Monday notes: Thoughts on Seattle’s offense

September 11th, 2017 | Written by Rob Staton

Defenses are not showing the Seahawks much respect

In previous years, opponents would spend hours worrying about how to deal with Marshawn Lynch’s punishing running style. Russell Wilson’s mobility and improvisational skills were the perfect compliment. Lynch set the tone.

Without Lynch, teams are not as concerned. Where they once had to sell out to limit Beast Mode, they’re now selling out to completely shut down the running game.

We’ve seen over the years how Seattle’s defense has dominated opponents by taking away the run. It’s their modus operandi. Many high-flying offenses became dimensional and impotent.

Now the Seahawks are getting a taste of their own medicine.

It’s easy to point at the O-line and demand they do a better job at run blocking. They must do better. No argument there. But when you’re facing eight or nine men in the box consistently, it’s very difficult to run the ball. Is that on the line, or is it up to the Seahawks’ brain trust of Carroll, Bevell and Cable to find a counter-punch? A blitz-buster or plan that will force opponents to drop men back into coverage and create more favourable running opportunities?

It’s strange that in seven years of the Carroll era, the Seahawks have never been a particularly good screen-team. They haven’t really had a wrinkle to combat pressure. The Rams and Cardinals have often smothered Seattle’s O-line. Dom Capers’ Green Bay unit appear to have Seattle’s number too. They’ve consistently struggled in those match-ups.

It’s why New England’s approach in the regular season last year was so bizarre. They rushed only three or four and dropped bodies into coverage, giving Seattle the time and freedom to do what they wanted. The result was a consistent accumulation of points.

Other teams are not as forgiving.

Do they have the personnel to play the way they want to?

We know the Seahawks want to run the ball and be physical. We know they went away from that last year. Is it even viable at this point though?

If teams are attacking that O-line and selling out to stop the run — continuing to try and run the ball wouldn’t be a wise idea. You don’t want other teams to dictate the way you play but equally you don’t want many games like the one yesterday.

It was OK with Lynch in the backfield. A 20-carry, 60-yard performance from Lynch was sometimes enough to get the Seahawks what they needed. It wore down the defense. Teams were keying on stopping Lynch for four quarters and it took a toll.

One man was able to take it to an entire defense.

Now those 20-carry, 60-yard performances aren’t having the same impact and strain on an opponent.

It’s possible that this version of the Seahawks needs the pass to set up the run. Not every week of course. Some teams, such as upcoming home opponents San Francisco and Indianapolis, could be overmatched. But in the big games against the proper teams in the NFC, there might need to be some flexibility and adaptability.

Isn’t it more fun though just to hammer Tom Cable?

Possibly for some. After a game like that, it’s natural to look for a scapegoat. Coordinators are an easy target. They’re seen as replaceable and a trendy alternative for criticism when the Head Coach is popular.

Two quick points.

Seattle’s starting line in 2013 (Okung, Carpenter, Unger, Sweezy, Giacomini) all remain in the league. All five have been allowed to walk or they’ve been traded. There aren’t many O-line coaches tasked with rebuilding an entire line. For all we know, Cable would’ve retained the lot.

Hereโ€™s a breakdown of the Pro-Bowl offensive linemen drafted after the first round during the Pete Carroll years (2010-17):

2010: 0
2011: 2 (Rodney Hudson, Jason Kelce)
2012: 1 (Kelechi Osemele)
2013: 1 (David Bakhtiari)
2014: 1 (Trai Turner)
2015: 0
2016: 0

Those are the names Seattle ‘passed’ on (along with the other 30 teams who equally didn’t draft them). There isn’t this long list of failed assessments by Cable and John Schneider.

Neither have they really had much chance to use free agency. Could they have paid an O-liner instead of inheriting Jimmy Graham’s salary? Possibly. Not many people were complaining about Graham’s acquisition at the time though.

The O-line needs to improve immediately. This isn’t good enough:

Perspective is still an important tool at a time like this though, when reactions are rife and emotions high.

The starting left tackle is on injured reserve, Odhiambo and Joeckel haven’t played together before. Growing pains, sadly, are not particularly surprising.

Seattle’s offense might be struggling with the ‘too many cooks’ angle. Pete Carroll, Darrell Bevell and Tom Cable all have a say it seems. All have very different backgrounds and ideas. It also makes apportioning blame a difficult thing to do as a fan and observer.

So what now?

The reassuring thing is there’s plenty of evidence that a great defense >>>>> great O-line. Denver won a Super Bowl the year before last with an elite pass rush and secondary. On offense they had an average running game, an ineffective ageing quarterback and a bad offensive line. The Seahawks possess a much better offense than the Super Bowl winning Broncos and the evidence on Sunday is that the defense is absolutely legit.

Denver found a way to make their offense do just enough. The Seahawks, at a minimum, have to do the same. What they showed on Sunday was below the necessary mark.

I’ll have some thoughts on week two of the college football season on the blog on Tuesday or Wednesday.

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162 Responses to “Monday notes: Thoughts on Seattle’s offense”

  1. Nick says:

    Great perspective from Rob once again. The only thing I’d add is that the O must move to a quicker offense. I don’t know how much more tape the Seahawks need to see in order to recognize their offense works better when they move up tempo. Yesterday’s pace was sluggish, Wilson was regularly running the play clock down to zero, and as a result the Packers were able to get a rhythm going.

    • SeaHusky says:

      Even if we don’t go up-tempo more often, Bevell needs to scheme around the OL. More designed PA rollouts to move the pocket, more quick hitters, and less deep developing pass plays that take 3-4 seconds to get receivers open downfield. Russ doesn’t have 3-4 seconds; he’s lucky if he gets 2 on the rare occasion a pocket materializes. The offense needs to move the pocket and get Russ out in space if the OL can’t adequately form a pocket semi-consistently. It’s maddening to watch it be 3rd and 10+ and seeing Russ take 5-7 step drops only to get pummeled before he even finishes his dropback.

    • Overtime says:

      Don’t worry! I am told these guys will make a big improvement in their performance in year two.

      I think we can trace the falloff in the O Line performance back to the loss of Max Unger. We wasted two years trying to replace the center. Now we are wasting two more years trying to replace the LT spot Okung occupied. The $10M we are spending on Jimmy Graham would have kept these two on board. You have to have a couple dependable linemen to build around. Getting rid of everyone was a mistake. Graham has not been the “match-up nightmare” not has he produced TD’s in the Red Zone. All he really did was push a bunch of contributors off our roster.

      • glor says:

        Some QB’s will throw a receiver open (aka Drew Brees), some require them to be open (RW). Jimmy is who he has always been, send him back to the saints, and he would be a beast again.

  2. Ukhawk says:

    Alleluia, at last some positivity, constructive comments & real questions asked.

    Couldn’t agree more, the great news is that everyone appears to be healthy and in a position to steadily improve over what is a long season… it’s not how you start but how you finish & a little adversity is not necessarily a bad thing. Continuity & playing time will make this line infinitely better – bank on it!

  3. Benjamin Ft. Worth says:

    We had zero rythym on offense. Defense was like a well oiled “SUPED” up machine! Kicking game was solid an unnoticeable. Perfect! Daniels looked like the 2nd coming of Aaron Donald. Green Bay’s got some great guys on that D line. I wanted more play action and didn’t see one zone read to try and change the tempo or momentum.

  4. My biggest critique of Cable is how sloppy the OLinemens technique is. The leaning forwards/weight on their toes, the bad hand placements, the bad footwork, etc. You’re telling me for months we’ve known our OL would basically be Joeckel-Britt-Glow-Ifedi and you couldn’t have locked them in sooner as starters and gotten them to work really hard on their fundamental techniques?

    As for Bevell, I hated the game plan. Once he saw the first drive he should have removed all 5 and 7 step drops from his play-calling and put in a bunch of roll outs and pocket moving pass plays. Get Russ moving with the ball and give him some high-low concepts to throw to. Just get the ball moving downfield a bit. Don’t run when it is an obvious run with a loaded box. Don’t pass when it is an obvious pass and your OL can’t protect you as you 7 step drop.

    I am so worried because it is the foundation of this team, their identity, their play calling, their OL, the building blocks are whats broken. The fix isn’t simple, it isn’t quick and it takes big balls and honest evaluation and recognition to see, admit and change. So far our continued employment of Cable, Bevell using the same game plan over and over with basic HS principles/routes…I’m not encouraged.

    • Rob Staton says:

      The employment of the individuals isn’t worth us as a fan base obsessing over. If people think changing these two people will result in all of the problems being solved, remember that they are working Pete’s vision. This offensive partnership also helped Seattle set records in 2015, dominate in 2013 and come within that one ill-fated play of a second Super Bowl.

      There’s a ton to work on and improve — but I sincerely hope we’re not just going to be talking about firing Bevell/Cable every time the team has a stinker on offense.

      • The details that I am talking about with Cable & Bev are specifically under their purview. Such horrible, sloppy technique from our OLinemen isn’t something Pete monitors closely I imagine. That is squarely on the individual (Cable). And Pete likely plays a role in the offensive game plan but how our play-calling didn’t change into a bunch of these: https://twitter.com/guga31bb/status/907382997506252800 and roll-outs and quick pass plays (3 step drops) is mind boggling and falls squarely on Bev. What we saw the Chiefs and Cowboys do this week on offense should be part of what we do.

        This is all I can think about: https://twitter.com/mattyfbrown/status/907030695939334145

      • Joshua Smith says:

        We also very nearly beat GB in GB – and probably would have with better officiating. That’s solely because of the defense and special teams though

      • Trevor says:

        Rob coaches are employed the same as players and it is a performance based business. Coaches also have a much longer career.

        To say we are clamoring for these guys to not have jobs or a career and that it is unfair somehow seems like an an unrealistic arguement in pro sports. What about Always compete? Is that just for players?

        If a player graded out in the bottom 1/3 of the league 5 years in a row they would have been cut years ago. The NFL is a performance based business and they are paid accordingly.

        • Rob Staton says:

          The guy has been asked to replace every starter since 2013. He’s been tasked with turning Drew Nowak into a starter, a basketball player into a left tackle and a guard/tackle into a center. Nobody would argue the line played well on Sunday but we need to at least consider the hand he has been dealt.

          • Trevor says:

            Rob we have spent more draft capital on the OL lone than any team in the league the last 5 years. They let vet free agents walk because the never improved or were injury prone under Cable.

            All teams have the same draft and fee agent pool but we are the only team in the league with now 6 years of bottom 1/3 OL play.

            Vikings and Broncos were arguably the only two OL as bad as us last year. Watching them last night you could see a huge improvement against teams with good DLs. That is all most Hawks fans want from the OL is to see weekly improvement and for cohesion. We want to see guys like Rees, Ifedi and Glow show improved technique not worse than when in College.

            Anyways it is the hand /coach we are dealt this season so I won’t keep harping on it but if we waste another year with this championship level D it will be sad.

            • Rob Staton says:

              This isn’t entirely accurate Trevor. They let veteran free agents walk for a number of reasons. With Okung it was injuries and the difficulty of dealing with a player acting as his own agent. They traded Unger as part of the Graham deal, again injuries were an issue. Sweezy, Breno and Carpenter were handsomely paid on the open market, before the OL pay explosion. They had decisions to make and Kam, Earl, Wilson, Sherm, Bennett etc were more worthy of being paid than Sweezy etc.

              They’ve spent draft capital in an attempt to try and find gems. You might see that as failure that they haven’t developed five new starters as hoped, I see it as them doing everything they can to try and solve the issue. And in fairness, Britt has developed. Let’s give Ifedi year two before we judge (he did OK on Sunday). Fant was taking major strides forward before his injury.

              You’re talking about the Vikings and Broncos at home after one game. The Vikings who threw money at Reiff and Remmers, two players their previous teams released to spend money on Kalil and Wagner. Denver were table to draft Garrett Bolles. We’ll never know if Seattle would’ve pulled the trigger there.

              I wouldn’t try to argue that the line played well or that Cable deserves praise. I just don’t think it’s as simple as — OL is struggling, Cable must be to blame.

              • Trevor says:

                I agree Rob the Hawks OL has not been a simple fix but every other team finds a way.

                Pete and JS are just as much to blame for this blind faith Cable could build an OL with a bunch of high upside athletes.

                We will have to just agree to disagree on Cable. I just don’t think he knows how to evaluate or coach up OL.

                A prime example is Joeckel. We discussed him in depth last year and you were very clear you did not think he was a good fit for the Hawks. Cable thought he was one of the best LG in the league before getting hurt. So the Hawks give $8mil to a guy coming off an ACL and so far he looks like the guy Jacksonville let walk.

                • Rob Staton says:

                  Every other team doesn’t find a way Trevor. It might feel that way sometimes but I guarantee the vast majority of teams in the league are struggling with their lines. The key is to mask the issue with game plan and scheme.

                  • Barry says:

                    If you look around the league and watch less talented front 6 (o-line and QB) you will be asking yourself why we cant find any rhythm. I dont believe the issue is the line.

          • Barry says:

            Rob Cable is part of every discussion and decision that happens with that line.

            • Rob Staton says:

              Being part of every decision doesn’t mean he has final say or even agrees with what is decided.

              • michigan12 says:

                Rob you have made some very valid points, he has been dealt some tough cards, but at the same time, he is not the only one replacing players that walk. Every team has to do that. We have had an Oline issue for the last three years and it does not seem like it is getting better. I think it is entirely fair for all Seahawks fans to question whether or not Cable is capable of doing this job. If he does not have the right guys for the scheme he likes to employ, then he needs to adjust his coaching to the guys that he has and find a scheme that they can actually operate in an adequate level.
                I agree Bevel could help by adjusting his game plan going forward. I know you believe that he should be willing to adjust, because you have written about it in the past. I just hope your not being to optimistic and overlooking a perpetual problem that, at least for now, has not shown any signs of getting better.
                Plus you have highlighted some guys in the past that may not have been Pro Bowlers, but are better than what we have now. Joel Bittonio comes to mind.

                • Rob Staton says:

                  Not every team is asking their OL coach to convert basketball players though

                  • FresnoBrad says:

                    Rob it was Tom Cable who said this is the best OL he’s coached, it was Cable who said Joekel was the best LG in the NFL in 2016. If Cable stopped putting his foot in his mouth things would be different, I’ve always been a supporter of Cable including the acquisition of Tobin but after week 1 & an entire summer to prepare my gut tells me this year is different, right now I can’t picture our OL holding up in the playoffs. Tom Cable told us our OL was doing real good in camp, I’m sick & tired of all the BS including Michael Bennett promoting racism lies, criminal organizations like Black Lives matter & Antifa. Oh ya the 2 Mexican cops who arrested him in Vegas were racist. Colin Kapernick why doesn’t everyone blame the Niners it’s not the other 31 teams who cut him.

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    I don’t really get wound up by things Cable has said in the past. It’s part of a coaches job to install confidence. Speaking positively and backing his group to the media is as much about supporting the players as anything. People can use that as a stick to beat him with if they want but it’s not something I’d pay attention to. Ditto when Carroll used to praise player like McCray and Terrell at safety.

                    I don’t know how you lurched from Cable to the political stuff — but I will remind people that this isn’t a politics forum and I’m pretty sure most of the people who visit this blog regularly aren’t interested in a discussion about the pro’s and con’s of Antifa and BLM.

  5. Thy Hawk is Howling says:

    I’m not a fan of Cable, I’m more of a Netflix guy myself. You lucky UK Netflix people get to watch StarTrek Discovery Soon!

    A part of me feels that Tom Cable just needs to punch somebody in the face ( think he’s having withdrawals) and our OL problems will be remedied. Or I read Walter Jones is actually interested in the job? I know it will get better, IT Has Too! Ahhh

    I wish Russell Wilson was the Offensive Coordinator! How about we give Darrell Bevel a couple weeks of paid leave and see how we function!?

    Go Touchdowns
    Go Hawks

  6. peter says:

    ron excellent piece. I’ll see you an end to Cable bashing but all raise you something wrong with scouting and when you’ve brought up okung, carp, etc, I think perhaps that era and those drafts plus scouting for FA’s like breno had more to do with help from say Scott mcCloughan? He was an exec for for of those players and Unger was already on the team.

    I know seattle has paid for a top flight defense and the defense played a he’ll of a game yesterday but Seattle’s online isn’t even league average at this point. I’m not saying look to probowlers but when I see guys like Glowinski and ifedi, I see guys that should be blowing people off the line at least in the run game. Detroit last year was the last time I saw something like that in a long time.

    I’ve got no complaints with cable and only one with Bevell which is he takes forever to adjust. overall I think seattle will be fine but I do think letting Carson get 18 touches is the way to go. how any if the running backs are going to get a feel for a game with five touches each is beyond me.

  7. C-Dog says:

    Wasn’t it kinda leaked by one of the running back during a preseason interview that Seattle wants to lead the league throwing to backs out of the backfield this year?

    I believe so. It’s interesting that on the first offensive attempt, it looked like Russ was trying to dumb off an easy pass but Perry was all over him in a heartbeat.

    That’s a good reminder about just how new Odhiambo and Joekel are working together. My biggest is with the line has never been Tom Cable, it’s the fact Tom Cable has had to reassemble 2/5s to 4/5s of the OL since 2014, and do so with some players that were, at times, incredibly raw to be throwing into the fire. IMO, that’s not the OL coach. That the organization deciding not to keep the cohesion of the line together.

    If there is anything that I fault in the coaching it’s having guys start at one position and then move him the next year to another, not really getting a chance to master one.

    • MSL says:

      The constant shuffling of lineman isn’t Cable’s fault? The guy who seems to want versatility over anything else? Maybe versatile lineman aren’t good lineman. Maybe they need to do a better job at identifying and obtaining a LT, then a LG, then a RG, and then a RT instead of just finding “versatile lineman.” Maybe they wouldn’t need to shuffle the line every year if Cable got guys in the right spot to begin with.

      And here we go again. We’ll be back to shuffling everyone again next year. There is CLEARLY a breakdown in the evaluation and coaching of lineman. Exactly who it is I don’t know, but Pete should know and he should not be ok with it. He’s loyal to a fault. Fire the problem and move on. We’re well on our way to throwing away the 3rd season in a row and wasting another year of an elite defense and franchise QB.

    • Brett says:

      I don’t get this “first time working together” excuse when Odi and Joek BOTH get destroyed by the guy lining right in front of them? There was no communication issue, just a complete ass whoopin.

  8. Thy Hawk is Howling says:

    Good points C-Dog about the ever revolving door on O-line. We didn’t keep anybody until this Britt extension it’s just been frustrating! I know the Zone scheme of blocking is alot more complicated but it’s supposed to be superior when mastered? I don’t know much about that , but sometimes it’s like just play man vs man blocking and put out Nick Vannett the supposed best TE blocker from last year’s draft to help or something when it goes
    Like it went yesterday!

    • C-Dog says:

      When the Denver Broncos were winning Super Bowls in the 1990s and running that scheme with success, I don’t think they had the most talented players on an individual level but they were athletic enough and smart enough and they had together long enough for it to work like gang busters. If Seattle wants to pay more of its top talent on the defense, I am all for it, but if it is coming at the expense of not keeping the core of the line together, I think it is fair to question whether they should employ a scheme that takes so long to master, and ideally you want these guys playing together for a long period of time.

  9. Misfit74 says:

    What frustrated me the most was win the Packers rushed only three or four and we had Max protection on we have so few receivers running routes and so many Defenders covering those receivers it was impossible to complete passes and sometimes the rush still got home!

  10. Misfit74 says:

    I think we need a heavy dose of Prosise and Carson, an up-tempo offense, and passing to get leads. Run if we can. Run to grind out teams. We flourish in 2 minute drills and hurry-up situations.

  11. SeaHusky says:

    Thanks for the great writeup Rob. It’s always nice to come here for some perspective after a difficult game.

    Here’s my thoughts. Our anemic offense doesn’t just fall on Bevell/Cable; it also falls on Pete’s overall offensive philosophy. He has always wanted a run-first, TOP dominating offense that punishes teams over the course of the game. That worked great when we had a generational talent in Lynch and an OL that, while still bad in pass protection, could at least open up holes for the run game on a semi-consistent basis. Like you said, combine that with Russ’ mobility and ability to improvise, and we have a potent combination. This type of offense also helps the defense, as the offense can dominate TOP and keep opposing explosive offenses off the field. I understand the rationale behind Carroll’s philosophy and why he doesn’t want to deviate from it.

    My concern is that Carroll and Co. have been chasing the ghost of that type of offense for years now. Lynch is gone, that 2013 OL that could open up holes in the run game is gone, and our best option going forward at RB is seemingly an undrafted, unproven (albeit very promising) rookie in Carson. Out of the three main components to a ground and pound offense (imo)–a bellcow RB, an OL that can consistently open up holes, and a defense that can keep the opposing offense from scoring too many points–we only have the defense left. Our current OL is as inept at opening holes in the run game as they are pass protecting for the QB. While Carson is promising, he has yet to prove he can run the ball 20-30 times a game and be effective (although I think he can, and I hope he can!).

    The way I see it, our current offensive personnel simply does not fit a run-first, TOP dominating offense anymore. We have great receiving weapons in Baldwin, Lockett, Graham, and Richardson, along with a bevy of backs that have shown they can catch the ball out of the backfield (or split out wide, in Prosise’s case). To me, that kind of personnel is more suited to a spread type of offense, one that emphasizes a quick hitting passing game and one that can maximize Wilson’s talents as a passer. That doesn’t mean we can’t have a balanced offense or that we can’t run the ball anymore. It simply means we aren’t stubbornly sticking to a “game script” where we’re running the ball simply to run it.

    To me, and correct me if I’m wrong, but we’re not “establishing the run game” when we’re repeatedly running at a defense only to get stuffed time and time again against an 8-man box. Why are we taking 5-7 step dropbacks against heavy pressure looks when we know the OL can’t give us nearly enough time to be successful? All we’re doing is wasting precious possessions and tiring out our defense. It’s not a problem that has an easy solution imo. I don’t think we can solve it simply by firing Bevell and Cable. I think a fundamental shift in thinking is needed from Pete. I watch offenses like New England, Atlanta, and especially Kansas City and how they adapt their game plan week to week to take advantage of each defense’s weaknesses. I envy the creativity and effectiveness of their offenses. I do not think that our current offensive scheme fits the personnel we have, nor does it come close to achieving Carroll’s goal of dominating the TOP and wearing defenses down.

    Sorry for the long post, but that’s just my thoughts. Feel free to rip them apart friends; I’d love a good discussion on the matter. Thanks for all you do again Rob, you don’t know how much we all appreciate reading such great content during the season!

    • Ishmael says:

      Great post, sums up a lot of my thoughts. Part of what made that ’13 offense work was the RO stuff, and the threat Wilson was posing as a runner. Teams have got better at defending it, but there’s still a place for it in the game – we saw that in the Chiefs-Pats game.

      There seems to be a disconnect between what Carroll wants, who Schneider is drafting, and the plan on gameday.

      • SeaHusky says:

        Exactly. I get that Carroll and Bevell run a “game script” of 20-30 plays to run in the first quarter/half in order to probe the opposing defense and make adjustments in the second half. But I have a couple problems with that philosophy. Namely, we either aren’t making the right adjustments, or we simply aren’t physically capable of executing those adjustments on the OL side of things. Second, what’s happening over the past couple years is that we’re just basically wasting away the first half by playing so conservative. It’s only when we’re playing from behind in the second half that the offense starts going up-tempo and scoring points because of that.

        I want to step on the gas pedal right from the start. We’re lucky we have such a dominating defense; otherwise, we’d be playing from behind every single game. It sucks watching our offense do nothing for an entire half of the game only to turn it on in the second half. It puts unnecessary strain on our defense when we could instead just be more aggressive. That puts the defense in a position to pin their ears back and attack the QB constantly as teams become increasingly desperate to catch up, much like how 2013 turned out. We have more than enough weapons to become at least a competent offense, but I believe that our current offensive scheme is hamstringing our potential.

        • peter says:

          for me getting points early and fast plays into the defense as well sure they are on the field longer (than what though I’m not sure of…) but they opposing offense then has to get into a shootout or at least becomes more likely to take risks, hopefully producing turnovers and sacks. granted it’s easier to type this than do this but seattle realistically risks injury to key defensive players if they continue to flounder on offense like last night.

          • SeaHusky says:

            Pete’s response to a reporter’s question today about going more up-tempo was downright confusing. He said that while he’d like to do more of it, it’s risky when playing an explosive opposing offense, as it allows them more possessions.

            Isn’t our defense literally designed to prevent explosives?? The foundation of our defensive philosophy is to limit the big plays and allow the underneath stuff to make teams dink and dunk. The question becomes would we rather score more points and have the opposing offense play right into our hands, or continue what we’re doing and have an inept offense that struggles to spell our defense? Pete needs to look hard at his own philosophy and think about what he wants to do going forward. Because I can pretty confidently predict that we’ll lose in the playoffs again as soon as we play a team that has a competent defense. We don’t scare anybody offensively.

            • Joshua Smith says:

              Our defense is also almost better at scoring than our offense. We might have a better chance of winning if we just played defense the entire game. Would’nt have had the fumble on the 1 and should of had 7 points. Our defense alone would have only lost to GB and Aaron Rodgers 10-7

    • MSL says:

      I agree 100%. If it comes down to Pete’s philosophy that’s the problem, Bevel needs to stand his ground, and make Pete understand why his plan won’t work. Honestly though, I’m not sure Pete is that blind. If someone were to show him the light, I think he’d follow it. Maybe Bevel isn’t the right guy to do that. It’s so hard to imagine Pete looking back at the offense’s performance the last three years and be ok with it. There’s always an excuse, but never an answer on how to fix it.

      I think it’s painfully clear something in the offense is broken. We’ll never know what as outsiders, but someone in that organization has to know where the problem lies.

      • AlaskaHawk says:

        I’ll try to expand on this later, but the short version of my thoughts are: if you pick coaches for a run first offense, it isn’t surprising that they don’t have the best of passing schemes. So when the run doesn’t work because the defense loads the box, they fall back on a passing attack which will always be a little less sophisticated than other passing teams. It is the nature of the beast. They won’t improve the passing game until they hire a coach that can draw up plays and teach them.

        I’m not saying the passing is bad so much as the routes are predictable.

  12. Ed says:

    Two ways the Hawks have been successful on O.

    1. Final drive of the 2nd quarter. So do that more often.
    2. Man on man smashmouth football. When they employ more of this scheme, they run better.

    Do what works, no matter what your thoughts and passions are. That’s what has made NE constant (and a very crappy division). They throw a lot one week, then run a lot the next. They throw deep a lot one week, they never throw deep the next. It’s called game planning DB, let’s try it. If something is not working, do something else until something works. And don’t wait until it’s too late.

    Ahhhh

    • SeaHusky says:

      Your NE comment is what kills me about the Seahawks. I don’t see any deviation in our game planning for different opponents. When you’re as talented as our defense, you can run a simple scheme and dare other teams to beat us mano y mano on talent alone. Our offense isn’t nearly talented enough to have that kind of philosophy. If we’re facing a dominant run defense, let’s air the ball out 40+ a game. If its the opposite, let’s run the hell out of the ball.

      I don’t think this is just a Bevell problem either; I think it’s a problem with Pete’s overall stubbornness to any deviation from his philosophy. When you watch this offense play, could anyone look me in the eye and honestly tell me they believe they’re seeing adaptability, creativity, and, most importantly, effectiveness? The lack of a consistent offense has been the sole reason we haven’t won more than one Superbowl with this group imo. We don’t even need to be one of the highest scoring offenses in the league; all we need is a consistent product week in, week out, one that can score effectively against playoff-caliber teams with competent defenses.

      • Tien says:

        I agree with you SeaHusky about this not all being on Bevell and his play calling. My impression is that PC is a huge believer in his philosophy in lining up his guys with the same game plan each week and daring the other teams to stop us. Offensively, we’re just not as talented anymore to have this philosophy and I think that there’s so only so much Bevell can do with his play calling and still stay true to Pete’s vision.

        But I still don’t understand why we can’t consistently execute the slant (probably due to Russell’s height) or the screen well. If we could do either/both regularly, it would relieve a lot of pressure on the OL & Russell.

        Here’s hoping they figure it out before too long. Our D (Richardson has been a great addition and other than Rodgers, there won’t be too many other QBs that can function against our pass rush this year) & special teams are too good this year to waste it again on a soul crushingly bad offense.

        • SeaHusky says:

          That’s one of the most frustrating things about our offense. We don’t have an effective counter to heavy pressure, something that every offense should have. A piece of my soul dies every time we call for a 5-7 step dropback when pressure is in Wilson’s face in less than 2 seconds because one of our OL is getting knocked back on their ass (lmao kill me).

    • Phil says:

      Ed – I agree with your overall point that the Seahawks coaches should spend more time game planning. But, on your first point — that the Seahawks should do more of what they did on the final drive of the 2nd quarter — keep in mind that because there was so little time left the Packers had gone into a “prevent” defense which I believe is a mistake against the Seahawks and most other good teams in the NFL. So, the plays that worked on the final drive of the 2nd quarter are unlikely to work against the defenses you will face at other times in the game.

  13. Ishmael says:

    Serious questions for the fire Bevell/Cable crowd.

    Who do you want to replace him/them?

    Why do you want that person coaching the Hawks ie. what will they bring that’s better/different/new?

    How much influence do you think Carroll has over the offensive design?

    When do you want the change to happen?

    • trevor says:

      You cannot replace the coaches mid season if it was going to be done it had to be done in the off season.

      As for who to replace Cable. Any capable OL coach to be honest.

      Enough with all the excuses no other team in the league has had a garbage OL 5-6 years straight. I am watching the Vikings tonight who were awful last year on the OL and you can see big improvement. Why can every other team at least put together a functioning OL except us?

      If as Rob pointed out there are no good OL to draft why can all other teams put together a functioning OL except the Hawks. When they don’t it is fixed in a year or two. We are on year 6!

      • Ishmael says:

        It’s a genuine question. I could name maybe… Two other offensive line coaches in the league? Definitely couldn’t name any in college. Are there any coaches who have been able to turn a line around in a season? I’d love to look into them, try and work out what they did to turn things around.

        The Hawks aren’t alone, the Texans and Giants were absolutely heinous on the weekend. The Bengals sucked. The Packers weren’t any good either, but Rodgers is quite a bit better than Wilson.

        Watching the Vikings now who were disgusting up front last year, they look pretty good. Bradford is getting the ball out insanely fast though, not giving the rush a chance to get to him. No seven-step drops, know your guys and what they’re capable of.

        • Joshua Smith says:

          Yeah I watched the Bengals game and it was bad. O-line play is a problem across the league. I think what is frustrating to us is that the Hawks have had a sub par O-line for so long it seems. There are also varying degrees of bad O-line play, so you can’t lump them all together and say they’re even, but I do think there is more blame to go around on this offense outside of the O-line.

          • Ishmael says:

            The Saints line was awful last night as well. There’s maybe a quarter of the teams in the league who have genuinely awful O-lines. The Hawks are far from alone, but they need to figure something out sharpish. If that means exposing Wilson to a bit more risk on designed runs and rollouts, I think it has to happen.

      • Rob Staton says:

        Generally teams are not putting functioning O-lines on the field. They’re either also really bad (go watch the Texans vs Jacksonville) or they’re finding ways to work around the problem (as GB did against us).

    • SeaHusky says:

      I agree with Rob in that firing Bevell/Cable won’t make much of a difference. And that’s because I believe that Carroll refuses to deviate from his philosophy of being a run-first, TOP dominating offense. The buck stops at Carroll. Eventually, he’s going to have to either acknowledge that what we have isn’t working and adapt, or remain stubborn and continue chasing the ghost of the offense we had with Lynch while having personnel that isn’t suited to that type of offense. All the while, we’re wasting precious years of this historic defense.

      • bv eburg says:

        Seahusky nailed it.
        PC needs to adjust his philosophy or we will just continue to be another one and done SB winner. To bad because the talent is there. It would be interesting to see what Belicheck or Reid could do with this group.

      • Phil says:

        Let’s keep in mind that even though we played really bad, we would have won the game but for a couple of really bad calls by the officials. And, the Seahawks have consistently made the playoffs under Carroll, won one Superbowl, should have won another. So, talk about firing Carroll is ridiculous at this point. He has been very successful employing his philosophy, so making wholesale changes is unlikely IMHO.

        What is tough for me to understand is that Carroll’s USC teams were far more aggressive offensively. He has not always been so focused on the run. His passing offenses under Mark Sanchez and Matt Leinart were very potent. So, I don’t think it’s a question of him being reluctant to change, I just think he hasn’t yet felt any need/pressure to change.

        Another thing working against opening up the offense is that RW has repeatedly said that he doesn’t like running the ball. I would love to see more read-option, with RW keeping the ball. But, I’m not the guy who has to take the hits that he has to take. Concussions, and the brain damage that comes with them, are a very real threat to every player in the NFL and particularly QBs who decide to run the ball. I’m sad to say that the emphasis on the read-option is a thing of the past.

        I’m as angry and frustrated as any fan, but we could easily be 1 and 0 instead of 0 and 1.

    • MSL says:

      I don’t know who, but there are tons of talented coordinators/coaches in the NFL and college. It’s the teams job to find them.

      They will bring something different and new….our offense is stale, ineffective, and not adaptable.

      Who knows? But if it’s his philosophy driving the offense and Bevel and the rest of the staff haven’t been able to show him the light yet, then they never will and we need someone in here who will. A hard charger on the offense who will change Pete’s mind.

      The change should have happened after the SB loss. The added benefit is it would have saved the team some turmoil in the seasons since then. Since that didn’t happen, I’d be fine with it happening now. If not now, immediately after the season ends. It is time.

  14. Nathan says:

    Rob, are you being a bit selective when listing the lineman picked after the first round?

    To use the pro bowl as a measuring stick, especially for O line is not telling the full story.

    Some other very capable O linemen(the tackle for New Orleans being one) have been picked after round 1.

    • dylanlep says:

      Agree here Nathan. We don’t need pro bowlers we just need functioning/average. This group is well below average.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I don’t think so. How can we possibly judge whether they made an error judging Ryan Ramcyzk when he’s only played one game in the NFL?

      • Nathan says:

        I don’t meanhim, I mean the guy they picked in 2013.

        What’s his name?

        Joel Bitonio is another one.

        • Rob Staton says:

          Armstead. Yes he’s been a useful player for New Orleans. Feel free to add him to the small list of names in the piece.

          I liked Bitonio in college a lot and wanted Seattle to draft him. However, he has been injured a lot and if they take Bitonio it’s likely they don’t take Britt so it worked out well for Seattle there.

  15. Mark Radermacher says:

    I want to believe that the offensive line play will improve the more our guys play together. Watching those videos, though…oy vey. Those weren’t blown assignments. We just got manhandled. Here’s hoping ithat is something we can correct through coaching (better hand use, lower pad level, etc.).

    Also, it was surprising to hear that former Minnesota Timberwolves point guard Pooh Richardson is a Seahawk. Who knew? Glad to hear hees kept in shape.

  16. Reggie in IOWA says:

    How can we honestly say we want to be a smash mouth running team without a true fullback on the team? I think it is understated how valuable Michael Robinson was to the SB team of 2013!

  17. Pran says:

    Was the defense able to time our snap count? Last season we were basically telling defenses by patting on the back for snaps.

  18. KD says:

    I was curious about something that I needed to look up. Remember two seasons ago when Wilson went on that super hot streak? How prevalent was the running game? Here are the results:

    DATE – TOP RUNNER – ATT – YARDS – TEAM RUSHING
    11/22 – Rawls – 30/209 – 255
    11/29 – Rawls – 21/81 – 100
    12/6 – Rawls – 19/101 – 173
    12/13 – Rawls – 6/44 – 123
    12/20 – Michael – 16-84 – 182

    This hot streak came AFTER Marshawn got injured that year. I’m wondering if the problem is thinking that A causes B when in fact B is causing A. In this case, when Marshawn was healthy, I would say that it was the run setting up the pass, but when he was injured, I would say that it was more a case of the pass setting up the run. I’d have to go really deeper into the numbers, but we saw what Russ is capable of when he unleashes the passing game and gives him to opportunity to open the running game. It’s as Rob mentioned before, teams are not game planning for our running game like they did with Marshawn, so I don’t think that establishing the run early is going to work anywhere near as well.

    • Sea Mode says:

      This is great insight! I thought the same, but hadn’t taken the time to back it up with stats.

      And basically, to go in line with what Rob was suggesting about a change in philosophy on offense, instead of running to set up explosive passing plays, we can pass to set up explosive running plays. (once the defense is forced to stop loading the box).

      If you do look into this data more, please post a guest article!

    • MSL says:

      I think this is a perfect example of when they (the team) realized they couldn’t run the offense they wanted to with the O-Line they had and actually adapted to the personnel they had in a way that helped the O-Line out. Why they didn’t continue with this scheme last season I’ll never understand.

      “We had a historic run on offense last season. Let’s table that and go back to how we’ve always done it.”

  19. red says:

    Would like to see some more read option/pistol looks, but Lacy is not really built for that. When Rawls get backs we will see, also maybe pick Davis up from practice squad and send madden or Mckissic to p squad.

    • Volume12 says:

      Seattle might be taking the wrong RBs. You need one cut runners yes, but if they haven’t made a decision by the third step the play is over before it begins. Your RB has to make reads in a zone. They don’t know where the lanes will be pre-snap. Remember last year when Baldwin complimented Prosise and his ability to find the ‘dark creases?’

      And these backs are not making the right reads. They’re trying to improvise. That will never work in a zone because the backs feet are in synch with the O-linemans block. Timing wise.

      Its why Lynch was so good here. He made the proper reads. Cutback or to the edge. That’s it. Trust your eyes and what your seeing as a RB in a zone.

      • Kenny Sloth says:

        The only one making the reads is Carson.

        The rest look like Beast mode when he first got here

      • AlaskaHawk says:

        Even Lynch got stopped behind the line when there wasn’t a hole to run through. The line has to open up a hole. Comments about Lacey’s speed are irrelevant until a hole is opened up.

    • Phil says:

      Following up on my earlier point, the read option is not going to be effective if the defense realizes that it’s unlikely that the QB is going to keep the ball. I don’t think RW wants to be a runner, nor do I think the coaching staff want him to be one. Sure, if the pocket is collapsing and he has to scramble, that’s one thing. But, I just don’t think he wants to take the shots he’s going to take if they run a lot of read option.

  20. Kyle says:

    I agree it pisses me off to see Vikings with a decent oline. Whether it’s play calling or just improvement, it is disheartening to us fans to watch this oline play week after week year after year. You hate the fire TC DB talk, which I get it, it is old… You talk about petes philosophy, which is good. I think we have the personnel to do it, to blow people off the ball and run hard and control the TOP. But our zone run scheme is not the answer. We have big athletic men up front. Switch to man on man scheme and play smash mouth like the cowboys do. Line up and drive. That is my problem with TC, he loves the zone scheme and thinks when mastered anyone can run it. The problem, no one has mastered it in a years apparently and we keep rotating linemen. Switch the damn scheme to fit your personnel or move on from him.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think it’s a stretch to say the Vikings have a decent O-line. They’ve spent millions on Riley Reiff and Mike Remmers, who were both dumped by their previous teams so they could equally throw money at guys like Matt Kalil and Ricky Wagner.

      They played against one of the worst defenses in the league (New Orleans). Let’s see how the Vikings fair against tougher opponents.

  21. Volume12 says:

    I’m jealous man. RB Dalvin Cook is legit. Loved him and still do.

    Ishmael, u go by Ish? U asked me about Eddie Lacey? I think, and I could be wrong, that he’ll be their hammer. Like ohh… Corey Dillon was for NE? IMO he’s your clock killer. They probably want him to be a tone setter, but I’m not sure that’s what he is at this point.

    • Hawk Eye says:

      what he is at this point is TOO slow.
      Not fat, just too slow. Maybe things get better, but not if the o line can’t give him a few steps to build up a head of steam.

    • C-Dog says:

      I felt the jealousy seeing Garett Bolles playing for Denver last night. That boy looked really really good.

    • Ishmael says:

      You know the guy I was really digging last night? Alvin Kamara. He’s like a rocket, exactly the sort of RB we need.

      I think I’m with you on Lacy. They had an idea about what he was going to be, but they might have to reconsider.

  22. Aaron says:

    While Cable isn’t 100% to blame, it is his unit that’s been the weakest on this team since he got here, and especially the past three seasons. What I saw yesterday was not just communication errors and missed assignments. I saw guys getting physically beaten play after play. I saw pathetic attempts to pass block and run block. I saw gross incompetence from those five guys up front. This wasn’t just bad o line play, it was don’t deserve to be in the NFL and wear an NFL jersey type of o line play. Cable must be held accountable for his unit’s play. He is their coach, their mentor, their teacher. To paraphrase a quote from Star Wars Episode I – The Phantom Menace…

    “If this body is not capable of action, I suggest new leadership is needed. I move for a Vote of No Confidence in [Tom Cable’s] leadership.”

    The opportunity to win a super bowl is right in front of us. It is a travesty to waste such an all time great defense because we are so blasted incompetent up front. I will drink the Kool Aid no longer. It’s time to mutually part ways with Tom Cable. If such gross incompetence continues I will no longer put myself through this stress and will stop watching my favorite team until they properly address this offensive line. Put up or shut up!

    • MSL says:

      Agreed. We need a like button on this site.

    • FresnoBrad says:

      Agree with Aaron but I’m not going to blame young players that need time to develop. Also I’m a firm believer lifestyle is connected to performance of players & coaches (Tom Cable). I’m very suspicious of some things but I’m going to shut my big mouth for now unless the niner game demonstrates we’re going backwards.

  23. Volume12 says:

    What Seattle has up front is not a long term answer. RW is amazing. I don’t really know how he does what he does. There’s not a team in the league that could win with this O-line and no RW. And therein lies the problem. They’re relying too much on RW making chicken salad outta sh**.

    BTW, GB had not just 1 red zone possession yesterday but 1 damn play inside the red zone. That’s insane when u have Aaron Rodgers. Care to guess what that play was (rhetorical question)?

  24. Joshua Smith says:

    Good article. I think that one of the biggest changes from 2012/2013/2014 and now is that Russ no longer makes miraculous scrambling/throwing on the run plays for first downs 5 or 6 times a game. Since the beginning of 2015 we just haven’t been bailed out by his heroics as often as we used to be. I honestly think that that might be just as big of a factor for the drop off as the absence of Lynch. I also think the O-line is a factor, but the o-line was never that good even in 2012/2013/2014. You missed one of the pro bowlers drafted after the first round in the PCJS era – Zane Beadles.

    • Phil says:

      Joshua – you are correct, but keep in mind that Russ was injured for most of last year which severely limited his mobility. And, we are only 1 game into this year and already we have seen Russ scramble for a big play late in the 2nd quarter that led to the Seahawks field goal. If your observation is still valid by mid-season, then I’ll be concerned.

  25. Joshua Smith says:

    The thing about Cable is that he insults our intelligences when he says stuff like our O-line is going to be a 8/10 rated pass blocking unit this year. Just cut the bull Cable. I’m one of the few who always defends Bevell, so it’s not a expendable coordinater thing – I just can’t stand Tom Cable sometimes.

    • dylanlep says:

      And that joeckel played like the best lg in the league? That was a good one.

    • MSL says:

      He’s delusional. He says (and probably really thinks) that this is a good O-Line. It’s always “We just missed a couple things” or “Just need to make a couple tweaks” etc. No, the line is complete trash and has been for way too long. Come on Pete, wake up and make the necessary changes. I’m tired of the same excuses over and over, year after year.

      • Phil says:

        “Come on Pete, wake up and make the necessary changes. I’m tired of the same excuses over and over, year after year.”

        MSL — were you around during the Jim Mora reign, or How about the Tom Flores years?

        These are the glory years for the Seahawk fans. We are a perennial playoff team.

        • Rob Staton says:

          And Phil’s point shouldn’t be forgotten.

          It’s all well and good telling Pete Carroll what to do. Seahawks fans — this is living the dream as a NFL fan base right now. They don’t get everything right but we shouldn’t expect them to. Enjoy this era of Seahawks football while it lasts because it won’t be here forever.

        • MSL says:

          Not good enough when being better is within your grasp. It’s not like there’s no offensive talent on the team. Always compete. If we get one SB out of these “glory years” it’s not good enough, and I’m sure Pete would tell you the same thing.

          I’m not saying I don’t appreciate the team overall or what they have done since Pete has been here. That’s not what we’re talking about, so don’t dismiss the idea of the offense getting better with a strawman argument.

          • Rob Staton says:

            I don’t think Phil is making a strawman argument when fans are literally telling Pete to ‘wake up’. I suspect he’s fully aware of the issues and is doing what he can to address them.

            The problem is some of us think it’s so easy to solve these problems. Seattle’s greatest ever Head Coach and GM combo are struggling to find the solution and yet we as fans know better? That’s a hard one to accept.

            As for one Super Bowl not being good enough — you might be right. But ultimately that’s how many Super Bowls the Colts got out of Peyton Manning, it’s how many the Saints have got out of Drew Brees and the 49ers didn’t win any during Harbaugh’s great spell in San Francisco. So the fact Seattle has one and was inches from a second might not appear enough — but there’s time to add to the tally and the one they’ve won shouldn’t be taken for granted.

          • Phil says:

            Come on MSL. We are one game into the season, We lost a game that many thought we would lose. To make wholesale changes to our coaching staff, our offensive scheme, our players, etc. at this time risks the rest of the season and the future beyond this season. Patience ….

  26. Volume12 says:

    What is… I can’t with this.

    Dude looks like a complete physco. ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

    https://mobile.twitter.com/nick_pants/status/907432841595768832/photo/1

  27. Hughz says:

    If JS doesn’t think it’s worth resigning Jimmy, at what point do we consider trading him? I know it’s a bit of an over reaction but in our system, it seems as if he’s not utilized to his max capabilities.

  28. LeoSharp says:

    After watching the game again. It was more obvious that quite a few running plays were blocked well but errors at TE,WR and FB ruined those opportunities.

    • vrtkolman says:

      Is that another argument to support spreading out the defense more? It seems that if we have to rely on the skill players holding their blocks in addition to the offensive linemen for a run to work, that is a lot of pieces that have to come together at once.

  29. Old but Slow says:

    Not seein’ it. The Seahawks played poorly against a strong team. That does not make them a bad team, or a loser. They will play better. Who knows, in a few games we may be praising Odhiambo and Glowinski. It is a learning experience and the films will give the players and coaches a lot to work with. A bad performance can lead to making adjustments, that lead to growth, and finally to a player.

    The offense seemed to play worried. There did not seem to a commitment to the plan from the players. That is just a subjective observation, but we were not seeing the brisk, quick, play from Russell, and after the first couple of plays when the pass rush was disruptive (mild description), it seemed as if the offense went into a shell. This should be an aggressive offense. Not like going long every play, but playing physically and with purpose.

    This a mild setback, not a disaster.

    We will win a lot of games. Keep the faith. Go ‘Hawks.

  30. nolyon says:

    I was listening to Brock and Salk from yesterday this morning.

    Salk was talking about how we can’t go up tempo against guys like Rodgers because we don’t want to try to trade scores with them. I get it, but when we have ZERO first downs in the game before we switch to up tempo, aren’t we giving Rodgers the ball incredibly fast anyways? We just aren’t scoring points.

    In a scenario where the defense has to be on the field for 70 plays either way, can’t we just run up tempo and at least score some points ourselves?

    Maybe I’m over simplifying, but it just seems like the up tempo game helps us hide our bad o line play, it allows Russell to do Russell things and it allows more of those one v one jump balls that Russ loves to throw and our guys are great at bringing in (see p-rich).

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think you have to pick your moments. It can’t be the only thing you do otherwise you end up looking like the Chip Kelly Eagles/49ers.

    • Hawk Eye says:

      the use the up tempo at the end of a half and it usually works.
      I think I heard them say during the Minnesota game they used the pass to set up the run.
      Their line looked ok. But against a bad defense.

      why not start the game with more up tempo, try to get a lead, and let the defense make the other team one dimensional. And if you have some success passing, they have to back off the line to defend the pass, and then you can run. If the defense does not know what you are going to do, it makes it harder to stop.
      And who says the other team has to score just because you scored fast? Would the D not prefer to play with a lead?
      And if you pass to the middle of the field and do not go out of bounds, it takes as much time as a run.

      let’s wait and see how they adjust before we all panic. The line at the end of 2015 was no better than this one, but the play calling was better.

      hearing some comments after the game, the Packers were surprised Hawks did not run more up tempo, and were glad they did not. And Russell seemed to be pushing for it.

      last year after 4 or 5 games, the 2 best teams seemed to be Philly and Minnesota. It will take 8 or 10 games before we know who is really the top 3 or 4 teams in the league.

      R
      E
      L
      A
      X

  31. Trevor says:

    As Rob mentioned yesterday GB and Capers really struggled with Kap and the zone read. Wonder why the Hawks dont sprinkle some in to switch things up against a GB defense that has our number?

    If we meet again in playoffs I hope they at least try it.

    • Logan Lynch says:

      If we meet again in the playoffs, I think things will be different. GB can’t feel great about the fact that they were pretty much shut down on O. Their “defensive dominance” was mainly due to our offensive ineptitude IMO. If Russ hits that Lockett throw and doesn’t lose that fumble, we may be talking about a totally different game. And that’s not even taking into account the officiating debacle. I think GB may be in for a rude awakening against ATL this weekend, at least defensively.

      • MSL says:

        There’s enough tape with the Seahawks offense getting dominated by the GB defense to suggest that next time will not be different. I’m always hopeful with “well maybe next time” but they let us down every time.

        We better hope they come up with a fix for the offense before the playoffs, or it will be another short playoff run on the road.

  32. FuzzyLOgic says:

    1. We need to realize our O-line is not going to get much better.
    2. PCJS are not going to fire Bev or Cable
    3. Our defense alone will take us to the promised land…at least 90% of the way.
    4. Our only hope is for the offensive scheme to change… Screen passes. Up tempo. Under 3 sec passes.
    Occasional long passes. Timely run plays and RW scramble/dedicated QB sneaks.

    One thing I wanted to mention is that it seems like we haven’t drafted as well in the last 3 or 4 years. Is it just me or do a bunch of other teams seem to be drafting better than us recently?

    • Logan Lynch says:

      I would only argue with #3. SEA has been a very poor screen team both to RBs and WRs for the entirety of the PC era. I do agree with the up tempo, shorter passes though. IMO until/if they get the OL fixed, Russ should be spending the majority of the time in shotgun so he’s not getting hit as soon as he finishes his pass drops. I know Russ has said he doesn’t want to run, but there were a few times against GB where I think he could have pulled the ball down and gotten healthy gains but instead chose to pass.

      As for the drafting poorly, it’s nearly impossible to replicate 2010-2012. However, Clark is an absolute star. Lockett is very good. Reed looks solid. This year’s class is extremely promising, even taking into account the fact that McDowell is a total question mark. Shaq, Naz, Carson look good so far and I like what I saw from Delano Hill in preseason. I would say their last 3 to 4 drafts have been more average than what we were spoiled with for so many years. We can’t set aside their UDFA success too.

    • Kenny Sloth says:

      1. This is just so wrong. The OL will ABSOLUTELY GET BETTER. It happens EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR.

      2. Why would they? They’re really good coaches. Need to run more. Sick of the pick routes

      3. Need more turnovers.

      4. People who say the OL won’t improve but want to implement more screen passes. We need to run the ball and if that doesn’t work run some more.

      RUN TO WIN WHATS WRONG WITH THE NFL

      Why does it seem like the 24-35 year olds in the league are way harder nosed than their coaches.

      Can’t wait to see what philosophies shake out from this era

      • Trevor says:

        Kenny did you watch our OL in the playoffs the last two years. Russ was running for his life. If that is what you call getting better then we are in deep trouble.

      • Sean says:

        Sure the OL will get better, but will it be good enough? Last year they were not good enough by the end of the year. Finished the year as one of the worst lines in football. There is no argument here.

  33. C-Dog says:

    One interesting tidbit that I picked up from Pete’s Monday presser when asked about how long it will take before Pocic finds himself in the starting rotation, Pete’s response was that the competition is on going and that Pocic and Aboushi still very much in the mix to start.

    I’ve had this thought for a while with the OL. Is part of the problem that there is too much tinkering, and coupled with that in the quest for versatility with some of the projected backups playing multiple spots, they are left with players that haven’t had much of a chance to master one?

    Britt is going into only his second year at center.
    Joekel has only ever played a hand full of games at LG before his season was cut short in 2016
    Odhiambo was flexing at four positions last year and was flexing between LT and LG in 2017 camp.
    Glowinski was LG last year and alternating with Aboushi with the starters at RG all through camp.
    Ifedi was starting RG all last year presumably because of rawness and has now shifted to 2017.

    Aboushi and Pocic and maybe even Tobin are still factoring into competition.

    Isn’t it amazing how caught up in the preseason we get when the OL plays adequately?

    I got suckered into thinking things would be fine.

    Maybe they still will be.

    Maybe it’s just a matter of some adjustments with the calls to put enough masking tape on the issues up front. I felt all throughout the game on Sunday that Seattle needed to spread that defense out and get out of the formations that would more easily lead to a jail break towards RW or the RB.

    Seattle has premier talent on that defense and one of the most dynamic quarterbacks in the game who is surrounded by talented playmakers. That should be enough to get it done most games. As ugly as it was in GB, you that sack fumble away and a couple miserable calls from the refs, Seattle could have reasonably walked out of there with a W.

    I think what they game illustrated to me is that this offense wasn’t ready to win the way Carroll would like it to roll, and in that circumstance, if even one of your key playmakers is off and not playing particularly well (Jimmy Graham), it likely puts you farther in the hole.

    My long winded way of saying that, IMO, it would be useful to settle on the line sooner and allow for these guys to play together, if you like these athletes, and then keep them together if you want to play this ZB scheme and be a methodical balanced offense that compliments great defensive efforts. Experimenting with former defensive tackles and power forwards in order to maximize the athleticism is fun in theory, but maybe now a little too much hubris in hind sight.

    If the fans are getting really tied of this, and reaching saturated levels of it, I would have to imagine a certain former Microsoft billionaire co-owner is probably getting a bit tired of it as well.

    • Logan Lynch says:

      I agree with much of this, especially the point about spreading the defense out. Really, we have pass catchers who are uniquely suited to winning early in their routes. This is especially true for Doug. He is so sudden, that he should win his route within the first 3 seconds and be open for Russ. Same for Lockett, although it may take him a bit considering he’s recovering from injury. Richardson isn’t as sudden, but he continues to show that he can make the redline catches if you put the ball in the air for him (as long as he doesn’t cut the route short like he did against GB on that one play). In addition, Graham’s size should allow him to win early. In theory, they could sit Russ back in the shotgun and try to hit quick passes to soften up the D and get some run looks out of that. Then again, if it was this easy they would already be doing it.

  34. Logan Lynch says:

    Serious question that may have been addressed already and I missed it. When the offense and Russ were historically great the 2nd half of 2015, what changed in terms of the offense? I mean, schematically. Were they running more bootleg concepts, quick passes, etc? I know if they thought they could replicate that production, SEA would obviously be trying to do more of the same. Their OL wasn’t much better that year and they still got great results. I’m just wondering if we broke tendencies a bit for that stretch or if it was just a stroke of luck that everything clicked.

  35. Cysco says:

    I’m not convinced that it was Marshawn Lynch that was the key to making the Hawk’s offense click in previous years, but rather it was Wilson’s ability to run and the coaching staff’s willingness to use that ability. Sure having Lynch was big, but I think that the threat of the QB run set up the entire offense.

    Between 2010 and 2015 Wilson had the following Attempts/Yards rushing

    2012: 94/489
    2013: 96/539
    2014: 118/849
    2015: 103/553
    2016: 72/259

    Looking at those stats, it’s easy to see why the offense struggled last year. Wilson was immobile. If there is no threat of Wilson running, the team becomes very one dimensional. In previous years, this offense has looked its best when Wilson runs. I understand the fear of getting him injured, but having that type of weapon and not using it is really hurting the offensive production. When was the last time we saw any real designed QB runs or options as part of the offensive gameplan?

    I think the team needs to utilize the designed QB run/option again to at least show that it’s still a threat and to keep the defense honest. Against some teams it’s fine to have Wilson live in the pocket. If a defense is selling out and being super aggressive it would be worth having Wilson keep the ball a few times.

    • Sea Mode says:

      Agree completely!

      I think they want him to become this elite “pocket passer”, but he lacks the OL to do so and also negates his running threat. Russ is elite at backyard, houdini football. Let’s let him use his skills rolling out and running the ball a few times to keep defenses honest. I honestly think the risk of injury is less for him running around than getting nailed in the pocket anyway.

      My question is (honest, without rancor towards the coaching staff or anything): They obviously see these things, just like we do. They see the possible solutions that could help the offense get out of a rut in certain games and help negate the OL… um… inexperience. So why are they consciously choosing to keep running right into the teeth of an overstacked box? And if fans see this and become frustrated, players surely that much more.

      I want to combine your insight with what KD researched furthur up the thread. The correlation between run/pass and QB run/option during our record-setting offense of the 2nd half of 2015. We have the talent, arguably even more now than we had then. The best thing about this data period is that Marshawn was out, so that factor is out of the question. If anyone else has any ideas, let us know, cause that could be a real breakthrough in understanding what has happened.

      • 503Hawk says:

        So much of it is “who” you play, “when” do you play them (health to key players, or e.g. outdoors in December), and “where” do you play them (home vs away, or type of playing surface).
        Hard to put all of those variables into an equation.

      • Phil says:

        RW wants to have a long, successful career. And, he wants to be healthy enough when he retires that he can still remember that long career. I want to see him keep the ball on the read option, but I understand completely that doing so risks serious injury, so I understand it when he says that he doesn’t enjoy being a runner.

  36. Ishmael says:

    One little thing to think about is that Joeckel has always struggled with the really big man-beast athletes up front. He’s fine technically and mentally, but against the real , dogs he just doesn’t have the body. Daniels is one of those guys, but he’s close to the best DT in the league against the run. It’s him, Suh, and maybe a couple of other guys. Wouldn’t be surprised if he plays a lot better next week.

    Also, there was an interesting bit on Twitter I saw about how little Seattle trusts their O-line. They went to heavy and max protection a lot, with the end result being Wilson having one or two targets downfield against four or five defenders. Can’t make those numbers work. Have to find a better way to keep Wilson upright while still giving him something to work with downfield.

  37. Barry says:

    Simple fact is that the offense has not been effective for the last 3 years.

    We want to blame the O line, well look at what Rogers had to deal with the other day. As nice of a few players the Pack have on D, the fact is the Hawks D make the matter even ground, its a push. Where is Wilson and (our playmaker) how about a coordinator that not only expects the players to make a play but it is his job to put these players in a position to.

    Its correct we no longer have Lynch. But we have Graham and other talented players. It’s the coaches that need to figure out how to best utilize these players and Bevell has proven he doesn’t know how to use Jimmy.

    Wilson for all his achievements has no Idea how to step up in a pocket. If he has rush ends up the field he panics. His comfort zone is escaping off-tackle and you saw this as the team implemented a moving or rolling pocket the second half. Its frustrating issue to deal with because it was very evident last year. Every good QB can step up and move around in a failing pocket. This is the NFL a clean pocket is very rare even for the greats. Wilson will need to learn to move around in a “broken pocket” if we are to improve and its something he has shown he hasnt been able to do. It simply could be a matter of his height.

    • Rob Staton says:

      In fairness the offense set records in 2015 and Wilson was injured throughout last season.

    • Volume12 says:

      You mean the 5’10 QB that every team passed on twice and was a 3rd rounder has flaws? Imagine.

      • 503Hawk says:

        I don’t know if this has been touched on yet… Russ has never been consistently great at reading defenses and at times tends to be over cautious when throwing the ball. Could it be that he may not really trust his teammates as much as he trusts himself? Could it also be that he might be getting the “Chrissie Everett” syndrome? Back in 2013 after the miracle comeback against Houston I wrote Rob about my concerns with the O-line and that Russ may not make it through the season because he was getting hit so often. Those things add up.

        • Volume12 says:

          Look. He’s amazing. If Seattle didn’t have him they’d be a perennial 6-10 or 7-9 team. What he does behind this trash O-line is nothing short of miraculous. I honestly don’t know how he does it.

          But he’s got flaws. He’s too conservative most of the time. He rarely trusts his WRs to go make a play on the ball unless it’s a 3rd & long or a desperation throw. He does have trouble throwing over the top of DEs & DTs its why so many ball are batted down.

          He sails his throws and that’s because he has to over compensate for his lack of height.

          Biggest issue? He’s seeing and hearing ghosts. Meaning that he’s been pressured and hurried so much over the course of his career he think there’s pressure when there isn’t. Which leads to him hurrying his throws and overthrowing guys. Or he gets too anxious, drops his eyes, and leaves the pocket too soon.

          And that’s the fallout from not having adequate pass protection. The QB position is such a cerebral position. You start messing with your QB’s physche and he’ll start messing around and miss throws or leave ones that are there to be had on the table.

          • AlaskaHawk says:

            My take is that his biggest flaws are running backwards down the field to gain time, just throw it away. Second biggest flaw, doesn’t take care of the ball within their own 20 yard line. He has lost the ball near the wrong goal line a number of times in critical games. Once again, throw it away. Third biggest flaw, not having an offensive coordinator that can design a passing game that will play to his strengths and the opponents weaknesses.

        • Phil says:

          503Hawk – Could it be that he has been coached to hang onto the ball rather than sling it?

          • 503Hawk says:

            I’m sure he has; in certain situations. However, time and time again we have heard from legit sources (including Pete) that other times (play call, situational adjustments) they want him to throw on schedule / in rhythm.

  38. Smitty1547 says:

    I really thought we would be reading about Reece having resigned with team by now.

  39. Trevor says:

    Rob you favourite OL prospect in recent memory Garrett Bolles looked great last night for his first game action in the NFL against some quality edge rushers in Bosa and Ingram. He is a stud.

    I thought Cam Robinson and Ryan R looked pretty good as well. Seems like for all the talk of last years OT being a weak class you might get 3 legit starters early in their careers at a minimum.

    Still bummed about Fant I think he would have been another young OT with the athleticism to be a legit LT. Really hope that injury does not derail his assent. On a positive note if Rees and Ifedi can improve this year we may finally have some OT depth.

  40. Volume12 says:

    Marshawn masked so much of this offense’s inefficiencies. Not only that he was a leader. Does anyone in that Seattle RB room have a voice? This has always been a gimmick offense. The league has caught on. It relied on defensive breakdowns, scramnble drills , and deep shot passinhg. You take away the chunk plays from the passing game. What are you left with now? Absolutely nothing.

    We can talk about 2015. That was an exception, not the norm. That’s almost impossible to sustain. It was pretty special for a reason.

  41. Volume12 says:

    Tyler Lockett getting more snaps at WR this week. I would bet that means he’s a focal point this week as he should be. Good things happen when you target this man.

  42. Ed says:

    Just open it up. You want to pound sometimes, fine. I formation, get the monsters you have on the line go man blocking scheme and blow people off the ball. That’s how you run. ZBS is like the newspaper. Tell the oline to smack the guy in front of them. Tell Lacy to look at the donuts in the endzone and just run down hill.

    • Volume12 says:

      Top 5 teams in rushing yards per game last year:

      1. Buffalo- this will be the 3rd year their running a zone blocking scheme
      2. Dallas- power/man
      3. Tennesse- ‘exotic smashmouth’ they incorporate a ton of ZB elements
      4. San Francisco- ZBS
      5. Atlanta- ZBS

      It hasn’t gone the way of the newspaper at all.

      • Ed says:

        It really has. Do some people still get the paper, yes. But most go digital. Rules and practices make it harder and harder to run that style. Also, you need certain RB to make the ZBS work correctly. That’s why Denver used to be so good. The oline had grit, tutoring and continuity. Plug in RB and the run still worked. As for the teams you named (outside of SF), they all have legit backs and have all spent (except maybe Buf) high picks on OL

  43. lil'stink says:

    To be optimistic – this might be our toughest game all year, and we were still in the game in the 4th quarter at Lambeau. Wilson’s fumble, missing a wide open Lockett, and the refs making perhaps the worst officiated play we’ll see all year on the Naz Jones pick six (Lane’s ejection being a big part) were all the difference.

    Then the reality sets in. It’s hard to be optimistic about the OL going forward. We couldn’t run against a dime defense. I know Pocic and Aboushi aren’t known for their run blocking but I can’t help but think they are 2 of our best 5 linemen. Why aren’t they on the field?

    The only time the offense got any rhythm was when we went up tempo, which we refuse to do very often. I understand the rationale for why you don’t go up tempto all the time. But when your offense has no rhythm and doesn’t get their first 1st down until the 2nd quarter something needs to change.

    The coaches are still game planning as though we have a good run blocking OL and a generational talent at RB in Marshawn. We obviously don’t. The coaching staffs ability (or, perhaps, inability) to evolve to their current talent level will be key in determining our success this year.

  44. cha says:

    The offensive issues make me think of 90’s-era Bulls before they won a bunch of titles. The coaches didn’t want Jordan getting all the shots right out of the gate, so they spread the ball around, then assessed when to start giving Jordan more looks. Well, what happened was the Bulls were always behind early and if Jordan wasn’t completely on, they were in trouble.

    So they adjusted. They had Jordan race out of the gate and get them the lead and their defense took advantage of the pressure the offense created.

    Then later, they adjusted again as Pippen, Grant, Kerr, etc filled into their roles better.

    It feels like the Hawks have traditionally played a very vanilla, ‘feel the defense out’ early in the game on offense and not adjusted. I’m not saying the Hawks’ offense has always come out plodding every game they’ve played in the PC era, it just feels like so many times they open with run left, run right, RW tries a pass on 3rd & 8, incomplete, punt and let’s hope the ST and defense do their jobs.

    It might be time to open up with a quick strike type formation. Slants and quick passes to the WR’s mixed with some of Carson’s cutback runs (you get the defense set up for ‘pump and go’ routes later in the game). Passes to Prosise in space. A couple intentional targets to Graham to get him engaged early on.

    I’m not saying abandon the core philosophy of the team, or run this wide-open offense the whole game and get everyone gassed. Just start with a little more aggressiveness than usual.

  45. pran says:

    Seahawks O reputation is taking a big hit.. if it continues it might impact their ability to attract talent cheaply

    • Rob Staton says:

      I don’t think there’s a way to attract talent cheaply other than the draft — and in that scenario players don’t get to pick their teams.

      • pran says:

        Cheaply – vets who wants to play for winning clubs taking a discount. we have not seen much of it on Offense till now except may be Fred Jackson and Lacy recently. Acquiring elite talent will be even more difficult. Sheldon Richardson might be ready for a discount to be part of that Defense. can we same the about a similar player on offense? S
        Seattle’s drafts recently are not going that well so we may have to acquire from market more to sustain with the current core.
        2016 draft is already looking like a failure except may be Reed ( Coaches seem to have lost some confidence on Procise seeing the way his use in game 1).
        2015 draft is little decent with Frank C and No E
        2014 draft is epic bust – Britt is salvaged some how. P Rich may end up good but not for us
        2013 draft is epic bust -Luke W being the best of the lot

    • DC says:

      Just out of curiosity, what cheap O talent have we attracted to date?

  46. Kenny Sloth says:

    Hey Rob, how did you like CCV’s premier for Sheffield?