New podcast: 90 minutes of Seahawks talk

March 14th, 2020 | Written by Rob Staton

If you’re stuck for something to do this weekend, here’s a nice long Seahawks podcast…

171 Responses to “New podcast: 90 minutes of Seahawks talk”

  1. Steve Nelsen says:

    Yes! This is exactly what I need while I self-quarantine with a cold. Thank you!

  2. MoBo says:

    The sunday is safed. Thank you Rob!

  3. Pickering says:

    Thanks Rob for your ongoing role in keeping bits of our circuses going.

  4. JJ says:

    Hub Arkash is reporting draft is going to be postponed until some time in May.

  5. CHawk Talker Eric says:

    Utah Gross Mah Toast! 😂

  6. Kingdome1976 says:

    Good stuff. Enjoyed it.

  7. Pugs1 says:

    There is a report Aldon Smith is applying for reinstatement. Should the Seahawks kick the tires? It’s been awhile but he was a monster his first four years and he’s only 30. Pete loves his reclamation projects. Might be worth a incentive laden contract to see if he’s got anything left. IMO what would it hurt.

    • Kingdome1976 says:

      Can’t see it. Didn’t he try to come back with the Raiders a few years ago?

      • Pugs1 says:

        He played his last year in the league with the Raiders. He averaged a sack a game his first three years in the league. It’s a long shot for him to make it back but everyone loves a redemption story.

  8. Michael P Matherne says:

    Just realized that Conner McGovern is a free agent. He of the unusually high weighted TEF score (if I recall correctly) from a few years back. Does anyone know what his market might be like? Had he played well in Denver? If Britt is a cap casualty could McGovern be a fit?

  9. Bankhawk says:

    I’về often heard it said “any port in a storm”. Seems the seas are rising, but Rob-you’về got the best of all possible ports goin here at SDB! Thank you for the podcast, and to the community at large for stayin’ cool!

  10. Happy Hawk says:

    NFL CBA was ratified by the players last night. It was passed by 60 votes. The new agreement goes into effect immediately. Don’t hold me to this but I think it impacts free agency and cap space etc.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Hopefully they just get on with it tomorrow, while doing everything possible to avoid spreading the virus.

      Thought it was funny yesterday when Sean Payton did an interview saying he thought free agency would be delayed. Of course, he did this interview at a horse racing day surrounded by loads of people.

      (But we can’t have GM’s talking on the phone or players making money)

  11. Zane says:

    I absolutely despise adding a 17th game and expanding the playoffs.

    Ugh…

    • Coleslaw says:

      I actually like the playoff expansion. There’s always that team that turns it on late and could make a serious run but are out of it because of early injuries. Almost happened to the Chiefs last year, who ended up winning the Superbowl.

      I think this will actually increase the level of competition in the playoffs most years. And if the #2 seed cant beat a bad #7 team that doesnt deserve to be there, then do they deserve to be there? Any given sunday.

      I just wish somehow we couldve kept 2 byes.

      • cha says:

        Hate the expanded playoffs.

        The long shot gets hot and makes a run scenario has an extremely low probability.

        9 times out of 10 those who squeak in are ground hamburger that get bounced before halftime of their first game. The nfl is starting to mirror the NBA and NHL where half the teams make the playoffs.

      • Henry Taylor says:

        I mean… last year it would have meant a Duck Hodges led playoff team and the Rams making it so I dont see it adding much competition to the playoffs in most years, especially on the Afc side.

        It also makes the 1 seed, which can often be decided by something as simple as having a slightly easier schedule, becomes infinantly more valuable. So I dont like the changes much at all.

        Personally, I dont mind the 17th game tho. More football, presumably an extra bye as well which teams could use anyway. And considering teams can play up to 4 extra games in a year, does one more for all teams really spell doom for player safety the way it’s being talked about.

        Another point is the decrease in padded practice will have a negative impact on the play early on in the season, if it helps player safety (I have no idea how much it will) I’m all for it but something to remember next season when no one can tackle until week 4.

        • Rob Staton says:

          There’s no extra bye in this deal.

          • Henry Taylor says:

            I thought that plan was when they bring the 17th game in (which isnt starting until 2021 at the earliest) they would add the extra bye?

            I dont see why they wouldn’t, gives them two extra weeks of football instead of 1.

          • icb12 says:

            Struggling to figure out how quandre Diggs is so certain when the NFL is saying they don’t know how it will work yet, because those discussions haven’t happened…

    • Volume12 says:

      Trash.

      More CTE though!

    • Volume12 says:

      Will be completely, thoroughly, 100 % shocked if the draft isn’t pushed back until mid or late May.

      • The extra playoff team is the one I hate the most. You always target one of those top 2 seeds now it’s just one. I wonder if the #1 seed will just walk into the SB? If your right and there is no extra bye week that is terrible. I didn’t mind the 1that game as much but if there isnt two bye weeks it’s all bad.

  12. Happy Hawk says:

    Just announced: The cap per team is now $198.2 million for 2020 v $188.2 million in 2019. That is a plus $10 million now on each teams cap. In 2021 it will go up more. The other change is that teams have more flexibility to restructure existing contracts and spread the money out further to lessen the cap hit than before.

    • king. says:

      Remember that the playing field is level in that all teams can use that freedom .

      The money on contracts comes due at some point. This gives financially irresponsible teams even more leverage to outbid financially responsible teams by breaking out their cap credit card.

      Be careful what you wish for. This makes contact structures easier to manipulate, but with that freedom it becomes harder to make wise decisions and a dumb team’s dumb decisions don’t happen in a vacuum.

  13. Volume12 says:

    I know this is a football blog and I won’t personally bring it up again, but where did the hoarding of tp come from? How does that protect against a microscopic virus? If you need that much I think you have other problems to be concerned with.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think it’s people anticipating they’re going to be asked to quarantine for weeks. Which is why dry pasta is also unavailable everywhere.

      • Volume12 says:

        I get the food part and if you have more than 2 people in your home, but how much tp do some of these people think they’ll need? If they beleive they need that much maybe they should ration their trips to the bathroom.

      • Volume12 says:

        Good thing I get mine at Costco, but for those that don’t I guess it’s time to throw it back and start wearing Huggies. 🤷‍♂️

    • Kelly says:

      Everyone has a running shower I hope. If it gets that bad take some soap and wash your ass anyways.

      • Volume12 says:

        Exactly. Thank you.

        God damn. Go to a hardware store, sprnd $10-$20 and hook up a small hose, screw on a nozzle and attach it to the water line behind your toilet.

      • Coleslaw says:

        Seriously lol im not even worried about TP in a quarantine… Just shower.. Not that big of a deal lol

    • DC says:

      I think it’s for those of us anticipating the need to TP someone’s house during these trying times. That’s why I have 400 cubic yards of butt wipe stored in the barn.

  14. Coleslaw says:

    Oh boy, I wont be able to make my bets with full knowledge, but if they do push back the draft to the weekend of May 8th like Tony Pauline is reporting, I WILL BE THERE!! Could be an unexpected dream come true. Thank you Coronavirus!

  15. Gaeleck says:

    Now that a 17 game regular season is officially on the books, I hope that the NFL gets it right. 2 byes per team, one of which should precede their Thursday night game appearance. All Thursday night contests should be neutral sight affairs. Eliminate divisions and have all teams play everyone in their own conference plus 2 non conference tilts.

    • Hawks4life says:

      Would be interesting to see neutral site games but I don’t see the NFL doing that

      • Gaeleck says:

        I am trying to wrap my head around how to deal with the 17th game and see the neutral site as the easiest way to level the playing field. Half the teams getting an extra home game really muddles an egalitarian schedule. The NFL has already set up a possible 10 international games per season. That would leave just 6 contests to spread around to non NFL American cities. It could make the Thursday night game more of an event, especially if they tie a 2nd bye into it for the players sake. I can’t fathom the league not preferring a 19 week regular season in their next media negotiations. I hope that the NFL is forward thinking on this matter.

        • cha says:

          It’s being reported there is still only 1 bye week.

          But neutral site games could really be a boost to the NFL in US markets that don’t have teams.

          Alabama
          Iowa
          Nebraska
          Oregon
          St Louis (ouch)

          Vancouver could be an interesting option

          Maybe Arizona could host 2 non-Cardinals teams on the Cards bye week since it’s such a great venue/destination

    • mishima says:

      ‘Load management’ added to NFL lexicon. Well done.

      /smh (safely, not in your direction).

      • Volume12 says:

        Load management should be added to all the tp hoarder’s lexicon IMO.

        • mishima says:

          With a little practice, we can slow our ‘movements’ to 2X / week.

          Will save on toilet paper, but might cause a run on cheese.

  16. Volume12 says:

    Ya’ll gotta watch this. Its a tear jerker though.

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1238497437272203265

  17. Katal says:

    My immediate CBA take is that with the extra game – games if you’re a two-seed in the playoffs – it is more important than ever to have a young roster and to protect the quarterback.

  18. All I see is 12s says:

    CC to the Ravens for a 5th!!!????? So. Mad. Right. Now.

    • AndrewP says:

      For a 5th…

      Sadz. All the sadz.

      • Gohawks5151 says:

        Salty. All the salty

      • dcd2 says:

        Crazy to fathom that a 5th rounder was the highest bid. Seems like an amazing deal for Baltimore. If they don’t extend him, they’ll probably get at least a 4th round comp pick next year.

        Ugh

    • Volume12 says:

      That’s a heist and great fit for Bmore.

    • Cameron says:

      What the heck JS?!?! How were we not in on that?! After all the admiration of Campbell over the years, we couldn’t beat a fifth for him?!

      Ugh.

      • Rob Staton says:

        Can only imagine they’re saving their money for something else.

        But that would’ve been a hell of a problem solver right there for very little compensation.

        • Cameron says:

          New deal reportedly close between Campbell and Baltimore. May have been the deal breaker for JS, either the length or amount that Campbell was seeking on a new contract.

      • mishima says:

        Are we sure they weren’t ‘in on that?’ The Ravens are a hot team / destination, right now.

        • Cameron says:

          Not actually saying I think we weren’t in on discussions, just a reaction to not offering more than the Ravens’ 5th.

          But to your point, it’s possible it came down to Campbell’s preference of destination, and that Baltimore perhaps appealed more for whatever reason.

          • mishima says:

            I was wrong to assume that they included CC in the decision. Also assumed it was more a salary dump. Weird move all around.

            Apologies.

            • Cameron says:

              Not at all. Trades often come down to the preference or approval of the player, particularly if a new deal will be sought with the new team. Wouldn’t be at all surprised if that was the case here.

              The other factor is it sounds like CC and Balt are close on a new deal, and the Ravens were willing to offer a richer deal to him.

      • Von says:

        And already in talks to restructure his contract to lower his cap hit. Ugh!

    • Aaron says:

      😡😡😡🤬🤬🤬

    • Steve Nelsen says:

      I was gutted when I heard the news about the Campbell trade. I’m sure details will leak about whether Seattle was in or out and why. I hope it means that they already have their FA budget “tentatively” allocated and we will be hearing some good news as soon as FA officially starts.

      • AlaskaHawk says:

        This has to be an inside deal. No way that some other team wouldn’t offer more.

        • king. says:

          The contract is likely the bigger issue than the draft compensation.

          Unless Campbell nixed Seattle for some reason, we can assume Seattle would have been willing to send a 5th for him, but they weren’t willing to give him the kind of contract he was looking for, even though he is apparently willing to restructure for a lower 2020 cap hit.

    • Scot04 says:

      I was worried about Clowney going to Baltimore. Campbell for a 5th is brilliant. Plus the can still add Clowney. Great start for Baltimore. Seattle needs to step up for Clowney.

    • When I saw “CC” I thought of Chris Carson, so I was relieved when it was Calais, even though he would have been a great addition.

  19. Volume12 says:

    Jags will have $69, nice, mil in cap space once Ngakoue is traded.

    The Khans gonna sign a bunch of geeks down there in Jacksonville like Tony did with his/their wrestling promotion?

  20. Reading that if/when the league goes to 17 games they will have a bye week between the last preseason game and the first game of the season. That really isnt necessary.

    • With this for trade for C Campbell does this mean that Matt Juden will probably be traded can Baltimore sign them both . It sure is a huge advantage when you have that 5 year window with a decent QB which you you don’t have to pay. I hope we have a plan because if we could haved C Campbell for let’s say for a 4 round pick .

  21. Rob Staton says:

    One trade confirmed and Tannehill on the brink of an extension in Tennessee.

    Just start the league year tomorrow.

  22. Happy Hawk says:

    Baltimore gets Campbell for a 5th round pick they acquired from the Vikings for a backup kicker that was cut 3 weeks after. I love JS but are you kidding me a 5th round pick! We have 2 4th rounders and cap space. In my non-informed opinion Campbell is a difference maker on the field and the reigning Walter Payton man of the Year caliber guy for our team and community. A sleep at the wheel? Bummed beyond belief!

    • AlaskaHawk says:

      Something smells funny about this trade. How about they consider it an initial offer and run it around the league one time? I bet they would get a lot more for him, perhaps a 2nd rounder???

      It’s an inside deal to the team that needs defensive linemen the least.

  23. Anyone watched tape on Kennesaw St RB Bronson Rechsteiner?
    5’10” 223

    • Volume12 says:

      No, but that’s Rick Steiner’s son. He’s training to become a wrestler like his daddy and uncle.

      Steiner brothers are my all-time favorite tag team. God I miss late ’80s-early 90s WCW.

  24. drewdawg11 says:

    https://youtu.be/kj3AT4W0_YE

    Yes, and he’s fun to watch. The kid just goes balls to the wall and wants to dominate people. How realistic is it that he can do that at the next level? I would definitely want him in camp as a late round/FA pick and maybe we can bring the fullback back into the offense. The niners use their athletic FB as a weapon. Maybe he’s a guy who can emulate him.

  25. Steve Nelsen says:

    I am seeing some analysis about how the new CBA effects the salary cap for the upcoming season:
    1. The cap is a bit lower than originally projected by Spotrac and others
    2. There are a couple extra roster spots
    3. There is an increase in minimum salaries

    But I haven’t seen much analysis on the item that would appear to have the biggest impact; a full prorated 17th game check. Please share here if anyone sees something about how much it will cost Seattle to add another check for Russell, Bobby and the rest of the guys under contract.

    • cha says:

      My understanding is the 17 game season would not start until 2021 Steve. So the 2020 cap would not be affected by that extra game check.

      • Steve Nelsen says:

        Yes, you’re right cha. There is a good piece by John Gilbert on sbnation breaking down the effect of the new CBA on the Seahawks.

        His analysis leaves Seattle with approximately $30 million after accounting for slightly lower 2020 cap than projected ($2M); 2 extra roster spots ($1M); practice squad ($2M); draft picks ($4M); injured reserve ($3-4M); and increased minimum salary ($3M).

        • Rob Staton says:

          I read the words ‘good piece by John Gilbert’ and laughed.

          • Cameron says:

            Yep, found myself rolling my eyes way too often when reading his material at FG when he first joined on. Just one of the reasons I don’t even bother going to FG anymore for analysis, though I’ll still stop in during the season for Mookie’s ‘Enemy Reaction’.

        • cha says:

          So I’ll be the first to admit I haven’t read the CBA A to Z, but I don’t get his calculations at all.

          2 extra roster spots ($1M); draft picks ($4M);

          Huh? Your 2 extra roster spots will be filled by draft picks. There’s no need to double dip the cap impact.

          And have we established that the increased rosters take effect in 2020?

          And have we established how many players count against the cap in 2020? It’s always been the top 51. Is it the top 53 now?

          practice squad ($2M)

          Again, huh? Practice squad players have never counted against the cap – just cash spending by the team. Unless there is some new provision in the CBA that says this?

          —–
          And I’ll be honest, I tend to question this guy’s work because he’s made several strange assertions about the cap and what the Hawks can or can’t do and been only willing to discuss them with people who view him as some kind of genius cap guru.

  26. So if we could get a nice 8 man rotation for our DLine like we had in 2013 what would it consist of? Two Leo’s, three DT’s, and three 5 techs’s? With the thought a 5 tech could slide inside to a DT spot on passing downs? We currently have two guys who could play 5 tech (Green & Collier) and one of the DT’s in Poona Ford.

    Possible Leos:

    Bigger names: Ngakoue (trade), Fowler, Robert Quinn
    Lesser names: Bruce Irvin, Beasley

    Just trying to have some fun as Im bored as hell.

  27. Nike just announced they are closing all there stores for the next two weeks. Wow!

  28. Two years $33 million for Anthony Castonzo ($16.5 APY)

  29. drewdawg11 says:

    The deal appears to stink. Cap should be much larger if you’re going to account for a 17th game. No extra bye week is not player-friendly. Not as much money doesn’t change the narrative. Fix the damn defense and fix it ASAP.

  30. CHawk Talker Eric says:

    How can BAL trade for Calais Campbell before the League year begins?

    Can another team still offer JAX more for him?

    I have a hard time understanding why SEA wouldn’t have been in on this, especially for such a low price. Unless it’s just a little friendly collusion between DeCosta and Caldwell 🤷🏻‍♂️

    Something feels off about it.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Trades happen before the league year starts all the time. They’re just not officially finalised until the new year starts.

      Seattle traded for Harvin before the league year began. The Skins traded for Alex Smith weeks before the new league year began.

  31. SteveLargent80 says:

    Calais and Baltimore finalizing a 2 year deal worth 27 million. 20 million guaranteed

    • Two year extension or rip up the last year of his deal to make a two year contract? If its the latter two for $27 sounds about right. That would probably lower his 2020 cap hit to around $12 million.

      • Zeke says:

        Passing this up seems to indicate they aren’t desperate because of better plans, I guess this is a good sign. Or they think he regressed to the point where 12 or so million is too much…

        • All I see is 12s says:

          Yeah like when they let Okung walk because they had a better plan with Sowell….
          Sorry, just kind of getting tired of hoping for the best. Would have loved to have both Clowney Reed AND Campbell but oh well. I hope you’re right.

          • BobbyK says:

            “Yeah like when they let Okung walk because they had a better plan with Sowell…”

            You just made me laugh! hahaha

          • Rob Staton says:

            In fairness, the feeling was at the time that Okung wanted to move on. The scheme had worn him down and he wanted to go to a more pass-friendly offense was the suggestion by some. That would help him extend his career. So he ended up in Denver and then San Diego/LA. Plus he was acting without an agent that complicated matters somewhat.

            He also left at a time when they had paid to retain the entire LOB, Bobby, Russell, Baldwin, Cliff, Bennett etc. Someone was going to not get paid.

            So it wasn’t really a case of ‘letting him walk because they had a better plan’.

  32. dj 1/2 way says:

    One CBA detail not mentioned above is that the 5th year option for 1st round draft picks is now guaranteed. I think that means it is more likely the Seahawks, and other teams like the Patriots, will trade out of the first round.

    • SteveLargent80 says:

      Also, there is no difference in price for the fifth year option between top 10 and other first round picks. Everyone gets paid the same on the option

  33. cha says:

    In the absence of live sports, I’ve been watching the NFL’s posts of old Super Bowls on Youtube. Forget the Niners choking a lead away last year and the Falcons dropping the 28-3 game to the Patriots. SB XXII, the Washington demolition of Denver was maybe the biggest turnaround in NFL history.

    First quarter, with 4 minutes to play, Denver leads 10-0 and has the ball at the Washington 30. At that point,

    * Denver had triple the offensive yards Washington had
    * Washington receivers had 4 drops
    * Washington had already punted 4 times
    * Washington had 3 – 3! – rushing yards as a team. Timmy Smith was their starter and had a CAREER regular season stat line of 29 rushes for 126 yards.
    * Doug Williams was writhing in pain after wrenching his knee and was being examined by doctors while backup Jay Schroeder was being chased around the field by Denver pass rushers

    But that was it. Denver would never score any more points, and Washington would open the 2nd quarter with a Williams bomb to Ricky Sanders, and score 5 TDs in that quarter, obliterating the SB record for points in a quarter (21) by two touchdowns (35).

    What a great moment for the NFL. And I’m not just saying that because I hated Denver at the time.

  34. cha says:

    Ian Rapoport
    @RapSheet
    The #Titans have agreed to terms with QB Ryan Tannehill on a 4-year deal worth $118M, source says. He gets $91M in total guarantees and $62M in fully guaranteed money. A huge payday after leading Tennessee to the playoffs.

  35. Cant believe Tannehill got that much off of one OK season. He barely even threw in the playoffs. Good for them as they can now tag Henry as there is no Tannehill without Henry.

    • Henry Taylor says:

      It’s always a tough situation when it comes time to pay a mediocre QB, because it’s gonna hurt but if you let them go you run the risk of falling apart without viable alternative.

      It’s why I never understood when people actually questioned whether Russ was worth his 35m apy, because the difference between him and Tannehill on the field is a whole lot more than 5.5m in cap space can make up for.

  36. charlietheunicorn says:

    This is why we come here for hard hitting analysis:

    “With an increasing number of people talking out of their arse, they probably need a bit more (tp) these days.”

    LMFAO

  37. charlietheunicorn says:

    “And there’s a new “Veteran Salary Benefit” that allows a team to re-sign up to two of its own players per year (provided they have at least four years of service time) and exclude as much as $1.25 million of each player’s base salary from each year’s salary cap. Here’s an example: Let’s say you’re a four-year veteran on the Jets, and they want to re-sign you. They can offer you a one-year, $6.25 million deal, and only $5 million of it will count against their salary cap if they designated you as one of their two VSB exceptions. If you left and signed with, say, the Patriots, for one year and $6.25 million, the Patriots will have to count all $6.25 million against their cap. It’s sort of a starter version of the NBA’s midlevel exception rule, as I understand it.” ~ ESPN

    Very interesting, kind of like the NBA mid level exception in practice.

  38. Paul Cook says:

    My savior. 🙂 I’m going to grab a cup of coffee and have a listen. Appreciated.

  39. evan says:

    I can’t abide a 17th game. an odd number of games makes zero sense. I still can’t believe they agreed to it. when they add the 17th game i’m gone. so I guess 2020 will be my last year as a Seahawks fan. I already stopped watching the World Cup because they ruined it with their greed.
    I hate the 21st century.

    • Kingdome1976 says:

      Overreacting much?

      • evan says:

        There are countless examples in our society these days of enduring, valued products, like the NFL, or the World Cup, or Star Wars, that are actively being made worse for the sake of increased profits. we liked them perfectly well the way they were, but they had to alter and degrade them to squeeze out an extra million bucks. but they can only profit if we keep buying what they’re selling.
        so I won’t buy it. a line has to be drawn somewhere. I’m done.

  40. Michael P Matherne says:

    Calais Campbell to the Ravens for a 5th round pick??? Why was that not us?? That’s infuriating

  41. Benjamin I. DAVIS says:

    That’s the only reason this makes sense. Because we could have easily outbid the Ravens.

  42. Sea Mode says:

    Me 2014-2019: staying home from work, shunning contact with people outside, locking myself in my room for days on end during the months of March and April.

    Me in 2020: same, just I don’t have to make up some s****y excuse to do it!

    #businessasusual #SDBjunkie

    • SebA says:

      So true 👏 😂

    • Volume12 says:

      Facts.

      Ya ain’t got to tell me twice to stay home watch tv, eat junk food, and use all this technology. I already get upset when someone knocks on my door unexpectedly.

  43. TomLPDX says:

    Guess Tom Brady is down to only a few options now since the Titans signed Tannehill and the 49er’s said they are sticking with Jimmy G. Poor TB12!

    As for Drew Brees, I thought that was pretty cool saying he’ll take less than he could get on the open market to stay in NOLA, probably so they can keep Taysom Hill in the fold and start utilizing him more as a QB. Sean Payton is such an innovative coach that I expect NO will have some pretty interesting plays next year….should be fun.

    • They better extend him quick. He has $15.9.in dead money co.i gogg on Wed Wednesday. If he signs for say $25 million after Wednesday his 2020 cap hit would be $40.9 million.

  44. cha says:

    Mike Garafolo
    @MikeGarafolo
    ·
    31m
    Mentioned on
    @nflnetwork
    the majority of team executives I’ve spoken with are operating this afternoon as if the league year will start on time Wednesday with the negotiating window starting tomorrow. League executives having discussions on that now.

    • Sea Mode says:

      Adam Schefter
      @AdamSchefter
      ·1m

      Multiple people across the league now are anticipating that the start of the league year will not be moved and it will start on time, per sources. There still are ongoing conversations, and it still could change, but there is a different tone from teams as if it is happening now.

      • cha says:

        It’s almost 5pm ET. Chances are 90% it’s on. The league would have to have made a decision to postpone by now.

  45. Kenny Sloth says:

    Joe Burrow is like if Baker Mayfield never got tackled by cops

  46. Paul Cook says:

    The NFL off season. It’s like the only game in town now. They win again.