Monday notes: Joeckel, free agency & Sidney Jones

March 13th, 2017 | Written by Rob Staton

Before we get into this, if you missed the Sea Hawkers podcast appearance posted earlier don’t forget to check it out. The draft talk starts after 30 minutes:

Thoughts on Luke Joeckel & free agency so far

ESPN’s Bill Barnwell thinks the Seahawks overpaid Luke Joeckel:

Taking a flier on Joeckel would be one thing, but the Seahawks are paying Joeckel like he’s a solid guard, with his $8 million cap hit more than the rest of the Seattle offensive line combined ($7.5 million).

It’s understandable why there might be a negative reaction to this deal given his underwhelming career to date and recent knee injury.

That said, let’s put the $7m guaranteed into context. The free agent offensive tackle market exploded this year. Russell Okung, Matt Kalil, Riley Reiff, Mike Remmers, Andrew Whitworth and others all got paid more (considerably more in some cases) than anyone expected before the start of free agency.

People like John Clayton were talking about Seattle potentially signing Reiff on a $6-7m type deal. He got $11.75m a year from Minnesota. Apparently there was interest in a return for Okung. The Chargers gave him $13.25m a year to be the highest paid left tackle in the league.

If you told fans before free agency that Seattle would miss out on Reiff and Okung and sign Joeckel for $6m less — most would say ‘fair play’.

The Joeckel contract, in context of the situation, is modest. Matt Kalil was also terribly disappointing as a top-five pick and he too was injured for most of the 2016 season. Even he got $11m a year from Carolina.

Stephen Cohen points out Joeckel will be the 34th highest paid offensive lineman in 2017. More context.

Free agency rarely provides answers and solutions for teams. The Seahawks were priced out of the market for good and average offensive linemen. They move on.

They’re not alone.

Dallas, for example, don’t have the room to make major moves to help their defense. The Patriots have been active — but they’re willingness to give away Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins (plus potentially Dont’a Hightower) has enabled them to sign other players. The Falcons have been quiet, the Steelers have been quiet, the Cardinals have lost several key defenders.

When analysing Seattle’s one move so far — and the moves they haven’t made — context usually provides a dose of reality.

They will have to keep managing and developing this offensive line. It doesn’t mean they won’t make further moves in free agency or the draft — and it doesn’t mean they can’t or won’t improve.

Going back to Joeckel, there’s no doubt his career to date has been a let down. He would’ve been the #1 pick in a bad 2013 draft but for the sudden rise of the more athletic Eric Fisher. Joeckel was a technician, capable of handling stunts and deception. He’d worked in a pro-style and spread offense, protecting two different quarterbacks in Ryan Tannehill and Johnny Manziel.

Physically he wasn’t as good as Fisher and ultimately that’s why he went at #2 instead of #1. He was still highly regarded and a consensus top-five pick throughout the 2012 college season leading into the draft process.

It’s possible the lack of elite physical skills are too much of a problem to overcome and at this level, he doesn’t have any compensatory skills (mental or physical) to counter the deficiencies. Yet he has shown, even in Jacksonville, that he can be serviceable. A blocker who can properly identify a stunt? That alone will be a boost for Seattle.

There’s very little to lose from the deal. Here are possible scenarios:

1. Joeckel excels and you have a 25-year-old quality tackle with a shot to retain him as a possible core player moving forward.

2. Joeckel excels and you have him for one year before he signs one of those $10-12m contracts, giving you a third round compensatory pick on a one-year rental.

3. Joeckel is average but that in itself might be enough to upgrade the position he ends up playing.

4. Joeckel is awful or gets injured and you have no commitment to him beyond 2017.

This is a Seahawks type of move. He has a point to prove, something at stake. Possibly his last real shot at making a career out of this.

If they can turn a seventh round former defensive tackle into a $6.5m a year guard — they have a shot to resurrect Joeckel’s career.

What happened with T.J. Lang?

According to these tweets, Detroit technically usurped the Seahawks:

You have to have a limit. Seattle likely stretched their’s to get up to the $8m range. Who’s to say if they’d matched Detroit’s offer ($9.5m APY) it still wasn’t going to be enough? The Lions might’ve gone to $10-11m.

Getting into a bidding war was never going to put the Seahawks in a position to get this done. They have to move on. And they will.

Sidney Jones falling?

After hurting his achilles during the Washington pro-day, Tony Pauline believes he could fall into day three of the draft. That would be a titanic fall for a player who would’ve otherwise been a top-15 pick.

It’s hard to imagine why he would fall that far. Yes he likely won’t play in 2017. The injury could also linger or impact his performance going forward. However, Jaylon Smith and Myles Jack both only fell into the early second round a year ago. Smith is now having to deal with drop-foot for the rest of his career. Dallas still rolled the dice.

The deep cornerback class could work against Jones but is there a team in rounds 2-3 that would be willing to take a chance? His talent and attitude warrant that level of faith. He seems like the type of character that will be highly motivated by an injury/draft fall.

If he drops into round three, 31.5 inch arms or not, I hope the Seahawks consider taking him. With three picks in that round it’d be a chance to get a possible future star at a bargain price. Jones is special. This probably won’t hold him back.

Daniel Jeremiah’s big board

It’s difficult to read into these things. Jeremiah, in his final top-50 before the 2016 draft, ranked the following players far lower than they were eventually drafted:

Sheldon Rankins — ranked #26, drafted #12
Will Fuller — ranked #29, drafted #21
Taylor Decker — ranked #31, drafted #16
William Jackson III — ranked #32, drafted #24
Karl Joseph — ranked #33, drafted #14
Josh Doctson — ranked #36, drafted #22
Keanu Neal — ranked #46, drafted #17
Artie Burns — ranked #49, drafted #25

In his latest top-50, Jeremiah has the following ranked within striking range of Seattle’s pick at #26:

#20 Garett Bolles
#22 John Ross
#26 Haason Reddick

All three could/should go in the top-15.

Meanwhile Marlon Humphrey is ranked at #43, Kevin King at #44 and Obi Melifonwu at #46. It’s possible one or two of this trio won’t be there at #26.

What it does highlight though — even if these players go earlier than they’re ranked on Jeremiah’s board, the options are going to be really good at #26. Several players are going to be very appealing when Seattle is on the clock.

Veteran running backs still on the radar

Ian Rapoport mentioned today that Jamaal Charles is the preferred option in Seattle. It’s possibly no coincidence they’re meeting with him after Adrian Peterson, Latavius Murray and Eddie Lacy. Get a feel for the rest, then close in on the one you want.

The Seahawks are a shotgun offense these days. Charles fits that the best. Unless they’ve been highly impressed by Peterson, it’s possible Charles could be the player they opt for by the end of the week. Either way, they’ll be looking for value.

It’s unlikely Seattle wants to be the team setting the market for veteran running backs. They’d probably rather have someone else do it for them. Yet if the options for Charles, Murray, Lacy and Peterson remain limited — their value is going to be impacted as a consequence.

Melifonwu visiting Seattle

Aaron Wilson notes the UConn defensive back will take a trip to the North West. This follows reported interest and possible meetings between the Seahawks and Melifonwu at the Senior Bowl and Combine.

There’s no doubting Melifonwu’s physical talent. Learning about the man and how he fits into Seattle’s alpha-male locker room is the key to determining whether he’s an option at #26.

Seahawks meeting with Jared Cook

This is the time to find value in the (somewhat delayed) second wave of free agency.

Cook is looking for a new home after the Packers chose to sign Martellus Bennett.

235 Responses to “Monday notes: Joeckel, free agency & Sidney Jones”

  1. Trevor says:

    Thanks for the take on Joecke. Much appreciated Rob.

    Still hate the deal but at least you put some perspective around it to try and make some sense of it. I truly home he surprises me and comes into camp in great shape, wins one of the OT spots and provides some decent pass blocking. He seems to be a decent in pass pro but struggled in run blocking and that is the one area I have complete faith that Cable can teach.

    The part that sucks is if he does somehow turn things around and have a great year we will not be able to afford him next year. I hope in a situation like that if he is healthy, playing well and fits into the locker room that they work out a new deal to keep him as part of the core long term before he ever gets to free agency. If he sucks or gets injured like you said it is only for 1 yr I guess.

    • AlaskaHawk says:

      They will probably work him through mid-season and then evaluate him for long term contract. The deal only sucks in the context that they are paying Joeckle more than all the other five offensive linemen combined. But we already knew that who ever the Seahawks found they would be making more than the rookies.

      I think it was a good move and takes the pressure off finding another offensive line starter in the draft. Just fill in the gaps in the backup players.

  2. Derron James says:

    If Sidney jones honestly falls to day three, even though he doesn’t meet the arm length, I would still take him.

    • Volume12 says:

      That would be a steal down the line.

      • Del tre says:

        More than a steal he would basically be like and extra first in 2018. Plus if he somehow recovers by the playoffs we will have a crazy loaded secondary

      • DavidM2 says:

        Marcus Peters had 31.5″. Rob wrote a piece about it and pointed out that wingspan may be the key. I wonder what is Jones wingspan in comparison to Marcus Peters?

        Here’s how they match up physically:

        Peters:

        40 YARD DASH: 4.53 SEC
        BENCH PRESS: 17 REPS
        VERTICAL JUMP: 37.5 INCH
        BROAD JUMP: 121.0 INCH
        3 CONE DRILL: 7.08 SEC
        20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.08 SEC
        60 YARD SHUTTLE: 11.26 SEC

        Jones:

        40 YARD DASH: 4.47 SEC
        VERTICAL JUMP: 33.5 INCH
        BROAD JUMP: 123.0 INCH
        3 CONE DRILL: 7.02 SEC
        20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.28 SEC

        Both went to UW (now becoming the other D-back U).

        How could you not draft Jones if he’s there in the 3rd?

  3. Trevor says:

    I can’t believe Jones would fall to the end of day #3 as a Achilles tear is bad but many pro athletes have come back from that injury. Unless there is more to it that is normally not even close to a Jaylen Smith scenario.

    If he is there in Rd #3 have to think the Hawks would be all over it as most our DBs take a year to learn the technique anyways.

    If they somehow came out of the draft with both King and Jones wow we would set at CB for a long time!

    • Ishmael says:

      They can go bad though, plenty of players have returned and never been quite the same. It can really sap explosiveness, that’s why teams are going to be so wary.

  4. Trevor says:

    To be spending this much time with Obi JS is obviously very interested but also equally as telling is that he must have some concerns as well and is really doing as much work on him as possible. I like it! If he does not fit in the culture it does not matter how gifted he is.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I’m not sure it’s ‘concerns’ per se. Perhaps more that they need to do more work on him because he is a more reserved character and they just need to work out who he is and how he fits.

    • Nick says:

      What’s interesting too is that JS said the biggest mistakes he’s made in the draft have come from underestimating a player’s heart.

      Wonder if he’s doing due diligence so as not to make that mistake again.

  5. Volume12 says:

    Fingers crossed they do get Jamaal Charles. He’s not who he once was, but he’s still dynamic and able to flip the field with 1 touch. His cutback ability and fluidity have always shone through in a ZBS.

    • rowdy says:

      Agreed, he’s the one I wanted most this off season.

    • Trevor says:

      Agree Vol a great guy for Prosise to learn from as well. If he is healthy and has anything in the tank he could be a huge signing. Always loved his game.

      • Greg Haugsven says:

        He has missed most of the last 2 seasons which is bad but at the same time that’s mileage not on those legs. Them legs could be fresh.

    • Ishmael says:

      Well he might still come back and be who he was, we don’t know because of the injuries.

      I honestly think he’s the perfect back for Seattle, and behind Marshawn he’s been my favourite RB of his generation. Career leader in YPC, explosive, dynamic, good leader, good teammate, he’s as Seahawk-y as you’re ever likely to see. Perfect dude for Prosise to learn from, they even have quite a similar high-cut, upright, running style.

  6. nichansen01 says:

    If Jaylen Smith went round 2, Sid Jones is not going day three. Not a chance. I think the Jets take him early second.

    • 503Hawk says:

      The Browns are a likely candidate with all of the picks they have.

    • Overtime says:

      I think he goes at #32 to New Orleans. NO needs defense. As an NFI list player NO would pay him his signing bonus or about $4.5M but not his base salary. He would get a medical redshirt year in 2017 and would not accrue any service years until 2018. By taking him in the first round NO could spread his expected $8.5M cap hit out over 6 years because first round picks get five year contracts. NO has 8 CB’s under contract but nobody makes more than $1M.

  7. Peanut says:

    If Seattle some how ends up with both King and Jones, I´ll have an open house viewing every Seahawks game next season ( even though Jones won´t play) Two of my favorite players from this draft. Yes his arms are shorter, but Marcus Peters has about that lenght and look at him go! If he sits there in round 3, I´d sprint my ass of to that podium.

  8. Totem_Hawk says:

    Great work Rob…if the report that Seattle had the best offer on the table after TJ Lang’s “great visit” with the team then that is an EPIC whiff be the FO. Any half decent negotiator worth anything closes that deal right there. As good as our FO is at extending their own players they are equally inept at getting players to COMMIT to sign here long term via free agency..
    I totally agree with your take on the Joeckel deal. Seattle gets what they want and if he plays well he gets the contract he really wants next year- if he performs well..win/win…difference between Joeckel and TJ Lang-the Seahawks had more competition for Lang and chocked on getting the deal done. Hopefully TJ Lang has a great year and the Seahawks win the Superbowl..that is the only win/win for them with TJ Lang now.

    • Rob Staton says:

      You can’t just keep offering more money until the guy signs.

      • Totem_Hawk says:

        It’s not about offering more money until they say yes. It’s about standing up for your best offer with confidence that it is a win/win and saying while he is in the building we need an answer now. We have other players if you don’t sign we need to pursue. We are happy to part friends if it isn’t agreeable etc etc.but what you don’t due is present the best offer he had received in free agency up to that point and let him leave with your offer to goose a better offer out of his home town team. That is just flat out getting played..i love my team and I will champion them when they are right but when they make clear errors i will acknowledge that as well…the FO straight whiffed…it’s not the end of the world but it’s ok to call out a deficiency in how the organization operates too…i never played LT that doesn’t mean i can’t judge how good or bad a LT is..this argument that since someone has not negotiated a pro contract they have no valid opinion on if it is ridiculous…ppl blindly assume if it didnt work out the front office must have done great and they know best…i don’t subscribe to that especially after the series of free agents the last 4 years that come visit in person and then sign elsewhere…this is an obvious trend.

        • Rob Staton says:

          How do you know what the Seahawks did or didn’t say to him? You have no intimate knowledge of the negotiation.

          Next you’ll be saying they should’ve waterboarded him into submission.

          It’s time to move on. This kind of criticism of the team isn’t worth your time.

          • Totem_Hawk says:

            I based my comment on this thread today on your reporting that the Seahawks offer was the best he had seen up to that point..if that is the case they whiffed, it’s pretty simple…but you’re right this subject is worth no more time.

            • Rob Staton says:

              It’s not simple though. They made the best offer he received. Your implication is that they should’ve held his feet to the coals until he signed. You can’t force someone to do that. The Lions offered a last minute deal and Seattle didn’t get into a bidding war. They move on and so do we. You have no knowledge of the process in this instance. You don’t know how they handled the negotiations. So it seems a bit rich to heavily criticise them without such intimate knowledge. Let’s move on.

              • Totem_Hawk says:

                Look, it’s not about holding someones feet to the fire it’s about being prepared to respecrfully pull your best offer right off the table if someone “wants to sleep on it” i.e. shop your offer to see if they can beat it…that is called getting played…if someone is prepared to not sign that is fine and dandy, you pull the offer then and there and say good day sir no hard feelings…negotating 101…
                The Seahawks do just fine with 2nd tier FA’s and resigning their own players to extensions but getting top shelf FA talent requires having to have some sharp elbows sometimes not hoping you can nice nice ppl to pretty please sign with us.

                • Scraps says:

                  “negotating 101”: Yes, you know the basics, Schneider doesn’t.

                  • Totem_Hawk says:

                    Schneider is a great talent evaluator..but i do question his negotiating skills when it comes to non homegeown top shelf talent..

                  • Kenny Sloth says:

                    O K dude^

                    Who even says it’s Schneider evaluating talent ???

                    YOU DONT KNOW.

                    They have so many talented people working for them.

                    John Schneider is an elite MANAGER of those talents.

                    Its a seller’s market at the OL position and an executive doesn’t have the leverage in most cases to “pull the offer”

                    Plus it’s been said they made the same offer. He already had the visit scheduled. He weighed his options and made the best decision for him.

                    Sorry your little dream didn’t come true but no amount of projecting, lamenting, or criticism is going to change the ink on his contract back in the midwest.

                    Its like being surprised Marshawn Lynch likes being in Compton.

                  • Kenny Sloth says:

                    Like Do you not realize they’re paying Lang? He’s not buying a damn used car where those cheap ass tactics you’re talking about work

                  • DavidM2 says:

                    OAKLAND Kenny, OAKLAND…
                    (🤔…well, maybe he likes Compton too?)

                • Totem_Hawk says:

                  And lastly, when you play hardball and pull an offer it’s amazing how many times the other side will come back to you trying to accept the deal you pulled…and if it’s smart business you ask them “if we put this offer back on table are you prepared to accept it?” If they yes…you have a deal..it happens more than you’d expect…

                  • DavidinBellingham says:

                    I enjoy reading what you are writing, but you are making some assumptions. The Seahawks would have been negotiating through Lang’s agent in some manner, whether in person or not. If you have personal experience or can provide reference to support your scenario about professional sports negotiations then please do. It enriches the blog.
                    If I was Lang’s agent I would have him direct all offers to me and ask the Seahawks do the same. I am curious if Lang’s agent called and gave the Seahawks the opportunity to match or beat Detroit.
                    Enjoying reading today’s posts.

                  • Dingbatman says:

                    The main reason the Seahawks have not signed “non home grown” top shelf talent is likely due to the cost of signing the “home grown” top shelf talent.

                • Coug1990 says:

                  Sorry, but this is just false. I have negotiated contracts. Perhaps if the offer were in a vacuum, they maybe you would be right. Lang also has a representative that is also good at negotiating.

                  The technique you are talking about is if there is only one option. Therefore, the other party accepts your offer or does not accept any offer.

                  If the Seahawks pulled the offer and he signs with Detroit, what did it accomplish besides the Lions getting him for less?

              • Totem_Hawk says:

                And for the record Charlie Casserly was just on the NFL network and said as a practice if an agent and player were at his complex for a meeting in free agency and they were going to walk on his offer. He would reduce his offer or pull it off the table…so there you have it from a guy who has done the exact job..

                • Rob Staton says:

                  Are you just going to keep beating this dead horse until we agree with you?

                  As noted yesterday, you have no intimate knowledge of this situation. Your specific criticism of the team was unfounded. It’s time to move on.

    • Scraps says:

      Just because you know how a negotiator works in your area of work, doesn’t mean you know how it works in free agency.

      • Scraps says:

        I mean, yesterday you were prepared to say the Seahawks got played, assuming he went back to the Packers. You said it was clearly a ruse to get more money from the Packers. That was not what happen, at all.

        The Seahawks missed because the Lions wanted him more — too much, really. If the Seahawks “won” this competition, that would mean they paid even more. Did you want that? The Seahawks win at any price?

      • Greg Haugsven says:

        It almost seems like the Hawks sometimes will go straight to there top offer and say, here is our best. Take it or leave it. I like that approach. Every player should have max value, the teams that over pay is a reason there not good to begin with. It ducks to miss out on a quality guard but overpaying is worse.

        • Hawk Eye says:

          he wanted to play at home, he already won his ring, money was all going to be around the same.
          Can’t always compete on every aspect, Lang made the decision for his family.

          • Coug1990 says:

            From what I have heard, his wife had a say in where they ended up. All things being equal, she wanted to be closer to home if possible.

    • Darnell says:

      TJ Lang is a free man who can come and go from football facilities as he pleases; treat adults like adults.

      And who are these outside free agents that they have failed to get to COMMIT here long term via free agency? Off the top of my head Sid, Zach, Avril, Bennett, Hauschka, T Jack, Mike Rob, Farwell were all outside free agents that spent more than two years with the Hawks.

    • DavidM2 says:

      The good negotiator was Lang’s agent… Detroit simply has more cap space and Lang and company held on to get a better offer and took the money. Lang already won a Super Bowl, so money may be the more important factor at this point of his career.

      • Martin says:

        Tj Lang is good but not an all world lineman. He went to college at Eastern Michigan. He is from Michigan. Dude took his last contract playing for the home town team. It’s what ever. He wasn’t going to start at tackle so not sure why everyone is all up in arms. Outside of his experience, which JS said the line lacked what does he bring? I would rather pay Justin Britt. The Center market is still reasonable

        • Totem_Hawk says:

          Hey, i’m respectful of everone on here. I have a point of view that goes against the grain of what the organization does in thjs particular area. Hope you all have a great day. GO HAWKS!

  9. Frank5678 says:

    The Jockel thing is just so Seahawks, in a good way. High ceiling if you believe draft analysis a couple years ago and something to prove. Wouldn’t touch Peterson, just no. Don’t think it warrants much on that other than, not as good as Lynch overall and same age/wear.Oh yeah and he fumbles more than a toddler trying to eat. Charles I love in a committee situation/ change of pace guy, but would they throw that type of cash at a finesse back, with the desire to be the Bully’s moving forward? I don’t think so unless he is on the cheap, he did get out played in Kc in recent years to a x Seahawk fullback. Lacy is fat and lazy, no cecil to that kid at all, and then there is Murray, he’s alright but not more than that. If a Fornette or Chubb become accessible, I’d go that route instead, still love to get Charles for ten carries a game and five catches. I think we need to add a run stuffing physical presence at line backer so we can run a true Punch you in the mouth short yardage defense, especially crucial for Redzone in NFC west. Defense back next and fliers on OL and Rb after.

    • Volume12 says:

      There’s been what, like 3 RBs signed so far? I can’t imagine these guys are getting offered anything more than $2-$4 mil.

      • DavidM2 says:

        Would love to see the Seahawks pick Christopher Carson somehow day 3. He comps very close to Latavius Murray, although a bit slower in the 40.

        Christopher Carson (RB)
        HT: 6’0″ WT 218lbs .
        ARM LENGTH: 33 1/4″
        HANDS: 9 5/8″
        40 YARD DASH: 4.58 SEC
        BENCH PRESS: 23 REPS
        VERTICAL JUMP: 37.0 INCH
        BROAD JUMP: 130.0 INCH

        Latavius Murray (RB)

        HT: 6’2″ WT: 223LBS
        ARM LENGTH: 33 1/4″
        HANDS: 9 1/8″
        40 YARD DASH: 4.40 SEC
        BENCH PRESS: 22 REPS
        VERTICAL JUMP: 36.0 INCH
        BROAD JUMP: 124.0 INCH

  10. Aaron says:

    I really appreciate your positivity Rob! Been checking around Twitter, local Seattle radio and other Seahawks websites today. So many negative vibes from everyone on not landing Lang. So many have basically given up on the o line, despise TC, and think that the 2016 o line plus Joeckel is going to be another dumpster fire in 2017. You’d think that the Hawks already played the 2017 season, won 10 games, and got beat up in the divisional round on the road again. Such a defeatist mentality, that’s why I read your blogs and listen to your podcasts the most. Always putting things in context and always a glass half full mentality. Still think we need one more FA o liner unless we end up keeping Sowell, but the sky isn’t falling because we lost out on a guard.

    • Ishmael says:

      The Seahawks fanbase is essentially a bunch of spoiled toddlers these days. Anything less than SuperBowl appearances and Pro Bowlers on every line of the field is met with tantrums.

  11. Great piece Rob. Your doses of common sense always make me feel good after dealing with idiots on r/Seahawks and giant pessimists with lazy

    I am curious to find out if you read this article: http://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/3/11/14895468/a-survery-of-luke-joeckel-should-be-right-tackle … I did and I really liked it. It talks about how Joeckel’s best fit should be RT. That is he like a better Breno. But then Clayton came out in an article and wrote that the Seahawks see him as a LT or LG. I agree with your #3 point that even IF he is an average LT, that will likely be a big upgrade over Fant.

    Regarding your #1 point, why do you think the Seahawks didn’t tack on an extra year or two to the contract? I am talking about non-guaranteed money, a option deal or whatever it would be where if we like his upside we can limit it by having a deal in place to continue (pick up the option) or if we want to move on we don’t (pick up the option) and when he re-signs elsewhere we get a comp pick for it. I imagine it would be likely that if Joeckel stays healthy and plays well in ’17 he will sign a new deal in FA for $$$ we aren’t willing to spend. Yes we’ll get the comp pick but wouldn’t it have been better to have an option to pick up and keep him for say $8M with $0 guaranteed?

    • Rob Staton says:

      It’s possible Joeckel wanted the flexibility to re-enter the market after a year and the Seahawks were happy to accommodate that desire.

      • Greg Haugsven says:

        I really hope he works out but I cant help but feel it’s a J’marcus Webb type ending. Hope I’m wrong

      • C-Dog says:

        I think that’s very possible. At age 25, it makes sense for Joeckel to bet on himself if he’s seeing offers $5 to $6 Million less than his peers.

        • Hawk Eye says:

          To look at it another way, same age as Bolles, much more experience, although less athletic gifts.
          But technique and experience has been the o lines downfall, not athletic gifts.
          hoping it works out, a least as an average tackle

  12. Coleslaw says:

    1. Obi
    2. Tankersley, Witherspoon as the consolation prize.
    3. Sidney Jones
    3. Joe Mathis
    3. Vince Biegel
    Sidney Jones in the 3rd round?!?! I can see a trade up right after 58 for Jones being very realistic. I think they would have no problem giving up 102 or 106 and a future pick for say 70 to get a future star corner

  13. Volume12 says:

    FA TE Jared Cook coming in for a visit

  14. Robbie says:

    NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport reports free agent Jared Cook is scheduled to visit the Seahawks.
    Interesting, I wouldn’t assume they’d go after a TE in FA.

    • Volume12 says:

      It is interesting. However, they need another TE.

      • Volume12 says:

        Vannett is more than likely going to be your inline, short yardage TE. Jimmy is the mismatch or hybrid. Now they need to get that guy with size who can threaten defenses down the seam with some twitch.

        • Dlep says:

          I guess I get it but seems like a lot of money to tie up in tes esp w the draft class win so good

          • Dlep says:

            *draft class being so good

            • red says:

              Spend on Offense because if you don’t draft TE or RB you can draft a ton a defense in a draft year that has the most defensive prospects in recent history hell we can pick 3 or 4 DBs in this draft.

          • Forty20 says:

            1 year rental maybe? Cook comes in as the minor mismatch guy as teams scheme against Graham. You can still draft a developmental TE that way and give them a season to focus on a NFL weights/skills program. Someone like Kittle could probably come in as the fourth TE and replace Brandon Williams as the fourth TE and the special teams ace with his blocking skills.

            I think it was Atlanta this year that were overly fond of misdirection 3TE/13-personnel formations. Rolled out the heavy artillery to show run in short and mid yardage situations before finding Julio in a 1-on-1 match up. Graham, Cook and Vannett (and Baldin or Lockett) could be utilised in a similar fashion.

            • Martin says:

              I do remember in a game late this season maybe playoffs where seattle came out in a heavy goal line look with 3TE then spit out everyone and took the biggest mismatch.

    • C-Dog says:

      Pete loves those big athletic pass catchers. Interesting they are looking at him with such a deep TE draft.

      • red says:

        We were looking at WR Aiken his market is probably 4-5 mil apy if Cooks is around 6-7 apy could make some sense Graham is FA going forward can franchise him or let him go for comp pick and Cook provides some insurance going forward.

        • rowdy says:

          Cook was asking for 10 million from greenbay

          • red says:

            From pro football Talk two days ago.

            First, the source insists that Bennett received three-year, $21 million package, a “clean” $7 million per year arrangement with no incentives or fluff. (The contract eventually will be filed and reported on, so the truth on that specific claim eventually will come out.) The source also says that the most the Packers offered Cook was $6 million per year, and that included incentives.

            Ultimately, the Packers decided to pay more for the man they deemed to be better player, and to let Cook look for a better offer elsewhere.
            So why are there multiple reports to the contrary? With Cook still unsigned, it remains important for him to maximize his market. If the narrative can be established that the Packers viewed Cook as worth more than Bennett, maybe one of the other 31 teams will see it that way, too. Or at least something close to that way.

            His market is 6-7ish that’s why he is visiting

    • Misfit74 says:

      I really doubt we sign Cook . He turned down 21M or so from GB and he can’t block. We *kind of need help in that area*. Seems we could have just signed Bennett if we were going down that road, and Bennett can block.

      This class is loaded at TE. Maybe we want teams thinking we’re looking at TE at 26 in an effort to entice teams to trade up should Njoku fall? Maybe we’re seriously considering a TE in this draft, even if beyond round 1. All speculation at this point, obviously. 😉

  15. Trevor says:

    Jerimiah has the Hawks taking Kevin King in his most recent mock.

    • Dlep says:

      Yessssss

    • Misfit74 says:

      Josh Norris has King going at 15 overall!

      Did you see the latest mock from Josh Norris? Major love for Reddick, Watt, Bowser, and Kamara. http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/70242/344/mock-draft-iii

      • nichansen01 says:

        Wow, in that scenario I would take Obi all day.

      • Darth12er says:

        I love mock drafts, but I’m getting tired of seeing Cam Robinson mocked to the Hawks. Interesting in this one they have Lamp labeled as a center. Also, Bowser is slotted in at #32 with a noted comparison to KJ Wright.

        • HawkTalker #1 says:

          Did you listen to the podcast? Some interesting discussion on how many authoring these mocks aren’t really doing an in depth job of deterring team needs. Most focus exclusively, for example, in Seattle’s OL problem, so that’s all they mock.

          • peter says:

            Just read old walt’s cohort Charlie Campbells mock and he had us taking a center with guard potential in the third. Totally. The one spot on the line that was serviceable and perhaps good. Center. Sounds about right. And DT in the second. Sure thing, boss. Minus Pete’s stated needs of DB/LB/OL. And that Seattle thus far has actually drafted for their needs.

            Besides being a hawks honk it’s why I love this blog. Viewing how a player fits Seattle through known and learned observations and not just screaming out “THIS IS THE BEST PLAYER AT THAT SPOT SO TAKE HIM NO MATTER WHAT!” Keep up the killer work Rob! Cheers.

          • Darth12er says:

            Yeah, I listened and understand that part of it. Still, it’s pretty boring to see the same useless guy attached to #26.

  16. Misfit74 says:

    Great post, thanks Rob!

    Did you see the latest mock from Josh Norris? Major love for Reddick, Watt, Bowser, and Kamara. http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/70242/344/mock-draft-iii

    Also, have you looked at Derek Rivers (edge)?

    https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/derek-rivers

  17. LLLOGOSSS says:

    On the options at RB:

    I think Thomas Rawls could be a Pro-Bowler if he can stay healthy — and if he’s not hit in the backfield every other play. Something I always marveled at with Marshawn was that he could turn a 2-yard loss into a 2-yard gain. It doesn’t show in the stats but that’s a 4-yard net run. His uniqueness allowed him to cover for a lot of shoddy blocking, in my opinion. Nobody is Marshawn Lynch, and I don’t blame Rawls for not being able to do the same. If we can get him to the line of scrimmage, his “unique” qualities really shine. I think the coaches see that, but he has to stay healthy. Maybe he’s not a true bell-cow because of durability, but who is anymore.

    Prosise is a guy they are really excited about, and you can tell. Again, injuries. He is a Swiss-army knife, a chess-piece on offense whom they think can excel in a variety of alignments. (Imagine having Marcel Reece back, and rolling out an I-formation with Prosise, and all the sudden they both split out wide). I think they are really salivating at the expanded role CJ can have, and his potential impact on the game. Again, he has “unique” qualities. There may not be a player like him — or one who’s used like he can be used — in the NFL. Hyperbole? Maybe, but this is Pete Carroll’s team. We want to do it better than it’s ever been done, right?

    Okay, so we have two very intriguing players, but what we don’t have yet is reliability. I think everybody knows, and obviously the Seahawks know, that we need more options. The draft is “meh,” at RB, after Fournette, as Rob says. Free agency is loaded with starting caliber players; former stars with depressed markets due to age (Peterson), injury (Charles), conditioning (Lacy), or ineffectiveness (Murray), or some combination thereof. What a good time to look for a compliment to our backfield, really. What we can’t tell yet is what kind of role/how many snaps they want any of these guys to earn. In my mind, we will have a true RBBC next year if we sign any one of them. Do they get 10 carries? Or are they bringing in someone to claim a featured role? Or, are they going to let the competition decide who becomes “the guy”?

    The only player I can see unseating Rawls and Prosise as the “bell-cow” is Lacy. He has been that player in the recent past, is still young, has the body to absorb punishment (and ice-cream), and is a power player capable of getting the ugly yards, ala Marshawn Lynch. To me, he’s probably the best player available. Just two years ago he was the #1 overall pick in my fantasy league (and he torpedoed my season…). He’s also likely the most expensive. I think bringing him in might speak to a sea-change at RB, if he can earn it. Or, he could just be a great compliment at the right price.

    Interest in Charles surprises me, but I’ll try to understand it. To be clear I’d be happy to add him, he’s a great player. But is he the player that we need? If it’s RBBC, I see him as sort of redundant with Prosise — 3rd-down types who catch the ball well, while not being overly physical. It makes more sense to me to diversify the backfield if we are splitting reps heavily: let a guy like Murray have a shot at the goal-line or short-yardage, let Rawls get you there, and let Prosise handle passing downs. Maybe that’s too simplistic, but I feel that what we are really missing is a power-back. The injuries have to be a red-flag, especially for a player of his skill-set. Now, in terms of being special or unique, Charles may be the best of the bunch. His career YPA is the best ever, and interrelatedly, he’s a home-run hitter. His agility when healthy may be unmatched (to my untrained eye). He’s not quite too old, so Pete may believe he’s getting the Charles of old. I wouldn’t complain.

    Peterson is an attractive option to me, more so than others around the blog. He’s one of the greatest ever. He’s a power runner, which we don’t quite have. But, he’s old and recently injured. He has been counted out in the past, though, and proved he’s just that much more special than others in coming back. The word “unique” must apply to him too, with his blend of speed, power, agility, and healing. I think he’s a good fit because I don’t think we need 20+ carries from the back we add, he’s a power player with the ability to be dynamic, and should be relatively cheap. And if he’s the Adrian Peterson from two years ago, then just hand him the rock and stand back. Win-win.

    Murray is the type of player that I thought we might look into: a guy who has a niche. He’s a power back, and by now you know that I think that’s currently lacking in our stable. I think he could round out our group very sensibly, while also providing insurance in case of injury. He’s a good player, though not a great one, and probably not terribly “unique,” though he did run a 4.38 40 at 6’3″, 224 lbs. His SPARQ was 132.9 (!!!) and as I’m writing this I realize maybe I’ve mis-cast him… He is an athletic freak? I suppose the only reservation is that he hasn’t had the kind of success you might imagine from a guy who compares physically to Peterson, with a low career YPC. He’s worth an add at the right price though, and we could do a lot worse.

    I’d also like to mention that I think LeGarrette Blount could make a lot of sense for us in a RBBC. A 4.0 YPC last year isn’t great, but on 3rd and 2, that’s perfect. Again, I don’t think we need a guy for every down-and-distance, we need a guy who is good at what we’re not currently good at.

    Thoughts? Did I get it right/wrong? Rob?

    • Misfit74 says:

      “Something I always marveled at with Marshawn was that he could turn a 2-yard loss into a 2-yard gain. It doesn’t show in the stats but that’s a 4-yard net run”

      Charles was (is?) a master at this: creating despite poor~avg blocking in front of him. Another reason why if healthy he is the preferred signing of the RBs on our visits list. Great hedge against Prosise missing time, as well.

      • LLLOGOSSS says:

        Nice, did not realize that about him. He must have great feel for the LOS to do that at his size. Marshawn always did it with pure meanness and physicality.

        • Sean-O says:

          I’d rule out Murray & AP personally. I think Murray will want more than a one-year prove it deal & I don’t think AP fits what SEA is doing on offense (ZBS).

          I think a 1-2 punch of Rawls & Lacy could be effective. Especially in the 4th quarter vs a tired defense. With JC I think SEA could get the most creative. Him & Prosise on the field at the same time would be a nightmare for an opposing D. Can you imagine a LB trying to cover at least one of them? Be curious how he checks out physically.

        • Ishmael says:

          Charles is the career leader in YPC. He was a genuine superstar when healthy – comfortably in the top two or three backs in the league. If he’s still got juice, I’d start him over Rawls and Prosise and wouldn’t even have to think about it.

          I think you’ve got a good point about bringing in Fat Eddie as a bellcow thumper. Get him off the burgers and he can be very effective, and he does bring a degree of physicality. I’d prefer him to Peterson, who’s a) not a fantastic dude, b) really needs to be running from under centre, and c) fumbles like there’s no tomorrow.

          Murray is just a bit of a nothing player. You always think he’s going to be better than he is, but then… He isn’t.

      • Kenny Sloth says:

        That’s one of the most telling traits to look for when scouting college backs imo.

        The ability to break tackles in the backfield is such a valuable ability because it keeps you on schedule so you can stay ahead of the chains

    • LeoSharp says:

      Personally I think Rawls has a higher ceiling then Lynch as a pure runner. The real problem is he can’t play at that level consistently enough. What he was able to do against the Rams was incredible and I doubt Lynch would have ever been able to make as much out of so little. Too bad he hasn’t been able to do that every week

  18. nichansen01 says:

    Thoughts on Reyshawn Jenkins? We really need safety depth, Jenkins is big fast and plays with great tenacity.

    • red says:

      Box safety misses some tackles probably awesome special teamer in time. Kind of a JJ Wilcox type safety 3rd 4th round seems fit.

  19. nichansen01 says:

    Even after all of the discussion about other options… I want no one other than Obi for the hawks at 26.

    Special size, special athlete, you could put this guy anywhere, corner, strong safety, free safety, sam linebacker. I would love to see Obi blitzing as well.

    No way would I go with King over Obi, after really thinking it through.

    • nichansen01 says:

      How would people feel about double dipping at linebacker and safety?

      Depth is crucial in both those positions. Then grab your corner in the third as well.

      1. Obi Melinfonwu
      2. Alex Anzalone
      3. Shaquille Griffen
      3. Reyshawn Jenkins
      3. Vince Biegel

      I know this leaves out a high o-line pick, but there is literally no one behind the starters at corner and linebacker.

    • Darth12er says:

      Amen!

  20. BobbyK says:

    I want an EDGE guy. Perhaps a DT. At least one LB. And about 3 DBs. That’s a lot of wants on defense. So while this is a good TE draft, if you draft a TE – that means it’s one less defender you can take in a great defensive class and we just spent a 3rd round pick on a TE last year. I think the goal is to draft defense early and often. Same reason not to take a RB even though it’s a good class – sign a veteran to go with CJ/Rawls and draft defense, defense, defense…

    • nichansen01 says:

      First five picks should all be defense, in my opinion.

      • Kenny Sloth says:

        I do want an offensive weapon in the first. Preferably a back. Even if we do sign Charles. Collins and Promise and even Rawls need to understand what competition means in Seattle.

        I think we let the draft come to us at the TE position. Again even if we sign Cook. Vannett knew his place on the team last year was safe. Brandon Williams isn’t threatening anyone, all respect to him.

        I just feel the stakes were so low for every spot except corner and now the depth at that position is decimated too, according to most.

        Idk.

        • nichansen01 says:

          On the other hand if we don’t go all out on defense, guys like pierre desir and deandre elliot, who are nfl bubble guys, will essentially be handed roster spots. I am ok with tight ends not being pushed too hard if it means competitive linebacker and secondary play in the preseason.

          Overall importance as far as depth?

          Linebacker, d-line, Corner, safety >>>> Tight end, running back.

          • Kenny Sloth says:

            I mean yeah. Safety depth wasn’t great and is similarly depleted.

            You dont have to totally sacrifice competition to draft ONE offensive skill position.

            It’s not a good class for weapons late unless you want to draft a big old red flag.

            In my opinion

        • peter says:

          After giving a ton of heat to fellow posters, I’m getting ready to take some myself:

          I envision a scenario where Obi and King are off the board by the 25th pick, and JS calls up Cleveland or even NO. The old draft value chart with a move back could land them roughly a third, or a 4th and a 5th.

          With a deep dive to one of Rob’s mid season posts perhaps the run games doesn’t fall entirely on the Line. And Seattle takes my favorite back in the draft: Alvin kamara. A combine invite that I wish had numbers for Short shuttle and the 3 cone. But Jumped 4 inches less than Cmike, but 6 inches farther than him. A guy who tore it up in the Juco ranks, and had really good production carrying the rock for a third of the carries two years ago and half of the carries last year. Plus has good hands, can get up to speed quickly and isn’t a marshawn but no one is, is not afraid to go inside as often as outside. Played with a mobile scrambling QB against the best defenses in football not named UW the last two years.

          This situation to me still gives Seattle a chance to take Jarrad Davis as well in the second, Tyus Bowser in the second or third-Carrol Phillis in the third, Asiata a personal favorite of mine, Moton, Witherspoon a blog favorite, Luani, Josh Jones.

          Just to make heads explode:

          2. Kamara trade with Cleveland giving them a fourth and a fifth.

          2. Jarrad Davis (total wishful thinking but 52 might not be entirely unrealistic for a LB that’s a touch small, plus the run on db’s, plus the need for QB’s)

          3. Bowser

          3. Asiata

          3. Witherspoon…I’ll knock his tackling all day but the dude can cover.

          4. Josh Jones.

          5. Kittle

          6. Luani

          7. DT…honestly have not followed the DT’s closely this year.

          UDFA’s: BrIan Allen. The actual Richard Sherman Clone (ha!) John Johnson ( still super high on this guy to be a slot corner. Don’t know why just feel it in my bones.)

          • Dingbatman says:

            I agree with you here Peter. I’d opt for Perine over Kamara though. Be nice to see a big punishing runner in our backfield again. Also hoping for another 3 red in the trade down scenario.

            • peter says:

              I like Perine as well. Mostly goofing around on a scenario where Seattle fills it’s stated needs and acquires and Offensive weapon of some sort. The smallish elephant in the room to me is that Seattle’s Offensive identity currently hinges on the fate of three injured players, Rawls/Lockett/Prosise and a guy who has spent a good deal of his career injured, Prich.

              Willson was just an okay TE. Vannett is a total unknown at this point.

              I love Obi and King but it seems from the outside they are rising up boards.

              • Dale Roberts says:

                Agreed, my favorites are King, Obi, and TJ Watt. I think King may be gone by 26 so Obi is the pick because he can enable the 4-2-5 defense or even play corner. Watt could go to Green Bay at 29. I think our first pick must add to the LOB. In the draft scenarios I’ve run Willis and Bowser are available but the names that really make me smile are all gone before the 58th pick.

  21. nichansen01 says:

    Could we get a fifth or six rounder out of trading Kearse?

    Then sign Aikan along with a running back, use the additional pick to add another late round o-liner.

    • John_s says:

      Doubt it. I don’t think Kearse has that much value around the league. Plus you’re only saving 300k in cap space.

      If he doesn’t perform better this year I can definitely see him being cut as well as Lane

    • lil'stink says:

      Kearse has zero trade value. I think people underestimate how much teams value their picks.

      • peter says:

        exactly. Kearse is best off playing little and Seattle cutting him after this season. IIRC there is virtually no cap savings in releasing him this year. Plus he can still play. One of the hardest knocks I’ve felt towards Wilson as the QB was his odd need to keep feeding Kearse. More than likely it was the play design, or Baldwin being covered but after a certain point the guy was just a hindrance to the passing game. Sorry. It just was.

  22. nichansen01 says:

    I am thinking one of Robert Meyers or Will Pericak could make the 53 this year.

  23. Dale Roberts says:

    Rob, what do you think of Gerald Everett? His physical skills are extraordinary and he’s a formidable blocker. He seems like an excellent third round pick.

  24. CharlieTheUnicorn says:

    Obi is the guy at #26. If for some miraculous reason, he is not available…. the scramble and likely trade down will be on.

    • nichansen01 says:

      I really hope we don’t pass obi up. Can’t imagine a more perfect prospect for us.

      • Darth12er says:

        Ditto, make it so!

        • Greg Haugsven says:

          My concern about Obi is, where does he play? We have 2 safeties, he might be to big for corner, and he might be too small for LB. I’m not against the pick just playing devils advocate.

          • HawkTalker #1 says:

            Another interesting perspective for me from the podcast . . . Yes we have two great Safites, but, they are BOTH injured and the good news about them both at the moment is “they are walking”. I know they need to recover and rehab, but a little scary that “walking” is good news for them.

            Time for some quality back-up, rotational help. Also think Luani is a super value pick six me time mid to late day 3.

            • Del tre says:

              This is why i am fine with Obi and Tedrick Thompson, if we get Witherspoon and snag Jones with one of our 3rd rounders (i trust the staff to gwt him healthy, they beat the odds with Jimmy) and we have a younger LOB waiting and learning until the LoB retires.
              This is a great draft i feel like every pick has 3 people i would love for the hawks to draft and everyone fills a need.
              Go Hawks!

          • nichansen01 says:

            The answer, I believe, is all three of these spots. I could see him taking Sam snaps, nickel snaps, outside corner snaps, backup safety starts if Kam or earl get injured. He’d get a ton of playing time. But I think hybrid nickel (big nickel) would be his primary position.

          • Redhawk87 says:

            It’s been brought up several times here, but he’d be the SS/CB player in big nickel defense. He has fantastic speed, great athleticism and agility, while also having the size to carry a big punch. He honestly could probably play any defensive back position but ET3’s single high. No one can play single high nearly as well as Earl. Obi’s 40 shows he can stay with speedy receivers, while his verticals and physical stature show he win jump balls against giant tight ends. His explosiveness and size would allow him to hammer people in the running game as well. He wouldn’t play backup to any LB position, but he would see tons of playing time. Outside corner, Slot corner, backup SS are all positions of need and he would fill them.

  25. Hawkfaninmt says:

    Maybe time to start exploring the injury concerned discount group of FAs?

    I’m looking at you Ryan Clady and Dontari Poe

  26. Ukhawk says:

    Can see Jones falling to Day 3 as he would definitely be a high risk pick…

    From SI:
    Read and Recover: An athletes guide to Achilles tendon injuries

    ​Once the tendon ruptures, it is usually never back to 100% again. Even in professional sports, 36% of NFL or NBA players sustaining an Achilles tendon rupture never return to pro sports, and those who do usually take about a year before they are playing competitively. Additionally, players who do return typically have a decrease in their power of about 50% and only play for an average of 3-4 more seasons. These injuries also seem to be on the rise, with more than 16 NFL players rupturing their Achilles tendons in the 2014.

    Steven M. Raikin MD is one of the world’s most prominent foot and ankle surgeons. He is the Director of Foot and Ankle Services at the Rothman Institute, Professor of Orthopaedics at Thomas Jefferson Medical College, and Consultant to all four Philadelphia Pro Teams (the Eagles/ Flyers/ 76ers and Phillies).

    • Darth12er says:

      Ouch! Did not know it was this serious long term. Really feel for the guy.

      • red says:

        Lights out Merrimen had an achillies ruptue never the same guy.

        • Greg Haugsven says:

          Jones does have youth on his side. Achilles ruptures are usually in older players.

          • Ishmael says:

            Yep, but even youth plus NFL ‘medicine’ can still only do so much. It’s a really, really, nasty injury – much worse than an ACL.

            Wasn’t the argument with Jaylon Smith that once/if the nerve fired again he’d be good to go with no extra long term complications? And he was an all day top five pick, could easily have made an argument for him being the best player in that draft class.

            With Jones you know this is going to have some long-term implications for his explosiveness, it’s just a question of how much. I can easily see him dropping down into the late second/third.

  27. red says:

    Using NFL Draft Scout (CBS) big board as guide

    1. trade back from 26 to 33 the browns will want to hunt the QB3 in the draft here, pick up a 4th and 6th.

    33. Kevin King CB
    58. Taylor Moton OT
    90. Marcus Maye S
    102. Caroll Phillips LEO/Sam
    107. Eddie Vaderdoes DT
    109. Isiah Ford WR
    185. Jordan Evans ILB
    210. Brendan Langley CB
    226. Rudy Ford FS

  28. Ed says:

    Cook would be an interesting get. I would take a 1 year flier on a prove it deal. If Bevell and Wilson can’t dominate in the red zone with Graham/Cook/Baldwin, then Hawks got bigger issues.

  29. Hughz says:

    Just saw Daniel Jeremmiah’s latest mock draft. He has us taking king, but what I find interesting is Bolles goes to Houston at 25 and Reddick goes to Giants at 23. In this scenario do we move up to nab either of those guys or just sit back for the BPA?

  30. Greg Haugsven says:

    So much for Brian Schwenke, looks like he’s a Colt.

    • House says:

      I am curious if Schwenke was truly an upgrade over Glowinski or Ifedi. IMO, Lang would’ve been, but not so sure on Schwenke. The FO has talked about keeping the interior OL the same and the desire for Fant to stay at LT. That leads me to believe Joeckel is the RT.

      Best of luck to BS in IND…

  31. bankhawk says:

    Another great column and a really nice guest spot on the Sea Hawkers podcast too Rob, as Im just now catching up with that. Are these Montanans in any way officially affiliated with the Seahawkers UK crew whose podcast you guested on previously?

    One thing I did want to say, vis a vis Aarons comments above on how you set a tone that minimizes negativity on this site. I know all of us here at SDB are fully invested with concern that the Hawks O-line take the field with a line-up that can bring it with more a effective level of play next season. We may not be uniform in our vision of exactly what shape that will take, or how we get from here to there. But it is impressive that as a group, we mostly manage to keep negativity and acrimony out of our discussions, even when dealing with something that is a sore spot. And show max respect to others whose vision on the matter differs.

    I sort of started to cringe as I listened to the dude on the podcast conduct what at some points started to resemble a Friars Club Roast of Fant and Joeckle (who, after all, has yet to put on a uniform in Seattle). Just me appreciating the levels of rationality, civility and knowledge found in these parts, as usual.

  32. SEAhemoth82 says:

    I am honestly embarrassed with how some fans and sports radio personalities (not including John Clayton) are reacting in regards to not landing T.J. Lang, T.J. LANG!! Many are painting him as if he’s the second coming of Steve Hutchinson. T.J. Lang is a “major whiff” by the Front Office?! Go kick rocks. Over paying for a Guard who is coming off two significant injuries (ankle, hip) is ludicrous. Would the Seahawks be adding competition? Absolutely. But what about building consistency? The current group, most notably Fant, Glow, Britt, and Ifedi, have spent only 1 season together. One. Season. And now many want to tear it down and re-shuffle? Come on 12’s, some of you seriously need to check your logic (such as possibly moving on from Ifedi, I have seriously read that…). Success has made us as a fan base extreme spoiled in regards to results. One player, such as T.J. Lang, would not have transformed this line into a Top 10 unit.

    • All I see is 12s says:

      Excellent post

    • CharlieTheUnicorn says:

      I like the idea that they are trying to address a need, unlike some other years, in FA and the OL.

    • Aaron says:

      Agreed! So much negativity yesterday throughout Twitter, local sports radio, and other Hawks sites. Lang would’ve been great, but it’s not the end of the world. Every perennial contender outside the Pats (the only true dynasty in the NFL) are in a situation just like us. Injuries and o line has kept us out of a SB. Green Bay has had injuries, poor run D, a miracle comeback by us, and other reasons that have kept them out of a SB since 2010. Steelers have had injuries to Big Ben or Bell, plus a turnover on D that’s kept them out of a SB since 2010. Broncos are turning it over at the QB position. Ravens had turnover on D in 2013, and injuries galore in 2015. 49ers contended in 2012 but by 2015 got old and totally mismanaged. Cardinals went all in for 2015 and are now an old core that’s turning over on D. We’re in a similar position to most every perennial contender outside the Pats. Enjoy these years, don’t complain about not winning a SB every single year.

    • lil'stink says:

      I admit I’ve been as down on our OL and the decisions the team has made regarding the OL but yeah, let’s not give up on them yet. Let them gel, there’s nowhere to go but up. There is still a lot of time between now and September. I liked the idea of Lang, but not at that price.

  33. It seems interesting to me that Danny woodcraft would be the first running back in free agency.may get just might get as much money as some other backs and what leverage does the big name free agents running backs have these hmm not much really

    • Misfit74 says:

      Pass catching backs at an all time premium, I rectum.

      I’m hopeful Prosise is the key for us in that regard. Dude needs health. I wonder how Charles’ visit is going to go?

      I’m still smitten with Dalvin Cook, but even if there at 26, it’s quite possible his athleticism prevents us from ever seriously considering. When is the FSU Pro Day?

      • CharlieTheUnicorn says:

        AP has been in Seattle a few days apparently. Something might pop at the RB spot soon.

      • Kenny Sloth says:

        He’s a reported boozehound.

        While not against league rules, not my favorite kind of people, addicts.

        • Scraps says:

          Boozehound does not exactly equal addict.

          • Ishmael says:

            No, but it’s still generally not a fantastic quality for a pro sportsman.

            Cook has heaps of red flags, and his combine testing was pretty mediocre. I’d be surprised if the Hawks took him.

  34. Isaac says:

    Guys I’m on a mission to get rob on the Sirius xm nfl radio with pat kirwan. I am going to send a tweet a day until the draft. I would love if you all could band together with me to get this done.

  35. RWIII says:

    Eric Berry just signed a deal where he gets 78 million for 6 years. Kam Chancellor is the same age as Berry. There is NO WAY Chancellor gets a deal similar to Berry”s deal. So this is probably Chancellor’s last year in Seattle.

    I would be interested in signing either Jared Cook/Luke Willson at the RIGHT price. Also I would be interested in signing Jamal Charles and Brent Giacomini at the RIGHT price.

    • Kenny Sloth says:

      Eric Berry > Chancellor

      No doubt in my mind.

      He’s also the soul of that fanbase

      • Jesse James says:

        Well that’s one of the reasons the Chief’s aren’t necessarily in the running for a superbowl appearance each season. They put an extreme amount of money in one defensive player. Yes he’s an elite FS but all of Seattle’s elite olaymakers have taken less than they deserve to stay in Seattle to have a chance at a ring every year.

        • Kenny Sloth says:

          Eric Berry > Earl

        • lil'stink says:

          Who has taken less than they deserve to stay in Seattle? Chancellor, Sherman, ET3, Wagner… When these guys signed their deals they were among the most expensive for their respective positions. And as much as Bennett complained about his deal I don’t buy the whole hometown discount thing… The market for him wasn’t as hot as he wanted. Bennett decided to not sign another 1 year deal and retry the market the next year, and he regretted his decision. When he re-signed in 2014 the only team strongly linked to him was Chicago. The Bears were (still are) a dumpster fire and they supposedly weren’t offering him a deal that was substantially better than what Seattle gave him.

          • vrtkolman says:

            Exactly. Bennett got more guaranteed money from Seattle but the per year deal was the same as Chicago’s.

  36. Sea Mode says:

    In case anyone needs closure on the Lang thang:
    http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2017/03/13/tj-lang-detroit-lions/99139002/

    Lang said the Seahawks had the best offer on the table when he followed the team on Twitter late Saturday night.

    “I didn’t know Detroit was coming back with a counteroffer,” Lang said in an interview with 97.1-FM today. “When I left Seattle I was about 99% sure I was flying back there to sign a contract and Detroit stepped up and things changed pretty quick.”

    Lang did not share any details of the Seahawks’ offer.

    The Green Bay Packers, the other team in Lang’s final three, offered Lang just $21.5 million over three years with $6.5 million guaranteed, according to ESPN.

    […]

    And he reiterated that the chance to return to home was a big reason why he signed with the Lions.

    “Ultimately, really, Detroit made the decision for me,” Lang said. “They made me feel so wanted and so welcome in the facility. And obviously this is home for us, so everything, factoring in the contract, moving the family back home, being able to raise my kids in the area that I was raised in really went a long way for me and turned out to make the decision pretty easily.”

    • Kenny Sloth says:

      Shoulda made him stay in the office until they got a deal done.

      It was a failure to even let him walk out without pen on paper.

      John Schneider is a novice at negotiating. You gotta play hard ball JS

      I would know.

      • vrtkolman says:

        JS wants players that really, really want to be in Seattle. He would rather Lang go home and be 100% certain he wants to be part of the team rather than sign now and regret it later. It really partners well with Pete’s “All in” culture.

        Also, this is just baseless speculation but I think the perception of the city of Seattle is a negative in the recruiting process. How often do players bring their wives on recruiting trips? It happened with Lang and Jared Allen. I live in Seattle and love it, but there is still a negative perception of the weather and the “hippie” culture. The culture shock might be too much for some of these guys and their families.

        • Sea Mode says:

          Guess Kenny should have used a sarcasm font…

        • AlaskaHawk says:

          It would help if commentators would stop calling it south Alaska. It isn’t Alaska – which starts roughly 700 miles north. The same distance as Seattle to northern California. So why not call it northern California? It has about the same meaning.

        • peter says:

          I get what your saying with Kris ‘sunshine’ dielman. But I’m from Seattle, lived in MPLS (loved it BTW). I think if there was any culture shock with Allen it was that Seattle looks and feels like a big city compared to MPLS. As for terrible weather, having lived all over, I’ll take rain over brutal cold that you can’t even be outside in.

          But really I think the Lang thing is just super simple. Quality of life. If you’re going t get paid basically the same anywhere why not play back at home? People talk about chasing rings but is Seattle really closer to winning a Superbowl then Detroit. Not if you look at last years performance. If I had to guess the ‘chase a ring,’ thing applies to only one team in football: The Patriots.

      • Sea Mode says:

        My thoughts exactly! jk, lol…

        As much as I would have liked his veteran leadership and Pro Bowl play from last year, a team has to decide its max price before going into negotiations and stick to it. It sounds like they did just that, put on a great reception, and Detroit simply decided to overpay. Not much one can do about that. They simply outbid us.

        The main point that consoles me in the end is that GB, the team who has known him for years, was not eager to bring him back. That says a lot.

        Interesting remarks as well from him as he even took a couple shots at GB for always asking in-house players to take discounts:

        “I think just throughout the years they were able to get some guys back in town because they used the whole, we’re good, we’re competitive, we compete for championships every year. Do you want to play with the best quarterback in the NFL-type thing, you’re going to have to take a little less money, and I think it just kind of wore some guys out the last couple years and watching guys leave,” Lang said. “But it was a luxury that for a long time they were able to have. And they’re still going to be fine, they’re still going to compete, they’re still going to be a hell of a team, but it is what it is. It’s just a business and the older you get, the more you play, the more you understand it.”

      • sdcoug says:

        Come on lol, you don’t have to be condescending of other people’s take. Everybody’s entitled to their opinion

  37. Sea Mode says:

    New Kamara 2016 highlights up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSJ39jsZSxg
    (Too bad it doesn’t include pass catching though)

    And for all you Zach Cunningham fans out there, pay attention to the very first play in the highlights.

    • McGruff says:

      Haven’t scouted yet on Kamara, and high videos are just that . . . But based on those highlights . . . Great vision and balance and good lateral agility to makes shifts without losing speed. His top speed isn’t elite, but he 8s patient and has good acceleration through holes.

      I have to watch more, but he’s on my list.

  38. Logan Lynch says:

    Not a personal attack on anyone, but I really wish people would stop comparing Lacy to Lynch. Totally different styles in my opinion. They’re both powerful runners sure, but Lynch’s lateral quickness and cutting ability was unreal. Lacy is more of a straight line bruiser who takes time to get up to speed. I think a better comp for him is Marion Barber. He had some great years, but ultimately a short career due to his punishing style. I see a similar thing for Lacy. Plus, Marshawn has a much better last name ;).

    I’m not sure how I would feel about Lacy on SEA just due to the fact that the SEA offensive line may not give him the holes that GB did. If you can hit Lacy in the backfield, he generally goes down right away. Let him build up some steam and hit the hole, however, and you’re in trouble.

    • McGruff says:

      Lacy is to Lynch as Roethlis berger is to Wilson . . . Both are hard to get on the ground, but for different reasons. That is where the comparison is . . . Both Lynch and Lacy get yards after contact. They get it differently, but the still get it.

      • Logan Lynch says:

        Agreed, it just seems like a lazy comp when there are other ones available that match up better with the player’s style. For example, Fran Tarkenton to Wilson as opposed to Roethlisberger if we’re speaking strictly about their ability to keep plays alive, i.e. scrambling ability.

        Small point, I know, but Lynch was literally a generational talent whereas Lacy is JAG at the moment.

        • McGruff says:

          Lacy is the back I want, not because he is what Lynch was, but because he gives us a little of what Lynch gave, a guy who can take a punch and keep on moving. Lacy is one of the top backs over his career in yards after contact, after that what we need.

          • Logan Lynch says:

            Congrats man, you got your guy!

            Can’t say I fault them, of the backs available he probably has the most upside and can hopefully bull his way through the 3 defenders that will hit him in the backfield.

    • AlaskaHawk says:

      Can we just retire the Lynch comparisons? The only player that I would compare with Lynch was someone like Earl Campbell. If the running back can’t carry 2-4 defensive men with him downfield = then they don’t meet the minimum bar for comparisons.

  39. Reggie Regg says:

    Lang has been playing for 9 seasons and all 9 were in the same system on the same team. You can’t tell me that one of Ifedi Fant and Britt won’t be better than Lang 5 years from now. Let these guys gel and get it together! How good was Lang year 1 year 2??

  40. AlaskaHawk says:

    I really enjoyed the broadcast. I wish I had written down some of the memorable lines that were said. Fun to listen to a couple guys who think like I do about offensive line – the heck with metrics, I just want someone who can block.

    They have Joeckle pegged as a left tackle. If he is healthy he should be able to take that position, but then health is always the big question. What will happen to Fant? Well maybe they will try him in Gilliams spot. Or maybe they will continue using him at left tackle. The offensive line players and positions has been the biggest puzzle and challenge of the last two years. Followed by running backs.

    • Sea Mode says:

      I don’t buy the report that they have Joeckel pegged at LT. Not sure where he got that from. I think Joeckel will compete at RT.

  41. Sea Mode says:

    Here’s a DE/OLB with 4.18 shuttle at Montana Pro Day and guess what, the Hawks were putting him through drills:

    “Defensive end Caleb Kidder measured 6050/269 pounds, timed 4.72s in the forty (including a 10 yard split of 1.69s), touched 33 inches in the vertical, 8-foot-9 in the broad jump and completed 30 reps on the bench. His other marks included a three cone time of 6.91s and 4.18s in the short shuttle, both solid marks. Kidder looked solid in defensive line and linebacker drills. The Kansas City Chiefs and Seattle Seahawks put him through a battery of drills, asking Kidder to backpedal and move in space. Kidder also met with the Green Bay Packers today.”

    http://draftanalyst.com/pro-day-march-13-updates-wakealbany-stminnesotamontana

  42. Sea Mode says:

    @RapSheet

    Former #Chiefs RB Jamaal Charles, who was scheduled to visit the #Seahawks this week, is still visiting tomorrow. That hasn’t changed.

    9:21 AM – 14 Mar 2017

  43. nichansen01 says:

    I love the Lacy signing. Low risk high reward. If the Seahawks coaches can convince him to keep his weight right, he can be a special back for us. He can be punishing.

    • nichansen01 says:

      Also not too much tread on the tires like Charles and Peterson.

    • CHawk Talker Eric says:

      Agreed nichansen. Of the FA RBs available and in which SEA showed interest, he has the most upside and juice left in his tank.

      His price isn’t as cheap as some of us might have hoped, but it’s strong incentive for him to continue his resurgence (hopefully injury free). Also, he has ability to become “Lynch lite” for SEA.

      Nice pick up we should all be happy about this one.

    • McGruff says:

      Here’s the deal, the best thing the Seahawks have to offer Alcy is the willingness to let a lacy be Lacy. If he can be fat and effective, let him be fat.

  44. Sea Mode says:

    They made Lacy now the 9th-highest paid RB. Guess they really wanted him. Missing on one Packer leads to signing another…

    • vrtkolman says:

      The Pack wanted him too –

      Tom Pelissero
      @TomPelissero

      #Packers wanted Eddie Lacy back. On visits, he gave the impression he wanted to go elsewhere. If healthy, could be a monster for #Seahawks.

      My understanding is that he wasn’t used right in Green Bay’s offense. They ran him on a lot of sweeps and such. He was actually running VERY well last year, at 5 YPC before ankle injuries slowed him down. I’m sure that was related to his weight as well. I love the one year contract, forces him to bring it this year.

    • Spirite Seahawk says:

      If memory serves wasnt he taken 1 pick before Michael in R2?

      One wonders what would have happened if the picks had been reversed.

  45. Spirite Seahawk says:

    Looks like they didnt let Eddie Lacy leave the building. It seems their tactics can get it done sometimes 🙂

  46. teejmo says:

    Eddie Lacy signed for a year.

  47. nichansen01 says:

    Lacy, if he gets his weight under control, is the starter. CJ Prosise will be the pass catching, pass protecting, third down back and Rawls will get his share of carries as well to change up the pace from Lacy. Alex Collins will come in in case of injury, and will probably also be used to the passing game now and then. Could be a very effective backfield, barring another rash of injuries. Rawls is good but can’t feature for a year, needs to be a support piece.

  48. CHawk Talker Eric says:

    @ProFootballTalk:

    Either the Seahawks picked Eddie Lacy over Adrian Peterson, or (more likely) Adrian declined to accept whatever they offered Lacy.

    We’ll probably never know for sure, but I don’t think so.

    Also, Adam Schefter reports Charles still on schedule to visit SEA.

  49. CHawk Talker Eric says:

    @SheilKapadia:

    Eddie Lacy has averaged 2.15 yards after contact since entering the NFL — sixth-best. Can pick up yardage when blocking’s not perfect.

    This is a big reason why I think Lacy was SEA’s primary FA RB target, and why they didn’t let him leave without signing.

    Also why I think he could become Lynch lite.

    • Sea Mode says:

      “At his best, Lacy has been the power back that Seattle covets for its running game. According to ESPN Stats & Information, he’s averaged 2.15 yards per rush after first contact, which is indicative of his ability to break tackles. Of running backs with at least 500 attempts, that average is second only to Marshawn Lynch (2.20) in that timeframe.”

      http://sports.mynorthwest.com/250708/agent-eddie-lacy-agrees-to-terms-with-seahawks/

      The article doesn’t make clear what that timeframe is, but it sure sounds good to me!

  50. McGruff says:

    Yes!!!!

    This is the one move I’ve been looking forward to all off srason

  51. nichansen01 says:

    Oh my… does this signing look similar to
    When we got Marshawn lynch or WHAT.

    Lynch – had two 1,100 yard seasons in his first two years in Buffalo before having a disappointing 400 and then 100 yard season (Lacy 700 and 300).

    I know Lynch was traded mid-season, but a similarity is there.

  52. Sea Mode says:

    So are we only going after ex-Packers for now or what? Lang, Lacy, Cook… who’s next?!

  53. vrtkolman says:

    Tom Silverstein @TomSilverstein

    Source said #Packers and #Vikings offered Lacy similar contracts. Chance to be in a run-first offense might have been deciding factor.

  54. Aaron says:

    It was either Lacy or L. Murray for me. I don’t think we need to add another FA RB imo. Charles would be nice Prosise insurance but his age and injuries worry me. As for Lacy, he is that brusing big back we didn’t have. If we end up signing Charles it’s basically saying to Rawls and Prosise that you’re unreliable. This is great news in the sense that we’re going to be defensive heavy in this draft. Go Hawks!

    • Sea Mode says:

      Rumors…

      The Cowboys have interest in Joe Mixon. – Eric Galko, Optimum Scouting

      “Can confirm Dolphins have been doing their due diligence on defense. Very active interviewing LB/CB/Edge prospects. Interest in Zach Cunnigham.” – Jared Tokarz, NFLDraftInsider

  55. Ground_Hawk says:

    Has anyone else seen Brugler’s top-100 list yet? Based on the conversations we have had on this blog, I think Dane’s list bodes well for many of the views held on here. He has Watt ranked at 33, Bolles at 36, Jarrad Davis at 41, King at 45, Bowser at 51, and *wait for it* Obi at 88. If other non-Seahawk FO’s viewed the talent pool as Brugler suggests, I would be fine with that LOL! Seattle being able to draft Bolles in the 1st, and Obi in the 2nd, without having to move from their natural picks, would be a gift from the football gods.

    Here’s the link if anyone is interested:
    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/nfl-draft-myles-garrett-jonathan-allen-malik-hooker-headline-top-100-prospects/

    • Rob Staton says:

      Just my two cents… but I would disagree strongly with some of those rankings.

      But I think ‘top 100’ lists are a waste of time in general. How do you separate a bunch of guys with similar grades? Teams don’t do that. They’ll set their board up based on tiers (rounds) and then prioritise need etc.

      • Ground_Hawk says:

        Oh for sure, Rob. At this point, I think lists such as Brugler’s are created for purely entertainment purposes. I would be stunned if FO’s around the league based their draft boards off of the work’s of the Brugler’s of the NFL world.

  56. Ishmael says:

    What’s Fat Eddie’s injury history like?

  57. Volume12 says:

    VMAC visitor alert!

    Richmond S David Jones- 6’1, 205 lbs.

    4.43-4.45 40, 4.3 SS, 34″ vert, 10’9″ broad jump, 12 reps on the BP

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