Pre-season week #1 thoughts (vs Las Vegas Raiders)

August 15th, 2021 | Written by Rob Staton

What a joyless experience that was.

Admittedly, a number of key players were missing. That really just highlighted an issue that has existed for some time in Seattle.

The Seahawks rely on quality players. Their stars — Russell Wilson, D.K. Metcalf et al — elevate the team.

When’s the last time a brilliant piece of scheming or coaching won the day?

Both teams rested starters. The Raiders gave a whole game to the much maligned Nathan Peterman.

Yet they were able to put together a coherent plan for a quarterback who has been the butt of many jokes. He finished with 246 passing yards and 32 rushing. They ran for 158 yards. They moved the ball relatively well, all considered — collecting 385 total yards and converting 11/17 on third downs.

The Seahawks, in comparison, delivered a total wet fish of a performance. As has been the norm over the years, the offensive play in pre-season whenever Russell Wilson isn’t on the field has been abject.

They had just 194 total yards. They ran for 68 — 25 of which came from Alex McGough. None of the quarterbacks looked comfortable. They were 4/13 on third downs.

Here’s the yardage split in the first half:

Raiders — 290
Seahawks — 44

I could sit here and talk about Cody Barton’s two sacks (well collected, yet mixed in with a poor first half performance). Yes, it was nice to see Darrell Taylor on the field for the first time (albeit in a largely unspectacular debut). Good for Deejay Dallas to take his opportunity to make a big play when the Raiders defense fell asleep.

Yet all I could think of as I watched the game on replay this morning (having rightly decided not to stay up until 2am to watch it live) was the stark difference in coaching.

Jon Gruden had his team functioning and ready to play. The Seahawks were not.

Part of that will be growing pains with a new offensive coordinator and scheme adjustments. I’m sure the Seahawks are also keen not to tip their hat for the Colts game.

Yet so often in recent years this team hasn’t been particularly well coached or prepared. They’ve failed to adjust in games too. And they rely on Wilson to execute, on Metcalf to use his insane physical skill to make a difference.

This is a team without particularly good depth across the board that relies on a handful of stars. If/when those stars underperform, the Seahawks look incredibly ordinary (as we saw at times at the end of last season). They haven’t been able to coach around those occasions.

Regardless of who did or didn’t play — Las Vegas looked reasonably well-tuned in this one. Seattle looked like they were still in the first week of camp.

And while there’s understandably a lot of excitement around Shane Waldron’s arrival — he’s still a rookie play-caller on a new team operating for a Head Coach known for meddling. It feels like everyone is pinning their hopes on Waldron to offer the kind of coaching chops that have been lacking. That’s a lot of pressure on his shoulders.

The other key takeaway was the O-line.

I’m not sure what needs to happen with Duane Brown. However, there is absolutely no way the Seahawks can afford to go out to Indianapolis with Stone Forsythe starting at left tackle. There has to be concerns about a line that is already being impacted by injuries to Damien Lewis and Ethan Pocic.

Finally — short of a quick recovery for D.J. Reed — Tre Flowers and Ahkello Witherspoon will be Seattle’s starting cornerbacks in Indianapolis. Based on the evidence in this game, that’s a scary thought.

Not good enough… on both sides of the ball” was Pete Carroll’s assessment afterwards. And he was right.

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149 Responses to “Pre-season week #1 thoughts (vs Las Vegas Raiders)”

  1. McZ says:

    We cannot sugarcoat this.

    Our “always compete” coach rolls on his third year of lousy, uninspired, erratic coaching. “Not good enough” game plan, execution and adjustment. Just lazy.

    Add to this the shambles that is Seahawks scouting, bad cap management, no clear direction in FA and outright panic, it smells like the end of an era.

    The Seahawks have a completely disinterested ownership. The question is, why should we be expected to care?

    Mariners and Kraken hockey are fueling new excitement. Maybe it’s time to let it go.

    • Kevin says:

      Agree it’s the end of an era. Pete had a good run, but he absolutely needs to be gone next season. Russell Wilson’s prime is being wasted on a team that will continue to be mediocre.

    • Rowdy says:

      Lmfao the mariners fueling excitement? That’s funny

      • Josh says:

        You obviously haven’t been paying attention to the team. They’ve got a ton of young talent now just starting to mature.

      • McZ says:

        They are fueling my excitement. And lots of other people’s.
        If that’s not your fish, fine. I can live with it, and couldn’t care less.

  2. No Frickin Clue says:

    A desultory performance all the way around.

  3. Big Mike says:

    Total yards in the 1st half:
    Raiders 290
    Hawks 44

    Abysmal performance by Seattle.

    Remember when Seattle’s 2nd and 3rd units utterly dominated teams in preseason because the depth was so great? Ah yes, the days gone by. Of course it’ difficult to add depth when you have 3 draft picks cuz you are endlessly trading them away to patch holes because your previous draft picks have failed or your offseason “plan” to add to your pass rush ends up being an often injured blitzing safety in exchange for a king’s ransom..

    • Rob Staton says:

      It’s just so frustrating

      • Rob Staton says:

        And I’ll tell you this too — Carroll is well aware how shite that was last night.

        His body language was clear in the post-game press conference. He had his angry face on.

        He looked like a man who was quite concerned.

        • Dave1401 says:

          There’s just 0 buzz or excitement is there? There wasn’t any last year either and maybe that was a factor in making the desperation trade for Adams

          • Rob Staton says:

            There’s just the usual pre-season optimism among a certain section of the fan base. The same kind, from the same people, that talked themselves into Mayowa/Irvin being enough for the pass rush a year ago.

            I fear for Shane Waldron. I think people expect the McVay offense. And I think this is going to be harder to achieve than people realise for a rookie play-caller.

            • Dave1401 says:

              The hope (albeit probably misplaced) that Waldron will reinvograte the offense is the only reason I’m not completely despondent about our prospects this season. I may be in for a strong reality check week 1

            • Big Mike says:

              Hard to achieve with a shite (for you Rob) offensive line. For a guy that knows football as well as Pete Carroll supposedly does, you’d think he of all people would understand that the old adage that the game of football is won in the trenches is true.

              • Rob Staton says:

                That’s what confuses me more than anything.

                Pete has preached ‘trenches’ football since day one. And when he came in initially, they ploughed picks into the OL, prioritised the DL. Now they’re using picks and money on safety, linebacker and a #3 receiver.

                They have Wilson and Metcalf. This team could cause a LOT of problems for opponents if they were really, really good in the lines. And they aren’t.

                • bmseattle says:

                  The offensive line issues will also magically be solved by Waldren!
                  Haven’t you heard that the Rams scheme is super “offensive line friendly”?

                • Ashish says:

                  I wanted center in place of WR as first pick. Again short term thinking is hurting. Adams trade will be pain for years both in terms of draft pick and cap space.

                • Dan Riggs says:

                  Friendly reminder – it’s the preseason, people. There is no way to get a sense of this team until Game #1, when *all* the *starters* are on the field and the real game plans are implemented.

                  No doubt there are fans who wear rose-colored glasses. But there are also fans who consistently wear glasses tinted with something else (which smells far less pleasant than roses).

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    Nobody is saying they have a sense for the season after one pre-season game.

                    The complaints are specifically relating to this game. The depth looks crap. There’s concern about the O-line in its current form. Tre Flowers as a prospective starter is scary. The Raiders moved the ball far better than Seattle and looked like they had a plan to function in this game. Too often the Seahawks don’t appear to have a coherent plan, rather they rely strictly on the brilliance of key players (and when they don’t perform, when’s the last time they pulled it out with a great game plan or adjustment?). This game brought that to attention as a talking point.

                    All relevant points that some people seemingly don’t want anyone to discuss.

            • Elmer says:

              Tre Flowers was a target. Not acceptable.

          • SeaTown says:

            And now the compounding of that horrific trade with a terrible contract will ultimately be the nail in the coffin for this Seahawk football era. The Seahawks are built with stars and scrubs. There is no middle tier. And if Russ and the few stars they have can’t carry the load, the team crumbles and the Jets benefit. I have no passion for this team. It’s hard watching PC/JS run into the ground. But I survived Tom Flores/Ken Behring so I’ll survive this.

            • Big Mike says:

              “And now the compounding of that horrific trade with a terrible contract will ultimately be the nail in the coffin for this Seahawk football era.”

              100% agree SeaTown.

        • SeaTown says:

          I agree Rob! I stayed up for the press conference. Pete gave off of vibe that he gave off after that Ram playoff shellacking. He will never admit it but he did seem oddly downcast after a first preseason game with no stars having played.

          • Rob Staton says:

            That was the big takeaway for me. I expected him to blow it off as an experience for some young players. His opening statement was that they weren’t good enough on either side of the ball and he looked furious.

            Which was indicative, IMO, of a man who recognised there are issues here.

            • Big Mike says:

              Issue #1 that can be easily rectified, get Duane Brown a contract and get him into camp.
              Outside of that, what else can be done to solve the other issues, especially lack of depth? I’m open to thoughts guys because my hopes for this season are very low.

              • Rob Staton says:

                Nothing can be done.

                You can’t fix holes like that in August.

                • Big Mike says:

                  😢

                  • SeaTown says:

                    Big Mike what we are seeing manifest is years of wasting good capital. The great drafts of 2010-2012 enabled the team to operate at the highest levels. But they got cute with the Percy Harvins, Jimmy Graham’s, Malik McDowells, Rashad Pennys and LJ Colliers and squandered all the capital they accrued. Now they are in perpetual over correct mode instead of being the proactive organization they started out as. Unfortunately there is no Paul Allen to hold PC/JS accountable. Sadly I think this death spiral ends with Russell demanding a trade and PC walking away with the team on its death bed as he did at USC. I don’t think this can be rectified at this point.

                  • Call Me AL says:

                    Watching that game last night was just another painful exhibition of how bad the Seahawks organization is. No depth, poor coaching and a bad game plan. They were soundly beaten is all aspects of the game by the Raiders.

                    I’ve been a football fan for many years, many bad teams, but have never experienced the pain and suffering that is the Seahawks these past few years. Last year was an absolute dumpster fire. How they won twelve games is beyond me.

                    Please somebody who cares, buy this team!

                    Nothing short of a complete rebuild starting with getting rid of the coaching staff and the GM (he had his chance) is going to stop this death spiral!

                  • Big Mike says:

                    100% agree SeaTown

                    Pete leave a dying franchise? “I can’t imagine that”

            • bmseattle says:

              He’s probably annoyed that he realizes he’s going to have to cave with Brown and his contract demands.

            • SeattleLifer says:

              The question now is how long will Pete be able to resist wanting to take control of things. I can’t see him lasting too long letting things be to Waldron and others if he’s seeing the team play the way they just did. This season has the potential to get ugly on a number of fronts and as was said by a poster above the main benefactor would be the Jets(and possibly a team trading for Wilson).

  4. Justaguy says:

    This game was a glimpse of the 2022-2023 season without Russ

  5. Marc says:

    It’s time to extend Duane Brown and Adam’s. Bring back KJ Wright and Richard Sherman on one year deals.

    We need veteran help at center and tight end too.

    This team has too many holes to be a Super Bowl contender. It feels like an 9-8 or 8-9 season.

    • CaptainJack says:

      If Russ goes down, I wouldn’t expect us to win a single game. Not with McGough Mannion or Smith at least…

    • AlaskaHawk says:

      “This team has too many holes” is exactly why they shouldn’t extend Adams. How is he a fit for the Seahawks when he hasn’t shown all pro abilities in coverage? The only use they have for him is rushing, and we know that will get Adams injured. Another expensive contract with a player who will be injured every season would be a disaster. They need to use their money and draft picks on rebuilding the team.

      • Marc says:

        I understand that perspective. But in a Win Now model, the Seahawks have to re-sign him. They gave up a ton of draft capital to get him. He is a rare playmaker — yes he has faults but few in the NFL can change a game like he can.

        If you want to say rebuild, say goodbye to Russell Wilson. He is in prime. He doesn’t appear to have the patience to wait for the Seahawk’s front office to pull their heads out. Years of suspect drafting have left them in this spot.

    • Roy Batty says:

      Sherman was supposedly suicidal, went on a drunken bumper car rampage and fought with the cops.

      He will not be playing this year. And, it would be a huge mistake for him to even try. The man needs to get his life in order before he jumps back into the unforgiving world of the NFL.

      • Big Mike says:

        Probably true Roy but unless you’re the professional treating him you can’t say for sure that that would be best for him. Chances are very good though that it would be.

  6. CaptainJack says:

    Ironically, the only “promising” aspect of the team to me was the pass rush….

  7. CaptainJack says:

    Did anyone else think Russ looked fairly irritated most of the game on the sideline? Even without starters playing he didn’t look happy with the result on the field.

    • dand393 says:

      It’s funny you say that I noticed that right from the beginning a guy who really looked like he did not want to be there

    • olsonc says:

      I noticed that as well. He looked disinterested and wasn’t his usual happy cheerleader self when the camera caught him and I was paying attention.

  8. AlaskaHawk says:

    I thought the defensive line made the best effort last night. Rasheem Green was trying hard for a sack. He looked like he has good speed but can’t change direction quickly. After a year and a half Darrell Taylor finally made the field, something that many fans doubted would ever happen. Alton Robinson looked good. These are all rotational guys, so good for the Seahawks.

    My questions are more about the offensive line and the running backs. Will they have healthy linemen who can block? Will they be able to gain yards on the ground? This is Penny’s last season and I’m expecting him to be injured again. Carson is the best back but a big question mark for durability. Collins didn’t look that good last night. And Dee Jay is a third string back. Why doesn’t Pete concentrate on improving the offensive line and finding a star running back? This goes against everything I used to understand about Pete Ball.

  9. Trevor says:

    Does any team in the NFL have less depth and young talent than the Seahawks? I really can’t think of one right now. I know it is just pre-season but it hi-lighted the fact the the talent cupboard is bare. Really wish the team had just traded Adams, Wagner and at least added some young talent to try and build around.

    More importantly though Pete and John should never have been extended. Feels like when Marv Levy / Bill Polian’s time was up in in Buffalo. They let them hang on too long and by the time they left it took the Bills years to recover. In fact I am not sure they ever have.

    • Big Mike says:

      Someone earlier this week used the Tom Landry situation as well. Your Polian/Levy comparison works too.

      Btw, eff Polian.

  10. Chicken Little says:

    Holy s***….the doom and gloom on here after the FIRST preseason game is alarming. There is minimal game planning, if any, that goes into this game. We had a handful of people (if that) on our two deep play. I mean Alex McGough played a majority of the game – what did you expect?

    The fan base likes to compare our depth to the 2013-2015 squads, but the problem is that was one of the deepest NFL teams of the last 15-20 years and is not, or should not, be held up as the standard. Yes our 3rd string is not going to blow the doors off anybody, but since when has that been the expectation?

    Some may say well this a symptom of a larger issue. Well to them I say why don’t we give this version of the Hawks an opportunity to prove that in a real game before we throw the entire squad in the trash?

    I love this blog. I have followed it for a decade and check it nearly every day, even in the off-season, in hopes of seeing a new article from Rob. But the negativity is starting to significantly outweigh any measurable amount of pragmatism or open mindedness towards our Hawks. Being a sports fan should be about hope, and excitement, and for the unknown potential that comes with every new season. But judging by the comments here it looks like the community already has this team buried 6 feet deep.

    • Rob Staton says:

      So basically… if people don’t agree with you, you’re going to lose your shit?

      • Rob Staton says:

        As for…

        Being a sports fan should be about hope, and excitement, and for the unknown potential that comes with every new season.

        This website doesn’t owe you that. I’ve always said from day one, I’ll write what I think. Positive or negative. I’ve written plenty of both over the last 13 years.

        But I’m not going to sugarcoat my opinion to give you what I would consider false excitement going into a new season.

        • olsonc says:

          False optimism is for Mariner fans-the losers. The Seahawks are the winners, we need to hold them to that standard.

          That said, the depth does look to be lacking. With Colby Parkinson going down I was hopeful to see a 3rd option at TE and did not see that. Oline looked bad. D-Line looked small and not powerful. Tre Flowers still bad in coverage. WR nothing special out there really.

          I’m surprised they’re still high on Alex Collins, he just looks average speed and small. See him on the field pregame he has small arms and a bit of a belly. Same Alex Collins I remember, out of shape NFL running back with average speed, low power and a fumbler.

          BBK & Cody Barton are at least passable depth.

          We look like a team that has missed on drafts and free agents and it shows. I would like to see more youth, upside and BAMF to return to this team, but it won’t happen for a while.

          That said, the 12th man is bandaid that holds this mediocre squad together and they’ll be back this year, so I’m hopeful that will yield an extra win or 2.

          • Hawkdawg says:

            Some Al Woods and Poona, and more Mone, will help the strength up the middle.

            I’m looking to next game’s first quarter. Because you needed to squint hard to see much light from this game.

    • McZ says:

      “Yes our 3rd string is not going to blow the doors off anybody, but since when has that been the expectation?”

      They played what will be more or less out starting OL. I think, it’s not too much to ask to settle the Duane Brown question, isn’t it?

      “Well to them I say why don’t we give this version of the Hawks an opportunity to prove that in a real game before we throw the entire squad in the trash?”

      It was actually PC, who did this. He blamed the players where he should have blamed himself for his bad preparation.

      And if you think, that a coach preaching the “always compete” mantra is not planning for a game like this, where the second and third string can show up, I don’t know what to tell you.

      • Leithal87 says:

        Wait…you really believe the OL that started this game is “more or less” our starting O line? I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or if you’re just very misinformed.

        Also I imagine most of these Preseason games will be showing some very vanilla playcalling as to not give too much good tape on our new OC before the regular season.

        • Rob Staton says:

          Currently yes, this is the best available OL due to injuries and a hold out

          • Leithal87 says:

            Hi Rob – I was mainly disagreeing with the comment above mentioning “They played what will be more or less our starting OL.”…. Call me an optimist but I don’t think anyone of the starting O lineman this last Saturday will touch the field against the Colts come Sept 12th.

            I know Duane is still holding out but I think we’re all still counting on left to right to look like Brown-Lewis-Pocic-Jackson-Shell. Which is not “more or less” Forsythe-Simmons-Fuller-Haynes-Curhan

            Definitely agree this game did not inspire a lot of confidence outside of some good individual performances.

            • Rob Staton says:

              Well Pocic is injured and the general feeling if Fuller is in the driving seat to start. Duane Brown is holding out and has made it clear he will not be playing without a contract.

    • mr peapants says:

      you should go talk to mr w(h)yman

    • Steve says:

      I agree with this.

  11. Gaux Hawks says:

    looking at this roster, i still see center as the biggest hole (remember max unger)… with witherspoon and hyder as big question marks on the defense.

    QB: Russell Wilson, Gino Smith (A)
    LT: Duane Brown, Stone Forsythe (A)
    LG: Damien Lewis, Phil Haynes (A)
    C: Ethan Pocic, Kyle Fuller (C)
    RG: Gabe Jackson, Phil Haynes (B)
    RT: Brandon Shell, Cedric Ogbuehi (B)
    RB1: Chris Carson, DeeJay Dallas (A)
    RB2: Rashaad Penny, Travis Homer (B)
    HB: Gerald Everett, Nick Bellore (B)
    TE: Will Dissly, Colby Parkinson (B)
    WR1: D.K. Metcalf, D’Wayne Eskridge, Freddie Swain (A)
    WR2: Tyler Lockett, Penny Hart, Cade Johnson (A)

    DE: Kerry Hyder, L.J. Collier (C)
    DT: Poona Ford, Robert Nkemdiche (B)
    NT: Al Woods, Bryan Mone (B)
    LEO: Carlos Dunlap, Benson Mayowa (B)
    SAM: Darrell Taylor, Alton Robinson (B)
    MIKE: Bobby Wagner, Cody Barton (A)
    WILL: Jordyn Brooks, Ben Burr-Kirven (B)
    NKL: Marquise Blair, Damarious Randall (A)
    RCB: D.J. Reed, Tre Brown (B)
    LCB: Akhello Witherspoon, Tre Flowers (C)
    FS: Quandre Diggs, Ugo Amadi (A)
    SS: Jamal Adams, Ryan Neal (A)

    K: Jason Myers (A)
    P: Michael Dickson (A)
    LS: Tyler Ott (A)

    my big question, is there a center on the trade block that makes sense for us? an old blog favorite sitting on a bench somewhere?

  12. Marc says:

    Don’t expect the Seattle sports media to push Pete Carroll or anyone in the front office on these painfully obvious issues. The Tre Flowers hype train is exhibit A.

    The reason they won’t/can’t ask hard questions is a matter of access. If they press anybody, they get shunned or banned. So we are left with a Seattle sports media that is comprised of jocks sniffers and apologists.

    Thank you Rob for pointing out the Emperor has no clothes.

  13. JLemere says:

    The only few positives that came out of the Raiders game

    1. BBK is making a case that he should LB #4 not Cody Barton
    2. Alton Robinson deserves a good chunk of the rotation at LEO (but there is a question of crowding at the LEO spot since Seattle listed Hyder as a LEO)

    • Call Me AL says:

      Good things ahead for Alton Robinson, in addition to playing LEO, after last night game he has moved ahead of Tre Flowers on the DB depth chart!

    • cha says:

      Cade Johnson had 4 catches on 5 targets and that 5th was not a good throw.

    • Big Mike says:

      Yeah Alton stood out for sure. Had a fine game. And thanks for the Cade reminder cha. Will he get cut in favor of an injured Eskridge tho?

      • cha says:

        Probably more about Hart or Fuller for the final spot.

        Usually those low WR spots need ST contributions but maybe with Brown, Eskridge and Dallas taking some ST snaps they can be free to just take the best WR. Just a thought.

    • neil says:

      Not sure I agree about BBK. Twice I remember, he was the first to contact the raider ball carrier and as unable to get him to the ground.

      • Hawkdawg says:

        BBK is quick, with excellent instincts. He’s not going to stone anybody one-on-one in the gap.

        • MikeB says:

          He has the brain, but not the beef. Been his issue since the draft, and as much as i want to root for the guy, i think that’s going to remain his ceiling.

  14. Denver Hawker says:

    There’s just something flat about the Hawks. There’s no inspired or elevated play. The the best players just cover up the warts. I think this speaks to the larger view that there is no plan; the team is a patchwork quilt of individual stars and scraps.

    Where are the dogs, scrappers, fearless hitters? Pete welcomed those guys in the past and now seems like he has a team that doesn’t know what it’s doing on the field.

    To be clear, this team is not void of talent or even reasonable depth in some groups. Good enough to be at lest a playoff team. But they don’t play like a team hungry for playoff wins and hellbent on a super bowl.

  15. cha says:

    https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1426718047566450696

    “oh mercy me. This footballin’ is givin me the vapors…”

    • Rob Staton says:

      Great execution on the swirling twirl air block, followed by textbook use of headbutt a team mate.

      Tebow in regular season form.

      • Gohawks5151 says:

        I had an O line coach that used to tell kids, ” If you can’t make the block at least get in their way and hope they trip on you body”. Stellar execution

  16. cha says:

    Grealish in MC blue is going to take some getting used to.

  17. Call Me AL says:

    I was looking over what will most likely be this upcoming seasons roster, and the thought occurred to me what if the Seahawks are sold. The new owner hires a coach to come in and build a super bowl contender within a two to three year time frame. Which core players would you want to keep and build the team around?

    I could only think of these five players, Damien Lewis, D.K. Metcalf, Jason Myers, Michael Dickson and Jordyn Brooks. Which really highlights the lack of good young talent on this team.

  18. Paul Cook says:

    It’s all on PC. Okay, maybe you can give a smidgen of blame to JS. But that’s about it. I’ve always thought PC was both a weaker in-game coach and strategic coach from the standpoint of game-planning for a particular team or circumstance. PC is at his best when he has the personnel to play the brand of football he loves and to impose it on his opponents weak after weak in much the same unchanging and predictable manner.

    He just doesn’t have the personnel to do that now, and hasn’t had it for the last 6 years or so. So, you either adjust to that fact and make the best of it with the type of personnel you have, or you take a few steps back and start rebuilding the kind of team that best suits your brand of football.

    They really haven’t done much of either.

    It can’t be overstated how much RW has kept this franchise afloat these past years.

    As far as the defense goes, play/start the players who at least have the most possible upside. For instance, I would start Tre Brown over the other Tre and live with whatever growing pains you might incur. At least the former Brown has some true play-making cred.

    The offense, really our only hope for this year, is dangerously close to becoming a five alarm fire with the current state of our offensive line. Getting Brown back with the team is an absolute imperative. There’s no choice in the matter, in case they actually think there is. We also need to somehow bring in some vet OLman who might be cast off from another team for whatever the reason. Let’s face it. Lewis is the only OLman we’ve drafted in the post LOB era who even raises an eyebrow.

    I don’t know. At one point I saw RW on the sidelines with some kind of writing tablet. I was thinking that he was pondering what teams to add to his trade list.

  19. Roy Batty says:

    Good gawd Dave Wyman was so incredibly bad last night. Menefee had to correct THE FORMER SEAHAWK AND CURRENT SEAHAWK RADIO COMMENTER on multiple occasions. Menefee attempted to bring a dose of reality to the commentary, only for his statements to fall on the deaf ears of Wyman. Seriously, is Wyman employed as comic relief? The guy obviously does zero homework via watching film or studying player development.

    The play on the field was bad enough without having to suffer from a commentators uninformed rambling.

    • neil says:

      Don’t feel bad. I live in Oregon and could not watch the game live, I had to watch the replay with the Raider commentators. The only time they identified a Seahawk player was a QB switch or when they had a sack. When ever the Hawks had the ball the commentators rambled on and on about crap that had nothing to do with the game. It was like the Hawks didn’t exist. I don’t know maybe the Hawks bad play inspired it, but without a jersey number chart, outside of the numbers I am familiar with, it was hard to determine who was on the field at times.

      • Gordon says:

        Thanks Neil for bringing this up. I’m in Canada and the streaming service that I subscribe to had the Raiders feed. Most of it was a tongue bath for Mark Davis. And particularly horrible was the play by play person (she had a Racine southern voice) who didn’t actually describe the action. Love em or hate em, the national broadcasters do a much better job

  20. cha says:

    Brady Henderson
    @BradyHenderson
    Asked by
    @RaibleKIRO7
    about Jamal Adams and Duane Brown, John Schneider said there’s “nothing new to report” and noted that the Seahawks have 21 players in the last year of their deal. My read on what he was getting at there: if they extend Brown now, others will expect the same.
    5:27 PM · Aug 14, 2021

    I can’t grasp this. The Seahawks regularly extend top-tier players before the last year of their deal.

    I think “others” who aren’t top-tier will understand this.

    It’s likely more about Brown’s age and health and keeping their options open.

    • Lewis says:

      My wild-ass guess would be that Brown wants more years than they are willing to commit to, though I wonder if the lack of an Adams deal could be part of it when they have so little cap space (except you would think they could create some)

    • Big Mike says:

      Hey John and Pete, don’t extend Duane and say bye-bye to Russ. Is that what you want?
      Duane has them utterly over a barrel and he knows it. Good for him. Force them to invest in the o-line.

  21. STTBM says:

    Man, I was hoping for better…but all I saw was a culmination of what I’ve been warning about for more than four years: Seattle’s 8 years of crap drafts, insanely bad big trades, and pathetic free agency, couples with letting rising young coaches (Saleh, Quinn, Richard, etc) go in favor of old friends who can’t coach (Norton, etc) have resulted in this mess. It’s not an overnight thing, but a culmination of nearly e decade of lessening competence from JS and PC.

    Since when did Carroll make the team greater than the sum of their parts? For years he seems to have done the opposite. I’ve said this repeatedly over the years, it’s an odd feeling to see so many finally agree.

    This team is 4-12 at best without Russ. Adams needs to be traded for a bag of chips, time to let Ryan Neal and Marquise Blair do their thing. They can’t be worse in coverage, and how many games were won due to Adams sacks?! I can’t remember many…

    Not finding a solid DT and thinking we were ok at C, to say nothing of the Brown fiasco, is inexcusable by PC and JS.

    What a freaking mess…

  22. cha says:

    Greg Auman
    @gregauman
    ·
    46m
    Just to update this — # of players held out from playing games this weekend:

    Rams 38
    Vikings 33
    Seahawks 31
    Giants 31
    Packers 30

  23. neil says:

    Celebrating in the end zone on a interception and lone touchdown during a preseason game while getting your socks knocked off, pretty tacky…

  24. cha says:

    Shots fired

    Matty F. Brown
    @mattyfbrown
    The #Seahawks brilliantly schemed their way to winning the NFC West in 2020…and yet people who don’t understand these things claim the coaching staff doesn’t know what they are doing from a schematic perspective
    10:26 AM · Aug 15, 2021

    • Rob Staton says:

      A pathetic tweet from a person best ignored

    • Big Mike says:

      Yeah that scheme against the Giants defense when they endlessly tried to go deep despite NY playing to defend exactly that producing a grand total of 12 points was some absolutely brilliant coaching.

    • CaptainJack says:

      Dude looks fresh out of eighth grade

      • Rob Staton says:

        He once asked me to read through his CV for him as he was keen to get into journalism. I happily obliged. Also encouraged him on a few occasions, was always happy to talk about things and offer advice when he asked. Went on his podcast too.

        Unfortunately he now resorts to stuff like this. It’s not the first time he’s done it either. It’s a shame really. Letting himself down.

  25. Ground_Hawk says:

    There was too much deja vu last night.

    Offense couldn’t sustain a drive, so defense had to step up all game, but couldn’t. Even with Russ and the starters ( great band name 😉 ) we have seen this before.

    The offense needs to be more consistent and creative, which is hopefully what Waldron can bring to the table, because his hiring was the main addition Seattle made to the offense during the offseason.

    There is pressure on Waldron, but I think there is a reasonable amount of expectation from the fans that he should help improve the offense.

  26. GoHawksDani says:

    You know what’s telling about the state of this team?
    That I didn’t even realised that the preseason game one already went down.
    And that I’m not even sure I care to watch it.
    And in previous years I took at least 10-12 hours weekly from my time to make pre-draft analysis, mocks, potential plans…after the draft I read everything about the rookies, watched some of their good games from college…I checked daily about training camp news…made multiple potential plans, rosters, thought about how different units and players might perform in the regular season.
    And now? Nothing. Zero excitement, just doesn’t really care. Thanks PCJS and owners.

    I’d rather have a team that makes me mad and suck but has some excitement about them by trending slowly upwards than a team in a stalemate and slowly progressing downwards.
    I’m not excited about a single player on the roster and just generally don’t care what happens in the season. I want to get my previous feelings back, but until MAJOR changes happen I doubt anything will change in me 🙁

    • Rob Staton says:

      It’s certainly the first time I was not excited about the first pre season game. I chose not to stay up either, which would’ve been unthinkable before. I watched it on replay in the morning with Game Pass proudly spoiling the score for me as soon as I logged on. I still watched the full version minus ad breaks.

      Watching it was a bit like watching the ‘Walking Dead’ before I gave up on it. Felt like I had to but didn’t really want to.

    • Paul Cook says:

      The Hawks regular season records these past years has really been the opiate of a large segment of the fan base. RW’s uncharacteristic frustration and dismay with the coaching staff, personnel management, and direction of the team these past few years has been a giant “tell”. It’s not much of a difficult feat to scratch beneath the surface of their regular season records to find out why they haven’t really been a serious contender for a championship run since the LOB era.

      We’re stuck here now. PC and JS have been re-upped, and have near complete control over the fate of the franchise. The only thing that changes this in the immediate future is a performance collapse in the regular season, as far as I can see. Basically speaking, everything hinges upon RW.

      I have to admit, I have lost all faith and trust in PC as the de facto leader of the franchise. I find his rah-rah optimism mostly annoying now, where I once found it more or less effective and inspiring. We need a rebuild of a kind, and PC is not the one to do it. We need the new, but we’re stuck with the old.

  27. Cambs says:

    Although they couldn’t have known it at the time, the Seahawks could have taken the Bears’ trade offer for Russ and turned that haul into Justin Fields.

    All I could think yesterday was how glad I was for Justin Fields that this did not come to pass.

  28. Paul Cook says:

    I can’t believe I’m even saying this, but the Mariners might actually be more interesting of a proposition for a fan than the Seahawks now in terms of optimism for future excitement/rewards. This is the first time you could even conceive of such a thing in like forever. LOL It’s too bad that the Mariners’ utter incompetence and futility these past 15-20 years all but completely strangled the life out of me as a fan. Let’s hope the Seahawks don’t descend into such a dark age.

    • Lewis says:

      Mariners are fun to watch and with their core of young talent with years of club control and more in the minors still to come, they are clearly an ascending team. Wish we could say the same for the Seahawks.

      • Big Mike says:

        I do hope you guys are correct and I see why you feel the way you do. However, outside of a bit from Lewis, I haven’t seen any of the young guys (Gilbert, Kelenic, Raleigh) do a whole ot yet. There is time, but when it comes to Mariners I am in perpetual “show me” mode.

      • Paul Cook says:

        The new general management gave the old guard one final time to make the playoffs, and when they didn’t, they went into full rebuild mode with complete conviction and a plan. They sold off just about all of our veteran assets for prospects, got higher picks in the draft as their record got worse, and they beefed up their international scouting department to scour the globe for new talent.

        Now 3-4 years later they have a bevy of young talent who, like you said, are under club control for years to come, some just breaking, more or less productively, into the major league ranks in recent times.

        In other words, there’s a justifiable buzz to them. A lot of Hawk fans don’t feel that same way now as in years past.

  29. AlaskaHawk says:

    Some people say there is alot of negativity here. Let me balance that out with something positive about last nights game. I saw a lot of players that I have never seen before. It’s fun finding out which college these players came from and their record.

    I mean, a running back from Stanford? The back I’ve never heard of?

  30. Mac says:

    My post game clarity: (lol)

    Negative predictions:
    -Cade Johnson will have a great preseason, naturally, we will cut him and he will sign with the Jets.
    -KNJ will continue to have bad play-calling with Alton Robinson in man to man against Kittle in the regular season.
    -Rasheem Green will suffer a setback due to injury from a large amount of reps in the preseason.
    -Fans will continue to say that the preseason doesn’t matter in a large loss but will change that perspective as soon as we win

    Positive predictions:
    -Waldron will continue the DB/Schotty offensive trend of going between run-run-pass-punt and throw screens to the likes of Ursua for negative yards. It’s super hot right now.
    -Geno Smith/McGoo will show us the value of having ‘one of the better backups in the nfl’, just like the announcers said. It’s really easy to evaluate the talent at wide receiver, tight end, and running back when you have backup qb’s who strike fear into 2nd and 3rd string defenses.
    -We will show the league that depth is overrated and establishing a plan for the possibility of players sustaining injury is having a plan to fail.
    -Pete Carroll will prove his doubters wrong early…. and then prove them right later.

  31. Ashish says:

    When your coach prefer run game and not investing in OLine. Went ahead and trade for OLIne just to satisfy their QB. Last year they had to trade someone who can improve their defense, twice Adams and Dunlap still not adding much in off season.
    So what they expect everything will automagically fix? If your Oline is porous you can’t have any play. Even when you have DK, lockett, Carson etc. I’m done with PC and JS.

  32. uptop says:

    Jarrod Hewitt might have what it takes, id like to see him developed in the practice squad for a year, he could be a nice rotational piece in the future, he was penetrating well. Projects to a 3T. Quick hands.

  33. Big Mike says:

    By the way, Stone Forsyth on the first Hawks offensive series on 3 plays, gave up monster sack that knocker Geno out of the game briefly, got called for a hold that killed the drive when it negated a nice 1st down and gave up a pressure forcing Smith to throw the ball away very early in a play.

    I’m sure Pete will spin it by saying Jemarco was out and how confident they are that he can get the job done and yadda yadda yadda. Go ahead Pete, play chicken with Duane and then watch Russ walk next offseason.

    • UkAlex6674 says:

      What did you realistically expect from a rookie drafted in the round he was though? Let’s be fair about this.

      • Big Mike says:

        I expected nothing greater. The point isn’t to knock Forsyth, the point is to illustrate how important it is to get Duane Brown in, Pay up Pete. journeyman Jemarco is unlikely to be a huge improvement. But hey if you wanna play Russian roulette with your QB it’s your call.

        • TomLPDX says:

          Boom, there it is. I felt really bad for Geno last night….and I think Geno is an asshole. Just glad Russ wasn’t there to take that hit.

    • CaptainJack says:

      If the plan is to have Stone Forsythe play in real games at all this year, it’s a crap plan regardless of how he looked preseason week 1

  34. Rob Staton says:

    https://twitter.com/BrockHuard/status/1427028614063828992

    “The eye in the sky in Vegas did not lie. Save for a few flash plays defensively, that was not a pretty picture to the play-making depth of the Seahawks roster

    My biggest concern for SEA continues to be the cornerback position. LB’s Brooks & Taylor need to grow in awareness too”

    • Troy says:

      Can always count on Brock to say it straight, I’m sure his film study was not pretty at all

      • CaptainJack says:

        Brock knows a thing or two about football, and tells it how it is. You can’t say the same for a lot of others in the seahawks media sphere.

  35. L80 says:

    Watching that was akin to experiencing a root canal with no anesthtesia.

  36. J.P. says:

    Teams tend to need their biggest stars to shine in order to make deep playoff runs, yes. I’m not sure if this is supposed to be some huge damning revelation or something. Are the Rams too reliant on Aaron Donald? He tweaked some ribs and the Rams top defense was annihilated at GB as Donald was in literal tears.

    All I want is for Wilson to shine in the playoffs. They win double digits every year and he’s hardly been perfect or anything. No one is asking him to be. Hell they won 12 games last year and the man played like he was concussed after the 1/3 mark. I don’t care much for what Geno does in the preseason. He is neither the starter now, and he’s unlikely to be the starter should Wilson be traded. They’d likely find a better QB to start than Geno so it’s pointless saying they’re a 1 win team or something without Wilson because of Geno or Mcgoo or whatever his name was.

    That’s why I remain excited about this season. I like the Waldron hire, I don’t think it takes Andy Reid to fix this offense and the Rams specifically seem adept at tackling the issues I have about the offense the last few years that went beyond O-Line play. I expect there to be struggles, but the hope is that by the end of the year, they’re storming into he playoffs instead of just limping in like they have the past two seasons as Wilson drops out of the MVP race.

    • CaptainJack says:

      I definitely think you can criticize the rams for relying too much on Donald and Ramsey to power their entire defense.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Teams tend to need their biggest stars to shine in order to make deep playoff runs, yes. I’m not sure if this is supposed to be some huge damning revelation or something.

      That’s not the point I am making.

      Let me explain. The Seahawks are not, in my opinion, a particularly well prepared or coached team. I also don’t think they adjust well enough during games. And we saw plenty of evidence of that in 2020.

      Thus, they rely on their handful of stars to cover those particular warts.

      Of course all teams ‘rely’ on their best players generally speaking. But I would argue that Andy Reid in KC, Arians and his two coordinators in TB, McVay in LA, Shanahan in SF — and others — are much more capable of covering for their stars when they’re not on top form — particularly with adjustments and also by scheming game plans to give their players the best chance to succeed.

      In Seattle it very much feels like they are talent dependent. And it felt that way in the glory years too. Seattle was often untidy, unclean and played games closer than necessary in 2012-14. The talent was so extreme it often overcame limitations in terms of scheme or game plan. An adjustment of featuring Marshawn more was often enough to get the job done because he was a sensational talent. How many times, since 2015, have the Seahawks come out flat in big games and needed a valiant Russell Wilson comeback playing backyard football to make it close (but, in the case of the playoffs, not close enough)?

      Nowadays, with the talent far less prevalent, we see games like NYG last year or what happened in the fourth quarter vs WFT or the Rams debacle in the playoffs. I don’t think KNJ is a good defensive coordinator. I think Carroll is a culture and motivation coach, rather than a great schemer. I hope you’re right about Waldron, we all do, but I think it’s a lot to put on his plate alone. And we all know Pete loves to meddle.

      • Lewis says:

        > I also don’t think they adjust well enough during games.

        This. So much this. And I just don’t get why that should be a thing, especially on offense

  37. Schrub says:

    Thanks for the article, Rob. Good to see you writing again. I was somewhat optimistic before last night, but that was embarrassing. I got through a quarter and a half before moving on to house chores.

    • CaptainJack says:

      watched every single snap. Got a little better in the third quarter. Went back to being a sh*tshow in the fourth

  38. cha says:

    Talk about a stat in isolation to fit a narrative.

    Mike Tannenbaum
    @RealTannenbaum
    Creative DCs can enable pass rushers to pressure quarterbacks unimpeded by a blocker using exotic blitzes

    5 NFL defenses were able to generate more than 50 unblocked pressures in the regular season in 2020:

    Ravens – 70
    Dolphins – 57
    Bucaneers – 54
    Seahawks – 54
    Chiefs – 51
    6:24 AM · Aug 15, 2021

    What was the actual cost of generating those 54 iso pressures? 2 first round picks, a third round pick, a player and your $17m MLB blitzing a career-high amount of times.

    And what was the scheme cost? Anyone have that stat about the defense’s QB rating allowed when Jamal blitzed and didn’t get home? It was in the 120’s if I recall.

    So, yeah.

    I can get to Paris faster than all of you idiots out there.

    All I had to do was buy my own private yet.

    Why everybody doesn’t just do that, I’ll never know.

    But I’ve got it all figured out.

    Well, at least until I have to make that first payment. But I’ll figure that out later.

      • Kurt Zumdieck says:

        Rob

        Used to mandatory retirement agents for people because of exactly the situation you are seeing.

        A noble warrior fits battles and wars throughout his whole life and then the changes, and at a certain age, he can’t change..

        That’s why you have Valhalla. Take Pete up to the top.., And lionize his body

        • Kurt Zumdieck says:

          I hate spellcheck

          70 year olds are doomed to failure. Always fighting the last battle/war. Life moves on.

          Nothing wrong with retirement before farce sets in.

          oh wait too late for that!

      • olsonc says:

        Through this all, what continues to confound me and that Rob has alluded to is the lack of forethought into personal in terms of draft free agency and scheme. It’s obvious that deploying Adams as a frequent blitzed is quite contrary to how Pete likes to play defense. We played better down the stretch when he blitzed less and relied on Dunlap & the front 4.

        So why do we have to absolutely extend him to this mega deal, knowing we don’t even want to play that kind of ball? Same can be said for Jimmy Graham trade. That was the ushering in of the finesse era. We could go on and on, but the vision and decision making is maddening.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Well this is going swimmingly.

      But we’re too negative on here etc

      Should’ve cut their losses in March

      • SeattleLifer says:

        This will be interesting though. Yes he has us over a barrel but if we do indeed have a firm three year stance (which I doubt) to handle this mess then how do Adams and his camp handle the situation? They can’t really go to the press and try and sling mud at the Hawks because I’m sure the numbers we’ve offered have been more than fair. Add in how he’s handled things all along between us and the Jets and I don’t see his side winning any media war. I don’t see him planning on playing three one-year contracts so showing up after week 6 for three years doesn’t seem like the direction they take at all. Will he finally snap and start bad mouthing and threatening things? It seems his agent and co. have him under pretty good control this go around.

        My guess is he tries to call our bluff and holds out for some earlier games, but ultimately comes in before week seven and signs his contract. And ultimately the Hawks lose big time with Adams from every possible way you could look at it. Brought in for way too high a price in picks and a player traded, brought in too late last season to integrate well enough, will probably miss games this season(on top of all the practices/preseason etc), will probably cost us dearly in a massive top of the league contract and for all we know may hold a permanent grudge against us and play not to get injured and just to ‘get his checks’.

        My hope is Pete and John have truly had enough and decide to pull his multi year contract offer as soon as he misses the first game and then try and trade him in the offseason(probably for the likes of a 2nd round pick at best…). But they have pursued and thought out this Adams situation about as poorly as humanly possible so who knows maybe they cave and sweeten the deal after he sits out a game or two – again out of desperation – what a fitting full circle that would be….

        • Rob Staton says:

          For me this latest report is the Seahawks making it known publicly that they’ve had enough. It will be interesting to see how Adams reacts because there are basically two options now. This will either be the catalyst to a long-overdue (in terms of the two parties) coming together. Or it will set the blue-touch paper for an even bigger issue.

          I don’t think Adams will play without a new deal. Equally, unless I’m mistaken (I might be) the rules on holdouts now mean the Seahawks would have the choice to shut him down and he can’t play for Seattle or anyone else — and he accrues a season. I doubt it would ever get to that point.

          But Adams’ counter, if he is inclined, to this report is to simply not play. And then what? The Seahawks are out of options, they’ve created a huge cloud over the season and a major distraction.

          We’ve been talking about this outcome since the trade was completed. How many times have we mentioned the Tunsil and Ramsey deals? Make a huge trade without a contract and you end up having to pay a premium that smashes existing positional contracts. The Seahawks walked into that and now seem to be acting like it isn’t a reality they brought on themselves.

          The whole thing is a mess and even if there’s a conclusion now — who knows what kind of ill-feeling has been created here?

          And then there’s the Duane Brown situation to solve.

          I also guarantee Russell Wilson will have an opinion on all of this — and the much vaunted ‘relationship that has never been better’ will be put to the test…

          • Mick says:

            I might be wrong, but while I’m certain that Wilson wants Duane Brown’s situation solved as soon as possible, he doesn’t care as much about what happens with Adams. Not as long as the D is just good enough.

          • SeattleLifer says:

            An unbelievably big mess that Pete and John willingly took on. I guess now both sides have been given a ‘nuke button’ out per the new rules – definitely not a helpful solution for either side. So I guess we can hope that the end game fallout of it all would be so significant that even Jodie’s cronies decide it’d be best to clean house and reset; not likely but if Russ leaves, the team has a bad season, the Adam’s situation continues as a huge gaff and ugly mess and the future thusly looked bleak anyways then who knows.

            One of these days Schneider needs to feel some real critical heat. I feel like Pete has largely been a shield for him but by this point it’s completely relevant (and I believe warranted) to start to question and call out his handling of our beloved Seahawks.

            • Rob Staton says:

              I will say this… I think people underestimate how much power PC wields. I suspect JS would do things very differently given a chance.

              • Martinb says:

                I would love to see JS have the opportunity to build a roster the way he wants without Pete vulturing over him. I can almost guarantee the roster would have more pure talent than players with “gritty back stories”. Not that it’s relevant necessarily, but he said from day one he believes in drafting a QB every year. Early, mid, late rounds…an obvious disciple of Wolf. Anyways, it would be refreshing to see what he or another GM would do without PC’s suffocating shadow.

              • SeattleLifer says:

                I do get that and expected someone to post a reply along those lines but at the end of the day John had his chance to leave if he truly was’nt on board with things. He is the trigger man with what ends up being given up in trade/salary and who is kept, lost and pursued in free agency and who’s drafted etc – there’s too much in all of those duties for him to be absolved as generously as he has been imo; Pete being involved/pushing things or not.

                I’ll just say at this point even if Pete were fired I’d be disappointed if John were kept on board. Whether he played a big role, played his part, or mostly ‘allowed’ it, John the GM has directly overseen the poor mismanagement and subsequent downward spiral of this team and to me it’s definitely been on an inexcusable level of competency for too many years since his glory days early on.

  39. UkAlex6674 says:

    OK, even I now think this is a total disaster contract wise. I’ve always believed they knew what they were doing on this, but it’s time for me to hold my hands up and say wtf. It’s an absolute shit show.

    It doesn’t detract from my thoughts on Adam’s as a player though. I still think he will be very, very good whenever he takes the field next for us.

  40. Mario says:

    Should’ve traded Russ and started over