I remember it like it was yesterday.
23rd December, 2012.
The moment it became realistic to dream about winning it all.
The Seahawks hammered the 49ers. After three consecutive defeats to Jim Harbaugh’s crew, this felt like a turning point. A 42-13 obliteration. Even though the Niners went to the Super Bowl that year, we could all see what the Seahawks were becoming.
12 months later, they were on the road to a title.
The 2012 Niners game was immortalised in the brilliant ‘Rain City Redemption’ series. Included was a clip of Red Bryant firing his team-mates up pre-game.
“We run the ball, we win. We stop the run, we win”
Bryant barked out the line with gusto. It was a sign that everyone on the team knew what they were trying to achieve. What they intended to be.
That identity carried the Seahawks along. When it began to shift away from ‘run the ball with Marshawn and defend the run with physicality’ — the cracks began to form. We get to relive the fall-out on a nearly monthly basis thanks to Richard Sherman’s podcast.
The thing is, the Seahawks have tried for some time to get back to what they were. It’s years now since John Schneider told the media it was their intention to become the bullies again. They’ve re-set the roster twice — in 2018 and in 2022.
At no point have they been able to become what they intend to be.
Pete Carroll’s much debated philosophy remains a distant dream. An intention but not a reality.
Has a franchise ever been so clear in what it wants to be and so consistently failed to achieve it?
It says it all that yesterday, people on Twitter were actually crediting Seattle’s defense for not being so bad. They only gave up 170 rushing yards after all and 55 of those yards came on one play at the end! What an improvement from the previous few weeks.
The defense has allowed 1008 rushing yards in the last five games.
Stop the run and we win? No wonder they’re 1-4 in that stretch and were very nearly 0-5.
This has been a years long issue now. According to Football Outsiders — since the initial re-set in 2018, the Seahawks rank 22nd in defensive EPA per play and they haven’t finished a season ranked better than 17th in defensive DVOA.
Go beyond the analytics. In 2018 the pass rush solely relied on one player — Frank Clark. Then they traded him away. Since then, we’ve heard numerous mentions of prioritising this area for improvement. Year after year they fail to put together anything like a consistent, coherent, acceptable pass rush.
They’ve tried different co-ordinators, different schemes and different players. Carroll has appeared to be more hands-on at times and then this year, there was evidence of him perhaps ceding some input to the Vic Fangio-crowd. The results never change.
The Seahawks have a defensive-minded Head Coach and the defense is consistently dreadful.
Now the running game. If Marshawn Lynch needs an argument to be formed about his Hall of Fame candidacy — he just needs to point to the period of Carroll football where he hasn’t been the feature back.
In the Lynch days, the running game was consistent and set a tone. Even when the yards weren’t there — the attention Lynch demanded created opportunities for the passing game.
Since his initial retirement, what have we seen? Fluctuating form at best. At times Chris Carson shone and produced the balance Seattle craves on offense. Yet too often he would get injured and that would be that. Ditto Rashaad Penny. The occasional flash of brilliance, such as at the end of last season, but then more injuries. Ken Walker has shown moments of genuine quality this year. He too has had a couple of injuries already and is too often found looking for a home-run, rather than letting the blocking guide him to the right area.
Let’s look at the numbers for Seattle’s leading rushers over the last three seasons. Remember — this is a team determined to run as a focal point:
2020 — Chris Carson 681
2021 — Rashaad Penny 749
2022 — Ken Walker 696 (with four games remaining)
Run the ball and we win? The Seahawks’ running game deserves to be viewed as inconsistent at best. A more fitting description might be ‘not fit for purpose’ — at least not for a team so focused on making it a feature.
The one thing that has remained consistent since 2018 is the over-reliance on the quarterback. Between 2018-2020 the team basically lived and died on the arm of Russell Wilson. Now, the situation is exactly the same. Geno Smith carries the team instead. He gets almost no help from the defense or running game. Good luck Geno and if you don’t play like a Super Hero, we’re probably going to lose.
Unsurprisingly it isn’t working out for the QB.
There are plenty of teams out there who depend on the quarterback and are content living in that space. The Seahawks actively work hard to avoid becoming a one-man team and yet year after year, they find themselves relying on the QB.
We need to talk about this more.
Look — it’s not about calling for heads to roll or for people to be fired. I just think if we’re going to have all of the articles, tweets and attempts to serve crow when the going is good — we also need to have frank conversations about issues when they emerge too.
People were writing articles calling for apologies to be sent to Pete Carroll during the four-game winning streak. Perhaps, now that the team is on a 1-4 run and playing poorly, we can have a more serious debate about why we’ve seen the same problems re-appear for years?
I’ve no doubt the point will be made in response that they just need the benefit of a bounty of picks, courtesy of the Denver Broncos, to rectify the problem. That’s fine and perhaps that will prove to be the case. Yet we shouldn’t act like the Seahawks’ top brass have been a hapless bystander for years — handcuffed to a bad defensive unit.
They have created this group.
People talk about the D-line. It’s full of players they’ve drafted in the early rounds (L.J. Collier, Darrell Taylor, Boye Mafe), players they paid to retain (Poona Ford — with the highest cap-hit on the roster — and Bryan Mone) or retained over numerous years (Al Woods). This is their bunch of guys.
They’ve also spent a first round pick on Jordyn Brooks, a third rounder on Cody Barton, paid a high price to keep Quandre Diggs and a kings ransom to acquire and retain Jamal Adams.
A massive resource spend has created this group. Another massive resource spend isn’t guaranteed to do anything unless they get it right.
This is especially the case when you select someone like Mafe early in round two and then give him considerably fewer snaps than ‘signed off the couch and on the brink of retirement’ Bruce Irvin. I mean, look at the difference here:
vs Tampa Bay — Mafe 37.3%, Irvin 62.7%
vs Las Vegas — Mafe 35.1%, Irvin 68.8%
vs Carolina — Mafe 15.6%, Irvin 77.8%
vs San Francisco — Mafe 35.9%, Irvin 53.1%
Irvin’s PFF grade is a 62.2 and Mafe’s grading at 60.5. They both have two sacks. If their performance levels are almost identical — why is Mafe, a potential long-term piece for the defense, sitting and watching Irvin gobble up a bulk of the snaps?
It just doesn’t make any sense.
We’ve seen this before haven’t we? With the unspectacular Benson Mayowa regularly preferred to Alton Robinson over the previous two seasons.
As noted yesterday — there are big questions to be asked about whether the Seahawks need to bin-off the scheme they adopted this year. It isn’t working in Minnesota with Ed Donatell either, or in LA with Brandon Staley. It appears unless you have Vic Fangio, the Fangio defense just doesn’t work.
Also noted yesterday — the importance of being ruthless in the off-season. You cannot pay Diggs and Adams $36m combined in 2023. They shifted resource away from linebacker by cutting Bobby Wagner this year. They need to do the same at safety now — relying on younger, faster, healthier players and pumping extra money into the trenches. Ryan Neal is a perfect example of why spending big at safety isn’t necessary and there are safeties in the upcoming draft who can provide cheap value.
It’s also really important to be firm in asking — when are things going to change? When will a team that sets out to run and defend the run brilliantly, actually manage to pull it off?
How many years of failing to do so is acceptable?
At what point does the whole, ‘this season has been better than anyone expected!’ stop being used as acceptable blanket to cover all ills?
The Seahawks are 7-7 with a powder-puff schedule. We might not have expected Geno Smith to excel this year — but neither did we expect the Rams and Cardinals to be a shambles.
Seattle’s strength of schedule is just .450 compared to Detroit’s .550, Washington’s .545 and New York’s .550. Of the four teams in the race to be the crappy team who gets the seventh seed, the Seahawks’ schedule has been far more favourable.
Frankly, had they only won 4-5 games to this point — it’d actually be really bad given the opponents they’ve faced.
And I’ll mention again — Seattle is just 23-16 at home since 2018 and that’s with a 7-1 2021 record when they played a full year without fans. When the 12’s are actually in Lumen Field — since 2018 the team is only 16-15. That’s crazy.
These are all inconvenient truths that we can’t shy away from just because Geno Smith has played better than expected because aside from that, a lot of consistent problems remain.
If we don’t talk about them — if the media doesn’t talk about them — when will anything change?
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Nothing to worry about Rob, I’m sure Peter will get hard-edged questions at his presser today and we’ll get a detailed explanation as to why his defense stinks.
Yes, the win total this year has certainly exceeded my expectations. The defense has certainly not lived up to whatever small expectations I had for them and to your point, there doesn’t appear to be any righting of the ship.
(Bernie Sanders meme) – I’m once again asking what will it take for Pete Carroll to no longer be the head coach. I feel like Bill Murray in Groundhogs Day.
I’m leaning optimistic about drafting and developing after last years bounty. Perhaps we can attribute that to Schneider taking the reins and set high expectations for this coming draft.
TELL THE TRUTH MONDAY!!!!!! (probably a tradition that stopped inside the building a loooong time ago)
Said it before, RBs matter, and there is a place for them high up in the modern game.
Also I think we need to stop referring to the Giants win as a win against a poor team. They weren’t poor at the time.
Well they’ve been dreadful since that Seahawks game
Don’t see why we have to act like they weren’t just a team that got off to a reasonable start and then just showed what they are (and what we expected they would be). Just like us.
Rob, what would you think of a draft that consisted of Jalen Carter, DeMarvion Overshown the LB from Texas, and JL Skinner? The range where they could be taken will be heavily scrutinized along with their fit on the team.
But aside from Carter being a force on the interior, Skinner and Overshown are guys that fly around the field, make plays, and want to knock someone’s head off. Who even has that instinct on the current defense?
Well, I’ve talked about Skinner a lot and really like him. I need to see Overton test because his tape is a bit hit and miss and the feeling is he won’t test well so might be limited upside
This is exactly right. It’s amazing how many Seahawks’ fans are content with this BS. I’m sick of it.
A lot of those same fans constantly denied there was anything in the Wilson trade talk, constantly defended Russell and then when he was dealt, suddenly turned on him and now spend most of their time talking about his failure in Denver.
Fandom is a strange beast.
The same group will defend Carroll endlessly right up until he departs. They’ll also probably turn on him if the next guy comes in and succeeds in a way PC hasn’t over the last 5-6 years.
Reading comments on Twitter and other sites this morning is almost laughable because it so pathetic. Most think that because the Hawks have overachieved, it’s fine. Never mind the glaring issues that have popped up again for what seems like the 7th or 8th year in a row. Lots want to franchise Geno and/ or pay him $30M a year for 4+ years. Calling the offensive and defensive struggles have only occurred during the last month (ha!). Praising Pete Carroll 🤮. The OC/DC/position coaches change but the same problems pop up year after year. SMDH. The mere mention of replacing Pete comes with the reply of “who’s out there that’s better?” Well, no one had heard of Mike McDaniel before this year. Also, I can’t even name the HC of the Eagles w/o looking it up. Pretty sure no one heard of him before this season either.
This franchise is screwed as long as Carroll is the coach and Allen is the owner.
They should hang that banner.
2022….we were just a little better then we thought we’d be.
Not content with it, but resigned to it if the distinction makes sense.
Why? Because personally I always saw this as a several year process, even if Smith (or Lock) turned out to be serviceable.
It could be a 3-4 year turnaround, but thanks to Denver’s draft picks, it might be a couple of seasons. Last year’s draft was a very good step in the right direction and another few home runs in the 2023 draft will expedite things. However the great danger that always looms is not having a proper QB. Look at the aforementioned Denver franchise and their long pursuit of a proper QB.
We need a couple years to turn around a mess the guys running the turnaround created.
Insert : this is fine meme
Ha! Well said.
Kinda damned if you do, damned if you don’t: let them clean up their own mess or bring in someone to clear their mess up.
Not gonna lie, I’m torn on this.
The amount of articles and comments saying about how good the team is and how good the season is!! How can you be drinking so early?
I mean, it must be nice to just bury your head and keep it buried for years. Happy with effort last night, calling the defensive LINE good. Talent disparity not too bad. And confidence in beating the Chiefs and this defense slowing them down….
This is certainly starting to sound a bit tired and dated.
Especially when you consider the weak as piss schedule, the collapse of half of the NFC West and the recent terrible run.
We lost to the entire NFC South…our best win might end up being, the Lions? Who would probably beat us now. I got offered tickets to the Chiefs game and I said no. Would be my first Seahawks game, but why watch this product? Why watch a 13 year old that takes karate beat up a 7 year old that’s watched a YouTube video on how to punch?
I need to start selling timeshares. I know who to target.
Hate thinking about at 6-3 what a time to catch the collapsing NFC as a whole.
Another game. Another loss. Rebuild part 2 coming. Train keepa a rollin.
Firstly Rob, this is a brilliant piece. Courageous, cogent, concise, accurate.
But specifically to the point you raise about Mafe’s playing time. Is anything more emblematic of what appears to be Carroll selling out the team’s future for desperate (and ultimately meaningless) wins today?
Mafe may never be more than a bang-average starter. Or he may be the next team sack leader. Kinda hard to find out when he’s only getting a third of the available snaps, while the majority go to a dead end player — someone who won’t be on this team’s (or any other’s) roster after the end of the season.
And for what, exactly? What does Bruce Irvin give that Mafe doesn’t? Aside from the PFF scores (62.2 vs 60.5) here’s how their current season game stats compare:
Irvin – 2 sacks, 5 QB hits, 4 TFL, 16 solo, 25 total
Mafe – 2 sacks, 3 QB hits, 2 TFL, 23 solo, 33 total
Pretty much the same production from either player. Ok, Irvin may offer experience that might benefit a play here or there. But let’s be real: he’s not even affecting outcomes, let alone changing them. And don’t forget, Irvin offers this team ZERO benefit after this this season.
Meanwhile, Mafe provides the same level of defensive production as Irvin, but with only half the opportunities. Opportunities that should be giving Mafe invaluable experience to make him a better player, to make sure he’s more team sack leader than bang-average player.
I have been harping on this for a while.
“Always Compete” is a total load of BS.
You know he tempted Irvin back into playing by telling him he’s “his guy” and offered him the starting job no matter what
I like Waldron, the Waldron offense, the receivers and TE’s, Geno has outperformed by a long shot and the only reason we’re even 7-7, I like our runningbacks as well but why are they always injured? No matter who starts, they get injured, Rawls, Carson, Penny, Walker, Homer, Dallas. Is it the field turf? Why the team can’t spend the money for grass is beyond me. Would it even cost more? I almost want us to draft Bijan Robinson just so we have someone by midseason. I think the offense is a credit to Pete choosing an up and coming young coach.
The defense is a nightmare. There seems to be no plan or vision anymore. I really wish we would’ve gone after Dan Quinn after the Falcons fired him. I don’t see anyone else who can organize Pete’s defense. The only other option is Pete doing what he did on offense Waldon, finding a young up and comer with fresh ideas. Not holding my breath on that one. I’ve been giving Hurtt a chance, but my gut still says it was a terrible hire. He had never run a successful defense previously so…
The artificial turf argument has proven to be a false flag.
Arizona is grass, and the stats show equal injuries on both types of fields.
Let’s say Pete hangs it up and the end of the season. Who would be your top 5 hc candidates? And does that mean new staff too?
Well the obvious one is Sean Peyton for sure, just not sure he would want to come up to South Alaska!
Giving Dan Quinn or Gus Bradley another shot might work.
Poaching Demeco Ryans from our rivals would be pretty awesome – the 49ers defense is playing really well right now.
Not sure there are any college coaches ready to make the jump this year.
Peyton. He’s too old. Watched him on TV, he’s semi retired. Didn’t seem that the fires were burning in terms of joining a rebuild.
How can we tell that this roster is not good? Look at the depth. At most positions there is none. None that you want to have to depend on anyway. In some cases the starters wouldn’t be very good depth on some teams. There is depth at TE and probably at CB. Other than that, its not easy to think of depth that you can comfortably rely on.
I am rooting for this…
https://twitter.com/Joe_Fann/status/1603799272792915968
Leaving the team set up for the future, “in a good state.” I could see Pete liking riding off into the sunset.
I vote yes. A little happy that Joe at least mentioned it.
Just wish it would come true
Ready for something different. It’s been 13 years
FWIW Ben Allbright has been speculating on Twitter recently that PC might call it a day
If he does, do you think John Schneider would be gone as well and a complete do over? Would you want a new GM? Do you think Shane Waldron would make a good HC?
I always thought this would happen with the sale of the team, and the new owner bringing in all new people. Hard to tell how committed Jody Allen is to rebuilding the franchise, or if that’s anything she’s interested in at all, or maybe she doesn’t plan to sell for another decade. A lot up in the air.
I don’t think John is going anywhere
I think Carroll has been closer to going than anyone has thought for a while. There’s been too much smoke, including the Jay Glazer stuff at the end of the 2017 season
If Pete was going to quit he would have done it by now. He’ll ride out the contract through 2025.
I don’t see him being replaced until there is an obviously better head coach in hand. Unfortunately they are even rarer than great quarterbacks.
Not true
He was close to retiring in 2017
People think they know Pete but people also insisted they wouldn’t trade Wilson
He could have retired in 2917 but he didn’t. I think that shows his staying power and adds to my argument that he will complete the contract.
It doesn’t add to it Alaska
It simply shows he nearly walked away in 2017 and has probably considered it on other occasions since
Like I said, people act like they know PC’s mindset. Just like they said he’d never deal Wilson
In 2917 Pete will be coaching the Seattle Morlocks led by star quarterback Thundarr the Barbarian.
For me, I hope John stays. I think he would. He would finally get the control to do what he wants with personnel. I think Jody will keep him to make it easier for herself. She wants as little work to do with the team as possible.
I agree Jody would keep him.
Unpopular take….
What has John shown that he is the solution?
There’s this idea that all the good picks were McLoughlan and not Pete’s knowledge of the college ranks.
Then for almost a decade Pete made every bad pick, trade, and contract in a vacuum.
Then last year John finally comes out of a coma and drafts lucas and Pete’s prototype corner and all is well?
That seems so ridiculous that John has been undermined for a decade. And if that’s even true what is he collecting a paycheck for all this time?
Here’s all I know about John. He had direct information about a Wisconsin qb that nobody paid attention to. And he told all his friends -after the fact- that he as well really liked Allen and Mahomes. That’s it. Nobody even knows if the decent picks this year were actually him or if someone else in the scouting department.
Agree on the mystery. For me, I think it was the relationship and respect that they had for each other. It works and they understand the grass isn’t always greener.
I honestly thought John would have bolted for Green Bay a few years ago.
I think it was McLoughlan and John, but that is 100% on me. I wasn’t paying attention to the team, draft, and staff ANYWHERE NEAR what I do now.
And that is why I want to retain John: he SUPPOSEDLY had more say this last year, his in-season transactions have more or less been the best that they team has made, especially value-wise, and what we know about him and his interest in said quarterbacks.
It is odd. The whole coaching staff dynamic has been odd since Bradley and Bevell have left.
I bring up Mccloughan while I think he was great. It was a real advantage Pete had bringing in Sherman, getting Lynch, knowing about Wagner, drafting Earl over Taylor mays whom I think everyone and his mom thought Pete would draft, knowing about Brandon Browner.
Those were all players Pete would have had better knowledge than most.
I guess I worry about John because he and Pete have always to ne seemed fairly synced up together.
All I will say is there’s no need to diminish the role of the incumbents in that 2011 draft class. John played a defining part in the building of a fantastic roster.
Probably John is waiting — perhaps like a number of others — for Rodgers to retire before returning GB. It’s wiser to let the dust settle there before coming is with the cleaning crew. I mean rebuilding crew.
God of thunder I think nailed it.
John will go home to green bay when the other Rodgers isn’t in his life.
There’s no indication that the current GM will be leaving any time soon
Why wait though? Aaron is a complete pleasure of a person and wouldn’t be a headache similar to Mark Rogers……. :l
Why wait to miss that bit of daily joy?
There is no indication that the Packer GM is planning to leave … but the team has massively underachieved and there are multiple vectors of headache (existing and on the horizon). That is a franchise that could be rebuilding either with Rodgers or without him.
Rob,
I’m not saying John or Scott or someone else didn’t make a great roster. I just get a little worried when fans can’t explain a decade of weird to bad team building and think it’s just one guy and not allparties involved.
I will say that last night when they would put the camera on Pete was the first time I can remember thinking “Wow, Pete looks old”. Usually he looks energetic and running along the sidelines, bouncing all over the place. Seemed like last night he was more frustrated and just looked tired…I don’t ever remember seeing him look like that during a game.
It seems like he really has no answers.
When we have a decent couple of games, Pete comes across as unreasoably optimistic about the ramifications.
Like…he is desperately hoping that it means we are really better than we are.
All he can do is hope at this point. Apparently he is at a loss as to how to actually fix the problems.
Hard to know how to comment on the Seahawks obvious problems. It’s been quite a long time since the Seahawks were in the superbowl. Time in which they have slowly deteriorated, farther and farther.
Once in awhile we have the hope of a good draft, but will last years picks grow into quality starters? At least four I like, but four doesn’t make a team. By my calculations it will take at least two more drafts and veteran signings to really turn the team around. I think that is becoming evident now that we see the age of our starters. Even high quality players like Lockett will retire eventually.
Who do we have to guide us? I’m afraid it’s Pete “I got my contract” Carroll. I still think his best talent is motivating players. I’m not sure that he should be in charge of anything else.
This is a good overall view of the current state of the Seahawks.
When the Seahawks were on that winning streak, a lot of people were calling for Pete to win coach of the year. I pushed back on that and caught a lot of flak for it on another blog site. It seems difficult for fans to take a long term view of the team and see that the Seahawks were barely beating bad to mediocre teams. The team was winning so everyone in the Seahawks should win all of the awards. We are far enough into this season to be able to judge what this team is, and that is mediocre.
“I pushed back on that and caught a lot of flak for it on another blog site.”
What?!? There’s another blog site? Doubt if it is as good as this one!
I was rooting for Geno Smith to be the next miracle, somehow Pete pulled another quarterback out of his yoo hoo. I still think Geno is pretty darn good and better than we could hope for from a rookie.
But that gets back to the offense and drafting and why can’t the Seahawks put together a better offensive line and why do our star running backs suffer so many injuries? This really does remind me of when Wilson played without a decent running back. History on repeat here!
Geno has played us into a horrific position. Had the early run lasted til now, it’s a no brainer to commit to him. Conversely, his play hasn’t dropped off so much that it’s easy to move on.
It’s truly a terrible situation, IMO. He’s not young enough or great enough to say “no brainer.” I hate this attitude, but it really feels like no matter what decision we make (on him), it will inevitably be the wrong one.
That is why they probably need to sign him and build some potential outs into the contract.
Geno cooling off actually might benefit the Seahawks. They can sign him and not take as big a hit on the cap and he can be the bridge QB.
Good points. What I keep coming back to is that I just flat out don’t trust PC anymore. I can see him making a downright horrific decision in this one…something akin to “we needed to commit both time and money to show our belief in Geno.”
I find myself wondering about Lock in all of this. We know that the team is up against financial constraints. Envision a scenario in which the team is not as ruthless as it could be regarding the safety position, dealing with one safety but not the other. If it becomes financially impossible to re-sign Geno, are they confident in Lock as the starter and drafting a young QB (but not a top 3 one) to be the backup. In a scenario like this can they look forward to 2023 with any semblance of confidence.
It is entirely possible they have been grooming Lock like Geno this year and plan to take another cheap QB swing with him in 2023.
This is just my opinion. I don’t want Lock. I think he was nothing more than a throw in in the trade. To me he hasn’t done anything to have hope. Couldn’t beat out anyone in Denver.
If they go with him, to me it’s a set back and not a shot at winning. Good kid, just not a quarterback that I see any hope with.
That being said, I have a gut feeling that Pete will bring them both back and think that is good enough.
I’m going to say something wildly unpopular here…I hope the Broncos find a way to to get to pick 5 or 6.
Now why would I say such a thing? Candidly…I can’t stand the thought of Jalen Carter or Will Anderson being utterly misused in a bad scheme. I love both players. I have ZERO faith PC would use them to their full capability. I don’t think I could handle a season where a potentially generational DL talent gets used like Brian Mone or Boye Mafe. It makes me physically ill thinking about that.
Or only get them 20% of snaps
All good thoughts Rob.
I’ll add that the pass rush the last few games has dropped off a cliff as well.
They got 4 sacks and 9 pressures against the Rams, granted.
But sacks their last 4 games other than that? 0, 1, 2, 1
Pressures have sunk like a stone as well. They stand at 18.9% for the season, good for 25th in the NFL, and I’ll wager that when the pressures for last night’s game are added in, they’ll go down even further.
Weekly Win Wish List:
New Orleans
Arizona !!
Los Angeles Rams
This is inevitably going to come back around to the draft also, this offseason.
They had a nice 2022 draft; its laurels kind of come down to hitting Lucas in the 3rd (to the elation of this site) and Woolen in the 5th. Nice draft, no doubt.
Against this we have a lot of contrary track record, and as Rob notes, that includes the free agent selections as well, including some of the same head-scratching investments in this past offseason.
In addition to the on-field overperformance, such as it is, a lot of the fandom is living in the “they got their groove back” or “Schneider controls the draft and he’s the real brains” place … which in turn licenses an assumption that they’re destined for a 2010-2012-esque heater that powers up the future roster like a Mario mushroom. This expectation permits a cavalier attitude about many of the issues Rob raises — hey, we’re playing with house money, everything else is about to get fixed thanks to the Broncos.
Maybe, hopefully. But a null assumption might be that the gang found a plus 2022 draft rather randomly and that with the distance of another year or two, after a couple more L.J. Colliers and Dee Eskridges and no lucky (because as much credit as they deserve for the picks, luck plays a factor) lightning strikes from the later rounds, we might well eventually see the ’22 draft as a local maximum in the center of a slough.
With the team’s situation as it stands now, and the Denver picks in pocket, huge calls to be made at QB and coaching staff … this is a pivotal offseason for the franchise and for the future rep of PCJS.
At this point you absolutely cannot say the team overachieved this season. They overachieved for a month. The rest of the year they underachieved. They will definitely lose next week and probably lose to the Jets who can run, and have a mean D.
That’s why I hope they start playing a lot of the underused players in the Jets and Rams games.
Give those players snaps to see what they can do. The Jets will be a tough opponent and the Rams will still have guys like Mayfield and Wagner looking to prove a point.
I guess it all comes down to Seattle possibly being eliminated from the playoffs after Christmas.
Here is possibly a dream scenario for the Seahawks.
https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/nfl-draft-2/2023-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-bryce-young-leads-qb-revival/
I mean, I think this has to be the plan. Somehow, make it happen.
Whew. Peter King says everything is OK.
I was worried there for a minute.
https://youtu.be/-E_QX_3RiLU
Yeah, Peter, closing out the season by possibly losing 7 of their last 8 games, including 5 in a row at the end…
Next year is looking just fine because high draft picks are a guaranteed thing? With how many holes on the roster?
The new header for the blog?
As much as things change they remain the same.
Hey, who doesn’t like a 10-year-old banner
I love it.
Honestly.
This whole place still works and feels a million times better than .net, walter, over the cap, heck most places.
Also is Lapland a Staton family tradition? Seems like you’ve gone a few times now at xmas.
No, first time. We had to cancel last minute a year ago because my wife fell ill
Got it! Hope it rules.
It will be ideal if Pete retires new coach gets to decide on priority with top pick. Pete please do the favor and call it good go with dignity.
I think Pete has gone 100% completely STALE, living in the past & is unwilling to change. IMO- The best possible solution is for Pete to just retire and go back to California. NEW coaches that know what the heck they are doing would go a long way toward building this team into a contender again.
Ideally, Pete retires at the end of the season and leaves the draft picking to the new coaches. The Seahawks picks MIGHT just be enough additional incentive to attract a quality new head coach with fresh eyes & new ideas on how to properly run a franchise. In the event of Pete’s retirement, I’d expect JS to be retained & leaned on heavily by Jody to pick the next head coach. Next season, if PC is still in charge, nothing will change, and it’ll be same old, same old mediocre team. Please Pete, get your retirement gold watch and then consider finding a rocking chair.
We Seahawk fans deserve a more competitive team.
But you probably weren’t saying that when we were on that winning streak and running the ball and the D playing well.
For four games
Press Conf w Pete
“We played a lot better on defense. Some misplayed moments in that game, and that’s all it took. Unfortunately they got a couple easy ones.”
[q Condotta]. Surgery for Tyler? “Very optimistic view from the docs this morning. Good success, maybe pull off something that surprises us.”
[q]. Going away to have surgery? As you described it last night? “Yes. Precisely. It’s his left hand.”
[q Michael S-D]. Brooks’ neck? “All pics negative, good sign. Soreness. Process to alleviate discomfort, no structural issues. Hope to play vs KC.”
[q] Al Woods next week? “Hopefully, won’t know until next week.”
[q Mueller]. Effort from team? “Complete effort. Championship matchup, everyone across the board going.”
[q Tim]. Kittle busted play, Woolen? “Supposed to be back playing zone, chased WR down side. He’s sick about it. So disappointed. If he does what he is supposed to do, they don’t even throw the ball.”
[q]. Just a rookie mistake? “Feels like he let guys down. Made an error that cost us. This is a moment for him. hopefully, continues to accept responsibility he has. Took it the right way, do everything not to let it happen again. Corner is a tough world out there. Learning moment. Better because of it.”
[q Gregg Bell]. How many Woolen assignment errors? “Not too often. Gotten away with a couple. Easy fundamental play. So many things young guys see something, gotta go through process and learn. he has so far.”
[q]. Too aggressive? “No just didn’t play the call.”
[q] Lockett surgery where? “You wanna guess the state?”
[q]. Two days early for central time zone KC game? “Yeah.”
[q Bob Condotta]. What do at wR with Lockett out? “Use guys to their strengths. Goodwin played well, leaning on him is a good idea. Tight ends too. You said Lockett out two weeks, who said two weeks?”
[q Michael S-D]. Why can’t run the ball the way you want to? “I’m disappointed too. It just hasn’t’ happened for us. Can’t find rhythm of it. Knocked off it at LOS. Shane and I talk, stay with it and keep pounding. 3 and 4 yards ok, just keep it.”
[q]. Impacting Geno? “Impacts the whole game.”
[q John Boyle]. How good is Geno second half bounce back? “Wasn’t enough but you could tell we were more confident. They minimize downfield stuff. We had to keep sticking with efficiency. Didn’t, caused problems. Geno gave us a chance.”
[q Maz Veda]. See from linebackers? “Tanner nice job. Couple good hits. Happy for him. I thought guys up front stayed with scheme really well. Forced issues, gave backers a chance. Uchenna always good for us. Quite a few at perimeter, guys ran the ball down all night.”
[q]. Recognize the play quicker running outside? “Fit the preparation. Looked better throughout the night. Continued to play them well. Couple that got away, but really solid night.”
[q Tim]. Ken Walker ok today? “Sore today, extra days will help. Rest helps. At least 3 days. Monday chance to bounce back, don’t expect any probs.”
[q]. Mone? “ACL confirmed. Mixing and matching on DL now. Spend some time on it.”
[q Brady Henderson]. How effect you losing inside DL? “Poona moved inside, Adams got involved. Different style. Did alright, held their own. Myles had a couple active plays. Poona always good work.”
[q]. Deejay? “Legit high ankle sprain. Make a turn by Wed next week to get a feel. Race against it, legit high ankle.”
[q Gregg Bell]. What sustainable about D now? “Chance in last 3 games to make a little bit of a move. Improved but then dipped, consistency not there. Way guys played, showed us more on track than have been.”
[q]. Talk to team about playoffs or just next game? “Of course we have opp. Means nothing unless we nail this game and the next game.”
So it’s injury updates and joking with the press.
Said it before and I’ll say it again: the only thing that rivals Pete Carroll and the defense’s performance is the Seattle press corps’.
NEW RULE
No more questions that begin with “how good is”
Seriously, just stop
I know.
Not a slight on Geno but it wasn’t good.
‘Bounce back?’
They didn’t win. So who cares. Some of these pressers have the urgency of a kids soccer pizza party.
You ever been to a Chuck E. Cheese with a youth soccer team?
Absolute chaos and an absolute must watch for entertainment.
These pressers are more like an office pizza party. A lot of useless talk about crap everyone already talked about at the last pizza party.
Chaos, totally.
Urgency…I mean end of the year awards for kids that tried their hardest. Nothing wrong with it but not the intensity I need from a press corps when the team is floundering.
I’m struggling to find a context where this applies to last night’s game.
Unless Pete’s saying that was their super bowl 🤷🏻♂️
Aim high!
Blitzy what’s not to get?
Did they or did they not play a championship game in 2013 with entirely different rosters and something like 59 out of 60 different coaches?
Always compete. Always. Compete.
Also two superbowls in one year? Sounds good to me. A meager win against a down trodden broncos to kick off tge year and a butt whooping to limp out the season.
Maybe we can get custom shirts?
2022 Seahawks “we tried really hard and went 1-1 in our own superbowls”
Maybe a trophy that says “we beat Wilson”.
Last year: russ sucks and I know it
This year: see, see I told ya
Next year:…..( if the team stays steady on mediocrity,)….is it time we finally started to talk about what is actually happening in seattle?
How long can he just get away with saying this?
As long as the press continues to ask soft questions.
I will believe Pete when he gets rid of entire defensive coaching staff and 100% of the roster minus rookie contacts. this piece meal approach is baffling.
It is criminal that Pete tried to fit players in to a brand new scheme while he was allowed time to do full rebuild. it can be understood if this is his final year and attempted something.
Bobby Wagner PFF this year- 90.7
PFF has always loved Bobby
There were too many moments last year, highlighted at the time, for me to second guess that call. They made the right decision.
They just need to do the same with a couple of safeties this off-season.
I agree with you- it was time to move on. I’ve watched him a couple times this year and I can’t say that he looks sufficiently any better than last year.
But I also tend to trust PFF within a reasonable variance. If his rating has improved this much, then I’d conclude the scheme/other personnel is helping him. Conversely, our scheme isn’t helping anyone, and certainly not him last year.
It might just be Aaron Donald
Do you see DL (Harris? Woods, Ford) draft prospects that can be equivalent to Cross and Lucas, and be an upgrade even if not game wreckers.
* Bobby has a demonstrated record of playing well when behind a good DL
* Your defensive QB plays better when he gets clear scheme focus from the coaches’ room
* Revenge is a powerful motivator
* The Ram defense is not overall materially improved with him
He’s making $2.5m on the cap this year. He has a clause that guarantees his 2023 salary a week into the league year that would lock in a $12.5m cap hit.
We will see what the Rams think of a 90 PFF rating at MLB for a season at that point.
I’m now on board with a new coaching staff. Pete’s success should be admired. Few coaches achieve what he has. I’ve been harping on the lack of any sign of improvement from the defense, but last night was a stark reminder of how big the gap is between the Hawks and a very good team, and a reminder of the issues that have been plaguing this team for a while now.
On offense:
-the stated devotion to the run game, but then never establishing any sort of rhythm for the back(s) to get going
-interior of the o-line getting bowled over
-slowly developing pass plays against a top-tier pass rush leading to sacks and 2nd/3rd and long
-SCREENS
-the solid drive where the play calls are on point followed by multiple head-scratching possessions
Defense:
-bizarre on-field personnel decisions (see: Irvin’s snap count)
-completely out-schemed (but not with anything particularly special)
-making a 2nd/3rd/4th string QB look great
-not covering TEs
Overall:
-dumb plays like Taylor leaping offsides
-a fire in individuals, but not a sense of that from any particular unit as a whole
-(and plenty more I am forgetting)
This is the perfect time for a staff change over. Pete can leave with the team not in a free fall or a total disaster. A better than expected season, good young talent, and a lot to build with.
I was screaming with Taylor jumped, are you playing high school foot ball. They did punt so didn’t matter but shows maturity of the player. That drop from Digs and fumble from Homer changed the game. instead of 7-10 it was 14-3 followed by 21-3 after half time.
The Boye Mafe snap count is ridiculous. There’s no wonder they haven’t been able to build a proper Dline when they keep trotting Benson Meyowa and Bruce Irvin out there on every play like they’re Khalil Mack.
My question is: If Jody Allen was a more active owner, or hired a guy to manage from the ownership position would Seahawks have got this bad? Jerry Jones has no problems butting into team decisions. You may say it hurt the team, but what if Jerry was running the Seahawks? Maybe they need an owner to put their foot down.
Russ is out against the Cardinals.
So there is still a chance for the second pick.
Russ is out against the Cardinals. so there is a chance Broncos can win 🙂 LOL
Telling…
Agreed.
It’s telling reviewing their roster to ours and seeing how bad we are.
The broncos have absolutely sucked this year. I also think it’s a good idea to not play wilson who has completely bombed when you are missing multiple starting and back up olinemen, multiple runningbacks, and a handful of starting WR’s.
Meanwhile…..our team is a piddly 7 wins with losing multi year non factor Penny and KW3 for a game….and that’s it. That’s the sum total of major injuries Seattle has had to “overcome,” this season. Up til this week.
I know we are also missing JA’s 3 sacks a season output. So I guess that’s it.
I’d like to see more of Taylor Muse and Myles Adams. Muse is smaller than Brooks and Barton, but he seems more instinctive. How about rotating him in more often.
Adams was our best penetrating DL in the preseason, and made a couple of plays in this game. He does not have the heft of some of the others, but he seems to make things happen.
Adams had an excellent pre season even though we struggle in DLIne he was never given chance. Agree with Rob, it is all about competition is BS.
Why not play Myles, Blount, Muse etc? (Along with Mafe and whomever else). It just doesn’t make sense.
Seems to me what we’re seeing is mostly the product of 5 or 6 years of bad drafts. The most recent one shows promise, but the years before that were pretty barren outside of DK and a Punter. It has caused a lot of over paying for guys like Diggs (there were numerous Safeties drafted who didn’t pan out), QJeff, Mone, Gabe Jackson, Blythe, et.al,, a horrible trade for Adams, a 3rd on Barton who’s obviously not a good NFL player. Add to that some head scratching focus on playing vets over young guys, changing a defensive scheme but not acquiring players to fit it and you get the downward spiraling we see now.
The saddest thing of all, I’m to the point where I’ve given up on this regime ever getting this team even back to an NFCCG let alone a Super Bowl. The holes in the roster and lack of depth is too much to overcome for at least 2 mode seasons.
Hey Jody, fan apathy is actually worse than fan anger and it’s creeping over the fanbase steadily.
Excellent piece Rob. Great writing.
Coaching and Roster. Plenty of replies on coaching and staff/scheme decisions – clearly this is on Pete.
Can also we go deeper on roster? This roster is full of holes, lacks depth and is the product of years of failure.
Yes, great early drafts by John and Pete. Was it McCloughan, Pete’s college familiarity, John? Who knows – probably a little of all of the above. McCloughan repeated what he’d already successfully done in SF. Pete did have extensive knowledge of young players and John was squarely the middle of it. But what about after the knowledge faded, and McCloughan had left?
What we know is that after a couple of great early drafts, we had 9 years of mostly draft failure. And mostly bad off-season moves.
What is draft failure? Subjective, but most experts seem to agree that you need at least 3 starters or better each year just to keep roster pace. This out of an average 7 picks/year. Many say you need 4 or more “meaningful” players to really start to build an above average roster.
For the 9 years from 2013 to 2021, the Seahawks drafted 80 players. During this span, they had an average of 2.1 players/year that became consistent starters (19 total). This excludes occasional starters such as Christiane Michael, Phil Haynes or Ugo Amadi. And the Pro Bowlers drafted in those 9 years? 4 (Lockett, Griffin, Dickson, and Metcalf). Our first rounders in this period: Ifedi, Penny, Collier, and Brooks.
I’d submit that we’ve had 4 “meaningful” picks in those 9 years: Lockett, Carson, Dickson and Metcalf. In summary, we’ve drafted at 50% below the rate of what it takes to be average and had a meaningful pick less than every other year for 9 years.
I won’t go into trades during this period necessitated by weak drafts. But, I think it goes without saying that with a couple of smaller trade exceptions, there were some huge whiffs, and it’s mostly exacerbated the roster problem.
So, where are we at? I’m excited about the home runs from 2022, and disheartened by how many more years of home run drafts we’ll have to have just to get back to an average NFL roster. This roster was decimated over a LONG period of time. And it’s going to take awhile to fix it.
It’s on John too.
Fantastic post. Thank you for putting numbers to what I was saying in my post above yours. Drafting, drafting, drafting. You gotta do it well to sustain excellence in a salary cap league. Seattle has not only not done it well, they’ve basically shit the bed on it.
Pete has to see how long this will take. Maybe that’ll spur him to step down. My pinion is that’s very, very unlikely but stranger things have happened.
Yup. Hitting a great draft every 10 years and a great player less than every other year? I think any of us could do better just by using Rob’s board and auto pick.
It’s a strange combination of trading picks looking for that “final piece” (Jimmy Graham, Sheldon Richardson, Percy Harvin., etc.), picking for need rather than BPA when their needs don’t match the available talent, and thinking they are the smartest guys in the room.
Yes sir. Another nail hit on the head.
I think they got caught trying to find that final piece and didn’t realize the rest was slowly eroding. Now still looking for that final piece still and trying o replace everything else that fell apart along the way.
And paying for the wrong players like Adams and Diggs.
I like how you kept being it back to the Al Woods quote, as it encapsulates the Pete philosophy. Great writing man.
Sorry not Al Woods, Big Red.
I think we avoided a worst case scenario this season, but also obviously avoided a best case one too. I think if they go and we end up with largely the same roster, plus draft choices next year, that’ll mark the end of the regime within the year. The way the team is built needs a tear down before we can build, which the quandre contract in particular sticks out as a huge mistake last off-season. It just sucks that we have to deal with MORE dead cap money just because we wanted another middling season rather than biting the bullet on a roster with so many holes.
It’s undoubtedly more complicated. I imagine that the Seahawks were drafting to keep Wilson happy and keep the dream alive. The 49ers have tanked at least twice over the Carroll reign. They’ve hit on some but also had some first round picks that were marginal. Now that Russell is gone let’s see what they can do.
The team kept RW happy by overdrafting guys on defense? You must be kidding.
They didn’t took at least 5 sensible 2nd ir 3rd round RT options Rob has made I could name you instantly, four of them have made it in the NFL.
What would the draft record of the Seahawks look like without the one “comforting” WR pick in DK Metcalf? In retrospective, they starved him of resources, every year, the receivers and running backs picked got a little crappier.
People will tell us it is because he took 20% of the cap. The same franchise pays equal money to a pair of safeties, and record numbers to an aging MLB.
I think, what is more complicated is the explanation for why the defense despite numerous investment is plainly bad, and cannot get off the field.
You literally wrote my response sentence as I was reading the first comment.
How did they draft for the former qb in 2017 when every player but Chris Carson was a bust or by the time their contract was up was no longer with the team?
I’m sure it was #3 who told the FO not to draft TJ Watt and THEN a few picks later when you can draft Buddha Baker not to do that….wait a round and then draft three (!!!) Safeties who all busted off the team.
No need for a center. Get an older WR who is injury prone. No need to draft chubb, williams, or Jonathan Taylor who was literally on TV saying he wants to be a hawk.
Think a little more realistic is the former QB bailed them out for a whole bunch of years and frankly it let the drafting get suspect to crappy.
No no you guys, don’t let facts get in the way of all that Wilson hate flowing through the fan base.
Watching the SF game it was apparent that while the “Niners talent was better, so was their attitude. Where were the signs of “the great motivator”? As well, the efforts of the better team seem to coordinate, while our efforts seemed disjointed. I saw effort, but it was too often singular.
My question is: why aren’t the players turning on Pete and this defensive scheme? It’s obviously not working and makes them look terrible, plus nobody likes losing. Hurtt, for all his apparent faults as a DC, at least seems like an upfront guy one could openly voice one’s concerns with.
I’m just afraid Pete has made himself untouchable and jettisoned anyone willing to stand up to him and push back a bit.
Well, it’s either that or they are actually buying his take that they are just a few tweaks/learning curve away from making this defense legit, which I simply refuse to believe in the case of professionals who have been playing football their entire lives. If we see it, there’s no way they don’t. So when will the frustration finally boil over…?
I don’t think he’s untouchable
At least not any more
The players he overdrafted by two rounds and gave lots of money to? Or the players who are barely NFL caliber? Or Mr Peacock, whom he traded for and paid him in the following contract year?
They are all Pete’s guys. And I fear, ultimately, cronyism is a major problem for the franchise. Players are not held accountable. Forget about coming to the Seahawks as a DC.
Question: do you really believe, the team spends time this week to iron out mistakes made in the Niners game? Going to the video room, getting on the field, making replays, to learn, to improve?
Such a move would destroy PCs coaching narrative. We are the brightest, you are the toughest, together we will dominate, it was a bad day, next up.
I haven’t found a better explanation for why this defense as a unit is consistently bad.
And to the people telling us , the second half against the Niners were a revelation. The Niners did, what they needed to do. By halftime, they were a banged up team in control of the clock, having clinch the NFCW and from now on playing for 2nd or 3rd spot. We will see a lot of core player protection from them in the last three games.
The Hawks roster was such a mess and so bereft of young talent that it will take 3 good drafts to turn them into Super Bowl contenders. They pulled it off starting in 2010 with a draft very similar to 2022 and now need to follow that up this off season. They have the draft capital now they need to take advantage of it.
2010 Seahawks draft Russel Okung, Earl Thomas, Golden Tate, Walter Thurmond, Kam Chancellor : 7-9
2011 Seahawks draft KJ Wright, Richard Sherman, Byron Maxwell, Malcolm Smith : 7-9
2012 Seahawks draft Bruce Irvin, Bobby Wagner, Russell Wilson, Robert Turbin, Jeremy Lane : 11-5
Drafting zero DL (Bruce Irvin, SAM)
Looking over the 2013 defense, there isn’t one single player that I’d replace with someone on the 2022 roster. Not one.
The offense that year wasn’t great, but even those players stack up with the current talent level.
I’d replace Browner with Woolen, and Giacomini with Lucas.
I think you could add DK Metcalf and possibly Lockett as well. I think that Lockett is slightly better than Baldwin was, although it is awfully close.
Could you imagine DK and Locket with Baldwin working the slot… 🤤
As Rob has pointed out so many times, we could really use a WR3 upgrade.
Until Pete steps down, things will remain the same, or get worse.
Hey Rob got a quick question for you what is your thoughts on Ken Dorsey as head coach if Pete steps down was a QB coach at Carolina when cam won MVP and now he is offense coordinator for the buffalo bills.he is 42 years old . Just a thought
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7quyQ-N_cYM&t=431s&ab_channel=ThatFranchiseGuy
Here’s a video that puts plainly, and with video evidence, what Rob has been saying about the failure of the Fangio scheme around the league. Three key weaknesses of the scheme highlighted that we are all too familiar with in Seattle: giving up long dink and dunk drives, terrible run D, and massive coverage busts due to highly complex match rules.
Interesting video, Henry. I wonder what the weaknesses are of the 4-3 defense we used to run.
Watching the Vikings/Colts game and it’s looking all to familiar with the Vikings defense getting destroyed
That is a great video.
Helps explain why the Seahawks get carved up by backup QBs.
thanks for posting this. the last five or so minutes of this video are particularly worrisome. sure, pete carroll is a defensive head coach. but he’s not a great defensive mind; he is elite at creating culture. sean ‘the doctor’ desai came to seattle with a reputation of being an great communicator, not a defensive guru. after 15 weeks the players still seem lost — they certainly don’t look like they want to be playing defense. meanwhile, clint hurtt… wants pass rushers to rush the passer. how’s that working out? i’m not confident that this staff has the knowledge it needs to adapt, let alone innovate.
The answer is obvious, even if you don’t want to go there. The only way out of this mess is to fire Pete Carroll. He’s the one who created the situation that we’re in and like you said, why should we trust and to rebuild the team again. They need to hire a coach like Dan Quinn, who can actually coaches defense and draft a quarterback number two overall. If they blow this draft pick and take some position player instead of a QB, it’ll be 10 years before this team can win again. They have a once in a generation opportunity to get a top flight quarterback prospect. If they let Pete Carrol execute this pick, it will be just as bad as LJ Collier or Malik McDowell picks were.
I hope Carroll is watching the lowly Colts hang 23 unanswered points on Ed Donatell’s version of Vic Fangio’s 3-4 defense. And that’s WITHOUT Jonathan Taylor!
Haven’t we seen enough proof of failure of concept?
30 unanswered points and it’s not even halftime
Yesterday a coworker and I went down the list of possible Broncos pick spoilers and the Colts were glaring at us.
NOT ANYMORE!
Man I hope that top pick that everyone is stoked on actually matters.
Well done on jinxing the Colts.
More likely Cousins has a contract, newly signed in blood at halftime, with a certain L. Morningstar.
Up to 33-0 in the 3rd. A Colts win would help create some buffer in the draft order. I am also hoping Minn wins the following two weeks then rests their players against Chi in the last regular season game.
I totally agree with what you’re saying. Watching the Vikings defense is almost exactly watching the Seahawks defense. There’s hardly any difference. As Rob has pointed out to us several times, it’s the Vic Fangio scheme that no other coach can duplicate. Throwing a bunch of draft picks seems like it won’t fix the Seahawks, Vikings defenses. It’s not that easy. The Vikings have talent on the D-line and it doesn’t matter— they can’t stop the run.
I hope the Seahawks do as Rob is suggesting and scrap this Fangio defensive scheme and move on to something different.
Enjoying this game aside from the time Seattle magic-ed up something exciting for a few weeks and I thought the vikings could be a team I’d love the hawks to face in the post season.
Oh well. We’ll always have the 6-3 part of the season. Now all we need:
Scheme
Lb’s
A way to run consistently
A way to stop the run
A way to rush the passer
Not get burnt by backups
Ways to stop long quarter killing drives
That’s it.
Well thought out piece and I appreciate the thoroughness of examples specifically to firing Pete rather than the usual … we suck let’s fire the coach.
Having said that. I disagree.
The entire NFL is setup for good teams to regress due to salary cap issues and lack of high draft picks. This is the case with the hawks. The Niners, for example, main stalwart is Bosa on defense. To get guys like a Bosa brother, miles garret or the elite of elite pass rusher you typically need a top 5 pick. Due to Pete and John’s success they have had one to 10 pick since their first year and that was due to a masterful trade.
The reason the defense changed was due to a changed NFL with passing being dominant. That is why teams have moved to two high safeties. And for all the hawks struggles the pass defnese has been ok (without a pass rush). They also did a pretty good job against the Niners on defense as the game really turned on the turnover.
I would’ve been more interested in letting Pete go this off-season, but now that we crushed the 2022 draft, the entire NFC west has mortgaged their futures on the present. The hawks are setup incredibly well for the future. Next year will be another battle with the Niners for the division but the next two years the hawks will be favored. No reason to change course when the future is that bright.
I certainly believe that it is also fair to ask who? A team like the jaguars have had every advantage the NFL can give them to be good with a plethora of high draft picks. No success. Why?
There can be success stories like Nik Sirianni in Philly this year but those are rare. Much more likely for new coaches to underwhelm that exceed.
PC and JS have made their mistakes. PC especially will never change and go for 4th downs correctly or use challenges timeouts properly. But I bet if you looked at PFF grades prior to Seattle and post Seattle you will see a coaching bump. You also have a guy with the incredible talent to take a chance on a too short QB, or a too big CB, or starting a raw prospect from a small school. There’s a reason Pete found Russ, Sherm, woolen, because he has the courage and vision to see it while no one else does. This also leads to some failures tho. You got to take the good with the bad.
Anyways, good article but I’m in support of Pete and John and giving them at least 3 more years.
Cheers
There are so many holes in this counter I don’t know where to start.
To quote Bill Parcells: “You are what your record says you are.”
Coaches don’t recover and suddenly get better after stringing this many poor seasons together. This team has a handful of talented players and a bunch of backups starting. It is time to move on from Carroll. Give him a good cheer for the great run we had including a SB win, and move on to a more innovative mind.
The hawks have the 5th most wins in NFL since Carroll has been HC and made the playoffs 9 out of those 12 years. We will see what happens this year but as of now they have a decent shot.
There are probably a couple organizations in football that can compete with that and that’s about it.
So he is what the record says? Well I would agree … pretty good!
They’ve also won the NFC West ONCE in the last six years. That season, they were unceremoniously dumped out of the playoffs in the wildcard round by the LA Rams, virtually rendering the division title pointless.
They have three measly playoff wins since 2015. Three. Against the Lions, the Vikings (thanks to Blair Walsh) and against the Eagles fielding a 40 year old backup QB.
Their home record in front of fans since 2018 is 16-15. Dreadful.
They haven’t had a good defense in YEARS. Carroll’s preferred philosophy disappeared when Marshawn and the LOB called it a day.
Well done to the Seahawks for knowing when to move on from Russ. But he carried Seattle through years of a crap roster and Geno is doing something similar now.
So yeah, by all means include wins from a decade ago to pad our ‘win stats’. The reality is this team hasn’t done much of anything for a long, long time under Carroll.
How about O’Cyrus Torrance with our native pick? Let’s add some BAMFs to the o line.
Not for me
Added appreciation for this article.
Today’s stories post-PC-press conference are all about
1) Tyler Lockett and his hand and how soon he will be back
2) That Tariq Woolen blew one assignment
So now we have furthered the “the defense is young” narrative and the Seahawks have a built-in excuse for when they lose again. This defense is still emerging, and the offense is missing Tyler and he’s such a big cog you just cannot replace him.
Never mind the problems running the ball and stopping the run.
How I see it:
–Priority #1 – Fix the damn DL, the team needs this more than a QB – IMO.
–Priority #2 – Draft a “potentially great” QB to red shirt his first year like teams did years ago.
QB-Will Levis, QB-Anthony Richardson & QB-Hendon Hooker – in that order is how I personally rank the early round QB’s. However, due to the fact that priority one is, -or should be- the DL, I’m expecting that the Seahawks MAY consider selecting DT-Jalen Carter first & an EDGE/pass rusher with their 2-nd first & then: with their 3-rd pick in the draft select whichever QB might fall, the most likely available would obviously be —> Hendon Hooker.
With this in mind I rewatched Hookers films & rechecked his stats. I was impressed with the tapes that I watched. Perhaps inconsistent and a bit raw but I see a lot of potential for Hooker fitting into the Seahawks offense rather well. He would very likely benefit significantly from a full red-shirt first NFL season while learning practicing and developing (hopefully with good coaching).
As to his stats, the first thing I noticed is Hooker was SEC offensive player of the year = impressive.
2022 Stats:
69.6% completion % #1 in SEC & #6 in NCAA.
175.5 passing efficiency, #1 in SEC, #2 in NCAA.
#1 in NCAA with 9.5 pass yds per attempt, —- #10 in NCAA (*since 1956*) w/career 9.5 PY/A
#1 in NCAA with 10.9 adj. pass yds. per attempt. —- #8 in NCAA (*since 1956*) w/career 10.6 AY/A
Arm strength would seem to be a +++ with numerous long balls thrown to reach these averages.
Hooker is 6-4/218, has a strong arm (although he needs a few tweaks) and he is a bigtime threat to run the ball. He’s +/- half a foot taller than RW so the “seeing over the line” issue would be solved. Hooker seems to have a lot of desirable qualities that I think would fit very well with the PC – Seahawk style of offense.
Just tossing this out there that I came across from Lance:
Will he even get drafted I wonder?
https://mobile.twitter.com/minakimes/status/1603606482313953281
Wow Minnesota has rallied from 30-0 and 36-7 to tie Indy at 36 with a couple of minutes left in the game
Matt Ryan. The master of blowing big leads…
I’d really like to get Carter, Siaki Ika and Brandon Joseph at safety. I don’t expect Ford or Diggs to be back next year because for whatever reason (scheme change?) they are not playing up to their contracts. I think Joseph can eventually be better than Diggs and if we stick with the 3-4 it’d be nice to get a monster NT like Ika.
But why stick with the 3-4? It’s a mess
Seahawks once again facing the same problems and Southgate retained as England manager. Dreadful days.
The big question I have is, does Pete Carroll still see this as a rebuild? I believe at one point he did, but he was feeling himself way too much for a brief stretch that I believe that’s changed. That’s why you prefer playing Bruce over the rookie. It’s maintenance time, no more rebuild, no more risk taking, we gotta make the playoffs for Pete Carroll’s legacy which I think he cares a lot about. Pretty obvious at this point he heard all the noise about him, and is trying to stick it to people. Right now he won the RW trade, but you have to wonder in a couple of years how that all looks like in retrospect.
He never considered it a rebuild.
They’ve been living on the razors edge for 3-4 years.
Not developing young talent, spending big wads of free agency money on older role players that are barely passable NFL players and shredding the roster to just keep up in the NFC West arms race.
RW finally saying he’s had enough and forcing PCs hand, Geno Smith playing better than expected and a good 2022 draft doesn’t get to reshape the entire narrative. All it did was delay the conversation from rising to a level where the general public doesn’t call for changes.
My issue with the team isn’t even that they’re struggling. If they had all the young guys out and they were struggling with assignments, block shedding, etc. at least they’re attempting to look forward. To be this bad while playing all the vets just sucks