Charles Brown was on Seattle's radar in 2010
This time next week = draft day. Yay for that.
John Schneider held a press conference yesterday to discuss the Antoine Winfield signing and look ahead to next week. Understandably he gave little away regarding this years draft. He did say it was unlikely the team would trade back into the first round and he didn’t give off a vibe that suggested he’d move up at all. He also played down talk of the team having fewer needs this year and how that would impact the way the team is approaching the draft.
The most interesting nugget of information was the talk of 2010. Schneider admitted they went into that first draft in Seattle with a little anxiety. They needed to get a left tackle, but were unsure who they would land. He name-checked Trent Williams, Russell Okung and Charles Brown.
I found the Brown mention interesting and re-assuring. A former USC tackle, he looked like an ideal fit for the Alex Gibbs zone blocking scheme. Tall, athletic, strong in pass protection and keen to get to the second level. I watched many USC games trying to get an angle on the guy and gave him a top-15 grade in the end. There weren’t many players I enjoyed watching more than Charles Brown in 2010.
Both myself and Kip had been given the nod by a little birdie that the team wanted to come out of the 2010 draft with a starting safety and a left tackle. I’m led to believe that at one point there was a feeling Trent Williams could be available at #14 — possibly allowing the team to target Eric Berry at #6. Williams wasn’t considered a top-five lock until the combine. He significantly boosted his stock in Indianapolis and never really looked back. That kind of ended any chance he would come to Seattle and he was subsequently drafted fourth overall by Washington.
In my final 2010 mock draft, I decided to give the Seahawks Berry at #6 and Charles Brown at #14. I’d not heard anything linking Brown to Seattle, but felt based on scheme it would be a smart fit. Especially if they wanted to get the safety first.
When Brown dropped deep into the second round (#64 overall to New Orleans) I was a little surprised, but more cursing my own apparent poor judgement that he could be a first round alternative in Seattle. Then it was revealed he’d got some lingering injury concerns that provoked the fall. So at least there was that.
Hearing yesterday that he was on the teams radar was reassuring (and yes, I appreciate how self-indulgent this article is to this point).
He might not have necessarily been an option at #14, but then Schneider has touched on the chance they had to move down in round one. Things worked out perfectly for Seattle in that they got their tackle (Okung) and safety (Earl Thomas) and both players have since featured at the Pro-Bowl. It’s fun to consider the alternative scenario though. Had Kansas City passed on Eric Berry, he could easily have been the pick at #6. His talent factor would’ve probably won-out over going tackle at that spot. And that could’ve put Brown on the map, even if his NFL career so far has been pretty stop-start.
Schneider has been pretty forthcoming in discussing previous drafts recently. It wasn’t that long ago he name-checked Jabaal Sheard and Andy Dalton as alternative options with the #25 pick in 2011.
Looking back now, could you imagine a Seahawks roster with Dalton under center, Charles Brown at left tackle, Berry and not Thomas in the secondary and a couple of other tweaks here and there. It’s far from a ridiculous scenario.
Some other headlines from the press conference:
– No real news on Chris Clemons yet. Schneider described him as a fast healer, but says the PUP list is still an option.
– Schneider called James Carpenter the “strongest” player on the roster and says confidence is a key factor for the former first round pick as he recovers from another injury setback.
– Brady Quinn is described as a “football junkie”. The Seahawks feel he’ll work well with Russell Wilson.
– Schneider says they don’t go best player available if current projected starters force the board in a different direction. Essentially, it’s a more scientific way of saying that sometimes ‘need’ has an impact on the way things shape out. A lot of teams gives their own players grades and then match it up to the draft board to see where they can make the greatest improvements.
In other news…
It appears Miami are trying to get a trade done with Kansas City for Branden Albert. Once again, the Dolphins front office makes a completely baffling move. They let Jake Long walk because they didn’t want to pay him, and will now have to pay Albert the same (if not more) all while coughing up a second round pick.
There’s a reason why some franchises are perennial struggler’s. Hey, Albert’s not a bad tackle. I just think you’ve got an opportunity to spend three early picks and nail down your left tackle to the long term. Instead, you throw money at a one-dimensional receiver in Mike Wallace and two linebackers. You franchise tag Randy Starks. And you let Long sign in St. Louis. Now you have to scramble around to get Albert with one of those high picks instead of rebuilding the secondary.
There doesn’t appear to be much of a thought process in Miami. Kind of like someone shouts out, “Let’s do this!” and everyone dances a jig. The New England Patriots must sit there every year, look at the rest of their division and let out an enormous belly laugh.
Mike Mayock did a conference call today where he expressed the opinion that Geno Smith would be a poor fit in Buffalo. He was talking strictly about the weather, a view which I’m not a huge fan of. Even after his neck injury, Peyton Manning didn’t appear to suffer any kind of drop off playing in Denver compared to the indoor facilities in Indianapolis. But then I guess he is Peyton Manning.
Even so, it makes you consider the possibility of Smith falling past the #8 pick.
Would the New York Jets double up with the West Virginia quarterback and his former wide-out Tavon Austin? Assuming they complete a trade with Tampa Bay for Darrelle Revis. I’d be more tempted to go after Stedman Bailey later on – a player who went to high school with Smith and shared a lot of chemistry at WVU.
If Geno falls beyond the top ten he could sink like a stone. It could help trigger a quarterback rush in the late first and early second. That wouldn’t be such a bad thing for Seattle, as it increases the chances of other players falling to #56.
A report surfaced recently suggesting a hotel room belonging to two players at the combine had been trashed. Adam Schefter is reporting today that the room belonged to receivers DeAndre Hopkins and Mark Harrison.
The NFL has managed to keep the wonderlic scores under wraps for the most part this off-season. However, that has been one leak today. Tavon Austin apparently scored a 7 on the test.
In other comments JS talked of moving Avril to Sam(some) and pushing KJ to Will. I was a little shocked at that idea at first and thought he was just throwing off the scent from a Will target they had. If anything would not KJ bump Wags to will, I pondered. Did not make sense to me either. Whats your and Kips take?
I think they’re mainly talking about possible looks on defense. If Clemons comes back from his injury, it makes sense to try and get as many pass rushers on the field at once. This is one way of doing that. I doubt it’d be a permanent switch or anything.
It could also be a smoke screen. I’ve felt for some time that JS will love Khaseem Greene.
You were right Rob, it was Khaseem Greene all along!
Not if by chance Aurthur Brown is still on the board. Doubtful that either will be around @ #56 though
Greene is good, and I would be happy if he fell to us, but I also like Sio Moore A LOT. I think he plays a little faster than Greene, and his tackling/physicality is better IMO. But his field awareness and instincts arent as developed as Greene.
If Greene is the guy, I’m going to like the pick.
He was identified early on as being a Seahawky pick. And of what I’ve heard, and how people that have interviewed him have described him — I’m pretty sure if Gruden had a LB camp segment he’d elicit Wilson comparisons. And they appear to be pretty accurate in that assessment.
He’d fit just fine on Carroll’s island of misfit prospects.
Yeah I read that too. But my take was that they would “look” at Avril at SAM, not necessarily move him there. Of course, if Avril played well in that role…?
Wagner definitely has the speed and cover skills to play WILL. For a while in the early days of this pre-draft season, I thought maybe SEA would take a flyer on Jon Bostic at MIKE (what with the Quinn-FLA connection), and move Wags to WILL. Perhaps he still does that, but by the route you outlined above. Wagner clearly has the talent to play either MIKE or WILL. But I’m not sure you try to fix something that wasn’t in the least bit broken. Not to mention Wagner’s MIKE IQ developed so much over the course of his rookie season, and he probably hasn’t even hit the steep part of the learning curve in that regard.
Davis Hsu wrote last night on twitter about how with Avril, Wright and Winfield the WLB position could potentially be reduced to a 20 snap a game position and how this could decrease the importance of drafting a Will high in the draft.
Good insights by Davis Hsu. When Winfield takes the field it will often be at the expense of a linebacker, typically the WLB. Then factor how Winfield plays the game a lot like a linebacker would- and it’s not a stretch at all to see the WLB role getting reduced even further in 2013.
I hadn’t even thought of that. If the WLB is reduced by that much I’d be fine with Smith holding down the position and the FO looking at other needs for the draft.
Sure, but we still need depth at LB. A versatile 3 spot player would be very valuable, since we dont really have any starting spots “open”.
Smith is alright, Morgan is a step below that, and Farwell is excellent on special teams but is about to hit the wrong side of 30.
The only way the Hawks draft an OLB early is if they see a player who is very special and talented. They aren’t going to draft a WLB based on “need” in the early rounds, at least that’s how I perceive it.
Based on everything I’ve seen, they will wait until the later rounds to get just what SHawn said we would get: depth. Now, if Khaseem Greene is so good the Seahawks can’t pass on him, I’m fine with that. I really really like Khaseem Greene, but it may not be in our best interest to draft a guy who, at least initially, will be playing a diminished WLB role.
But I think if and when the Seahawks do draft a OLB, it will be a late round one on a player who is especially adept at rushing the passer. That’s why I was so intrigued by the Jayson Dimanche post Kip wrote a couple months back. Here’s a guy that is fast and was a nightmare for quarterbacks at the D-II level. No doubt he could come in and compete for WLB spot as whoever that player is may blitz more under a Dan Quinn-run defense.
Essenitally, the WLB position is going to be a much more specialized role for more specific situations. Therefore, that player won’t need to do as much as Khaseem Greene can do for a defense.
I’m really pulling for Dimanche in a later round. Even if he’s not on the field he can distract the opponent with sideline gymnastics.
at 1:20:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM-lM0fo7co
I think we will wait til round 4 to draft a Will lb. I would even wait til later and draft DiManche in the 6th and Jordan Campbell right behind him. A late round double dip. They both will compete for a 53 somewhere IMO.
Nice write-up Rob. I listened to entire press conference hoping for a Pete-style clue (as in, “we want to draft a fast DE”), but John is a little more careful, except that he did basically let slip that the Matt Flynn savings are going to re-sign a player (probably Chancellor), but that is hardly a surprise. To win championships, you need to be both lucky and good. How many games have the Patriots won because they lucked into Tom Brady…yes, luck; although they were good enough to pick him in R6, you don’t wait until R6 to pick a franchise QB (any more than you wait until R3 to pick a guy you honestly believe is your franchise QB, you might be smarter than everyone else in projecting his abilities, but if you had projected him as the franchise QB, you do not wait until R3 and take the risk). And yes, the Colts were smart enough to pick Peyton Manning, but lucky enough that they had the #1 pick when a future hall-of-famer was there for the taking. Pete & John have been really, really good, but they have been really, really lucky as well, and we are benefitting from the resulting wins.
Rob. This might have gotten lost on the other board so I thought I’d mention it as it pertains to a player you like.
“CBS Sports’ Jason La Canfora reports the Jets are still considering a move for restricted free agent Chris Ivory.
Ivory visited the Jets last weekend, but not much has materialized since then. The deadline for teams to sign restricted free agents to offer sheets is Friday, but the Jets could still acquire Ivory via trade if he signs his tender or agrees to a new deal. The Saints are said to want no less than a fourth-rounder in return.”
I’d do that trade for the Hawks. How bout you?
Doesn’t make much sense to me. You aren’t really gaining anything.
I’d do it, unless I thought there was a guy in the draft I really liked. Big fan of Ivory.
There is no way I’m parting with a 4th round pick. Maybe a late 6th.
My feelings after listening to JS is that they make there big board the following 3 ways (parentheses are positions it applies too):
1. Need (DT, WLB, 3rd RB & TE, OT depth, 5th receiver)
2. Improvement (DT, WLB, RT, OG, TE)
3. Long term plan (based on free agents in 2014..slot CB, SS, RT, WR)
I question if 3rd running back can ever be considered a need, are we not talking about a back up to a back up ?
I think an argument can be made, looking at Carroll’s time at USC, that they’ll stock pile running backs eventually. Lynch has become such a focal point, they perhaps went away from that. But if they want to keep Lynch effective, they have to manage his snaps going forward. So it wouldn’t surprise me if they return to the possible idea of stockpiling RB’s.
I guess you could make that argument, another way of looking at it is that he coached USC and had access to the best available athletes every year and a lot of those athlete play Running Back so why not stock pile them. I just don’t see drafting a third running back as important unless they can do something amazing or they think that person is a huge upgrade on Turbin. Denard Robinson definitely brings a skill to the table that turbin and Lynch don’t so I could see that, or Lattimore who if he can regain his health would be a steal that make some sense as well, other wise why not just cycle through late round picks and FA’s looking for the next no name Zone blocking running back… that’s just my opinion though so I definitely respect the opposite view.
I believe Carroll values the RB position more than other head coaches. I think he’s willing to spend higher picks to maintain a high level of production at the position. I don’t think we’ll see the team view the RB as a fungible position while Carroll is here like Green Bay.
I didn’t mean like greenbay more like mike shannahan isn’t the point of the zone blocking scheme that you can make average linemen and RBs better
Pete may not view it that way. He may want to make above average lineman and RBs better. Pete wants to maintain a run game at all costs. He took two plus years focusing heavily on upgrading the run game. Pete likes to run the ball as much as any coach in the league. It seems to me that teams that keep spending low picks on RBs aren’t able to maintain their run game at a consistently high level. Pete may want to avoid taking the chance investing more draft capital than other teams might.
A.Simmons I’m in total agreement with ya. RB is a violent position to play everyone on the other side of the ball is trying to hit you. If Lynch goes down I think Turbin would do alright replacing Lynch but the YPC would drop. The way New York did it worked out for them, Barber retired, Jacob got hurt, and Bradshaw stepped up. This is best example I have for having 3 running backs. Its also all about competition.
I think we want 3 backs who can all carry the load. 3 starting quality backs. 3 Beast Modes. Now there is only 1 Marshawn Lynch, I know. Pete knows exactly what to look for in a RB. It allows him to find his type of guy. I expect to see backs sorta cycle through every few years. We will need too, to keep the cap down. The guy we end up with will be the type of player who can carry the load as well. Harvin will get Washington’s carries.
I agree it’s not a huge need, but it’s a chance to upgrade with a talent that’s not on this team; a pure, speed back (I don’t count Harvin as a RB).
Matt,
I see were your going and I agree a speed back would be an area that could be improved, I mistakenly though you were after another all around running back like Lynch or Turbin… I could definitely get behind this idea of a speedster home run threat back.
Like you mentioned above to Rob, I think an all-around RB in the later rounds would make more sense than drafting one in the early rounds.
For example, using my 3 criterias for setting their big board, where an an all-around RB be placed on their board in the 3rd round:
1. Need?…Nope. At least not a huge need.
2. Improvement?…Would a 3rd round all-around RB improve much (if any) over Lynch or Turbin? I’d say not likely. Turbin fall to the 4th in a deeper class than this year.
3. Long-term…With Lynch still fairly young, Turbin a 2nd year player, and the fact a rookie rb can make an impact more than most positions, I see no need to think long-term at the position.
So in essence, I can’t see an all-around RB being placed that high on the Seahawks draft board UNLESS Pete’s coaching philosophy places the position much, much higher need than us fans think (which I don’t think he does).
Rob, Cleveland was rumored to have interest in moving Sheard due to a bad scheme fit (according to Rotoworld a few weeks ago). I know pass rusher was already addressed up and down in free agency, but could you see Seattle trading their 2nd round pick on draft day for Sheard? He may be better then any player they could draft at that spot.
Also, if you were in the FO, would you take Patton or Micheal in round 2?
I would’ve said yes on Sheard before they signed Bennett and Avril. Now, I think they’d struggle to justify it. It’s a start now signing and when you have Avril, Clemons and Irvin on the roster all expecting to play… it’s hard to justify. But I really like Sheard.
If I can only choose between Patton or Michael I’ll take Patton and plan for the future at WR. But I really, really like Michael’s running style.
I’m all in on the Michael’s pick. I thought Turbin would be fine in a backup style for Lynch but I think they always wanted to replace Justin Forseyth speed and this guy would do that and more.
Michael or Ball in the 3rd if they are there would excite me. Total agreement on the committee approach at RB. Lynch wont last three more years if he keeps getting 300 carries a year. Turbin was brought in to take some of that load off, but I dont see him as a MAJOR contributor. Maybe he breaks out this year, who knows. But I would place Michael or Ball ahead of him on the depth chart, at least initially.
They let Justin Forseyth go and I don’t think he was the speed guy that could take that hit and then pop, and then its a race to endzone. Justin couldn’t take the hit with out it affecting his balance. Christian Michaels is that guy and he’ll do more than Justin. I do have a slot to fill here to replace Leon Washington spot. Percy Harvins is a WR not a backup RB besides he’s has Kick/punt returns duty.
Pretty sure you mean Justin Forsett. And I agree, he didnt have the power we like to see out of our backs. He had good speed and made some plays, thats why he got picked up by the Texans, another zone blocking team. But he wasnt good enough for this team. Neither will some UDFA likely be. We need to spend a pick on this spot, not just for the future or for insurance either.
As I understand, the Leon spot you mean to replace then is RB3. Not his KR/PR duties, since Harvin will likely get those, but his backup RB duties. He got something like 23 rushes last year, but I assume they were keeping him out because he was so vital to the return game. Next years RB3 will likely see more action than that.
Even Turbin only had 80 carries on the year. I could see that role increased as well. Our RB2 could very well see over 100 rushes next year. I really like Michael and Ball though, enough to where I would put them ahead of Turbin on the depth chart.
All of this of course to keep Lynch and his back spasms as fresh as possible throughout the game and the season as a whole. We have to start preparing for a deep playoff run. Lynch’s 315 carries could drop to under 300 easily, maybe even under 250, if that stratagem was used.
It will also confuse defenses more if we are more willing to rush even when our backup comes in and spells the Beast for a series.
We will still run the ball over 400 times during the year. But if we spread them out a little more evenly among 3 high quality backs (Lynch, Turbin, Michael/Ball) i think all 3 will be more effective. I would love to see Lynch get about 250, Michael/Ball get about 100, and Turbin get about 80 again. Harvin could factor here as well if they decide to use him in the run game. He had 22 attempts last year in a short season, so he could easily see 30 carries as well. If I am mathing correctly, that comes out to appx 460 rushes on the year. Thats a lot of running, but if we actually get ahead in games this year like we were at the end of the season, we will be running it a LOT.
Harvin will get Washington’s carries bro. It’s like a few carries a game, not worth drafting a guy for. Turbin and the new freak of nature we bring in, will split carries as Marshawn will get the rock 15-20 times a game. At least thats what I foresee. in all I think we will run the ball 35- 40 times a game. With Turbin and a rookie, whoever we choose, splitting 10-15 carries a game and Harvin getting 2-4 carries a game.
“could you see Seattle trading their 2nd round pick on draft day for Sheard? He may be better then any player they could draft at that spot.”
This being the key. I like his age. And his production. I like him very much as a prospect.
But I don’t see him being as big of an upgrade to this team over Bennett or Avril, compared to what that #56 player will be to the existing starter on this team.
The upgrade is very small. And Sheard was drafted along with Carpenter (but in the 2nd round). So he’s on year 3 of a 4 year deal. We would have added another 4-6 million dollar extension to enact this offseason. Which could be done by cutting Clemons entirely.
But that means now trading your second pick in 2013 and ‘trading’ Clemons in 2014 for Sheard. That is a lot compared to just staying at 56 and getting an immediate impact upgrade.
I’d say no way.
“@AdamSchefter: A trashed hotel room at Indy scouting combine that Yahoo reported on belonged to Clemson WR DeAndre Hopkins and Rutgers WR Mark Harrison.”
I guess this just adds to the questions at receiver in the early rounds.
“@RapSheet: Hadley Engelhard, agent for Hopkins, tells me: “DeAndre had as much to do with it as you did.” Said Hopkins checked out 6 hours before any1″
Agent working damage control. It’s hard to trust any reports this time of year either way (I mean, why all of the sudden does this come out? Team in the early 2nd wanting Hopkins to fall?)
Apparently there was feces and urine all over the floor. Yikes.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2013/story/_/id/9187853/deandre-hopkins-mark-harrison-trashed-hotel-rooms-combine-sources-say
Yuck.
We can most likely cross those dudes off the list. There is plenty of WR talent that does not require that level of stupdity. UDFA, maybe.
Numerous NFL sources, including Hopkins himself, are saying that he’d checked out of the hotel hours before whatever happened happened.
Definitely a maturity problem for guys traveling for job interviews but without a DNA match, impossible to know if it was the guys of record for those rooms or other prospects congregating there.
Adam Schefter also tweeted later that they don’t believe that WR Mark Harrison was involved, as for DeAndre Hopkins nothing was mentioned about him.
Must have been those hotel gnomes.
I really excited for James Carpenter. I’m trying to imagine a power sweep to the left with Okung, Carpenter, and Sweezy is pulling . He really going to be a monster on that leftside.
I’ll believe it when I see it. Carpenter has been a non-entity since drafted. Showed up terribly out of shape, and has been hurt ever since except for a couple of plays where some people say sometimes he looked ok. Right now, he’s just a big fat guy who might be strong but hasn’t proven anything to me in terms of an NFL player.
Agree, Carp has been a huge disappointing bust so far. Wait and see for me. I could see the writing on the wall with him showing up fat and out of shape.. lack of drive. I think he either shows up this year, or he is gone.
We could say the same for Okung who was injured 2 years in a row like Carpenter problem was Carpentar should up as a rookie starting preseason and no camp and then around the 9th game was injured. He’s been here a while and this could be that stay healthy and play LG. I never thought they should of moved him from guard to tackle anyways it was by far his best position in college to begin with, my opinion.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I remember he played pretty well early last season. It wasn’t until he returned to IR that people started calling him a bust again.
If healthy, Carp is a big man and a solid player. But it seems that’s a big if. I would be stoked if he could be our LG for a full season. I hope he comes back bigger and badder than ever this year.
A true bust would have played up to full potential only to reveal that he was never very good to being with. Carpenter has shown glimpses of dominance between injuries.
People cited injury worries about Okung prior to last year and Carpenter stayed in town to weight train to avoid being out of shape…just sayin.
I totally agree. There is no question that Carpenter has the most to gain over every other individual Seahawk this year in playing up to potential because he could make the difference between a good offense and a truly dominant offense. This is a huge year not only for him but in making an offense that could outperform Seahawks ’05.
KJ could be a 1st time pro bowler, Turbin could surprise for 1k, Harvin could go MVP, but Carpenter could not be an All Pro and not even go to the Pro Bowl and still have the biggest impact on this team. He just needs to stay healthy and steam roll for yardage. By doing so he could enable the rest of the offensive stars to go nuts.
I HAVE TO SAY I WAS FEELING THE SAME WAY WITH Okung. His rookie season it was a high ankle sprain then the 1st game of the next season torn pectoral muscle and I was thinking man, I’m glad we didn’t give up on him cause now he’s a pro bowl left tackle. Give Carp a chance I think you’ll be surprised because I don’t believe they’d keep him around if they didn’t think he improved this team.
Okung was not lost in game 1. It was week 14 or 15.
Against the Iggles. I was there. Watched a brotha get judo tossed by Trent Cole
Good comments Belgaron. Carpenter showing up could be a huge impact and I’ve been thinking this year Turbin could do some real damage and make his name.
And if Carpenter spends another year on injured reserve, he might be replaced next year. He has to have a good year and prove that he can stay healthy.
Alaska Hawk I think your right on track this is a make or break year for Carp he needs to stay healthy or he will be replaced, I do think that if he is healthy he will be productive though. He will be playing inbetween two probowlers so that will help and he is huge and a good run blocker so I think health is the big key for him.
Interesting thought from the comment above on the 4th round pick for Ivory? Doubt it would happen, but I think it would be a great move. Then we wouldn’t need Michael and could look at BPA at #56
I’m not sure we will draft BPA until later rounds, if ever. I feel the FO has bigger plans than to just wait, for what is perceived to be the best guy. I think they go in with a board that determines what options they have, at a pick. Such as @ #56, where is the value? Does it make the most sense to trade back, trade out of this years draft in the second round, or select one of a players on their short list? I think they have pre-determined goals, not needs. Maybe it’s to acquire an extra 3rd round pick this year. Maybe, trade out of this draft for a pick next year. Maybe it’s to target the next #1 TE, starting OL, or LB. With players, and trade values associated, to each unique situation available. Let’s say there’s a trade available to move into the 3rd round, and pick up a extra 6th round pick with JAX, there is also a TE, 2 OL, and 2 OLB’s prospects they consider draft worthy at 56. Each of these players are rated on a scale which assigns each player a value. They now would have associated a value to the draft positions, and players based on a unique chart of their own. This determines what the true value of the 56th pick is worth. Once they figure out which option has the most value, they make a decision. In this scenario, the trade from 56 to 64 and pick up #169 in the process, would be worth trading for. Picks allow us flexibility to build value for the future as well. This is why it is more likely to trade back, rather than up most the time. Just my opinion. Hope it’s not too confusing.
For what it’s worth: since McCoy took over as HC of the Chargers, rumor has it that this could be Phillip Rivers last year should he have another season like last. If the tackles aren’t there in the 1st Rd at #11, don’t look past them as a probable landing spot for Smith. McCoy did have Tebow for a year and made it work with him, and Geno’s a far better thrower and runner. Smith as their 1st and maybe Baily in their 3rd round pick isn’t out of realm. Surprising they let all their defensive starters leave like they have this offseason.
I seriously hope they can package some of their late round picks and move into 4-5th rounds again as I see some serious value in those two rounds. 10 draftees are not making this team, maybe 7 at most.
Even if ten draftees don’t make the team, the more times you come up to bat the more likely you are to hit a home run.
Right.
But the home run analogy fails, since returns on home runs are instantaneous where returns on draft picks are very much not. You only have so many spots for developmental guys.
Schedule is out and available here: http://www.nfl.com/schedules/2013/REG/SEAHAWKS
5 early start east coast games including 1 to start the year and two in a row, only one in the back half of the season… 4 prime time games and possibly two that could get flexed prime time in the 2nd half vs the giants and the niners
Revenge November 10th in Atlanta.
That week two prime time game against the Niners is going to be intense
And the home opener to boot.
I will be there for the opener. Carolina in September is hot.
Not happy about that schedule. Carolina is not a team I want to face early next season- they have a lot of momentum going from last season- and that game would be in the summer heat as well.
They also stuck us with yet another road game on a Thursday night. At least this time it’s against Arizona.
On the positive side, Seattle has 11 days to rest/prepare for their road game against the Rams. And four primetime games? Have the Seahawks ever had more than 4 before?
We are definitely starting to see some recognition.
I don’t like playing the Sunday Dec. 8 road game at the 49ers following a Monday (12/2) night game. I’d like to have as much time as possible to prepare for the key divisional game vs. SF. The 49ers play at home on 12/1 so they will have a whole week to prepare. I would think that someone at the NFL “scheduling headquarters” would have noticed this and would have attempted to level the playing field for this importatnt game.
I am more worried about the Colts on the road in the morning, right after we play the Texans, on the road in the morning. Im hoping we arent tired from that Texans offense and let Luck reek havoc on us. I would still bet on us to win, but that is the one game that “worries” me, if any.
Rob.
Considering the list of player visits, how many of these do you think we will target for draft? How many are simply likely to be invited to participate undrafted?
This is the list as I know it:
Seahawks 2013 visits (unofficial)
Matt Scott, QB, Arizona
Jeremy Wright, RB, Louisville
Russell Shepard, WR, LSU
Martel Moore, WR, Northern Illinois
Aaron Mellette, WR, Elon
Tyrone Goard, WR, Eastern Kentucky
Rufus Johnson, DE, Tarleton State
Stefan Charles, DT, Regina
Duke Williams, S, Nevada
Kevin McDermott, LS, UCLA
Luke Batton, LB, Kent State
Datone Jones, DL, UCLA
Tyrann Mathieu, DB, LSU
Brendan Melanophy, DB, Fordham
Latavius Murray, RB, Central Florida
Ryan Otten, TE, San Jose State
Quinton Patton, WR, Louisiana Tech
David Quessenberry, OL, San Jose State
Sheldon Richardson, DL, Missouri
Eric Rogers, WR, Cal Lutheran
Duke Williams, DB, Nevada
Michael Williams, TE, Alabama
Tyler Wilson, QB, Arkansas
Dontra Peters, CB, New Hampshire
Craig Wilkins, LB, Old Dominion
Perez Ashford, WR, Northern Illinois
Kyle Juszczyk, FB, Harvard
Mike Catapano, DE, Princeton
Ryan Jensen, OL, Colorado State
How about Christine Michaels
That’s right. How could I forget that one?
More:
BJ Daniels, QB, South Florida
Jeremy Harris, CB, New Mexico State
Quinn Sharp, K/P, Oklahoma State
Brian Watkins, CB, Oregon State
Michael Brooks, DT, East Carolina
Ryan Robertson, QB, Central Washington
Justin Veltung, WR, Idaho
Zac Dysert, QB, Miami-Ohio
Anthony Watkins, SS, Oregon State
Greg Herd, WR, Eastern Washington
Semsi Tokolahi, DT, Washington
Justin Glenn, FS, Washington
Isaac Remington, DT, Oregon
Cooper Taylor, SS, Richmond
Nice work! The only name I saw missing from these posts combined is Brice Butler, WR, San Diego St. It’s hard to know what constitutes a “visit” though. Sometimes a handshake at the combine can get classified as a “visit.”
Knowing the Seahawks I’m guessing at least 6 or 7 of these names will be under contract at some point.
Thanks to Miles and Chris for completing this list for me.
If say a number of these guys do end up on contract going into training camp, which do you think most likely?
If I had to say we would get five UDFAs, off hand, I would predict WR Tyrone Goard, QB BJ Daniels, K Quinn Sharp, WR Brice Butler and DT Stefan Charles (not in order of likelihood).
As far as five visitors I think we’re most likely to draft, I am guessing the Hawks really like Christine Michael. Drafting him wouldn’t be continuous with the strategy of improving on positions as much as possible, but I think he has the most “upside” for us of anyone who will be available at 56. Kyle Juszczyk, for the reasons everyone else has been saying recently. Cooper Taylor because I think the Hawks are looking for Chancellor insurance (besides a potential starting safety on the roster could sway contract talks, couldn’t it?), Aaron Mellette because he’s a big tall receiver who produced in college. And finally Zac Dysert, because I don’t know who else to put.
Which is fitting, because none of us really know what’s going to happen. ONLY SIX DAYS UNTIL WE GET TO FIND OUT!!!!!!!!! :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Very excite.
Awesome job putting that list up. Just as a fun exercise if you had to pick one player who you simply must leave this draft with, who would it be? My guy would be John Simon! What about the rest of you?
Dude it’s been a long time coming on answering that question, for me. But if I had to pick one guy I do not want to go elsewhere it’s Christine Michael. His tape had wow-factor; amazing burst and change-of-direction. A guy that can become more and more involved in the offense as Lynch’s contract winds down. I feel like he’s one of the most special players in this draft. Perhaps the thing that propels me most to want to draft this guy early, is that I have a gut feeling if we don’t draft him Round 2, the 49ers will take him at the end of the round. I could envision a scenario where the 49ers trade up ahead of us to take him. That would be a real shame from my view.
Another guy who will make me sad if he comes off the board somewhere else: Terrance Williams, WR, Baylor. This guy hasn’t had a lot of buzz but I love his tape. Pretty quick, 6’2″, long arms; smart route-runner. Just reminds me more of Sidney Rice than any other receiver in this draft. I think we could get him in the third round.
But one guy I don’t want to miss out on is Corey Lemonier. I just think this guy is one of those players who has his best football ahead of him; he is very athletic, has long arms, is well-spoken. If he had produced better at Auburn he would be a first-round prospect, in my opinion. He’s also very good against the run, one of those players who defends the run while getting to the quarterback. He’s good at moving the tackle around too. I would love to get this guy. Round 2 may be our only chance to get him though. But I’d be ecstatic if he somehow fell to us in Round 3.
I love Lemonier’s game too, but won’t be surprised to see him go in the 1st round. I think a team like Denver may go for him.
I’m going to point the following out with the caveat that no one knows what NFL big boards look like.
CBSsports.com doesn’t have Lemonier being drafted in its two-round mocks between Rob Rang, Dane Brugler, Pat Kirwan and Pete Prisco. They have DEs the likes of Margus Hunt, Cornelius Carradine, Bjoern Werner, Damontre Moore, Datone Jones, Sam Montgomery, and Alex Okafor being drafted in those rounds. Personally I think Lemonier is more NFL ready than all those guys except for Datone Jones and Bjoern Werner, but obviously I don’t know if NFL teams feel the same way as I do.
Walter Football’s mock draft doesn’t have Lemonier leaving the board until the third-round, pick 86 (one slot before our pick), to the Colts.
If these sites are even relatively correct, the Hawks could even trade down into Round 3 from 56 and still nab Lemonier. That would be awesome.
Here are the links to these very updated mocks.
Walter Football: http://walterfootball.com/draft2013.php
CBSsports: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft/round/1
I suspect a lot of that list will be priority FA’s. Ones to target in the draft are fairly obvious… Juszczyk, Quessenberry, Patton, Otten, Williams, Scott.
That Harvard kid blew my mind with his tape. If we are ever going to target a MIkeROb replacement, it should be with this kid. Some of the things MIkeROb brings to the table that we value so much… Intelligence, Vision, Hands, Confidence. KYle has all of those, and would be on a rookie contract, not costing us almost 3 mil. I dont think he replaces him right away, but if he was drafted, MIkeROb would be a cap casualty next year. (If he is under contract next year, which Im not sure.)
Love him too. But also love zach boran as an m rob replacement. Great lead blocker who switched to lb halfway thru his senior year to help out cause of injuries and apperently just rocked the position!! This guy is a “baller”!!! Voted ohio states outstanding offensive back with just a few actual carries. He has special team demon written all over him. Could provide depth at fb and lb. Love to see him get a camp invite!
Agree about Boren being a baller but he is by no means a linebacker. He tried hard but was ineffective at Ohio State. That said, special teams ace and backup fullback is plenty of value. (I’ve really started to have fond memories of Fredd Young; I’m hoping the team is scoping out developmental wlb candidates who can reprise Fredd’s brilliance. I don’t think Boren’s that guy but with the depth of the draft this year, I am hoping that some candidates get pushed down the board low enough that JSPC finds value there.)
Do the Seahawks have room to carry a backup fullback on the roster? I think in that case, he would have to double as a 3rd-string runningback as well. Unless Juscyzyk is that good that he warrants taking up an extra roster spot, in which case we would have to cut elsewhere.
Juszczyk would be backup FB and possibly 3rd/4th TE. He played TE, not FB for Harvard.
Mike Rob has almost no run duties, but he is the 3rd string/emergency QB. (12 rushing attempts last year, 4 of them more memorable than others. If you know which 4 I speak of we are now friends.)
I think his primary position in the first year would be 2nd or 3rd string TE. Hard to put a Joker TE and an inline blocking TE like McCoy in the same category because they do different things. Jucyzk has WR receiving skills so I’m guessing they would line him up all over the field. He and Robinson could definately be on the field at the same time. If Robinson’s contract becomes a problem then I think he would be a very good lead blocking FB as well. He looked like a natural fit there at the Senior Bowl. I love guys that can play multiple positions.
I would think the Seahawks would find it more difficult to sign UDFAs this year, given how solid the roster is. With ten draft picks, half of whom won’t make the 53 man roster, it is difficult to see how a UDFA or his agent will think that he has much of a chance here….although Pete does have the good rep for letting the best man win.
I think we will bring in 90 guys to camp and whittle it down to the best 53 for us.
A spot on our practice squad, meaning a shot at joining the team midseason as an injury replacement or whathaveyou, is better in some eyes than a 3rd string spot on the Jaguars or Raiders for instance. Free agents love us now, including the undraftables.
Not from a financial perspective.
THats why I said “some” eyes. I understand everyone wants to be paid, but a lot of these guys look at many other things than their paycheck when deciding where to go to work. True in business, true in football. As an analogy, we have better benefits, better co-workers, better bosses, and better facilities. A lot of people, although admittedly not everyone, will take a marginal paycut to come here. THat was my only point.
As a direct example, see the Antoine WInfield contract details.
There’s a BIG difference between the NFL practice squad salary of $5,700/week or $97K/yr and $390K, the League minimum rookie salary. That’s a difference of nearly $300K. I don’t know how much money you make, but $300K is hardly a “marginal paycut”
I realize players want to be on a winning team, especially one that has a legit shot at the SB. But obviously not every player in the NFL can do that. In any given year, approximately 18 teams will have losing records, each with 53 men on the roster. On the other hand, EVERY player has bills to pay. That’s just economic reality.
Also, Winfield is a poor example to use because (1) his total 2013 pay could be as much as $3M, of which $1M is guaranteed (that’s hardly peanuts), and considering the high level he played at last season, he has every reason to believe that he’ll get paid the full $3M, and (2) the deal he turned down from MIN was for the same money – $3M, the difference being all of it was guaranteed.
I like and share your enthusiasm for the Seahawks, but keep it real.
I was also interested in Charles Brown. I can’t complain how it turned out for the Hawks.
I’m happy Okung fell to us. He was my favorite out of the three possibles.
I had Williams slightly ahead of Okung… Was a 1a 1b kinda thing. Didn’t care for Charles. Wasn’t strong enough for my liking in the first round. Had Berry #1 and Thomas right behind him. Was really happy with Either combo of those 4 guys though.
I liked Okung’s background. A guy that went through what Okung had gone through in his life is the kind of guy that won’t rattle easily no matter what obstacles he faces. That’s why I’m not surprised he was able to overcome the initial adversity he faced with the injuries. He had lived through worse than sprained ankles and torn pecs. He kept his noise the grindstone and got back to playing a high level. If I were a GM, I would value that type of trait highly in my picks. The will to succeed is what seperates the wheat from the chaff. Okung’s will is as strong as any I’ve read about.
Definitely preferred Okung over Williams. TRent had some character issues coming out although it seems he has gotten them under control. RUssell just looked like the more complete LT to me then, and still does.
I had it VERY wrong on the safeties though. I had Berry and Mays over Thomas. I was surprised when we picked Thomas, although Im pretty darn happy about it now.
Russell was, and still is the more complete of the two. Williams was just slightly more athletic, and displayed a mean streak I like. He doesn’t have Cable either. Happy with the current results though.
I hope the Hawks give David Bass a good look, he is one of my favorite players in this draft. Love his game tape.
Probably not a reality now after Harvin trade but I sure liked Swopes a lot. So smooth and dynamic. Real curious where he’ll go and what he’ll do once he gets there.
When you mentioned Swope I thought about other players that I watched and thought name 5 players, that Seattle won’t get in the draft but you will watch next year.
Ryan Swope
Travis Kelce
John Simon
Khaseem Green
Oday Aboushi
this doesn’t mean I changing my draft we getting to close now.
Anyone know if RW and his receivers have gotten together for any off-season work? I remember RW talking to Harvin about Harvin joining some receivers who were going to California to play throw and catch with RW, but I never heard if it happened.
I ask just because I’m curious to see which of our receivers match RW’s dedication to improving their games. I know that Tate was staying late after practices last year. I would think that it would be a big benefit to Harvin to develop his relationship to RW as quickly as possible.
https://twitter.com/sidneyrice/status/322403445208383488/photo/1
Possibly? I think that’s Percy Harven on the far left, but I’m not 100% sure.
That could also be Doug Baldwin. Playing the “Who am I?” with the back of their heads is hard.
I know which one is RUssell though! I see 11 guys other than him though, and no SIdney! Lets list.
Im pretty sure I recognize CHarly Martins dome.
Tate is the one holding the maple bar behind Wilson.
He is talking to either Baldwin or Harvin.
Far left is the other Harvin / Baldwin.
I dont see Miller anywhere unless he cut off all his hair. THen its him up front.
ANthony McCoy is in the front drinking.
Kearse is in the far back, closest to the camera. Lazy ass.
Really unsure of the rest. But I am super curious who is on the penultimate left wearing the cap.
Sidney was the one taking the picture, it was on his twitter account.
Also, I think the one in the middle talking to Tate is Phil Bates.
Curious, talking about Receiving, I’m wondering what people think of FA Darren Fells as a 6’8″ 280lb Joker TE?
It’s hard to say at this point. I’ve said it before that he is an intriguing prospect with elite athleticism in many ways. That’s why the Seahawks signed him; but as high as his perceived ceiling is, he also has a really low floor. For all we know he has just as good a chance of getting cut in July as making any sort of impression on this coaching staff.
They gave him a 3 year contract, he’s not going anywhere. This guy being a pro basket ball player, can run and catch the ball. With RW I think this guy in slot will catch any pass thrown for 3rd and 8yds to go. I don’t need him to block he’s a different threat altogether but who knows playing a power forward he could definitely get in the way of someone.
While I agree with you that the kid has some upside, I don’t think the 3-year contract is very indicative of how the Seahawks view him (it’s only a little bit indicative).
Knowing he could turn into a great player if he learns the ropes, Pete and John took a measure to keep him on the roster in case he is worth a long-term investment. But the contract is in no way binding. At this point none of the money on that contract is guaranteed, it’s for minimum dollars, and we can cut the kid at any time without consequence.
If Pete and John get the feeling this guy will never do anything in the NFL over the next couple of months, I think he’ll be gone. He’s not a valued commodity in the NFL, at this point. And to my knowledge, there weren’t any teams enlisting for Fells’ services other than the Seahawks. This is a project the Seahawks were looking to take on and the Seahawks alone, in my view.
Agree with Miles here. No risk contract. No other suitors we know of. Screams practice squad project to me, even if he doesnt impress enough to get on the field this year.
I understand all of the possibilities and that he can be cut. He did play in high schools he was a pro athlete that can run the length of a court for periods of time and I’m thinking wherever RW throws it within a basket ball court radius. He really going the better chance on a jump ball.
OK, my first shot at a mock;
The Seahawks have a definitive scouting acumen. They look for guys that love football and have special athletic qualities that set them apart from their peers in at least one area. They want guys that can “tilt the field” and are not locked into a cookie-cutter prototype that fits to each position. They have found success actually molding their schemes to a collection of “field tilters.” That being said, I believe they will pull from this group of athletes that typify that “Seahawky” player described above;
2nd LB Khaseem Greene or Jamie Collins; both are playmakers and one should be available—drafting Collins could shift Wright to WLB. Both are very good at pressuring the QB. Greene is the turnover machine that can cover with instincts and Collins better at the line of scrimmage POA. I could also see the Hawks drafting Bostic/Florida in the 4th round as a MLB and potentially moving Wagner to WLB. Bostic has the Quinn connection, and coaches love the comfort of having their favorite MLB in the building. Bostic is slower, but he is a leader, a big-time downhill run fitter, and has excellent coverage instincts.
3rd RB Christine Micheal/Tex A&M; best RB in draft should slip to 3rd due to character flags. Immediate workhorse-type to backup Beastmode—and allow Turbin to focus on being the 3rd down back. Obviously, if he pans out, he replaces Beastmode salary and production down the road. Total luxury pick.
4th FB/TE Kyle Juszczyk/Harvard; replaces MikeRob in year 2, move around guy as FB, 3rd TE creates mismatches. Versatility frees up roster space and he looks like a core special teams-type as well. This is the type of pick that could make the Hawks’ offense even more dynamic than it already is, as it will blend personnel groupings even more.
5th SS TJ McDonald/USC; He may very well be gone by the 5th round, but his stock has been slipping while other safeties have been rising. Obviously, Carroll will be familiar with his abilities and background, and I would not be surprised if the Hawks were looking to let Kam walk next year—they can’t pay ‘em all top dollar. McDonald is big (6-3/220) and has better hips than scouts give him credit for. He can also be a special teams ace. I actually value this guy so much I wouldn’t be disappointed if they take him anywhere from round three-on.
5th WR Marquise Goodwin/Texas; fast, fast, fast—he doesn’t get enough credit for being a pretty good football player. Put him in Tate’s spot as possible 2014 replacement and as the backup KR for Harvin. He has the speed to top off the defense (think poor man’s Mike Wallace).
6th DT Stefan Charles/Regina; project from Canada—but unreal measurables. I can’t see him slipping too much farther down with teams like SF and Baltimore having multiple late picks and no major needs. Unlike most folks suggest, I believe Seattle really only needs too add one DT for the D-Line (DE Avril, Irvin, Bryant, Scruggs, *Clemons and DT Mebane, Bennett, McDaniel, McDonald) and probably thinks Howard is that guy. I had heard Howard came to Seattle with a very poor work ethic and was surprised Quinn vouched for him in the pre-draft process. Worst case, Charles will make for a great project to stash on the practice squad, with the upside of being a field tilting 3-tech down the road.
7th OT Garrett Gilkey/Chadron St; 6-6/318 and nasty—needs some Cable refinement. Short arms so he may be an OG. Best case scenarios–he replaces Breno in 2014 or could be the McQuistan-type jack of all trades 6th lineman in a year.
7th LB Jayson DiManche/S Illinois; Measurables are Seahawky (6-1/231/4.5/38”/1.52 10yd dash). With the prospect of re-signing last year’s kicker on the horizon, I still see big-time needs on coverage teams. This guy has great burst and could be an animal down the road. Fits the Hawk profile; he already has his degree and was a team captain as a senior—picking up 8 sacks as a 3-4 OLB.
7th QB 7th QB BJ Daniels/S Florida; Quinn is the #2–the ‘Hawks are looking for competition at practice squad QB w/Portis and it will need to be a zone/read guy to simulate Carolina, SF offenses. The Hawks have spent a lot of time with this kid. Picking up Denard Robinson earlier in the draft would be a great fit scheme-wise to be the Harvin understudy while returning punts and he fits the practice zone/read QB model as well.
Nice concepts at every pick. I could see this happening. All these guys except Gilkey I have on a list of solid options for Seattle.
Nice mock Train
Any mock not including a DT in the first two picks doesn’t seem right to me. I can’t see Pete, a coach focused on stopping the run, going into the season without upgrading the DT position after getting gouged in the run game during the latter half of the season. The DT we signed from Miami is decent depth and competition, but we need a replacement for Alan Branch. They have to find one or we’re going to be one serious defensive line injury away from major problems on defense.
I agree with your concern completely. My gut tells me they have something up their sleeve (draft day trade; low pick for a Branch/McDaniel type similar to the Vickerson deal a few years ago) or they will be making a paradigm shift using more over fronts–a little more traditional NFL 4-3 w/additions of Bennett and Avril. I like this DT class a lot, but there are not a lot of under front 3-techs available and especially not early. The Hawks like 6-5+, 300+, long arms, and 5.10 or better and this draft is short on that prototype. Nich Williams (Samford), Q Dial (Bama), Will Gholston (MSU) all fit the bill, but it is tough hanging a 2nd/3rd round grade on them as they all have weaknesses/lack of production. I would have a hard time counting on them to be every day guys right out of the gate (feel burned by Ej Wilson/Jaye Howard). I like any of them round four or five as those rounds are a little more crap-shootish. The under front 3 is a rare breed and I’m thinking the Hawks are having a hard time finding them. IMO, Clemons is a much better run defender than Avril or Irvin, which with his injury, will put more pressure on the 3-tech and WLB in an under front…thus the thought they shift to some more traditional over looks. Your thoughts Rob or Kip?
Check out Kwame Geathers…He is 6’6″, 340 pounds and looked pretty amazing vs Alabama’s mighty OL, particularly on the play that Eddie Lacy spins free from the pile. As he is racing down field for the next 30 yards, Geathers hangs with him!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1ZrFOxQXz0
Gearhers is a DUDE and I like the chances of the Hawks him…but despite his hustle he only runs 5.4. I think he is a nose (a really good two-gapping type). You never know though…the Hawks could fit the scheme to him as a 3…much like what they did with Red as a DE. Mebane has been an over front 3 before, which would allow them to get a monster nose like Geathers. I’d love to have him on the roster and figure him out from there–good ball player.