I won’t have an opportunity to watch Jordyn Brooks tape until the conclusion of the draft. I’m eager to get started, having (wrongly) assumed that linebacker wasn’t a position worthy of this level of investment.
It’s been brought to attention that he made a stop on 15.1% of his run defense snaps in 2019, which led all linebackers in the draft. He ran a 4.53. These are positive things. We’ve talked a lot about the need to be more physical when defending the perimeter. They can’t, as I’ve said too many times (but I’ll say it again), have their linebackers being blocked by Aaron Rodgers.
It’s still a really difficult pick to justify, though.
Firstly, the investment level at the linebacker positive is reaching an obscene level. Bobby Wagner is being paid $18m a year, with a 2020 cap hit of just under $15m. K.J. Wright is still on the books on a $10m contract. That’s $25m for two linebackers alone — a huge chunk of the salary cap this year. Now they’re about to guarantee a further $10m to a third linebacker in Brooks.
It’s not just the money either. They’ve spent a first round, third round and fifth round pick on the position in the last 12 months — and yet the old guard are the presumed starters again in 2020.
At the same time, they were unwilling to pay Frank Clark or Jadeveon Clowney to bolster the pass rush. Now they’re left with a significant task of repairing that area of the team with an increasingly smaller amount of money to play with.
I’ve seen it suggested that Brooks could be a SAM — at least initially. And yet the base-defense experiment a year ago was hardly a success. It’s exploitable against the dynamic TE’s in Seattle’s division and despite having the 4.4 speed of Mychal Kendricks last year, they still struggled to defend the perimeter.
If he’s more of a long term successor to either Wagner or Wright — it’s extremely difficult to justify an investment on this scale to secure a position like this. Especially when there are gaping holes on the roster that remain unaddressed.
As I asked yesterday — what’s the plan?
While the Cardinals have added DeAndre Hopkins and Isaiah Simmons and the 49ers Javon Kinlaw and Brandon Aiyuk, the Seahawks run the serious risk of losing their top defensive lineman. They’ve only signed journeymen as a counter. They haven’t made any significant additions to the offense apart from a 35-year-old tight end who had to choose between one more season or moving into a broadcasting booth.
The Seahawks have collected offensive linemen — bringing a mix of backups, busts and retired players in for a big competition. They’ve zapped cap space re-signing their restricted free agents and their fringe, replacement level players.
Their biggest off-season move so far is to add a thumping middle linebacker.
None of this is a review of Jordyn Brooks as a player. Let’s wish him the best as he starts his Seahawks career. Hopefully he goes on to be a terrific player for this team.
In terms of moving the needle towards winning a Super Bowl, however — how can anyone say the moves they’ve made so far has made that any more likely? You could even reasonably argue that if they lose Clowney they are worse.
That makes today a huge day. The Seahawks have two second round picks at #59 and #64. They won’t pick again until #101. Trading down from #59 and #64 feels pretty futile if it’s with the intention of adding to the seven selections they have. What are you going to get in return? Some day three fodder?
This team needs contributors in the front end of the draft at serious positions of need. They still require D-line help (EDGE and DT). They should attempt to come out of this class with a receiver and a running back. It would be wise to at least try and find an offensive tackle with the potential to develop as a prospective starter.
I wouldn’t hold out much hope on any of the top runners lasting to #59 — or even into a range where you can move up. The value now, in the second round, for Jonathan Taylor, D’Andre Swift and J.K. Dobbins is too good. Clyde Edwards-Helaire going at #32 could and should launch a run on the position.
It’s possible Cam Akers will be there when they pick. A receiver like Bryan Edwards could be available in the late second. It’ll be interesting to see where Chase Claypool lands (keep an eye on New England at #37).
There are still offensive linemen available — such as Josh Jones, Robert Hunt, Prince Tega Wanogho and Lucas Niang.
The end of the second round has always felt like the best place to target the D-line. Josh Uche and Julian Okwara are still available — and so are most of the other ‘big name’ defensive linemen that we correctly identified during the college season wouldn’t go as early as many expected (Gross-Matos, Epenesa).
Darrell Taylor has been a hot name in the last 24 hours and if nothing else — he would provide a heap of potential working the edge.
As expected — none of the defensive tackles being touted for the late first actually came off the board. The Seahawks will have opportunities to make a solid investment there.
And while they haven’t added any new picks so far — how many of you would like to see them commit to someone by moving up in round two? Given the success of Jarran Reed, Tyler Lockett and D.K. Metcalf — it should encourage people if they do move up to get ‘their guy’ in the second frame. They have a spare fourth rounder to play with. Yet their inability to trade out of #27 limits their ability to move down.
Finally, a couple of notes. It’s now been confirmed that I finished third in the Huddle Report this year. I also got 28 out of 32 first round players right — more than anyone else. Considering how many people enter the Huddle Report each year (and it includes all of the ‘big name’ analysts) — I’m very happy with that.
I also joined Brandan Schulze last night to reflect on Seattle’s surprising first round pick…
Is it possible that they where caught off guard with the trade up from the Packers?
I don’t think so.
I think they genuinely really like and wanted Brooks.
No issue with that at all. Would’ve been fine with that if they didn’t have so many glaring needs on the offense that they haven’t addressed.
100% Agree. In the interview, John briefly mentioned that they were concerned with the trade up but that “their” guy was still there after the move…
Makes me really think Pete wants to keep the 4-3 this year (w/ more athletic-better tackling LB) then switch to nickle.
I fear that this pick means they want Bobby Wagner to get some competition two years from now.
Over the cap puts his cap hit in 2022 as 3.7M dead money and 16.6M cap hit.
Watched the post-R1 interview and came away with the following notes:
PC interjected – “one thing I would add to try and help you guys… I think the work that was done in free agency, to pick players and put ’em where they fit into us, allows us to be in this draft and take guys that bring us maybe the highest end-opportunity because we’re not stuck at having to take a player at one particular position or fit into a little shoe box.”
“…we’re in it (this draft) to try and take guys who impact us because they’re special players, and not necessarily to just fill a need and try to hit a need”. Sounds like they are more focused on upside, grit and rebuilding the speed/intimidation factor a bit more than anticipated.
Came away wondering if we’ve maybe analyzed holes too much and PCJS strategic approach maybe not enough? They seem convinced they have a plan. And they seem genuinely happy, if incomplete.
Later, PC called Brooks “really a strong pick by us”. PC & coaches/evaluators really, REALLY liked his combine interview. “He kicked ass… really, really well done”. PCJS clearly think they found a ‘grit’ guy. Seems like more effusive praise than normal, esp re attitude & approach. They seem convinced this helps faster/meaner quotient.
PCJS seemed truly excited. Kind of amped-up, even by PC standards. Quite a contrast to the last couple of post-round-one interview sessions. They were in a very good, playful mood. And PC noted a couple of times he liked both the pick AND they way the board has fallen so far.
JS commented how much they continue to like Barton. Feels like PCJS see Barton as a core guy, and Brooks adds another core guy. JS referred to Barton’s approach and urge to excel *twice* in specific, anecdotal terms. For whatever reason, they are focused on LB position more than one would have thought. They appear confident in their plan here, if still incomplete.
No mention of DE or Edge in particular. Could be b/c those picks coming up. They both seemed surprisingly comfortable with existing makeup of team, at least when compared to much of what is heard via Internet and broadcast punditry. Added to pvs JS commentary about needing to do better w/ pass rush implies…
– expecting 2nd/3d yr jump from certain players?
– evaluating Irvin/Mayowa differently than many pundits?
– not done w/ Clowney/Griffen/trades yet?
– have their eye on one or more draft targets for pass rush and like board progress so far?
– throwing hands up and admitting defeat? (doubt this, just thought-streaming)
I think they liked him and probably planned on early 2nd on a trade down that didn’t come. I will also say, I think they are bringing in all the OL with NFL experience as they don’t have time to mess with grooming OL during Covid-19. I took Madibuike at #59 and traded back and got Davon Hamilton, Dillon, A Robinson, Tyler Johnson, Alton Robinson, Trevis Gibson, and I like Broderick Washington late. Question is, can we find a trade partner….I had to pony up a 2021 2nd rounder to get the extra picks out of NE…I like Darrel Taylor too….stay positive!
Or, is it possible they got played by the Packers?
I don’t think they got played by the Packers. They told the Packers what they would accept ands then the team in front agreed to the same deal. So of course GB takes that deal. It hurts badly because the fourth that they would have acquired could have been the pick that they used to move up in the second round. Now that doesn’t seem likely.
Congrats Rob on getting 28 of the 32. Thats amazing.
I think you’re right they probably did not get played. Still, I think the Hawks could have improved their position by making the Pack a better offer than Miami rather than just taking Brooks at 27. Even if all they did was trade 27+144 for 30+136, it would have been better (gain 8 slots in R4 and live to trade again from 30). They had to believe that not only is a) Brooks worth the 27 (as a player, as a fit for their strategy and in lieu of someone else + extra draft capital) AND b) that someone else was interested in Brooks around the same level (Baltimore, preferring Brooks to Queen?). They know their world better than I do, but from the outside it sure seems like they could have gotten him further down and gained some much needed additional capital. (This logic, of course, all goes before considering Rob’s argument that the strategy is flawed from the get-go).
I agree that they could have feared that BAL wanted Brooks but you would think that they would have had Queen ranked closely to Brooks as a fallback if he wasn’t there at 30.
Quick correction: they did not have to believe there was a risk BAL would take Brooks (else why offer to trade to 30 in the first place). Question remains, why not sweeten the offer to GB? Or make a deal with others (CIN, IND, DET)?
They would have to believe that a) Brooks is worth the 27 (as a player, as a fit for their strategy, and in lieu of someone else + extra draft capital) AND b) that someone in the low 30s they would trade behind might take him.
Maybe there were no takers in the 30s at any price, but GB was obviously trading. Maybe they ran out of time. But why not make GB a better offer that improves your position?
Probably bc the price was already so cheap (4th rounder). To sweeten the deal, it may be a 5th. Then it’s like….., seriously?
As yes they really swindled us out of drafting Jordan Love.
They simply got a better offer from Miami.
Maybe, but it isn’t like they’re just deciding who to pick on the spot. That high in the draft all they have to do is look at their board and pick the highest guy. The bigger question is why in the heck would they have an ILB that high on their main board? With all the holes on this team it boggles the mind.
Its true that they aren’t just choosing who to draft with, but if they take a 5th from GB instead of a 4th, it would have given them to try to trade out of the first. I am surprised that a team in the top of round 2 didn’t want to trade back in to have a fifth year option on whoever they are targeting.
Just want to say…I was living for the comment section on here last night. Looking forward to another night of fireworks.
I was banned from Field Gulls for making a sarcastic (and non-offensive) comment about the negative overreaction of one of their mods during last season and questioning why they deleted my comment. It was fun to be back in an environment when people can (respectfully) go at each other with some vim and vigor and not be walking on eggshells. Feels like a much more free flowing and laid back environment around these parts.
The Brooks pick really was classic PC/JS. I saw it and was dumbfounded. I felt like the world was ending. And now it’s had more time to set in, I’ve been able to learn more about him, and it almost…makes sense? Haha…seriously, they do this to us every year. Cracks me up.
Reaction to a PCJS draft always reminds me of the end of Rosemary’s Baby. Most of us react like Mia Farrow did at first, with shock and horror. Then you gradually warm up to the idea of it….
You must be my age to pop out that reference Saxon. Nice.
I posted a breakdown of his Oklahoma game at the end of the last thread. His run defense is overwhelmingly the biggest positive of the game. He recognizes the play quickly and gets to the gap before the running back, often forcing them to change direction. Given the nature of the mismatch in that game though, those runs would often still break for medium-big gains. He also has a surprisingly large tool box to get around blockers when he recognizes the run. For some reason though, those same moves didn’t translate when he was blitzing.
Rob, I notice that you didn’t mention cornerback as a need going into day 2. What is the likelihood that they look at someone like Bryce Hall today in round 3? Drafting Hall could allow Brooks to play on early downs, as hes a strong run stopper and can blitz as well, and they can take him off in favour of Hall on obvious passing downs in order to see more nickel looks this season.
I think they traded for Dunbar to avoid drafting an outside corner. I thought they would draft a nickel. Now I think they’ll continue in base.
Jon Reid Penn State could be a nice Round 3.
I believe heavy front 7 with a few offensive weapons sprinkled in. Madibuike is huge from my perspective as we need push up the middle and gap shooters so regardless of the outside rush, they can’t just comfortably step up in the pocket for 2 seconds….also, Davon Hamilton 80’s to 101
I’ll be surprised if they draft a corner early. It’s not a special class or anything for CBs (Shaq’s class was) and they generally pick up corners later.
That is an absolutely fantastic achievement, Rob – I am sure I can speak for the whole community here and say we’re so proud of you! This just reinforces how lucky we are to have access to your top quality journalism.
+1
Congrats on the top 3 huddle finish Rob! You had this draft nailed in so many ways. The Seahawks offseason is truly perplexing and hard to defend. Let’s hope things become more clear soon!
I’m frustrated because I feel like if I’d got at least some angle on Seattle’s pick this would’ve been a tremendous draft season for this site. I’m torn now, between being pleased with the way I read the draft class to determine where players would go and completely whiffing on Seattle’s pick.
Yeah, I’m sure that is maddening for you Rob. JS/PC are so unpredictable it seems, yet they are consistently unpredictable. You still have proven you understand the league and the needs. PC/JS are just quirky.
Wasn’t just you Rob I listened to ESPN Seattle last night after the pick, and the guys said they had read 25 mock drafts and no one even mentioned this kid’s name. No one saw this one coming.
I was there also, but flip that around glass half full, perhaps they kept it quiet so others didn’t get on board. His profile read exactly like Bobby in 2012.
I think this has everything to do with the weird nature of this off-season. If there had been more in the way of pro days and such, I think Brooks would have come to your attention more.
And as for choosing an LB, there’s simply no way to have predicted that.
Rob, I understand why you’d be frustrated but regardless of their pick, it’s still been a tremendous draft season on the site. The interviews, video mocks, countless articles are oozing in quality content and I cannot get enough. I’m a daily visitor to the site and it’s become my go to site for Seahawks content. I’d bet top dollar if Brooks was able to do full combine testing then he would’ve fully been on your radar and discussed here plenty.
Their obvious need is to find help at DE/Edge, but Pete has always mentioned how he wants to stop the run. Don’t be shocked if DT is the next pick for the Seahawks.
Well sure. I’ve been mocking a DT to Seattle in R2 for a while.
To be fair everyone in the country whiffed on this pick
Congrats on the huddle report, Rob. Well done!
Surgical post, wish I could disagree. I hope Brooks does well and he’s a rockstar BAMF.
Even if he is, the capital allocation here lowers rather than raises the odds of rings near term.
Especially in contrast with the progress of division + conference rivals…
Well done Rob, you got it right with a lot of players like Andrew Thomas, Xavier Mckinney etc.
So many others just seem to engage in groupthink.
I’m really pleased with that to be honest. It’ll give me the confidence next year to back my own views. Thomas always looked like a top-five pick. McKinney’s a 4.6 runner. The media analysts were a long way off this year.
Its crazy how many of these guys you get right year after year despite the main group think saying otherwise. Youve called Reagor, Aiyuk, Ruiz, CEH, and many others throughout the entire process.
It just goes to show how maddeningly unpredictable the Seahawks are in the first round.
Rob nailed 28 of 32 picks, that’s unheard of. It shows not only how well he evaluates players compared to the groupthink in the mainstream media, but also shows that he understands player fit, cultural fit, and trends in different franchises.
He’s spent years writing almost exclusively about the Seahawks – and they’re still the one team in the league that threw him a complete curveball.
I’m excited to hear your analysis on Brooks after some film study, Rob. I’m slowly getting more on board with the pick but I still wonder why they wouldn’t grab Willie Gay Jr. instead. Perhaps the character red flags on Gay scared away the Seahawks because the physical comp of B Wagz and Gay is uncanny.
When I write a piece on Brooks, possibly tonight if I get time to watch his stuff, I know I will be able to find the positives.
What I won’t be able to do is justify the investment at LB while so many other positions remain inadequate.
I see the Brooks pick as the end of the road for KJ, sadly. But 10 m is a bit much when you factor in Bobby’s contract.
Does anyone see a possibly of a team trading draft stock for Wright instead out cutting him outright?
Based on their press conference, KJ isn’t going anywhere this year.
Yes, but he’s off the books next year. And then Seattle will have Brooks ready to fill that gap and provide competition and speed at an important position.
Why is Seattle such a low pressure environment Rob
KJ can still play though he’s nowhere as good as he used to be. If the guy is the real deal, it is a need filled 1 year in advance.
Well I guess the positive is they went defense with the first pick
Here’s to hoping PCJS trade up given the cost seems low – quality over quantity.
This. Unfortunately, trading future picks is worthless. Will there even be college football this year?
The morning after….. Now that I have had some time to digest the pick, I’m feeling better about it. Pete has to have a way in which he plans to use his speed and aggressiveness in a way that we aren’t considering. There is no way he was picked to play ILB/Mike.
Rob, you often talk about how the Seahawks like “traits” in players. Brooks has speed. He is physical. He apparently also has really long arms. Does he have the traits to be used as a pass rusher? He seems to have suddenness, and based on his highlight tape, he looks like someone who can get after the QB. He said in an interview that he played OLB up until his senior year, and moved inside because of team needs.
Not Rob, but he has impressive pressure when rushing the passer. In the game against Oklahoma those traits didnt really show, but that might to do more with Hurts escapability. He has some really nifty moves for a LB.
I think they see him as an answer to their poor tackling and poor perimeter run play.
This.
Agreed. And I wonder if they assessed this problem as more critical than the pass rush for now, esp given the market for rushers. Not a lot of need to pass if teams can just run it at you all day and the score is always close.
If that’s the case, this could prove to be a good pick. Their inability to get a stop on 3rd down was maddening… almost as maddening as their inability to generate a pass rush. Yes, QBs could sit in the pocket for too long, but they also got slashed way too often by opposing RBs. I can only think that with the advanced analytics used by NFL coaches, the Seahawks see something in Brooks that they think helps solve a problem.
I think it was Pete in the post pick interview that mentioned his use in college to spy the QB, I wonder if JS/PC think they need a faster, better tackling spy on the field with all the mobile QBs entering the league recently.
Good morning, everyone. I have been a reader since about 2013, but this is my first post. Rob, congratulations on everything this year. Honestly, as I was keeping up with the picks last night I was smiling a bit thinking, “Wow, I’m pretty sure after everything that Rob’s mock had most of these picks absolutely correct.” Like everyone else, I am shocked by the pick, which is typical, but all we can do is be hopeful. It has been a blast reading all of these articles and comments over the year. What a blessing this community is for all of us.
Really nailed the draft this year Rob! Solid work.
I mean this in the best way, it’s a tad of irony that you pegged almost every R1 player correctly and matched over a third (!) and only big miss was the Seahawks.
I can’t speak for you, but this pick feels like a betrayal of all the analysis and knowledge developed on their needs and types of players they go after.
Immediately after the pick I felt like I’d let everyone down. To not even discuss the player they drafted was not good enough. But then who among us saw LB in round one? Even so, it was disappointing that I didn’t raise him.
Yet I don’t think it betrays any analysis or knowledge though. Brooks didn’t test apart from the forty at the combine. So it was impossible to get the needed data for him. Had he run a 4.15 short shuttle, for example, we would’ve definitely talked about him.
Rob, you should not feel bad! The lack of testing made it impossible. Just goes to show how much ‘behind the scenes” stuff goes into a draft pick. There are still many picks to go!
+1
+1. Impossible task
Don’t feel that way at all, you didn’t let us down, this is a fantastic blog with great analysis. I honestly wish they off season had gone as you had outlined. Now we will see how their plan works out.
Hey Rob,
First time to comment. Just wanted to say thanks on the outstanding content you’ve been putting out. I was and still am a bit shocked at the pick, mostly because he was hardly on your radar and I believe your research on Hawks picks to be the most reliable over the years.
You hit the nail on the head in terms of the most concerning part of it all with this comment:
“In terms of moving the needle towards winning a Super Bowl, however — how can anyone say the moves they’ve made so far has made that any more likely? You could even reasonably argue that if they lose Clowney they are worse.”
With teams around us constantly improving, it’s hard to imagine the hawks have kept up unless John and Pete pull another rabbit out of their hats, which fortunately for us, isn’t uncommon. Still concerns me about the future of this team. Thanks again!
Everything I’ve read about him points to him being an excellent player. But like you, Rob, I am struggling to see the purpose behind the pick. They drafted 2 LBs last year and there are much bigger needs. Day 2 is shaping up to be very important for the Hawks.
Look at this gem of a write up I found. Sounds exactly like the comments about brooks and similar comments by the community about him. Everyone wanted Kendricks and thought that Wagner didn’t stick out enough.
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/draft-spotlight-bobby-wagner-lb-utah-st
He also played a lot of olb which just adds some speed to our LB core. The one thing (besides pass rush) that I thought about the niners was that they had some fast LB’s. I feel the pick was a reach, but that was our guy. People said trust pete and norton in their evaluation of LB’s when we picked Bobby, so now we have to trust they found a gem.
Wow! Thanks for the link to the BWagner college write up. Great to look back and laugh at all the “experts” trashing BWags! Makes me feel much better about this pick!
Again, that was Kip’s view.
My view was Bobby Wagner was a first round talent. 100%.
One advantage that wags had was his ability to perform at a pro day. I heard brooks was hurt at the combine, so who’s to say he doesn’t run in the 4.4’s at his pro day. Also, I read that he was the top rated lb for the majority of the year until he had an injury and also a subpar Oklahoma game.
And in a year where training camp could be cut short, lb is a position that is a lot easier to plug and play versus wr/ol/qb/etc. I have grown to like this pick if he can be Bobby 2.0
Well, if he can be every bit as good as Wagner (multi-year All Pro 1st Team), he’ll be 100% worth it. Problem is, that’s such a hard projection.
Last year, Collier was treated as the second coming of Bennett, which if true, would be worth it. As of now, that’s to be determined (I’m not writing him off after 1 year where he missed training camp).
whatever happened to Kip?
Wow, that’s a great find right there…very interesting read on Wagner before they drafted him! Just look at this:
Positives:
Fast
Nose for the football, tackle machine
Can slip off blocks when pass rushing from the line
Scheme diverse experience
Effective in man coverage
Intelligent
Pursues well
No major, glaring flaws
Negatives:
Small school competition
Boring tape- would struggle to fill a highlight reel
Could be more aggressive / he lets the play come to him too much
Finesse player, not very physical
Very slightly undersized / struggles to get off blocks
Great Job on the Draft this year Rob. A quick thought on the Brooks pick. Obviously I am not an expert. I am wondering if you can look at this in a similar light to how other teams treat QB. Keep investing in the position until it is fixed because it is so integral to how we play. Wagner had a down year (for him, which is still elite) and that may have been due to the lack of speed around him. Maybe brooks comes in, helps defend the perimeter, shores up our tackling (which was an issue), locks down the position for years (he has been compared to bobby). Again, it does not address a glaring need, but I had them (based on your work) taking either a running back or O-Line early and then D-Line in the second. RB and O-Line may have been strengths of the draft but they are position we have invested a lot in lately.
So in a way they did what we thought they would, tapped into the strength as they saw it early and then potentially go for need in the second. Just a thought.
I think they took a guy they really like because they believe they had a great free agency.
I don’t share that optimism.
Jordyn Brooks would have been a wonderful pick after trading down and picking in the 70s or 80s. Now, they once again massively overpaid on a guy they obviously like. Whatever that means… Collier, Blair and Burton where not rookies inspiring much faith in that regard.
Perhaps, they really think, they can game the system by creating a D built solely on physical guys. This will not work. In R1, you can get athletic hard hitters with high football IQ.
The NFL is all about competitive margins, and you cannot game the system by drafting players a couple of rounds over asking price. This pick and Collier in 2019 will haunt this franchise for years to come.
They have two good old lbs. No good young lbs. They filled a huge 2021 need and he can likely contribute right away. LB is probably the biggest hole on the 2021 roster, good to draft a year a way and plug this year with vets.
Pretty hard to get excited about what Jordyn Brooks can be when so far this off season & day1 of the draft have put us in a dogfight for the bottom of the division. Not to mention Andy Reid adds a piece to the reigning champs that made their offense virtually unstoppable. Pretty disappointing
I am not concerned about the position with 1st pick though due to limited options, just want them to hit the pick. Wishing success to Brooks.
Anyways rookies aren’t expected to contribute much this season due to lack of off season, not much anyways from Hawks picks in the 1st year.
So happy I found this site – – what a great congregation of knowledgable/passionate Hawks fans. And I see all these old names from espn and TNT boards of days old.
I’m always optimistic this time of year – I feel pretty good about my NFL knowledge, but make no claims to know the college players – so don’t have a POV over whether Brooks is better than Queen or other LB prospects. Agree w those who’ve noted our lack of speed on D, and esp so at the LB position.
If you look at our D, some pieces are coming together. Diggs is a player, and he can run. Dunbar, by all accounts, is an upgrade, who can run. I think Blair flashed; is a hitter.
Clearly – we need to re-sign Clowney, and/or address pass rush in some meaningful way – but let’s see what the next few days and weeks bring before we get totally up in arms about that. Off-season far from over.
Hate the pick not the player, but whatever.
Excited for Day 2. Maybe Matt Peart and Zach Moss…
🙁
And congrats, Rob. Not surprised.
That’s where I’m at – considering this pick; I’m actually fine punting on OT until much later. I’m thinking 2 of the next 3 picks are DL and the 3rd is an offensive weapon.
*Im fine punting on OT because that would make at least 2 of the top 4 picks “replacements for the future.” Just can’t justify that when you have an elite QB who will be 32 this year.
The urgency to fix things is very frustrating.
Conversely, Considering their 1st round history, if Brokns turns into a good player, how much can we really complain?
Doesn’t make us right, but on same page, in same corner.
Pinning my Day 2 hopes on 1 of Akers, Davis, Zuniga, Claypool.
Thoughts on plan:
If they had cut/traded Wright, McDougald, even Griffin (all 3 out of contract, 2021; replacements on roster), I would understand recent decisions/moves including trading for Dunbar, Diggs, drafting Brooks. Instead of culling the roster and reallocating resources to fix the pass rush, they’ve doubled down on redundancy.
A brilliant understudy doesn’t make the play any better.
Only Brooks will be an “understudy” as you put it. Dunbar and Diggs are starters. Ugo and Blair would be the “understudies.”
28 out of 32 is amazing. I compared your mock to a national media mock throughout the draft, checking off the picks as they fell so I already knew how accurate yours was. Great Job. In terms of our pick, I recall you comparing another linebacker in the draft to Bobby Wagner and asking if we could draft Bobby Wagner, wouldn’t you like to do that? Yes! I hope that’s what we’ve done. It might be short term over spending on one position group, but KJ is probably in his last year and Bobby is getting older. We needed to improve toughness and speed. This was a surprise, but in hindsight, we might have expected they’d look at this position.
Rob I have though about this quite a bit and it is starting to make some sense. First, as they pointed out in the press conference, they have little faith in the ability of OL where they draft to be NFL ready due to the further reduction of practice time (especially padded) under the new CBA and now with the potential corona virus disruption. So they have gone for journeyman OL players who are cheap and probably at least know their assignments.
Second, as much as they would like to have a pass rush, they may believe that the biggest overall weakness in the defense and cheapest to improve was second level pursuit and tackling. If they can fix those problems, even without improving the pass rush much, the defense will improve noticeably simply by reducing explosive plays. The safeties and LB’s need to get there quick and wrap up to prevent that 4 yard run from turning into a 9-20 yarder. Once they shored up the safety play (which is probably why they were running so much base last year)the next step for that are the LB’s and as of 2 days ago it was a mixture of experienced rookies who were out of position a lot and aging veterans who were out of position possibly due to covering for the poor safety play. Speed and wrapping up well covers up a lot of errors.
Third, as we have seen stud pass rushers who can also stuff the run are rare and expensive. Even the ones who just aren’t really good at it cost boatloads in free agency and , there wasn’t much worth drafting yet as the progress of the board showed.
Third, I would argue that it is possible that they might have actually improved the pass rush by adding Irvin and Mayowa and whomever else they get by the time camp starts. Both have speed off the edge which is something they didn’t have last year and both know their responsibilities in the scheme and Irvin can play it pretty well. Losing Clowney will be tough but they may know something about Collier we don’t and obviously have not lost their faith in Reed. So they may very well be thinking that the can make improvements by tweaking the scheme. Sure a good 5t inside out guy would be ideal but in the absence of one, they are probably looking at altering the scheme to take advantage of what they have as opposed to what they want. One thing about Pete is that he is self reflective. Putting Big Red Bryant at DE was one weird move but damn if it didn’t work. You can scheme pass rush as long as the players know what they are supposed to do and you have the time to burn the assignments into the players’ heads.
Sure there is a lot uncertainty, but to me at least, the team looks better as a whole than at this time last year and they still have the draft, trades, and some free agents available to shore up what they are going to do. Maybe the horse will learn to sing after all.
Agree or disagree with the PCJS approach, this assessment fits pretty well with their observed comments and attitude in the post R1 press conference.
Congratulations for your stupendous showing with the Huddle Report, Rob. I am a year round reader here, since soon after you started and it is surprising to me that you haven’t been charmed away from your day job by a major sports conglomerate.
Congrats on 28 of 32 Rob. Very, very impressive!
I could not agree any more with your take on the progress of the offseason thus far. It’s extremely puzzling and to a degree maddening. Watching the D last year it was readily apparent that they badly lacked speed so I am at least pleased that Brooks by all accounts is fast/quick.
Congratulations, Rob! The national guys are starting to realize what we’ve known for some time, that you are really good at draft analysis. We are all fortunate that you are a Seahawks fan.
Today will be fun.
Could Brooks replace KJ Wright this year? According to OverTheCap.com, Wright’s cap number is $10 million and cutting him would save $7.5 million for 2020. If they use that to add Clowney or Everson Griffin, you just got faster at LB with sideline to sideline speed and pass rush flexibility (which has been a need for some time). They didn’t seem too keen on keeping Wright last year and his 2 year deal was more of a one year deal with a club option for a second year (and it worked so other teams didn’t see LB as a need heading into the draft).
Alternatively, what if they add Julian Okwara today? He’s an ideal LEO, but as we saw with Irvin in the playoffs against Atlanta, could be a liability in the run. But, if you add Brooks outside as a run spy behind him, that might cover the liability a bit.
If they add a penetrating DT in the 2nd, Amik Robertson at nickel and resign Clowney or add Griffin, this team will have a lot of options.
I think they have a plan.
Would love to keep KJ, wonder if he’d entertain a restructure or more guaranteed money in exchange for a lower cap hit.
I don’t think it’ll happen this year. They mentioned KJ a number of times in their post-draft interview. KJ’s been a pretty loyal foot soldier for this team for a long time – I don’t think he’s the type of player they would cut late in the offseason.
Had they cut KJ early and given his money to an edge rusher I’d say this pick and the offseason made a lot of sense. But alas.
As is, seems like a luxury pick when they have some enormous holes. Really pigeonholed into getting DL, DT, RB with their next 4 picks. And it may mean passing on a great WR and OT class.
Based on their reactions, they were excited You could tell last year they weren’t overly enthused about Collier. I would speculate that they valued the 5th yr option. I would say also, I just my untrained eyes, that he probably had a hard time keeping offense lineman off of him since the defense line at Texas Tech was not terribly good. I think if we keep him clean That we may see why the Seahawks valued him so highly. He was the star on that defense, if you’re an opposing team you will absolutely do your best to neutralize them. Hope for the best. Let’s get Raekwon and DaVon Hamilton. Think how much better this pic looks if we have Clowney and Griffin. Brooks would have open space to use his speed and instincts
Neutralize him that is..
If we got Raquan Davis and Davon Hamilton with 59 and 64 I’d feel like it was a pretty successful first two rounds. Unfortunately i think it very unlikely.
another shocker, reminds me of the Irvin pick, and that worked out pretty well. After doing some research I don’t hate it, however the highlights i watched he seemed to do a lot of catching and wrapping around the waist VS crushing hits we all love to bring down ball carriers.
To me Brooks is pick #34 that’s where they were (supposedly) planning to target him before GB jumped ahead and neutralized our trade partner Indy.
They had no choice but to pick at #27 rather than losing out the player. They can’t pick a different player just because it is Rd 1 as 27-45 are all similar values per Rob
Not exactly. GB was the trade partner, then they got a better deal.
I think Indy wanted to trade with us to get Love, gbay jumped us and snagged him. Hence our trade falling through last minute
Based on Pete and John’s post draft press conference, I’m not sure there is a plan for this year. This offseason, to me, most resembles 2010, where the goal was literally to just bring in bodies to see where people could play.
When asked about where Brooks would play, the answer was basically, “We’ll bring him in and see.” which flies in the face of what John and Pete have done in the past.
The only thing that makes sense to me at this point is that Seattle has identified players that are talented (in their eyes, by their “process” as JS said) and brought them in to compete. I don’t feel like there is a vision for this roster right now. Just an effort to inject the roster with players that they think will fit.
It’s like having writers block but still having deadlines. Sometimes you throw ideas at the wall and see what sticks. And that’s what this offseason feels like.
To extend my metaphor a bit, Jordyn Brooks is an awesome character that doesn’t really fit the story they are writing, but they want to write him in and see where the story goes. It’s not a great metaphor but it’s how I make sense of it in my brain.
We still have another two days to see if things become clearer, but I just cannot see a vision of this roster based on these moves.
Seriously – this may be the best post I have read in a long time. You’re absolutely right. It does feel like 2010 – except in this scenario they have a franchise QB in his prime that totally masks the roster deficiencies. I’m all for BPA and I hope they’re right that Brooks was the BPA.
Excellent post. This is exactly what’s in my head but I’ve been unable to articulate like you have.
The attitude with the front office resembles that of a team starting from scratch. And that’s where I get frustrated. Win Forever is nonsense when it comes to NFL teams – it’s a great philosophy for life. It’s nonsense in the NFL because you have windows of opportunity. RW may play until he is 40 but that doesn’t mean he will perform like he does now. Is Pete planning on coaching until he’s 80? Or does he only have a few years left?
I don’t say this to take a shot at Pete and his philosophy, but it’s not realistic. I love it from a culture building perspective, but it does not tie in well at the current moment of where this team stands.
I’m glad you caught that snippet about “we will see where he fits in.” Like…WTH? How do you not have a plan for your first round pick – especially since it’s a guy you allegedly have been targeting and think was the best player available? Hopefully it’s just coach speak, but recent history has not inspired a lot of confidence.
The earlier massive draft hits all seemed to be guys with immense upside and clear plans on what they were going to be. They assigned that vision to the player and allowed coaches to mold them. That’s tough to do with a “well let’s see what happens” approach.
So, just to offer a small ray of optimism… I actually think this has been Seattle’s philosophy in general, it’s just they usually use this language for their Day 3 picks.
Chancellor was not a starter his first year
KJ was drafted because he flashed pass rush ability
Irvin was drafted to play LEO
Justin Britt was drafted to play RT
Lockett was taken as a Return Specialist
Frank Clark was initially a bigger DE, more 5-Tech size
Carson was a “We’ll see what he can do pick”
Sherman didn’t start until injury forced their hand
Wilson was not expected to Start right away
Dissly was a blocking TE
All of these guys grew into roles once Pete and John saw what they could do that was more than they may have initially planned. I think their open mind has historically been their strength. But the difference is that (with the exception of Clark) all of those guys were drafted to fill a weak spot in the roster and address a team need. This is the first time where their roster construction seems based around the idea that “They’re talented and we’ll figure it out in camp”, roster holes be damned. And that’s why I think they are lacking vision. It’s almost like they don’t know what problem to solve and have decided to just acquire guys they like and then see what happens.
I was hoping that everyone was wrong who said the Seahawks didn’t have a plan. But they (and you) were right. No plan other than to bring in bodies and see what happens. A recipe for mediocrity, not excellence. I’m very disappointed.
Well said John.
These moves indicate they don’t feel they are close to getting over the top. So if that’s the case, why haven’t they been playing the young players to see what they’ve got? Why not throw them into the fire and live with their mistakes and chalk it up to growing pains like they did with their young core in the early PC days?
And this pick is a serious indictment of Cody Barton, but also their evaluation of him. What in the world happened with this guy?
They traded up for him in the 3rd. And in camp, I’ve never heard them be so glowing in their praise….”knows all 3 positions immediately…never seen a guy take to the playbook so fast….impact player…” then to only let him see the field on ST’s for long stretches and then when you do play him do things like this…
https://twitter.com/JacsonBevens/status/1206314710485725184
It all seems very odd.
I’m still a believer in Barton, I just don’t think he’s a SAM (which is where he played most last year). I think he’s a WILL and KJ has that spot locked down. Norton also seems predisposed to veterans over rookies, because they better know his scheme.
I think Barton will be fine and we’ll like the pick once KJ either slows down or leaves. He’s just another one of these picks that does not have a clear path to starting.
And you’re right, why pay max value for KJ and Bobby and also invest high draft capital in the successors that aren’t playing? Put them on the field right away and see what they can do.
If I was JS I would be shopping both Bobby and KJ, but that’s not how this front office thinks.
Agree.
Easiest explanation: They have no confidence in Barton, Amadi, Collier, BBK, Green, Blair, even Griffin(s).
I don’t think it’s as simple as lack of talent on defense. However, I do think the lack of DL talent is affecting the aging/slowing LB unit and the young/average secondary.
Need more juice esp. on the DL.
Good theories on this thread. That non-play by Barton is embarrassing. The one that was to come by Rogers was even worse.
Maybe they are BSing about keeping KJ? and we’ll see how he fits means he could be the Will after cutting KJ the free up cap space?
I don’t know I’m at a loss on the plan like everyone else. I’ve been saying for weeks LB was a big need, but not Rd1, and not if you are still carrying KJs cap hit.
Out of principle – I hope they are not BSing about keeping KJ. I think KJ should have been cut, but he’s earned the right to be treated in a respectful manner. It would be terrible to wax poetic about KJ’s role this year, only to cut him. That would not sit well with veterans on the team.
Not just “talented.” Gritty, tough, love football, no quit, etc. Although maybe that’s what you mean by Seahawk “talented”….
I was as surprised as anyone, but we got the best second level run defender in the draft for a defense that was slow and couldn’t stop the run. And we are in a division where we face an elite running attack (49ers), spread/jet sweep scheme (Rams), and running QB (AZ). He is also an awesome blitzer which we need to do more of since our front 4 is not elite. It also gives us cap flexibility to cut or restructure KJ this year and even Bobby next year if he keeps declining to more wisely allocate cap resources and bolster other areas such as pass rush. The strategy makes sense to me.
I am not going to post any results but the simulator is being a real tease this morning.
Thank you.
A big part of the reason I try not to post the day of a loss is the negativity.
Rob and a few others – I apologize for my negativity last night (especially those I insulted – I am ashamed – though I believe Taylor has HOF potential and our guy has good potential).
The reason I quit Twitter and a few other social media outlets is because of the very negativity a special place like this blog does not adhere to. Then I go and screw some of it up. Again, I’m sorry. You guys here are special and I lurk for a lot of the year and don’t always post – but appreciate the “family” type of atmosphere.
That being said, lets hope Brooks is good. Lets hope, for our sake, Brooks has a better NFL career than Jonathan Taylor. I hope he does (though I doubt he will).
Lets hope for a great day 2-3.
All good dude
Thank you.
Nice post Bobbyk. I was pissed too, though I dont think I insulted anyone last night. I was pretty negative though…its tough to swallow watching Taylor and ithers get passed up, but hopefully Seattle trades up for someone awesome, like Taylor!
Thanks Bobby. Let’s go get us some game changers in Day 2 we can all be excited about!
👍
For what it’s worth, 31 other picks were made and none of them involved Taylor. So if he is a potential HOF’er, the whole league looks silly for passing on him.
Got some BAMF to him. Listening to him he played OLB for his first 3 years so its a possible/probable. I’m confused on his coverage ability. Some sites say it is great, others not so much. Barton seems like the better cover backer anyways. Without watching the tape I guess its somewhere in the middle. I’m very interested in who they take today. I think they trade up with the earlier pick. Maybe small trade back with the second.
I’ve been bullish on my support of Our front office for some time. However, I find myself disappointed at how well the other nfc west teams keep addressing player personal vs the Seahawks. Specifically, love what the 69’ers and cardinals have been doing this offseason. Jealous really. Also, surprised at Pete Carroll’s love for Cody Barton during the after draft presser yesterday. I remember Dave Wydman breaking down our playoff loss to the packers and he as a retired nfl linebacker was disgusted at Cody Barton’s inability to shed a block and or put Aron Rodgers on his ass during a play. Says there is no way AR should be able to block a LB on that play. So, to hear Pete gush about Barton was surprising to say the least. And for liking Barton so much, he was unable to help contain perimeter runs and sweeps for shit. Does this pick mean more base 4-3 going forward. Wtf. I don’t care how good an LB he is it’s way too much invested cost into the LB position. And for what, better special teams, maybe even though newer rules have devalued its importance even more. Hard for me to come to the realization Seahawks front office is getting bitch slapped by the previous safety turned broadcast analyst turned GM.
2 middle linebackers. Maybe more 3-4 looks? Seems unusual, but Rob hits on what a lot of us are thinking. How does this fit, and what IS the plan?
I posed the same question a week or so ago…here’s the problem – let’s just say they are transitioning to a 3-4 (which they aren’t); why in God’s green earth would you pick a #2 ILB when you only have one 3-4 OLB, who is also 33 years old?
If this was Baun or Uche…or even both – I could honestly say “oh…I see what they are doing here.”
I’m certainly coming around on Brooks the player…I still can’t get over the position and his skill set based on what we need.
Unless they’re certain they’re going to get a guy like Baun or Uche. And “just do it.” idk Nothing really makes sense anymore.
Totally agree. There’s no underlying philosophy that makes any sense to me with how they are building this thing. It’s especially frustrating considering we have a 3 year window for the Super Bowl.
I can understand it from a “hey, we are nowhere near competing for a Super Bowl, so we are targeting the best players, regardless of position, who have a certain attitude that can help build a winning culture.” But, this is not the Seahawks, at the moment. We are flirting dangerously close to the 8 win window that keeps you from having a chance at those real difference makers in the draft.
I attribute part of the problem to Dan Marino never winning a Super Bowl to him being so good that they never could get an opportunity to draft a Bosa type player (I purposely said “Bosa” because their Dad was what his kids aren’t – great). The boys are studs, the Dad wasn’t. But was drafted by the Dolphins in the first round. lol
Not early like his kids.
Great example/point.
And really that’s my fear right now. We have a transcendent QB, who carries this team, despite most things working against him (OL, Scheme, Overall team philosophy).
I am still holding out hope for a Jonathan Taylor today…
Can you imagine “The Triplets” of…
Russell Wilson, Jonathan Taylor, DK Metcalf (with a stud sidekick like Lockett).
That SB/Dynasty worthy. With a defense.
I don’t want to because I don’t want to be disappointed when it doesn’t happen.
I think we end up with Zach Moss – and I just can’t get excited about him (I know I’m alone on that one) when you could have had CEH, Taylor, Dobbins, Swift.
Who knows…maybe they do end up with one of those guys (sans CEH) – just not holding my breath.
Their philosophy is stopping the run first. They were incredibly bad at that last year. This is a pick that adds speed, violence, and great run stopping all of which were needed. Saying “They had bigger needs” may be true, but is picking (what is in their mind) a worse player just because you need that position more a good choice?
And looking at the board, the only people I thought they might take were Isiah Wilson (raw, developmental projection) and CEH who is amazing but also outside of their well established parameters.
Possible. There’s clearly not the talent on the DL for a good 4-3. As much as I’ve hated the Collier pick, I do think he has potential as a solid LDE in a 3-4. I think Collier can handle RDE, Reed a good NT… If they make up the difference with an OLB like Uche. Interesting take, Shaun.
That’s my thinking too. I really don’t like Collier, but he seems like a significantly better pick as a true 5T in a 3 man front. I understand Seattle likes to do weird personnel in the front 7, but I think what was once a real novelty (early 2010s) has evolved into what I can only describe as a directionless mess. The early iterations of this defense seemed geared towards exploiting market inefficiencies…and that’s where I’ve struggled with the roster construction over the past few years. It’s no longer about market inefficiencies…seems to be more about hubris/stubbornness to do things a certain way.
The defense is not a novelty. It’s largely based off the mid-90s 49ers defense. If it is outdated today, it certainly was ancient when it was introduced to the Hawks in the early 2010s. Like any scheme, the key is to have the right personnel which they did from 2012-2015. Natural decline from injuries, age, and chemistry led to the decline, not the scheme.
At first, I kind of thought the same thing. When listening to Brooks speak last night, he’s literally played OLB his whole life. This past year TT changed schematically and he moved. I think he immediately plays in Kendrick’s place and maybe replaces KJ after next year. He’s got a nose for the ball, plays sideline to sideline and gets into the backfield. I have a feeling he’ll be moving around and it’ll confuse offenses. I really liked that he has attributed his success to watching game film.
Here’s a question – what do the Seahawks need to do TODAY (in the draft) that would give you confidence that they can be a Wild Card Playoff team?
As it stands right now – I’m worried that we are probably just an 7-8 win team, which is about the worst possible place you can be as an NFL Franchise. Obviously there’s no chance at winning the division unless the 49ers are kicked out of the NFL.
The Cardinals are ascending in a big way and have become significantly better this offseason – and we struggled with them last year.
Is it crazy to think us and the Rams are the bottom two teams in the West? I think there is a legitimate chance that we go 1-5 within our own division next year. I don’t mean this as doom and gloom – but I’ll circle back to the original question: what can the Seahawks do in Rounds 2 and 3 that would give you renewed confidence for this coming season?
Having a franchise QB like Russell Wilson automatically makes them a WC contender. They could draft three terrible players today and still be in the WC running because of #3. Put Dan McGwire, Kelly Stouffer, or Rick Mirer on this team and they draft Trevor Lawrence next year. We are in a lucky time period. If they can draft a couple impact guys today – they could be SB contenders. It’s amazing how small the talent gap is in the NFL (especially if you have a franchise QB). Even though it seems they’re far away – they’re that close, too.
That’s the problem though…the Cardinals might very well have a great QB on their hands and I’d contend they have a stronger roster than we do. And, we have continually struggled against them.
I totally agree RW makes you a WC contender, but think of how many lucky breaks we had last year in close games just to limp into the playoffs? I’m afraid that last year was a fluke year in that regard and they have been blinded things they really can’t replicate.
I agree the talent gap is small, but I think Seattle’s talent gap is massively covered up by RW.
The easy answer is the trenches… Currently, we have a bunch of players on the OL and DL, but we need QUALITY over quantity. I think its more likely a DL can come in and be impactful compared to an OL and I also think that plays into the signing of 5800 OL this offseason.
Here are 10 names I’m looking for today… Hopefully 2 will be Seahawks:
DT: Raekwon Davis, Jordan Elliott, Jonathan Madubuike and DaVon Hamilton
DE: Joshua Uche, Jabari Zuniga, Curtis Weaver and Jonathan Greenard
OL: Robert Hunt and Prince Tega Wanogho
I think you have wrong expectations of the draft if you think this is the time to make your roster a contender over night.
What did Mecole Hardman add to the SB run of the Chiefs? Sure he was another nice weapon and played a role but it’s not like he turned that roster arround. At 27 you don’t get that player that you just draft and everyone is sure that he will be a starter at a position of need for the next years. The only position group that can do that for you is running back and we could still discuss the value of RB in the first for years.
Sure teams like the 9ers can add a Nick Bosa but he was a top 5 pick and even then you are not 100% sure that this is the requiered move. I remember the 2017 draft (pls let me forget McDowell) the 9ers got Soloman Thomas and Reuben Foster and they were crowned the winner of the draft by many. Now 3 years later Foster is not on the roster and Thomas is on the trade block playing a rotational role on defense.
To finally answer your question: The Seahawks need to add players that will win the competition for a playing role in the next years to become a substantially better team. When we drafted Russ we had a QB, when we drafted Kam we had another strong safety etc. The class still has some RB and WR left that could make an impact soon. Adding to the Oline competition would also be really helpful because we cannot trust our first round bust guys yet.
You just pinpointed the problem though. Sure, Mecole Hardman had a role for the Chiefs, but he was filling in a gap on an already really good team. the Seahawks have lots of holes to fill, and the general consensus is that they didn’t get that job done. If he is a draft pick for the future, that’s fine, but it didn’t really solve anything for the next season. At this point, I think he’s a good player picked by the wrong team or at the wrong point in the draft. And if you are truly drafting for the future, I think it would be better served picking OL, because they have a lot of linemen, but most of them aren’t particularly great and some of them are getting on in years.
Davido – I am asking this question specifically about the draft, because of their neglect in Free Agency. That’s why this question even exists in the first place.
If we had 2 bonafide pass rushers signed in Free Agency, the draft is icing and for the future or for niche roles in year 1, like a Mecole Hardman who greatly contributed to the Chiefs winning a Super Bowl.
Where is the narrative that this roster is just straight up bad coming from?
This is a team that could beat the 9ers last year and looked like a playoff team for the majority of the year, won a playoff game and then got eliminated when they had to start a retired RB, practice squad TE and backup Oline players on the majority of the line.
Sure the roster is flawed, especially the DLine is a huge concern. But besides that? We have a top LB core, top 3 QB, good RB room, 2 really good receivers, a good safety group since the addition of Diggs, a decent CB competition with Dunbar, a good TE group.
This is just on paper. If key players are injured again the group might not be good enough again but I don’t think this is a bad roster. The two position groups that are the biggest concerns are OLine and DLine. They adressed OLine. They didn’t adress DLine and you can criticize them for it. But they have been criticized for it for weeks now. The draft was never the place to do that. It’s a circular argument at this point. No matter who they would have drafted we could have still said “they didn’t adress Dline properly!”
The roster is middling, at best.
I’m specifically talking about the team having clear holes with options in Free Agency and they didn’t address them; meaning if they want to take a step forward this year – who can they draft that would do that?
Top LB core? What?
Top 3 QB? Absolutely
Good RB room? Sure – none of them are healthy.
2 Really Good WRs? Yes…and nothing after that. We saw what happened when Lockett went down – almost non-functional in the passing game.
Good safety Group? Eh…Diggs is a good player. McDougald is average. Blair, who knows.
Good TE group? It’s ok. A nice young TE who can’t stay healthy. An old vet who used to be a stud. Luke Willson and Hollister…replacement level players
I don’t think the roster is terrible. It’s middling. I think you are being far, far too generous about this roster. I honestly have no idea what you are talking about with the LBers. Bobby was a shell of himself last year. Besides him – Brooks might actually be the 2nd best guy – hardly what I’d call a top LB core.
To each his own. Hope this didn’t come across in a rude way.
First off, no worries I really enjoy such a debate. Thank you for your perspective!
I was cherry picking with my observation for sure. I was talking about what this team could be. But this is the task of the offseason imo. If you want to make a SB run people have to play up to their potential and even overcome that. Looking at the KCC roster you definetly see flaws there. Who are their top tier corners? Are those better than Quill and Dunbar? Is Sorensen a better safety than McDougald or Marquise Blair? Is any of their LB even on a KJ level leave alone Bobby?
They have Frank Clark and Chris Jones who contributed majorly in the playoffs. But besides that Dline is not really a strength neither. Damien Williams is no Chris Carson.
If you go into the next season thinking that key players will be injured or straight up bad then no roster scream SB contender. If all TE, RB, OLine and safety all are injured again you won’t win a SB I guess but you can not construct a roster with such depth while paying your superstar QB. Not even rosters with rookie QBs have such depth.
They can still win the division, let’s see what they do from here and they can still bring back Clowney.
The 49ers roster has taken a step back in the short term imo. Theyve replaced Buckner and Sanders with two rookies who, whilst excellent picks, won’t be as good as those two in year 1. Sherm is a year older, Jimmy G still isnt that good. And even last year they only just beat us to the division, despite having a far superior roster and an easier schedule. The division will be a closely contested bloodbath once again, I am very concerned about Arizona tho.
You are right, they can absolutely win the division. It’s a long shot, but not impossible.
While I don’t dispute your point about Buckner and Sanders – they can also expect Bosa and Deebo to be even better than last year. They have a ton of young talent that is still getting better whilst also already proving to be good players.
So while they have certainly lost guys – they are much like the 2012 Seahawks where you have literally seen many young players perform at high levels and will only get better. Outside of DK – who do we really have that you can safely say – this player is good and clearly going to get better by simply maintaining their current trajectory?
We can’t say that about anybody but DK. We still don’t know what we have in Collier, Blair, Barton, you name it. That’s what concerns me. We are so far behind the 8 ball with the holes that still need to be filled and the void of difference making young talent.
Yeah it’s not been good, theyve floundered their way through this offseason so far and havent found enough legitimate contributors in recent years. Pete and Russ is also biggest competitive advantage in that whole division so I would expect it to be close again, with the seahawks probably coming in second once again.
I don’t think Pete has been a competitive advantage for going on 4 years now. I would have said that awhile ago, but not now. His yearning to play base defense, 4th down decisions, lots of really bad things this team has had to overcome with him in recent years.
*Not saying he’s bad, but I think him being considered a competitive advantage is way too generous
Even if they bring back Clowney, it’s still another example of bad process. We’re seeing that bad process catch up with the roster.
That’s a simpler/better way to make the point I have been trying to make. It’s not so much the players or if things work out; it’s the process that really bothers me.
In Day 2 of the draft? Nothing. And I’m OK with that.
This is the kind of pick you make if you are a good team with a stacked roster. It makes sense to have someone that can play SAM now and slide over to MIKE when Bobby retires….if you don’t already have a bunch of holes on the rosters. This kind of move would have been smart to make in the glory days of 2013-2015 (instead of going big on expensive offensive weapons like Percy and Jimmy), but it is a poor decision for the place this team is at. PCJS have gotten really bad at roster construction.
This ^^
They drafted Brooks to fill in perfectly for Kendricks. Your starting off ball backers will be Brooks, Wagner and Wright. Barton does not have the experience or talent/athleticism to fill that role and will continue to provide backup at all three spots. This was the most important position to fill based on who would be penciled in to start if they didnt. Instantly makes the defense faster, more aggressive and better against the run. Great pick imo
The most important position to fill was SAM linebacker???
No it wasn’t. Not a year after you traded up in R3 for… a linebacker.
Barton doesn’t play the same position, and is probably a back up moving forward. Not all picks work out. Name another position they could’ve drafted a day starter at that was available with their current roster.
Really? There were plenty of names I could put forward for that.
I think we just uncovered the Seahawks method of addressing an important position:
1. Draft a player for it in the 3rd round.
2. If that player proves either too young(Green) or gets block by Rodgers (Barton) – move up to 1st round the following year and try again….
We better pay more attention to our 3rd round pick this year….it could move Rob to 29 in the Huddle next year…
You you killed it with the mock this year! Congrats.
Wish you and the rest of us had been right about the direction the Hawks would go as well. The lack of a plan to address the pass rush and fix the defense is incredibly frustrating I have to admit.
To be honest the Hawks whole Day #1 draft mode of operation for the last 7-8 years has been baffling to me. Almost like a guy who thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and continually needs to do outrageous things to prove it. Well I can say with 100% certainty it has not worked and I feel it is the reason this team has not won multiple Super Bowls in the Russell Wilson era and is on the verge of wasting another year of his prime.
Here is a recap of the last 6 years 1st picks. I challenge anyone to argue the fact that these picks have been anything less than a complete failure.
2013 -Trade for Percy Harvin (Terrible Trade)
2014 Paul Richardson (Injured, production 1 yr, no second contract)
2015 Trade for Jimmy Graham (Average to bad trade for a soft, over rated TE who was oft injured)
2016 Germain Ifedit (Below average RT/ no second contract)
2017 Maik Mcdowell (not one snap in NFL and known character issues before draft)
2018 Rashaad Penny (Backup to a 7th round pick)
209 LJ Collier (Looks like a absolute bust after yr 1)
It is my opinion that in 7 years PC/JS have not made one quality decision with the use of their most valuable draft asset each year and this is the primary reason the roster is the 3-4th most talented in the division now.
Sorry for the negative post but this off season has been beyond frustrating and needed to vent. If they draft Claypool, a pass rusher (Zungia, Taylor, Okwara, Uche) and a DT (Hamilton, Davis) all will be forgiven but I have a better chance of winning the lottery tonight than that happening.
This is a tough conversation to have because the likely rebuttal is to name all of the great players they found later in the draft – which I get.
But why not capitalize on those late picks by maximizing the value of your biggest commodity (highest draft picks). I’ve jokingly said this before, but PC/JS are masters at taking a $100 Bill and getting four $20 Bills and one $10 bill and thinking they’ve made out like bandits.
Trevor,
I understand your frustration. But I think we’re on the right track. We needed violence and speed on D. With our first pick, we get one of the fastest linebackers coming out of college. A team captain. Someone who can back up KJ for this first year (if there’s even a season). They clearly love him and his personality. He will be a culture fit and that matters a ton to me. We need leaders.
Moreover, today we really have the chance to have an epic few picks. As you suggest, a pass rusher is an immediate need. We will probably have the opportunity to draft Zuniga, Okwara, Greenard, Uche etc. That’s some speed! We need that! And for now, these options are still there.
John mentioned in his call last night that this year they’re not going to go for players that need huge development. Something to keep an eye on.
I’m still high on this team and today they have the opportunity to really add some speed and violence…again!
I’m perplexed as well, but your take on the 2013, 2017, 2018, 2019 first round decisions is a lot more negative than how i see them.
2013 -Trade for Percy Harvin — Not terrible, IMO. Watch SB48 again. Game changer.
2017 Maik Mcdowell — No one could have seen his ATV accident coming. He had amazing potential. As for character concerns, F Clark had them also and that worked out well.
2018 Rashaad Penny — was sharing the load w/Carson and really gaining steam when he got injured. Still has a chance to be special.
209 LJ Collier — way way way too soon to call him a bust. He was injured and missed a very important developmental time in his first year.
Can the same person be “terrible” at 1st-round picks and a genius at later-round picks? Maybe, but it a questionable take. How about this – compare PCJS 1st-round pucks to another GM who has drafted in the same range over the same period of time; Bill Belichick.
2013 – traded to Minnesota for later picks
2014 – DT Dominque Easley
2015 – DT Malcolm Brown
2016 – pick forfeited for Deglategate
2017 – pick traded to New Orleans for WR Brandin Cooks
2018a – OT Isaiah Wynn
2018b – RB Sony Michel
2019 – WR N’Keal Harry
Mathematical studies of draft history clearly demonstrate that drafting is an inexact science. A better evidence-based analogy for trading back is not trading a $100 bill for 4 $20 bills but trading 1 scratch tickets for 2 scratch tickets.
Since Rob mentioned it in the article that Seattle was struggling with the perimeter run besides having Mychal Kendricks. This is definetly correct and a pretty good argument. However, a big problem when it came to the run last year was Kendricks missing tackles especially early in the season.
I just recently watched the entire last season and you see him or other people shoot into the backfield but just not making the play. Not saying that a guy like Brooks fixes that on day one but neither would any other signing they could have made. Because same could be said about Clowney and you won’t get a more athletic run defender on the DLine anytime soon.
I don’t know what the Seahawks are doing. But, I am positive they are not gearing up for a transition to a 3-4 front. Pete loves him some 4-3 under. Has since like the 70’s the most influential coaches he worked under ran it and it’s his baby. Not only does he seem to like the basic idea of the personal I think is the under front he is so fond of. In the under the 3tech is isolated gap wise and that dictates to a great degree the rest of the lines gaps and techniques. That’s also why a speedy Leo is so important in that defense. He’s been running this base package forever he loves it and there is no way he is changing now.
I don’t think they’re changing schemes. My guess: Pete thinks he has the defensive personnel to be successful it what has worked before.
3-4 would just be super weird given the FA. Who can play the NT in that scheme? They didn’t go out and sign guys like Shelton or w/e.
Who could play DE? Jarran Reed, Poona?, Green?
Mayowa is neither a 3-4 DE nor a 3-4 OLB.
You would just make 3-4 guys of your roster playing a weird position just to fit in one guy at LB.
I seem to remember one of Pete’s end of the season pressers (probably on 710 ESPN with Danny O’Neil but I’m not sure) Pete talked for some time about how “their” numbers analysis of their 4-3 base were much better than what the critics understood. I thought about that last night as I struggled to sleep (Ha!) and I think that is the answer to this puzzle.
For better or worse I think Pete and John believe more 4-3 with better personnel at the “3” is the answer moving forward. It makes me shudder but I believe they think Brooks is a Kendricks upgrade and certainly one over Barton, especially against the run in early downs.
I assume they are hoping for more 3rd and 7’s and less 2nd and 3’s. It still doesn’t solve the 3rd and 7 pass rush but that may be what the focus is later. Hamilton or Davis today may be picks to try to both solidify the run defense and improve the pass rush from the inside out.
I’m glad they didn’t go early with a mediocre defensive end. It doesn’t appear any other team wanted to either. That leaves room for both a later round “athlete” (though who that is I don’t know) and a signing of a veteran (at this point i’d be happy with Everson Griffen just to calm my nerves).
And I do think they still have a wide receiver target though God forbid it be in the 4th round! I am also coming to the conclusion that they feel good about their offensive line and won’t use the next three picks there.
Funny thing about this draft, Rob. This site educated me so well I was predicting picks to my wife right and left in the first round which is ridiculous because of how little college football I watch, and when it came to the Seahawks…
My wife said, well, who is he?
And I said, Jesus, I’ve never even heard of the guy.
What a weird, weird time we live in.
Same here, Seahwcrates! I only watch the NFL and have never cared about college football. But I read this blog religiously so when the draft was occurring last night and today, I knew whether a particular pick was good or bad and why as well as why having a good idea what a certain team would pick. But like, I was totally flabbergasted and confused by the Hawks’ pick and even today, I still don’t think we got value for who we got, Brooks seems like a good player, vs our needs and the available talent when Brooks was taken.
Wish list for Day #2. Any 2-3 players from this list and I would be so happy.
-Okwara
-Uche
-Zungia
-D Taylor
-R Davis
-D Hamilton
-Amik Robertson
-Jeremy Chinn
-Taylor
-Akers
-Claypool
-Mimms
-Hamler
Antonio Gibson, Tyler Johson for O and add Madibuike and Alton Robinson to your list.
This has been an extremely frustrating offseason! I felt that the Seahawks were in the drivers position in their division this year given their cap space and collection of draft picks relative to their rivals. But they have simply used those advantages to load up on a ton of players that seem unlikely to have much of an impact. Meanwhile, the 49ers used their very limited draft capital to select two high-impact players of need in the first round. Sure, they don’t have much draft capital left now, but is it better to end up with two huge additions, rather than 20 mediocre additions? I hate saying this, but the 49ers now appear to be the better run organization. This is a depressing time in general, but boy, the Seahawks sure aren’t helping to give us fans something to feel excited about.
The only thing holding the 49ers back is their quarterback.
The only thing holding the Seahawks back is the offense surrounding their quarterback.
(and the defense LOL)
Leo, it is also true that San Francisco replaced two proven successful players with two unproven rookies. Expecting them to improve over the players they replaced in year one is unlikely.
You may well be correct about that. But the 49ers just missed winning a super bowl by a hair, and they didn’t really have any big holes in their roster. Meanwhile, the Seahawks have Russell Wilson, and two great receivers, but pretty much every other position on the team is a major question mark (Bobby Wagner and KJ wright are probably now past their peak, and with the injury history of Carson, Penny and Dissly, it’s really hard to feel optimistic about their impact next year). At the end of the year last season, I felt very confident that Seattle would solve their main problems and emerge as the better team. Right now, I think it’s pretty clear to anyone objective that SF is the better team. And before anyone starts trash-talking me: I hate the 49ers. OK, now you can trash-talk me.
Also big salary reduction.
I was as surprised as anyone but it looks like the kid can play. Good enough for baldy and Pete and John. This pick seems similar to the Blair pick. Speed toughness physicality.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1248429752597110791
Also recommend reading McGin’s article where scouts talk about him and Brugler’s draft profile.
I expect more “tough guys” get drafted by the hawks
Seems like resigning Clowney and/or Griffin is a must now. I would say they in DT and RB picks today, but I’d be wrong. They often seem not to do what seems logical to many here.
I agree to get one of them. Still monitor the Ngakoue situation as we get close to the start of the season as I just dont see him playing for the jags.
Hey Rob,
As far as predictive behavior is concerned, is it likely that PC/JS treat the 1st round as a BPA approach and then follow the 2nd-7th rounds as needs-based? This might explain why the 1st round is so unpredictable, when they actually make the pick. The NFL is full of injuries, and perhaps the only way to replace superstars is to swing for the fences when you get your pitch.
You never know when a star will go down, and you can’t be sure what you’ll get back after rehab. It seems like it could be a good approach to pick up talent when talent is available, regardless, and then sort though the rest of the draft.
You do great job on the draft man, but the first round for the Hawks may not be a typical “common sense” needs-based look approach.
Thanks for all your hard work this offseason/flu season. It’s kept me mostly sane.
Hey, there can only be one!!! 😉
Just thought of a funny analogy for you dads of young kids out there – this offseason feels a lot like being at the mall with your kids and you say, “I’ll let you have $20 to spend today – on anything you want.”
By the time you get home; they have silly string, some cheap toys that never get played with again, and slime-hand. The next day – they never touch the stuff again and are pissed that they wasted their $20.
I’m making the analogy for the Free Agent period this offseason. Why not just use that $20 for 2 great toys instead of a bunch of cheap crap?
Matt, John Schneider specifically said that the OL free agents they signed were “Priority 1, Priority 2, and Priority 3” so instead of calling them “cheap crap” you might ask, “What is this NFL GM seeing that I am not?”
Steve – The Seahawks have consistently fielded a terrible OL over the last 5 years. I don’t think it’s a stretch to question a plethora of low end OL signings that have eaten significant cap space.
I’m sorry, but while I don’t think I know more than PC/JS – I don’t do the blind loyalty thing. We have a very clear history of what they are capable of doing. A an awful lot of great things and a great many head-scratching moves. Recent history has shown far more head scratching moves than brilliant ones.
They have certainly earned the benefit of the doubt with several things – OL is clearly not one of them, especially when it came at the expense of neglecting pass rush when that was clearly the biggest need this offseason. This isn’t about the signing of a particular player – it’s the signing of many at a certain position that has prohibited them from addressing their biggest need.
I wouldnt call the OLine terrible. I believe that as long as Russ is our QB that we are going to give up sacks. It will be the same in Houston as Watson plays the same. Consistently you have the Packers and Patriots OLines listed at the top because those guys get the ball out so fast. As soon as those lineman sign big deals somewhere else they arent as good. We could have the 5 best offensive lineman in football and still give up 40 plus sacks. Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad.
Oh don’t mistake me thinking we need a great OL. I don’t think we do. But I do think our OL has been objectively bad for years and years. The offense has performed despite that which is why I hate how much cap space we siphoned to just get a bunch of bodies.
There is a reason I said I don’t really like the idea of a non-LT in R1. This team has made due with a lack of talent at that position. I don’t think an elite OL moves the needle on this offense like it would with other teams.
I would have been more than fine with the OL approach had they stopped after a few signings. But we have racked up a lot of low end bodies that have chipped away at all the cap space
Personally, I think Schneider is somewhat spooked when it comes to drafting OL. He repeatedly brings up how hard it is to predict their futures, and therefore to draft them. His experience with Ifedi did not help. People at A&M were adamant that Ifedi’s character and abilities would make him a good pro tackle. Schneider emphasized this in the post-draft conference. Yet, as it turned out, the Hawks let him walk when the best Ifedi could do otherwise is a vet minimum one year deal with Chicago.
So…now we see the result of this wariness–a huge (18!) bunch of lineman with experience, from which they hope they can put together a decent line. Better to deal with the devil you know than the devil you don’t.
I think the data-based consensus was that last year’s O-line was average, not terrible, and generally better at run-blocking than pass-blocking. Four starters are returning from that line.
How about this take? They have signed a number of players to create competition for the vacant RT spot, and the C/G spots. Many of those players will be cut and won’t cost anything against the cap. Shell, Finney and Ogbuehi provide a veteran hedge starter at RT, a potential starter at C if Britt needs to be replaced and a possible backup swing OT at a combined cost less than what it would have taken to keep Fant which actually freed up money from OL to be used elsewhere.
Well I am off the cliff but still not happy with our day one pick. So many possibilities were on the board that made more sense to me. Nevertheless, if you look at last year with Collier then Metcalf in the second and flipped them everyone would have said it was a great couple rounds. I expect Collier will have a much improved year 2 and Metcalf will be a star. That is what I am hoping for day 2 this year. Someone falling down the draft board that will be a star and makes sense. If Taylor fell and the Seahawks got him I would immediately love this draft but there could be others Raekon Davis, Hunt, Hamilton, Edwards. I think this day is the key to the draft and given the cost of moving up seemed to be so much reduced think there is a chance Hawks move up from 59 to get a targeted player. If Brooks is a BAMF and we land a star and quality player day 2 this will have been a great draft.
FWIW, Brooks played for now Arizona coach Kliff Kingsbury and Bobby Wagner’s Utah coach
I am enjoying the response to the Seahawks pick. The “fire PCJS” crowd is in full voice. This site is about the only quiet zone where you can have an analytical discussion. The posters that have been here for a long time are more likely to say, “I’ve seen this before. I’ve felt this way before.”
So, what does it mean when Seattle drafts “the wrong guy?” It means you are experiencing the confidence bias. You have overestimated your own ability to come up with the correct answer.
We all have been doing our own analysis. Many of us have published projections here or in draft contests. We all have been reading thorough educated analysis on this site. These behaviors increase our estimation of our own ability to 1) assess the Seattle Seahawks biggest needs despite not part of the Seahawks staff; 2) assess the ability of hundreds of college players to meet those needs despite not being NFL scouts (we actually have some really good “scouts” on this site if you have the ability to listen; 3) and, project the value of those players relative to one another (draft position) despite never having worked in an NFL front office (kudos to Rob for killing the Huddle).
When you put it that way, you realize how difficult this is. I underestimated the need for another LB relative to other needs. I did not participate in the Combine meeting with Jordyn Brooks. In retrospect, I may have been overconfident in my assessment that Michael Kendricks will be back in 2020. If I had identified that spot as an open starting spot with no clear starting-level replacement already on the roster, I might not have been as surprised by the pick. Brooks looks like a potential early down replacement for Kendricks. He also adds to team defensive speed (which was an identified need) and is a sure tackler (which also addresses an identified need).
Surprise is a normal response to the confidence bias. Questioning your assumptions and re-evaluating your analysis, maybe accompanied with some humility and humor, is a healthy response to the confidence bias. A refusal to reevaluate your thinking, especially an angry refusal, is a sign that you are still overestimating your analysis.
After careful thought and analysis I still think LJ Collier was “the wrong guy” my shock and surprise has been further supported by the Seahawks not having him active on game day. So, I don’t know why the brooks selection should just default to the Seahawks know the real deal.
I’m not asking this to challenge you but hopefully to spark some intelligent discussion. What exactly is your “careful thought and analysis?”
Also, I am not saying the Seahawks always know the “real deal.” I am saying that they are more likely to identify “the real deal” than I am. Every GM, even HOF-level ones, makes mistakes. People are perhaps the hardest “product” to evaluate and even if you get it right initially, people change.
My careful thought and analysis about LJ Collier is they needed and expressed a desire to fix the Leo position. It’s the most critical position of need because they have multiple player profiles who could possibly fill the 5-tech role. However, they have absolutely zero players who have the speed, flexibility and bend to fill the Leo position. LJ has limited physical upside and can’t bend the edge he is a bullrush, hand fighting DE most similar to a 5-tech skill set. So, we already have so many of those players at the position he was inactive most games last year. He isn’t going to morph into an athletic Leo. And wasn’t even good enough to beat out other players even be active on game day. So, that is why I am having a problem with your “trust the GM’s they are all knowing stance.”
I don’t consider Collier a LEO so I agree with your conclusion that he doesn’t fix that problem. We needed a 5-tech going into last year’s draft and I think that is where Collier will play if he isn’t a bust. He flashed early in training camp and the had an injury that stunted his development. The trade for Clowney eliminated his clearest path to starting snaps. I would suggest that it is fairer to say at this point in time that we don’t know what Seattle has in Collier than it is to say that he is “the wrong guy.”
Doesn’t take a whole lot of “careful thought and analysis” on Collier’s first year. It was awful. He may get better. He certainly should. And there’s a decent reason that contributed to why he was so bad he often wasn’t even active when he recovered–a bad training camp injury. But early returns suck. On that, in private, I’m sure Schneider would agree. Hard not to. A first round pick who barely plays and barely dents the stat sheet when he does is not a great start.
Respectfully, it does take “careful thought and analysis” to have a discussion that goes beyond emotions and unsupported opinions.
For instance, you touched on one point of discussion, How did Collier’s unfortunate injury affect his development and year-one production? You might follow it up with some examples of players who went through a similar rookie experience and either overcame that setback or failed to overcome that setback. And you might even take it one step further to try to determine why some overcame and some failed and evaluate Collier’s future in that context. That is an example of the type of posts that you find on this site that you don’t find elsewhere.
I don’t think “Collier is awful.” “I agree” posts accomplish much other than the comfort of shared frustration.
My original comment is based on your post expressing Seahawks front office has a master plan and us laymen shouldn’t question their roster and personal moves because of confidence bias. Even though this a blog geared towards that very thing. So. The FRONT office has for two years expressed the idea they need to fix the Leo position. How have they addressed that? I don’t feel it is a confidence bias they haven’t done anything to address what they have often expressed is their greatest need, Leo. My follow up post to that was an example about a recent draft for a player whom many didn’t understand questioned and ended up a non factor, so no confidence bias there. You asked for specifics and I provided them. Now you want contextual comparisons about a similar player who overcame similar adversities? How about you provide examples of any player on the Seahawks who is going to morph into an effective Leo.
Last year they apparently mistakenly thought Ziggy Ansah would overcome his injury and be an effective LEO.
I don’t see anybody on the roster who looks like a LEO to me so I think they are either planning on drafting one or (more likely) waiting until after the draft to sign a veteran FA like Everson Griffin or see who becomes available in a trade.
As you well know if you can read, which I assume you can, I didn’t say Collier was “awful”. I said his first year was awful. That is simply not debatable, and takes no careful thought or analysis. We will wait to see whether he is an awful pro football player, over time. I hope that he is not. If avoids injury, and does not materially improve, the Hawks will have made a mistake. Period. They will have drafted the “wrong guy.” It happens, even to teams whose records are pretty successful over time.
Got it. Collier had an awful first year. Agreed.
If he doesn’t improve, it will considered a mistake. Also agreed.
I appreciate the thoughtful post Steve.
I wanted to piggyback on thought on a trap that I regularly fall into as far as biases go. I always tend to look at the immediate holes on the roster and project high picks into those position holes. Very rarely do I seem to remember that draft picks typically have very little impact their rookie year, and their 2nd and 3rd seasons should be the ones they should be counted on to contribute.
It’s something I consciously choose to ignore, particularly in the light of the success the Seahawks have had with Wagner and Wright, and the ease with which they have annually brought in Kendricks for a reasonable salary. Couple that with spending a high pick on Cody Barton and the glaring need for pass rush, and it’s an easy assumption to make.
But I can see Boyd coming in, in 4 LB sets occasionally and stepping in if Wright is hurt, and then taking Wright’s spot in 2021 and maybe Wagner’s spot in 2022 or 2023. And that is consistent with a standard future draft plan.
cha, given that Mychal Kendricks is unsigned, facing legal difficulties, coming off a serious knee injury at age 29, and with Cody Barton as the top reserve, I think we failed to properly recognize the need for a starting OLB. Brooks may very well be starting in base on Week 1.
Rob accurately identified poor run defense and poor tackling among the Seahawks needs at defense but we focused most of our defensive attention on the clear need for pass rush and the vacant LEO and 5-tech spots, with a bit of discussion about the secondary/slot CB. In hindsight, that was a miss.
outstanding take.
I think they wanted to trade back of course, maybe twice, and get Brooks around 40. They were unable to do that so they took the guy the wanted. I think he’ll be a terrific player.
Sometimes you try and trade back and sometimes it just doesnt work. When they selected Penny and Paul Richardson they said both times he was there guy even at there original pick.
I think he could be a really good player, but he was not what they needed. There are some serious weak spots on this team that need addressing, but linebacker is not one of them. He might be one for the future, but they just drafted 2 LBs last year that were for the future. I also get the impression he could have been had later than 40.
Hi Rob,
What are the chances we are looking at the wrong “investment period” what if JS/PC view is there won’t be a 2020 NFL season and their approach is to fill the holes over the the next two drafts? Could that explain the Jordyn Brooks pick? Essentially they’re optimizing two draft classes. Just speculation. I appreciate all your work!
The most competitive coach in the league is not assuming there won’t be football this year.
If they sincerely believed this – then they should have drafted Ezra Cleveland to become LT of the future. Or you draft a pure pass rusher and do what you can to prepare him for 2021. You don’t draft an off-ball LBer in R1 to prepare for the future. Nothing against the player, it’s just a very poor use of resources.
Congrats Rob on your outstanding performance in the draft competition. I think it shows that the work and analysis you put in is top notch and that most of the NFL agrees with the research you’re going. That’s quite an accomplishment and you should be justifiably proud.
Then there’s the Seahawks. Contrarian is the nicest word I can use for their choice at #1. I’m still not coming around to justifying this pick either in resource/position use, long term impact or position scarcity in the draft. Yes, he may be a good LB but is that really where the pressing need was? This is not a team that is so deep that you can or should be taking luxury depth pieces while areas like D-Line and RB are stretched thin due to losing players or injury. Cutting KJ seems to be the only justification for the pick and salary commitment and then you still have to wonder if he’ll be a 2 down player in his first couple of years. This pick makes better sense as a lower round pick and if you don’t get him there (as some people have used for justification), you’ve got enough depth to last you for this year at least.
I’m not warming up to this pick, hope I’m wrong.
Having missed out on trading down in round 1, it wouldn’t surprise me to see JS try to deal #64 for a couple of later picks, with the Raiders (81, 91) or Jets (79 ,120) maybe? JS loves adding picks, and if the talent level is only marginally different, the potential contributors is better than two.
I could see them going up from 59 and back from 64. Maybe to spread out the picks a bit.
That’s my hope for what there strategy is today. See if you can maybe get into the high 40s utilizing pick 59. If nobody sticks out at 64 – trade back a little and recoup an extra mid rounder – or be uber aggressive with the Raiders and just take a big step back, but get two shots at it.
You think they might move up with a package of both 59 and 64? The trade value chart indicates we could get up to 33. Just a thought.
If they move up it’ll be one of their R4’s and it’ll be up to 10 spots.
Matt and BobbyK nailed it. Sf and cardinals are 1/2 in division. But…. hawks haveRW so anything is possible. Love the pick. Speed and attitude from this guy. Total seahawk mentality. Now grab claypool and another bamf on defense.
The Cardinals might scare me the most. You think you finally caught the Rams now you have to deal with Arizona.
A day later:
Jordyn was ranked the best run defender in the draft class with a 91.5 rating.
He was also rated as the best tackler of the class and 6th in coverage.
He ran a 4.54 3 days after being cleared for running so he is probably a 4.4 runner.
The Seahawks think he is better than Queen or Gay.
Can we justify picking him at 27? I do not know but two months ago we entertained the possibility of adding our 2021 1st round pick for Simmons.
This is what was said:
He could be a long term replacement for KJ Wright at the WILL. He could replace Mychal Kendricks at the SAM and play rush and cover. You could rush him off the edge on key downs and use him as a dynamic blitzer.
Whether it’s TFL’s, sacks, superior coverage or the ability to contain your NFC West opponents — be it Kittle, Murray or LA’s endless misdirection — Simmons provides a solution to all of Seattle’s woes.
If that made any sense, this could too.
Jordyn Brooks isn’t Isaiah Simmons.
I know he isn’t Rob. I could not get behind the Simmons idea to begin with so I am just trying to talk myself into accepting this.
This one is not easy to accept…
IMO he is a short term replacement for KJ at WILL.
So short term for KJ and long term Bobby? Sounds about right.
Seahawks stayed at 27 and got their guy. Usually Schneider and co trade back. They didn’t get cute, apparently hearing that another team wanted Brooks and was maneuvering to do so.-Peter Schrager.
The Brooks pick will be measured over the next few years. Time will tell if he is a difference maker. If the plan all along was to wait it out and then bring back Clowney and sign Griffen after the draft then that frees us up to take BAMF football players at a variety of positions. But if we have moved on from Clowney and don’t sign Griffen that puts us in a difficult position today. It is a long way to picks #59 and #64 and tonight it could be painful to watch coveted player after player come off the board and get to our picks and have to hold our breath to get the always unexpected Seahawks BPA!
I’m so frustrated, so many, so many names discussed here. Even 2nd or 3rd round but this is getting like at a trend first selection is out of blue. I wish we don’t use first round ever till PC/JS era.
Trying to find something good about our new player. Penny, LJ and now brooks. Everyone is going to talk about it for years – i hope in a good way.
I think what really stood out to me about the 49ers D last year, besides the D line, was the great play and speed of their rookie LB. Them signing him took their D to another level from the year before. I’m hoping Brooks does the same for us and gives us speed and play making that we didn’t have last year!
Thoughts?
Go Hawks!
Their young LB’s thrive because they’re so well protected by a dominant D-line
Exactly Rob! Just like our former LOB. They were great of course but part of it was they had a great D line making it so they didn’t have to cover for too long. A dominant front four makes everyone else look good.
Tony Pauline says we’re interested in Nick Harris…
“Harris is garnering interest from the Las Vegas Raiders, Denver Broncos and New York Jets. Coincidentally, it’s the hometown Seattle Seahawks who have shown the greatest interest in Harris and could swipe him off the board today.”
Watch them draft him at 59, not move on from Britt and have him ride the bench for 3 years.
Well, they do think they’ve ‘addressed their needs in FA’….
You just made me cry.
It’s a new concept that Carroll is excited about.
Everyone can win a SB with a good/great team. The challenge is to win it without it.
I know you are a Harris fan – but that’s a disaster on Day 2 considering what this team needs. Do I think Harris can eventually start at Center? Yes I do. Do I think he will be anything more than a mediocre starter? No I don’t.
They didn’t take Ruiz…punt on Center. You have Joey Hunt – no need for a slightly better version of him with massive holes elsewhere.
I’m the biggest UW fan around, seen all of his games, know his strengths and weaknesses. I love the kid. Having said that, if we take him today I’m going to be livid. Joey Hunt should have shown them the error of this line of thinking and they want to retain Joey!?? Why in the world would you get smaller and less powerful on the line? He will struggle with the bigger nose tackles like he did in college. Sometimes things just don’t add up.
Maybe 101 but please NO at 59 or 64.
I honestly want no part of him until 214. He’s just not going to hold up in the NFL. He was a fine Center in a terrible conference that can’t produce NFL defensive talent. We play in the most loaded division in football, with 2 teams boasting insane DL talent.
I LOVED him at UW. You can get by with his style of play in that conference. In the NFL – that’s a major gamble that I’m willing to let someone else take.
Disagree, Joey Hunt is not a long term option. He is a solid backup. If the plan is to cut Britt, Harris makes a ton of sense. We simply do not know how it will play out.
Never said Hunt is a long term option. What do you think Harris’ ceiling is a starting center?
I think he’s a guy that can start and that you probably want to upgrade as soon as you can. I don’t think that’s worthy of a day 2 selection in a team with a closing super bowl window.
How could they have passed on Ruiz? He was drafted at #24
I didn’t say they passed. I said they didn’t take – let’s not argue over semantic-word usage.
My point is that Center is not necessarily a real need. It’s one thing to take a guy at the end of R1 thinking he can be an All-Pro caliber player. It’s an entirely different animal to take a grossly undersized OC that can maybe be a serviceable starter in R2 – when that need doesn’t necessarily exist at the moment.
“But this allows them to cut Britt and sign a pass rusher.” If that’s the rationale – that’s an awful, awful process. I would have been totally fine cutting Britt before the draft so you could sign extra pass rushers – I’m not great with “hey let’s create a need to create some cap space that we wasted on 6 mediocre offensive guards.
Again – my qualm is the process with this stuff.
If they are interested in him, we do not have to worry.
It’s the guy they show not interest in who’s just starting to prepare supper that scares me.
You know something is wrong when (as a long term member of the SDB community) you need to google atop draft pick….
When Rob, ranked 3rd on the Huddle, has to go study the tape of a 1st round pick…I know we are F$#KED…
Eran,
I was googling too! LOL
One of my favorite threads every year is the post-draft thread where Rob talks about what he learned from this draft to help him prepare for next year. I think that thread will be a good one for all of us this year.
They have Harris already….his name is Joey Hunt. Let’s hope this isn’t the case and they load up across the front seven for two days with a dash of Antonio Gibson!
I see an assumption Brooks won’t start, an assumption we will continue to have such a big investment at LB and a mischaracterization of him as MIKE.
He played WILL all three years before this one. PFF loves him as a complete pass rushing, run stopping and coverage LB.
KJ looked extremely slow last year and was a part of the problem. We also save 7.5 million by cutting him and there are still good FA out there.
Guys, they didn’t draft a guy in the first to sit behind Bobby. Every high draft pick of theirs has had a clear route to playing time. Especially first rounders.
KJ is gone, this guy will be an improvement at WILL and we will use the money to sign Snacks Harrison or Everson Griffin.
I agree with you that KJ looked incredibly slow last year and that was a motivator in making this pick. I’m not sure that means we are cutting KJ though.
“Every high draft pick of theirs has had a clear route to playing time. Especially first rounders.” – I agree.
But, sometimes, something happen along that route. Just ask McDowell, Collier even Penny….
I think it is more likely he starts over Cody Barton than KJ. i think we have all (perhaps mistakenly) assumed that Mychal Kendricks will be signed and overcome his knee injury and legal difficulties to start in 2020 and play at his 2019 level. I believe that assumption is at the root of my surprise last night when this pick was announced.
Does the pick say they feel good about running a base defense and less nickel in the current NFL?
Maybe they go SS in round 2?
Grant Delpit?
Jeremy Chinn?
After addressing DL of course.
You would think safety is out after going BPA already for LB. They probably have to draft for need now with todays picks. Just my uneducated opinion.
I would load up on defense with next 3 picks…defense needs major make over.
Just imagine if they picked a TE next…
Or a QB. People would go postal.
They literally HAVE to take a DT today right? They have no depth there….
Very likely. OT is too IMO. Watch them draft a kicker 😂
Brooks must have worn the suit in the Zoom interview. I gotta remember to do stuff like that if it has such a big payoff!
But was it Brooks Brothers?
I am still wondering who wore the suit and who was watching TV laying in bed. Brooks was a combine interview that we didn’t know about. This is another reason why we need to get Rob to the combine next year so he can lurk outside the Seahawks suite and get us the intel!
I’m game for that.
Is it coincidence that we would then hedge for the departure of KJ and Britt? Possibly leaving the door open for Clowney?
Meant to reply to Rob on Nick Harris
Is there a plot to release cap pressure by releasing some big contract player? Next year Bobby, this year Britt,KJ? May be we see transactions after draft like trade?
The best thing I’ve seen for having optimism over the Brooks pick, is “think about how different this pick looks if we had Clowney and Griffen”. And I agree. If we had shored up the DEs, we would still be in good position to get a DT, OL, WR and RB.
I’m gonna just hold out hope that we do add at least 1 more stud veteran DE. For my sanity’s sake lol.
Another thing that makes sense to me on why they added so many depth players and not making an splashes, is that RW is gonna keep us in contention. We did very well last year before a ton of injuries took out any shot of contending. Perhaps they just want to bulk up for injuries and add some guys.
Depth + Dunbar + Brooks so far. We still desperately need a DE. I hope we dont draft one, though. Unless its Okwara.
Would have been interesting to see how things would have happened if we didnt lose Carson. We may have not made the Super Bowl but I dont think the 49ers would have as I would think we would beat the week 17. All for not though.
‘Your a real piece of work Kenny.’ Lmaooooo
Hsnds down my favorite comment from last night.
Wasn’t Kenny also called a ‘tool?’ LMAO.
My fave moment was forgetting the Chargers took Herbert and Kenny calling me a ‘donkey.’
Good times.
I must have missed that one 😂😂😂
I love Kenny man. Have a lot of fun w/ him on this site.
My 1st thought was, what’s next? He gonna ask, ‘what is your malfunction?’
My big theory out of all this is that they now intend to release KJ, (late) and brooks plays his spot. They free up money to resign Clowney. They don’t want to cut their center just yet, but KJ is obviously slowing down despite what some would tell you about his tackle numbers. Today they just need to find impactful players. Simple as that. Trade back up. Be aggressive.
IMO, cutting KJ goes against everything (admittedly very little) I think I know about Carroll. Dude seems so loyal and sentimental that he’d just as soon extend Wright for another 10 years.
Rob I apologize if I missed it in the comments above but do you think there is a chance they cut KJ to free up money to sign a DE? How much would be saved? It does not seem like something the Hawks would do at this point.
No Rob ( but I did stay at a Holiday Inn). I could really see a competition going for that WILL spot in camp if it ever happens. Say between Barton Wright and Brooks. If KJ doesnt win that competition it could be curtains for him, if he does win it then good for him.
No — they were talking last night about KJ. I suspect they’ll ‘find’ a role for Brooks as a rookie and then he will replace KJ.
I could be wrong on this, but didn’t KJ just get a bonus for still being on the roster? If that’s true, I don’t think they would be planning on cutting him now.
KJ is not leaving this year. Next year, possibly, which hopefully becomes a time for one of the young bucks to slide in naturally rather than go through growing pains.
I might be in the minority but I like the direction we are headed. We added Dunbar and will get Diggs for the whole season and have Blair waiting in the wings at safety. We have some young fast players at the LB position but it just comes down to getting after the QB. Can we add more to do it by committee?
All the safeties are left too. Not a single one went in Round 1.
Just wonder if that position is on there early radar? We seem to have the future in Diggs and Blair? We went BPA for the first pick, not sure they can do it again if the top player on there board is a safety?
Probably not, but then again. Who thought an off ball LB was?
I’m not sure Diggs is the future at FS.
I’m inclined to agree with you. You make a great point about them adding somewhat of a luxury already.
LAMENTATIONS
Last night during the pick, my jaw hit the floor and stayed there at least until the next pick was called. I watched one highlight video and then turned the draft off.
The draft, and this site particularly, has really been a ray of sunshine amidst all of the pandemic impacts and frustrations. Man, the excitement for the draft is always electric, but this year it was X 10 for me! I jumped into draft evaluation with both feet and was a visitor to this site multiple times a day and… After all the reviews and excitement I had my short list of players I had hoped the ‘Hawks would pick if staying in the first round.
Our defense struggled to affect opposing QBs all year. The tackling was sloppy and the defense looked uncharacteristically undisciplined most of the year, giving up lots of explosive plays. I was wondering if there would be any staff changes, actually. We desperately needed DL help, depth at corner and safety. On offense, Russ made a plea for weapons for the first time ever. I still feel like our offense consists of vanilla play calling and stubborn dedication to the run all to be bailed out by Russ 75% of the time (our more) … in the second half.
So, needless to say, I was shocked at the pick. However, I think it was more than just football for me. I put so much excitement in the draft I think it was my savior from everything else and when “my” player wasn’t announced, it was like a punch to the gut.
I say this only as a reminder to myself and others to lean into the positives… our families, our faith, our friends, whatever it is for you. And remember, we have the best quarterback we’ve ever had right now! Russ will probably be the best we ever will have considering his legendary toughness and work ethic. We have a brilliant GM. We have a crafty head coach that consistently plays his young players. We are competing for a SB almost every year! Let’s have some fun over these next two days!!!
And Rob, congrats to you for another well deserved accomplishment at 28/32! You are the best!
Looking on the bright side of things, at least I don;t have to look at one more mock draft having us taking Epenesa or Gross-Matos in the first round.
You can now go through the pro football mock simulator with all the first rounders in it.
That is the best part of all of this, No Chaisson, Epenesa, or Gross-my-toast.
You guys like the odds (I do) of Seattle coming up to get a guy tonight?
I do too.. would be costly but if your guy is there and falling, go get him!
I want them to.
I want to see the aggression that has been lacking all off-season today. I want to see them go after someone just like they did with Reed, Lockett and DK.
There’s so much talent on the D-line. Makes me think someone is gonna slip like farther than they should like those 3.
Raekwon might be the one. Teams will probably be more willing to grab a DT in the early 2nd who doesnt have perceived “pass rush deficiencies”. Jarran Reed all over again!
Good point. Blacklock should come off the board fairly soon tonight.
I’d be stoked with that move for Raekwon.
The latest mock draft for today at nfl.com has us taking Cleveland at 59, Davis at 64, and Moss at 101. Thoughts?
Still trying to decide the best way to go to get the most bang at each position. Do we go RB at 59 or WR at 59 (I think we’ll go DT with one of the first two for sure). I’m also trusting that JS/PC will get a veteran edge to come in. Do you like draft A or B and which options at each position do you like the best (or list someone you like better at the pick and position that I didn’t list)?
Draft A – Get Russ a playmaker first!
59 Claypool, Hamler WR
64 Davis/Hamilton DT
101 Moss/Dillon RB
Draft B – Get our bell cow!
59 Taylor/Akers RB
64 Davis/Hamilton DT
101 Van Jefferson/Dunervay/Golden-Gandy/Peoples WR
Thanks and Go Hawks!!
That would be a homerun IMO.
I’m pretty stoked over the Jordyn Brooks pick and I wasn’t a fan of Seattle adding a LB before the 3rd.
Not what I wouldve done but I’ve wanted a new fast LB for years. I’m warming up to it, so long as a few things fall a certain way.
Me either.
He’s gonna add a ton of physicality. Which is what they’re missing. If they can get a pass rusher tonight? Now we’re cooking with gas.
They now have a building block on all 3 levels for the future. Reed, Brooks, and hopefully Blair. If Blair comes around, him and Brooks give Seattle 2 incredible alphas.
You see that video of Brooks ripping into his teammate on the sideline after he got a dumb personal foul? Dude is a leader.
I did.
He’s the definition of intense. Good lord. Reminds me of Earl that way. Just wound incredibly tight and you can hear the passion in him as his voice breaks. The 1st :30 of his JR. highlight clip illustrate that perfectly.
I need to check that out. I’m getting more into this pick as it goes on. Pete’s gonna restock the defense with this draft. I’d love to see dudes go across the middle with Blair, Bobby, and Brooks manning that. Can we steal an old one and call them the Killer Bs?
As long as they show up to games in black & yellow with face masks on.
Iron Sheik: Fack the B. Brian Blair. The jabroni. I put him in camel cluych and break his back.
I’m here for it!
What is wrong with Chris Simms?
‘K’Lavon Chaisson can be Von Miller’
He really can’t.
But he can be Barkevious Mingo…
He absolutely can’t. IDK why you would even make that comparison. It’s apples and oranges.
I like Chase Young a lot, but he’s not a Bosa brother. That needs to stop too.
Tony Pauline is saying on his draft blog, Seattle might draft Nick Harris tonight. Jordyn Brooks LB and Nick Harris C. Potential cuts Justin Britt C, KJ Wright LB. Maybe they are focusing on opening cap space for Clowney/Griffin.
You mean, they pick Harris over Matt Hennessy? That would be… insane.
That would be an interesting approach, they’d kinda be doing their offseason backwards.
Rob, congrats on your mock draft score, very impressive, just like all the rest of your work, as good as it gets and still improving. Thanks so much for all you do so well.
My thoughts on the pick: They wanted more speed and aggressiveness on the second level and this is a guy they feel is ready to play right now. Brooks played outside for three years at an all conference level then moved to MLB and had an even better year. They must believe that he can mimic his trajectory from college and take over from Wagner. Kendricks won’t be back and those snaps are up for competition. Pete even talked about reducing the snap counts on Bobby and KJ after the last time they surprised us with LB picks(seems like just yesterday). They did what they did, it is what it is, I hope Brooks is a guy that will blow up jet sweeps, screens, spy and improve us against the run.
I am so surprised they did not trade back, especially with the pick they took. All of my favorites were still there at 27, I think that CEH Taylor and Wilson all would have been big year 1 contributors. As far as the edge options i don’t see any of them as more than a rotational piece in year 1, taking Brooks could shift Irvin to play mostly on the edge, not ideal but understandable at least. For me DT was always the key to this draft and we should have some options left, we will see. I think they can still have a solid draft with a couple more big contributors, but I’m really bummed they didn’t pick up that pick in the 70-100 range or pull the trigger on CEH or Taylor especially.
Thought it was interesting coincidence in Jason La Confora’s Mock he had Green Bay taking Brooks at pick 30 after Seahawks had traded down to pick 31. I think after Murray he was the 2nd best middle linebacker. Just wasn’t expecting it to be our pick.
What Confora put in pick notes for Brooks at 30.
“Blazing speed, four years of production and a serious wingspan to wrap up ball carriers. Has some metrics not that unlike Ray Lewis — both are around 6-foot — and the Packers were ready to pounce on Ray a long time ago before Ozzie Newsome traded up. Could be another interesting game of chicken between the Ravens and Packers this time around for linebackers again.”
Also liked he was used as a spy vrs Khalil Tate and Hurts.
Not disappointed in pick, just surprised.
Now hopefully we have a great day 2.
I hope he is Ray Lewis
By god, please be Ray Lewis 2.0 lol.
Brooks will be our starting SAM this year and then take over for Bobby the year after! This MUST be the plan. If not…. we r screwed!
That isn’t the plan. Bobby and Russell are their two kings.
Soooo want to see Brooks blow up a Dumbo (pun intended) Samual jet sweep in a Niners game!
This draft is gonna a S-R-T themed one isn’t it? With speed sprinkled ober the top.
I feel like I should know what that means lol
100%. Along with maturity and proven production.
Seems that way
I didn’t do it right.
It’s S-T-R aka Strong-Tough-Reliable
I believe it’s actually “Smart, tough, reliable”.
Hahaha. Your right. I screwed the pooch twice. I’m a f**k up Sea Mode. Story of my life.
Too many comments to read, so this will probably rehash a lot of what others said, but here are my thoughts after letting it sink in.
– Pete and John weren’t giving us “lip service” during that pre-draft presser. They said they were going into this looking BPA and they proved it. No trade backs and saying “this was our guy all along”. They stuck and picked (after that trade with GB fell through). That means Brooks really was the best player on their board. Just because he wasn’t the best on someone else’s board isn’t the point.
– Relates to point #1, the weird offseason is having an impact on their thought processes. Brooks learned a new system and excelled right away. They want players who can come in and play right away, even with limited face to face time with the team. Don’t be surprised if the other players follow suit. There not be many projects with this group.
– Brooks is a mature, well spoken individual who seems like a leader. Also has a bit of an edge to him. Let’s face it, the defense overall was poor last season. The pass rush was abysmal, but so was the tackling on every level. If he can come in and make this defense faster and tougher off the bat that’s a good thing.
– Brooks also seems like a better athlete than his official 4.54. Schneider mentioned he was a 4.46 guy in the interview. Nagy had a tweet showing that he hand timed him at 4.43. Brooks has long arms. He’s explosive coming downhill. He’s a sure tackler. He seems to be great at reading plays and slipping blocks. All of these things are good.
No question John Schneider wanted to trade down. But you HAVE to find a trading partner.
To me it Brooks is a TACKLING MACHINE.
Yeah, but not much more.
“Not much more” gets picked on day 2 or 3.
Does anyone know what the hell any of this means?
https://twitter.com/JosinaAnderson/status/1253752508373221376
“Source: With OAK on clock, 1 initial Q&A discussion was on a Tackle. Convo shifted to WRs, but that Q&A was not centered on the eventual pick. Then there was a shift from what several thought would occur. Final sentiment: If mistake, rather do on speed. Was some shock, but happy.”
Put the phone down for five mins Josina.
😂🤷♂️
Too much lemon juice and celery water or whatever the hell she was on about that one day.
Or too much alcohol in that lemon and celery juice.
Maybe the they’d rather miss on speed was related to their pick of Ruggs.
People thought theyd go OT but they went WR and picked Ruggs because they liked his speed? Lmfao what a train wreck…
Maybe the source was on crack
That’s some salad, right there.
New motto: “Was some shock, but happy.”
WHAT DO IT MEANS???????
One thing I wonder is this: this D has been so awfully sloppy at tackling, that they selected a player who they though was assured to tackle. Possibly, that was an aspect not valued enough by us.
I hereby bet… after taking JordYN, they will take AshtYN after trading back a little.
Post Day 1 PFN mock simulation:
No trades
59 — Raekwon Davis
64 — Robert Hunt
101 — Cam Akers
133 — Bryce Hall
144 — Trevis Gipson
214 — Damien Lewis
Just looking for a little sunshine at the moment. Hey brother can you spare a ray?
I would love this, but it’d be nice to have one playmaker at WR. Even Reed from UVA to be a deep threat/kick returner would add to our weapons for Russ!
Go Hawks!!
The latest mock draft for today at nfl.com has us taking Cleveland at 59, Davis at 64, and Moss at 101. Thoughts?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001111039/article/2020-nfl-draft-day-2-mock-patriots-snatch-qb-in-third-round
I’m hoping we don’t go OL early, but still trying to decide the best way to go to get the most bang at the other positions. Do we go RB at 59 or WR at 59 (I think we’ll go DT with one of the first two for sure). I’m also trusting that JS/PC will get a veteran edge to come in. Do you like draft A or B and which options at each position do you like the best (or list someone you like better at the pick and position that I didn’t list)?
Draft A – Get Russ a playmaker first!
59 Claypool, Hamler WR
64 Davis/Hamilton DT
101 Moss/Dillon RB
Draft B – Get our bell cow!
59 Taylor/Akers RB
64 Davis/Hamilton DT
101 Van Jefferson/Dunervay/Golden-Gandy/Peoples WR
Thanks and Go Hawks!!
I’d be fine with Cleveland and Davis in R2. Cleveland combined with Brooks has me thinking that maybe Seattle is kind of punting on the 2020 season – not that they are giving up but just saying “hey, we are gearing up for 2021.”
I’m not a fan of Moss or Dillon. I’d rather go with Dillon because of his upside.
Why don’t I like Moss? He was a really physical player but always seemed dinged up and he’s just not a very good athlete. I just see a poor man’s Thomas Rawls, in all honesty. And I like Rawls…but what did he cost us?
I’m not in the “don’t draft RB camp,” but I do think you need to see special qualities with picking a RB in the top 100. I just don’t see that with Moss.
As for Dillon…he has 25+ lbs on Moss and is faster. Don’t love him as I don’t think he’s very natural. But at least you can see the upside if he hit.
Moss a far better receiver and pass blocker. Better at breaking tackles as well.
I don’t like either guy at 101. Just saying I think Dillon has more upside – not necessarily debating the current skill sets.
Saw that. Seems solid, though Akers was still on the board at 101, which has been my hope all along.
Nevermind, he went at 52…to the rams
I tuned into 710 ESPN Seattle after the SH’s pick (homer alert) and Dave Wyman was on board with the pick. Huard thought this pick was totally in line with Carroll’s defensive mantra: stop the run. Gap discipline, speed and power are supposed to be Brooks’ strength. So there’s that. Will Brooks be ready to fulfill that role with a shortened camp and/or preseason or will the SH’s have to wait until 2021 to see those traits impact games? SF scored mightily and are a better team for it. Even the Cards with Simmons now will be a 2 game challenge for the SH’s.
If we sign 1 or 2 of Clowney, Griffen, Ngakoue, I would love this draft.
SEA 27.
Jordyn Brooks
OLB Texas Tech
SEA 59.
Raekwon Davis
DT Alabama
SEA 70.
Robert Hunt
OT Louisiana
trade icon
SEA 101.
Nick Harris
C Washington
SEA 133.
Zack Moss
RB Utah
SEA 144.
John Hightower
WR Boise State
SEA 173.
Kevin Dotson
G Louisiana
trade icon
SEA 214.
Javelin Guidry
S Utah
That would be dope
What kind of blackmail does John Lynch have on other GMs that forces them to panic and give him picks in order to move up ahead of… well… themselves?
I mean, I know he’s obviously using the fear that “some other team is going to move up and get your guy”, but that doesn’t work for anyone else, apparently.
At first I thought it was weird they only moved up one spot. But I think that the 49er’s had multiple offers for the pick and told Tampa Bay that. Tampa Bay makes the trade up so nobody else moved up to steal their guy.
Rob and Gang,
Is Jordan better than Logan Wilson? I’m no expert but how much difference between two player. I would have loved taking Logan Wilson on 64th.
I’m panicking, feels like too much information is causing more pain.
On their board, he was better. And that’s all that matters now…
Had literally nothing to do with Jordyn Brooks, lol
Only thing I can think of in retrospect is the guy runs parallel to the trench. So…sideline to sideline speed?
And not *in* the trench itself, I guess
🤯
The desk pop one did. ‘Guns up’.
So with LB out of the way, that means SAFETY is the next pick, right?
I know your (kinda) joking, but after hearing them talk about how they tried to identify guys who they feel are more pro-ready and will be able to adapt well in a short off-season, I watched some more of S Kenny Robinson last night, and he might be one of those guys they feel like they have more tape of in a pro scheme from the XFL.
Also, just looking at him run and play, I couldn’t shake how similar he looks to McDougald.
Kenny Robinson Jr. WVU+ XFL Highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW9YBou3cro
Sea Mode – ya get my sarcasm. But seriously, if they made a pick like Brooks, why not just focus on some BAMF ballers at ANY position including safety? Even though we 20 OL under contract get guys like Robert Hunt too?
I can see them taking Amik Robertson to play nickle CB.
💯
Urban Meyer recruited picks #1, 2 and 3 to OSU. Staggering. Mind boggling.
Incredible…. and I’m really glad he is no longer at Ohio State. Wish Saban would retire too. Tired seeing the same 3 teams in the 4-team playoff every year.
Watch all the OT left go 33, 34, 35, 36…
Unsurprising. Tunsil had the Texans by the cojones.
Yup. This exec agrees with you.
Rams with Ramsey are next.
It begins. Restructuring a contract that hasn’t even kicked in yet.
Yes. That mistake will cost them. Unless of course they trade him to Houston for two 1st-round picks…
Congrats Rob on an amazing 28/32 clip. That’s freaking nuts and you are good at what you do! Thanks for bringing so many players to our attention to consider ; )
Potential partners if we want to move up, though it would be a big one to get up to #39.
I could see them doing it for either Jonathan Taylor or JK Dobbins.
Watched the press conference again. John said we did a really great job in free agency so that it enabled us to take the best player available lol. Exactly opposite of what many on this forum have been saying. I think they have to pretty confident about signing Clowney/Griffin, otherwise why would he say they have done a great job so far addressing their needs… Unless John is just lying, but he genuinely seemed very happy yesterday.
We all hope there is a plan. We just can’t discern what that is right now, which is why people get frustrated. At the end of the day you have to hope they know what they are doing.
From Brady Henderson:
“With Jordyn Brooks, there was a big difference between how draft analysts and NFL teams viewed him. I’m hearing multiple teams had Brooks rated over Patrick Queen. One team told the Seahawks after the fact that it had Brooks as their No. 1 LB this year.”
Brooks isn’t the talking point. They’re focusing on the wrong thing.
It’s the complete off-season. That we’re weeks into it and despite spending most of their cap space and now their top pick — so many key needs remain unaddressed while they continue to plough resources into LB.
The inability to identify the areas of need and target them is inexcusable at this point. PC and JS need to be held accountable by the media and fans if this continues into the regular season.
Seattle Sports media is far more interested in being friends with sports figures and spouting their politics.
The idea of tough sports journalism is non-existent in this town, unfortunately.
Art Thiel was once pretty tough on coaches and teams. Especially Washington. He’s mellowed some, but is probably still the toughest of a pretty soft bunch.
Not going to disagree w your take on pass-rush needs — but run defense also a big issue, terrible YPC against us last year (4.85 yards per), and we all know PC loathes that more than almost anything else. From all the reports Brooks will be an asset there.
Sure. It was an issue and one I’ve talked about a lot to be fair.
But if you’re league worst for pressures per snap and bottom five for every other pass rush metric — how you defend the run is going to be moot. If your two key pass rushers are Bruce Irvin and Benson Mayowa and you’re playing base defense — you’ll never run. You’ll run about 15 times. Because you’ll have every advantage necessary to control the Seahawks defense.
If this is Pete’s thinking – he needs to realize it is 2020.
While he wants to establish the run on offense – when on defense; he’s at the mercy of what other teams want to do. That’s my biggest gripe with him over the last few years. He coaches a team he doesn’t have in a league that no longer exists.
I’m all for shutting down the run…but it means nothing if the other team can pass at will on you.
And it was easier to focus on ‘stopping the run’ when you had Earl, Sherm, Kam, Avril and Bennett defending the pass.
Now they just end up exposed. Because the talent isn’t there. They just have a really expensive group of LB’s and not much else.
Yep – the style he wants to play is not conducive with the personnel he has. Again, and I know you are a part of this group of thinking – my problem is not necessarily the player; I think Brooks will be fine – it’s the process and plan that leaves me wondering what the heck is going on?
I mean and I hate to say this – but this is like throwing mud on a wall and seeing what sticks. I don’t get it. It’s all the more frustrating when you combine this with the total lack of urgency they show. I don’t want them to panic but do they think RW is going to be playing at this level in 5 years? I mean, GB just drafted a QB in R1…and Rodgers is *only* 36.
I have no doubt that RW will play until he is 40. ZERO doubt. But that’s not the point – he is playing at an elite level and you need to do everything to take advantage of that. They aren’t doing it.
“That’s my biggest gripe with him over the last few years. He coaches a team he doesn’t have in a league that no longer exists.”
Agreed.
Harsh, but some truth to it.
However, we’ve also talked extensively about how teams can still with with his philosophy. Pound the ball, don’t give up the big play, create turnovers, win the clock and field position battle.
The off-season isn’t over yet. I think we’ll have a lot more information by this time next week.
The resource investment was already heavy at LB. Adding a LB in the draft is a path to right size the investment in the coming years. As fans, we all clamor for immediate results and focus on the next season. The GM needs to think longer term.
I was as shocked as everyone else that we picked a LB in RD1, but I can see the logic with Wags / KJ getting older.
I imagine this was a really difficult year to identify players that fit the Seahawks profile with limited data from the combine and pro days. For what it’s worth, I thought you did an outstanding job in pre-draft content and coverage Rob. I’m excited to see who they take today and how it aligns with your pre-draft analysis.
It isn’t just KJ and Wagner getting older. It is that going into yesterday, Kendricks was unsigned with Cody Barton as the top reserve on the roster. That was an obvious need that was overlooked with the overwhelming focus on the need for improving the pass rush.
I fully agree there, though there are multiple talking points making the rounds. This was meant to address the “This was a 4th round LB taken in the 1st” concern that many have expressed.
this is the part you never really know unless you’re closer to things than we are. maybe we could have had Brooks later — but there was likely risk – and that risk wasn’t worth the differential to get player X, that happens to be higher on the draft expert boards.
Hey Rob….do you or anyone else know the details of why GB backed out of the deal with JS? I’m assuming JS was asking for more than the 4th rounder Miami agreed to….??
So they panic picked? Or possibly they just went BPA on their board? Either way the pick of Jordyn Brooks at that time given the other needs and value is inexcusable. I’m not against picking a LB, just not Brooks in round one. Maybe Brooks at the end of round two or beginning of round three. I’m so frustrated right now, I need a hot bath…*commencing hot bath*
No, they didn’t “panic”. They always have a contingency. Chances are they planned to move back to 30 and take the same player. With that plan falling apart, possibly with the concern they might lose their guy if they moved to far, they simply took him.
Our 1st pick was a need that I thought about and I had used my 64th pick for. I’m looking at 59, 64, and 101 to day. I can still pull off getting today 3 of my 4 players on my draft. It would have to be my 1st pick happens to drop to 59. If Raekwon Davis is at 59 I would take if he not then I probably will have Madubuike or Blacklock to choose from. We have a need for DT and 59 is my spot to get it. I would run to the podium if Chase Claypool his there and take him. He’s such a talented pick that Seattle looks for and I just don’t think they walk away. We have hit the draft in the 2nd round with WR from Notre Dame when we drafted Golden Tate. A.J. Dillion always felt like the perfect fit at pick 101. Today I’m not sure if he’ll be there so I’m hoping he slides in.
59 Raekwon Davis DT need; options Blacklock or Madubuike
64 Chase Claypool WR Can’t walk away from the most talented WR draft without one
101 A.J. Dillion RB need
133 Hakeen Adeniji T Can’t walk away without a talent on the offense
144 Trevis Gipson DE need I still intend to get one in FA
214 Bravvion Roy DT need A run stuffer DT for woods spot
There’s my play going forward with what I got. Trying to fill my needs for the team. Rob I have to ask this. Does picking Davis at 37 and I get him at 59 does he count as a success full pick? If so I had Clay Pool at 59, if I get him at 64 then iwould have 2/3 of my picks in this mock and I would take that as a win.
Here’s to hoping a combination of the following at 59 and 64 (or a trade up):
DE – Okwara/Zuniga/Taylor
DT – Hamilton/Davis/Maduibike
RB – Taylor/Dobbins/Swift
WR – Edwards/Claypool/Mims/Hamler
While I appreciate the OL talent and depth, I feel those 4 position groups would get good year one impact in positions of need. That is 13 names. Only need 19 other names to go before.
Ideally I’d love to go
59 – DE Zuniga – Best combo of athleticism and tape of the available options in that range
64 – DT Hamilton – Great run stuffer with pass rush potential
101 – Duverney/Van Jefferson – Great seperators who would be great #3 WR immediately
133 – RB – James Robinson? – Haven’t watched but lines up with Rob’s value
144 – OL prospect – Alex Taylor – go for upside and potential
214 – ST ace/NCB – Javelin Guidry – elite speed and potential
Can’t wait for an exciting night! Here’s to seeing more clearly what their plan is. Excellent job with the Huddle Report Mock Rob. Truly a talented evaluator.
I really hope Zuniga and Hamilton are there at 59 and 64 and we take them both. That would go along way to helping our D line.
The more intel I’ve gathered from drafting Brooks from the media the more I’m liking this pick. It may not be a sexy pick but. The kid’s 40 yard dash was clocked at 4.54 and he was recovering from a leg injury with no training for the combine. However, just like what the “professor John Clayton” said its a sold pick but, the emphasis must be to upgrade the DE position moving forward. Clowney must be the priority! And, JC and PC can address OT and RB with our two picks in the second round. You can clearly see the youth movement on defense the last two years. And, hopefully Collier second year in the system can make step forward.
I would literally bet my life that John Clayton has never seen Brooks play and didn’t even know who he was until his name was called. And I’m sure during the radio segment, Clayton called him the wrong name everytime, lol.
I’m just taking shots at Clayton – who is hilarious, IMO.
The Professor knows everything. He has so much time with social distancing in his mom’s basement…lol
LOL…
It’s just like clockwork that when I do listen to him (occasionally) – he’s just completely butchering people’s names…poor guy.
“Seahawks are hoping to resign Jedarion Clooney.”
“AJ Collett needs to take the next step this coming year at the 5T.”
“I really think Jericho Jonas can compete for the RG position in 2020.”
It’s almost time to rewatch Draft Day. Let’s get this 2nd rd started. Who’s that GM’s name in Jacksonville “Rookie”…haha
It is such a terrible movie that I so very much enjoy. Truly – I love that movie and fully recognize how ridiculous it is.
Jeff Carson of Jacksonville with the horrendous trade, lol.
Everybody knew Bo Callahan was a bust. LOL
If only he would’ve attended his teammates Bday party. We’d be talking about a GOAT.
Don’t forget how he lied about reading the playbook and getting the $100 Bill. Maybe that’s a downfall of hiring P. Diddy as your agent?
He did have great hair though.
“Seahawks fans want a hero and you denied them! Don’t like to me! I checked all the fan blogs and they’re all calling for your head!”
That and the “you pancake-eating mother f****r” insult convince the Seahawks’ GM to make the trade.
“Seahawks fans want a hero and you denied them! Don’t lie to me! I checked all the fan blogs and they’re all calling for your head!”
That and the “you pancake-eating mother f****r” insult convince the Seahawks’ GM to make the trade.
Was driving last night when the 9ers were on the clock and one of the radio guys said he asked Clayton if the 9ers would consider trading out of the 13th pick and JC flat out said “No, no way”. A minute later they traded the pick… I was dying. The radio guy was loving it.
LOL – literally maybe the least knowledgeable football guy who somehow was a national guy and has his own radio show. God bless America, lol.
Ummm. You guys do know that John Clayton is in the Hall of Fame right?
Doesn’t make him immune from some playful ribbing. I love Clayton, but he’s trying to focus on a million things these days. He’s become a jack of all trades, master of none.
If DE is a priority, why would we go OT and RB with our round 2 picks?
Me crossing my fingers and asumming they address the DE with Clowney. Like Rob said, we can’t waste Wilson prime.
How’s this for a comp?
NaVorro Bowman
Not seeing it.
Rob,
What are the odds that Seattle trade down from 59 and picking up a pick between 67-72? They still have 64, pick very early in the 3rd, and get another pick or two. Or, like 27, do they just stick put and pick the best player on the board?
I don’t know what you’d get in return. A R5? A late R4? Not much value to trade down. They could do — but you’re not adding a R3 trading down from #59 or #64.
I’d rather see them go all in and package 133, 144 and maybe a future 4th rounder to get back into the 3rd. Go ahead and save 214 for a UDFA that you have to have. Otherwise – go get 5 guys you really like (27-59-64-Trade for 3rd-101) + your late round flyer and work UDFA.
This is not the year to stack up on R5-R7 picks.
To me, DT has always been the most pressing need for us in the draft. I would argue, even over EDGE. I think we can cobble together a rotation of Green/Collier at 5T and Bruce/Mayowa at LEO. Certainly not the greatest, but DT has no depth and I’m not sure we want Poona in there full-time anyway.
With that being said, I think that DaVon Hamilton is the guy we can’t live without. Earlier in the year, I would have leaned Raekwon, but I’m questioning if he’s even on our board. The interview with Rob and the concerns about his maturity have me questioning his culture fit. When John talked about the two Zoom meetings where one guy wore a suit and tie and the other laid in bed with the TV on, my first thought was Raekwon. That may not be fair, but he just doesn’t come across as a guy who loves the game and is hungry to be the best. His interview with the Cowboys is on YouTube and you can hear his stereo blaring in the background. Hamilton is charismatic, engaging and a student of the game. I think this will resonate with Pete. He also checks all of the boxes we’ve talked about for DL.
If I’m guessing at a DE, I’m thinking Okwara for the same reasons as Hamilton, as well as the ‘bloodlines’.
That being said, John could just as easily draft a guard with a 5th round grade and another Safety who hits hard.
Makes sense to me (Hamilton).
This could be two D-line picks today.
Maybe even two DE’s.
Idk. We typically keep 4 or 5 DE and Collier, Green, Irvin and Mayowa appear like near locks to be four of them. I suppose they could count Green or Collier as a DT though.
Any gut calls on who that might be?
I would hope Raquan Davis, Davion Hamilton and Zuniga would be 3 they are looking at
Leki Fotu and Curtis Weaver.
I would love to see Hamilton and Zuniga today. I am still hoping to win the Field Gulls draft challenge so I can say in my comments how I get the best draft insights from this site 🙂. Does that make me a jerk?
Here’s what I’d like to see today:
59: DT or Pass Rusher
64: DT or Pass Rusher (whichever you didn’t get at 59)
80: RB Cam Akers
101: WR Devin Duvernay
Trade 133, 144 and a future pick to get one of the Raider’s picks at 80 (or 81).
Honestly I’m just glad they didn’t pick Taylor. Really high mileage and fumbles all the time. RB seems like less of a need than LB and the drop off after 1 or 2 guys seems way steeper. We have two solid options and mid rounds backs have been performing just as well as guys taken outside the top 5.
If we assume that they’ll sign Clowney or Griffen (or trade for Ngakoue after the draft) this makes more sense.
He adds speed, aggression, high football IQ and instincts, all the stuff they want. Given the way the board fell there are a ton of great players in R2 at a bunch of positions.
Not what I wanted, not what I expected, but all the weeping and gnashing of teeth and calling for PCJS to be fired and guys getting drunk and lashing out is just embarrassing.
Those are some pretty massive assumptions…why not just sign pass rushers when you had the chance and cap space? Doesn’t it seem a little reckless to have play chicken on the most critical need that has held this team back?
I can’t speak for everybody, but most of us who didn’t like the pick don’t necessarily dislike the player. We dislike how this offseason process has gone. I think it’s key to make that distinction.
I really have no doubt that Brooks will be a good player, but how does he get you closer to winning a Super Bowl with this current roster the way it stands? That’s the question.
How does solving another running back with massive fumbling problems get you closer to a Super Bowl? And yet the group think in the comments has already selected Taylor’s gold jacket and decided that not spending our first pick on a fourth RB will doom us to eternal irrelevance.
You build a team to win your division. Our division has three teams that have killed us with field stretching runs that we have been too slow sideline to sideline to stop. We need speed and aggression. We need to stop the run and be better at tackling. They seem to feel like they’ve added that with Diggs and Dunbar and now Brooks. Maybe they’re wrong, but I understand the thought process.
Judging an off season before it’s over is like judging a season by the first game. Remember when the Pats got their asses kicked in the first game of the season and everyone talked about how they were done, then they won the SB? All that matters is how the off season in its totality plays out.
Maybe that will be bad! It’s certainly possible. But I’ll withhold judgement until we see how it all plays out. And all of the moaning in the comments has just been excessive.
Where did I say passing on Taylor doomed us?
Yes, you do build a team to win your division – so is our plan to literally generate no pass rush? SF, LA, and AZ don’t run the 2018 LSU offense. They all have dynamic passing games predicated off of different variables. SF has a complex run game with a dynamic TE that will torch you. AZ spreads you out with an insanely mobile QB and now a bevvy of pass catchers. LA has one of the most creative/complex offenses that generates easy completions for their QB when given time. Again – these teams aren’t running student body left or right. The easiest way to combat these teams is to create a pass rush with your front 4 – we don’t have that in the slightest.
If Pete’s goal is to shut down the run game at the cost of pass rush – we are going to witness a lot of losing football next year. It’s 2020 – and the 3 other coaches in our division have dynamic minds/schemes when it comes to the passing game. If you are going to give them all day because you don’t have a pass rush – even Jared Goff will tear you apart, which he has done to us.
Of course the offseason isn’t over, but you predicated your first comment with “assuming they resign Clowney or Griffen or trade for Yannick. So until they do that – I think it’s fair game to say, “what are we doing here?”
Here’s a simple yes or no question; as of right now – are the Seahawks better than last year? If yes, why?
Never said you personally stated that, but come on man read the comments. Lot of overwrought despair.
You know, when you describe our opponents it almost sounds like a great way to combat what they do would be a fast, smart, great tackler in the middle of the field. Maybe add quality at safety and corner to give the rush more time. Too bad they didn’t do that, huh?
Here’s a simple answer to your simple question: we are better than we were last year at the same point in the year. Comparing a finished product to one in the middle of the process is like taking a bite out of fried chicken before you cook it and declaring the meal a disaster.
Complaining they didn’t draft a running back or offensive tackle and then saying that the pick they did make is bad because it didn’t help our poor pass rush is an odd assessment.
Honestly Jhams? I’m right there with you about being releived they didn’t go Taylor. For different reasons. And I really like Taylor as a talent.
The CEH pick by KC told me you better be able to catch the ball as a RB in today’s NFL if you want to sniff the 1st round.
I’d take CEH over any of the others every day of the week, but he’s outside the measurements Seattle has as cutoffs. It was always just a beautiful dream. And outside of him, I don’t like Swift or Taylor or Dobbins more than someone like Akers you can get later.
How would you guys feel if we had drafted Patrick Queen? Any different?
I would have felt better for 2 reasons: Queen is 2 years younger, but more importantly – his specialty his high end coverage ability.
I still think they should have gone a different direction but I would have been more sold on “this guy is a weapon defending the pass game.” I’m less enthused about a downhill LBer. Again – would have preferred a different direction in general.
Pete Carrol specifically said they would likely draft older mature character guys due to the Covid Virus and potentially not getting these rookies into camp. I expect to see a theme this draft based on his comments.
Ok…not sure what that has to do with my answer, but duly noted.
I prefer Brooks over Queen
I prefer the Seahawk over the non-Seahawk!
I’m not a big Patrick Queen guy, so personally? Yes.
Doubt Gay is on their board too. And then there’s basically no-one that we’d want while the other position groups are pretty much stackes still
What if Seattle always plan to trade back and get Brooks. A new scenario on for you all. Brooks could allow up to let Wright go saying close to 7.7 million and Britt gets us 9 million. The year goes on after the draft and Jax finally like Clowney last year decide to get him. Seattle make a deal to get him for a 1st next year or just a 2 round pick and now have the money to sign him to a 4 year deal going forward. I think this would be better than getting Griffin in FA.
Here’s the plan. It’s a good one. Draft the BPA. Do not reach for need unless it’s close and pressing. Sign FA and trade to fill the holes.
Exactly. I hope this is not a one time thing, because they have not done this with their first pick over the last few years. I trust the scouting system the Hawks have. When picking for need they probably had other players on their board they could have taken that would have helped the team over the long term. I am happy to see this change.
This whole offseason reminds me of reading a Sherlock Holmes or Hercule Poirot book. For the first 75% of the book, you have some idea of what is going on and what the detective is seeing/thinking/learning. Then, when it comes to the reveal, a new clue that was never shared is the keystone to putting it all together.
I feel like I’m waiting for that piece we haven’t been told, a piece that would have this all make sense. If Clowney and Griffen both are waiting to sign, Brooks makes more sense. If no Edge is picked today, maybe that’s another clue.
All that being said, I’m trying to think which position makes the least sense to target now. Without trading back to get another pick, I don’t see them addressing all the holes. Do they skip OL because they signed two dozen of them? Are they really that happy with the DEs signed?
I could see it falling out as:
Round 2: DT, WR (Davis/Hamilton and Claypool)
Round 3: RB (Moss)
Round 4: OL, NCB (Adeniji or Dotson, Vildor or Reid)
Round 6: Knowing them, some DE longshot like Ron’Dell Carter or Derrek Tuszka
Then again, what do I know? I’m still trying to piece it all together.
I think people are rushing to say the Seahawks are doing a bad job, when we don’t have the complete picture. Free agency is not over. The draft is not over. If at the end of all this we end up with Benson Mayowa and Bruce Irvin as our two main pass rushers, I will gladly raise my pitch forks with you.
But right now people are criticizing the Seahwawks because they don’t make their moves at the timeline convenient for Seahawks fans. Let it play out, yes the plan is hard to see right now, but that does not mean that there is not a plan. John Schneider seemed thrilled yesterday about how the offseason has gone so far. Lets give him the benefit of the doubt and see what happens rest of the offseason. Criticism is fine but man its so unfair to say the seahawks don’t have plan, when we haven’t seen the full offseason unfold.
On the flipside, easy with the rose-colored glasses there. Pete admitted that drafting a LB was not even in the plan for this year. So there you go, this was not actually part of the plan. Their tree down plan fell apart and they had to do something else. Drafting the LB just happened. That is sufficient reason for fans to be disappointed or upset that we’re not filling glaring needs. I’m not going to get into the two opposing philosophies of drafting for need versus drafting BPA, that is for another time. However, it is commonly known that GMs consistently communicate the BS message that they are drafting BPA, when in fact they are almost always drafting for need. It would be challenging to get all of your needs met if you never drafted for need, and just drafted BPA. Something to think about.
So, what could they still achieve?
This is what I got, ruthlessly trading back to amass some mid round picks
27.Jordyn Brooks OLB Texas Tech
87. Chase Claypool WR Notre Dame
91.Robert Hunt OT Louisiana
101. Ashtyn Davis S Cal
121. Shane Lemieux G Oregon
133. Robert Windsor DT Penn State
137. Hunter Bryant TE Washington
139. Michael Ojemudia CB Iowa
173. James Smith-Williams DE NC State
214. Zack Moss RB Utah
227. Jon Runyan Jr. G Michigan
I would be happy with this draft, I think it addresses most of the team needs. I miss the extra picks to fill additional roster needs, sigh!
27 Jordyn Brooks
59 Julian Okwara
61 Justin Madubuike
101 Donovan Peoples Jones
133 Hakeem Adeniji
145 Kindle Vildor
214 Michael Warren
Still a chance for a solid draft, keep hope alive! Not that they’ll actually pick any of these dudes, but I was able to come up with this on the PFN Sim:
27. Jordyn Brooks, OLB Texas Tech
59. Robert Hunt, OT Louisiana
74. Darrell Taylor, EDGE Tennessee
101. Bryan Edwards, WR South Carolina
111. Leki Fotu, DT Utah
171. Joe Reed, WR UVA
187. Alex Taylor, OT SC State
218. Julian Blackmon, CB Utah
238. Teair Tart, DT Florida International
247. Rico Dowdle, RB South Carolina
2021 WAS 7th
Where do I sign?
Those are decent players, just missing a better RB but you are going to have to sacrifice something after taking Brooks. I still think that third RB is more important than the third WR.
Dowdle is a good Seahawk type RB. Great value if available in 7th
round one gave me covid-like symptoms… i find myself trying to justify this pick, just wish i wasn’t.
So they want guys that can step in and play day 1 with limited time before the start of the season. Who fits that bill on the defensive line? Davis? Okwara? Zuniga?
Zuniga and Okwara less. Maybe as a 3rd down EDGE options.
Davis in the middle.
DaVon Hamilton I think is plug and play.
Really hoping we end up with Hamilton and one of the receiver options like Claypool or Edwards. Mims will be long gone before we pick.
Is Seattle changing their MO? Picking BPA over need. If they are looking more to speed are they going to overlook arm length in a DT? Why did they have a visit with Blacklock? Do you think they could take him with the 59th pick if he is available?
Nobody. Maybe Davon Hamilton if he is there.
Or…wait for it…AJ Espenesa. Imagine all the freaking out that would commence.
In fact that is my guess. A guy who can contribute to 5 tech day one.
Wow some guy guessed Jordyn Brooks on twitter yesterday based on Carroll’s clue lol
Really? I thought Pete said no one did?
Here it is: https://twitter.com/Bigruss711/status/1253403175517687809
I think Pete must have missed it.
Oh wow. Ok.
Are the clues in order though? Is that what Pete meant by no one got it? Did he just miss like you said?
It’s a total crapshoot, lol
How could somebody get this if Pete never intended to draft the guy in the first place? Drafted him was only a last-minute decision based on the tree down deal falling apart. Don’t get this.
Wanted to draft him at 30 anyways. 🤷♂️
Someone get Mr. Russell Massey to join this site! LOL
I wonder how Seattle viewed Kenneth Murray? Did the Bolts intuition tell them Seattle and Baltimore (especially) were targeting a LB? Just saw a talented player sitting there and couldn’t pass up the value? A little of both?
I was also asking myself the same question. I think they go with Murray. I know I do.
I think the Bolts just went with the value talent on the board, no specific intuition. Plus, we were planning on trading down anyways.
I have heard there are issues with Murray. He looks great when he guesses the right gap, not so great when he guesses wrong.
The consensus top 4 LB went in R1
Wouldnt be surprised if their LB board is bare cupboards after Logan Wilson
I’ve been thinking about this and past drafts how the cliffs at different positions dictate our picks much more than our specific needs.
On top of that, GB, DAL, NO, NE, KC are all still in need of LB help. That cliff is going to come quickly if it hasn’t already.
Hey Everyone! I didn’t read this entire thread response because it’s MASSIVE (nice job building a great community, Rob).
Apologies if this has been covered, but maybe John and Pete are looking at this draft as part 1 of a 2 part draft for the 2021 season. Maybe the EDGE FA class next year is promising, and we are filling team holes in the next 2 drafts that are not promising in FA. Also, why throw away 15 mil on an edge if there’s no season.
I feel like the possibility of this NFL season making it to the SB is slim, given the vaccine is at least 18 months out – and you can’t tackle anyone from 6 feet away (unless you’re going up against Sean Alexander :/
Sorry to be a downer about the season, but hedging your bet towards 2021 seems like the smart play here.
So looking at the clues we are still looking for a guy with a long wingsplan that can “fly” right?
Or do we consider Brooks to be the guy since he has a long wingspan for a LB..
Are there any WR/CBs left with long wingspans??
Michael Jacquet talked to the Hawks and has a crazy long wingspan.
It will be after the draft that they will address the LEO spot because they really need to replace it with a proven veteran. I think they always planned to draft Brooks to replace Wright and trading down to get more picks would have made his pick worth more but it didn’t happen.
Yannick Ngakoue is not happy in Jax and the longer he waits the lower his price comes down. Letting Britt and Wright go early I think would free up enough money to sign a proven veteran talent for the next 4 years at a most needed position. The question is what is the trade price now this year draft will be spent. Do you trade next years 1st or 2nd round pick to get a guy for 4 years?
Zierlein’s Day 2 mock has us getting Ezra Cleveland and Raekwon Davis. I expect some of you might shut up if that happens 🙂
That would be lovely.
Two decent players but do we want an edge rusher?
Darrell Taylor further back in the draft yes. At this point I’d rather Hamilton, or double dip and get him and Davis to really build that line.
Taylor isnt going to even make it to 101, so he wont be there further back. Maybe another guy.
Hard to tell with the injury history and lack of medicals. I’d be ok-ish with using one of our seconds on him, depending on who the other was.
Perhaps. Hard to shut up when we have such serious needs and then pick a linebacker. According to Pete selecting a LB wasn’t really even part of the plan.
Would that not be too obvious?? No way
Or Hamilton + Wanogho
Or Fotu + Niang
Or Agim + Hunt + Edwards…yes please!
Or Tart + A. Taylor + Akers + A. Gibson + T. Gibson
Lot’s of options left for them…
I will never shut up. That’s the cowards way out.
No way this will happen.
Ezra C will not pass the Rams, and this is by far the latest imaginable spot.
Not a great fan of Raekwon Davis, he will fall into mid to late round 3, IMO.
There are very few players I grade high enough to stay in late R2. Better max the 3rd-5th round span by acquiring a couple of picks.
Wooow first day my restaurant is open and we were slammed!! That was so fun. Miss this smoke
What and where is it?
The WildFin at Point Ruston. To Go only, but we’d love the visit!!
We hit our sales goal in half the shift- glorious
Sweet!!!
I haven’t wanted a single player in recent memory more than I want Raekwon Davis. I would fight my mom if it meant we get him. I think he’s going to be an absolute star. Which of course means the Rams will take him right before us and we end up taking Evan Weaver or something.
Petes clues are obviously more convoluted than this but my picks for today based off of his first.
A volunteer army- Tennessee, Darrell Taylor
Ole Miss “Rebels”- Marlon Davidson
Huge Ship from the Evil Empire- Raekwon Davis from Alabama
Didn’t Marlon Davidson play for Auburn…?
Oops, that was a stinker
I went with the Voluteer fleet one, though!
Per Breer:
Rapoport also reported the Dolphins earlier. Probably too far to trade up, but at yesterday’s going rate, who knows? So if we do want to trade up that far, partners could be:
Pats at 37
Fins at 39
Indy at 44 (and 34, but unlikely).
Who would we trade up for?
Maybe Jonathan Taylor if he lasts to 37?
or JK Dobbins or Robert Hunt maybe
Lol, the Bengals want to move down out of 33 as well. Looks like literally everyone sees the value later.
What do people think the three positions will be today assuming its three picks?
I say they trade back once and add a day 3 pick, then go OL, DT, EDGE…just not sure what order!
Robert Hunt
Leki Fotu
Darrell Taylor
I’m thinking DL, WR and RB. Which means PCJS is thinking S, another LB and K.
You would think one for sure would have to be edge? Then DT, OT, RB and WR could be the other three options? Maybe CB (Robertson) as well? RB you could get with one of your fourths. Just tough guessing who the three positions will be. I would say Edge, WR, and OT.
DE
RB
DT
In no particular order
1 QB that interviewed well and has grit
2 OG, because, why not. They like like seeing ‘”of course, classic PC/JS pick”
3 Safety, because we draft a few a year and love competition (see 1 and 2)
We won’t draft DE, DT, OT because we don’t want to force the board and look like everyone else, not trendy.
Hey Rob – Thank you for another year of amazingly hard work!!
I know you haven’t had the chance to look at a ton of Brooks tape just yet, but I was wondering if you could see the Seahawks trying Brooks at a hybrid LB/S ‘Moneybacker’ or rover type of role?
I have seen some articles and analysts questioning his coverage ability, but John Schneider seemed to laugh those concerns off in the post-draft presser.
I’d love to hear some thoughts from other Seahawks fans out there!
The Seahawks are a very conventional offense. They haven’t really used a moneybacker.
Thoughts on round one:
The hawks were planning to trade with Green Bay at 30 for 27 and middle round pick. So they were planning on picking at 30 and they would’ve taken Brooks at pick 30. So who cares about the trade? They were going to take Brooks regardless.
They just drafted KJ’s replacement. I know Pete and John would never say that in a press conference. But that’s how I feel. Now they have a hedge for cutting Wright and Britt( because they have Finny and Hunt) to sign a defensive end weather it be Griffen, Clowney, or a trade.
They will draft a defensive end today as hedge for not getting a big fish in free agency (Clowney, Griffen or trade)
I’ve been going over it in my head since last night and this is most sense I could make of it. They could get a way better hedge for KJ in the first round then they could for Clowney. So in my head that makes sense. Thoughts?
Could be. I still think they get one of Clowney/Griffen/Yannick
For sure they were taking Brooks at 30 unless someone took him at 27 or 29. Im completely good with the pick but it does seem more like a pick for 2021.
I agree with Kingdome as they will either have Clowney or Griffen at some point, not sure about Ngakoue. They just went with there board and thats good enough for me. They saw Brooks as a better fit for them versus say Okwara or Uche or someone else.
I think their intent this year was to draft best player available. I don’t think KJ entered into their choice.
On the failed trade, it would have been nice to have that extra pick.
There are not good choices at edge. I think they go for a DT, better choices there.
We gave up 4.9 yards a rush last year and it wasn’t the DLine.
It was KJ and Kendricks. Our OLB. We got killed on outside runs last year. Because KJ is too damn slow to defend them and Kendricks plays like he rubbed crisco over his arms.
This, as well as nickle corner, was a bigger weakness than pass rush IMO. One of the reasons I had them trading out of the first and getting Willie Gay.
If we want to compete in 2021 one of the things to fix is our atrocious run defense and this is the way to fix it. The other being our pass defense with a nickle corner. (Like Dunbar).
Getting a speedy run defending WIL to replace KJ is absolutely a 2020 move.
That must be part of it, I think Brooks will end up starting at all three spots, playing with KJ and Wagner to start with, then replacing KJ and resigning to take over for Wagner, that is my optimistic take. Zuniga seems like the Clowney hedge to me, they wanted a LEO but I think yesterday showed why they signed Irvin and Mayowa, they did not like the draft options. Hamilton and Davis are key today, they need one of those guys to give the LB’s a shot to make plays. Seems like were headed for a deep uninspiring rotation on the DL.
So the progression is: Kendricks -> KJ -> Bobby
ESPN had us taking Madubuike at 59 and Okwara at 64. How would people feel about that?
Not my favorite players, but at least it would be a clear shot at filling our biggest need!
I’d be okay with that, but one thing PCJS have taught us is that no one is going to correctly predict what they do, especially ESPN.
Did Tunsil just get $22m a year?
Yes.
Wow that is fat. Wasnt the highest $18.5? I dont see why these teams have to beat the next one by so much.
See tweets above: https://seahawksdraftblog.com/looking-ahead-to-day-two#comment-496889
He had them cornered.
Texans just continue to baffle. Not only do they screw things up for themselves they screw it up for the rest of the league.
And the $18.5APY was largely fake money. I think the most real APY before this was around $16m. BoB is so bad at GMing…
Per Breer:
Crazy how teams have such different opinions on players. Another reason why you just never know what a team is going to do.
Andy Reid got his new version of Brian Westbrook. What a tremendous fit.
To me the best fit of the draft. I know next year in fantasy I would take him in the first round.
One hour to go boys.
Hello from tomorrow…
A new draft clue to help us pass the time:
https://twitter.com/PeteCarroll/status/1253806607957295104
Presented by Rob Riggle: What do The Maltese Falcon, Stepbrothers, and True Romance movies all have in common?
They’re drafting a prostitute?
They all involve a duo. A twosome on the move.
Zuniga and Greenard?
Trouble seems to be the clue.
In ‘True Romance’ he steals the suitcase full of cocaine. Trouble follows.
In ‘Maltese Falcon’ he takes the case from Mrs. Wonderly. Trouble follows
In ‘Step Brothers’ they move in together. Trouble follows.
All films based out of California
Watch them draft Ashtyn Davis and Cole Kmet today…
Go Haw… *cough cough cough…
HaHa, hang in there Sea Mode! We’re gonna get through this…together!
👍
I have been having a recurring dream where Seattle drafts a Pro-Bowl quality offensive player at pick 64 for the second year in a row. Claypool? Mims? Pittman? Hamler? A RB?
Last night we won the SB so we would have pick 64 next year too…
This is my dream as well! It WILL happen! Book it, Danno!
My hope is Claypool. Closest to DK I can think of.
Mims. I can feel it.
Once my initial fury wore off, I kind of understood it (I hope). If you have basically zero difference in the way you grade players like Okwara/Gross-Mateo and Jabari Zuniga, then I don’t see why you spend the 1st for either of the former. Ideally you trade down, but this is similar in logic and need to dropping the 1st on a RB. It does however now feel like they are either pigeonholed into addressing certain positions on day two, or simply leaving deep holes in the roster unfilled now.
I like the duos idea Vol brought up for the latest clues. All three movies feature a duo.
Here are some possibilities:
Zach Baun and Jonathan Taylor
Jaylon Johnson and Bradly Anae
Greenard and Zuniga
Okwara and Claypool
Zach Moss and Jaylon Johnson
Raekwon Davis and Terrelle Lewis
Rob, is there any chance that Pete and John were thinking leo when they drafted Brooks?
Although he’s maybe a little undersized for the Leo role he is a twitch type athlete with a high rev motor.
Several of his hits reminded of my all time favorite Hawk another “thumper” “Bam-Bam Kam.
Watch the film and you will see that time and time again Brooks is the guy making the tackle or he is in on the tackle. Once he locks onto the QB or RB he is like a heat seeking missile. Hard to shake and uses his speed to literally run people down. Dare I say a tackling machine with a ton of power. He rarely misses or loses He seems to really enjoy hitting and beats the brakes off of people when making contact. Has great form and stays with the play until he’s sure the ball carrier is in the dirt.
Aside from the two off games where he DOES look like he’s dragging butt. I didn’t find this type of performance to be typical or a pattern with Brooks. We sometimes forget that these guys aren’t super heroes but human beings and human beings get sick,injured or simply have a bad day at the office. he looks to have a non stop motor on him as well. Rumor has it he was dealing with the flu and receiving IV fluids just to be able to play in the Oklahoma game and was nursing an injury in the Ole Miss game the other game the opponents to this draft pick love to site.
I like this pick and will like it a whole lot more if over the final couple of days of the draft John and Pete take care of our glaring needs on the D-line.
Would also love to see them sign E.Griffen. I think he’s a better leader than Clowney and he’s one of Pete’s guys from the SC days.
FYI… Back to Jordyn Brooks. He is faster than the 4.53 he ran at the combine. It’s a known fact that he had an ankle injury at the combine and almost wasn’t going to run at all. When healthy he has consistently ran the fourty in the 4.40-4.44 range.
Relax ppeople……. I think those that are freaking out about this pick right now are going to feel silly later on and by later on I mean in 2020. {if the season isn’t canceled} When this guy is defensive rookie of the year! Or at least has a great rookie season.
No Brooks isn’t a LEO at all.
Very much a thumping LB.
Maybe you are right. But I sure don’t need to be told to relax my friend.
Fellow Seahawks Enthusiasts-
Long time reader, first time poster. Have always enjoyed robs writing and subsequent discourse on the board. I don’t know what else to say here that hasn’t been said about mr brooks and I’m certainly surprised that he was BPA on their board. As a badger fan I love JT but the Chiefs and our own qb have shown that you can be successful on the cheap in your backfield and going late or udfa is a better bet. At minimum, I think if they draft 1 wr for depth and spend the rest speeding up the defense, you’ve improved the team. I 100% agree that the pass rush is the top priority but I never thought that could be done through the draft. I also think they’re signing Clooney and Griffey both. You heard it here last from a guy who has been drinking since lunch. Cheers to all of you – the offseason is still not complete.
Loving these picks, of our guys still on the board
I’m Loving these picks, of our guys still on the board
Trade up!?
We all don’t know if they are drafting the right guys but this time we can be pretty sure that they get exactly the guys they want. I am hyped! I am so glad we went with the physical upside instead of the boring high floor guys.
Well I am quite sure that this will not be posted as the last one I tried was rejected on some grounds. But here we go. I really like your site and it is a go to. But let up on the damn pass rush already! Man I am getting sick of you railing on the staff of the Hawks when they year in and year out are near the top of the league not in stats but in wins.They are in nearly every game at the end. So while critics are not a bad thing for the game for crying out loud give them the benefit of the doubt. They are doing the best with the hand that is dealt of which neither of us is privy to much of the real picture. And the way they do business is getting the job done pretty well.