— Troymaine Pope and Alex Collins both played well. The problem is, it’s unlikely you can keep both. Do they really need to stash another young RB? Would it be the end of the world if either moved to be a backup for a different team? Are they more likely to stash Pope or Collins ahead of George Fant or a defensive back? Unlikely. Pope has the speed and quickness, Collins ran the ball well and had a nice blitz pickup for Jake Heaps. Both scored. This one is really close.
— Keenan Lambert flew around the field. He was constantly involved on special teams and was always around the ball on defense. It might be unlikely he makes the final cut but this was a really nice performance by #38 and he was one of Seattle’s best against Oakland. He couldn’t do any more to make this team. Can he edge ahead of someone like Steven Terrell or Tyvis Powell?
— Trevone Boykin is not going to be the backup QB on this evidence. “He had some problems tonight” — Pete Carroll’s review of the situation. Carroll admitted Boykin couldn’t get the players lined up properly and “wasn’t as sharp as he’s been”. He had to deal with a poor display from the second string O-line and had a handful of nice scrambles to extend plays. Yet he also made poor decisions when he did have time. On back-to-back throws in the fourth quarter he should’ve been picked off and the botched snap turnover was surprising given Joey Hunt and Boykin played together at TCU. He also had the intentional grounding safety. The protection was very poor but did he see the pressure? Did he make the right choice to try and extend the play or should he look for the hot route? Seattle’s best plays on offense came in the run game. They have to think about a veteran backup who can simply get them in and out of plays and make good decisions.
— Quinton Jefferson belongs in the league. He looked terrific. Justin Hamilton also performed well.
— The starting O-line might be solid but the backups were a mess in pass pro. Rees Odhiambo in particular just looked out of sorts and gave up one really ugly interior rush. Hunt had the bad snap and Fant had a rougher time dealing with a decent Oakland defense.
— The less said about Kevin Pierre-Louis’ tackling the better. Did Kache Palacio beat him out tonight? Palacio had the FF/recovery and impacted the game.
— Frank Clark and Cassius Marsh were both very active. Both need to finish though. They splash plenty of times and impact plays — but always seem a split second short of the big play.
— The second string run-D was very impressive. They barely gave up any ground. Seattle’s depth on defense is excellent again.
— Nobody really separated in the WR battle on a night where the passing game struggled. That’s good news for Tanner McEvoy, who didn’t feature due to a groin issue.
So where do we go for QB now?
No where, we have Russell Wilson.
Have to wait and see who gets cut.
Know it sounds crazy, but would Kaep be a viable option potentially? He’s obviously got the media distraction going on, but in just a football sense, doesnt he fit as a backup to RW better than anyone that would potentially be available?
Way to much of a contract to inherit and way to much of a mental case even if it wasn’t
I think he would fit. It’s just whether he would want to come to a team where he has virtually no chance of starting vs somewhere like Minnesota.
I think Kaep makes the 49ers, and if he isn’t the day 1 starter, he eventually reclaims the spot. His skill set fits too well what Chip would like to do.
I could be wrong but if we’re looking for someone to manage the game, not turn the ball over, get everybody lined up in the right spot, isn’t Kaepernick a pretty bad option?
If you want to run running plays, read-option plus deep shots almost exclusively from your backup QB, Kaep is a great option.
Personally, I would rather have Tim Tebow as the backup QB.
Regardless of anyone’s opinion the the subject, it’s just another example of what an absolute mess the Niners organization is.
Isn’t Butt Fumble available? Haha Maybe only half kidding, though…
Honestly, my guy continues to be Aaron Murray. Forget getting a Wilson clone. Get a guy who can distribute to our playmakers, throw with timing and rhythm. KC was shopping him, so he could be had.
If not him, I would take a run at Gino Smith. Jets have too many QBs, he’s been okay before.
Add two things:
1. I like a QB trained by Andy Reid. Generally knows what he is doing.
2. People say we need a guy who can run like Wilson so we don’t have to change the offense. To me, “changing the offense” for a pocket guy like Murray means going to the offense we ran in the last eight games last year, more of a quick passing attack, more empty backfield, 3- and 5-step drops….. So, yeah, I don’t mind changing the offense if we have to.
Oh please no Geno Smith.
If we’re going for a vet backup it should be someone reliable. Not a guy with maturity issues.
BJ Daniels is available right?
Have to agree that it doesn’t look good for Boykin. In the end, what do you want from a backup qb? We already have our qb for the present and the future. Boykin is fun to watch in a scramble backyard type of game. If we were Cleveland, maybe keep him around, but not for a team that is strong on both sides of the ball and can’t have, in an emergency, a complete liability at qb.
Boykin definitely struggled, but that grounding for a safety wasn’t on him, it was going to be a safety anyways, he had multiple defenders on him immediately. That play reminded me of Russell his rookie year, hadn’t yet learned to hit the hot route or throw it away.
He did have a hot route that he looked right at and for some reason didn’t throw it.
Look, if Boykin is playing in the regular season he will be surrounded by the starting offense. That makes a big difference. He clearly had struggles last night, but that back-up line was an absolute hot mess. He had guys pushed into his lanes as soon as the ball was snapped. Penetration was so deep and immediate, he didn’t even have a chance to use his legs to extend plays. Things to improve? Absolutely. But I think this might be one of those snowball instances where bad things got worse and he couldn’t find his way out. If anything, I’d be pointing to the Oline and asking why they couldn’t even hold their ground on a single play
Any back up QB available is going to be a liability though. Most if not all of them are not going to have Boykins scramble ability or arm strength. It might take time but wouldn’t it be better to try and develop that guy? Even after the final round of cuts who exactly does everyone hope to be available? Mark Sanchez is bad he would not game manage he would make mistakes and be a distraction. Zach mettenburger was already claimed by the steelers and isn’t anything special. It’s really the question of if not Boykin then who? Also probably 0 chance of Boykin clearing waivers with so many QB needy teams.
Any back up QB available is going to be a liability though. Most if not all of them are not going to have Boykins scramble ability or arm strength. It might take time but wouldn’t it be better to try and develop that guy? Even after the final round of cuts who exactly does everyone hope to be available? Mark Sanchez is bad he would not game manage he would make mistakes and be a distraction. Zach mettenburger was already claimed by the steelers and isn’t anything special. It’s really the question of if not Boykin then who? Every other QB is too expensive or not worth it in terms of ability
I was trying to find a list of QB free agents but Ive been ripped both times, but I’d take TJax over Boykin. I didn’t see good decisions or the big arm everyone was talking about. Rob touched on this in the podcast a little bit, saying he was unsure if the Hawks would roll with Boykin or opt for a more reliable, veteran. I wouldn’t be upset if we kept Boykin, but I think it would be risky.
So are we assuming Boykin gets put on the PS? Maybe he will grow into the permanent backup.
I find Marsh really frustrating, he always seems to be a step too slow to make an impact. I don’t think he offers too much at SAM, we haven’t seen much of him in coverage but I’d imagine that’s by design. He has a nice arsenal of moves to his rush but it all takes a hair to long to develop, he never bursts off the line and gets in the QB’s face.
It’s possibly time to cut the cord on KPL too, and you can bet your ass SAM backers will be high on the person of interest list (along with QB) when cuts start coming through. Palacio could stick but Schneider and Carroll will have a list of guys they’re hoping get chopped over the next few days, my spidey senses tell me one of them makes the 53 over in-house options.
Palacio to me looked fantastic! I think KPL loses out. After his struggle last year and now his continued poor performance all pre-season, I think the UDFA beats him out.
I echo the thoughts on KPL vs Palacio. KPL has all of the measurements, but Palacio is a football player. We’ve all seen the potential in KPL, but I’ve never witnessed the corresponding production.
Concerning Marsh; even w/ his game against KC this year, most of his plays were against backups. The thing he has going for him is his ST play.
Seattle won’t keep three QBs. So unless they can stash Boynkin on some IR (note his hand injury when he somehow didn’t think of getting out of bounds) another team will snatch him up.
Collins vs Pope; I love Pope, would have liked to see him against ones.
Williams at TE; what a find! Fits the nasty mold perfectly.
Good point on ST play man, that might be where his real value lies.
“unless they can stash Boynkin on some IR (note his hand injury when he somehow didn’t think of getting out of bounds) another team will snatch him up.”
Worth noting here — he only had offers from Seattle & Dallas as a free agent. Not sure he’s done enough in pre-season to change that situation.
Kpl takes horrible angles and just doesn’t like to tackle. For all his speed, he’s just another Aaron curry.
I actually think Marsh showed well in coverage last night — at least in the couple of examples I noticed.
I think he has plenty of splash plays/impact plays — but needs to finish.
I don’t have anywhere near as good an eye as you Rob, so didn’t notice the positive coverage assignments.
I’ve always liked the way he uses his hands but, as you point out, it rarely results in an sack or hurry. If he isn’t disrupting offences when playing against backups and soon-to-be-cut level opposition, in his third year, then I’m not sure if it’s going to happen.
He’s good in run support, can play in space, and splash, is a core special teamer. Just hasn’t gotten home to the QB. I think the team hangs onto him, but probably looks to add veteran help.
Marsh gets off the snap quickly and usually tries to beat his man using his speed on an outside move. But, once he feels contact, his effort seems to dissipate and he just ends up running past the qb. I used to applaud his pursuit, but on some plays last night, he seemed to be content to watch the action as it moved away from him. He seems to have lost the hunger ……… maybe he senses that his days are numbered and he just doesn’t have all the tools he needs.
Webb has to have lost that RT job to Gilliam. He couldn’t block his own shadow last night. And will they really keep Evans? He was a turnstile as well.
Either way, someone who poaches Pope or Collins will all make us heartsick. Pope might become a nice Darren Sproles type of back, a guy with a permanent 3rd down job who drives defenses crazy.
And Tye Smith looked horrible.
I agree on Tye Smith. To me Burley easily beat him out, he’s had a strong outing. Even though he might not have a ton of upside, he’s solid, and man does he blitz well!
Also it looks like to me that Simon has regressed. Not surprising to me that he hasn’t been getting any first team reps. Terrible ball awareness and is getting beat too many times.
Simon drives me crazy when he makes a good coverage play then follows it up with something like that end zone play where he gets his hands on a guy in front of the ref. Terribly inconsistent.
Would you rather keep Simon or tye smith? Simon being on a contract year kind of wants me to see him cut. He was horrible so many times this season and I wouldn’t trust him on the outside. Smith may have been bad too, but at least he has 3 years under contract.
If the contract were not an issue, I’d prefer Simon. He has started before and was actually pretty good when he was healthy – which has been iffy. Smith, I just don’t see a guy who can cover another team’s backups. They’d have to think a lot of him to keep him in the long term plan.
Elliott looked Superior to both last night. To bad he got hurt because I would keep him over both right now.
That might just be a blessing in disguise stash him on IR let teams forget about his play. I also thought Elliot looked good this preseason he is a ball hawk for sure and if he can be on IR and work with the coaching staff until week 6 (or whenever they are allowed to bring him back) it could actually help his development without the pressure of needing to make the roster
Felt Boykin has shown enough. He needs reps and it’d be different if he played with the ones. Given he is a clone of Russ, I think the need to bite the bullet and groom him. No way the win the SB with any backup currently available.
The depth at LB esp outside is very poor. KPL looked dreadful; for all his athleticism he missed tackles, was beaten to tackles (see Coyle) when in a better position and failed to chase down ballcarriers.
Oakland looked really good and deep on the front 7. I’m actually jealous of their depth. Concerned the OL may struggle when the real season kicks in but always hard to tell
I too am very frustrated with Simon; would love to see him play and try to see what happens if he didn’t foul the receiver. Tye Smith looks a year away. Elliott really flashed for the first time. Powell very athletic but was not great positionally. I feel like the Hawks get these SPARQ freaks but many lack instincts and fundamentals. Case in point Burley vs Smith, McCray vs Powell/Lambert, Morgan vs KPL….
Hoping they keep Pope. Again he is unique, could return punts/kick offs (thinking Lockett won’t at some point) and Collins just isn’t a difference maker.
Anyway, we are essentially talking about the backups and the bottom 20% of the team
“I think the need to bite the bullet and groom him”
Two things here:
1. It’s very difficult to groom or develop a young QB as the backup or non-future starter because you’ll give all the day-to-day snaps to Russell. It’s why the Colts constantly struggled to find a backup for Peyton. And New England have gone through some backups with Brady too.
2. The key is to have someone who can manage the situation of Wilson being out and win games if he is absent. Can you trust Boykin to do that? Remember, he might be in for 1-2 weeks where going 1-1 or 2-0 is the difference between playoffs or not, home field or not etc.
Rob, the key for me is – with RW we can win 12+ games and make it all the way. With Boykin we can win 6, with someone else we can win 8-9.
This is a a SB or bust roster.
I don’t really care about the backup QB that can not take us all the way.
Save the money….RW or better draft next year.
That’s missing the point really though. We’re not projecting who can win a SB with this roster. We’re discussing who is best placed to act as a stop gap for 1-2 weeks if the worst case happens and Wilson gets a concussion or injury. Having someone in that scenario who can get the offense lined up properly and manage the situation would be key and could be the difference between playoffs or not or homefield or not.
The answer to that is obviously Tarvaris Jackson as of this moment. He isn’t on the roster, but then, does he really need to be? What are the chances they go with one qb to keep a roster spot for someone like Pope? The obvious concern though would be is there anyone who could step in to finish a game if needed since we don’t have BJ Daniels on the roster…
Kind of makes you wonder why they haven’t grabbed BJ Daniels yet off the waiver wire seeing how he was cut today.
Tanner McAvoy might have to do a little of that too should an emergency arise
McEvoy was terrible passing QB in college. That’s why Wisconsin started playing him at other positions.
Don’t disagree but
1. Grooming is exactly what great teams do like the Packers or SF. Sure it’s not easy. But How many qbs were traded away by the Pack – at least 2 just to the Seahawks and these guys were not starters.
2. Who is the alternative?? Esp now that Dallas and Minn are looking
I understand the desire to groom another QB with the RW3 skill set, but here is the reality that I see: Seattle is in a Super Bowl window, Russ goes down mid season for 6 weeks, they just need to go .500 to secure the division, do they feel better about Boykin getting that job done,or a game managing veteran who has won some games?
I’ve been hopeful for Boykin, but I think they probably bring in a vet.
T-Jeck,
He’ll be ready at home if something happens to RW…..
In fairness though — GB groomed Rodgers because Favre was retiring for about five different years and SF also replaced their guy. Not many teams groom a QB when their started is 5 years into a (hopefully) long career.
Respectfully Hasselbeck and Flynn were groomed then traded. Great for getting draft capital given the positional scarcity. Wolf was ALWAYS looking for QBs and they went through a ton pre Farve. NE has done the same to a degree Bledsoe, Brady, Mallett
http://www.chiefs.com/news/article-2/Chiefs-want-to-draft-quarterbacks-the-Ron-Wolf-way/dad55734-42b6-4dfb-9227-b9ca1bae7373
The thing about Collins Vs Pope is Collins is a ST contributor and is better at pass blocking at this point. The extra little things like that are what you need to keep a bottom roster player around. Pope has impressed against scrubs, but won’t be taking reps away from Rawls, CMike, and Prosise. And yes, Pope returns kicks, but I don’t think that’s enough of a ST contribution to keep him around relative to the rest of what Collins does.
I was excited when we drafted Collins. I must admit, though, that I’ve become a little frustrated that the player we all saw at Arkansas has not shown up yet in Seattle. A big part of that may be the fact he played behind a huge power-blocking OL at Arkansas, and making the transition to ZBS has proven difficult so far. I’m willing to give him this year to figure it out at the back of the roster. If he looks like this next offseason then things change.
I know it’s not really the sight for it but disappointed in Lane for taking the bait and falling in the Kapernick black whole, just don’t see the benefit for anybody no less him and hawk nation
Well, Lane was playing the Raiders in Oakland last night, so falling into a black hole is understandable.
He was being baited?
– Tharold Simon is the very definition of vaporware. He won’t be resigned next season, so why waste a roster spot?
– Tye Smith has been AWOL, Burley has easily beaten him out, maybe just go with 4 corners and keep Lambert and Powell?
– Evans and Webb looked horrible, Poole and Pericak clearly better.
– We are all in agreement that KPL has played his way off the team.
– Not so fast on Boykin, bringing in another QB at this point… he would be even more lost, would not know the offense or the OL calls, and in the regular season he would have no practice time to get up to speed.
“not so fast on Boykin, bringing in another QB at this point… he would be even more lost, would not know the offense or the OL calls, and in the regular season he would have no practice time to get up to speed.”
Not if the player is familiar with west coast terminology. And let’s not underestimate the value of experience and being a starter in this league previously.
Boykin at this point is trying to learn how to be a NFL QB. Veterans have already gone through that.
Boykin looks at least a year away. Question is, will we be able to find someone better? Will depend on who other teams cut.
IMHO, Boykin has looked pretty good in the previous pre-season games. If I was PC or JS, I would want to know what was different for him this time before I decided to throw him under the bus.
I was impressed with the Oakland D — especially the DL. Hats off to Ken Norton, Jr!!
People might be worried about Boykin, which is fair enough, but at least he was only a UDFA. Unlike the Rams who gave up a first, second, two thirds, and a first and something else next year for Goff who is currently buried in their depth chart beneath Case Keenum and Sean Mannion.
I do not know who “won” the SAM competition but i know who lost – US.
Between Reed’s toe, Hill’s Hamstring and Siliga’s whatever, we are suddenly very thin or run stopping DTs. The steal of the off season may end up being a 6-7 31 y.o. hiker with a Seahawks SB ring.
After 3 years Simon should have learned that he needs to turn and get his hands on the ball rather than on the receiver he is covering. I’m not disappointed by Simon, I’m disappointed by Sherman (a great CB but a terrible scout)
The starting OL was pushed back constantly in the run game. It was not a big sample but they did not get an inch of push.
Other than that….we are still going to be just fine.
Reed practiced this week, so far it looks like he can come back from injury fairly quickly, and he could see time against the fins. Not worried about #90. The other day I was thinking Hill’s job was safe. Today I am thinking Hamilton might have just beat him out, the guy has had a pretty strong preseason, and PC seemed to express continued frustration in Hill’s injuries during the post game.
Hammies are an omen. Hill’s 2014 flash in the pan of productivity will remain forever a tease. He’s done in Seattle. The kid can’t stay healthy and I question his off season conditioning that his hammies are acting up now.
Jordan Hill cannot stay healthy, and cannot be relied upon, so he should not take a roster slot. He needs to go on IR, and if he is needed mid-season, they can bring him back, unless another player/position is more pressing. I believe the 5 DTs will be Reed, Rubin, McDaniel, Jefferson and Bryant. This is a very solid group. Amazing how lucky we got with McDaniel.
With Siliga dismissed from IR, we can stash Hill there and if needed bring him back later.
Definitely possible.
Pope and Collins both had good games, but I would lean toward Pope because of special teams. He looks like an electric kick returner. I also like his burst through the middle or when he bounces it around the end.
I think PCJS are waiting to pounce on a combo of QB, LB, and DE that other teams are hoping to slide onto the practice squad.
Anyone surprised by how bad pretty much every rookie QB has looked in preseason (with the exception of Dak of course)? Boykin looked really bad yesterday, but not necessarily worse than any others. Goff looks really bad and you could say he even regressed yesterday. Wentz played a series and cracked a rib. I guess Lynch has looked ok, but just meh so far. Connor Cook and Kevin Hogan don’t look like NFL QB’s yet. QB is definitely NOT in Jeff Driskell’s future.
I have noticed that. After a spell of rookies taking to start immediately and having some success, it’s like we’re regressing back towards them needing a year or two. The Rams, IMO, should shut Goff down and not start him at all this year. He isn’t ready. But they will rush this because of what they paid. Eagles and Broncos seem to be dealing with this better.
I was really hoping that Fisher would start Goff right away. That would almost be a lock for us winning there week 2. If Keenum really blows it against SF, is there any chance Fisher panics and starts him against us?
For what it’s worth, Fisher has said Goff is #3 behind Kennum and Mannion currently.
My biggest joy predraft was when the Rams sold the house to pick Goff in a weak qb class. Exactly what I wanted them to do so they would stop getting guys like Donald or Brockers and continue to make our lives hell. Never thought much of Goff and I think they’ll be paying the price for that decision for many years.
Me too. On the other hand, my biggest dismay was Denver getting Lynch for nothing.
Not really, I thought from the beginning this was a terrible QB class and was mind-boggled by the crazy trades. Lynch and Prescott seemed the best to me, and that’s showing up. Cook I think can develop into a good QB, he flashes at times.
I have for a while now that the college QB is regressing horribly and at a. Tremendous rate. All these one read QBs who get their plays of the “hot dog card” from the sidelines are utterly incapable of transitioning to the pros without MAJOR retooling. It is the main reason why I find college football next to unwatchable. I only find myself watching to scout certain players, and I don’t even bother with the games as a whole. Maybe we will see a resurgence of athletic pocket-capable passers similar to Russ, Luck, and even Newton as college coaches realize that the 500 yard a game air raid offense won’t often get them in the final four
That’s why I never understood the disdain for QB Jameis Winston. Yes, he was a knucklehead or better put, a kid.
He ran one of the most complex, intricate offenses in all of CFB at Florida St. Made tight throws into multiple layers of the opposing defense, could make every throw, was clutch, poised, and a ‘first guy in, last to leave’ when it came to practices and/or workouts.
Isn’t Cam Newton one of those dudes that got his plays off the hot dog card from Gus Malzahn on the way to bringing home a national championship for the Tigers? His rookie year turned out pretty well.
The rookie QB travails can be attributed to the loathsome spread offenses infesting college football. No huddles, so no complexities, no OL play calls, just retreat for two seconds and get rid of the ball, the QB having no leadership, being replaced by cartoon signs flashed on the sideline… ugh.
I am an Alabama alum, so I saw many games that Prescott played at Miss St. I liked him a lot, and was in fact rooting for the Seahawks to take him with their final pick R3, which they spent on Odhiambo. But he was far from an elite prospect. The SEC defensive coordinators learned that they could confuse him with switching secondaries and he often was lured into turnovers. Let’s wait and see how he handles NFL game plans designed to give him false reads. Thus far, he has had a free ride from game plans and has just relied on his athletic ability.
I think it’s probably time to let KPL and Simon go. The team’s been patient enough and other guys are stepping up.
Really need to keep Pope and I really think he’s played himself onto this team. Would like to somehow keep Collins too, but Pope is doing his best Rawls/Baldwin impression. How can you not love the guy? His ability to return kickoffs also helps his case.
53 man roster projection.
QB. 2
RW3, veteran backup
Boykin kinda puked all over himself when he needed to show poise last night, and had trouble communicating. In a championship window, they need more from a backup.
RB. 5
Rawls, Michael, Prosise, Pope, Tukuafu
Pope beats out Collins. His value as a returner is a great hedge if Lockett gets injured, as a runner he just made plays, showing speed and surprising inside power, and ability to attack the holes. Played with his hair on fire. Not a knock on Collins, just a testiment of Pope.
WR 5
Baldwin, Kearse, Lockett, PRich, McEvoy.
McEvoy offers a unique skill set they don’t try to stash on the PS, and Caroll has noted his football intelligence. He makes the cut.
TE, 4
Graham, Willson, Vannett, Williams.
Injuries hav them keeping an extra player, but Williams showed enough to merit a spot anyways.
OL, 9
Sowell, Glowinski, Britt, Ifedi, Gilliam, Webb, Odhiambo, Hunt, Evans.
The starters are set, Webb becomes the swing tackle. Poole and Pericak played well enough to earn spots, a case can be made to maybe hang onto Fant, but they decide to hang onto Evans as a top reserve and veteran presence on a very young line.
DL, 9
Bennett, Avril, Rubin, Reed, Clark, McDaniel, Jefferson, Marsh, Hamilton.
The shocker is Hill not making the team. PC seemed genuinely annoyed post game about the hammy. Injuries proved him too unreliable. Hamilton had a solid preseason. The team moves on. This unit is deep.
LB, 6
Wright, Wagner, Morgan, Coyle, Palacio, veteran
Palacio did enough to beat out KPL. Coyle is a core special team player, and a decent enough backer. The team acquires a veteran player to help out with SAM/edge. Marsh could be included in this group, but I see him staying with the DL, and the teaming going with a proven vet.
CB, 5
Sherman, Lane, Shead, Burley, Simon
Simon sticks, Smith and Elliot go to the practice squad.
Safety 5
Thomas, Chancellor, McCray, Terrell, Lambert
Terrell is great special teamer, and has the speed to play single high. McCray is the top reserve, Lambert played his way onto the roster. Powell goes to the PS.
Specialists 3
Hauschka, Ryan, veteran long snapper.
Hamilton, Pope, Palacio and Lambert making the 53 would be very cool. I agree, all four players showed enough to prove they deserve a spot.
Pope looks better than any of the 3 RB’s we drafted. Whether that is a good thing or not is debatable. Pope hits the hole with authority and explodes through arm tackles. Brooks is already out and Collins nor Prosise have really impressed.
This draft class looks really solid so far, but I wonder if PC/JS will wonder what could have been if they had just spent 1 pick on a RB instead of 3.
I think Ifedi is a star in the making, and given the need for OL, can’t see them disappointed with the selection. I think Procise can be special if he can stay healthy. Pope seems very, very Seahawky to me, I think that speaks volumes about him, no slight on the other running backs taken. If Pete is going to stay true to his open competition philosophy, I think it’s going to be incredibly difficult to cut him.
I think Cmike leaves after this year so I’m hoping they somehow find a way to keep Pope to have a darting, quick tailback along with Rawls’ slashing power style.
CMike being in a contract year, IMO, is very good for both him and the team. I think the chances are he plays very well mixed with Rawls and looks to cash in with another team next year. $ next year will probably go to Mike B, and possibly Kam.
I’ve been reluctant to do this, but I am ready to jump on the Pope Hype Train.
Nice projection! I think the DL and LB corps will most likely reflect how you have it, or they’ll keep 5 LB by dropping the veteran and rolling with Palacio or even keeping KPL instead of him, and then go with 10 DL by keeping Brandin Bryant. Right now they have Marsh as a LEO, so he is acting like the unofficial 6th LB.
Yeah, I can see the possibility of 10 DL, 5 LB, with Marsh playing some SAM. I haven’t been as high on Bryant as others, but they had him on special teams a lot in this game, which could show indications they are considering him for the 53. With Jefferson being able to attack the B gap as a 3 tech, my hunch is they want to keep him more inside, and look for more edge help. Not sure Bryant has shown enough to be taken off the practice squad if he ends up there.
I am actually a fan of both Collins and Pope. Collins because he can be a solid backup RB for a between-the-tackles zone blocking team. Pope because he has the quicks and the instincts to be a playmaker. But reason prevails, and you have to ask what possible use is a 4th RB?
The 4th RB, whether Collins or Pope, would never be activated absent a major injury to Rawls, C-Mike and Prosise. Therefore, he is basically there “in waiting” and so might just as well be on the practice squad. It is hard to believe that both Pope and Collins would be claimed on waivers, so one or both should be there, but if not, another player can be found to be the backup to the backup to the backup, with odds very slim he would ever see the field this season.
I was really bummed when they cut bait with my man Soke so quickly in yhe first series of cuts. I thought he looked good enough to warrant another year as a backup. That one stung. I have seen in preseason that Odhiambo looked lost and never really shined as even a capable backup in any respect. I know lots of people just glowed about him, because Hawks fans do love thier rookies, but I was always thinking if we watching different games. Now that the chickens have come home to roost, I think Hunt, Odhiambo and Poole should all be cut loose and keep Fant, Gilliam, and Evans. Add in a vet backup C and call it good
Or well maybe 2 out of those 3 and add a C. Because honestly, would any of us feel confident if one the 3 I suggested cutting were asked to come in and fill a starting spot for any period of time? Could be Nowak 2.0. I do miss Soke, though. Also I hope they cut bait with Collins and Boykin. I didn’t really see them being able to cut it in the pros regardless of many others’ high hopes for them. We can’t carry that many RBs and I think Pope is a victim of redundancy with Prosise on the team. Too bad, because he is a cool little weapon
We need to keep Fant. Unbelievable how he’s gotten to the level he’s at in such a short amount of time.
I also just feel safer keeping Evans as a reserve. Glowinski and Ifedi look good but there’s nothing behind them if one gets injured (Odhiambo honestly looks awful) besides Evans.
I feel good about Hunt. Technically sound, if he would have been at the combine, he would have had one of the strongest work outs (38 reps of the bench in his private workout) was recruited to TCU as a DT, converted to Center and was a 4 year starter. Ticks a lot of Tom Cable boxes. Don’t know what it is about this guy you don’t like.
Odhiambo seemed like a questionable pick when we drafted him, and he hasn’t seemed to do much to change that opinion. Maybe he hasn’t been 100% healthy? It will be interesting to compare him to the career arc of several of the guys that we passed on that were discussed on this blog (Dahl, McGovern, Westerman, etc). C’est la vie
A few thoughts on Odhiambo. Cable really liked what he got out of him in his private workout, enough so that they felt compelled to take him in the bottom of R3. Clearly, there is a makeup about him that they like. They’ve moved him around the line, playing four of the five spots, instead of solely play him at postion, probably knowing this year he would be a depth player at best. So, he wasn’t settled at one spot, like Ifedi was this year, or Glowinski last year. He may also not be fully recovered from his injury from last year. I don’t think they cut him, but considering Evans can play both guard spots, or Pericak if they keep him, and Webb can also play guard, he may not be active on game days. This might be his redshirt year with a season to get stronger, healthier, and compete for a settled spot next year. Of course, he could be a surprise cut, but I kinda don’t think that is likely.
They aren’t cutting a cost controlled 3rd round pick because he hasn’t lit the world on fire during the preseason.
He was and probably always be a depth pick or backup.
Yup. That’s how I see it.
C-Dog, did you see what Utah St RB Devante Mays did last night?
18 att., 208 yds., 3 TDs.
Wow. Those are insane numbers! Seahawks definitely like those Utah St players. 5-11 220lbs. Definitely a player to watch
Kinda intrigued with the Michigan back De’von Smith. 5-11 228 pounds. I read some where recently that scouts are pretty intrigued by him. Lots of Michigan players I’m interested in, actually.
They have done it before, and I don’t think the Seahawks FO care about cost controlled players who can’t play a lick when they could easily find 3 more guys to compete next year. Glowinski was a 4th. You can find guards every year who can throw a block better then Odhiambo regardless of contract control
I think they do care about cost controlled players, or they wouldn’t have cut Clint Gresham. For a lousy 300k, they’re picking through the rookie LS scrap heap instead of re-signing Clint for the vet minimum.
No the guy before was saying that the Hawks won’t cut a rookie the drafted because they control his contract for 4 years. I was saying pretty much what you are. They will cut the crap out of a guy if they think someone can come in and do your job and if it saves them some money that’s even better
If they absolutely have to go with a QB currently on the 75, I’d actually rather go with McEvoy. Boykin looked that terrible. Saves a roster spot, and I don’t think there would be that much difference should we need him.
Hi Rob
Love the site. You do a great job! What are your thoughts about Deandre Elliot? He is another guy who really jumped off the screen last night and made a few outstanding plays. Dark horse to make the 53?
I think it’s unlikely for the 53 but hopefully he will be back on the PS. I like his potential.
He was injured in the game, no updates I have seen yet. Might be stashed on the IR.
Odhiambo drove his man to the ground on quite a few plays. Do we only notice the bad?
Is he great? No. Why do people expect every rookie to be instant impact starters? The teams that do start rookies at every position? Worst teams in the league for a reason.
Instead of reaching or fighting the board, draft good backups. It’s OK to draft in advance and looking ahead.
I don’t think it matters to PC/JS if an UDFA outshines a draft pick. They’re all part of the same class. Draft position is irrelevant to this team.
Collins, Prosise, and probably even Pope would be backup RB’s for about half the league.
And Marsh struggles to finish because he doesn’t use his hands enough.
I noticed that about Odi as well, which I mentioned in a live game chat and was immediately reminded he also whiffed on a pass-pro play. The plays where Odi looks good he looks really good. Right now he is a stronger, twitchier Sweezy who will only get better. I like him.
Interesting comparison. I like that.
What Seattle O-lineman in the PC/JS era haven’t struggled in pass pro? We all know they want and !ike run blockers because of RW’s style of play.
Seattle has led the league this preseason in yards before contact.
Yeah, I think it is way too early to close the book on Odhiambo. Glowinski wasn’t getting wild raves at the end of camp last year, he was just way better than Poole and Sokoli. I read one scouting report, I think maybe the Mayock one that suggested, if heathy and a year in a conditioning system, he has the skill set to possibly develope into productive tackle, even though he projects to guard.
As much as I’ve been impressed by Pope, I think it is way too early to give up on Collins, too. Hence making the cutdown especially difficult. When Carroll was talking about Pope, you could almost sense the dissappointment of having to choose between the two.
If he continues to struggle next year, and their have a someone breathing down his neck that impresses, sure I could see them possibly replacing him.
Here’s the rub with Odhiambo. He was acquired by moving back 5 spots. A comp selection. An extra pick to play around with and take a chance on, roll the dice, etc. He’s a guy that fits Seattle’s culture.
Not a huge risk IMO. If he pays off, you get a versatile backup O-lineman. It not, they lost what in terms of draft capital?
Yeah, classic ebbs and flows of building a roster. On the flip side, you trade the 2017 4th rounder to move up in R5 to draft Jefferson, who IMO, could become the steal of the 2016 class outside of landing Reed in R2.
Could be. But, we still have two 4th round picks this year. So that’s probably why they traded that one.
Zach Whitman thinks Seattle wanted DE Ronald Blair. And it’s kind of ironic because Blair went 152 (?) and Jefferson went 157?
I can see them wanting Blair. They said when they traded up for QJeff there was no other player on their board who they felt had his skill set. Once Blair was off the board, they probably felt they had to make that deal. I think both are going to be good players. Blair looks good in SF.
Here are my thoughts on the game/roster.
Collins seems to run like a fullback. If he could learn to block like one…
Pope is more explosive than Collins and he should get the edge.
The backup offense line looked bad. I would expect the Hawks to bring in some help after the dust settles from the waiver wire. Evans and Webb just look done. Fant and Hunt are keepers, but they need some veteran help.
Kevin Pierre-Louis looked horrible. I would expect him to get cut and the hawks to find at least one backup linebacker. Brock Coyle played his best game of the preseason.
Boykin makes it. He’s a developmental guy. Face it if Russell Wilson goes down for an extended period of time – -the Hawks season is over. Boykin could start a game or finish one up. That’s it.
I like Kenny Lawler over McEvoy. That’s just me.
I hope the Hawks find another pass rusher. They need one.
Can’t, Odhiambo, Hunt, and either Gilliam or another vet will or shoulrd be the backups going forward after this year.
I beleive Seattle will draft a rookie OT in one of the first three rounds, and sign a veteran OT to compete with Gilliam.
They have basically zero $ tied up with their O-lineman.
Doesn’t do us any good this year.
Oakland has a fantastic O-line. I’d argue it might be better than Minnesota’s.
DE Mario Edwards, jr- Denico Autry (2 studs)
DT Justin ‘Jelly’ Ellis- Darius Latham
DT- Dan Williams- Jihad Ward
DE- Khalil Mack- Shilique Calhoun- Bruce Irvin.
That’s incredible.
*Fant, not can’t
Oakland is a very under-rated team overall. They are legitimately close to being AFCCG/SB contender. They have sound coaching and front office making good moves (instead of bad ones). Sometimes, a bad outing by the Seahawks in the preseason is indicative of the quality of the team they are facing, not how good Seattle is….. however, Seattle kicked ass in the 4th quarter with the bottom of the roster guys vs Raiders bottom of the roster guys.
Oakland is my dark horse team this year to make serious noise. Like how they have Ben building things.
It is funny/ironic, when you let football people do football things, the team improves.
Yeah, I could see that.
Personally, I love what Tennessee did. RB Derrick Henry gives this team a ridiculous chess piece. Gonna be tough to slow down him and Murray behind that O-line.
We talked about Latham a bit towards the draft. I thought he looked pretty good.
Autry is a Free Agent next year
Latham was a UFDA
Collins has been good to very good at pass protection / blocking. He has also made a few nice catches on the edge.. something he was not asked to do in college. He is very dependent on the OL blocking for him to open up holes, but when he hits it… as was demonstrated on a few plays… he really brings it to the defenders.
I actually thought his 2-3 runs at the end of the game were more impressive than any run Pope had last night.
Hard decision man.
Some say, ‘why worry about a 4th RB on the depth chart?’
If we wouldn’t of needed 4 RBs last year, we’d be without our no. 2 in C-Mike this year. We saw what happened last year why they want 3-4 backs.
The Chiefs cut QB Aaron Murray….. a guy I thought Seattle would be interested in from a few years ago. Could he be brought in as the back-up QB? Would he really be an upgrade over Boykin…..
I think stick with Boykin… and if he has to start a significant portion of the season, you aren’t making the SB anyhow.
Holy cow! I wrote my posts above before I got this far. Let’s go get him!!!!
Definitely worth a workout.
Murray has a strong arm and though undersized (sound familiar) has a lot of experience as a pro style pocket passer. My understanding is that he is still not fully recovered from an ACL. Unless a backup QB is a T-Jack type, with lots of starting experience and many years in the league, it is going to take anyone the Seahawks obtain at least a month to learn the playbook and the line protection calls, and that is probably overly optimistic.
There is no backup QB the Seahawks could bring in this weekend who would be remotely ready to step in for Russ, God forbid, in the first two or three games, and probably many more than that. This is not OTAs or training camp, the regular season game preparation allows virtually no time to give reps to the backup QB. I see no rational way any QB other than Boykin can backup Russ for the first few games.
…here is what I think has to happen: a backup QB with a couple of years in the league will be signed to the practice squad this weekend. Rules now allow for a for the Seahawks to sign a player with two accrued seasons. There will be at least ten backup QBs released tomorrow who have a couple of years experience on an NFL roster but are still practice squad eligible. John and Pete will pick the guy they like best and get him ready as quickly as they can. In the meantime, Boykin has the be the guy. The Seahawks cannot carry a 2d backup QB (Heaps) who is also a rookie. If Russ goes down in a game, Boykin can finish out, but if the practice squad guy is ready, he can be called up for the next week if needed.
Could be. Although listening to PC’s post game, he didn’t sound fully endorsing of Boykin, and he has never been fully committed to him as the backup when pressed by the local media. He’s always said, “we’ll see.” I think it’s kinda likely they bring in someone else.
Seahawks sign long snapper Tyler Ott, one of my predictions just came true.
Makes sense. He provides some emergency depth at TE in addition to LS.
I think Boykin should be given a bit of a pass on this game. He was under the kind of duress that no rookie QB is going to handle well. If we can get a serviceable veteran backup then great. But it’s not like a new QB who doesn’t know a thing about our playbook will be any better. And we’ll be using a dramatically reduced playbook no matter what.
They need to devote some serious time to getting him up to speed on getting the guys lined up correctly. But that’s fixable. And he has the physical tools to run the read option and make the occasional throw, which we’ll need him to do both if he ever has to start.
I think Boykin’s ability to run the read option is a plus — as you have said. But, in the pre-season, the qb rarely keeps the ball even if the DE bites big time on the RB. So, I don’t think we have really seen what he can bring to the offense.
# # #
One backup qb who has impressed me is Colt McCoy from the Redskins. But, he isn’t going to be cut so unless the Seahawks are willing to make an expensive trade (which I would not advocate), I would stick with Boykin for now.
At the end of the day, we fans have way more loyalty and dedication to these guys than the FO. Just because Odhiambo was a 3rd and Collins was a 5th doesn’t mean they are making the team. The fans can claim certainty that these rookies are indispensable as much as they want, but some of our UDFAs could easily make the team over drafted guys. The Hawks don’t play the contract game. They will put the 53 best guys out there and field the most compete team. Guys have looked sorry throughout most of their time on the field this preseason but of course they will have shining moments. Collins, Odhiambo and Boykin may have moments but no one with an ounce of credibility can say they are near a level currently to contribute to the team. Other guys with less spectacular draft profiles appear more ready for the playing field (well hopefully an available vet in the case of Boykin). As much as I wanted to believe that Soke would be kept around, he is a goner. We fans can have our faves and our locks but we will find out tomorrow who belings and who will be selling insurance this winter
Jahri Evans has been cut. Going young on the OL.
Siliga waived off of IR with an injury settlement
FS Eric Rowe is supposedly on the block with the Eagles.
He was the 3rd ranked SPARQ player at CB in last years draft.
Yes he has sub 32″ arms, but he is 6’1 and over 200 lbs.
Will Seattle kick the tires on him?
How much guaranteed money did Evans get? And now that he is cut how does that effect dead money and salary cap?
They essentially paid him $80k to come in for a few weeks to mentor the young guards.
So he won’t get that full million dollars? That’s always been confusing to me when it comes to contacts
Nope, just the 80k.
Watch out for Poole to surprise, he has quietly had a good camp. I would give Odhi a pass as the whole line he was playing with was out of sorts. I think Simon is on the chopping block. Fant and Pope hopefully make PS. Placio over Peire-louis. Stash Elliot. McEvoy definitely makes the team, my pre-draft Swiss Army Knife!!!
He looked bad bad bad against Oak.
I was really disappointed with his inability to sustain blocks
Wow. Vikings trade a 2017 1st and a 2018 4th to Philadelphia for Bradford.
Wow, this is a terrible trade by the Vikings. However, this actually helps us this year. Bradford is probably as good as Bridgewater. We don’t play Minnesota but they play Carolina, Arizona, and Green Bay twice, which is our big competition this year. If Sam can win a few of those games that would be a nice boon for us.
A 1st round pick? Awful trade.
Wow! I had to confirm it at nfl.com it seemed so ludicrous. Shows how important that teams who are in the “win now” window have a capable backup QB. In fact, I have been frustrated that JS has not developed QBs like they did in GB. Remember all of the draft capital they recouped. Is that a bye-gone era? The NFL really needs to have another NFL Europe-type developmental league. The quality of play during the fourth week of preseason is brutal.
Panic trade. The funny thing is this came after their GM said they wouldn’t do anything crazy to morale their future. Now Philly is building their roster up with high draft capital. Wow.
*morgage* their future
Amazing to think of what teams have given for Bradford;
Rams used #1 pick and spent $60+ million
Eagles traded Foles, a 2nd and a 4th for Bradford and a 5th, signed him to $36m extension
Vikings give a 1st and a 4th for him
All for a guy who defines mediocre
oh dear Lord, it can escalate based on success!
Albert Breer ✔@AlbertBreer
Per source, the 2018 fourth-round pick that the Eagles get can become a 3 or even a 2. Triggers based on Vikings team success with Bradford.
8:22 AM – 3 Sep 2016
Someone mentioned Candy LB Zach Cunningham (6’3-6’4, 235-240) and he was on Rob’s list of guys to watch.
He’s a textbook LB. Forceful/impact player in the run game. Top notch ability to stack and shed, great speed, pursuit speed to cover ground from sideline to sideline, long, tons of burst, good power, looks like he has a strong lower body, and is great at setting the edge and forcing plays back inside where the help is. Just a very smart football player, with big time SEC production to match those traits.
Definitely a guy to monitor closely and/or put on your watchlist.
I like the look and speed of that TE from Oklahoma. Mark Andrews- 6’5, 255 lbs. Had 7 TDs last year on something like 20-25 receptions?
Good eye man!!
That’s exactly our kind of target
Wow! This Houston vs Oklahoma game has some great talent. Especially at RB.
Oklahoma’s Samaje Perine and Joe Nixon is the best 1-2 punch in the country. I think Nixon is the better overall back. If it wasn’t for that video of him punching that chick, I think he’d be a top 75 pick. He’s a borderline 1st round talent.
And Houston’s RB Duke Catalon is interesting.
*Mixon
Video of him punching a chick
#notscoutinghim2016
Some team will draft him. Unfortunately all teams make head scratching decisions.
Hey what do you think the significance of drafting locals?
Odhiambo, Palachio, Elliott
All of these local guys. Maybe they’re ghost roster candidates?
Maybe they’re guys who just really want to play for the hometeam
Thoughts?
Maybe they have more exposure and easier access to the local guys?
With Odhiambo, Udub HC Chris Petersen probably gave them a ton of inside info since he recruited him to Boise St.
Speaking of local talent, Udub game is about to be on.
S/CB Budda Baker, CB’s Kevin King & Sidney Jones, LB’s Azeem Victor & Keishawn Bierria, TE Darrell Daniels, DT E!lijah Quails, WR John Ross
Got my eye on Victor, King, and Baker who now weighs 190-192 lbs. He can be a Tyrann Mathieu type play maker.
Budda Baker’s 2016 spring testing #’s: 4.45 40, 36.5″ vert, 9’11” broad jump, 6.66 3 cone, 4.08 SS
Jon Ross is terrorizing Rutgers right now. He’s back with a vengeance.
Quails is looking like a beast, too. This team is ridiculously loaded.
Feeney cut by steelers
Cajuste cut by niners.
Does Seattle take a look?
LB Kamu Grugier-Hill
Go get Feeney, JS.
Jon Ross is back folks. Go Dawgs!
I know this game is looking like an absolute blow out. Ross already has two long TD’s in the first quarter. I believe with how the Hawks are so popular with the young football players coming out of highschool, Huskies recruiting is that much easier!
Great time for Football in the Great Nothwest!
Go Dawgs!
Go Hawks!
I know I’m not in the majority, but I think the Bradford trade was the right thing to do for the Vikings.
They now have a shot at getting to the playoffs, with Hill, they had NO SHOT. Assuming they make the playoffs, the 1st round pick is #20 or lower….. AP is not getting any younger, your window realistically might only be THIS YEAR for the Vikings.
Could we see a Sanchez/PC reunion?
Nope. The Cowboys picked him up.
Reports are Denver is shopping Talib. He’s a scumbag but he would be a great scheme fit. He would bring that Browner factor back to the team. What say you?
This is a guy who intentionally tried to rip a player’s helmet off at the 5 yard line because he knew it would only be a 2 yard penalty. Scumbag, indeed. Pass.
Talib is a scumbag, but if healthy and utililzed properly, he can still be shutdown. Add him to the LOB, and that unit would be as good as it has ever been.
He is likely to be asking for a lot of $$. Unlikely.
With John trading for two safeties, may we assume the Seahawks are finally getting serious about defending the TE?
One of those guys is a safety in name only – really just a ST ace.
what did we give up for those 2 safeties in the trades?
A 7th this year and a 7th in 2018. Basically nothing.