be interesting if Glazers sources were actually coming from the PCJS camp this time. Russ is a HoF QB but he’s a major headache for our OCs and coaches to deal with in a lot of ways. I say this as Russell’s biggest fan, but it was really noticeable how many things Geno freaking Smith could do in Waldron’s offense that Russ can’t.
I think Carroll retiring is inevitable at this point
But I am fearful of how this ownership will handle that
What the Seahawk defense had going at the end of 2020 was unpredictability and experience. Experience from Bobby Wagner and K.J. Wright, who had developed non-verbal communication on playing against offensive formations. They had experience from Quinton Diggs. They had unpredictability from Jamal Adams, who would pop up almost anywhere, and Carlos Dunbar, who would storm the quarterback and apply pressure with the other linemen and Wagner and Wright.
Now these playmakers are not being given the opportunity to surprise and disrupt opposing offenses. Instead, they are being asked to role-play, which takes the surprise factor away by making them predictable and less disruptive. This cripples the effectiveness of a player like Jamal Adam’s, and makes what Seattle gave up for him look like a waste. Compare his effectiveness at the end of 2020, even when injured, to the role-playing version of Adams today: there’s no comparison.
Duane Brown’s left tackle game also has been slipping. Time to invest in some OL talent, or Russ Wilson will move elsewhere.
This is where Norton and his assistants are going wrong. Not only that, but they are having players ask them why they are playing so loose in the middle and playing only the man and not the man AND the ball. That’s where the interceptions have gone, except for Diggs. That’s why we’re giving up chunk plays of 15-40 yards up the middle.
They also got to play CJ Beathard, Dwayne Haskins, Colt McCoy, the winless Jets, injured Kyler Murray and a useless Carson Wentz.
That helped the defense more than anything
Sadly, they just are not fun to watch anymore. They don’t dominate at anything. The only pulse they had that gave me pause for 5 mins was the Geno Smith Td drive. Then the defense was worse than Swiss cheese. Pathetic. Game over.
Adams is terrible. I get sick watching him wander around. Flowers is so bad that Sydney Jones is starting? Wow. He looked as lost as any CB I think I’ve ever seen. Wagner and Brooks wasted behind a bad D line.
It looks pretty grim. Can’t wait to see who the Jets pick at #6 next year. We should start a little gambling game on here to keep the season interesting and guess the Jets two top picks. I’ll go with 6 (ours) and 10 (theirs).