Monday notes: Life without Kam Chancellor

November 27th, 2017 | Written by Rob Staton

This wasn’t supposed to be the way it ended.

Kam Chancellor, so often referred to on this blog as Seattle’s answer to Ray Lewis, might’ve played his last snap in the NFL. Unlike Lewis, he wouldn’t be bowing out with a Super Bowl ring. He’d not really be leaving on his terms either.

It’s a double disappointment when you consider Cliff Avril may also be retiring for a similar issue. What a crushing anti-climax for Seahawks fans and the players involved.

Still, nothing has been confirmed. While Kam might be leaning towards a new direction today, tomorrow, next week or even in the new year — who knows how he’ll feel in a couple of months. Will the desire to go out on a positive note be overwhelming? That will depend on how serious the injury is. Nobody should expect Chancellor to be reckless. But just as time was a healer for Earl Thomas a year ago, that could also be the case for Kam.

If this is the end, the Seahawks wisely at least prepared for the future. Delano Hill is getting the redshirt treatment — just as Chancellor experienced in 2010. He isn’t Kam but nobody is. If nothing else they have someone ready to compete for the job. They could also re-sign Bradley McDougald.

They might have to — and this speaks to a number of other positions too. With limited draft stock in 2018 they’ll do well to fill several needs. With only one pick currently in the first three rounds, they’re also going to be challenged to find impact.

It’s entirely possible, maybe even probable, that they will trade down to make up for the picks lost in the Sheldon Richardson and Duane Brown trades. That would aid the situation. But they can ill-afford to create multiple holes in a roster that already has some needs.

Big free agency decisions looming

I don’t know the cap situation if Chancellor retires and what benefit (if any) Seattle is set to receive.

As Davis Hsu notes in these tweets, there are things we won’t be able to calculate for a while. We don’t even know if Chancellor is definitely going to call it a day.

If Avril retires it’ll open up $7.5m. If they cut Jeremy Lane they’ll add another $5m. They have around $9m available as a rough estimate for 2018 — although the cap could rise again to provide further relief. Cap space at about $22m seems reasonable. That could be problematic.

Jimmy Graham, Sheldon Richardson, Paul Richardson and Luke Joeckel are the big four free agents. Let’s go through each case:

— Graham has been a touchdown machine in recent weeks and finally the Seahawks have worked out a way to get the player they traded for. His chemistry with Russell Wilson is strong and the two appear close on and off the field. However, Graham just turned 31 and has been a divisive talking point among fans for some time. Do you want to make a long term commitment and can you afford the franchise tag? What kind of money is Graham going to command on the market? Early in the season it felt like this would definitely be his final year in Seattle. Now? If he leaves you’ll have to find a way to replace him and Luke Willson is a free agent too. The tight end position would suddenly be a dramatic need — and whoever came in would need to replace Graham’s recent strong production in the red zone. Do you really want to start again with that?

— Sheldon Richardson has been a nice addition so far, particularly for the run defense. His personality and character fits this team and he’s at a good age. He turns 27 on Wednesday. He hasn’t, however, added much to the interior pass rush. That might be down to scheme and Seattle’s constant desire to play the run first and foremost. Yet the hope was surely to get more than one solitary recorded sack by this point in the season. His addition was supposed to make the defense unplayable — and he’s been more good than great. It’s impossible to predict his value on the open market. His poor statistical numbers and previous character problems could take zero’s off his contract. He could also, based on talent, get a huge pay day (and teams have so much cap room to splash out now). Seattle’s outlay also plays a part. A second round pick for a one-year rental is a hefty price even if you get a third round comp pick in 2019. If his contract only gets you a fourth or a fifth round comp pick — then that’s a problem. And it wouldn’t be a good look. The other thing to consider here is the health of Malik McDowell.

— Paul Richardson has had a breakout season after finishing strongly at the end of 2016 too. He always had talent and flashed his potential even as a rookie in 2014. Injuries have been a problem in his career and that tempers what he might be worth to other teams. The receiver market is a tough one to workout. A year ago Terrelle Pryor and Alshon Jeffrey had to take one-year prove-it deals because the big money over multiple years wasn’t there. Robert Woods, however, managed to turn an underwhelming spell in Buffalo into a five-year $34m contract worth $6.8m a season. If Richardson gets offers in the $7m range it’s hard to imagine him staying in Seattle. If he leaves though are they creating a void that needs to be filled? Is Amara Darboh ready to step in? Or one of the other younger receivers? Is that a situation you feel comfortable with, considering Seattle’s new-found reliance on the passing game?

— Luke Joeckel has missed time through injury and fans mostly seem to have a negative view of how he’s played. Personally I think he’s done pretty well. The Seahawks clearly like him and have talked very positively about him this season. The O-line looks to be taking shape and with Duane Brown, Justin Britt, Ethan Pocic and Germain Ifedi all under contract, it’d be nice to retain some continuity in 2018. They also seem to be placing a high priority on the O-line (see: Ifedi, Pocic picks, Britt re-signing and Brown trade). So while fans might not think much of a new deal for Joeckel, the Seahawks might see it as an important move. Again though, it’s tough to work out what his value might be. He’s earning $7-8m for this season which isn’t actually that high in the current O-line market. Yet further injury issues have to be taken into consideration. The last five games are big for Joeckel.

They might not be able to keep all four but they could find a way. All four players would have to be replaced after all. And with no second or third round pick, it’ll be hard to address the current needs (EDGE, RB) sufficiently without then needing to add TE, WR and G into the equation.

A reminder — the Seahawks are not built like the Pats

It’s very easy to look at the Patriots and wonder why the Seahawks with all their talent can’t emulate their relentless run. The two teams are just built so differently. And in reality, there’s no peer for New England, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick.

When Carroll arrived many people looked at the Pittsburgh Steelers as the model. A tough, hard-nosed, physical team that won consistently. If we consider the Seahawks as the NFC’s answer to Pittsburgh, then you might look at their current 7-4 season a little differently.

Here’s every Pittsburgh season since they drafted Ben Roethlisberger:

15-1
11-5 (won Super Bowl)
8-8
10-6
12-4 (won Super Bowl)
9-7
12-4 (lost Super Bowl)
12-4
8-8
8-8
11-5
10-6
11-5
9-2

Russell Wilson is currently in his sixth season with the team. After six years Roethlisberger and the Steelers had been to two Super Bowls, same as the Seahawks. By the end of year seven he’d been to three with a 2-1 record. That’s still possible for Wilson too.

Roethlisberger’s Steelers won 65 regular season games in their first six seasons. Wilson currently has 63 wins — with five more games to play in 2017.

This is Pittsburgh’s 14th season with Roethlisberger now. As you can see, they’ve had some ups and downs. They’ve had a few 8-8 seasons.

Yet nobody would say this period of Steelers’ football has been mediocre or suggest that they’ve necessarily underachieved. One more Championship would probably cap it off. That could happen this year.

Any upstart team as the Seahawks were when Pete Carroll arrived would look at Pittsburgh and say ‘we’d like to emulate their success‘.

They’re some way to achieving that, having accomplished a roster rebuild similar to those Steeler teams in the early Roethlisberger years.

When you start to view the Seahawks as a blood relative of the Steelers (sorry, I know that will be tough for some to read) instead of comparing them to the Patriots — it might make their current form more tolerable.

The Steelers have gone through some pretty significant makeovers over time. When Roethlisberger was drafted they were a fearsome defensive behemoth with a tough running game. Classic AFC North football. As the likes of Joey Porter, James Harrison and Troy Polamalu aged, however, they shifted. They built around Roethlisberger.

Now they’re all about Big Ben, Le’Veon Bell and Antonio Brown.

This doesn’t have to be the way the Seahawks go but if they’re forced to lose some of their big defensive stars in the future, it’s an option. That could be why the O-line suddenly gets more investment. It could be why they retain someone like Paul Richardson and/or Jimmy Graham. We might see future high-ish picks spent on the offensive skill positions (eg running back in 2018).

It’s something to consider, anyway.

They may also have some down years in the future. Some 9-7 or 8-8 type seasons. Just like Pittsburgh.

But if by year 14 Russell Wilson has a record similar to Roethlisberger’s — another Championship with an average of 10.4 wins a season — is anyone really going to complain?

Texas left tackle turning pro

It’s shaping up to be another rough year at offensive tackle in the draft. Texas’ Connor Williams is taking advantage, announcing he’ll head to the NFL and miss his teams Bowl game.

Williams is one of the few prospects likely to be drafted highly as a blindside blocker, so the move makes sense.

Here’s a statement from Williams:

“My family and I have decided it is my best interest to forgo the bowl game and my senior season to begin preparing for my professional football career. One of the reasons I worked so hard to come back from my injury was to help the team reach its goal of playing in a bowl game, and I’m proud we were able to accomplish that. I will continue to support my teammates in their efforts to finish the season strong.”

Nobody should criticise him for skipping the Bowl game either. Remember what happened to Jaylon Smith?

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231 Responses to “Monday notes: Life without Kam Chancellor”

  1. Aaron says:

    The Brown-Joeckel-Britt-Pocic-Ifedi combo looked really solid in pass pro yesterday, not perfect but very serviceable. Gotta see them against the Eagles, Rams, and Cards again to be sure, but I’d love to keep them together for the next 2-3 years. The big issue is still run blocking. I think we’re an offseason away from that taking shape because we don’t have a premier RB on this roster. Really wish they would stop the ZBS run game but guess they’ll keep it as long as Cable is here. You’re right Rob, Hawks are more like the Steelers and probably Green Bay than the Pats. Steelers haven’t won a SB since 2008 and Packers since 2010.

    • C-Dog says:

      I’ve been using the Steelers comparison a lot lately to keep family members and friends who are diehard Hawks from jumping off a bridge. Personally, I really like the comparison.

      • BobbyK says:

        Biggest difference is that Pittsburgh has never mortgaged its future the way this Seahawks organization has done to “win now.” Not having a second round pick until 2020 and no third round pick this year is something the Steelers have never done.

        • Rob Staton says:

          This is true — but the comparison isn’t to try and portray Seattle as an identical twin. Rather to say they have become a force akin to Pittsburgh albeit in the NFC, with some striking similarities in terms of the way they’ve been built and may well be adapting.

    • Mark Souza says:

      I wouldn’t say really solid, but definitely better. Ifedi is the weak point, and was again this weekend. I watch one play where SF ran a stunt. Pocic stoned his man (the DT), then the stunt happened and he transitioned the DT to Ifedi and took on the DE who was stunting inside and stoned him too. Meanwhile, Ifedi let his man (the DT) take a straight path the Wilson without laying a mitt on him. It was like he thought “well now that you’re taking the DE, I guess I’m done for this play.”

      The juxtaposition was staggering. Here you have a rookie, Pocic, handling a stunt like a seasoned veteran, while our second year, first round draft pick Ifedi wanders through the game like he doesn’t have a clue.

      • Mike B. says:

        I’ve rewatched much of Ifedi’s play vs SF and agree with that one instance, but overall he was pretty good—I believe he only allowed one or two pressures, and I don’t think he committed a single penalty.

  2. Chancellor: Considering I don’t believe we gain much/any cap space if he retires, and he was playing really well in ’17, I hope he comes back and plays for one more year. I like McDougald and am very intrigued by Delano Hill, however if we’re paying Kam anyways, I’m hoping he plays again.

    Avril: I was thinking before the season (given his cap savings) that I’d like to see us trade or cut Avril. Then this season got started, he made little to no impact and then he got hurt. So retiring a Seahawk seems ideal. It would suck for him to come back, only for us to cut him to save money. I do wonder if I am being too critical though, seeing as he had a 11.5 sack season in ’16. I remember hearing “you don’t let good pass rush leave your team.”

    Graham: His age doesn’t really concern me, seeing as TE’s seem to play well into their 30’s quite well. His price is obviously the huge factor. If he is demanding #1 TE money or something then I don’t think we should keep him. But if he is seeking a fair price and recognizes the stagnant TE market in which he is still the highest paid at, then I’d like to see us keep him. Why? We spent all that time making him into a complete TE, and this season he finally brings his Saints red-zone TD catching skill-set to the table…he’s finally now what we want him to be and will score 10-12 TD’s this season for us. How can we let that walk? Who will score those TD’s? Who will be our RZ weapon? Which TE’s will fill his role? We can likely re-sign Luke for cheap again, Nick is developing fairly nicely and Swoopes is intriguing but we were stupid and drafted Tedric Thompson instead of George Kittle. We’d be scary shallow at TE if we let Jimmy walk.

    PRich: If he stays healthy he is a must re-sign, unless he demands top tier WR money. We can’t invest too much into the WR position group given the over-saturated market and depth of talent coming out of college at the position. But Paul is finally what we wanted him to be and he catches those Golden Tate-esk contested 50/50 balls that Russ throws well. His skill-set is one that we haven’t had in a while and would really hurt to no longer have.

    Sheldon: I honestly don’t know what is the correct take in regards to his pass rush. I’ll be honest, when we traded for him I was expecting Aaron Donald-lite, and so far Jarran Reed has 1/2 a sack more than Sheldon. Sheldon played against the 9ers (yesterday) how I expected him to play after we traded for him. If we can afford him (hopefully he doesn’t demand $17m+ APY) I’d love for our DL to consist of Reed, Naz, Clark, Sheldon, Malik, M.Smith, D.Jordan, B.Jackson, and the old wily vet Bennett for at least one more season. That makes Reed the new Mebane (but better pass rush), Naz the new Clinton McDonald, Clark the new Avril, Sheldon and Malik are unique, Bennett and the stable of rotational guys; Jackson, Jordan, Smith, etc. Obviously it would be huge if Malik was 100% before we had to make a decision on Sheldon. Betting on Malik, letting Sheldon walk and Malik being a legit talent in ’18 would be huge. Would save us so much money.

    Joeckel: I really love the idea of us re-signing him and having legit continuity on the OL. Brown-Joeckel-Britt-Pocic (after an off-season to put on 10-15lbs of muscle)-Ifedi. I’d want competition for Ifedi, the weakest link, but damn that looks nice. Obviously if we could draft a OG in the first 4 rounds that could start as a rookie at LG and play well, that would be nice (cheaper) but I don’t really trust this FO to eval the talent well and find that OG. If Joeckel finishes these 5 weeks strong, our doctors give the FO a thumbs up in regards to his knee, he doesn’t demand top OG money and there isn’t a legit rookie to draft, then re-sign him please.

    • Greg Haugsven says:

      Good post Nathan, we would save $2.3 million if he retires (that is if we dont owe any money for injury) not a big savings. If he plays in 2018 then retires we would save $8 million next year and that is a significant amount. I agree on Graham as Gates, Gonzalez, Witten have all played for a while into there 30’s. Maybe Richardson would sign a Kearse/Baldwin like deal. 3 years $13 million with the ability to sign a bigger contract after two years. I would want to keep Richardson and I would be fine with Odihambo, Roos, draft pick or a free agent playing LG.

    • C-Dog says:

      Sheldon has been pretty good at the pass rush when you factor in his hurries and hits. He’s had a number of near sacks that other players got. Pete was very complementary about that aspect of his game today during his afternoon press conference. As someone who obsesses with inside pressure, I’ve personally been pretty happy with his play. The fact that his run defense has been terrific is a big time plus.

    • Ross says:

      Don’t forget about Fant coming back. Perhaps competition for both RT and RG between Pocic, Glow, Ifedi, Fant, and Odhiambo? However that shakes out, I like the look of our line and for that reason, I think keeping Joekel is a must.

      • Tyler Jorgensen says:

        Yeah, I would think Fant would be the RT competition, and if he wins, Ifedi could compete with Pocic inside. Also, that would be the pathway to let Joeckel go, with Pocic sliding back to the left side, Ifedi at RG, and Fant at RT. It would be a cheap way to create some continuation. While I would love to keep Joeckel, I think letting he’s the easiest to let go of the 4 if there’s a money issue with keeping all four.

        We will still have a young and improving OL even without Joeckel. However, the nice thing about keeping Joeckel is that two years from now, Fant could potentially switch to the left side with a vet, Ifedi move back to the RT spot (or another quality RT gets unearthed), and we still can keep much of the line intact without rebuilding the entire thing yearly.

        I don’t want to let Preach, Sheldon or Jimmy G go. If I had to order them, it would be keep 1) Jimmy, 2) Preach, 3) Sheldon, 4) Joeckel.

        • David says:

          I, personally, am not a big fan of retaining Graham ahead of Prich. Yes Graham has been fantastic scoring TDs from inside the 3, but at the same time it’s pathetic that they have to throw fades from the 1 literally every time they are on the goal line in order to score. And the fact that they have like 1 rushing TD from a RB despite countless opportunities from the 1 or 2 yard line.

          But the biggest reason I would prefer Prich instead of Graham is that, despite Graham’s success from inside the 5, he has been virtually useless between the 20’s. He has dropped a few major balls in key situations in losses that potentially could have been game changers in those games (wide open) and in general has not created any noticeable mismatches in the middle of the field. His contribution this season has generally been relegated to strictly scoring on short passes on the goal line.

          Prich on the other hand has been a major factor moving the ball all season, has shown the ability to make acrobatic clutch catches at key times and has positively contributed to wins time and time again.
          Another factor here is the health of Tyler Lockett. If Lockett is able to regain his rookie form than potentially the loss of Prich would not be as damaging (even though Lockett has not shown the ability to make the 50/50 catches that Prich can), but it seems Lockett is still not at 100% this year as he has not contributed for long stretches in the year which is very different than 2015 when he was getting wide open for huge gains multiple times a game for much of the year. If Lockett never regains his explosiveness from his rookie season (which he needs because that is what his game is predicated on – not jump balls) than losing Prich will be even a bigger loss to the offense.

          • Rob Staton says:

            Graham’s last two red zone touchdowns were not fades. His score against San Francisco was a slant with Graham winning inside, and he had the two-point conversion on a rub-route.

            I’m amazed that people are so determined to diminish the fact Graham has stacked up a fantastic run of touchdowns. He’s become virtually unstoppable in the red zone. And yet for years the Seahawks were terrible in the RZ. And now they aren’t any more, we’re thoroughly and exquisitely taking it for granted.

            • STTBM says:

              Thats a great point, Rob. I know Im not taking it for granted one bit. Even if Graham isnt getting 100 yard games this year, or making as many big yardage catches, he clearly has become in-tune with Wilson in the Red Zone. And even if he loses a step, speed-wise, in the near future, his Red Zone abilities will remain undiminished.

              For that reason alone I think Seattle should try to resign him.

    • John says:

      If we let Joekel go, I could see moving Pocic to left guard, sliding Ifedi back down to right guard and moving George Fant to right Tackle. That might actually be a pretty good line: Brown, Pocic, Britt, Ifedi, Fant

      • My worry about doing anything with Fant other than keeping him at LT is he is incredibly new to the sport, and just when he was about to start his second season he suffers a bad leg injury and now is rehabbing instead of playing or at least training. Asking him to move might stunt or set back his overall development. Let’s give him the peace of mind of telling him that he is a LT no matter what (not move him around like we did Gilliam) and that he should focus singularly on that position. Let him be mentored by Brown, work at LT in the off-season and during camp and then be a backup LT in ’18. If Brown gets hurt at any point then we feel pretty damn good about our highly athletic, smart, strong LT2 filling in. Hell, maybe he’d prove himself to be so improved that we’d feel comfortable naming him our future LT1 when Brown retires.

  3. AndrewP says:

    (Sorta) OT: Unless someone they absolutely love inexplicably falls, I cannot envision a scenario where the Seahawks pick before #40 this year… There will be trade downs… so many trade downs…

  4. Nick says:

    Great article. I really, really like Richardson, but the development of the interior D-line (even without McDowell) has been sensational. Nazair, Jarran, and Malik are three excellent inside players that should anchor the line for years to come.

    However, if we do let Richardson walk, I imagine we spend a high pick on a run-stuffing DT (Rd 2-4). The depth at the moment simply isn’t good enough if Richardson leaves.

    • Nick says:

      Forgot Jefferson!

    • red says:

      Lots of DT free agents if you need interior pass rush Clint McDonald could be had for maybe 3 mil he will be 31 if you prefer a run stuffer Ngata if he does not retire could be had for maybe 4 mil. If you are willing to spend in the 8-9 mil range Poe and Benny Logan could be attractive. FA + Naz Reed McDowell 4th or 5th RD DT/DE hybrid type.

      • Nick says:

        That sounds like the right allocation of resources to me. Honestly, it all depends on how they see Malik playing next year. If they think he’s good to go from his injury, then I think Sheldon walks.

        • C-Dog says:

          Pete Carroll was a tiny bit cryptic today in response to Malik beyond this 2017. Some reports suggested early in the season that the injuries he suffered were serious enough to be potentially career threatening. IMO, I think that might ultimately be why they were willing to finally deal a second rounder for Sheldon; genuine uncertainty over the future of Malik.

          • Mark Souza says:

            And I wonder about the character of someone knowing what’s potentially on the line joy riding on an ATV. How important is football to him? Will he ever grow up? Will he ever play a meaningful down for the Hawks?

      • lil'stink says:

        +1 on McDonald. He’s getting older but is still playing at an efficient level this year for the Bucs. Think it ‘s a long shot that we would go after him if the team thinks MM will play next year.

    • Del Tre says:

      He’s been pretty critical, there are several games we would not have won without him. Bad idea to let him walk in my opinion. Especially gicen Bennetts age, Avrils likely retirment, Frank Clarks inconsistency, and as good as Naz Jones has been we have no promises of consistency for next year.

  5. cha says:

    “He hasn’t, however, added much to the interior pass rush. That might be down to scheme and Seattle’s constant desire to play the run first and foremost. Yet the hope was surely to get more than one solitary recorded sack by this point in the season. ”

    Thank you for this. I have been shouted down in my Hawk-fan-friend-group for suggesting Sheldon hasn’t exactly played up to reasonable expectations. His first game vs Green Bay was phenomenal, almost like they just told him ‘go out and play and we’ll teach you the scheme later’. Since then he’s been good against the run but needs to assert himself more fully.

    I like Sheldon, I want him to be a Seahawk, but to date I don’t see him as an OL wrecking ball disruptor type we all wanted him to be. It feels like he’s made Reed a better player and that’s not nothing, but I expected at least 4-6 sacks, several ‘holy smokes did you see that?’ plays and chatter that opposing offenses now have another headache on their hands, having to gameplan for him along with Earl, Sherman, Wagner, etc by this point in the season.

    • Drew says:

      He hasnt had the greatest pass rush but he has been dominate against the run. He was wrecking San Frans OL yesterday constantly

      • C-Dog says:

        +1

        I would go further and say he’s been disruptive every game in ways not seen by a Seattle DT in some time. PFF has consistently rated him as a plus interior rusher despite the lack of sack numbers.

    • Mark Souza says:

      What I see when I see S-Rich play on pass downs is someone who gets penetration and collapses the pocket. He often not getting the sack, but frequently flushes the QB into the waiting arms of our defensive ends.

  6. AndrewP says:

    I wonder how much Fant, Odi and Roos will factor into their plans with Joeckel. If they think one of these three can be the 5th man on the line, and quickly build cohesion because of familiarity with his teammates and the system, it might, MIGHT make Joeckel replaceable (especially if a team likes what they see of his film this year and throws $9/per at him).

    • SebA says:

      I was wondering that, too. Pete seemed to really like Roos (and from his bench press reps he’s incredibly strong). Surely Fant sits behind Brown as a long-term replacement, Odhiambo goes back to G/T backup duty and Roos could slip in to Joeckel’s spot if necessary.

      • Mark Souza says:

        I’m hoping Fant will be good when he returns, but I don’t know and wouldn’t bank too much on that. He was thought to be ready to make a big step forward this year, but we’ll never know because he didn’t get the chance. We’ve heard those kind of words during preseason before about a lot of players who didn’t get hurt, and the hyped progression never materialized. For Fant, I think it’s best to say he’ll be part of the competition in camp next year rather than penciling him in and counting on him to fortify the line.

    • Mike B. says:

      Roos might very well be the future at LG or RG, depending on what happens with Joeckel and where Pocic fits best.

    • AlaskaHawk says:

      I don’t see how the Seahawks can afford to pay big money for a guard. Their roster is loaded with guards who apparently can’t play the position. Something is really wrong here, either in scouting or training.

  7. Jordan says:

    At this point, its hard not to imagine graham on the team next year. He presents to many mismatch options that your looking for on a offense. What would be great to see is a formidable running game built off the fear of graham/Baldwin/p-rich beating you for a big gain. At some point teams will roll a safety over to graham knowing that we’ll probably try to run unsuccessfully. with Baldwin on the roster a couple more years it would be good to have “options” for Wilson to go to in these situations.

  8. Trevor says:

    I know a lot of fans will second guess the Kam signing now but I for one still think it was the right decision by JS. As Rob said he was our Ray Lewis and needs to retire a Hawk and Hawk only. Hope he can come back but that he puts his long term health first. He and Avril are such class acts it is a sad way to see them go out if it happens that way.

    • Greg Haugsven says:

      It was a tough one because you just couldnt let him play out the last year of his deal. It would have been the pink elephant. He is your leader and its not just about his physical ability as it is his leadership.

  9. John_s says:

    I think I was the only one who was against extending Kam. I didn’t like the holdout and Earl even admitted that it took some time to get back the trust with Kam after the holdout fiasco. In addition I am of the Pats thinking of its better to let a player go a year early instead of a year late. Kam’s style of play meant that either his body was going to break down sooner than others (reason for the holdout and wanting guaranteed money) or he would have to change it up and not be the enforcer he once was. By metrics he’s been great this year but he hasn’t been the enforcer that strikes fear in the middle of the field.

    • Dylanlep says:

      Agree John, from what I’ve read, if he retires that’s a 7.5m hit in dead money for 2018. That’s a lot when considering how tight against the cap they already are and the other soon to be free agents they might want to retain. Add on the fact that they dont have a second or third this year – pretty rough.

  10. Tbone4444 says:

    Very apt comparison with the Steelers Rob. I think you may have mentioned it before and I remembered being quite satisfied with it. If we continue to have a similar trajectory to the Steelers when RW hangs it up, I will be satisfied. If you had told me the last 18 years were gonna happen on 1999, I would’ve been excited beyond belief. It really does feel like the team is in the midst of a sea change and that’s ok. I trust JS and PC to handle it well (I think😀) and having RW for hopefully another 10 years is sweet!

  11. Ukhawk says:

    Wait & see on Kam & Avril; health permitting, they can dominate again.

    I’d try to keep Sheldon but at a reasonable rate as he is a valuable disruptor.

    PRich has improved but I don’t think it’s where you spend you’re coin.

    I’d lose Graham who for all his production creates too little separation and has no hops anymore.

    Joeckel while good is too much an injury risk.

    We need to get younge, faster, stronger and more hungry

    • Rob Staton says:

      If Jimmy is scoring TD’s every week, the separation doesn’t matter IMO.

      He’s on for 13-15 TD’s. That seems to be just ignored.

      • Greg Haugsven says:

        The bigger you are the less separation you need. Antonio Gates wasnt ever really that open but you just dont get around that dude. I look at a recent contract signed by Tim Jernigan of the Eagles. He signed for 4 years $48 million. That might be about what Richardson should get. I know you disagree Rob but I still think Graham takes you farther away from being the bully than becoming the bully. He does score touchdowns but he just goes down to easy like Shawn Alexander. He is a tough one for me. I dont think you replace his touchdowns with one guy as you would spread it around.

      • cha says:

        He’s also done that while battling an ankle injury. I think if he squares that away the hops will come back fine.

        • red says:

          The Problem with Graham is does he even want to be here. We will not franchise him so we don’t hold leverage over him.

          • Kenny Sloth says:

            He seems happier here than ever before in his life

          • Tyler Jorgensen says:

            What makes you think he doesn’t? He gets to FLY HIS PLANE DIRECTLY TO PRACTICE. That’s a huge win. He’s best friends with his QB, and he genuinely seems to play with a joy in my eyes.

            I think it’s shocking how frequently we fans seems to place our biases and expectations over the situation and define a reality that is far different than the one the players know, see, feel, and experience.

          • Mark Souza says:

            Graham loves it here. He’s a private pilot with a seaplane rating, and there is no where better for flying seaplanes than the Puget Sound area. Hell, he’s flown his plane to the VMAC on numerous occasions.

            The only reason he might have been upset was we weren’t targeting him in earlier years. We seemed to have fixed that this year.

    • pran says:

      Pretty much agree.. If Graham continues to be on a tear week in week out it will be a tough decision.

      • AlaskaHawk says:

        I don’t agree at 10 million per year . He has dropped a lot of passes and can’t jump any more. Maybe when his ankle heals up he will be able to jump . I just think that any competent tight end can do what he is doing. It is more a matter of whether Wilson will throw to him. Last year Wilson wouldn’t throw to Graham in the red zone – why? Ow fans act like it is a miracle this year becaus they finally use him – but his catch percentage is low for a 10 million dollar all pro.

        Let me ask this – what happened to Darboh? That guy could jump higher and had good hands. Why isn’t he playing?

  12. Gohawks5151 says:

    To be fair the Patriots morphed from a Defense first, Tom Brady “game manager” offense, to Tom (and Bill) being the whole offense with a “wont lose you the game” defense. Still i would compare Seattle to a AFC north team (PIT or BAL). Such bad timing with these injuries. Kind of hoping Avril bows out as we are most prepared to soften his loss (Clark, Jordan, Smith). Uggh Kam… Hope Delano was paying attention. So tempting to take a Saefty if one should slide but we all know they are trading back to recoup picks.

    I would argue Sheldon Richardson is good as advertised. Sacks aren’t there but run D and pressures are. Teammates are definitely reaping the benefits of having him inside too. Plus how many times has the D line forced an underneath throw that still is run for a first down (Atlanta game…). goes a lot farther than pressure numbers. Much is made of taking some time to learn the seahawks way of pass defense but the same could be argued for the D line too. Took Reed some time to figure it out. Not always plug and play.

    Let Joeckel go. Roll with Brown-Pocic-Britt-Ifedi-Fant. Another year of experience and strength for the young guys to go with the 2 vets. Still having trouble understanding who would pay P Rich 7-8 million. For all his good, still a guy who has been far more hurt more that healthy and is the 3rd pass option on a “Average” offense as the national media goes. I think he stays on the same contract they signed kearse.

    • Chris says:

      PRich will have a lot of suitors. Teams will look at how Kearse (and Tate) have prospered and figure that our scheme is holding him back from having even better numbers. I would be surprised if $7M is the ceiling; and despite my appreciation for him, I don’t think that’s where you put the money for a player who isn’t transcendent.

      • red says:

        Other FA WR might keep the market for Prich decent. He is probably 6th or 7TH on the WR list of FA behind Jeffrey, Jarvis Landry, Sammy Watkins, Marqise Lee, Davante Adams, other receivers UFA that are okay

        Jordan Mathews, Dante Moncrief Terell Pryor.

        I think Prich should be in 6-7 mil range. Also NFL Draft Scout has 12WR in top 100 so decent draft for WR.

    • Mike B. says:

      I agree that Richardson has been a very good addition, and you’re spot-on about his run-stuffing and pressures. Say what you will about PFF’s grading system, but it’s based on solid data, and Richardson, rated the #25 defensive interior lineman, has racked up quite a few run stops, QB pressures, and QB hurries/hits.

  13. Greg Haugsven says:

    Man, there is so much here I dont know where to begin. I do compare us to the Steelers, this year feels like they are twins as they play down to the competition. The bad news is when the Steelers went to an air raid system they have won 0 Super Bowls and really havent contended. That is what scares me about going that direction. The cap situation is my cup of tea and something that I think about and study almost every day. We are going to be very tight against the cap again and if we have around $22-$24 million thats not a lot. We dont have a kicker and we have lots of Free Agents and a few restricted free agents as well.

  14. Greg Haugsven says:

    We also dont know what Delano Hill could become. He could be very good as well. Know one knew Kam would be what he was after sitting his first year.

  15. red says:

    Any thoughts on Austin Safarian Jenkins? Nice bounce back year will be FA after this year. Also interesting stat Tyler Eifert has played 23 games in the last three years has 18TD in these 23 games. Would be interesting trying to gauge the market for Eifert not very durable but when healthy is a TD machine.

  16. C-Dog says:

    Really nice write up, Rob, and I appreciate the pros and cons you used for each player. For me, I’d love to see this team figure out a way to keep each one, especially if Joekel can hold up.

    For me, the one I would most want to see them hang onto would definitely be Sheldon Richardson. I know the sack numbers aren’t there, but the hurries and the hits and overall disruption have been to go along with his solid play against the run. DT’s like that are pretty rare, and at 27, you lock him up and then you don’t even worry about that rotation for the next several years. Carroll has just noting today how much he was offering as a disruptor. Last couple games in particular it just feels like he is barreling through the line at times. I gotta feeling that if he wasn’t on a D line also touting Frank Clark, Mike B and others, his sack numbers might look a bit flashier. The fact that he is just turning 27 is also a big time plus, and you know what you are getting. My gut says that they didn’t deal a second round pick just to have him be a one year rental. I think there is a chance there could be legit concerns about Malik McDowell’s future, and maybe that has factored into the steep price. The one X factor could be whether they see Naz Jones being close enough within Richardson’s league as a three down player down the road. Carroll was pretty pointed today saying that they expect Naz to take a big step next year as a sophomore.. could be a signal that they might be willing to let Sheldon move on.

    Jimmy Graham should feel like a given. Carroll has said in the past they they would like him to retire a Hawk. He also mentioned today how they have finally figured out how to use him effectively. One counter point was on the 710 this morning when Mike Salk went on a small bit about how he’s still not overly impressed with him, that he doesn’t get a lot of YAC or break tackles like top end TEs should, and is maybe lost some speed, that his best play has become in the red zone and not between the 20s. I didn’t here Brock Huard fully disagreeing. Does someone offer him a big contract at 31 with that injury history?

    PRich is one that I am really hoping they hang onto. I think building chemistry with Houdini takes time. I thought it was a mistake to let Golden go even though they had just got Harvin. Maybe they see a future with Darboh being the next man up with a healthier Lockett in a contract year, but maybe they feel that they should have held onto Golden and make PRich a priority.

    Keeping Joekel makes a lot of sense, especially if the line settles him with him on the left and Pocic on the right. I think a few X factors might be, do they feel they have a good young LG on the roster in Odhiambo or Roos, and with Fant, do would they consider trying him at RT and kick Ifedi back to guard just to get him playing again in 2018? Or maybe Paul Allen calls Pete Carroll and John Schneider into his office on Mercer Island and say “Look, as the owner of this team, I will puke in my mouth if you say to me that you want to give another unproven a shot to start. Just pay Joekel.”

    Honestly, though. If Kam retires and McDougald has filled in well as a replacement for the rest of the season, may not be a bad thing to figure out a way to keep him around, as well. I’m excited to see what Delano Hill might become, but right now, he’s a total unknown.

    • GoHawks5151 says:

      I want to keep PRich and maybe im more delusional than most about his price. A lot of talk about Darboh but we did cut Freeney to keep David Moore. He strikes me as a cross between PRich and Tate. He is a speed guy with YAC ability. Looks like he is built tough. If Darboh can be the 50/50 guy I could see them letting PRich walk if the price is too big. Agree on Sheldon and Joeckel. Roll the dice on Delano.

      • C-Dog says:

        They took Delano Hill right after Shaquill Griffin, and before Naz Jones and Amara Darboh. Some of the stuff being said about Hill in terms of toughness and leadership at Michigan sounded Kam like. I would be pretty interested in seeing them giving him a shot at it in 2018 if Kam retires.

        David Moore is definitely intriguing. I think Darboh has a chance to be like Kearse. They way PRich has been playing, it would be disappointing to see him leave. I actually think there could be a decent market for him.

  17. drewdawg11 says:

    This whole season has been a tough pill to swallow when it comes to injuries. I was in the building when Sherman went down and Kam possibly played his last game? Awful. I really don’t know much about how the cap works, (dead money, etc.). I still think Bennett is expendable, but I’ve read that he wouldn’t save much cap space until the following season. If someone would be willing to give up a 2nd round pick, I may do it. We can’t keep Paul if we only have $22 million. Graham on a shorter deal would be great. Sheldon has to be the priority with the age of Bennett and Avril possibly retiring. Richardson and probably Clark would stay and team with the young bucks at DT. I keep saying it. Do NOT resign Luke Joeckel!

    • C-Dog says:

      Does Naz make Sheldon expendable? Does Darboh make PRich expendable? Would it be a shocker if Joekel and Graham are the ones that they keep?

      • drewdawg11 says:

        Absolutely not. Naz is a nice player, but his run defense isn’t nearly as good. He’s a young guy and he’s been good while playing in a rotation. He’s not ready to be the man just yet.

        • Greg Haugsven says:

          I would think they do make them expendable. Only so much cap space. Richardson vs Jones is $12,000,000 vs about 750k. Value comes into play at some time. That being said I hope they resign Sheldon. I think for Paul Richardson it comes down to him or Lockette, who do you want as I don’t see them paying both.

        • C-Dog says:

          As much as I want them to retain Sheldon, IMO, I think Naz has looked better as a rookie and further along than Jarran Reed did at times. I also think nobody have made a bigger jump from year one to year two than Jarran Reed from that draft class. Carroll stated today that they expect Naz to make a similar jump in his second year.

          If I were to bet, I would probably bet they work to retain Sheldon, but I also think it is possible that, while they love what Sheldon is bringing, they might see a special player in Naz developing before them, and maybe one that has been exceeding expectations. If they let Sheldon walk, it could have more to do with what they think they will have with Naz than even what they think they might get with Malik McDowell, if he should come back from injury, and they have him on a cheap rookie deal.

          • GoHawks5151 says:

            Wishful thinking there is a slight discount with Sheldon. More Timmy Jernigan than Fletcher Cox. Sheldon is a unique guy. I really think we are just scratching the surface on him. Too much position switching the past few years for him. Takes a while adjust back. He still has things to learn. Under Rex and Bolles he was more reckless and had 1 v 1 oppotunites open up due to heavy blitz schemes. Elite run defender and disrupter. I believe in Naz too but different player. Penetrator, but run defense a work in progress. Fully expect him to come along though. I don’t know if he replaced the production in scheme. Kind of an embarrassed of riches when you think about it. Malik is the wild card. They were wild about him in camp despite Naz’s precense.

            • C-Dog says:

              I think of it this way; you lose Kam and maybe Cliff to retirement. When Sheldon, Jarran and MikeB are on the field together, good luck running against that, and they are all individually able to push the pocket. Why break that up, and quite possibly make that unit weaker? Seattle needs to add talent, not lose talent.

              • GoHawks5151 says:

                Truth

                • drewdawg11 says:

                  The comparisons between Sheldon and Naz are silly. Naz can’t stand up against the run nearly as well. He’s flashed because he’s always fresh. Reed and Sheldon are the starters and Naz is a good rotation guy at this point. You lose Avril, you don’t willingly lose Richardson as well. That’s how you see this defense take a fall, and now Earl is making 100 tackles a year until his shoulders give out.

                  • C-Dog says:

                    Sheldon is the superior football player hands down. What I wonder is if the staff feels like Naz has the upside to get close to Sheldon down the road. If there isn’t attempt to retain Sheldon, I think the answer to that is probably yes.

                    I think the other gage is comparing where Naz is as a rookie to where Jarran was. IMO, I think Naz has shown things as a rookie Jarran didn’t, especially in the pass rush. Jarran has made a big leap in his year two. If they think Naz is poised to make a similar big leap, that could make Sheldon expendable if the feel they need to hand onto Jimmy, PRich, Joekel and McDougald if Kam retires.

                    My hunch is still that they keep Sheldon. This defense is and will always be Pete’s favored child. He most likely doesn’t want to loose Kam, Cliff and then weaken what has become maybe the strongest DT rotation he has had here. I’m just weighing and looking at reasons why he might.

  18. Volume12 says:

    Does Seattle still want unique skill sets? Because if theh do, it’s really not a tough decision. How many 6’7, 260 lb TEs have come into the league since Jimmy that have to be accounted for 95% of the time? Go ahead. I’ll wait…

    Now, how many good WRs that are 6’1, a buck ’85 come into the league every single year? 5? 6? I also think Lockett can duplicate if not exceed what P-Rich gives you anyways. Better route runner, quicker (not speedier), more versatile. Has 2 less receptions and 100 less yards. But of course P-Rich has caught the eye due to the # of TDs.

    There’s the answer. Goes without saying that its gonna depend on if Jimmy wants to stay or not, but if I’m Seattle, I know who I’m offering the bag (money) to.

    • Volume12 says:

      * 180 more yards P-Rich has and 16 YPC. Lockett is 12.something YPC, but almost double the amount of YAC.

      • Greg Haugsven says:

        Another question, do we want to be the bully? Because to me Jimmy is more like Jane than Tarzan.

        • Volume12 says:

          Yes, he’s a bit soft, but not every single roster member has to be a broad street bully.

          I think its fair to say that competitively he’s more Tarzan than most.

          • Volume12 says:

            I wouldn’t have even said this 4-5 weeks ago about hoping they keep Jimmy over P-Rixh if it comes to that, but he’s given Seattle something that even Marshawn couldn’t. A red zone weapon.

            • C-Dog says:

              +1

              I’ve found myself in the same boat lately. Keep Jimmy Graham and Sheldon Richardson should be the post-it note attached to John Schnieder’s computer screen. Both are too rare to let go.

              • Old but Slow says:

                The slant throw to Jimmy against the Niners was a sealer for me that they have figured out how to use him in the red zone. They have thrown it up in a post up, in a corner fade, and now a slant. Recognizing how to use him has been a bit slow, but it looks strong now. At his size against DB’s it just a matter of where you place the ball.

                In terms of how he likes it here, think about his plane flights. Bayous and farm land, and such, or the Olympic Mountains, the San Juan Islands, the Cascades,and the wealth of beauty in the NW? It must be a rush. OK, maybe he’s a flatland guy, but …

                • drewdawg11 says:

                  The key with that slant play was the fear of the fade. Defenses know that play is coming. He had a lot of space on that slant BECAUSE of the threat of the fade.

                • C-Dog says:

                  That play was a thing of beauty, for sure. The Houston game kinda sealed it for me, and brought me back on board with Jimmy Graham.

                  At the beginning of the season, I had my deep doubts whether he wanted to be here. His body language through the first few games was horrendous, and spoke volumes in my mind. But things shifted when he got more active in the pass game and red zone, and the team started flexing him out more.

                  Now he looks like he is having the time of his life.

                  He’s not a prototype TE, IMO, even at 6-7 260. He’s more of a flex pass catcher and red zone target. That’s his DNA. If the team doesn’t extend him, it probably shows that they are gearing to bring in significant help at RB, and that they want to get back to the style of offense that they had with Marshawn, and they want a TE to match that style inline. But then they’d still might have to go out and get that player, unless they see Vannett being that guy.

                  As I said in a previous comment about Sheldon, though. This team needs to add talent, not lose talent. Jimmy is rare, and they’ve finally come around to using him right. Why say good bye to that now?

                • Mark Souza says:

                  Yeah, it’s pissed me off for years how we couldn’t figure out how to get Jimmy the ball. Wilson seemed hell bent that Jimmy had to have separation in order to pull the trigger. What Jimmy is is an NBA power forward playing against a YMCA rec team. He uses his body to post up and keep much smaller defenders away from the ball. If he has position, he doesn’t need separation. Wilson seems to finally be figuring this out.

            • mishima says:

              Agree, but for how long? JG is 31 while PRich is 25.

              Best scenario: Re-sign JG to a modest 3 year deal and he continues to ball out.

              Worst scenario: JG becomes old, unproductive, soft(er) and expensive while PRich pulls a Tate somewhere else.

              Further, how much of Graham’s success is because Richardson is stretching the field a bit? His numbers have improved because he’s our only option on offense. Not a fanboy of New Orleans 2.0.

              I would let JG and PRich walk. Use the savings on FA RB and/or OL. Count on improvement from Vannett, Darboh, draft picks and increased usage of Lockett. Time to move on from too old / oft-injured.

  19. Volume12 says:

    Sheil Kapadia-

    ‘Seattle has either had the lead or been within one score during the 4th quarter 113 times in their last 116 games.’

    Not sure if fans realize how incredibly rare that is for a single season let alone 116 games.

    • Trevor says:

      That is a mind boggling stat and speaks to the never give up attitude that makes this Seahawks team under PC so special and fun to watch as fan.

  20. Ed says:

    S. Richardson. Yes
    Joeckel. No Brown/Pocic/Britt/Ifedi/Fant works for me
    P. Richardson. No
    Graham. No, unless friendly
    Avril. Hope he retires
    Kam. Hope he retires
    MB. Maybe trade for a 3rd (I know, won’t happen, but the DL will be fine without him and can save some money and get a solid pick)
    RS. Maybe trade for a 2nd (I know, won’t happen, but Shaq/Shead/Coleman/Thorpe/Maxwell can play well behind that stoud DL)

    It is awesome seeing DB finally utilize JG in the redzone. However, if PC and the Hawks want to get back to ground and pound, you need to lose PRrich and JG for bigger more all around players (that block well).

    One last note. PC looks tired. Would not be surprised if he is done after next year.

  21. Forty20 says:

    Hypothetically, if Carson comes back for the games against the Rams, Cowboys and Cardinals and tears it up to the tune of 100+ yards and 1-2 TDs a game – does that impact your opinion on what we should be taking at the top of the draft?

    Is that enough time for Carson to prove he is the guy? After seeing Alex Collins flourishing at Baltimore and knowing what Carson was able to do earlier this year behind the weakest iteration of our o-line (pre Brown and to a lesser extent Pocic), are there other positions that could hold greater value?

    Having our own 1-2 punch similar to that of Ingram/Kamara would be awesome but a blue chip EDGE could be tempting given some key looming cap decisions and an injury cloud over Avril. I know Rob will cover other options down the road but we seem pretty laser focused on a running backs in Round 1 (or 2 knowing a likely tradeback) right now.

    On Kam, even though it is just the media interpreting Carroll’s vague answer, seeing his career come to a close with such a whimper would be a tragedy. McDougald has done a very good job in his opportunities this year while Delano Hill will get a chance to prove why he had a second round grade.

    • C-Dog says:

      It’s a Big If, but if Carson were to do that, it might shift some thinking. Edge could be a possibility, maybe OL. With so many good backs that look available in this particular draft, even if Carson came back and played well, I would think Seattle still looks to add there, especially considering just how many backs they’ve gone through the last few seasons.

      If the Arizona game is the last one Kam plays, I will remember the soul crushing hit he put on Larry Fitz. Vintage Kam Chancellor.

  22. Ukhawk says:

    So frustrated with this year.

  23. Old but Slow says:

    Injuries have become such a determiner. There must be exceptions, but the winners seem often to be the most healthy good teams. There are several teams that have a reasonable chance to reach the top this year, and much of the final result will fall on the injury report. Players falling late, and others coming off the injury list late. It almost seems a good bet to go with the health report above the performance report.

    There is no real reason to believe that Carson would suddenly revitalize the offense, but to have him back late could have that kind of effect. That is the kind of element that can push a team over the top.

  24. Sea Mode says:

    Great points, Rob. Sums up a lot of what has been discussed in the comments recently.

    I think the rest of the games this year will hopefully clear some of these questions up. Will Hill/Darboh/Moore get some playing time and flash their potential? Will Joeckel gain some momentum and prove himself? Will Carson make it back? Will Shead see the field at all?

    So much has changed over the past few weeks, so much could change our outlook over the next few weeks as well.

    At the moment, I still think Sheldon, Jimmy, and McDougald should be re-signed. Joeckel is expendable because of Odhiambo and PRich, while he would be nice to hold on to, can also be replaced by Darboh/Moore and we need to extend Lockett next year instead.

  25. Trevor says:

    Now that Jimmy G and Russ finally have built some chemistry I think JS no brained off season move should be to use the 7.5 mil savings from Avril’s retirement to franchise tag Jimmy. Then if he stays healthy and productive you lock him up longer term he following off-season when we have lots of cap space.

    He is soft but you cannot replace guys who are capable of scoring 10 + Td per year. He finally has our red zone offense looking respectable.

  26. vrtkolman says:

    I really like the Steelers comparison, it’s very fitting. Consistent winning with a lot of inconsistency at playing to their talent level. They have the ability to just blow the doors off of great teams while at the same time playing down to the bottom feeders. Sounds like Seattle to me. The critical aspect of their long run was nailing the Tomlin hire after Cowher left. The Seahawks will be in this position sooner than later.

    PRich will be another Golden Tate I think, a guy who is going to put up big numbers with another team but not someone we are going to dearly miss. I would focus on keeping JG, Sheldon (who is a great teammate according to sports radio), and look to free up some cap money for a big name on offense. I keep putting out Alshon Jeffrey and I just think he would be a monster in this offense. A bigger bodied guy that can stretch the field and has the size to position himself to catch those deep passes that Russell slightly underthrows.

  27. Trevor says:

    Rob two prospects I have done some research and watched any tape I could find on this week are Josh Jackson (cb- Iowa) and Will Hernandez (LG – Utep).

    Really like both guys a lot and from a profile and position standpoint seem like good fits for the Hawks in the late 1st early 2nd range. Both guys seem to play their best against top completion. Check out Hernandez when uTep played the Sooners this year.

    Have you had a chance to check either guy out? Would love to get your opinion as I think your analysis on OL and CB prospects has been really spot on over the years.

  28. Trevor says:

    My top 5 Hawks prospects with pick #1 in the late first likely early 2nd round

    #1 Courtland Sutton WR / SMU- the big dynamic #1 like Mike Evans who would be ideal compliment with Baldwin, Grahams and Lockett in 2018/2019

    #2 josh Jackson CB/Iowa – Big playmaking CB who would be ideal CB opposite Griffin setting up the new version of the LOb.

    #3 Ronnie Harrison SS / Alabama – one guy who could truly replace Kim’s physical pressence in run support

    #4 Will Hernandez LG / UTEP – the best OL prospect in the draft not named Quentin Nelson. This guys is a 330 lb mauling beast who could come in a start day # next to Duane Brown and instantly improve our run game with a classic in blocking LG.

    #5 kerroyon Johnson RB / Auburn – wow what a show he has put on against Alabama and Auburn. Tough true 3 down RB you know PC would love. His 30 + carries and 100+ tough yards against Alabama was on of the most impressive College RB performances I have seen in long time.

    Dream scenarios to fix the run game somewhat the Hawks get both Hernandez and Johnson. If they did I think we have a too 10 rush attack in 2018.

    • Greg Haugsven says:

      Will Hernandez, Nick Chubb, Damien Harris. One of those 3 guys would be good for me. With Free Agency being before the draft we might have an idea of which way they might go. You resign Joeckel and I go RB. You sign a guy like Carlos Hyde then Hernandez sounds good to me. I love Hyde but I think I want a young cost control RB that is hungry.

  29. DC says:

    We are not the Pittsburgh Steelers. Right now we are more like the New Orleans Saints or Green Bay Packers. We each have one recent-ish Championship and a QB that gives you legitimate hope for a title every year. I want to win #2 before we talk about our legacy. And yes we were ohhhh so close…

    • Rob Staton says:

      We’ve been to two Super Bowls with wilson, just like the Steelers had at this point with Ben. Brees and Rodgers have not been to two. And like the Steelers we are/were defense first. GB and NO have never been that.

      • DC says:

        I’m measuring in championships won. When we win the next one we will have matched the R-burger era Steelers. In Super Bowl appearances alone we are between the Steelers(3) & Saints(1)/Packers(1).

    • mishima says:

      Agree. And how has New Orleans turned it around? Transitioned from pass-first offense to a solid run game coupled with a fast, dynamic, young defense. We’re moving in the opposite direction. Gushing over JG’s increased production while not addressing or prioritizing our anemic OL/run game.

      Evidence: 2017 off-season signings of Joeckel, Aboushi, Lacy and not drafting a RB until the 7th round. Sound like a team trying to restore it’s identity as the ‘bully?’ Passing on Cam Robinson because you have Fant! to trade down to pick McDowell when you have Bennett/Avril? After so many years, picks, FAs, we have 2 homgrown OL starters in Britt and Ifedi and 3 new FAs on the OL and will prob lose Joeckel/Aboushi necessitating a ‘new’ OL, again. What is the plan?

  30. Trevor says:

    My initial Hawks 2018 Mock

    * Assumes JS traded down into early 2nd and picks up a 3rd round pick

    Rd #2 Will Hernandez (LG -UTEP) ideal LG to start day #next to Brown and give us a dominant left side to run behind. 2018/19 OL ( Brown LT, Hernandez LG, Britt C, Pocic RG, Ifedi RT) sounds good to me.

    Rd #2 Sheldon Richardson- extended on a deal simialar to Tim Jernigan. The young dynamic DL will the strength of this defense.

    Rd# 3 Isiah Oliver (CB /Col) long, tough CB who would be ideal opposite QGriff. I think he will have the arm length as well.

    Rd #3 Duane Brown – 2 year extension shoring up the LT spot for the next 3 years

    Rd #4 Rashaad Penney (RB SDst) ideal RB to team with Carson. Love this kids game and think he is really underrated.

    Rd#5 Azeem Victor (LB -Wash) has had an awful year on and off field. The Hawks will have to decide on his character but another year removed from the injury I would love to see the Hawks take a flier on a kid who had first round talent.

    Rd#5 Greg Gaines (DT – wash) ideal rotational DT who should have a long solid career

    Rd #5 Hercules (Edge- Wash St) udersized Edge rusher but so dynamic. Could the Hawks turn him into a Bruce Irvin?

    Rd#7 Daniel Carlson (kicker – Auburn) he best college kicker I have ever seen. I would take him as high as the 4th round.

    Rd#7 Develomental WR

    • C-Dog says:

      Nice mock.

      If they don’t go RB early, I would be down for them adding a solid guard. I think Rashaad Penny probably goes Day 2. Gaines probably goes earlier, as well, IMO. I could see them take a late round flyer on Victor.

    • Sea Mode says:

      Really like the direction you take this, Trevor. And the trade down is exactly what I think JS will do, perhaps tossing in a R5 pick into the deal if that’s what it takes to make it work a few spots earlier with whomever our trade partner is.

      I might pass on another DT though since we are so young and so deep there and see if a guy like FB Jaylen Samuels (FB- NC St.) is still on the board. Those pass plays to FB really added a nice dimension to our playbook IMO to keep defenses off balance.

      I love the Penny pick and am little by little warming up to the idea of grabbing a Guard with our first pick in the draft instead of the RB. Make that unit a strength for the future. Though it would have to be someone they really love, because I do think they might just like Odhiambo there if they choose not to re-sign Joeckel. JS said they had Odhi as a top-40 talent if he hadn’t been injured.

      I would also grab Lavon Coleman in R7 if he is still around instead of a developmental WR. I think with Darboh/Moore/Grayson we have enough in development for the time being. Coleman can be the short yardage back as we let Lacy walk.

      So, building on your ideas:

      R2- OG (haven’t watched Hernandez yet; maybe Miss St. Martinas Rankin could be an option)
      R3- CB
      R4- Rashaad Penny
      R5- Azeem Victor
      R5- Jaylen Samuels
      R5- Hercules M./EDGE project (Ogundeko too troubled?)
      R7- Lavon Coleman
      R7- K

      • Volume12 says:

        There’s a rumor that Hercules is only 230 lbs. guys. Gotta wonder with his lack of length if he can add much more weight. Which is unlikely. Meaning, he’s a 3-4 OLB.

        • Greg Haugsven says:

          My only argument is the trade down. Usually when when you go from mid 20’s to early 30’s you would get that teams early 4th. Its probably going to be a team drafting early rather than late. If its a late third round you get then you would also get ther late second rounder which is no good. Im probably confusing people but I think getting a third rounder for going back 10-12 spots might be a little ambitious. Maybe they trade back twice like last year and then use some of those picks to move back into the third. Its getting long now…lol

          • Sea Mode says:

            No, that totally makes sense. That very reason is why I mentioned that we might have to throw in a late R5 pick as well in order to get a R3 pick in return for moving down instead of a R4 like we have the past couple years.

            • Volume12 says:

              It depends on where they’re drafting. If they miss the playoffs, then its not impossible to still trade back and get a 3rd.

              If they make the playoffs and pick in the mid-late 20’s, they can trade out of the 1st and get a 3rd and either a late 4th or early 5th.

              There’s no way in hell, JS skips over day 2 completely.

              Most of the teams that have multiple 2nd and 3rds are teams that have made moves with Seattle too, which bodes well.

              • Greg Haugsven says:

                I agree, you posted the same time i did. The earlier your pick the higher your pick in return. We just want to be in the playoffs…lol

            • Greg Haugsven says:

              I would take that all day. For example: trade pick 25 (guestimate) for say the the Bears pick at 37, pick up there third and give them our 1st and a 5th. Drop down 12 spots and have a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 2 5th’s. Sign me up all day.

              • red says:

                As far as G in this draft I like Braden Smith from Auburn if we can trade back and add a mid third I think he could compete with Glow at RG. Smith already plays RG at Auburn number #69 on NFL Draft Scout. Also Seattle signed Willie Beavers to P Squad was a 4th Rounder in 2016 played LT in college at Western Michigan might be interesting LG convert.

    • drewdawg11 says:

      Oliver is a really good corner. I watched his shut down Dange Pettis and others this season. Long and physical. I wonder how he tests. I’ve been on the Carlson bandwagon since last year when I thought we might take a kicker. I’ve also been thinking that they could replace Jon Ryan and Mitch W. At Utah and JK Scott from Bama are really good and could save cap room.

  31. Preston says:

    If the season ended today, this would be the absolute best time to give Clark an extension rather than wait and see if he has another 10+ sack 2018 season. It might actually be a stroke of luck he isn’t having the same productivity this year. Same with Sheldon. My plan of action would be to prioritize the rising stars like we always have, in the order of difficulty to find talent. Frank, Sheldon, Duane Brown (if new deal is still needed), Marcus Smith, McDougald, Justin Coleman (if new deal is needed), Joeckal, I’m probably forgetting a few THEN Prich. WR has to be the easiest position to find talent for. I’ll bet we draft a kicker too..

  32. House says:

    Life without Kam is scary. For his quality of life, I completely understand and respect whatever route he goes. That guy has played so BIG for us and I have nothing but high praise and respect for him. When you put your body on the line the way he has, it has no option but to start giving out. The same could be said for Avril. I think our FO has done a good job in working to find the “next gen” players for the future. I remember talking about the 2013-2015 Draft classes being for the future and some of those players not having an immediate impact. Grooming players takes time. Finding “potential” to fit a mold you want/need takes patience.

    I rewatched the game and the significant change to the OL was made at RG. Pocic playing next to Ifedi helped out big time. I think that Pocic’s flexibility and prior work at Center will help Ifedi mentally. The communication and unity throughout the game was very noticeable. In the 3rd quarter, Pocic did a great job and I can only see things blossoming with him there.

    The question of whether Joeckel sticks around will be an interesting chat. Without Joeckel, would Odhiambo/Fant fight for the LG position next year?

  33. Hawk Eye says:

    what is with all the talk about people wanting to trade Bennett?
    almost no cap savings and why trade someone who is still very productive and not overpaid. And who replaces him? His contract is not set up to be traded and it sends a bad message to the locker room. NE gets away with it as long as they have Brady. When he is gone, that will change, as will their success. If you want players to take a discount to play for you, you have to show some loyalty to the vets, or no one will give you a break. 2 way street, players talk to each other and they look at these things.

    • Volume12 says:

      Because, he’s in his 30’s and isn’t a flashy new toy. We all know that newer automatically equates to better. And we all know that just because a guy fit a system for another team also means he’d be a good fit for Seattle.

      • red says:

        Julius Peppers is 37 and has 8.5 sacks, T Suggs is 35 has 9.5 sacks some pass rushers age well.

        • drewdawg11 says:

          Bennett hasn’t been playing at a high level this season, merely flashes of his former self. The trade thing isn’t about immediate savings, but the fact that we have no draft capital. If he were balling out every game this wouldn’t even be a thought. He hasn’t this season. The decline happens fast with guys in the trenches. I worry that this is trending down. Also… can we stop with the offsides penalties??? I feel like it’s getting worse and hate usually a sign of a guy who is losing a step and needs to cheat even more. At this point you’re going to have to start trying to extend frank. They can’t keep everyone.

  34. SheHawk says:

    JS will work his magic but in end likely we’renot keeping all our UFAs. I’m passionate about 3
    #1= JG is not replaceable, especially if he is willing to compromise a bit on contract. Feel we must keep him……for the TDs, his chemistry with RW, what he opens up in red zone… if I’m Jimmy I may be mad at how long it took coaches to figure out how to use me, BUT that is behind us now….. I’d be wondering if I left would my next team stumble around sorting it out and waste what could be some peak years??… So barring New Orleans making a play ( totally possible -if not probable) I stay that….+ where else can I fly my seaplane to work??
    #2 Sheldon. All the hand ringing over sack counts is over thinking it.. He is an awesome athlete who makes the entire DL better. He just fits in so well to our D vide. Nuf said LOVE him and he’s only 27!
    #3 Mc Dougal. There is absolutely no replacement for Kam . Hill is probably our long term future but we can still win NOW with McDougal!! (especially with Earl in and getting back Griffin….and Wagoner playing like DMVP) the Eagle will be test for life with out Kam. 😨 My prediction is we play well and our rook get his first pick…

    Please STOP suggesting we trade Sherman for a pick. He is the quintessential Seahawks DB and does so much for our community and his fellow players. We need all three of them ( #31, #29 and #25) to retire as seahawks -go into HOF So we 12s can retire their numbers up their with Easley. We have been BLESSED to watch them play together for as long as we did. We’ll be telling our grand kids about them…..like the Bears D of 80s

    ps- if Kam retires he should start his coaching career tomorrow as Seahawks assistant or scout. We need him in the building for all his leadership and character.
    Go hawks

    • Sea Mode says:

      Right on! Well said on all points!

    • mishima says:

      Jimmy Graham, 2017: 81 targets / 49 catches / about 60%. 31 years old, ruptured patellar tendon in 2016 which should result in loss of speed/athleticism going forward.

      Not opposed to re-signing JG, but at what cost and for how long? 3 years / 24 million / 14 guaranteed?

      My stupid vote: Swoopes, Vannett, return to run game.

      • Greg Haugsven says:

        Im torn as well, I think I would prefer a run first tight end as well but dont have strong feelings either way.

      • Sea Mode says:

        May I ask why you choose to leave out the, um, small detail regarding his 8 TD in the last 7 games? Just sayin…

        You are of course right that he may lose speed/athleticism as he ages, regardless of the injury history or not. The good thing is, his game relies more on his size than on his speed, so he should still be a weapon even into his mid thirties. Think Antonio Gates (7 TD last year at 36yrs), Tony Gonzalez (8 TD at 37yrs), etc.

        • Greg Haugsven says:

          8 TD’s is great but that doesnt mean we dont score touchdowns on those drives. Other guys can score as well. Doug scored 14 a couple seasons ago with most of those coming in the red zone. I think we all want to be a run first team and I dont think you can with him on the team. If we dont care about being a run first team then I think Graham stays. At least thats my view on this topic.

        • mishima says:

          8 TDs in 7 games is great. Against ARI, he averaged 4.5 yards/catch, but scored twice. Against LAR, he averaged 6.2 yards/catch, but scored once. Questionable production EXCEPT in the red zone (and that’s if you’re being nice and ignoring the red zone drops).

          Numbers out of context are meaningless. JG is being targeted more (on pace for 118) in/out of the red zone. Arguably, he’s our only red zone weapon. More chances, more scores. Against shit show teams, he’s done pretty well. When a good team knocks him around, he’ll disappear.

          • Greg Haugsven says:

            Because hes been hanging out with Shawn Alexander. Just like Charmin.

          • AlaskaHawk says:

            Any of our tight ends would have 8 touchdowns if Wilson would throw to them. Vannett just caught a touchdown as they targeted him. Love Graham but his catch percentage is low- and it has cost the SeHawks dearly a couple times in dropped balls.
            As far as I can tell this is another Kam extension moment. Sign the aging tight end – or pass.

            • peter says:

              I’ll split your comment in two.

              I don’t think any of the TE’s would have the same success with TD’s frankly since Willson has been notorious for his drops as often as his great plays. Plus Alaska, that thinking discounts that nearly every QB in history has “go to,” players. Maybe Vannett’s better than Graham? THough I doubt it, Graham and Wilson have a rapport that has made the brutally anemic red zone offense into something that works.

              That said, I had my doubts about the Kam contract and I have doubts about Graham. People talk about how he’s soft but in what way would he be a harder player? he boxes out defenders in the end zone and gets first downs in the middle of the field. He is clearly losing explosiveness or rather he may not need it with how Seattle runs it’s plays. I do worry if in two years we the fans will look back at a Graham extension and wonder if it’s worth it….

              • Greg Haugsven says:

                How you would play harder is by delivering hits and not going down when someone touches you. He is 265 lbs. He should be rocking people and fighting for extra yards. He reminds me so much of the way Shawn Alexander plays. Very skilled but goes down way to easy.

                • peter says:

                  in his whole career he’s never been that type of player though so why would he start now? i can see wanting that from him but for me I’ll take the current red zone production which has been sorely lacking minus Baldwin’s great season.

                  • Greg Haugsven says:

                    He was soft in New Orleans as well, just watch how easy he goes down. JS also said he wanted to be the bully again. Jimmy Graham takes you away from that. Maybe you and I are watching different guys but the winds blows to hard and he is on the ground.

                  • peter says:

                    the subtext was that graham was never a run guys over player in new Orleans. also I think john Schneider as a rule should keep the bully comments to himself. Seattle a bully online a bully secondary, and a bully running game. they let giac and sweezy go, trade Unger for a finesse athlete in graham, rapidly approach the running back position with mixed results, put nothing into the SAM spot, rely on FA finds until recently for a dline…..

                    instead they may have kept one or more of those online players, drafted the biggest/strongest Db’ s knowing sooner or later father time always wins, skip the procise and p-rich picks….high upside but minimal intimidation factor, not traded for the oft injured Percival Garvin, and I love graham but not trade for a super athletic finesse TE when what you need are in line blocking guys.

  35. Greg Haugsven says:

    When it comes to Paul Richardson, would you rather extend him and lose Lockette after next season. Or let Paul walk and resign Tyler. Basically if you have to pick one of the two which one would you want to keep?

    • Aaron says:

      Tyler Lockett every day, and twice on Sunday. Both have a injury history but Tyler’s is much shorter a history. It’d be hard to see PRich go but we have the guys to replace and continue.

      • Volume12 says:

        Bingo.

      • Greg Haugsven says:

        That sounds like a good line from a Few Good Men. I like it. I think I would take Lockette as well. Plus he is our kick returner.

        • JimQ says:

          If the Seahawks are able to draft RB-Rashaad Penny, he could take some pressure off Lockett’s return duties. To date in his career, Penny has 78 KO returns for 2354-yds, **30.18/avg. & 7-TD’s**. The KO returns can be a big source of injury especially for a small guy like Lockett, so him not having to do that and lightening his lode is a plus. Lockett should be seeing more and more targets as a WR as a result, ’cause he’s pretty darn good as both a WR & as a punt returner.

    • cha says:

      I think Lockett isn’t at 100% explosiveness as he’s still less than a year removed from a pretty gruesome injury.

      He will be huge in 2018.

  36. Greg Haugsven says:

    I asked Jason Fitzgerald from overthecap about Kam’s contract and his $12 million injury guarantee and this is what he said.

    Me: Would he be able to get that $12 million if he retires, even if it was because of the injury?

    Jason: No I think he would need to force the Seahawks hand and have them either cut him or place him on IR. Now the Seahawks may have some kind of insurance on him, but generally a decision to walk away from the NFL for whatever reason would void the guarantees. Retirement could also allow a team to recover the signing bonus money already paid out.

    • Greg Haugsven says:

      Unless he just wants to call it quits most likely he will be a Seahawk next year.

      • Trevor says:

        I would be shocked not to see Kam back next year unless this injury really has the chance to impact his long term health. He does not seem like the type of guy who would want to go out like this.

        I would love to see him and Sherm come back healthy and hungry to give the LOB one last SB run.

    • Kenny Sloth says:

      Thought I doubt they would seek his bonus even if they were pressed for cap space

  37. Icb12 says:

    What are the odds Carson Palmer hangs up the cleats and the Cardinals go after Eli Manning?

    I have to think that Jacksonville, Buffalo, and Arizona would be interested.
    Although Buffalo shouldn’t be.

  38. Volume12 says:

    God I wish Iowa St HB David Montgomery was draft eligible. What a fit he’d be in Seattle. Perfect in every sense of the word actually.

  39. Trevor says:

    This is going to sound a little crazy but one player I really hope the Seahawks draft is Auburn Kicker Daniel Carlson.

    Our kicking game has been a mess the last two years and has cost us at least 3 games. He has been clutch for Auburn for years and has a huge leg. Whenever I see him in a big game he is money.

    I am not saying an early round pick but if he is there in the 5th I would not be upset if we used one of our picks in him.

    • red says:

      Might hunt for a Punter as well Ryan has been good but we free up 2 mil if cut.

    • peter says:

      I don’t think it’s crazy at all. I dont get how people say “you never draft a kicker,” Me I’m all about using a fifth round pick if it means 2 more wins right now.

      Walsh has to be done after this year. I’m not a fan who puts any losses on kickers because realistically the goal should to not be in a game where you need three or more field goals to win a game.

      however…I’m a realist and blair walsh did have the chance to win and tie games this year on his own.

      I guess the thinking was hauscha was worth 12 mill over 4 years and Blair Walsh is a little over a mil per year. SO you’ve got to save money where you can.

  40. mishima says:

    Rob / anyone,

    Possible that they are planning on franchising S. Richardson? With 2019 looking like a rebuild year, maybe we lock him up for one while working on an extension. Would allow some flexibility as we free up cap space, try to extend other pending FAs (Clark), pursue other needs.

    • Forty20 says:

      It was mentioned on the blog this week but the Hawks might be able to negotiate around the framework of the Tim Jernigan/Eagles deal (4 years/$48 million). Jernigan, like Richardson, has been awesome against the run but hasn’t had huge sack production from the interior (2.5).

  41. Forty20 says:

    There is a nice moment with Kam and Britt at the end of the All Access footage against the Niners (~6:21). Walking off the field in the post-game, Kam points at Britt ”Y’all should have seen this man on the screen play. Levvveeelllled them! Wooo!”.

    It wasn’t anything huge by any means but it was encouraging to see Kam just being Kam out there.

  42. JC says:

    So Mark Walton is declaring for 2018 draft… He’s intriguing at RB. He’s got pass catching skills, plays special teams as KR or kicking team. Not quite the 225 lb mold, but given this year, maybe this offense is evolving

  43. arias says:

    The Patriots are what they are because Belichick’s GM philosophy has always been that he’d rather get rid of a player one year too early than a year too late.

    I think we’re seeing the flip side of that the hard way this year. I was surprised when Kam was re-signed. It was emotionally satisfying at the time, but no doubt Belichick would have never taken that risk with an aging and banged up Chancellor at Kam’s price tag.

    Belichick’s had some successful reclamation projects on players who were considered to be done, with Rodney Harrison coming immediately to mind. But he was gotten on the cheap because the Chargers thought he was done.

    But the OTC analysis on Kam’s contract and dead money charge means that Kam will surely be on the team next year even if he can’t play. That’s gotta hurt.

    • AlaskaHawk says:

      I was fine with Kams extension except they had to be able to cut him easily if he got injured. It is no secret that his body has delivered hard hits and would fail rapidly. To much sentiment in the GM spot.

    • Kenny Sloth says:

      I would rather lose the super bowl every year than be a fan of that soulless death star of a franchise.

      I would rather have the pain of watching our stars wither and retire in our colors than trade em for a 4th that doesn’t matter.

      An immortal Russ that simulates aging to make us more comfortable and the ghost of Earl Thomas roaming the middle third

      • Hawk Eye says:

        it is not all about money and victory. Have to treat people decently also. The obsession to win at all costs rips out your soul. While most teams cheat to some degree, I do think the Pats do it more and do it better.
        I do think Bellicheck may be the greatest coach in NFL history, but hard to call anyone the greatest, too many variables. But top 5 for sure. But top 5 greatest PERSON? Not a chance. Pete wins and I think treats his players pretty well. Proud of him for that.
        Would Brady be the greatest QB ever if he played for the Browns? Doubt it. I think it is impossible to call any football player the GOAT. I recognize his greatness, but I am highly suspicious of his athletic performance at age 40, especially considering who his trainer is. PED’s don’t make him a great QB, but they would extend his career. Even though at least half of the NFL probably uses or has used PED’s (including the Hawks), the Pats have a taint about them that makes their winning insufferable. If the Hawks don’t win it this year (still hoping!) I just hope the Pats don’t. Throwing up in my mouth just thinking about it. Ugh!

      • 12th chuck says:

        Thank you Kenny,

      • John_s says:

        These are tough decisions that NFL teams need to make.

        It’s no different than trading Kearse who has some of the most memorable plays in Seahawks history or lowballing Golden Tate after he was our best WR or choosing not to resign Bruce Irvin, Russell Okung, Malcolm Smith and cutting Red Bryant and Chris Clemons.

        All of those guys had a huge impact on our SB team and there could are multiple reasons why people could justify that they should have been Seahawks for life, but the organization chose to let them go.

        It’s no different with the other players discussed on the board.

        Heck Joe Montana and Jerry Rice did not stay with the Niners! Two of the best players ever.

    • H says:

      Im really getting fed up of this narrative, that we should do what the pats do and trade all our good players “a year too early”. Look at the pats roster, its not that good. Its competitive but outside of Brady and Gronk there are no stars. Their system works because they have the best player and the best coach in the history of football. It wouldnt work for us. We have neither of those things. Without the likes of Bennett, Sherm, Kam or others people are calling to cut or traded. We’d be a worse team.
      And as Kenny says the Patriots are a soulless organisation of cheats and Trump fans. Who wants to be like them anyway?

      • Ed says:

        It’s not just Brady and Gronk. It’s how terrible their division (Jets/Dolphins/Bills) has been for almost 20 years and how mediocre the entire AFC has been.

        Brady/Manning/Rothlesberger

        NFC

        Manning/Favre/Rodgers/Brees/Romo/Stafford/Ryan/Newton/Palmer

        The Patriots can cruise to the playoffs and then scheme 3 games to win SB.

        • Rob Staton says:

          It’s exactly that. The Pats basically get a free hit into the playoffs every year.

          And when they get there, they’ve had some pretty damning losses (the Baltimore games, Denver). Only recently the AFC has got weaker and weaker and it’s made life easier and easier for them.

        • Hawk Eye says:

          that certainly plays into the Pats genius. Easy to look like an eagle when everyone else is a turkey. Jets, Bills and Dolphins cannot offer a threat to the Pats like the 49’ers, Cards and Rams have offered the hawks the last 6-7 years.
          sometimes life is just unfair…..

        • Kenny Sloth says:

          Is Joe Flacco Elite?!

  44. Forty20 says:

    Garrison Smith waived and Rodney Coe promoted from the practice squad. Coe showed some promise in the preseason and moved pretty well for a big body. Given that Smith hadn’t exactly done much wrong I wonder if another team was sniffing around Coe, much like the situation with David Moore.

  45. Kenny Sloth says:

    I just realized that college (american) football has been played in Mexico for almost 100 years and I think I’m gonna cry.

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .
    CAN YOU IMAGINE THE TOUCHDOWN CALLS

  46. Forty20 says:

    Pardon the off-topic effort but Jarran Reed is quickly becoming one of my favourite Hawks. Asides from becoming an increasingly dominant factor in the trenches, his sense of fashion is right up there with ETIII.

    https://twitter.com/DavisHsuSeattle/status/935712208712904704

  47. Hawk Eye says:

    interesting article about Kam, Avril, etc
    https://chawktalk.com/2017/11/28/hawks-face-a-lynch-scenario-with-avril-kam/#more-10696

    he also mentions that he thinks Malik will never play for the Hawks. I know there were comments when the accident happened, and he is reading between the lines with his comment, but not sure how he gets hurt to that degree. If JPP can play with half a hand, what is the injury that is career threatening?
    Wondering if this is idle speculation or is this another issue the Hawks have to overcome.

    for sure, no matter how all these turn out, the Hawks will have a lot of changes in the next 2 years and we will see whether or not JS is one of the best around at his craft.

    • C-Dog says:

      That sort of cryptic speculation about McDowell has been around for a while. Hawkblogger had a national NFL insider reporter on his podcast at the beginning of the the season and the dude was saying that the word that was coming back to him wasn’t good, and it would be something towards a blessing if he were to play a meaningful snap of football again. He was definitely hearing an injury that was, at least potentially, career threatening. Playing the speculation game, I think there could have been a brain injury involved. By law, the team can’t disclose, and you can kinda read the tea leaves.

    • Greg Haugsven says:

      I wonder where he gets his information about Malik. I would be careful about saying that on your site unless he is one of Malik’s doctors.

    • Kenny Sloth says:

      Hot take alert; non-doctor give medical opinion, masquerades as a team trainer at night.

      Just cuz someone has a website doesn’t mean they couldn’t just say it to Twitter

  48. Ground_Hawk says:

    Watched PC’s Monday presser, and I thought this was an interesting tidbit:

    Reporter: “Saw Russel have huge second half numbers again. What allows him to be such a good finisher in games?”

    PC: “Well, I wish I knew it so well that I could make it happen in the first half.”

    Pete went on to praise RW, for his second half heroics, but this comment also highlights that PC is well aware of the offenses first half struggles, and indicates that this is something that he thinks about. I only bring this up because I think it is evidence that PC, as well as other viewers of Seahawk football, are genuinely concerned with how the offense performs in the first half, and causes wonder as to why this is happening. I don’t claim to have the answer, and it appears that Pete doesn’t have it either. He is known as a defensive minded coach after all, so maybe he is now thinking critically about the offensive side’s methods? Why wouldn’t he? The offense is consistently struggling in the first half, and it’s blatantly obvious.

    The reporter asks Pete about RW around 1:30 into the video: http://www.seahawks.com/video/2017/11/27/pete-carroll-week-13-monday-press-conference

    • C-Dog says:

      He further went on to explain that, at times, Russell takes a bit to get a feel for how the defense his playing him, and then between him and Daryl Bevel, they adjust. Kind of like how a boxer will set up an opponent. Also, kind of like how a running back needs to get in a flow.

      As a life long Seahawks fan, it feels very much like how Elway played at times. For about three quarters of football. it felt like your defense had his number, and then in the fourth quarter you feel them all grabbing for the Oh Sh#t bars because Elway just starts taking it over with his arm and legs.

      • Sea Mode says:

        I’m sure it’s easier said than done, but I would hope that RW at this point in his career would be good enough to take what he sees in film prep the week before and draw from previous matchup experience with that opponent to already have that feel before the game even starts for pretty much how they are going to play us.

        Ok, maybe your first couple drives you have some designed plays to feel the defense out (we know Bevell usually has about 20 of those drawn up for each game), but the entire first half or 3 quarters…?

        NFCW teams and others like ATL whom we’ve played a lot the last couple years shouldn’t change that much as far as schemes and coverages. Even personnel for the most part that you can pick on.

        • C-Dog says:

          I’m sure that he does, but it could also be that since he is a unique player at the position, he knows those defenses are going to go at him differently, and they are looking to see how they are defending.

    • cha says:

      Feels like he tries to do too much in the first half. Isn’t in game rhythm and tries throws that require a high degree of precision.

      I don’t know if this applies to all games, but he sure did try some high-risk/high-reward throws in the first half of the Niner game when he had low-risk/drive extending options open in the flat.

  49. Logan Lynch says:

    After having the discussion of Sherm potentially moving to safety in the future, it was actually addressed in the Q&A on the official website. Interesting read and brought up pretty much everything we talked about.

    http://www.seahawks.com/news/2017/11/28/offense%E2%80%99s-first-and-second-half-disparities-running-back-rotation-more-week%E2%80%99s

    • Ground_Hawk says:

      Thanks for the link LL. While watching the presser I picked up on Pete talking about how RW and Bevell adapt as the game goes on to find success, but that still does not solve this seasons slow starts. It’s going to be tough for Seattle, starting slow like they have been this year, to go into the playoffs playing against teams like Philly and NO; teams that lead the league in scoring early, and who continue to put points on the board throughout the entire game.

      2nd half points:
      https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/2nd-half-points-per-game:
      Philly ranks 1st @ 16.5 pts/game
      NO ranks 2nd @ 15.6 pts/game
      SEA ranks 3rd @ 15 pts/game

      1st half points:
      https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/1st-half-points-per-game:
      Philly ranks 3rd @ 15.4 pts/game
      NO ranks 5th @ 13.4 pts/game
      SEA ranks 23rd @ 9.2 pts/game

      • Sea Mode says:

        Good stats to know, thanks. Definitely can’t gift them an early lead like vs. ATL.

      • Logan Lynch says:

        Completely agree. If SEA can somehow figure out how to consistently score early it could have a huge effect on their defense. Give them a bit of a lead early on and that puts more pressure on the opposing offense which could in turn lead to more turnovers. Maybe Shaq can get his first pick this week…

  50. Greg Haugsven says:

    With all these discussions about extending or cutting players (Bennett, Chancellor, Avril, Thomas) we haven’t really talked about KJ Wright. What would you want to do with him as 2018 is the last year of his contract. You cant have a bunch of 30 year olds on your team but he is a very good player. Here is your 3 options:

    Option 1: Extend him in the offseason

    Option 2: Let him play out this year then let him walk

    Option 3: Let him play out this season and see after next year.

    If you pick option 3 would you want him back after that only really knowing what you know now or is it time to find a young speedster at LB?

    • Old but Slow says:

      Wright is aging well. His anticipation is unmatched, anything to his side is well covered. He seems as good today as he ever has been, and maybe better. And, he stays healthy. He seems worthy of another couple of year, IMO.

    • Magmatizer says:

      KJ has been very productive beside Bobby, and has not shown signs of slowing down. He’s never been a speedster and predicates his game on play recognition and sound technique, a skill set that shouldn’t waver as he moves towards his 30s. At this point, I wouldn’t consider option 2 unless the market indicates a huge payday for someone at his position. The homer in me wants to say sign him at year end, and hope the Hawks stop putting him on receiving TEs in coverage.

  51. Greg Haugsven says:

    Not only are we home dogs for the first time in a while but the Eagles are favored by 6. That’s a lot.

  52. Old but Slow says:

    This is the kind of game we should welcome. Are we a contender? Yes, we are, and we should anticipate being tested. Win or loss, this is a prep for the playoffs, and the Seahawks have a good cadre of players to meet it.

    Injuries happen to all teams, so that cannot be a caveat. Play your hearts out, Seahawks.

    I am optimistic beyond all logic. (It’s not really all that unlikely)

    • Sea Mode says:

      Well said!

      I also like our chances. Even if it technically isn’t a “must win”, it sure feels like it emotionally and I have a feeling our boys will be out to prove something after two straight losses in front of their home crowd.

    • Logan Lynch says:

      I share that logic-defying optimism! If nothing else, these next games will be a true test for the team. Either they win enough of them to make it into the playoffs and prove their mettle or they don’t make it in and know what needs to be done in the offseason to improve.

      • Hawk Eye says:

        I am looking for the Hawks to make a statement. They tend to play well when everyone says they won’t. They have lost 2 straight at home and this game will go a long way in determining if they are a contender or a pretender. Whenever I look at other sites, they all talk about the decline of the Hawks defense and how terrible their offense is. The D has slipped, but is still top 10 in yards and points. The O is not great and we all know their flaws, but is also top 10 in yards and points. And the “hawks have the worst O line in the league” is not true anymore, but they all say it like it is gospel. Seattle loses to GB in GB with Rodgers and Pitt barely beats GB in Pitt with no Rodgers, but Pitt is legit and the Hawks are dogs???
        Not much respect out there for the Hawks, so I hope they send a message that they are not done.

        Go HAWKS!

        • Sea Mode says:

          Amen! We weren’t even listed in the top 8 possible contenders for SB this year according to some. And the Rams are?

          http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000885214/article/best-chances-to-win-super-bowl-lii-eagles-patriots-look-strong

          I get that we are not favorites, especially after all the injuries, but anyone who knows how to look beyond the win/loss record and actually see how close some of those losses were knows we could easily be 9-1 right now like the Eagles. There is still a lot of football left to play in December. And I would think our track record over the past few years would have them know we are always dangerous, but I guess “what have you done for me lately” rules in much of the media as well.

    • cha says:

      Absolutely!

      I get so sick of fans complaining about a tough schedule or saying “I hope other team’s star player misses the game vs the Hawks” and then “boo hoo, looks like he’ll be playing.”

      Stuff that. Every game is a playoff game from now on. Saddle up.

  53. Sea Mode says:

    Recent PS additions perhaps an early indication of some positions they might be looking at in the draft?

    “The Seahawks also added two players to the practice squad, signing offensive lineman Willie Beavers (6-5, 322) and tight end Steve Donatell (6-6, 241). Fullback Kyle Coleman was released from the practice squad.

    Beavers, a fourth-round pick in the 2016 draft out of Western Michigan, appeared in two games with Minnesota last season. Beavers also spent time on the practice squad with Minnesota and New England this year. Donatell, an undrafted rookie out of Western Kentucky, spent training camp with the Seahawks.”

  54. EP says:

    As much as the injuries to Sherman, Chancellor and Avril lead to questions about their future longevity, in some cases, as the 3 of them are already at a relatively advanced age, an injury that forces them to miss half a season may in fact be beneficial for them in the long term. Provided the injuries to Avril and Chancellor are not career threatening, they may return next year at their previous high level. With Earls injury last year and questions of retirement I personally didn’t think he would return to his previous level but it seems that he has elevated his level this year in spite of his injury. It might be better to sacrifice one year to give you a shot at playing many more.

    • Sea Mode says:

      Hmmm, interesting thought for sure. Probably depends of course on the injury.

      ET’s potential consequences could have been losing speed or re-injury to leg. Kam and Avril’s seem to be much more serious risk for them long-term. (just speculating from what has been said and the tone it has been said in. I have no real info more than that.)

  55. Kenny Sloth says:

    Woof, nice draw, Rob.

    Brazil is as strong as ever and Denmark are no pushover.

    I haven’t seen any Morocco, but I’m rooting for Panama in their first world cup.

  56. Greg Haugsven says:

    Man is these last 5 weeks going to be fun in the NFC. Lots of teams playing one another. Really 7 teams for 6 spots. Here are the remaining games for all 7 teams:

    Seahawks: Eagles, @Jaguars, Rams, @Cowboys, Cardinals

    Eagles: @Seahawks, @Rams, @Giants, Raiders, Cowboys

    Panthers: @Saints, Vikings, Packers (maybe with Rodgers), Bucs, @Falcons

    Falcons: Vikings, Saints, @Bucs, @Saints, Panthers

    Saints: Panthers, @Falcons, Jets, Falcons, @Bucs

    Vikings: @Falcons, @Panthers, Bengals, @Packers (maybe with Rodgers), Bears

    Rams: @Cardinals, Eagles, @Seahawks, @Titans, 49ers

    Looks like the Eagles have the easiest path to the #1 seed but the other 6 teams all play tough games against one another. Should be very interesting.

    • Hawk Eye says:

      one of the Falcons, Saints and Panthers won’t make it, they have to beat each other up to get there
      I can see the Rams going 2-3 the rest of the way. if they do better, then they are legit. Hope the cards play them tough.
      should be Eagles and Vikings for top 2 seeds, probably.
      But who knows? That is why they play the games. Probably 4 new playoff teams in the NFC this year.

  57. PowerPeanut says:

    Seems that Hill and Griffin are forming a good friendship. Very Off-topic, but I do strongly belive that good connection off-field in almost every case makes the on-field connection very strong.

  58. STTBM says:

    Late to the party, so dont know if anyone will read this…

    Rob, excellent analysis. I dont agree on everything there regarding Seattle/Pats/Shitsburgh, but your take is an excellent read and your logic is interesting.

    I think Seattle could well end up operating alot like Pittsburgh has, IF Carrol will stop meddling with the offense. They are better off when he isnt pushing for time for his favorite players (think Ricardo Lockette on offense, Lacy starting, etc). And Seattle is much better off when they do whatever it takes to win–ala the Pats–instead of mindlessly running the ball up the gut for -2 to +2 yards all the time as Carroll has tried to make us do all too often. They have the qb and WR’s to throw two out of three downs, and RB’s who can catch but for whatever reason cant run, and a line that against all odds stinks at run blocking but can usually pass pro well enough for Wilson to work his magic.

    But its frustrating to see Seattle max out the cap and burn picks on bandaid fixes for a line theyve already invested far too much in to see so little returns, and then struggle the past couple seasons while the Pats just endlessly adapt and keep winning.

    Carrol almost seems as if he’d rather lose games and not make the playoffs trying to run with a team that cant, then to adapt and go with whats working–which is to pass the damn ball 2/3 of the time.

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