Jadeveon Clowney has broken his silence on his elongated free agency period and the news is — nothing is any closer to being resolved.
In a piece with Mark Berman of Fox 26 in Houston, he revealed what we more or less already knew — the stalemate is set to continue for some time.
Free agent DE Jadeveon Clowney (@clownejd) working at @PlexAthlete in Houston: “Whoever I sign with is gonna get the best version of me..I know what I got to do to get where I need to get.” (Hasn’t ruled out the @Seahawks): “I love Seattle..I love everybody on the coaching staff” pic.twitter.com/Al0dbbKQcG
— Mark Berman (@MarkBermanFox26) May 6, 2020
Here are 10 takeaways from this…
1. This isn’t going to be resolved any time soon. This is the latest attempt by Clowney to try and drum up some interest. He wouldn’t be doing this if he was close to making a decision.
2. He speaks glowingly of Seattle, the staff and the players — from Russell Wilson all the way to Branden Jackson. It’s pretty clear that both parties are very interested in getting something done. The problem is that while the Seahawks offer is probably the highest — it’s still not the kind of deal Clowney is interested in.
3. The medical/coronavirus side of things is still a red herring. Clowney can bring it up and say it’s a reason for his colder-than-expected market if he wants. The reality is, plenty of other players with injuries in their careers have been able to have medicals and pass or fail them. Most free agents agree big contracts before they even take visits, especially the ones earning the kind of money Clowney wants.
4. It’s very unlikely that, randomly, some team will offer Clowney the kind of contract he’s hoping for. It’s very likely he’s seen everyone’s best offer by this point. Any interested teams are all going to be acting the same way. They’re going to be looking for value. That’s the stage we’re at now. Free agency, the meaty end of it, is over. The draft is complete. He has virtually no real leverage.
5. Presumably there’s a lot of frustration in Seattle with this situation. The Seahawks need Clowney. They’ve probably offered him more than anyone else. They might’ve even tried to find some middle ground and raised their offer. But Clowney is dug in. Once you’ve waited this long, you might as well keep going. And the Seahawks, in such a clear way that it’d be arguing against the obvious to suggest otherwise, are willing to wait too. Otherwise they’d be out there signing a defensive tackle, Everson Griffen, Geno Smith and others. They aren’t for the pure and simple reason that they’re keeping their cap space available for Clowney. There’s no other explanation.
6. A lot of people are going to say, ‘just move on’. The thing is, there’s nobody available like Clowney. Nobody capable of practically beating the 49ers on his own like he did. Nobody who can impact Seattle’s 2020 season in the way he can. There’s a reason they aren’t just ‘moving on’. They’d probably like to. No team wants to be stuck in a stalemate like this. But why would you make your team worse than it can be through sheer impatience?
7. With the way he speaks about Seattle — and the way the Seahawks have talked about him — I get the sense the team is still pretty confident this will eventually get resolved. They just might have to wait until the week before training camp starts.
8. I don’t know how far apart the team and Clowney are in terms of negotiations. And I know we’ve heard from so many people this off-season questioning how he will play and compete once he receives a new deal. That said, the Seahawks have barely any long term commitments contractually. It’s Russell Wilson and that’s about it. Signing Clowney and him underwhelming is forgivable. Missing out, having waited this long, would be much more of an issue. Sometimes you’ve just got to go and land the player you want.
9. Equally, they’re basically bidding against themselves at this point. If you’re offering the most, you might not see any reason to go any further. A market is what it is. It’s just become an exhausting, repetitive and frustrating saga.
10. People will criticise Clowney for dragging this out and risking losing money. Those people will also fail, again, to appreciate this is a person who has earned over $50m in his football career. To him, getting respect in terms of salary is probably more important than anything. He’s seen other players who are not as good as he is receive big long-term extensions. He’s in a position, due to his wealth, where he can afford to risk losing a few million to get that respect. That’s his prerogative. He doesn’t have to do what anyone wants just because it makes life easier.
It’s still more likely than not he’ll end up back in Seattle, in my opinion. Their willingness to wait for him and protect their cap, the positivity from both sides and the fact no new teams have ponied up a better offer keeps the Seahawks in pole position.
Unfortunately, for those hoping for a swift resolution, you might have to wait another two months.
You can now support Seahawks Draft Blog via Patreon by clicking the tab below.
Another really strong piece, thanks for writing.
If the Hawks have made a fair offer, not much to be upset about as a fan. It’d be nice to have him locked up, but if the Hawks and all other teams don’t think he’s worth the $20 mil or whatever he wants then cest la vie. It’s a frustrating but understandable situation from all parties. He’s made a lot of money, and endured a lot of suffering. If he wants to hang on for a bit longer, that’s fair enough. If the Hawks don’t want to pay way overs for his services, then that’s fair too.
It’s becoming a pretty vanilla team though. Lot of nice young men out there on the park. It is funny how a team takes on the personality of its quarterback over time. We’ll be in it again, but Clowney or no it’s hard to see this team at the very pointy end of things.
I had a thought in relation to this “is Seattle better?” question. Without Clowney I think the answer is they’re certainly worse. He’s an unbelievably good player, head a shoulders above anyone he was playing with last season and that was reflected in how he was double teamed on every play and was still able to win games by himself. This year that position group has some better pieces (not what we all wanted so far as star power) but I’m wondering if the improved talent would be enough to unlock him, even if they dont move the needle by themselves. I think/hope it could be.
Obviously this all depends on getting him back. So as annoying as this waiting game is, I think its necessary and Seattle’s only realistic chance at being a better team this coming season.
I really hope we see Clowney back this year. I like the general mix of youth and experience from the other ends – might not be a top unit but I think its certainly good enough to get into the middle of the league. Especially if Clowney produces more in line with his previous years. Should be exciting. Without Clowney, by optimism for the season goes out the window.
Playing alongside JJ Watt wasn’t enough to “unlock” him, so I’m gonna say that Bruce Irvin and Benson Mayowa won’t be enough either.
I would expect that his number would be up from last year, but at this point it’s hard to see him being a 10-15+ sack guy. Which isn’t to say we shouldn’t pay him or that he’s not a game wrecker or anything like that.
He’ll never be a 10-15 sack guy.
But every single week the opponent has to have a game plan for him and has to give him extra attention.
Great take Rob. This off season will just continue until camp starts, or maybe longer. But, I agree with you that he’ll likely remain a Hawk.
It looks to me a last ditch effort by Clowney to tell teams that he is healthy and fit. We are likely closer to a resolution one way or the other in a week or two. No other team is more desperate for him than Seattle. Other teams are just looking to find some value.
I don’t think it’s last ditch. It’s just something he’s done. Just another episode in the saga.
We are no closer to a resolution. Having taken it this far there’s absolutely no reason for him to suddenly make a call next week or the week after. It’s much more likely he takes this through to the week before camp.
He is humbled by market in the past few weeks. He may be looking for a face saving exit from FA now so not to destroy his next FA market in a year or two.
I think he seems very comfortable.
Happy to roll at his own pace.
i get it….He’s probably trying to establish the narrative that he had his own schedule. If he wants to drag this further he better be signing a longer term deal. Offers may not change materially from now to whenever he is willing to accept though.
I wish people wouldn’t use the word ‘narrative’ to describe any position anyone takes ever.
Yes. Thank you. The word narrative has become the most overused and annoying word in the past 10 years. It’s exhausting.
Patience is a virtue but damn it’s difficult to be virtuous sometimes.
Good stuff Rob. Thanks.
I really miss the days before free agency. These”sagas” are not fan friendly.
They are tiresome.
Nothing is ever easy with Seattle.
Seattle has had to deal with a number of these protracted scenarios, rather more than is normal for this profession. And rather more than say Belichick. I wonder if the personal — lol, I also mean personnel — style of Pete and JS encourages professional athletes to try to chisel a few more millions out of the team?
Do they and their agents sense weakness? Or do we just draft/sign really stubborn alphas?
I think a lot of it may have to do with the culture in Seattle being one that encourages freedom of thought and guys being allowed to be themselves versus the Patriots where Belichick demands towing the party line at all times.
Good point Mike. It’s also reflected in the fact that Okung, Sherman & Bobby have all opted to act as their own agents too. RW was also trying to ‘change the game’ with his most recent contract via an escalation clause or percentage based salary.
I’m sure it happens with other teams, but it seems Seattle fosters this type of ‘approach’ more than others.
I wonder how much of that is just observation bias though? Plenty of teams have holdouts or guys that delay signing or whatever. Logan Ryan for the Titans right now for instance. I wonder if this isn’t all that uncommon and we just don’t notice because we’re not on titansdraftblog.com every day monitoring the roster.
I want the Hawks to sign Clowney very badly, even though his sack numbers were not up to par for a top tier pass rusher his TFL’s and other metrics are from a high level player.
It was refereshing for Wilson to set that deadline last year and have a free and clear summer. With Clowney I do go back to the Patriots model of patience and letting go of players when numbers don’t match. As seen with Chandler Jones and others. Difference here is they have not fully moved on, thus creating current tension. With a positive outcome with JD still in the mix, hope is in the air. If the opposite occurs we well be left feeling as if the air just left the ballon.
Regretfully we are not a championship team as currently constituted, we are a one to maybe two playoff win club and that is mainly due to Russell getting us over the hump as has been previously mentioned.
Will we have a better shot with Jadeveon no doubt (pretty much our only shot at this point, unless they get creative and do something else that jeopardizes our future in another manner), but I do respect the team’s stance. Is Wilson’s prime in jeopardy no doubt as well, but if we overpay it can be as well.
The Calais move by Baltimore (really sticks out as sore thumb in a negative way), not only because we loved the player, but because it was a cheap (trade capital wise) move to get an alpha dog that could have played next to JReed. We’ll see if the moves to shore up the Oline in free agency that freed us to draft these players proves fruitful. That was a big part of their plan.
Thanks Rob,
Love reading your articles just before bed or waking up ( I’m from Sydney, Australia). We are leaving ourselves vulnerable if this drags until August /September and Clowney does decide not to sign any contract this season , we may have missed out on other players to fill our depth ( griffin , snacks , smith, Mebane). Really hope we got some sort of conclusion to this to move on , or build the D- line around Clowney .
They are lucky that their other options (Griffen, the DT’s, Lynch, Geno etc) remain available and are likely to remain available. It’s keeping them in a position to be able to wait.
Setting negotiations aside for a sec., can we all just take a moment to marvel at one of the truly special athletes out there right now?
6052, 266, 34.5 arm, 83 wing, 4.53 40yd, 1.59 10yd, 37.5 vert, 10’04” broad, 4.43 SS, 7.27 3C
Just watching him work out and move around is incredible. My dad is 6072 and I can’t imagine someone about that big moving like Clowney and NBA guys do. Insane.
Definitely more impressive than me trying to do a Turkish get-up.
Just looking at that medicine ball makes me sore.
It’s hard to accept right now, but it’s the end product that matters. It doesn’t really matter how they ultimately get the players whether start of FA, in the summer, in season trade, etc. Wins matter. Whatever the process to get there doesn’t.
Fans have a different perspective- we want to win the process too.
Great takes — all 10 of them. In a normal season, I’d get Clowney’s strategy — the Hawks have such a weak position group on the D line (as you’ve illustrated, Rob, time and time again) that it seems that they’d be forced to match his demands as camp draws closer — or at least pay him more than their offer today. But I do wonder how the epidemic plays into this. In the off chance that it delays the season (even if there’s a 10% shot, and I’d guess it’s more than this), isn’t he shooting himself in the foot? Better to make $12 in a season or whatever the league’s offering him than to be bargaining against teams *and* a virus.
I think that’s the point though. He’s not bothered about the money. It’s all about respect. And respect to Clowney means one of two things:
1. Getting the salary he feels he deserves
2. Doing this on his timeframe and making the decision when he wants to, not taking an offer he doesn’t like on a teams’ schedule
Not much we can do at this point but wait. Clowney is gifted, but there are reasons he doesn’t have a contract yet. There are games he just takes over, and others where you don’t see any impact. He doesn’t have the relentless, consistent fire and drive you see from his former teammate Watt. But, very few do. He definitely is the best option remaining out there for us. I hope we can get him for 3 years, resolve that position for the foreseeable future at a high quality level, and move on to improve the rest of the team. Not much more can be done this year except coaching up the younger members.
There definitely is a down side to all these one year contracts. I think we are still in catch up mode. JS had a plan for sustaining the team’s excellence, but then Kam, Avril, Thomas,and Sherman all got hurt. Bennett and Sherm also got full of themselves. Man what a waste, and what could have been…
Yes. All those injuries at the same time … kind of ruined our dynasty hopes. Two 5th rounders there and an inexpensive free agent. Seemed easy at the time, but … was remarkable good luck.
Good playoff teams being reported as interested now (Ravens, Eagles). This reminds me of Suh situation where he held out for a while. Didn’t get a huge contract but still a respectable one.
If Clowney doesn’t sign we could get really screwed. Ho0efully because he loves the guys in Seattle he wouldn’t do this lol. At least not training camp seems like a final date at least… albeit like Rob said- this is not anytime soon.
Well, Clowney has mentioned the Ravens and Eagles. And like the Seahawks always do, like all good teams do, I’m sure they’ve touched base. Doesn’t mean they’re going to sign him though.
I think the whole narrative about Clowney liking Seattle is way over blown. I think this gives the Hawks little if any leverage and makes all most zero difference on where Clowney ends up. Clowney is going to do what is best for Clowney and will go where he can get the best deal and situation for himself.
Clearly the Hawks have been the most persistent team trying to sign him and have by all accounts made the biggest offer and he has not signed. If another team comes in and offers him a deal close to what he wants he will sign there it is as simple as that. If another team does not make a better offer then perhaps he ends up back in Seattle or chooses not to play at all on what he deems a disrespectful contract.
Of course he is going to say he likes Seattle what is he going to say? He would be stupid to burn that bridge and not try and use their offer as leverage against other teams. If he loves it so much why has he not signed? That answer is simple he likes Seattle but only if they offer him the deal he wants and that would be the same for 20+ other teams I am sure.
As Rob has said many times things are in a holding pattern and it really has the Hawks over a barrel as this team is barely a playoff contender without him.
I don’t think Clowney liking Seattle is a ‘narrative’ or overblown.
He clearly does like Seattle. He was practically gushing in that clip.
This isn’t about any relationship between the Seahawks and the player. There’s clearly a mutual appreciation and a mutual interest. It’s 100% about no team offering Clowney the salary he was expecting and him taking the position that either you offer him the money he wants or he’s going to do this on his own timetable, not yours.
It’s quite simple really. People in the media, online or on Twitter saying anything other than the above are wrong.
I think this further supports a notion that Seattle has told him they’re saving a spot for him and if he can get a better offer, they’ll match or up it. He’s going to take as long as he can to get a better offer.
I agree. My impression of it is that he still wants to play for the Hawks (however- only if the salary and compensation is indeed the best/maximum amount he can get). Releasing the video as well as the new/re-emerging rumors about Ravens/Eagles makes me think hes trying to negotiate with the Hawks to get a better offer. Hopefully it is a situation where the Hawks have the best offer and are willing to match (and no other teams decide to overbid).
I don’t think he’s negotiating with anyone. Probably just sat waiting.
Yeah, you gotta ask why release this video now? How does it help his negotiation position positively?
It brings attention back to him. If the Hawks would roll the dice on paying ansah last year, many others would for Clowney this year. It basically gets fans on all teams talking, and then adding pressure to their clubs to try signing him, seahawks included. Add a little more $ to the conversation. Its happening after the draft, which I think adds extra impact to clubs still feeling like they are left wanting on the dline. They also know their remaining budget and who they can cut to get more.
So you put this out, hope you get a few teams to up the ante, and leverage that boost to negotiations moving forward. No rush to sign immediately either, just a boosting $ tactic to get teams to show their hands. Never hurts to capitalize on desperation of teams that didn’t get players they were targeting in the draft.
There’s still training camp, which im thinking when teams realize their dline prospects arent up to snuff is when he will have more leverage again to try to really get his deal done.
I’m not expecting him to sign anything until teams start to make their training camp cuts. Its the biggest pain point before the season truly begins. Of course, he may wait into the season, but it would probably be for diminishing returns at that point, with the final $$ already spent.
Question for anyone. Say Clowney ends up signing with SEA and has a great season. Would you be comfortable signing him to a long term extension around $20M after the season or has this prolonged holdout changed your thoughts on him?
Personally, I’d be conflicted. If he plays well and really gels, I’d love to have him for a few years. Then again, he seems like the kind of guy that might not ever be really satisfied. Not sure if I’d feel comfortable going more than a couple years out and I’m sure he would want more than that.
I’m more leery of him now.
Anyone can work out hard. (Ahem, yeah, about that… sorry Mrs. God of Thunder). But has he genuinely been improving his TFL and sack the QB skills? Or is he riding those remarkable God given physical traits?
I think the man’s addicted to being special: number one draft pick, golden boy, the adulation, the big contracts, all the physical attributes that could land him in the HoF… and … 3 sacks last year?
Three sacks and among the league leaders in pressures and pass rush win percentage despite being a one man band who was double teamed constantly.
And playing through injury while hardly practicing.
This isn’t a holdout. He isn’t under contract.
Semantics.
Technically the definition is “an act of resisting something or refusing to accept what is offered”. I get what you mean though.
It isn’t semantics, imo. There’s a huge difference between not wanting to sign a contract and being under contract and refusing to honor it.
The answer to your question is different in those two cases. In this case, I wouldn’t worry about signing him to a deal. If he were holding out while under contract, I would.
Fair enough. How about “prolonged standoff”?
A ‘great season’ engenders forgiveness for a ‘multitudes of sins’. Under those circumstances? Sure-why not?
Appreciate the thoughts Rob. Like you, I’m getting tired of Clowney dragging his feet on this one.
With the news that Logan Ryan isn’t coming back to the Titans, does that change your stance on Clowney or the thought of the Seahawks signing Ryan?
I know they said they have a plan at nickel, but Pete has also said how excited he was about their young depth on the DLine. Signing Ryan would give them, what feels like, a corner version of Mychal Kendricks and would allow the Seahawks to really rotate through all the depth they’ve signed on the DLine to keep fresh legs on the field and see what all they have in these picks.
No — there’s two reasons why Logan Ryan is a complete non-starter (so much so I’m surprised anyone is even paying it lip service in the media).
1. He isn’t signing with the Titans because he wants/wanted $10m a year. Presumably that hasn’t shifted much now. He’s in the same situation as Clowney, minus the good relationship with his told team. So he won’t be in any rush to sign unless someone ponies up. And that brings me on to number two…
2. The Seahawks are very, very, very clearly saving their cap space for Jadeveon Clowney. If they sign Ryan, then that’s the end of Clowney. And however good Logan Ryan may or may not be (he wasn’t great in 2019) — there is no way he’s going to provide the kind of impact Clowney can.
I wish they’d done more to address the nickel position. But the answer is not going to be signing Logan Ryan.
Those are fair points, and you’re very likely right. But there is enough there where it’s at least worth a discussion.
Let’s say that Clowney doesn’t come back. You’re sitting with plenty of cap space to make a move and have a glaring hole at nickel. If you think Ugo Amadi is 1 year away, you could pay the $10m for Logan Ryan for a year rental, use the rest to sign Everson Griffen & a rotational DT, and be in a place where you’ve put yourself in a better place to contend for a Super Bowl this year.
Moreover, I think about the arguments you made before the draft about why the Seahawks wouldn’t take a linebacker. Despite what happened, I think you made a valid point – they’ve invested a lot of capital recently at linebacker.
Since 2018, here are their draft investments at DE/Edge:
-Rasheem Green (2018, 3rd)
-Shaqueem Griffin ( 2018, 5th, I know he was an LB, but his future seems to be a rotational rusher at this point)
-LJ Collier (2019, 1st)
-Darrell Taylor (2020, 2nd)
-Alton Robinson (2020, 5th)
Here are their investments at CB
-Tre Flowers (2018, 5th)
-Ugo Amadi (2019, 4th)
I know the Seahawks like to find their corners late and coach them up, but that’s a significant difference in their investments. Add on top of that they brought in Irvin and Mayowa (not world beaters, but rush depth), and that’s a lot of capital they’ve already spent on DE. For fairness, add in Dunbar and Neiko Thorpe. But Thorpe is more of a gunner than a CB you want out their for significant time.
No, none of the DEs above are Clowney. But eventually you want your investment to pay off.
If the Seahawks went into the season with a base nickel formation featuring Dunbar, Griffin, and Ryan, with the ability to bring in Flowers for Dime packages, you start to feel pretty good about that secondary. Add in that you could get a DE rotation with Griffen, Green, Irvin, Mayowa, Taylor, Robinson, Collier –
It feels like you’ve improved your team for the now while still getting reps for all the young guys you’ve brought in.
But here are some other things you have to consider…
— If Clowney moves on, they aren’t going to take that money and spend $10m of it on a nickel. It’ll go to Everson Griffen and all the other players they need to sign.
— They have never invested in the nickel position. They’ve consistently fitted players in there or traded for, drafted or signed low level players. It’s been a succession of Jeremy Lane, Justin Coleman, Jamar Taylor types. We know enough about this front office now to project what they are likely/unlikely to do. Even in a scenario (which I don’t expect) where Clowney goes somewhere else, I don’t see them turning around and spending $10m on Logan Ryan. That would go against everything we know about their tendencies.
— Is Logan Ryan even worth $10m? By all accounts he didn’t have a great 2019 season. Nobody has touched him. Clowney, at least, can legitimately point to his pass rush win percentage and pressures in 2019. Plus he’s two years younger. I get the sense people are just assuming Ryan is good because he’s a name.
Again, fair points.
-Even if you did pay $10m to Logan Ryan, you could still give $8m to Griffen and find a way to get a DT in (pending Irvin’s contract, but the FO could probably lessen a cap hit this year somewhere). If you do that and sign the draft class/free agents, do they need to/have roster space to sign much more?
-I know you can’t look just at stats to judge value. But he had over 100 tackles last year, 4.5 sacks, 4 ints and 4 FFs. That says that you have a player who can tackle (Kendricks had his fair share of misses) and who’s versatile from the Nickel position – but with a CB instead of trying to run a base 4-3 with an LB in today’s NFL. That might be something Ken Norton Jr. would appreciate for blitz packages.
-I can’t argue against the Nickel point. They haven’t shown a need to invest in Nickel. But hey – if they were willing to pay Luke Joeckel $8 million, anything can happen (yes I know we brought him in before be traded for Duane Brown and the Seahawks clearly spend on LT…but Luke Joeckel…)
They have $21m in cap space, with millions needing to be set aside for the draft class, injured reserve and the practise squad. There’s no way they can afford to pay Logan Ryan $10m and Everson Griffen $8m.
Back in April, John Clayton had the Seahawks latest offer to Clowney at $15.5m to $16m. If that’s wrong and it is closer to $13m or 14m, then I agree – that’s too big of a jump.
But if we’re talking $2-2.5m difference between Clowney & Griffen/Ryan (not factoring in what they’d pay if they were adding a different Nickel in this case), then I’d think the FO has a plan that could free up that extra cap space with (converting part of Russ & Bobby’s contract to a signing bonus?)
I think I’d be more worried about the Logan Ryan news meaning that the Titans now have more money to put together a legit offer for Clowney, no? Not sure what their cap situation is. Which is fine if it means the saga gets done earlier (assuming Clowney is willing to take the higher offer between the 2 teams and not try to elicit more teams/offers).
Looks like a report just dropped from Brady Henderson that the Hawk’s offer is going to go down due to their cap constraints.
I suppose that’s why Rob’s the expert and I’m here commenting 🙂
I kinda feel like a FA nickel signing is just a luxury. DT, RB, DE, even OT, seem like more important spots to sign. The defense will allow passes. It always has, even during LOB. You never get blanket coverage. There’s always a weak link. Nickel being the journeyman position you let the young guys play at to get experience.
I think whatever youd gain from a vet DB is minimal compared to an improved defensive line in pass coverage, or having a vet RB to make sure we dont start the year with Homer as our RB1.
I was about to post the same thing. You’re spot on all 3 points. Ryan was OK last year. Not worthy of $10M and the Hawks haven’t ever paid that high for their nickel CB. Hawks are all in on Clowney and are waiting this out and being disciplined. Aside from the money they also realize they’ll only get 13-14 games a year from him so they can’t go above their number just to get this done. I read the post below about signing him and Ryan. Even if we had the cap room (which we don’t) I would almost go after Clowney and Griffen instead of signing Ryan and one of the other two. It’s a pipe dream, but a D with Clowney and Griffen will be in the top 5-10 ranking. With our offense and Russell, that would make us a serious SB contender. Would you give up K.J. to sign the two of them?
Thanks Rob
For putting in the work when you don’t have to .
Reading draft grades and watching draft videos on the Seattle 2020 draft some “experts” claim that Alton Robinson is the best player we drafted . Brett Kollmann even suggested he has pro bowl potential and compared him to Danielle Hunter and like him much more then Darrell Taylor l . I didn’t watch any Syracuse games but I have a sense of optimism that’s we may have gotten a steal in the 5th. Would you consider a deeper dive into him and see why some people are really high on him .
Kindest Regards
I will do but I have to say I didn’t see Danielle Hunter. I saw a guy who flattered to deceive, wasn’t in the best shape and didn’t have enough easy wins. I want to see him commit to this now, get into great shape and go for it.
What’s your response to articles claiming he’s ‘twitched up.’
I thought he looked sluggish.
He had a good short shuttle which important.
The rest? Not much to write home about.
He needs to get in top shape.
From reading and researching about him, it seems that he had a great 2018 season, with 10 sacks, and was expected to build off that. Unfortunately, the whole Cuse team regressed. I am curious to know your thoughts on him looking at his 2018 tape, when people were claiming he could be a day 1 or 2 pick, and what caused him to regress this last season.
I’ve not watched the 2018 tape but I will try and have a look. But I don’t recall ever seeing any R1-2 projections.
“4. It’s very unlikely that, randomly, some team will offer Clowney the kind of contract he’s hoping for. It’s very likely he’s seen everyone’s best offer by this point. Any interested teams are all going to be acting the same way. They’re going to be looking for value. That’s the stage we’re at now. Free agency, the meaty end of it, is over. The draft is complete. He has virtually no real leverage.”
this is the only one of your points that worries me. it’s just that we have seen this dynamic play out before – for us and for other teams – where a player ultimately feels ‘disrespected’ and takes a short term deal to sort of prove his point. And that short term deal could be on any contending team where some star player reaches out to him offline, and tells him what a great situation it is, and how he’ll love it, and get his contract next year, etc.
I do agree w you that all signs feel pretty good — it’s rare for a contract standoff to last this long, and still have both sides speaking nicely about the other – the nervous fan in me worries about the wild card possibility.
Also – echo another poster above – it’s so true, just watching the guy work out – what a crazy athletic specimen he is. top-5 picks in the NFL don’t always pan out as great players, but they are usually a cut above in pure athleticism – it would be nice to keep this one around.
Yeah that’s the scary part. Someone brought up the Earl situation on the last thread. KC thought they had him and Baltimore came through late. I do think that he likes it here and has enough of a connection with players and staff that he would give them a chance to match though. Is part of the reason the are waiting is because they will need all 21 mil in cap? Maybe… Can still cut a few guys to sign Geno and a vet minimum DT
Rob,
Thank you for managing to keep your articles about football. I was over at Fieldgulls and they have gone from football articles to now pumping out fear porn about the world and sports ending as we know it. It is refreshing to come here to this oasis of sports. I’m not minimizing what’s going on right now, but how/what/frequently they are forcing this news on us is making it worse. Thank you for giving all of us sports info to think about to help keeps our minds at ease in this 24/7 current news cycle.
My pleasure.
And we will keep it about football here. I wouldn’t bother with FG personally.
Waiting for Jim Moore to join FG staff. Perfect fit, total nightmare.
“It’s just become an exhausting, frustrating and repetitive saga” pretty much says it all about pretty much everything right now. Ugh.
How many of these excellent and impressive “almost beat the 49ers on his own” kind of games are we going to get out of Clowney?
Don’t say “two” just because we play the 49ers twice, haha!
I mean, can we count on 8/16 superb games or 4/16 or?
Sorry, I’m inclined now to lower the offer to 14 million or so. Or move on. I certainly don’t want him signed to a deal longer than 3 years. The man’s deluded about his worth.
To me, that is just as prideful as you are claiming Clowney is. Worth can be subjective. It wasn’t that long ago that we were clamoring to sign him for 21 apy, and thinking 20 would be a steal. We all thought he was worth the amount that he may be asking for. Worth is subjective, so calling him delusional is disingenuous. I think regardless he ends up in Seattle. Its inevitable. Clowney knows it and the Hawks know it. If a team comes along offering 18 apy, Hawks will match it. That is probably what they have agreed on. As Rob said, no team is going to come in out of the blue and offer 20+. And it doesn’t hurt him to wait.
The notion that “you wont agree to SIGN TO my terms, ON my terms, so im going to lower the offer’ is not “negotiation tactic” but is just childish.
You don’t determine a players worth based on how many Super human games he has.
The fact is he’s capable of those games and even when he’s not doing it he warrants major attention down after down.
People don’t seem to realise just how good his pass rush win percentage and number of pressures was last season despite being double teamed all the time with zero help from anyone else.
There’s a reason they’re waiting for him.
Anybody calculated the value of a “Win” in football recently? I’m inclined to think it’s worth quite a lot of money… even 1-2 games of total domination is incredibly valuable, not to mention incremental contributions in key moments for the other 14 games.
Very good take Rob, thank you. I was actually very encouraged by this from Clowney. As you have shown, it clearly shows the mutual interest form Clowney and Seattle, and shows that should he resign, there will be no ill will. Makes me believe that should Clowney receive a better offer, he will give the Hawks the details and allow for them to match it. I think other teams know this, and may also be why no other interest.
Speaking of backup QB, what are the thoughts on DeShon Kizer?
I’ve never been a fan of Kizer, even at Notre Dame.
Your clear illustration of the Clowney saga so far sounds 100% accurate.
With every passing day the Seahawks paint themselves into a corner where it’s Clowney or bust, and Clowney paints himself into a similar corner since no one else is rushing to over bid the Seahawks.
There is no indication it will reach some positive resolution in the very near future but with team activities starting (on zoom at least), the Seahawks will want whoever mans that vital position to be in the fold and not miss out on preseason activities.
At a certain point in time, sometime soon, the Seahawks will have to quietly put a clear deadline on the table beyond which the option of playing for the Seahawks is gone. Mini camps are scheduled for next week (online) and training camps will start in 2 months so they need it done in weeks rather than months.
They just can’t start training camp with this position unmanned.
They should also prepare a last face saving offer to put on the table at the last minute. Something in the form of a heavily back-loaded contract in the range of 50M/3 years or even 80M/4 years paying around 30M for the first 2 years and no guarantied money afterwards.
Clowney may be sitting comfortably at home right now with tens of millions already in his bank account but sooner or later he will need to decide if he is willing to risk further disrespect by letting his best offer expire and risk adding insult to injury when none is coming close to it.
I wouldn’t expect any deadline. Don’t forget, they went into camp last season with Mingo, Marsh and Martin as their only three healthy and signed edge rushers. Ansah was a ways off still. And they traded for Clowney at the last minute.
This will probably go on for two more months. Right up until camp.
I suspect they are holding on to as much cap space as they can right now in order to beat any late offers. For this reason they are pretty confident they will land him. But once training camp arrives they will need to sign Gino and a DT, so while the 18m match option might disappear, they’ll hold 15-16 until he’s signed to another team.
Ohh my god – our season is already DOOMED!!!!
Not only do we have a poor defense, I just found out that our offense is not even in the top 10 in the NFL!!!
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001112799/article/nfls-top-10-offenses-chiefs-ravens-pulling-away-from-pack
Might as well trade RW and start all over again right?
But the almighty Dallas Cowboys are the fourth ranked offense in the NFL! once again the national sports media masturbation over the Dallas Cowboys is in full swing. I know a lot of people here like Trey Wingo and he is very good at his job but his slobbering over the Dallas Cowboys has grown extremely tiresome. If you ever listened to his morning radio show with Mike Golic you would know what I mean.
Plus I don’t get all the talk about the Cowboys offense. It wasn’t great last year, not even playoff caliber, and they lost a very good center on their Oline. I think their offense is going to regress because of Oline play.
I can’t really argue with the linked article Eran. The article basically has them in the top 13.
In 2019 Seattle was 9th in ppg, .1 point ahead of 10th. Couple that with the offense was near the back of the pack for plays per drive meaning they couldn’t stay on the field.
Then the storyline of did the offense make itself better over the offseason which as of now is debatable.
So a 9-13 ranking seems appropriate which is just better than middling.
4/5 new starters on OL; Carson coming off broken pelvis; injury history of Olson/Dissly/Lockett, even Metcalf. Even with Wilson, rank seems pretty accurate, if not generous.
Spot on Mishima. Injuries to Penny also.
This whole offseason baffles me but at the end of the day it’s Carrolls/Schneiders team and they can operate as they see fit.
I appreciated Robs state of the union on the hawks 2 days ago because it’s hard to deny anything he said.
You couple a 9-13 offense with a 15-25 defense and it’s hard to see a SB winner.
Not even thinking Super Bowl. Cool with a fun .500. Anything else is gravy.
I can argue with it but what’s the point?
It’s just kind of miraculous actually.
It seems to make sense that we did not or do not have a top 10 offense.
I’m sure you have all seen the list Rob publishes whenever he needs to explain just how bad our defense was.
And it’s all true.
The only thing that does not make sense is why we ended up drafting Brooks instead of Chase?
Glad to hear Clowney gush about Seattle. It shows that he’s not looking to get out. He’s simply looking for the contract he believes he deserves. It makes me feel more confident that in the end Seattle will still have the best offer on the table. Unfortunately, like Rob says, it’s probably going to take a couple of months.
I get the feeling this will go right up to the end of camp. It seems like every year there is a big name who is doing this same thing and it’s just a matter of them wanting to avoid camp. My only question is can there be some sort of “off the record” agreement between Clowney and the front office? It would explain why both sides seem so content and especially why Seattle hasn’t made another move. I think if the other options were to sign elsewhere, Seattle’s reaction would be very telling.
This isn’t about avoiding camp.
It’s all about respect.
I agree he will most likely end up in Seattle. He can wait but really we can wait just as long. It’s not super fun doing it but like you said they probably agree to a deal sometime in July.
We may be all under the impression that Jadeveon will eventually have to sign somewhere, with that timing possibly as late as training camp, but what if he decides differently? Rob, you have commented that JD has made 50 M$ in his career, could he decide to just sit out the season entirely? What if he held 1 last press conference at the end of training camp and says that he has enough money and is willing to take the year off to restart the process next year? In the mean time he could say that he intends to get his body 100% and wait for the right offer. Could that happen? Is there a reasonable possibility that he will not sign with any team for this year and just sits it out in hopes of a better offer next season?
I don’t think he will sit out the season because that wouldn’t do anything for his hopes of getting a bigger contract next year.
Who pulled off the biggest heist of the offseason in the NFC West so far?
A) Niners: 2020 5th + 2021 3rd for Trent Williams
B) Rams: Brandin Cooks + 2022 4th (and eating $20m cap hit) for 2020 2nd (Van Jefferson)
C) Cardinals: David Johnson + 2020 2nd (Ross Blacklock) for DeAndre Hopkins + 2020 4th (Rashard Lawrence)
D) Seahawks: 2020 5th (Khaleke Hudson) for Quentin Dunbar
Personally I’m going with A. Need + value gain line up amazingly well.
The deals for Williams and Hopkins are absolute steals. I can’t believe the Rams got a R2 for Cooks but not sure they used it wisely. I know PFF like Dunbar a lot but for me the jury’s out on that move. He’s missed 14 games in the last two seasons.
It’s like somebody out there decided the NFCW wasn’t tough enough. Let’s just give the Niners and Cards an adrenaline boost.
C.
(C.) Being able to dump Johnson’s contract in the trade pushes it just ahead of trade (A.) for me.
C is pretty damn good, especially considering the difference in the picks with hindsight.
I’ll go with the 9ers. The fact that I got the alert on my phone about Joe Staley retiring and didn’t even have time to compose a celebratory text to my 9er friends before they had traded for a 7-time pro-bowler was just sick.
I have to vote for C
ditto
A) all the way, considering the moves it allowed them to make in the 1st round of the draft (being able to replace Buckner with Kinlaw instead of drafting Wirfs) and how hard it is to find a serviceable LT in this league, let alone a 7-time pro bowler and 7 straight years voted to the NFL Top 100 list.
The other 2 NFCW teams it feels like they just got off super lucky because, well, Bill O’Brien…
To me it’s C, and not even close. They get to dump Johnson’s salary – and pick up a WR right in the prime of his career – that you could make a case is the best receiver in football.
Cannot believe that deal.
Trent Williams is good, but he’s older, has more of an injury history, and hasn’t played in a long while. Hopkins is the steal of the off-season.
Rob, thanks so much (as always) for posting yet another piece so chock full of realistic takes on the subject at hand, and devoid of the negativity that is so easy to find these days! If some of these compell us to confront ‘uncomfortable truths’, so be it. Just our cross to bear as 12’s in the current era. Love it.
I realize that I am focusing on a small fraction of the blog post here. “He has virtually no real leverage.” Just curious of the leverage Clowney holds at this moment.
His leverage is that he’s an unrestricted FA who (by gentlemen’s agreement) couldn’t be tagged. I think he saw that this was likely his only shot at negotiating a deal without the threat of being tagged, he decided to shoot for the stars.
Other than that, his only real leverage now is how desperately the Seahawks need him and the fact that he has relatively little to lose by waiting it out to the last minute to see if he gets a better offer.
Rob, What are the chances that the hang up is waiving the franchise tag rights on a short term deal and not the dollars and cents? He can’t honestly believe that he is going to get a long term deal at the price he wants from any other team at this point, can he?
The hang up is purely teams not paying him the amount he wants.
I have formed a rather unpopular opinion that this organization is cheap when it comes to certain positions and players. They will pay the franchise QB, and I’m sure they struggled with paying the perennial All-Pro LB in Bobby. They absolutely see OL as a position where they can skimp. They really are averse to paying for quality OL. No long-term commitments unless they are forced to do so like with trading for Duane. They shopped in the bargain bin for pass rush help this off-season along with the O-line. Its a very interesting attitude to have and the only answer is that they think Russell can overcome… And yet their whole coaching philosophy flies in the face of that when they attempt to establish the running game instead of just opening up the game and then running to catch them napping. In an NFL world where elite DE talent gets paid, (albeit mostly for sacks), they think that they can game the system and pay less than what is considered the norm. That is why they didn’t think about Quinn, Fowler, etc. They have always gone cheaper at DT, and DE. They don’t want to play the game in Free Agency, and I can see why. Having said all that… PAY THE MAN AND LET US MOVE FORWARD.
They paid big money to Duane Brown and Justin Britt.
They are not averse to paying big money for offensive linemen. When there are players worth paying, they pay them.
They had to pay brown because he is a left tackle and there was literally nobody else they trusted. Britt has a backloads deal that they always knew they cut end and I don’t think the injury was the sole reason they cut him. They were never going to pay him the meat if that deal toward the end. They did pay him plenty up front, but again, they tend to go with short-term answers instead of building a good O-line that sticks together. They used Unger as a throw-in for Jimmy. How does one justify trading a first round pick AND an All-Pro center? One of the other, but it wasn’t as if they were acquiring a dominant edge rusher. So again, what are we witnessing? Okung let go, Unger traded, didn’t want to keep Fant, let Ifedi walk for fear of his perceived market, and they signed a bunch of JAGS to hopefully, somehow produce a miracle and a line. To me, it just seems sort of half in, half out. Still not clear what the vision is.
Just accept you were wrong please.
I think they just like to spread the money around. Not sure how much I agree with it all the time. For the DLine I am more of a fan as I like to have a bunch of quality rushers versus just one great one and a bunch of jags.I agree though that they probably weren’t that exited to pay Wagz $18m.
If we had the best kicker we’d pay him top dollar too
Interesting if true…
https://twitter.com/nflschedule2020/status/1257868311196504064
Well the bad news is you would probably be favored to start the season 0-1. The positive is you wouldnt have to play in Buffalo in the winter.
Looking at the Mariners schedule (not sure how much that applies anymore) they have home games both Sundays to start the NFL season.
If it’s true… very tough.
I remember the last opening day in Buffalo. Basically the beginning of the end for the Holmgren era.
Definitely better than playing there in Nov. or Dec. if true.
Maybe we can play the home opener in Toronto against Buffalo…lol. The last time we played Buffalo there we put up a fity burger.
Disregard. Fake account with fake leaks.
Seemed a little early, usually you dont see these until the day of the schedule release which is tomorrow.
This is actually very good news.
The Bills are a force to recon with and playing then at Buffalo was a likely L in preseason projection especially if that game was played in November or December.
Game one of the season does not always go according the script. So, while the seahawks has never been fast starters, I think they stand a better chance of winning this game in week 1 than in the 2nd half of the season.
P.S. – We’ll probably have Dissly for most of the game so that’s another plus….
Rob, great piece as usual, my respect. Am I correct to assume that all we are talking about is a 1 year deal and then he’ll try again next year and if he has a great and healthy year there surely will be someone other than the Hawks who will pay more in a long term deal. So best case scenario is we have him for 1 year?
I think the Seahawks probably want multiple years, maybe even two, but are perhaps open to a one year arrangement if needs be.
I would agree completely they would want two years. Dont want this drama again next year.
Enjoying the off season Articles.
Super Busy, but still find time to read them every couple days.
Re. Clowney– I mean, I don’t blame the guy. He’s got tens of millions in the bank.. why take a job just to take a job if you don’t have to.??
Take the right job, in the right situation, for the right money or take a short term job at the last minute for less than you’d like, or maybe don’t take a job at all until the right one comes along.
Makes sense to me. I’ve done the same thing in life….granted with significantly less money on the line and no fans to be pissed at me for it.
I’d be willing to bet that there arent very many fans who enjoy going to work for less than they feel they are worth; difference is that a lot of us HAVE to. He doesn’t.
Offer him a 2 year contract. First year at a “middling” dollar value, second year at a good
performance value with the second year being a mutual option year. If he has a so-so year
the SH management can pass on the option. If he has a breakout year he can pass on the
option and become a free agent.In between the parties can agree to exercise the option. Just
a thought.
Here is a tweet from Brady Henderson recently FWIW about the Clowney situation.
https://twitter.com/BradyHenderson/status/1258101232121507840
Means absolutely nothing.
We know the situation by now. We’ve talked about it enough. The media can run around and let the two parties play the game for them if they want.
Man these tactical leaks and counter leaks used to be fun. Now they’re just downright annoying.
I liked Gee Scott’s response to his tweet.
Yep.
Look — I’ve contacted English football teams loads of times about stuff similar to this. More often than not you get a no comment. But when they do ‘give you something’ it’s nearly always something they want out there, because it suits them.
The problem is when you assert something is ‘unlikely’ when you speak to a ‘team source’ in this instance — there’s a reason why they are saying these things… when the reality, as pointed out partly in this thread, shows the complete opposite. They aren’t not addressing DT, backup QB, RB, Everson Griffen etc because they’re finishing off Tiger King on Netflix first. It’s pretty clear they are keeping their powder dry for Clowney.
Which is why Gee’s response is a fair response. And why the ‘OMG he’s gone isn’t he!’ responses… are not.
Exactly right.
Gee, where did his “understanding” come from, I wonder?
Soapbox alert… I understand J.C.’s need to fell respected and yet don’t understand how he, and many other people, place a $$$ amount at the top of list. He is being offered, by all reports, the top amount for his services. And that’s literally a staggering amount of money to any of us reading or commenting about it on this website.
With that amount being on the table and the fact that the SH organization appreciates and even cherishes what he delivers on field and in the locker room and the fan base loves his commitment to the game and the team he plays for, doesn’t that show a respect far beyond the amount of money he can make.
This is not to criticize him but more of a critique of the state of affairs we live in where $$$ amount trumps true love and respect for our humanity.
Would you take a job if they weren’t willing to pay you what you think you’re worth; weren’t willing to pay you the going rate for your position??
I can only think of a couple good reasons to take a job like that; and that’s because you NEED to, because of your financial situation, OR your sacrifice enables success of the team/company as a whole, and allows for higher achievement than otherwise possible. (IE, winning trumps money, or greater good trumps money), and reason number 2 comes with that caveat that reason no. 1 is null and void.
Sure; if you are balancing multiple offers, and one company has a better reputation; and shows your more love and respect, you may put them at the top of the list; maybe even consider a smaller salary than others; But love and respect alone is not necessarily a reason to take a job that isn’t going to pay you what you think you are worth.
“that’s literally a staggering amount of money to any of us reading or commenting about it on this website”
“This is not to criticize him but more of a critique of the state of affairs we live in where $$$ amount trumps true love and respect for our humanity”
Pro sports contracts are relative to pro sports revenue. Your two above points are of no relevance.
Au contraire, Sir… And every field of endeavor reflects every other field of endeavor. We don’t live in closed loops. You’re talking about absolute ego in a closed system, I’m talking about relative ego in an open system. And thus your point is worthy but different than mine. To say someone’s reasonable point to view is irrelevant must have struck a nerve.
We live in a society.
Money is respect in the NFL, it’s all the teams care about. You see how much respect they have for their players when it starts getting a bit too much, regardless of how much the player loves the team and the fan base. Money is more important than players to teams, so you can’t exactly complain when that gets flipped back on them.
Rob thank you for everything you do on this site Got a question for you. Two bigger free agents Mr Clowney and Logan Ryan. May have to settle for one year contracts. Who knows what. Cap may be like next year. Part of cap involving revenue i think . If the cap goes down next year. Philadelphia is huge trouble right. There is a lot of unknown
This is unrelated to the topic of the post, but I found a nice little video breakdown of Darrell Taylor from a Ravens fan a couple of months ago. Worth checking out if you haven’t seen it. Taylor has some skills.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw6JaHNhXXo
Incredibly excited about DT and this reaffirms it. Thx Mitch
Can’t believe how the media have reacted to the Brady Henderson tweet.
Source: “Hey Brady, if Clowney wants to come back he’s going to have to take way less, brother.”
Brady: “Schneider, is that you?”
Source: …
Seattle media man
A thread with some good draft calls from other teams. Amik Robertson first one on there:
https://twitter.com/JoshNorris/status/1258077274999599106
It was a steal. He’s going be an impact player for the Raiders.
Beautiful day in the PNW!! Hope everyone’s feeling optimistic and relaxed
You’ve been quite the positive cat, lately. Noted and appreciated.
+🐱
https://1057thefan.radio.com/blogs/inside-access-with-jason-la-canfora-ken-weinman/john-schneider-on-why-seahawks-took-jordyn
Talks about Clowney starting about the 3:00 mark. No major bombshell. Points out (carefully choosing his words) that there seems to be no urgency since this point of the offseason is virtual.
Some of these are just bad. Blake Martinez? 😂
Dante Fowler, jr over Deion Jones or Grady Jarrett? F**k no.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JBrownSZN/status/1257882769490919426/photo/1
Blake Martinez might be the most overrated player in the NFL.
SMH.
No way is Mathieu better than Chris Jones. I’d even argue Frank Clark is better at this point in their careers.
Joe Schobert over Josh Allen in Jax?
Dunlap over Geno Atkins? Ehhh. Having said that, Cincy has a good looking team. Their roster certainly doesn’t look #1 overall bad. That O-line will make or break ’em. It was the only big weakness I saw looking over their depth chart.
I again want to thank you for your posts, Rob. I have learned to take all other Seattle sports media personalities with a grain of salt thanks to you. You consistently churn out quality content and very frequently hit the nail on the head when it comes to situations such as this one, especially compared to these other people who are now writing off Clowney returning.
There are good people in Seattle sports media. Absolutely there are. I’m a bit surprised at some of the Clowney stuff though.
Ultimately none of us know the complete facts and we’re all guessing to an extent — but I think this piece or at least the conclusions it presents are likely to be close to what is happening and what will happen. And I expect he will be back in Seattle. We’ll just have to wait a couple of months first.
Rob, If you were a GM and had say the 20th pick and the two teams ahead of you were likely to take your player, would you move up and accept the cost (draft pick(s)) in exchange for the player you really wanted? The only reason I ask is I see similarities between this type of situation and the current Clowney situation. Why would they want to wait on the player they want (Clowney) and not just the accept the cost (a few more million) and get it done rather than hoping someone doesn’t come in and steal your player? I’d offer him $3/$57 and just structure the contract so it costs about $14 million in 2020 and backload the rest. I understand it would put us in cap-hell, but aren’t we’re still going to be in cap-hell for 2021 even if we sign him for 2 years? Just my $.02 worth.
Honestly I would never really be a fan of moving up in round one. I think the price is so much higher than round two that I totally understand why the Seahawks never do it. So I would only move up if it was for a player at a vital position (QB, DE, CB, OT) that I viewed as a top-10 type talent.
I think with Clowney they are running the risk of trying to be too clever by half. For me I would’ve had this done by now. And if their policy works I’m sure they will get a lot of praise by fans and media. But if it doesn’t they run the risk of weakening what was already a really bad pass rush.
I agree with you on trading up in the first-round. My analogy about trading up was really to try to make the point that if you want a player bad enough, (Clowney) then why wait and take the risk of someone else stepping up? Maybe they have the opportunity to match, but I wouldn’t count on that. I’d just hate to lose him because they’re worried he’ll cost $23 million in 2021 instead of $20 million. It’s still going to be cap-hell in 2021 if they sign him for multiple years and I’m not sure we can even afford a one-year deal with our current situation.
Looks like the first 4 weeks of the season could be against the AFC. Might go road-road-home-home
Rob, SO glad you’re working this blog, but, to be perfectly honest, you deserve to have Brady Henderson’s job…couple hours after you wrote this, he put something up that still had cleveland in the competition….Thank you for being good at what you do 😉
Thank you for reading
Thank you for writing….we, as seahawks fans, have been lucky…first Clayton, then Sando, then you….we got spoiled 😉
Yep — Bob Condotta is spot on here. Negotiating via the media. Just like Russell a year ago.
Bob Condotta
@bcondotta
3m
Story updated again trying to make sense of what almost felt like coordinated efforts by each side to get their side of the story out over the last 24 hours: https://seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/jadeveon-clowney-tells-houston-tv-station-hes-not-ruling-out-a-return-to-seattle-but-is-willing-to-be-patient/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=article_inset_1.1
That makes me think that Clowney, once he saw that he wasn’t getting what he hoped ($20m), is asking for a 1 year deal so he can hit FA right away again next year and cash in in the new CBA and a back-to-normal FA process. He’s probably even be asking for another “no tag” clause.
Seattle probably said “no thanks” to that clause and either gave a super low, “disrespectful” number for a 1 year deal ($13.5m, with option to tag in 2021 for around $18m) or a little better for a 2-year deal ($16m). Obviously, 1 year gives them zero flexibility in both cap space and cash flow, which I was kind of surprised to hear JS bring up specifically:
Agree.
If Clowney wants a 1-year deal, there are only a few teams that can pay him what he probably wants.
Many can structure his deal over 2 years.
Even though he has Seattle’s best offer in his back pocket, kind of worried that he’s going to sign a 1-year deal with a scrub team like Washington, Cleveland or Miami.
Ok Brady, so what you’re saying is the Seahawks pulled their best offer and the new offer is significantly less? Is this your source or directly from your ESPN masters?
He’s a useless twit…
and ESPN is a near useless conglomerate
Prof Clayton, on the radio right now, just added a factor I had not heard before, re Jadeveon. The professor said that, if all or part of this coming season is played without fans, then the revenue of the league will be significantly down, and therefore a major cut in the salary cap for 2021 would be forthcoming. This is a big reason that teams are being unusually cautious in committing to a salary that would have a huge hit on the cap in 2021. This is a reason why restructuring Russell Wilson’s contract would be madness, because you could be sliding the cap hit into 2021, when the cap could be down as much as 20%. A team caught in that cap hell in 2021 would have to cut a number of important players. The professor said this is one of the reasons why the Seahawks have lowered their offer to Jadeveon from around $16M to closer to $14M. A multi-year deal which traditionally piles on the cap in year two is something a savvy team would not do under the circumstances.
Jadeveon is looking at a situation where there are only two teams still interested, the Titans and the Seahawks, and no other teams are likely even if Jadeveon can take a team physical. The professor insists those are the only two teams involved or likely to be involved. If either team pulls out of the competition, then the offer to Jadeveon will drop, because that team is not going to bid against itself. Clowney best sign now, every day delay is costing him, not helping him. But there are no signs he is close to coming to his senses.
Brady Henderson, though here reviled, makes what seems to me a good point… the Seahawks do not have the cap space, at this moment, to sign Jaeveon at even $15M for a single year. Teams need to hold a significantly larger cap amount for contingencies this coming season, due to the unusual circumstances. To sign Jadeveon now would require another cut such at KJ. Are John and Pete willing to go there? Many commentators are saying that certain teams have not left enough cap to get through this season, and surprise cuts are expected among solid players this summer, so a team well-positioned could go bargain-hunting.
I would like to see Jadeveon back on a one year deal, but if these guys are correct, that seems unlikely. I hope they are wrong…
Brady Henderson is not ‘reviled’ here or anywhere else.
The point is — his report is via a team source. The team source has provided the message they ‘want’ to portray. And that has been turned into a statement in the tweet that a deal is ‘unlikely’. Thus we’ve had another day of ‘he’s not coming back’ hysteria online when that contradicts the very obvious points made in this piece — that if they’d truly moved on we’d be seeing Everson Griffen jersey’s being sold in the online shop and Geno Smith would be back too (among other moves).
As for the point about the cap — it’s not an issue unless the plan is to only sign Clowney for one year. And I don’t believe that’s the plan.
I agree with rob that Brady isn’t reviled, but this is disappointing that he’s either naive or ok with being used.
Are the Seahawks “negotiating” with Jadeveon via the media? Yes. Do the Seahawks have the cap to sign Jadeveon to a 1 yr, $14M deal? No. KJ appears to be the only viable cut to get there. Given his shoulder surgery and Jordyn Brooks, they may be willing? Would the Seahawks have the cap to sign Jadeveon to a multi-year deal? Normally, yes; but Clayton says No, given the risk of a major cut in the 2021 cap if league income is down due to no fans in the stands. Conclusion, Jadeveon’s market value is now below $12M, perhaps as low as $10M. Unless he signs for that, the indications are he will not be a Seahawk. I hope the indications are wrong. I would love to have him on a one year deal.
yes they do.
They have $9m in cap room between Hollister, Hunt, Moore and Jackson. They could negotiate those contracts down and save $4-5m, or just cut them and save all $9m.
They also have room to convert some RW money to bonus and create some room as well. He did it for Brown, chances are he’ll do it for Clowney.
If the signed Clowney the it could be good night Irene for BJack.
Yeah, who needs a backup QB?
They have about $3M, now, and could create $10-$20M with cuts/trades.
Are they willing make those cuts? How much cap space do they need to sign Clowney AND fill out the roster?
Argue for signing Clowney, but let’s not pretend it won’t be difficult, now.
Geno Smith played for $805k last year. OTC already has a spot in the top 51 already accounted for at $700k. The extra $100k isn’t going to be the backbreaker.
Who said $100K would be? Kind of a straw man.
IMO, they don’t have enough cap space to fill out the roster (DT, QB, RB, CB), maintain some in-season flexibility (per Schneider) and sign Clowney to a 1-year deal. A 2-year contract might work if they’re willing to make some difficult cuts.
If we’re just talking making a few cuts, then adding Clowney + some vet min filler, of course it can be done.
KJ Wright is not the only viable cut.
Dang Kareem even with the suspension. Chris missing a year too.
Carson is a tough one to figure out. One day I’m his biggest cheerleader, thinking he might be even better than Lynch….next day he fumbles twice in a game and then get hurt.
If he could stay healthy, be the bellcow and not fumble, I think he should mention top3 RB in the league
I think Seattle took a step back this year with everything that’s happened. I do however think it can be a blessing in disguise. This is the year to play everybody and get the experience they need. The first thing is will the season start and will there be fans. If the games have no fans then a part of the gross gains goes down. What I hear if this happens next Cap level per team could down millions of dollar to the point all teams would have to cut and what they replace would be even smaller contracts. Imagine Clowney next trying to get another contract or the 3 QBs looking to get there Russel Wilson contracts. I don’t think it would affect us with all the young guys and the couple big ones we have. What do you think of a situation like this happening?
I think the message put out by the team is not aimed at Clowney, but for the fans to temper their hopes. Why not just tell Clowney what you want to tell him. In fact, I’m guessing they did. At some point, they must have said, this is our best offer. We really want you, but we can’t wait or we’ll be stuck without anybody. And we made it clear that if we moved on to other guys, his offer was no longer on the table. All of that seems true. Now, if he comes back ready to actually make a deal, we might be able to shift things to create salary cap at that time. But right now, I doubt we have the real cap space to sign him to anywhere close to what he wants.
“Why not just tell Clowney what you want to tell him”
Because the Seahawks have, in the past, done a lot of negotiating through the media. Just look at Wilson a year ago.
If Earl Thomas gets released I would love to go after him.. Not realistic.. but I just love Earl.
From the report, aside from the moral issues of his infidelity, it doesn’t appear that he really did anything wrong. He should be ok.
No thanks
Hard, Hard, Hard pass on that. Earl in is prime was great and worth the other baggage. That was 4 years ago though. He did not look good last year at all.
He might be good at handling double teams though.
And you know what they always said LOB really meant… love our brothers.
“He might be good at handling double teams though.”
Good Lord Rob, now I’m spitting food on my laptop. Wasn’t the coffee I spit on it from your comedy this morning good enough?
Seeing a few differing numbers. How much cap space do we have now after Fluker and Britt cuts?
Greg H. can correct this if it’s wrong, but Condotta wrote this yesterday:
Around 11mil when you count all (Irvin, rookies, ir, ps).
And I am.not 100% sure about this, but if season starts tomorrow we would have 7,5mil…thats because we released Britt, T2 and Dickson with failed physical…and if they dont sign with another team it would count against our SC…and I think we need to add that number on projected 3mil for new injuries(IR)…
Sounds about right. The rookies salary cap space should eat up about $2.2m. If Irvins contract is about $3m the net cap space used would be about $2.25m. I would say we have about $16.5m by my calculations.
Earl Thomas in bed with other women (plural).
I’m guessing Earl was playing Cover 3?
Plus his brother so maybe cover 2
Earl has always been a strange person.
But a three way with your brother then getting caught and threatened by your wife who was holding a gun?
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Three way with brother is so sick I dont have words to explain it…I have brother and when i read this Earls story it was unimaginable for me…atack on my brain…
– Argue with wife over your drinking
– Storm off with your brother
– Check into Air BnB with brother and some women for a session
– Wife hacks your snapchat to Poirot her way into finding out what you’re up to
– Her and her mates go round to threaten you with a gun and knife
“But we’re asking you to pray for us”
Think it’ll take a bit more than that buddy…
We need Poirot to solve the Clowney caper.
Wow – this is the most interesting news this week.
I’m ready for the Hallmark Movie titled “Brother, Can you lend me a Hand?”
This situation makes me think of the old Eddie Murphy standup skit about how a guy will be caught redhanded and try to turn it back on the woman. Can’t remember if it was on Raw or Delirious. “Yeah, I ***ed her…but I LOVE you”.
Here’s a name to keep an eye on since we know how much Seattle likes their freak athlete pass rushers.
EDGE Joseph Ossai, Texas (6-4, 255)
https://www.si.com/college/texas/football/texas-joseph-ossai-getting-early-2021-nfl-draft-hype
Played more OLB last year, but in Texas’ new system he will supposedly be given more opportunity to just rush off the EDGE. 2021 will be his Junior year.
Here’s what he did against Utah: https://youtu.be/qNZH_eSmJU0
There is an interesting article up on overthecap.com
https://overthecap.com/what-could-happen-to-the-salary-cap-in-2021/
discussing scenarios of a much reduced 2021 cap due to COVID-19.
Another reason for Clowney not getting paid as he would like to and the Seahawks position on waiting out on other FA signings.
The NFL believes it’s extremely unlikely the NFL is cancelled, or even shortened, with it probable that fans are in attendance for all games. So I don’t think this is something that will actually have that much of an impact.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/05/02/extremely-small-chance-that-there-will-be-no-nfl-season-in-2020/
And even if there was a dip in revenues, they’d have to do something in terms of cap relief because so many teams would be screwed by an unexpected dip.
I also don’t think it has any impact on Clowney either, because many other players have signed huge deals with no concern. As Rob said, its all about teams not valuing him as much as he values himself.
So onec more about our salary cap…By over the cap we have 21.3mil…
When we sign our rookies it will count around 2,5mil against SC…
If Irvins cap hit is 4mil it will count 3,25mil against sc…
If season starts tomorrow we will have around 4mil less in SC because of failed physical before releasing of Britt, T2, Dickson and Nazair…
All teams leave around 5mil for IR and PS.(but this is not obligation you dont need to do this but if injury happens you need to creat room for new player somehow)
So 21,3-2,5-3,25=15,55 (if we dont leave anything for IR, PS and everyones of those 4 players sign with another team)
15,55-5,0=10,05(if we leave space for IR and PS and all of 4 sign somewhere).
10,05-3,8=6,25(if we leave money for IR and PS and none of 4 sign somwhere).
Most realistic is that Britt will sign with someone before season starts. So that 3,8 mil becomes 2,6mil. Not so sure about T2(1,05mil) and Ed(1,2mil)…Naz (350k) almost 100% wont sign with anyone…
Sure but there are also some very easy cuts remaining on the roster, such as Branden Jackson, to create even more room when other players are added.
Yes of course…potentially we have 2,5 mil.in Holister and 1.5mil.in Hunt,Moore and Jackson…
Imo Jackson will be cut 99%, Hunt 60%, Holister 30% and Moore 5-10% 😁
You know people are starved for sports when they air a 3-hr special just on the schedule being released… 😂🤷♂️
‘Dan Orlovksy joins us now… Dan what do you think?’
(Shouting) ‘I LOOOOVE THE SCHEDULE. QUICK RELEASE, ONLY THREE HOURS AWAY, AND LOOK, I LOVE MY MAN MCSHAY BUT HE IS SOOOOOOOOO WRONG WHEN IT COMES TO THE RELEASE BECAUSE WHEN I LOOK AT THE TAPE I SEE FOOTBALL GAMES COMING AT SOME POINT IN 2020 AND IT WOULD BE RIDICULOUS TO SAY OTHERWISE.’
LOL. Nailed it.
Soon, ESPN will be hosted by a Muppets.
Let’s cut to Booger for analysis.
Booger: A schedule release means the NFL will tell us when the games are going to be played and what teams they’re playing.
To Stephen A. and Max: “Who is more responsible for the Earl Thomas threesome? Bill Bellichick or Tom Brady?”
lol
lol
My favourite bit of the Earl Thomas story is his response:
“Stuff like this happens, bro.
“We try to live the best lives we possibly can, but sometimes it don’t go as planned.”
Well said Earl. I mean, who among us hasn’t just, you know, had a random gang bang with your brother than been chased with a gun by your wife?
It happens all the time. No biggie.
Just stop Rob. I now have to clean up the coffee I spit on my laptop from laughing so hard at your last 2 posts.
😂
I have to admit I don’t miss the drama of Earl, Sherm and Bennett even a little. They were all great in their prime and had a great swagger but each of them certainly had a shelf life and it expired a long time ago.
Earl has always been one of the weirdest guys in the NFL.. Remember he wore a crown and scepter to his wedding? But this take the cake. Gives the Ravens a nice out if they want on his deal though.
Honestly though…looking back at what we know about those guys’ personalities now (Browner included). How in God’s green earth did Pete keep them corralled enough to win a SB and be 1 yard away from another?
it’s all true – – but i was watching a chunk of the 2012 GB v Seattle game – and sweet jesus did Earl just fly around the field. during those peak years, he was my favorit Hawk. played at a diff speed than anyone else, complete disregard for his body.
it was really fun seeing that defense play . . .
Couldn’t agree more Trevor! Those guys were all time great Seahawks, no question about that, but they wore out their welcome a few years back. No way can/will PC/JS bring any of these guys back so they can finish their careers in a Hawks uniform, it’s just not worth the headache (especially now that they’re all on the wrong side of 30).
Oh, and what happened to Earl does happen to others as well. Just not to normal, sane people who love their wives and families!!
LOL I just spit out my breakfast burrito.
Good one Rob!
Ah, man. I live in New Mexico and haven’t had a good breakfast burrito since lock down.
Oh man there is nothing better in this world than a good ‘ol breakfast burrito!!! Extra hot sauce
Truth. Now, I’m ordering chorizo…and Ibarra. Thanks, man.
crazy! I am also in Ne Mexico. Don’t usually find Hawks fans down here
Moved to Santa Fe right before the pandemic hit. You in Albuquerque?
Lot of Dallas love, here (everywhere).
Yes sir, had family here and started grad school and coaching a couple years ago here. Denver and AZ a lot here, at least the people I interact with are.
When this shit is over, let’s meet at the Dog House (lol), talk Hawks and eat chili dogs.
Who among us was put here to judge
I’m certainly going to judge that Earl might need to run himself a cold bath.
… and on a more serious note, get his life in order.
He’s just getting ready for his new career in Reality TV. After the divorce he will be on “The Bachelor, Two is not Enough”. You heard it here first folks.
Earl is lucky to be alive. All the time you hear about people getting killed in these situations.
And all contestants screened and casted by his brother lol
https://brocouncil.com/images/stories/Articles/2013/11November/earl-thomas-free-safety-advice-seahawks.jpg
I know someone was discussing this recently…
@jessamynmcintyr
#Seahawks 7th round draft pick Stephen Sullivan says on @710ESPNSeattle coaches told him he’s going to be playing tight end
That’s a really full room right now
Locks: Olson, Dissly, Parkinson, Hollister
Practice Squad: Sullivan
Cut: Willson
Thoughts? Who am I missing?
Hollister may well beat our Sullivan and Willson, but I disagree that he is a “lock” to beat them. Hollister played a role last year, and I like him as a player, but he isn’t a world beater that is a lock to be on the roster.
I agree Hollister wont be a lock. Especially at $3.259m non-guaranteed. Sounds about right though what could happen.
Agree. Should have qualified my Dissly (PUP) and Hollister (cap casualty) ‘locks.’ List was more best case scenario.
Why cuts will be difficult: Can they afford to cut Hollister if Dissly is PUP? Run with Olson (yikes!), Parkinson/Sullivan? IMO, there will be more roster insurance this year.
Im curious if Hollister could take over in the FB role. Nick Bellore was primarily kept for his ST value right? I don’t recall having many sets at all with the FB in line in front of RB. Is his role on ST able to be taken by someone else? I think the toughest thing for Sullivan and Willson is that they don’t have a role carved out on ST. Parkinson as well.
I’ve been thinking this as well. Bellores roster spot is really a waste. I think Hollister can take over those duties and he can be replac d on ST.
Bellore is not a waste at all.
This is another topic I feel like we keep coming back to. The best teams always have core special teamer’s on the roster. If you don’t think it’s important, ask the most successful NFL coach in history what he thinks about it.
I didn’t mean to suggest that ST aren’t important, they are, and Seattle has always valued them. I’m just saying that you’d think out of 90 rostered players, they could find a special team guy to handle Bellores duties. I’m not sure if that’s Hollister or not.
It’s not as easy as that though. Special teams sometimes requires a very specialist set of skills.
It’s very possible they’re going to start Dissly on the PUP and Have Sullivan or Willson on the roster.
It’s possible he could but he shouldnt. That injury was early enough and he is you g enough that he should be fully healed.
Agree. If Dissly has another setback, do you think they would consider cutting him?
No
Yeah, I feel the 4th year is going to be magic. lol.
There is also the UDFA Tyler Mabry out of Maryland, and I think there is still another TE listed on the roster – Johnson? Both are probably PS guys at best though.
Hollister has a little different skill set than the others, so I think he has a place. Plus PC loves him and the toughness he showed last season. And he definitely made some plays too…just think how we’d all feel about him if he had gotten into the end zone at the end of the 2nd Niners game! Haha!
I think it’s pretty safe to say those 4 our the the TE’s we’ll see this year barring injuries. I just don’t see how Willson makes the team.
Guy who is insider on twotter for Jags says its not true first 4games are against teams from another conference. Says first game Jags play against divisional rival and week 16 against Foles.
If its true, it means NFL doesnt plan to delay season.
The NFL has already been pretty clear (so much so even harbinger of doom Mike Florio reported it and bought in) that they fully expect to play a full season, simply with the possibility of delaying it by a month in order for all teams to have fans in their stadium.
Tony Pauline on Clowney situation:https://www.spreaker.com/user/pfn365/05-07-20
When he was asked will he sign with any of 32 teams Tony said :”we know its not gonna be Seattle, they said they wont re-sign him at this point”…it on 9min mark…
Tony is simply relaying what’s in the media.
I love Tony as you all know but this doesn’t mean anything.
Please people. Let’s not just repeating the same tired debate. We don’t need the media to tell us how this is.
Just realized Clowney topic has been keeping everyone busy including twitter, nfl media and other sport writers.
Thank you Rob for articles you write, I look forward to read them in this different world. Thank you SDB gang for your comments.
Any other year this would be of interest to Hawks fans because the pass rush was so bad but not getting anywhere near this type of coverage nationally. People are starving for sports look at the NFL draft record setting ratings this year.
I was doing a little more reading about the roster expansion for the upcoming season. There has been a little confusion on its its going straight from 53 to 55 or how it will work. This is the best way I can sum it up.
-The practice squads will go from 10-12 in 2020
-The game day active roster will go up from 46 to 48 players but one of the two extra spots has to be an offensive lineman
-Teams can choose two players from there practice squad every week to add to the roster of 53 to get to 55 (they could take 1 or they could take 0)
-If a player does get moved from the practice squad to the roster he can be sent back to the practice squad 2 times without having to go through waivers (kind of like how they do it in baseball)
So straight from the end of camp they will only be picking 53 players just like before. Sorry if someone covered this already.
Funny skit about Earl.
https://twitter.com/barstoolsports/status/1258437876402003968
I have no idea what is going to happen with Clowney but what I think happened is the Hawks said to CLowney we won’t tag you and in return for letting you test the market we would like to have the opportunity to match any contract you get before signing.
Then the free agency period comes and Clowney does not get any significant offers near the $ he was looking for. So the Hawks make him a fair but not market setting offer that is significantly above anything else he has been offered but not at the level Clowney wants. So PC/JS say ok lets get this done because we have to build a roster. Clowney says no thanks I have already made $50 mil I can wait and see if I get a better offer. JS says we can’t wait we need to build our team and gives him a deadline which passes and the Hawks go sign Irvin and Mayowa.
So now they still need a pass rusher but have limited cap space and Clowney is the best option put there still by a mile so of course they are leaving the door open and would like to re-sign him but now the deal will be on terms that work for them if any deal gets done.
I don’t think we need to keep speculating about it.
Some people complain about how often I write about the Clowney saga — but this is why. All the non-stop speculation when really it’s a very, very simple situation.
1. There was no agreement about what the Seahawks would or wouldn’t do upon trade apart from their promise not to tag him (which was fair enough).
2. As he entered free agency, no team has come close to the money Clowney expected he was going to be offered. Thus, he hasn’t signed anywhere.
3. As a consequence, he has decided he’s going to wait this out. Which is his prerogative. It’ll be frustrating to teams, especially the Seahawks because they will want this sorted and have probably made the best offer. But that’s his choice. And anyone who wants him now is going to either have to meet his demands or wait this out a bit.
4. The Seahawks clearly are willing to wait this out because otherwise they would just press on and sign Everson Griffen instead (or Geno Smith, a defensive tackle etc).
5. What we’re seeing now are some classic negotiating through the media tactics. Clowney has used the media via the form of a workout video and interview. Seattle keeps telling the reporters who contact them ‘they’ve moved on (but we’re still open to it)’.
I’m afraid Seahawks fans are just going to have to come to terms with the fact this isn’t getting resolved any time soon. But it’s pretty cut and dried. We don’t need ‘updates’ from the media citing team sources. We know what’s going on, there or thereabouts. And there’s still a pretty good chance he re-signs.
One question for all…do you think its possible they go with only three pure DT (NT + 3T) on 53 roster?
Depends who the three are
I actually think it’s probable. Pete has talked up Green and Collier’s ability to move inside on passing downs to make up the numbers.
I think someone like Mone would have to really earn a spot on the roster for them to keep 4.
I like Mone but he would be a good practice squad guy.
Reed, Poona and Woods type?
It could happen.
That does not attack my brain as much.
🙂
Absolutely. He was cheating his wife, and way she caught him says he probably was new at it. 😂😂😂
Maybe next time they should go and play golf.
I am with my wife since i was 19, so its 16years now and I never cheated her,so thats what I think about cheating …but i really cant be so hard on ET and judge him as he did something really awfull when we know how many profesional athletes doing that…
I think it’s perfectly fair to judge him.
Sometimes it’s fair to say — that guys an arse hole.
Remember Walter Jones? I remember him holding out during the offseason right up until games started multiple times, and then would own everyone.
I hope for a Walter Jones ending to this saga 😉
Ugh, but I hate being patient during coronavirus. Just sign the ?@({‘n deal man so we can discuss the impending Russell Wilson – Geno Smith QB controversy. Go Hawks!