Observations on the draft post Senior Bowl week

January 26th, 2018 | Written by Rob Staton

— To me the week of practise in Mobile confirmed a few things about this draft class. Firstly, it’s light on legit first round talent. Secondly, while there are going to be pockets of value at different positions in various rounds — I’m not sure it’s a nice, thick class all the way through. There will be good options on the interior O-line in rounds 2-3. There will likely be a run on running backs in that same range. We’ll see a cluster of quarterbacks go early. And day three will have some appealing defensive and receiver projects. It also feels like you could write down 7-8 good ‘fourth or fifth round’ options and half of them will go in round three because the depth of talent overall isn’t that great.

— I think this assertion is backed up by how aggressive Seattle was in making trades during the season. They’ve never done that before. The Percy Harvin and Jimmy Graham deals came pre-draft, where they could make a considered decision judging the draft options vs the potential to acquire veteran talent. It’s quite possible they just felt the deals for Sheldon Richardson and Duane Brown presented excellent value. Yet the decision to go into the off-season with only one pick in the first three rounds perhaps suggests they too believed this class was a little light in certain areas.

— Here are the players I thought impressed based on what I saw at the Senior Bowl:

Isaiah Wynn (G, Georgia)
Unsurprisingly, a fantastic week. It emerged yesterday that Wynn practised with a torn labrum too and will have surgery next week. He probably won’t be at the combine but he’ll be ready for camp. To play as well as he did given the injury (and his decision to compete) is really something. Don’t be shocked if he sneaks into round one. Power, control, footwork, finish, subtle technique. He is a terrific prospect. ESPN’s Louis Riddick called him the most impressive player in Mobile. Agreed.

Justin Jones (DT, NC State)
Practised with intensity, power and explosion. Good size (6-2, 311lbs) with impressive length (33 5/8 inch arms plus big 10-inch hands). Attacked his gaps with vigour and could be a useful rotational pass rusher in the NFL. Looked really good.

B.J. Hill (DT, NC State)
Jones’ team mate also came away with an impressive week of work. He’s bigger at 6-3 and 321lbs and is a very different player to Jones. On the one hand you’ve got a possible third-down pass rusher capable of two-gapping and attacking from different angles. Hill is tough, strong and shakes off blockers.

Will Hernandez (G, UTEP)
One of the few players who could work into first round consideration. He had a terrific first day looking like the best player in Mobile. He overpowered players, showed a genuine edge and attitude and surprising agility on his feet (a slight concern going into the week). Impressive and at the very least a second round prospect.

Durham Smythe (TE, Notre Dame)
I hadn’t watched any of his tape going into the week but read a lot of reports suggesting he was the best ‘Y’ tight end in the class. Blocking is going to be a big deal for the Seahawks at this position. That said, he really flashed as a pass catcher on Thursday and looks the part. The only concern might be his short 31 1/2 inch arms. Good character, got open in the TE vs S drills and made one terrific catch on a fade against Kyzir White.

Brett Toth (T, Army)
I hadn’t really written about Toth during the week because he’s in the army. Last year they incorporated a rule that basically made it a lot harder for recruits to play in the NFL without undertaking two years of service. Apparently, there might be a way around this. If he can go to the NFL in 2018, Toth is one to keep an eye on. He’s tough, in control and had some big moments as a blocker. Could be a mid-rounder and play right tackle or guard.

Kemoko Turay (DE, Rutgers)
He’s had two years of injury issues and he’s raw. However, Turay will be a nice project for someone as a late round pick or UDFA. He looked really quick and sharp in Mobile. He’s quick off the snap, showed good bend and footwork. Technique wise he needs some work — he needs to learn proper hand-use and develop ways to get off a block. He’ll be worth a camp though.

Bradley Bozeman (C, Alabama)
On Tuesday he was great. He controlled defenders with great hand placement and leverage — plus he had the strength to finish. He wasn’t quite as effective on day two. For some reason all of the great technique went by the wayside in the 1v1 drills. However, he’s a tough, competitive interior lineman with good size (6-4, 317lbs). At the very least could be a strong backup.

Darius Leonard (LB, South Carolina State)
He’ll be a project — but what a project. Fluid hips, great speed, ideal size (6-2, 229lbs) and great length (34 1/8 inch arms plus 10 3/8 inch hands). Get Leonard on the roster. He started the week struggling in coverage but on Thursday showed major strides. He loves a hit too — he absolutely demolished one of the running backs towards the end of the day yesterday on a pass into the flat. He’ll need time but Leonard is a modern day NFL linebacker with a ton of potential.

Marquis Haynes (LB, Ole Miss)
Haynes is a playmaker, always has been. And while his role at the next level might be limited to nickel pass rush duties, he did a lot this week to prove he’s worth considering. He moves well in space, he showed well in the pass rush drills (great quickness, flashed a counter and was willing to use power in the bull rush). It’s hard to determine what round he’ll land — but he’ll be worth a shot to be an impact rotational player.

Kalen Ballage (RB, Arizona State)
The tough thing to work out with Ballage is whether all of the positivity he built up this week is ever going to lead to anything. He’s a sensational talent, looked like a receiver running routes and he’s a natural athlete. But when the grind of a 16-game season is ongoing, is he going to be there for you? That’s the big question. In Mobile he looked terrific.

Ogbonnia Okoronkwo (LB, Oklahoma)
He seemed to be trying too hard on day one but once he settled in he showed what he does best — get after the quarterback. He beat Tyrell Crosby on back-to-back snaps using an outside speed rush and then an inside spin move. He has great length (34 1/2 inch arms) and he’s versatile.

Darrell Williams (RB, LSU)
Yesterday was my first opportunity to watch the running backs and Williams stood out. He’s sturdy and well built and right in Seattle’s wheelhouse for RB’s (5-11, 229lbs). Downhill runner with power but intriguing quickness. Was stuck behind Leonard Fournette and Derrius Guice at LSU. Could be a later round value pick.

Austin Corbett (T, Nevada)
I thought he looked a bit sluggish on Wednesday but in the team drills yesterday he took no prisoners. He was driving defenders off the LOS, attacking the second level, working well with Bradley Bozeman on double teams. Top performance.

Da’Shawn Hand (DT, Alabama)
Hand looked good when he was able to avoid Isaiah Wynn. The standout moment for me was a rush he had at defensive end during team drills on Thursday. He stunted inside and just blew past the interior linemen to get into the backfield. Marcus Davenport also rushed the edge and the two met the QB at the same time. It was a flash of genuine quality and showed why Hand was once the #1 overall recruit.

— I remain relatively convinced that acquiring talent at running back will be a significant draft priority for Seattle (especially given the quality of player available). Pete Carroll pretty much spelled that out when he spoke at the end of the season. Adding at least two backs from this class seems likely.

Daniel Jeremiah listed Nick Chubb at #49 on his top-50 list. That would suggest a R2-3 type range. Lance Zierlein on the other hand lists him in R3-4. If he has a clean medical check and the kind of combine we know he’s capable of, I think he’ll be nearer round one than round four. Frank Gore lasted into round three after seriously injuring his knee in college. Chubb might provide similar value and toughness. It’d certainly give Seattle’s running game a shot in the arm if they were able to get Ronald Jones II and Nick Chubb. How likely that is, I don’t know. It’s a fun thought.

— Both Jeremiah and Zierlein have Billy Price rated in the late first/early second round range. I think he’s a top-15 talent. If Price, Will Hernandez, Isaiah Wynn and Frank Ragnow were available it’d be very easy to feel quite positive about getting one to potentially play left guard. However, there might be a reason why they’re looking at players like Austin Corbett. Firstly, they already have a first rounder, two second rounders and a player who cost a second and third round pick starting on their O-line. At what point is it down to Mike Solari to make this work, while focusing on other areas? Secondly, they might want (or need) to focus on RB and defensive front seven.

— Ultimately I don’t think there’s a right or wrong approach for Seattle at #18 (even though fans will, inevitably, pick a side on the debate). There is some value in staying put — especially if they think as highly of Ronald Jones II as I do (for whatever that’s worth) and several others do (Jeremiah and Zierlein). There’s also some benefit in trading down and being able to address several needs instead of one. If I could try and shape the debate within this community for the next few weeks I would propose the following. Debate the pro’s and con’s of both, rather than argue vehemently for one or the other.

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200 Responses to “Observations on the draft post Senior Bowl week”

  1. RealRhino2 says:

    Good writeup, Rob! Lots of names to consider.

  2. peter says:

    I’ll start.

    I’m the first to bang the drum that Seattle hasn’t been as successful at finding late round talent as fans like to believe. Not since 2013. Unless Carson comes back to what we at least think he can be, has the team received any production out of their late round picks.

    However, I’m currently leaning towards Ronald Jones II at 18. Or just to be a bit of a contrarian to Rob my possible favorite player in this draft, Tim Settle. For me either player is an actual factual difference maker the likes of which Seattle rarely has had the chance to go after. RoJo may be the best running back for what Seattle needs in this whole draft. And this might be blasphemy for the Huskies fans but I think Settle would be even better in a Seattle style rotational Dline..

    Going to my first point about late picks. There are a lot of holes on this team and a lot of space to upgrade w/o trading or cutting anyone. Kam may retire, maybe he gets the “retirement IR,” or whatever where he gets paid and does nothing but a roster spot is open.

    The team needs a SAM. A backup LB for Wagner or KJ. I love Jordan and have high hopes for him but Seattle could look at Okonronko or someone like that for additional pass rush.

    What I’m getting at is when Seattle killed it with late round draft picks they had needs. not wants and hopes that people would stick, but real needs. I think it could be fine to get a game-changing running back like ROJO and look to fill and have a real old-fashioned PC style churn during training camp.

    • GerryG says:

      The lack of continued late round success points to just how difficult it is to do that each year. If it was easy to get pro bowlers in round 5 every year then every team would do it.

      To me the biggest pro to acquiring multiple picks in the first 3 rounds (via moving back and/or other trades) is it gets the salary cap in better shape. The team needs to have a majority of the roster on low cost controlled deals due to having an expensive QB for the next ten years, and he residual high end contracts from the championship era. Younger teams typically stay healthier too.

      • GerryG says:

        The catch or con to that is what are the odds they come away with even one game changer if all their picks are in Rd2/3 in a weak draft year?

        Seems their best bet for acquiring a game changer is having 6-7 teams reach for QBs and hoping a gem falls to 18

      • TTownHawk says:

        Well said. I think Seahawks fans have unrealistic expectations for finding hidden talent because of PC/JS success at doing so early in their regime. The likelihood of hitting on your 5-7th rounders every year, or even every other year for that matter, is incredibly slim.

      • CD says:

        Also, all those hits in the 2010-2012 drafts were ‘easier’ because there wasn’t as much talent in front of them. It’s been hard having a great follow up draft when you have a lot of positions filled by Sherman, Kam, Thomas, KJ, wags, Bennett, Avril, Wilson, graham, etc. Filled = hard to develop then start when paying the above so much.

    • 12th chuck says:

      something else to consider, we may have been drafting to build depth. I don’t know how much that affects the draft choices, but it would have some. Everyone they draft is going to compete to start, but if your deep in one position, seems you would consider another.

  3. H says:

    Debate the pro’s and con’s of both, rather than argue vehemently for one or the other… wise words rob, sums up why I love this blog so much. Too often in sports, and in general, people think theyve got all the answers

    It also fits right in with my view of this draft because i just cant decide. RoJo is a phenomenal talent and id be happy sticking at 18 to get him. I feel the same way about Price. I also wouldnt mind trading down and getting Chubb, or Wynn/Hernandez and a rb later. Too many options to get on board with i dont know what to hope for.
    Im really looking forward to getting into the offseason, so many questions to still be answered before we can start to create a picture of what to expect/ hope for.
    Go Hawks

  4. Kenny Sloth says:

    Great write-up. Really awesome coverage of the camp!

  5. j says:

    What did everyone think of the QBs

  6. C-Dog says:

    Great writing, Rob. That’s going to be a fun debate. Right now, I probably lean towards trade back scenario mainly because I feel the goal is twofold: get a feature RB, and get some young impact on the defense.

    Favorite Senior Bowl targets for our Hawks include but are not limited to

    LB Darius Leanard
    LB Uchenna Nwosu
    OG Austin Corbett
    DE Da’shawn Hand
    DT BJ Hill
    DT Justin Jones
    RB Kalen Ballage
    WR Cedrick Wilson
    TE Durham Smythe

    Outside of picking at 18 for a bonafide blue chipper, would you say the sweet spot of this draft for acquiring multiple impact is day 2 and Seattle might try to manipulate this draft to achieve that, maybe with even three or four picks, or is there still a decent likelihood of value to be found middle rounds where they are sitting with four picks?

    • Logan Lynch says:

      I tend to agree with you. If there are really only 10-15 blue chip prospects like Rob mentioned, we may not have the chance to get one at 18. It sounds like there are going to be a lot of good options in the 2-4 round range. Maybe SEA trades both down early and up late to maximize the amount of mid round picks. Don’t worry about the late round picks and hit UDFA hard.

  7. VancouverHawk says:

    Best case is that we trade down to the early second and take a back (Rojo and Michel are my 2 favorites), and pick up another day 2 pick in the process.

  8. Jason says:

    Have you guys checked out Ja’Von Rolland-Jones? I haven’t watched any tape, but the stats have me intrigued.

    https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/javon-rolland-jones-1.html

  9. Tecmo Bowl says:

    Great write up Rob! Darius Leonard is really intriguing. Heard him compared to Telvin Smith, and can definitely see it.

    Going into the Senior Bowl I was looking forward to seeing the WR groups, specifically the bigger targets. In limited action that I saw, came away unimpressed. Hamilton ran some sharp routes, thought Gallup showed some things. Ateman, Lazard, Moore, Scott looked ordinary-unfortunately.

    • Awsi Dooger says:

      Hamilton looks very clever but not particularly dangerous. Washington reminds me of former Dolphin Chris Chambers — long arms and leaping ability allowing hm to play above his 5-11 height. Chark’s frame suggests great upside but I don’t fully trust him since he was not an elite recruit and then didn’t stand out in college, other than returns. Big play type who might not be dependable play after play.

      • Tecmo Bowl says:

        Like the Washington-Chambers comp. Chark has upside-didn’t see him much in the practices. LSU hasn’t had a decent passing game since Beckham and Landry made Mettenberger look good. Their QB play has been terrible for ever, making Chark’s eval tough. He definitely has had flashes and looks the part. I wouldn’t put much weight on being a big time recruit or not-historically that hasn’t meant a whole lot.

  10. KingRajesh says:

    I would be in favor of trading down, but I would want to kick the tires on any potential trades on personnel before trading down.

    Gerald McCoy seems to want Michael Bennett in Tampa. If they offer us a 3rd, I’m taking that deal.

    In a more convoluted scenario, I’d be willing to trade Earl Thomas.

    IF: Cleveland trades Pick 4 to the Bills for 22, 56, and some early pick in 2019 so the Bills can draft a top QB.

    IF: Cleveland offers 22 (first rounder) and 63 (late second) for Earl Thomas.

    I would seriously consider that deal. Seattle would have two first rounders (18, 22) and a second in the 2018 draft. If it’s not enough, the Browns could offer 56, 35, or 33 instead of 63, but that would give us a lot of fire power to trade around and get younger and hungrier on defense.

    I want the defense to be desperate for recognition and accolades again. Remember how Sherman used to do whatever it took to get his picks up so he could continue to talk trash to Revis, other WRs, and QBs? Remember how Kam threw his body with reckless abandon at any receiver that dared come across the middle? Remember when Earl was a heat seeking missile that made plays all over the field? We need that again, but we won’t find it with the guys we have now – they’re old, injured, and have been paid too much to give us the 110% they once did. Look at Jacksonville’s defense this season for a desperate crop of young talent that gave everything they had on every play. Did Kam, Sherman, and Earl even give 80% of what they once did this season? I would say not.

    If we can’t trade old personnel to restock the draft pick larder, then I think that trading down is in the cards. This team has a LOT of holes, and will have more by the time the draft comes and Jimmy Graham and Paul Richardson walk out the door.

    • GerryG says:

      “Did Richard Sherman even give 80%”?

      Yes, he gave everything. Dude kept through an Achilles injury until it ruptured. I’d say that’s giving it his all.

      • KingRajesh says:

        Was that 80% of the value of what he used to bring from 2011-2013?

        He should have been benched for a few weeks until he recovered a bit. Maybe it still tears, maybe not. Instead, he plays hurt – done for the season.

        • Patrick Toler says:

          I think Sherman had his best season since 2014 prior to his injury. Earl was at least borderline all pro for me. Maybe not the clear cut best safety in the league like he used to be, but still fantastic. I’m curious what you saw from them to think they are so diminished.
          Kam now, he did look a step slow.

    • RWIII says:

      King: Just curious. Why would Cleveland trade all those draft pics for Earl Thomas. Especially when he said he wants to end his career playing for the Cowboys.

  11. Millhouse-serbia says:

    Good bye bambamkam! Thank you for everything.

    • 12th chuck says:

      have you heard some news?

      • Aaron says:

        He posted a cryptic IG post. He has $12 mil worth of reasons not to hang it up though. Hawks have until five days after the Super Bowl to make a decision on him. Maybe the money doesn’t matter to him and he’s ready to move on.

        • Logan Lynch says:

          Just my personal feelings, but Kam doesn’t seem like the kind of dude who will stick around just to get money from SEA. I see them finding some amicable agreement for him to retire and possibly join the coaching staff at some point.

          • AlaskaHawk says:

            Kam seems to me like the sort of practical man who views football as a business and will take every bit of money he can before his eventual retirement in 2019.

            • Hawk Eye says:

              He held out in 2016 for money, he knows this is a business. His agent put in an injury clause for the exact reason it is being discussed. The owner is a billionaire, the NFL is a billion dollar business that does not care for the players or their long term welfare.
              WHY does Kam walk away from the $12 million?

            • Logan Lynch says:

              Could very well happen. We’ll see.

          • KingRajesh says:

            I mean, he held out for no reason and cost us 2 games.

            He definitely seems like the kind of guy who would follow the Marshawn route and make sure he gets his before he gets got.

            That being said, if he is doing us all a solid and retiring early, then I applaud him.

            • Hawk Eye says:

              he held out for $12 million reasons, don’t be confused about it.
              And I do not hold it against him. The teams make business decisions all the time, have contracts in their favour and all make huge profits. But fans get upset when the players play the same game. It is just business.

            • Bayahawk says:

              “he held out for no reason and cost us 2 games”

              Ridiculous. No player is single-handedly responsible for wins and losses.

              He stood up for himself as a player to try and make as much as he could in a time-limited career. As fans, we do not understand even 10% of what goes in behind closed doors. To assume we understand the front office’s motivations or the player’s is ESPN level commenting.

      • Thy Hawk is Howling says:

        Here’s the Instagram post by Kam. He does look like Kane from Kung Foo, maybe he’s just going to walk the earth?

        https://www.instagram.com/p/Bea01YvDSCW/

  12. drewdawg11 says:

    I keep trying to imagine a scenario where someone amazing falls to 18, but I don’t think we are getting a guy like that. We need edge, but the depth of the draft took a major hit when Clemson’s 4 guys came back to school. Taking a running back makes sense, of course, but will they covet one guy so much that they stay put? Billy Price is going to be a top 20 guy. If he falls to 18, do you take him when you may be able to get Hernandez or Wynn a bit later? I really can’t see us sticking at 18, and that’s too bad. I always hate trading back and missing on someone you like for the privilege of securing an extra 3rd or 4th round pick. Last year the trade back probably hurt us. It worked out for us with Frank and then trading back up for Lockett. I just wish we could fully take advantage of the one time we have a pick inside the top 20.

    • cha says:

      “Last year the trade back probably hurt us.”

      How do you figure?

      Hawks walked away with Hill, Thompson, Tyson and Carson due to trading back.

      • Hawk Eye says:

        and if Malik comes back and plays like they think he can, that is quite a haul.
        You can’t talk about Malik being a mistake because he got hurt on an ATV. That is not high on the list of stupid ways to hurt yourself and people who say they could have predicted it should start predicting other accidents. The list of NFL players that do things that might get them hurt is pretty big, but we don’t know about the ones that did not cause an accident.

        • drewdawg11 says:

          I’m sorry, but that’s exactly why it hurt us. So you counted on a kid with questionable character, (so far an ATV accident, missed the whole season, was arrested), and he mailed in his final season of college to begin with. We walked away with some average players last year. We could have taken Carson at any time. The trade backs haven’t paid off with regularity. Mid-round picks haven’t really been special outside of the first class. “IF” Malik comes back, maybe he will be a completely changed person, but to count on that is taking a chance. I said it was a mistake to have in on the draft board before we picked him. I thought it was a bad move to take him. I have absolutely no idea why anyone is focusing on that portion of what I wrote, but you must really love that Pick. I didn’t. I still don’t. Mike Tyson, Thompson, Hill are decent players… But we could have had them at any point. Trading back didn’t enable us to take players we couldn’t have had anyway. We got a lot of players… I would have loved another player who could actually contribute the way Griffin did.

          • cha says:

            Not liking the McDowell pick and being unhappy the Hawks traded down are two separate issues.

            I can’t say with 100% certainty McDowell was the pick at #26 but if they wanted Takk, Foster, King or Robinson they would have drafted them.

            “We could have taken Carson at any time.”
            “Mike Tyson, Thompson, Hill are decent players… But we could have had them at any point.”

            Uh, no.

            “I would have loved another player who could actually contribute the way Griffin did.”

            Can we give the draft just a little more time than a year before we grade things out?

            • drewdawg11 says:

              7th round picks are generally had at any time… except the few, remaining licks after that player was taken. Sorry, but that’s true. Carson was a great value. But trading down doesn’t mean you get players you couldn’t have had earlier, etc. They traded down and took a huge risk, and that’s based on his junior film alone. He mailed in a season when the team didn’t win. Red flag. So far he’s only proven less reliable.

      • Trevor says:

        Yes but look at the guys they passed on!

        Only Carson has shown anything from the group you mention and McDowell has not played a snap. IMO that move was an unmitigated disaster and an awful pick even if Mcdowell never got hurt.

        • Sea Mode says:

          McDowell had the talent to be considered alongside Myles Garrett as the best player in the draft IMO. Nothing less. His ceiling is seriously that high.

          Honestly, I see it a bit like the final play of that Super Bowl. The call makes sense, the result ended up the worst possible though. The risk was worth it IMO and there’s a slim chance it could still be with McDowell.

          • mac says:

            McDowell had like 7.5 career sacks.. He didn’t produce that much in college, his potential is based off his size, good athletic numbers and potential he had coming into college. I don’t doubt that he can be trained up but it was a reach and costly at that.. It’s funny because I thought Cam Robinson was Germain Ifedi part two.. I was quite wrong! It was unfortunate.

            • drewdawg11 says:

              Ok, he was not on par talent-wise as Garrett. That’s a false narrative. Also, that final super bowl call? I can’t remember any time in my playing or coaching career that I ever thought throwing the ball into the middle of the field from the 1 yard line was a good call. Play action, boot and hit the right end in the back of the end zone. That’s a safe play against a defense who is selling out. Every team has that play. Not sure I’ve seen it stopped too many times at any level. I was on the Cam Robsinson bandwagon last year, although there were a lot of people on this forum who weren’t. I get it. His character issues early on in his career were a red flag, but on field production was not. He was a top 5 player nationally when he was in high school and physically dominant.

  13. Awsi Dooger says:

    Frank Gore actually had two severe injuries in college. Miamians who have followed recruiting forever insist his tape from Coral Gables High was the best high school running back they have ever seen…rare speed combined with rare instincts. Darn shame it didn’t transfer directly to higher level while healthy.

    Chubb should steadily regain form and confidence. Some of the charts are too low on him. I don’t think the league as a block will be that dense. He doesn’t have to come all the way back to be superior to some of these guys who are currently proposed above him.

    • Mark Souza says:

      “Chubb should steadily regain form and confidence.” That’s a lot of confidence. Me, I’m more comfortable with the word “could.”

  14. Millhouse-serbia says:

    Gee Scott just said.that there will be huuuuuuuge, jaw dropping changes on seahawks roster!

    • Hawk Eye says:

      just saw the Kam post on IG and listened to the podcast with Gee Scott.
      Interesting times ahead

    • Rob Staton says:

      Very interesting from Gee.

      Could mean Earl, Sherm, Bennett. Who knows what else is in play?

      Going to be VERY interesting.

      • Millhouse-serbia says:

        None of them are jaw dropping for me. Clark , Baldwin, Wagner and Russell would be but it is really unrealistic. Maybe KJ Wright, Ifedi, Britt…

        • SoCal12 says:

          A reminder that Gee Scott’s a pretty emotional guy and tight with the old LOB, so what is a ‘jaw-dropping’ change for him might not exactly be earth-shattering for everyone else.

      • Patrick Toler says:

        I think most expect, Bennett, Avril, and Kam to be gone. My jaw will hit the floor if we trade Earl or Sherm. I am firmly in the camp that would be a mistake. Not sure what else would be considered jaw dropping, though. Now I’m feeling nervous. Gee isn’t always right, but he is certainly plugged in.

    • Aaron says:

      Kam has 12 mil reasons not to hang it up but maybe he knows it’s time. Guess Earl is also considering a holdout if he doesn’t get an extension. These next few weeks are going to be interesting.

      • D-OZ says:

        I am 100% sure Earl will be traded. He is their best asset for acquiring draft capital, which JS covet’s. I would not be surprised to see Bennett traded also. KJ will not be traded. Shelton Richardson will be matched and used in the Bennett role. I am skeptical on Willson, although I think they bring him back on similar #’s although I also think this TE class is underrated on SDB for what the Hawks will be looking for in a TE. This is also a underrated LB class. Bottom line, Hawks stay @18 and take a player they love. Go Hawks!!!!

    • C-Dog says:

      Gee Scott mentioned on the radio the other week that when he says he “has a bunch, or “vibe” that it = he has heard something, and knows about something.

  15. Hawk Eye says:

    Rob, I share your concern about Ballage. If the guy shows great talent in practice and has had lots of opportunities to do it on the field and has not had great results, that usually means there is something wrong. Was it just coaching? Can he follow instruction? Does he care? Does he have the tenacity?
    Chances are he will be a constant tease. Not a first 3 or 4 round kind of guy. Take a shot in round 5 or 6 where the success rate is questionable

    • SoCal12 says:

      I watched a couple interviews with Ballage. He seems like a high character guy who does care a lot about football. One interesting point that was brought up that might explain his low production was that he had I think three different offensive coordinators over his college career. So he had to work his way into three different systems with a team that seemed overall not very talented. Not saying this excuses or explains everything, and I do think he’ll probably grade as a mid-round flyer, but it is something to consider about him.

      • Hawk Eye says:

        if the excuse/reason are things beyond his control and are not a matter of effort or ability to read where to run, then he can become a great value pick. The trick is to figure out the “why”.

      • Tecmo Bowl says:

        SoCal- Interesting stuff thanks for sharing. Didn’t realize Ballage had 3 different coordinators.

  16. Kelly says:

    just an FYI for you who care…

    Chiefs LB Kevin Pierre-Louis was arrested on four charges Thursday night in Johnson County, Kansas.
    He was cited for misdemeanor possession of marijuana, THC and drug paraphernalia, driving without a valid driver’s license and failure to display a valid license plate or current registration after being pulled over at a traffic stop by Kansas Highway Patrol. His arraignment is scheduled for 1:30 PM CT on Friday. The impending free agent logged 41 tackles over 272 defensive snaps this past season.

    • Sea Mode says:

      Thanks for passing on the sad news. Sorry to see a young man get himself into that situation.

    • KingRajesh says:

      Stay off the weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed

      • Smitty1547 says:

        I drug test and avoid the weed for much less than these million dollar athletes make. It just amazes me every time one gets arrested. I could give up a lot of vices to have the opportunity these guys have.

    • C-Dog says:

      Wow. He always seemed like a really thoughtful, level headed dude whenever he came on 710. Kinda surprised by this one.

      • Hawk Eye says:

        misdemeanour amount of pot.
        Time to stop with stupid laws against pot and enter the 21st century. Treat it like alcohol, and stop with the Salem style witch burning.
        Just another way to get more people into the prison system and feed that monster.
        US has largest prison population by size and % in the world.

  17. Jason says:

    I would love to stay at 18 and get into the 2nd or 3rd round via trading some veterans. I just only see a couple players really getting 1st or 2nd day value in return. I keep hearing Bennett for a 3rd, but I do not see it. Older player coming off injury. You are looking at a 5th or 6th at best. In this draft he is not worth giving up for that.

    What players are realistically worth giving up and will give us high end value?

    • Trevor says:

      I agree Jason vet trades never get as much as you would expect.

      If I had to guess 3 Vet trades mine would be

      #1 Earl to Jags for 1st round pick #28

      #2 Sherm to Raiders for a 3rd Round Pick

      #4 Bennett to Tampa for a 4th Round Pick

      • Volume12 says:

        Trev, you know that isnt how this works.

        The draft is such a small piece of constructing a roster. It’s not reliable. It control’s your cost. Doesn’t solve your lack of talent.

        • Volume12 says:

          You discover talent. But that don’t mean it’ll solve the issue. Most times it’s a square peg (good player) in a round hole (would be better in a different scheme) situation.

          • Mark Souza says:

            Do you remember how Pete and JS rebuilt when they first came here? They combed the streets, the CFL, UDFAs, the waiver wire. The entrance to the practice field during training camp was a turnstile. We brought over 100 players in to give them a look. If it didn’t work out, it was “NEXT!” I’m hoping that’s what he means when he says sweeping changes. Bring in people from every avenue you can find and have a true open competition to make the team.

          • Patrick Toler says:

            Yep. Browner, Baldwin, Kearse, Lynch, Bennett, Avril, and Clemens are just some of the critical players we’ve acquired outside of the draft. The draft is hugely important of course, but finding value in veterans and unseated guys is just as critical.

        • Trevor says:

          I agree Vol but if PC/JS have decided to do an overhaul do you make a 29 yr old FS the highest paid at it position or extend a 30 yr old CB coming off an achillies?

          If not you have to trade them now and get what you can.

  18. Kelly Smith says:

    I’m still a fan of using our 18 on best OL whether thats Price or Wynn. Then using some picks to move up and get a player like Jones. If we use our 1st rounder next year (say 20-32) to trade back into this draft and get Jones and walk away with Jones and Price, and still be able to trade a few comp picks or move back after that, I say that’s a win. Then you are leaving Solari with a building block of Brown(Fant)-Price(or Wynn)-Britt-Pocic-Ifedi.

    I don’t believe this team is that far off from being complete. We are going to save money on Graham, We will be healthier on defense to start Griffin is blossoming, We have Shead possibly coming back, resign Maxwell. Sherm coming back. You got Thomas, possibly Chancellor coming back, resign McDugal and our secondary is set until the following year.

    Our OL has already been addressed. Our front seven could use a couple late rounders and same with our TE.

    Even if Richardson leaves we still have Baldwin, Lockett, Darboh. With McEvoy and Moore being interesting WR4. Plus you add in the pass-run option you would get with Jones, if he is indeed half the catcher Charles was.

    I feel we would walk out this draft feeling pretty good, then leave it to the Free Agency Pool to get some Special Teamers.

    • Trevor says:

      I agree completely. Wynn or Price really sets up our OL to be a dominant unit the next couple of years. Any RB behind a really good OL will look better.

    • Kelly says:

      But we don’t have a second rounder next year, so that would leave us with no first or second round pick in 2018. We cant afford to be spending future picks. I personally, think we have spent enough high draft picks on OL, lets see what Solari can do.Get another one if needed in the 5th.While other teams stock up on premier talent at skill positions, we have spend pick after pick after pick on OL and now are thin at skill position talent

    • GerryG says:

      ^^ agreed Kelly, we have invested heavily in the OL. There are too many other needs.

      I’m against bringing back MacDougal too. It’s not that I think he’s a bad player, but that I don’t want to see them spend the limited cap space on him when we drafted two safeties last year. We keep talking about Pete being the best at developing secondary talent, well here is the next opportunity.

      • Hawk Eye says:

        +1
        can’t draft guys and then not play them and complain we have no cap space. Let the kids play, D needs to get its fire back and some youth will help.

  19. Hawk Eye says:

    Earl just said he wants to finish his career in Seattle but does not see himself going to camp without an extension. Is that going to be part of the changes coming?

    looks like a lot of business decisions will be made this year
    and I am fine with that. I don’t worry about the players or management in this, they will figure it out.

    • Trevor says:

      And it begins! People said that whole fiasco in Dallas was nothing but it is all part of Earls off season plan to force the Hawks into extension or to move him.

      I know once again I am in the minority but I hope the Hawks just bite the bullet and put Earl, Bennett and Sherm on the trade market prior to the draft, get max trade value and move on.

      Re-Sign Mcdougald, Shead and Maxi as veteran insurance and add Eric Reid in Free Agency. All 4 will not cost as much as an extension for Earl. No thanks for small 29 yr old Safety who relies on speed.

      I was all for the Kam extension and that was clearly a mistake. There is a reason 3rd contracts are so rare for defensive players. These guys break down.

      Earl is a Hawks legend and I hoped the entire LOB would retire in Sea but after the move in Dallas I truly hope the Hawks don,t cave and give him an extension.

      • vrtkolman says:

        He’s becoming a major locker room problem IMO. I agree with you, it’s time to move on from the old guard even if it results in a rough season.

        • TTownHawk says:

          How is he becoming a locker room problem? He is a great competitor and by all accounts, his teammates love him. I think what you are trying to say is he is becoming a problem with fans because they feel personally offended that he would hint at wanting to play for another team or holdout. I think fans tend to forgot the business aspect of the league applies to players too. Careers are short, you’ve got to make the most out of the time you have. Earl is a weird dude so I’m not surprised at all that he has odd ways at expressing his desires for another payday. But you can’t blame him for wanting an extension. Just like you wouldn’t blame the team for moving on. At the end of the day, as long as he is busting his tail on the field for this team and helping the Hawks win games, I am happy to have him in Seattle.

          • Patrick Toler says:

            Yeah, hard to see how Earl could be definitively labeled a locker room problem. His teammates have always known he’s an epically weird dude, and have always seemed to love him.

        • Ishmael says:

          Based on what? He’s a seriously weird dude, even by NFL standards, but he’s always been like this and his teammates love him.

      • Kelly says:

        I would hate to see Earl go, but if he forces their hand to be traded and wants out so bad, ignore his wishes to go to Dallas and I say trade him to Cleveland!

      • GerryG says:

        We have decent depth at CB and a rising star (imo) in Griffin. Maybe it is time to get whatever value we can from Earl, and consider moving Sherm to Safety. He doesn’t have Earl’s speed but is a great tackler with great instincts and amazing ball skills. He also works his tail off teaching the younger players.

        • Hawk Eye says:

          that makes sense.
          Even if “The Purge” is coming, you are not getting rid of everyone.
          Need to keep some vets to show the kids how to play and Sherm studies the game better than most.

        • Gohawks5151 says:

          The issue is Sherm is closer to a replacement for Kam more than Earl. Kind of like a big nickel dude. They already drafted Hill to be SS too. Thats the biggest part of losing Earl. Of all the positions of Pete’s D, he is the most specialized and hardest to replace.

          • Hawk Eye says:

            or they can change like basketball has and aim to get players on the field that may not be traditional, but more flexible position wise and still win.
            not sure how that is done in football

            or, Pete can change his scheme to compensate

          • GerryG says:

            As Rob mentioned maybe they play more Tampa 2, Sherman would be a great FS in that system

    • Gohawks5151 says:

      People calling Earl being “disloyal” is the most ridiculous thing ever. As its been said, its just business. Teams are “disloyal” to players all the time and no one calls for the owners head. Such a selfish relationship we have with players some times. You don’t see anything like it anywhere else. No musician changes record labels and incurs boos from fans. Actors too. He still has skill. He still plays hard. he will be expensive. If you want to keep him or send him off do it based on those things not after game locker room talk.

      • Trevor says:

        Walking into another teams locker room in the midst of a playoff chase and telling them you want to play with them is the definition of a disloyal team mate in any sport.

        • Hawk Eye says:

          heard a few ex players talk about that and said it happens more than you think. Usually without a camera though.
          It does not bother me. He plays hard all the time, is not giving away team secrets, and it is a business. He grew up a Cowboys fan (excuse me while I throw up…) and it adds leverage to new contract talks. Also says he is not giving the Hawks a discount on a new contract.
          Never make an emotional business decision. That is how the teams get the players to take less all the time. Except with Revis, that man could beat the front office.

        • Ishmael says:

          This sort of thing happens all the time. It’s a nothing story. Fans have a completely different conception of how the league works than the players do. Sorry, that sounded more condescending than I meant it to – hopefully you see what I’m trying to get at.

  20. Trevor says:

    Either at 18 or with a slight trade back I feel Like Wynn almost has to be the first pick the Hawks make in this draft. He can come in and start day #1 next to Duane Brown giving the Hawks a dominant Left side of the OL.

    What I like most about WYnn is his incredible consistency. Snap in and Snap out, Game in and Game out he is just incredibly focussed, solid and technically sound.

    The Achilles heal of the Hawks OL in recent years has been inconsistency, mental lapses and communication break downs. You just never see these type of mistakes from Wynn.

    As an added bonus he can play OT in case of injury and would likely be the second best OT on the team day #1. I know Quenton Nelson is bigger and as little nastier but from a consistency and flexibility standpoint Wynn could be every bit as valuable for a team like Seattle.

    I remember really liking Bitonio after Rob highlighted him and was really disappointed when JS passed on him. Really hope the same thing does not happen again because I really think with the addition of Solari that is OL is a dominant LG away from being really good. That will make whomever we have at RB look a lot better.

    • Hawk Eye says:

      as Rob pointed out, they already have so much draft capital invested in the O line and I don’t expect a high pick used there. I think they will let Solari fix the line using mostly existing guys. And Walter Jones and Ray Roberts both really like the hire, and those guys know almost as much as we do about O Lines!

      • DC says:

        Is it a question of spent draft capital or a question of talent & results?

        The OL has been the weakest position group on the team by a country mile going into the last 3 seasons without a doubt. I don’t remember the last time I would have considered them a strength.

        • peter says:

          it’s not a strength but now the team is becoming deficient in other facets,at the expense of a massive amount of capital on the oline. no succession plan to lb’s, a worrisome safety tandem moving forward, zero effective run game, average wr’s….at some point you need to invest in other parts.

  21. Sea Mode says:

    I know this is crazy, but what if…

    1. Earl kind of does want to leave/get top money, and/or FO feels it’s just time to move on at highest value, and the Cowboys offer R1P19 to reunite him with Kris Richard.

    2. The first 3 picks are QB, QB, Bradley Chubb.

    3. Cleveland has holes all over their roster and is looking to stockpile more picks. They accept R1P18 (900 pts) and R1P19 (875 pts) in exchange for R1P4 (1800 pts).

    4. Seattle drafts Saquon Barkley, a potentially franchise-altering player at their biggest position of need.

    I know it’s unlikely to happen for so many reasons, but before I get shot down:

    – We would save $8.5m moving on from ETIII. We might have to anyway in 2019 or risk handing him a rich 3rd contract going into his age 30 season.

    – We have either McDougald to play FS or we can use that money to sign someone else for FS and keep McDougald at SS.

    – We might not pick again until R4, but we are already contemplating making do with what we already have on OL with new coaching.

    – We would like a DE too, but the value this year seems to be in the day 3 projects anyway for that. Not a great crop of edge rushers on days 1-2.

    – Remember what Russell Wilson was capable of with a star RB in his first years as a pro. Think what he could be right now with a likely star RB. (our current OL is probably equally or more talented than back then too IMO)

    In the end, which option do you think would make the biggest impact thinking not only this year but the next couple years as well moving forward, supposing for this exercise that these players are still on the board?

    1. Saquon Barkley (R1P4)

    2. Ronald Jones II (R1P18) + Billy Price (R1P19)

    3. Ronald Jones II (R1P18) + trade down: Isaiah Wynn (R2P35) + Nick Chubb/RB2 (R2P63)

    4. 2 more years of ETIII + Ronald Jones II (R1P18)

    5. 2 more years of ETIII + trade down: Isaiah Wynn (R2P35) + Nick Chubb/RB2 (R2P63)

    Ok, go ahead and shoot me now. This is just a daydreaming exercise after all anyway!

    • Trevor says:

      Option # 2

      Or even better Option #3 but instead of Nick Chubb at #63 Arden Tate to give you that big WR read Zone threat.

    • Volume12 says:

      Man, I was over on the last post. Trying to reply to you. LOL

      Seahawks were one of the teams that met with LSU WR DJ Chark & RB Darrell Williams.

      You mentioned he body catches. Could not care how a guy hauls it in. Just don’t put in on the ground. And most important, if a guy can’t get open/free, than his hand catching technique is a moot point.

      And then the phrase ‘long strider.’ Yeah, that’s a good thing. Means you eat up/cover yards quickly.

      Greatest WR to ever play the game and looks at the big, long, strides.

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r5Cw-RmfmN4

      • Mark Souza says:

        Guys who body catch don’t convert as many opportunities. The big reason is, in the NFL, the DB’s are close to you, either next to you or right behind, and they’re reaching trying to knock the ball away. If you aren’t extending to get your hands on the ball before they do, you aren’t going to catch it.

        • Sea Mode says:

          Mark, I agree a pure hands catcher is of course better, if your guy is getting that much separation it doesn’t really matter.

          Think of Lockett. Catches with his body 95% of the time. Because he is gets open and can afford to.

          What I’ve seen in Chark so far is that the short/intermediate routes he does catch with his hands. That’s important so as not to negate RAC. But when the long ball is in the air, the most important thing is to adjust and make the catch. Who cares about a few more yards if you are gaining 35-45 with the catch. And Chark does that wonderfully.

          Every guy will have his deficiencies, otherwise he would be a R1-R2 prospect.

          • Mark Souza says:

            Every receiver will occasionally get Steve Largent-like separation. But by and large, you make your nut on contested catches, fighting for the ball.

          • Kenny Sloth says:

            Body catching is a really important red flag if it’s a jump ball specialist

      • Sea Mode says:

        Don’t worry, I usually go back over at least the end of the last thread anyway to look for any responses. 🙂

        Super stoked to hear that the Hawks showed interest in Chark. Would be a wonderful replacement for PRich IMO and complements our current WR room better than the other guy I like most, Marcell Ateman.

        The player I really want to take a flyer on is Antonio Callaway. Huuuge risk, but huge WR1 talent. I trust Baldwin and Lockett’s leadership in the WR room. Wouldn’t make him our first pick like McDowell, but would have no problem whatsoever using the R4 pick to take a chance on him.

      • Tecmo Bowl says:

        “You mentioned he body catches. Could not care how a guy hauls it in. Just don’t put in on the ground. And most important, if a guy can’t get open/free, than his hand catching technique is a moot point.”

        100% agree. Some times it makes more sense to body catch.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Saquon is the real deal. Superstar potential.

      If there’s any chance what so ever… take it.

      • Sea Mode says:

        +1

        Door number 1 would be my choice as well. And I feel that we have a chance, albeit a tiny one. With the way this front office has said they will continue to be aggressive, I don’t doubt they will at least explore every possible route to see if they could make it happen.

        An 2nd scenario if the Dallas trade seems unlikely because of their cap space, would be to offer #18 and Earl to the Browns straight up. They can pay him what he wants and more, and get some kind of veteran leadership for all their young guys the next 4-5 years.

    • cha says:

      The thing that makes this palatable to me is that Saquon would have an immediate impact. No long development period like at QB or other positions. He’d immediately stabilize the offense and give the defense its edge back by taking more time off the clock.

      If JS is able to pull this off I’d endorse it.

      To extend the fantasy though, I’d leverage #5 and #6 Buffalo & NYJ against each other for the rights to take the 3rd QB at #4. The Niners got a 3, 4, and future 3 out of Chicago for dropping one spot in the Trubisky deal.

    • Volume12 says:

      Ronald Jones is the best one cut runner in this draft.

      Something that hasn’t been discussed or if it has I missed it, but what if Pete feels like Chris Carson is their thunder and he wants some lightning?

      • Sea Mode says:

        Could be so. I think I recall some mentioning this idea before. Thing is though, Pete might want to secure the thunder first. Hope Carson doesn’t end up like Rawls post-injury. (doubt he does though cause the recovery was much quicker)

      • C-Dog says:

        I’ve been beating that drum for a while until I started convincing myself that the guy they are more likely to go after is Chubb.

      • Kenny Sloth says:

        I know the NFL is going towards a RBBC approach in an obvious way, but I always prefer the franchise back. I know it’s wishful but I want a Ladanian Tomlinson on early downs and people trying to fight for the touches behind him. Chris Carson is a decent pro, maybe even great, but we can probably assume he’s not gonna be LT.

        Franchise back potential in this draft;
        Barkley
        RoJo
        Guice
        Chubb
        Kerryon

        Lets wait for the combine
        Bo Scarborough
        Royce Freeman
        Sony Michel, I guess.
        Kalen Ballage
        Rashaad Penny

        These guys all have obvious pro comparisons as clear #1s on their depth chart for me.

        • peter says:

          I’m a fan of the franchise back as well.

          The five guys you listed in your second column I’d be pretty stoked if Seattle wanted to go that way. I’ve been banging the drum pretty hard for a great running back but if Seattle wanted to run a real competition for the best two I’m in.

          last year there was no real competition. It just was a mess. And due to injury they never played “the best players,” they were forced to play whatever players.

  22. drewdawg11 says:

    I was worried about this. Earl wants his deal, Bennett already sounded like he knew he was gone, and frankly, maybe its just time to blow it up a little bit. I’ve advocated trading Earl because I felt like this whole break up was inevitable and you might as well get what you can now. I am so grateful to have watched this group play together for as long as they have. If this is the end, thank you Earl, Sherman, Kam, MB for giving us all a great defense to be proud of, and of course, the Lombardi Trophy in 2013. The thing to do now is to build it back up again for another run.

  23. Barry T says:

    Arizona State’s Kallen Ballage, all the talent in the world not surprised to see him blowing it up. But like you said does he have the mind to be a gamer? In round 5 or 6 I’d love to find out.

    • Kenny Sloth says:

      +1 the hype train on this guy was insane at one point. I can’t wait to see what kind of athlete he is.

    • peter says:

      would love to know what happened to him last year. Rob two years ago had him on a “players to watch list,” and he looked super explosive taking direct snaps, running routes, but never lived up to the promise.

  24. Hawk Eye says:

    as a reminder to all when players complain about their contract, and we say, “get rid of them”, the great Walter Jones was always holding out. And asking for top dollar. And he is a Seahawk all time great.
    Let’s not confuse their contracts with how they play and their effort, as well as their impact on the field.
    The trick is to have the salary cap balanced and the right mix of young and old, but mostly have the right amount of talent. And right now, the Seahawks need more talent.

    • Aaron says:

      Earl certainly has loads of talent, he’s a pro bowler, an all-pro, a future hall of famer. However, the question I have is does he want to end his career a Hawk if his guys in the back end retire or leave? That’s the crux of this entire situation imo.

    • cha says:

      +1 Hawk Eye

      I struggle with fan over-interpretation. Earl says he wants to get paid. He’s just vocalizing what all players feel.

      • Sea Mode says:

        Yup. This paragraph from the ESPN article said a lot to me:

        He [Earl] said last offseason that Eric Berry’s six-year, $78 million deal that included $40 million guaranteed was among the factors that helped him decide he wanted to continue playing after contemplating retirement once he broke his leg in December 2016.

        http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22225247/earl-thomas-seattle-seahawks-willing-hold-get-new-contract

        • Kelly says:

          But if his only motivation to come back after getting injured is money, then after he signs his deal will he still be motivated? Most players say what drove them to come back was determination to prove themselves, not money.But the again, that may be BS..lol

          I just hope that money isn’t his only motivation or an extension with the Seahawks will not end well, just my opinion.

          • Hawk Eye says:

            Thomas is a different dude, even by NFL standards. He is a little weird, does not talk much, but seems to have no filter when he does. Not a leader like Kam or Sherm, but just as intense.
            He wants the money, but once he steps on the field he wants to be the best. To him the money is recognition that he is the best. That is a common theme with all athletes.
            They all want the money, and every team has guys that are just there for the money. But Sherm, Kam, Earl, Bobby, KJ, MB, Cliff, they all love to play. That was part of what made them special.

            • peter says:

              I absolutely think earl should make a mountain of money. he totally earned it. bluntly I don’t think it should be with seattle at beginning of his end.

              sorry but back to back seasons with injuries, age, and coming at the heels of kam’s contract problem. I’d pass.

          • cha says:

            “then after he signs his deal will he still be motivated?”

            C’mon man. The guy signed a $40m deal and didn’t slow down a lick.

      • GerryG says:

        I don’t blame him one bit for not wanting to play out his deal and then sign a new one.

        • peter says:

          I’m of two minds one I think pmayers,should get what they can get. I also think it’s lametown to hear athletes literally whine about “it’s a business man. there’s no love for the players…..” dudes you signed the cba. get a stronger union which oddly includes you stepping up and taking a hit in your wallet and strike if you want better contracts. you can’t have it both ways this “whoa is us,” crap but not be willing to do what baseball did……

          • Ishmael says:

            The NFL players union is a disgrace. They absolutely need better representation, but they also should be look after themselves. Teams treat them like absolute garbage. They’re grist to the mill. You’d be insane not to get every penny you could given the consequences for playing.

            • peter says:

              oh I agree they need to get paid as much as they can for making the nfl so much money.

              • Hawk Eye says:

                the best way to look at the negotiations between the Union and Owners is that the owners hold the same advantage at the negotiating table that the players would have in a football game. And it shows in the results. Hockey used to be way worse under Allan Eagleson, but that was because he was a crook. They need to be like MLB, and hire someone the owners are afraid of and get the players guaranteed contracts like every other sport. Then we would also stop seeing teams offer these 5 year deals that are really 1 or 2 year deals and players would not be cut just for their salary. A team like the Hawks may have an advantage with better management (as long we get rid of Belichick in NE) than most teams.

    • TTownHawk says:

      Well said. Teams hold all the cards. I never blame players for wanting to get top dollar. NFL careers are short, guys gotta maximize.

  25. vrtkolman says:

    Sounds like there is a real chance both Norwell and Star walk from Carolina and hit free agency. Either one of those would be a massive addition to our trenches.

    • Hawk Eye says:

      not a chance. No cap room and teams like Browns and 49`rs have $100 Mil +
      have to keep the expectations realistic, no way the Hawks sign a premium free agent
      they are going to try and get younger and cheaper

  26. Haystacker509 says:

    I know a lot of people are on the “don’t give Earl a third contract” but another safety that played 12+ years, and was very skin size and play wise to earl is Ed Reed. Compared to reed I’d give earl another extension in a heartbeat!

    • Hawk Eye says:

      this is the crux of the problem.
      Keep him this year with no extension and maybe he leaves and plays 4 or 5 more years at a Pro Bowl level.
      Or resign him and he gets hurt and declines fast. Or resign him and he plays great for 4 more years but eats up too much cap space.
      could be wrong either way

      • cha says:

        “plays great for 4 more years but eats up too much cap space.”

        Contradictory statements. If he plays great he doesn’t eat up too much cap space.

        • Hawk Eye says:

          umm, yeah, you have a point.
          so lets just stick with the other 2 points

        • Patrick Toler says:

          Yep, if he’s great, he worth a monster contract. I’ll bet on the 29 year old future first ballot hall of famer to have a few more great seasons.

          • peter says:

            I imagine every season Earl plays he’s going to be great.

            I also Imagine that there’s a chance that every season Earl plays he starts to sustain injuries that cause him to miss 2 or more games.

            I’m looking at two of the best ever to future cast. Ed Reed. And Troy Polamalu.

            Both of which started to break down to a degree after their 8th season. And Earl is at that stage. And both of which still played very, very well after that 8th season even on years when they suffered injuries.

            The problem as I see it is that Earl is worth for Seattle something that will not happen like take his current contract tear it up, add one year and make the whole thing $27 mil fully guaranteed.

            Then he can be the highest paid safety and get that super-elusive 4th contract, And it allows Seattle a practical out when/if Earl is 30+ and if he needs to be paid yet again, great, but if not then he and the team will both know.

            What he probably wants, however, Seattle should avoid like the plague. a tear up of his contract and a 4 year extension with 30 or more guaranteed plus any kind of Chancellor-esque injury locks.

    • C-Dog says:

      I’m not on the Don’t Give Earl a Third Contract bandwagon, but I am on the I Don’t Think Seattle Will Give Earl a Third Contract bandwagon.

      Just my hunch, but I think what the player wants and what the team wants is probably two separate things, and I’m bracing for a trade.

      • Hawk Eye says:

        i am starting to think the same thing.
        We will know what the team will look like with who is gone by the end of the draft.
        So how long do we have to wait????
        Watching Tom Brady lose will make the wait a whole lot sweeter, so pulling for the Eagles. Birds gotta stick together.

        • C-Dog says:

          I’m bracing for sweeping change. Just a deduction, and purely my own speculation, but I kinda sense that maybe part of the reason Kris Richard was pushed out is that the team got the vibe he wouldn’t sit well with parting ways with the players he coached and brought along since they were pups. I sense the new look could be more of an emphasis on the front seven where the team has spent high round picks on for the last three years.

          I’m kind of expecting Kam, Sherm, Earl, Bennett and Avril all exiting.

          Kept is Bobby and KJ. I think they build around Clark, Reed, Griffin, Naz, Jordan, Coleman, and hope they can get something out of McDowell, Delano Hill, and Tedric Thompson. I’m expecting McDougald back, but not Sheldon. I kinda think Maxwell sticks around.

          The fact the team has shown interest in Da’shawn Hand indicates to me that they are still likely looking at spending another high pick on DL. Hand obviously projects to be a Bennett replacement.

          I think this could be a very, very different looking defense next year. I don’t believe Norton is just a yes man for Carroll. I think Carroll’s new vision is a focus on the front end.

          • Old but Slow says:

            That could happen. The Bennett/Hand point is interesting. I could see them keeping one of the old backfield to be a mentor, but tone down their role. I hate to break up that old gang of mine…I think there is a lyric something like that.

            • C-Dog says:

              I think Sherman could definitely be that candidate. Also, I could see Kam coming back in a coaching capacity down the road, that could be a nice balance with Norton.

              Right now, I’m just thinking about the Silver article and what Gee said and thinking about the smoke and fire.

          • peter says:

            I’m leery of Hand. A high draft pick, probably, for a guy that you are projecting that he can become a Bennett because right now he has very poor production. As did Bennett in College.

            But of course Bennet has become Bennett. It just seems like a tough pick to make for a non impact DL player who may take the normal course of 3 years or so to really break out if ever.

            • C-Dog says:

              I can understand the leeriness over Hand. I think the team interest does signal what the team is looking for, a likely replacement for Michael Bennett, and maybe they aren’t entirely sold on the durability of Dion Jordan, or the future of Malik McDowell.

              If they are interested in Hand, they surely would also be interested in Taven Bryan, Rasheem Green, and Breeland Speaks to name a few. Maybe even Sam Hubbard and Duke Ejiofor.

    • lil'stink says:

      Eric Weddle is another example. Just turned 33 and has had back-to-back pro bowl seasons since he signed with Baltimore.

  27. Haystacker509 says:

    *akin not skin lol

  28. DC says:

    The real question in my mind is how do we win our next Super Bowl in the least amount of time?

    If we need to contract before we expand again then I’m all for it and I will adjust my expectations accordingly. Part of my personal problem the last 4 years is that I have held a Championship or bust mentality toward the team. Now? This team needs to start from the ground up re-establishing it’s identity. Generally an offense takes longer to gel than a defense. We might not be contenders in 2018 or 2019 but if we are going to take the pain then taking it now is fine by me. Maybe by 2020 the books are clean and the cupboards are stocked again with young talent.

    • AlaskaHawk says:

      There was an assumption by a lot of fans that with the great job that Pete Carroll and John Schneider did in building the team, and the “Win Forever” mantra, that they could keep this team at a high level.

      Unfortunately between poor draft picks, poor coaching/game management, injuries and players not performing to their potential, we have all learned how hard it is to stay on top. Yes it is time to rebuild.

    • GerryG says:

      From what I have read the cap could be in really good shape by 2019 if they make the tough decisions this year. That’s the argument for moving on from guys like Bennett now despite the minimal cap savings it provides for 18.

      • Hawk Eye says:

        that is incorrect.
        He has a $7.237 mil cap hit for 2018, # 11 on the team.
        His salary is $1.5 million, dead money would be $5.212 Mil
        If he plays this year and is cut after the season, his dead money is $3..475 for next year.
        So the true cost for him to play this year is $1.5 Mil

        it is wrong to look at the 2019 cap in a vacuum, since you can roll over left over cap space. That is why SF has so much cap space, they have $50 mil from 2017.
        Cap space has to be looked at over a 3 year period (more or less). Think of the 2018, 19 and 20 years as one cap with $550 mil or so in space and adjust accordingly.
        The $3.4 mil you won’t have next year, you have this year, so it is a zero sum game.

        • Hawk Eye says:

          if they move on from Bennett, it is not for cap savings.
          Dion Jordan will have a greater cost than Bennett for 2018 when you remove dead money. Which is how you have to look at it. Dead money is paid no matter what.
          Teams have “capolagists” for this very reason. And I am sure they have some sort of XL program adjusted for it where they can plug and play with the numbers.

          so this is why I find the whole Bennett will be cut for cap savings do not make sense.
          If they can trade him, and they see the benefit, i can see that. But I do not see how it makes the team better in 2018. If they trade him, it means they are looking at 2019 and 2020 to really compete.

          If they cut him, it is a personality, culture issue. And I don’t see that with Pete.

        • Hawk Eye says:

          I may have missed something, he has a roster bonus of $4 Mil,, so probably cost for 2018 is $5.5 mil
          cutting him after the year leaves $3.4 Mil cap hit next year, which is still a sunk cost no matter what.
          so I would guess this is where there is trade value if they want to save overall cap space, get younger, etc

  29. Hawk Eye says:

    https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/01/26/cliff-avril-seahawks-charity-work-building-schools-haiti?utm_campaign=sinow&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_twitter_si

    for those who complain about overpaid, spoiled athletes, some of them give back and use their influence for good. My wife is Haitian and I have been there a few times. If you know their history, their struggles are inflicted more by the US and France than themselves, but they never give up. You have to go there to really appreciate what we have up here.
    Go Cliff!!

    for those who complain about MB, he also does a lot of charity work and has the courage to stand up and say what he believes knowing that he will be called a lot of bad things for it. What outsiders call his distracting protests are actually a sign of his true leadership and courage.

    these guys will be missed, hope the new Hawks can live up to their standards both on and off the field.

  30. C-Dog says:

    Some interesting tidbits from Charlie Campbell today writing about what he is hearing at the Senior Bowl. Kinda feeds into Team Trade Back.

    He’s been hearing that teams are likely going to want to trade up for QBs, based on the success the Texans and Chiefs had last year with there trade ups. He’s heard the feeling is 3 QBs go top 10, and QB needy teams with high R2 picks are going to want to trade back into R1 ahead of Pittsburgh, NO, and Buffalo.

    Separately, word is Atlanta wants to land a DT.

    Seattle could deal with Atlanta so they get ahead of Dallas if a DT slides, and then deal back further with one of these QB needy teams.

    • lil'stink says:

      Speaking of DT’s… What if Tim Settle falls to 18? Rob has written about him extensively. I’ve just got around to watching his highlights – I think he’d be hard to pass on even if there is a good trade back scenario. He looks like he could be a game wrecker.

      • peter says:

        He’s a game wrecker and he’s young. Just 21.

      • GerryG says:

        You have to take Settle if he falls!

        This is why I am starting to lean towards acquiring picks by trading a guy like Earl. I’ve commented several times I’m not sure what he can get in return, but John Clayton said a Rd1 is possible so who knows. By acquiring a second Rd1 this would allow Seattle to pounce if a blue chipper falls because of teams chasing QBs.

        If their guy doesn’t fall they can move back with one or both picks and potentially get 3-4 guys between the end of Rd1 and Rd2. Picking in that range would in theory net one of the RBs, Wynn, and a LB or front 7 guy(s).

      • C-Dog says:

        Yeah, if there is a Blue Chip DT who can be a generational talent, I say you take him, and figure out RB, OG, etc later.

  31. Hawk Eye says:

    Anyone know of any good CFL free agents that Hawks may target?

    I watch one game a year, lost touch over the years. The money and quality difference was close 40 years ago, now NFL qbs make more than 3 or 4 teams combined. But those guys play for love of the game and a chance at the NFL. Most are too small, or some just like the more laid back approach, or the strip clubs in Montreal, but there are always a few guys that make the jump every year.

  32. Sea Mode says:

    Here’s Corbett with a couple strong reps vs. Poona Ford:

    https://twitter.com/PFF_Ben/status/956896049523773440

  33. Sea Mode says:

    Isaiah Wynn Senior Bowl montage for your viewing pleasure…

    https://twitter.com/BillyM_91/status/956648636158488576

  34. CharlieTheUnicorn says:

    Earl Thomas is the man.

    Simply. He said exactly what every NFL player is thinking. “You show me respect by paying me the money.” I respect that he said that, because it is the truth. No one discriminates against the green.

    As for him being odd or weird. That is what makes him great. I would take 10 guys who are tenacious and OCD about football… over the meatheads who show up, but don’t put 100% into the game every day. Wasting an opportunity to pursue a career or “dream job” of millions of boys and men.

    In closing, ET…. KEEP BEING YOU. That is the guy I respect and want on the Seahawks.

    • Sea Mode says:

      Whatever happens, I will always love our little alien from Area 29! LOL, during NFC practice:

      Brees to Wilson: Earl doesn’t know the rule, like, this is our period. Like, we need to complete balls.

      Wilson to Brees: It’s his period in his mind.

      Goff to Wilson: He must be fun to practice against…

      Wilson to Goff: Yeah, he’s great. Practice is fun.

      Goff: Yeah, him and Rich.

      http://www.seahawks.com/video/2018/01/25/2018-pro-bowl-micd-russell-wilson

    • peter says:

      he has been shown the money though. He’s the fifth highest paid safety and only safety in the top 16 who’s contract is set to be up in 2019, meaning regardless of Seattle or otherwise, he will be paid the highest until yet again someone else has a contract that comes up.

      Again I think Earl deserves a great third contract. But talking about holding out when you’re on an actually great contract is silly.

      I think the players need to work towards 3year contracts that are fully guaranteed. The NFL is never going to go higher than that due to injury. The players should also work towards ending the franchise tags and just enter the free market faster.

  35. Sea Mode says:

    Love Tony Pauline…

    A lot of people are up in arms because Griffin did not receive a combine invitation, including many who have no idea what they are talking about. The fact is that there are still many more combine invitations left to be sent out, so people should just calm down.

  36. Sea Mode says:

    Some comments from Baldwin on Schotty give an interesting perspective on how the OC change might have been presented to the team:

    “He’s very genuine, very honest, very forthcoming, very blunt, and I like that,” Baldwin said. “I know he’s going to do a great job of bringing us back to where we want to be in terms of discipline and accountability, so I’m really excited to get to work.”

    Added Baldwin: “I talked to Drew (Brees) extensively about him, I’ve talked to some other guys who he has been with. They’ve all had nothing but great things to say about him. Drew is extremely close to him, so I knew I could get some detailed information about him from Drew. Drew loves him and one of the things Drew said is that he’s going to hold everybody accountable and when you go into the huddle everybody is going to know what to do. I’m really looking forward to that part being really easy for us.”

    http://www.seahawks.com/news/2018/01/26/seahawks-%E2%80%98really-excited%E2%80%99-about-new-offensive-coordinator-brian-schottenheimer

  37. RealRhino2 says:

    Two more hot takes that I take out of the Senior Bowl. 1. Josh Allen is not going #1 to anybody.
    2. The only thing that may keep Marcus Davenport in the 1st round is the lack of edge rushers in the class. Not a 1st-rounder

    • Icb12 says:

      1. He shouldn’t. But he might still. That Twitter vid of him over throwing the net from 10 feet away is painful
      2. Upside upside upside. Davenport provides boundless potential at a ever increasingly valuable position in the NFL.

      QBs and guys that sack QBs are it. Both will be overdrafted based on potential. In today’s NFL yo you can’t afford NOT to take a chance on these guys. If they live up to it it could change a franchise. If they don’t you used a draft pick or two. You get more next year.

  38. Kenny Sloth says:

    If the seahawks don’t draft or udfa McKenzie Milton, I’ll be very surprised. He reminds me so much of Russ and actually has some qualities to work with for the next level. Good mover, tough playerr, obvious leader and winner.

    • Sea Mode says:

      Will definitely be one to watch for. Just took a look since I hadn’t ever seen him.

      This look off and throw at 1:30 is the real deal:
      https://youtu.be/MQl-CPG2dkI?t=90

      Any QBs you like for the Hawks this year? (no, you can’t have Lamar Jackson 😉 )

    • Trevor says:

      I agree Kenny he looked so dynamic this year as a True Sophmore. Has to fill out but has great athleticsm, instincts etc. He reminds me of a mix between Russel Wilson and Baker Mayfeild.

      I would be pumped if the Hawks could get him. Will be interesting to see how he reacts to the loss of Scott Frost.