New podcast: The Seahawks are O-lining the D-line

September 7th, 2020 | Written by Rob Staton

Here you go… our thoughts.

160 Responses to “New podcast: The Seahawks are O-lining the D-line”

  1. Aaron says:

    That opening was just was today. I’m a sucker for dark humor.

  2. Aaron says:

    *That opening was just what I needed today

    I came out of the gate fast with that one…hopefully like the Hawks offense will do this season, but with better results than me.

  3. Big Mike says:

    Bradley Freaking Sowell. Sigh.
    I am a bit more optimistic than you on Green but otherwise…………very (sadly) amusing opening and of course quite creative.

  4. cha says:

    Oh my.

    https://www.seahawks.com/news/monday-round-up-seahawks-defense-predicted-to-have-best-season-since-2016

    Lastly, the defensive line is still looking solid, too.

    This unit is the most underrated part of the defense, but could become the unsung hero if everything falls right.

  5. hawkfanforetenity says:

    Partway through the podcast now. Just want to thank you for continuing to put out quality, reasonable, logical content. And thank you for putting up with all the rubbish sent your way to do so. Sad to see so much of it. Your articles are massively appreciated.

  6. cha says:

    Nice cast Rob, I didn’t know you had John Williams on retainer to score the intro music.

    One thing that is really concerning on the DT depth, (besides the fear of an injury) is that Reed is the Seahawks’ best player on the DL. Bar none, full stop, period. But you’ve got no one to give him a real break. So here you’ve got an expensive player and he’s going to be worn out by all the snaps he’s going to get. That’s not only bad management of resources, it’s going to water down his talent, as you just can’t expect him to have the impact you want.

    I don’t see Mone as a 3T, he’s more of a classic 1T or NT.

    Which means (unless you have some other acquisition in place), the Seahawks will be left with using Collier or Green as 3T, and not just reducing inside on passing downs. Reed simply cannot play every single down. And now you’ve got, say Green-Poona/Mone-Collier-Mayowa in base downs.

    That’s just too many lemons to make lemonade.

  7. Chris says:

    Thoroughly enjoyed the podcast, keep em coming!
    I also enjoyed how the two of you disagreed somewhat on the Jamal Adams trade. I wouldn’t mind seeing you debate more on a player or position you have different stances on and attempt to persuade the other to join their view.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I’m sure we’ll disagree on different things over the coming weeks — rest assured we won’t hide away from that. Not sure we’ll necessarily try and persuade the other to change their mind but we’ll certainly exchange ideas.

  8. Don K says:

    I really feel we are putting way too much emphasis on not having Clowney. Every year is a gamble and Pete and John are counting on the young guys to come through. I believe!!!

    • Rob Staton says:

      I literally said in the podcast — and in numerous articles — that it’s nothing to do with Clowney. He was simply the last remaining available option.

      If they’d signed other players in free agency to fix the pass rush that would’ve been fine.

      The issue isn’t losing out on Clowney. It’s doing a bad job addressing your self-confessed priority.

      And no amount of blind faith will be a counter to the fair points raised.

  9. Rob Staton says:

    Here we go then. The press conference.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Carroll on Clowney:

      “We were involved throughout but had moved on early”

      That doesn’t make any sense Pete. Which was it?

      • Robbie says:

        Same song and dance but this was extremely confusing. Involved throughout or moved on early?

        • Rob Staton says:

          It made no sense.

          Pete also seems deflated today. No energy.

          • cha says:

            He was definitely frustrated. That little quip about getting asked so much about the pass rush, his mask slipped a little.

            • Rob Staton says:

              Especially considering… he was asked about it once.

              Two questions on Clowney (thoughts on him signing for Tennessee, how close did you get) and then Art Thiel’s good question on the D-line. He also used the word ‘anxious’ several times to describe seeing how the pass rush fairs. I know fans on other sites are trying desperately to suggest this was a grand plan executed to a tee — but to me Pete seems as concerned about his lines as we are. He’s not daft. He knows what he’s got. We can all see it.

              • cha says:

                I also think he was pretty straightforward that they’re not going to “scheme up pressure” which a lot of fans have been talking about as a way to compensate not getting it with the front 4.

                • Rob Staton says:

                  He was flat.

                  But I’m not surprised.

                  In it with Clowney until the end. Said a week or two ago they thought there’d be some interesting cuts.

                  Didn’t get Clowney. There were zero interesting cuts.

                  No improvement to the weakest position on the team.

                  Concerns with both lines to the extent they’ve tried — and so far failed — to convince Justin Britt to return. So much so he’s currently visiting with the Packers.

                  He was really positive about Ethan Pocic which was classic smoke-blowing bollocks. ‘Ethan has been great, looked so good, won the job… so much so we brought in the old center for a workout and tried to sign him a few days ago’.

                  He knows as well as we do they have a trenches problem. And he’s going into the season hoping for the best, which is scary.

                  • cha says:

                    That offhand comment about Pocic getting surgery for something that’s been bothering him for years…..a little trying to talk himself into Pocic is a good player now?

                    Got something that we’ve been neglecting for years fixed and now the frog is suddenly a prince?

                • WALL UP says:

                  We’ll see. Sounded more tongue and cheek, gamesmanship. Why would he tell the opponent that they would be blitzing?

                  • cha says:

                    Guy who rarely schemes blitzes says he’s not going to scheme blitzes.

                    I feel like the odds are he’s not going to scheme blitzes.

  10. Rob Staton says:

    Finally, Art Thiel asked a question that needed to be asked about the D-line.

    Would’ve liked the rest to follow it up rather than resorting to questions about ‘how different’ the season start is due to a global pandemic (then following up on whether they have people ’employed’ to look after covid stuff).

  11. cha says:

    [Boyle] How feel roster game week? “Camp successful, guys healthy. Guys did a nice job getting it done. Guys reported in better condition than we anticipated. Worked together we hoped. Gotta start playing games and find out how we match up.”

    [ben arthur] Clowney joining Titans? “Good player. Long offseason in terms of trying ot figure out how that was going to work out. Involved throughout. Moved on early in the offseason. Should be a good addition for them.”
    [ben] DL as constructed, how to scheme up pressure? “Not going to do much of that. Coverage will as well. Pleased with what Benson and Bruce have done to lead us. Taylor in the mix soon. Hopefully with Damontre coming in will help us. Give us a chance to get something going. Alton fits in, had a good camp, early season will tell us.”

    [corbin] Only 17 players claimed, Walker, what seen from him? Where fit? “Stay in connection to college film. Interested in draft, SAM or LEO. Edge rush ability. Really good opp to get a guy with upside. Figure they probably were going to put him on PS. Our guys used evaluation from before and figure it out.”

    [bob condotta] Haynes IR? “Hip issue we’re concerned about. Find out what we need to do to make sure he’s healthy. Disappointed, he worked hard, hip wouldn’t let him get through it.”
    [bob] Shaquem waived & back? “We wanted him on our team, fortunate to get done. Good ballplayer, had a good camp. Roster turned out, this is where he had to start. Week 1-2-3 he’ll be ready.”

    [gregg bell] How close to Clowney? “Talked to him throughout process, amicable conversations. Sights set really high to start with. Put him in situation where he had to wait it out. Our offer not attractive to him. Had to wait it out.”
    [gregg] Didn’t try last chance offer? “In it the whole time. John was in on all of it.”
    [gregg] Josh Gordon? “Can’t comment.”

    [joe fann] Dunbar back? “Back in town, going through protocol.”
    [joe] Tre Flowers coming into camp? “Tre came back w level of confidence, 2 years behind him. Benefited from. Really good camp, best he’s been. I think he was pressing last year a lot. Didn’t settle in with outlook.”
    [joe] Spot set? “Not yet.”

    [curtis crab] Long term outlook for Penny, Taylor, Parkinson? “All 3 anticipate coming back. All 3 contribute when they can come back. All competing to be back earliest date possible. Only 1 guy to IR (BJack). Should be a good return.”

    [michael dugar] Victims of brutality, Tshirts, helmets, how go about? “Player driven, supported them totally.”
    [michael] Coaches? “Patches”

    [brady] NFI rules different about when they can start practicing? “Have been adjusted, not sure I got them all nailed. Let me let our guys figure it out. I believe they get a few more weeks to practice.”
    [brady] Taylor, close to practicing? “Watched his workout the other day. Pushing it hard, big progress strength wise, watched his workout with him. Has to prove he can handle the workload when he gets back.”

    [Art] Departures on DL, improvement over year ago? “Like speed on outside. All guys have numbers to bring with them, 16 sacks benson and bruce, guys last year didn’t bring anything near that. Like to see Reed come back to numbers years ago. Stilted beginning last season, great shape this season. Could be in good shape.”
    [Art] Different pressure from last year? “More activity, passes, containment of activity. Hopefully see that.”

    [AJ] Different week one? “COVID competition all the way, battling it. Not a nuisance, been different. Protocols not as set as we’d like them. Have it by weekend. Testing on the road, we have to work out. Tremendous challenge from admin side.”

    • cha says:

      [AJ] Might be a ridiculous question (?), People specifically dedicated to figuring out COVID? “No I’ve been involved all the way. Multiple scenarios, awaiting decision what we could do.”

      [Omar] Playing time widely distributed to eval roster? “There is some convo we’ve had about that. Just to make sure we don’t overburden someone early on. Part of the focus for us, yeah. Typical with no preseason.”
      [Omar] Experience w college? “Yes”

      [Jackie] Looking forward going up against another team? “Everything. Guys up front on offense. Anxious to see edge play. Anxious to see pass rush that you guys have been asking about. RB battle. Guys from year 1 to year 2. Really excited about a few of our guys coming up.”

      [curtis crab] WR spot, depth of group? “Feel pretty good. Moore had a good camp. Veteran been around can do all kinds of things. Philip practiced today, every indication OK. Really fast, synched up really well. Impact of Olsen, well rounded throwing game. RW great offseason, lights out in camp. Excited.”

      [Levine] Vote on team captains? Starting C? “Didn’t miss it. Ethan Pocic start. Great camp. Offseason on athletic hernia. Great camp, terrific, most exp guy handling our system and it showed. Captains, Wagner on D, RW on O, Nieko Thorpe ST.”

    • Frank says:

      That seemed like a deflated Pete Carroll, I’ll admit as optimistic as I am about the revamped secondary, you could tell PC didn’t get what he wanted in total this offseason. I rewatched the 2012 nfc championship game vs Atlanta this morning thinking about how the defense functioned minus Chris Clemons, and PC’s vow to prioritize having multiple pass rushers on the defensive line. In came Bennet and Avril the next year. I do feel like there’s a certain amount of just being spoiled as fan and expectations that every year should be a super bowl dominating rooster. Without Adams and Dunbar I don’t think anyone would argue the back half of the defense was good enough, but it leaves you with a defensive that strongly resembles in strengths and weaknesses of that team.
      The quote from your interview with Peter King about him being more concerned about the defensive line being able to contribute in the running game still rings true in a way you have to think about. I expect more sacks from Irvin and Mayowa than Clowney would have produced, but neither are anywhere near what he offered as a run defender, and as promising as Green has been he still has a substantial jump needed in stuffing the run lanes. Having watched how the PC/JS built the first championship the major difference hasn’t been philosophical, it’s been absolute failure to get difference makers in the draft. Green, LJ, Taylor, and Robinson are truly essential a solid starter or two come out of, the next couple years of this team is absolute dependent on it. I’ve seen them pass on multiple player that I consider over rated or not reliable enough from injury concerns regardless of media pressure, Clowney Who can’t get sacks,, Ngakoue who only had one peak year three years ago, and is a liability in the run. Clay over the hill and undersized, Griffin over the hill. Every option at edge was a flawed option, and it’s 100 percent the fault of the draft scouting if they can’t find option that work out better in the long run given how many draft high picks have been spent there recently.

      • Rob Staton says:

        “I do feel like there’s a certain amount of just being spoiled as fan and expectations that every year should be a super bowl dominating roster.”

        I certainly don’t feel that way. I just want the team, when they spend $50-60m, use a full draft and then trade their next two first round picks, to do a lot more to try and actually fix the problem they said was the #1, top priority.

        • Frank says:

          I totally understand and relate to so much of the frustration, especially given every other position on the team besides the trenches is an embarrassment of riches. The blame has to start shifting away from what overpaid free agent we weren’t able to land, and onto why has the hit rate in the early rounds of the draft been so incompetent in filling the needs on the line, offensive and defensive after shotgunning draft picks at the position. Maybe it is foolishly optimistic, to think adding Taylor, Lewis and Robinson could actually be successful, as it seems we’ve been snake bitten bye injuries badly since the McDowell pick.

  12. Rob Staton says:

    My takeaways from the press conference:

    1. Pete seemed flat. Very little energy.

    2. The comment on Clowney (in it all the way to the end, had moved on early) made no sense.

    3. He used the word ‘anxious’ about four times in 15 seconds to describe the two lines and pass rush. Anyone who thinks they’re happy with those areas is kidding themselves.

    4. Although it was good to hear Art Thiel offer a somewhat challenging D-line question (can you say you’re better this year?) We will never, ever, see a press conference with proper, challenging questions. This was the ideal time to ask whether their actions befit a statement of the pass rush being ‘the priority’. It was also a fair question. Nobody asked it. But we did get the usual stuff about covid impact, protests etc and someone even prefaced their question by saying, ‘this might be a ridiculous question’.

    5. How do you know when a coach is insulting your intelligence? When he spends 30 seconds waxing lyrical about how good Ethan Pocic has looked at center, when we all know they’ve been working out Justin Britt to come back and start.

    • cha says:

      Do all NFL teams have so many “team reporters” employed by them asking questions? I counted 3.

      So bizarre to me.

      • Rob Staton says:

        I’m not sure. It’s an interesting point.

        But it’s pretty clear nobody’s interested in digging around to try and glean an answer from Pete on how ‘the pass rush is the priority’ turned into what they ended up with.

        In football terms the press pack had a 30.4 quarterback rating today.

        • cha says:

          I had a better batting average prediction the questions asked yesterday. I was 4 for 5.

          I’m not proud of that.

          • Sea Mode says:

            Not sure how you could have missed predicting Jackie’s Q about how excited they are to play against another team… 😂

      • TJ says:

        I don’t know, but as someone who lives in Seattle, I think there is a general relaxed niceness here that other media markets don’t have. I can’t think of any sports media types here, other than Softy, who get fired up at our teams and ask tough questions.

        • Mike says:

          Born and raised seattle, and there’s a politeness thing, but this is beyond just trying to be nice. It’s clearly structured pandering and formulaic. Frankly, seahawks interviews now are boring. Even if you are gonna ask softball questions, at least make them fun and entertaining. Football is entertainment.

          Referencing a comment from a press conference and saying “is the pass rush improved from last year?” is pretty basic reporting on a relevant topic.

          But i dont care about how covid protocols and preparations are going. I dont need updates on wearing masks and washing hands. I assume they do that. That’s not fun information or useful information. I dont need questions like “how are you feeling?”. Like, does the media think they are conducting a therapy session? If you’re the player, what are you supposed to say when given dumb questions?

          Then go watch the real rob report. Those are softball questions..but entertaining. Fun. Insightful into the locker room fun and player relationships.

          If you aren’t gonna talk X’s and O’s at least ask entertaining questions.

  13. Scott says:

    I know Pete is a big believer in his philosophy, but if he was ever going to change it defensively this would be the year. Maybe scheme some more blitzes and play Adams to his strengths. The defense line is a disaster so I hope they will try and scheme around this and be more creative even though that isn’t Pete’s nature
    Finally Rob thanks for the grate content through the years I have enjoyed your opinion on the Hawks and like the honest assessments

    • Rob Staton says:

      Well, they’re going to have to try something. But people need to be ready because the ‘scheme’ is staying exactly the same. Any changes will be within the confines of the existing scheme.

      • Scott says:

        Then are defense is going to be a repeat of last year and that isn’t good enough. I do not believe are d line can perform. Hope they do but not very confident. Pete as I feared in his presser was asked if they would blitz more he pretty much said no.

    • cha says:

      He said that wasn’t happening in the press conference just now.

      We’ll see. They do dial up the occasional corner or safety blitz but this front 4 isn’t getting through very much.

    • Bobby54 says:

      I still think/hope this is what is going to happen. We actually did it quite a lot last year, so we did change a bit of our philosophy/scheme. I looked up some stats on PFR and regarding blitzes, our % went up from 18,4 (28th) in 2018 to 26,9 (18th) in 2019. In total, we had 64 (176 to 112) more blitzes than the year before.

      That puts us pretty much in the middle of the league, but it is actually higher. A lot of teams ahead play a 34 defense where blitzes are just by design because you only rush with 3. Compared to other 43 teams (especially those similar to our scheme) like SF (20,9 %) or the Chargers (13,7 %) we blitzed way more often.

      Those other teams didnt need to blitz because they have very good pass rushers but it still shows that we adjusted our defense a bit because our pass rush was so weak. Bobby blitzed 71 times compared to 41 times in 2018. Jamar Taylor in his limited playing time blitzed 14 times from the slot corner position. Lots of other examples like KJ and Kendricks. I remember corner blitzes from Tre as well.

      This year our pass rush is probably weaker than last year. So we could see another increase in blitzes. All of our key additions on defense are considered very good blitzers (Jordyn, Jamal, Marquise if you consider him getting playing time as a nickel as another addition). Ken Norton specificially mentioned Blairs blitzing skills when talking about the Nickel position.

      So there is hope that we see some juicy packages with Quandre as a single high and Bobby, Jordyn, Jamal and Marquise behind our DL. Could be very fast, unpredictable and fun to watch. Also not bad against the run. And we need better run defense. That was a bigger problem than our pass rush. And that says a lot.

      • Scott says:

        I hope you are right this is what I am hoping for. Pete always says he wants to use everyone’s special talents and this would be the way to do it.

  14. cha says:

    Ian Rapoport
    @RapSheet
    Sources: The #AZCardinals and star WR DeAndre Hopkins are closing in on an agreement on a contract extension to properly compensate their star. Hopkins did the deal himself.
    4:26 PM · Sep 7, 2020

  15. Big Mike says:

    Just a reminder folks, Everson Griffen signed for 6 with an NFC team.

    • Rob Staton says:

      The exact same amount Seattle used to retain Joey Hunt, Branden Jackson and David Moore as RFA’s (before cutting or restructuring their deals months later because, you know).

  16. Ashish says:

    This off-season is in books and not so good one. Good luck everyone

  17. Nick says:

    Mate, that opening. 10/10.

  18. cha says:

    Bob Condotta
    @bcondotta
    Carroll with an interesting note on waiving Shaquem Griffin — they figured due to testing protocols and all that few players would be claimed off waivers this year. Took chance and got him back. Hinted strongly he’ll be on active roster at some point early.
    4:53 PM · Sep 7, 2020

    Revealing. So all that smoke about picking up players to bolster the DL after cuts was just that. Smoke.

    Not that anyone put much faith in it anyway.

    • charlietheunicorn says:

      They probably assume someone will get the COVID or someone will get an injury.
      I think positive COVID test means they can pull a PS guy up to the 53 man roster with 90 minutes to go before game time (?) So, this actually is a pretty straight forward assessment by PC….. because everyone might need to play at some point. Another head coach coach more or less said the same thing, EVERYONE… including the PS, better be ready to play each and every game, incase they are needed literally right before the game.

  19. BobbyK says:

    Our DT situation after Reed reminds me of the time they were comfortable with Drew Nowak as the starting center. Anyone remember that disaster? Made Bradley Sowell look like Walter Jones at LT.

  20. charlietheunicorn says:

    So what everyone is really saying on the blog is… LET RUSS COOK!

    • Aaron says:

      The offense will have to carry this team. Despite a better secondary on paper, the dearth of talent on the d line will hurt their performance. Russ will need to lead this team out of mediocrity and into relevance once again. I think they’ll have to average 28 to 30 a game to be successful. I also suspect it’ll be difficult at first. These first two or three weeks are going to be difficult league wide for o lines due to all the offseason COVID-19 issues. I won’t be surprised that we’re 1-2 entering October.

      • charlietheunicorn says:

        It might also make the defense look better than it actually is…. due to “enemy” OL woes.

        Got to get off to a good start vs the Falcons… and not let up… since no lead might be safe in any game at any time. Sometime, when Seattle feathers the gas pedal, that causes games to be closer than is necessary. If it goes shoot-out, that is fine, but if it turns into letting a team such as the Falcons hang around…. could be bad news.

        I recall tyhe SB winner last season kind of did the Offense carry the Defense thing for a chunk of the season, until they got in gear towards the playoffs. Not saying Seattle D and Chiefs of 2019 D are equivalent, but the season might play out similarly (except the playoffs/SB part).

        Seahawks need to average over 28 Pts scored / under 23 given up to have a shot at the NFCW. If the D is giving up 25 or 26+, could be a tough season for the fans.

    • Scot04 says:

      They need to do something, because the current construct of our D-line could easily put us at 3-5 through our 1st 8 games.

  21. We have 6mil more to spend…maybe little less because they need to save something for IR…

    Question is, is there player who is worth giving that money to him…

  22. Edgar says:

    That opening was absolutely hilarious!

  23. Coach says:

    Can we sign a DT like Snacks for 1.5 mil and Clay Matthews at DE for 3 mil?

    Then I’d feel better!

    Does Mayowa have the ability to move inside like Bennet used to and have Matthews and Irvin on the ends?

    Go Hawks!

  24. EranUngar says:

    The opening is a true work of art. Even though I do agree with the general mood here, it is worth cheering for.

    And while we are on the topic of past Oline legends I would like to tell one of my own:

    Many years ago, in a land far away, grew a young handsome lad who led the Mid-American Conference in tackles for loss and sacks his senior year at Western Michigan University and signed as a rookie free agent DT with the Jacksonville Jaguars in 2012.

    After an underwhelming chain of events he ended up starting for the 2015 Seahawks OLine as a center. His name was Drew Nowak.

    He was as much of a disaster as any of the notable samples in that glorious opening and by mid season the Seahawks had enough and relieved him of his duty.

    It was the merry days of the Tom Cable era so there is nothing surprising about this episode.

    By the end of that season the Seahawks ranked 1st in the NFC because they were great at other positions and made up for roster mistakes at various positions.

    The Seahawks will start the 2020 season in a few days facing Matt Ryan, Julio Jones, Calvin Ridly and Todd Gurley followed by the Belichick bunch and the mighty Cowboys OL + Prescott, Elliott, Cooper & CeeDee Lamb.

    In 3 weeks we’ll find out how much of a dog’s meal they made of this off season. If they lose 2 out of the 3 games – everything said hear over the past 6 months was spot on. If they stand at 2-1 – the jury is still out and if the make it 3-0, well….

    • Rob Staton says:

      The Seahawks were actually only the #6 seed in 2015 Eran. They finished 10-6 and were quite a ways behind the Panthers who were the top team in the NFC (15-1) and the 13-3 Arizona Cardinals.

      They were very lucky to beat Minnesota in the playoffs and were then blown away in the first half of the divisional round by the Panthers.

      Your example really contradicts your argument and works more in favour of my own. They were only good enough that year to finish 10-6 and make a hasty exit in the playoffs. If that’s what happens in 2020, everything I’ve argued will be proven right.

      And no — we won’t find out in three weeks. Even if they start 3-0 it won’t prove anything.

      If they win the NFC West, claim a high seed, play playoff games at home and make a serious push for the Super Bowl (such as at least playing in the NFC Championship game) — then we will know if I’m wrong.

      If they finish with nine, ten or eleven wins and finish second in the NFC West, exit the playoffs in the first two rounds and have the same season they’ve had for the last five years, I will be proven right. Regardless of how they start.

      It’s perfectly plausible for them to win more games than they lose, as they did in 2019, with a terrible pass rush — and that pass rush still be the deciding factor in why they failed to progress.

      • cha says:

        If memory serves that was also the year they traded Max Unger and their first rounder away for a shiny new toy.

        Started the year with Patrick Lewis and Lem JP as their projected combo at C.

        Eerie.

  25. Trevor says:

    Really enjoyed the podcast Rob keep up the great work! This format with you and Robbie works really well.

    My take on Pete’s conference is that he knows they suck on the OL and DL. Knows he will have to scheme to make up for deficiencies and that is not his style. He is one of the great defensive coaches of all time and if we can see the DL problem you know it is a flashing red light for him. As much as he tries to sugar coat it his energy level game week said everything you need to know.

    As for the silly mixed message on Clowney it is what we have been thinking all along. They made what they felt was their best offer to Clowney likely a 2-3 yr 15 mil APY deal and he wanted to see if he could get better. They gave him an ultimatum and he said no thanks. This was over months ago. He was never and I mean never signing a 1 year deal with the Hawks to get double teamed on every snap. If the Hawks wanted him they had to sign him to a long term deal as a cornerstone on the DL to build around. That is a deal that could have and should have been done with the cap space they had available instead of wasting it on guys like Finney.

  26. Trevor says:

    The really sad part is that with the Cap space they had the Hawks could have easily singed

    Clowney 3-4 yr 18 mil APY
    Griffen 1-2 yrs 8 mil APY
    Mayowa deal like they made

    That could have easily been done instead of Finney and all the RFA signing (Moore, Hunt, Jackson, Hollister)

  27. Largent80 says:

    If they fart around like this year for the following two years (especially after losing all that draft capital)….getting a new extension for RW will be extra difficult.

    • Chris says:

      Don’t forget the no trade clause in his current contract as well. If he does decide he’d rather play elsewhere, the best we’d get is a comp pick. Things will get very interesting in a year or two.

      • TomLPDX says:

        I think the no-trade clause works in Russ’s favor because it will allow him to veto any move that he doesn’t like and keeps him in the driver seat.

        • Chris says:

          It’s absolutely in his favor, I’m looking more at the Seahawks side of it. They have very limited draft capital in the next few years with a lot of holes to file. Add on top of that fiasco if Wilson chucks deuces and we can’t trade him away and get somewhat of a decent compensation. The team will crumble quickly if the dominoes fall in a certain order.

          • Scot04 says:

            Not that they should or would trade Wilson; but i doubt they could get a deal as good for Wilson as they gave up for Adams. Which also Shows how desperate they were to do that trade.

  28. SeahawkeyezSubj80 says:

    After listening to Clayton podcast from Monday, it seems as if Clowney had no desire to stay in Seattle. PC/JS got used by Clowney to get out of Houston. The connection between Vrabel and Clowney too strong. Front office debacle. Why they didn’t go after Everson Griffin??? Sounds like they knew they were on the outside looking in Clowney chase. Hence “monitoring”

    • Trevor says:

      Been saying that since day #1 there was no chance he was coming to the Hawks on a 1 yr deal. It was a long term at the market deal or nothing and the Hawks were not willing to make that commitment.

      Makes the fact they never had a plan B even more upsetting.

  29. Big Mike says:

    Everson Griffen could’ve been had for a little over 6 cuz that’s what Jerruh signed him for. Far better option than Clay Matthews imo, if Seattle even signs him.

  30. Ashish says:

    we all are bummed and disappointed with what we could have done. But remember its not us, it is JS and PC who makes the call. So let’s calm down and try to enjoy the season. Even with everything going as per plan it’s difficult to win all the way, players form, injuries plays important role.
    I always love to come to this place because it educate me on players and find encouragement on what a player can do. I understand we did worst possible thing on our D and O line and it needs to be criticized. I don’t like the negative atmosphere around here which I don’t associate with this place. One of the comments to Rob was totally not appropriate and out of line. That is simply ridiculous. Whatever is the outcome of the season let us not spoil this place.

  31. cha says:

    The more I think about the mishandling of the Clowney situation, the more I think it started last year when they traded for him.

    Clowney picked the Seahawks and made references to the culture and players. But he also negotiated a no-franchise tag promise from the Seahawks. That should have been a big red flag as to what he thinks his value is. The tag for 2019 was $17m or so for DEs, and obviously that was only going to go up.

    Basically Clowney was signaling what he thought his worth was -OR- that he was willing to take less in order to choose the team he was going to play for in 2020.

    The Seahawks obviously didn’t value him at the franchise number.

    So either A) they valued one year of him at $8m (I suppose you could call it even less since they offloaded Mingo’s contract) as worth Jacob Martin and a 3rd round pick , or B) they felt pretty strongly that they could talk him into taking less on a long-term contract.

    And since they tried to resign him on their terms, B is the more likely answer.

    It would appear the miscalculation started last year.

    • GerryG says:

      I kind of agree, I think they somehow stubbornly believe they are going to get a discount. They seem to have felt that way with Frank Clark too, and off loaded him when they couldnt get the discount.

      Seems nuts and stupid considering they were willing to give Wagner record $, despite going into contract #3 and being at the age of potential decline. And of course now they have completely ignored having the horses in front of Wagner to keep him clean.

      I am just so perplexed by this whole thing. Even if you subscribe to the idea of building back to front (prioritizing the secondary) you still need to sign some moneyball-type value guys on the DL. They did that with Mayawa, and sort of Irvin, but nothing at DT, and you need another value Vet at DE (Griffen or someone) to max out that moneyball type plan of approach.

  32. cha says:

    Ian Rapoport
    @RapSheet
    Sources: The #AZCardinals are making star WR DeAndre Hopkins the highest paid non-QB ever, giving him a 2-year contract extension worth $54.5M in new money — $27.25M per year. Hopkins, who did the deal himself, gets $42.75M guaranteed at signing.
    9:32 AM · Sep 8, 2020

  33. Scot04 says:

    Wow crazy 2 year deal for Hopkins. 27M per. Just wow.

    • Scot04 says:

      Talk about a great job representing yourself. Hopkins definitely did well.

    • James Z says:

      It helps that Murray will be on his rookie contract for 4 more years. Shouldn’t be a huge problem going forward with their salary cap. It sure raises the bar though for other teams in signing their elite WR’s next season and beyond.

    • pran says:

      18per year avg for 5 years with year 5 out option..

  34. Trevor says:

    With only 3 DT on the roster I wonder if the plan is to play Collier at 3 tech full time. I would not mind as he is definitely not twitchy enough to play DE IMO even as a 5 Tech.

  35. I think on first down he will play 50-50% 5T with Rasheem.

    On 2nd down he will play 50-50% 3T with Reed.

    On 3rd down 50-50% 3T with Green. 😀

  36. Gaux Hawks says:

    rob was 100% correct from the get go… and more particularly, i can’t believe they didn’t cut hollister and sign clowney (seemed like the most obvious scenario). i hope jacob proves me wrong and earns those checks.

    rob, i was waiting for that “told-you-so” moment, but i’ll eat my humble pie… and cry myself to sleep.

    what now?

  37. pdway says:

    https://twitter.com/BradyHenderson/status/1303125509828616192

    Notes that his understanding was Clowney’s initial ask was $21M/season. You can see why the Hawks didn’t pay that. If any/all of our supposition is true (either he didn’t want to play here, or he only wanted a long-term deal to stay, etc.) – then the fail here is in moving on to a plan B quickly.

    I guess they can say that Irvin/Mayowa are that plan B, but with such a strong roster elsewhere, we really should have been in strong on at least one other proven pass-rusher.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think there was some arrogance or over confidence too.

      IMO they thought Clowney would come to them at their value when he discovered his market.

      He didn’t.

      They kept waiting.

      And waiting.

      And had their pants pulled down.

      • pdway says:

        thoughts on this premise (which fits your note of arrogance, though I guess they would call it principle) – which is that the PC/JS regime has prided itself on assessing the appropriate value for players (along w the right time to re-negotiate) and they don’t waver from it – ever.

        idea being that over time they’ve built a reputation for this sort of fidelity to their valuations, and by not straying from it, they gain credibility in the negotiation marketplace, i.e. when Pete and John say their best/final offer is X, they really mean it.

        I’m not judging the efficacy of it, that’s for sure up for debate, but just think that that’s how they operate.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I think that’s fine.

          Waiting six months for a player though and missing out isn’t good enough though. They should’ve moved on earlier.

          • pdway says:

            yep.

            now that some dust has settled – there’s really no excuse for not at least adding Griffen to the mix w Irvin/Mayowa. He certainly wouldn’t have hurt, and we could afford him. It’s a real own goal, as you once described it.

          • TomLPDX says:

            and that’s the crux of it. They should have moved on early with Clowney in the rear-view mirror.

        • dcd2 says:

          I definitely agree with this take on their valuations. I would argue that it carries forward to the draft as well. Which is why every year, when they call out our picks, we have to scroll down the consensus draft boards to page 2 or 3 to find our pick. Damien Lewis is the one guy I can think of who was by and large a ‘value’ based on where we took him. Unfortunately he was our 18 OL at the time he was picked.

          It just seems that they come up with their own value on a player and that’s it. Mayowa/Bruce/Finney/Ogbuehi/Olsen all seem like we were the first and only offer and that is all those guys needed to hear. Likely overpays all around, but those agents know a good deal when they see one and jump. Conversely we risk the entire state of the DL on getting the ‘right’ value on Clowney (or any other difference maker). But sure, we’ll give up our starting safety two #1’s and a #3 for Jamal.

          None of the deals they’ve made seem like “good value”. The draft picks seem too soon or entirely questionable, in regards to roster construction (Parkinson, really??). We’ll trade a kings (figurative) ransom to move up for an injured Taylor, but won’t throw in a future 7th to move up a couple of spots for a DT like Rashard Lawrence?

          Call it hubris. Call it sticking to their guns. Either way, it seems they internalize their value of a player and that’s it. Take it (sometimes we overpay) or leave it (miss out on our guy).

          • Rob Staton says:

            And I think this is a problem.

            Not because having an internal value on a player is a bad thing. It’s a good thing.

            But they’re all over the place. And when things go wrong they’re reactionary.

            Throughout this reset they’ve been rolling with the punches. At no point have they come out of a draft and you’ve thought — right, job done. This is the team. Every bloody year it’s, ‘they’ve not finished yet’ and there’s a massive glaring hole on the roster that still needs to be filled.

            A year ago they risked going into the season with a terrible pass rush and Houston bailed them out. This year, nobody’s bailed them out.

            It’s not a good way to run a football team and Russell Wilson covers their arse because they can win games thanks to him.

            • dcd2 says:

              Right. And like you said about their draft from last year, where they lay out their plan (DL and S – hypothesis), there doesn’t seem to be a viable pivot. The DL and S they wanted weren’t there, so they move to DL & S 2.0 instead of looking for OL help or taking one of the WR like Deebo, AJ Brown, DK or Maclaurin.

              Sometimes it works out – like when Frank was there due to character concerns and an unresolved DV issue, or when DK continues to slip due to a neck issue and limited route running. But those are risky hit-or-miss picks that hit.

              An odd mix of confusing prioritization and reactionary moves has given us this iteration of the Hawks. As Jake Heaps said in the Brock and Salk interview – If this works out, many teams will consider a more back-to-front approach to building a defense. BUT it is extremely risky and doesn’t feel like it was the plan to start. Which brings us back to the baffling choices of overpaying our role players at the expense of building a solid core.

              • Rob Staton says:

                On what Heaps said (and others have said the same) —- I think it’s a red herring all this talk of the league copying Seattle ‘if it works’. The Seahawks are not going to revolutionise the league and start a trend of crap D-lines being the new norm.

                Teams are never going to downplay the trenches.

                The Seahawks merely did a poor job addressing the need and are now left hoping for the best.

                • dcd2 says:

                  I won’t rehash our debate on whether this was a change in plan after missing out on the top DL and seeing the likely outcome of the Clowney situation or simply an institutional failure throughout.

                  We are officially a team that has made the bed of an exceptional back 7 with one of the worst DL in the league though. There are no more stones to turn over, no draft picks left to trade. So regardless of how we got here, our talent is on the back end and not in the trenches. We both have our doubts as to how effective that can be.

                  I hesitate to bring this up, as I understand the VERY different schemes and approaches of the teams, but it is the only hope I can find for this defense becoming average: New England fielded one of the best D’s in the NFL last year and did so with a largely unremarkable DL. Their top sack guys were 3 LB’s and a DT and none had more than 7 sacks. They had a very good secondary anchored by Gillmore and they managed to cobble together 46 sacks from 11 guys. Yes, they ran a 3-4. Yes BB is one of the greatest defensive coaches ever, and yes they play in the worst division in the NFL. BUT, they did not have a great DL, and yet were able to have a great defense.

                  We don’t need to be a great defense. Perhaps not even an average one. Below average might be the best we can hope for, but at least there is a precedent for a budget DL doing ‘enough’. A great secondary with really good LB and a bad DL, might make it all a below average defense. Let’s hope that is enough.

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    You just called it an ‘exceptional’ back seven.

                    I’ll wait to make that judgement.

                  • dcd2 says:

                    Semantics. How about good? We have an All-Pro, a two pro bowlers & a guy PFF graded out as 2nd in the NFL at CB.

                    Use of adjectives aside, the strength of the team is the back 7. Maybe that can carry us to being a better-than-27th defense.

            • dcd2 says:

              This DL reminds me of the 2018 WR group. We had Doug Baldwin (Reed) and Lockett (Poona?) and nothing behind them. Lockett’s best season to that point was his 664 yards as a rookie.

              I remember writing on here: What happens if Doug gets hurt? Well, he got hurt in the first game and missed a couple of games and was never really healthy the rest of the year.

              We were 4-5, but somehow squeaked into the playoffs despite RW throwing for 300+ only one time in 7 games. He had one game where he threw for 60 yards! Our last game to eke into the playoffs was a 27-24 win against a 3-13 Cardinal team, where no one caught more than 2 passes.

              This feels like a DL version of that, where we can probably put up points, but will be giving them up as well.

              • Rob Staton says:

                I think it’s very generous to compare Reed to Doug and Poona to Lockett!

                • dcd2 says:

                  I mean at the time. Lockett had 3 years of middling 500-600 yard seasons. Doug was on the downturn, and it proved to be his last season. Not prime ADB or Lockett, just the only guys you could feel a modicum of comfort level with.

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    Doug was consistently excellent.

                    Lockett was never middling even if his production within a certain offense was.

                    It’s very very generous to make the comp!

                  • dcd2 says:

                    Lockett was coming of 3 years of averaging just under 38 yards per game. Really bearing down on my descriptive’s eh?

                    My point again, is that we are one Jaran Reed injury from having the worst DT situation that I can ever remember, in NFL history. Poona, Mone and no one!

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    That doesn’t matter. Seattle has never had mass production from its receivers. How many years did it take their number one to even get 1000 yards?

                    Lockett was awesome from minute one, has been highly consistent and a vital commodity. The comparison was and is very generous and that’s be being kind. Let’s be real. Poona Ford doesn’t deserve to be in the same stratosphere as Tyler Lockett.

                  • dcd2 says:

                    It’s the situation of being one injury away from complete system failure that I’m referring to. Sure Poona and Lockett aren’t apples to apples for a variety of reasons. WR was paper thin that year and led to some truly awful passing games, as well as an absolutely stubborn commitment to running it over and over. Part of that was born of necessity after Doug went down and came back at a reduced capacity.

                    If Reed goes down, what happens at DT? We can’t even manage a rotation as it stands. Do we suddenly convert to a 3-4? Do we just start grabbing the Mebane’s and Dareus’s of the world. Throw them in protocol and hope they can get in shape in a week?

                    My point is that the lack of depth is frightening at DT. In 2018, after one injury, we couldn’t pass the ball and went 9-7 with a 1st round loss. In 2020, with one injury, we won’t be able to get off the field as opponents run it down our throat for 5+ yards per play.

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    Well I agree with that. The depth at DT is terrifying and damning.

              • dcd2 says:

                And if Reed goes down, we’ll need a *miracle to remain competitive.

                *Looking at you Russ

      • Pran says:

        I would say they failed to get a read on Clowney after the initial negotiations. they hitched their wagon to Clowney and waited. Clowney never considered Hawks (without meeting his ask) where as he was willing to lower his ask for teams with loaded rosters.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I don’t think this is true.

          I think the Seahawks thought they could recruit him at their pricing range even a sit lowered. And Tennessee just made a better offer in the end.

          • Pran says:

            They were ready to offer him 18 or 15 earlier but not 12+3 for one year now? given the state of DL, options available and season at stake, cant they do that? its a tough nut to swallow.

    • Ashish says:

      They could have sign atleast one Griffen/Rober Quin/Calais Campbell/flower and than wait for Clowney. That way they are covered in either scenario. Counting on Moyaya and Irvin is little too much. Happy to proved wrong

  38. Gaux Hawks says:

    thoughts on a DT signing? any trade candidates?

  39. hawkfanforetenity says:

    Rob, I was wondering if you were planning on writing an article on the path forward from here. The DL is obviously a massive issue that doesn’t look fixable in the near future. Do you have thoughts on how they could address it, I guess it’s going to be next off-season, and the potential LT and OL issues that are looming?

    It doesn’t look easy with minimal draft capital. Which leads us with free agency (no idea who might be available), and hoping that some of the unproven players blossom. They certainly will be given the chance this year.

  40. Sea Mode says:

    Brady Henderson
    @BradyHenderson
    ·37m

    The Seahawks are promoting WR Penny Hart from their practice squad to their 53-man roster, I’m told.

  41. TomLPDX says:

    Uhg, I am so tired of having questionable players on our squad. You can’t rely on them. Case in point:

    https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/09/08/new-text-messages-could-pull-quinton-dunbar-back-into-hot-water/

  42. Ashish says:

    DeAndre Waker 2018 highlights looks good. Since first year he was injured so basically he is rookie. Lets hope we got some developmental player