Seahawks RT Garry Gilliam got a +5.3 grade by PFF. Highest on the team this week
— Magnus Bendixen (@BendixenNFL) November 30, 2015
I’ve included the Tweet above not because I have any faith in PFF (here’s one reason why). After all, how could anyone receive a higher than Russell Wilson and Doug Baldwin yesterday? Even so, it’s perhaps a sign that at least to some people, Garry Gilliam is showing signs of improvement.
That’s big for the Seahawks in 2015 and beyond.
They clearly have a lot of time for Gilliam. It’d be wrong to expect the finished article this year. He’s a converted tight end thrust into a starting role after the first week of pre-season because Justin Britt was struggling badly at right tackle.
It was a baptism of fire and he had a few iffy weeks. Is the game starting to slow down? Maybe. Russell Wilson’s mobility and nature to improvise requires good protection on the right side. He often scrambles that way when he’s looking downfield and trying to extend the play. It’s what he does. Gilliam has been a liability in that regard for much of the year. Is he turning the corner?
Better play from the tackle equals better performances from the quarterback. And that’s partly responsible for Wilson’s current tear.
For the future? It could mean you don’t need to replace Gilliam at right tackle. They might believe he can replace Russell Okung on the left (a topic we discussed earlier in the season). Either way — if Gilliam establishes himself as a long term fixture — the maximum tackles you need to sign or draft in the off-season is one. If you re-sign Okung it’s zero. That offers genuine draft flexibility. It’s up to Gilliam to prove he warrants the trust.
If, as Jason La Canfora suggested yesterday, Marshawn Lynch and his salary move on — it creates some extra free cash. With the cap set to rise again too it might be possible to re-sign Okung and J.R. Sweezy and maintain some consistency there.
Adding a veteran center feels inevitable with no Pouncey-esque prospect in this draft class. If they keep Okung and Sweezy, is there enough free cap to go after Alex Mack if his contract voids? Possibly.
It’d still be worthwhile adding some further competition and depth. That’s why a prospect like Pittsburgh’s Adam Bisnowaty — with similar size and characteristics to Evan Mathis — could be a nice option in the round 2-3 range. If he doesn’t start immediately at guard — he’s a swing tackle option.
If you’re going into the draft with Okung, Sweezy and Mack signed up (and yes, it’s a big IF) — it frees up the possibility to look at different needs in round one.
With a distinctly average looking class for defensive linemen — linebacker (replacing Bruce Irvin) and cornerback (an increasing need) could come into play. In particular at corner — Tre’Davious White (LSU), Eli Apple (Ohio State), Cameron Sutton (Tennessee) and Mackensie Alexander (Clemson) could be appealing.
This will be especially true if the top offensive linemen leave the board quickly (Coleman, Tunsil, Decker, Conklin, Stanley).
I wouldn’t expect the Seahawks to be in range to draft LSU’s White. An exceptional athlete with ideal size, he’s highly respected and was awarded the coveted Tigers’ #18 jersey for this season. He’s going to go early — possibly top ten. He’s not a freak of nature like Patrick Peterson but he could be LSU’s best defensive back prospect since Arizona’s all-pro.
Apple plays like a Seahawks corner — keeps the receiver in front, doesn’t get beat downfield but will at times concede position in the shorter-to-medium range. He gave up some catches facing off against Michigan State’s Aaron Burbridge — but even then, it was only a 62-yard display. Bright guy — like White. Suspect he’ll need a bit of time to pick up a new scheme and then watch him excel. The potential is there to be a big-time player at the next level.
Cameron Sutton might be the most toolsy of the quartet. Again, like White and Apple, he’s an impressive talker and student of the game. Like White and Apple, he’ll wow GM’s and scouts during meetings. He’s a shade under 6-0 but appears to have a long frame and incredible athleticism/upside. He’ll work to pick up the scheme and excel.
Mackensie Alexander is, as you’ve probably guessed, another thoughtful talker who understands the importance of preparation and technical execution. He’s very physical and sparky too — emphasised by a bout of jawing at the South Carolina bench at the weekend. He’s been a gradual riser this year and he’ll have a chance to perform in the playoffs presuming Clemson defeats North Carolina to win the ACC title.
Four good options there and food for thought. I’d have no issue grading each of these corners in the top-15/20. Of course, it doesn’t always work out that way. DeAndre Hopkins and Joel Bitonio looked like top-20 talents and they lasted. Ditto Jimmy Smith in 2011.
(A reminder that I don’t believe Florida’s overrated Vernon Hargreaves will be a first round pick, while Virginia Tech’s Kendall Fuller and Mississippi State’s Will Redmond are battling serious leg injuries. Iowa’s Desmond King is intriguing, while Oklahoma’s Zack Sanchez has turned his season around in the last few weeks).
As for receivers — perhaps the Seahawks can learn something from the Steelers?
After spending first round picks on Percy Harvin and Jimmy Graham — and having to live with the expectation of production to justify the moves — the Steelers’ way of doing things might be more suitable for this franchise.
The Seahawks were basically very similar to begin with. They set out to find sudden, explosive receivers. Golden Tate and Doug Baldwin emerged, as did Jermaine Kearse eventually. They got what they needed out of all three. Adding Harvin and now Graham came with the pressure to get them ‘touches’ — to satisfy a media thirst for production, to justify the outlay and cost.
That same pressure simply doesn’t exist with Tyler Lockett — who cost a third round pick. It still isn’t there for undrafted free agents Baldwin and Kearse. It won’t be there for Paul Richardson, Kevin Smith or Kasen Williams.
For whatever reason this Seahawks offense operates just fine without the big name. Without the star player. That’s not to say it wasn’t starting to really function with Graham (who had a fine game before his injury). Now it’s forced to turn to Baldwin, Kearse, Lockett, Luke Willson and hopefully Richardson — who’d bet against it continuing to function? Even without Marshawn Lynch.
Pittsburgh lined up the most explosive trio of receivers in the NFL yesterday. Speed, tenacity and game-changing ability. Markus Wheaton was drafted in round three. Martavis Bryant was drafted in round four. Antonio Brown? A sixth rounder.
Wheaton and Bryant were not unknowns. They just provided value and explosive plays. Brown is a genuine success story — and credit the Steelers for developing and trusting him when the world and his dog was calling for them to pay Mike Wallace or Emmanuel Sanders instead.
The fact they had Wallace (a third rounder) and Sanders (a third rounder) too merely adds to the point. They know what they want and where to get it in the draft. The Seahawks have shown they can have similar success — emphasised by the emergence of Lockett and their history with Tate, Baldwin and Kearse. Hopefully Richardson can stay healthy for a stretch in his Seahawks career to have a consistent impact.
Instead of chasing the big name — it’s time to start using their early draft stock on needs and re-commit to finding receivers later on, to continue re-stocking their group with explosive receivers who don’t necessarily have the ideal size but make up for it with suddenness, a crisp release and downfield skill.
Not every pick will hit. Not every pick is going to be a Wheaton or Bryant. They’ll be incredibly fortunate to land another Brown — but it’s worth a try. It feels like the right way forward for the Seahawks. And they might have to continue adding at wide out with Kearse a free agent in the off-season and Baldwin a free agent after 2016.
“With the cap set to rise again too it might be possible to re-sign Okung and J.R. Sweezy and maintain some consistency there.”
Don’t disagree, but when the cap rises, salaries usually follow suit and so “more cap room” is a bit of a red herring.
Hasn’t been so far for the Seahawks — the cap rise has enabled them to keep a good young core together without overpaying much at all.
Keep the line together. If Gary Gilliam turns the corner, it will be a miraculous story, and most all of us will gladly eat crow. Don’t left Okung walk and make him the LT. Remember when Big Walt was finally toast during Jim Mor Jr’s One and Done Season, and they shifted a good Pass Pro RT in Sean Locklear to the left side? Yeah, that’s when Mora starting crying for the need for more “dirt bags.” If this line turns the corner, and Cable was right all along, the line that stays together, plays well together.
Plenty of other areas of need with depth concerns and contracts coming up. WR, CB, LB, DT, RB, Center. Two areas they consistently draft high on, even occasionally reach on are OL, WR, and Pass Rusher. I think they still draft OL high, and probably wouldn’t be shocked to see WR drafted high.
For that reason they try to keep the OL in tack. The OL is getting the job done. Under Cables’ tutelage, this group is coming together. In a few more weeks they will continue to improve. As I mentioned, Cable is on a mission to show that these are “His Best Group of Guys”.
There would be no need for outside FA help with their continued development. Spending 8-9mil for a would be 31yr old Center could instead be used to re-up both Bane & Rubin @ that cost. The other available $$ could be used for Okung & possible Sweezy. The only help for the OL would come from the draft, at OT & Center. That would complete his project of building an OL via the draft.
Losing younger players in Bane & Rubin for an older center makes no sense.
You’ve made this point before WALL UP. I don’t know why you assume it will cost $8-9m to sign Alex Mack. Rodney Hudson is arguably the best center in the game, is 26 and the Raiders paid through the roof to entice him to Oakland. It’s a totally different situation to Mack, who wouldn’t be signing a 5-year contract.
Even if he did cost a fair penny — it’d be absolutely worth it. Give me Alex Mack over ten Mebane’s and Rubin’s quite frankly. Center is a vital, vital need. Mack is a fantastic player and it does him a disservice to keep referring to him as merely an ‘old center’. Credit to Patrick Lewis stepping in and holding the fort but the idea of going into the 2016 season with another green center learning the ropes is unthinkable.
Center is probably the one position on the OL you don’t want to throw a rookie in to start, if it’s not necessary. Even with Unger they had him at Guard first, me thinks.
If they Keep Okung, Sweezy, and sign Mack. While I think it’s a bit of a pipe dream, that line is set for the next 3 to 4 years without having to find and groom another center right away, and worth the expensive cedar. If not, and Lewis continues to steady the position, there may still no need to throw a rookie in, even if it’s Jack Allen drafted at some point, and I’m a Jack Allen guy.
They may still be able keep Mebane, and look for another DT than Rubin who’s better suited for the 3 tech. Bane shouldn’t cost $5 Mill any longer, being a 31 year old Nose who is slowing downt. Rubin isn’t a spring chicken either, and is probably better suited to be doing what Mebane is, so I can see holding onto him, and letting Bane walk, but in the end, I think Bane would be a tougher loss in the locker room. If DT is ho hum in this draft, throw some decent cedar at a younger vet who has more upside. Draft another one later for depth.
Draft LB, CB, or WR earl-ish. Miles Jack is sounding more and more interesting in this scenario.
Rob I respectfully disagree. Why weaken a DL that is in need of additional help just to add to an OL that is continually showing improvement for an added enhancement that they may not need?
If they fall flat on their faces in the next few weeks, then I can see the need for outside help. If they go deep into the playoff again, why spend there when other needs are warranted?
You & I both know a NDT of Bane’s caliber is not available in this yrs draft. For that reason I would keep status quo and add additional help in Heath as a McDaniel replacement from the draft and a possible low cost FA DT/DE. Then try as much as possible to keep their own FAs.
Sometimes we get so enamor with what other teams may have, not realizing that the best move is to make no move on them and just keep what you have. They made that decision earlier this year. With Cable’s success I doubt that will change. Time will tell right?
Wall UP I like Mebane but when he was out last year the defense did not miss a beat and might have even been better.
Actually, they over taxed the other replacements in order to compensate. When the lost Avril MicB had nothing left in the tank for an effective pass rush. Similar to this yr, being thin at DT.
Mack is a fine center no doubt. Last Pro Bowl appearances were 2012 & 2013 like Unger. He will be 31yrs old if he were to sign with Hawks. Isn’t Mack’s cap hit 8mil/yr for the next 4yrs with only 2015 fully guaranteed? I’m sure he’ll be be looking for the same size contract.
Mebane & Rubin are both 29yrs old now. Both still have something left in the tank, not saying Mack doesn’t. DT is a greater need in FAs than center. Lemuel can add that Vet presence if needed. And we shouldn’t disrespect Allen either. He’s not an ordinary rook coming up. I hope we get him. Competition is good. He’ll make the OL group better.
BTW, Houston’s cap hit is less than Mack’s the next 4yrs. His contract goes to 2019 whereas Mack’s ends 2018. Both have no guaranteed $$ after 2015. I’m sure he’s looking at 8-9mil/yr.
I like your thinking Wall UP on going after FA DT. Personally, I think keeping Okung and the Sweez will probably put us out of the range of Mack. Many ways this team can spend it’s cedar. I also think Carroll sounds happy with Lewis presently. I don’t think it’s necessarily coach speak, and he acknowledged this morning on the 710 radio the lack of interior pass rush. This is a defensive minded coach, I think it will be hard for him not to resist bringing in some more pieces to add to the rotation this offseason, free agency, the draft, or even trade.
They will try to re-up both Bane & Rubin. They could have let Bane go and go after Mathis & Wis, but they passed on that because they valued what he does for the DL. There are no replacements in the horizon. So, Bane will be resigned for a cap friendly price.
They couldn’t keep McDaniel and that is adding more time to MicB. Hence, the 4th qtr push has suffered. Adding Francis to the mix will lessen the load. They got pushed around with MicB & Hill at DT on the TD run.
I think they can hang onto Mebane and look to make a bigger splash in FA to replace Rubin, if they wanted. IMO, Rubin fits better at the Nose than the 3 tech. I think he’s more built to tie up blockers than disrupt. He’s a good player, but not playing at his natural position on the team. I think the new DL coach Dwayne Board (Old Seahawk coach in the Holmgren era) who was his old coach in Cleveland wanted him over McDaniel. I think they miss McDaniel’s play.
They should have kept both Rubin & McDaniel. That’s the problem. They need (4) legit DTs. They finally have that with the addition of Francis. They just need to start working him in the rotation on run dns.
Heath is 6-6 304lbs from MSU. He’s a perfect fit McDaniel’s role. Rubin can play a little bit of Big Red and spell Bane. MicB will be spared from run dns leaving him fresh come finish time. Francis could be an option if he works out this yr.
If they can’t keep Irving, they can pick Maryland’s Yannick as SLB keeping Wright at Will. I would also add Ugonna a 6-5 DE out of Campbell to the mix as a 6th Rd pick. You’d have Avril, MicB, Clark, Ugonna and Yannick roaming gaps as your Nascar package, with Hill & Marsh as fillers.
Striker could work at Will if Yannick is gone. But then Wright would have to play SLB. He is playing lights out at Will and should stay there. That’s why I prefer Yannick. Eventually, MicB & Avril will move on and Clark, Yannick and Ugonna could step right in to fill their roles.
Agree completely Rob. Unless Patrick Lewis continues to improve at an alarming rate and deserves the job then a veteran Center should be off season priority #1.
The cost of Mack is too great. Again, they made the exact decision with Wis earlier this year and passed. Mack would cost twice as much as what Wis got. The tackle position is the only price they can manage from the OL at the 8mil range.
If they stick with Patrick Lewis the rest of the season and make the playoffs, there is no reason to believe they will not count on him to handle the job next season. Lewis is only 24 and cheap when compared with every other OC that will be on the market. I see them drafting an OC but I would not count on him to start at that position at the beginning of next season. Let him work at OG a while. A good center, like a good QB, has to be a student of the game. I think the problem with Nowak is his inexperience in making the line calls. I don’t think they have given up on Nowak. This was his first year playing center. He will be better after an off season in the film room.
Russell beat out (2) Vet QBs and started as a rook. Pete is all about competition and is willing to give Allen a chance to compete for a starting spot as well. It will make both better for the good of all in the OL.
I respectfully disagree with some commenters on this thread. Mebane’s game has sadly diminished to almost nothing the last couple of years. Earlier in his career, Bane had a couple of seasons with nearly 60 tackles. Last year, Williams (3 sacks) and McDaniel combined for 80 tackles, while Mebane had only 20…granted, Mebane played in only 9 games. This year, Rubin is probably playing up to the standards set by Williams and McDaniel last year, but he’s not setting the world on fire either. Hill shows a lot of upside if he could just stay healthy. Mebane on the other hand has missed only one game this year, and at his current pace, will be lucky to make 20 tackles and one sack. Can you imagine what the Hawks D-Line would have been like this year with a DT like Aaron Donald? Donald is on pace to surpass 70 tackles and 11 sacks. Having that kind of production from the middle of the line would make Bennett and Avril even more productive.
I think that the Hawks lack of production on the inside of the D-Line is causing all of the other issues on the defense. Even the run D is affected negatively. I don’t place much of the blame for the Steelers’ 480 passing yards on our secondary. Roethlisberger had an unbelievable amount of time to make those laser throws. Avril and Bennett had a decent enough game, but Big Ben was able to step up in the pocket on most plays without any pressure. Our inside guys weren’t able to collapse the pocket.
Our offense is now ranked #8 in the NFL in both yards and points…that’s been a steady improvement the last few years. The O-Line is not as bad as people make it out to be. But it’s been our D that took us to the last 2 SB’s, and this year’s D will clearly NOT take us to SB50. Our D lost the game in the 4th quarter to all 4 playoff teams we’ve faced this year…not a good sign for making it deep into the playoffs this year.
We are only a couple of really good DT’s and one CB away from having the #1 D again. I say leave the O-Line alone. I say keep a few of the guys we’re losing this coming offseason, stay out of the FA market, don’t trade away any of our high picks, and draft some good kids…O-Line, inside D-Line, CB’s.
I think this discussion is useful. Help is needed at both D-line as well as O-line, and it is a matter of prioritizing. A tough call that the next several games should decide.
I think Bane is a shadow of his former self. Rubin is merely serviceable. The weakness of the interior D is not getting enough attention, while the o-line issues are more obvious.
I agree with both Willyeye and Steele. I think because of the OL issues, the issues at DT have been kind of underplayed. I get that Rob Staton and V12 don’t think there is a DT worth taking for this team in R1.
But think of it this way. Last year they wanted to add another pass rusher with Irving’s contract up, and they didn’t really have much behind Bennett and Avril. They vetted on a player many thought to be a middle round pick because he SPARQ’d in his workouts, and they knew they weren’t going to land a decent one beyond R2. His college stats didn’t show a lot of sack production, but he flashed here and there athletically. Someone really wants to convince me that if Billings, or Reed, or Robinson, or Washington or even Rankins SPARQ’s at their try outs, they like what they have on the OL, they feel decent at WR, that player wouldn’t be appealing at the end of round 1 or round 2, even if they bring back Mebane short term? They’ve already shown a track record with Clark, and Clark didn’t get buzz going until after his Michigan workout.
This isn’t strictly true. Frank Clark was a beast. We talked about him quite a lot on this blog. We discussed his upside and his likely stock minus the off-field issues. He was a top-25 prospect in terms of talent.
This wasn’t on a whim because he was athletic. Far from it. Performance and tape was just as important for Clark. If anything they did even more homework because of the character flags.
They’ve also put quite a high price on DE’s. They drafted Irvin as the “ideal LEO”, they made big FA acquisitions to land Bennett and Avril. They’ve not shown anything that indicates they’re willing to put that level of stock into the DT position. They’ve consistently, without fail, plugged guys in.
I’ve no doubt they’d be all over Aaron Donald. Maybe even a Sheldon Richardson. But these are guys that should’ve gone top-five and did go top-15. I know me & V12 aren’t saying this to be obtuse — but if people are hoping that Robinson, Billings, Reed etc are similar, they really aren’t. And none of them, seriously, look like a solution to the problem you want to solve.
Given the severity of Graham’s injury I wouldn’t be surprised if the team cut him loose in the offseason. He’s due to make $9m next season but has zero dead money if cut. Combine that with the $6.5m in savings you’ll get from Lynch and you’re left with a good chunk of change freeing up.
Bennett and Chancellor will likely both get bumps, but if the above scenario played out, I’d like to see them keep the bulk of that money on the offensive side of the ball.
Invest into the offensive line. Re-sign Sweezy (assuming he’s affordable). Probably let Okung walk (he’s likely going to want to go elsewhere) Sign a veteran to play C (Mack? yes please). Draft the best offensive linemen available. Britt stays at LG unless beat out by someone. Gilliam and Draft pick fight over the two tackle spots. Look for any free agent value that might help.
How the offense performs over the rest of the season will be really telling. If things continue to click despite Graham’s absence, hopefully it’ll mark the end of the team chasing after an offensive superstar.
I’d be very surprised if they cut Graham. Wouldn’t be a good look when he signs for the Cards, recovers fully and comes back to haunt them. They’ll give him every chance to return in 2016.
Not sure you can cut IR without settlement which might count against the cap. If Williams and Lynch money freed up we should be about 31-32 Mil. I dont think they spend more than 15mil on oline and 6 mil on Dline. Might need to look at TE in first three rounds this year.
I think the JSPC should monitor Graham’s recovery very carefully, and bias on the side of cutting him if he is as bad off as Victor Cruz. I’m not sure they will see it that way, they may be more likely to be optimistic about another shot at making their big investment pay off, but I don’t think he is an ideal fit. If the offense takes off from here without him, that will be another indicator.
They need quality depth on both sides, and freeing up as much $ as possible is important.
I was thinking the Patriots, paired up with Gronk.
Rob, Graham suffered the kind of injury that not many players were able to fully recover from. This is not an ACL injury…many players never regained their pre injury form after it.
I’m sure they will wait for the summer of 2016 to see how he recovers but they will not keep his 9M cap hit if he is not back to 100%.
Sad but….
It’s a serious injury of course. But they wouldn’t cut Russell Wilson if he had one of these. The only way he gets cut is if he’s finished. And they won’t know that until he’s been back for a while or suffered a major setback. He will be back in 2016.
Why should Jimmy be equated to Russell Wilson? RW is the franchise, the QB. Graham is an expensive add-on that hasn’t been a good fit, that they struggled to make use of, who now faces a potentially career-ending, or at least career-threatening, injury. Back in 2016? That is highly optimistic.
If Graham were Gronkowski, and the Hawks were the Patriots, then there would be more reason to wait for as long it takes, and keep a roster spot waiting. I don’t think Jimmy is indispensible.
Agreed that Jimmy is not indispensable but unless it’s clear that he won’t make it back and be effective after the injury, I don’t think the Hawks cut him either. He hasn’t been the superstar Red Zone monster that we expected but he has been getting better playing with Russell and lately, he’s also been grabbing some clutch passes for third down conversions. Given the steep price (1st round pick + Unger) paid for him and as Rob alluded to, the potential of him making a full recovery and then coming back to haunt us if any of our division foes pick him up, it makes more sense to keep him on the roster until we know for sure about his health status.
Carroll says Graham will be back in 2016. I see no reason not to believe that will be the case. They aren’t cutting him after one injury.
Carroll is one of the most optimistic human beings on earth. To him, it is always half full.
It’s not just an injury. It’s a nearly catastrophic one.
The odds that Graham comes back from the injury as good or better is slim. Nobody seems to be able to find an example of a spectacular return from this kind of injury. Sure, they can hope Jimmy proves to be the exception. Is that wise? Would it help to be ruthless and cold, if it frees up funds, allowing improvement and depth?
He has not proven to be the playmaker he was brought in to be. Not quite a Harvin situation, nowhere near as cancerous, but still not an ideal fit.
“The odds that Graham comes back from the injury as good or better is slim.”
You don’t know that.
Between 1994-2004 a total of 24 NFL players sustained a ruptured patellar tendon in that interval of time. Of those players, 19 of 24 returned to play (79%).
http://dynastyleaguefootball.com/2013/06/01/the-dynasty-doctor-6/
Another quote from the piece:
A study from Mayo Clinic described six athletes with ruptured patellar tendons over a ten year period of time.2 All patients returned to their previous level of sports activity an average of 18 months after the injury, although cutting and pivoting started at 6 months. All patients did not have instability or limits in activity levels after surgery, and all had full range of motion and strength when compared to the uninjured knee. Five out of six patients reported excellent functional and clinical outcomes. The authors in this study concluded that, after surgery and rehabilitation, athletes with ruptured patellar tendons can have excellent, long-lasting functional outcomes.
They aren’t cutting Jimmy Graham in the off-season. Let’s move on.
PC said he expects JG to be ready for Week 1 this morning. Don’t know if that is just sunny optimism or if he has some medical basis for the statement.
I don’t think they cut Jimmy Graham after a season, even remotely. I think they’ve been pretty happy with him, and it seemed like they adjusted how to use him better with move blocking. I think the media has blown up the “Get Jimmy the Ball” stuff way overboard. He was a pace to crush tight end production stats for any Seahawk team this year.
Ditto, no way.
I wonder if there’s any chance they’ll give Zach Miller a look. Or if he’d even be interested, after getting cut because they didn’t want pay him as agreed.
He’s retired.
Unless, C-Dog, Jimmy has trouble recovering. Which is possible. Few if any have come back from that kind of injury. In which case, cut him, move on. Find a traditional TE who blocks and catches, who is a better fit.
Just because Victor Cruz has struggled with his return doesn’t mean Jimmy Graham will. Robbie Tobeck comes to mind. People thought the same thing about AP tearing his ACL, and even Todd Gurley. Let’s face it. Those are both the toughrst injuries to bounce back from.
Actually V12 patellar tendon tears are very difficult to recover from. But I totally agree Cruz isn’t any indicator of how Graham will be.
Everyone is physiologically unique. Not to mention Cruz is an entirely different kind of player. Also, surgical techniques improve every year.
Oh, their extremely hard to come back from, I get that 100%.
But, to cut the dude after you gave up what you did, tried to fit him in, he was just starting to look comfortable and gel with the offense, then he gets hurt, will more than likely work his ass off to get back, and then turn around and cut him? That’s tough for me to see them doing that.
I agree.
Won’t happen. If at the end of 2016, he hasn’t stayed healthy or it’s clearly diminished his skill set, then it’s probably a concern to consider. Gotta give the guy a chance to bounce back.
is sweezy worth resigning? seems his best attribute is being available. hes not terrible, but I don’t know if hes gonna get much better. is there some great guards coming out we couild get late first or second?
If the price is right. I wouldn’t chase him though.
I would let him walk. He’s routinely whipped off the snap and I don’t see the point in giving him a raise to be mediocre.
I’m not necessarily a fan of Sweezy, but it depends on the price. He’s making $1.5mm this season but his average per year is only $540k. That’s near the bottom for the League. Heck Sokoli averages more.
Anything under $1mm average/year would still be in the bottom half for the League and is probably worth it.
He is good for a personal penalty every few games. I love the attitude however, which the OL lacks overall.
Graham was blocking pretty well too. Maybe he finally got it. Let Okung, Sweezy and Williamd go and maybe get Boone.
Resign Shead as 2nd CB. Lane in the slot.
Get a DT.
Rob, any DT Hawks can trade for (obviously not Donald).
I can’t think of any.
Kyle Williams?
Bills have the 3rd least cap space for next year.
Where can we buy Clinton McDonald’s replacement? Are there any comparable free agents?
To me cutting Hill seems like a good option for the defensive tackle group. Hes constantly injured and doesnt produce. To me fhe AJ Frsncis guy intrigues me, and Chris Jones, Joel Heath really aopeal to me in the draft. I have liked what I have seen out of Dobbs, but maybe its time to move on. An ideal dt group to me consists of:
Brandon Mebane (resigned)
Ahtyba Rubin (resigned)
Chris Jones (draft)
AJ Francis (resigned)
Joel Heath (draft)
I think this group would be better than what we have know, with Francis in the Mcdaniel Role, Heath and in Bryant role and Jones in the Mcdonald role.
Jordan Hill’s cap hit in 2016 is $831,035. Why on earth would you cut him?
It’s not for monetary reasons, he takes up abrogated spot while being constantly injured without producing consistantly while healthy. More of a camp cut in my opinion.
Hill has had his moments and at his Cap # why take a chance on unknowns?
No need to cut Hill. He hasn’t been the sack master he was last year, but he’s done a good job playing the run. Could even possibly be viewed Mebane’s replacement if they decide to move on. But his track record for injuries is a legit concern.
Hill’s played in 9/11 games this year and played in 13 last year. That’s not a reason to cut him. It’d be an outrageous move.
If they are going to look for another Clinton McDonald in free agency, the would probably have to pony up. Tampa had to pony up on McDonald. There could be a really good player available in Mike Daniels, if Green Bay isn’t able to work out a deal, or use the franchise tag. I think I read somewhere recently there might be a hangup in negotiations. I think he’d be a pretty decent under tackle in their style of 4-3, short, quick, strong, active, and only 26 years old. Datone Jones has been playing well for them, and they have Josh Boyd.
To a much lesser extent, they might be inclined to take a flier on Mike Martin, who is built much like McDonald, and SPARQ-y, but never did that much for the Titans because of the players in front of him. Former Hawk, Jaye Howard would be a decent grab too, but if the Chiefs don’t work out a deal, his former college coach was Dan Quinn, and might to looking to reunite with him. Howard kind of reminds me of a Rocky Bennard type, and that’s not a bad thing.
If they go the route of FA, I would rather them pony up on a younger player who’s proven, kind of like they did with Cliff Avril a couple years ago. It wouldn’t be cheap. If they go the cheap route in take a flier on Martin, or the likes, I would like to see them additionally add in the draft, as early as the 3rd round potentially, if there’s a SPARQy one still sitting around.
The Bucs actually got a team friendly deal with McDonald. Hindsight 20/20 I think letting him go was one of our bigger mistakes, but I can see how they thought Hill would serve as his replacement.
Good corner prospects lasting into the late R1’s would be an opportunity for this roster but I think what we really need is a DT, who can push the pocket, get to the QB and stuff the run. Who? I don’t know. But Simon, Tye Smith, Burley, and Lane are all good players injured or coming off injuries and Williams would’ve been on the bench for a while were they available.
There are leadership issues in the secondary. Not sure a dynamic rookie would solve them and I don’t think Williams has been the only problem. I suspect he’d have done better If he came here a year earlier, as is he’s the new guy plugged in during the offseason with the defense’s leader holding out, the DC gone and the secondary coach in his place, burdened with more responsibility. And Pete Carroll and everyone else still a little shocked at how last year ended. But there’s been a performance drop at every position in the secondary, this year.
The turnovers on Sunday were huge though and the defense played a big part in our point total, as many yards as they gave up. Sherman was big time. What a game!
I’m not looking to next year yet but salaries being even and given the choice, I’d rather keep Irvin than Okung.
If Jalen Ramsey declares, he’ll be in that first group of CBs off the board.
I also like Will Jackson (HOU) and Will Redmond.
I can see this being a year where they could target CB and DT early. Rob Staton and Vol 12 are pretty steadfast that this isn’t the draft to take a DT high that provides what this team needs, which is a disrupting ball of steak knives. I’m bleakly hanging onto hope, but what do I know? If the Hawks have the same unimpressed feelings that Rob and Vol 12 share about this DTs, I think CB can definitely be the early target.
The ones that have came through this system and had success had time to learn the techniques they require behind proven vets, even Sherman. The team might not have the patience this year. Maybe there’s a chance Tye Smith is in that process and will look good next year, although he’s been consistently inactive. Not the greatest sign, thus far. Maybe it’s injury. If they see a player who has the measurables, and the savvy coming out of college this year, yeah, I can totally see them taking one early. It would be weird, but makes a lot of sense.
I’m not sure what they sought in M. Siesay, but he never got much of a shot before he went IR. So he’s another one to add to the long list of injured corners who may get more opportunity to do something.
Agreed. If Siesay or Simon can stay healthy, they may show that our 2nd CB is already on the roster. But in the meanwhile, I wouldn’t be opposed to the Hawks taking a CB early if one dropped to them.
I was thinking to myself earlier, if Seattle’s O-line continues to improve, and I kinda think it will, and the re-sign Okung, the can go BPA with their first overall selection and take a SPARQY, but raw O-line in the 2nd or even 3rd. It just seems like their gonna target an athletic O-lineman.
Ecspecially if they get into the playoffs, all the top tier O-lineman are gone, or they can’t trade up to secure one.
BTW Rob, could not agree more abput receiver. They know what they like/want, and that’s the later round receivers that play with a chip on their shoulder, run block, unselfish, gritty, but at the same time possessing swag and attitude.
I really like Cal WR Bryce Treggs. Watch an interview of his. Dude is very ‘Seahawky’ just like his daddy.
They should learn from this season that the SPARQ experiment route is fine for long term development, but not good if you are in a win-soon/small championship window mode. It depends on how they see where the team is. If the latter is the case, they should draft immediate contributors who know how to play their positions. BPA is a luxury only if your team is already loaded, rather than a team with clear needs.
This team doesn’t need to rebuild, it needs to reload. When PC/JS move on, then we can discuss guys that aen’t good athletes. Until then’ they’ll continue to do what’s worked for them.
The new and improved Seahawks needs list for 2016 via draft (due to recent injuries)
#1) Big WR/ move TE
#2) OT
#3) DT/DE (x2)
#4) RB
#5) OLB/ILB
#6) CB
#7) Quick WR
#8) Back-up SS/FS
#9) Inside OL depth (C or G)
#10) Back-up QB
If we were building a team on Madden (which I have many many times) I would agree with this list. However in the real NFL, I do not agree.
A big WR/TE sounds nice and we have had flashes of success with Big Mike Williams and Chris Matthews. But what Seattle needs is WRs who can create separation. Too often Russ drops back, only to find that none of his reads are open. Yes, you could argue that a big body could be thrown to in hopes they could box out the defender and make the catch, but Russ is averse to taking unneccessary risks.
To me our needs are as follows:
1) LT – if Okung walks
2) C – A permanent solution. Mack looks nice on paper and for the win now mentality, but $ is everything.
3) CB – Cary Williams should be let go. With our scheme, it is best to develop a player
4) DT – Mebane and Rubin are aging. Need to add depth here
5) RB – Rawls looks to be the future, but you need more than one RB in this league.
The draft strategy early on should be BPA. Talent will fall, we just need to take it when it is there. Do not waste an early pick on a RB and only go WR if it is a no brainer (i.e. Odell Beckham, Amari Cooper, etc.) More than likely though, offensive line will be the focus early on. But I am not averse to taking a talented CB/LB/DE.
In terms of 3), it will be pretty interesting to watch how Shead continues to emerge. He definitely has the build they like outside, and I thought he held up well against Bryant in man coverage. Lane might come on, as well. I see a likely scenario where they re-sign both, cut Williams, and stay with the method of drafting CB in the mid rounds.
I would put WR at the top only if they let Kearse walk. OT, if they let Okung walk. Those are two areas they typically draft relatively high anyways.
DT in free agency and the draft seems likely.
C if only Mack comes in at reasonable cost, but I would be dance a gig if they landed Jack Allen in the 3rd or 4th.
LB could easily be their first pick, if they keep the line together, keep Kearse, and Mebane, and upgrade the other DT spot in free agency.
I think they may wait draft RB in the later rounds.
Even if they keep Kearse, they still might draft WR in the 3rd, or higher if they really like one. Paul Richardson looks like a major health risk, and Doug is going to be a FA in 2016.
I agree with a lot of this, C-Dog and Ty. I have a strong feeling that Kearse will go nowhere. Russ just loves him. As long as Russ is the QB, I see them stretching as much as possible to keep both Kearse and Baldwin, his security blankets. Barring something extraordinary like huge underperformance or too high a price tag.
So this leaves Seattle with some other options for drafting at WR and/or TE.
If Seattle grabs a WR early, I would love Seattle to get would be Will Fuller*, WR, Notre Dame, but he is apparently returning for 1 more year with the Irish. Disappointing. He reminds me of Golden Tate 2.0. Put him on the 2017 draft radar.
I’ll throw one guy out there for big WR type that I do not know much about, but his name popped up on a few scouting sites to keep and eye on.. Corey Davis, WR, Western Michigan. Nice size/speed with very good athleticism. Coming from a smaller school, might have a bit of a chip on the shoulder. He definitely ticks some of the classic Seahawks love in big WR boxes on the scorecard. Right now it is unknown if he will indeed declare, but he is a top 2 round prospect.
I know, I know, this is crazy, but I could see Seattle go TE in the first round.. and that was before the Graham injury. I would love for them to draft Hunter Henry, TE, Arkansas due to his overall completeness as a TE. One of the few that can block and contribute in the passing attack, if called upon. A top rated TE currently. I can easily see him available at bottom of the 1st round. It might be considered as an overdraft, but he would be a nice piece to compliment Graham and Willson as the 3rd TE. With the long-term health of Graham in question, it would also be a sensible pick.
If Jake Butt, TE, Michigan comes out this year in the draft, then he would be a priority target in the mid rounds, should Seattle choose not to go TE in first few rounds. He plays in a pro style offense and is a very competent blocker and decent receiving threat. I’ve not seen alot of him, but when I’ve watch part of a few Michigan games this season…. he always stood out to me.
The 1st TE will come off the board in the Maxx Williams range IMO.
Fuller has struggled this season with drops and inconsistency. Huge speed and upside, but maybe a bit mentally soft.
Gilliam’s is a great story. I called it: Start Gilliam at RT and move Britt to LG. Gilliam’s upside is huge. He just needs to get a little stronger and heavier this off-season while maintaining his quickness and honing technique…maybe hire an MMA coach to improve his punching and hand fighting.
Hill is a massive disappointment. QB’s are consistently able to step up in the pocket to avoid our ferocious pass rush from the DE’s. Mebane doesn’t seem as good at gobbling up double teams and keeping Wagner clean either. If the right player is available, we might draft a dominating DT early!?
Look at Carolina and their WR position at the start of the year, if any team would be desperate for either a trade for or sign a known FA WR it had to have been them but they’ve been able to get production from their existing guys.
I think our FO (TBH, us fans as well) were so desperate to pair a big time name to Russ and the passing offense that we forced a square peg player in our round hole offense. When in fact we really just need complementary players with emphasis on depth, that is really our team makeup. As much as I wanted the “Jimmy Graham Experiment” to work out (so called “jump ball guy”) that he only was able to produce 3 redzone catches in his time all year.
I don’t think the experiment is over, or that it failed.
Until yesterday, Graham led the team in receptions, total receiving yards, average yards per catch, and receiving yards per game. He still leads the team in targets, YAC, and catches for 1st down.
We all wanted/expected him to be a RZ/TD machine. But he’s more of a complete receiver who was just beginning to build chemistry with RW and the rest of the team.
Had Graham stayed healthy I would have bet they would trade him before the draft. Now that he is hurt the question is whether they cut him in training camp. It all comes down to the health of that knee in 7 months. Big guys usually take a little longer to heal the legs because of their size. He wasn’t the fastest guy before the injury. His game is all about pushing off that leg and extending that 6-7 frame to high point the ball. If he cannot do that, they will certainly move on. The $9M salary makes it an easy business decision. They will certainly draft a TE and probably bring in another FA at the position.
I have liked Gilliam’s athleticism since last year. I like him at RT – and everyone thinks you can flip guys to LT, but I’d rather see Gilliam stay where he is and see whether we can find a LT. Okung, besides being injured a lot, has been penalized and getting beat. Is he really going to take something like $4m a year instead of 7? If so, maybe you can keep him, but someone will likely over pay him.
Cable cannot be the decider for the offensive line – Britt has been a failure – Carp was an average guard – but may have been better after leaving – Bailey – bust. And maybe they cut guys who could have worked out – not sure about that, but I don’t trust Cable anymore.
They’ll give Graham another year – and I’m guessing Jimmy maybe more driven than Cruz to get back to the game.
I keep thinking about Bitonio – I would take him over PRich today.
I think that its interesting that Ohio State has run the Seattle Defense for the past two seasons and think Apple with his size really fits what they are doing on the backend of that defense.
I think overall there are some solid options with everyone you have mentioned at CB.
How good would Spencer Ware look paired with Rawls?
I know you can’t build rosters with hindsight, but to think we used our 2nd Rnd pick on C. Michael in the same draft that we took Ware, and eventually cut him loose to roll with Turbin & CMike.
Go back to the PIT game tape and look at all those 3rd and long and other obvious pass plays once more. RW has a very clean pocket to work from. He got the ball out in 2.38 sec. rather than he hesitant season av. of 3.08. NE, with similar OL issues are doing just fine with Brady passing 50% of his balls in 2 sec or less.
The OL is not the greatest issue we face as long as we adapt our play to it. With RW planting and firing with better anticipation and timing like he did against PIT we should be fine with what we have. I would wait and see how that continues to evolve in the remaining games but OL may not be our main concern. Banging the table for a Center is Nowak history, Lewis looks to be doing just fine. If we can indeed keep Okung and Sweezy (big “if”), we will not draft OL on day one or even day two.
DT is a big issue but it seems that this draft class is not the right one to solve it unless they see someone we dont.
CB is a must. We spent too many draft pics already on bringing outside guys to add depth. We will need one high pick and one low rounder to beef up that position.
It took the Seahawks 11 games to finally fire a 50% contested high pass to Graham. He came down with it like a champ. On the second try the ball was a few yards short and in his attempt to recover it he got injured. Every year we are tempted to look for that “BIG TARGET” for RW. It’s time to let that dream go. The Seahawks game plan does not include winning the contested ball. They are more comfortable with the Locketts and the Baldwins speed and quickness getting open.
“If we can indeed keep Okung and Sweezy (big “if”), we will not draft OL on day one or even day two.”
I beg to differ. This group still needs improvement. The only way they don’t go OL IMO is if they add a veteran center and truly believe in Britt. I think two decent games isn’t enough to ignore a lot of bad play too. They have to be consistent. The thought of not drafting a single OL in rounds 1-3 would be a surprise to me as of the start of December (but it’s still early).
That’s true the draft will add competition. Healthy competition fosters growth for a young core of players.
I still think OL has to be our focus with the #1 pick. Unless the top 5 OTs are all off the board then I believe it is the glaring weakness on this team that needs to be addressed.
It seems like every year the Ol stuggles 3/4 of the season and then finally gets to the point they are functional but far from dominant by the end of the season and everyone forgets how bad they were.
I would just love to see Wilson and this offense operate for one full season with at least an NFL average OL. This can be accomplished this off season if they make it a focus.
1)Cut or hopefully retire Beast (save $6.5 cap space) Use this cap space to sign Alex Mack. He is going to opt out and you have to think after years in Cle he would want to play for a contender. I would think 3 years at $25 mil would get it done.
2)Resign Okung – He is representing himself and has been a solid team guy. I think they resign him in the range of 5 yrs / $45-$50 mil.
3)Resign Sweezy- He gives the line some nastiness. i know he is not great but his attitude means a lot on this OL. He is a Cable favorite and I don’t think there will be much market for him. I am thinking 3 yrs /$8mil
4)Draft Shon Coleman (RT) Round #1
5) Glowinski, Britt, Sokoli battle for LG spot.
2016 OL OKung (LT) Britt (LG), Mack (C), Sweezy (RG) Coleman (RT)
2016 Backup OL Gilliam (Swing tackle), Lewis (C), Glowinski (G) Sokoli (G)
By making these moves we would lockk up this group for the next 3 years. if this team is going to become more balanced and rely on the offense more then the cap space has to be more balanced. This investment in the OL would be more than worth it my opinion.
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Even with Gilliam “possibly now progressing” into a respectable RT, and a scenario they keep both Okung and Sweezy, somehow through fairy dust acquire Mack on a reasonable deal, I can see them drafting Coleman early. He looks too much like a Cable guy. While most would consider him the immediate RT, and that is still probably most likely, let me throw out this tidbit in suggesting the idea of putting him next to Okung at LG, and letting Britt battle with Gilliam. Coleman’s ability to zone block is sick for a LT, imagine that mass and movement skills inside.
So let’s talk about DBs and WRs in the upcoming draft, starting with some DBs:
Cameron Sutton. Fast, fluid, good size, good hands, stays close to receivers. Terrific P/K returner. Would love to see Seattle draft him in the 3rd round. He won’t last beyond that.
Cyrus Jones (Alabama). A converted WR who switched to full-time CB in 2014. He’s got great hands and has performed well since going form receiver to DB, with 6 INTs. He could last until round 5 or so.
Justin Simmons (Boston College). A personal favorite, and a player who’s flown under the radar, though that could change. He’s tall (6’2″), rangy, very fast, and has played both S and CB. He has 5 INTs this year. Could be drafted anywhere between rounds 4 and 6.
Michael Caputo (Wisconsin). A hard-hitting safety who’s good against the run and the pass. I really like this guy to be a Kam-in-training.
Seattle won’t take a WR early in the draft, but there are plenty of amazing talents who’ll be around later, including these guys:
Jordan Williams (Ball State). A big, strong, fast receiver on a pretty crappy team. Williams is listed at 6’3″ 228. He has a big catch radius, good hands, and seems like a great fit in Seattle’s offense.
Corey Davis (Western Michigan). I’m a huge fan of this guy. He’s another big receiver (6’3″, 210) with speed, very good hands, and terrific production. Davis has looked like a human cheat code against opposing DBs.
Tajae Sharpe (Massachusetts). The best player on a lousy team, Sharpe has 111 receptions for 1319 yards as a senior, including *six* games of 138 or more yards. He’s tall (6’3″), a bit thin and not super-fast, but he creates great separation and has a wide catch radius with very good hands.
Taywan Taylor (Western Kentucky). An explosive play machine, Taylor has racked up over 100 yards receiving in six different games, and has receptions of 78, 73, 69, 59, 56, and 52 yards.
Cam Suton- I like everything about this guy. He suffers from blackouts. Will that affect his stock?
Cyrus Jones- Intriguing, but being 5’9, is he going to have the required length for Seattle?
Corey Davis- won’t get outta round 4. Size, speed YAC, upside, toughness, great backstory
Sutton is a high first rounder for me.
I really like Sutton at DB and would certainly take him in the 2nd round. I still hop we target an OT with our first pick with Coleman being the ideal choice as I have said repeatedly since Rob fist brought him up on here.
Also love Corey Davis at WR . It is hard to tell because he plays in a weak conference but he looks like he can just flat out play. Athletic with good speed and runs great routes. Always seems to be open despite being the focal point of opposing defenses. I would love to see us target him with our 3rd round comp pick. I don’t think he would make it to us in the 4th round and I hope we never draft a 4th round WR again as Durham, Harper and Norwood were all busts.
Two other WR I really like are DeRunnya Wilsonb out if Miss St. He has great size and good ball skills. Plus he plays in a low volume passing attack with a scrambling QB so he should adapt quickly to our system. Only downside is I don’t see a lot of explosiveness or great separation. I still think we could use at least one big WR.
Finally I am not sure if he will declare because of the injury he had running into the goal post this year but if he does and the medicals on his neck check then I love MIke Willams out of Clemson. He has a great size speed combo and Clemson really knows how to develop WRs. If he declares I would love him in the 3rd round. Had he not got injured I think he could have been a 1st or early 2nd round pick.
It’s funny because of all the young WRs in the league, Lockett himself has one of the best comps to Antonio Brown’s early-career profile. One can hope!
I would venture that the key variable their Big Balls Pete trades have maddeningly ignored is the salary; there’s a big difference between spending your first-round pick on an elite pass-catcher and spending it on an elite pass-catcher who’s also on a cost-controlled rookie contract. Say they stood pat the Percy Harvin year, but instead of Nuk Hopkins, they fell in love with Cordarrelle Patterson. We’d all lament that whiff but they would still be oceans better off than they became in this reality because Patterson makes $1M per year. That multiplies his value if you hit, and mitigates the downside if you miss (i.e., you don’t have your next up-and-coming starter but hey, Golden Tate is still a Seahawk). By spending that pick in 2013 and its analogue this year on a veteran with a big-money contract, they paid peak prices for the assets and left themselves vulnerable to any scenario other than the best case.
Not particularly advocating for WR early this year or anything, but the takeaway here might be to build the position group through the draft rather than specifically late in the draft. If they have a Dez or a Hopkins or an Alshon fall into their strike zone in an early round position, I’d hate to see them blow that off because they’re committed to finding the next Kris Durham.
With Jimmy Graham out, let’s see what DT AJ Francis can do. Moved off the PS to the active roster.
P-Rih should play this week too. Man, if he can stay healthy…
2016 roster:
QB Wilson
RB Lynch/Rawls
WR Baldwin/Lockett/Richardson/Smith
TE Graham/Wilson
OL Britt/Glowinski/Gilliam/Sokoli/Nowak
DL Bennett/Avril/Hill/Clark/Marsh
LB Wagner/Wright/Pierre-Lewis
DB Sherman/Thomas/Chancellor/Williams/Smith/Simon
Resign:
Shead/Irvin/Tukuafu
Sign:
1 DT (Fairley/Walker) expiring contract (Poe/Floyd)
1 OL (Boone)
Draft:
OT (1st)
WR (2nd)
DT (3rd)
G/C (3rd)
RB (4th)
1 S
1 LB
1 TE
1 CB
1 DT