Scouting combine day four

February 26th, 2012 | Written by Rob Staton

Quarterbacks, wide receivers and running backs all performed today at the combine. For a full list of measurements, times and reps – I’d seriously recommend this database. Any information you need from this year’s combine is included and it’ll be updated as the process goes along.

Andrew Luck (4.67) and Robert Griffin III (4.41) both ran well as expected. Russell Wilson’s 4.55 was eye catching if not a total surprise given his size, while Austin Davis  and Chandler Harnish both ran a 4.76. Although straight line speed isn’t a large part of a quarteback’s game, athleticism and mobility increasingly is. Last year we saw four quarterbacks with plus-mobility drafted in the top-12 – I suspect we’ll see at least three taken in the same range this year. Luck, Griffin III and Brock Osweiler didn’t throw the ball (Osweiler didn’t work out at all due to a slight injury). Ryan Tannehill is absent due to a broken foot.

Stephen Hill made the headlines among receivers, running a superb 4.36 and flashing during drills. We highlighted the Georgia Tech wideout earlier in the season after a fine overall performance against North Carolina. Although he was held back slightly playing in the triple-option, Hill has shown the ability to make spectacular catches, get downfield and play with a competitive streak. Don’t be surprised if he makes a big move up the boards, even in a deep year for receivers. Michael Floyd also impressed with a 4.47 at 6-2, 220lbs. Juron Criner and Mohamed Sanu both ran slightly disappointing 4.67’s but keep an eye on Keshawn Martin – he made a 4.45 and is one of the more underrated players in this class. Kendall Wright’s 4.61 was surprisingly slow while Justin Blackmon only took part in certain drills and didn’t run the forty.

During the day’s broadcast former Baltimore coach Brian Billick made an interesting top-ten mock draft which you can view by clicking here. The top three edge-rushers – Quinton Coples, Courtney Upshaw and Melvin Ingram – go #7, #8 and #10 respectively. Trent Richardson drops out of the top ten, but could conceivably be drafted by Kansas City at #11 unless they take an offensive lineman such as David DeCastro. This is probably Seattle’s most feared scenario. If the top pass rushers leave the board early, they’d almost certainly be putting their hopes in Richardson being available. I don’t expect the Alabama running back to fall too far because he’s simply too good, yet Billick’s top-ten also makes a ton of sense.

For people wondering what would happen in a situation where Richardson did go #11 to Kansas City, this is the situation where players such as Zach Brown potentially come into play. We’ll discuss this further over the next few days because Billick’s proposal would cause a few sad faces in Seattle’s front office especially if Richardson ended up a Chief.

The Seahawks stand to show interest at running back within the first few rounds so I’ve tracked and listed below the times run by the group today:

Edwin Baker (Michigan State) – 4.46 & 4.47
Mike Ball (Nevada) – 4.53 & 4.59
Vick Ballard (Mississippi State) – 4.63 & 4.66
Brandon Bolden (Ole Miss) – 4.56 & 4.66
Lennon Creer (Louisiana Tech) – 4.59 & 4.65
Rhett Ellison (USC) – 4.80 & 4.79
Bradie Ewing (Wisconsin) – 4.75 & 4.75
Terrance Ganaway (Baylor) – 4.63 & 4.72
Cyrus Gray (Texas A&M) – 4.41 & 4.50
Dan Herron (Ohio State) – 4.68 & 4.65
Ronnie Hillman (San Diego State) – 4.41 & 4.47
LaMichael James (Oregon) – 4.37 & 4.37
Doug Martin (Boise State) – 4.57 & 4.47
Davin Meggett (Maryland) – 4.50 & 4.57
Lamar Miller (Miami) – 4.38 & 4.41
Alfred Morris (Florida Atlantic) – 4.65 & 4.64
Isaiah Pead (Cincinnati) – 4.41 & 4.41
Bernard Pierce (Temple) – 4.50 & 4.50
Chris Polk (Washington) – 4.46 & 4.57
Tauren Poole (Tennessee) – 4.53 & 4.59
Chris Rainey (Florida) – 4.37 & 4.41
Darrell Scott (South Florida) – 4.72 & 4.68
Robert Turbin (Utah State) – 4.44 & 4.47
Marc Tyler (USC) – 4.78 & 4.72
David Wilson (Virginia Tech) – 4.40 & 4.43

Robert Turbin turned a few heads with a thick, muscular frame and two good times for his size – 4.44 and 4.47. I’ve had no access to Utah State this year but here’s tape vs BYU and San Jose State:

Day four links

Clare Farnsworth relays Pete Carroll’s off-season message – improving the pass rush is the key. Carroll: “We need to address the issue about our pass rush, and it’s a big factor for us. We would love to see if we can make some movement there.” This is the reason why for several weeks now our mocks have had the Seahawks taking an edge rusher. It’s also why we must pay most attention to tomorrow’s work-outs for defensive lineman and linebackers.

NFL.com has the highlights from today’s receiver and quarterback workouts.

Steve Muench says Nick Foles disappointed during drills, but Kirk Cousins impressed. Muench: “Arizona QB Nick Foles – who is fighting for position on the board with the likes of Brandon Weeden and Brock Osweiler – failed to stand out this morning. Unfamiliarity and a lack of timing with the receivers likely played a role, but he didn’t show great foot speed in his drops and took too long to get the ball out on deeper throws. Kirk Cousins, on the other hand, looked comfortable and confident and showed good accuracy in the process.”

Tony Pauline says team’s were not impressed with Alshon Jeffery during interviews. Pauline: “A handful of scouts told us tonight they were less than impressed the interviews they had with South Carolina receiver Alshon Jeffery.”

Mike Sando has a few thoughts on Arizona State quarterback Brock Osweiler. Sando: “Osweiler has a pro day workout March 30. He’s resting a foot injury at the combine and will not participate in workouts while in Indianapolis. He’s a quarterback to keep in mind for Seattle after the first round.”

Evan Silva quotes a NFL employee on Osweiler’s decision to declare this year: Silva: “NFL assistant on Brock Osweiler: “1st impression was, ‘why are u coming out early when you’ve started only 15 games?””

Mike Florio says the Seahawks and Marshawn Lynch are not close to a new deal. Florio: “Though the two sides are talking, the breakthrough still hasn’t come.  The Seahawks are expected to use the franchise tag on Lynch if the deal isn’t done before March 5.”

Jason La Canfora has the inside slant on why Stephen Hill performed so strongly at the combine. La Canfora: “Hill was considerably less polished when he arrived on the sprawling, state-of-the-art IMG campus. There, many of the kids are totally raw – especially some of the wider bodies on the offensive and defensive line – and come in as blank slates. Loren Seagrave gets them on the field and lets them run the 40, and then puts that up against an intricate computer model that has factored in all of the players measurables to project what his perfect form would be.”

Rob Rang quotes Vontaze Burfict stating he’s the best linebacker in the draft and that his coaches at ASU “kind of messed me up“. Burfict: “I just know I’m the best linebacker in this draft. The coaches kind of messed me up. I didn’t know if I would start a game or be benched. It hurt me, but I tried to fight through it.”

Tomorrow I’ll be blogging live on the defensive line and linebackers work-outs. Join us from 9am EST for the defensive lineman and 1pm EST for the linebackers. If enough people are interested I’d consider hosting a ‘Cover it Live’ chat.

74 Responses to “Scouting combine day four”

  1. Jmpasq says:

    The coaches kind of messed me up. I didn’t know if I would start a game or be benched. It hurt me, but I tried to fight through it.” Vontaze Burfict

    Is this guy serious? First off if thats his excuse for his sub par year its a bad one.The reason he was benched in the first place is because how he was playing. If he wasnt hurting the team by playing out of control physically and mentally he never would of been benched.

    2nd-If thats how u deal with adversity I dont want u on my team.

  2. Rob says:

    The words: “Coaches”, “Me”, “Messed” and “Up” should not be used by any prospect during a combine interview. Even if you believe it, you keep it to yourself. Kind of like turning up to a job interview on Wall Street in sweat pants.

  3. Dave says:

    Hey Rob I really like Cousins and think he did quite well in the combine but I noticed Thomas passed him up in all categories except the three cone and the 60 yard shuffle (haven’t done that). Can you see Seahawks drafting Thomas over Cousins? I like both and I am a little nervous about Osweiler and his injury. If we do bring in a second tier QB what do you think after the combine?

  4. Rob says:

    I think they’ll have a few guys on their list in that mid/late round range. Cousins may go earlier than their grade matches, so he might end up being out of reach. I’m not sure if they’re the type of front office to adjust grades to the extent where Cousins might be the guy in R2 – I’d be surprised. There are guys they could draft in that R4-6 range like Austin Davis, Chandler Harnish, Cousins if he’s there, Thomas, BJ Coleman. There are some options available.

  5. AlaskaHawk says:

    I liked Russel Wilson . Good stats and a good player. We can probably get him in the 6 th round. His only knock is he is under 6 foot.

  6. AlaskaHawk says:

    Lots of good running backs. Cyrus Gray looked good, I think we can pick one in the third.

  7. YDB says:

    Billick’s mock would create an interesting dilemma for the Seahawk’s war room. It does seem like the three edge rushers mentioned will be high on their board. However, reaching for Zach Brown at pick 12 seems to me like Schnieder’s definition of panicking at a position of need.

    Even if this (worst case) scenario was to play out, the ‘Hawks could still bolster their front seven with the DT of their choice– hopefully Brockers. The 27 year old Branch will be entering the final year of his contract next year and may be looking for a raise on his four million per year contract when negotiation time comes. With our d-line, Brockers would be allowed to develop his raw skills to become a dominant inside force for years to come.

  8. Rob says:

    Brockers is off the board in Billick’s mock and I think we need to stress again that Seattle likes the three DT’s they have. Whether Branch is out of contract or not – there’s nothing to stop them re-signing him or finding the next Alan Branch. Drafting Brockers this year would not be an impact pick – he’d be spelling Branch as another guy with size who hasn’t shown a natural pass rushing quality, but he’s bigger than most DT’s. Brockers weighed in at something like 322lbs at the combine – the Seahawks do not need more size, they need a pass rush and they need speed. It’s all about the edge rush in this draft, speed in the front seven. Brown wouldn’t be a panic move – teams have him a lot higher on their boards than perhaps we realise here. A lot of teams out there would say it’s par for the course.

  9. Jim Kelly says:

    I was so freakin’ happy when I saw Florio state that the Hawks and Marshawn Lynch are not close to a deal. He is so out of touch with reality that I am surprised if he perdicts anything correctly.

  10. YDB says:

    Oops, I didn’t notice Brockers was off his board. My thinking is that sooner or later, youth will have to be served on the D-line as they represent the oldest position group on the team.

    Also, the reason I classify Brown as a panic/reach at 12 is position more than player. I feel that picking him in round one would not provide the value I would like to see picked there. Going back to what I said in the past: this front office and coaching staff is particularly adept at finding and developing talent later in the draft at this position. Of course, my disclaimer has been that if Pete and John pull the trigger on a Will at pick 12, than we should be VERY excited about the potential they project for the player.

  11. Rob says:

    Misfit74 – I honestly wouldn’t get your hopes up. There is no chance – absolutely zero possibility – that Robert Griffin III will be a Seahawk. The media can toss Seattle’s name into a bag full of others if they wish, but it is not going to happen. Seattle isn’t trading up to take any quarterback this year, they won’t be drafting a quarterback at #12 either.

  12. Is the real deal! I don’t know why he hasn’t caught your eye before? I’ve been waiting for you to profile him Rob. Maybe he just slipped under your radar, but if the Hawks got him, he is such a talented RB I could see him taking over for Marshawn in a few years. This is a guy who really gives you a great risk/value.

  13. That’s Robert Turbin.

  14. Rob says:

    I have no access to Utah State tape, Steve – I will never pass comment on a player I’ve not had the opportunity to study. Unfortunately Turbin falls into that bracket.

  15. Misfit74 says:

    -Rob

    I don’t have any hopes about RGIII becoming a Seahawk. I’ve been one who consistently has been against moving up for him or holding the belief that it would be possible – in part due to the team within our division holding the pick. But, I did find it noteworthy, as it’s really the only time I’ve seen it in print with a link to the Seahawks and RGIII other than the blogosphere.

    I have to say, I did like the performances of a number of guys. WRs: Floyd, Hill, and Owusu. RBs: Wilson, Martin (of course) and also Cyrus Gray and Ronnie Hillman. Bernard Pierce looked awful.

    I wouldn’t mind a guy like Gray as our #2 RB and think he’d be a 3rd-5th round guy who could easily supplant Forsett.

    It’s disappointing that Jeffery did nothing – though healthy. Blackmon’s routes looked good, but he fought the ball a little bit. Floyd looked good at almost everything and lesser-known guys like Quick and Givens backed up the early-process statements heard by Mayock about them somewhat.

    Fun day overall. Only saw glimpses of the QBs throwing, but I read about Cousins looking very good.

  16. SHawn says:

    Doug Martin puts up 28 reps in the bench press!?!? Impressive.

  17. Doug says:

    More support for my trade up for Coples/Upshaw theory…

  18. Brad Q says:

    Not sure how anyone can say there’s a 0% chance we trade up for RG3. That’s total hyperbole. The most difficult position to acquire is QB. All other positions can easily be found. All we lack in putting the cherry on this sundae is RG3 and we’ll be in SB conversions for the next decade. The Hawks chances are in the 10% range and if they offered 3 #1’s + 3 #3’s, it would go to 50%. No such thing as 0% chance hyperbole when P&J have to get a QB in yr 3 or they wont make it past year 5.

  19. Rob says:

    Misfit74 – Absolutely a very interesting day – hopefully tomorrow will be equally interesting given the fact it’s the DL’s and LB’s (aka – Seattle’s prime target area in the draft). Cyrus Gray flattered to deceive a little bit at A&M but performed well today. I still think Doug Martin is the #2 to Trent Richardson in this class and would be a steal for Seattle in round two. Lamar Miller and David Wilson have value too. I’m trying to catch up on RB’s given it’s a more likely earlier round pick than I initially thought.

  20. Rob says:

    Doug – there won’t be any trading up.

    Brad Q – You can call it hyperbole if you want, but if I said 1% or 10% instead of 0% you’d still be arguing a lost cause. There is no chance Griffin ends up in Seattle. I’m not sure how much more clearly I have to make that. We can sit here arguing percentage points and using words like ‘hyperbole’ but it won’t change anything. Seattle won’t be offering three first round picks to a division rival – they will need to trade to STL at #2 to make a deal. STL aren’t necessarily going to be that keen to trade a quarterback of RGIII’s quality to a division rival. And all the while – teams like Cleveland and Washington know that because they have earlier picks and are not in the NFC West, they merely have to match Seattle’s offer to get it done. In fact, the Rams may even be open to taking slightly less from those teams to keep him out of the NFCW. He will leave the board at #2. So as I mentioned before, we can sit here pretending there’s actually a chance of it happening or we can accept that it won’t and focus on realistic possibilities instead. Seattle will address the position this offseason, they’re likely to take an aggressive approach to the position when an opportunity arises. But Griffin is simply unattainable.

    And I’ll tell you what is also hyperbole – your suggestion that P&J have to get a QB in year three or they won’t make it past year five. I’d bet my mortgage on PC and JS being here in year five…. and they won’t draft a R1 quarterback this year.

  21. Drew says:

    Hey Rob,

    After hearing a lot about Ryan Tannehill’s game being more of a mobile quarterback and after watching an interview of him, is it safe to say he is comparable to Jake Locker coming out a year ago?

    What is your take on how they compare and contrast?

    Thanks

  22. Christon says:

    I think Zach Brown would be a nice consolation prize at pick 12. I like Upshaw’s all around game better than Brown’s but Brown definitely has more speed at the position and may be a better fit as long as we resign David Hawethorn to go along with K.J. Wright.

    I’m a big fan of what I have seen of Robert Turbin. Although, at times he dances at the line of scrimmage before he makes his decision to get up the field – he does reminds me of a young “Beast Mode” when he gets out in space.

    As for Burfict…he just went from possible second round pick to no more than a late round flyer. What a head case!

  23. Brad Q says:

    I never said P&J won’t be here in year 5 like you’d wager. I said past year 5 which means 5 is inclusive. 0% predictions on a QB is hyperbole. As far as rbs, I really like D Martin. D Wilson has talent but he’s not a Pete guy. Wilson fumbles too much! The sleeper back that gets little pub and I’d like is Ronnie Hillman from sdsu. All around back that could be a perfect complementary pony for our attack especially on 3rd downs. Remember the name Ronnie Hillman and don’t be shocked if he has NFL success.

  24. Rob says:

    Drew – I think it’s a very good comparison, although I preferred Locker. They both look robotic with their throwing motion and both are more comfortable outside of the pocket throwing on the move. They’re good athletes who can make plays with their legs and they can run all of the naked bootleg stuff a team like Washington uses. Locker had a better arm and more of an X-Factor for me, plus a much higher ceiling. It’s also worth noting Locker played behind one of the worst offensive lines in college football, while Tannehill played behind arguably the best. Locker in some games was sacked nearly as many times as Tannehill’s entire season in 2011. I’m not a Tannehill fan and would avoid him – his decision making and instinct is poor IMO and he has a low, slingy release which has led to tipped passes. He had far too many big mistakes in 2011.

    Christon – I understand why Seahawks fans are underwhelmed by a guy like Zach Brown – the tape isn’t stunning and Aaron Curry is lingering around. However, he does have a lot of positive aspects to his game in coverage and as a sideline-to-sideline player. Teams like a lot of his game. He could blow the roof off the stadium in Indy tomorrow. We’ll wait and see. All I’m saying is Brown is certainly draftable for Seattle in R1.

  25. Rob says:

    Brad – this: “when P&J have to get a QB in yr 3 or they wont make it past year 5″ seems pretty obvious to me that you’re suggesting they have to get a QB in year three or they won’t make it past year five (mainly because that’s what you said). That is just as much hyperbole as me using a percentage to make a point. The difference is – PC and JS’s future will not be determined solely by whether they get a QB this year, and Seattle won’t have any chance to draft Griffin. None at all. Sorry to put it so bluntly, but ‘it is what it is’ as they say.

  26. Norm M says:

    I saw an interview with RGIII. Seattle was the only top 15 team that did NOT interview him. They’re interested.

  27. Brad Q says:

    It’s all good. We have differing views which should be expressed. I think P&J need to make a play for RG3 and will take a shot. Waiting until year 4 of a 5 yr contract with no QB is digging a 6 ft ditch and dropping in a coffin. We don’t see it the same but in todays NFL these are the rules of engagement.

  28. Rob says:

    I will always encourage debate and different opinions on this blog – long may that continue because it’s been nothing but healthy so far. However – the source I’ve used for draft information many times in the past tells me Seattle will not be making any moves to trade up for Robert Griffin III and that a deal wouldn’t be possible anyway. Take that information as you wish but prepare to be disappointed if you’re hoping for RG3 in Seahawks blue.

  29. Brad Q says:

    I guess I put 0% stock in an unidentified draftblog site source in February, sorry. P&J are too smart. They wasted time and draft pick with CW (former 3rd rdr under PRivers tutelege) then wasted another year with TJack (former 2nd rdr with BFavre tutelege) so they know at year 3, it’s time to quit playing games and QB merry go round or there will be a 6 ft ditch waiting for them in renton. Guys like Upshaw and Zbrown are a dime a dozen guys that can be escavated in rds 3 & 4. They arent game changers like an elite QB with RG3 skills. I have 100% more confidence in the smarts of P&J than some unidentified lawn jockey, sorry!

  30. Michael (CLT) says:

    Posted on wrong discussion thread earlier:

    I would hope, if Seattle sees something special in Cousins, they are willing to pay the 2nd round choice. I would be sad if they were passed by on their favorite spot due to principals.

  31. Glen says:

    From listening to senior bowl coverage all week a few weeks ago there was a lot of talk about the athleticism and talent of Zach Brown…as a point of reference most of the hosts are catching their first glimpse of these kids live in Mobile so they have no real basis other than what they see live…they go back and watch film after the game…Pat Kirwan brings up Zach Brown once a week still

  32. Glen says:

    @Bob Q – if you dont want to believe Rob’s “unidentified lawn jockey” maybe you’d believe Scott Enyert who has ties to the Carroll staff, or reports from 2 other “unidentified lawn jocks” who we’re reported by Evan Silva, and pro football talk? You probably don’t want to hear those either…

    I can’t see Schneider giving up the draft capital it would take to get RG3 being that the theme of the franchise is build through the draft, and spend when necessary on young talent…if RG3 ended up not working out (because you know more times than not 1st rd QBs bust as history shows) the franchise would totally be set back with no 1s & 3s for 3 straight years.

  33. Brad Q says:

    Sorry, I don’t believe pre-draft posturing. P&J are already acting coy by not interviewing RG3. Pat Kirwan who is friend’s with Pete said and its documented that in 2010 draft we were going CJ Spiller and then D Morgan. I wrote a bleacher report article (still archived) that if no Eric Berry, we were going LT Trent Williams at #6 and FS Earl Thomas at #14. Kirwan couldnt even nail the positions and he had convos with Pete. I don’t believe P&J will sit back and wait until round 3 to get some QB project or trade for a CPalmer or MSanchez scrub, sorry. P&J will lie about their QB intentions until draft day, so dont be gullible and put any stock into journalist getting paid to churn out articles. Think outside the obvious box as there’s going to be a lot of rumors so stick with the fundamentals of SB champions. Get an elite QB in round 1. Our D can be fine tuned and be SB ready.

  34. Doug says:

    Just for the sake of talking another scenario, let’s explore for just a moment a slight move up the board, not for RG3, who I argee has about a 0% chance of being a Hawk.

    Why is it so inconceivable that the Hawks move up just a few spots, in order to shage either a Coples, Upshaw, or TR. Otherwise, the BPA is a DT, that we don’t need, or a reach. I guess my question would be how much would it cost to move up 2-5 slots, maybe we would need to include this years 4th? Would that be so bad in order to grab a key player of need?

    I see a value that could make a difference that i doubt a 4th rounder will bring, at least it’s a slightly possible scenario compared to moving up for RG3 which is IMHO, not even a slight possibility.

    As far as P&J being on a 5 year leash, I find that funny. I personally am higher on these guys and the team than perhaps ever, and I am a lifer. The Ruskill/Mora era nearly drained the life out of me, and I couldn’t be any higher about the team and it’s front office, and I doubt that I’m the only one who feels like this. P&J have created a new excitement to the team that has the entire nation taking notice. We have respect again. I remember just a few years ago hearing other teams referring to us as “SOFT” , the horror! No more does anyone think that, and nobody writes in a W on their schedule against us.

    This is all due to P&J. The only timeline they have is lunchtime.

  35. Kyle says:

    I saw most of Utah State’s games this year. Robert Turbin is indeed quite good. He ran well against better competition, teams like Auburn and BYU. He has good vision and can hit the hole hard, then accelerate, so should be a good fit in a zone blocking system.

    For me, the question marks about Turbin lie in that his style may fall between the cracks at the pro level. He isn’t a top-speed burner, and despite his physique he wasn’t great at breaking tackles one-on-one. There were too many downs when he was keyed on and he couldn’t escape–no great criticism, but something to watch at the next level. Further, Utah State ran a lot of spread-type shotgun formations, even though they often ran out of them (spread options and the like). I think he’d definitely be serviceable in a ZBS with a good line, so a solid pick to spell Lynch. But I don’t think I’d take him in the second, because that’s starter territory, for me. Someone else might.

    Also keep an eye on Michael Smith, Turbin’s backup at USU, who wasn’t invited to the combine but will probably stick on someone’s squad as a third-down back and special teamer. I’d bet he runs a sub-4.4.

  36. aj says:

    Brock osweiler is horrible not only did he only start 15 games he didn’t win too many of them. Throwing motion is as ugly as kellen Moores. Kirk cousins is the qb to target in round 2. I’m starting to like the idea of michael Floyd at 12. Sidney can’t stay healthy and there is nobody else on this roster who can be that number 1 wr.

  37. AlaskaHawk says:

    I don’t think we need to move up the board for one of the top three DE/OLB types. There are plenty of other first rounders that will come out tomorrow. It may be Mercilus, or Curry or Branch, or someone I’m not even tracking. It’s likely that none of those players will be around in the second when we pick again. I wouldn’t get too hung up on getting any one player.

    As for Zach Brown, I’m not discounting his skills, but one of the major talking points was that we would pick an outside rusher, and that isn’t going to be his primary duty.

  38. AlaskaHawk says:

    The running back evaluations were good. But they do miss one thing. The reason that Marshawn Lynch was great this year was that he was fast, powerful, but most of all he didn’t allow the defense to strip the ball. That is where so many of these guys have troubles.

    I am looking forward to another RB to watch. I saw a lot of skills today, and feel confidant we can pick one in the middle rounds. I would start with anyone that posted a 40 time under 4.5. Yes that’s you Cyrus Gray!!

  39. Kip Earlywine says:

    Before I read all the comments or even finish all the links above, I just wanted to say that my nightmare scenario would be drafting Zach Brown at #12- and Billick’s Mock could very well set that up. I’m hoping he’s way off.

    There are two reasons the idea scares me. The first is that I don’t like Brown. He’s an athlete, not a “football player” in the sense of how incredibly finesse his play style is. He looks like Kelly Jennings playing LB. Just youtube “Zach Brown Missouri 2011″ and you don’t even have to watch it- just read the comments. Even average joe fans can immediately tell something isn’t right. Quite honestly I’m not sure I’d draft Brown before the 4th round, because he’s that risky to me. They are polar opposite players, but I think I actually liked Curry coming out of college more and that says a lot because I had a meltdown when Seattle picked Curry. It was my most hated Seahawks move since the Hutch transition tag.

    Maybe Brown, like many other UNC players, was playing with unacceptable passion because of weak coaching. Maybe Pete Carroll feels that like Coples, Brown is a much better player under his guidance than his college tape shows. Maybe. But its a risk I’d rather not take, especially since it almost certainly won’t fix any of the teams real problems. At least Coples gives you a very real chance to fix the pass rush.

    The second reason Brown at #12 scares me is because I think its a huge reach. I think Brown’s “draft stock” is a lot higher than where he will actually be drafted, and it wouldn’t shock me at all if he slips into round 2. MLB/WLB is not a premium position, and Zach Brown’s tape ranges from depressingly bad to decent but not elite. I think if Seattle truly wants Brown, they should trade down, and trade down far. I also think that they should strongly consider Hightower, possibly after a trade down. He’s almost identical to Upshaw, same team, very similar role (looks great lined up at DE), similar measurables, tough, smart player.

    /rant

  40. Brad Q says:

    I’m extremely confident in P&J, too. Thats precisely why I don’t think they’ll stand pat at #12 and go upshaw or brown. Each passing year not getting an elite QB just burns more of their 5 tenure rope. We’re all excited about the team’s direction but without going for an elite QB makes the rest of their fruitful endeavors worthless. I believe they’ll turn these ripe grapes into a vintage wine and not settle for a box of raisins. Think outside the box and what position wins SB’s. It’s an elite 1st rd QB not linebackers and P&J know this.

  41. Jon says:

    If Richardson made it to our pick that would be awsome, but I don’t see it happening. I think that a trade may be the Seahawks best option of draft day. It would be great to see some contending team do something like what the falcons did last year at our spot. of course it would not be 7 draft picks like last year. But I would be happy to move to the late 20s pick up another 4th this year and next years first. That would set us up for a good shot at a QB early next year. Houston would make a great partner in my mind because I could see them falling off the face of the earth next year if they don’t get some key pieces signed and injury free.

  42. Ryan says:

    I think we all have to get used to the idea, however frustrating, of dreaming about Matt Barkley, Logan Thomas, Tyler Wilson, or Landry Jones next year.

    Boy, did Barkley’s return to school make this a much more frustrating draft season!

  43. Kip Earlywine says:

    Brad Q,

    Rob’s main inside source has been scary accurate to date. If he’s wrong about RG3 it will be the first time he’s been wrong on anything to my knowledge (the one prediction we were potentially wrong about (Palmer) came from a different source). That “lawn jockey” told us that Seattle really liked Berry and Williams in 2010 (so it made a lot of sense when Seattle took Okung and Thomas). He told us the team was about to sign Ruvell Martin a few days before it happened. He broke the Marshawn Lynch trade to us before it happened and Rob covered it on the blog before anyone else knew about it. He also told us that it was very likely the team would draft OL in the 1st round last year if they didn’t have a slam dunk pick at #25.

    But forgetting that, I don’t really see how anyone can think Schneider’s silence indicates a true intention to trade for RG3. First, both John and Pete have not been secretive types… ever. They tend to be VERY open about their stated goals and intentions well before the draft. I’m struggling to think of even one single time they willingly deceived us all to make a big move. As far as what Kirwan said, who’s to say he wasn’t just guessing? Or (more likely,) that he was feeding disinformation to help a friend?

    Finally, you seem to be forgetting that the Rams own the #2 pick, and that they already have multiple suitors who are going to offer a mountain of draft picks. Even if Schneider desperately wanted RG3 and was willing to do anything to get him, do you honestly think he’d have any chance whatsoever getting him from the Rams- especially when the Rams will likely receive huge offers from teams outside their division? That’s why Schneider didn’t interview. He’s at the combine and he has a lot to do. There’s no reason to waste his precious time doing something that has a 0.000000% chance of ever reaching fruition.

  44. Hawkfan says:

    Rob,

    Do you think there is a chance that the Seahawks could take Nick Perry with the 12th pick? I saw his weight, arm length, and bench press from the combine, and I said “damn”. We all know he is quick but it will be interesting so see how he runs and moves with the added weight. If he moves well what do you think this will do to his draft stock? Could his name come up with Coples, Ingram, and Upshaw then? Either way I hope the Seahawks go DE in the first and wait for later to get a LB (maybe more than one?). Also another player that I am interested in is Keenan Robinson from Texas. Do you think Robinson would fit our scheme? Thanks for your time and keep up the good work!

  45. Ryan says:

    Personally, I was holding out hope Griffin would fall to #3, so we’d have a chance. But it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen. Damn shame.

    It is unfortunate how the QB scenario has landed this draft season. It’s going to put extreme pressure on the position in next year’s draft, because it’s unthinkable to leave the 2013 draft without one (though, of course, we thought that this year). Get ready for another year of quarterback profiles!

  46. Turp says:

    RG3 will not be a Seahawk. The Rams will never trade with the Hawks for the 2nd pick; neither will the Hawks pay the exorbitant price the Rams would ask them for.

    I agree Ryan – next year will be another year of QB profiles. I do think we draft our next backup QB in the later rounds this year. I’d be surprised if Portis ever moved up from #3 on the depth chart.

  47. Belgaron says:

    Seeing as how the Seahawks have found great starters from trades (Lynch & Clemons), other team’s practice squads (Giacomini), Canada (Browner), the scrap heap (BMW), 2nd day draft picks (Sherman), big name recruiting and contracts (Rice & Miller), position changes (Red), and undrafted players (Baldwin) isn’t it safe to say that Seahawks could potentially outperform other organizations even if they overpay for RGIII with high draft picks?

    I don’t think Fisher would be afraid to trade RGIII to Seahawks if they outbid the Redskins. He is trying to get back to respectability quickly and would not be made of stone if someone backs a truck full of high draft picks up to his door.

    They could still pick up some great players in free agency and make sure their needs/goals are covered before they would have to sign on the dotted line for a blockbuster deal. The Rams will not be finalizing that deal until the last second.

    Maybe the ‘Hawks are just being true to their word of considering every avenue for improving the team, or maybe they just want to push up the price tag for the Redskins, but I’m not surprised by the reports that they are the mystery team that is in the mix because of the reasons cited above. At the end of the day Pete and Schneider want to compete and if they believe this kind of deal would put them over the top, I could think of worse things to complain about than overpaying for that kind of talent at the most important position on the team. They could survive just fine without the picks, the real risk is injury because Lloyds of London can’t reimburse lost picks.

  48. pqlqi says:

    I think the most likely scenario with STL and MIN is that there is a three team deal with whoever wants RGIII. STL moves back to 3 for Kalil for an extra 2nd round pick, MIN moves back to 4-8 and gets either a late 1st rounder this year (CLE, CIN), or a 1st rounder next year and a couple mid rounders this year (3&4 from WASH).

    Most likely scenarios, CLE picks RGIII at 2, STL picks Kalil at 3, MIN picks Janoris at 4. MIN gets pick 21 from CLE, STL gets 2nd and 3rd rounders from cleveland. Or WAS picks RGIII at 2, STL picks Kalil at 3, Min picks at WAS spot with a 4th rounder this year and the 1st rounder next year while STL gets 2nd and 3rd round picks this year. Both of these scenarios make sense for STL and MIN, STL not giving up anything significant and getting a few extra early picks, and MIN getting appropriate compensation.

  49. OZ says:

    It’s as simple as this, can Leroy Hill cover Vernon Davis? No. Could Zack Brown? I think so… I’ll be watching the LB’s closely today.

  50. Rob says:

    Brad Q – Here’s an example of some of the work my ‘lawn jock’ has provided:

    http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/39523190/ns/sports-player_news/

    I can’t make you believe what I’m telling you – but you WILL be disappointed on April 26th. The Seahawks are not going to trade up for Robert Griffin III.

    Hawkfan – I would be surprised. He’s helping his stock so far at the combine, but the tape didn’t blow me away. I still think he’ll go in the late first, early second. Robinson is a player we need to watch in Monday’s work outs alongside your Zach Brown’s and Sean Spence’s.

    Belgaron – Pete and John realise a deal with STL is nigh on impossible and that other teams – such as Cleveland – have much more ammo to make a move. Wishing for Griffin will be – unfortunately – the same as wishing to win the lottery when you never buy a ticket.

  51. Phil says:

    If it turns out that Upshaw/Ingram/Coples are gone before we pick at #12, then I’d rather have us try to trade back instead of reaching for one of the other edge rushers.

    But, I’m still curious about what the Redskins or the Dolphins would give us for our pick at #12 (so they could package the #12 with whatever else they are willing to gamble to trade to St. Louis for the #2 pick). In my opinion, this scenario — trying to trade our 2012 first round pick for, say, a 2013 first round pick plus a later round 2012 pick — is even more important to explore if the guys we wanted to use our first round pick on are likely to be gone by pick #12.

  52. Rugby Lock says:

    If Billick’s draft comes to fruition and Richardson is also gone then the Hawks should trade down… Zach Brown at 12 is way too high.

  53. Rob says:

    I don’t see the point in that Phil – essentially just passing over your first rounder until next year. You’d have to be really down on this class to do that, it’s just a delaying tactic really. You’re also gambling on the pick being as high as #12. Teams who trade R1’s for next year’s 1’s usually do it in the late 20’s with team’s picking early in R2, knowing there’s a good chance they’ll get a much improved pick in 12 months.

  54. Belgaron says:

    While I did conclude that RGIII would be the best fit months ago for what the ‘Hawks are seeking, I had already concluded that the organization would not be willing to pay the price it would take, and they ultimately will probably drop out.

    My thoughts here are not wishful thinking but a reaction to the news. It could change many more times between now and the draft but the early reports are that Cleveland has not shown any interest in competing for the deal, the Redskins are all in, the Dolphins are in and there is a third “mystery team” that is reportedly the Seahawks.

    Everybody knows that even if they continue to be part of the discussion it is still a long shot but it is still a possibility until they drop out.

    This also means they are not as convinced about other QB options and they feel they can get one of the free agent edge rushers like Mario, Mathis, or Avril.

  55. Rob says:

    I can categorically tell you that isn’t the case Belgaron. They are not any mystery team and won’t be looking at any bumper deal to get up. They do like several QB options in this draft but are unlikely to attack the position early. They won’t be big spenders in FA – last year will not be repeated and they won’t be pursuing the Mario Williams’ out there etc. They want to draft a pass rusher in round one.

  56. Me Ne Frego says:

    Who cares how many DTs the Hawks have, none of them are elite. The Giants have elite DEs and that never stops them from drafting more of them early in the draft. Take the BPA, the Packers took an RT two straight years in the 1st round, and in the 2nd round they took Cobb even though they didn’t need a WR.

  57. AlaskaHawk says:

    Exactly- I think there will be plenty of edge rushers available at 12. Billichick is just one mock among many. I can point to a dozen others that show plenty of choices. Even if you believed him, why not pick Trent Richardson or the 2nd receiver on the board. They would be game changers.

  58. Jarhead says:

    I thought I was sneaky with my excitement about Bob Turbin. Looks like Rob is too crafty to sneak anything past him. Haha But who needs Martin in the 2nd when we can get a faster more agile version in Round 4. And Cousins has shown he is not athletic enough be a QB in this system. There are several less touted QBs that showed better athletic potential, and we don’t need another statue back in the pocket. Pass on Cousins

  59. AlaskaHawk says:

    I would take Cousins in the 4th or Russell in the 6th. My perfect draft:
    DE
    LB or CB or WR
    RB (only because there are so many)
    Cousins
    5th sent to Buffalo
    Finish with one OL and one more defensive player

  60. Wes says:

    Under Billick’s scenario, if Richardson goes to KC, I would not be surprised at all if the Hawks drafted Michael Floyd. Sidney Rice just had surgery on both shoulders, and has not shown anything indicating he will ever stay reliably healthy. BMW may not even make the team next year, given how poorly he played and his injury, and there is no one else in the WR group on the team who is a game changer.

    Floyd has great measurables and the production, but some seemingly major off field issues. But I think P&J would be willing to take a chance on him because he could really be that “touchdown maker” they want. And, under the Billick draft scenario, what else are they going to do anyway? He’d be a much better value than Zach Brown

  61. Brad Q says:

    Excellent analysis, Belgaron! You delineated the success of P&J building this team outside the 1st rd. Kudos to you! P&J have found talent in numerous ways at every position except QB. P&J know this. They’re too smart not to see this. Fantastic recap by you!

  62. Misfit74 says:

    The only scenario I can figure that would land us the #2 QB in this draft is for the Rams to stay put and draft Kahlil, given that there’s no sure-fire, consensus #2 OT they could be sure to land if they dropped down to #4 (Browns). Then, the Vikings could move down (likely to draft a WR, CB, or MLB) in a deal with Seattle, affording the opportunity to draft Griffin.

    And, recent rumblings of the Browns being confused about the idea of drafting up into the Rams’ spot could open things up. If RGIII somehow made it to #3, I think it’s conceivable.

    I don’t really see it likely, but I also don’t count on anyone knowing with certainty at this stage of the game – regardless of how well-informed; what sources, or what have you. We’re all guessing, but then that’s part of the fun. ;)

  63. Brad Q says:

    It’s all good, Rob. I just found it hyperbole to say 0% chance when we have a horse in the race. I think 10-15% and when one of the teams moves for Flynn (cleve, miami, skins) those odds rise. I’m not calling some lock here but I expect to hear they made a serious attempt to move up for RG3. I’m surprised you really believe they stand pat and wait until year 4 when it will be QB panic at Hawk hq to go big at the QB position. Now that makes 0% sense. P&J will lie and keep their QB desires under wrap. Same when Pete said Curry was improving and was traded 1 month later. We’ll see how this plays out and their posturing because there will be plenty of smokescreens.

  64. MeatWad says:

    Brad Q-RGIII would be fantastic to see sporting Hawks blue, but it is not going to happen.
    For many reasons, many, many reasons. We can start with who holds the number 2 pick, Rams. We can then go to what draft position the Hawks sit at, 12. Then we can go to how much hype RGIII has and his combine times and the fact he won the Heisman. Then we can go to what can the Hawks give up? Draft picks. How many? Many. Then all we have to do is think about the teams also in need for improvement at that position (Could include almost every team really), Vikings, Skins, Browns, Dolphins, and maybe even add Jags and Bills to the mix. Then you can look at who is drafting ahead of the Hawks, all of them. The team needs more than just a QB and those draft picks are highly valued by Pete and John. They want to build through the draft. Giving away years of picks is not the move they want to make. The Browns are in the best position to move up, and should. Hawks cannot compete with the Browns in picks.

  65. Brad Q says:

    One final thought before we put this to rest and talk pass rush and running backs (like RHillman as sleeper and DMartin), P&J will keep their QB plans under wrap until final moments because they don’t want to drive up the price too early for STL’s benefit. It’s all about low profilin’ n stylin when in multiple team negotiations. Solid discussion here!

  66. Phil says:

    Rob – The reason I see some merit in EXPLORING what the Redskins/Dolphins would be willing to give us for this year’s first rounder is that we might be pleasantly surprised to find out how generous they are. (On yesterday’s telecast from the combine, Michael Lombardi reported that the Redskins were his pick to win the bidding war for RGIII and I think he said that their bid was purported to involve mutiple first round picks — as many as 3 — plus some player trades, too). As you know, any team bidding for RGIII needs to be able to put together a package that is better than what Cleveland is likely to offer. Packaging either the Redskins/Dolphins 2012 first round picks ( #s 6 and 8, respectively) with our #12, might allow either of those teams to trump the Cleveland offer of #4 and #22. Plus, an offer that involves multiple 2012 first round picks is likely to trump an offer that involves first round picks in future years.

    Where I’m headed with this is that my favorite “solution” to the ongoing puzzle of who will be the Seahawks’ QB of the future is Matt Barkley. But, unless we have multiple first round picks next year, I think we will have a tough time moving up to get him. So, if we could get an extra 2013 first rounder from the Redskins/Dolphins plus, say a 2nd and a 3rd round pick this year, I’d take it. Especially if it is starting to look like Upshaw/Ingram/Coples are gone before our pick at #12.

    I agree that there is no way that we could land RGIII even if we wanted to, but I think there’s a chance that we can benefit from the feeding frenzy that seems to be building and I think it’s worth exploring what we might get from the teams that are in the hunt.

  67. Rob says:

    Perhaps, Phil – but the Seahawks are following quite a structured plan here. They believe the situation gives them a chance to solve another key need – pass rush – at #12 and they want to take it so that by the next draft in 2013 they can feel very confident about the overall defense and target the position we all hope they will solve very soon. I don’t think they will move up or down – they will almost certainly have a shot at Coples, Upshaw and Ingram. With that pass rusher in the stable, they can feel extremely happy about the DEF.

    You can’t plan too far ahead and Barkley – IMO – will not require quite the loaded treasure chest some believe. But that’s for 12 months time, right now the focus is on the pass rush and we will see that play out over the next two months.

  68. Dave says:

    Hey Brad Q. I think you should move to either Indy, Cleveland, or the other Washington if you want to see Griffin play so bad cause that’s where he’s gonna end up. An eleven year old could tell you that. Can we stop this lame ass Griffin discussion? Its getting old…

  69. Brad Q says:

    We’ll see, Dave. I have directv w short cuts so I’ll be able to watch RG3 every week. I don’t see an edge rusher at #12 unless it’s Coples because neither Upshaw nor Ingram fit our scheme. Value and need options will be limited at #12. Fans need to get less excited by 40 times and focus on 3 cone and 20sh as those expose a players hips. Relax guy and worry less about my theories and delineate your own. thx!

  70. Rob says:

    Ingram and Upshaw are two of Seattle’s top targets – so I think it’s fair to say they ‘fit’ the scheme. It’s a hybrid defense – they will use a lot of 4-3 and 3-4 looks.

  71. Brad Q says:

    Where (positionally) do you see Upshaw and Ingram fitting into our scheme? The only combine drills I find of value are the 3 cone & 20 sh for any edge player. It was a paramount reason I was in the 1% anti-curry selection of 2009. AC was a straight 40 guy with stiff hips and reason I liked Cushing, Mathews and Lauranitis more than AC at lb where they showed more lateral fluidity and smoked AC in those drills while being just as productive on game film. My pick was Orakpo with write up. Did anyone catch those drills and times for Upshaw and Ingram? Thanks for posting those recaps. 40 times are overrated but GM’s still fall for the banana in the tail pipe 40 yd dash.

  72. Rob says:

    Ingram had a 6.83 3-cone which was easily the highest among DE’s. I’m trying to find Upshaw’s – but he didn’t do certain drills and is waiting until his pro-day. There role will be to line up in different areas, not take away a LT every down – rather try and find situations to exploit. A bit like Aldon Smith did in San Francisco last year. Upshaw and Ingram will dip inside, they’ll blitz, they’ll hang off the edge. I expect the Seahawks to continue with their hybrid DEF but use more 3-4 looks affording for them to both play OLB, but also DE in the 4-3 sets.

  73. Brad Q says:

    S Muench echoed my sentiments on why Upshaw isnt a hawk scheme fit. He doesnt have the flexible hips to play in space and would now be exclusively pigeon holed to play on the strong side LOS. Upshaw cant cover these new breed of tight ends and to move him to 5 tech with only a bull rush and no turn the corner speed makes him a good player but not that impact guy we need from our defense. Upshaw is better suited for a strict 3-4 scheme. Ingram and his short arms falls into that same category. At #12, we need a game changing rush guy, not a good run defender on the strong side. Believe me or not but i’m warning you neither fits our scheme and it would be another curry mistake. Coples is the guy for the hawks but likely wont be there. Take this to the bank! :-)