I think this was a ‘settling’ first round. I think a lot of teams ‘settled’ — including the Seahawks.
Without the big name quarterbacks or the blue-chip Ja’Marr Chase types available, it felt like a lot of teams simply tried to make the best of the situation they were presented with. I’m not sure anyone was that excited about the first round, looking at the different draft rooms on TV. There was a fair amount of low energy shots with a couple of big exceptions.
For some, such as Jacksonville with the top pick, they opted to try and gamble a little bit by going for someone they clearly think has more upside than Aidan Hutchinson — who is in the ‘will be good, might not be great’ category.
For others it meant acknowledging what’s going on in the receiver market and trying to find cheap talent, creating a massive rush. For two other teams it was about tapping into that unknown and being willing, in Philadelphia’s case, to give a young star $25m a year. And then there was the Minnesota Vikings — ridiculously gifting a division rival arguably the best receiver in the draft and dropping down 20 spots in the process to basically acquire one extra mid-round pick.
From the Seahawks perspective, my guess is they probably had a firm eye on some of the big upside players in this draft. That would include Derek Stingley Jr, Kayvon Thibodeaux and Evan Neal. All three players have been mocked to Seattle so they maybe even got their hopes up. Yet all three came off the board and in that situation, I would guess that initial instinct was to move down.
Yet it was being reported by Tony Pauline right before the draft that the phone lines simply weren’t ringing for Seattle’s pick. Thus, they took a left tackle with their first pick to launch their biggest draft in many years.
I’m not sure it’s what they pined for when they woke up in the morning. Each of these four picks is going to be scrutinised heavily and compared to the player, Russell Wilson, who they dealt. Picks always kind of look better before you use them. I’m not sure Charles Cross is a knock-your-socks-off talent to launch a new era. He is a left tackle though and that at least is something.
I’m not a huge fan of his as regulars will know. His physical profile is underwhelming. He ran a decent 4.95 forty but his explosive testing wasn’t very good (26 inch vertical at the combine) and his agility testing (4.65 short shuttle) was nothing to write home about. He’s not small but he’s not particularly big either. Not for a tackle. I’d like to see him bulk up a bit and add some muscle definition and power in a pro-weight training program (which is very achievable).
I’ll preempt the reaction of ‘testing doesn’t matter, tape does’ by saying I’ll come onto the tape in a moment. Firstly, I would recommend checking out this article. There are always outliers but generally speaking, the better performing O-liners in the league share a physical profile that Cross simply doesn’t have.
On tape I think he’s a challenging assessment at times because of the Mike Leach offense. There’s a lot of him just needing to basically get in the way just long enough for a pass to be thrown. And regardless of down or distance, it’s nearly always a pass. So you see a lot of the same reps and how he handles certain scenarios remains a bit of a mystery — especially in the running game (which, presumably, he’ll now be doing a lot of). For example — I have no idea if you can run behind him on 3rd and 1.
I don’t like his narrow base because he looks at times like he’s crying out to be bull-rushed on every snap. Sam Williams the Ole Miss pass rusher had great success against him. I worry a little bit what he’ll do when bigger, more explosive defensive ends decide they’re just going to run through him. Can he fix that base to provide a greater anchor against those kind of moves?
He does do a good job clamping on at times without ever looking like he’s going to get flagged. His feet move well with his body — it’s just that base needs fixing. I like how he recovers when opponents gain position or win with a better get-off.
There are mixed reviews on his grading. I’m not alone in having some concerns but there are also people who think he’s one of the top prospects in the class. PFF’s Mike Renner ranked him the fifth overall prospect and Dane Brugler had him #7. However, Lance Zierlein graded him at #17 and Daniel Jeremiah had him at #22. So it’s a mixed bag.
As I noted on my podcast earlier — the league source I spoke to believed Ikem Ekwonu deserved to go in the #7-9 range and Charles Cross the #8-12 range. That proved to be virtually what happened.
Personally I preferred Abraham Lucas but he’s a right tackle not a left tackle.
If he proves to be a franchise left tackle it’ll be an ideal starting point for this rebuild. Certainly despite my own personal underwhelming impression of the pick, I’m not going to write him off. I’m intrigued to see what he can do.
I do wonder though if the Seahawks even know what they’re trying to be any more. It’s still Pete Carroll’s team but they continue to select what I’d consider ‘finesse’ players with their top picks. Last year it was Dee Eskridge over players like Creed Humphrey. Now it’s Cross who is from a pass-heavy offense.
These aren’t really the moves you’d expect from a team that wants to be a connected, great defense and run-the-ball side. I also wonder what direction the defense is going in really — and I’m intrigued to see how they improve that side of the ball on Friday and Saturday given the need for an injection of major talent.
The savings they presumably made on Duane Brown with this pick probably means they’ll invest in a collection of lower level free agents now — such as Mario Addison who had a recent visit. That’s not going to move the needle much but they don’t have the money to splash on a Jadeveon Clowney type.
Of the players remaining available — I’ll go into more detail on Friday. However, I would have no issues doubling down on the O-line by taking Abraham Lucas and/or Cam Jurgens. Pass rushers remain available — such as Boye Mafe and Sam Williams. There’s a healthy crop of linebackers and cornerbacks. I really like Travis Jones while Logan Hall is still out there. All of the running backs remain available too.
I can mention plenty of others. Here’s an updated horizontal board with the drafted players removed (click on the image to enlarge):
I might look to make one pick then trade down with the other if possible.
One final note though — I really hope they do avoid this quarterback class. The NFL confirmed how bad it was today, by keeping all but one on the board. This is a group — including Kenny Pickett who was taken by the Steelers — that is graded in round three. They aren’t good. There’s nobody to hang your hat on for the future. Not Malik Willis. Not Desmond Ridder. Not Sam Howell.
I have some faith in Matt Corral but not enough to want the Seahawks to take him in round two.
Resist. Wait until next year. Continue to build this roster with a big emphasis on the trenches.
If you missed it earlier, here’s my video reaction immediately after the Cross pick.
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Loved the reaction streams, but I have to ask….what is with the left thumb Rob? It looks like it’s bending really weird. Maybe it was just the camera, but the way your thumb looked like it was bending was tripping me out.
I can bend my thumbs back — double jointed on both sides
I watched EFAP reaction to Malignant, and your thumbs reminded me of that movie where killer “reversed” her side. That movie really pissed me off because they made a point of saying that it took place in Seattle, but they just used a few frames of Pike Place market for “authenticity”
I’ll show off the thumbs in Friday’s pre-R2 live stream
I am double jointed also. I used to be able to bend my thumbs all the way back to my wrists when I was younger.
I can’t wait to show off my thumbs on the stream later
Draft call. Nothing particularly special, but anyway:
https://www.facebook.com/Seahawks/videos/3111023729115395
It would take one truly remarkable call to ever top DK’s.
That one is in the vault as one of the all-time greatest.
“are you at home” – “no, I’m in Vegas” hahah Pete didn’t know he was even there! Must have been focused on his big board. I guess thats good
wonder if someone like Arnold E or Drake Jackson or Nik Bonitto/Boye Mafe available at 40 to help the pass rush
Arnold, Drake, Mafe, Sam W, Ojabo
Rob quick question for you do you see C Cross similar to another Mike leach tackle Andre Dillard
Dillard was bigger and more explosive
Then why is he not getting a 5th year?
Because Dillard’s show to be a crap, finesse blocker from the air-raid
That’s an excellent point about cross fitting in Pete’s vision. Do you think this could be representative of a change in philosophy? Andy Dickerson having more of an influence on the OL? More flexibility on measurables across the board? Or perhaps even a change in Pete’s vision?
Because Trevor penning fits our vision. Explosive measurables. Attitude. Brawling run blocker. But I’m glad we didn’t take him because I think cross is the better left tackle.
That’s where I’m at. The dude is at least a true LT prospect.
Why isn’t the PC/JS presser being transmitted live?
Their biggest need was left tackle. They just got one. Is it possible they’re looking at Carson Strong as their “game manager”? Cross might fit with a passer who steps up in the pocket.
Hate the pick became more alright with it in the hopes that once Johnson fell to 25 that they would pull the trigger and trade up I was screaming at my tv. But I heard from one of the analysis of the pick that when he was recruited Charles cross that is that leach’s system wasn’t in place idk if that is true but maybe he has some upside as a run blocker but was only asked to pass protect I’m not sure I’m looking for something because I’m not happy at all.
They had to get their LT of the future at some point. The opportunity presented itself, and they capitalized.
21 year old with no injury or character red flags, premium position, had excellent advanced stats and analytics in the best conference in the country, wasn’t a reach -pff #3 rated prospect. Guys who know offensive line love him (Woody, Schwartz, Jenkins, Manyweather). Comps to Brick Ferguson and Ryan Clady.
I’m not saying he wasn’t good I don’t think he fits us whatsoever, and it was a reach for me it’s alright if others feel differently. I have now went out of my way to try to find something I can like. This is for rob I’m still not sold but I’m sure scouts have been following him for awhile as they do every player maybe they saw him finishing in the run game in high school they seemed to run over his side a lot but still that’s a high school level and I don’t know what the competition is that he is up against.
http://www.hudl.com/v/2Eh6DL
Woody, Schwartz, Jenkins, Manyweather, and even Steve Hutchinson like Cross. If the best of the best see something in him then there’s something to that. We can’t dismiss it. We’ll see about how he transitions to the NFL.
Rob is right about his narrow base. That invites edges to bull-rush him and the play strength is adequate. He loses ground quickly but can anchor once he finds his footing because he has great balance. Though, to his credit he doesn’t always look horrible in the context of the whole play (it doesn’t always end up in a sack or pressure). It just doesn’t look pretty sometimes.
Another worry that I have about Cross is that he opens his hips way too soon. In other words in his kick-step, he opens before he reaches his 3rd step. He also doesn’t strike or jolt the defender. This is a very bad habit and it allows really fast and bendy edges to get around the corner. In college, he recovers a lot of the time. In the NFL, will this bad habit continue? If so, he can surrender the edge to superior athletes.
Overall, there is a lot to like about Cross and some things he needs to work on. A lot of his bad can be coached up and worked on. His mirror is good. His feet is good. He has enough athleticism. I think he’ll get bigger and stronger. The coaches will no doubt point about his narrow base and try to correct his hips opening up too soon.
I’m reserving judgement about him until we actually see him play a NFL game. It’s not a home run pick. It’s not a compete downer as well. It’s not one that excites or disappoints for me. I’ll just say he’s not a bad player and he has a pretty good chance to be at least decent in the NFL.
Duke Manyweather will love anyone willing to pay him to use his O-line facility pre-draft
Same for all these pre-draft trainers
These guys get their own TV shows and stuff now. It’s big business.
And maybe he does genuinely love Cross. But his opinion is not exactly unbiased, is it?
Agreed rob especially when all you have done is ask all the right questions about cross and you view everyone unbiased that’s why I usually swing to your mocks instead of the others, then when you make an honest judgement about cross you get backlash from someone who trains him and obviously wants him highly touted because he worked with him and that just brings more money his way. I am in no way routing for him to fail I would love for him to be everything his testing wasn’t and he gets bigger and becomes a cornerstone what fan doesn’t want that. But to me there are tackles still on the board that I would rather have in Lucas who I feel is better for what we do, and I really like obinna eze as a under the radar guy has elite size and 36 inch arms needs work tech wise but would be worth a year sitting behind Duane if we went elsewhere with that 9th pick.
I wonder if this is staging for a new air raid scheme.
Do you seriously expect Carroll to do that? Seriously?
Day 1 was good.
Tomorrow let’s see Gordon and Mafe at 40/41 and Tindall at 72
Would love that trifecta of players
And Cam Jurgens!
I would like in this order based on how the board falls:
1) Edge: We missed out in the first. Plenty of talent left on the board. Sam Williams. Boye Mafe. Many more. (Would they wait until the 4th to pick a more developmental type?)
2) LB: Simple. All the 2nd-tier dudes are all there. You most likely get to pick your guy!
3) Jurgens: I hope they pull the trigger here if he’s available.
*LB seems inevitable. I don’t mind waiting on Edge if they take Jurgens. That just mean they have to wait until the 3rd and hope a player fall or take a true developmental guy in the 4th or below.
I think it is more important to close OL right side than center, given that Linderbaum is not there and Blythe could act as a hedge. Abraham Lucas as RT seems more appealing if available. Agree that Edge position must be filled with the other 2nd round pick. 3rd round will still offer good opportunities at LB or CB
Just to remind everyone, just because the draft didn’t start how we wanted it, does not mean it will end that way.
I have been thinking about this pick pissed we didn’t get j johnson but the more i think about it the league is going pass heavy. We just got the best pas protector. The league wants short and intermediate connections. The league wants passes to the rb. The league just wants to pass.i have a feeling the hawks wanted a quick game but russell likes the air. That’s a broncos problem. I think we got the best tackle for where the game is going.
I mean this with as much respect as I can.
For the love of god please stop talking about Wilson.
1. He’s not our qb
2. See #1
3. Repeat #2 ad infinitum
He barely said anything about Wilson. It’s more a comment on where he thinks offenses are headed. A comment like this basically says you’re not allowed to comment on anyone that isn’t a Seahawk currently.
So, Peter, please do not comment on anyone that gets drafted today that isn’t drafted by the Seahawks because: 1. They aren’t our (insert position here.) 2. See #1 3. Repeat #2 ad infinitum.
Comments like these are trash and lead to good members taking a hike. 1. Comeback BobbyK 2. See #1 2. Repeat #2 ad infinitum.
I mean this with as much respect as I can.
You may want to read the context with which I used Wilson before coming on here and writing non-productive things. Listing the same thing does not make you seem literate nor does it show any of your knowledge about football. I was clearly referencing Wilson due to his propensity for the deep ball ala “air”. Russell’s ideals of the long ball or long drawn out plays with a lot of air is not conducive with where league trends are going. I don’t care about Russell’s propensities anymore because as I have previously noted that is now a Bronco’s problem. I was stating a productive comment about how I believe this Tackle may be better suited for a quick game that the Hawks wanted but Russell did not. If you would not like to productively respond and you’d rather surf the net to leave empty negative comments you can troll the Twitterverse or go fishing.
You do realize the PC is all about running the ball and deep shots down field?
DC,
you do realize that PC hired a disciple of the Rams. A team that uses a lot of sweep, and quick game action to setup the run. You also realize that the league is heading towards more of a pass heavy game. If you can’t see that look at all the better teams in the league, the ONLY team that was a run heavy team that made it to the playoffs was the Titans, and I don’t think I need to remind you what happened to them. Also are you so daft as to think that every single one of those deep shots down the field was a byproduct of PC saying, “Russell, I want you to hold the ball for 5 seconds, run around, and throw your glorious moonball down the field 50 yards.” Do you think any of those games PC walked away saying, “phew that could have been a disaster.” I believe PC let Russell go because he was tired of those antics, and PC knows where the league is going so he hired someone NOT from under his tree and Russell was stubborn enough to think his hero ball can win him games and PC was wrong. If PC was all about running the ball and taking deep shots and felt so stubbornly about that do you think he would have hired Waldron, or would he have hired someone like his son to carry out his dated gameplan?
Kelly, you don’t have to say things like ‘are you so daft’ to people when they’re basically implying Pete Carroll will want to play Pete Carroll football.
OK.
Edit that out then. I still believe what I wrote was a lot more productive then just saying Pete Ball. It is very possible that Pete is trying to change to a dink and dunk game and we would be remissed to acknowledge that especially seeing the tackle they just took who excels in the quick game protection.
Or maybe they just drafted a left tackle.
I would say that’s a more productive suggestion than, ‘Pete Carroll… of all people… now wants to throw the ball around the yard’.
Carroll literally spoke about him having to adapt to their style in the press conference.
I’m suggestion a change may be coming. I’m not definitively saying Pete will “throw the ball around the yard.” Just as I’m not definitively saying Pete will “run the ball and take deep shots.” Can we not acknowledge the idea that a change may be coming?
I don’t think this was a bad day at all. Sad about JJ but clearly many smart teams avoided him as well (Baltimore twice). I would love Williams or Mafe at 40. Slight trade back from 41 and take Tindall or Jurgens. Pierce at 72
I’m hoping Edge and LB in round 2 tomorrow. Who are your favorites?
Edge – I’m rooting for Ojabo. Just saw DJ had Cliff Avril as his comp, so you know PC/JS will be interested! Saw it’s possible he’s ready in October.
LB – Dean? He’s the most highly ranked, but I’d like Tindall also. I think we need speed to keep up with Kooper Kupp’s crossing routes!
If we got Ojabo and Dean, I’d be super excited!
Go Hawks!
Ojabo, Lucas then trade up to late 2nd for Jurgens.
That would be awesome — would Jurgens last until the 3rd?
CENTER! Give me Jurgens or Tom….Jurgens particularly and then draft the BPA on defense.
How about Lucas, Jurgens for an all o-line extravaganza?
I think my preference is a few trade downs for more picks, dropping into the 50s or 60s.
Ojabo would be interesting but rather have Sam Williams or Ebitikie/Mafe if they fall.
Pretty tempted to do all oline and just get it rolling.
Part of me wants travis jones+mafe.
Back to back to back oline could be fun to put that area to bed.
Then get any unique players you can on defense.
Jones and Mafe would be my choice, too.
An anchor NT and a really good EDGE.
If you want speed then Dean ain’t it…You’re looking at Chenal, Troy Anderson, Tindall as pure speed guys.
Dean is the most instinctive linebacker in the draft; he is also incredibly smart (mechanical engineering major) and will fill the leadership void left by Wagner. I would be totally in favor of that pick.
highly doubt they go qb tomorrow. My guess is inside linebacker and edge rusher. feels inevitable.
Edge and safety. New defense and a lot of smoke with safeties this offseason.
This is what I also expect: Edge and LB/S, depending on who is available and our view on Base or Nickel sets. Probably safety over LB. Lots of great options (hoping for Drake/Bonitto + Pitre). Then at 72, hopefully Zach Tom is still there to be our next Center
They shouldn’t waste a pick on a safety
Just play Ryan Neal
Call it safety, call it LB, call it STAR defender. But we need another starter caliber player. I Iike Neal, but he is not a starter who gets 70% of the snaps.
Picking a safety over a more traditional LB would put Jamal Adams more in the box. He is wasted as a deep defender. Let him defend the underneath zones, cover TE or blitz. I think drafting a safety over a more traditional LB would help him do so. We had interest in Cine, Desai plays a lot of 2 safety nickel or even Dime formations. I think safety is abigger need than LB. But would not hate Tindall or another LB. As I said, we need another starter on D
Only way I could have seen them go safety is of Cine was still there. That kid fits the mold of what they look for and can play in coverage.
This is what I keep coming back to also, especially after BAL taking a safety they didn’t “need.” Why was Seattle sniffing around top safeties? I don’t want a safety, but I can’t stop thinking a versatile thumper like Brisker or Nick Cross is headed this way with the Seahawks using more big nickel, even with Blair and Neal already here.
One quick thought did the saints basically trade a next year number one pick for Chris olave wow and Rob on a scale of one to ten how surprised to you that saints moved up for Chris olave
I’m surprised by everything the Saints are doing
Wonder if the Saints offered the same to the hawks? Woulda figured they would try.
98, 120 and pick at 16 wouldn’t have been terrible but not great.
Not trying to put lipstick on a pig here, but there are some great players that will be available at 40/41 as expected, and even 72 for that matter. No need to be glum.
Cross possesses some great traits- just a stark contrast to what we anticipated based on historical drafting- which Pete alluded to in tweets.
I’m probably most bummed that we didn’t trade down. Cross wasn’t a reach per se, but would’ve liked more picks is all vs getting him. I suspect they tried to trade back but failed to get proper compensation.
After watching JS presser, they definitely wanted to trade down and PC had no say.
I don’t love JS. Have a lot of problems with him actually. But for Pete to be successful he needs to start delegating and let the scouts and gm do their thing.
Not in love with the pick, but it fills a need, wasn’t a reach and they didn’t get cute. So it’s hard to argue with it. On a side note my wife who is a Mississippi State alum tried to high five me after the pick. I left her hanging, let’s just say that wasn’t the best response.
Wives amirite. Can’t leave them hanging.
LOL — Happy wife……
Charles Cross:
TEF- 2.84
Arm length – 34.5
Height – 6’5″
Weight – 307
40- 4.95
Shuttle- 4.61
Duane Brown (Draft)
TEF- 2.92
Arm length – 34.25
Height – 6’5″
Weight – 300
40- 5.03
Shuttle- 4.55
They drafted another Duane Brown. Hopefully Duane Brown will be around to teach him
Doubt they resign Duane with Cross in the fold. It is a good idea though, id be all for having 2 good OTs for a change!
I think we’ve seen the last of ol’ Duane, for good or ill. Our brain trust was very definitive in the post-draft conference last night that Cross was an LT. That did not sound like a plan to use Cross at RT for a year while he learned, and they surely aren’t going to move Duane over there. The only other option would be to sit Cross in favor of Brown. Doubt very much they will do that
Have to consider:
What if they couldn’t trade up or down (JS said as much)? Then who do you take? Cearly media and mock draft evals of J Johnson weren’t the same as the proscouts.
There was a big OT drop off and again, ignoring one’s own amateur scouting views, Cross is obviously way way more valuable than, say, Lucas.
So based on the reality of not being able to trade back, it’s probably the best they could have done.
Further, you can’t compare Jets/ Eagles etc since they had way way more draft capital, and their needs were different (easy to draft a top WR at 10 when there was barely any interest in WRs in the top 9 and there were 3-4 great 1st rounders).
For example, flip the script: WRs get taken instead of the OTs and Seahawks get the pick of Ekwonu or Neal, we would have been very happy. Same if one of the Edge defenders fell instead of the WRs.
Now we look to 40/41, and looks like a great Edge player will be there, maybe a QB, and possibly an excellent CB. 2 of those and some great options at 72 will be available.
@rob does cross’ pro day vert change his TEF score? Per this site his very was 30.5 ?
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2022-nfl-draft-pro-day-schedule-and-results-tracker-with-measurements-times-for-top-prospects-draft/
Speaking of Pro Days, I had missed Kyler Gordon’s at Washington. Gordon’s three-cone was 6.67 seconds and his short shuttle was 3.96 seconds. He had a 39.5-inch vertical and a 10-8 broad jump.
Don’t know what was happening during the combine but those numbers are smokin’.
I just recalculated it with that and it still came out to 2.84
I had already adjusted Cross’ TEF score to account for the 30.5 vertical at pro-day
He’s a 2.84 — not awful but not great
Charles Cross TEF is 2.84.
That includes:
Vert of 30.5
Bench of 20
Broad Jump of 112″
I like the pick of Cross. JS didn’t get cute and filled a gaping hole with a quality player in the proper range. LT had a huge talent cliff after Cross. Penning has talent but looks like a project. Cross is a plug and play LT. Robs podcast primer he said his source projected Cross to go 8-12. Spot on.
We have picks 8 and 9 to kick off day 2. Tons of talent still on the board!
Agree. If you’re going to reach—and it doesn’t sound like the Seahawks think this is a reach—it should be for a cornerstone position.
FWIW, I doubt they would have taken Stingley even if he had dropped. If the injury history had blown up in his face after McDowell and Penny, Schneider would have lost his job. Throw in the Collier fiasco, and he was going to make a safe pick.
“The Seahawks say that Cross checks all the boxes and will make the adjustment to run blocking.” That’s the headline on the Seattle Times article.
This is my primary issue with all things Seahawks for the past several seasons – regardless of whether it’s a player or a coach, people entering the franchise are expected to “adjust” to PeteBall because Peteball don’t adjust.
Cross, a guy that just cost the #9 pick in the draft, is expected to “adjust” his game accordingly to fit Pete’s program. I mean, it’s admitted immediately that he doesn’t really fit. Someone should ask Pete what convinced them that Cross would be able to successfully adjust his game. Was it the testing? Game film? A random feeling? Cross is just the latest addition expected to “adjust.”
Shane Waldron, as a new OC last season, won praise from Pete only after being “open-minded enough to do things the way they’ve always been done.” He adjusted with, at best, mixed results – and that was WITH an elite QB.
They spent a king’s ransom to bring in a box safety to provide some semblance of pass rush after failing to address the D-line in the offseason and the guy is, let’s say, largely ineffective for large swaths of most games. He doesn’t fit and seemingly can’t adjust. Yes, I know he set a sack record for safeties and is the highest paid player at his position, but that just adds to the rot.
The franchise quarterback just took a hike because, after years of banging his head into a wall, he was no longer willing to try and “adjust.” It didn’t make sense any longer.
Did he allow Waldron any say in selecting Cross? Probably. The thing is, however, that when the game is on the line, Pete assumes OC duties and the game he calls isn’t what the team on the field is best capable of doing. “I didn’t recognize that team.” No shit?
Pete had the opportunity to reset the team in 2017. He failed spectacularly. That he was awarded another opportunity, although he refuses to admit that it’s almost a complete rebuild, is a shame for the franchise and the community of fans who support and root for this team. He tried mentioned being humbled and the need for getting back to doing things the right way, but nothing through free agency and the first pick in the draft indicate that there is any awareness on his part that he continues down the same path. At this point, he is simply a caretaker, held over to babysit this team until the franchise can be sold, repeating the same tired rah rah lines over and over – lines that he should have printed on handy index cards to be passed out as necessary as a time saver for all – “ jacked” – “pumped” – “can’t wait to see them get out there and get after it” – “in it til the end.”
Now he has a first round, top ten selection tackle who is not particularly athletic, quick, or strong and not well-skilled at what Pete demands his offense be best at, who is expected to “adjust” in order to fit Peteball. There were so many players available to take there who do fit the schemes better and it’s almost certain that some of those teams who traded up contacted the Seahawks and were turned away for this pick – just further wasted opportunity for adding picks and dropping a bit to better fits. It looks a lot like the past half-decade.
I suppose the best thing for Cross is that he played in the SEC and not at Northern Iowa. He’s faced good competition. He’s in a tough situation, but I’m pulling for him.
Maybe Day 2 is going to be a kick ass bonanza of great pick after great pick. You never know. Maybe it’ll be, at best, a day filled with guys who won’t have to adjust their game to Peteball. That would be a win.
I didn’t read their comments like that. Cross pass blocked on 80% of plays. No NFL team comes close to that outside of the Bills vs Seahawks in 2020. This is the pro game. He must learn to run block better and Pete doesn’t own running the ball. You bring up Waldron. Running the ball is critical to the Mcvay/Shannahan/Lafluer offense of which he came. Dickerson has cred as an OL coach and the Rams system has make better OTs from worse stock.
Just wanted to say that one of my favorite things about Cross is that he has a twitter account, but before the last few days, he barely uses it. The one thing that tells me is that he is not addicted to dopamine.
+10 for me.
I’ve updated this article with some written words to go with the live stream
Thanks Rob!,
I just never have a chance/time/opportunity to listen to your pod casts. I can however be able to read your articles and I love them.
To any and all (as I hope Rob is currently catching up on his 💤): how does it look for trade downs in the 2nd tomorrow-will it be a buyers market as it seemed to be today?
Also; I would expect to see a heavy dose of D tomorrow, as we “did what had to be done” today. Surely, some promises were made to Desai to get him to take the position here!
I full well expect an edge and a LB tomorrow. And we can’t engage in short selling with what I see as a precariously positioned RB room.
Starting to sound like my grocery list exceeds my food stamps. 😜
Quick final point before I have two hours sleep and then start all over again.
I do this in my spare time, as a hobby. It takes up virtually every second of my free time,
I’m allowed to be a bit underwhelmed by this pick, just as others can celebrate it if they wish. I can argue my case, having watched his tape. I don’t think in anything I’ve written or said I’ve been overtly negative. It’s all just a bit ‘meh’ to me — and I do question the scheme fit. I’ve not said anything today I didn’t say before the draft started and the pick was made. I’ve been consistent with my thoughts on Cross and I’m not going to change now just because Seattle took him.
And ultimately I am desperate for Charles Cross to succeed. I want this team to win. Badly.
So why be a troll, posting abuse? Or accusing me of being ‘doom and gloom’? Especially when I think I’ve been very bullish about this team since the Wilson trade?
What is the point of that? Does it make you feel good? Does it make you feel alive?
Because for me it just makes me think what’s the f-ing point any more with fans like this.
This is why I cancelled all my social media accounts years ago. You need some sleep.
ironic from an account named kd lol
… because life does not exist on the internet.
Well, it’s easy to see your not 15 years old!
RESPECT!
I think people would troll Jesus if he was creating content. And before the trolls have a heart attack, I’m not comparing Rob to Jesus, just making a point.
Stay strong Rob, people are weak and want to drag other people down. Your hard work is very very appreciated and respected. Cheers
“what’s the f-ing point any more with fans like this.”
It’s the internet. That’s how this works
Great job today Rob! And this whole draft season and the last ten or so years since I stumbled upon your site! Don’t let the haters bring you down. You are the best in the draft business out there. We are blessed as Seahawks fans to have you.
Any inside info for the big fall for jermaine Johnson? Any rumblings of character or injury red flags??
Rob, today’s been really impressive on your side, so much work you put into a passion, it’s a life lesson for everyone. Don’t let the haters get to you, you are reaching a lot of people that really love what you do. Thank you.
Ignore the haters Rob. You are one of the best in the business. I’m underwhelmed too. Add in Jurgens, Tindall, and Pierce tomorrow and I’m right back to being pumped.
Here’s what I’m rooting for. Let me know if you feel there is a better player to be had at the particular pick or position! Go Hawks!
40 Ojabo OLB – back in October and will be a good pairing with Taylor for the next 4 years!
50 Trade back and take Lucas as our starting RT
72 Pierce RB
109 Parham C (some have him rated higher than Jurgens)
118 (from trade back) Damone Clark LB LSU – some say would be Rd 1/2 if not for injury.
145 Butler S
153 McCollum CB
229 York K LSU
Can you confirm where you are reading an October return for Ojabo? I’m not reading the same early time frame, would be incredible, in fact the time frames are all over the place.
I’m with everyone, not a huge fan of this pick but obviously still rooting for him to succeed.
It’s been a long several months and feels like a bit of a let down. I just wanted to say I’ve enjoyed the ride and am still in for the long haul.
Rob, you are going to get attacked for calling a spade “a spade” and not drinking the PC/JS coolaid, I can only imagine how deflating that must feel at times but please know you have a ton of fans who appreciate what you do and try to support your content. Looking forward to another eventful few days with you all!
.
Cheers!
Agreed. It’s not the sexy pick we were all hoping for but it isn’t a normal Seahawk head scratcher either that could very well turn out to be solid.
So could they try to trade down from either 41/42? Does having back to back picks work in our favour in that respect?
The best decision in this draft was that I choose to sleep instead of watching live.
Is everyone in denial or what is this accepting tone in every comment?
This OT class is probably just as bad as the QBs. First top10 pick in many years and they do this???
And all of that with JJ still on board. And don’t even trade up to the 20s to get him later.
Without them getting lucky this is gonna be a bottom 5 offense and a bottom 10 defense.
Much more complete teams trading away top WRs, but they keep DK. But hey, with the money they can keep not signing Brown, they can give DK the extension.
With Cross blocking and DK catching, Geno is gonna be a top3 QB. Who cares if opponents will put up 35+ points?
This team is 💩 FO is 💩 but at least next year’s draft might be interesting again. If I’ll follow them at all
Rob, I hope you are still snoozing, but I want to try and express myself on behalf of ‘The other kind of fans’ who are devoted to the SDB and by whom you are held in high esteem and great affection.
I would be a patron of the blog, we’re I not a 68 year old man, living in a foreign country, on about $1,000/month, still working 40 hours a week, no health insurance and having two mouths to feed.
Just setting the scene, not complaining. This is the life I chose when the bottom fell out for me in the States 28 years ago.
Do things get me down? Ya sure, you betcha. But I consider myself lucky to have been on board for the past decade or more plus of Seahawks football, with all its glorious ups and downs, and with you there to help us sort through all that. There have been times when you and the blog community, as the better side of Hawkdom, have saved me from some real lows-and you made the high-water marks feel higher as well.
We live in times where so many people live within bubbles-semi-permeable (at best) to information that conflicts with their preconceived notions. Civil forms of argumentation and discourse become a thing to be defended against. And this off-season has been of the sort that generates maximum interest, but that sword cuts both ways: hence, trolls abound.
And sadly, the trolls, though undoubtedly fewer in number, are the more vocal: of course they are-it’s all they have!
But just know, the true supporters of the community (because. THAT IS what we are!) love ya bruh! Don’t doubt it!
In closing, as Marshawn might well have said: “‘Preciate ya”! 🦅🏈
Seconded +12
Ignore the arseholes Rob, social media brings them out, your coverage has been terrific, even better than previous years.
I’m not excited by Cross, but don’t hate it either, I’d rather have him than Penning and just glad they didn’t trade up from round 2 to get a QB, hope they avoid them in round 2 as well, although a flyer on Corral or Willis I suppose could be justified.
If Cross can be an above average LT for 10 years then that has value. Remains to be seen if he can be that of course.
I like this pick due to the fact people feel Cross is/could be a franchise left tackle – I also feel with JS comments that they couldn’t find a trade partner without giving away #9 and after trading RW this must have been a big no no as they need to maximize the RW trade value.
I like this pick due to the fact people feel Cross is/could be a franchise left tackle – I also feel with JS comments that they couldn’t find a trade partner without giving away #9 and after trading RW this must have been a big no no as they need to maximize the RW trade value.
Hi Rob, it’s my first time posting a comment here but I’m a long time reader and avid consumer of the Seahawks Draft Blog. As a football fan from the UK, I chose the Seahawks on a whim after watching late night coverage on TV and falling in love with players like Lynch and the early LOB. I’ve been lucky enough to attend a few of the international games, including when the Seahawks played the Raiders, and later did a year abroad in Texas as part of my degree. Alongside seeing games in real life, your blog has been just as influential in helping me to increase my understanding of the game and particularly see it through the lense of my favourite team. I just wanted to post to add my name to the many comments saying how valuable this resource is and how much your tireless effort is appreciated in all the work that goes into the SDB. Wilson has been the only QB I’ve really known during my time following the Seahawks, but your content has made me really excited and optimistic for what the next chapter holds. Hope you manage to catch up on some sleep, and looking forward to the draft picks to come later today…and of course all your analysis to compliment them! Go Hawks!
Agree with most point made in this piece.
I would never criticise anyone for picking a true LT at #9. At the same time, to me, Cross is a 21yr old prospect, who should have stayed in college for another season.
Most discussions at my draft bbq were following the lines, that he could turn out Radhawn Slater, that the Seahawks were taking the best player available, that he is still only 21, that he is not the final product, that testing isn’t everything, that you cannot expect a young guy be a leader and act like one.
When a fanbase needs to use hope to defend a pick, the pick by definition has to be controversial. I most cases, it turns out plain bad. I think, he will need to kick inside to guard, it’s the Ifedi story all over again.
And, it has to be said… for the resources spent on peacocks, we could have had a better LT, last season and a first rate WR, as it seems. My wife is a gang Green addict. She ate her dish wish a big wide devillish smile, which basically means:
She won that trade.
Kudos to the Jets and Lions, who had cultural impacting drafts. Gianrs did well, same goes for Green Bay. Also happy for the Bolts to just pick up the best OL available.
Laughed my ass off over Vikes and Cowboys. Jerry doing Jerry things. “Hey, boss, there is this pass rusher to pair with Micah” “Nah, wrong name, there has to be only one JJ in Dallas!”
There are questions about Cross, to be sure. But one result is very, very unlikely to happen. They are not going to “kick him into guard.” That would simply nullify his best attributes and accentuate his worst ones. Or at least his most untested ones.
I’m hoping Jurgens over all others. However, I think Travis Jones would be a must take at 40. If we get both I’d be excited. Maybe a trade Down & hope to still get Jurgens while adding more capital.
Then Sam Williams & a LB if we pick up an extra in the 3rd.We would have atleast accomplished adding to the trenches which most of us were hoping for.
RB in the 4th?
Maybe Washington trades up for a QB, giving us 47 & 113 for 41?
Will be interesting.
P.S.
Rob I’m sorry for all the imbeciles, you are appreciated more than you will ever realize. Hang in there. We definitely need you here.
Sounds like the Bucs may be targeting Jones at 33.
Day #2 dream scenario
#40 Sam Williams (Edge/ Miss) if you believe Cross is an NFL quality LT then you have to live Williams who abused him. Williams ticks all the athletic profile boxes as well.
#41 Cam Jurgens (C/ Nebraska ) tough and nasty with a great physical profile could be the new leader of the OL group going forward.
#72 Best LB on the board ideally Anderson or Tindall but there are lots of options.
Day #3 focus on RB, special teams and depth guys with character.
#40 Logan Hall – Big, Tall and squishy. He can be our next Calais Campbell.
#41 Trade down – Abe Lucas RT.
#72 Best C available.
I am not really sure what you mean by “squishy” but it made me chuckle. I am imagining the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man in a football uniform.
Would be quite happy with this. Wouldn’t mind Kyler Gordon at CB somewhere in there, either.
I badly want to see Cross to succeed.
There is some hilarity though.
Some new guy at FG wrote a fair scouting report on Cross, which basically makes him look as a 3rd round talent. Boy the community wasn’t happy. Someone forgot to tell the rookie you are not allowed to do that at FG.
Keep this guy away from the atvs please
😅
I really like what the Packers and Giants did
I agree. Packers fans are still mad though because they haven’t addressed WR. Pickens, Watson, and Moore were never first round players, so why reach?
Both nailed it! GB has to get a WR or 2 today. NYG got 2 true blue chips at premium positions of need.
Joe Douglas had a day for the Jets too. They’ll get a 4th starter quickly today.
Rob quick thought on day one how the hell did Detroit move up 20 picks and basically give up a third round pick to team in your division. . I guess Lamar Jackson isn’t very happy according to his Twitter account . Perhaps Baltimore is saying to Lamar you want to talk contact yet? One can argue that the Los Angeles chargers have had the best off season let’s get K Mack.and J C Jackson and Zion Johnson.they are crushing it
OK, after thinking more about it…I still hate the pick, but I think day2 could rectify that a bit. I can see 2 reasonable path for the Hawks:
1, Build a new, improved OL for the future
OL will likely need time to gel together, and rookie linemen tends to struggle a bit in the early going. If you wanna contend in 2-3 years, you need to start building your OL. Cross might be bad in 1st year, but with decent coaching, he could be solid, good or even great in 2-3 from now.
We have Lewis, we need an OC, OG and RT.
I could see them taking Lucas and Jurgens with 40 and 41 and maybe even Raimann, Bruss or Goedeke for example. Or if Lucas is taken, Jurgens and Raimann for 40 and 41 and Obinna Eze in R3.
That could give us an OL like this:
Cross – Bruss – Jurgens – Lewis – Lucas
Probably awful in year 1, but after a couple of years they could be really good.
Would this scenario make me happy? Hell no, probably the most boring draft ever. But if they feel they wanna go young on the OL, this is the time to do. Next year they can get their QB and bolster the defense, and in year 3 or 4 they might be able to contend with a young group
2, Filled the need, now go BPA
Travis Jones still on the board is just crazy. He might be a DT, but with some upside. If he’s there at #40, get him. Mafe and Ojabo also available. I wouldn’t pick Ojabo in R2, he’s out and still need time to develop. Probably amazing value in R3 or R4, but early R2 is too high for me. (maybe trade back from #41 to late R2 and pick him there). I’m fine with Lucas or Jurgens too, but fi we go BPA while also elevate the team, that should/could mean to strengthen the defense too. Tindall or Chenal could also be in play here. For CTB, Pierce or Zach Tom, Damone Clark early R2 is a bit rich, but after a trade-back they could be options. If they think Hall or Walker is their RB for the future, they could get them also.
For me, I wouldn’t mind trading with Dallas for example. #41 for #56 and #88.
Picking either Travis Jones or Mafe or Tindall at #40
and picking either Taylor-Britt, Daemon Pierce, Zach Tom or Ojabo or Damone Clark with #56
We could really use an LB and a passrusher and an RB.
So any of these pairings would work for me: Jones (not a passrusher, just pure value in R2) + Pierce, Mafe + Clark, Mafe + Pierce, Mafe + CTB, Tindall + Ojabo, Tindall + CTB, Tindall + Pierce.
I’d probably rather pick Jones or Tindall than Mafe. And Clark or Pierce or CTB or even Zach Tom than Ojabo.
I feel these rushers are a notch down to those who went in R1 and not that hugely better than who’ll likely go in R3.
So probably my preference:
Jones or Tindall for #40
After a trade back (for example 56 and 88 for 41) if Jones selected pick Damone Clark (yeah he might only play next year or something, but big upside and not that it matters a lot how this year’s roster will look like at the moment). If Tindall is selected pick CTB or Pierce
If no RB selected, #72 could be White
If no passrusher selected before, we could go with Bonitto or Clemons
If for some reason LB is skipped, I like Chad Muma or if Troy Anderson is available, he seems pretty good too. If none of those guys available, I’d choose Asamoah
#88 could be any of the previous guys or Obinna Eze or JAD if he slips to mid R3
I also wouldn’t hate a QB here. Corral or Willis. Good technique for Corral so there might be something there in the long run (at least a good backup), and Willis has high ceiling (also low floor), so mid R3 is the place where I wouldn’t mind taking a shot, maybe we get lucky.
So an R2 and R3 like this:
Travis Jones, Damone Clark, Zamir White, Michael Clemons
or without huge steals
Tindall, Pierce, Bonitto, Corral
would be a nice palate clenser after Cross
What I think they’ll do:
Filling holes just like they did with Cross
What could they see as a hole?
They’re thin at LB. They might wanna add a QB too. They also said that competition for OG is open
Not sure they see EDGE as a huge need (sure a nice thing to have, but maybe they think adding Nwosu filled that hole), not sure they see RB as s huge need (they like Penny, and love Carson, and might think they added some rookies recently so they wanna figure out if Penny/Carson/Dallas/Collins could be the answer to the future). I also think they don’t see CB as a huge need (with Brown, Burns, Coleman, Jones, Reid could compete to start). No idea what they think about C and not sure if they would be willing to double dip into the OT class. Although Lucas would rhyme pretty well to Cross as for blocking, and strong pass blockers.
I think they’ll likely select Tindall or Chenal. Raimann or Bruss. And potentially Willis, Corral or Strong. They might select Lucas if available, and I could see them selecting either Zach Tom or Jurgens. But I think Lucas and Jurgens will be gone by #40. So my best guess would be:
#40 Tindall
#41 Corral/Willis
#72 Bruss/Goedeke
for #109 it’s hard to see what’ll happen in R2 and R3, but I think that could be the place for an RB, CB or EDGE
Rob, just wanted to add my $.02 regarding your awesome production of draft content. I check the blog every day, several times a day to see what great new content you have put out. Really appreciate it.
I hope today they don’t get too cute. Jurgens and Mafe/Williams is what I’m hoping for in the 2nd. Since it’s so cheap to trade up now, hopefully trade back up to the 2nd for whichever LB they like too.
I new LInderbaum would go in the 20s, was surprised Cole Strange went 29 to Pats…
You’re not the only one. Priceless…
https://twitter.com/NFLonCBS/status/1519881023609356289
Also… Lamar on Twitter after the Hollywood-Trade… “WTF?”
Rob, do you ever regret that you didn’t become a Ravens fan? I’ve been reading this blog for 12 years and they always pick the guys you like! I almost feel like Ravens fans should be reading this blog to see who they might select
I am jealous
Id liek to see them grab the Nebraska C with the next pick if he is there, anchor this OL for next 5yrs, possibly 10 if they pan out.
Also Rob if the rumors are true about AJ Brown new contract with the Eagles 4 years at 100 million are true .If you are DK Metcalf that’s your starting number isn’t it..
Is Collins still under contract? Saw him listed in a post above, but was unsure. Even with, I can’t see them thinking they can get away without 1 addition to the RB room.
With the rate of inflation, I’d be asking for $30M APY lol
Brown only has $57 million guaranteed. Seems like a lot, but considering every GM freaking out over the Watson deal, it makes that $100 million a bit less eye popping.
Hill got over $72 million guaranteed, and Adams got $67.5 million guaranteed. So I would expect DK to be somewhere near their two guarantee totals.
And, after all that being said, this team sucks at contract negotiations.
I’ll be very interested to see how the Eagles structured this deal.
I predicted a $100m/4yr w $60m for DK and the structuring I proposed was workable for the Hawks.
With the jets going WIlson at WR 10 I think Denzel Mims is out there. Id love to see us try to get him. Great upside there, young big WR who plays a bit like DK without as much physicality. Should come on the cheap, maybe a 7th rounder would pry him free…
It really comes down to do you trust the seahawks coaches to elevate Cross. Having watched a lot of Mike Leach led teams a few things come to mind about his oline.
They pass 80% of the time so just a lot of repetition for all offensive players.
They almost never get in a 3 point stance. Going to have to teach that and then see how well he gets out of it.
Leach’s Oline uses wide splits to protect the edges. In more conventional NFL splits can he still seal the edge?
Big learning curve
This could Signal a Matt Corral pickup
I am truly terrified they will use 40 or 41 on a qb.
I’m thinking the opposite.
I look at it as them getting a franchise LT in place with one year of reps under his belt before going after the next franchise QB in 2023.
I could even see them grabbing Lucas and Jurgens. Prep the Oline for the next phase of the rebuild in 2023.
I bet you they are not taking another OL in 2nd round.
I think they will go QB & DL unless they trade down then I would prefer Lucas.
I have a question about Cross’s athleticism, Rob. You often say that he is a meh and relatively unathletic tester. According to this (https://ras.football/ras-information/?PlayerID=21136&pos=OT), this seems to be true for the vert and the 3-cone, but confusing he does well in the other agility/explosion exercise (the broad jump and the shuttle). Does this suggest a technique issue? PCJS also referred to him as an athlete at the position, which seems to contradict your assessment a bit. Any thoughts?
The simple fact is he isn’t an explosive athlete and as highlighted in this article he would be an O-line outlier comparatively speaking:
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/why-explosive-traits-matter-on-the-offensive-line
The biggest thing he needs is to get into a proper weight program. He has barely any muscle definition. His frame is quite sloppy to be brutally honest. He ran a shirtless forty on the rather silly ‘big boys club’ TV show and it wasn’t a good look. One of the fairly consistent concerns with him is he needs to get stronger and more powerful. I would hope he’ll live in the gym and benefit from the nutrition and lifestyle of a pro-athlete now. It’ll be interesting to see if his body changes and if can gain 10lbs of muscle (which, to be fair, is easily possible looking at his shirtless frame).
Explosive traits do matter. Now I’m not saying he’s a joke of an athlete like Kenyon Green or anything. He ran a decent forty and that, as the article shows, has been a fairly surprising indicator of success too. But he isn’t an explosive tester, that generally does matter (especially in a scheme where they will presumably run a lot) and he will need to make improvements there.
I don’t think any of this is unfair to be honest.
Remember when Rashaad Penny dropped a major revelation his second year that he needed to stop eating fast food?
This might sound a bit silly, but I’m struggling to have a real take on the Cross pick. It’s just so far outside what we’ve come to expect that it’s hard to know how to get a handle on it. I keep flipping between thinking it’s good that the front office have got away from their strictures of the past few years, and thinking that there’s a very confused team identity. He seems like a pretty good player to me, and if you can lock down a LT for the next five plus years that’s worth pick nine every time.
Still a lot of draft left, and a lot of good players.
I was wondering how scathing this write-up would be after Rob had given Cross “the most overrated player in the draft label.” Looks like Rob held back a bit and is trying to have an open mind about the pick.
With that being said, I cannot wait for the reaction if the Hawks take Nakobe Dean tonight.
Rob, first of all really appreciate all your hard work and dedication to the draft despite barely getting any sleep, true followers of the blog know you’re being consistent and not overtly negative. Unfortunately some Seahawks fans either have to be 100% positive at all times or simply see the position picked and think great pick without looking into the player (which of course nobody does for QB).
My question is did you see Brock Huards tweet comparing Charles Cross’ physical profile and combine stats to Duane Brown? Curious to hear your thoughts on that, obviously he isn’t Duane Brown right now and needs to certainly hit the weight room, but that had me feeling more positive cause I haven’t heard Duane Brown described as non-explosive/finesse and would probably be Cross’ ceiling?
I can’t really see that comp personally. But Duane Brown has always looked like the kind of bloke who could play the lead role in a reboot of ‘The Terminator’. I suspect I’ll get killed for this but Charles Cross has quite a sloppy frame at the moment and almost no muscle definition.
If I had to pick someone to have next to me in a fight, Brown would be a contender. Cross? Not so much.
Agreed, Cross needs to add some muscle. PFF did think his frame was a plus though, noting that you want your tackles to look like “rocked up tight ends”, which Cross does. Also, the leap he made from 2020 to 2021 is seen as a plus and suggests Cross can make another leap in the NFL (which he will need to do to have a chance of being great).
Some of that “rock” on Cross appears to be pretty fleshy. Brown looks like a rock mountain. But part of the difference is 21 years old vs. 37, I’m sure…
JS stated in the presser last night, he will gain more weight and muscle as he is just 21, definitely made a point of mentioning his weight gain and size from last year to this year.
I made the same comp. Cross TEF 2.84, Brown TEF 2.92. Very similar measurements and speed testing. I do believe the DB was the more complete player for sure and his build was initially better. There is no shame saying that he looks a little soggy. It used to be the norm that “A year of pro weights” will shape him up. I still believe that is true. He is young with an amazing frame. The NFL is still about development and if he wants it he will improve
Watched as much footage of Cross as I could find last night. Keep hearing people say he is like Duane Brown but I think the best comp is Larmey Tunsil. Similar frame, arm length and feet.
Is that good or bad?
This just strikes me as a typical Pete pick. He probably won’t be completely terrible just by virtue of his draft position, but he’ll probably end up like Britt, Carpenter, and others and be just barely decent enough but never really pull it together. Just too many red flags and frankly I trust Rob’s analysis over our front office at this point.
The point about the lack of identity is spot on. Say we need pass rush, draft o line. Give every indication that we want to be a run-first offense, then draft a lineman out of an air raid system. Draft an o lineman whose strength is pass-pro after ignoring it for many years, but only after trading away the franchise QB and replacing him with Drew Lock. Seems like we’re again going to see a very confused and inconsistent offense this year.
Completely agree with the questions you raise here BA
I’m rooting for the kid to stay healthy. It seems like all of our top picks get hurt & it stunts their development. Of the folks that were available to draft I would have chosen Jordan Davis. Zion Johnson might end up being the best OL of the 1st round. I don’t feel sick to my stomach about picking Cross. The Seahawks are consistently able to chose 1st round picks who I hadn’t seriously considered.
This I feel in my bones. From the traded first, percy and JA, to okung and others please let Cross stay healthy.
Rob you’re completely in your wheelhouse to question the Cross pick.
It would be awesome if Cross locks up LT.
I think you said it best in the pod with Robbie…this is a “holey,” roster. What is the actual plan here?
-The defense is clearly a 3-4. Just on paper here just looking at raw numbers it’s not any better than last year. Maybe nwosu improves? Because as of now Nwosu is just Rasheem Green only getting 10 million bucks to have a near identical stat line with a near identical snap percentage.
-we have young Shaun Alexander running the rock who like the former MVP needs holes opened to take off and now a LT who is great for pass protection…curious….
-If we are a finesse rhythm offense now should we consider yet another WR?
I leave you with this fellow fans. We just drafted a very good pass protector for a very specific rhythm/timing based offense. Yet we have a good deal (too much?) of money to an unremarkable TE praised for his value in run blocking.
What was up with Robbie in the live stream? Was he so depressed by Cross that he couldn’t talk? It was the early morning hours in England so Rob must have been completely knackered yet when Rob paused to let Robbie add something he mostly just stared at his screens or agreed with a short sentence.
I think I bored him to death
😂
I really wish the Saints had called the Hawks with the deal they offered a few picks later. Man that would have changed everything.
I like early in the pod you just pounding tea I think to keep up the energy.
He had more energy than JS and PC in their press conference. My gosh were they straining.
I noticed that — PCJS were not exactly ‘pumped’
Man, developing a complex over here LOL sorry guys, I’ll be better.
Sorry the above message was supposed to be a stand alone not a reply. As to your comments Peter that’s spot on.
The glimmer of hope I had when Russell was traded was that this would allow Pete to reset the way he wanted to, to get back to his style, and not accommodate to Russ. This team feels like it’s a huge mess now—they’ve abandoned most of their requirements (TEF in o line, length in CB)—which isn’t necessarily bad in and of itself—but there’s no clear vision replacing it.
I just want by about week 8 next year one thing Seattle can hang it’s hat on. Whether we really are a quick strike passing game. We dominate the run. Or even as simple as teams can not run in us. Even if it’s one thing I think I’ll feel like “okay something is starting to gel.”
Because right now for all those that are glad to see Wilson gone in praise of “something different,” it looks like it’s going to be for all the world nearly the same but with more short passing however more turnovers, the same stalled out running game, and the bendiest non breaking defense in the league.
Kyle, not depressed, I’ve got two sick kids at home and coming off of being sick myself. So a combination of just being tired and sick. Mostly I was trying to have a major coughing attack on live stream which happened anyway. So my apologies for seeming out of it. I’ll be more lively in tonight’s POD.
That’s a good point Peter about Dissly. They draft in the first round a finesse pass blocker. Yet in FA they overpay for a run blocking TE.
In the glory years the identity of this team was overwhelming defense and physical offense that eventually wore teams down over the course of the game.
What is the identity of this team?
One of my greatest worries as a fan is not that the team sucks.
Because if your team sucks you have the chance for transformational talent. See JAX. I don’t know about Walker thoughhe is a freak. But Lawrence was such a good prospect who just happened t go pay for one of the worst coaches to ever do it. And now with Pederson who knows.
My worry is Seatte could end up being the tail end Homgren years, chicago, the current saints, or tampa for about two decades prior to brady. A team that is decidely “meh.”
Hope I’m wrong. Because as a life long fan I actually want to watch winning football. I’ll take all my feelings being wrong for exciting games any day.
Maybe the results of the Seahawks drafting their ‘type’ of Offensive Linemen has been so bad over the years that they decided to try something new. Or maybe they were just desperate.
Speaking of trying something new… Drafting their ‘type’ of running back hasn’t worked very well either. Maybe it’s time to try someone just a little out of their wheel house. Feel like Kenneth Walker III could help spark our offense & bring some electricity to the field.
I can completely see this.
That all the numbers set in stone aren’t working any more. Kind of hoping for Travis Jones who normally I think they’d say no to a smaller program guy.
At the presser Pete said Cross is now about 315 and he thinks he will play in the 320’s.
I am very sceptical that he’ll play in the 320’s
He’s 21. He can do it. But to put on good weight is going to be a matter of serious weight room discipline.
Seriously, apart from having athletic questionmarks, this scares the heck out of me.
Why should he show that discipline?
He is #9 off the draft board. He’ll get his $23.5m anyway.
Nothing he has said tells me, that he is a reflected guy considering his situation well. He comes from one of the crap SEC programs. He is not a ND, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Michigan or BC lineman, where you get the whole personality package.
I will still give him the benefit of the doubt.
At the same time, I struggle to see him replacing Duane Brown. And if he doesn’t, the net benefit of this R1 is zero, for all intents and purposes.
I just don’t understand why you have to sit there and cross your damn fingers praying your players will fall to you.. seriously, man the f up and move up and get your guy. If we really needed that LT, then move up and take the best available in the draft. It isn’t like 2/3 of our draft picks this weekend will even been in the league in 4 years. Why will this team throw away multiple firsts on a player that they either rent or then pay a 100 million to (who end up being extremely average) but they won’t move up the damn draft board to get someone truly special on a fixed 5 year contract.
Sheldon Richardson
Jamal Adams
Need I say more.
With all the trades that happened, I don’t think there were a shortage of trade partners to trade back. My feeling is that they had a trade lined up if a player they really liked wasn’t on the board. Cross probably wouldn’t have been my first choice but honestly, I wasn’t invited to one scouting meeting. This pick kind of reminds me of when the Seahawks drafted Will Dissly, good player but couldn’t catch because he was hardly ever asked to catch the ball. He came to camp and showed he could (no doubt with some coaching tips).
Young college players want to be on the field. If not, they would buy tickets and drink beer in the stands with the rest of us. So if your college coach says this is our offence and this is the way you need to play, then that is what you work on. You also have to remember that NFL coaches are the best in the world at teaching football.
Believe me, I am no expert, but I do feel it must be easier to teach an athletic pass blocker to run block than the other way around. I’m no super excited about this pick but I am open minded about the possibilities of what Cross can become. That said, I feel he is a solid pick.
I think that’s a reasonable view. I played offensive line in a run and shoot offense in college (Butte in the 90s, pre-Rodgers). I think any offensive lineman in college, let alone the 1-2% that make it to the NFL, enjoys run blocking and smashing defenders. Pass blocking is hard work, run blocking is fun. We passed 80% of the time, but when we ran the ball, all 5 of us were happy.
There’s a difference between can’t do and wasn’t asked to do. We could run block, but no one would have ever known it.
Butte MONTANA? Please tell me you played for Bob Green… That guy is a legend
steve smith had a pretty good take on this pick and said that it takes natural ability to pass block, it is easier to refine techniques than it is to teach them, so with some refining of Cross’ techniques, he likes the pick
In the off chance my post from a few days ago was perceived to fall into the “testing doesn’t matter camp” referenced above- I am not in that camp. It’s only that a variation at the .05 level can at times turn a good tester to a bad tester, and it helps explain why some good testers are not successful in the league- they popped off a great performance – or some bad testers do ok – they had a bad day or few weeks in the window of testing. It’s not to say testing doesn’t matter it’s just acknowledging that at times players don’t perform their best when it matters most. Olympic athletes struggle with this a lot- often their best times are not in the trials or actual events.
I believe in testing and take them as valuable data. But I also recognize variance in human performance.
I am hoping a lot of teams trade into the top of the round to take QBs and leave us with little to choose from -QB wise but leaving the current quality depth at other positions.
I did not like John’s body language during last night’s presser when asked about the QB class. He was shrugging his shoulders (lots of mini shrugs) and giving off the impression to me that he wasn’t confident in the answers he was giving there (aka not confident as in he didn’t really believe it).. makes me think they are planning to take a QB if the guy is there.
I read that as “I can’t talk to you about my thoughts on this QB class because we are in the middle of the draft”
“When you are thinking Left Tackle, you are thinking pass protection…”
–Pete Carroll
Maybe pete does cause he’s not from Seattle.
Cause I don’t. I think of a guy who put people on skids and moved them around the field like they were small children whether it was run or pass.
“When I think of a Left Tackle, I think of Walter Jones…”
–Me
Seconded.
Thirded. Walter was a man among men. No holes. Entered the league that way, too.
I wouldn’t be mad with leaving the second round with LT of the foreseeable future, Pass Rusher or Linebacker, and Matt Corral.
Not sure he’s being rated highly enough based on traits. Corral should be the top rated QB. Too much focus on his “simple” offense. Very Quick release, plus arm strength, above average accuracy, great athlete. I feel like somehow group-think has clouded his evaluation. I think he’s easily worth #40, because he’s at least the equal prospect of Trey Lance or Tua.
The Cross pick is growing on me a little.
He reportedly did a 30.5 inch vertical at his pro day, which left only his 20 bench presses as a disappointing figure amongst all his measurables combined from the combine and pro day.
He’s young, 21 last November, so will gain more power.
I think we can be optimistic with his projection as a starting left tackle for the next 5 years and more.
At his size, 20 reps isn’t indicative of strength (although he does need to get stronger). It’s training and stamina. I don’t know what they do at Mississippi State but I’d suggest they don’t push their O-liners to do a lot of weights. Because at 300lbs you don’t show off ‘power’ lifting 225lbs. This is purely indicative of what his frame shows — that he hasn’t been doing a proper weight training program.
As long as he is not doing jumping jacks on a Bosu ball I will remain confident that his conditioning and strength will improve as he gets proper coaching/nutrition and matures
Watch for the Hawks to take Josh Pascal today. He’s an ideal DE for the 3-4 they’ll run.
I dunno Forrest. I like Paschal a lot but he’s no pass rusher.
I think he is a pass-rusher. He has a lot going for him. For someone that is considered a 4i or a 4-3 LE — his 10-split is elite.
They’ll pick Josh Pascal today.
It’s a little ticky-tacky, but you should report his pro day vertical which is a relatively respectable 30.5″.
Unlike 40 times, gravity is gravity, so if he can jump 30.5″, it doesn’t matter where he does it.
I don’t think he’s as average an athlete at it may seem at first.
Also, I don’t know that he’s strictly a finesse OT. We just don’t have enough information from his 2 years of starting in Leach’s ultra simplified air-raid to determine that.
The combine is apples for apples though. Did he spend every waking minute practising his vertical for pro-day? In the same environment would everyone else improve by four inches, putting his improvement into perspective? Did he practise/train to nail that exercise and if he did it now, would he be back to 26 inches?
This is why you have the combine. Everyone goes through the same experience.
I’d argue it’s equally a little ticky-tacky to pull people on calling an air-raid left tackle finesse.
Apologies. My ticky-tacky was meant as a self-own in that it’s a little ticky-tacky of me to call you out for not citing his pro day vertical.
Which is a measure of agreement with your point about the Combine being a level field as it were.
But gravity doesn’t lie and if he can jump over 30″ that means he’s reasonably explosive for his size.
I don’t love the pick but I realize they probably couldn’t get enough to justify a trade down and he was BPA on their board.
Do you suppose there’s any chance they bring Duane Brown back for one more season and start Cross on the right side?
It’s true that Cross had a poor 26-inch vertical jump (28th percentile among OL), but he also had a 112″ broad jump (91st percentile), so it’s not like he completely lacks explosion. I’d argue quite the opposite. He also had a 1.73 10-yard split (83rd percentile), which also points to a good bit of explosiveness. The same, albeit less dramatic, split is seen in his agility drills, with a 7.88 three-cone (40th percentile), but a 4.61 short shuttle (75th percentile).
Combine that with the fact that he doesn’t turn 22 until November of this year and you have to be excited by both his current ability showcased on film and his upside (especially if he can continue to grow into his frame and add another 10-15 pounds of muscle in an NFL strength and conditioning program).
Cross wasn’t one of my dream scenarios at #9, but I think I’m a lot higher on the pick than most on here and am very much optimistic about the selection. He’s a fun, young prospect at a premium position and we didn’t take someone like Penning, Lloyd, or a QB, so I consider that an absolute win.
I think it’s fair to say he is athletic and can become more explosive. Objectively, his body can and should get better with proper NFL training and nutrition. He’ll become a better athlete.
I would think the narrow base issue, along with footwork in general would be addressed by the OL coaches. I would expect a good OL coach to work with him, repetition can overcome and replace muscle memory. The quality of college OL coaches is IMO variable, they often don’t teach much beyond just the basics. It also should not be forgotten that college kids have to attend classes and that limits their football practice time. Once freed from that environment, they can go 100% football and actually improve greatly once they are pros.
Nothing we or I have said about his testing is wrong. It is what it is.
You can choose to be excited but other people don’t necessarily have to share your view
Oh, certainly not. And if we all agreed on everything all the time, nothing would be any fun!
Great content as always and looking forward to following the rest of the draft with you.
Have high confidence that Seattle will select Ole Miss OLB, Sam Williams tonight.
FWIW, I think the worst value pick of the draft so far is Houston taking Kenyon Green at 15.
And I think the best value pick is a three way tie between the Chargers taking Zion Johnson at 17, the Jets taking Jermaine Johnson at 26, and Green Bay taking Devonte Wyatt at 28.
JS mentioned that there was an opportunity to ‘move up’ that disappeared.
Thibodeaux, Ekwonu, Neal???
I’m guessing it was up to #6 to jump the Giants for Ekwonu or Neal
But maybe Carolina wanted too much
I know PC has stated it’s not a rebuild but it’s obviously one. It is tempting to compare everything to their first go around drafting Russell Okung and then Bruce Irvin etc.
But just thinking about how we’ve discussed how to start a rebuild, I remember talking about it taking longer for offensive prospects to develop than defensive. Maybe this is how they are approaching this draft and then defense and QB in 2023 with even more draft stock. We could see Lucas and Jurgens at 40 and 41 and I bet that is their plan.
I’d hope for Ojabo and Jurgens personally and then best LB at 72 and RB at 109. Go for greatness and embrace the tank.
My thoughts about the way the draft played out are that the best value would have been a wide receiver and that choice might have saved them 25 million a year if he replaced Metcalf next year.
But there are so many holes to fill now! At least it looks that way because this is really a 2 to 3 year rebuilding effort and their are holes all over the place. So they pick Cross, nothing wrong with that, they need two tackles and apparently have abandoned their previous approach of hiring veterans.
For the fan base – we saw this as the best opportunity to pick up an elite defensive end. But it didn’t turn out that way. So it’s natural to feel some disappointment. The only way they will ever get this chance again is to tank, and we all know that they won’t do that. And even if they do tank next season – they would probably use that pick on a quarterback.
So I guess they will continue to find second round defensive ends, hopefully ones who are healthy.
These next two picks will say alot about whether they are rebuilding the offense or they are trying their typical little of offense/ little bit of defense approach. And they still might invest in a veteran tackle.
I am stoked. Embrace the tank! Rookie LT ( needs weight training LOL), a retread Qb with a history of losing, no right tackle, and 2 injury prone running backs, no real plan, and a ton of hole filling to do = 2-3 win season. 2023 and 2024 will be the development years with a new quarterback and new leadership.
I think they might have moved down but the value/offer wasn’t there. 20 spots for a round 3?? That is weak sauce. Cross is young and once he gets into a pro weight room he’s going to get a lot stronger.
Hi Rob,
I am trying to sort through all of the takes on Cross and am hearing conflicting information. Three things come up regularly on him and I’m wondering if you could do a deeper dive and help clarify.
1) He is not a scheme fit for the Hawks. Can you talk more about this? I don’t pretend to understand the complexities of offensive schemes but it sounds like the main features Air Raid offense is quick passes, wider splits, pass heavy, tempo and wide zone run game. Other than pass heavy that sounds very similar to what the McVay coaching tree likes to run. For example I liked the scouting reports from Sam Gold over on FieldGulls and his take was that Cross is the best scheme fit of the top LTs because of his college experience.
2) He is a poor run blocker. This is consistent but I wonder if you could discuss the nuance between being a “mauler” vs. using a zone blocking scheme. My understanding of what the Hawks are trying to is use combo blocks and movement to create running lanes rather than the past approach of just road grading 1v1 blocks. It seems like Cross is well suited to the former using footwork and good angles rather than just raw strength. I agree that it is something that will need to be coached given lack of reps but I’m wondering what your take is on him ever getting there.
3) His testing and athleticism are average to poor. This is the one I am seeing such a wide range of opinions. Some folks are saying he is explosive and one of the most athletic LT in the draft and some the complete opposite (your take as well). I wonder if you (or someone with more free time than I have) can pull up his numbers and compare to other LTs in the pros and in the draft? To my eye he looks a little small but quick and mobile with good balance. I also don’t seem him as “weak”. I couldn’t find one example of him getting bull rushed back or thrown aside.
Anyway, I am no expert. I am just trying to better understand this guy as I will be full on rooting for him to come in and impress us day 1! Thanks for all that you do.
I feel like I’ve covered this to be fair in an hour long live stream, another video and an article. They never run the ball in the air-raid so it’s hard to properly asses his fit in Pete’s offense. And it is Pete’s offense still.
I don’t know who’s said he’s a poor run blocker. I haven’t. They barely ever ran.
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/why-explosive-traits-matter-on-the-offensive-line
Ok, so I went down a rabbit hole on his combine numbers.
I read your article (great write up btw) and looked back at his numbers.
He is above average at 40 and SS and right at average for his 10 split.
He had a 26 VJ at the combine but rejumped at his pro-day and got a 30.5 which is average.
He had a 9.3 BJ which is a little above average
He had 20 reps for BP at his pro-day (didn’t do it at the combine) which is below average
If you take his VJ rejump I get his TEF at 2.99 which is average but much better than the 2.84 you have for him in your article (if I got my math right…). It seems like his VJ was a major swing, do you take stock in his pro-day rejump?
I mean if you take these numbers, overall I would say his athleticism is about average for NFL starting LTs and comparable to some of the best
The average for all nfl tackles, for the numbers that I could find for their combine or pro day, was a 1.78 10 yard split. Cross’s 10 yard split was 1.69 according to draft scout. The range was 1.67 top 2.00.
So he is well above average in that stat.
His split was a 1.75.
The average among the top linemen is a 1.72
Close to the top then