Scouting Comine: Day Four review

February 23rd, 2013 | Written by Rob Staton

Today the defensive linemen and linebackers were weighed and measured, while the offensive linemen and tight ends ran drills.

Yesterday Kip highlighted an article that discussed Bill Walsh’s ‘ideal defensive tackle’. As we all know by now, Walsh and Pete Carroll are closely connected. The listed height and weight of Walsh’s ideal interior lineman was 6-2 and 290lbs. Sheldon Richardson is 6-2 and 294lbs officially. Once again, I refer to Kip:

I think Richardson will probably go in the top 14 picks- I just can’t see him getting past Carolina barring a disaster.  Richardson stands so far ahead of his peers at collapsing the pocket that I’d say he’s worth trading up for, even though it will mean losing picks in a draft where a 2nd rounder feels an awful lot like a 1st.

Would it be expensive? Sure. Is it likely? Probably not. But I dare anyone to tell me they wouldn’t be excited about seeing Sheldon Richardson lining up in Seattle’s defensive line for the next few years.

Defensive lineman – height, weight, arm length

Ziggy Ansah – 6-5, 271lbs, 35.18′ arms

Armonty Bryant – 6-4, 263lbs, 35.68′ arms

Tank Carradine – 6-4, 276lbs, 34.68′ arms

Quinton Dial – 6-5, 318lbs, 34.48′ arms

Sharrif Floyd – 6-3, 297lbs, 31.68′ arms

Johnathan Hankins – 6-3, 320lbs, 33.08′ arms

Jordan Hill – 6-1, 303lbs, 33.48′ arms

Montori Hughes – 6-4, 329lbs, 32.58′ arms

Margus Hunt – 6-8, 277lbs, 33.68′ arms

John Jenkins – 6-4, 359lbs, 34.08′ arms

Datone Jones – 6-4, 283lbs, 32.68′ arms

Dion Jordan – 6-6, 248lbs, 33.78′ arms

Corey Lemonier – 6-3, 255lbs, 34.48′ arms

Bennie Logan – 6-2, 309lbs, 34.08′ arms

Star Lotulelei – 6-3, 311lbs, 33.58′ arms

Barkevious Mingo – 6-4, 241lbs, 33.68′ arms

Alex Okafor – 6-5, 264lbs, 33.78′ arms

Kawann Short – 6-3, 299lbs, 34.68′ arms

Bjoern Werner – 6-3, 266lbs, 33.28′ arms

Brandon Williams – 6-1, 335lbs, 32.58′ arms

Jesse Williams – 6-3, 323lbs, 32.08′ arms

Sylvester Williams – 6-3, 313lbs, 33.48′ arms

Linebackers – height, weight

Arthur Brown – 6-0. 241lbs

Zaviar Gooden – 6-1, 234lbs

Khaseem Greene – 6-1, 241lbs

Jarvis Jones – 6-2, 245lbs

Kevin Minter – 6-0, 246lbs

Alec Ogletree – 6-2, 242lbs

Manti Te’o – 6-1, 241lbs

If I’ve missed any players out that you want to check up on, Walter Football has the full listings here.

Kawann Short had the most eye-catching weight — he certainly didn’t look like a 299lbs defensive tackle on tape. He appears to be slimming down to fit into a more orthodox three-technique role. He won’t do drills tomorrow due to injury.

It was good to see Dion Jordan close to 250lbs after some speculation he’d played the 2012 season at closer to 230lbs. I think as the draft process continues, he’ll develop into a top-five shoe-in. Incredible upside. He should test well tomorrow.

Sharrif Floyd had considerably shorter arms than the other defensive linemen — 31.68 inches to be exact. As a comparison, that’s three inches shorter than Kawann Short. None of the lineman listed above had arms shorter than 32 inches in length apart from Floyd. This could be an issue when he tries to disengage and gain leverage. He wasn’t a great pass rusher at Florida.

Oklahoma tackle puts on a clinic, Fluker struggles

Lane Johnson can feel pretty good about his time in Indianapolis. He ran an impressive 4.72 today, managed 28 reps on the bench press despite +35 inch arms and overall looked the part of a franchise left tackle. Any team that misses out on Eric Fisher and Luke Joeckel can feel very comfortable about Johnson as the fall back.

It’s pretty pointless concentrating too much on offensive line forty times on the whole. None of the other tackles or guards got close to Johnson, apart from Arkansas Pine-Bluff’s Terron Armstead who managed a 4.71.

Looking back at the footage of today’s drills, D.J. Fluker continues to concern me. He ran a 5.35 and a 5.32 but generally looked sloppy in the mobility drills despite losing 16lbs since the Senior Bowl. He’s managed to generate some hype since the SEC Championship game where he dominated Georgia’s defensive line. I’m not convinced it was totally warranted. He’s still a bog standard right tackle who’ll be better off moving inside to guard — at least in my opinion. Watching him struggle to get around today just highlights how much he’s going to struggle defending the edge — something that flashed on tape time and time again. He doesn’t play well against speed. He’ll be challenged by speed every week in the NFL and I’d be worried about that.

Personally, I wouldn’t want to take a guy who might work out at right tackle in round one. If I’m drafting him that early, I have to believe he can be an all-pro guard. Personally, I’d probably rather draft Larry Warford to fill that role. I have a real dislike for drafting right tackles in round one. Seattle’s experience with James Carpenter being a classic example. I was a big fan of Carpenter in college, much more so than Fluker. But the Seahawks drafted Carpenter, were forced to kick him inside when he struggled at tackle and then replaced him with a former 5th round pick.

You don’t need to spend big on a right tackle. And Fluker isn’t good enough to be the exception. I hope he’s off the board by #25, because it means a better player will be available for the Seahawks.

Speaking of Warford, he ran an epic 5.53 and a 5.68 today. Part of me hoped that was a shirtless attempt, just for old times sake. Chance Warmack wasn’t much better at 5.55 and 5.53 — not that it matters in the slightest. Warmack will be a fantastic guard at the next level.

Tony Pauline believed Jonathan Cooper outperformed Warmack, while Eric Fisher was also getting the better of Luke Joeckel:

I thought Cooper had a fantastic work out today and if he gets out of the top fifteen, whoever drafts him is getting a steal. He can probably play either of the guard positions or center. Teams value the center position strongly these days, almost as much as left tackle. That could give him an edge versus Warmack.

Tight ends fail to impress

I thought it was a bitterly disappointing day for the tight ends in the forty yard dash. None of them ran as fast as expected. Zach Ertz only managed a 4.76, Gavin Escobar a 4.84, Jordan Reed a 4.72 and Tyler Eifert a 4.68. In the last three years, thirteen tight ends have run faster than Eifert who was among the quickest this year. Lane Johnson at 303lbs ran faster than Ertz and Escobar and matched Jordan Reed’s time. Take that in for a moment. Can Johnson catch?

I doubt the lousy times will hurt the tight ends too much, but what it won’t do is vault any of them into the top half of round one. If Reed managed a time in the 4.5′s he could’ve become a legit first round option. He runs in the 4.7′s and probably settles somewhere in rounds two or three. Had Ertz managed a 4.5, he could’ve been a lock for the top-20. He might still go in that range given his career at Stanford and solid tape. Eifert remains firmly in the round two range for me.

What about Escobar? His stock seemed to be trending upwards in a big way and I had him in round one recently. However, a 4.84 isn’t going to get anyone out of their seat. He’s a dynamic, big target. But he’s clearly not an insane athlete. His best asset is his hands.

Eifert looked the most athletic in terms of physical appearance and I thought Ertz looked a little stiff in drills. Reed overall didn’t show the kind of explosive athleticism I expected to see. And while physically he compares to Aaron Hernandez, I wouldn’t compare the two players based on tape.

Arkansas’ Chris Gragg ran a 4.50. Kudos for him. He’s talented but suffered (like everyone) due to the Razorbacks’ decision to take a year off from taking football seriously in 2012. Vance McDonald managed a 4.69 which is particularly ‘meh’ considering he doesn’t look comfortable catching a football on tape.

You can see all of today’s forty yard dash times by clicking here.

You can watch a full recap of the days drills by clicking here.

Injury news

Another day, another withdrawal. This time Alex Okafor has decided not to run a slow time… errr… I mean rest a hip flexor by not working out. Dallas Thomas will also be absent with a torn labrum — an injury that kept him out of the Senior Bowl.

There are also concerns over Arthur Brown’s shoulder injury that kept him from competing in Mobile. He was a last minute withdrawal from the Senior Bowl and didn’t tell anyone in advance that he was hurt. It’s unclear whether he’ll do drills tomorrow.

Jarvis Jones conducted a press conference discussing his spinal stenosis issue. He won’t work out at the combine, a decision which puts a lot of pressure on his pro-day. Just a hunch, but I can’t see Jones being a first round pick at this stage. Too much risk, and he’s clearly hiding by not testing in Indianapolis.


 

Day four links

Danny Kelly notes that Markus Wheaton managed 20 reps of the bench press at 5-11 and 189lbs. In other words, nearly as many as massive lineman Travis Frederick. Wheaton is incredibly underrated. Just like DeAndre Hopkins and Steadman Bailey. We’ll see if size matters in April.

Mike Mayock gives his thoughts on the first day of drills.

Manti Te’o faced the media today. I wonder what they asked him about?

Tomorrow I’ll be live blogging throughout the defensive lineman/linebacker drills. Hope to see you there.

One final note — who allowed Under Armour to dress this year’s prospects like they’re going to a 90′s rave in their underwear?

74 Responses to “Scouting Comine: Day Four review”

  1. kevin mullen says:

    Terron Armstead, 306lb OLineman, just ran a 4.65 40yd dash. I say we sign him up for our WILL!!!

    I’m kidding, but pretty impressive, also benched 31 times.

  2. Cysco says:

    I’m actually looking forward to the kickers. Specifically Dustin Hopkins. I want that kid bombing 50+ yd fgs for us next season.

  3. John says:

    Fluker’s footwork is TERRIBLE. He is way to stiff. I really believe he’s a better guard prospect than a OT. Slow feet, mediocre strength. Has long arms but everything else just points to OG.

    • JW says:

      yep. Supposedly he can use his arms to compensate for his footwork, but I don’t see spending a high draft choice to find out. Teams will be well served to draft him as a guard and if he can play outside treat it as gravy.

      • RW3 says:

        I’m not riding super hot on Fluker currently. If we could get him with value in the second round I’d be happy, but I don’t think I’d want him in in the First round at all. His problem is that his arms won’t be able to compensate for everything enough for him to be effective against the likes of aldon smith and Chris Clemons. Unfortunately, these are the type of players we have to face to hold that Lombardi trophy next year! We need to use our first rounder on a player with an effective role rather than a fifth guard in our rotation. While I would love a deep burner, I’m starting to like deandre Hopkins with out pick! If he is basically where all the other receivers are at physically, why not take him over having to gamble and trade up for a cordarrelle Patterson who could very well just be a kick returner!

  4. Kenny Sloth says:

    Wow. Now everyone’s going to be begging for Terron Armstead. I think Lane Johnson is the total package. He also ran a blazing 40 had a great bench press and his tape is magnficent. I wouldn’t be surprised if he went top 15.

    • TWTS says:

      I think the top 3 tackles could all go in the top 11 picks. I dont see a huge difference between the top tackles, interior linemen, tight ends and safeties.

  5. Eric says:

    TE thoughts:

    Chris Gragg (Ark) has serious speed/quickness – 40yds – 4.44s / 10yd split – 1.53s

    Vance McDonald (Rice) not a bad 40 time at 4.63, but it’s his physical stats that impress me:
    6’4″, 267lbs, 34 3/8″ arms, 10 1/8″ hands

    Disappointed with Escobar’s lack of speed.

    Also not real high on Jordan Reed. I know he can make plays, and 4.62 isn’t a bad 40 time, but he’s a bit undersized for the position. More like a big, physical WR, if only he were quicker. Definitely a versatile player, but not the best Joker TE.

    • Snoop Dogg says:

      Chris cragg = Aaron Hernandez

      Vance McDonald = gronkowski

      From a measurable standpoint

    • You can watch Gragg on youtube. If you didn’t see him line up you would never know he’s a TE, looks like a WR. I am reasonably sure that he added weight the last couple months just to get up to 244- he didn’t play at that. Good blocker, great athlete. Seems like a player that is up our alley- teams might put the tweener label on him, but he did just run a 4.44 at 244 pounds, not many WRs can do that, let alone TEs. Seattle likes great athletes without defined positions.

      • SunPathPaul says:

        It was fun watching the TE’s. As they kept saying Ertz and Eifert are neck and neck. Albeit now I kinda prefer Eifert. He is taller, faster, with longer arms. He may not catch ‘quite as naturally’ as Ertz, but he much stronger and caught well himself. Now that is actually a harder choice I believe for teams.

        Gragg surprised me. Have been taking notes, but never heard or saw his name. He looked pretty darn good.
        Vance McDonald looks a bit stiff, but he also looks the part of a bruising Seattle TE. He just looks big and kinda mean. Escobar and Reed in my mind dropped off our boards maybe. They aren’t as big, slower, didn’t look quite as natural.

        Looks like if we want a TE, there is some good 3-4 round depth there.

        • Eifert is very well rounded TE that is worthy of a fringe first round grade, but it’s his jump ball skills that are so special. No knock on Ertz but I rate Eifert slightly higher just because I think his ability on jump balls is often undefendable, and Seattle has been searching for someone with that kind of skillset lately.

      • Eric says:

        Thanks Kip, I’ll check out his film. Aside from the 40, he looked pretty good in the gauntlet drill – not as good as the 3 E’s, but certainly respectable. And of course there’s that 4.44 40.

        Speaking of the gauntlet and the 3 E’s, Escobar may not be that fast, but he ran the field well, had the best hands and looked like the most natural receiver in the group. A talented prospect worthy of a 2nd rd pick for sure – but is he this Team’s biggest need at that point in the draft if he’s available? What say you?

        If not, I like Gragg in the 4th rd or McDonald in the 5th, but after his 40, Gragg may be off the board by then.

        Finally, I was also impressed enough with Matt Furstenburg (UMD) to keep an eye on him in the late rounds, especially if we miss out on any of the above.

        • Snoop Dogg says:

          I would be willing to take Vance and cragg both in the bottom of the second or mid third rounds! They have the most upside to be game changing players!

          • Rob Staton says:

            Vance needs to learn how to catch a football properly first.

            • SunPathPaul says:

              How about Gragg Rob? Never heard of him…looked dynamic and fast, good hands…4thR?5thR?

              • Rob Staton says:

                Could go in that range. Looked sharp in patches for Arkansas. Guy can play. Problem is, Arkansas were just so shambolic in 2012 it’s hard to judge anyone on that team. He’s had durability issues. He’s not got a robust frame. But he can catch and he’s athletic.

  6. williambryan says:

    Curious as to how much impact Jordans injury/surgery will have on his draft stock

  7. Zach says:

    Must say Eifert is back on top for me.

    • Zach says:

      Eifert jumps 5 inches more than Ertz.

      • SunPathPaul says:

        I have to agree. All the press had me thinking Ertz was more polished, but on this day, it didn’t appear so. Eifert is a beast, and the biggest difference I think to Seattle is the Arm length difference matched with the speed…

        • Rob Staton says:

          I wouldn’t necessarily call Eifert a ‘beast’. He’s pretty finesse.

          • SunPathPaul says:

            Sorry, I just meant in the kinda size-raduis catch-zone way… Vance looked more the ‘mentality of a beast’, as far as his demeanor. But I can’t tell from New Mexico over a streaming video…

            Which did you appreciate the most, purely? Then for Seattle the most??

            • Rob Staton says:

              Out of the TE’s I thought Escobar impressed the most… big frame, wasn’t too fussed with the 4.8. Loved the way he caught the ball away from his body and just absorbed the ball. Eifert was the most athletic but didn’t look ‘explosive’. Ertz was solid, not flashy. Wanted to see a bit more flash there. Reed was a major disappointment… just ‘meh’.

              • SunPathPaul says:

                Agreed , Reed was ‘eh’. Gavin does catch extremely well. Like Mayock noticed, the ball Never gets even close to his body. The 4.8 was to me just surprising… He looked faster on tape.
                But hey, the game is played on the field with pads, not with digital timers and spandex! LOL

              • A. Simmons says:

                Escobar with Wilson dropping touch passes to those soft hands does seem like a good combination. Wouldn’t mind seeing Escobar in round 2.

      • Michael says:

        Can I say one thing? And I say this with an unblemished record of staunch heterosexuality… Eifert was definitely tops in the schlong department. Seriously, is a pair of actual shorts really gonna slow these guys down that much? Do we have to watch a bunch of pork swords floppin’ around in slow motion?

  8. Colin says:

    Dion Jordan to miss 3-4 months with shoulder surgery. That is going to put a few teams off, I’m sure.

  9. Kenny Sloth says:

    Ertz should still be at the top of your TE boards. He’s a MUCH better blocker and it’s not even close. I’m sure nfl gm’s would agree. these combine times don’t change much for most FO’s

    • Colin says:

      I’ll never understand why people get so caught up in 40 times and combine #’s. The Notre Dame hype is helping him, as well as T’eo.

      • Zach says:

        You can’t teach Ertz to jump 5 more inches to match Eifert or run as fast either. You CAN teach Eifert to block better.

        • Colin says:

          It should be noted that Ertz played in a pro-style offense and Eifert played in a notoriously simple offense at ND. The learning curve might be pretty steep.

          And I disagree about the blocking. It’s something you have, or you don’t. I’m not sure he’ll develop into a really good blocking TE like Ertz; decent may have to be good enough if you take him.

          • Zach says:

            Isn’t Eifert more of the joker type we’re looking for though? Ertz seems more of the Miller type….good blocker, average speed. Eifert for me but to each his own.

            • Rob Staton says:

              Eifert looked the most athletic out of the big name tight ends. Not a fantastic forty though given he was a lot learner and less bulkier. Escobar, despite his sloppy time, just looks like he swallows every catch on tape. He excites me.

    • Bobby Cink says:

      Combine times don’t necessarily change a FO’s opinion on a prospect, but often times it encourages them to go back and look at the tape.

  10. Zach says:

    Notice how PC&JS were down on the field when the TEs were doing there drills.

  11. Zach says:

    Even though Escobar ran a slow 40 he doesn’t play slow in games plus has awesome hands. Best hands out of them all.

    • Kenny Sloth says:

      He doesn’t look very fast… especially when you consider he’s playing against lower level competition.. but he may have the best hands in the class. Looks very smooth catching.

  12. jake says:

    Want one of the two receivers, Cordelle Patterson or Deandre Hopkins. Give Seahawks an elite WR corp, if they can’t get a premier pass rusher in round 1.

  13. Zach says:

    Where are the kickers?

    • SunPathPaul says:

      Didn’t they go first today? The ‘specialist’? One of the commentators (I tuned in half way) said something about them “booting it all over the place”? I just went to NFL.com – the draft part and they list his combine info, so I guess they went first today. ST – Special Teams.

      Kickers and Punters are so unappreciated that the website TOTALLY ignores their presence today!?!! LOL

      I would love 2 get Dustin Hopkins and let Haushka go. Longer range WITH accuracy, and a lot cheaper…
      I mean this guys FIRST collegiate FG was a 52 yarder… Sweet…

  14. MJ says:

    Ah the combine…

    TEs massively disappointed today. Expected much better athleticism from the group as a whole. It’s hard to get excited about Eifert’s 4.68 40. Ertz looks like a guy who kept reading about how’d he underwhelm. Escobar, completely shocked he ran in the 4.8s. His hands are amazing though. Reed looked like a pod person. His smoothness was MIA.

    For me, the big winner today was Dion Sims. Not a ton of pub, but ran a great time for being a monster. Showed nice athleticism too. Granted, this is like being the slimmest kid at fat camp.

    I went from thinking possibly 3 TEs in the 1st, but now I’m thinking the first TE off the board might not happen til mid round 2. Not to over react to the spandex olympics, but what an extremely meh day for these guys.

  15. Michael says:

    Is there anything in this draft more ridiculous than Malliciah Goodman’s 36.38” arms?

  16. Chris says:

    Nick Kasa anyone?

    Nearly matched Eifert’s official 40 time, but weights 19 lbs more.

    Checked out some youtube. Looks like a solid blocker and had some nice grabs downfield. Used to be a DE apparently though, and does seem on the raw side.

    • Chris says:

      As a later round pick obviously …

      Not really a match for the Hawks though, as it seems they’d probably be looking for more of a pure Joker. The 40 times for TEs this year pretty much sucked though, maybe not much of a joker class.

  17. Stuart says:

    Is it possible that Floyd could slide to 25 with such short arms? Is it possible Eifert could be there for us in R-2? That is mighty impressive about Wheaton. At this point I might be okay trading out of the first and getting an extra 2nd and 3rd…

    • Rob Staton says:

      The short arms shouldn’t be too much of an issue for Floyd. His character, upbringing and athletic upside will make a team in the top five fall in love with him.

  18. Jake says:

    What’s the likelihood of Jarvis Jones falling to Seahawks at 25 after all the talk about medical concerns from spinal stenosis??

    • mjkleko says:

      There has been some mention of a Da’Quawn Bowers like fall down to the second round (believe he was 56th to Bucs, or near there). While the reports stated “multiple teams” have taken him off their draft boards, that could mean 3 or 14, no one outside maybe a handful of insiders with phenomenal sources throughout the league would really know.

      My opinion is that with the success recent pass rushers have had in their first and second years lately might make Jones too irresistibly to pass up for some franchises. Personally I think the Seahawks would be mad to pass up on him at #25, but a huge part of Schneider’s philosophy is bringing in players to become long term fixtures in the franchise and these health problems do nothing but make that a concern.

    • John says:

      For me… I just don’t know if Pete will pull the trigger after letting him walk at USC. Not that I have any clue how much he had to do with that.

      • jake says:

        Considering how close we were to getting to the Superbowl…i think its worth the risk. If it means getting 2 phenomenal years, so be it. FYI: OT Marcus Mcneill (age 28) of San Diego Chargers had the same thing and had to retire at the age of 28.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think he’ll be a round two pick. And Seattle almost certainly won’t be the ones to draft him.

  19. John says:

    Corey Lemonier just screams LEO to me. I will be watching him closely tomorrow. I would be extremely happy getting him at the bottom of the 3rd to compete with Bruce. Either way, I think you’re getting an underrated pass rusher in him.

  20. Kenny Sloth says:

    Vance McDonald caught a ton of bubble screens at Rice from what limited tape I have. Didn’t look very quick, or good at blocking. He looks natural and fluid catching the ball.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I saw a lot of bobbled passes and awkward catches personally.

      • Kenny Sloth says:

        Hahahaha… I was watching from my cellular. I’ll refrain from offering opinions before I have definitive information about it.

        I liked Gragg’s hands. He readjusts to balls well and has great body control

  21. Nick says:

    I am disappointed with the TEs. I would rather have Jared Cook or Delanie Walker. Then spend first three picks on DE, DT, WR in no particular order. Rob, thoughts?

  22. One player that quietly killed his draft stock today was Menelik Watson. Hyped just a few days ago as a rising star who looks like a freak athlete on tape, he ran an official 5.29 forty with a below average 10 yard split. He passed on the bench press as well. Had he done well, he might have put himself in play in the late 1st, but now it’s anyone’s guess where he ends up.

  23. Khaseem Greene helped himself out today- measuring at 241 pounds. He was thought to weigh 230- which is fringe.

  24. Phil says:

    Most interesting thing to me today (yesterday) was an ESPN radio interview http://kiroradio.com/listen/9952717/# that John Clayton did with PC. PC again emphasized the lack of pass rush, saying that it was the one area that the FO has not successfully addressed in the 3 years they have been in power. PC made it sound like they are targeting an experienced “pass rusher” (Freeney? Osi?) in FA and that they will be addressing DT (“a Jason Jones” kind of player) in the draft. Makes sense if they can sign either of the DEs to a 1 or 2 year contract and avoid taking a long-term hit to the salary cap. PC says that the team has a long-term plan to address the salary cap hits that will result from all our young players ending their rookie contracts in the next few years. He also sounded like he thinks that they have some young LBs (the “USC Backups”) that are already on the roster that he’d like to see play. Anyway, we’ll see …

  25. Dan says:

    i think you’re too harsh on Carpenter. Yes, he failed at tackle but he was still coming back from a devastating knee injury when they pulled him from the guard spot last year. I expect him to solidify the interior line next year.