I liked the conclusion at the end – ‘this what people used to do – discuss things instead of screaming on twitter’ Well said.
BoiseSeahawk
Would you trade russ to the Jaguars for picks 1, 25 and 33?
Trevor Lawrence
Azeez Ojulari
Jalen Mayfield
Roy Batty
I doubt Russ would sign off on being traded to a small market team going through a rebuild.
Sexy trades are sexy to fans. Players…not so much.
BoiseSeahawk
That wasn’t even close to my question.
Simo
I would take that deal for Russ. The chance to draft big Trev is worth it alone, the other two guys are just gravy!
Mick
I would not trade Russ for a rookie QB, at least definitely not this year.
Sea Mode
Of course I would. Good QBs on rookie deals are a recipe for the Super Bowl for anyone without a QB named Tom Brady.
But why in the world would the Jags want to do that?
Mick
How many of the 2020 rookie QBs made it to the playoffs (which is still far from Super Bowl)? And I wouldn’t trade Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers or Watson for Lawrence, and Wilson is up there with these names.
dcd2
How many rookie QB’s played on a team that won 12 games the year before?
In his first year as a starter Mahomes threw for 5000 yards and 50 TD’s, won the MVP and cost about $3M.
His second year he won the Super Bowl.
I’d take it in a second. I have no doubt GB and Houston would take that deal as well. Jags wouldn’t though and RW wouldn’t agree to it either.
uhg! Hit enter too soon. That first year learning behind Smith was invaluable to Mahomes and got him into his groove so that he could acclimate to the NFL and level of play.
dcd2
That’s what I meant. First year as a starter mvp and super bowl next.
Herbert and burrows looked pretty good as rookie qbs on bad teams too though.
Yeah, both those guys had amazing rookie years. Hope Burrows will be able to fully rebound and Herbert was just lights out his rookie season! Lots of potential for amazing careers between the two of them.
Trevor
The Jags would never do it but I think the Hawks would in a blink.
Scot04
If you get their #1 for 2022 as well then yes.
Jordan
If Russ became really belligerent and forced the issue, sure.
Otherwise, no.
icb12
Jags call up and offer that, I say yes very fast before Urban walks into Baalkes office and rips the phone line out of the wall.
JLemere
So watching the podcast, I was thinking of potential moves that the FO can do and something that I don’t think has been discussed yet is maybe they should move off Lockett this year. Minnesota was able to pull it off by trading away Diggs and then were able to draft his replacement with Jefferson. San Francisco was also able to do that as well by trading away Deforest Buckner and then drafting his replacement with Kinklaw. Now will SEA get a 1 for Lockett? Very unlikely. But if the receiver class is going to be strong again in the draft, they should be able to get a starting caliber receiver in the 2nd round and save ~14 million in cap space, which then could be used on the O-line, D-line and/or TE. I personally don’t think RW would approve of the move, but if PC is hell-bent of having full control, this is a move that could transpire this offseason.
Jazz
They already have limited draft stock, and would likely use that 2nd rounder on an Offensive Lineman. If they get a 2nd for Lockett, yes. I agree with Rob, the good teams recycle their lineups, and with ageing players, you need to be able to let a few of those guys go and see what the new guys have to offer.
LB….. do you trade Wagner and sign KJ Wright? I think you lose one of them for sure.
I wouldn’t be opposed to going with Wright and Brooks.
Chase
Rob, Have you looked at Chuba Hubbard? Listed at 6′ 207 lbs. Little lighter than they prefer but man he looks dynamic. He has been available in round 4 in a couple mocks I have done.
I’m not a big fan of Hubbard’s. Had a lot of runs where he just has to run in a straight line through a huge gap. Light frame, more quick than explosive. I’ve always thought he was a late round pick and more of a college player than pro.
Chase
If they miss out on the top 3 backs, harris, etienne, williams, do you think theyll draft a back or look towards free agency? I hop they don’t give penny the backfield this next season.
That’s a very difficult question to answer this year
Trevor
He is a Canadian kid and I have followed his career really closely. I he was a really good college RB but as much as I hate to say it I just don’t see him as a Hawks RB.
Fantastic podcast between you guys. Thought you both handled it really well and made good points/counter points. Hope you get to do this again sometime soon.
Really enjoyable discussion, Rob. I am wondering if Russ would be willing to restructure his contract so we can get him the players he wants. I don’t quite agree with Corbin’s argument that Russ will be upset to see Bobby and Adams go, he will understand that new players must be paid with some money, and even drafted, which doesn’t work with 4 picks. But it is scary to play without KJ and Bobby, and to rely on a second year player like Brooks and a failed pick like Barton to replace them. A new starting LB will be reasonably expensive too. It worries me a bit that we seem to be so involved at TE: it’s a position where we need improvement, but not where the big bucks should go. I would have preferred to read rumors about the Seahawks being all over a C.
Simo
I find it really interesting that many fans seem to believe top players (i.e., highly paid) like Russ would automatically restructure their deals, or take less money, so management can better afford other players.
Personally I think players like Russ want “theirs” and at the same time they want the team to surround them with top tier talent. In other words, Russ wants to be the highest paid player in the league, but he also wants a top 5 OL, lots of weapons to work with, oh and a top 10 defense as well!!
As most of us here know, it’s next to impossible to meet all those demands! There’s only so much money to spread around and if the top 10 players take up 66% of the cap, you’re trying to fill out the other 43 players with the remaining 34% of your space. It’s why teams with top QB’s on rookie deals often do so well.
So unless Russ is willing to take $10m less per year, it probably doesn’t make enough difference to really matter!
Mick
If you give him same money but differently structured so they count less towards the cap hit, it doesn’t make much of a difference to him. But yes, around 10 mil is what we should get out of this.
Remember that misdirection is an important factor in the draft at times. The Hawks could be drooling over a center right now, but not want to link themselves to a center at all for strategic reasons….
Thanks Rob. Just well done, on your side, well done.
I don’t think Russell would be at all bummed if the Seahawks moved on from Wagner and Adams, and used those resources to bolster the OL, add RB, add WR. Adams was far from great last year. Wagner is MAYBE worth half of his contract. Gotta move on. The drop off to those next in line, at both LB and SS, just isn’t nearly as precipitous as it is elsewhere on the roster. The difference between J.Reed and fill in the blank, vs Wagner and then Brooks….I just cannot fathom how Corbin, and many many others, feel the way they do. I’m just ranting.
Great listen. Refreshing to hear a respectful and informed back and forth these days, like you said.
I think you ask Bobby to take a pay cut, and if he says no (which is perfectly within his right), you move him. I would like to keep KJ though next to Brooks for another year or two. He played out of his mind this season and I don’t think he’s going to find quite the market he is hoping to coming into a new team at his age. Hopefully it ends up in both sides’ interest to make something work.
Do you have a number for Jamal where he’s still worth it? If he’s willing to take $16m/apy in this lower market, still making him the highest-paid safety but without reaching elite $18-20m territory, do you keep him? I almost just think either way the investment at that spot is not worth it and he is also the best way we can recoup any picks at all this year. But it’s a discussion I’m up for having for sure.
One other aspect I’m not sure how to factor in is that the cap was (is?) projected to explode with the new TV deals next year. So even if it takes a hit this year, can’t teams feel a bit more confident about borrowing from the future knowing how far it’s expected to skyrocket?
I don’t think I have a number for Adams where it’s worth it unless you move Wagner.
And even then, I don’t think JA is worth what they paid in picks.
I’d rather just move him, draw a line and get back in the draft.
Mike
I guess you have to ask, will we even get anything even remotely close to what we paid, if we move JA? I think we all can agree we want those picks back and wish the move wasn’t made.. but now that its happened, who’s gonna be desperate for him? Just cause we were dumb enough to make that move doesn’t mean others are. Can we trust the FO to get equivalent value for those picks?
We’ve drafted a number of safeties, with few since the LOB actually panning out. Maybe marquise blair comes through, but that’s TBD. Our best success in recent history with safeties has largely been from free agent acquisitions. McDougald and Diggs were great additions as FAs.
Last year’s D was so bad it made it hard to watch, at least to start the year. If KJ, Bobby, and Jamal all leave, who’s gonna be the alpha dog on defense? We need one bonefide leader and BAMF for the unit.
Dont get me wrong, it feels like we’ve been talking about how we need to improve the lines since 2014. Year after year we kinda half ass them. Getting real talent to build a line takes years to assemble. You dont come across talented Tackles and defensive ends picking late in drafts. They dont come onto the FA market often. When they do, it costs a premium. This year by year thing we do has been proven to not work.
I guess you have to ask, will we even get anything even remotely close to what we paid, if we move JA?
You won’t get two firsts, a third and a player but they shouldn’t have paid that anyway. I’d happily take two R2’s or a R1+R3 and yes, I think there are teams who would pay that.
Last year’s D was so bad it made it hard to watch, at least to start the year. If KJ, Bobby, and Jamal all leave, who’s gonna be the alpha dog on defense?
Sign Sherman. Retain Diggs, Dunlap, Reed. Challenge Brooks to become one. That’s plenty.
JLemere
FO signed Alex Collins to contract.
JLemere
Aaron Wilson from the Houston Chronicle first reported it, followed by Curtis Crabtree and Bob Condotta.
Mick
I liked the guy, and most likely here goes Hyde.
cha
Good signing.
Rob4q
Agreed, this is a solid move and may mean that they are expecting Carson to move on. I just don’t see them giving Carson a big money contract, but I think another team might.
Penny has a year to prove himself, Collins could be a solid 2nd back that could also start if needed, pick one of Homer/Dallas, then draft a rookie in the mid to late rounds to come in and learn the ropes.
I really do think if Penny comes to camp healthy and in shape, he will have a fantastic year in the offense Waldron will run. He had explosive ability before the knee injury, so hopefully he can get back to that. If not, he will be done in Seattle for sure…
I like it but I will remind folks (as I have before) he looked just a bit better than he might over time in the limited action he saw with Seattle because he had fresh legs and the people he was playing against did not. It is a factor. Still, I can’t imagine much if any drop off from Hyde and no doubt he comes cheaper.
Sea Mode
Breakout second season? Monster year…? Did I miss something?
Really enjoyed the podcast Rob. I was really surprised how well you guys played off each other despite clearly not agreeing on most points. I have never really paid much attention to the stuff Corbin does but I would love to see you guys do more of these down the road.
The more I listened to you guys talk the more it made me realize that this team has almost zero chance to be a contender in 2021. I know most fans cringe at the idea but I really believe it is time for a blow up and complete overhaul with roster churn / churn like when PC/ JS first got here. Russ, Adams and Wagner would like net you at least (4) 1st round picks and (3) 2nd-3rd round picks over the next two years and clear $70-75 mill in annual cap room going forward.
It would be a huge project and who knows if they can find magic twice but I think it is a bigger risk to be mired in mediocrity for years. Like we have been of late.
Happy Hawk
Tanking is an option….not a good one historically..but an option non the less.
dj 1/2 way
Tough to tank when you trade your 1st round pick. Key to tanking is taking advantage of a down year or two and the resulting high picks.
Danger to whom?
I agree that the roster is far off, to my very untrained eye. Pete was stoked on this years 12-4. Won the division. Was right there, fightin, scratchin, clawin. Had to get it right, and just couldn’t quite get some stuff….Pete’s super bowl, where the goal line stands. PCJS re-upped. Where is the danger?
In no way am I having a go at you, Trevor. The only leverage (danger) that is being exercised, is Russell.
Trevor
Not sure what you are talking about when you say danger?
My point is team has not been close to a Super Bowl since Russ signed his mega deal and they are further away now than ever. Time for a change the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. They have no cap space or draft capital so how exactly do they make an average team into a contender without huge changes.
Oof. I was all types of wrong. What I was trying to say was that the only risk (not danger, not sure how I got that twisted), is to the long term health of the franchise: PCJS have been re-signed, and the only pressure they are under seems to be from Russell.
I completely agree that the current roster doesn’t seem to be close to contention.
James Cr.
That was fantastic Rob. I really appreciated how you both took the time to actually listen to each other’s responses and didn’t talk over one another. Absolutely love a disagreement that remains civil and level headed. Kudos to both you and Corbin.
Rob: Bill Belichick just had his first losing season in a long, long time. If you were Bill Belichick would you trade this years first round and second round picks this year and first round pick 2022 and a first round pick 2023. And maybe throw in Jason Stidham for Deshaun Watson? BTW: The Patroits could easily absorb Watson’s contract. They have a TON of cap space available. Would that be enough to get Houston to move Watson?
Consensus in Denver media is they’d happily trade 3 R1, 2 R2, and Bradley Chubb for Watson (Wilson also implied but deemed not likely available). They are all in. Great point was brought up about how hard it is to find a franchise QB that is worth +6 wins and can get you to a Super Bowl.
It’s also interesting to compare fan bases and relative value. Broncos have been bad since Manning and haven’t been great drafting either. Trading picks for a QB is easy. Also saw Saints fans not willing to part even with 2 R1s for Wilson. They’ve drafted very well and been spoiled with Drew Brees.
TheOtherJordan
If Denver offered three firsts, two seconds and Chubb, I wouldn’t even hesitate. Trade Wilson.
Brik
I’d want Drew Lock too
Spectator
If denver offered 2 firsts and Chubb I wouldnt hesitate. If only that was an actual option.
Jordan E
Awesome Rob!! This is great. Always imagined what it would be like if you debated with Corbin lol
I think there are two things that really stand out to me. I believe this is posturing for Russell to convince the team to provide him with better protection. The reality is any team they would trade him to, by virtue of trading for him would be in an adverse position. If your a team like say miami, and you give up 3 ones and a two for example, you’ve now hampered your ability to build the team to Russell’s strength. THey’re now not positioned as well to build around / protect him and who’s to say he goes to a new team and has ANY MORE success than here. In reality Sean Payton has had Drew Brees for 15 years, they’ve been to 1 superbowl, and 2 NFC Championships.
Moving to a offensive minded head coach won’t guarrantee that Russell will win more superbowls or win more games, in fact they’ve had 5 losing seasons with that combo. When Russ talks about legacy and the greatest to ever do it, what does that actually MEAN. What is it that he wants to be the greatest ever at? Is it superbowls? is it personal / statistical records? is it total wins?
Secondly, i just do not see a scenario on this team where they keep both Wagner and Adams. They are going to lose KJ and are at the point where as Rob says they should not be dumping money into LB / S . The truth is though they gave up so much for Adams, that they almost HAVE to sign in, and at that point, you can’t keep Wagner. He’s a tremendous player, but he has not lived up to his contract IMO. He’s had a ton of tackles, but where are the game changing plays, the interceptinos, the fumbles, the strip sacks. For the money they are paying, they need more. At this point you now have to decide which of the two players you’re rolling with, and personally the guy who’s 25 is the guy i’m paying although reluctantly.
SeattleLifer
Well that was a good and respectful discussion👍 It was good to hear Corbin’s points/counterpoints and have the back and forth. I’m definitely in the at the very least trade Adams camp and given the monies involved it would be nice to move Wagner too.
I just hope we don’t do a good bit of borrowing/cutting/trading only to have Schneider and Pete decide to pay a bunch of in house guys way too much (Griffen,Carson,Lockett etc). If Schneider can’t look back upon recent years to learn from so many of the contracts that put the Hawks in bad situations then I fear more of the same. Pete and John both need to take hands looks at how things have gone since the last Super Bowl and make some proactive changes in how they see and do things going forward.
I know Rob went to great lengths to get across that the post wasn’t an attack, but I’m sure there are other writers out there with bigger egos out there that would have perceived it that way. Massive respect to Corbin for sitting down with you and talking it all out.
Interesting to get his viewpoint, and I think there’s something to his comments about the energy Jamal brings to the team. It’s something that we as fans can’t really quantify, while being something that Pete values hugely. We may see a lot of his “rah rah” stuff as self promotional and a little plastic, but if the locker room thinks differently that’s all that matters.
If we were to get the baseline offer Rob talked about (1&3 or 2&2) I’d still be in favour of moving him; we need draft capital in the worst way. But I’m not sure PC/JS will see things the same way.
Great podcast Rob, even in a year without a 1 and a 3 your output is as interesting as ever.
You’re right, it is difficult to quantify his ‘energy’. But I don’t personally feel like we saw any obvious advantage to having that last season. Kam and Marshawn used to set the tone for the entire team. You could see it, feel it. Adams was kind of just inserted into the Seahawks and I don’t think we saw anyone really elevate because of his presence.
Yeah, I agree with you. My favourite play of all time was in the SB against Denver. Manning’s second drive after the botched snap / safety. He hit D.Thomas on a short crosser on 2nd and 7, a play they’d been killing zone with all year. And Kam just lit him up for no gain. Whole D went nuts.
That’s the energy I want to see. Actions on the field energising everyone and making them believe. I’m sure Adams is a great teammate and can inspire people, but the juice he brings is less tangible than we saw with Kam and Sherm.
Sea Mode
I like to look at how teammates celebrate plays made. Adams… pretty alone…
Yeah… I never got the sense that the team really gravitated to Jamal Adams.
Cawww
My favorite play of all-time too! I was sitting in that end-zone corner behind the Broncos offense and could see that whole thing develop. At that moment I knew the game was over. Still get chills thinking about it.
cha
He has energy but it’s going in 19 different directions. It’s true, his closing speed and that nervous energy bouncing around before the snap have an attack dog feel to it. But there are so many other things that leave you scratching your head.
-jawing and trash talking receivers after he’s been burned for a big gain
-telling reporters he’s going to play when he’s clearly hurt and hasn’t talked to the team (if I recall he told the press he was ready 2 weeks into his 4 week groin injury)
-the gloom and doom expression and demeanor on the sideline after injuring his shoulder against SF
-the celebratory cigar on the podium after clinching the division
-jawing at the Rams on Twitter after the Seahawks got their tails kicked in the playoff game
-taking time this offseason to trash Jets fans
It’s all a rich tapestry of unfocused energy.
John_s
After reading the Michael Sean Duggar/Mike Sando/Jayson Jenks piece on Russ and the Seahawks, i don’t know how the team and QB can co-exist. A trade needs to happen this offseason.
JD
Did he request a trade?
SonGoku
His camp has broached trade destinations (Jets, Dolphins, Raiders, Saints) with the Seahawks.
JD
Trying to read the tea leaves… RW’s camp spoke with the FO about a trade and based on team’s interest and RW’s interest, these are the 4 teams that RW’s camp released to the media AKA teams he’d be interested in going to. Because why else would RW’s camp release those teams names to the media? Am I reading this situation correctly?
Seems almost inevitable at this stage with today’s news. I think two main factors along with the baseline level of trade compensation for Russell that needs to be included and weighed is 1. The salary cap implications being a negative for the Seahawks and 2. trading next year’s first rounder under the assumption we’d be picking in the 20’s with Russell as our QB.
Those two factors need to be weighed when discussing compensation. I believe the 3 R1’s are just for Russell as a player but the dead money hit and the lack of a first next year and that pick potentially being a high one now needs to add significant compensation to the equation.
Jordan E
Dolphins would be pretty nice… Let’s get that early pick and Tua…
bmseattle
If true, Wilson naming the Jets as a possible trading partner helps out tremendously.
They have a ton of picks to offer, and at the very least could drive up the price.
If picks are what we’d want, the Jets and Dolphins are the clear favorites.
bmseattle
Like Rob, I’m not a big fan of Tua…
however, I could see Pete liking him a lot.
He’s accurate and has no qualms in taking what the defense gives him.
Pete could see him as fitting perfectly into his vision of how an offense and defense complement each other.
no frickin clue
That article was fascinating and it puts some more meat on the bones of what Rob has been talking about for months. Also interesting to juxtapose Russ’ never-ending stream of positivity (in public) at the same time as he was getting more and more dissatisfied. The fact that he’s now switched to publicly expressing dissatisfaction at every turn suggests he’s going to leave no stone unturned in finding a quick exit.
I will preface this statement with, Russ is truly a fantastic person who has given a ton of himself to kids, and causes, but he’s also a total fake when it comes to the media.
schuemansky
Let’s get Darnold, their first-rounder in 21 and their R1 picks in 2022, then trade 2 to Carolina for 8 and their 2022 R1 pick.
We could end up with 3 picks in the Top 10 in 2022!!!
SonGoku
If we really trade him to the Jets I absolutely want our own picks back, they seem a lot more valuable now than 9 months ago.
cha
Yeah! Let’s reenact Draft Day. I want my picks back, and I want David Putney too! Just because I can you pancake-eating mother ******
TheOtherJordan
I’m concerned. Because if the Jets didn’t go to David Putney’s birthday that just raises too many red flags for me.
dcd2
CableThanos or someone should recreate that scene with Costner being Joe Douglas, Schneider being the pancake eater and Jamal the player in question.
It’s interesting the amount of details that are coming out now. The idea of a trade happening is growing day by day. I was convinced last week that this year didn’t seem very realistic of a trade happening. My thoughts are changing. This could be a real possibility before the draft. However, I still think after the draft it doesn’t happen until maybe next year.
Jordan E
I’ve said this before… but even if Russ comes back does anyone think we have a legit shot at winning? There has been 0 SBs won with a QB making massive amount of the cap.. Yes, were a good team with Russ but with him taking up so much of the cap we are not good enough to go to SB. One of Brady’s best perks was that he consistently took less because he understood that he needed better teammates to win a SB. Especially, consider how much media QBs get. Other players need that money more than the QB. Especially Russ who is constantly on the news and doing publicity stuff with Ciara. If he’s serious about legacy and winning a SB he should take a pay cut. Russ has to perform at an absurd level consistently to justify his gigantic contract (which he has done at times; but it has to be consistent still).
Russ doesnt have to take a paycut. He’s already not the highest paid guy, and he’s going to continue to get passed in that salary dept. Seattle had every opportunity the last two years with draft picks (2019) and salary cap (2020) to build a contending roster. They absolutely blew it. There is no arguing they blew it. Last year’s team could have been a contender with his salary.
Simo
I understand your point about no SB winning teams with very highly paid QB’s, but why then do teams line up in an attempt to trade for these QB’s? If reports are accurate, 50-70% of the teams have called about Russ’ availability. I’m sure the numbers are similar for the highly paid D Watson.
It’s obvious really. Teams have a much better chance of winning (even winning big) if they have a franchise type player at QB. There’s no guarantees of course, but certainly your team has a better chance each year with a top QB in the fold. The only situation that gives teams better odds of winning is when they hit big on a drafted QB and win big while they are on a first contract. If teams can surround a franchise QB on a first contract with top talent, they can do very well for the life of that contract.
I just don’t think there will ever be a shortage of teams willing to trade considerable assets for highly paid franchise QB’s! And I’m not sure there’s really ever more than 8-10 of these players in the league at any given time. They are hard to come by, no wonder they are highly valued!
cha
It’s definitely a give and take though Jordan.
The Seahawks blew a lot of their credibility with that wreck of an offseason last year. $50m spent on Bruce Irvins, Benson Mayowas, BJ Finneys, Jacob Hollisters Cedric Ogbuehis and Branden Jacksons don’t give the Hawks a leg to stand on to even consider asking Russ to take a paycut to help them out.
Scot04
Totally agree Cha, last season was a wasted opportunity. If I’m Wilson I’d tell them if I’m giving you my money I will only do it for these players otherwise screw it. Obviously they had 0 intentions of putting big money in the O-line. If your Russell why would you believe they will be any different this year.
Jordan E
Totally. I agree with that. My point isn’t that Pete and JS have done a great job… They haven’t. But still its arguable that they have been cheaper than usual especially since Russ got paid.
And I agree with Scot. If Wilson ideally took a paycut to get his guys… like TB12 then that would be totally justifiable and worth it. My point is not to defend Pete & JS… But acknowledge that Russ is part of the blame too.
And causation can really never be made in sports… Too many factors to consider if they were serious in doing a scientific experiment to establish causality.
What would Wilson’s cap hit be if he was traded for the other team? Would they receive a lower number since the Hawks would have to eat much of it?
Jordan E..you and a million other fans across the internet has said that before…
(neglecting that 31 teams each year include QBs below 13% of the cap space still lose)…
it’s an interesting pattern and a valid talking point, but correlation is NOT causation. Do you think you should never pay a QB over 13%? In reality, you actually want this kind of parity in the NFL. As teams accomplish more, repeat success becomes more difficult (contracts $$ go up, and talent ages).
I don’t want to hate on your opinion/perspective, but I feel its short sighted. If the front office is offering you a 130 million dollar deal, they clearly believe they can build a football team with those constraints. It’s that simple. It’s not Russ’ fault for taking the deal, and its not his fault they failed to execute their plan. It’s not like Pete and every other head coach doesn’t have this “startling piece of revealing data”…on QB contracts..
The truth is, it doesn’t matter. If Russ did take a pay cut, you get the feeling it wouldn’t be for Pete. This is not about finances, or ex situ activities away from the field. Getting a paycheck with a lot of 0s does not equate to respect from the front office and coaching staff.
Scot04
True James…
I believe as Rob pointed out the cap space between Russell and Brady was only like 2M for 2020; so it had 0 to do with Wilson’s contract.
Jordan E
My response is to check out the cap hit for the other team who would get Wilson… He would be paid under 30M… And if they won SB it would be another example of a QB who was not paid the most by a single team winning a SB.
Poli
Don’t tell me ownership is going to chose to keep Carroll instead of Wilson please
Rob an amazing amount of detailed content. Thank you for that. Always love the bogboard as well.
The podcast with you and corbin was outstanding. Great debate on two offseason plans. I still believe your way with trading Adams and Wagner is best.
Even if Wilson is traded, i still believe trading Adams and Wagner should follow.
Still build the trenches for whoever the new QB will be.
The Athletic article only points out what you have been saying since before the 2020 season even started. You were so far Ahead of all of this.
It has been great to be able to have your site which always seems to be ahead of the others and puts an unbiased opinion out there for all of us to debate.
You have created a great home for the true Seahawks fan to be able to discuss the team in a real un watered down environment. To the point, fact written pieces along with all the other content just continues to evolve. The added pieces from Cha, and separate with Robbie have been wonderful additions as well.
Now we get to add 4 destinations possibilities to the discussion. Thanks for all your hard work, it’s greatly appreciated.
Well done Rob.
I liked the conclusion at the end – ‘this what people used to do – discuss things instead of screaming on twitter’ Well said.
Would you trade russ to the Jaguars for picks 1, 25 and 33?
Trevor Lawrence
Azeez Ojulari
Jalen Mayfield
I doubt Russ would sign off on being traded to a small market team going through a rebuild.
Sexy trades are sexy to fans. Players…not so much.
That wasn’t even close to my question.
I would take that deal for Russ. The chance to draft big Trev is worth it alone, the other two guys are just gravy!
I would not trade Russ for a rookie QB, at least definitely not this year.
Of course I would. Good QBs on rookie deals are a recipe for the Super Bowl for anyone without a QB named Tom Brady.
But why in the world would the Jags want to do that?
How many of the 2020 rookie QBs made it to the playoffs (which is still far from Super Bowl)? And I wouldn’t trade Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers or Watson for Lawrence, and Wilson is up there with these names.
How many rookie QB’s played on a team that won 12 games the year before?
In his first year as a starter Mahomes threw for 5000 yards and 50 TD’s, won the MVP and cost about $3M.
His second year he won the Super Bowl.
I’d take it in a second. I have no doubt GB and Houston would take that deal as well. Jags wouldn’t though and RW wouldn’t agree to it either.
Mahomey sat behind Alex Smith his rookie year.
uhg! Hit enter too soon. That first year learning behind Smith was invaluable to Mahomes and got him into his groove so that he could acclimate to the NFL and level of play.
That’s what I meant. First year as a starter mvp and super bowl next.
Herbert and burrows looked pretty good as rookie qbs on bad teams too though.
Yeah, both those guys had amazing rookie years. Hope Burrows will be able to fully rebound and Herbert was just lights out his rookie season! Lots of potential for amazing careers between the two of them.
The Jags would never do it but I think the Hawks would in a blink.
If you get their #1 for 2022 as well then yes.
If Russ became really belligerent and forced the issue, sure.
Otherwise, no.
Jags call up and offer that, I say yes very fast before Urban walks into Baalkes office and rips the phone line out of the wall.
So watching the podcast, I was thinking of potential moves that the FO can do and something that I don’t think has been discussed yet is maybe they should move off Lockett this year. Minnesota was able to pull it off by trading away Diggs and then were able to draft his replacement with Jefferson. San Francisco was also able to do that as well by trading away Deforest Buckner and then drafting his replacement with Kinklaw. Now will SEA get a 1 for Lockett? Very unlikely. But if the receiver class is going to be strong again in the draft, they should be able to get a starting caliber receiver in the 2nd round and save ~14 million in cap space, which then could be used on the O-line, D-line and/or TE. I personally don’t think RW would approve of the move, but if PC is hell-bent of having full control, this is a move that could transpire this offseason.
They already have limited draft stock, and would likely use that 2nd rounder on an Offensive Lineman. If they get a 2nd for Lockett, yes. I agree with Rob, the good teams recycle their lineups, and with ageing players, you need to be able to let a few of those guys go and see what the new guys have to offer.
LB….. do you trade Wagner and sign KJ Wright? I think you lose one of them for sure.
I wouldn’t be opposed to going with Wright and Brooks.
Rob, Have you looked at Chuba Hubbard? Listed at 6′ 207 lbs. Little lighter than they prefer but man he looks dynamic. He has been available in round 4 in a couple mocks I have done.
2020 Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp3vCXudM2E
2019 Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tya0eUajFmA
Also loved the pod. Thanks for feeding my daily seahawks cravings.
Thanks for the kind words
I’m not a big fan of Hubbard’s. Had a lot of runs where he just has to run in a straight line through a huge gap. Light frame, more quick than explosive. I’ve always thought he was a late round pick and more of a college player than pro.
If they miss out on the top 3 backs, harris, etienne, williams, do you think theyll draft a back or look towards free agency? I hop they don’t give penny the backfield this next season.
That’s a very difficult question to answer this year
He is a Canadian kid and I have followed his career really closely. I he was a really good college RB but as much as I hate to say it I just don’t see him as a Hawks RB.
Fantastic podcast between you guys. Thought you both handled it really well and made good points/counter points. Hope you get to do this again sometime soon.
Thank you
Really enjoyable discussion, Rob. I am wondering if Russ would be willing to restructure his contract so we can get him the players he wants. I don’t quite agree with Corbin’s argument that Russ will be upset to see Bobby and Adams go, he will understand that new players must be paid with some money, and even drafted, which doesn’t work with 4 picks. But it is scary to play without KJ and Bobby, and to rely on a second year player like Brooks and a failed pick like Barton to replace them. A new starting LB will be reasonably expensive too. It worries me a bit that we seem to be so involved at TE: it’s a position where we need improvement, but not where the big bucks should go. I would have preferred to read rumors about the Seahawks being all over a C.
I find it really interesting that many fans seem to believe top players (i.e., highly paid) like Russ would automatically restructure their deals, or take less money, so management can better afford other players.
Personally I think players like Russ want “theirs” and at the same time they want the team to surround them with top tier talent. In other words, Russ wants to be the highest paid player in the league, but he also wants a top 5 OL, lots of weapons to work with, oh and a top 10 defense as well!!
As most of us here know, it’s next to impossible to meet all those demands! There’s only so much money to spread around and if the top 10 players take up 66% of the cap, you’re trying to fill out the other 43 players with the remaining 34% of your space. It’s why teams with top QB’s on rookie deals often do so well.
So unless Russ is willing to take $10m less per year, it probably doesn’t make enough difference to really matter!
If you give him same money but differently structured so they count less towards the cap hit, it doesn’t make much of a difference to him. But yes, around 10 mil is what we should get out of this.
Thank you.
I think Russ would quite rightly say — you wouldn’t need to restructure my contract if you hadn’t blown so much money to acquire not a lot in return.
True.
It’s not a matter of Russ being willing.
The Seahawks built the ability to restructure into his contract.
It’s if the Seahawks want to push out some money is the question.
Remember that misdirection is an important factor in the draft at times. The Hawks could be drooling over a center right now, but not want to link themselves to a center at all for strategic reasons….
That was great. Kuddos gents.
Thank you
Thanks Rob. Just well done, on your side, well done.
I don’t think Russell would be at all bummed if the Seahawks moved on from Wagner and Adams, and used those resources to bolster the OL, add RB, add WR. Adams was far from great last year. Wagner is MAYBE worth half of his contract. Gotta move on. The drop off to those next in line, at both LB and SS, just isn’t nearly as precipitous as it is elsewhere on the roster. The difference between J.Reed and fill in the blank, vs Wagner and then Brooks….I just cannot fathom how Corbin, and many many others, feel the way they do. I’m just ranting.
I really appreciate the work. Thanks
Thank you
Very fun podcast. Wouldnt mind hearing more of you and Corbin.
I’m up for any podcast, any time
Great listen. Refreshing to hear a respectful and informed back and forth these days, like you said.
I think you ask Bobby to take a pay cut, and if he says no (which is perfectly within his right), you move him. I would like to keep KJ though next to Brooks for another year or two. He played out of his mind this season and I don’t think he’s going to find quite the market he is hoping to coming into a new team at his age. Hopefully it ends up in both sides’ interest to make something work.
Do you have a number for Jamal where he’s still worth it? If he’s willing to take $16m/apy in this lower market, still making him the highest-paid safety but without reaching elite $18-20m territory, do you keep him? I almost just think either way the investment at that spot is not worth it and he is also the best way we can recoup any picks at all this year. But it’s a discussion I’m up for having for sure.
One other aspect I’m not sure how to factor in is that the cap was (is?) projected to explode with the new TV deals next year. So even if it takes a hit this year, can’t teams feel a bit more confident about borrowing from the future knowing how far it’s expected to skyrocket?
I don’t think I have a number for Adams where it’s worth it unless you move Wagner.
And even then, I don’t think JA is worth what they paid in picks.
I’d rather just move him, draw a line and get back in the draft.
I guess you have to ask, will we even get anything even remotely close to what we paid, if we move JA? I think we all can agree we want those picks back and wish the move wasn’t made.. but now that its happened, who’s gonna be desperate for him? Just cause we were dumb enough to make that move doesn’t mean others are. Can we trust the FO to get equivalent value for those picks?
We’ve drafted a number of safeties, with few since the LOB actually panning out. Maybe marquise blair comes through, but that’s TBD. Our best success in recent history with safeties has largely been from free agent acquisitions. McDougald and Diggs were great additions as FAs.
Last year’s D was so bad it made it hard to watch, at least to start the year. If KJ, Bobby, and Jamal all leave, who’s gonna be the alpha dog on defense? We need one bonefide leader and BAMF for the unit.
Dont get me wrong, it feels like we’ve been talking about how we need to improve the lines since 2014. Year after year we kinda half ass them. Getting real talent to build a line takes years to assemble. You dont come across talented Tackles and defensive ends picking late in drafts. They dont come onto the FA market often. When they do, it costs a premium. This year by year thing we do has been proven to not work.
You won’t get two firsts, a third and a player but they shouldn’t have paid that anyway. I’d happily take two R2’s or a R1+R3 and yes, I think there are teams who would pay that.
Sign Sherman. Retain Diggs, Dunlap, Reed. Challenge Brooks to become one. That’s plenty.
FO signed Alex Collins to contract.
Aaron Wilson from the Houston Chronicle first reported it, followed by Curtis Crabtree and Bob Condotta.
I liked the guy, and most likely here goes Hyde.
Good signing.
Agreed, this is a solid move and may mean that they are expecting Carson to move on. I just don’t see them giving Carson a big money contract, but I think another team might.
Penny has a year to prove himself, Collins could be a solid 2nd back that could also start if needed, pick one of Homer/Dallas, then draft a rookie in the mid to late rounds to come in and learn the ropes.
I really do think if Penny comes to camp healthy and in shape, he will have a fantastic year in the offense Waldron will run. He had explosive ability before the knee injury, so hopefully he can get back to that. If not, he will be done in Seattle for sure…
I like it but I will remind folks (as I have before) he looked just a bit better than he might over time in the limited action he saw with Seattle because he had fresh legs and the people he was playing against did not. It is a factor. Still, I can’t imagine much if any drop off from Hyde and no doubt he comes cheaper.
Breakout second season? Monster year…? Did I miss something?
https://twitter.com/gmfb/status/1364606014578827268
Don’t forget ‘anchor of the defense that led the NFL in pressures’
Oh my goodness.
This is the same thing as Collier saying last summer he was disrespected by being called a ‘draft bust’
“Now that you’ve fully justified the R1 pick they spent on you…”
How much did his agent shell out!?
Sounds to me like someone has had an overdose of PC in his ear…
Also said he feels like the Seahawks will have the league’s best defense next year. For fucks sake LJ, don’t talk if you can’t back it up
Here’s what I heard in that interview…
‘Blah blah blah blah’
Enough talk from LJ, more delivery please.
I just heard, “Man…man…man…man…”
Zzzzzzzz……………
Really enjoyed the podcast Rob. I was really surprised how well you guys played off each other despite clearly not agreeing on most points. I have never really paid much attention to the stuff Corbin does but I would love to see you guys do more of these down the road.
Thank you
The more I listened to you guys talk the more it made me realize that this team has almost zero chance to be a contender in 2021. I know most fans cringe at the idea but I really believe it is time for a blow up and complete overhaul with roster churn / churn like when PC/ JS first got here. Russ, Adams and Wagner would like net you at least (4) 1st round picks and (3) 2nd-3rd round picks over the next two years and clear $70-75 mill in annual cap room going forward.
It would be a huge project and who knows if they can find magic twice but I think it is a bigger risk to be mired in mediocrity for years. Like we have been of late.
Tanking is an option….not a good one historically..but an option non the less.
Tough to tank when you trade your 1st round pick. Key to tanking is taking advantage of a down year or two and the resulting high picks.
Danger to whom?
I agree that the roster is far off, to my very untrained eye. Pete was stoked on this years 12-4. Won the division. Was right there, fightin, scratchin, clawin. Had to get it right, and just couldn’t quite get some stuff….Pete’s super bowl, where the goal line stands. PCJS re-upped. Where is the danger?
In no way am I having a go at you, Trevor. The only leverage (danger) that is being exercised, is Russell.
Not sure what you are talking about when you say danger?
My point is team has not been close to a Super Bowl since Russ signed his mega deal and they are further away now than ever. Time for a change the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. They have no cap space or draft capital so how exactly do they make an average team into a contender without huge changes.
Oof. I was all types of wrong. What I was trying to say was that the only risk (not danger, not sure how I got that twisted), is to the long term health of the franchise: PCJS have been re-signed, and the only pressure they are under seems to be from Russell.
I completely agree that the current roster doesn’t seem to be close to contention.
That was fantastic Rob. I really appreciated how you both took the time to actually listen to each other’s responses and didn’t talk over one another. Absolutely love a disagreement that remains civil and level headed. Kudos to both you and Corbin.
Thank you James
Rob: Bill Belichick just had his first losing season in a long, long time. If you were Bill Belichick would you trade this years first round and second round picks this year and first round pick 2022 and a first round pick 2023. And maybe throw in Jason Stidham for Deshaun Watson? BTW: The Patroits could easily absorb Watson’s contract. They have a TON of cap space available. Would that be enough to get Houston to move Watson?
I doubt that would be enough. But sure, if I didn’t have a franchise QB I would try and acquire Watson.
Loved the pod Rob. Excellent listen.
Thank you
Extremely enjoyable to listen too, made the hour commute home way better
Thank you
Consensus in Denver media is they’d happily trade 3 R1, 2 R2, and Bradley Chubb for Watson (Wilson also implied but deemed not likely available). They are all in. Great point was brought up about how hard it is to find a franchise QB that is worth +6 wins and can get you to a Super Bowl.
It’s also interesting to compare fan bases and relative value. Broncos have been bad since Manning and haven’t been great drafting either. Trading picks for a QB is easy. Also saw Saints fans not willing to part even with 2 R1s for Wilson. They’ve drafted very well and been spoiled with Drew Brees.
If Denver offered three firsts, two seconds and Chubb, I wouldn’t even hesitate. Trade Wilson.
I’d want Drew Lock too
If denver offered 2 firsts and Chubb I wouldnt hesitate. If only that was an actual option.
Awesome Rob!! This is great. Always imagined what it would be like if you debated with Corbin lol
Thanks
I think there are two things that really stand out to me. I believe this is posturing for Russell to convince the team to provide him with better protection. The reality is any team they would trade him to, by virtue of trading for him would be in an adverse position. If your a team like say miami, and you give up 3 ones and a two for example, you’ve now hampered your ability to build the team to Russell’s strength. THey’re now not positioned as well to build around / protect him and who’s to say he goes to a new team and has ANY MORE success than here. In reality Sean Payton has had Drew Brees for 15 years, they’ve been to 1 superbowl, and 2 NFC Championships.
Moving to a offensive minded head coach won’t guarrantee that Russell will win more superbowls or win more games, in fact they’ve had 5 losing seasons with that combo. When Russ talks about legacy and the greatest to ever do it, what does that actually MEAN. What is it that he wants to be the greatest ever at? Is it superbowls? is it personal / statistical records? is it total wins?
Secondly, i just do not see a scenario on this team where they keep both Wagner and Adams. They are going to lose KJ and are at the point where as Rob says they should not be dumping money into LB / S . The truth is though they gave up so much for Adams, that they almost HAVE to sign in, and at that point, you can’t keep Wagner. He’s a tremendous player, but he has not lived up to his contract IMO. He’s had a ton of tackles, but where are the game changing plays, the interceptinos, the fumbles, the strip sacks. For the money they are paying, they need more. At this point you now have to decide which of the two players you’re rolling with, and personally the guy who’s 25 is the guy i’m paying although reluctantly.
Well that was a good and respectful discussion👍 It was good to hear Corbin’s points/counterpoints and have the back and forth. I’m definitely in the at the very least trade Adams camp and given the monies involved it would be nice to move Wagner too.
I just hope we don’t do a good bit of borrowing/cutting/trading only to have Schneider and Pete decide to pay a bunch of in house guys way too much (Griffen,Carson,Lockett etc). If Schneider can’t look back upon recent years to learn from so many of the contracts that put the Hawks in bad situations then I fear more of the same. Pete and John both need to take hands looks at how things have gone since the last Super Bowl and make some proactive changes in how they see and do things going forward.
I know Rob went to great lengths to get across that the post wasn’t an attack, but I’m sure there are other writers out there with bigger egos out there that would have perceived it that way. Massive respect to Corbin for sitting down with you and talking it all out.
Interesting to get his viewpoint, and I think there’s something to his comments about the energy Jamal brings to the team. It’s something that we as fans can’t really quantify, while being something that Pete values hugely. We may see a lot of his “rah rah” stuff as self promotional and a little plastic, but if the locker room thinks differently that’s all that matters.
If we were to get the baseline offer Rob talked about (1&3 or 2&2) I’d still be in favour of moving him; we need draft capital in the worst way. But I’m not sure PC/JS will see things the same way.
Great podcast Rob, even in a year without a 1 and a 3 your output is as interesting as ever.
You’re right, it is difficult to quantify his ‘energy’. But I don’t personally feel like we saw any obvious advantage to having that last season. Kam and Marshawn used to set the tone for the entire team. You could see it, feel it. Adams was kind of just inserted into the Seahawks and I don’t think we saw anyone really elevate because of his presence.
Yeah, I agree with you. My favourite play of all time was in the SB against Denver. Manning’s second drive after the botched snap / safety. He hit D.Thomas on a short crosser on 2nd and 7, a play they’d been killing zone with all year. And Kam just lit him up for no gain. Whole D went nuts.
That’s the energy I want to see. Actions on the field energising everyone and making them believe. I’m sure Adams is a great teammate and can inspire people, but the juice he brings is less tangible than we saw with Kam and Sherm.
I like to look at how teammates celebrate plays made. Adams… pretty alone…
Yeah… I never got the sense that the team really gravitated to Jamal Adams.
My favorite play of all-time too! I was sitting in that end-zone corner behind the Broncos offense and could see that whole thing develop. At that moment I knew the game was over. Still get chills thinking about it.
He has energy but it’s going in 19 different directions. It’s true, his closing speed and that nervous energy bouncing around before the snap have an attack dog feel to it. But there are so many other things that leave you scratching your head.
-jawing and trash talking receivers after he’s been burned for a big gain
-telling reporters he’s going to play when he’s clearly hurt and hasn’t talked to the team (if I recall he told the press he was ready 2 weeks into his 4 week groin injury)
-the gloom and doom expression and demeanor on the sideline after injuring his shoulder against SF
-the celebratory cigar on the podium after clinching the division
-jawing at the Rams on Twitter after the Seahawks got their tails kicked in the playoff game
-taking time this offseason to trash Jets fans
It’s all a rich tapestry of unfocused energy.
After reading the Michael Sean Duggar/Mike Sando/Jayson Jenks piece on Russ and the Seahawks, i don’t know how the team and QB can co-exist. A trade needs to happen this offseason.
Did he request a trade?
His camp has broached trade destinations (Jets, Dolphins, Raiders, Saints) with the Seahawks.
Trying to read the tea leaves… RW’s camp spoke with the FO about a trade and based on team’s interest and RW’s interest, these are the 4 teams that RW’s camp released to the media AKA teams he’d be interested in going to. Because why else would RW’s camp release those teams names to the media? Am I reading this situation correctly?
Seems almost inevitable at this stage with today’s news. I think two main factors along with the baseline level of trade compensation for Russell that needs to be included and weighed is 1. The salary cap implications being a negative for the Seahawks and 2. trading next year’s first rounder under the assumption we’d be picking in the 20’s with Russell as our QB.
Those two factors need to be weighed when discussing compensation. I believe the 3 R1’s are just for Russell as a player but the dead money hit and the lack of a first next year and that pick potentially being a high one now needs to add significant compensation to the equation.
Dolphins would be pretty nice… Let’s get that early pick and Tua…
If true, Wilson naming the Jets as a possible trading partner helps out tremendously.
They have a ton of picks to offer, and at the very least could drive up the price.
If picks are what we’d want, the Jets and Dolphins are the clear favorites.
Like Rob, I’m not a big fan of Tua…
however, I could see Pete liking him a lot.
He’s accurate and has no qualms in taking what the defense gives him.
Pete could see him as fitting perfectly into his vision of how an offense and defense complement each other.
That article was fascinating and it puts some more meat on the bones of what Rob has been talking about for months. Also interesting to juxtapose Russ’ never-ending stream of positivity (in public) at the same time as he was getting more and more dissatisfied. The fact that he’s now switched to publicly expressing dissatisfaction at every turn suggests he’s going to leave no stone unturned in finding a quick exit.
I will preface this statement with, Russ is truly a fantastic person who has given a ton of himself to kids, and causes, but he’s also a total fake when it comes to the media.
Let’s get Darnold, their first-rounder in 21 and their R1 picks in 2022, then trade 2 to Carolina for 8 and their 2022 R1 pick.
We could end up with 3 picks in the Top 10 in 2022!!!
If we really trade him to the Jets I absolutely want our own picks back, they seem a lot more valuable now than 9 months ago.
Yeah! Let’s reenact Draft Day. I want my picks back, and I want David Putney too! Just because I can you pancake-eating mother ******
I’m concerned. Because if the Jets didn’t go to David Putney’s birthday that just raises too many red flags for me.
CableThanos or someone should recreate that scene with Costner being Joe Douglas, Schneider being the pancake eater and Jamal the player in question.
I’m sure most have seen this, but if true, wow.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/25/report-russell-wilson-stormed-out-after-his-ideas-for-fixing-seattles-offense-were-dismissed/
It’s interesting the amount of details that are coming out now. The idea of a trade happening is growing day by day. I was convinced last week that this year didn’t seem very realistic of a trade happening. My thoughts are changing. This could be a real possibility before the draft. However, I still think after the draft it doesn’t happen until maybe next year.
I’ve said this before… but even if Russ comes back does anyone think we have a legit shot at winning? There has been 0 SBs won with a QB making massive amount of the cap.. Yes, were a good team with Russ but with him taking up so much of the cap we are not good enough to go to SB. One of Brady’s best perks was that he consistently took less because he understood that he needed better teammates to win a SB. Especially, consider how much media QBs get. Other players need that money more than the QB. Especially Russ who is constantly on the news and doing publicity stuff with Ciara. If he’s serious about legacy and winning a SB he should take a pay cut. Russ has to perform at an absurd level consistently to justify his gigantic contract (which he has done at times; but it has to be consistent still).
Russ doesnt have to take a paycut. He’s already not the highest paid guy, and he’s going to continue to get passed in that salary dept. Seattle had every opportunity the last two years with draft picks (2019) and salary cap (2020) to build a contending roster. They absolutely blew it. There is no arguing they blew it. Last year’s team could have been a contender with his salary.
I understand your point about no SB winning teams with very highly paid QB’s, but why then do teams line up in an attempt to trade for these QB’s? If reports are accurate, 50-70% of the teams have called about Russ’ availability. I’m sure the numbers are similar for the highly paid D Watson.
It’s obvious really. Teams have a much better chance of winning (even winning big) if they have a franchise type player at QB. There’s no guarantees of course, but certainly your team has a better chance each year with a top QB in the fold. The only situation that gives teams better odds of winning is when they hit big on a drafted QB and win big while they are on a first contract. If teams can surround a franchise QB on a first contract with top talent, they can do very well for the life of that contract.
I just don’t think there will ever be a shortage of teams willing to trade considerable assets for highly paid franchise QB’s! And I’m not sure there’s really ever more than 8-10 of these players in the league at any given time. They are hard to come by, no wonder they are highly valued!
It’s definitely a give and take though Jordan.
The Seahawks blew a lot of their credibility with that wreck of an offseason last year. $50m spent on Bruce Irvins, Benson Mayowas, BJ Finneys, Jacob Hollisters Cedric Ogbuehis and Branden Jacksons don’t give the Hawks a leg to stand on to even consider asking Russ to take a paycut to help them out.
Totally agree Cha, last season was a wasted opportunity. If I’m Wilson I’d tell them if I’m giving you my money I will only do it for these players otherwise screw it. Obviously they had 0 intentions of putting big money in the O-line. If your Russell why would you believe they will be any different this year.
Totally. I agree with that. My point isn’t that Pete and JS have done a great job… They haven’t. But still its arguable that they have been cheaper than usual especially since Russ got paid.
And I agree with Scot. If Wilson ideally took a paycut to get his guys… like TB12 then that would be totally justifiable and worth it. My point is not to defend Pete & JS… But acknowledge that Russ is part of the blame too.
And causation can really never be made in sports… Too many factors to consider if they were serious in doing a scientific experiment to establish causality.
What would Wilson’s cap hit be if he was traded for the other team? Would they receive a lower number since the Hawks would have to eat much of it?
Jordan E..you and a million other fans across the internet has said that before…
(neglecting that 31 teams each year include QBs below 13% of the cap space still lose)…
it’s an interesting pattern and a valid talking point, but correlation is NOT causation. Do you think you should never pay a QB over 13%? In reality, you actually want this kind of parity in the NFL. As teams accomplish more, repeat success becomes more difficult (contracts $$ go up, and talent ages).
I don’t want to hate on your opinion/perspective, but I feel its short sighted. If the front office is offering you a 130 million dollar deal, they clearly believe they can build a football team with those constraints. It’s that simple. It’s not Russ’ fault for taking the deal, and its not his fault they failed to execute their plan. It’s not like Pete and every other head coach doesn’t have this “startling piece of revealing data”…on QB contracts..
The truth is, it doesn’t matter. If Russ did take a pay cut, you get the feeling it wouldn’t be for Pete. This is not about finances, or ex situ activities away from the field. Getting a paycheck with a lot of 0s does not equate to respect from the front office and coaching staff.
True James…
I believe as Rob pointed out the cap space between Russell and Brady was only like 2M for 2020; so it had 0 to do with Wilson’s contract.
My response is to check out the cap hit for the other team who would get Wilson… He would be paid under 30M… And if they won SB it would be another example of a QB who was not paid the most by a single team winning a SB.
Don’t tell me ownership is going to chose to keep Carroll instead of Wilson please
There is no ownership. There’s a caretaker in charge managing the estate.
My daughter said it best:
“You know I’m kinda excited to see what they could get for Wilson in a trade. But that means Pete makes the picks. I guess we are screwed either way!”
Very astute young lady!
Rob an amazing amount of detailed content. Thank you for that. Always love the bogboard as well.
The podcast with you and corbin was outstanding. Great debate on two offseason plans. I still believe your way with trading Adams and Wagner is best.
Even if Wilson is traded, i still believe trading Adams and Wagner should follow.
Still build the trenches for whoever the new QB will be.
The Athletic article only points out what you have been saying since before the 2020 season even started. You were so far Ahead of all of this.
It has been great to be able to have your site which always seems to be ahead of the others and puts an unbiased opinion out there for all of us to debate.
You have created a great home for the true Seahawks fan to be able to discuss the team in a real un watered down environment. To the point, fact written pieces along with all the other content just continues to evolve. The added pieces from Cha, and separate with Robbie have been wonderful additions as well.
Now we get to add 4 destinations possibilities to the discussion. Thanks for all your hard work, it’s greatly appreciated.
Jake Heaps (connected to Russ as well) chimes in:
https://twitter.com/TheBGustafson/status/1365028593953214465?s=20