Just a few thoughts a week away from free agency…
Who are the six?
When Pete Carroll spoke to John Clayton at the combine he mentioned they’d narrowed their search for free agent pass rushers to ‘half a dozen’ targets.
So who are they likely to be? This is my guess…
1. Jadeveon Clowney
Carroll stated it was a ‘huge priority’ to retain Clowney.
2. Yannick Ngakoue
Tony Pauline reported last week they were interested in trading for him.
3. Everson Griffen
He was linked to a Carroll reunion as soon as he opted to void his Vikings contract.
4. Arik Armstead
He’s an ideal fit for the five technique and can play inside or out.
5. Dante Fowler
He has the speed they look for off the edge and he was productive in 2019.
6. Robert Quinn
He’s an injury risk but led the league in pass rush win percentage in 2019.
Their willingness to narrow the options also hints at a very focused and determined approach to land both the ‘premier pass rusher’ Carroll wants for the LEO and the run defender who can also rush at the five technique.
Again, they had Clowney in 2019 and he alone wasn’t enough. They need to add to the D-line, not maintain the status quo. With their remaining cap space (which can be increased with some predictable cuts) they have possibly earmarked a set amount for both the LEO and the five tech.
If the list above is a sound prediction, it could mean they’ve budgeted for Clowney or Armstead — followed by the addition of one of the four pass rushers.
Who they sign to play the LEO could depend on how much they spend on Clowney/Armstead. What’s left of the budget? If there’s more available than expected — perhaps they can splash for Ngakoue via trade? If the budget is lower than intended, it could mean trying to work something out with the older veterans Griffen or Quinn. And it’s always possible Fowler has a colder than expected market given what happened a year ago. Some players just don’t turn the league on (so to speak).
There’s also the possibility of an unexpected trade.
What happens with Jarran Reed?
It’s pretty clear the Seahawks are strongly motivated to retain Reed. Culture and familiarity has an even greater importance these days. Both Carroll and John Schneider have praised Clowney and Reed for their ‘fit’.
However, first and foremost they’ve got to get the edge rush sorted. Until that happens, everything else has to take a backseat. If Reed gets a significant offer in the first wave of free agency the Seahawks might have to accept defeat. They’ll probably be hoping he remains available long enough for them to sort out the LEO and five — and then they can see if there’s a deal to be done with their remaining cap room.
There’s a precedent for this. In 2011 they were able to retain Brandon Mebane after he reached the market, while making significant moves to sign Sidney Rice, Zach Miller, Tarvaris Jackson and Robert Gallery.
After all, Everything seems unrealistic until it happens. Remember — the teams with hard cash to spend (like the Seahawks) can structure contracts to fit. You also need to factor in the likely rise in cap space over the next few years if the new CBA is ratified plus the fact several big contracts (Duane Brown, Justin Britt, K.J. Wright) will no longer be on the books within a couple of years.
The Seahawks know they need to improve the D-line. That’s hard to do if you lose one or both of your two (only?) quality starters. They might be more motivated than they usually would be to keep Reed. It’s not an ideal way to start attacking the off-season by losing one or two key players on a unit that’s already your greatest need.
I think with Reed it’ll simply come down to what the market tells him. If he’s a $12-13m a year player, they might stretch to that. It’s the current top end of the market. If it’s less, what does he do? Move on for a prove-it deal? Players very rarely stay with their original teams when they sign prove-it deals. They usually go somewhere where the scheme gives them the best chance to pad stats. That’s not a one-gap, stop-the-run-focused Seahawks interior D-line.
You might say $12-13m is too much and would be better spent elsewhere. You might have a strong case. Remember though — culture, familiarity and fit. The Seahawks love what Reed brings to their locker room and that is hugely significant.
What might they do on the O-line?
Some people will want the Seahawks to invest big on the offensive line in free agency rather than prioritise the pass rush. That’s fine, I suppose, if you’re prepared to say, ‘come and get some’ to the rest of the league with Rasheem Green and L.J. Collier as your two starting defensive ends.
You can’t throw money at every position. Given the Seahawks had a MVP caliber season from Russell Wilson in 2019, they ran the ball effectively and finished with a top-five DVOA offense — it’s pretty clear how they can improve to take a step forward in 2020. It’s upgrading one of the NFL’s worst pass rush units.
Their recent O-line plan also deserves a lot more credit than it receives.
It’s very difficult to draft quality young offensive linemen unless you’re picking early in the draft. The entire league — every team — is desperately searching for good O-liners at an affordable price.
Seattle has been drafting near the end of round one for eight straight years. They tried to go young towards the end of the LOB era and it ended very badly. More recently they’ve signed proven veterans with a lot of experience, combined with drafting and developing younger players in the later rounds.
J.R. Sweezy, Mike Iupati and D.J. Fluker are not Quenton Nelson. They’ve had their iffy moments over the last couple of years. They’ve also not prevented the offense from succeeding at an explosive level.
With major money set to be spent on the D-line, it’s highly likely their approach will continue. I suspect they’ll sign a veteran at right tackle if Germain Ifedi and George Fant depart. Someone like Jared Veldheer. He’d be cheap, experienced and provide a hedge ahead of the draft. Darryl Williams could be an alternative. That way they can look at potential early round options (Isaiah Wilson, Prince Tega Wanogho, Lucas Niang) but also later round options (Matt Peart, Alex Taylor) if needs must.
They’ve spent the last two years developing Jamarco Jones and then Phil Haynes. Eventually you have to give these players a chance to win a job. That might be your competition at left guard, with a veteran or new rookie added to the mix.
I’m not sure they’ll be much more adventurous than that unless an unexpected opportunity presents itself. That was T.J. Lang a few years ago. Seattle had a bit of money to spend and took a shot at Lang. If a similar situation emerges — perhaps for someone like Graham Glasgow — they might have a nibble there. But that might be the extent of their O-line flirtation in free agency.
The Justin Britt situation also remains an interesting one. They’ve not even cut Ed Dickson yet so nobody should expect a decision to have been made on Britt. It might depend on what happens during the legal tampering period and how much cap space they feel they need. If he goes he’ll need replacing. That could be Joey Hunt (who is an unrestricted free agent) or Ethan Pocic. It could be someone like Alex Mack if cut (and affordable) or a draft pick (Cesar Ruiz would be ideal but if not — Matt Hennessy, Nick Harris, Lloyd Cushenberry or Tyler Biadasz are options).
An opportunity at receiver?
This is such a loaded receiver class in the draft that certain free agent wide outs might receive a cooler than expected market.
(I don’t think that’ll be the case for the O-line despite it being a good offensive line class — the league just needs linemen too much)
There might be a chance to get a really good player who ends up needing to take a short-term contract. Imagine you’re a free agent and you don’t get a big offer. Wouldn’t you go and spend a year with Russell Wilson to try and boost your stock for 2021?
It’s something to consider. The Seahawks have been opportunists in the past. Wilson needs more weapons. There might be a value signing to be had at wide out.
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I’d prefer they sign Clowney, Fowler and then Jordon Phillips if possible. Phillips may come a touch cheaper than Reed and I believe he’s better at getting to the QB.
I think I’d prefer a vet RT. If Fant ends up getting 8-10 million, a reliable vet around 6 just gives that much more $$ to go toward the Dline.
I like Phillips as a player. Have done right back to Georgia. But again — fit, familiarity and culture. Reed fits. I doubt Phillips will.
I agree with Jordan Phillips as a superior option than many mentioned. He has been poorly utilized, IMO, whether it was Oklahoma, the Dolphins or the Bills. Makes no sense to me why he’s always inside. Height, frame and athletic ability like that should translate well to swing duty, which seemingly is what the Seahawks need. Phillips would also be a candidate to respond well to greater challenge from someone like Pete Carroll.
Quinn was such a fraud with the Dolphins. Maybe that’s why I’m skeptical. He looked great in preseason. Once the games actually mattered he was so narrow and easily diverted and often didn’t seem to care. Granted there’s a year subsequent. But I can’t shake those images. Quinn went from August fan favorite to October ridicule in a hurry. In Seattle I think he would be a case of 5 yards upfield beyond the quarterback, courtesy of a minor shove.
Fit, familiarity, culture.
Said it in the piece, said it in here.
That’s why Reed >>>>>>> Phillips
If they’re going to spend the money, I’d prefer they sign Clowney so they can keep the pick(s). And then possibly get one of Griffen or Quinn, re-sign Jefferson, and then look at Suh and/or McCoy. Maybe that doesn’t work out financially, but one can dream. BPA with 27, or do the typical trade back so they can get more picks and end up with multiple 2s, 3’s and 4s.
Again though… fit, culture, familiarity. That ain’t McCoy and Suh.
Resign Clowney
Resign Reed
Forget Yannick (my opinion: poor man’s Clowney)
Cut Britt, Resign Joey Hunt (IMO: held his own, wasn’t too much a liability, performed admirably)
Resign Al Woods & Q-Jefferson
Cut McDougle, Dickson, Kendricks.
Trade up for Isaiah Simmons, target Travon Diggs. No clue what to do with OLine from here, lol.
Your proposed additions to the DL:
Your proposed subtractions from the DL: Branden Jackson
I didn’t think our DLine played too bad, I thought our 2nd & 3rd level players played more out of position during chunk plays: specifically Kendricks, McDougle, Lano, Tedric Thompson. Ansah was an awful signing, but the rest of the DLine I thought played ok, Reed didn’t really get going til the last quarter of the season.
I say keep the DLine together, add a playmaker in Isaiah Simmons to replace Kendricks, or put him in hybrid box safety role ala Kam. If you can start Blair/Diggs backfield with Griffen, Flowers & Travon Diggs. Tedric Thompson to spell and if theres a shot to add Bruce Irvin and/or Brockers for veteran backup on inexpensive deals, I believe this D can overcome last year’s deficiencies.
The DL was awful, by any statistical metric, and the eye test.
DL must be a priority, not an afterthought
1, Agreed
2, Agreed
3, Not necessarily agreed
4, Somewhat agreed (although Hunt was bullied bad by bigger DTs)
5, QJeff yep, Woods not sure
6, No…no…no, you don’t cut McDougald…it would be one of the worst moves unless you 100000% draft Delpit or Dugger. Dickson can go, Kendricks is OK too
7, Nope, I’d be excited to have Simmons. But 10000% NOT Seahawks type move. Thought about it, and I wouldn’t mind, but I really-really-really doubt they’d go the big trade-up route.
Hard pass on Joey Hunt. He got thrown on his can at least twice a game. Literally hikes the ball shoved on his rear. Middle school technique.
NFL technique, high school size. He is a solid backup at center or a stopgap for another team.
Reed below average year might give Hawks opportunity to sign him in decent deal. 4 years $48 mil, $25 min guarantee kind of deal. Having played in system gives big edge over even better player. Since new player has to learn system plus coaches has to know how to use the player.
Clowney, Reed should resign and Armstead/Flower and Griffen/Quinn will do
there is no way are we paying any 4 of those players. we for sure wont have any cap for it. people need to be realistic with cap space. we cant just sign everybody lol
Thats steep price. Dont think hes worth it in our scheme for 12/year. Al Woods & Poona performed admirably for much much cheaper. Hawks are pretty good at getting run stuffing DTs for cheap.
As good as Poona and Woods are at stuffing the run we sucked at it as a team. One thing for sure is that we can’t stay at the status quo on the DL when we sucked at stuffing the run and rushing the passer regardless of how feel about individual players. Simply put, it needs an overhaul and ideally, Clowney is the one they should rebuild it around.
4 big name players might be a bit overkill, but…
They could manage cap:
I’d give Reed 3 year 12m APY, 36 total, 14 GTD, with incentives.
7/7-14/7-15/0
That is a really good deal. You can cut him after 2 years without issue and they could make the base like 10m APY with 2m APY for incentives
Clowney 4 years 23m APY, 92m total, 50m GTD
15/15 – 20/17 – 27/13 – 30/5
That is 22m for first year for these two.
Armstead 4 years 21m APY, 84m total, 44m GTD
13/13 – 19/17 – 25/9 – 27/5
35m first year so far
Griffen 12m APY 3 years 36m total, 20m GTD (he probably wants bigger GTDs)
8/8 – 13/8 – 15/4
43m total for the 4 player. Currently they have 44m, so it’s already doable, but by cutting a couple of players we could also make room for the draft and ERFA/RFA, IR.
With some tougher cuts (KJ, Britt) or re-structures we could also make room for a vet RT.
But I think it’ll be more like: Clowney, Reed, drafted guy, Armstead/Fowler/Griffen and cheaper option like Beasley, Ogbah or Shelton
Resign Jadeveon Clowney
Sign Everson Griffen
Sign Dante Fowler
Resign George Fant
See if there’s any money left for Jarran Reed
Mock Draft:
Trade R1-P27 and R2-P59 to Jacksonville for Yannick Ngakoue and R2-P42
2nd Round: (2 Picks)
P42: DT- Raekwon Davis (Alabama)
-by addressing the LEO and EDGE positions in free agency, get Davis to help or replace Jarran Reed in the middle.
P64: TE- Hunter Bryant (Washington)
-move tight end to compliment Greg Olsen and Will Dissly. Pass on this receiver class now and take Bryant instead
3rd Round: (1 Pick)
P103: OT- Matt Peart (Connecticut)
-long, athletic OT. Can backup both T positions. Had a good TEF score
4th Round: (1 Pick)
WR- Quez Watkins (Southern Mississippi)
-the Seahawks love taking receivers in the 4th round 😉. Ran a 4.35 at the combine, he almost has 33 inch arms even though he’s only 6’0!! Can return punts/kicks as well.
5th Round: (2 Picks)
RB- Joshua Kelly (UCLA)
-Seahawks like players who excel at the Senior Bowl, Kelly is one of them. Can catch the ball out of the backfield, runs tough, Prosise replacement.
OG- Mike Onwenu (Michigan)
-Seahawks like their Michigan players, big guard with long arms (34 inches), sadly didn’t perform at the combine but on tape he’s a great run blocker
6th Round: (1 Pick)
CB- Michael Ojemudia (Iowa)
-one of a small amount CB’s at the combine with 32 inch arms, he’s pretty physical against the run
Like it a lot, but there’s no way they resign Clowney, pick up Fowler and Griffen AND keep reed. I suppose it’s possible if reed and Griffen are one year deals, but even that is challenging.
Then I got to your draft hahaha. Cmon bro that’s wild. I would piss myself if this happened but this is far too many cooks in the kitchen on the d line not to mention too many expensive cooks.
I love your FA if those two are on one year deals (reed and Griffen) and keeping the picks to draft o line, WR, and a DT for the future.
Griffen, Fowler, Clowney and Ngakoue? That would be impossibly expensive, no way they could do that PLUS Fant and Reed. No way they could even add those 4 players.
Oops I didn’t mean to put Everson Griffen.. sorry! I was probably was thinking of different scenarios and I might’ve wrote it down on accident
Even then not sure there is a way we could sign clowney, fowler and Ngakoue long term, let alone then see if there would be enough for Reed.
Yeah, this is highly unlikely.
Remove Fowler, and add Griffen or Beasley/Ogbah and I can see it.
Clowney 22m with 14m 1st year hit, Ngakoue the same. Beasley one year prove-it rental for 7m. Fant 12m APY 3 years with 7m first year hit. It’d be 42m for these guys and that’s reasonable.
I like your draft.
Clowney – Poona/Danny Shelton (for cheap maybe) – Raekwon – Ngakoue starting line with maybe QJeff, Green, Collier, Beasley rotating in is a solid line.
Rest of the pick seem logical. I like the high TE pick, getting the best guy of the weaker class. Peart is OK, dunno much about Watkins, but I like what you wrote. I like Kelley and the other two guys seem OK
Yeah, I have to admit it is really unlikely. And I’m also not great at calculating the cap space that we have.
Nice writeup Rob! I dont want Seattle to spend big on the Oline. I think they screwed up signing the washed up Iupati rather than pay Sweezy last year, but I also think Haynes/Pocic/Jones will be fine at LG. Its RT Im worried about, but Veldheer would be an ok hedge. We dont need the 2005 line, just something consistently adequate.
Rob, Just to think, what would your rather have: clowney, but Just another another rusher like griffen, quinn or beasley, or pay armstead and fowler
I’m assuming armstead would be cheaper than clowney in this scenario
And both plans would be in the same ballpark of salary 35-40 mil
I would rather have Clowney due to his game wrecking ability. But he would need help because he didn’t have any in 2019.
Exactly. Players like Clowney who can take over a game when needed are worth more than players that might seem to be equally good or consistent The other thing to think about him is that he was playing hurt with his core injury. It is expected this has been fixed and he wont be playing jurt.
Pay the man and rebuild around him.
I highly doubt Clowney will be that pricey, or Armstead/Fowler that cheap…
Clowney around 22-24m
Griffen around 12m
Quinn no idea
Beasley around 7-11m
These bunch between 30-36m
Fowler around 18-21m
Armstead around 19-22m
These two would be around 37-43m
Although Mebane and Reed were different players, both were/are really good interior players even though they aren’t going to ever be an many (if any) Pro Bowls. Mebane was such an unsung stud. But he was surrounded by 3 studs on that Super Bowl winning team because Clem had come back from ACL to play well in the Super Bowl, too (in addition to the Avril/Bennett signings).
I’m hoping they can retain Clowney/Reed AND add at least one more important piece. Personally, I’d rather add Griffen than Ngakoue because I’d rather have as many up and coming talent type pieces coming in the draft and love the thought of three picks in the first two rounds. If they had Clowney, Griffen, Reed, and drafted Davis – I think that would be a big deal solidifying the starting four. Then if Green and Collier contribute – that’d be gravy. I think they could be okay, but not to the point I’d be willing to gamble on either of them as an expected starter (especially Collier, as I think he’s about the same age Percy Harvin was when he was washed up – and, yes, I know I’m overexagerrating).
If they had Griffen/Reed/Davis/Clowney… that’d mean they could still have both a 1 and 2 for anything else they wanted on the team. Maybe a RB and WR? Maybe a OL and LB? It would be nice having the option to take better players vs. taking someone they have ranked as a lesser player but have the massive need to take instead.
I know I may be in the minority here, but if they can do some good FA/trade work on the DL prior to the draft and if they have all 3 of their picks in the first two rounds… I’m perfectly fine drafting Taylor should he last to 27. I know Carson is in a contract year, but I worry about paying a guy with a proven (almost) decade of getting hurt every year big money to tote the rock. By the time Penny is 100% again, he’ll be in the final year of his rookie deal (though they could pay him big money and pick up his option; but they haven’t with Carpenter, Irvin, Ifedi…). If Taylor is gone, like he should be, I’d be happy with a trade down and making Dobbins their first pick (or a WR at 27 or trade down), which could maybe help with getting a pick or two to move up for Davis in the second round. It will be fun to see how this plays out.
I agree RB is a legit need. I think they love Carson with their hearts but I don’t think their brains allow them to give him 50 million guaranteed. I still think Carson holds out this offseason if the Seahawks don’t add a legit RB prospect. (Top 3) in the draft. I think one of Taylor, Akers or CEH will be a Hawk.
No way will Carson hold out. He has little to no leverage. You don’t hold out after suffering a season ending injury for the 2nd time in 3 seasons.
Carson has rushed for 2500 yards and scored 19 TD’s in two years all while be paid as the 121st RB in the league. Injury or not he has greatly out produced his contract. I love Carson but I would not feel comfortable giving him 50 million guaranteed. If the Seahawks don’t protect themselves by drafting a legit replacement this year they give Carson tons of leverage.
If Carson holds out, the Seahawks will laugh and start Homer, draft pick and veteran for a few games, then run Penny out when he’s ready. They’ll tell Carson he can come back and play when he’s dropped his ridiculous holdout.
Where did the number of $50m guaranteed come from? That’s not even in the universe of what Carson would get on an extension. Elliot got $50 and Gurley got $45 and both of those contracts will be disasters.
It’s what Zeke got but lets say 35 million or a top three salary. We saw what Homer and a vet looked like last year and it had a huge impact on their playoff run. I wouldn’t be willing to risk the start of the season and i don’t think PC/JS will either. That’s why IMO they will draft a RB with one of the first three picks to protect themselves and set themselves up for the future. Carson would have no choice but to use 2020 as an audition for his pending 2021 free agency.
I think we’re all brainstorming different scenarios, but this seem like the most legit.
They COULD add Clowney+Ngakoue+Fowler+Reed. But that would be an overreaction and could hurt the team in the long run.
I think they’ll add a bigger name (Clowney/Ngakoue/Fowler/Armstead) and either a mid-tier guy (like Griffen) or 2 smaller names (Beasley, Ogbah, Shelton, etc). Probably re-sign Reed or find a middle-guy for similar price and also draft a D lineman.
That’s not necessarily what I’d do. I’d probably go with:
Clowney/Ngakoue/Fowler + Armstead + Raekwon + Griffen/Beasley/Ogbah
We need a bigger name outside guy and I’m fine with another outside guy with potential (Griffen/Beasley/Ogbah/Green/Collier), but I’d like an inside force beside Davis (who might have potential but still a bit raw rookie).
Armstead can play inside-out.
Griffen/Beasley/Ogbah/Green/Collier doesn’t work out?
The line could be: Clowney/Ngakoue/Fowler – Poona – Davis – Armstead
One of the previously mentioned works out?
Good, we’d have two stud inside then
But I doubt they’ll throw that much money to the DL (probably around 220m in the next 4 years and around 100m gtd for 3 guys and 35m CAP hit in 2020)
For me, Clowney = Armstead + $3-5M apy
I recognize Armstead is a possible hedge against losing Clowney. But if he’d cost $18-20M apy, and if they’d be willing to pay that, then I think they’d be more willing to pay Clowney as much as $23M apy. He’s a superior player to Armstead, a great team philosophy/locker room fit, a known quantity, etc.
I’m not saying Clowney will cost that much. Maybe things don’t go his way in FA and SEA can put together a deal with more guaranteed money, but at an apy more like $20M. Who knows. All I’m saying is if Clowney signs with a team other than SEA, it’ll be for a record deal.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Ngakoue in a Seahawks uni, but I don’t think he’s worth the cost in draft capital (or cap space). I think I’d prefer Fowler at $15M apy than Yannick at $19M. I’d feel better about sending JAX draft picks if Campbell is part of the deal. Adding both Ngakoue and Campbell would pretty much solve the DL position group deficiencies, assuming they retain Clowney. Even if they don’t retain Reed as well, though I hope they do.
Otherwise, I like Griffen a lot. Him coming to SEA makes a lot of sense. I actually prefer him to Fowler, especially if he comes with a smaller cap hit. If they retain Clowney and add Griffen, they’ll still need some speed off the edge, and I’m not sure who’s available to provide that. Maybe Quem Griffin gets more reps. Maybe Okwara runs well enough at his pro day that he becomes a legit target early.
I said previously I hope they resign Reed. But I also want them to take a DT in this draft. My preferred prospects and their commensurate rage are:
Raekwon Davis — 59/64
Justin Madubuike — R3 (either trade down from 59/64 or trade up)
Instead of paying ~22m per year for Clowney, Sign me up for Armstead (~16m) and one of: Fowler (with a cold market), Quinn or Griffen (~12m) for a combined ~28m per year. With some cap space manipulation, that still gives PLENTY of space to bring in a starting caliber RT and DT.
And good point on Okwara. If they add Okwara of Gross-Metur, combined with Armstead and one of the other 3 pass rushers, with potential steps forward from Greene and Collier, and our DE’s are looking pretty deep.
Grab a DT like Reed or Phillips with our remaining space, draft Raekwon Davis, and bring back Al Woods on an affordable contract, and add that to Poona Ford, our DT situation is also pretty great.
To me it’s Clowney + Armstead.
If we want 2 big names, I think the second name should be Armstead. He’s more of an inside guy but still can play outside too. Fowler and Griffen and Ngakoue as far as I know almost exclusively outside guys.
With Clowney + Armstead and Green, Collier we’d have much more flexibility for the draft because they can play multiple positions. Maybe get Beasley for speed or we could go Okwara/Zuniga or Davis in the draft. Even if the rookie is not that good in the first year, or if Beasley is a bust with Clowney and Armstead I think we’d have a solid rush
Clowney and Armstead play the same position. You’re not spending 40m on two five techniques.
He was used a lot at 5T, but he can dominate at 3T too. I would put him inside unless it’s short yardage then I’d put him outside (and maybe get Shelton to play with Ford as run stuffers in short downs).
I know we need speedsters and a LEO would be cool and an EDGE would be nice, but I think we should also have inside contain and push. If we only have OKish guys inside that could hurt our passrush as the QB would just step up avoid the outside rush and fire the ball.
Ford is a cool guy and can help, but he’s not an every down DT. Reed is a questionmark and while I like Davis, he’ll only be a rookie.
I’d love to have Campbell, but if we can’t have him Armstead could function as a plan B to SOME extent. But that’s just my thought maybe I see wrong
You’re not paying 17m for a three technique. No chance.
He’s a five all day long too.
Rob, any chance they would put him opposite Clowney as an over sized end like they did with Red?
Not likely at all really — they’ve not done that since Big Red and that was more about accommodating Red.
It’s just too much. They need some speed on that DL badly.
OK, I accept that reason.
So pretty much:
Clowney OR Armstead
Is Ngakoue a 5T too right?
Fowler?
I thought we’re fine as long as we get someone to be an issue for other teams beside Clowney.
Who can we sign to play with Clowney and add speed?
Fowler, Beasley, Griffen?
No. Ngakoue and Fowler are both LEO’s.
Rob, I agree with you on the whole fit and family thing they’re trying to build. Every team I’ve ever played on or coached won big if that was present. When talent is equal, that’s the stuff that’s wins out. The opposite side did that is when you pay a guy like Reed, you have 4 seasons of history, and o my one of them suggests a player of that pay grade. I like Reed, but what did he do when he came back this season? They desperately needed him, and he was a non-factor. So yeah, I would Luke to see what else is out there. It’s the same with Ifedi. He’s tolerable being mediocre when he’s starting 16 games and cheap. We struggled in run defense too, and while the edge defense was terrible, the interior wasn’t special either and if we all agree that Poona played pretty well, and they still struggled to keep Bobby clean, then he’s not worth it. You can find a young guy like Raekwon or Hamilton to give you similar production and hopefully better. Again, it’s balancing price vs performance. He had one great sack year that still felt somewhat hollow. I’m all for Clowney and any of those guys. I like Fowler, I like griffin as a shorter term fix. I like Quinn as well, (how many times did he kill us?). Reed for north of $10 million per season? Eh, we can find someone for that role. Also, the Yannick thing is interesting, but I don’t want to lose a first and a second. I’d that’s the case, throw in Calais. Probably won’t fly.
10+ sacks from a DT is somewhat hollow? 😀
I think Reed’s biggest issue is the expectation after his breakout year. That was a crazy year…he was among the top3-5 DTs that year for disrupting games. I’m not sure he was able to practice last year, and missed a ton of games. Some players are rusty at the beginning of the season. He’s still young.
He’s probably not a 10+ sacks DT, but a solid run defender and could provide 4-6 sacks. That is A+ for a DT. It’d be more than what Clowney had (I know double teams, disrupting QB other ways, etc). I wouldn’t mind re-signing Reed if it’s for 13m or cheaper (I’d be mehh if it’s 13m, somewhat OK for 12m, OK for 11m, good deal for 10m and really happy if anything under that)
Clowney, Reed retained, sign Fowler. That’d be my ideal scenario. Keep draft stock and get some OL and te/wr. Reed I still trust to play well. Not a true 10 sack player like 2018, but i bet he can still get 5 to 7 plus good run d. I think resigning both and adding 1 quick rusher is all we need to get by. Green, collier, poona will be solid depth plus whatever else they add. Reed and clowney looked like good young leaders, let’s not gamble on an unknown replacing them. I’m ok if they cost a few bucks more.
I like it Tony! Fowler should add the speed off the edge that has been missing since Avril hung it up. I like keeping Reed as well, he should be pretty motivated after a down year. Would like to see them retain Jefferson as well on a modest deal, he’s got a bit of rush in him also.
This would be my ultimate favorite scenario. Allows for flexibility in the draft.
While Clowney is their priority re-sign, I think LEO is the greater need.
Won’t be surprised if they re-sign Reed, add Griffen OR Quinn, then draft best DL available (Davis, Okwara, Gross-Matos) with their 1st pick (35-45) OR a combination of Madubuike/Lawrence/Weaver/Zuniga/etc., in rounds 2 – 5.
It’s a nice Center class isn’t it? Here’s my preference for order and range of value for the group:
Ruiz — first pick after trade down from 27 (top 45)
Cushenberry — 64 or trade up into R3
Biadasz — 64 or trade up into R3
Hennessy — R3 compensatory or R4
Harris — Late Day 3
I don’t mind the value for Harris in R6 or 7, but I prefer they don’t draft him to be the starter. If he replaces Hunt as backup C then that’s cool. But I don’t think he has enough sand in his pants to be the starter. Maybe I’m wrong and he can make up for his smaller size with athleticism and intelligence. That’s why he’s worth the late Day 3 pick.
Ideally, I’d like to see Britt back, even if they don’t cut and resign him to a new/restructured deal, although that would be the preferred scenario. Retaining Britt means the OL maintains some continuity. Also, they wouldn’t have to rely on a rookie C for 2020, and they wouldn’t have to spend a draft pick on the position — unless they want to take an early Day 3 flier on someone like Cushenberry if he were to fall, or maybe Hennessy who showed nicely at Senior Bowl and the Combine.
I’m never very versed on league discipline. For Reed’s 6 game suspension for player conduct, is this the type of punishment that graduates if he does it again, like failing drug tests? Or is a conduct violation just something judged on it’s own in each instance?
Currently with the CBA in place anyway, I guess is what I’m asking. It could change if/when the new CBA is ratified.
But logic suggests the suspension would suppress his market.
https://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/NFL_domestic_violence_policy.pdf
It looks like a second violation can result in banishment from the league, which is understandable after the Ray Rice fiasco.
Thanks drew.
Wow, that’s quite the sword of Damocles. That could really suppress Reed’s market.
Can’t wait for more pieces to fall into place… great read!
Ezra Cleveland (OT – BSU) not only had the fastest 3 cone and short shuttle of any OL, but his short shuttle was the same time as Jalen Raegor, and his 3-cone beat him! I mean, that’s just crazy.
I know those aren’t part of the TEF calculation, but that is an agile dude at 6’6, 311. His TEF was still really good too.
Enjoy
https://twitter.com/GavinoBorquez/status/1225139149578964992
You’re welcome.
https://twitter.com/YahooSportsCFB/status/1198462136042901504
Although the end around didn’t go for a TD, you can sure see his speed and athleticism. Seems like the modern style offensive lineman, a guy who can match up against speed rushers, get out and make blocks on bubble screens, pull for sweeps to the opposite side, and get to the second level.
Wouldn’t mind at all if he fell to the Hawks!
I would take him in a heartbeat at #27. Which would be required, because there is word the Browns are heavily in love.
If that doesn’t work, I think we should take a deep look at Danny Pinter, Ball State, or Jon Runyon, Michigan as late round picks. If we draft to develop, both have the fire, the hands and the feet; and Pinter is nearly as quick as Ezra C. He is also a TE convert, having great pass coverage grades while only having his second season.
If we could land Matt Hennessy with a second rounder, that would be awesome.
To further the point, the only way you pay a DT is if they are a pass rusher, or an extraordinary run defender. Wouldn’t you rather just pay a guy like Danny Shelton and draft a young guy in round two? Spend the money on other guys.
A DT that pushes the pocket and disrupts as well as plays the run well is ideal. Its not just a sack numbers game. Shelton has shown no pass rush and the draft shows no real disruptive DT. So losing out on Reed or other top DTs would be a huge downgrade.
You’re assuming that Reed is going to give that to you at a premium price. He’s not shown to be that type of impact player, even in his ten sack season which appears to be a mirage. Sign a veteran, draft someone else. If you have to pay two ends and then him… just not enough mo eh to go around.
A mirage, or he and the rest of the pass rush struggled last year because opposing OL didn’t have to deal with any speed (Frank Clark) coming off the edge. Instead, they were forced to deal with the immense threat of Ansah, whenever he wasn’t injured, that is…
Basically, there’s an easy argument that they were able to double Clowney, and cheat towards plugging up any inside rush lanes because there was no threat whatsoever coming off the other edge.
A veteran WR option, brought in “on the cheap” is very likely. I can also see them go for a draft pick WR 2nd round (or so). A great way to fill out the roster and keep the money burn on the minimum.
We did a mock offseason and I thought the SDB community should see the final write-up. This Here is the write-up:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1h7vdPqKTdY91oACuUJM4eRJFaQgewdGYDm7AV3wS8eM/edit
Feel free to reply with questions and comments.
That was the depth chart…
HERE IS THE WRITE-UP
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EQ0-NZqsjLnY4wi1lt2ecSdaWU8-aZgDgWaXLxb4TkA/edit
1 year Ifedi for $5 million? Noooo way! Those contracts are going to be much much more expensive.
Dude is going to pull in 8-10M at the minimum. He has 1 game missed in last 3 seasons.
I am afraid Ifedi will get more than 10 mils in open market, and I want him back for 10 mils if we can secure the RT spot for next few years. First year cap hit for a 10 mils/ yr contract is only 3~4 millions.
Like I said above, 1 season out of four and people think he’s some star player. Could he still break out? Of course. Is he worth that type of money when we have needs all over? Not in my eyes.
Wilson won’t be there at 27 let alone 59.
The only way Ifedi gets a 1 year deal for $5m is if he gets busted for drugs or tears an ACL working out in the next 10 days.
David Moore – why extend someone for $2.5/yr for 2 years when you can just tender him for $2.1m for one?
Leonard Williams will get tagged by the Giants. If they traded a good pick for him and then let him get to FA they’re dumber than I thought.
Ethan Pocic isn’t eligible for the PS (at least under the current CBA).
For some reason nobody wanted Ifedi and nobody even submitted an offer for him.
The Giants GM thought that their DL was okay with Dexter, BJ Hill, and Dalvin Tomlinson and chose not to tag Leonard, even though that may be what’s more realistic.
In my mind its a good 75% chance Isaiah Wilson is there @ 27, but at 59 no way.
Why do u think he is gone by 27?
I’m not cha but he might be gone by 27 because he’s 350lbs, explosive, long, well built, terrific in the run game and he was one half of Georgia’s insane pass protecting bookend duo.
^^^^ Those reasons plus the market for tackles these days
Looks like a fun exercise.
So there were 31 other ‘teams’ of GM’s representing each NFL franchise? Were they each members of the respective fan bases?
I’m surprised you went with the Tennessee guy over Raekwon, even with the FA/trades you did, but hey; it’s all in fun.
Agree, this looks like a fun exercise. How does someone participate in a mock exercise like this? I’m also sure there wouldn’t be two end results that look the same, there’s just so many different possibilities.
We did it through the r/nfl_draft discord server.
My 6 for the pass rush are in tiers, 1 from each please!
1) Clowney then Armstead
2) Griffen then Fowler
3) Beasley then Fackrell
I’d prefer a re-sign of Reed vs going after a Phillips, Suh, Poe, McCoy; even with the knowledge that he will cost more.
OL: Keep (hopefully restructure)Britt, Re-Sign Fant, Ifedi signs elsewhere, veteran guard for competition (Ronald Leary?)
Very cool on the WR market. So many WR options in the draft as well.
Solid write up Rob.
For me, I think Clowney is worth top 5 $ but not breaking the bank $. Same goes for Yannick. Giving Yannick would be a lot though would like to have Calais in any deal we make if we have to swap a 1 to a 2 and lose a 2. Know its unlikely Chris Jones leaves but he would be #1 FA to target via trade if possible. Clowney (reasonable price) + Jones (worth for top $) + a Griffen & Vic Beasley would be nice. Q Jeff would be good guy to keep as well if we could somehow structure contracts to make this happen. A 1 and a 2 (maybe next year) for Jones would be steep but worth it.
Draft picks could go towards WR/OL then RB/DL. Dont think Reed is worth it because he is not a great pass rusher.
Option B) Would be a Clowney + Calais + Vic/Griffen + QJeff. Could maybe swap a 3rd for Calais or late 2nd at most. WR/OL/RB could be targeted with first 3 picks.
Really hard to predict everything because we dont know what these guys want to get price wise. I am all for Reed but under $10million. Reed/Yannick are worth it in my opinion but they should not get a market resetting deal. Should be top 5 at best. Don’t know what QJeff will be in the market for too. The hawks have a ton of options this year. Undoubtedly we will need some guys to be willing to take less like Avril & Bennett were to play here as well.
*Clowney/Yannick
Is anyone on here preparing for Clowney choosing to sign somewhere else? We would never know the real reason, it will be spun that he wanted to be closer to home, or bigger market, or someone offered him more $. I will certainly lose some love for PC and JS if Clowney leaves as I will take it as bad sign of the culture. I know that is a bit unfair but there’s no better team to sign him who has the $ and is in position to contend (something he said was a priority). There’s a bit of smoke when considering how Earl, Sherm and Bennett left. Hope he signs as he is a man amongst boys sometimes and it will be a sign the locker room is okay.
Absolutely how I would feel. If Clowney leaves to play elsewhere for below 22.5 mil/year, i will be so frustrated. If that happens, I will think, that either PC is delusional about the numbers in FA, or just a genuine liar. He stated that they would love to keep Sheldon Richardson, yet they only offered him 1 year/5 mil. They did not pay Frankie, although the situation was different, i admit. Now there is no excuses not to keep Clowney even for a very high price. I would struggle not to root for my beloved Seahawks to have 0 sacks next year, if we somehow will learn, that they offered Clowney 15-17 mil per year. Would never want to hear about any “priorities” or “they would love to do” from PC/JS has on anything.
I don’t see how you could be mad at PC/JS if another team offers crazy money to Clowney and they choose not to match and overpay to keep him. Every player has his value, and Clowney shouldn’t be getting market-resetting, highest-paid defender in the league money. Only a poorly managed/desperate team would give him that.
And Clowney’s situation has nothing at all to do with those other three. They were all aging, had serious injuries and beef with the team. Seahawks said goodbye and don’t let the door hit you on the way out… Clowney is young, a great fit, loves the culture here, and is purely a question of cost right now.
Eh? The Earl, Sherman and Bennett situations would be totally different. If Clowney doesn’t re-sign it’s because someone else offered him mega money. Otherwise he’ll be back.
I’m prepared but not looking forward to it.
If he doesn’t sign, it wasn’t meant to be and we correspondingly might be better off spending on different players.
I see that a lot though —- ‘might be better off spending on different players’.
Only if you think weaker players on 2-3m a year less is a good thing.
Sign Clowney, and Fowler. Reed???…If he goes, re-sign Woods and draft Davis.
Dang. I left off Jefferson, also the small matter of O-Line….sheeze we have a grip of holes to fill.
I really cannot fathom ANY team giving a DE record setting money who had 3 sacks the year before…no matter how disruptive he is. I think Clowney will probably get 20-22 million per.
I always love the big picture puzzle work. It’s too easy to say YES to every individual player but it’s to overall strategy that wins the off season.
I am one of those who keep bringing up the OL but DL comes first and the more I try to come up with a viable puzzle, the more I understand we are probably one key player short of the optimum.
The DL needs to improve over last year and it just lost it’s best 2 players to FA. Ideally we’d want to two quality players to replace what we lost (Reed, Clowney) and add 1 key player to upgrade that unit. With our cap situation there is no way we sign 3 of the 15M plus candidates even with structured contracts.
The answer to that is Rasheem Green. I think his positive curve so far puts him as the likely candidate to stat as the run stuffing, pass rushing 5 tech. If that is the case, the big money in FA goes to the LEO type (Clowney, Ngkoue) rather than the bigger Armstead etc. on a heavily sturctured long term contract. That should be the key first step in the rebuild.
The next step should be the quality DT. Resigning Reed or similar at around 10M.
I know that the above just brings us back to the 2019 DL but if Reed plays 16 games rather than 10, Clowney starts after a full off season with this team and stays healthy and Green becomes a 7-8 sacks DE – It should do better.
The next step is adding a rotational pass rusher from the 3rd FA wave, probably an aged vet at 6-7M to play on obvious passing downs. Add a run stuffing DT as they always do (Woods etc.), cross your fingers that L.J. could grow into the rotation and the work is done.
If we are lucky enough to get the above done at around 30M in 2020 cap space we should have enough cap left to sign RFAs, rookie class, IR and possibly spend up to 8-10M on the OL (Fant/Ifedi/vet)
The above would be a perfect off season allow JS to avoid the “double wammy” of drafting for need and make the best use of BPA picks in the first two days in a very deep draft class.
The only question where Rasheem Green is the answer is, “who is someone who can’t and won’t be relied upon in 2020.”
He ain’t it.
If he takes a step forward next season, great. But he’s shown practically nothing in two years and he needs to prove he warrants some faith.
We obviously disagree on it.
He kept improving, led the team with 4 sacks and shown potential. The team will know if he deserves that faith, we don’t.
Yes, I’d rather have anybody from your list ahead of him but I can not see how they get 3 top dollar players for that DL and if they can’t, the best option on the roster is Green.
But nobody has suggested they sign three top dollar players. They could sign two and then a cheaper signing. Or a draft pick. Or they could make a trade. And as I’ve pointed out a lot recently, you can structure deals to do whatever you want anyway. ‘They can’t do this’ is exactly what people would’ve said about Harvin, Bennett and Avril or the Clowney trade.
Either way, there isn’t a scenario where they look at Green as an answer. He led the team with four sacks?? That’s not a review of Green’s performance, it’s a testament of the problem overall.
He’s shown nothing in two years. The odd sack here and there isn’t enough. There’s no consistent pressure. Every time he’s had a sack it’s been a welcome surprise.
He’s just a player who, next season, he’s going to have to fight for a career. He’s not going to be a third wheel who they rely on.
This is another good reminder to all of us Rob, that teams can structure deals very creatively and make things that might not seem possible work out. So, they could actually resign Clowney, and add Ngakoue + Griffen if they want to.
While reading articles put out by a number of so called “experts” it amazes me how many do not understand how NFL contracts are structured. As you have mentioned countless times, Clowney for $20m + Ngakoue for $19m does not take up $39m in 2020 cap space.
We all hope PC/JS are prudent and make solid decisions on who they choose to add, but it should not be debated any longer that they need to add top end talent to the DL. Counting on Green, Collier, Jefferson, Ogbah, Suh, et all to improve the pass rush will not cut it!
Keep beating the drum Rob, the message is getting through!
Exactly.
And as I’ve said a couple of times too — with the new CBA, contracts signed today might seem extremely modest in 2-3 years time. So backloading contracts might actually be a great idea if the cap significantly rises due to new TV deals and gambling revenue.
Plus they will no longer be carrying contracts for Duane Brown, Justin Britt, KJ Wright etc.
So the opportunities are there. They’re not going to blow up their future but neither are they going to worry about a bit of dead money in 3-4 years time if it means they waste Russell Wilson’s window.
Want to second this Rob. Not many pundits actually mention that we can structure contracts to make.this work. Its shocking suprisingly. Without considering this it drastically reduces the possibilities that we have this offseason.
Thanks for dropping some knowledge Rob!
I agree with the overall point, but I do think Rasheem Green took a noticeable step forward last year, and at his age I think the team expects another one this season. Being battle tested that young with a still developing physical profile, he’s got a nice shot to be a dependable player at least. Not that we should go into 2020 relying on him.
He took a step forward from being anonymous to making the occasional play. Let’s not go OTT though and pretend he had any kind of significant or consistent impact. He has everything to prove in 2020.
Any great write up Rob
I do wonder if these are the 6 but can’t wait til next week to start to find out.
Trying to leave to stomach churning puzzle of roster building to JSPC
I’m hoping they just let Britt, Ifedi and Fant go then gamble with high picks/Jamarco Jones at C+RT.
Clowney+Campbell+Quinn or Griffen for me. Release KJ and sign Kendricks for cheap.
Antonio Brown seems to be acting his way back. If they can get him for a cheap next to no guaranteed money contract, would love it. They could release him the second he starts to act up with no strings attached.
Antonio Callaway might not be suspended for the first 3 games of the season anymore because of the CBA changing the substance abuse policy…
“High picks.” I don’t like it. I like high picks but I don’t like the idea of counting on players to step in let alone star in the toughest league. Only excellent physical specimens can do that.
Don’t want Brown. I think he’s neither stable nor reformed. That latest incident with the moving van isn’t weird, sadly it’s the norm. Reading about his life and his entourage, yes, that’s how he rolls in life. That’s gonna change? Dude has millions but won’t pay people. Fights a moving van driver over $4,000?!
Rob,
Have you looked at Marcus Golden possibly as an affordable hedge for the LEO spot if we can resign Clowney? He’s older (turns 29 this month) but he’s in his prime and has been productive in 3 of the past 4 seasons? I think he could be an older Avril type addition until we maybe draft Okwara or someone next year too develop. Maybe a 3yr contract with a smartly structured 1st year cap hit.
Love reading this blog and thanks for what you do for this community!
I liked Golden a lot at Missouri but not for Seattle. He has nowhere near the profile they’ve gone for and I don’t think as he approaches 30 they’re likely to show much interest now.
Nice write up Rob and I think you have summed up the situation nicely heading into free agency.
I think Cliff Avril said it perfectly last week when asked about Clowney. He basically said the Hawks would love to have him but not on a mega deal because they would prefer to have a solid rotation with multiple quality pass rushers rather than one star (Clowney) and a bunch of guys like they had last year.
DL
– Trade for Campbell
– Sign Griffen
– Sign Fowler or Quinn
-Draft Raekwon Davis after a Trade up in Rd #2
OL
-Extend Britt and reduce cap hit
-Draft Isiah Wilson at #27 or after a small tradeback
-Sign a vet swing OT like Veldheer as Rob mentioned to back up both spots
2020
DT: Campbell, Davis, Ford, Mone
DE: Griffen, Collier, Green, Fowler or Quinn + Rookie or Q Jefferson
OL Starters: Brown, Jones, Britt, Fluker, Wilson
OL Backups: Haynes, Valdheer, Rookie C or Hunt, Knox or Simmons, Rookie OT or Wheeler
I don’t get the infatuation with Raekwon Davis? I see him as a guy who looks good getting off the bus that has done nothing in 2 years playing on a loaded defense. He’s 6’7” and doesn’t knock any passes down while not getting to the QB. IMO the only thing your gonna get from him is disappointment he’s not Campbell.
He’s done nothing if you only look at the sack numbers. On tape you’ll see he anchored the Alabama line, absorbed double teams, plays with outstanding leverage, plays along the line and is a pain in the arse to shift.
But can’t guys like that be had in the 2nd or 3rd tier of FA or much later in the draft? I just don’t see his value before rds 3 or 4 & he seems destined to be a bust imo. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane if you will.
No.
And have you actually watched Davis play? The Tarzan reference is so far wide of the mark I’m starting to think you’ve simply looked at his sack numbers.
I’ve watched several full games on Davis and I didn’t come away too impressed. I do think he will be a solid NFL player but he’s no Campbell.
I looked up the last two combined years of Davis and Campbell in college. I found this interesting.
Campbell:
Tackles for loss: 33
Sacks: 17
Davis:
Tackles for loss: 8.5
Sack: 2
Again, after watching Davis I do still think he will be decent.
Fair enough but at least explain why his production numbers fell off the table the last couple years in a loaded defense that predominantly is playing with a lead forcing opponents into catchup offense when numbers generally inflate & at 6’7” why he gets his hands on very few passes? Just trying to understand why everyone is pounding the table for a dude with more questions than answers.
Try actually watching him. You’ll have the answers.
That’s a disappointing answer to a legitimate question but ok.
You just keep asking the same question, which I’ve already answered. Watch him play. Stop asserting opinions on him based on stats.
To be fair I wouldn’t say ‘everybody is pounding the table’ for Davis. He simply has that unique frame that the Hawks have been looking to for a long time. It would make sense to draft him with one of our 2nd round picks in my opinion but I too am not convinced that he will be a game wrecking/Campbell type of player at the next level.
Rob doesn’t believe you have watched much of him. Hence why talk about it anymore. You can’t just put up stats and not actually watch the film. There have been plenty of NFL players that didn’t have the best college stats but are really good players at the next level.
I’m simply asking why at 6’7” he gets his hands on very few passes & why we would use one of our top 2 picks for someone that eats up double teams & is hard to move off the los when those skills can be had much cheaper in draft capital or FA. The physical traits thing is part of the reason we are in this position to start with & I’m a believer in production to back it up. Haven’t seen him labeled as a game wrecker despite his poor stats as a pass rusher/pass defender by anybody. Not trolling here just looking for answers to questions I’ve heard others ask that have watched his tape extensively not just myself. Sorry if I offended.
The term you’re looking for is ‘box score scouting’.
Before trading for Ngakoue, I’d trade for Von Miller.
I mean I agree in principle but:
He’s not been “made available” yet
and He is still under contract so Denver has no incentive to trade him right now
They just traded for AJ Bouye to add to the defense. I dont think they turn around and subtract by trading Miller.
good point
Also, Shaquill Barrett should be ahead of many people on that six-man list.
Pretty sure Barrett is the blitz king. TB uses him properly. The Seahawks don’t blitz very often hence I don’t think he would be half as effective with us.
It’s well established he will be tagged.
I still think Beasley could be a low cost fall back option. Him and Ngakoue both have 32.5 inch arms and have the same amount of sacks. Ngakoue has 37.5 in 62 career games and Beasley has 37.5 in 60 career games. Beasley just played an extra season and missed time in 2017 and 2018. He will be 28 though when the season starts and Ngakoue will only be 25. Could they try and go rush the passer by committee in 2020 the way the Panthers did. They were second in the NFL in sacks with 53 and no one had double digit sack numbers. Just a talking point.
I just never come away thinking Beasley will ever have a really good impact anymore. Maybe he’s worth a 1 year rental and see what happens though.
I think Beasley would be one of the best price/value player.
He had the necessary athletic profile. He is not the answer to all, but he’s probably cheap.
And it’s not like he had 2 sacks last year. He’s a great reclamation project and rotational piece.
I’d rather have Beasley + Griffen for 20m than Ngakoue for a trade and 21m APY or even Fowler…
I’ll be fine anyway, but not sure how good either player is playing on a good, stacked defense. And how will they fit our culture. And what happens if one of those guys get hurt?
We don’t have impact players, but our depth is also questionable. If we get Beasley or Ogbah for relatively cheap (not as the solution, but as a puzzle piece), I’ll be really happy
It’s funny that every single comment focuses on pass rush. Rob’s article also suggests that we address WR through bargain-hunting in FA. I love that idea. We can then wait until the 4th round to pick a WR who falls through the cracks of this incredible WR draft. Are we interested in any particular ones? Obviously, if the Rams cut Robert Woods, great. Is DeShaun Jackson done? Any other thoughts on WR outside of the draft?
Phil Dorsett might be one to watch
Randall Cobb might be another. Was very effective in the slot last year and shouldn’t break the bank.
Rob, I re-listened to the ‘pre-combine podcast’ you did with Brandon last night. You seemed pretty confident that we would take a WR in the first 3 rounds, noting how the Hawks tend to tap into the strength of a draft. Do you still think that’s the case after the testing?
I’d like to see Taylor Gabriel as an affordable #3 WR. Return game as well.
Man, I would love to get Robert Woods.
I’m happy to see JS&Co have him on their radar. Hopefully, the pick him @ 143 or 154. He would hold down the RG slot for years to come. He is simply, “Country strong,” a must get in the draft.
“Louisiana OG Kevin Dotson is the highest ranked player on my board that wasn’t invited to the combine.
He’s a popular guy. He has private visits set up with the #Steelers, #Seahawks, #Saints, #Vikings and #Chargers. His Pro Day is April 1st.”
„As the nation’s highest-graded guard by a long shot, no other guard came close to the production Dotson had in 2019. He finished the year with a 92.1 overall grade, with the next highest-graded guard finishing at 85.4 overall. Dotson allowed all of three total pressures on his 411 pass-blocking snaps; he was called for just three penalties, and he also had the nation’s highest run-blocking grade by a wide margin. Dotson was his best in the run game, for sure, and routinely paved wide-open lanes for the Ragin’ Cajuns’ rushing attack. When rushing behind Dotson, Louisiana running backs averaged a whopping 8.7 yards per carry and 4.1 yards before contact — he was that good.“ per PFF. I guess that‘s why they like hin…
Also, he’s very strong, “Country strong.”
Just heard the best nickname for a guy in this draft: State Farm
They were talking about Georgia, and I thought… must be ‘good hands’ but I couldn’t even think of who it might be.
Then I realized they were talking about the QB. Jake Fromm – State Farm. Lol.
Does he wear khakis?
Can we all just take a moment to appreciate how badass a three WR set with Lockett, Metcalf and Jalon Reagor would be??
Here’s an interesting prompt Rob:
Who are the players (that could realistically be there) you could see the Hawks using #27 on?
What resonated most with PC’s comments for improving the pass rush, was the need to acquire a ‘True’ Leo, AND have a 5-tech that can play the Leo position, 5-tech, as well as moving inside, that would complement the Leo position.
As for the latter, out of all of the players available as a FA, and quite frankly even those that are not a FA, is none other than their own UFA, Jadeveon Clowney. His versatility matches perfectly what PC has sought for at the position, in his scheme. It would be a shock if he’s not playing in the PNW in 2020.
As far as the ‘True’ Leo slot, that comes from the blind side, there are (2) players that can fill that role and have proven this in their career: (1) Yannick Ngakoue and (2) Robert Quinn.
(1) Yannick fits that ‘True’ Leo position perfectly in Pete’s scheme. There is no dought that JS&Co will pursue Mr. Ngakoue, to the extent possible, to have him pair WITH Clowney in order to improve the pass rush. Pairing these two together for the next 3 to 4yrs would put the defense in the position to consistently reach the QB from the DE positions.
(2) It was a year ago that I had hoped that Quinn would be on their radar to fill that role for the 2019 season. Who knows what the outcome might have been, if they had done so. The knock on Quinn is his injury history. The same could have been said of Ansah, which I was all on board for signing. Quinn is still a productive player, which was not the case with Ansah. Quinn would be the target to fill that role, if Ngakoue is out of their price range.
Both players, Clowney & Ngakoue, could be on the roster in 2020. But, it would take some cost cutting to be done to achieve this. Some of these savings may not be popular, since they’ve been stalworth players for yrs.
If KJ & Britt can restructure their deals, then they may be on the roster in 2020, if the (2) top options for Leo & 5-tech are obtained. But, judging from the rumored link with the Jags, it is quite possible that JS&Co will strive to achieve that perfect match of Clowney AND Ngakoue for the next 3 – 4yrs, which may help them to get back to the SB.
I hope they do so, despite the necessary cost cutting required. Change is inevitable. We’ve seen this over the past few years.
Signing old injury prone guys scares me. Look at Ziggy and Iupati last year. A couple of vets with talent and potential (though Ziggy seemed more washed up than anything). I know there’s quite a few people wanting Quinn – but imagine the fanbase if they give him big money and he is hurt next year and the pass rush is terrible. Again.
The hard part about projecting this free agency period is the money Clowney and Reed are going to (potentially) get. That’d be two big signings right there. Except we know this Seahawks DL sucks terribly WITH those two guys. Maybe Ngakoue puts them over the top with a cheap veteran option alongside Reed and the hopeful development of the bad players who couldn’t even start on a terrible DL last year.
Bobby is right about Quinn and I was hesitant putting him on the list for that reason. He’s one hit away from a Cliff Avril situation. I included him mainly for his pass rush win percentage.
Unlike Ansah, Quinn has missed (3) games in the last (3) yrs. Obviously, there is a risk when signing veteran players. But, the production is evident as you mentioned him leading the league in win percentage.
He has a wealth of experience to offer the younger pass rushers, Green, Collier & the new draft picks, in the same way Olson would convey to Dissly. Some risk are worth taking just for that alone. Quinn still has gas,in the tank. And like Olson, he is still productive.
Dallas may not allow him to leave and this could be a mute point of consideration. He’s made a lot of money over the years. The one thing he’s lacking, like Olson, is a ring. I think he’ll jump at the opportunity if he gets out of Dallas, and Ngakoue is beyond their reach.
BTW, he’s a year younger than KJ. Quinn will turn 30yrs old in May.
People keep misunderstanding the Quinn situation.
It’s not about games missed recently.
It’s the fact he has had a serious neck issue for a while and he’s one hit away from a Cliff Avril situation.
Not in any way I’m making light of his health situation, but isn’t every player a hit away from Avril’s situation? All it takes is one play and their careers could be over. Lockette is a good example of that.
And yet, these players are willing to take that risk to be a professional football player. You have to respect what they do for the money they’re paid. Quinn has been paid handsomely over the years, unlike Lockette. If anyone knows risk involved, it would be Mr. Quinn.
Apparently, he’s been medically cleared to play the game of football in the NFL, which we agree is one the more violent contact sports to engage in. He’s a professional. He knows his limitations, and has been quite successful maintaining his back injuries over the last 4yrs without incidents that would endanger his health.
I realize that youth is on his side, but DK Metcalf is in a risk situation as well. His situation may, or may not be as dire as that of Quinn, but there is a risk. That’s a risk that all players take to play the game they love.
I’m sure if afforded the opportunity to sign Mr. Quinn, JS & Co would perform due diligence on his meds before offering him a contract as they did Olsen, who missed a few games as did Quinn.
Based on his production and the number of years he has played since sustaining his injury, he is worth taking a risk on him helping the team to get after the QB. Many other franchises have the same sentiment.
No. He’s already had the injury and he’s played on. Two teams have already bailed on him because of this. Kudos to him for playing on but people need to accept the reality here. There’s kind of a ‘Robert Quinn club’ among the community. Let’s be realistic about his health.
I have always enjoyed our discussions on topics like these. I’m not quite sure what you mean about a ‘Robert Quinn club’?
In my investigation of Quinn’s injury history, what injury gives you the most alarm of concern, his back surgery 5yrs ago, or his benign tumor operation while in high school?
Both are serious injuries to overcome, but he seems to have overcome those elements and still become a productive player.
I have no real personal agenda in advocating Mr. Quinn as a viable option, other than that he’s a very effective pass rusher, and his skills warrant consideration. But, labeling him as an injury risk that should not considered, based upon those (2) that I’ve mentioned, would be unfair.
I do respect your opinion on this, but not quite clear what you mean about “his health.”
Also, his being traded by the Rams had more to do with them going from a 4-3 to a 3-4, and not able to pay a LB the salary for a DE cost he was due to receive.
Miami traded a lot of good players in their rebuilding process, but it was not due injury risk. Over the years I’ve learned not to label individuals. I’m more inclined look at the results rather than anticipated conclusions.
I really appreciate your perspective, but not sure what you mean.
I’ve gone over this a few times now.
Quinn has the same injury Cliff and Kam had. He’s just carried on.
Some teams might be prepared to roll the dice there. But people keep ignoring the facts about his health.
Guys I have seen a number of senarios on this forum with the Hawks ending up with both Clowney/ Ngakoue. Folks, that is not being realistic. It’s not going to happen. Last night John Clayton was asked that very questions. Clayton said there is zero percent of the Hawks acquiring both Clowney/Ngakoue. Would it be awesome? Hell yes. You are talking in the nieghborhood of 40 million per year to get these guys signature on the dotted line. It ain’t going to happen.
Oh well if the sage has spoken, then that’s it.
I’m not going to repeat myself on this over and over again. I’m getting bored.
People love to go on about what they can’t do. And yet look at all the things nobody predicted that have happened already.
Agreed. It is possible. After last yr’s achievements by JS, I have no doubt that he could make it happen. We’re talking about a switch in cost back to the DL for the next 3-4yrs, and away from the OL & LB positions.
IMHO, local “professor” John Clayton isn’t usually right. I give him the contract stuff, but half the time he’s not even listening to the question.
Totally agree. Clayton is increasingly wrong about stuff. Tired of listening to him, frankly. Would rather listen to Brock Huard (egads!) who at least knows something about the strategy involved in playing football. While we’re on the subject, why can’t Hugh Millen answer a question in less than 10 minutes. I’m interested in figuring out what he has to say, but he has to “show off” his amazing range of football knowledge in answering even the simplest question.
“Let’s put it this way…”
(misconstrued ramblings)
And yet, last year, with less cap space, they re-signed Wilson, Wagner and Wright, traded for Clowney and added Ansah.
Re-signing Clowney and trading for Ngakoue is easy by comparison. Not a matter of ‘could,’ but ‘should.’
I used to really put a lot of value in Clayton, but he sure seems to have become disconnected with the Hawks IMO. I think he’s got way too many things going to bear down on the Hawks.
Last week I was driving and they had a Q&A where he mispronounced at least 3 prospects names. Confused guys with other guys. (Something to the effect of: Do you think ____ Defensive End would be a good fit? No, because they need to focus on the D Line and already have Lockett and Metcalf.
He’s tracking the CBA, all of the other NFL teams, XFL, Mariners & all MLB, NBA, Sounders, college football and basketball while trying to run a radio show & podcast. Respect for the amount of general knowledge that he has. Seems like he’s become a jack of all trades, master of none though.
I’ve been waiting because I think a lot of things will change with player’s new contract and if the cap goes up that would be good for Seattle to do what they need to this year for the defensive line. It change the landscape completely for this FA going forward. So I sit here turning those guy’s that may drop back in draft like a Trey Adams OT at 143. I like your opinion Rob what do you think Rashard Higgins WR from Cleveland in FA?
He’s an option if the market is cold at WR
I have a feeling that Seattle is going to love Zuniga’s upside. That 3.76 TEF score is nuts and his tape shows a lot of promise. I would love for him to be one of our first three picks.
I agree with this. I think he looks really promising. I thought he stood out more than his teammate Greenard in the games that I watched.
Seahawks were at Illinois pro day.
DE Oluwole Betiku 6’3, 249 lbs. Had 13 TFL, 9 sacks, and 7 QB hurries
4.62 40 yd
1.59 10 yd
32″ vert
9’7″ broad
4.26 SS
7.33 3 cone
Any number for arm length?
Can’t find it. Still lookin’.
He was the #15 overall recruit in his HS class of 2016. Graduated early and sat out all of 2018 with a hip injury.
He has a very interesting back story training in his home country to become a professional football player, that speaks of the grit mentality that they’re seeking. He’s one that I thought they would be interested in. Glad they’re in attendance. Judging from the film study that I’ve seen, he has 33+ arm length.
Agree that he appears to pass the eye test:
https://i1.wp.com/www.profootballnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Oluwole.jpg?fit=1200%2C801&ssl=1
What’s with Russell Okung? First he withdraws from being a NFLPA president candidate and now he isn’t even on the executive committee anymore. Seems strange to me.
meh
He filed an unfair practices lawsuit against the NFLPA as well.
Okung has always been a tool
I presume he declined the nomination because of the lawsuit
When I mentioned ULL OT Robert Hunt I also said their RG Kevin Dotson was very good too. Thought Seattle would like those boys.
Dotson has a private visit with the Seahawks.
Pauline also says that Seattle is showing interest in OK St OL Marcus Keyes
6’4, 315 lbs., 33 5/8″ arms.
That’s a big boy. I wonder if PCJS are salivating over Isaiah Wilson’s size…
Right! Some players you care not to draw too much attention to. Wilson is that guy JS has his eyes 👀 all over him, from a distance. I doubt that he even has a VMAC visit.
Imagine Wilson & “Country strong” Dotson plowing holes on the right side. That would be fun to watch.
Nice!!
He started in 48 of 50 games and keeps himself in shape by doing 90 minutes of Yoga twice a week.
https://www.ocolly.com/sports/marcus-keyes-relies-on-yoga-to-remain-consistent-leader-on/article_1072d6f8-0ef9-11ea-8b9f-1f09283fda7e.html
I can’t read it, but I like the title…
Jim Nagy tweeted about him way back when:
https://twitter.com/JimNagy_SB/status/1167237370510487552
Didn’t have great production though.
Shows how much we really don’t know.
The only film you can find on Kilby is old Hudl film from high school, and a couple of random Juco plays. Massive catch radius and seems athletic to me. Can he block? Can’t answer that one, but he could be a project.
Compensatory picks were just announced.
SEA get:
R3 pick 37 (101 overall)
R4 pick 38 (144 overall)
R6 pick 35 (214 overall)
Sounds good
I thought whether or not the cab was ratified was going to affect those…
So, Seattles draft picks as of now are:
1.27
2.59
2.64
3.101
4.133
4.144
5.155
6.214
7.248
Trading down for another 75-100 would be nice but it wouldnt be a big deal at all if we stayed pat at 27.
I don’t think they have a 7th, but overall not a big deal. Need JS to work his magic and get hawks 5 picks in the 3 rounds.
I bet they end up with at least 1 7th rounder. Nice to be able to draft a guy that they are targeting as an UDFA who might get poached by another team.
I don’t think they have the 7th Coleslaw. I believe they gave that up for Hollister.
Being reported we have 9 picks. They might be wrong I guess
Nevermind I should’ve finished the tweet lol. They were reporting 2 6ths. So yeah you’re right. Scratch the 7th.
Saw a report that Michael Bennett would love to finish his career as a Seahawk. Not sure he is worth the drama.
Lol. He’s been around now. Realizes how good he had it here. The winning culture, and Pete’s philosophy of letting the players be who they are. Of course he would love it.
I’m personally not interested. But I could see Pete going for it.
Whats the over/under on how many offsides calls they have if clowney AND bennett are on the team?
Exactly. Proven penalty machines.
Seahawks were at Seahawks’ pro day, per Pauline. Wagner, that is. (I hope you are thoroughly confused… 😁)
The main attractions were two Shrine Game participants, linebacker Cam Gill and defensive lineman Chris Williams.
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2020-nfl-draft-oklahoma-state-and-wagner-pro-day-reports/
I’m reaching speculation overload. I think I need to step back until at least that first big domino falls. LOL There are so many interesting avenues laid out here. Right now, I just want Clowney and an edge rusher on the other side to complement and enhance his game. Please get there somehow. We’ll work out the interior after that, methinks.
Good stuff by many here.
Just one more week!
Free Agency – Signing Clowney is the key to the whole offseason. Use FA to fix the DL
Trades: C Campbell is the trade I most want to see happen
Wide Receiver target: What about Breshad Perriman – great high point/deep threat that RW would like
Draft: Use the draft to get RW some weapons: Reagor, Aiyuk, Mims, at Wr, Bryant(TE), J Taylor, CEH, or Akers at (RB) in the first 2-3 rounds if possible.
Also Rob: Not sure why the Hawks have done pretty well with UDFA ( Baldwin, Kearse, Shead, Ford etc.) during the PC/JS era but maybe give us your UDFA Tier of Seahawk type prospects once the draft gets closer.
Awesome job Rob the content and info is second to none! Can’t wait to sign in every day during this time of year!
Thank you, appreciate you saying that