John Schneider prefers the 2016 draft

April 6th, 2017 | Written by Rob Staton

John Schneider spoke on Brock and Salk yesterday and had this to say about the 2017 draft class:

“I don’t like it quite as much as I liked it last year. I think there’s different parts of it that I do like and that we want to pick in that range. We have, what? Two weeks left… so we have some time to kind of get back with everybody but just sitting there by myself staring at it at night… I’m not there yet. Last year I just felt like it was kind of thick all the way through and we were willing to pick players all the way through. This year it seems that there’s some gaps in there that you may be able to… which for us not having a fourth and a fifth this year may work out in our favour.”

So what can we take from this? Here’s my best guess:

— Does the quality of the draft class drop off a cliff before, around or just after Seattle’s three third round picks? The Seahawks own picks #90, #102 and #106.

— Schneider more or less spells this out: “…not having a fourth and a fifth this year may work out in our favour.” However, if he merely didn’t see value in those rounds he probably would’ve been more positive about the situation. After all, they don’t have any picks in rounds four or five. Yet he still offers a lukewarm review of the class. It’s possible he doesn’t expect to get great value in the late third.

— The Timmy Jernigan trade is perhaps indicative of this situation. The Ravens, knowing they were unlikely to pay Jernigan big money at the end of his contract, traded him to Philadelphia to move from #99 to #74. It possibly highlights how teams are viewing this class. Is it relatively deep up to the #75-90 range, followed by a big drop off?

— This could be impacting how they view the value of pick #26. They might want to trade down but if the return is a third, fourth or fifth round pick they’re not really interested in, is it worth moving down?

— If they don’t like their options in round three, it could tempt them to use their extra picks to trade up at some point, or acquire 2018 stock.

—- Some of Schneider’s disappointment might be influenced by a desire to increase depth and competition in a number of areas. This draft might present an opportunity to get a couple of early contributors but it might be light on overall depth once you get out of the top 75-100. And Seattle’s best work under Schneider and Carroll has come between rounds 3-7.

— It’s also possible, as we touched on yesterday, that some of the players we previously expected to be there at #26 are gradually moving up draft boards. It’s at least somewhat possible Obi Melifonwu, Kevin King and Adoree’ Jackson won’t be there, plus some other blog favourites. That could also be provoking a tinge of disappointment. There will still be good options though — such as (possibly) Tyus Bowser, T.J. Watt or Chidobe Awuzie.

— I spent a bit of extra time watching Awuzie yesterday. He’s a warrior for sure. And while he’s nowhere near the sudden, spectacular athlete Adoree’ Jackson is — he’s more of a threat screaming off the edge, making plays in the backfield and he’s an underrated playmaker. Awuzie is also big-time in terms of character. His interviews are possibly the second best I’ve seen this year behind only Jarrad Davis. He’s one to keep in your thoughts.

150 Responses to “John Schneider prefers the 2016 draft”

  1. Hawks22Fun says:

    Nice write up Rob!

    What do you think of all this ‘trade Sherman’ talk?
    710 Seattle Radio is having some strong opinions to move on from him, and that is coming somewhat from the locker room…Wow.

    I started looking ‘for fun’ at who might trade their #1 AND a player, as JS specified, for Richard…I just looked for WR’s to add…

    11 Saints – They don’t have the cap room AT ALL…moving on…
    12 Browns – It would help eat up their cap, but I suspect them going younger…

    14 Eagles – They get Sherm, we get 14 and Dorial Green-Beckham. Pete finally gets his BIG WR, and the Eagles secondary makes a leap.

    15 Colts – They get Sherm, we get Phillip Dorsett. He has been a big disappointment, but has electric speed…

    18 Titans – ” “, we get Tre McBride…NOT a proven player…

    24 Raiders…Now this could be nice…Trade BOTH Lynch and Sherm together for maximum Lynch value… We get #24, and flip our 2nd and 3rd round picks…58 for 56, 90 for 88…OR try and swap just 102 for 88…that trade up would make JS happy like you said in this draft.
    So we end up with 2 R1 picks, and move up 102 to 88…

    Then hopefully we hit on Obi at 24 and King/Adoree at 26!

    Just some food for thought…any takers?

    • Nate says:

      That’s close to what I was thinking..Raiders trade.
      I haven’t gauged the feeling or Rd of Josh Jones, if we go other than DB first pick?

    • Del tre says:

      https://twitter.com/ESPNNFL/status/850043679041519617
      Nope. Deion, Sherman, guys like them come once in a lifetime.

      • icb12 says:

        Ironically enough, Wasn’t it between the 6th and 7th season when Deion went from the Niners to the Cowboys?

        He won a ring in 94, and then the Sanders Sweepstakes happened and he won another with the cowgirls in 95 i believe.

        Interested choice of seasonal breakdown on that tweet.

        • Del tre says:

          Interesting because the team that got the corner in the trade won the superbowl. We are on the losing end of the trade historicallt then as well. Good point

          • williambryan says:

            +1

          • Del tre says:

            Cannot believe it’s this serious. I hope I’m right but its starting to look like I’m gonna be wrong. I wonder if all the talk about the patriots beinf the trade Partners means we get Malcom Butler and another player or next years first. I really don’t like this but maybe the Hawks think Elliot is going to make huge strides. I’d want a top 15 pick ideally but its looking like that might be unrealistic. We need a corner that we can count on to become elite in a short time. It’s a tough situation

            • STTBM says:

              Pats reportedly out of the running, not interested in Sherm now. Too much blabbing in the media…

    • LeoSharp says:

      The raiders probably need more help in Nickel. I think Adoree Jackson would be ideal for them

    • DLep says:

      Sorry Im confused, 710 radio personalities are of the opinion of moving on? Or they are saying that sources say that sentiment from some in the locker room are saying move on?

    • Rob Staton says:

      At the moment it seems to be trending one way. It’s hard to imagine nothing happening, no motion or statement of a truce or reconnection and just moving forward without a trade. Yet — everyone still seems to be suggesting nothing is likely. So I don’t really have a strong feeling on what happens next.

      • Hawksince77 says:

        But how does all this trade talk effect the strength of the roster? The Seahawks are already down one starting CB, and now openly discussing trading the other. Do they have starting-caliber CBs on the team we don’t know about?

        JS has historically wanted to draft without out any glaring needs. Thus his work in FA prior to the draft. This year OL and LB, and a safety. No CBs. Why would he consummate a trade, or even seriously consider it, and then go into the draft with an apparent crater in their roster?

        I think the trade talk is genuine. Everything points to it being seriously considered. So what gives?

        • Hawks22Fun says:

          Timing I feel…JS knows he can’t resign all his guys, and to dump a $11 mill a year for a 4 year rookie contract would help cap wise a lot.

          This draft is “Seriously Loaded” at CB/DB, so the timing seems to be of a possible benefit…plus the ‘timing’ os Sherm’s antics last year…

          • DLep says:

            Agree, I think he is taking the long view. They have a ton of money tied into a few key defenders who all happen to be of similar age. Not that those guys are old now, but they will be in 2-3 years. Only Bobby is kind of on the youngish side there. I think Schneider is trying to balance out the age and contracts on the defense a little bit. Clark a couple years ago and Reed last yr, plus Bobby, those really the only youngish key pieces on the defense.

            They dont want to be in a situation of blowing up in a couple years and taking a major step back all at once. They’d rather gently peel off vets and larger contracts and replace with younger cogs – the idea being you take a small step back in the short term, but the presence of the other vets softens the impact. Then the next year maybe you cycle one or two more guys replacing vets w youth, so on and so forth. That way you are gently turning over the roster instead of a major turnover all at once.

            Then John looks at the draft and says hey its really strong at CB, its the position where I am most likely to get a strong talent to replace Sherman (acknowledging that Sherman is a top 3 corner and you cant expect that performance level from a rookie). But if say they get King, and he has a year similar to Marcus Peters in his rookie year, are they really that much worse overall? If they get King and Jackson or King and Obi – you reduce the number of snaps Lane is on the field (I think most agree he was subpar last yr) and then maybe even if at CB1 spot you take a step back overall you are okay because King+Obi is not too much of a drop from Sherman+Lane.

            11m is cleared form the cap both this year and next – you can extend guys w this year’s cap space and maybe go after a prime free agent next year (another one in his prime and younger). Maybe McDougald plays really well and you want to keep him. Now you have King, Obi, Clark, Reed, McDougald, prime free agent as young pieces on the defense and you start to tilt the roster back to youth more.

            Anyways Im ranting but for all the reasons above are why I am personally not so opposed to a trade provided the right plan is in place to fill in with dynamic replacements – and I think this is the potential draft to do it.

            • RWIII says:

              D. You are not ranting . You are clearly reading my mind.

              Don’t know if Richard Sherman gets traded. I know that if he is traded Seattle probably doesn’t get back fair market value in a trade. If Seattle would trade Sherman it wouldn’t be until the day of the draft. I don’t see John Schneider trading Sherman to an NFC team.If would have to be a team in the AFC. A team the needs a CB and also has cap space available.

            • Hawks22Fun says:

              Well Well said DLep.

              I have been pondering thru the day, and Philly at 14…

              …is interesting…What if we give them Sherman for 14 and DGB…we get Pete’s BIG WR and a 1R to replace Richard…?

              • Ty the Guy says:

                I DO NOT WANT SHERMAN TO BE TRADED *** Just to be Clear***

                But what if we traded Sherm and a 3rd to Tennessee for #18 and Jack Conklin or Taylor Lewan?

                Is Sherm’s trade value that high?

                This trade would significantly address the OL issues and give us 2 firsts to restock the secondary. Would be like a Kevin Costner movie where we end up with a starting LT and 2 stud rookie DBs.

                But again I say that Sherman is vitally important to our success next year and beyond. This trade just shows what I think of his value.

                • STTBM says:

                  They would never trade someone as young and good as Lewan for Sherm right now. Not happening.

  2. LeoSharp says:

    I think it’s definitely related to the needs they have this year. TE and RB will be stocked in that range two positions that really don’t need to be addressed whereas the quality at CB and LB will likely drop off by the end of round 3

    • Jason says:

      This makes me wonder why they resigned Luke Willson. I know it is only a one year deal, but TE is so deep that we could have traded back and gotten value in 4th or 5th round. Plus the money spent on Willson could have been used somewhere else.

      • GerryG says:

        Because he knows the system, and it works well for the comp formula.

        That said, I agree with you.

      • Hawks22Fun says:

        Well, Luke is SUPER affordable at a $800,000 signing bonus,
        and $1 million non-guaranteed base salary…

        That’s Peanuts for a Solid TE. I was amazed some other team didn’t get him into their ‘passing offense’…he is a fast TE…

        • Jason says:

          I know it is affordable, but could that have been the difference in getting Lang. Not saying I was for that move, but just a thought.

      • Rob Staton says:

        The good TE’s might be gone by R4-5.

  3. Nick says:

    When I heard that interview and this quote in particular, I knew you were going to highlight it. A very revealing answer by JS. It highlights a couple of things for me (adding onto your great analysis):

    -Expect to see the Seahawks address their stated positions of need (LB, OL, CB, potentially DE) with their picks from Rd1-3.

    -Drafting a straight up CB in Rd 1 continues to look less and less likely to me. There’s nowhere near as big of a drop off with the DB class as there is with OL, LB, and DE. Seattle can afford to pick up a Witherspoon, Tankersley, Jones (??) or Rasul Douglas later on. The drop off for OL seems to be quite steep and there aren’t many early round picks with good TEF scores.

    -While Rob mentions they may not like to trade back to gain another third or fourth, they could again use this extra capital to move up and grab a “must have” player. That seems likely. They’ve shown a propensity for both trade backs and for moving up with extra draft capital.

    -If Lamp or Bolles aren’t there at #26, expect us to address OL in Rd2-3. Siragusa and Asiata jump out as potential options.

    What do other people think? Would love to hear your thoughts.

    • Nate says:

      Definitely agree.
      Bowser is a badass name anyway lol

      • Hawks22Fun says:

        After signing Luke Joeckel and Oday Abushi, I FEEL that don’t want to use another R1 pick this year on OL. I feel the top 3 will be gone.

        Plus, as a DB coach his whole life, Pete has to be “Foaming at the mouth” to get his hands on an Obi Melinfonwu, or Kevin King, or Adoree, etc…

        I say Stay put in R1 and take your favorite DB, then LB/S/DB in round 2(trade up or not), then OL in the late 3rd…

        With all this Sherman talk, I bet they draft 3, yes THREE DB’s of different skill sets…Imagine bringing in Obi, King, and Rasul Douglas all in one draft.. Yikes!

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think, based on what JS says, the onus will be on finding impact players in R1 and possibly R2, whether it’s CB, pass rush, LB, OL or another area.

  4. Rowlandice says:

    Well timed article Rob! I’ve been checking out the top 100 players trying to see where some of SDB favorites are fitting and it’s looking like this draft is top heavy for sure. I’m sure there will be some nuggets found in later rounds, but last year JS said they had draftable grades on players thru RD7 and UDFA.

  5. KingRajesh says:

    I agree with Schneider, and I think the cliff is in the late 90s. After messing around on Fanspeak’s mock draft simulator with all of the big boards, I can usually get great value in the 1st, 2nd, and the first 3rd rounder, but by the time I get to 102 and 106, I’m starting to reach.

  6. Trevor says:

    Rob

    I think if JS is really trying to trade Sherm he could be posturing to try and get a higher pick. That being said he is surprisingly upfront about things compared to most front offices.

    I am in the process of doing a Top 100 Big Board and I have to admit after 80 things start to get slim with regards to players who fit the profiles you have outlined that the Hawks look for. I actually think the difference between 5th round to UDFA is slimmer than ever this year.

  7. Matt says:

    Awuzie, despite the lack of length, definitely screams old school Seahawk. I’m really curious if we see some of the “standards” go out the window this year, in favor of guys who are just tough customers that will help re-establish the edge the Seahawks normally play with.

    • Rob Staton says:

      For a while now I’ve wondered whether that nickel spot is the key to everything. Whether it’s a corner of a Buffalo. That ultimately upgrading the fifth DB on the field might be something they seriously look at with their first pick. And working inside, length might not be such an issue.

      • DJ 1/2 Way (Sea/PDX) says:

        Giving us a 1st rd pick of Jackson or Baker! Maybe a couple others. We can tell, reading SDB for the last couple weeks, that you really want Jackson. My sense is that he will be a better nickle right away against the pass than Baker, Obi or King. Will this get the Seahawks off the field on third down? If so, then sign me up.

        I would be happy with any of the four, but it seems the “safest” pick is King, the highest ceiling and biggest risk might be Obi and that Baker is the best one of the four to eventually replace ET, but the decisive factor is likely the special team contributions of Jackson. He will also have more impact in 2017 and the Seahawks want to win now.

        • Dutchenstein12 says:

          This is definitely where I’m leaning. I think a dynamic nickel/buffalo will help us the most in 17. I think we only take King if the rest of the guys are gone or if we trade Sherm. I think I would go with this order: Obi, Adoree, King, Budda then Peppers. Really hope we get one of them, can’t believe we still have to wait 3 more weeks…

      • STTBM says:

        Thats a really good point Rob. They also reportedly were interested in William Jackson last season, and he wanst quite their ideal. I think they are willing to bend/break their ideal if a guy has other attributes they like and/or they have a serious need. And the nickel spot does seem to be a major concern with Lane not holding up there.

  8. DLep says:

    Any sense Rob on whether, if the cliff is around pick 90-100, the Hawks package their first third and one of the comps to then move up in the third? In an attempt to nab three impact player with the first 3 picks?

  9. Rawls1234 says:

    What are your guy’s opinions on LT Antonio Garcia?

  10. Mike says:

    Chidobe Awuzie is much more physical than Jackson, which seems to fit the Seahawks mold. I get that he’s less “sudden” and the Hawks tend to like traits that jump off the page, but I have a hard time viewing Jackson as better than Budda Baker as a slot guy save for the world class speed and return capabilities. I really like the screaming off the edge qualities of Awuzie or Baker better than Adoree Jackson.

  11. Mike says:

    Also, Rob, what are the odds Seattle packages a few late picks with its R1 to jump way high in the first to grab Bolles or Reddick?

  12. Aaron says:

    Seems like JS getting five picks in the first three rounds is exactly what he wanted. I had a feeling that our only good crop of day 1 impact players are going to come out of those first five picks. The late round picks should focus on players who they don’t want to miss out on before UDFA begins. Hope they snag 2 DBs, 1 OL, and either a TE or WR with those five picks.

    On another note, all this Sherm trade talk has me wondering. Who would we be willing to give him to? Not in division or conference, surely not an AFC power like the Pats or Steelers. Has to be a team that, while they would improve greatly from adding Sherm, would not pose an immediate threat to challenge for a SB for at least 2-3 years. Still put the likelihood of Sherman being traded at 25%, but we got to be careful who he would go to should it happen.

    • C-Dog says:

      Sherman’s rumored preference is for it to be a championship contending team, though. At age 29, not sure how excited he would be to be dealt to a team that is 2 or 3 years away from contending. He could threaten to hold out and make life difficult for the team trading for him, and if Seattle’s asking price is a quality player and a high round pick in return, what team would risk all that for a disgruntled player who will be 30 years old in a year?

      I think to satisfy both sides, it would almost have to be a non conference team who has a chance to win it all now. The Pats, Steelers, and Raiders might be ideal for both sides. If Atlanta, GB, or some other NFC contender sweetens the deal to compel Seattle to trade in-conference, they might work as well.

      • Aaron says:

        Guess I just want none of the risk involved with giving Sherm to a contender and all the reward in getting a first rounder and/or a quality starter. This line of thinking is probably why I don’t invest heavily in the stock market…lol! I’d be okay with giving him to the Raiders. They are really just a decent defense away from SB contention. I would hope for one of their o linemen and a first in return, probably too steep but that would be my asking price.

        • C-Dog says:

          I think this might be why both sides are saying a trade might not happen. Sherman probably would rather stay in Seattle than be dealt to a team a few years away from contention, and Seattle probably isn’t going to hand a pro bowl cornerback to a contending team for peanuts, risk watching their former player help take that team deep into the playoffs while they struggle to improve their roster.

          Conversely, in a deep DB draft, a contending team probably isn’t going to say, “sure we’ll give you our first round pick, and a quality starter for a nearly 29 year old cornerback” when they can keep that quality starter and draft a quality cornerback that they can bring in on a cheap rookie deal.

          This probably plays into what JS indicated about this draft being kind of top heavy. Teams are probably going to want to hold onto their top 75 to 90 picks. If a trade were to happen, and Seattle got a second round pick and a quality starter for Sherman, IMO, and at the risk of upsetting a number of folks on this board, I think that would probably be as good deal as one might suspect.

          People want to look at the Revis to the Bucs deal and compare it to dealing Sherm, but how well did that work out for the Bucs? Any GM with a trading interest would probably site that as not a good deal.

          One thing’s for sure, Seattle sure knows how to keep an offseason interesting.

        • DJ 1/2 Way (Sea/PDX) says:

          I think there is a chance that Sherman is a destabilizing force for his new team, especially if they do not have a free safety like Earl Thomas to cover deep for him.

          When it did not go well in 2016 he lost it. Why would he not lose it in 2017? I say send him to our biggest competition like a smart bomb ready to knock out the performance and chemistry of one of our big rivals. That means Atlanta, Dallas, NO or Green Bay. Even the forty niners, who are trying to duplicate our defense.

          I would also consider making sure it is a bad situation like Cleveland. Rewarding a player for making trouble by sending him where he wants is a bad precedent. Sending him to suffer in Cleveland, even for a lower bid, would show the rest of the players it is better to make the best of your situation rather than, seemingly, making the worst of it.

          Also, I think Richard wants to leave because he does not want to face what he has done. Especially his conflict with Jim Moore. That was so strange what he did, then it got even stranger when he tried to blame it on the media. It is one of Sherman’s strengths that he will not back down. It is also a flaw and I think there is no going back. He might ruin his career before admitting he was wrong.

          He was one of my favorite players ever. Until 2016 I respected him both on and off the field. This whole thing is breaking my heart. It could be a terrible football move, and it could save the 2017 season. I say the trade needs to net a 2017 first round pick or two second round picks at least, and I doubt we get that. How about a Cleveland 2nd and 3rd in 2017? I would take it.

          • peter says:

            It’s a pretty evil thought process but a team with a high second and a high third like Cleveland, I’d take it. In this draft pick #26, and a high second, seattle’s natural 2nd rounder, and 3-4 third rounders would be a pretty sick way to reload for the future defensively.

          • STTBM says:

            I hear you DJ. Sherm has gone off the rails, and is a slave to his pride. What a waste…

            Its just speculation, but from what Ive seen, he may not want to play for Kris Richard anymore. From where I sit, it appears that K Richard has done a rather poor job with fantastic talent, and often gotten too “cute” with his playcalls and complexity on defense, as if he were trying to make the defense all about him and not the players.

            Remember Sherm when asked what the key to our Defensive dominance in 2013 was? he said simply “Personnel”. Not scheme, not discipline, not coaching; Personnel! And I agree with him. Its also letting your best guys do what they do best. Remember how angry Browner and Kam were after a couple losses (Miami, for one) when Bradley was DC in 2012? Browner was visibly and audibly pissed after the game that Bradley made them play “Off-Man” and Zone and wouldnt let them do their thing. And they lost because of it. And remember when Quinn came in and simplified things and our D became awesome? He let the players do what they do best, and stayed aggressive without getting overly complicated.

            K Richard seems to be a hybrid between Bradley’s Prevent Cover 2 tendencies and Quinn’s Cover 1 simplicity and aggression. And his version is the weakest of the thre three.

            Add to that the sideline blowup where K Richard erroneously called out Sherm for McCrays mistake and Sherms explosive reaction, and to me it appears very likely that Sherm and K Richard are not going to coexist well.

            If it were up to me, I would flat fire K Richard and move on, but Im also quite sure lots of things are going on behind the scenes I know nothing about.

            For instance, K Richards use of differing playcalls and complex schemes may have been a reaction to injury and ineffectiveness at the corner and safety positions and/or the lack of consistent pass rush. So who knows? But thats my thought process, for what its worth.

  13. nichansen01 says:

    Trade up trade down. I saw trade down from 26 for an additional third and then trade two of our thirds to move up to the early third.

  14. Misfit74 says:

    Stay at 26 or trade up and get your guy. Make hay with our four 2/3rd round picks. High upside flyers late. pwn the UDFA market post-draft.

    Obi/King/Reddick/Bolles or bust. Well, for the most part. 😉

  15. 503Hawk says:

    Dude, I just love your site. Love your writing style; professional (leave the jokes & locker room verbiage to other sites), an economy of words but with detail, great insight and analysis (may not agree with you all of the time, but well thought out). And best of all, you are a fellow “True Blue” Hawk fan.
    Thanks again. I hope we see you in a national market. (nfl.com or nfl network).

    • PPast says:

      Second the accolade. In addition to the great insights and information Rob provides, he’s also fostered a community of knowledgeable posters who add to what’s been reported without making the snide comments found on too many sports sites. Kudos to Rob and the contributors!

      • Dutchenstein12 says:

        Agreed. How awesome would Rob be on 710 ESPN? I would listen to his show every day. Then he could still write articles about the Hawks. No question this is my go to site for Hawks draft talk.

        Also agree on the comments. This is the only site where I actually read most of the comments. This wait for the draft is killing me…

        • peter says:

          True. Even commenters I don’t always agree with I like to see how their ideas evolve or not. Sometimes my thoughts on a player changes because someone believes in their point so much that I start to consider it.

          • Ishmael says:

            So true, I actually think it’s really important to listen to people outside your comfort zone, so easy to get locked in a bubble otherwise. I change my mind on players based on what people say here alllll the time

    • Rob Staton says:

      Thanks guys, appreciate those words 🙂

  16. Greg Haugsven says:

    This article is saying it’s Sherman who initiated trade talks:

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/

      • Hawk Eye says:

        was just reading that myself.
        I have gone from thinking this will not happen, to now expecting it to happen.
        Not saying it is a good thing, depends what they get for him, depends where he goes.
        With Shead injured, Thomas and Kam coming back from injuries and Lane have a mediocre last season, it seems risky to lose Sherman, but everyone gets replaced eventually.

        As to Sherman wanting to go to a contender, they can send him where they want, although the other team has to consider how he will react.

        It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall and get the true story of why he wants out, or why they want him out, etc. And would love to know what other teams are really offering.

        either way, I think JS and PC have earned the right to be trusted with the process, and I hold no hard feelings to Sherman if he wants out. C’est la vie.

  17. BobbyK says:

    This entire Sherman thing is disappointing. From the moment he talked about “kumbaya” last year – I figured something was amiss. “The Tip” is the iconic play in franchise history and it would have been nice if he’d played his entire career in Seattle. Although it could still happen, I no longer expect it.

    There’s no way LCB comes close to playing at the level Sherman did or would have. When we talk about “saving money,” the reason for it is because we’re getting worse. If saving money is a good thing, then perhaps they should dump all of our superstars. Or more. The reason we (JS) agreed to give these guys lots of money is because their on-field production is worth it. We don’t get better on the field without Sherman, but it’s possible his private antics made this exile necessary. Teams just don’t get rid of superstars if there isn’t something terribly wrong (and a reason TO was always going to new teams; he had the talent teams couldn’t ignore, but headaches that made all of them get rid of him, too).

    You don’t like seeing careers end this way because you know (at least I think) both parties will talk about this current break-up with regret in about 10 years (or think it).

    • CharlieTheUnicorn says:

      When I think about iconic plays….. Beastquake always is a personal fav of mine. The circumstance, the drive, the national “we have no shot” element of that game…. still an amazing play when you watch it on youtube.

    • HawkTalker #1 says:

      Great post. I have been thinking almost the exact same things for quite a while. In my mind there is no way, and I mean impossible, for a rookie or any other back up currently on Seattle’s squad, to step in and replace Sherman. I am 100% convinced the Seahawks will be worse off the year he has traded and 1 to 2 additional years afterwards. Although it may be a foregone conclusion him or a necessary evil , I’m not gonna like it regardless.

      • CHawk Talker Eric says:

        “there is no way, and I mean impossible, for a rookie or any other back up currently on Seattle’s squad, to step in and replace Sherman.”

        Some fans said the same thing back in 2011 when Trufant got injured and Sherman stepped in.

        Unless you can predict the future, there is no way you can make that assertion. Okay, you can make it, but it doesn’t mean anything.

        I get the trepidation about trading Sherman. And I agree there really isn’t anyone who could replace him exactly. But we don’t need someone to replace him exactly, as much as we need someone to hold down the LCB position and integrate with the rest of the DBs as a unit.

        Sherman wasn’t the best CB in football last year. There were games he gave up completions, some big ones. I’d bet there’s at least one DB in this draft who will come in and have a better rookie season than Sherman did last year.

        • MSL says:

          Yes you can say that. There’s no way someone comes in and outplays a perennial all-pro in this defense. Come on man. The defense will certainly be worse without Sherm for AT LEAST this season.

      • peter says:

        I guess I’ll keep on disagreeing with this sentiment. Richard Sherman was an afterthought CB with two years of exp who got picked in the fifth round who wasn’t even going to play let alone start until 2 other CB’s got hurt in front of him. The rest is history.

        It’s absurd to look into a crystal ball and “know,” that absolutely no rookie will be as good as Sherman. If we look back two years there already was a rookie just as good as Sherman. How he plays going forward who knows, but two years into his career his stats are pretty comparable.

        Marcus Peters, KC.

        I get the reservations you both have about losing Sherman. Sherman is a modern icon for the team. But for me Seattle needs to move on sooner than later. i trust PC the DB guru who trained multiple late picks into all pro’s/ pro bowlers, and players who got big second contracts into training up a freak show like King or Obi into becoming a great CB.

        • CHawk Talker Eric says:

          I should’ve refreshed my page before commenting above. I basically said the same thing as you peter.

          • peter says:

            Ha!. I do want to add if it’s not clear that I do love Sherman’s game. And the finger wagging, taunting Washington Fans in the playoffs era was amazing. And being able to “shut down,” one side of the field has been amazing.

            I agree CHawk Talker Eric, however we may alrady be witnessing the beginning of a downturn in SHermam’s skills and talents regardless of trade talks.

  18. Forty20 says:

    Do you think the tape on Joe Mathis is enough for the Seahawks to warrant them taking him as that early round pass rusher Rob? PFF (love or hate them) tweeted today that he was their #2 ranked pass rusher in productivity prior to his season ending injury.

    • Awsi Dooger says:

      I’m absolutely stunned there hasn’t been more discussion on Mathis, here or anywhere else. Violent attacking player.

      I had a wager on Washington in that Friday nighter against Stanford. Joe Mathis was a major reason it was such a cupcake ride, settled at halftime.

      He has had some off field issues.

      Anyway, depth of draft is another category the Happy Adjusters love to go overboard. Invariably when it’s asserted as a great draft in terms of depth or lousy draft in terms of depth it’s actually a normal year in terms of depth. Given the number of players involved everything tends to settle in the same range. My rule is 10%. I’ll grudgingly accept a 10% variance either way but not more than that. Beyond that and you’re really straining base probability. Same with segments of the draft. I’m not buying it when let’s say pick 45 in a touted year is proposed as the equivalent of 35 in a standard year, and so forth.

      • Forty20 says:

        His inability to participate in the Combine or at his Pro-day have definitely taken him out of the spotlight but he is still a likely Rd.2-3 guy. He measured at the Combine at 6’2″, 266 pounds and with 33″ arms so he could turn into a great rotational EDGE guy at Seattle with an eye to starting once Cliff Avril moves on. Love his violent hands and hustle to getting the QB down.

  19. Overtime says:

    Boykin arrested again. Time to put Joshua Dobbs in everyone’s mock draft.

    • HawkTalker #1 says:

      How stupid can that guy be? I was actually a fan of his two, not like he’s got something so horrific he doesn’t have my support any longer, but if you’re not smart enough to stay straight when you’re a back up QB on Seattle’s team and you are not so good that you could not be replaced, you might as well walk with football right now.

    • Vista says:

      This arrest was because it was a warrant for violating his probation from fighting a cop.

      • jujus says:

        ^ this isnt real news. the team knew this was coming, he was on probation and the incident was bound to trigger a warrant.

    • D-OZ says:

      Dobbs, the sleeper. 🙂

  20. CharlieTheUnicorn says:

    Another part of that conversation talked about the “Patriots” model over the last 17 years or so….. ie, moving on from a quality player 1 year too early than 1 year too late… and if Seattle really views Sherman as 1-2 years from his prime, then they should move on.

    The 710 radio personalities also think this was going to be the last year of the LOB as it was constructed, due to age, injury and perhaps new blood brought into the team. Every great team comes to an end sometime…. how they end is another matter.

  21. KD says:

    Hey Rob,

    As you have noted several times about the Seahawks drafting corners with 32+ inch arms, correct me if i am wrong, and you may have a better memory of this, but didn’t John Schneider at one time mention wing span rather than arm length when talking about DBs being “long”?

    The reason I mention this is because the thing that I noticed about arm length and wing span is that they don’t seem to necessarily correlate. I take it that wingspan is defined as fingertip to fingertip, but if you take a player like Shaq Griffin who has 32.375 inch arms and a 74.125 WS and compare that to Rasul Douglas who has the same arm length, but a 76.625 WS. And consider Tye Smith who had slightly shorter arms at exactly 32 inches, but his full WS is 78 inches. It would be foolish to say that there is no correlation between arm length and WS, but there is quite a bit of variation between similar measurables.

    So ultimately, is it just the arm length or is wing span the major factor? hopefully you or the rest of the community knows more about this than i do.

    • jujus says:

      its arm length. the wingspan adds in the width of the shoulder girdle which is not going to assist much at all in reaching for a PBU or int.

    • DJ 1/2 Way (Sea/PDX) says:

      Great point. However, I think it is arm length that matters more. That is what determines how far you can reach around the receiver and break up the pass. Unless you can get your shoulder in front of them.

      Rob had numbers on arm length and all pro or pro bowl numbers. It was almost exactly indicative. Outside of one or two players (Peters) all had 32″ arms. Somebody should check on the wing span correlation. A wide chest has to help.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Wingspan certainly appears to be important. Although there record of drafting CB’s with +32 inch arms is consistent enough over seven years to give that strong consideration too.

  22. RWIII says:

    Guys what about this trade senario. Richard Sherman and Marshawn Lynch to Oakland For This year’s first and next year’s 3rd Round .

    • HawkTalker #1 says:

      Only if we are forced to trade him and we have no other option. It doesn’t matter how many rookies we get for Sherman, we are going to be on the bad side of the street for a while.

      • RWIII says:

        Hawk I agree. I have already mentioned that Seattle would not get value if they traded Sherman.

        • HawkTalker #1 says:

          RWIII my hope is the Seahawk front office figures that out as well. I’d still take a loudmouth, somewhat disgruntled Sherman in my secondary, connected with the defense of brotherhood, rather than any other single option I could dream up. Curious from an earlier post of yours, are you NTRP rated?

  23. Coleslaw says:

    If the guys we want are dropping like flies maybe they won’t hesitate to go get King or Melifonwu or Jackson at around 20 ish with 102 or 106

  24. I have no idea how this Sherman situation will work out maybe Titans or or colts or Saints I am sure about their cap space Dallas could be a fit but when does romo money come off the books.but for the most part isn’t kinda limited a few possibilities.I think it probably will happen but how will it make the seahawks better

  25. East Side Stevie says:

    All right fellas who would you rather have at #90 Vince Biegel or Ryan Anderson

  26. DC says:

    Got a feeling the Hawks are going to have a big haul out of the UDFA group this year. Let’s get the draft & aftermath on already!

  27. C-Dog says:

    Seattle does not finding a sufficient trading partner to deal Richard Sherman, and a big contingent of 12s breathe a big sigh of relief. With the 26th pick in the 2017 NFL draft the Seattle Seahawks select Chidobe Awuzie, defensive back, Colorado.

    26: R1P26
    CB CHIDOBE AWUZIE
    COLORADO

    58: R2P26
    EDGE JORDAN WILLIS
    KANSAS STATE

    90: R3P26
    CB RASUL DOUGLAS
    WEST VIRGINIA

    102: R3P38
    WR JOSH REYNOLDS
    TEXAS A&M

    106: R3P42
    S SHALOM LUANI
    WASHINGTON STATE

    210: R6P26
    DL JOSH TUPOU
    COLORADO

    226: R7P8
    G AVIANTE COLLINS
    TCU

    After seeing some flashier names go before them, PC/JS stand pat at 26, and take a player who helps them immediately at nickel, and who they also might consider having him back up ET some, as well. At 58, Carroll has to get freak athlete Willis to add to the pass rush. They get scrappy outside corner in Douglas, a lanky deep threat and redzone WR in Reynolds, and they are happy to come out of R5 with Shalom Luani. They take long coffee and smoke breaks during day 3 as they wait for Josh Tupou to come their way R6, and grab a depth OL in Collins with their last pick.

    Sherman doesn’t pull any funky hold outs. He comes into camp pissed off for greatness. Things aren’t always rosy (in fact, at times, they continue to be downright crusty), but he’s determined to have an outstanding year, does his job, doesn’t talk with the local press, might even distance himself from certain players and coaches, but keeps his eye on the prize to have a great year, and maybe raise his market for a better trade opportunity in 2018, if he still feels he would rather play somewhere else.. or maybe the light bulb goes off in his brain and he realizes that he actually has things pretty good in Seattle, and he and the team are able to work through their issues, whatever they might be, and he ends up staying. Wouldn’t that be nice.

    • CHawk Talker Eric says:

      I wouldn’t be happy with a draft where Awuzie is the pick at 26. Not saying I don’t like him or that he wouldn’t be a good fit in SEA. Just saying he’d be overdrafted going that early.

      And I’d lay even money that Sherman gets traded.

      • Sea Mode says:

        No money on it for me, cause anything can happen, but I don’t think it will just because no team will meet their reported asking price of a very good player and a high pick.

        Obviously they sent him the message that they weren’t happy with him and are not just going to let it slide if he continues to act that way. But it wouldn’t surprise me either if JS were just using this as a platform to open up trade talks with other teams in general. Like it happened with Graham, often trades for one player start off with talks about a different one. And though I’m not sure yet what range JS likes in this draft, his comments clearly point to him wanting to move one way or another.

        • C-Dog says:

          I think they are probably pretty intent on trading him for a player and a pick. They probably don’t want to create more holes by simply dealing him for a first. Honestly, I think I might be more surprised if he’s not dealt with the way this story keeps gaining momentum.

      • D-OZ says:

        Awuzie @26 is not an overdraft for me. Especially if Obi, King and Davis are off the board.

        • C-Dog says:

          I think if Awuzie, or Jackson, or Budda can play nickel and potentially back up ET, those become really interesting additions. Rob has done a great job selling me on the importance of the nickel spot this year.

        • HawkTalker #1 says:

          IMO he is a reach at 26, need a truely special player there or trade down.

    • Sea Mode says:

      I really like the last 4 picks, but the first 3, while solid, feel underwhelming to me. Would rather move around a bit and look to get two impact players rather than settle for three like that. Just my take on those guys though, particularly Willis and Douglas. Would rather go for Tankersley than those two if possible.

      • C-Dog says:

        I think Tankersley’s game is very Seahawky. I also think Douglas has that Seahawky way as well, and his 40 isn’t that far off from one the player who they are looking to deal ran. I think I must be higher on Willis than a lot of other folks. I really like him as an Irvin type rush end and potential SAM

    • peter says:

      Willis is productive but has no momentum. I think he could be a third round pick easily. Everything about his game, to me, seems to be opportunistic. Waiting for plays to break down then striking, catches QB’s scrambling. There are things to like and the numbers are great, but more often than not his tape didn’t seem to match his supreme athletic testing.

      I could see Seattle take Awuzie early. But early for me would be in the third or second round. I have a hard time seeing how Seattle takes a less than freaky athletic prospect (Good speed but not compared to the likes of Obi/King) not a size prospect for their first pick. If they were going that direction I would have to think they would value someone like Adoree jackson as that they would be getting extreme versatility and a player who could play two phases of the game for their first pick.

      • C-Dog says:

        Do we think that those are coachable fixes for new DL coach Clint Hurtt? One thing that’s really difficult to coach is speed and explosion.

  28. coach says:

    What are your thoughts on taking WR Josh Malone Ten in the third round. Bucky Brooks said he thinks this guy will be a star in the league and he’s only starting to scratch at his potential!

    Go Hawks!

  29. Old but Slow says:

    To me, the trend in the last few days is that Bolles may fall to us. In addition, several players seem to be rising quickly, so more dream scenarios come into play. In this year when there seems to be more than 26 players rated as first round, the odds of having an unexpectedly good player available are good.

    Which should we choose (all of these may be gone, this is just dream material)?: Bolles, Reddick, Obi, King, AJackson, Peppers, or Humphrey.

    • Old but Slow says:

      Or, is there someone that you would take ahead of any of those?

      • millhouse-serbia says:

        1. Bolles
        2. Reddick
        3. Humphrey
        4. Obi
        5. King
        6. Adore
        7. Peppers

      • Scotia Seahawk says:

        Where Bolles goes in this draft is going to be one of the most interesting parts of Day 1.
        But even if he were to fall into the Seahawk’s range I wouldn’t be suprised if JS/PC went a different way and left a lot of fans disappointed. Especially the clued up fans on this forum.
        I try to come into the Draft and just enjoy it as a spectacle for that very reason. I remember the frustration on the live forum watching L Blount fall all he way down and watching the Seahawk’s pass every time.

    • Sea Mode says:

      Give me Bolles all day long.

      – We changed gears at the end of the season when PC added CB and depth at LB to OL as our big offseason needs. While we can’t ignore those comments, let’s not forget that we spent the whole season pointing out how the lack of a run game was clearly what held the team back most. (directly affecting the defense as well as the offense was unable to sustain drives) The only reason we started focusing on DBs is because we were pretty sure we would have no shot at the top OL in R1.

      – A tackle prospect like that, who not only is one of the few to meet our athletic profile, but also has that adverse backstory and brings the bully mentality, is too good to pass on with the dearth of OL currently sweeping across the league, proven once again by a crazy FA market at the position.

      – There will still be very good DB/LB to choose from in R2-R3. A starting tackle highly unlikely.

      – If Bolles is still on the board at pick 20 and JS doesn’t think he would make it to us at 26, personally I would send R3P90 to Denver to move up. Having 3 R3 picks makes that an easy call for me.

      R1P20- Bolles
      R2P56- Tankersley/Evans/Maye/Moreau
      R3P102- Daeshon Hall/Carroll Phillips
      R3P106- Armora Darboh
      R6- Jimmie Gilbert
      R7- Glen Antoine

      • LeoSharp says:

        I’m finding to increasingly hard to support Bolles as a round 1 pick. He’s inexperienced, needs to hit the weight room and hasn’t worked out of a 3 point stance much.
        As a 25 year old rookie who is coming out of a spread system I doubt he will make an immediate impact as a rookie.
        The team may as well wait the same time to see how George Fant imporves. He is a better athlete and is probably more ready physically for the NFL at this moment in time
        If Bolles fell all the way to 26 then you could probably trade into the second and still pick him up.

      • Kenny Sloth says:

        Can’t get behind Gilbert Darboh or Evans since his pro day

  30. Old but Slow says:

    Makes sense. Bolles seems to fit the kind of blank slate prospect that Cable likes, and he has the physical ideal, and shows an attitude…gotta think that he would be on the list.

    Reddick, on the other hand, could be an impactful player with some versatility.

    Will JS focus on the O-line first, where even the best (Bolles, Lamp) are likely not first rounders in a good OL draft, or will he look to a superior football player at a position that is not really needy.

    • Misfit74 says:

      ‘superior football player at a position that is not really needy.’

      Hopefully this, to a certain extent. I think Bolles is a superior player, though. I think we pass on a SAM like Davis, for example, but a pass rushing type like Reddick would make great sense. I think it’s a DB, perhaps even if Bolles is there.

  31. Reggie Regg says:

    Grambling State University WR Chad Williams made his official visit to the VMAC. I want this kid so bad. He is really being undervalued! No way he makes it to UDFA.

  32. michigan12th says:

    Trading Richard Sherman makes little sense to me. There has to be something going on behind closed doors. You dont trade a perennial All Pro in the peak of his career unless he is causing distractions or you get a deal you cant pass up. I hear the support for trading him, but it is based on a 50/50 probability. You have a roughly 50/50 chance of drafting a player in round 1 that will be a starter in the NFL, you have a lot less of a chance of drafting a perennial All Pro.

    Think about it, why would teams be willing to give up so much for Sherman, because he is that GOOD!!!! While no one on the team is irreplaceable, besides Wilson, Sherman should be viewed as close to irreplaceable as possible. This trade talk makes no sense, especially the way the front office is going about it. It’s almost like they are trying to shop him. If the Patriots are linked to the trade talk that confirms the price may be lower than we think. They dont have anything left to give for him, besides an average at best corner in Butler, that they aren’t really interested in resigning. There is more to this story, He has definitely broken some bridges with the JS/PC or this would not be a topic of discussion.

    My guess is that A) he is gone before next season for something less than his worth, or B) he comes back and plays but the situation gets worse, or possibly C) Sherman’s brother is right and this is the propper motivation he needs to return to form, but that is the best case scenario and we would be extremely lucky if that happened. I dont see this as a good scenario for our Superbowl chances next year in any way. Something is amiss.

    • C-Dog says:

      What I would like to know is if the team would be trading him if the likes of Earl, Kam, Bobby,etc would be coming into Coach Carroll’s office saying “we can deal with Sherm, Coach. Let’s all relax on this trade talk.” I kinda get the vibe there could be stuff going on internally with the team that is bigger than we’ve seen publicly.

      • Rob Staton says:

        Brock Huard made a good point yesterday. If the Seahawks were risking mutiny with this Sherman situation, they probably wouldn’t be doing it. It’s possible some of his team mates have also had enough of the drama.

  33. Misfit74 says:

    I wish we could talk about something other than a certain CB who may or may not be traded. Doesn’t matter what Rob posts as a talking point, and at no fault of his own, it inevitably devolves into mainstream media fodder.

    • STTBM says:

      Sorry Misfit. Cant help it. The OCD coming out…lol!

    • Sea Mode says:

      I get where you are coming from, but this draft changes completely if we do trade him, so it seems like a good thing to talk about on a draft blog…

    • HawkTalker #1 says:

      Make me sick to talk about. I get it is a variable that would typically be discussed heavily, but even though I’m not a Sherman fan, it is a depressing thought, mostly due to what I see as negative consequ noes in year 1 and probably 2 as well.

  34. STTBM says:

    Really sad to hear all the drama coming from Seahawks and Sherm these days. Usually football is a nice respite from the disturbing news around the world, but lately its just par for the course. To be sure, far more important and awful things are happening, but this Sherm thing is just more downer news…

    Still having a hard time fathoming Sherms behavior, making himself bigger than the team and basically acting as if his coaches and teammates dont matter to him at all. I thought better of him that that.

    Seattle not likely to get Revis-like compensation for him, now that its obvious they NEED to move on. It feels like this team has been disintegrating from within since the moment of that fateful play that decided the Pats SB. Either you move forward, or you wallow in the past–and this team seems determined to wallow rather than rise from the ashes.

  35. Sea Mode says:

    “I don’t think Jamal Adams is going to go as early as I see people mocking him. He’s a good player but I don’t think he’s a game changer. If you are going to be a safety who goes inside the top five, you better make a ton of plays. Look where Landon Collins went. Adams isn’t better than Collins.” — NFC executive

    (Collins went 33 overall)

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000798105/article/sources-tell-us-exec-says-jamal-adams-not-a-game-changer

  36. EP says:

    Think it is more likely that we take a safety/hybrid at 26 (Melifonwu/Jackson/Baker/Evans/Peppers) and hope for a second round CB (Tankersley/White/Moreu/Awuzie/Wilson) OR take a CB at 26 (King/Conley/Humphrey *if they last) and take a safety later on in the draft (Luani/Maye/Williams)?

  37. […] overall though highlights a possible talent drop-off in the late second round — and part of John Schneider’s lukewarm review of the draft class might be in part due to this. Are they going to have to be aggressive to try and manipulate extra […]

  38. Erik says:

    I would take a first and a third for Sherman. The first would have to be in the teens and the third anywhere. I would trade Sherman and Jeremy Lane to a team for a 1st and a 3rd to get rid of their salaries. I think we could see the Seahawks defense show a revised look this year with playing another safety or buffalo (big nickel) in nickel coverage rather than a CB (McDougal signing).

    I don’t see Bolles being available to us unless we trade for a mid first round pick. He would be the only OL I would take realistically for Seattle in the 1st.

    • HawkTalker #1 says:

      No cap savings this year on Lane if we cut him. That being said, I’d still like to dump him to free a roster spot. That’s worth his salary to me.

  39. Sea Mode says:

    Wow, guess I kind of missed DJ’s latest mock from the other day.
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000797538/article/jeremiah-mock-draft-40-no-early-qbs-no-deshaun-watson

    Williams, Davis, and Ross all gone by pick 13. I think Ross will be gone by 13, but the other two I don’t really know where to put them.

    Conley all the way up to 11.

    Seattle takes King.

    No Bolles, Obi, Watson, Humphrey, Charlton, Ramczyk.

    I guess he’s just toying around with a different scenario to shake things up a bit, since the title of the article says: “No early QBs, no Deshaun Watson”

    • Misfit74 says:

      I can see it. Taco is hard to peg (no pun intended), but I tend to think he goes first round. Better tools than guys like Harris. I can see a scenario where lack of arm pushes Watson below other QBs. Watson has the arm strength (or lack thereof) of Graham Harrell.

      Ross has medicals, a big history. I think Corey Davis, especially if he works out Pre-draft, will be a top 10 pick. He is the cream of this year’s WR crop. The other Davis will be a first rounder.

      Fox sports had an interesting mock for awhile but some serious head scratchers, too. http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/nfl-draft-mock-2017-new-updated-expanded-team

      Conley went at 14, C. Davis and Ross shortly after. We took Tankersly at 26.

  40. Sea Mode says:

    “Add Connecticut’s Obi Melifonwu to the list of safety prospects the Dolphins have spent significant time with.¨

    per Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald

    Gulp…