Jason La Canfora mocked Noah Spence to the Seahawks today
Where are the special players?
The guys who are unique athletes? The guys who stand out?
This is a nice deep class overall — but there aren’t many players projected to go in the top-40 that scream ‘Seahawks’.
In the middle rounds you can come up with several examples:
Joe Haeg and Joe Dahl — explosive, long offensive tackles expected to kick inside
Connor McGovern — Missouri coached, tough and extremely explosive with the ability to emulate Mitch Morse
Tyler Ervin — an electric playmaker who plays big despite his size and has a fantastic attitude
Devon Cajuste — SPARQ demon who run blocks brilliantly, maxes out his targets and has a quirky ‘Seahawks’ receiver personality
Joel Heath — up for the challenge, incredibly athletic and could convert to the O-line
There’s also a whole host of athletic defensive backs expected to be available on day three that fit Seattle’s criteria.
Yet in terms of that perfect combination of grit, athleticism, upside and production — there aren’t a ton of options at #26.
Jonathan Bullard is a nice overall prospect — but he has limitations. Bob McGinn put out a piece today on defensive linemen and here’s the blurb on Bullard:
Considered coming out a year ago. “He was smart,” said one scout. “He had a heck of a year for them. Played his (expletive) off. He can play 3- or 5-technique. Is he a great player? No. Solid rotational player.” Finished with 175 tackles (34 for loss) and 12 sacks. Described as an “overachiever” by a second scout. “More of a strength than finesse player,” a third scout said. “He does not have the explosiveness or twitch that you’d like shedding blocks. His pass rush has no personality or power. His only source of quarterback harassment was a collapsing power rush. He’s not around the ball like he should.”
There’s a lot to like about Bullard’s game — but are the Seahawks really going to draft a “solid rotational player” in round one given their previous trends?
Vernon Butler has a nice physical profile and the players at Louisiana Tech appeared to gravitate towards him. Is he a pass rusher though? Not yet. Is he only ever going to be a one (or a three) in Seattle and is that worth a high pick in this defense?
It’s a big question on Butler — who appears to be a big favourite among NFL scouts. He does have a ton of upside though and he could be one to watch if he lasts. Here’s McGinn’s notes on Butler:
Can play anywhere across the front. “He wore a single-digit jersey, No. 9, that really made him stand out in terms of his movement skills,” said one scout. “I wouldn’t classify him as a grinder type of D-lineman. He really relies on his athletic ability. He’s got a lot of potential.” Finished with 170 tackles (29 ½ for loss) and 5 sacks. “He’s got some quickness for a big man,” said a second scout. “He’s more of a nose but he has some movement skills. He can push the pocket and get an edge on occasion.” Long arms (35). From Summit, Miss. “His body balance, bend, acceleration is very good,” a third scout said. “He’s a big finesse athlete. This year, he used his hands much better and played with better strength. He’s a little bit of a goofball, in a good way. Not a bad kid. Athletic as hell. You need the right D-line coach and then coach the crap out of him.”
For what it’s worth, McGinn has him as the #3 defensive end in the draft behind only Joey Bosa and DeForest Buckner. He might not make it to #26.
Chris Jones has plenty of upside — but there are major concerns about his character. Here’s more from Bob McGinn:
Quintessential underachiever. “Boom or bust,” said one scout. “Yeah, he’s talented as hell, but his whole makeup is very, very limited. He shows everything you want in flashes, but it’s just so hit or miss. Our area guy hates him, but I bet him someone will take him in the first.” Tied for the longest arms (34 ½) and biggest hands (10 ¾) of any DT. “He’s got talent but he’s a mess as a kid,” said another scout. “He really flashes but has character concerns.” Started 16 of 39 games as a third-year junior, finishing with 102 tackles (18 for loss) and 8 ½ sacks. “He’s 6-6, he’s gonna be 320, he’s got really good feet,” a third scout said. “But he’s got two things going against him: he’s a junior from Mississippi State, and he’s not too smart (Wonderlic of 15). He’s country. He’s a bad (expletive) but he has to be more consistent.” From Houston. Added a fourth scout: “How much dog does he have in him I guess is the old phrase. They’re the same questions about Albert (Haynesworth) when he came out. At some point you figure the maturity will kick in and he’ll say, ‘You know what, this is what I want to do for a living.’ If he can get the right (coach) in his ear he can do whatever he wants to do.”
Can you really expect the Seahawks to spend a first round pick on a “quintessential underachiever”?
This trio have some positives — but the Seahawks haven’t drafted a defensive lineman earlier than the third round. Are they going to break that trend with these guys? Butler might be the most likely candidate.
This is why we brought up Bronson Kaufusi on Saturday. He might not be everyone’s favourite but at least he offers genuinely unique size and athleticism. His 4.25 short shuttle is incredible at 6-6 and 285lbs. So is his 7.03 short shuttle.
He didn’t provide a truly explosive combine (30 inch vertical, 9-3 broad) though — which was somewhat disappointing given his combination of size/quickness.
Here’s what McGinn’s sources have to say:
“Real effort player,” one scout said. “He’s smart (Wonderlic of 32), alert, instinctive. But he’s not an explosive player. He has enough strength. He knew his weaknesses and compensated well. He’s a thinking player and he has length (34 ½ arms).” Finished with 167 tackles (44 for loss) and 26 ½ sacks. Will be a 25-year-old rookie because he served a two-year Mormon mission to New Zealand. “They just think the world of him there,” another scout said. “He’s going to be a big surprise for somebody. He’s just going to get better. He’s got takeoff and speed to the corner.”
That’s quite a positive review.
If this is a case of compromise for the Seahawks with their first pick — Kaufusi might just be ‘more special’ than some of the other options. And that could put him on their radar earlier than anyone expects.
In a similar way, it’s probably what makes Germain Ifedi the odds-on favourite to be picked if they stay at #26. He has unique size (6-6, 324lbs, 36 inch arms) and athleticism (32.5 inch vertical, 9-1 broad). He isn’t Bruce Irvin or Frank Clark or Jimmy Graham — but he’s the type of player they’ve drafted early.
As Tony Pauline reported recently:
Most people I speak with feel Ifedi is a great fit for the team at the end of round one. The recurring comment is “Ifedi is a Seattle Seahawks type of lineman.”
He could easily be their pick, solidifying the left guard spot. He does compare favourably to Kelechi Osemele’s physical profile. Yet with attractive O-line options available in rounds 2-3 (Haeg, Dahl, McGovern), they might be obliged to go defense first.
And while nearly every national mock has the Seahawks taking Ryan Kelly these days — here’s a quick reminder on why that would be a major outlier based on how they’ve drafted since 2012 (click here).
All of this points to one thing — trading down.
There’s really very little difference in terms of talent between the 20th pick and the 45th. That range is going to all be about jockeying for position. Getting ahead of certain teams, moving down because you can.
None of this lends itself to any kind of ‘great deal’. You’re not going to get a 2017 first rounder. It’s more about getting into the position that suites your need.
The Seahawks should be able to find a trade partner.
According to Tony Pauline, the Ravens are keen to draft a top safety:
During combine week I mentioned on Walters Football the word around Indianapolis centered on the Baltimore Ravens dropping back into the bottom half of round one then selecting a safety. I was told last week the team loves Su’a Cravens, hence he could be the target if they trade down.
Instead of moving down from #6, could the Ravens move up ten spots from #36 and get ahead of teams like Arizona?
Such a trade could see both teams swap third rounders for a fair deal.
The Browns might look to move back into the first too. Charlie Campbell claims it’s a possibility:
In speaking to sources, the Browns and Denver Broncos have been speaking to teams to feel out potential deals to trade up from their picks at 31 (Denver) and 32.
Peter King also projects Seattle trading down with Cleveland in his mock draft today.
Either way it seems likely. And an extra fourth rounder (King’s projection) could secure a high enough pick to select Devon Cajuste on day three.
Who are some of the outsider candidates?
Moving back into round two could bring Derrick Henry into range. The Seahawks are a run-first team and Henry is one of the few ‘freaky’ athletes in this class. He’d be a size/style outlier based on what the Seahawks have previously looked for in a running back — but there aren’t many players with his combination of skills.
Henry was also on the list of confirmed VMAC visits. That said, he might be more of an option if he lasts to #56.
EDGE rusher isn’t really that much of a need. After all, the Seahawks drafted Frank Clark a year ago while Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril are signed up long term. Chris Clemons was also re-signed so that’s four solid options for a healthy rotation.
However, Jason La Canfora put out a mock draft today and selected Noah Spence for the Seahawks. In the piece he admitted he was tempted to pair Emmanuel Ogbah at #26 too.
According to Zach Whitman’s Three Sigma rankings, Spence isn’t a freaky overall athlete. However, neither is Joey Bosa according to Whitman’s site — and yet it’s Bosa’s elite agility testing that makes him so interesting as a prospect (he ran an incredible 6.89 three cone and a 4.21 in the short shuttle).
How does Spence compare? He ran a very good short shuttle (4.35) but his three cone was fairly disappointing given his size (7.21). He did, however, manage a 35-inch vertical and a 10-1 in the broad jump. He had 25 reps on the bench (decent) and ran a 1.61 10-yard split (just shy of the 1.5 ‘elite’ bracket).
Yet look at the top NFL pass rushers Von Miller and Khalil Mack and see how Spence compares:
Von Miller
Height: 6-2 5/8
Weight: 246lbs
40-yd: 4.53
Broad: 10-6
Vertical: 37
Khalil Mack
Height: 6-2 5/8
Weight: 251lbs
40-yd: 4.65
Broad: 10-8
Vertical: 40
Noah Spence
Height: 6-2 1/2
Weight: 251lbs
40-yd: 4.80
Broad: 10-1
Vertical: 35
The only similarity is size. Still, we’re talking about two top-five picks and a guy who might be available at #26.
He’s a former 5-star recruit — something Pete Carroll is evidently drawn to. And here’s something else to consider — they tried Cassius Marsh at linebacker and appear to be projecting him as such again this off-season.
Here’s Marsh’s combine compared to Spence’s:
Cassius Marsh
Height: 6-4
Weight: 252lbs
Arm length: 32 3/4 inches
40-yd: 4.89
10-yd: 1.70
Vertical: 32 inches
Broad: 9-0
Bench: 14
Three cone: 7.08
Short shuttle: 4.25
Noah Spence
Height: 6-2
Weight: 251lbs
Arm length: 33 inches
40-yd: 4.80
10-yd: 1.61
Vertical: 35 inches
Broad: 10-1
Bench: 25
Three cone: 7.21
Short shuttle: 4.35
Physically there are similarities — but Spence has a lot more burst (10-yard split), explosion (broad, vertical) and he’s stronger.
On tape you see that too. Marsh wasn’t much of an edge rusher but Spence has shown to be an excellent edge rusher — albeit slightly one-dimensional (he needs to increase his repertoire).
Spence could be a candidate to play SAM/DE. Possibly. And the difference between his character issues and someone like Robert Nkemdiche is Spence actually went to Eastern Kentucky to prove to teams he’s a changed man. Nkemdiche’s issues are very much in the here and now.
The counter to this projection is fairly obvious. Seattle’s two greatest needs are a DE/DT hybrid who can kick inside on third down and the O-line. Taking an EDGE is a bit of a luxury unless, like Louis Riddick, they think he’s special:
“This is the best edge rusher in this draft… no-one has this kid’s hand use, no-one has his feel for pad-level, leverage points in terms of attacking offensive tackles and getting people on the ground.”
I would agree with Riddick — Spence is the best edge rusher in the draft. He isn’t Von Miller, Khalil Mack or Bruce Irvin though in terms of an overall athletic profile. It still shouldn’t be a total shock if they take him at #26 — or if he goes before they’re on the clock.
With a few days to go my hunch right now is they’ll trade down and take the most ‘Seahawky’ prospect on the O-line (Ifedi?) or D-line (names noted above). An EDGE or running back is a wildcard.
Are we looking at this group (in no particular order)?
Germain Ifedi
Jason Spriggs
Shon Coleman (if they see beyond the health issues)
Jonathan Bullard
Vernon Butler
Chris Jones
Bronson Kaufusi
Kevin Dodd
Noah Spence
Derrick Henry
Emmanuel Ogbah
They can draft for the O-line in rounds 2-3 if they go defense first (McGovern, Haeg, Dahl) and it won’t be a shock if they zone in on Tyler Ervin and Devon Cajuste by round four.
If you want to hold out hope on the ideal scenario coming true — Daniel Jeremiah today mocked Sheldon Rankins to the Seahawks.
Another nice post, Rob.
What do you make of Alex McCallister? A superb 4 flat short shuttle, and a 7.01 cone, a very good broad jump, 6’6″, 240 w 36″ arms. He’s not super fast straight line, though.
I saw that the only guys in recent (10 years?) to post nearly as fast shuttle times were Irvin and Frank Clark- yet they were slower.
Have you written on him yet? If so I’ve missed it. Would like to know your thoughts.
I think he has some talent but character issues — a possible UDFA target IMO.
I think the character issues are overblown on McCallister. He claims he was never kicked off the team.
“Why would I be at the Florida pro day if I was kicked off the team”?
McCalister is worth a low round pick, a steal in UDFA.
Not sure exactly what happened with McCallister, but Marcus Peters was kicked off the team at UW and performed at their pro day. It’s happened before.
It seems like that short shuttle, broad jump, and arm length should be of interest to Seattle. Without knowing the details of his conduct issues, I wouldn’t be surprised if they take him earlier than conventional wisdom.
I know you’ve articulated the reasons why you don’t think Billings (not super sparqy, two down player etc) is on the Seahawks radar, all based on objective available data, so no complaints here.
But, I really think Billings could be the guy. He’s younger, really cares, gritty, and has at least one elite trait (strength), and has the short guy Mebane/Donald/Randle/Atkins leverage advantage.
I think this excellent dline coaching staff could really mold him into a 3 down force by further developing his hand use, gap discipline and get off.
There are things to like about Billings — it would just be such a major outlier for the Seahawks to go down that road in R1.
This back and forth is one reason, amongst many, that I love SDB. Rob is very humble and reasonable when he disagrees and so are most of his readers. Like anywhere, occasionally disagreements turn to arguments or emotions raise mildly, but by and large there’s a refreshing dose of humility, or at least civility, that reigns. I attribute this to Rob and many like-minded readers. With all the time and research put into these posts and thoughts of course you and others will stick to their guns. But this remains the top site for really any, but especially Seahawks draft related news/analysis. What would we do without it?
Agreed.
And I hope Rob doesn’t take this the wrong way, but I think that the respectful and largely articulate and measured tone of this community is derived from Rob not really doing “hot takes” or opinion pieces, but instead bases his columns on objective data and trends with cited (important factor imo) rumors and news. The lack of hyperbole (“player X has done absolutely nothing”) in his writing is also attractive.
Great post! The thing that intrigues me the most about Spence is how his hamstring injury affected his combine. His pro day clocked him in the 4.7 range, not awesome but closer to Mack at least. He appears to be a step below Von Miller as an athlete, but that is nothing to fuss about. It would be hard to pass up the best edge rusher in the draft, even with our extremely deep roster.
Agree here. Also have to consider how Spence compares to 2017’s edge rushers. If Spence is one of the top rushers including 2017, then he is worth taking now. If a luxury pick is justified.
It’s worth noting that Spence performed on what was considered a ‘slow track’ at his pro day. A pro day that took place only a week after the combine-not much time to completely heal a hamstring issue. I’d be willing to bet that Spence would crack 4.7 40/1.6 10 in optimal health and conditions. He’d be a luxury pick for sure, but I’d be cool if we took him. He could be special. Has natural pass rushing skills off the edge even if he’s not an elite athlete.
Let’s not forget that the 40 yard dash is almost irrelevant for a defensive end. To me the splits are far more important.
Off topic, but I don’t really like Joey Bosa that much. I don’t see the dominant edge rusher; maybe someone you play at end in a 3-4 and he’s solid/above average.
I think trading down is logical, but I can’t help but feel there will be an impact guy at 26.
Me too, but he does have freaky agility. Those attributes tend to transition over to the NFL very well.
I don’t know. After seeing what has become so far of Clowney, anything could happen.
Considering that next year’s draft class is very strong in terms of EDGE rushers, and considering that Clark and Marsh are solid talents already on the roster, it’s not the best idea to address that position within the first 4 rounds.
I would still go OL or DT in round 1, or trade down if nothing at 26 intrigues me.
What has Marsh ever done to be considered a solid talent? I think he’s become a good special framer and nothing more. I heard the practice reports too but in games, regular and pre season, he’s done nothing.
*teamer, not framer… iPhone…
I have to agree. He gives great effort, but his production is not that good. He has been effective in ST, so I think he makes the roster, and is an OK backup, but I think we can pick up a coupe of DL/Edge guys this year who are more physically gifted.
Kinda liked special framer.
He does seem to have the right frame of mind…
I think they will go so far as to take even an “unfair” deal, based on the value chart, to get more picks. Schneider’s comments about the depth are too telling.
It always seems to me that Schneider gives up too much when he trades picks. He doesn’t seem to care about negotiating for more, but the desire to get his guy will make him give up what the other wants. NE is just the opposite, and always seem to get a good trade. Oh well, can’t argue with the results last year.
this really depends on supply and demand. If only one team wants to trade up for a player you likely loose a trade, but only to the point that you still consider the risk of moving back to equal the reward of extra draft capitol. This is why I don’t understand why teams trade with Bellechick. There doesn’t seem to be a large amount of demand, but somehow his demands are always met. I feel that there are plenty of GM’s that are willing to move down and or up and I just don’t get why he always seems to win. Seems like the demands of his returns would begin to burn bridges as time goes on. I actually like the idea of being willing to “loose” a trade on the value chart in order to build relationships with other GM’s.
I’ve had a feeling for a while that they are going to draft Derrick Henry at 26. Rawls is coming off a big injury. I don’t get the feeling that they trust Christine Michael yet & they let Tukuafu go. For me, the single play last year that got me out of my chair & punching the air was the receiving touchdown for Truckafu. it was an element that had been missing from the ‘Hawks play for a long time. And then I see that Henry made a big deal out of demonstrating his receiving skills on his pro-day. Just got a feeling.
I can’t shake that feeling about Will Fuller. I wouldn’t love the pick (though I like the player) and I think it’s just PTSD from the Paul Richardson selection. I wanted Bitonio sooo badly, and then they pulled that pick out of freaking nowhere.
It certainly does look like it’s setting up for a trade down either way.
First of all, like the username. =)
The Henry pick very well might happen, I just wonder if you can’t find more out of the later-round/UDFA guys that are SPARQ’d up too.
Henry is a special player, with a unique set of skills that belay in many ways his massive size. You won’t find a guy like him anywhere in any recent draft, let alone UDFA. His game is reminiscent of Shaun Alexander, with the added willingness to coil his body and deliver a blow when the time comes. He is so much more than a big guy with long speed, which is a common misconception based on expectation bias. That description is just lazy and flat out inaccurate. He has elite burst and a slick style when he cuts runs back that make you forget he’s 245 lbs. When defenders try and wrap him up or slow him down with arm tackles,his 245 lbs show up, defenders arms just bounce off him. He runs with exceptional lower body power despite his high cut and long legs and he finishes plays exceptionally well. He truly is a unique player that alongside Rawls could give the Hawks the best backfield in the NFL for the next 4-5 years.
Gotta be a figure of speech… Because if you only jumped outta your chair once last season, you should switch to bowling random… Lol.
*fandom
Nah. Random pretty much describes my bowling skills :o)
The weird thing is, I wasn’t a big fan of Henry during the college season. He didn’t strike me as the kind of natural athlete that, for example, Amari Cooper & Marcus Mariota were last year. But you can’t fault him on attitude or production, even if you deduct some points because of the dominant line he was running behind. And he can block a bit as well. Perhaps this year’s conversion project won’t be a lineman but turning Henry into a genuine fullback/3rd down threat.
Given the value of 1st/2nd round picks, what team in their right mind would use that kind of capital to develop a FB/3rd down specialist?
Oh I hope that feeling is just an allergic reaction or something, because I think Henry ends up being a huge flop.
He has a very limited ability to cut or be elusive, meaning that any penetration behind the line of scrimmage means a nearly automatic loss of yardage.
I don’t think he would fit here at all. Maybe in Dallas or another team with a solid line that gives him a head of steam…
Rob: Would it be fair to compare Bronson Kaufusi to Jared Allen. Bronson Kaufusi is actually a much bigger man than Jared Allen.
The more I read all of these profiles to more it makes me think that John Schneider would love to TRADE DOWN and still grab one of these players.
I would be willing to bet that Schneider has a 2nd round grade on all these players Spriggs, Ifedi,, Ryan Kelly, Noan Spence, Nick Martin, Emmanuel Ogbah, Chris Jones, Keanu Neal, Jonathan Bullard.
Knowing Schneider’s philosophy why should I take one of these players in the first round when I have a 2nd round grade on them.
Now Schneider might have a first round grade on Butler/Bullard I don’t know. Schneider is probably targeting somebody in the first round. If he falls to 26 Schneider will grab him. If not Schneider will try to trade out of this pick. As I said before. John Schneider is thinking. Why should I take a player in the first round when I have a 2nd round grade on him?
The reason you take one of these guys in the 1st round is because they all could be gone by the time #56 comes up. The last thing you want is Ariz, Green Bay, Carolina , (playoff competition) later in the 1st round to take these guys, and you are left with nobody.
Screw the value, and take a 2nd round guy at 26 and have the whole list to choose from, not what is left over at #56.
But you wouldn’t be waiting until 56. You’d be trading down, probably into the first 5-10 picks in rd 2 and obtaining more picks in the process.
Yes, I know the Hawks would be trading 5-10 picks down, but still there is too much risk.
Do you want to pick the guy you REALLY want at #26, or what is left over at #32 and Ariz has the guy you REALLY want?
If there is a guy you really want, you take him. If there’s a group of 6-8 that are all relatively equal, you move back knowing you will still get one.
What if there isn’t a guy you really want — just 5-8 that you like?
I’ve only seen a few things about Vaitai Halapoutivaati, OT, TCU. 6’6″ 320, 34.25 arms, noting his high wTEF score in the wTEF article.
With updated pro day numbers (not sure when this happened) of 32 VJ, 9’5″ BJ, 27 BP, he has a TEF of 3.18
Anything particularly wrong with him that the Hawks won’t look at him in rounds 2-4?
Mike Mayock has him listed at #75 on his top 100.
3/31 was pro day, so a while ago.
Ledyard has him as a 7th rounder, but he has Shon Coleman as a 7th rounder (and Decker as his 2nd OT, and Conklin and Ifedi as a 3rd rounder), so scout to scout, grades will vary a lot.
Rob let me clarify Bronson Kaufusi. Do you think that it would be fair to compare Kaufusi to Jared Allen. They both have a relentless attitude on every play. The major difference is that Kaufusi is a bigger man.
Jared Allen:
Height: 6060
Weight: 265
40 Yrd Dash: 4.70
20 Yrd Dash: 2.75
10 Yrd Dash: 1.64 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 13
Vertical Jump: 33
Broad Jump: 10’00”
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.34
3-Cone Drill: 7.11
Bronson Kaufusi
Height: 6064
Weight: 285
40 Yrd Dash: 4.87
20 Yrd Dash: 2.84
10 Yrd Dash: 1.69 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 25
Vertical Jump: 30
Broad Jump: 09’03”
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.25
3-Cone Drill: 7.03
Allen is one of those rare players who greatly outperformed his athletic profile. It’s hard to compare someone like him to a draft prospect.
Idefi, Kafusi, and Butler in that order are my top options at #26.
With J.S. saying that this is the deepest class he has seen in a long time, I definitely wouldn’t be surprised at if they traded down to acquire more later round picks. There are some athletic small school or lesser know players (especially at DT, DE, LB and WR) that they could target in the middle or later rounds that have as much athletic upside without the off the field issues that some potential first rounders do (compare SPARQ ratings of Trent Corney or Tyrone Holmes to Noah Spence). Listening to interviews with those smaller school players they just want a shot at the nfl and seem like they would be willing to do anything to make it. If you listen to some higher round projected players (Spence or Nkemdiche or Chris Jones) they almost seem entitled to me to be on an NFL team. Personally, I would be more comfortable drafting athletic smaller school players who are coachable in the middle or late rounds vs. uncoachable, entitled players, from big school at the top of the draft.
New Orleams is interested in Paxton Lynch. This gives Rankins a chance to slide a bit. If he does, I would advocate trading up for him.
God I hope they do take Lynch. At the least, another good D prospect would drop.
I’d be all for it. I don’t think it’d be a realistic option unless he got to 20 though.
I wanted to check out next year’s cap situation, so I went over to spotrac and wow! There is a staggering number of contracts coming off the books next off season. The intriguing thing is: aside from Baldwin (who will probably be extended sooner than later) and Haush, you could argue that none of the players on that list are going to be resigned.
If the Hawks hit on this draft and next year’s draft, they will have a lot of money next off season to splurge on. Make no mistake, these next two drafts are important but this team is just managed incredibly well. Regardless, there is going to be big roster turnover soon.
Didn’t mean to post this here, ugh!
It was however, a good post. I for one, love being reminded of this every so often, we’re in the golden age of Seahawks football right now.
I’m hoping BPA after trading back into early Rd2. I want a center who will be (or become) the leader of the OL. We need someone who understands line play, communicates well, tough, smart, nasty, durable and strong enough. Someone the line can rally behind. I think that’s the key to coordinated OL effectiveness and 4th quarter success. Someone who will make those around him better, not necessarily an individual standout athlete who is more explosive than the guy in front of him. I hope Sokoli works out, but can he really learn the nuances of the position. Can he QB the line? No confidence here on that, but TC knows all this and PC is still committed at this point to him at C only. Patrick Lewis is only a short term fit due to a lack of someone better.
I’m hoping McGovern can be that guy in Rd 3. Use the first 2 picks for BPAs.
The Seahawks have made draft day trades every year and this year screams, “trade down” based on the depth at D-Line and O-line matching Seattle needs. I would love to finish with 10-12 picks, have at least 6 guys make the 53-man roster and a few more make the practice squad as projects.
It looks like their will be some solid DT options in round 2 and some interesting projects later (Onyemata). We could get 2-3 of the TEF offensive linemen in rounds 2-4 (Ifedi, McGovern, Dahl, Haeg) and a conversion project or two (Fant, Heath) later. I would love to add an extra 4th rounder and come away from the draft with both Ervin and Cajuste as new weapons for Bevell.
Which DB do they choose? How many LBs do they draft? Do they draft a FB or QB?
This will also be a great draft for UDFAs and Seattle has done really well recruiting them. We might very well see some of our favorite late-round sleepers coming to Seattle after the draft.
Okay so this is going off tweets by “the unmentionable one” but he posted something I was curious your thought on.
>After finally getting his full test marks filled in, Halapo Vaitai popped almost full sigma. 80th percentile. Could be steal for RT. Vaitai basically same athlete as Ifedi, but better broad jump;
Vaitai: 6’6″/320, 5.26s, 1.79 split, 4.56 ss, 27 bench, 32″ vert, 9’5″ broad (#17 SPARQ)
Ifedi: 6’6″/324, 5.27s, 1.79 split, 4.75 ss, 24 bench, 32.5″ vert, 9’1″ broad (#22 SPARQ)
>If just drafting athlete to grow, hedging with Webb in 2016; getting Vaitai late allows you to go DT early. I, for one, like Vaitai’s tape. Similar to Conklin to me. I mean, 4th you should DEFINITELY get him. But 5th might still be there.
Have you watched any tape on him or know of him? What are your thoughts? I know in your TEF post you calculated his TEF score to be 2.97. I would love for you to take his full test marks & apply them to TEF and WTEF to see the new TEF grade.
I posted about him up a few comments, but his new TEF is 3.18 and wTEF is 101.7.
tinyurl.com/hr4fkvb Calc here.
His wTEF is 93.8 according to Rob here https://seahawksdraftblog.com/introducing-weighted-tef-what-it-tells-us
But with update pro numbers, I believe it is 101.7 which would put him in at #2 just between Spriggs’ 104.9 and McGovern’s 101.4.
Thanks! Rob responded to my post on twitter: “Not crazy about him. Very different body shape, less length. Late round project. Ifedi could be Osemele.”
My personal opinion is I’d love to go OL with our first pick, likely Ifedi, but at the same time I see us trading down, is Ifedi still there? Do the Hawks want to go DL with our 1st pick? The question then becomes if they grab Vaitai in the 5th who do we not get because we picked him?
And the biggest questions are: what does the FO really think of Webb at RT? And what OT’s will be draftable next year that the scouting department has their eye on? Cause if there are some they really like that will be in ’17 draft then I could see them not going RT at all and going with Webb for ’16 then drafting a RT in ’17.
I mean, if they don’t go OT in the 1st, and go DT, and go for McGovern/Dahl in rounds 2/3, I’d still love to take a 5/6 round change on him. You’re right about our RT confidence, if we had Gilliam, Dahl, McGovern, Glow, wouldn’t RT be our weakest link? At the very least, it’s concerning that it has no competition. I’m no scout, so I thought Hala’s body type looked ok, but I don’t know what to look for except not too fat.
As I said above, Mayock has him #75 overall, Ledyard, round 7, all in the eye of the beholder. If Cable thinks he can do something with him, might as well take a chance.
By the way, who’s the unmentionable one?
Stranger things have been asked…
Funny thing is that he still posts here. It’s pretty obvious who it is when you look at his comments here and what he tweets out.
Stop. Your trying to get a reaction outta me and it won’t happen. You throw out these accusations and start rumors, quit trolling.
Luv ya Vol
Doubt they were referring to you, but if they were they are misplacing their efforts.
Volume12 is a valuable member of this community and we would be sorely missing his input if he were spending his time elsewhere.
I don’t care about these tiffs. Heck, i like steele’s posts hahah
Try not to let your personal feelings muddy our objectivity too much
Here’s some 2 min. highlights I saw on Seahawks website if anyone is interested:
http://www.seahawks.com/video/2016/04/07/2016-draft-profile-ot-halapoulivaati-vaitai-tcu
Thanks that was great! Funny it says athleticism will hurt him in the draft but here we are with new numbers on him and his athleticism (SPARQ, TEF, WTEF) are at the top of the charts.
Well, Rob said a scout told him Bullard was “not impressive” or “ordinary” or something, then the combine came out and he had great numbers. Funny how that is.
No — I quoted an anonymous scout via Bob McGinn from the Journal Sentinel saying Bullard ‘wasn’t special’.
This is the time of the year when you will HEAR all kinds of SMOKE SIGNALS(mis-directions). If an anonymous scout says that Bullard is not special. What does that tell you? It tells me he might be is interested in Jonathan Bullard. Todd McShay has said many times he feels like he is being USED this time of the year.
Sure — and I understand that happens. But I also think there’s some validity to the opinion and not every piece of info is going to be misdirection. McGinn’s stuff has been pretty useful over the years.
Yeah well I have heard my father tell that same thing to me, and what does he know? *starts crying*
Lol. I’M SO PUMPED FOR THIS DRAFT!
It is a luxury to have but it suck waiting till the end of the night to hear who the Hawks pick, and that is IF we don’t trade out of the 1st round.
Oh, I didn’t mean you or the scout was wrong about Bullard, just that when scouting someone, it’s hard to tell how athletic someone is and the Combine can bring about unexpected results.
I’ve been digging this guy too. Was pretty impressed by how well he played DeForrest Buckner and Charles Tapper. This guy shakes my opinion on Ifedi, and makes me think if it comes to draft Ifedi at #26 (meaning, Rankins and Butler off board), I’m very willing to gamble and trade down to 35+. If Ifedi is there, take him, if someone snatches Ifedi, okay, pick Bullard or someone like Kaufusi and draft Vaitai with 97. To acquire more picks in middle rounds.
Beware of Texas AM player’s 12’s. The U has a bone to pick with Seattle. 🙂
If I had to put my ‘prediction hat’ on, I’d say that this Wednesday presser with JS will contain some comment along the lines of, “just saying, the 26th pick is up for sale and we’re taking calls”, and by Thursday evening it’ll be traded
As another commenter pointed out, I wouldn’t be shocked at all if on the ‘trade value’ chart it’s a bit of an unfair deal. For example, if there’s a hypothetical scenario A of a 1st and 3rd, or a 2nd, 4th & 6th, they’re going for the latter option
I’d be shocked if they announced a trade prior to draft. After all, what if Rankins did drop?
The thing with JS “losing” trades, isn’t about just trying to make a deal for the sake of it, or like the Pats and just get what you want and nothing less, it’s about business relationships. If they take a little less and the other team gets a little extra and there’s a history of doing that, it’s good for business. Why? Because it’s not about winning the trade but the relationships established and makes it much easier to make deals because teams will be more willing to work with Schneider. It’s not just a great draft strategy but a great general business one.
And economics. In all markets there is a price-maker and a price-taker. If I you WANT to do something and don’t have a willing trade partner you need to increase your price until the market clears. The Rams and Eagles were clear price takers. With the case of the Hawks, if they are sitting at 26 and someone calls and says I need your pick to get my call, Schneider can set the price and get “paid” to provide liquidity. Doesn’t seem that’s usually what’s happening. He clearly was a price taker to get his guy Lockett and if you have to convince someone to trade up so you can trade down, you probably aren’t going to “win” that trade.
I’m going to number these points so it’s easier to reply to or comment on any of them specifically.
1. I agree with Rob that the most likely scenario is that they trade down. That was the tendency in the first four years of the JS/PC era. But it’s also true that they had to rebuild the roster from the ground up, not only starters but also depth guys.
2. Ever since last year when they moved up for Lockett with just one specific role in mind (KR) that they really wanted to knock out of the park, it makes me wonder if with our current depth we are in a position to make a similar move again this year. That was in R3 for just a situational role that has a chance to impact a few times a game, whereas in R1 we would be talking a guy who has a chance to impact every down on defense.
(I am intentionally leaving out Lockett as WR for now since they specifically said they drafted him for KR.)
3. I’m not sure we need 9 guys from the draft this year. Three or four of them probably won’t even make the 52 come this Fall and/or will get poached from the practice squad. Why not use those to trade instead?
4. And that’s not even contemplating UDFA, which should be equally deep as Schneider has said this draft is. With 200 guys on their board, a lot more than usual should be available in UDFA. Just another possible reason we might afford having less picks this year.
5. We also only have three key players set to become UFA after this season: Luke Wilson, Baldwin, Hauschka. Of course we always want to get better and think long term, but we shouldn’t find ourselves desperate to fill many holes come the 2017 off-season.
6. I think we all have agreed for a while now that Sheldon Rankins would be that ideal guy we have been missing on the interior DL. Might all this (plus the fact that he is a beast) make it worth trading up for him?
7. Say it costs us R1 this year and R1 next year, plus maybe an additional mid-round pick in some of the earlier scenarios below. Our R1 next year promises to be quite late again of course, although I have heard there looks to be some very good RB and EDGE prospects next year, so take that into account too.
8. If all this is a go, who might a willing trade partner be? It seems NO, DET, and BUF might be the ones most interested in Rankins if he makes it past the top 10?
a. Go all out:
BAL at 6- unlikely as it would certainly be too expensive?
CLE at 8- they are in full rebuild mode and look to continue to pile up R1 picks?
b. Get in front of NO at 12:
NYG at 10- or do they need a tackle too badly?
CHI at 11- maybe they can still get a top LB at 26?
c. Get in front of DET at 16:
MIA at 13- looking at RB to replace Miller or CB and can easily wait till 26 for D. Henry?
OAK at 14- are they happy with any of the pass rushers available later on?
d. Get in front of BUF at 19:
DET at 16- as they might be able to move back and still get a WR or DT/DE at 26?
ATL at 17- need to look for several defensive pieces to build on?
Could the solution to the situation Rob mentions about none of the top 40 prospects “screaming” Seahawks be not to trade down, but rather to trade up for one that undoubtedly does? Thanks for hearing me out.
I’m preparing myself to be shocked. I mentioned this below, but I just can’t see PC/JS punting on high picks, for guys who don’t excite them. IMO, none of the realistic options at DL/OL at 26 (barring a slip) seem like guys this FO would love to get their hands on.
Statistically, trading up for a prospect that your are confident in (Rankins) is less likely to result in getting a starter or a pro-bowler than keeping multiple picks (for ex: Butler or Kaufusi in R1 plus McGovern in R2).
Seattle has historically done the statistically smart thing and traded down to get extra picks. However, they moved up last year to get the KR/PR/WR they wanted and they hit a home run. If they move up to get Rankins and he turns into a blue and green Aaron Donald I would be happy.
With regard to point 2, I truly think the Tylock pick will go down as the exception, not the rule, and possibly the only exception in PCJS history when all is said and done
I said this in a previous post, but what was the super bowl champ squad best known for? They had ‘names’ and superstars in Lynch and Sherman and Bennett
But the real storylines had to do with their depth..
-The incredible depth at DL allowing for rotation
-The embarrassment of riches at corner allowing them to have legit CB3 and CB4 options
-A near battalion of good-not-great receivers allowing them one of the most efficient passing attacks in football
Not to mention our superb owlr MVP – a 2nd (3rd?) string LB
All squads have injuries, but the 2013 flavor seemed almost hydra-esque in its ability to replace players
I would argue strongly that 2014 and 2015 squads were hampered largely due to their (lack of) depth. If ever there was a draft for JS to trade down repeatedly for 10+ picks then this is the one
Regarding point three, three or four of our picks probably won’t make the team – the problem is we don’t know which picks those will be. We’ll need all nine of those picks to hit on six players.
Great stuff per usual, Rob. You basically summed up why I wouldn’t be shocked by anything in R1.
Trade (maybe even for future picks)
DB – Neal, Joseph, WJIII, TJ Green
WR – Corey Coleman
RB
I am not rooting for those picks, and neither do I think they will happen. BUT, I just am not sure there’s anybody to get excited about that is realistic at 26 at positions of obvious need. Something tells me that PC/JS aren’t just going to punt a high pick on someone that doesn’t excite them, especially after hearing JS’ interview, where he talks about reaching on OL, due to need. He sounded very…deflated.
Keep up the great work. The community can’t thank you enough for the superb content.
I wanted to check out next year’s cap situation, so I went over to spotrac and wow! There is a staggering number of contracts coming off the books next off season. The intriguing thing is: aside from Baldwin (who will probably be extended sooner than later) and Haush, you could argue that none of the players on that list are going to be resigned.
If the Hawks hit on this draft and next year’s draft, they will have a lot of money next off season to splurge on. Make no mistake, these next two drafts are important but this team is just managed incredibly well. Regardless, there is going to be big roster turnover soon.
? I’m seeing $130million on 27 players for 2017. With a $155m-ish cap that is $25m of room. Add the draft class and injury buffers and that’s now $17-19m of room before Baldwin is signed.
Not exactly a windfall.
If you look at Over the Cap, the 2017 cap is estimated at $166 million (it’s already at $154 million this year). That leaves $35 million, minus the misc., and they have about $28 million to work with. Not a lot, but it’s not too bad. They will probably have to sign Baldwin and Willson also…probably Hauschka too.
Keep in mind that Lynch is still on the books. That’s $10m off the 2017 cap.
I’m thinking they’ll also sign Willson.
Bennett is going to want more$. IMO
IMO shaq lawson should definitely be in that list. I’m really surprised no one talks about him other then maybe one comment a week. He would be my pick for 26
I’m not sure at all that he would be my pick, but I have been looking into him a bit these past couple days because of a little hint I read and I should have something to share on him hopefully tomorrow. Glad you brought him up.
I can understand him not being people’s pick but I love this guy as a prospect. People here would be happy with Bronson at 26 but lawson isn’t even spoken about.
I would actually prefer Dodd over Lawson, but I don’t think it will matter. Lawson is rarely spoken of because he is expected to go in the top-20, personally I’d consider him a lock to do just that.
is it Thursday yet?
The closer we get the more I feel like they are going to do something unexpected in R1.
I’ll say it again, get Dom Williams late. Could there be anything more competitive in this WR room than to add a Coug?
Get your DL in R1, OL in 2 and 3, then BPA at RB, WR, and LB following that.
Haha maybe Kearse could help him work on his hands. No, wait…that won’t work either 😉 Go Cougs!
Rob: Just curious. Who do you have a higher grade. Tyler Ervin or Devon Cajuste.
FWIW, he’s not quite as explosive, but Keenan Reynolds could be a legit fallback option if we miss out on Ervin. But I don’t know if there is anyone who fits the bill like Cajuste.
Ricardo Louis is my fallback for now, but he’s just a different type of receiver and less ready to contribute IMO.
Very similar grade.
Thanks Rob:
Mayock on Mike and Mike this morning gave us some insight that a lot of us knew already – teams will reach on QB’s in the first round for that all important 5th year option. $8 million vs. $20+ million for that pivotal 5th year of evaluation before you hand over the future of the team to him.
This can only benefit Seattle if teams like the Saints take a QB and let a nice defensive prospect drop. I’m really hoping Arizona does the same.
This year’s 5th year option for a QB would stand at 11.3m. Undoubtedly this will go up considerably in between now and 4 years down the line. The calculation is the average of the 3rd through 25th contracts at the position. The salaries for top QBs is flattening out fairly significantly as teams become accustomed to the cap. The mean value of QB contracts in general is beginning to rise relative to the top contracts.
There are 22 contracts above 10m today. 19 which calculate for 5th year options.
8 of those 19 probably aren’t on the books in 2019: Brees, Brady, Kaepernick, Palmer, Rivers, Roetlisberger, Bradford, Romo
To likely be replaced by Luck, Winston, Mariota, Bortles and Bridgewater. With Tyrod Taylor being a possible as well. Winston and Mariota will be getting transition tag rates (average of top 10 QBs) for 2019. Those will boost significantly. Figure there is probably one or two Cousins/Osweiler types who will get Scott Mitchell money on the UFA circuit.
The price for a 5th year option on a non top 10 pick QB in the first round looks like it’ll be in the 15+ million range. Wilson’s contract will likely figure in that as Luck will push him out of the top 3.
As messed up as the old system was for top 5 overall rookie QB salaries — the cap has bloated the journeyman contracts significantly. The Smiths/Daltons/Bortles of the world can get 16-18m without much of a fight.
Wow, good to know. I think the 5th year will still end up being preferable to say franchise tagging your QB though.
Rb: I know you would like Seattle to grab both Tyler Ervin/Devon Cajuste. However, I am guessing you have a higher grade on Tyler Ervin.
What a crazy draft this is going to be. So many interesting players in rounds 3-5, wouldn’t be surprised if we traded down twice. Also wouldn’t be surprised if we just grabbed one of the players on your list, though I’d be tempted to cross off Chris Jones.
This site is AWESOME!!!
I have no idea what’s gonna happen. My best guess is trade down.
I really think they will.
Rankins at 26 would be the dream, but I wonder if we go DL at 26 if enough talent would be out there to shore up RT?
In many recent mock drafts, including community mock drafts which mock the war-room process with fans of that team acting as GM, La’Raven Clark and Shon Coleman do not make it to our next pick. I think we could be happy shoring up the LG and C positions with our picks in the 2nd and 3rd, but I do really worry about RT if we can’t address it at 26 with a blue chip player like Ifedi.
Ifedi is far from a blue chip player. None of these OL are blue chip players though, which is why none are really worth the 26th pick. The best OL in the draft might be McGovern, I think he matches the Hawks the best and shows the most consistent footwork on reach blocks and cut blocks. Ifedi, Coleman, Spriggs, especially Clark are all projects that are unlikely to unseat Webb or Britt in 2016. The college game is failing to produce true blue chip OL prospects. I think McGovern, Westerman, Haeg, and Dahl are all just as likely to succeed as Ifedi, Coleman, Spriggs or Clark – which is why we shouldn’t hyperfocus on OL in round 1. It’s a deep, fairly even class at the position.
When do you publish your final mock Rob? Thursday?
Wednesday — in time for the Huddle report.
Rob, curious if you have a personal big board separate from the rankings you do through a Seahawks lens?
IE) guys like Billings, A’shawn, the early WRs and sub 32″ Cbs.
I don’t really, just collect names of the guys I like for SEA.
When is Schneider going to add you to the FO?! Seriously you should be in their war room this weekend! No other place has this level of detail and knows what to look for and how to find it! Keep up the great work, but seriously you should get paid for this, and we’d all be happy to pay for access.
Thanks for the kind words Drew.
Love me some Billings:)
Hey Rob,
I keep getting hung up on Kenny Clark at 56, he has struggles in the Run game but man does he dominate passing, and if you haven’t had a chance he has a helluva back story. The one thing I could see holding him back are his combine numbers. 48 Percentile SPARQ
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2016/story/_/id/15290048/ucla-bruins-kenny-clark-forges-path-nfl-draft-father-serves-prison-sentence-second-degree-murder
Thoughts?
Not an explosive athlete and that is a concern. Classic one-tech and would replace Mebane. But I think he’d be more of a R3 type for SEA.
I think, turns out like Peter King, the Hawks swap with Cleveland. Give them #26 and get back #32 and #100 in the 4th round. With that in mind here’s my mock
32 – T – Spriggs, Indiana
56 – DE – Kafusi, BYU
90 – G – McGovern, Missour
97 – RB – Ervin, San Jose St.
100 – WR – Cajuste, Stanford
124 – G – Tunney, North Carolina St.
171 – G/C – Seumalo, Oregon St.
215 – Edge – Weatherly, Vanderbilt
225 – OLB – Holmes, Montana
247 – CB – Elliott, Colorado St.
Go Hawks!
Looks good up to and including Cajuste. After that, not crazy about it.
Seumalo would be a steal at 171. Walters Football has Seumalo going in the 4th round.
Walters Football has Weatherly going in the 5th round.
Don’t know if Schneider would be interested in Seumalo. However, I think Weatherly is on John Schneider board if he was still around in the 5th round.
He is a dark horse pick for Seattle to me. Depth at center. He is more than capable. Worst case scenario, he would be a back-up guard.
Love Spence but bigger needs elsewhere. His get off is elite much like Miller/Mack
I’d personally cross the following off to the list til R2:
Spriggs (weak on inside rush, Too much like Gilliam), Ogbah (stiff/straight line only), Henry (not a need R1), Jones (needs more passion, grit, output for the 1st), Bullard (Delawrence Jackson II?), Ifedi ( controversial but too read/react, not enough of a run blocker for my taste)
Nevertheless I like where I think this blog is heading:
Believe there are others in R1 albeit not at need positions who are better ballers, have better measurables, and could be far better impact players at 26 – a la Neal, Ragland, WJIII…
However if no one falls to 26, defo think a trade back is in order given the wealth of so many good players that will be there at 26
If a trade back happens, it must then be DT then OL or vice versa picking one of Butler, Kaufusi, Bullard, Dodd, Jones along with one of Ifedi, Coleman, McGovern, Kelly.
Any combo would be great
I don’t really like the idea of trading down into the second round. The only thing it guarantees is that you won’t get to choose any of the players that are picked between your old spot and the new spot. I get it that you don’t like the value at #26. But consider this:
1. What makes you think that other teams see value at that spot? If they don’t then what happens if 6-10 teams all want to trade down? If the other teams do see value, why can’t the Seahawks?
2. Whatever players you have in mind to pick in the second round, there is a good chance that another 3-6 of them are taken before the Seahawks get even one pick.
3. The Seahawks haven’t had a first round pick in three years – and it shows. Defense not good enough – well wouldn’t it be nice to have used the last three first round picks that were traded away. Offense – same argument.
4. Fan wise I’m sick and tired of watching every other team make a first round pick, but when it is the Seahawks turn they can’t pull the trigger. Boring!!!
5. Lastly, the Seahawks don’t need a lot of players – they need a few great players. Where will they come from if not the first round? Odds just get worse later on.
Defense not good enough? C’mon Alaska.
If you have eight guys graded the same and you’re willing to take any at #26 — and you guarantee one at say #36 — and it allows you to get a guy you really like and want at the top of round four, it makes a ton of sense.
It’s a seven round draft not a one round draft. We have to remember that.
Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you guys.
Based on the latest drafting thoughts – It is expected that the Seahawks will go defense first. That pick isn’t a slight against the current defense. Also the comment that having the last three years worth of #1 picks would be an improvement is not meant to be critical of the team we got.
As far as grading, it is more likely that they have 2 defensive and 2 offensive players that they would draft at #26 if forced to draft there. And lets say that they have another 6-8 players at #40 if they move down. If they are committed to making their first pick defense, then those 2 players will probably be gone. So now you move to the second tier. I would guess that at #40 you might still have 1 of the original 4 you liked. Or maybe not. Maybe you are just stuck with the players who were graded less.
Question for Alaska Hawk. Lets say the Seahawks are on the clock in the first round. The only players left on the board have a 2nd round grade. Should John Schneider take a player with a second round grade in the first round?
If you really want to maximize first round picks then the team should trade into next year. They could probably get an extra 2 or 3rd round pick this year and an extra first round pick next year. Since everyone is committed to trading down anyway, why not pick up the extra 2nd round player and the first round next year?
If you don’t think that trade is worth an extra 2nd round, then the Seahawks could sweeten the deal with a few late round draft picks this year.
This draft is insanely deep. 6 day 1-2 prospects still with this team 16 day 3-udfa prospects still here.
200 players on your board you have nine picks. I’m not sacrificing any of those picks and would hope to add more this year than grab another low first we will probably trade down from in a class of ?’s next year.
This ain’t madden you can get red chip guys later on if you believe in them, yourself, and the coaching staff.
Figers crossed Rankins falls to 26 and Seahawks don’t get a boring draft. lol
John Schneider will need more than fingers crossed for Rankins to fall to 26. It will be interesting to see if Vern Butler is still on the board at 26.
If Butler is at 26, I think they might take him there.
🙂
Statistically Alaska the Seahawks are more likely to get a few great players by trading back. The more picks, the better the odds. The odds of a single 2nd round pick are less than a 1st round pick but the odds of a 2nd round pick and a 4th round pick are higher than a 1st.
We have found all-pro starters in the 2nd round, third round, and fifth round.
Plus, I think there is a real argument that Seattle needs more than a few players. Depth on both the offensive and defensive lines is getting a bit thin.
With all of the talk of how deep JS says this draft is, I would expect a trade back. Stinks for the all of us Hawks fans on Thursday, but it would make a more exciting weekend. You’re right Steve, our depth has been getting thin, and I love it when we have an extremely competitive camp. It brings a new vibe to the team. We need another crop of young talent to bring some life to our team. The better the young talent, the better the competition.
Statistically speaking the later the player is picked the less chance they will make it past 5 years in the NFL. From that viewpoint it is important to maximize the first and second round picks.
though it does seem like the 5th round is the Seahawks sweet spot for defensive secondary.
Defense not good enough?!?
Wow. That’s a statement that actually made me double take when I read it.
The Bullard ‘isn’t special’ quote seems really odd to me. He’s in the 87th percentile by spark, and his 10 yard/VJ/BJ go 1.65/32/9.67 at 285 lbs. Aaron Freaking Donald was 1.63/32/9.66 at the same weight with shorter arms (I see a lot of reference to AD at 159 10s but looking into it that seems to be the unofficial combine time that was fixed to 1.63 later).
Now, Bullard is no Aaron Donald – Donald utterly blows him away in long speed and agility/short area quickness….but he does that to EVERYONE. But in terms of Seahawky physical traits if ‘more explosive than 90%+ of comparable players’ doesn’t tick the box I’m not sure what does.
I have no idea if they’ll pick him. But saying he’s physically unimpressive just seems to be flat wrong – even in the short shuttle and three cone he’s well above the average mark for players his size. He’s not a generational talent, but they call them generational for a REASON.
What is interesting about Jason La Canfora’s mock draft is the fact that he nailed Frank Clark going to Seattle in the 2nd round last year.
SPARQ is not a test of explosion though. It’s like an overall athletic profile.
The scouts might not be talking about his physical profile. They might be talking about what they see on tape.
SPARQ isn’t, but the 10s/BJ/VJ are, and he comps very closely to Aaron Donald in those metrics. You could try to argue those markers aren’t all that impressive…but I’m not really sure how. In the SPARQ database this year, his 10y split is better than all but three DL prospects out of 125 (2.4%) and tied with a few more.
Notably, it seems odd to say Kaufusi is ‘incredible’ as a physical prospect because of his rare agility numbers but not say the same for Bullard on the explosion side. I get that what you’re saying is that neither has the entire package (Donald, the standard “…what a freak” comp, is incredible in both areas). But if Kaufusi is notable or ‘special’ in one area, so is Bullard.
That’s because Kaufusi’s short shuttle is incredible at 285lbs. It’s similar to J.J. Watt’s. Heck it’s similar to Darron Lee and he’s 53lbs lighter.
When I put Bullard’s explosive drill results through TEF he came out middle of the road for this draft class. Below Willie Henry and Hassan Ridgeway. The thing that he did better than those two was forty/ten but he’s 18lbs lighter than those two. In terms of pure explosion he wasn’t that special relative to the rest of this class.
Willie Henry is literally a zero z score by SPARQ and a full tenth of a second slowed in 10s. than Bullard. That’s practically a victory lap at that scale…which TEF doesn’t even incorporate.
Sure, but that’s just the split time. And I’ll say again, Henry is 18lbs heavier than Bullard. It’s the same difference between a more natural 265lbs EDGE and Bullard and we wouldn’t make that comparison.
If you want to focus on z score and SPARQ that’s fine — but in the trenches agility and explosion is the important aspect. Bullard tested bang in the middle of the DL class for explosion and his agility testing is similar to Henry. He just has a better split.
I like breaking down the Seahawks draft into three categories:
I. Immediate starters and impact players (rds. 1 – 2)
II. Rotation players who can be groomed to start (rds. 3 – 4)
III. Players with difference-making athleticism who are raw, boom or bust type of players (rds. 5 – 7)
The Seahawks seemed to have followed this pattern in the past, and many of their category III players have panned out. It also helps me feel a sense of closure on the picks of P-Rich and Britt because that is who they expected them to be. This year I see a trade back to acquire more picks, because this is such a deep draft. Players like Butler, Bullard, Kaufusi, Ifedi, Coleman and McGovern should be immediate impact players. I can see the following happening:
Trade the 26(700 pts), 90(140 pts) picks to DAL for 34(560 pts), 67(255 pts), 189(15.8 pts)
2nd Round
34. Bronson Kaufusi – DE/DT BYU
56. Shon Coleman – OT Auburn
3rd Round
67. Connor McGovern – OG/C – Mizzou (I’m afraid he won’t be there at 90, a swap of 3’s with DAL ensures they get their man)
97. Tyler Ervin – RB – San Jose St,
4th Round
124. Devon Cajuste – WR – Stanford
5th Round
171. Travis Feeney – OLB – UW
6th Round
189. David Onyemata – DT – Manitoba
215. George Fant – TE/OT – Western Kentucky
7th Round
225. D.J. Hunter – S – Marshall
247. Terenn Houk – WR/TE – BYU
We would bring in a couple of QBs and RBs as UDFA… But I would love to see something like this work out. One can only dream.
But why would Dallas make that trade? In trying to find a potential trade partner, I would look for a team that needs a QB, and wants to trade back into the end of the first round in order to have the 5th year option on that QB. So, maybe teams that are looking to draft Connor Cook, or maybe Hackenberg.
If Dallas is smart, they would take Ramsey with the 4th pick. That leaves them with a need for a RB. Enter Derrick Henry.There are teams in the late first and at the top of the 2nd who could pull the trigger on Henry. Jerry Jones does like Henry so… you never know.
I highly doubt Dallas would do that. Stephen Jones is the one calling the shots (not Jerry), and he’s been very prudent with their drafting. And like I mentioned, really the only time you ever see a team trading back into the end of round 1 is when they’re trying to land a QB.
Hypothetically speaking, if Paxton Lynch falls to the 26th pick who do you think could pair as a trade partner with us? I can only think of Cleveland wanting to trade in front of the likes of ARI/DEN who could take him. Can you think of another team who we could trade back with and possibly swap 3’s with? I just don’t want to risk waiting for McGovern at the end of the 3rd.
Heck if Lynch is gone at 8 to SF or 12 to NO, I could see them trading up at the end of R1 to get Cook. I personally wouldn’t do it, but (a) 2 teams have already done crazy things in this draft, (b) Dallas drafts like a maniac already, (c) seems like several scouts/insiders think Cook could go in the first. The Henry scenario is also plausible.
Sign me up for that trade and mock.
That’s true, we’ve seen how desperate teams are for a decent QB. Look at the contract Osweiler got, and as you mentioned, those trades. DAL could draft a QB that Romo could mentor. I’m not a fan of either Cook or Hackenberg. Maybe they do something crazy and make a move for Cardale Jones. We could also see a team move up from the middle of the 2nd and give up a ton to do it. It should be fun to watch.
Well, firstly: there is simply no way Lynch will fall that far. The better bet is a team targeting Connor Cook, Hackenberg, or Prescott.
Secondly, as far as a possible team looking at those QBs? Maybe a team drafting early-to-mid in round 1, and has a need for a QB. So maybe a Chicago or New Orleans? I’m not sure there’s really a willing trade partner this year, because I think the talent in the 1st round this year is about average compared to other drafts, but the depth in later rounds is better than average.
So teams might want to hang onto their rounds 2-7 picks. Just a guess. You never know, maybe Dallas would in fact be a trade partner as you suggested, you really never know.
I just can’t wait to see how everything unfolds!
I don’t know about “no way”. Most would’ve said 2 weeks ago there is no way the Rams or Eagles give up as much as they did for “suspect” Tannehill type QBs. Would’ve said no way the Panthers let Josh Norman go for nothing. Would’ve said no way that Aaron Rodgers fell as far as he did when he almost went #1. Lot of crazy things happen in drafts. I heard Clayton say that he thinks Paxton Lynch needs three years on the bench before he plays (I disagree), but if other teams feel so, its possible. Heck, after pick 8 or so, not many teams would even think about taking a QB in the 1st round, so it’s possible.
I mentioned Chicago and New Orleans, but Cleveland also might want to trade back into rd 1 (after using their 8th overall on another player). Maybe Cleveland could then target Cook at 26.
Actually Cleveland is the best bet because they have the ammo to move up, back into rd 1 at 26.
Both of those teams are good candidates to move up, but I don’t think they are close to competing for playoff spots yet. DAL is really a QB away from the playoffs IMO. That division is not good. I just feel like CHI or NO would be giving up too much, but I could be wrong. And you are probably right that a move up would be for a QB, barring a big fall of a top prospect. I’m saying it could be Lynch because if the Jets don’t take him at 20… He might fall all the way to ARI or DEN. He is a good enough prospect to warrant a big move from another team.
Buffalo could be a team that moves up in the second after taking a non QB in the first.
Very possible.
Vikes traded back up to get Teddy B. they made the playoffs with him.
It has it’s merits
Ive going back and forth for a month. If 1.Ifedi/2.Spriggs is there @ 26 take him and go DT in Rd 2. I feel there are a lot more DL prospects than Tackle prospects. We have a glaring whole at RT going into next year if Gilliam is truly going to be our LT. Its the safest scenario in my opinion to address the trenches on both sides with our first two picks. Rankins slipping to 26 is the only scenario Id switch my draft preference.
Here is a scenario with adding competition as the focus
D. Henry HB
McGovern RG/C
Ronald Blair III DT
Joe Haeg RT
Devon Cajuste WR
Alex McCallister DE
Deiondre’ Hall CB/S
Tyrone Holmes OLB
Halapoulivaati Vaitai T/G
Henry competes at RB
McGovern competes on the line
RBIII instills competition inside. Could be that Clint McDonald production.
Haeg is a nasty fighter inline would be great to have that bruiser back at RT
McCallister reminds me so much of the Irvin and Clark picks. He doesn’t have the same level of ferocity as those guys but the athleticism is there.
Hall has great closing burst and is extremely raw back deep, but is an insane athlete and would only get better around all these competitors.
Holmes adds special teams depth and upside at 3 spots Leo, Sam, and Will
Vaitai probably goes earlier than this, but he’s a swing tackle providing depth at a couple spots having started at LT, RT then going back to LT
This is also feasible in a trade down I’d think. Then I’d like Justin Simmons slotted in there, thinking the rest would still be available as i overdrafted slightly
Rd 1. Shon Colemon
Rd 2. Connor McGovern
Rd 3. Joe Dhal
Rd 3/4. Freeny, Ervin, Cajuste
Rd 5. A defensive tackle of John Schneider’s choice.
Rd 6. Vernon Adams.
Rd 7. We shall see!
Coleman at 26 is super risky
Tru Dat, but he seems to me as the perfect right tackle foe our run first offense and Rob adores him which is well good enough for me.
McGovern could be our left guard or center and Dhal is reassurance of the spirit of competition.
Ervin is cool as a third down back, Feeny a playmaker on defense and Devon Cajeste another Standord stud who could possibly be a tight end/ big WR. I do think we need a penitrating DT though, so shall we see.
I just don’t see three OL in a row, however much I like all of these prospects. I think they need to address the DL early given the amount of depth there is at the top of this draft.
I know that makes alot of sense but our management seems to fool us from time to time. I do trust Rob’s opinions greatly and he has different ideas of how things will go which I respect imensly! Any way were getting better no matter what!
This is a constant struggle when I try to mock picks to Seattle. I end up weighing the OL guys a bit more favorably than other positions. I know they think differently, so I try to be mindful of what Seattle might do, not what “I” would do if I were the grand pooh-ba or GM.
Three rookie OL? Wilson is a dead man.
Doubtful Dahl starts for us next year at any position
Just an idle thought; Wasn’t it just a couple a years ago that all the draft sites and experts said “you never draft a linebacker in the 1st round. Yet there might be as many as 4 or 5 drafted in the 1st this year.
I love the idea of the rich getting richer, but honestly the offensive line is by far the glaring weakness of this team, especially pass pro. Not only are good DLs disrupting our offense, but we are going to get Russ hurt if he keeps getting hit the way he did last year. We would easily see the most improvement by this team if the Seahawks could add some true talent to the OL.
1. Spriggs (experienced LTs with this SPARQ/TEF rarely fall to #26, so count your blessings and don’t overthink it; we need pass protection in the worst way)
2. McGovern (another SPARQ/TEF elite athlete to solidify the OG/C position)
3. Kaufusi or Fackrell could fall to here, if not a DT such as Ridgeway or Hargrave
3. Charles Tapper or Joshua Perry, Edge or LB
4. Ervin, RB
Good article Rob.
Like you I feel that the wide open nature of this draft will put Seattle in a position where they will finding trading down to have even more appeal than usual.
As far as the #26 pick, I’ve been saying for a while now that (for better or worse) I think Vernon Butler is Seattle’s guy, as he’s the only ‘pass rusher’ in the draft to check just about every box on PCJS’s quirky checklist. But as you say, Butler may not reach #26 given his ever-rising draft stock and popularity with scouts.
I heard from someone (Tony Pauline?) that they’d checked five NFL draft boards and all five had Bullard in the 2nd round. I think he fits Seattle decently well but he is probably more likely after a trade down than without one.
I like Ifedi, but I get the growing sense that most evaluators are sour on him and the fact that he gets lumped as a “Seahawks” type of lineman almost feels like a backhanded compliment. It would not shock me at all if Ifedi were still on the board at #56. It also would not shock me if Seattle drafted him at #26.
Chris Jones is the most over-rated player in the draft for me. Honestly I wasn’t even aware of his off-field issues, I just thought his tape was terrible. Ever since Percy Harvin, Seattle has avoided guys with attitude issues like the plague, so I’m not expecting Jones or Nkemdiche to be on their board. Which is good because I think both of them are draft landmines.
Noah Spence felt Seahawky until his combine.
Kaufusi is a decent player and will probably be an adequate pro. I don’t think his type really fits Seattle’s template, and as a player I’d probably grade him a hair behind Ronald Blair, and Blair will be a mid-round pick.
Like you, I feel mystified by the options this year as so few of them scream Seahawks at #26. Vernon Butler is a Seahawky pick. But if he’s gone, I have no idea what they will do. I think they want to go pass rusher in round 1 pretty badly, but if Butler isn’t there the remaining options might underwhelm them so much that they could end up going with OT Jason Spriggs based on BPA.
Cody Whitehair is a player to watch closely in round 2. Some evaluators consider him a center, and if that’s true, he’d be the only center in the draft with the 9′ Broad Jump that Tom Cable requires. Germain Ifedi and La’Raven Clark are also worth keeping an eye out for.
Last thought- both Joe Dahl and Tyler Ervin are rising up draft boards and rumors have them going on day 2 now. It wouldn’t surprise me if one or both of them went to Seattle in round 3.
Actually, the center from UCLA has a 9′ broad jump, but the guy weighs like 286 pounds and looks like a boy amongst men, so I just automatically discounted him in my mind when typing that.
On Whitehair — there are two major issues with him I think will count against him:
— His vertical and bench was appalling. So while he managed the 9-broad qualifier, it’ll be interesting to see if the Hawks even consider him given his overall profile (TEF) is pretty awful.
— He would be the first O-liner drafted by PCJS with sub-33 inch arms.
Agree that the Hawks like special athletes. But they have also spent some high draft capital on players that had character flaws or took time to get their act together professionally. Golden Tate looked like a bust his first year…Christian Michael….Percy. They aren’t afraid of taking head cases and figuring out how to get them to perform (Marshawn) and flushing those who don’t (Lendale White). All of the guys previous mentioned had a unique skillset to be a game-changing talent. Dealing with these guys seems like it is right in Pete’s wheelhouse. Of the guys Rob focused on here, who is that rare talent? Chis Jones
Make that Chris Jones.
I’m not sure Chris Jones is that rare. Nice frame but not rare IMO. And the way he’s described by the scout quoted in this piece… bleh.
Rob I’ve yet to find an entire report o Nkendiche you’ve mentioned a history of violence before and i haven’t been able to find much on him or his brother could you give the specifics or perhaps point me in the direction of those news articles
profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/26/robert-nkemdiche-really-complicated-laremy-tunsils-next-few-months/
http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/10/13/6970231/robert-nkemdiche-bong-photo-hugh-freeze-ole-miss
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2014/03/05/ole-miss-rebels-linebacker-denzel-nkemdiche-suspended/6081487/
It appears that the victim (Nkemdiche) broke the window and then walked approximately 15 feet and climbed over a wall and fell approximately 15 feet,”
http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2013/12/30/5257942/robert-denzel-nkemdiche-cody-prewitt-ole-miss-bowl-suspension
http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/ole-misss-denzel-and-robert-nkemdiche-sued-for-2-million-allegedly-knocked-out-stomped-man-at-party-021814
http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/3/5/5474508/nkemdiche-brothers-robert-denzel-ole-miss-news-updates
Guys. Think about this. Everyone on this forum knows who Bronson Kaufusi is. But 99% of Seahawk fans have never heard of Bronson Kaufusi. Remember last year when John Schneider took Frank Clark. No one had even heard of Frank Clark. No even some people at 710 Kiro. There was a HUGE uproar. I know Clark had a checkered past. But now no one is even talking about Clark’s situation back in Michigan.
Not true M8, Rob Staton predicted Frank Clark to us in the 2nd round and was spot on. He also predicted Bruce Irvin in the 1st of the 2012 draft and Robert Turbin. Robbie Staton is a genius and a guru.
I think he meant people outside of this forum
Okay then that makes sense.
I don’t recall “Rob Staton predicted Frank Clark to us in the 2nd round” at all.
I do recall Rob’s take on Clark – a 2nd round player that the Seahawks will not touch due to JS’s clear statments regarding DV issues.
So yes, his talent was recognized here but he was not “predicted to us in the 2nd round”.
I had him in the 3rd, and IIRC so did Rob.
Who cares if you don’t get the exact round right? Try to predict the guys you think they’ll take.
I don’t recall him saying he was ‘can’t touch.’
And if he did or says Seattle won’t take a guy this year, but they end up doing, then he did his job, correct? We know who the guy is and what he’s about.
I did not say they wouldn’t take him Eran. Show me in these articles where I said that:
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/frank-clark-and-his-likely-second-chance-in-the-nfl
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/wp-admin/customize.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fseahawksdraftblog.com%2Ffrank-clarks-tape-vs-northwestern-very-impressive
I wrote two key articles on Clark acknowledging his serious character concerns and then broke down his tape — noting what a good player he was. I actually said he could provide the best chance at adding an impact player. Please get your facts right.
If Hawks want Kaufusi they will have to take him with their first pick. Kaufusi will be LONG when the Hawks are on the board at 56.
Most project him to go between 35-70. Not sure that’s long gone.
Also, they could also just trade down.
He (Ifedi) could easily be their pick, solidifying the left guard spot. He does compare favorably to Kelechi Osemele’s physical profile.
If this is 75% the truth, sign me up…. put the name on the card.. and get the draft going NOW!
Rob, do you grade picks like the pros….. letters, numbers colors, flags ?
Do you then load the guys up on a spreadsheet and keep tally as the draft commences?
No — I don’t have the time for that unfortunately!
I just like to have a range for a prospect. Usually it covers two rounds if you’re picking late in a round (R2-3).
Ok. I was just wondering. I know you are an army of one person and NFL teams employs dozens of people for this exact purpose, to uncover draft gems.
Per Walter Football
26. Vernon Butler, DT
56. Alex MCcalister, DE/OLB Florida
90. Connor McGovern, G
97. C.J. Prosise, RB, Notre Dame
124. Joe Haeg, OT, North Dakota
171. Deandre Elliot, CB Colorado St.
215. Devon Cajuste, WR/TE, Stanford
Side Notes
Ifedi went 42 to the Dolphins
Kyler Fackrell, LB, Utah State went 51 to the Falcons
Emmanuel Ogbah, DE, Oklahoma State went 55 to the Bengals
Robert Nkemdiche, DE/DT, Ole Miss went 54 to the Vikes
Bronson Kaufusi, DE/DT, BYU went 81 to Falcons
Tyler Ervin, RB, San Jose State went 101 to the Cowgirls
Shon Coleman, OT, Auburn went 106 to the Bears.
Joe Dahl, G/OT, Washington State went 134 to the Ravens.
Overall this scenario for the Hawks would be superb. I think I’d switch out a few picks, for example Alex MCcalister, DE/OLB Florida at 56. Reason being theres a bunch of people who are still on the board Id rather have. We are still developing Frank Clark at the same position. Seems like overkill to draft a DE/OLB this high. Also pick 97 C.J. Prosise, RB, Notre Dame. I don’t know to much about the kid but with us just missing out on Kaufusi at 81 and Ervin, Coleman and Dahl still on the board I feel we can get more value somewhere else. If the draft fell this way I would be ecstatic!!! Imagine if somehow Fackrell fell to us at 56, wow!!
Wow that RB from Notre Dame is a good all around back. Great pass catching skills. Might be a steal in the 4th round.
Alex McCalister at 56 would definitely fit the profile of a “Surprise” Seahawks pick. Out of all the player listed above, IMO, I think Butler is the one they would take at 26, and not trade back.
Looks really similar to the one I posted earlier. Odd ranges though.
Guys I am starting to warm up for both Ryan Kelly AND Bronson Kaufusi. Maybe Schneider can move down and take Kelly. Trade up and take Kaufusi.
They’re both a little too shiny for me if you know what i mean. A coach’s son and an unathletic Bama starter? I’m not sure that’s the Hawk’s thing, but they will likely be fine red chip guys, both.
Give me Charles Tapper, he’s got a strut in his step and earned those combine numbers.
Gotta disagree about him being a coache’s son.
Seattle has drafted or signed multiple guys who’s dad, brother, uncle, grandpa, whatever played in the league.
NFL teams love bloodlines.
Hm not a ton come immediately to mind.
Paul Richardson’s dad played ball for the raiders.
I couldn’t care less about a bloodline.
I’m a draft zombie. I’m after their brains
Paul Richardson, Cassius Marsh, Tyler Lockett, Michael Bennett, Cameron Marshall, KPL’s cousin, Germain Ifedi has bloodlines.
I know I’m forgetting a few too.
Brandon Browner has multiple members of his family, and IIRC his dad or uncle, Joey Browner, was coached by PC in Minnesota.
I think this kind of word of mouth connection has far more sway there. I.e. baldwin on cajuste.
Ifedi’s brother plays for memphis. I’d hardly call that a mark in his favor. Locker-room connections form some of the strongest bonds.
Ifedi’s brother last played for St. Louis in the NFL.
Word of mouth? So QB Jacoby Brissett because he played at RW camp, WR Jordan Payton because him and Cash Marsh are best friends, WR Jaydon Mickens someone PC has a connection to, LB/DB Su’a Cravens because PC will have all his info, UCLA’s Caleb Benenoch because TC knows his UCLA guys.
I think you may have misinterpreted my point.
Just because a guy is a coache’s son doesn’t mean Seattle won’t like him.
Are bloodlines everything? No. Absolutely not. But, IDK what to say if you don’t think NFL teams don’t like guys like that.
I doubt that earns him higher marks than someone who came from nothing. Never knew no nfl’ers. Sendin’ his momma his first paycheck.
But yeah i get it. Coach’s son. Know’s the game. Used to the routine. Has someone in his corner. That’s intangibles for sure. Russell has that coach’s son demeanor.
I think Martin Ifedi’s on the Buccs now.
Don’t forget that dude named Russell Wilson.
Kelly to AZ at #29…… very real possibility. They need a true center in the worst way and he is one of the best ones to come into the NFL in a few years. Connecting the dots….
Just read something a few days ago as a 4 year starter he never allowed a sack or had a penalty, that’s crazy if true. Forget where i read it so not sure of how true it might be.
I watched Bill Polina give a star to Vernon Butler. Folks that’s good enough for me. Have my doubts if Butler is still on the board at 26. But if he is I can’t turn in my card fast enough. Butler is listed at 325 pounds But when you look at the guy you would NEVER guess his weight. The guy must be all muscle because in pads he looks like he weighs 290. Whoever gets Butler is going to get a KEEPER.
Yeah, I also have my doubts he makes it to 26, but if he does, I think he might be the one of the lot listed above that keeps them from trading out of 26 and they just take him there. Admittedly, I’m totally biased about him.
Bill Polian
Hahaha
Butler could be trimmer, for me. Looks the part of a 1 tech
Yeah, I think he could do both 1 tech and 3 tech, maybe a bit of 5 tech. Personally, I like the idea of shifting him around a bit, if they can.
I am adding Baylor basketball TE convert Rico Gathers to my 7th round list. He is a project but his athleticism makes him a possible all-pro. He could be a hedge for 2017 in case Jimmy Graham’s recovery is not successful and/or they need to clear salary cap space.
To have a shot at him mid 6th is my take. Raw, needs a bunch of work…. but you might get Jimmy Graham in 2-3 years….. Saints 6th round pick.
I tried to look him up on twitter last week. Only hit I got was a porn website reviewer twitter account. Hopefully not the same guy.
If the Seahawks don’t draft spriggs and he becomes some teams left tackle and is the athletic freak his tests say he is, he can turn it not a badass starter in the league on the Left side for a minute. Our presumed starting right guard Glowinski has a higher Sparq score then spriggs. Wow, can’t wait til The Kraken(Sokoli) and Mad Dog(Glowinski) are beating the crap out of Aaron Donald and Kawan Short! Haha, looks good on paper for sure
Into a badass starter*
I fully agree with Rob. I think it’s probably pretty likely Seattle trades back on Day 1. Just something I’ve been feeling ever since JS went on the radio a couple weeks ago talking about the great depth in the draft and having 200 players with draft-able grades.
I do think Rankins and Butler are players that would keep Seattle at 26, if either was there. It’s interesting that Rob Rang this week is mocking Vernon Butler to Seattle when for months now he has consistently mocked OL to 26. I think Rang is close enough to the team that he could be sensing something in the air, and I remember him saying on KJR a few months ago that he feels a run at DT could happen in the bottom end of R1 right around where Seattle is picking and he wouldn’t be surprised if Seattle was among the teams active. He could have just been sitting on this one for a while.
As for the other DL Seattle has been linked to, I like Bullard a lot, and think that he probably has an intense bulldog mentality that the scouts who are calling him “not great” or “nothing special” are going to end up setting a major fire under his backside, and the team that is drafting him will be getting a guy with a major chip on his shoulder, and that’s going to be a very good thing for that said team. I think he probably has that kinda makeup. But I can see Seattle trading back some and still getting him.
Chris Jones I wish I could get more excited about. If he decides he wants to be a full time baller, I think he could be pretty special.
Dodd, one year wonder aside, is legitimately interesting, and I think there’s a chance he could be someone they like at 26, but could also see them trading back with a chance to get later.
It’s speculation that Seattle would be into Kaufusi, but I think it’s pretty spot on speculation from Rob. I think he would be a great candidate to trade back a bit and pick up. I think a lot of fans will hate the pick initially, but IMO, I think he could surprise at the next level and be a lot better than some are suggesting.
26: R1P26
DT VERNON BUTLER
LOUISIANA TECH.
56: R2P25
G CONNOR MCGOVERN
MISSOURI
90: R3P27
OLB JOSHUA PERRY
OHIO ST.
97: R3P34
OT JOE HAEG
N. DAKOTA ST.
124: R4P26
RB TYLER ERVIN
SAN JOSE ST.
171: R5P32
WR DEVON CAJUSTE
STANFORD
215: R6P40
DE MATT JUDON
GRAND VALLEY STATE
225: R7P4
FB DAN VITALE
NORTHWESTERN
247: R7P26
DT/OL JOE HEATH
MICHIGAN ST.
I’ve pretty consistently been mocking McGovern at 56, and think that’s still likely. Ervin is another one I have been picking around 90, but I kind of think Seattle might go LB in the 3rd. I think adding Butler and Perry to the D would pretty much ring the bell that the Bully is back in the PNW, if Browner and Clemons coming back wasn’t enough. I think that’s why I want Perry here. Some think he’s an MLB, I tend to think he would be a great SAM in Seattle, and a junk yard dog of one at that. If they don’t go OL at 90, I think they do at 97. Haeg and McGovern would both bring great competition to the line, probably both factoring in as starters sooner rather than later.
If Ervin is still available at 124, I think they take him. A lot of projections of Cajuste is as a middle round pick rounds 4 to 6, so 171 is where I have him. He does bring an excellent case to why Seattle probably wants to trade back to gather more picks, though.
R6, they go passer rusher if Judon is still there. I think they could draft a FB this year, and personally, kind of into Vitale and his ability to factor in the passing game. Heath is drafted to convert to the OL, if he’s not there, maybe the kid from Ferris State is.
have all you guys done the draft simulator on fanspeak? Pretty fun
I prefer draft simulators to mock drafts because it does switch things up every time and you are faced with different choices and constraints each time
Walters Football also mocked Vernon Butler going to Seattle. Would I love to see Butler on the board at 26? Yes. Very much so.
I see Buffalo as the prime competitor for Butler. Sexy Rexy could also be the one to throw down on Nkemdiche, though. It will be interesting.
Trade down all the way, but as ever JS will be ultra prepared and will obviously have a handful of guys on the board that can realistically be there at 26, and that he’s willing to pull the trigger on.
I love the 2-3 round tier of talent in this draft and want to see us get as many of them as possible.
I’m counting on Seattle trading back multiple times with our first pick at this point. It wouldn’t be a surprise if our first selection is in the back half of the second round. There are many, many names of guys thrown out there and seemingly about 20 of them I would feel fine with as our first pick but I don’t see any single one of them as an absolute “must have” except for Rankins(gone) and Coleman(health).
This is a year where I would love to pull of a trade similar to New England when they trader their 1st rounder for a 2nd, 3rd and 4th.
Totally agree.
Why couldn’t you trade back with Cleveland, Tennesse, whoever and still get Ifedi?
Sayin
He wants to go in the first frame sooo bad.
I’m hoping he don’t and he grows an Ifedi sized chip on his shoulder
I would rather grab “the guy”, than perhaps miss out on him by being too cute.
Another 4th round draft pick is not worth missing out on “your guy” in the draft.
Thankfully, Seattle has not been too cute and missed out on many guys they had the option of picking. Several guys went a bit quicker than anticipated, but that happens. But they have not missed any generational or colossal mistakes that I recall, when it comes to not drafting guys. Even if they have, they grabbed RW in the 3rd and that erases any perceived mistakes for the foreseeable future.
I totally get what your saying, but it depends.
What if a guy in the early 4th you’ve identified as a must get or ‘your guy.’
Rob, say Seattle does stay at 26 and goes Ifedi, who are the DL options at the end of round 2?
Chris Jones becomes appealing at 56 if he lasts that long and he might. ‘Needs the right coach in his ear.’
That blurb on DT Hassan Ridgeway made me think twice. At least scouts aren’t labeling Butler, Bullard, Kaufusi, and Jones as ‘soft.’
They’ve never needed a DT before. So it should be interesting to see how they approach that.
Blair III, after his pro day 40, could be an intresting option later.
Willie Henry DT is and option at pick 97.
What was the blurb on Ridgeway? I was considering him for the Hawks. He was labeled as soft?
Yeah, I’m taking those words from the scouts with a huge grain of salt. In terms of Ridgeway, the first scout said he’s a riser, and people will catch onto him, the last one was so damning, I wouldn’t be surprised if that scout actually really wanted his team to draft him, and was feeding McGinn some hooey. IMO, these younger cats, Jones, Robinson, Ridgeway, Henry etc.. all have top level talent, but are YOUNG and need maturing upstairs more than anything else. It’s what is going to make Bulter, Bullard, Rankins, and Reed as much more appealing.
Drafting at 26 is always a problem. It is a “first round pick” at the point where most/all “1st round talents” are already gone. The temptation to trade back is always there. It only makes sense to pick at 26 if the draft class is top heavy at your specific position of need and one of those top talents is still there.
If the Seahawks see Ifedi/Butler/Bullard/Kaufusi as one of those top draft talents they will pull the trigger at 26.
The current Seahawks roster has 6 starters/key contributors drafted before day 3 – Earl, Wags, Clark, Britt, RW, Lockett. The other 16 starters are day 3 and beyond, including the likes of Kam, Bennett, K.J., Sherman, Baldwin, Rawels etc.
Statistically, hitting on one of a 2nd plus 3rd/4th, looks better than picking a single player at 26. It is even more likely on a draft class that JS claims to be the deepest he has seen in all his years with us. The temptation to trade back must be burning his fingers.
With cap pressure building internally and with just 27 players on contracts for 2017, stocking the roster with decent rookies out of this deep draft class sounds like a need for this team.
IMO, only Butler may be seen as a must have if available at 26. Others may feel Ifedi is that guy. The Seahawks will most likely feel that neither justifies giving up on that extra 3rd/4th pick. The only counter argument has to do with next year’s draft. Both Sowell and Siliga cost us a valuable comp pick next year. Finding possible replacements for those guys that will allow the Seahawks to release one or both by the end of T.C. has extra draft value beyond immediate roster upgrade.
It is not a call we can predict. It has too much to do with evaluation beyond the TEF/SparQ/Limited tape view. This is a call done with the input from a multi-million scouting operation and the position coaches. Is that guy at 26 worth that much more then the guy a little later plus the extra guy later on?
It feels like the answer is NO but that is outside our scope of knowledge.
Would love to hear everyone’s Day #3 prospects and what you think their potential is. We know the Hawks have built the core of this roster on Day #3 and UDFA which makes it fun as a fan of the draft.
My three favorites for Day #3
1) David Oneymata (DT Manitoba ) I know everyone is probably sick of me talking about this guy but he is the one guy I hope we get on Day #3. He is an African kid who came to Canada 4 years ago for College and had never even seen a football until then. In 3 years he has learned the game of football and dominated Canadian College football this past year. He got an invite to the Shrine game and despite the huge jump in competition he dominated practice all week and was the defensive player of the game.
He is 6-4 305lbs 34.5 inch arms and incredible movement skills. His testing #s were off the charts a TEF of 3.62 and one the highest SPRAQ of any DL in this draft. My favorite player in the draft is Rankins and Oneymata was longer, bigger and tested better in almost every drill. If the Hawks are looking for explosive athletes then Oneymata should be their guy.
I know this may sound crazy to most but given his athletic profile, movement skills and obvious coach ability I really think in 3 years’ time he will end up being one of the 5 best DL taken in this entire draft. Had he played at one of the big US schools he would have been high draft pick for sure.
#2 Jatavius Brown (LB Akron) Brown is an undersized outside linebacker who lacks the height, weight and speed measurements that most teams are looking for in their next starting linebacker. What Brown lacks in measurables, he more than makes up for in production and the consistent ability to be a playmaker on defense. Given the success of guys like Buchannan in Ariz and Shaq Thompson in Carolina in a hybrid role Brown is a more viable option than ever.
Even though Brown earned MAC Defensive Player of the Year honors, Brown was not invited to the NFL Combine. He started all 12 games in 2015 and led the team in tackles (89), TFL (20) and sacks (12). He is an absolute beast when he steps on the football field and is capable of defending the entire field.
Brown’s speed and quickness jump off the tape when watching him play. He can knife through traffic and lay a thundering hit on a ball carrier. He broke the school record for tackles for loss (41.5) and sacks (18), both previously held by former NFL All-Pro, Jason Taylor.
At his pro day as he ran a 4.44 40-yard dash, including a 1.53 10-yard split. Brown also jumped well (35.5-inch vertical leap and 10-foot-5 broad jump) and posted an impressive number on the bench press (33 reps). There is nothing he can do about his lack of height, length and growth potential, but like two undersized stars currently on the Hawk Russ and Earl he plays with a huge chip on his shoulder and continues to prove people wrong. Sounds like a Seahawk to me. His play on the field suggests that he should be a second round selection. In all likelihood his size and playing in the MAC, he could drop all the way to the fifth or sixth round. I think the Hawks should take him in the 4th.
#3 Tyrone Holmes- Small-school prospect Tyrone Holmes is currently limited as a player (basically a speed rusher) and didn’t face the highest level of competition during his time at Montana. This is largely why he remains a likely late-round selection. When you watch Holmes on film, however, you get the feeling he could develop into something special at the pro level. At 6’4″ and 250 pounds, he looks the part of a future NFL edge-rusher, and his game tape shows plenty of potential.
Holmes racked up a whopping 18 sacks this past season and was named FCS Defensive Player of the Year. Though he will need to refine his technique, he has the speed to win off the edge at the pro level. He backed up the tape with his pro day workout in front of the 18 NFL teams, recording a 4.62 40-yard dash, 1.62 10-yard split, 37.5-inch vertical leap and 4.28 short shuttle. On top of his physical attributes, it seems that Holmes possesses the type of work ethic that can allow him to thrive in the right system. It will likely take some time for Holmes to develop into a full-time contributor in the NFL, but he has the physical tools to immediately help a pass defense as a situational edge-rusher.
If we went with Brown in Rd #4, Oneymata in Rd #5 and Holmes in Rd #6 our defense would have 3 developmental prospects with a ton of upside and the potential to be starters at some point in their career.
I’m sold on all 3
My focus has been on the day 1-2 prospects for the most part, but a few players I like are Max Tuerk, Justin Zimmer, Jayron Kearse, Justin Simmons, Keyarris Garrett and Alex McCalister. Tuerk especially, as he’s very athletic and may have been considered the top C in the draft over Kelly if he was healthy.
I also like Thuney and Seumalo on the offensive line, but they likely don’t meet the Hawks’ athletic requirements.
I like Tuerk a lot too. He reminds me of Alex Mack and Unger in his size and movement skills.
Tuerk may not last until day 3. You guys see Onyemata as a DL, or as an OL convert?
Definitely a DL, as he’s had success there in Canada and during the Shrine Week.
Tuerk may not last, but he could be a great coup for the teams that gets him.
I agree 12er. With his movement skills and burst definitely a guy to keep at DL. I still think it is amazing how easy he steeped up to the huge increase in competition at the Shrine.
cool, I’d love to get Zimmer as well, as a convert
Zimmer’s another guy who would stick at DT. He posted crazy numbers in college, albeit for an unknown program. The converts are for special athletes who weren’t great as defensive players in college.
Trevor,
I am with you on Onyemata as a Day 3 developmental project at DT. Here are three others that are more round 7/UDFA
Rico Gathers – Baylor basketball player converting to TE. He is 6-7″ with gigantic hands and showed impressive athleticism in a special pro-day workout. He will need a developmental year but his ceiling is Pro-Bowl.
LaQuan McGowan – TE from Baylor showed impressive athleticism for a guy 6-6, 405. I imagine him filling the jumbo blocking TE role and I am curious to see what his ceiling could be with some pro coaching.
George Fant – he has been mentioned on these boards as the next possible TE to OT convert project. I like what they did with Gilliam and would love to see them duplicate that success with Fant.
Gathers is definitely an interesting guy. I would love to see that guy running down the seam and going up to get the ball. Try matching up with him if you are a 6-1 Safety.
Don’t know much about Fant or Mcgowan but will definitely check them out.
I wouldn’t mind Noah Spence and it’s who I projected for the Seahawks on nfl.Com predict the pick. I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if Seattle trades back into the second round,maybe within the top 10. In this scenario they get a second and maybe an additional 3rd or 4th rounder. I think that the first 4 picks would be 2 OL, at DT and olb/DE hybrid.
I would love if they took any of these players : Noah Spence Derrick Henry.. Shon Coleman, Sheldon Rankins, Jonathan Bullard and possibly Ifedi,Haeg,Whitehall or Max turek.
It would be nice if some of our OL from last year developed but in any case. The Seahawks are sure to throw us off with a selection or two.
Noah Spence would be a waisted pick. We just drafted Frank Clark
Seattle had 4 edge rushers in 2013 and it was only a good thing. Bennett, Clark, Avril, Spence would give you a really deep rotation. Plus Spence gives you future options, Avril and Bennett are aging and have big contracts.
vrt: Exactly; Avril/Bennett are not going to be around forever.
Spence and Clark are different kinds of players.
A luxury pick, yes. Adding another skilled edge adds an x-factor to a lineup that is already solid—if Clemons still has it, if Clark develops.
When does it become time to think about the heirs apparent to Bennett and Avril?
Next draft season when we dont have glaring holes ar RT, OLB, and DT. For now Avril Bennett and Clark are a solid rotation. We can add another this draft just not rd 1.
Darius Latham and Matt Ioannidis are the forgotten men in the defensive tackle class.
Pro football focus on Latham:
The defensive line class has moved a number of quality players down the board, and Latham is quietly one of the best interior rushers in the group. He can use his hands or win with a spin move, getting inside blockers once every 21 rushes to create pressure, third-best in the class. He also has the size and frame to play in multiple schemes, so Latham deserves a look in the middle rounds as a player who can initially be a pass-rush specialist, with the hope that he eventually becomes an every-down option.
If you want a solid defensive tackle in the third or fourth, here is your guy.
6-5 300 lbs, 4 sacks in 2015.
Latham tested very poorly.
Yep Latham and Washington both surprised me with poor combine performances. Was expecting at average-above average test scores from both. Their tape shows some explosiveness. Washington has a nice pass rushing repertoire with an impressive spin move, if he falls to late round 3 he could be an option. Think there will be a few very useful rotation DT sitting there for us at #90.
The question remains how much weight should be placed on the tests, versus everything else.
He’s going to go on into the NFL,” McElwain said on Dec. 21, noting that injury kept McCalister out of the team’s 2015 SEC Championship Game. “He was injured. At times, I really don’t quite get it, but that’s [the media’s] choice to say what you want [that he was dismissed]. He’s not going to play [in the Citurs Bowl]. But if you choose to throw something out there, that is hearsay or whatever, that’s your choice. I’d never do that to a guy. I’m here to support these guys in every way, shape or form.
Sorry premature post, but that’s UF’s coach calling out the media for tarnishing his player’s draft stock.
In everything McCalister has done. He has protected his team first and given glory to his teammates.
Cowboy’s FA DT Nick Hayden working out for Seattle
Nothing special but he would be another decent two down DT to add to the roster. Would probably be had for veteran minimum too.
Hayden is a solid fall back option if the draft doesn’t yield a DT or 2. This is a case of JS doing his research in case rhings dont go according to plan. With the draft being so deep at DT it would be a surprise if we don’t get at least 1 DT.
I really am starting to warm up to the idea of a trade down. It is beneficial in a number of ways:
1. It creates a lot more competition than we had on the roster last year by adding more players. I believe Rob and others made this point, but a lot of players on the roster last year were playing out of necessity and not because they won any sort of position competition.
2. There seems to be a large pool of players forming that could be options for Seattle, and without any standout choices, selecting a larger amount of them looks better than targeting specific ones.
3. It gives you a cushion of picks if you need to go and get one of your guys in the middle rounds of the draft because you have more ammo (Tyler Lockett).
Also shout out to Seamode for the thoughtful and insightful response on my last post. I’m definitely going to try to make an effort to contribute a lot more around here. This truly is the best site because of Rob and the rest of the posters.
Pleasure to have you.
Great points abt the trade down. I think it is increasingly likely
Any time. Glad you went back.
Butler is at 26 they take him. If not its Germain Ifedi at 26 if they can’t trade back. If they get a trade they take and still get Ifedi. The last 2 are what I expect because I just not a big fan so this is why it happens. I’d be willing to trade back and grab Coleman. Boom or Bust in the top of the 2nd.
Tell me if I am wrong about this > the single factor that would most improve the Seattle Seahawks is better pass protection by the OL.
If incorrect, what would the area be? If correct, then is it too much to ask that we find a couple of elite pass protection OLs in this draft? It does not seem too much to ask that John and Pete find elite QB, RB, CBs, LBs, DLs, WRs, in the draft or as UDFAs. And of course, they have done so. So why can we not pull out all the stops to land a couple of elite pass pro OLs?
I understand that the college game has made it exceedingly difficult to identify and draft a quality OL, but somehow the teams that landed Tyron Smith, Zach Martin, Andrew Whitworth, David DeCastro and Ryan Kalil managed to do it. And don’t give me DL conversions as the answer. It is worth a shot, but we are still waiting on the first DL conversion who becomes an elite pass pro DL. Sweezy was only a marginal success, in my view, good at the run game, unacceptable in pass pro.
John and Pete have done the miraculous at every other position, and we have the draft capital this year, so what the heck? Let’s do it… Spriggs R1, McGovern R2.
Tom Cable has never coached an elite pass protecting OL before, so you will most likely be waiting a long time for this. It’s always going to be run blocking first with this team.
Agree vrtk, it’s in the formula. A solid & tough running game that supports the defense, WRs that can block & make the most of limited targets, and a point guard QB to run the whole show. It’s just the way the Hawks have chosen to craft their team.
Well that’s what he gets with Ifedi. Put him at LG you would have no worries with him in pass protection. Its how long will it take him to learn the run blocking because he just doesn’t have the experience. This is what Tom wants to start with so be it. He’s done the job with other team backups its time to give him the talent and a start on cementing a consistent lineup.
Love the points you make regarding Cable’s prospects, but I have to disagree on Ifedi’s inexperience.
He was recruited as a guard in HS and played RG for Manziel’s aggies. Some feel he looked better there than outside.
I like him as a RT, though. His kickstep is mind boggling at his playing weight of 335.
Sorry should say initial burst is mind boggling. His kick step technique leaves a lot to be desired.
vrtkolman, my concern is that Cable’s assumed approach is self-limiting. The pro bowl lineup reveals any number of OL who can both run and pass block, and it certainly appears to me that Spriggs and McGovern should do both well. The problem has been looking only for run-game OL (Carpenter and Moffitt too big and slow for pass pro, Sweezy just too inexperienced to handle rush moves). We can invest our top two picks in the OL and should be able to find two guys who can do both well. Cable has already changed in that he has gone from maulers to ultra-athletic sparq gods (Gilliam, Glow, Sokoli) so if John and Pete give him the draft capital, I believe he can use it wisely.
I think this is one of the most solid responses to Cable’s approach. I think you’re putting yourself at a disadvantage converting these guys like that.
These DL work for years honing their technique and Cable almost says eh, if they can get in the way fast enough, that’s an adequate blocker right there.
I completely agree with the athletic OL approach, though. It just makes sense.
Bigger, faster, stronger, yeah?
I also appreciate the concept that they have to start from scratch with OL coming out now.
Ifedi comes from an air raid offense under Mike Leach protege Kevin Sumlin.
He’s got the same technique grade as any DL convert in their book, i’d assume (obviously not without some hesitation)
Idk if they go OL early and often, but yeah they usually draft for difference making athleticism at positions of greatest need early.
Spriggs I think goes earlier than most are projecting. Or lots of OL slide due to teams grabbing defenders and playmakers early.
“Tell me if I am wrong about this- the single factor that would most improve the Seattle Seahawks is better pass protection by the OL.”
I personally do think you are wrong about that. I agree it would certainly be what would most improve the offense, but I think what would most improve the defense would be of even bigger impact to the team’s success: a penetrating DT.
Increased QB pressures (forcing him off his spot/out of the pocket) would increase sacks for our DE’s and opportunities to strip the ball, increase errant throws leading to interceptions, and increase the number of 3-and-outs by giving their QB less time to throw on 3rd down. It would, simply put, get us the ball back more, which is what our team is all about.
That said, I do see a strong counter argument for pass-blocking OL being more important: if RW were to get hurt, there could be no possible bigger impact on the team.
Instead of trying to choose, I just look at the biggest possible improvement on each side of the ball and try to think of how we can best go about addressing both in the draft this year.
I think we should consider as well that pass protection is not the only way to stop opponents’ pass rush. You can also run the ball well and make them respect that, which will not allow them to let loose their pass rushers as much.
Given our identity as a run-first team that controls the clock and takes big shots set up off of play action, I would prioritize getting elite run blocking OL over elite pass protecting OL.
When you drool over the Cowboys OL, you also have to consider whether you prefer having our defense or theirs. Saving money and draft capital on OL is what has allowed us to draft and pay so many elite defensive players.
Wow, that got long… Anyway, I’m all for drafting McGovern, and even Spriggs as well if the price is right. That would be a crazy athletic OL for our zone blocking scheme.
Slow clap ?
The only thing we’re missing is who they have with the red tabs next to their name.
Maybe our DT is in rounds 3-6! Maybe they wait till day 3 to target OL at all.
Thought about that. Go all out on OL early and make do with Hill and a rookie as situational pass rushers on the inside. Doesn’t make you drool like Rankins but it would probably work and would be cost effective.
I also must say that, as we talk up the prospects more and more over the months leading up to the draft, I fear we fall into thinking they will contribute right away, especially the high-round picks. That’s all well and good to have high hopes for one’s team, but the fact is when you look back at the rookies from last year, very few really did squat for their teams. And they aren’t always the high-round guys that everyone talks about in draft season.
(We could get Ifedi, Spriggs, and McGovern and our line could realistically still suck just as bad as last year. Just ask the teams that took Eric Fisher and Luke Joeckel seeing “perennial pro bowlers” and “10-year plug and play starters”, “bookend tackles”, etc. etc. on their OL…)
It is just really hard to shake off that bias. Glad my Seahawks have!
I think that’s another thing fueling the trade down scenario.
Very little room for a first round ego on this team. Especially our first 1st rounder in 3? Years.
Guys get chippy when they don’t hear their name called. For me, I’d be happy with one starter on the OL from this draft. We are reloading, not rebuilding. Grab some high potential redshirt guys. That’s where our best players have come from.
Sidenote: do you think Earl/Sherm/Kam become who they are today without Lawyer Milloy and Marcus Trufant?
Great points. A penetrating, pass rushing DT could make more of an impact than any single offensive lineman would for Seattle.
That penetrating pass rushing DT is very difficult to find in this draft. As we have been discussing at length.
I still don’t see any obvious candidates.
I actually think there’s a few who could come in and compete right away, especially Chris Jones. Also Hargrave and Ridgeway offer a great combo of athleticism and pass-rushing production in college which indicate they could compete for nickel DT snaps in year 1.
A lot of the smaller nickel-only DTs offer some nice pass rush upside as well (Nkemdiche, Bullard, Kaufusi, Blair).
There isn’t an Aaron Donald who’s going to be a 10-sack guy as a rookie, but it’s highly doubtful they are able to get a similarly talented all-pro type offensive lineman in year 1 either.
Funny that Chris Jones gets hyped up so much because of the weak interior rush class.
Interior rush is a huge strength of this draft class. You don’t have super twitchy DT’s like Aaron Donald or Fletcher Cox, but there are a number of early round DT’s who were strong pass rushers in college and are great overall athletes.
Buckner, Rankins, Jones, Hargrave, Ridgeway, Nkemdiche, Kaufusi, Blair. Even guys like Butler, Bullard, Henry, Collins have potential as interior penetrators.
I think since the Hawks got one of the best oline coaches in the league they have switched to more of a money ball approach at oline. They do not take oline prospects early since Cable arrived becaus they go for later round oline prospect that meet their TEF cut points to turn them into nasty run blockers. They can skimp on paying the oline because they ask them to run block well and do their best in pass protection not become a Probowl caliber pass blocker. As long as the Hawks stay as a top 5 run unit I think this plan will stay in effect. Carroll does the same with Db’s he knows what he wants physically and takes balls of clay in the later rounds and makes them into ballers. The hoodie does this with Db’s as well as RBS to keep the team costs down at certain positions so he can spend money elsewhere. Money ball: taking guys that can do certain things well and put them in a situation where they can flourish. The only thing about this approach is teams are starting to draft freak ass studs on the dline to combat this approach and have been giving our average oline problems. Hence Sokoli and Glowinski. Athletic freaks that are cheap that will be able to hang with the beast DT’s once they have been coached up
I love this site, and I’ve been following it for the last couple of months. I’m with the folks who believe the Seahawks will trade down with pick 26, unless there is an extraordinary prospect still on the table. Looking at all the mocks today, for me, that one prospect is consistently Derrick Henry. There’s no way the Seahawks can have complete confidence that Rawls will return this season at 100%; and we all saw last season what happened when the Seahawks didn’t have a great running back in the game – it wasn’t Lynch, ever – the defense stayed on the field too long and were worn out by the end of each game. We lost. Ervin would be a great complement to Rawls, but he would Make a poor substitute. And if Rawls does return at 100%, I think Schneider/Carrol would be highly intrigued by the punishing 1 2 punch of Rawls and Henry together.
A.J. Hawk is getting cut by the Bengals…Rob, would he fit in Seattle?
Can’t speak for Rob, but he has puke-ish athleticism. He’s very slow and he’s pretty washed up to boot. Yuck.
Hahaha
Ok…forget him then…even Brock said nah
Scouting the SDB community;
Sea Mode: active, fast hands, but he’s all thumbs. great awareness, keeps his head on a swivel. Can play kind of soft, but has an active motor and huge upside.
vrtkolman: your typical hard nosed, ground and pound poster. Great size and length, plays a little short winded at times, endurance a concern. Strong hands and will ALWAYS hold up at the point of attack
Rob Staton: franchise guy. Everything you want in a field general. Not afraid to take deep shots. Calm under pressure, cool as a cucumber, has ice in his veins. Otherworldly pocket presence and goes through his progressions.
Steele: some red flags for penalties, but no personal issues off the field. Tenacious run stuffer, clogs holes and fills gaps well. Emotional poster. Trusts his instincts and that can sometimes lead him to trouble in traffic.
Kenny Sloth: at 5’5 165, the size is a concern. High injury risk with minimal upside. Good eyes, v attractive. Everyone loves him. Really good at stuff. Funny, too. Just a sparkling charismatic guy in interviews. Gets caught out of position a lot. Bites on plenty of fakes.
Volume12: character concerns. One anonymous scout tells me ‘doesn’t play nice with others’. Cutthroat on the field. Experienced leader and tone setter. Not a guy that will back down from a challenge. Active hands and great pursuit never gives up on a post.
Kip Earlywine: faster than his numbers suggest. Had a down year in 2015 but solid production. Great vision and playbook smarts, one of the few guys to completely cover Russell Wilson flawlessly in college.
C-HawkTalkerEric: has missed some time due to injuries. Not a headliner, but has explosive posts with great rac ability. Puts team in position to succeed and can dominate the guy across from him.
nichansen01: burst onto the scene really came out of nowhere to help his team to another consecutive winning season.
Trevor: classic space eater, great at the point of attack and has strong, valid posts with great length. Well thought out pass rush with a plan.
cha: a strong offseason has put cha squarely in contention. Great teammate and solid rotational guy. Ceiling is high with great character. Looks to put up increased numbers with an increased role.
Sorry if I didn’t include you, guys. I’m sitting in my car writing this (stationary).
You’re all awesome, posters (Madmark, others). And for those who just read and scroll through comments, hope you get a kick out of this. You guys are awesome too.
Thx for bein so great all year, Rob, SDB, and everyone.
Here’s to drafting 9 pro bowlers and signing 2 more in udfa
Only 2 in UDFA? And only Pro Bowlers and not All Pros? What, are we getting lazy around here…? What happened to always compete!?
Just kidding. Brilliant post, Kenny. FWIW, I think I might actually meet the Hawks criteria for CB… 6’2″, 200, 33.46″ arm. I would definitely be one of those guys that “has frame to add more muscle”. Would probably need to work on that 40 time though… Nothing a redshirt year couldn’t fix, right? 😉
Hahaha wow got an athlete over hear ya’ll. Lol you’re playing OLB for SDB though.
Low key I was gonna make a highlight reel of my 1 yr kitten playing with her toy football and tab her as a day three prospect. Doubt that 5 lb. frame would hold up to the abuse of a full 16 game slate.
She has insane OBJ catches sometimes, straight up no lie.
The lil claws help doe
LOL!!!
Don’t forget Jarhead!
You, too, Abdou! Jarhead’s a real tough guy. Kind of a throwback to a different era. He’ll stand a guy up, climb him, and put him on his ass haha
Jarhead is just a NASTY run-blocker LOL!
Total liability in pass pro, though!
LOL if we’re talking liabilities.
Rob just heaves the rock into traffic. No ball security 😉
But Rob’s AWARENESS is just legendary! Stunts and twists are no problem, he always knows where the blitz is coming from. Can’t fool him LOL!
True dat, im curious where he even picked up the knowledge! Being from the UK and all not the easiest transition.
It also gives the site a nice air of refinement most of these california seahawks blogs sorely lack.
Man going through there are tons of guys I could’ve mentioned by name!
S/O to AlaskaHawk, HawkfaninMT, sdcoug, eran-ungar, CharlieTheUnicorn, RWIII, ukhawk. I’m sure there are even more, two days guys
Two days! I can’t decide if it’s actually sad that Draft weekend is like a holiday to me….thanksgiving, Festivus, Draft…
I’ll take the size and length compliment!
Good, i mean only the best.
I don’t think any of you guys are slow or fat or can’t catch btw.
I’d draft you all.
That was dope my man!
Very cool thing to post.
That is classic Kenny love it!
Haha this is great Kenny!
You are the best.
LOVED IT.
Rob – Needs aside. If SEA was truly going BPA at 26 – what prospects would get you most excited?
Again, I emphasize simply your favorite prospect that is realistic (to some degree) at 26. So the likes of Ramsey, Bosa, Tunsil are off limits, obviously.
Sounds like basically Sheldon Rankins. I think he’s extremely high on Darron Lee as well
Keanu Neal, Corey Coleman, Will Fuller probably.
What do you think of Doctson, Rob?
Hard not to love those 3 guys so dynamic and explosive.
Corey Coleman is definitely the guy I was thinking of. He’d be fun in this offense.
Keanu Neal.
BPA would be Derrick Henry. Measurables off the charts, performance off the charts (Heisman and all-time rusher in nationwide high school). Downgraded because of RB position, but he is certainly the BPA.
Baylor’s Spencer Drango as a possible Seahawk? Wouldn’t hate it.
Draft clues from PC coming soon ya’ll.
You know when? I mean, we’ll certainly take a look, but I remember someone last year taking a movie at random and a player at random and finding a connection…
All good fun though!
I don’t. Just saw him mention it on twitter. 2014 he tweeted out the entire draft before hand.
They’re always comedy/comedian or related to music.
What do you mean about last year?
Yeah, sorry. Just half lazy on my part not to open another tab and half restless to get the draft going!
I just remember someone basically showing that trying to figure out the clues was pretty useless because you could find a connection between any random player and any random song/movie/clue.
Like in hindsight one thinks it makes sense but ahead of time is really just a crapshoot. I dunno, guess I’m still gonna be trying as we wait for day two after trading down again… 😉
Maybe so. But, still fun if nothing else.
That’s why he does it. It’s not easy to nail them at all.
But, its a guessing game just like mock drafts.
Now that trades put Goff and Wentz out of reach for them, won’t the 49ers go for Connor Cook? I’m not sure if he is much worse. I like him better than Goff. I wouldn’t worry about the Niners with Kaep or Gabbert, but the next guy up will decide when to notice.
I am going to go out on a limb again but: of the many top DT prospects, I keep coming back to Chris Jones. Looking at film, style wise, he stands out as a penetrator and pass rusher. I also think Nkemdiche has that look. Do you want a LOS/Mebane run stuffer/gap discipline type or a pass rusher?
I agree.
IMO he’s a top 3 interior rusher in this class.
A bit ‘hit and miss,’ but when he he hits/flashes, he wowes ya.
His self-described flamboyant personality might tilt the room for guys like PC/JS. Also he’s a former 5 star.
Seattle is gonna take a guy like this. They do every year. Might not be him. Maybe it’s Nebraska’s Alex Lewis or something.
Jones is 310+ lbs and has crazy length, which I believe undercuts his perceived value as a pass rusher. You expect the strong pass rushers at DT to be smaller guys for the most part. He’s not a grinding run-stuffer (at least not yet anyway), but he is one of the top 3 interior pass rushers in this class IMO (Buckner and Rankins being the others).
I don’t know what they’ll think about his maturity and effort level, but I’ll be ecstatic if they draft him at 26 or later. A nickel pass rush of Bennett and Jones at DT with Avril and Clark off the edge could be the best 4 man rush in the NFL as soon as this season.
I am with you guys on Jones. The best DT tape I have seen from this entire class is his game this past year against Missouri. He absolutely dominated. I think we are in the minority though with this line of thinking as he does seem to have some attitude issues. From a pure talent standpoint though he would be a steal at 26.
Trevor – I think we’re definitely in the minority lol.
I found several really impressive snaps from all of his game tape. Missouri was definitely one of the best. If you haven’t watched the Arkansas tape I’d recommend that too.
Do you know if he had any snaps against McGovern?
Not sure about 26, wouldn’t surprise me, but in a trade back, man does he become exciting.
If it weren’t for the ‘character issues,’ he’s a top 20 kind of talent.
And I know he’s admitted that he under-acheived, at least he’s accountable, but with his confidence, I’m wondering if his definition of NOT under achieving is flat-out dominating snap to snap.
He’s attending the draft. I think he’s going to go earlier than most people think. He gets instant pressure (sub 2 seconds) on the QB better and more consistently than any other DT this year. IMO, he’s a borderline top 5-10ish talent in the draft, who will drop to the 20s due to the “character issues.” Could definitely be wrong, and the maturity questions are legit.
It’s entirely possible.
I kinda think he goes 35-45 range.
If the Hawks could make a couple trades to back up to that range, then use the draft pick ammunition gained to move up from 56 as well, that would be perfect. In that scenario I would hope they target Jones and Coleman. Two borderline top 10 talents IMO who could be there in round 2.
Yeah.
That would be sweet.
Or trade back, grab Jones, don’t panic and grab Coleman at 56.
During today’s interview PC said JS has this innate ability to predict and know where prospects are going to get drafted, range wise.
Said it’s why they can always get ‘their’ guys.
That would be awesome!
I think about the whole bully attitude and i think Shon Coleman and maybe Joshua Perry am i wrong on this
P
Love Coleman! No lineman in this draft plays with more of an edge. My dream draft is Rankins Rd#1 and Coleman Rd#2.
If the medicals check out and Rankins is gone then Coleman would be my pick at #26.
I like the way you think Trevor. I’d actually take him even before Rankins if all the boxes are checked for his knee and cancer history. The only OL I like more in this draft is Tunsil.
Yep
PC says they’re looking at O-lineman that don’t play in a 3 point stance and aren’t knocking guys off the ball in the run game all day lng.
He almost sounded disgusted didn’t he!
He kinda did.
Starting to think that they’re gonna let the rest of the league panic and over-draft O-lineman.
I think they will just draft 5 DTs and decide in camp if they go OL or DL.
🙂
I still think their first 2 picks are gonna be O-line D-line or D-line O-line.
LG and C look like the 2 areas they’ll address.
I don’t think RT is a huge concern.
Lol. Good one Eran. Cable is probably twisting his moustache as we speak, saying, “If they only knew my power!”
Sounds to me like PC/JS are preparing fans to be ready when they don’t take an OL prospect early during the pre-draft presser.
Here’s what the VMAC visit list said to me.
DL-early
OL-anywhere
DB-early
WR-UDFA
RB-anywhere
Agree completely
I love doing a blind comparison between players. Here is one of the most interesting ones for me:
Production
Player A – 48 Games, 25.5 Sacks, 42.5 Tackles for Loss, 169 Total Tackles, 6 Forced Fumbles
Player B – 53 Games, 18 Sacks, 36 Tackles for Loss, 232 Total Tackles, 2 Forced Fumbles
Measurables
Player A – Ht 6’6 5/8″, Wt 285, Arm Length 34 1/2″, 10yd split 1.69, SS 4.25, TC 7.03, VJ 30, BJ 9′ 3″, SPARQ 124.3, wTEF 84.91
Player B – Ht 6’7″, Wt 291, Arm 34 3/8″, 10 yd split 1.77, SS 4.47, TC 7.51, VJ 32, BJ 9′ 7″, SPARQ 112.6, wTEF 88.77
Neither player has a red flag and player A is a couple years older than player B. Both played against good competition. However, one is rated as a consensus top 10 player and the other might be available at the bottom of the second round. Who are they?
Player A – Bronson Kaufusi
Player B – DeForest Buckner
I know Volume12 says he thinks Kaufusi will be a better pro and I think he is right. Kaufusi is more Seahawky IMO, he consistently looks to cause chaos and turnovers. If we trade back into the top of Rd. 2… I say Kaufusi should be our pick.
IMO Kaufusi will be at 56.
So, Seattle does view C Ryan Kelly as a 1st round talent, but aren’t expecting him there at 26?
Interesting.
Did you hear that in a press conference? Very interesting, I’m surprised they would peg him as a 1st round talent. Maybe not to surprising though… their profiles for centers have been all over the place if you take into consideration LJP, Lewis, and Nowak.
As long as Arizona doesn’t get Kelly either I’m good.
No. They gave nothing away.
It’s in Matt Miller’s breakdown of each team. He said Seattle has been more quit than they usually are. It’s also why I asked it as a question.
Jason La Confora also had something interesting to say.
He talked about Seattle probaby grabbing a player that falls due to injury. How many guys on the O-line are there like that? 5-7?
Coleman?
That sounds like Coleman to me! I really hope so.
So, no they don’t.
Matt Miller has no insight to the Hawks. Weak analysis from him
Jalen Ramsey vs. Eric Berry
Ramsey – 6-1 209 4.41 40, 41.5 inch vertical, 135 inch broad jump, 6.94 3 cone, 4.18 short shuttle
Berry – 6-0 211 4.47 40, 43 inch vertical, 130 inch broad jump, 6.80 3 cone, 4.23 short shuttle
Berry has longer arms and bigger hands, but both guys are really close to each other in measurements and athleticism. I remember Berry being talked about as one of the best safety prospects ever. Ramsey is going to be make an extremely good free safety that can play in the box.
Yeah I am not sure why everyone is trying to make him a corner when he has they talent to be an All Pro Safety.
Both Pete and John emphasized that they trade up, they’ve traded up twice.
Rankins anyone?
Anybody done the scouting on Alex Lewis? Word on the streets is he’s a nasty underrated tackle!
I feel like your take on Shon Coleman is a lot like your take on Joel Bitonio before the 2014 draft. You wanted the hawks to take him but they didn’t (because he’s not seahawky).
In the end your evaluation was right though. Bitonio had a great rookie year (injured last year I think), and he’s a very solid guard. You might be right about Coleman too (wouldn’t be surprised), but I still don’t think they’ll draft him.