Tyler Ervin is one to really monitor
In such a disappointing running back class (with a handful of exceptions) it was interesting to read Darrell Bevell spent considerable time with Ervin at his pro-day.
He’s not the type of powerful, explosive runner they’ve generally sought. He’s 5-10, 192lbs and is to running backs what Tyler Lockett is to receivers.
That’s maybe the point.
The Seahawks do love size, power and physicality — but they also like suddenness, speed and explosive plays. With so few bigger, athletic runners available — Ervin’s profile is intriguing in a different way.
He ran a 4.41 at the combine, had a 39 inch vertical and a 10-10 in the broad jump. These are all very good numbers. He also had 1601 yards and 13 touchdowns in 2015 — not bad for a ‘scat back’.
It’s worth remembering that the Seahawks don’t just value athleticism. They love production and character. Ervin has both in spades.
Having visited with Lance Dunbar before he re-signed in Dallas — the Seahawks might be just tweaking their offense a little bit. They’ll still run with power predominantly — but adding a passing dimension to the running back group could be an option. Ervin can still run the ball up the middle — but he’s a potentially explosive compliment to their backfield.
Lining Rawls, Ervin and Jimmy Graham on the field at the same time could be tricky to defend. It might also take some of the strain off a rebuilt offensive line — offering Russell Wilson a simple check-down and a more dynamic passing option than 35-year-old Fred Jackson.
Don’t be shocked if they take Ervin as high as round three. He could be one of the guys they don’t want to leave the draft without.
Talking defense at #26
The Seahawks appear likely to draft an offensive lineman in round one for various reasons. They lost two key starters, have only really replaced one of them and they need greater depth, talent and competition up front.
When Pete Carroll has identified a need in the past it’s often been aggressively rectified — sometimes in the draft.
But you’ve heard all this before.
So let’s at least consider some of the things that might make it possible for the Seahawks to go with a defensive player at #26.
1. They’d have to be absolutely convinced that Garry Gilliam and J’Marcus Webb are the unchallenged starters at tackle. It’s almost impossible to believe they’d think that way — but with so few tackles likely to be available after round one, it’s likely what they’d need to believe.
2. Carolina recently started Michael Oher and Mike Remmers and made it to a Super Bowl. The Panthers’ strong interior line was a major strength during their run. It’s certainly possible for Seattle to build up the interior line in rounds 2-4. Of course, it’d be even easier to draft Germain Ifedi, Shon Coleman, Jason Spriggs or Taylor Decker at #26 and plug them inside — while allowing them to at least provide extra depth and competition at tackle. But there are good options after the first round at center and guard.
3. The Seahawks didn’t fight the strength of the draft in 2014 and took a receiver with their first pick. The depth at wide out would’ve enabled them to wait until round two, three or four and get an impact player. The depth at offensive tackle was much weaker. Yet they stayed true to their board and took Paul Richardson. This led to them somewhat desperately reaching for Justin Britt in round two — but they were willing to take that risk. We’ll see if they do something similar this year.
4. It’s not a great draft for pass rushers. It is a good draft for space eaters and run stuffers. If they feel like they absolutely need to add a potent pass rusher — they might have to do it early. Whether that’s an Emmanuel Ogbah outside or a Jonathan Bullard at defensive tackle. That said — Carroll has noted that the O-line is the priority and they do already have Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril and Frank Clark on defense. The existing talent on the O-line is much weaker — but they trust and depend on Tom Cable to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.
5. They’d need to believe an impact player on defense would be the difference between contending again and just falling short. Certainly it’d be a big benefit to add another disruptor. Whether the Seahawks can convince themselves that’s more important than rebuilding the O-line having lost two experienced starters is the big question.
Admittedly it’s not an altogether convincing case. For every point there’s a counter, highlighting how much it makes sense to draft for the O-line at #26 and then go from there.
Is there a scenario to satisfy both those hoping for an early injection of O-line talent and those wanting an impact defensive player? Absolutely — and we discussed it on the blog recently. Take your preferred O-liner at #26, then trade up in round two to get your pass rusher using one of your two third round picks.
In 2014 the Eagles traded up from #54 to #42 for a late fourth rounder — a generous deal on behalf of the Titans. The Seahawks are unlikely to get a bargain like that but their tradable third round pick could get them into the early 40’s or late 30’s. That could land them Bullard to go with the offensive lineman — and you’d still have a compensatory third round pick spare.
Is Karlos Dansby an option for the Seahawks?
He’s not an obvious scheme fit — but this is one of the fun things about the Pete Carroll version of this franchise. They’re flexible and willing to adapt to suit the talent available.
The #AZCardinals haven't reached out to LB Karlos Dansby, hearing the Seahawks have shown some interest.
— Mike Jurecki (@mikejurecki) March 21, 2016
There’s no indication how strong the interest is — but it’s interesting nonetheless. Dansby is 34 and no longer the player who once ran a 4.45 at the 2004 combine with a 41.5 inch vertical at 245lbs. He’s still an incredibly physical, tough guy.
If the Seahawks want to be the bully again — as John Schneider claims — this is the type of player that can help them get there.
The reaction of the Arizona fans to the Tweet was telling:
@mikejurecki Do not let the Seahawks get Karlos Dansby
— Andy Kwong (@k_andykwong66) March 21, 2016
It might be a long shot and who knows how they’d fit him into Seattle’s defense — but the guy can play the brand of football this Seahawks defense is used to.
Dansby had three interceptions and two touchdowns in 2015. He also had two forced fumbles and deflected six passes. He’s two years removed from a 6.5 sack season for the Cardinals.
If the Seahawks take a chance, they’ll be getting a possible impact player that knows the NFC West.
Alternative O-line options at #26
I might do a bigger piece on this down the line — but I spent time over the weekend considering some alternative options other than the big, athletic tackles at #26.
Some are obvious. Cris Collinsworth mocked Ryan Kelly to Seattle last week and made a very strong case for that line of thinking.
Others aren’t quite so obvious — and that’s testament to Tom Cable’s way of doing things. They’re just as likely to consider a unique, SPARQ superstar as they are a modest, unspectacular athlete who plays with his hair on fire.
For example:
Athletes — Okung, Sweezy, Gilliam
Tough guys — Moffitt, Britt, Unger, Giacomini
Big guys — Carpenter, Bailey
I’m led to believe they at least had some tentative interest in Laken Tomlinson a year ago before he was drafted at #28 by Detroit. Had he dropped into round two he could’ve been an option. His combine performance was extremely modest.
Cody Whitehair didn’t sparkle in Indianapolis this year — at least in terms of the numbers. He ran a decent 5.08 but only managed 25 inches in the vertical jump. Watching the drills, however, he looked fluid and natural with great balance and bend. He looked like an ideal fit to kick inside to guard or center. His footwork and mobility did not look clunky or lacking in athleticism.
He also has tackle experience at Kansas State and plays a physical brand of football. His tape is very good and his ability to play multiple spots could appeal.
The one issue might be length. He has 32.5 inch arms. It’s not a death sentence for offensive linemen — Joe Thomas has short arms too. Yet the Seahawks haven’t drafted an offensive lineman with sub-33 inch arms in the Carroll era. We know how strict they are with cornerback length — it might be a similar case for offensive linemen.
Whitehair would give them options at center and both guard positions — plus he could play tackle if needed. Considering the massive size and upside of other players (Germain Ifedi has everything physically and a nice comparison to Kelechi Osemele courtesy of Mock Draftable) — he might not be the guy they take. Yet it’d be wrong to rule out some of the less spectacular specimen’s in this draft. Cable has shown there’s no exact type he goes for. It’s really more of an attitude thing first and foremost.
Hey Rob, heard this morning on Brock and Salk that if D’brickshaw Ferguson gets cut the Seahawks could be interested. Thoughts on him? Also Do you think we are waiting for a veteran Tackle to be released or do we really believe that we have the talent already and can add to that in the draft?
I’m surprised people keep linking the Seahawks to ageing, veteran tackles.
They chose not to pursue Donald Penn, Russell Okung and Kelvin Beachum.
And yet people still think they’ll go for Ryan Clady (more injured, more expensive than Okung) or D’Brickashaw Ferguson (why would the Jets cut him if he’s any good?).
I think the Seahawks have sent a very clear message that they’re going to build up this O-line during the draft.
Yeah, I guess that was what I was trying to get at with my question. Not sure if we were just missing out on vet tackles or if we were going to let this play out in the draft. Makes the most sense to do this in the draft. As always, appreciate your input.
Is it too early to conclude that Cable’s plans are clear at this point?
Event suggest that they will avoid the aging veterans and higher priced ones. I would even bias towards the most extreme version, which is that they will repeat what they did last season to some degree.
The reason why some of us keep considering the older veterans is because the confidence in the process is not 100%.
Steele, agreed about not being sold on the process.In the past we have always known that the Seahawks are run first team and are willing to sacrifice pass protection for superior run blocking. However last season not only was Russell Wilson getting killed, but they couldn’t run block either at least not at 1st. This was evidenced by their failure to close out all those games the first half of the season . If they be able to run the ball into those games that wouldn’t of been so much pressure on our defense.
I also realize that many of the past linemen they brought in were experienced veterans who already were experienced at this level to get the job done to a certain degree. People just had to put them in the system. It’s hard to not be concerned about the rooky linemen that Cable has been bringing in. Justin Britt, carp, Terry poole, even JR- have been disappointing.
I really hope the emphasis is bringing on quality in terms of talent and not system guys
I honestly like our plan better than the Cardinals plan. They spent a lot of money on Evan Mathis who is old and didn’t play well last year, and also traded one of their most promising young guards to boot. Meanwhile the Seahawks are putting together a kind of piecemeal line. At the end of this year, the Seahawks and Cardinals are going to be compared as how to make a good offensive line and how not to. We will see which side of the fence each team falls on; However, the Seahawks are not breaking the bank to put together their OLine. They are relying on cheap, mauling linemen who can be coached up to play at a high level in the ground game. A lot of what a good ground game does is free up the passing game, so they may be onto something here. Actually, we’ve seen it work before with a less-than-ideal line.
Additionally, with the new rule against chop blocks, jobs are becoming harder and harder for offensive linemen anyway regardless of talent. See this tweet from Geoff Schwartz:
Geoff Schwartz @geoffschwartz
The best way to get a DT to not hold us on double teams, is a chop block. Now there’s nothing to stop them. Fun times.
Times were already favoring the defensive line over its offensive counterpart anyway. With D-Linemen getting more and more athletic, it is hard for OLs to compete. Perhaps the best way to maneuver these OL troubles is to accept the disparity, and create a line that works for your identity while keeping the cap hit low. Especially when you have a dynamic running demon in Rawls and a great scrambling threat in Russell Wilson.
You bring up some interesting points.
Love Tyler Ervin. I’d be all over him in the 3rd round. Can’t get much more dynamic, explosive, and field-tilting than he is. Plus the character, intelligence, and production.
Would Darren Sproles be a good comp for Ervin?
Sure. There are some similarities, but also differences too.
A RB version of Tyler Lockett is a good comp too.
Sproles, to me was a little bit faster, freakier.
Tyler Ervin reminds me a lot of Reggie Bush (post NO)
Smaller shiftier back with hands and a chip on his shoulder
Bush ain’t a bad comp either.
But, while Ervin is a chess piece, I think he’s much more of a natural RB than Sproles is.
You could even say Ervin is a RB version of Percy Harvin.
Oh noes… you went there. 😛
Reggie Bush. Sproles. Shane Vereen. CJ Spiller.
This type of back is useful to have.
Ervin has some ball security issues on this clip. He’ll have to clean that up.
Westbrook a better comp IMO.
I liked what I see from Ervin. While watching the video he reminded me of Matt Forte. Not body wise, but running style and ability.
A perfect, typical Seahawks pick.
Absolutely.
After what the RBs did at the combine, majority disappointed, Ervin screamed ‘Seahawks’ at me. His size doesn’t bother me at all.
They never even brought a back in his size before and he had two turnovers in that game, I wouldn’t use perfect
One turnover.
And they hadn’t drafted anyone of Lockett or Wilson’s size before they did.
The fumble and the pick that bounced right of his chest are two. And baldwin and prich are very close to Lockett size. As far as wilson they said he had everything but height. There’s been many scat backs I’ve like that came out but all I see Irvin being is a back up returner or a very limited role on offense.
You can’t put an interception, thrown into blanket coverage at speed on the RB when the defender makes a great play.
I would agree with that but it wasn’t full speed and it looked like the ball bounced off his chest not the defenders hand. However this is the only film I seen of him and all I can judge him on. Auburn is a great team, San jose not so much and he made a lot of things happen, there’s a lot to like about him. If they target him in the 3rd I think it would mean a big offensive identify switch. I just don’t see it happening. Ever since washington left I been hoping they add someone like him, I just don’t see it though
With all the comp comparisons on here, Leon would be a good one too.
I think even the fumble was a bit of a freak. He, at 5-10 and 192lbs, is asked to run up the middle on 4th and 1 against a SEC defense for San Jose State. He leaps and reaches the ball out and one of the Auburn players punches it out. It’s not a mishandling of the ball — just one of those things.
The pick is a bad decision IMO by the QB and a good play by the defender.
Stretching the ball out in that situation is definitely mishandling the ball though. It was a horrible decision on his part.
This is simply not true Rowdy. It’s fourth down and if he doesn’t get that yard it’s a turnover anyway. He had to reach out. Give the defense some credit.
Good call, you’re right
That was a weird goal line dive situation. He likely learned from that and doesn’t stretch the ball if it ain’t actually for a td.
Having a Swiss army knife scat back who can run and catch is not a new idea. Witness Harvin, who should have been that kind of jack-of-many x-factors.
I am a fan of Prosise, wouldn’t mind Ervin.
But anything above rd.3 for a skill position makes me nervous. They other problems need to be addressed.
The Patriots emphasize small, quick, shifty types who do many things. That has helped Brady overcome o-line difficulties.
If Russell develops into more of a master of the short passing game, he will reap the same benefits.
players like this become even more useful when the QB has time to check down
Players who can come out of the backfield and run routes like a WR, and thrive in one-on-one situations, are really really useful and it would be great for the Seahawks to have on ala Dion Lewis.
Great post. I agree that in Round 2 we’ll most likely look for a pass-rushing option. What do you think of Sheldon Day? I watched his tape this weekend and he really impressed. Didn’t the Seahawks scout ND quite a bit last year?
They certainly did.
Day is hit and miss for me. Love how active he is but at times it’s action for the sake of it — he doesn’t live in the backfield. Not many guys like him performing in the league so that bothers me. That said — he’s a bring him on in specialist downs type — and that’s kind of what they need in the interior.
How about Tapper at 56? Seems like he could be a good fit, not sure he makes it to 90.
He might go top-45.
I just believe that we all think it will be a tackle which is why it won’t be.
Why?
They’re not as unpredictable as people think. What they’ve said they’re going to do — they’ve done every time. It’s just the guys they’ve taken that have been surprising at times.
Great work Rob keep up the great work
I’m torn on Nkimdechi, how would you feel about him at 26?
My view on Nkemdiche is he has a very, very serious issue that he needs to address and solve before beginning a pro-career. That won’t happen of course. So whichever team drafts him is going to have to handle that. I think he’s a more serious case than Randy Gregory and I don’t think he’s going to go in the first round.
One of my biggest concerns is the two brothers (Robert and Denzel) are bad for each other. And this isn’t a friend you can push away for the sake of your career. It’s family. And until they are out of each others lives — I’m not sure they can ever truly find help.
The off the field stuff + attitude displayed during the press conference at the combine sunk his ship…. unless he was available in round 3, which will not happen.
For some there are places in society that appears foreboding, when others may find it to be less challenging. All varying differences are based on comfort zone. Pete has seen and experienced things that most have not in dealing with such a player. I would not discount the possibility of Nkimdeche @ 26, if he’s there.
Great read on Irvin @ 3rd Rd. SF will pick him @ 68, their 3rd pick. They would have to trade up to get him, or the shocking 2nd Rd pick used to get him. They could trade dn 10 spots and pick up another pick with Irvin. I see Harvin without the migraines. Bevel was completely beside himself on what he would bring to his offense. Definitely a must get!
I see you continue to gloss over Nkemdiche’s clear and very serious issues.
Let’s not have this debate again. We’ve done it over and over.
Bruce Irvin, Christine Michael, James Carpenter…that’s why!
Your reply makes zero sense.
Bruce Irvin — the Seahawks said their #1 priority was speed in the front seven. Their two first picks in the 2012 draft were Irvin and Bobby Wagner.
Christine Michael — the Seahawks said they wanted touchdown makers. Their first two picks in the 2013 draft went on Percy Harvin (trade) and Michael.
James Carpenter — the Seahawks said they wanted to dramatically upgrade their run game. Their first pick in the 2011 draft was the best run blocking left tackle in college football who basically contributed the most to Mark Ingram’s Heisman.
The positions they chose were not a shock. The players were slightly. Although on each occasion on this blog we highlighted all three for the very reasons they were drafted.
Ok here is a better question? If you had to guess who 26 is ( assuming they keep it) would you bet Oline or the field?
I don’t gamble 🙂
My point is, is we all think it’s going to be a Tackle, but if I was a betting man I’d bet it won’t be.
Love love love love love Tapper.
Great pass rush moves (bull, rip, swim, spin, pole arm all present)
I gotta say with what we have in Rawls and CMike, I would like the Ervin pick (assuming we got OL at 26 and OL again with one of the next 3 picks). If we are able to upgrade our O-line and have some nice run blocking (Tom Cable’s specialty) it would be nice for Ervin to get big running lanes opened up for him to explode through.
So he is basically Tyler Lockett if Tyler was a RB huh? I like the idea of screens and quick passes and jet-sweeps and splitting him out wide and tricky stuff with Rawls also on the field. Would be cool. I’d love it if they got this guy and then had a bigger back in UDFA that they priority targeted and acquired. A guy to be on the PSquad and develop for a year or two.
—————————————–
I gotta say, no matter what, I just don’t see our need being strong enough anywhere for it to be worth not going OL twice in our first four picks (with 26 being a sure thing OT pick). We have some needs, but none even close to our OL need. Could we use a DE? a LB? a RB? sure, yeah, of course…but to take anything other than OT at 26, to take anything other than a G/C with one of the next 3 picks…it’s insanity.
I really like Dansby; but I’m dubious, simply because he’s 34. Rob, what do you think is a good price for Dansby?
Wouldn’t want to pay more than $3m. That would be my top limit.
I’m thinking in the 2M range, for a situation LB, not a full time guy. He would bring valuable depth to the LB group…. which is one place I think they are a bit thin right now.
I’m thinking the minimum salary and maximum bonus allowed to meet the veteran exception, which would result in a cap charge of 680k, but put 1.065m in his pocket
I’d like to know from someone how Dansby could specifically contribute in our defense. Could you put him at SLB permanently? Would you only use him on 3rd downs/passing situations and have him cover the tight end? Or would he be more of the WLB, replacing KJ Wright and moving Wright back to SLB?
I would expect as the starting SLB. At this stage of his career, Wright is the better WLB due to his exceptional coverage skills. Dansby would probably be off the field in most pass defense sub packages, and on the field for goaline/run defense sub packages.
Wow! Looks like Brian Westbrook.
Really like his solid ability to run it between the tackles, but will likely not be asked to do that at the next level. Great hands, great patience paired with decent vision.
Like the way he popped right up after the fumble and resumed imposing himself.
I like Dansby for a year. Maybe he can play Will. I think it’s similar to weakside inside lb in a 3-4. Move KJ out to Sam?
Why don’t the Seahawks use the RB screen game as much as some other teams? Not WR bubble screens, but a traditional, RB screen package. Surprised they don’t use it more.
Also: I know most people posting are focusing on addressing the O-line, and I do agree with that. But I wouldn’t mind at all if PC/JS used the 26th pick to take a Sheldon Rankins or Robert Nkemdiche if either is available at 26. Need that interior rush, as was shown in SB49.
I wonder that, too.
Rob, do you think the Hawks pull the trigger if Nkemdiche is sitting at 26?
I don’t. I like Nkemdiche the player but have voiced serious concerns about his character on here. He has a problem — a very serious problem — and he needs to address that and seek help before beginning a pro football career IMO. I don’t see anyone taking him in R1. Personally I believe his issues to be more serious than Randy Gregory.
What about Rankins? I know he’ll probably be long gone by the 26th pick, but on the small chance that he is still available, should Pete and John draft him? I personally would. There’s enough OL depth from rds 2-7 to address OL, whereas there are only about 2 or 3 true difference makers in terms of interior pass rush.
The thing I like about Rankins (and Nkemdiche also) is that there’s a run-stopping dimension, not just pass-rushing.
I like Rankins and if he’s there they’ll consider him.
But he’ll be long gone. Top-15.
Yup, it’s probably pointless to even discuss Rankins at 26. He demonstrated his talent during the season, and has done nothing since to lower his stock. And with Aaron Donald’s success, even if Rankins is a poor man’s Donald, many teams drafting high would certainly sign for that.
“Why don’t the Seahawks use the RB screen game as much as some other teams? Not WR bubble screens, but a traditional, RB screen package.”
I am just speculating here. A couple of reasons. Now that the Hawks have Tyler Lockette he is very explosive. But I think the main reason( before Lockette) is because they feel it benefits the running game. If you notice many of these bubble screens are early in the game. They are designed to give the defense something else to look. Which (in theory) can open holes in the running game.
But the same can be said for the screen pass. Also the bubble screens make me want to die unless they are to Lockett and Kearse is blocking, I love Doug b but the guy is underwelming whenever he has the ball on screen plays
I agree.
I’d be okay if I never had to watch jermaine kearse catch a bubble screen again. PRICH and Lil Lockett are deadly. But Kearse seems like a wasted play.
Hahaha!
Some plays are not designed to be hyper successful. They are designed to make the defense be aware that it could happen, making other plays successful. The more the defense has to think about the less likely they will be to make the right decision.
Kearse bulls for a few yards every time, he does it consistently too. He may not be the biggest WR, but he has a knack for putting his head down and picking up 3-4 yards even when the play is defended well. Lockett’s a threat to score a TD though, so it really is situationally dependent on how useful each is at the WR screen. Baldwin does ok if he has some room to work the sideline, but he is less consistent than Kearse and much less explosive than Lockett.
I’ve wondered too. Could it be that RW’s lack of height makes it tough for him to get the ball up and over the DLinemen? The few times I can recall them running a RB screen, RW has lobbed the ball in traffic which is never a good idea.
I don’t think the Seahawks run many drawplays either. Seems like they go empty backfield on 3rd and long.
Phil: You make a GOOD point about Seattle’s lack of screens to their running.
I’m guessing it’s because the risk/reward isn’t there. Last year in the GB game the Hawks were behind and driving down the field and Wilson throws an interception on a screen pass. Also, against Dallas Hardy tips and intercepts another ball (was not a slip screen play per se, but the logic applies), the screen allows unblocked defenders in the face of a back pedaling QB while the OL block downfield. For some reason Wilson does not seem that great lobbing passes over tall d-lineman (prob his height) and if you are going to risk throwing an interception you may as well throw a 40-yard jump ball instead of a play that 4x out of 5 will be stopped for less than 10 yards.
If we’re talking about attitude, perhaps no one fits that more than Stanford’s Josh Garnett. Outta the question in round 1?
Kind of reminds me of big Carp.
Not out of the question — but he’s a one position guy who has had conditioning issues. They might want a player, IMO, that can challenge to start at different positions and offer depth/flexibility.
The conditioning is definetly worrisome.
Positional versatility makes sense to me. I can dig it.
The Hawks have one of the best conditioning programs in the league don’t they? Or is that just a word of mouth thing I’ve heard but isn’t necessarily true? Cary Williams commented on it last year
I imagine they have — but a player has to commit to it too.
It’s not as much of an issue for me as Garnett’s inability to play anything other than LG. This team needs competition at tackle and guys who can still kick inside.
I’m sure they do but at the same time Michael Bowie and Alvin Bailey showed up out of shape. It’s on the player to actually participate in the conditioning.
That’s why I like the Whitehair, McGovern and later Dahl options. If the Hawks see Gilliam as the left tackle of the future, and I believe their turning down the oppooetunity to beat Okung’s Denver offer means they likely do, then choosing guys who can play guard or center and were successful tackles in college is an intriguing possibility.
I like Martin and Glasgow for similar reasons, though they weren’t tackles.
Garnett really disappointed me, because I went into his tape with the knowledge that he loved the idea of playing for the Hawks. Everything he did just looked slow, without any fire. He’s already slow to pull, but when he does he often runs into people in Stanford’s power scheme. Just a Guy, from my first watch through. Really couldn’t see the Hawks taking him anywhere in the draft.
Didn’t have the same takeaway from his tape. He’s not a phenomenal athlete but he’s got very good size and length that the Hawks like at LG, and he’s a fluid mover. Dominant run blocker and solid pass protector. I chose to watch the Oregon tape first, since he reportedly struggled against Deforest Buckner. Yes he got beat a couple times by Buckner’s strength as a pass rusher, but Buckner is an unbelievable talent who could be a pro bowler next year. He often crushed Buckner in the run game and held up in pass pro 1-on-1’s for the most part. He’s right on the edge of being a first/second round talent in my book
He did give Buckner a hard time in the run game. Looked like any old limited pure guard.
Why is it that we can say that the Hawks prefer guys with position verasilitu along the offensive line, yet we don’t bat an eyelash when they take a Sweezy or a Sokoli who was switching AIDS of the ball and are pegged strictly for one position? I would trust Garnett to play other positions more than those two. I just think that it’s not a major concern. Those concerts are stuck at one spot. Garnett kicking butt at left guard doesn’t bother me at all. Ifedi or another tackle to team with Gilliam, and Webb mans the other guard spot where he belongs.
Wow, autocorrect aent crazy there. Switch SIDES of the ball…
Athletic freaks. moreso than anyone at those positions that came through the last 3 drafts. Something Garnett unequivocally is not.
Spot on…
Ervin reminds me of a LOT of Nap Kaufman. Small but tough, very sudden, tough, explodes out of cuts, good top end. Would love to see him on the Hawks at the right pick.
Wow. Haven’t heard that name in a long time.
Gaskins has every chance in the world to bring back what Kauffman and Dillon had and did.
Yes he does.
Kaufman also had a fine pro career for many years.
The Raiders really know how to kill UW greats careers
I was at his last game for UW the whole crowd chanted one more year after the game. One of UW’s all time greats
Nice read Rob. I tend to think it’s going to be a tackle at 26. I hope they can make a deal for a pass rusher so they don’t do a trade up in the 2nd. Instead they could trade back from the 2nd to the 3rd, say with Dallas. Could make sense for Dallas if they got their eye on a QB and still want to land a couple other shiny new toys for Mr. Jones. We trade 56 for 67 and 101 which would give us 90, 97, and 101. 3 picks in a sweet spot for this years draft. Sure we could get a quality OL at 56 but does moving 11 picks back (Dallas will not pick an OL at 56 so it’s essentially 10 picks back) going to make a difference? How many of these 11 teams will have already addressed OL with thei 1st? We might even get our target if we picked at 56. If we miss on McGovern we could still hit with Glasgow. Or we could go OLB at 67 if “our guy” is there and still pick up an OL, DT, and RB. Or if Jaylon Smith falls to 67??? Who wouldn’t take a stab at him knowing you can still fill our other needs with an additional pick at 101? I like the flexibility a trade back give us more so than moving up and losing a good pick at 90. Too many needs to loose it.
Ervin is interesting. Ideal 3rd down back. It would be interesting to know how much he did line up in the slot. Also ran out of the “I” a lot which is a good sign. Seems like a better pass catching Ameer Abdullah.
I like the idea of a third down back who can explode into a big play on occasion, as opposed to trotting forward a couple of yards and getting tackled, like Jackson. Not that he wasn’t very good in his day – just that his day and done died.
MJD has his first mock out, with 6 O-linemen gone by pick 21 (including Kelly). He has us going defense with Andrew Billings. Interesting.
You got a link?
Sorry…
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/mock-drafts/maurice-jones-drew/305652
That’s actually a very good mock hahaha
I can see the thought behind Billings. It’s an interesting idea. Replacing Mebane hasn’t gotten much attention this year.
Personally, can’t see them going for Billings. Gap discipline is vital in Seattle’s scheme and it’s one of Billing’s biggest weaknesses.
Considering his age I’ll give him a pass on Gap-discipline. One of my favorite players in this draft. Coach him up!
It’s funny, because Brock Huard has banging the table for Billings as a ‘Bane replacement, and then today he says Silinga is the replacement for ‘Bane.
I like Billings, he has some unique characteristics, but ends up on the ground a lot. His age worries me too. I wonder how a 20 year old kid is gonna handle grown a** men in the trenches.
Also thought it was interesting that one Minnesota coach compared Montana’s Tyrone Holmes to Everson Griffen.
Had more sacks than any FCS player including Spence and Hargrave, to go along with 24 TFLs.
Yes! Man amongst boys most games in FCS…
Keep him flying under the radar and snag him with our 6th please!
Billings turned 21 on March 6th. and Marcell Dareus came into the league at 21 aswell so I am not as concerned about age. I wouldn’t mind taking him as he is young and definitely has the tools.
Not as young as I thought.
I still can’t see Seattle spending a 1st on a base 1-tech or NT. 15-20 years ago? Sure. But, with more and more teams going to 3 WR sets, that nickel package is becoming more important. The base DT comes off the field anyways.
As we know, Seattle wants to shut down the run and force teams to become one dimensional. Billings, gets knockrd off his feet a ton, isn’t a pass rusher, would rather stand and hand fight, instead of occupying his gaps.
There are definitely moves I didn’t see the hawks making that they did. Drafting Paul Richardson ahead of Allen Robinson for one haha. I do agree I would be surprised but I do like the idea of Billings youth.
Honestly I feel whomever the hawks draft with their first pick ill probably be pleased with haha.
As Rob said, it’s not so much a surprise as to which position they take early on, but the players themselves.
They tend to go BPA at a position of need.
If I was a betting man, which I’m not, I’d bet the house on Seattle never drafting a 1-tech/NT/run-stuffer in the 1st round under PC/JS.
That’s a strange mock draft. Cody Whitehair going at 8, ahead of Conklin and Decker? Connor Cook off the board in the 1st round ahead of Lynch? I’m not buying it.
But i admit it’s fun reading any mock draft this time of year.
Yeah, not a lot else to do but wait.
Cody Whitehair at 8? Cmon man.
Great change of pace piece Rob. I love shifting my thinking in reaction to your posts.
Everybody already said everything that is to be said. You’d crazy not to want this guy on your team. I do hope he can fitted into whatever they are planning.
As for the first round pick:
As much as i may want to, i can’t see an option other then an OL pick. Other than the obvious reasons – JS once explained that the way they grad a player is by evaluating him in relationship with who they already have at the position. It creates a “quality coefficient table” that ranks the players by how much they improve the team. If they grade a new player at 80 and the guy they already have is a 60, that new guy is worth 20. If the new guy is 70 but the guy they have is 40, the new guy is worth 30 to the team.
It’s a concept designed to bring the most roster improvement per pick. To get a good mark you need to either perform at level far high then a solid mediocre player or just be good in a position that holds a poor player. If you are a top level talent and the current talent at that position is weak, you get to the top of the table. (I.E. it will react favorably to “fixing” a weak point at a higher priority)
In this draft at 26, i cant see the kind of defensive talent that can display a bigger improvement factor over what we already have that can beat the improvement factor of some of those OL players over our current stock. The “math” will favor OL.
I do hope they can get Dansby for a team friendly budget. You had me at bully….
That 2nd pick goes to the defense, trade up or not. We’ll probably be upset at first and then warm up to it. It’s a classic Seahawks pick. It will also be the pick that will win or lose this draft for me. I hope it’s a Wagner, not a C-Mike pick…
I agree with a lot of this Eran.
Very interesting post. It makes perfect sense really.
Based on this logic I would have to agree OL would have to be the pick in Rd #1 and likely Ifedi because he has elite level potential at Guard and the improvement over Britt would be astronomical.
Sure there are options. In fact, I’d take one. I’d take MSU’s Chris Jones and pick up an interior lineman in R2. Jones is a freak athlete who is strong enough at the point of attack against the run and, when he wants to, shows a quick disruptive burst upfield. Needs to refine technique, but possible great 3-technique. Have the bigger Rubin take over Mebane’s role with Siliga spelling him, put Jones in next to him.
R2 should have OL options that could still have great early impact. CBS (not the gospel, but good enough for our purposes here) has the following guys rated lower than #56: Shon Coleman, Garnett, Le’Raven Clark, Nick Martin, Westerman, Tretola, McGovern, Tuerk. I know, I know, they’ll all be gone before #56. Every year people name about 50 guys that will all be gone in the 1st round. Say Clark goes, say you don’t like Tretola. At some point at least 2-3 of those guys will still be there and could be a major upgrade to what we have, particularly Coleman and Martin.
I kinda don’t get it. People are saying it’s gotta be OL such as Ifedi because, “you can play him at LG at first and then he can eventually take over at tackle.” Well, if he’s just going to be your LG at first, that means you are still running out a line where Gilliam and Britt/Webb are your tackles. So if you can live with that, no need to take a LG at #26. Go ahead and take a potential Pro Bowler on defense or anywhere else. You can get a very good LG in R2.
I would actually like to see a line of Gilliam-Webb-Sokoli-Glow-Ifedi.
If all things went perfectly and they like the progression of sok/glow. It’s Ifedi’s (proven) versatility that makes him such a valuable asset to an oline like the Seahawks. Each spot can conceivably be upgraded.
I get what you are saying. But is that line really any better than, say, Gilliam-Webb-Lewis-Glow-Britt? Went to the Superbowl with Britt at RT. I don’t think I’m ready to say any rookie RT at#26 is going to be better than Britt.
But we won it with Giaco 😉
Chris Jones is a top 15 talent in this draft, perhaps higher. His elite blend of size, length and athleticism explodes off the tape. He struggles to finish plays with sacks and TFLs, but his ability to disrupt is awesome. I’m on the fence between him and Rankins. Go ahead and watch his tape vs. Missouri. It’s perhaps the best tape I’ve seen of any prospect in this draft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vguCmKduWrY
Spoiler alert: he’s the massive guy bursting into the backfield or pushing through double teams
Interesting, CBS has him 74th overall, 10th DT on the board. By that standard, easily available at 26, if not later.
Just sayin’…
Getting him in round 2 would be amazing, but he’s started to get some R1 hype after his pro day. In the scenario Rob wrote about where the Hawks trade up in round 2 for a defensive player, I hope it would be for Jones.
I like Chris Jones a lot, too, but it’s been awhile. I remember having the same reaction when he had a little bit of buzz midseason.
Jeremiah has him at #38, Charles Davis at #24, so it’s a risk. No trade up in R2, take him in R1. PFF (again, not the gospel, but a piece of the puzzle) rates him as the #2 DL and top 10 overall.
First round body — not a first round brain. That’s probably the best way to describe him.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25520437/nfl-prospect-chris-jones-charged-with-driving-with-suspended-license
I have seen him mocked in the 1st. too.
I’m kinda hoping for Joshua Perry in the 2nd, if he hangs on that long. OL in the 1st, LB in the 2nd, then DT and OL in the 3rd.
That would be a great pick in 2, if he’s there. He’s my favorite backer in the draft.
Eran. The only issue I have with this is that they don’t seem to value every position/skill set equally. The Seahawk are built around an elite defense and a run oriented offense.
You are right, the value of the position has to be a part in calculating the overall improvement value of each potential pick.
Question Eran. Let’s say the offensive tackle is rated 6.0. But the defensive player is rated 6.5. Do the Hawks take the offensive tackle?
It depends on who they are “replacing”. If they are both replacing player with a similar rate say 5.0, they will pick D. However, If the current OT is a 4.0 and the defensive player is a 5.0, they will pick the Tackle.
It may not be the best player left but it is the best upgrade they can get at that pick.
That is how i understand it.
Good piece as always Rob…
Dansby Would be a scary addition for opposing teams to have to think about. With a good rotation, Dansby would be able to come out fresh and lay some serious hat! If James Harrison can come out at 37 and deliver some punishment, then Dansby has got to have at least 2 years left to do the same. Bring the guy Out!
Please push out a bigger piece on O-line soon!!
Thank You sir!
Thanks man 🙂
Rob,
This site is addicting! Been checking it and reading the articles and comments every day! So, if the Hawks go with BPA, regardless of the strong need for OL, who would you see them taking? I know you outlined a few choices on defense. Who would be a big surprise on offense? You’ve written up Derrick Henry previously. I’m hoping his availability at 26 creates a “trade down” possibility for Dallas’ 2nd rd pick at 34.
I genuinely think the BPA’s might be on the O-line. Decker, Ifedi, Coleman, Kelly, Whitehair and personally I would include Martin. Defensively the upside of Ogbah really intrigues me. I love Keanu Neal. William Jackson is also a favourite.
Are you not a big fan of Springs or did you just not include his name.
Spriggs?
Not crazy about him. Prefer others.
When I watch Spriggs I see a guy that never gets push in the running game. He’s a decent pass protector, but he’s not powerful at all. He’s the antithesis of a Hawks lineman.
I prefer any of the first group of tackle prospects to Spriggs, even La Raven Clark.
If its between Ifedi and Ogbah I really hope its Ogbah. I think he will be the steal of the draft if he goes late first.
I am REALLY starting to warm up to Jonathan Bullard. The guy is a Michael Bennett clone. He plays every position on the defensive line. Maximum effort on every play. Explosive. 18 tackles for loss.
They don’t need to trade up in the 2nd to get a quality pass-rusher. Travis Feeney should be there at 56 and could easily last until the late 3rd, while Matt Judon should be there in the 3rd or 4th. As for a DT, Willie Henry is a great mid-round option.
I would expect an O-liner and a defensive player to be drafted with the first two picks.
Then focus on OL, RB.
The idea of trading up would be to get a specific player. It might be unlikely — but it depends how far they have to move.
Makes sense, yeah. Rob, normally I don’t come here asking about specific players, but do you have any thoughts on Matt Judon, another one of these small school wunderkinds? Even taking into account Grand Valley State’s competition, Judon impressed. He has the physical traits, the raw ability, and seemingly the right attitude to be a strong rotational pass rusher, if not more.
Watched some highlights and he dominated at that level. Physically impressive. Hard to project the smaller school guys though — you have to be really sure on them. Worth keeping an eye out to see if he gets a VMAC visit.
Let me add that trading down with their 2nd round pick (7-8 spots, with Denver or Tennessee) seems like a viable option as well. That would net Seattle an end-of-second/beginning of third pick, an early 5th, and possibly an extra 7th. An early 3rd could net them a very solid interior OL, while an early 5th would give them better options for a Seahawky CB in that range.
Rob, I am starting to get extremely worried that everyone is undervaluing Irvin having left not because of his pass rush but because he could cover so well, Seeing as there are no linebackers that are as athletic is there anyone outside of travis feeney who can cover and rush the passer? A long term legitimate option that isn’t as injury prone. I’ve seen some people on the site talking about montese overton who from the little tape i have found on him seems to be more than capable of being an NFL level player but maybe not an irvin replacement. The o line will be fine in this draft i think, with all the players you’ve laid out I’ve slowly been convinced that the Seahawks will sport a better o line than last year which is great but there is no one on the team that isn’t currently a starter that i can see replacing Irvin no one is fast enough and big enough. Maybe I am overrating Irvin’s value but any thoughts? First on a in house replacement and then on a draft selection outside of Feeney. Its not that i don’t want Feeney but his injury concerns are pretty big and we have already talked about him a lot on this site I’d like to see what else you have in mind.
Checkout Jatavius Brown from Akron. Small school and a little undersized but great speed and a playmaker. I really like him a lot.
I really like how athletic he is but part of my concern is the size although i suppose he would be better in coverage for the most part because he could keep up, Do you have any idea what round of the drat he could go in? or is he more of a UDFA
The MAC conference produces quality NFL players every year, plus some superstars. James Harrison and Julian Edelman are from Kent State. Antonio Brown was from a MAC school, and so was Rawls. I think Jatavius Brown, with his athleticism and production, will probably go in rounds 3-5.
While keanue Neal being our death backer would be nice it would cost us a round 1 pick draft ifedi then let’s have this dude do it he is more natural to the position and available in later rounds I’m all about it especially with that 4.47
He would add a lot of toughness Im seeing that the 49ers have scouted him though. I would like him to bring the bam back make players fear the middle
Did he really cover that well? I don’t recall him being a factor much in pass coverage last year.
I agree, Del. Irvin did a lot of things, in addition to pass rushing. Ken Norton has been swooning in the local Oakland press about how Irvin was the most versatile and athletic of all Seahawks, and will relish having him.
I think two players are needed to replace what was lost with Irvin. Because I don’t see many likely options to do all of it.
Honestly, I doubt they’ll miss Irvin at all.
He was benched late in 2013 in favour of Malcolm Smith. He was actually benched in at least two games in favour of Mike Morgan towards the end of 2015. His position essentially doesn’t exist on third down/passing downs because he was moving up to the LOS anyway — and that’s something they can use Frank Clark to do. They can pretty much manage this between Morgan, Clark and possibly KPL (plus any other draft picks they make). Your two every down LB’s are Wright and Wagner and they were both re-signed (no coincidence there). Davis Hsu did a very good breakdown on how little % of plays the Irvin position actually needs to be on the field.
Feeney is an option for them and a very intriguing one. But I don’t think they’ll feel they need to prioritise that as much as adding another pass rusher who plays at the DL.
Could you link me to that article? I actually haven’t been worried about the pass rush i think frank clark is a more complete pass rusher and has a higher ceiling than irvin (Irvin relied on that speed so much he didn’t really develop much else) , i think the Seahawks have been taking their rookies along slower these past few seasons, Frank Clark seemed to barely play especially early in the year same with lockett. I think both are poised to have huge breakout seasons just my gut feeling.
Also anything on an interior mid round pass rusher that you’ve heard? someone who can do what McDonald did in 13 for the hawks? or what jordan hill was supposed to do in 2015? I know you like Adolphus Washington but have the hawks shown any interest? anyone like Javon Hargrave or willie henry?
I’ve learned to trust ya rob! You really do a great job of analyzing especially when you look for mid round talent thanks for all the hard work!
Davis didn’t write an article, it was a series of Tweets.
Those are the three interior rushers I’d probably mention. To be honest it’s tough to get a good pass rusher this year in the draft. Still wouldn’t be shocked if we see a trade of some description.
Thanks Rob ?
I agree. I think Irvin was more unusual than unique. It was convenient that he became a line of scrimmage pass rusher on third down when his linebacker role would come off the field anyway. But it was never vital that HE be that person in either spot. I think Malcolm Smith covered as well or better and Irvin never really excelled as a pass rusher. I liked him as a player and his versatility saved a roster spot, but since his switch to linebacker I’ve always wondered if that dampened his progress as the pass rusher he was originally drafted to be.
actually honestly the more i watch washington the more convinced i am he could be an every down DT do they say he has problems run stopping?
He can play the run. I think the biggest question with him is how much is turns his motor on and off. That maybe his effort isn’t always there, game in and game out.
Link to Davis’ article?
It was a series of Tweets.
Thanks!
I agree Rob. Irvin was better in coverage before he put on the weight. He didn’t look quite as explosive.
Great summary of where we are, Rob.
“Take your preferred O-liner at #26, then trade up in round two to get your pass rusher using one of your two third round picks.” I can buy into this scenario. The question is how many o-liners need to be gotten in the first three rounds. Dipping below rd.3 risks a talent dropoff, and this time, I don’t think it is a good idea that they take that chance.
As for Dansby, I’m not understanding the idea there. Is he a short term Irvin replacement? He’s not a pass rusher. Isn’t he better suited to Wagner’s spot?
Regarding Dansby, I really think he could fit anywhere on the linebacking corp. He would be fantastic in KJ’s spot, could backup Wagner (we know Wagner has an injury history), and could probably do fine in Bruce’s spot. He isn’t a pass rusher at this point of his career but he’s very physical, bullyish, and forces turnovers. We know Pete wants bullies on the team and wants to force more turnovers next year. Dansby would help with both.
The Seahawks have been willing to be pretty flexible with their personnel. I could see Dansby being utilised (if they signed him) in very specific situations. He’s not a slouch and while he’s not a 4.45 runner any more with a 41.5 inch vertical — that’s unreal explosion and he’s still far from an average athlete.
And at the end of the day — they used Irvin as a situation player. If the interest in Dansby became legit and then a deal — he could be your base linebacker with Wagner and Wright. He can rush. He’d probably come off the field in obvious passing downs but Irvin didn’t cover in those situations he often rushed — and Clark could come on the field to take that role.
Okay, this makes sense.
When you say “talent dropoff” that isn’t necessarily true, but it might mean you are talking about a project, as Seahawks have been prone to take. I very much believe we need at least one guy out of this draft who will be a viable position on the line, and you hope one of the guys from last year makes a leap forward. The guys you are taking later probably have tremendous athletic potential (like a Sokoli) but you aren’t going to plug them in and go. Honestly, I’d feel better if we got two guys you could plug in somewhere. Heaven forbid we have an injury on the line during camp.
The more film I watch of Germain Ifedi, the more I believe that he is our guy. He has the quickest feed/slide of any tackle not named Tunsil or Stanley, he knows how to use his freakishly long 36″ arms, displayed his explosiveness at the combine, has a noticeable death grip, and if you watch any Tra Carson highlight tape, every big run to the right side is due to the massive hole that Ifedi opens up. Tom Cable could develop Ifedi into not only an All-Pro guard, but also an All-Pro tackle.
I have slightly lower expectations. I want him to be competent and not see his name very often when watching the TV. No false starts, no holding calls, no bone headed whiffs on blocks….. and maul people on the defense DL/LB.
He’s mighty consistent as well. I would only rank Tunsil as more consistent.
I went back to the Tunsil tape. That boy is no joke. He swallows everybody.
Emmanuel Ogbah got him on a nice inside move, but mostly had to stay on the other side of the field.
Rob,
With the Seahawks seeming to choose to start over with a young offensive line, do you think it will adjust what we look for in regards to a RB? You have watched way more tape than any of us. How is Rawls in pass pro? I would ask about Michael, but he’s a camp body at this point with a potential to make the team.
Specifically, do you think the Hawks will look for a veteran 3rd down back. Either to bring back Fred Jackson, or to look at Arian Foster for a limited role? Seems like to go young on O-line and at RB, without a blocking TE on the roster, could lead to a lot of running by Russ next year.
So far they’ve shown zero interest in the veteran RB market other than Lance Dunbar — which is interesting. They might add an older back down the line at the right price. That’s probably after the draft though.
Right now pass pro with the RB’s would be an issue but they might try to coach their guys up.
Rob,
You’ve got me sold on Ervin in the third round. The thought of having someone elusive after the years of Turbin and Fred Jackson is appealing. Especially to a fan base used to years and years of Mack strong catching a 1-yard pass on 3rd and 15.
So many good OL options at #26. I don’t care. Just get one. Kelly, Martin, Whitehair, Coleman, etc. I don’t care… just get one. Just looking at Whitehair some more, he’s so fluid. Just a natural football player. He may not be the stereotypical LG for a Tom Cable, but he does have the feel of a Cable player at C, RG, RT. By that, I mean Cable doesn’t seem to care about the measurables like Carroll does with 32 inch arms and the CB position. I’ve often wondered why Whitehair couldn’t play RT. His athleticism seems to evident on film, in comparison to some of the guys with longer arms.
Whitehair is a great prospect, no doubt about it, but so far TC has not drafted an O-lineman with less than 33″ arms. Let’s see if that hold up this year, because if it does, then we know it’s a threshold, just like the CBs with 32″ arms.
Okung 36″ arms
Carp 34″ arms
Moffitt 33″ arms
Sweezy 34 1/2″ arms
Britt 33 1/2″ arms
Scott 34 3/4″ arms
Poole 33 1/4″ arms
Glow 33 1/8″ arms
Soko 34″ arms
So it looks like the cut-off is 33″ arms for OL prospects. Very interesting.
Also, didn’t Whitehair only put up 16 reps at 225?
Here’s a hypothetical Rob. Are there any defensive players (let’s remove any consensus top 5) you would pick over O/L if they were available at #26? Rankins? Neal?….
There’s nobody I’d actively take. Nobody who’s ‘too good’ to pass on a key O-liner.
But if I thought I could address my OL needs in rounds 2-3, then I would consider a defensive player. It depends how the league grades certain guys I like on the OL.
I defer to Rob because he’s much more knowledgeable than I am, but I WOULD take Rankins or Nkemdiche if either was available.
Neither is as good a prospect as Aaron Donald was in 2014, but if they’re close (as I believe), then I’d take either at 26. I like that they are multidimensional, good pass rushers and good vs the run. None of this “he’s a two-down player” stuff. I like 3-down players!
On the field, Nkemdiche is the real deal. Some would say a top 15 pick skills/physicality wise. Off the field is the main reason he is being knocked down the draft board. He honestly is that good.
Rankins will be gone before #26. I feel comfortable in saying that. He is a valuable player from the interior, which this draft has truly elite top end DT types, but has a bunch of JAGs. He is one of the few who really stand out and has measurables that will make teams cream over him.
For me Rankins, if he happened to be there, would be the only defensive player I would consider outside of OL. The only other player, offensive player, that I would have to think long and hard about… RB E. Elliot. I seriously doubt he will be available, but I would have to think long and hard for 5 minutes during the draft if he was indeed available.
Rob, this weekend I took a look back through the 2nd tier pass rushers in this class and was just really blown away by my second look at Tapper’s tape. The only film on from this year on dbd is of Kansas and Iowa State, but he’s got starter tape going back to alabama in 13 when he chased an end zone bound amari cooper down from behind. At about 260 lbs.
He has decent burst off the ball, a vicious bull rush, a plus motor, and active hands. In his recent tape he displays an effective spin move to go along with his inside move, insane bull rush, and other moves.
Obviously, a top performer at the combine. Came in with 34′ 1/8th arms 11′ 1/2 hands with that 4.59 and 34′ vert. at 271 lbs.
Michael Bennett had a 5.19 at 274 coming out of TAMU
His vision and hand placement are his biggest limiting factors. Also he has that incredibly broad chest makes for an easy target. He might be redundant with the Frank Clark pick last year, but he has about the highest upside on the defensive side of the trenches.
He has a ton of potential if the fire burns in the pro’s. He could go top-45.
Pete and John should definitely look at him if he does have both effective bull rush and spin moves. Usually that combination makes for a pretty good pass rusher.
Surprised there doesn’t seem to be too much interest here for a physical smashmouth style back to compliment rawls and c mike. Rawls has a bit of a physical style as well, but knowing the seahawks love of a physical running game, there could be room for more.
Who is the physical smash mouth style back in this class you’d want to draft??
I’ll have my eye on Jonathan Williams pro day.
Already had it.
Tre madden as a udfa? He’s injury prone but also a big smash mouth guy
Rob Whats your thoughts on a RD 3 selection of Jerald Hawkins OT LSU
I think he’s a bad player Stevie. Thought he looked thoroughly hopeless against Alabama and in two others game my own personal assessment was undraftable. He and Vadal Alexander — I just wouldn’t touch them.
Those two LSU OL are the most over-rated players in the draft along with Ashawn Robinson
None that I’d draft. But there are some UDFA guys.
Devon Johnson- Marshall. Injury concerns, Lateral movement sucks. But he’s straight up power.
Reymound Wright-Stanford, Underused, but has got he power, and agility. Would be a solid Addition
Dyshawn Mobley- EKU- Dissapointing pro day, but I still like him.
Tre Carson-TA&M
None that I know of.
As far as 3rd down back types, Tyler Ervin looks pretty good though. Always scraps for extra yardage. Thanks for the heads up!
I like Ervin just fine, but where do you take him? I can’t see going RB in 2nd mostly because we have other needs. OT, DT, OLB OG, to me is more of a need than RB. Ervin is fine, but nothing so special – look at Wendell Smallwood WVU. Similar type of player with similar 40, 10 sec split, cone, broad – and someone who will likely be there in the lower rounds. Also returned punts and kicks – and can catch the ball out of the backfield.
Very fair point, CC. Also: Christian McCaffery is going to be available to be drafted next year, and I’d rather have him than Ervin. I do realize we would need to draft McCaffery in rd1 if we want him next year, whereas in this draft Ervin could be had probably in rd3.
McCaffery is going top 15 next year. That is a lock. He is everything multiple NFL teams are looking for and way more. Dynamic, explosive, pedigree, all-around player….. he definitely won’t go into the draft with a lack of press or hype.
Brian Westbrook — round three, #91 overall
Seattle has the #90 pick.
In the silly fanspeak simulation, I can up with this scenario of trying to knock of the two big needs on both sides of the ball.
26: R1P26
OT GERMAIN IFEDI
TEXAS A&M
56: R2P25
DT WILLIE HENRY
MICHIGAN
90: R3P27
C GRAHAM GLASGOW
MICHIGAN
98: R3P35
RB TYLER ERVIN
SAN JOSE STATE
125: R4P26
DE MATT JUDON
GRAND VALLEY
172: R5P32
OLB ERIC STRIKER
OKLAHOMA
216: R6P40
FB GLENN GRONKOWSKI
KANSAS STATE
226: R7P4
CB KEVON SEYMOUR
USC
248: R7P26
OT TYLER JOHNSTONE
OREGON
Assuming they don’t trade up in R2, they get Ifedi at 26, keep both their R3s, take Willie Henry at 56, who’s seems to be gaining some traction, and apparently isn’t lacking in confidence or brash (something that could fit in well in on the D). Henry’s upside could be his pass rush, and that’s what they need inside. Glascow gives them another physical versatile presence on the OL. Ervin is the new offensive toy.
If Judon is still sitting there in R4, you’d have to think they would jump all over that. Ditto for Striker in 5. I think they chatted with Gronkowski at the combine. R7 they keep it in the PAC 12 with both picks, adding CB and more OL.
Youth and premium physical talent on the OL. Pass rush on the D, with Henry, Judon, and Striker. A couple toys in-between.
If the Hawks want Judon they will be lucky if he is still on.the board at 90. The will have to take him with their first 3rd round pick.
I agree. It wouldn’t shock me if they want him, that he might be their 2d round pick.
Hey Rob…. how can a guy like Noah Spence or any other prospect have so much decided by these 40 yard dashes. It’s not like they are running the 40 for the first time ever. I play semi pro and we run 40s at least 4 times a season. Even if it’s just for individual bragging rights! Was he faster at Ohio State? Any interest in him at 26?
Personally I’d rather have an interior pass rusher if they do happen to go with defense at 26. I’d go with Sheldon Rankins or Robert Nkemdiche, because they’re both good against the run in addition to being good pass rushers.
His workout was a disappointment. He’s a good pass rusher but very one dimensional. He relies on the speed rush and then we find out he’s not an elite speed guy. Not sure he goes in R1.
Couldn’t help but notice a few things today. From a pure numbers stand point on the Sparq rating, this class seems to be very low on elite athletes( at least compared to last years draft). If you go to 3sigma athlete, the numbers for last years class at every position are superior to this year’s class from a depth point of view. With that being said, wouldn’t you think the Hawks would be more up to trade? Either up or down? To go get someone they like, maybe Darren Lee because there are only 2 first round level talents at OLB? Or trade back to the second round for Laravrn Clark and pick up another 4th rounder? Because after arguably the first 3 tackles the prospects go to a more high ceiling with room to improve type offensive tackle. Myles jack would look rad in the wolf grey
When I look at the #5-#8 OT’s coming off the board in each of the last ten drafts (the best the Hawks could hope for this year)..the thing that strikes me is the overwhelming number of failures. I’d guess, at most, one in ten of those picks end up developing into a mainstay of their teams OL’s. Not sure how that compares to other positions..but it seems to me hoping to find the long-term LT answer this year at #26 is a long shot.
We can’t look to history to judge this class though. History says it’s impossible for the number of 2014 receivers to be brilliant immediately — and yet it happened. Every prospect is unrelated.
Tyler Ervin would be a great pick. I think the combination of Rawls, Michael and Ervin would be nasty. Each guy brings a different element/wrinkle…
I also like the idea of signing Karlos Dansby. I think he could potentially fit into our scheme and produce in pass coverage situations. Our LB corps will need an injection with the departure of Irvin and I think Dansby could be the guy to stopgap for a year or 2.
Ervin does look very explosive. CHawk Talker Eric pointed out the other day his comp. to Harvin (and let’s hope only athletically…).
Harvin – 5’11” 192, 4.41/2.60/1.59 40yd, 37.5″ VJ, 121″ BJ, 20 BP
Ervin – 5’10” 192, 4.41/2.59.1.56 40yd, 39.0″ VJ, 130″ BJ, 17 BP
Seems to catch well the few balls thrown to him on tape. I also liked his highlights video, especially if we want to look above all at what he CAN do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RlXWsxLPGs
That said, I finally got around to watching some Ricardo Louis (mentioned by many on this blog) and was surprised to see how effective he was at… jet sweeps. Check out the plays at 0:25 and 0:32 to see what I mean:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuZCnRvmUIw
He is only .02 second slower than Ervin and shares great vision/elusiveness. If we are looking for more of a WR role than a 3rd down back, Louis provides something different than Doug/Tyler/Ervin size-wise and should be available at or even later than R3.
Harvin – 5’11” 192, 4.41/2.60/1.59 40yd, 37.5″ VJ, 121″ BJ, 20 BP (no agility drills)
Ervin – 5’10” 192, 4.41/2.59.1.56 40yd, 39.0″ VJ, 130″ BJ, 17 BP (no agility drills)
Louis – 6’2″ 215, 4.43 40yd,…………….. 38.0″ VJ, 132″ BJ, 18 BP
One wouldn’t think of jet sweeps with a guy at his size, but perhaps his athleticism at that size that can be a unique asset to create mismatches because he would need to be covered by a bigger CB. If a LB tries to pick him up on a sweep, Louis will likely outrun him. If a smaller CB picks him up, Louis can win the jump ball.
We are lucky his pro day workout is available on YouTube. I, for one, am very impressed not only with athleticism but also with ball skills: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSntkw82PR4
In conclusion, I see more value in Louis in R3-4 and an RB like Darius Jackson in R6-7 than Ervin in R3. (though I certainly won’t be complaining if we do draft him!)
I know Irvin is rising a bit, but what round grade is he now? I like the guy too but 3rd seems pretty high.
When I hear Ervin in round three I just think of Pittsburg spending a third on Dri Archer in 2014. Didn’t work out to well for them. Very similar players.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think Archer was more of a speedy guy and not much else. I just remember him returning kicks and never even being used on offense.
Drafted him as a running back/kick returner. Had 10 carries and 7 catches ion 12 games for 2014. Didn’t see the field in 2015 and was waived after 8 games. Returns kicks for the jets now. Very similar, slight body frames. I hear talk of using him in the same fashion that Pittsburg wanted to use Archer on offense. Drafted him in the third and waived the next year? A complete bust.
If we needed a return specialist I would say spend a 3rd on him. As it is I wouldn’t take him til the 5th round. I would also prefer a more physical style runner. “More physical in the trenches” “be the bully again” doesn’t happen with Ervin.
Good post, Sea Mode!
Thanks for all that info – well-presented.
Ricardo Louis might be a CB. He worked out as one during Auburn’s pro day.
He would be quite an imposing figure at corner.
Can see this Ervin pick as a resurrection of the “Jet Sweep” and “Bubble Screens” we sorely missed from not having Harvin.
I wondered why last season they didn’t use Lockett for it could have been deadly you don’t want to try and get him in space
Those plays weren’t effective after the first year. Defenses adjusted. My biggest criticism of PC and Percy Harvin is that they never used Harvin as a downfield receiver. It was always a catch behind the line of scrimmage.
I like the idea of someone who can contribute as a rb/special teams/in the slot. This as a whole makes him more valuable because he can be on the field and contribute more than someone who is just a receiving rb. Plus it allows us to have another weapon for kick returns and spell Lockett so he can expand his receiving duties.
Here is a mock that poses an interesting question Rob:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/25524882/nfl-mock-draft-giants-make-jack-conklin-the-third-tackle-in-top-10
Rob Rang has us picking Whitehair at 26. The interesting part is that the following players are not taken in the first round: Dekker, Ifedi, Coleman, Clark, Spriggs. (Concklin is 10th and Kelly is gone before we pick…)
Assuming we do want to get one of those guys and all are available when we pick, do we take the best candidate, trade back into the late 30s knowing we will still get our man or pick another position and hope we can get our guy at 56 or close to it(a 4th/5th rounder trade up)?
Something else that doesn’t get talked about on here that should and that’s trading back. Everyone seems to think you can trade back whenever you want. There has to be someone willing to trade up. It always sounds like a great idea but you can’t just snap your fingers and trade back. I’m not picking on you Eran but this is something that needs to be considered.
There are a couple possible trade-up scenarios if someone wants to get a QB or perhaps Henry. The 5th-year option is particularly important for a QB.
You’re absolutely right, Greg. Also: fans (of all teams) have a habit of creating scenarios, whether the discussion is draft picking order or trading players, where their own favorite team almost always makes out like bandits, and the other teams’ front offices are just dummies hahaha!
I wonder if sometimes we do the opposite on this blog. We tend to evaluate players we like a round or two higher than others so that all our favorites end up being 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounders.
But, that is just psychology. We all have a natural bias to assume that others see what we see and evaluate similarly. The fact is that all 32 teams do not evaluate players the same way that Seattle does. Not everyone has a run-first offense, not everyone has a zone-blocking system, not everyone has a young franchise QB, not everyone has the coaching talent to develop pro-bowl defensive backs or starting offensive linemen from Day 3 picks.
You’re absolutely right, Steve. The Seahawks are a very unique team and organization. I was just making a generalization about fans (across all sports). They want to trade their washed-up older overpaid players in exchange for your younger, hungrier, healthier, cheaper ones! I hear that all the time on sports radio talk shows.
The BEST is when they think that by throwing in more of their players into the deal, that they are sweetening the deal for you. They are clearly just getting rid of their high-salary underperforming players! Crazy.
This Ervin kid is electric….. period! I’ll take that!
Do we “need” a LG or RT?
The contract they signed Webb to is starter money. And Britt is a 2nd-round pick, on his rookie deal with 2 years of starter experience. Both fit the LG/RT mold for Seattle. I personally prefer Webb at LG and Britt back at RT although I don’t think of either as above-average NFL players. In fact, I think that they both need to work quite a bit to get up to average. They are capable run blockers.
I have been very outspoken on the need to replace Britt. But, Seattle never replaced Carpenter at LG after he flamed out at RT even though fans were clamoring to replace him his entire career. You have to consider whether they do the same with Britt.
The debate this year about Ifedi is starting to remind me about the debate around Bitonio a couple years ago. Seattle clearly needed an offensive tackle then even more than they do now and yet they didn’t pick one in the first round. Like Ifedi, Bitonio was a potential pro-bowl OG.
I think it is very likely that Seattle already feels they have the replacement right guard in Glowinski and the needed competition at center in Sokoli.
They might do nothing more in this draft than add someone like Conner McGovern in the 3rd for competition and add another project on Day 3. I love the idea of McGovern’s strength matched against DTs like Aaron Donald but Webb-Sokoli-Glowinski already checks all the boxes for Seattle’s historical preferences in the interior O-Line positions.
They could add a DE, LB, OW and DT in rounds 1-3 if they leave the O-line to Day 3.
Britt is a busted flush I think. Hasn’t worked at two spots now.
They won’t leave OL to day three this year. I’m led to believe they see a drop off on OL after the third round. Expect two OL picks among the first four.
One of Decker/Ifedi/Spriggs/Coleman, and then one of Dahl/Glasgow/McGovern would make me happy.
That is the same way we felt about Carpenter after his first two seasons. But, he remained a starter throughout his rookie deal. I have not heard a single Seattle coach call Britt a bust.
Seattle coaches tend not to say much negative about their players but you can usually hear talk about where they need to improve if the coaches are unhappy with a player’s development.
They’re not likely to call him a bust though are they?
When Carroll was asked about Britt remaining at LG he basically said, ‘we’ll see’. It’s about as negative an endorsement as Carroll ever offers. No praise, even middling.
Carpenter and Britt are very different too. Carp started at RT then suffered an ACL injury. When he recovered they moved him to guard. He had conditioning issues before settling in as the clear starter. Britt hasn’t had injuries — he’s just played badly. Far worse than Carp.
I am not a supporter of Britt’s play. I had Ifedi and McGovern in my mock draft, plus Nembot late as a project. But, I am thinking aloud as to whether my poor opinion of Britt is shared by the FO and whether it is skewing my analysis of draft needs.
I took the “we’ll see” comment by Carroll as more of a sign they were thinking of moving Britt back to right tackle. In retrospect, it might have been a signal that the team was already planning on moving Gilliam to left tackle and letting Okung leave.
I think something has to happen with Britt this year. Either he “gets it” and greatly improves his play, or he’s not on the roster in Week 1.
I am not in favor of adding another project simply because it is unlikely we could keep him. We already have a project we need to keep on our roster in Sokoli. Add a guy like Nembot or God-forbid Le’Raven Clark, and we are jamming up two roster spots with project linemen. And those guys will never make it to the practice squad.
I am thinking of a project for the practice squad. Someone like Poole last year. I see some of the same potential in Nembot that there was in Gilliam. But, there are a number of other athletic late-round types that could work just as well.
Lol @ busted flush.
In 2014 “Seattle clearly needed an offensive tackle then even more than they do now”
How so? The year before SEA took 2 OTs in the 2013 draft – Bowie and Bailey (UDFA).
Both were on the roster in 2014, in addition to Okung, for a total of 3. SEA have 3 OTs on roster right now. I’d say the need is about the same, or worse this year since 2 of the 3 OTs currently on roster have never played a down for SEA.
Also, don’t you think they learned a lesson in 2014? They really needed an OT, but went WR first, forcing them to reach for Britt. I can’t imagine them making the same mistake twice.
Just because you try something and it doesn’t work, doesn’t mean it was a “mistake.” If you swing for the fences, like Seattle does, a certain amount of “failure” is inevitable. It is part of the price of that strategy. It doesn’t mean you change the strategy. Sometimes you strike out twice or three times before you hit the home run.
For instance, I think we would all consider the Percy Harvin trade a “failure.” But, that did not prevent Seattle from taking the same approach with a trade for Jimmy Graham.
In hindsight, the Richardson/Britt draft was a “mistake” due to Richardson’s poor performance. If Richardson had performed like Lockett, we might be citing this as another example of JS genius.
Agree Steve – I think there’s also an element of personal responsibility that is just out of the Hawks’ control. Bowie and Bailey should still be in the OL mix for the Hawks but both found their way out of town for reasons that are more on them than the Hawks. Also Garret Scott was just an unfortunate situation (but relatively speaking good for him).
I have been thinking since Rob’s post on interior OL the other day about an approach that I think might suit the Hawks: spend R1 and R2 on defense, then both R3 picks on interior OL. I am becoming more and more convinced that this strategy will yield better value for the Hawks in the draft.
It has already been pointed out by Rob that the interior is probably more important to upgrade than the tackles for us right now. Cable just needs good, gritty athletes for his ZBS, not finished products with polished technique (which in his own words no longer exist anyway in college football). We can get these kind of athletes in R3 without needing to use higher picks. We knew we had needs on the interior OL last year and still waited until R4, so there is precedent.
So maybe the draft looks something like:
R1- Neal/Ogbah (impact defensive player)
R2- Bullard/Washington (penetrating DT)
R3/R3 Comp- McGovern/Westerman/Glasgow/Dahl, etc. (these two picks are close enough together they should allow to play the board well and get versatile players to compete at both C and LG)
R4- LB Travis Feeney (or a shot at Jaylon Smith if he’s still there…)
R5- WR Ricardo Louis
R6- DT Justin Zimmer
R7- RB Darius Jackson
UDFA- QB Keenan Reynolds
And the OL competition could look something like:
LT LG C RG RT
Gilliam – McGovern/Britt/Webb/Poole – Glasgow/Lewis/Sokoli – Glowinski – Webb/Britt
“It has already been pointed out by Rob that the interior is probably more important to upgrade than the tackles for us right now.”
This doesn’t mean that SEA don’t need to upgrade the OT position. They have 3 OTs on roster (one of which, Webb, is an OT/OG tweener). The other is a career back up. The third is an UDFA who had a decent first season.
Repeat – SEA need to upgrade the OT position. This draft is set up so that they can get quality interior OL help on Day 2 and later. It is not set up for them to get quality OT help outside of #26.
In 2014 SEA needed an OT but went another way early, forcing them to reach for Britt. It didn’t work. Do you really think they’re so full of themselves or immune to learning from their mistakes that they’ll do the same thing again???
Ok, but then why did they shell out for Webb (and list him as a tackle) if they are so set on going OT in R1?
We got to the SB with Britt at RT and a solid interior. We didn’t make it last season, and it wasn’t because of our UDFA RT.
If we can get by with a UDFA in his first year at the position, I think we can probably make do with less than a 1st rounder this year at RT. (Webb, Britt, Poole, Sowell, whatever)
“I think we can probably make do with less than a 1st rounder this year at RT.”
You mean at RT and LG. If SEA don’t take an OT prospect at 26 (who would probably start at LG), they’ll be fielding an OL with Webb at RT and Britt at LG.
“why did they shell out for Webb (and list him as a tackle) if they are so set on going OT in R1”
Did they shell out for Webb? Of all the “starter” FA OT signings around the League, Webb was probably the cheapest.
Also, they lost 2 OTs – Okung and Bailey. They NEED to replace them. Webb is primarily stop gap insurance against that. Anything he can do beyond that is a boon.
Eric: first of all, thanks for the discussion!
“…they’ll be fielding an OL with Webb at RT and Britt at LG.”
Sorry if I didn’t make it clear. I am proposing a R3 pick at LG (not Britt!), and getting by with the better of Webb/Britt at RT. Whoever loses that battle at RT replaces Bailey as swing tackle.
Okung I think is replaced by Gilliam. I’m convinced this has been the plan all along.
Thank you Sea Mode!
I understand what you’re proposing, but remember Britt was a R2 pick who most likely would’ve gone in R3 if SEA hadn’t reached for him. He’s also not a rookie. And he struggled mightily at LG last year.
That’s not to say a different R3 LG prospect taken in a different draft will be just as bad, but it’s something to consider – any Day 2 or later OL prospect is likely to need a redshirt season before he can contribute meaningfully. He would primarily provide competition for Britt at LG rather than be THE guy out of the gate. Think Glowinski.
The best bet IMO is a tackle who can kick inside and play LG — competing with Webb for the RT and LG spots.
That way you get depth and competition at two positions.
Agreed, but are there any of those in R3 or does that pretty much limit us to R1?
When you consider that SEA have used almost exclusively big maulers at LG, there are really only 2 or 3 prospects in the draft who were college OTs but could provide depth and competition at LG as well – Ifedi, Coleman and Clark. Guys like Whitehair and McGovern just aren’t big enough for what SEA have traditionally tried at LG. Doesn’t mean they wouldn’t consider one of those other guys. But precedent doesn’t favor that result.
If someone can beat Webb out for right tackle, Webb is our ideal LG size-wise. So the Seahawks might not look to draft an LG but an RT.
That’s why someone like Ifedi or Coleman would make a good R1 pick – competition at RT and LG, and let the chips fall where they may. It’s possible Ifedi wins the RT spot out of TC and Webb moves to LG.
I mean day 1 competition. There are some additional prospects SEA could look to in the later rounds/UDFA as project picks.
Might be more beneficial than to just take Coleman (as he will likely be there at 26). He is the more natural tackle, I feel, and you may even be able to trade back and take him.
DAL just signed Alfred Morris.
@RapSheet: The #Cowboys signed RB Alfred Morris to a 2-year worth $3.5M base, source said, with a chance to earn up to $5.5M.
Good signing for both the Cowboys and for Morris. He’s got to be relieved to close the whole RG3 chapter of his career.
@AdamSchefter: Ravens’ HC John Harbaugh says he has been exchanging texts with RB Trent Richardson and plans to sign him.
D’ohh!
@Ravens: John Harbaugh: “I’m planning on Trent [Richardson] being a Raven right now.”
More: https://t.co/54SrFcSziT https://t.co/h82t97CUbW
Good luck with that. The first thing Trent Richardson has to do if he has any plans to being a good player again is to get in top shape. I say “again” because, believe it or not, he was a pretty good player in his rookie year. But I think he gained weight and lost agility (and confidence).
@TomPelissero: Among players at Florida pro day: Jacksonville U WR Andy Jones, who also did DB drills, jumped 40.5 inches, 10-7 broad, 4.53 40 at 6-1, 211.
Iowa pro day:
WR Tevaun Smith ran 40 times ranging between 4.33 and 4.40. Measuring 6’3″, 205lbs, he posted a 38″ VJ, 122″ BJ, 3.94 SS, and 6.56 3C. Smith caught the ball well in drills.
I dunno, pro day workout results are like snake oil, I’d have to take a closer look to see if he’s someone to get excited about. If his combine results, and more importantly, his TAPE is anywhere near as impressive as his pro day, Pete and John should definitely take a look.
I actually think that Seattle puts a tremendous amount of stock into pro days.
I bet more so than the Combine.
@AdamSchefter: Competition Committee made all chop blocks illegal.
That is a big rule change for the Hawks / Cable and the ZBS system he teaches.
not really. The Seahawks backside cut block, not chop block. This is along the lines of the elevated awareness on pass interference and defensive holding for the refs following the 2013 season. The Hawks weren’t affected by it at all. Same with chop blocks. The refs will be looking for it at Seattle games but the chop block has always been illegal and the Hawks don’t do that.
Alex McAlister put up a 36″ VJ at 6’6″ 245lbs (84″ wingspan).
Vernon Butler put up a 33.5″ VJ at 6’4″ 323lbs.
McCalister is a good pass rusher. A good mid-round option.
@PFF_Steve: Florida Edge Alex McCalister beat OT to the outside once every 11.4 rushes (7th in class).
Won to inside once every 183 rushes (108th)
Cool metric:
PFF_College: Best pass rush productivity in less than 2.6 seconds (Edge rushers):
Joe Schobert
Carl Nassib
Leonard Floyd
Kyler Fackrell
Emmanuel Ogbah
That’s a cool list of edge rushers. We’d likely have to spend our first rounder to get Ogbah or Floyd-I’m of the mind that OL is too big of a need not to go OL first, could be wrong. Fackrell and Nassib could last to us in day 2.
This too:
PFF College
@PFF_College
Best pass rush productivity in less than 2.6 seconds (among DTs):
Chris Jones, Miss State
Sheldon Day, Notre Dame
Willie Henry, Michigan
If Hargrave played at the top level I’d bet he’d be the 4th name of this list. All 4 of these DT’s flash instant penetration consistently. Day, Henry and Hargrave all posses the high motor and activity I like to see. Jones is an impressive athlete, but is more of a boom or bust player-lacks activity. It’s very likely that we could draft any one of Day, Henry or Hargrave at #56 or a trade up in round 3 could land one. Waiting until the our 2 late 3rd round picks to get interior pass rush help is sketchy, but one could fall to us.
@JennaLaineBucs: S @Keanu_Neal said he had 26 formal interviews at the combine. Blew his mind that so many wanted to talk to him
Pauline:
“I’ve been told for the past week Neal is still in the conversation as the first-round pick for the Pittsburgh Steelers, who had defensive back coach Carnell Lake on hand today. The Atlanta Falcons recently sent their head coach and position coaches to work out Neal.”
Oh man, jumping ahead of the Steelers (trade w/Redskins at #21) might not even be enough to get him then!
I could easily see McCloughan taking him for the Redskins as well. He looks for killer instincts.
Neal’s a stud
He is going to end up being a steal at the end of Rd #1. A team like the Falcons who need a tougher identity should run to the podium. I just hope someone takes him before the Cardinals. The thought of him and the honey badger is like a young Earl and Kam.
Still hope he might be in play for us but we have far bigger needs so likely not.
Neal is going to change a team’s defense drastically. This guy is going to be a crusher
Rob…I know you get a bunch of these hypotheticals, but I wanted to get your input on this draft idea:
Trade 26 for 40 and get a 4th in return (potentially more).
40 – DE Ogbah
56 – C McGovern
Trade Up – LG Josh Garnett (using 3rd and 4th)
R3: DT Willie Henry
Seems reasonable. Not a sexy draft but that could really provide good upside/insurance moving forward. Obviously this assumes that Gilliam is at LT and Webb at RT. Thoughts?
I’m not sure Ogbah lasts until #40 — or Henry to the late third.
Trading out of the second to get Henry could work – pick up a late draft pick or two in the process.
I don’t like passing on a Tackle (to play guard or provide future tackle ability), for the hope that Ogbah is sitting there at 40. What if he’s not? Why not draft the tackle at 26, then consider a trade up in the 2nd if ogbah is in range?
This really was a hypothetical. I wouldn’t take what I said at the exact trade value. I’m more highlighting a different approach than taking OL at 26.
That said, I agree with what you are saying. I was simply trying to mix up the convo a little bit.
I doubt Ogbah makes it to #26.
You know I just not sure McGovern will be at pick 56. It feels so much like last year when Mitch Morse went at 49. This is a guy I this Seattle has targeted and they don’t want him to get away. If he can become a center that would really help us going forward. If he can’t do center then I bet he take Britts job at LG. So trading down into top of the 2nd could be very helpful. We could do what Seattle does and just take McGovern at 26 and at 56 a Deon Jones who I think Seattle would know how to use in there defense. Theres my 2 spots filled. Trade the pick I got and my 3rd and move up for Austin Johnson. Just a thought
Good point and I am inclined to agree with you about McGovern. Seems very Morse-like.
Don’t even know if Ogbah even last to 26. Pass rushing defensive ends are high in demand.
@pgabriel15: I counted 10 NFL teams for sure at Montana State’s pro day: Texans, Pats, Giants, Jets, Saints, Seahawks, Panthers, Raiders, Colts, Broncos.
@collinbroberts: Nice work by John Weidenaar, OT, @MSUBobcatsFB at his pro day! 5.14 40, 7.28 3-cone, 4.55 shuttle, 22 reps, 29″ vert, 9’2 broad.
For the first time ever pc/js are looking at smaller rbs, have they know the chop block rule change has been coming and planning to redo there oline and change the type of rb they bring in to accommodate the rule change? Are we seeing an offensive identify switch in the early stages?
I think it’s just the component of the backfield they are missing. They have their lead back in Rawls. They have his backup in C-Mike. Now they need the third-down receiver-hybrid runner.
They completely avoided this type of back since Leon left and haven’t even looked at scat back since. There’s been reports of multiple smaller backs interviewing with the hawks
Maybe Robert Turbin wasn’t a conventional “scat back” but he was being coached to do a lot of what scat backs do – catching passes out of the backfield and being a pure speed runner. I think he counts as someone that falls under that archetype. They didn’t draft any scat backs in that time period because they liked what Turbin did in that role for a time.
Oh and he needs to block too.
Rob, how would you feel about Kenyan Drake compared to Ervin for the 3rd down back spot?
Schneider sez:
Kam ain’t going nowhere
If season started today GG and BS would compete for LT
MikeMo and Marsh will compete for SAM
Clark will replace Irvin on passing downs
Glow gets the start at RG
Purely speculative day dreaming: What if Bradley Sowell is our new Breno Giacomini? #TurnOverEveryRock #IHashtagEverything
@bcondotta: Schneider on making more moves on offensive line: “Where we are at right now (cap wise) we just have to be very responsible.”
Hey, stranger things have happened.
Mark Glowinski starting RG it firmly imprinted on my mind. I truly believe that he will be the RG starting at the beginning of the season
This means we need a sam backer bad
How so
Really? I’d say that it is far from a pressing need.
Not a big need at all.
It’ll be between Mike Mo, Cash, Pink, Shirley, a rookie, or Dansby (if they sign him).
They do need another pass rusher, but I think the go after an outside/inside D-lineman like Bennett.
Wouldn’t surprise me at all if Seattle doesn’t take a LB before round 4 or 5. It’ll probably end up being one of these athletic ‘backers emerging from the pro days.
As Rob pointed out previously, SEA used MikeMo (and Malcolm Smith) instead of Irvin at various times in the past few seasons. Plus I think they’re pleased with how Marsh is developing.
Interesting no mention of KPL.
I think he could definetly be in the mix, but he fits better as a WILL.
Personally, I’m a big fan of Cash Marsh.
Move KJ Wright to SAM, sign Dansby to be the WILL.
Thoughts?
Other way around.
The SAM comes off the field on 3rd downs. KJ is a true 3 down LB.
What about taking Florida DL Jonathan Bullard in the 1st round?
I mean… Isn’t he rather limited as a player?
What do you mean by limited?
Relies more on timing than actual pass rushing ability?
That video clip showed Ervin running well inside, but that could be the result of a good o line against a average d line. Unfortunatley we don’t have a good o line.
After hearing what Pete said earlier, it sounds like an DL with the first pick.
Then draft McGovern and Rees Odhiambo for depth at C/G/T behind Glowinski (RG) GG (LT), Britt (LG), Poole (backup RT), Soko (C), Sowell (backup LT) Webb (RT/backup LT).
I don’t think we can decipher anything from what Carroll said today.
He just spoke positively about guys who will be on the team next year. Which is expected.