#Seahawks have agreed to terms on a deal with former first-round OL Chance Warmack, per his agent Ron Slavin of @SPORTSTARSNYC. He’s back in the league after taking a year to get healthy.
— Mike Garafolo (@MikeGarafolo) March 22, 2020
The 2020 draft has three main strengths.
There’s real quality and depth at receiver. There are a lot of good interior offensive linemen and several offensive tackles will go in the first round. It’s also quietly impressive at running back.
On the other hand, the defensive line options are much weaker than a year ago and it’s really hard to find Seattle-style cornerbacks.
So of course, nearly a week into free agency, the Seahawks have signed four offensive linemen and the only addition to the unit of highest priority (pass rush) is Bruce Irvin (who turns 33 this year).
It’s important to remember that none of the offensive line additions carry any long term commitment. They can take a look at the group, see how they potentially fit into the roster for this year and make a call.
They could also be replaced by any rookies they add next month.
Chance Warmack will probably be on a veteran minimum contract after a year long sabbatical. Let’s assume that. Even though few would’ve predicted Cedric Ogbuehi’s backup role in Jacksonville would warrant a jump in salary from $750,000 to $3.3m.
The Seahawks have depth across the board now at every O-line position. Whether the depth is any good remains to be seen. None of these new additions are what you’d call proven quality. They also have younger players on the roster who need to show they belong too.
Warmack is the seventh player from the top-15 of the 2013 draft class to be signed by Seattle. It’s also one of the worst draft classes in recent history. There’ll be very little pressure on Warmack to stick but he won’t have to go too far to top the contributions of Luke Joeckel, Dion Jordan, Ziggy Ansah and Barkevious Mingo.
His addition is a perfectly plausible shot to nothing. Warmack at Alabama was seen as a sure thing. He was physical and dominating. People expected he would be what Quenton Nelson has been — that’s why he was the #10 overall pick as an interior lineman. He has good length (near 35 inch arms) and ideal size. He’s a good fit physically for Mike Solari and the Seattle offense.
This also continues their more recent philosophy of signing veteran offensive linemen at a certain cost to fill holes while also drafting to develop. For the last two years they’ve plugged in guys like D.J. Fluker, J.R. Sweezy and Mike Iupati. They’ve then used picks on players like Phil Haynes and Jamarco Jones on day three. With Germain Ifedi, George Fant and Iupati moving on — they had a few holes to fill this year. So they’ve simply continued with their plan. They’ve added veterans. It’s plausible they will now also draft to develop behind them.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with this signing. If it works out — it’s a bargain. If not — he gets cut. Most of the moves they’re making on the O-line are unlikely to have a significant say in whether Seattle challenges for a Super Bowl or not in 2020.
What is going to have an impact on their ability to contend is fixing the pass rush and injecting much needed talent into the defense. So far — they’ve swapped Ziggy Ansah for Bruce Irvin, watched Quinton Jefferson move to Buffalo and that’s it.
They’re still trying to smoke out Jadeveon Clowney, who may or may not re-sign. If he moves on, they’ll lose the one X-factor player on a terrible D-line from 2019. Many of the alternative options have signed with other teams.
It’s time to start signing some pass rushers. The defense needs major work in general. It’ll be strange to see the Seahawks forced to tap into the D-line draft looking for impact when it’s one of the weaker D-line classes in recent memory. Particularly for edge rushers.
If they land Clowney for a much cheaper price than expected and are then able to surround him with others (because don’t forget — keeping Clowney merely maintains the status quo of what was a bad line in 2019) — then we’ll all look back on this period and laugh at our impatience.
The alternative — losing Clowney over a few million, limiting the alternative options or additional options and/or not doing enough to sufficiently improve a bad defense — could mean we’re sat here in a year talking about the same things all over again. Missed opportunities, wondering are they going to waste Russell Wilson’s best years, saying that they need to be pro-active in free agency. That can’t happen.
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How much? That DE fund seems to be dwindling. Meantime, we seem to be amassing the NFLs largest collection of mediocre O linemen. I can see the endgame. If a team needs a mediocre O lineman due to an injury, they’ll have to come to us.
My guess is that Clowney not wanting to sign a longer term, say 3 year deal, for less than he thinks he is worth has hamstrung them since on a 1 year deal they will have to eat the whole cap hit immediately.
I have no doubt they would be willing to give him a nice deal but the realities of the cap may hold us back.
Another consideration is the effect of the Corona virus lockdown AND the new CBA. First there is a good chance there will be no OTA’s after the draft and second, the new rules on practicing and even being at the facility will probably have a major impact on the ability of draft picks to get up to speed. As a result, it would be fair to conclude that draft picks will take longer to develop, especially, lineman who need as much time in pads as possible to practice technique.
As a result, experienced veterans will become much more useful than draft picks other that identified NFL ready top picks since the learning curve will drag out even more than it is.
We already have seen how long it takes to develop players from the late first on down to the point where they can reach their potential. Good examples for us include: Britt, Clark, Griffen, Fant, Clark, and yes even Ifedi. None of these never really reached their projected talent levels as starters until their 3rd year.
This may very well be why they have been loading up on middle of the road veterans in FA since they may be thinking that where there simply will not be much in the way of immediate help in the draft even for depth at where we are drafting. A collateral effect is that the positions that tend to be able to contribute the quickest such as RB and probably WR might actually go up in value as draft picks whereas one would think the value of the big uglies in the trenches might go down.
Warmack and Ogbeuhi this year, Joeckel a couple of years ago, Gallery back in 2011… what is this team’s obsession with bringing in offensive linemen who were first round busts???
So in a year when we have a pretty good O-Line draft class and a pretty abysmal D-Line draft class, we spend all of our cap room on middling-at-best offensive linemen and all but ignore pass rushers? I get trying to go against the grain, but I really have no idea what PC and JS are doing here?
Cedric and Warmack are likely non guaranteed deals and I’ll bet they get pushed out by draft picks.
Finney is free as he enables us to cut or renegotiate with Britt.
So really you are talking about Shell as the only guy we actually spent money on. And we need a cheap RT to replace Ifiedi.
Its all just preparation as part of John Schneider’s master plan to eventually sign Tony Mandarich
hahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
comment of the year!
Once again, JS is dominating the draft — the 2013 draft.
Oh for cryin’ out loud…enough already! We’ll have the best washed-up O-line in the league.
Sounds like Seattle isn’t going to get offensive lineman they want in this draft class (assuming Austin Jackson and Cesar Ruiz) and don’t want to use their later picks on developing day 3 offensive lineman. Which makes me believe that maybe we might be doubling down on getting the only 2 LEO targets (Julian Okwara, Jabari Zuniga)
I doubt either buy would be available when they pick, so stacking up serviceable OL prospects might be a good idea. At least they will have some depth at the OL with a competent OL coach leading them.
None of these guys prevents us from getting a developmental day 3 OL prospect.
Who
Leads me to believe they weren’t happy with Fluker’s 2019 performance and want competition. Which is ironic, because Fluker and Warmack played next to each other at Alabama and were the 11th & 10th overall picks respectively.
Nevermind – I guess Warmack is more of a LG than a RG, and is therefore competition for Haynes.
I think you were right the first time. Over 90% of his snaps in the NFL were at RG.
Wow. Not a fan. Warmack has struggled in the league. What in earth is John Schneider doing? Using the cap space to sign a bunch of below average offensive linemen instead of fixing the pass rush.
Blue Light Special Bargain Shopping!
(I wonder if Rob knows what a blue light special is….) 😉
I do not!
My favorite part of going to Kmart as a kid-alerting mom where the blue light was flashing😂
Funny guys, i forget about the blue light…lol
I always thought it was a treat to get a sub sandwich when my parents took me to Kmart…. looking back, they were awful… the subs, not my parents
So, Kmarts Blue Light Special was a take off on American Diners Blue Plate Special, a tradition where a cafe would take leftover meat and make a Sunday style full dinner for cheap. It was usually a bargain, but sometimes one you regretted lol!
Now this is quality Americana trivia!
Saw a new article on SDB wishing it was a deal with Clowney…once again no cigar. What the heck are you doing Seahawks FO? In the words of Arnold Schwarzenegger, “Do it!…DO IT NOW!!!…What are you waiting for?”
Could it be, Clowney has more long term injury concerns that Seattle is well aware of.. and do not want to be stuck paying him a huge deal for 1-2 more years of production? This is what the smoke is leading towards… and why other teams were not suitors initially. The Titans are in a win now mode, since they beefed up the QB and overall team.. and really have about a 2 year window…. in the crap AFC.
I think if that was the case they would have moved on to something else a few days ago while there were still other FAs available to fill the need.
Russ said he wanted stars, so we went and got some 1st rounders… What’s the problem?
Would love to know what Russ thinks about the first week of FA.
You know that it would be all sunshine and rainbows
Publicly, yes.
Privately, I doubt it.
Oh man, Ive never agreed with you more Rob!
I kinda like those kind of moves. An OLine man that has all the physical traits you are looking for but can’t get it together technically sounds a lot like many draft choices on OLine for the first few years of their career. In my opinion, grabbing those first round busts is like collecting late round draft choices. You give guys a shot that have physical traits. Maybe we can coach one up one day and if not there is not much lost if the salary is not too high. The guy bring experience to a young guard competition. Going into the season with Haynes being your only LG would be slightly risky.
Those moves now are not sexy and nobody of us wants to see them while Clowney is up in the air but in my opinion adding up on OLine is not a bad thing given our departures.
I agree with that analysis for Warmack, assuming he is a league minimum salary. But paying 3.3 million for a guy like that in Ogbuhei is just a head scratcher
Yes that one has Joeckel vibes to me. I think they wanted a 1 for 1 replacement for Fant. When Fant was starting they even had Hunt doing his TE job. Fant with 10 mil was out of reach so they went with the next cheapest guy that qualifies for that role. They just seem to really want to implement that role into their scheme just like Shanahan likes his FB. Paying 3.3 for a TE / LT backup seems decent value if that guy would not be terrible.
Here’s to hoping Solari can work some magic I guess.
Defense chasing Russell Wilson all over field is a art form must be preserved.
Maybe one of the recent OL signees can play DL? Lol
This is what the OL room looks like right now. Obviously changes will be made, but damn… I’m guessing at least 5 get dropped from this list (and that’s not including any other additions and future drops).
LT: Brown/Ogbuehi
LG: Finney/Warmack/Roos/Haynes
C: Britt/Hunt
RG: Fluker/Pocic/Fuller/Wheeler
RT: Shell/Jones
A lot of names.
Yet only one player of any assured quality in 2020.
Yup… Brown
I don’t understand this.
Criticizing them for not making bigger moves on the OL and for not signing DL with the same breath.
If they went bigger on the OL than essentially just Shell, say Conklin and McGovern, that’d mean no money for DL and they’d be getting blasted for that.
What other OL moves would you have them make?
Criticize all you want for DL inactivity but I have no issue with their OL signings.
It’s kinda damned if you do damned if you don’t.
You seem to be putting words in my mouth.
I never said anything about making bigger moves on the OL.
It is possible to observe the unknown quantity of this large list of names without suggesting they should’ve spent money on the OL.
J, we’re not upset that they’re not spending more for a better class of O lineman, we’re upset they haven’t really fixed the overwhelming need of the team, defensive end. Why shrink your remaining cap space for this group of bench warmers before you secure your defensive ends. The guys they picked up would still be there next week.
I think Ogbuehi is in contention for RT as well. They aren’t going to pay $3.3M to a backup LT and rarely TE.
Fant was paid $3.095M last season to do exactly that.
I really hope I’m re-writing this in two hours guys I really do.
I feel like I’ve let a lot of people down on this blog. Building up expectations that they would be pro-active to fix the pass rush. I was wrong. 100% flat out wrong.
its not like you were way out on a ledge with crazy proclamations. If u were to predict what they are actually doing right now, I’d say u were crazy.
Nah, man. Tony is right.
We were right there with you, Rob. The glaring need was obvious and this team has never been shy about improving itself. This is entirely perplexing. There is no way to fix this through the draft. Now we’re pressing into cap problems regardless of if we get someone via FA or trade. Total head scratcher.
No need for any Humble pie, it was a good prediction, with really solid evidence to support it.
I’m totally a draft and develop mindset, but was totally onboard with an injection of talent even if it took free agency to do it. I have no idea what the plan is, but there’s always been a plan every other offseason. For all the hints, and PCs willingness to discuss there plan publicly, I still think the Hawks are the absolute hardest team to predict in the league. Over the last decade, you’ve had a better track record than anyone else by a country mile Rob!!!
Yeah you got us pretty convinced they were going to be aggressive fixing the pass rush and that does have a lot to do with our current outcry but it certainly isn’t just you. It’s pretty obvious they needed this fixed apart from anybody saying so. I still hold out hope you were right and we resign Clowney and Griffin/Yannick. It’s just taking longer than expected maybe.
Don’t get down on yourself man. We all love you, and you are right more than wrong.
Rob,
No need to apologize and you haven’t let anyone down. You wrote about what a lot of us were thinking and hoping for ourselves. Even when mock drafts are being done, experts have to say the Seahawks are always a wildcard when it comes to a player and free agency has shown to not be too different. I, like many of us, are hoping they have a remarkable plan to address the pass rush. I just don’t have any idea what the hell it is right now.
Rob, we understand the need to fix the Dline and you have failed no one. One thing I like about you is your logic and directness and frankly, we aren’t seeing that from JS/PC at the moment. If there were issues with JD, they should have just moved on and picked up other FAs. We don’t know the whole story though so we just try to stay patient.
It’s just another lesson learned regarding the way this front office operates.
Under no conditions are they going to “go big” in free agency… ever.
Not this old chestnut again.
Come on.
2011 — Rice, Miller, re-signing Mebane, Gallery
2013 — Trading for Percy, Bennett, Avril
2015 — Trading for Graham
No, they never go big in free agency 🙄
I meant spending big on free agents, not big trades that happen during free agency.
But I’ll concede to your old chestnut point on the big Rice/Miller signings in 2011.
Though, if memory serves, Miller fell into their laps late in free agency, and his signing wasn’t necessarily an aggressive move at the time.
And even the Rice deal was unique, in that it was after the lockout, in July.
It wasn’t that late. Was about day three or four.
Time for making trades is not over yet. Ngakoue, Judon and X are still on the market. The Bennetts and Avrils were not there this year or did I miss something? All the suitable pass rushers were pretty expensive. There was nobody signing cheap prove it deals.
They weren’t limited to signing players on cheap prove it deals.
I like to believe that JS was sitting in his easy chair, smoking a stogie 3-4 weeks ago…. while reading the Seahawks Draft Blog… and he is upset with bloke named Rob Staton saying what he should do in free agency. He threw down the stogie and said “god damn it, that is it… I’m through with the internet trolls (Rob), we are going to slow roll this FA period just to make Rob look bad. That will show him who is boss!”
Or JS/PC are stocking up at supplies at Costco and have been stuck in line for a week….. just saying
You have never let us down Rob. You are the best. I am an avid seahawks fan and look to your website to get my scoops. You have such a good feel for this team despite being across the pond.
I dont comment all the time so i dont know if its been mentioned in the comments so ill go ahead and say it again.
Do you think the Seahawks arent as down on the DL as the fans of the team on the blog are? Im always way overly optimistic when it comes to the Seahawks and hold out hope for players we draft in the earlier rounds.
I had a good feeling about Rasheem going into year 2 and if he continues to improve and make big plays more consistently. I have the same optimism for Collier, even though you said months back its apples and oranges, Rasheem was a youngster and Collier was an older rookie. Im glad we were able to retain Jarran and bring Bruce back. From an optimistic-best-case-scenario perspective, the dline might only be 1-2 pieces away from being complete and able to make a run at the Lombardi.
The thing is Manthony — I’m not down on this class just because of an opinion based on tape. If it was just that, I could easily accept I’m an amateur not a pro and that the pro’s can see things I don’t.
But when you take mediocre tape then transfer it to awful testing at the combine — you get a horrible mix.
The guys just aren’t there in this draft. They really aren’t. There’s nobody for them to be much higher on.
Man Rob, no need to apologize. Your blog causes us to THINK FOR OURSELVES, and to consider new and alternative options. You have been very successful, and look forward to many more years of reading your thoughts and ideas. Actually, i think the one thing i lack, along with most of us here, is patience. My goodness, We have had a great run, and i don’t see any reason why JS/PC won’t keep it going…..
It was their area of biggest weakness heading into the offseason. It was also quite clearly a position of weakness in this draft. Any logical person would deduce that they’d get after it in FA. Their lack of doing so up to this point is beyond all comprehension. I’m beginning to lose confidence in this FO that they know how to get back to competing for a championship instead of just being, at best, a playoff team.
Were all wrong at times my friend. My wife tells me Im wrong all the time. People take educated guesses at things and sometimes you get it right and sometimes not.
Rob, it certainly isn’t you letting people down – it’s the Seahawks’ front office!
Rob has been doing his (hobby) job very well.
Who says the Seahawks front office hasn’t been doing theirs? Are they pikers? No. We don’t have enough details about the negotiations with Clowney’s people to know what the holdup is — or holdups are.
Is it money? Is it his desire to be elsewhere? Is it term? Does it have to do with his health last season?
I’m seeing THIS way too often here: “throw money at the problem!” Did we all morph into Jeremy Corbyn or Bernie Sanders overnight? Maybe it’s not just money.
Rob-no way have you let ANYBODY down. The expectations were not so much built up by you, as drawn from things there for all to see, as well as well-studied tendencies displayed over time by PC/JS-especially when they’về put forth strongly stated priorities.
“It is hard to kick against the pricks”, but “the whirlwind is in the thorn tree” (been listening to a lot of C/W music whilst cooped-up here). You have been every bit the beacon you’về always been, and fraught times such as these just have a well-known tendency to magnify things.
Do you win the off-season on Day 5 of free agency??? HELL NO!
We could absolutely still trade for Von Miller or something, dude.
Remember that last 9er game we were whooped at halftime n this whole blog was ready to hand it over? Leave that mess behind man!!!
They’ll do something. Ansah/Clowney didn’t work out, but they won’t let us down man.
That’s blind faith Kenny.
Hyoid must have a different definition of blind faith than I do.
My “faith” in the FO is based on their years of demonstrated success at running a team. Are they always the best? No. Do they blunder? Sometimes. But during PC and JS’s tenure the team has been notably better than average, with periods of excellence. We have a successful well run team on the field almost every season.
I’d even say the FO has negotiated a potentially slippery post LoB rebuild very well. (Rob’s the guy who got me to accept that they even overachieved last season by reaching the post season in a tough division.) Based on past performance, it is warranted, maybe even we’ll warranted to say that “they’ll do something.”
*maybe even well warranted*
+1
I like a low level signing like this. I like loading up on OL and creating competition there or hedging for the draft. But JESUS, SIGN SOME GOOD DL! This is just maddening. Are they trolling fans? Is this some social experiment. This is incredibly bizarre.
I’m half expecting to wake up from a long snooze.
I’ll tell my wife I had a dream about a worldwide pandemic and the Seahawks didn’t sign any good defensive linemen at the start of FA.
She’ll act shocked and say, ‘They didn’t sign any good defensive lineman???’
lol
lol. This whole 2020 year makes no sense. The seahawks just adding to it now. I’m usually one to remain patient with the FO based on their past. But I just can’t understand this at all. I’m texting with people daily any update. Yet no resolution. Now watch patriots swoop in and nab clowney. Screams 2nd wave belichek move.
I’d be more at ease with that dream-scenario if it were for Sonny and Cher /”I Got You, Babe” playing on the clock radio when you opened your eyes!
This year is the opposite of what they’ve done every other year. None of it makes sense at all, other than Pete has gone off the deep end and John can’t stop him. Mind boggling.
might be time to ask PC and JS, you guys feeling ok???slight fever?
Hopefully they think/know they can get Clowney for much cheaper than expected and Solari has convinced them to try out some guys he thinks he can turn around.
Wait. That still sucks.
A measured appraisal, and very salient.
🤞🏼
As much as these signings seem to confound because of the context of the pass-rush void, if I look at the projected OL they do seem to make some sense, I hate to admit. Realistically, the Seahawks — after enjoying two seasons of relative continuity and success on the OL — are preparing to probably replace 3/5th’s of that unit. They are taking a “shotgun approach;” throw a lot of bodies at the problem and let an expanded competition in camp decide who wins the jobs. They are right to worry about this unit; we’ll see if their approach to fixing it bears out. As Rob mentioned, there’s clearly the potential for maybe two of the four they recently signed to get cut without much penalty. I’m also assuming we will tap the strength of the draft once again and draft an OL, but perhaps they won’t expect them to start right away with these hedges in tow.
I am wondering if these signings will impede our ability to sign DL help — when does the cap have to balance out? In other words, can we run a deficit in the offseason and get back in the black before a given deadline? Or does the cap prohibit running in the red for any length of time in the offseason? Because if so, I can’t possibly imagine how we’ll sign both Clowney and Everson Griffen at this rate, and it will be time to simply stop expecting reinforcements on the DL in free agency, and concede that they intend to target this area in the draft, as much as we may not agree with that prospect.
Now let’s go get Tyler Eiffert and Keenan Allen and call it a day.
Underrated comment
Thanks, man. I work hard to generate nonsense.
Your Oasis bit did not go unnoticed. Funny stuff.
The only bright side rob, is that it’s very unlikely that they play football this year.
I don’t see that as a bright side at all, in more ways than one.
Rob, im worried that the Hawks may wait a while until we fix the pass rush. J. Clowney may be hoping for the virus to get better until he signs a contract. And it is not looking like the virus will be getting better anytime soon.
Our leverage will only increase the closer it is to the draft (in terms of trading for pass rushers). Maybe at this point it is worth looking more into YN/Chris Jones/Judon as options for the Hawks. Keeping Clowney would be ideal so that we could save those draft picks but im uncertain the longer we wait–> the more in favor it looks like Clowney will sign.
On the contrary, our leverage will decrease the closer we get to the draft. If we’re desperate for pass rushers, that won’t work well in negotiations. And Jacksonville/Baltimore don’t have to do anything with their two guys. They can make them play on the tag.
Even if they successfully wait this out with Clowney they need more. They had Clowney last year. And the D-line was awful.
I respectfully disagree. If YN/Jones/Judon are willing to hold out then I think waiting will only increase the value of the draft picks. Like when we traded Clark versus how Clowney was traded.
With that said, you are definitely right that adding only one of these guys will not be enough and holding out is a dangerous risk. You are right- even if we do sign Clowney we will need to continue signing players. Clowney needs to be prioritized because it would allow us to keep our picks… The more I think about it- the more risky it is for the hawks to play this game.
Is paying Clowney the extra 2.5-5 million worth a 1st and a 2nd round pick? I definitely think so. The only way the Hawks can really win this is if JD caves, sign Everson and/or trade for YN/Jones near draft time.
Perhaps (hopefully) this is part of JS’s master plan. However, it really looks like now they are playing a dangerous game. We will be screwed if JD does not resign here.
It doesn’t matter if they’re willing to hold out.
Neither team has any cap issues. They can simply carry the player on their roster until mid-way through the season, when they’ll need to report for the year to toll. In the meantime, the team won’t be paying any of their salary while they hold out.
So no — there’s no leverage for a desperate Seahawks team buying in a sellers market.
These OL moves tell me they are far less satisfied with the OL than they let on publicly. Or they are not at all confident in the young guys who provided depth. I’m actually happy they are admitting it and trying to create competition. But of course, the even larger question looms.
I think it just means these players fit a physical profile they’re looking for and they’ve added some depth.
We’ve highlighted a lot (and I’m adding this to the article now) that their preference has been to sign veterans and then draft to develop.
Depth, true. Although Warmack is probably a matter of taking a cheap Chance, all those salaries are adding up. They must consider at least a couple to be starters. The notion of continuity on the line looks to have been just talk.
This signing is relatively meaningless it seems to me. He may or may not even make the cut to 53. He could also be our starting guard next season. I agree with most of the above posts and the article which outlines an inexplicable obsession with the interior linemen, but an apparent lack of urgency in signing DLmen. We just don’t know, but this signing doesn’t change our cap outlook by much if any. So waiting on Clowney or others to be signed is still a lesson in patience and hope. There is still hope for our DL.
What seems more relevant to me is the more and more real possibility that there is no NFL season in 2020 due to the corona virus. In the coming weeks this idea will go from radical to mainstream, I believe. The latest reports I have read suggest an 18 month cycle of hunkering down and then having the disease flare back up with everyone hunkering down again. The only thing which will stop the cycle is a vaccine.
We need to get on a wartime footing and accelerate the process of discovering an effective vaccine. People are dying already and finding a vaccine in 6 months instead of 12 months could save millions of lives. Some of those lives lost will come from a worldwide depression.
The CBA roster is now 55…. but 1 of the 2 new slots has to be an OL… according to a report I read.
I don’t think anyone benefits from this type of speculation. I know in the UK we’re being told the peak will likely take the next 12 weeks, then we will be on the downturn. I think that’s realistic. All this talk of 18 months is a bit premature and just leads to people panicking, worrying and it makes the situation worse.
Will their be football? Probably. Could it be behind closed doors? Yes. Will the season be delayed? Probably. Will it happen? Too early to say.
That may well be true about the peak. But without a vaccine or at least significantly effective anti-virals, don’t count on there being only one peak. The second peak in 1918 was worse than the first one. Presumably, we have learned from that experience, but we’ll see…
Feel free to remove my post, Rob. I agree the idea is panic inducing, but I also believe it is just a short time till this will be a mainstream discussion. As you said, it is at least possible/likely football will be affected one way or another.
It is. But we need to be really careful. Catastrophizing can have very serious consequences. We don’t need to speculate on worse case scenarios. We need to do only three things:
1. Do as you are told. If the experts say stay in doors, DO IT.
2. Look after each other.
3. Retain a positive outlook. See this as a challenge for us all to rise to.
That’s all we need to do.
👏
I’ve got to bet that they are working diligently at finding a vaccine for this as quickly as possible. I’m not ready to call the season off just yet but I can envision teams playing without the crowds. I was thinking about that last night…can you imagine playing in Century link without any fans during a game? It would be like each game is a neutral site game. The silence would be deafening!
I don’t think we have enough information to know how this will play out. Be safe.
That said, I can’t see a situation where it’s too dangerous for fans, but not the players. Safety first.
Yes, safety first and I think the majority of us recognize and are doing just that, including the NFL. We are taking this seriously because of that history. One thing going for us is our advancements over the decades with combating things like this. Just our knowledge as a whole on how to deal with this type of thing. I have hope but know we are a ways away from it and it will get harder before it gets easier.
More Twitter rumors to take with a grain of salt.
https://mobile.twitter.com/SeaHawkFORLife/status/1241835949140652035
I’m going to let this stay in here for now — but I think we’ve all had our fill of twitter rumours from random accounts for one weekend.
His feed has history of asking people to retweet stuff to help him pay medical bills. Not saying it’s all untrue, but I’m inclined to totally dismiss this dude.
This guy can barely write in english so Im sure he has no idea what he is talking about.
It’s really fascinating how many Bob Condottas are out there :’D
OMG “screws the pouch” is my new catchphrase.
‘Screw the pouch’ should be a meme to sum up this off-season.
How to reconcile great trades/contracts/cap management with the poor drafts/free agent signings?
Lol.
We are laughing out loud.
’13 draft: Overall? Not good.
PC/JS: hold our beer
Pete’s becoming that neighbor who gives kids a dime on Halloween.
Dried fruit
LOL. I might just do that.
Or the local dentist that gives out toothbrushes!
Rob – It’s too early to be apologizing for ‘letting people down’. There’s an instant-gratification vibe we go through every year where the ‘Hawks usual lack of heavy activity in early free agency gets tempers boiling. But most years, John & Pete really do have something up their sleeves. Sometimes it’s been great drafts from unsuspecting places. Sometimes it’s been good ‘gets’ via FA. Sometimes it’s been via trades. The one thing about the trades is that they are usually quite surprising, as there is generally very little pre-trade leaking that gets out.
For years the lack of activity was understandable.
They were paying a lot of money to a legendary team. Then they had no cap space and picks as they went through the reset.
Now they had cap space, picks and a need to inject talent into key positions. The quarterback is telling the media he wants superstars. They’re saying they need to fix the pass rush. That Clowney is a huge priority.
And they’ve done nothing, really.
Oops! Posted before thought complete.
Anyway, given the grabbing of OL depth and the lack of early-round FA activity, plus the generally poor reviews on edge rushers in the draft, I wonder if what we are witnessing is a prep & buildup to one or more large trades. Unexpected, and maybe heavily dependent on our releasing draft capital to close them. Seems unlikely PCJS have just ‘given up’ and accepted their fate. It’s possible, I guess. But it would not be in keeping with their usual MO.
Heh. You’re fast! Got that in there before I finished my post. Well done!
Gonna ramble, bear with me as my brain is doing two things right now…
Rationally, it’s telling me to chill b/c I don’t know what PCJS do…
– They know their cap situation and overall health/quality of the roster.
– They are behind closed doors in negotiations
– They know what this draft has in regards to the talent they desire (yes, even better than Rob does!!! 😝😝😝)
– They can’t go Luca Brossi and make FAs sign
But, to the emotional part of me (and not to completely just repeat what Rob said, but…) this is by far the most frustrating Seahawks offseason I can remember.
– “We want continuity on the OL”… So they sign four mediocre vets?
– “We need to add to the pass rush”… by subtracting QJeffand adding Irvin
– “We need superstars”… 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
I’d feel a lot better if news broke tonight they signed Griffen. JC is obviously willing to play the long game. I do not begrudge him at all for that; it’s his career, this might be his last chance to sign an enormous contract, and he has to do what’s best for it. But, by signing Griffen, they’d have their hedge ‘in case’. They could wait Clowney out, and if they had to move on to negotiating a trade with whomever, they wouldn’t be doing so from a place COMPLETE desperation, merely of need.
I think this is a key point. They’ve gone against pretty much everything they said they were setting out to do. I don’t believe this is necessarily a deliberate misdirection. It might be that things haven’t gone according to plan.
But whatever the reason, they’re still left in this situation. A situation that means this team has not been improved and could be on its way to wasting another season.
Not making excuses for PC/JS, but I think everyone thought that the cap was going to increase under the new CBA, but it has actually decreased when you factor in the new minimum salaries. Back to the drawing board as far as advance planning goes.
If you want to apologize for something, let it be for giving us Oasis and One Direction.
Otherwise, you’re fine.
And the Spice Girls
Horrible Oasis take.
Oasis? The band that claimed to be bigger than the Beatles?? Please…
I’m gonna stand up beside the fireplace and wipe this comment off the face of the earth
I think what’s breaking my brain about Warmack is, this is the type of signing you do after the draft and before OTA’s. Reclamation project you get and see if he can earn a spot or at least provide competition.
Not in the first week of league year. When your biggest need is still unaddressed. And there are guys you could sign to address it.
Yep.
Rob things are pretty much baffling that’s for sure As of right now how much are the Seahawks paying for the center position a lot probably too much with Britt and Hunt whats that 12 plus million a year makes me cringe .why exactly is Ed Dickson still on the roster.i have no idea.I seem to Chance Womack at Alabama he was a stud he had the measurements arm length if he makes tremendous sign ,if he gets cut no major loss . Hope John has a plan all we could hope
what a complete waste of resources. wtf happened to this front office.
For whatever reason, they haven’t/aren’t learning from past mistakes. So ready for the draft this year when the board goes away from them and they take a guy they clearly didn’t want in that spot. Again.
Cue the day draft presser day 1 funeral music. Part 2 aka ‘The Remix’
With the 27th pick, the Seattle Seahawks select Ezra Weaver, Boise State.
Wait, what?
Another under developed DE.
Add Epenesa to the pile.
Clearly they’re just setting the table ahead of trading up for Isaiah Simmons… 👀
http://seahawksdraftblog.com/further-thoughts-on-trading-up-for-isaiah-simmons
That’s all we can hope for given their indecision so far.
We should presume that PC/JS know what they are doing.
If we do so, then this filling out of the Oline has to have a specific reason and a specific goal.
I think the reason is that they expect(ed) to lose Ifedi and Fant and want to cut Britt.
I think the goal has to be to be able to use draftcapital outside of the oline. I think they have succeeded in that. We have a cheaper center, a cheap right tackle and two players that add competition and can be cut without losing significant money.
Could it be that they actually are confident of getting Clowney and Griffen? That in their minds the pash rush is already solved?
I can see them do two things with the draft capital, they freed up by filling the o-line. Trading back, getting into to the end of the second and third round with a lot of picks where the biggest value of this draft is. Then use it to deepen the roster across all positions. Letting the draft come to them.
Or, indeed, as Rob is suggesting, half in jest, they could use that capital to trade up significantly and grab the best defensive player in the draft.
Rob, if they actually want to rade up for Simmons, would this not be the way they would have to go about it?
I think the OL signings are very explainable and as simple as this:
For the last three off-seasons they have signed veteran offensive linemen to plug holes. They have decided that experience matters. With Fant, Ifedi and Iupati moving on they have moved to replace them. They’ve also added Warmack for a bit of competition too.
I think they were going to do this whatever happened with the DL.
And now they’ve done it. Which is fine. But it doesn’t excuse the complete lack of activity to fix the pass rush.
What makes you choose that particular word, “indecision”?
How do you know they are indecisive? Maybe it’s Clowney who is indecisive? Maybe he’s getting bad — or good — advice from his entourage or his agent.
Maybe the FO is absolutely decisive and agree completely that Clowney is the guy but he’s demanding crazy dollars and/or crazy term? Or he is so tepid about returning that they are now compelled to rethink their plans?
Do you know something the rest of us don’t know?
I’m going to continue to hope Jonathan Taylor makes it to 27. I’d rather have him and both second round picks. I’m really hoping for Taylor at 27 or a trade into the second round (somewhere) to get Dobbins.
For the record I don’t think they’ll trade up for Simmons.
I think they’ll trade down.
Do what they always do.
Get their guys in their range.
Goodness knows who their guys will be in this class though looking at their glaring needs.
Worth remembering they’ve often tapped into the strength of a draft with their first pick. And that’s receiver this year. Going WR and then DL with their first two picks might be a thing. Or they might just take the best defensive lineman if they haven’t sorted that out.
You aren’t ready for them to bank on ‘Bama’s Terrell Lewis to solve their pass rushing issues?
I’m not.
(But thankfully I’m very confident they won’t do that)
How about the S4CKGURU himself…? 😜
Thankfully they might be put off by his lack of testing and sub 33 inch arms.
One could hope 😂
Had the same thought. That’s why they still negotiate with Clowney, they don’t want to trade their picks because they need them for something else.
Well, at least we can hope for this.
Im fine with them signing Warmack. Ive wondered why he wasnt a guy they targeted…maybe he was. If he doesnt make the team, thats fine too.. .
The real issue is what happens if we dont get Clowney, and who else we gonna add? Because Clowney, as Rob preaches, aint enough.
Frustrating as hell watching and waiting…Theres stuff going on we dont know about. No way in hell JS and PC are playing hardball over a few million a year by choice. That defies logic, and Im not buying it. And I can use logic and guesswork to speculate, but its gets us nowhere.
Much as I wanted improvement on the Oline, these moves arent getting us anywhere without major improvements to the pass rush, of which Irvin is not an answer.
Really interesting how uncertinty ferrets out so much wild speculation among us. SEA had an old and expensive OL, 20 or so UFA’s at least 5 RFA’s, a bad defense, poor pass rush, top 3 RBs injured, and is hoping to improve. Lot still needs to be done. Yes JC is a huge opportunity, no I don’t understand why SEA would negotiate this tough seemingly w/so much to lose.
I don’t mind the signing if it’s bargain basement shopping. As long as it’s not a Jacksonville offensive lineman coming – it shouldn’t be too dumb of a contract.
Here are the details on Warmack’s contract — https://media.makeameme.org/created/one-billion-dollars-ks0wff.jpg
HaHaHa! Love it Rob…you evil genius you!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
Rad!
One thing that bothers me is comments in this early offseason where JS and PC mentioned that they have been concentrsting on bringing in guys who really want to be here, and nowhere else. They specifically referenced Avril and Bennett. Damned if I can remember where or when I read this, but it bothered me….
Why? Because it sounded to me like Seattle thought thry coukd undercut the market, and that they were a Destination team, and would have great players clamoring to join us, a-la Philly, Dallas, NE, NYG, Tenn, TB now they have Brady, etc…and I felt then, and moreso now, that they are in for a rude awakening in that regard. Players from the South, and indeed everyone outside the West, arent thrilled about playing where its cold and damp, a long ways from home–regardless off Pete being a players Coach and all the rest.
Its speculation of course, but if they counted on a PC/RW/,Winning Team discount or something, it would appear that has backfired badly. I have heard few if any reports of FA players clamoring to sign with Seattle….
Meanwhile, Seattles handling of FA boggles even Robs mind…
Clowney literally picked Seattle to play in. He declined the chance to play in South Beach for the Dolphins to come up to “cold and damp” Seattle.
Then after being exposed to the environment he publicly expressed love for playing here. More than once.
Yep. Has he signed a below market contract to return? Has any other Stud player? Apparently, Seattle isnt so great that players will take a pay cut to be here–at least thus far in 2020…but we dont know whats up behind the scenes….
Big 10-4 STTBM agree!
As it stands right now, they’re forced to go both EDGE and DT with two of their three picks in the first two rounds. That means there’s only one pick left for a RB, WR, or another defender who can improve the team speed (or something). Granted, a lot can change… especially if they can still land both Clowney and Griffen. That could open things up quite a bit.
Agree. And if there are only 4-6 DL worth taking in that range, they might get 1. Then what? Reach.
So, apparently my addled mind confused Larry Warford with Chance Warmack a couple years ago, and it stuck….maybe Im losing my ever loving mind….Anyhow, Warford obviously has been a far better NFL player, and I cant keep much straight, apparently….
I was not only mistaken, but wrong. Deeeerp!
Seems like the mantra for the SH’s relative to free agent d-line players is: go with us cheap, or go home. I’ve never been a ‘PC/JS are the best’ fan, but more like PC/JS are pretty darn competent. The degree that competency increases is a measure of continuity toward achieving a goal. We know their goal, but darned if they aren’t playing at it in a way that defies understanding at this date.
Honestly, it seems like im the only one that loves what they are doing so far. i am a big fan of this offseason. from these actions they clearly gave clowney a deadline to figure to try and make a deal or else they will most likely trade/sign someone, most likely more than one person.
PCJS came in and both said DLine is their biggest priority and they dont seemed worried about it. if they were they wouldve overpaid for Clowney or whoever they might be pursuing. I honestly see this as they have a couple of options that they are completely ok with going with.
Make no mistake they will sign/trade for atleast 2 players whether clowney is one of them, remains to be seen to us on the outside. But this tells me they like where they are at. and will most likely use their draft picks on WR, RB and DL if they fancy anyone.
PCJS love flexibility. if they want to sign everson and clowney they can. if they want to trade with JAC and then sign either clowney or everson and probably another one year prove it deal with a vet. again they can. the fact is this is most likely how they want it.
i dont know if anyone here negotiates alot for work or for any other reason. but the more time that passes, the more leverage the seahawks have NOT clowney.
everyone relax, it hasnt been a week yet since FA opened. So far i like the moves. moves that arent flashy but address hopefully improvement and depth on the offensive line.
i think this will be an off season that we will look back with happy thoughts. even if right now its inconvenient for you guys that they didnt sign the players up right away. DOES NOT MATTER. aslong as they get their guys on their terms. no one here including me knows what goes behind the scenes.
1. How is it clear they gave Clowney a deadline? We’re a week into free agency and they’re still waiting him out. They haven’t moved on. They haven’t signed other players. They’re just waiting.
2. How do you know they’re not worried about the D-line? They might be panicking for all we know about their plans not coming together.
3. You’re right, they will sign players. If it’s Benson Mayowa and Clay Matthews, that won’t be good enough.
4. The more time passes, the more limited you are with alternative options and you risk missing out altogether.
5. I’ll relax when they fix the pass rush thanks.
6. Blind faith can be charming. But not right now.
7. It’s not about inconveniencing us. It’s about not wasting another season.
every D-lineman left is most likely looking at clowney , just like its reported that everson is. he will most likely make top $$ which in turn will help them out.
if they were panicking they wouldve overpaid him to and made sure they secured clowney or whoever they want.
lets be realistic if they dont get clowney they would probably get yannick and everson. again everything depends on clowney in the DL free agency. this isnt my opinion this is a fact.
again them not throwing the bag at clowney means they are comfortable with the alternatives (yannick, everson, etc..) the fact of the matter is they are trying to sign more than one player for the DL, and like others have said. they are most likely trying to sign two players at once to make sure they dont give an edge to any other player they are interested in. for all we know they might have a deal agreed with another player and are waiting for clowney.
also they know which teams 1) have enough cap to compete with them 2) are interested in the players they are. so they are making a calculated risk. again they know stuff we will never know in our lives.
at the end of the season PCJS BOTH said they will be aggressive and need to address the Dline. people here are confusing being aggresive to be stupid and spending all the cap. you can be aggressive and still be smart. again this is a negotiation.
also signing that many OL in FA means they might be ready to make a trade with JAC for yannick.
I feel like you’ve not read any of the points made over the last three days.
I’m thinking about in a similar way as Yimba.
When you have multiple moves to make, your most important move isn’t always your first move.
I assume they have a couple of paths to solidify the LEO and 5T. I’m guessing the path becomes more clear after the Clowney negotiation.
For example, if Clowney and Griffen is their preferred pairing and a trade for Yannick with a lower cost 5T is their plan B, they’d be in a holding pattern until they sort out if they can add Clowney and Griffen within their cap structure. All hypothetical.
Aggressive doesn’t always mean immediate, it could mean allocation of available funds. Signing Reed, Irvin and either scenario above would be an aggressive move this off-season to strengthen the DLine from my perspective.
The OLine signings seem to be low level investments / cheap replacements. Obviously, they need to address more than the DLine. I think we’re collectively getting too caught up in the timing of the moves.
Wonder what you’ll say if/when Clowney signs somewhere else and the options are Everson Griffen, Bruce Irvin and Benson Mayowa to rescue a lousy defense.
if we dont get clowney (we are resigning him) but if we somehow dont, then i guarantee the seahawks go for yannick and griffen.
This is how you end up with Ansah.
Great points Yimba I agree. How do you resolve the scarcity question? By that I mean if they dont get Clowney, we cant sign anyone almost as good or as young, sort of a zero sum game in some respects?
They’re about to trade 2020 R1+R2 and 2021 R1+R2 for Myles Garrett or Joey Bosa. They will need every penny to pay them their shiny new $25m/apy contract…
Now where’s that “c’mon do something” meme when you need it…?
https://prntscr.com/rkumjj
Sign Clowney.
If they give the browns two first rounders, they can’t draft another two Colliers.
Clowney + Garrett = easy Ring, haha
*checks for 77K time this weekend*
No Clowney news
🙁
No but at least the usual cast of characters are speculating and telling us about their sources on Twitter (when nothing actually happens).
My god Twitter is awful.
I’m off to bed.
Glad I’m not the only one. I check right when I wake and all the time after that.
Tony Pauline’s Top 300 Big Board
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/tony-pauline-2020-nfl-draft-top-300-big-board/
Isaiah Wynn at 54, Hunter Bryant not on list. Hmm…….
Isaiah Wynn plays for the NE Patriots & Hunter Bryant is on the list.
Yes Isaiah Wilson is at #54. One man’s Big Board.
He has some surprising rankings:
Brandon Aiyuk – 149 (5th round)
Hakeem Adeniji – 170 (5h-6th)
Lloyd Cushenberry – 234 (6h-7th)
If at the end of all this we sign Clowney for 30 million an a two year contract, and we get Yannick for a 2nd round pick plus pay him 17 million on a 3 year deal will any of us complain? Just saying lets try and hold on a little longer. I’m generally not the eternal optimist but I’m getting a bit tired of my mind in the complaining mode.
From my perspective, if that happens all will be forgiven and Ill be over the moon. But it doesn’t change the fact that they’ve reached this point where that’s one of, maybe, a handful of good outcomes left available too them.
Sure hope things happen as you have suggested is still possible, but it’s hard for most of us to envision this outcome this far into free agency.
Although there’s lots of speculation about what’s actually going on inside the Hawks war room, it seems pretty clear at this point they are not yet meeting Clowney’s desired contract demands. And if they aren’t willing to sweeten their offer, it may not happen at all.
The risk of another team jumping in with a better offer could be getting greater the longer this draws out. Same goes for another team making a trade for YN.
Obviously the possibility of coming out of free agency without any superstars makes for lots of hand wringing, frustration, and complaining. I’ll be the first to stand up and salute JS/PC if their plan of playing hardball succeeds!
Great writing Rob! Always a joy to read your stuff.
Thanks Carter
Let’s assume a few things and then think through this.
Assumption 1: PCJS are not stupid and incompetent.
Assumption 2: PCJS were not lying when they said fixing the pass rush was a priority as was resigning Clowney etc.
Assumption 3: PCJS have not went from being a bold and fearless combo to being timid pansies in one offseason.
Assumption 4: PCJS do not believe the DL from last year minus QJeff plus Irvin would be acceptable.
So, taking those assumptions as true, what are some possible explanations for their actions this year? And yes, I realize this is all speculation. Everything anyone has said for the last week is just speculation.
These are off the top of my head, feel free to add yours as well.
They have a massive trade agreed to, and just can’t finalize it until people can travel and do physicals again.
They have something like an agreement in principal with Clowney and or Griffen and or ? and are just waiting for something to be able to finalize it.
I believe they thought they would either sign Clowney quickly or lose him quickly. I’m guessing they didnt expect what is happening. If Clowney did quickly sign with another team would Ngakoue already be a Seahawk? No idea.
I think that they are probably the ones that are least suprised about what is happening with Clowney. They had him for one season, they are in talks with him and his camp. Nobody except them has done that, no reporter, no twitter insider. There must be a plan with all this. Rather we agree with their plan or not. I don’t think they are just suprised and let all those other DE sign elsewhere because they were overwhelmed with the situation. Schneider prepares for the offseason for weeks. There is a lot of fair critizism towards Pete and their approaches at times but they are not an incapable franchise like many others in the leauge.
One thing that I want to point out here is that we have to take those pressers with a grain of salt. PCJS are masters at saying stuff that can not be proven wrong afterwards like “DLine” is a priority” when asked about this today they could say “oh we signed Irvin” or “things didn’t work out”. Nobody can prove that they didn’t “prioritize” it, whatever that means. We fans often grab the few sentences we get from them and start to build our own reality with it.
Who knows what their analysis of last season DLine was. Was it injuries, scheme, growing pains, missing LEO talent or a combination of all?
Remember, not having a better LEO was not our only issue.
For now, as pissed as we all are about it, we just need to wait and see. Nothing is over yet. Their next moves probably depend on Clowney. Why would you trade for another DE before knowing if you maintain Clowney? It could change your target from Leo to 5 tech, change your cap options etc.
Please, let’s analyse when things are set.
PS: I still enjoy all the debates so keep going guys!
Kind of what I’ve been thinking. It’s very possible there are deals in place that wontbe announced until they are finalized.
I’m also starting to think we might be better off without Clowney as long as that means we can go get Griffen and Ngakoue. A pass rush with Griffen, Ngakoue, Irvin and Reed/Collier/Green/draftee would be much better than last year and probably better than Clowney + whatever they can afford after signing him.
All is not lost as long as there is a possibility of going into the season with 2 of JC, YN, EG and Judon.
What would be the (3) most desired DEs that you would want with the Hawks this off season?
1. Clowney
2a. Ngakoue
2b. Griffen
Frustrating as things are presently, they’re still available. Hopefully, things will happen tomorrow where (2) of them are acquired. Which ones?
Wonder if the Chargers would be willing to trade Melvin Ingram for the Hawks 3rd rd comp pick or 4th? He’d have a $14M cap hit in his final year on his contract.
Do you mean DEN? Besides, I’m sure they would use that sum on the DL, not Ingram, without a doubt.
I wonder if they do have interest in Griffen? If they do would they wait for Clowney then Griffen? Or would they go Griffen first?
No not the RB Melvin Gordon. Melvin Ingram the DE/Leo
His T-rex arms are cute
I believe you have mistaken Melvin INGRAM for Melvin GORDON
You’re right, I did. To be honest, I never really considered Ingram as an option. I can’t see why the Chargers would want to make a trade that will break up their duo and weaken the Def.
PC & JS mentioned that they had about (6) players that they were targeting to make up that
5-tech/Leo and True Leo combo. Outside of the (3) that I mentioned above, the (3) other players that could fit that mold could be Fowler, Quinn & Beasley. Clowney and Griffen would fit the
5-tech/Leo role.
In event that they do end up with Griffen and Clowney, I do see that they could look to Irvin for that Leo role on passing downs as Clowney moves inside. My hope is to make that trade with JAC for Ngakoue, the “True Leo.” We’ll see.
I would personally want Clowney and Griffen, so we could use the 1st or 2nd render on something else. But Ngakoue for a 1st or 2nd wouldnt be so bad. You’re giving up a lot with 27, but you’re pairing Clowney with a legit pass rusher. You’ve resigned Reed and 3/4 of the DL are studs. Plus Poona on early downs and Clwoney sliding inside with Irvin on the edge on 3rd downs.
Right, those options are still available. JS & Co are working to accomplish what they set out to do, which is to make the team better, on both sides of the ball. The order in which they do this is really insignificant, when the goal is accomplished.
It’s just frustrating to see from a fan’s perspective, not knowing all the details behind the scene, in what really is being done, or negotiated. What I’ve seen JS pull out of the hat this past year, in retooling this roster, there is no doubt in my mind the goals will be accomplished, to improve not only the pass rush, but all of their glaring weaknesses.
Let’s be real here. They built a “Defense of a Decade.” Surely, their adept to know how to fix the pass rush. Personally, I still got out the popcorn enjoying the process, despite the dire scenarios that being projected. Can’t wait to see JS jig dancing above the stadium, (ala Last Boy Scout) after achieving those goals. It’s going to be fun to watch.
I guess it’s not surprising there didn’t seem to be any urgency towards the DL, given last year they didn’t have Ansah until May and were going with a bunch of mediocrity (or below) until Clowney fell into their lap 1 week before the season.
Since most of us feel the Hawks should’ve been more aggressive to this point, I’m curious to ask – which DL deals do you wish we had made so far?
Here’s mine
-Campbell for a 5th
-Emmanuel Ogbah (2yr @ 7.5m)
-Leonard Floyd (1yr @ up to 13m)
I honestly think Fowler (3yr @ 15m) and Quinn (5yr @ 14m) were overpriced
Good question Zane. We may have never had a chance at Campbell but it would have been nice. Ogbah maybe, no thanks on Floyd at that price. Not sure they ever wanted Fowler? Maybe the did but he always seemed like he wanted Atlanta.
I’d rather have Fowler and Quinn at 29m than Everson Griffen, Bruce Irvin and Benson Mayowa at about 18m.
But at least we have… Cedric Ogbuehi.
Im with you Rob. Theres still time for it to be ok, but Im gnawing nails down to a quick….
“ But at least we have… Cedric Ogbuehi.”
Hey! Hey! HEY, hang on a minute! — signed, Cedric Ogbuehi’s mom
Feeble joke aside, what would we have them do, not sign depth players of take a flier on a project?
Ansah didn’t work out, Avril did. You have to keep rolling the dice sometimes.
Assuming we never had a realistic chance at Campbell, I would have preferred Fowler on his eventual deal. He’s the right age and brings the speed/power combination our pass rush sorely needs!
It all makes sense now. It’s the inverse Tom Cable. We are signing afterthought OL and will convert them to DL!!!
Brilliant.
The best of humanity… everyone bringing masks, PPE gear to Seattle Children’s Hospital when they put out a call that they are in dire need of these items…. tens of thousands of N95 masks and plastic gloves showed up by the car full, donated….. by local area residents. Putting vulnerable people’s lives ahead of their own.
The worst of humanity…. twitter.
Don’t forget the idiots still having BBQs, parties etc
Additionally, don’t forget the Khmer Rouge, The Third Reich or The Oregon Ducks…
Lol!
I bet Rob has an alert set-up on his cell phone, that as soon as Clowney is officially signed by anyone… an “air raid siren” sound will “gently” wake him (and whole family) up within 5 seconds!
🙂
Wait, you don’t!? 😂
Know whats better than that? Asshats not hoarding med supplies in the first place…just sayin’….
If Goodell wasnt utterly incompetent, FA wouldnt be so weird…
If they’d draft Okwara #27, trade up in R2 for Davis and also get Zuniga/Greenard in R2, play Green/Collier at 5T and get Griffen would that be much worse than last year? Between the 3 rookie one of them must be OK and get us 5-6 sack. Griffen could give us 5-6 too. Reed will be better than last year, hopefully 5-6 sacks also. Green (or Collier) could also have 4-8 sacks. Not an ideal scenario but if they won’t land an A+ FA they might struck gold in the draft if they go heavy on DL. Wishful thinking…but gotta stay positive otherwise I’d ask to fire the whole FO as I’m getting pretty mad about their approach
“ If they land Clowney for a much cheaper price than expected and are then able to surround him with others (because don’t forget — keeping Clowney merely maintains the status quo of what was a bad line in 2019) — then we’ll all look back on this period and laugh at our impatience.”
I hope your are right about this, Rob. I am optimistic that Clowney will sign with Seattle.
We know Seattle offered him the best long-term deal. That was what the kind of aggressive approach you predicted. We also know that the only big money FA deal was for a DL (Reed) which also fits with your predictions.
If Clowney had accepted the best long-term offerright away, we would all be in agreement that everything is going according to expectations. But what was unpredictable by us was that Clowney has changed his goal to a shorter-term deal. We know Seattle is still negotiating and most experts are predicting Clowney will return to Seattle.
After that, they just need to sign a LEO who will perform better than Ansah to improve the starters from last year. The delay in the Clowney signing has meant a bunch of good FA LEOs are off the market. But, thy aren’t all gone. And let’s be honest, finding a LEO better than Ansah was in 2019 is a low bar.
Say Clowney does return and they add one more dline free agent.
Draft day comes. The panthers are on the clock. Isaiah Simmons is still on the board.
Do you make the move? We have two second round picks (great ammo).
I say no to trade up for Simmons
If hes still on the board there will probably be another opportunity to draft one of the top guys. Simmons still on the board there probably means Queen and Gay Jr. Are there and 27 and 1 might be there after a trade back.
If it’s me… I probably be bold and trade up. That doesn’t mean that someone wants to move down, but two firsts gets the conversation rolling. Still, you’re also going to have to sacrifice a pick to move way up in round two to get the tackle you needed to begin with, and that second 2 hopefully becomes Zuniga because you’re going to have to groom the next great edge player.
I’ve been refraining myself from commenting on Clowney’s negotiation stuff, but this is just too crazy and has gone on for too long.
I cant believe his market is 13M. 15-16M is understandable, given the question marks from other teams. I think it comes down to the length of the deal.
Initially we probably offered 18 5M per year for a long term deal, JC declined. Then, his market died. We kept our offer up for a few days and JC held out, and his market declined even more.
JC starts looking for short term deals. Seahawks are still competing to keep him no matter the contract. (That means something towards PCJS trying to keep Clowney).
Then we’re at present time, with no clarity lol. Does he still want a short contract? What’s his real price? The only thing we really know is that the Hawks have been “in” on Clowney this whole time. I dont think they will let him go. The fact hes possibly so cheap just helps us.
P.S. Everson Griffen is reportedly waiting on Clowney, then he will pick a team. So we could easily end up signing Clowney and Griffen. For cheap, too.
This all sounds about right. Who has reported Griffen is waiting for Clowney?
I may be way off here (likely), but, technically none of these guys has actually signed a contract, right? Didn’t I read that they can’t officially get these deals done until travel is allowed and physicals take place? Maybe they don’t even end up completing several of these deals once things are said and done. Of course that doesn’t solve anything when it comes to the real problem…the DL.
Depends on the situation. Tampa Bay and Tom Brady agreed to have an independent doctor do the physical to finalize the deal, but if teams want to use their own physicians, then yes deals can’t be finalized until facilities open up again.
Duh. That’s literally what happens every year. Teams need QB’s and pass on more talented players all the time. Some teams need an OL badly and they have the pick to get one. In response to Greg, Matt Calkins wrote an article today and basically said that he thinks Griffin is waiting to see where Clowney goes, which is annoying to me. They need to find a way to get both.
Do you honestly like Matt Calkins. I am curious. He is the worst sports writer Seattle has had in my opinion, and I am taking Adam Jude over him. He is just a sensationalist click-baiter imo.
It is fascinating to me to look back at drafts and see the QBs that teams gad to reach on over the guys that were can’t miss prospects. Example; Blaine Gabbert taken right in front of JJ Watt.
Yeah that’s pretty obvious. Brown was a game wrecker in college. It will be interesting to see if he continues to improve and is the next Aaron Donald.
Hey y’all, I know it’s hard times all around and we could use some good news from the FA market, but we’re getting too down on these signings!-
Still a lot of time left and a lot to do, but if it’s really in PCJS we trust, this the time to show it.
Watch these boys trade 27 for a LEO and resign Clowney to a 2/35 deal
Please on all that is good and holy…don’t lighten the mood
Or trade a 2nd for a LEO (Yannick!) & add Raekwon Davis as a DT/DE.
Just an interesting scenario, what if their plan is to draft Julian Okwara after trading down a little, then trade up and get Raekwon Davis after drafting Okwara?
I think Okwara can go top 20
I’m sippin’ that Kool-Aid still too.
Anyone seen much of Illinois DE Oluwole Betiku Jr? He reportedly ran a 1.59 second 10-yard split at his pro day. A possible late round project.
Per Pauline,
“Underclassman pass rusher Oluwole Betiku Jr, who was a surprise non-invite to the Combine, posted a 40-yard dash time of 4.62 seconds with a swift 10-yard split of 1.59 seconds. He touched 32 inches in the vertical jump and 9-foot-7 in the broad jump while his short shuttle timed 4.26 seconds and three-cone timed 7.33 seconds.
Betiku Jr, who measured 6-foot-3 and 249 pounds, did both defensive line and linebacker drills, though teams primarily project him to outside linebacker in the NFL.”
He was talked about in here a week or so ago.
Rodger that. Every time I blink there’s 300 new posts & another country on the ropes. Can’t keep up.
Do you remember the gist of it from the folks that saw him play?
My 2 cents from some watching this year:
dislike:
I simply do not like his first step, sometimes he looks glued to the ground. To that end, he’s inconsistent off the snap, but the pendulum swings both ways and sometimes he gets a good jump. Occasional Earl-esque shoulder-whiffs. Not the strongest, fastest, or smoothest (bend)… if you watch his highlights…he might remind you of OUR version of Ziggy Ansah…
like:
He stay with the play like you want out of a young player. He’ll work his way through blocks, stay active, peel-off to make tackles etc. He does have some moves, and I think his ceiling isn’t exactly a known quantity. You’ve got to take a flier given his personality as well. He seems like the kind of kid whose going to buy in to your system.
Overall: nothing about him screams starter, but that’s not what you’re ordering from his restaurant. Middle round rotational guy who could work his way to a solid career if he focuses on sharpening his pass rush arsenal. I think some people project him to be a better linebacker.
“…he might remind you of OUR version of Ziggy Ansah…”
Hahaha! Thanks James, that is funny.
John Schneider is always concern about the long term of Seattke Seahawks. That’s a good thing. But their is one problem. The Seahawks keep losing in the division round of the playoffs. Same old story every year.
Maybe 2020 will be 2013 all over again. Nobody expected the Seahawks to get bargain pass rushers in free agency like Bennett and Avril. Well, with Reed resigned, many might not have expected to get both Griffen and Clowney this late into free agency either. Who knows? I’m trying to be positive.
DE Griffen
DT Reed
DT Davis
DE Clowney
DL Depth and situational players: Irvin, Mebane, Poona, Green, Collier
Still a chance. In the above scenario, it would be two more FA signings and a second round pick. Could be done. That could leave two picks in the first two rounds on something else (like a RB, WR, OL, or LB or DB with some speed). Fingers crossed.
I agree there still is a chance. I was wondering how late in free agency it was when those guys fell in to our laps?
Trying to stay positive too. That front four would be damn near ideal at this point. This holding pattern is headscratching, with patience is wearing thin. Dominoes need to fall.
Ralphy- Avril was signed day 2 of ‘offical FA’. Bennett day 3. So last Thrusday and Friday.
Thanks Tecmo. I was thinking it was later than that. Now this feels even worse.
Matty Brown claim seahawks offered 2y 27mil to Clowney on march 17th…and he is more than sure its true and believes in his sources…
If its true, and I believe him, thats how much seahawks value him, they dont play any game and they are waiting response…if that offer is true and happened on march 17th, what are the chances they offered him 5mil more apy just day earlier…
This has much more sense for me, and goes much more in way John is working…
Its not like..we are giving you 18.5mil…oh wait market.is cold…stop, stop now.we are going to low ball you and we are giving you 5mil less..
Its just like Jonhs always does…set the value and doesnt want to go over it…
At least that is how i see it and now I am less pissed on John and Pete than before these news…and I am still pissed because they needed to do much more with pass rush 7th day of FA…
Sure. But you don’t know if those figures are accurate. At all.
I like Matty.
But my advice would be not to talk about ‘sources’ on Twitter.
I mean, as much as we have been wondering why JS hasn’t found a way to get this done yet, Clowney could be equally at fault if he’s still somehow blindly holding out hope for $20m/apy.
JS: Your best offer on the market is around $13.5m/apy, we’ll gladly match that for a 2-year deal, like we said we would, if short-term is what you’re after.
Clowney: I want $21m/apy.
JS: Ok, if you take a 4 year deal, we’ll meet you in the middle at $17.5m/apy.
Clowney: I really want the figure to start with a “2”.
JS: Tell you what, even though we’re bidding against ourselves at this point, we’ll even sweeten it a bit up to $18.5m/apy because we really want to bring you back. That’s way more than anyone else has offered.
Clowney: …
I don’t know if it went anything like that, but it just seems there should be a way to get this done. Give him the $20m figure, but heavily laden with incentives for games played, sacks, Pro Bowl/All Pro or something and back-loaded. If I understand correctly, whatever he didn’t get last year is considered “unlikely to be achieved” and wouldn’t count against the cap, right?
It’s easy to say we should just throw in the extra $1.5m if that is the difference. But if we have already “thrown in” $5m more than he’s getting anywhere else? Are we really the ones “insulting” Clowney if this were the case?
Then it’s easy to say we should just move on and sign someone else. But move on to whom? If Jags asking price for Yannick is still extravagent and Griffen is reportedly waiting on Clowney? Calais was set on the Ravens. Browns and Chargers ain’t gonna even pick up the phone for Miles Garrett or Joey Bosa. Matt Judon or Markus Golden…?Meh.
The waiting game is annoying as heck, but I guess it makes sense if they want to sign Clowney AND one of the other guys as well, which is what we’ve been calling for since the beginning (i.e. Clowney alone is not enough). If you bend and give Clowney 2yrs/$40m just to get it done, then even if the Jags lower their asking price to trade for Yannick, what’s Yannick going to ask for as far as contract?
At least that is the most sense I can make of it atm. Like everyone, I hope this doesn’t all blow up in their face. At the same time, I can understand how it might not all be on them.
Maybe my whole long ramble makes no sense at all, but neither does this off-season so far…
This is exactly how I see it as well. Nobody knows for sure what’s been said by either camp. The negativity on here is approaching Fieldgulls level.
No, it’s not. We’re just looking at both sides of the coin and taking our best guess.
And of course we’re all just speculating and don’t know what’s been said. Most likely it’s on both sides a little bit: Clowney for apparently over-estimating his market and not being willing to come to terms with reality, and perhaps the Seahawks as well for over-estimating the OL market and jumping that instead of the DL market.
Negativity within reason is tolerated and moderated pretty well, here.
Field Gulls cherry picks.
This needs to stop now.
I’m tired of people lazily saying ‘Field Gulls’ just because I’ve written a couple of articles questioning the front office.
Our Oline might be a nightmare lol
If we can’t rush the passer or protect Russ, we’re screwed
I dont see our OLine is worse than last year, and definitely didnt see oline as big problem last year. Losing of Brown would be huuuuge problem…everything else not so much…who were starers vs GB, Lt Fant, LG Jones, C Hunt, RG luker and RT Ifedi…and we played great 2nd half.on offense…the only real.wuestion mark is can Shell be at least like Ifedi…and based on last.season he can (not that it is to much of a problem 😬)
Agree. The line should be at least as below average as last year. If we can make the jump to above average or even just average then that would be huge for this team. Ifedi and Fant are not elite players.
But don’t they always play better 2nd halves in the playoffs when routinely being down 2-3 scores at the half?
One note on something i hade completely opposite opinion…
Guys who are tendered have zero dead cap…I thought their dad cap is cap hit for 2020…
So Hollister, Hunt etc are also potential candidates when we are speaking about cutting and making more cap space…
Seattle has between 20-30M of hidden cap space on the roster, just from guys they can cut. As Rob has mentioned, they can fit any contract they want on the roster….. that doesn’t include a re-do of a high priced deal by extending a player 1 more year (think how TB12 did NE a solid many years)
I agree that teams have some amount of hidden cap space, as you suggest, however its likely not as much as you say. If JS cuts all those players in order to gain an extra $20m in cap space, he still has to backfill those roster spots. For example, he cuts 10 guys to save $20m, but has to sign 10 lower priced guys to fill out the roster and they are making $10m. Only a $10 savings!
Obviously this is a simplified example, and we know that salary cap maneuvering is a complex science. The point is still valid that you cannot just cut all the tendered free agents and save that amount of cap space. Teams have to fill out their rosters, and they aren’t likely to be better off if half the roster is filled with league minimum guys.
Like you said it’s not that simple. All the RFA’s, the Hawks aren’t locked in to either cutting them loose or paying them the tender salary. They can negotiate a lower salary on those players to save some cap room.
But even if they cut the RFA’s loose, that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re going cheap. Cutting RFAs doesn’t automatically mean it’s a “good roster guy for scrub” swap. In some cases the Hawks have made provision to have depth already in place in order to make a call on keeping the RFA or negotiating him down.
Hollister for instance. He is likely replacing Dickson on the roster. So that’s a near-even swap for cap hits. So they’ve got Dissly, Olsen, Hollister and Willson (and maybe Draft Pick and Street Free Agent). So they’ve saved $3m cutting Dickson. They can look at Dissly’s health in camp and preseason and see how they feel.
Then they have 3 options with Hollister: Cut him (replace w roster scrub ($700k), save $2.5M + $3m Dickson), negotiate him down to say $2.2m (save $1m+$3m Dickson), or pay him the full tender (save $3m Dickson). Have they really lost a ton of performance at TE by taking steps to save cap $? Not really.
At center you’ve got Finney as a hedge for Hunt.
At WR you’ve got Ursua, Turner and an extremely deep draft class for Moore.
Agree. The only option that makes sense is to improve the position, offer Hollister league minimum or cut him. IMO, Dickson’s bad contract is irrelevant.
Agree about Dickson, they spent his money on Olsen. But that’s also a definite upgrade that “covers” a contingency for Hollister.
Just insurance while you try to improve those positions. Later, you can even rescind offer, pay less; if kept (doubtful), most will be offered league minimum.
I could mos def be wrong.
I see that Lance Zeirlein has the ‘hawk drafting yet another OL in his latest mock. Perhaps he thinks that they are trying to collect the set.
With clip of him moving to the second level with extreme agility:
https://twitter.com/JimNagy_SB/status/1242075978593193984
At this point, I just hope it ends today. Whether Clowney and Grifen sign with the Hawks or not, I just want it to be over haha so we can stop with the speculating and move on to the draft. On another note, how many of our free agents have signed somewhere? Are fant and Qjeff the only two?
Nothing on here is speculation..just opinions
Rob
Not that it matters, but since you found the need to reply that way, your statement is patently false. Im not saying that the article is speculation,per se,but everything that is being said in here is. Speculation is defined as forming an opinion without firm evidence. There is firm evidence that we have not sign Dl help, which we can have an opinion on, as Rob has made clear. But the rationale and the assertion that we aren’t trying, is an opinion without firm evidence. Having an opinion on PCJS’s inability to sign Clwney or Griffen or any other DL FA like we all believe they should. That in and of itself is speculation sir. Me making the simple statement for hope that the situation gets clearer today, should not be an issue garnering such a reply.
Will we get the news on DE today? we were expecting fire works on D-Line signing and got thud
Its not just the DL, the D has been neglected entirely (with additions) aside from one aging situational pass rusher.
I am completely at a loss. This defense was bad, really bad at times. The approach thus far has been nothing.
PJ Walker just signed with CAR. Interesting because they already have Kyle Allen and Will Grier backing up the newly signed Teddy Bridgewater.
Played at Temple for Matt Rhule.
Sea Mode,
Makes total sense to me. I’m wondering how CAR will do things. I don’t see them carrying 3 QBs and what happens to Grier. I know Rhule didn’t draft him, so he could mean nothing to him
That’s kind of a bummer, I wanted him to come to Seattle or go somewhere where he has a more of a chance to start.
Maybe Will Grier gets cut now and we could bring him in to compete for the back up job? Had a horrible time when he was out there last year, but he was still a player many on here were high on, myself included. That said I bet they keep all 4 guys on the roster during the preseason (or whatever happens instead).
Chicago would have been fun.
Exactly what I was thinking
Kyle Allen just traded to Washington
No more Kyle Allen, they traded him to Washington for a 5th.
Rob, with the signing of Melvin Gordon in Denver, do you think that makes Royce Freeman a trade candidate and if so is that someone the Seahawks may consider?
I’ve never been much of a fan of Freeman.
Still looking up at the 49ers and Saints who took care of business. Eagles, Falcons, Cardinals, others get better, while PCJS take half measures to not get worse.
In reference to the late great Kenny Roger’s song. Know when to hold em…know when to fold em. This definitely a high stakes poker hand and we cant see all the cards. I trust PC/JS gonna pull something off. Until they dont just gonna relax and wait for my smartphone ESPN Audio Alert. Lol
Seahawk 80: Rule number one. Never play poker with John Schneider. If anyone knows how to hold them and when to fold them. It is John Schneider. If John Schneider ever sits down at the poker table. Get up take your money and run. JS will clean your clock and he will empty your pockets. Otherwise all your poker chips will end up on his side of the table.
And we know which hands (players, picks, trades) they’ve lost? How? Seems they gambled and lost, just last draft.
They fleeced Bill O’Brien. Who else?
Not to be a negative Nellie, has the roster gotten better or worse over the last 3 years?
Detroit for Diggs. Schneider is good.
The business that the 49ers and Saintsvhsd to take care of was a) easier and b) different than the business the Seahawks had to take fare of.
So different in face that it’s not apples and oranges but apples and broccoli.
Spelling errors, grrrrr.
Stupid gadget and remote location cell coverage lag, sorry
17 All Pro selections in that 2013 draft.
Many busts, but some real stars, too.
I was thinking about something today…last year was one of the.strongest DL classes (top 1st round talent)…and we spoke we need to.use that and take DL with 1st pick…this year class is much much weaker …
But…I wondered something…player who will be available at the end of 1st round this year, is he gonna be much weaker than player who was available at the end of 1st round last year…LJ was 11th DL ,6th DE/Edge last year at 29th…this year because of strong OT and WR class maybe 5th DL and 2nd DE/Edge will be there…
Ways for the Seahawks to create cap space beside Britt and Wright. If/when we finally sign Clowney hopefully Griffen could come shortly there after. How could we create more cap space to sign Griffen without touching Britt or Wrights contract. Here is an option.
If we do end up keeping Britt as his current contract (probably doubtful) then there is really no need at that point for Joey Hunt as they would have BJ Finney as a backup center. If they sign Clowney and Griffen there would be no need for Branden Jackson so this is what we could do.
Pull the tenders for Jackson and Hunt and save $2.133 million each.
Release Ed Dickson and Tedric Thompson.
Restructure Russell Wilson contract by turning his base salary into a signing bonus.
If you take his $18 million salary and drop it down to $1 million then spread the remaining $17 million over the remaining 4 years
Here is what you could get.
Dickson…$3.0
Tedric Thompson…$2.133
Joey Hunt…$2.133
Branden Jackson…$2.133
Russell Wilson…$12.75
Total…$22.15
You could even negotiate Hollister’s $3.259 million down to save more.
Now every time you remove a player from the top 51 cap hit’s you have to add another player in nullifying some of the cap savings. Just some ides on how to create some more cap space if they need it.
You.forgot to calculate minimum base salary for tendered players…so.for.everyone need to subtract 750k…
It look like you didnt forget , you just wrote in last sentence that…fuck sorry…I need edit button so bad…
Rob just delete all of my answers…I am reading from my phone and sometimes I just dont read correctly whole post…
There’d be some dead money for Tedric and Dickson due to injury settlement, but those are all good thoughts.
It wouldn’t shock me if they extended Britt for couple seasons to reduce his cap hit.
I could see that as well with Britt. They have the luxury of seeing him all the time to know how he is doing with his rehab. You are right about the injury settlement which is why they probably havent been released yet. I dont think that goes into the off-season top 51 numbers though. It enters some time when the season starts. I was just letting people know there is ways to create cap space beside cutting Britt and Wright. If they did do lets say a two year extension with Britt maybe it would lower his hit by say $5 million a year? Just taking a guess.
I could see $5m lowered for 2020 but going forward it would still be in the $9m-10m range annually to “pay” for the 2020 room.
I meant just for 2020.
I think we’ll see both Britt and KJ have their contracts restructured to more reasonable 2 year deals. Ed Dickson will be released once he can pass a physical. Tedric Thompson should be traded for a late round draft pick or included in a package deal as he has some value. I think Lano Hill may also be in the same position, but he has less value, and I can see them carrying him into the season – PC does really seem to like him! Pocic may not have any value left at all, so he probably just gets released once he can pass a physical as well.
I do think all 3 of the new OL are hedges as Rob has said on here. And while the money is a little more than we expected, I think any of the 3 could be moved/released in training camp depending on what they do in the draft…
I think if you base salary into signing bonus,that bonus need.to.be spread equaly on all years. You cant leave ot.on 1mil this year. If you spread on 2020 to 2022 then cap.hit for.this year would.be 6mil and would.save 12. If spred on 2020 to 2023 then cap hit would be 4.5mil abd would save 13.5mil.
Sorry, didnt see corectly what you wrote…yes you are right …but think no.need to.leave anything on base salary…
Someone mentioned trying to sign both Clowney and Griffin. If we can sign both Griffen and Clowney. Great! Folks. Now is the time to be bold. It’s time to go for the Gold. Russell WIlson wants add stars. So do I. I am tired of losing in the divisional playoffs. As Mike Holmgren would say. It is NOW time.
BTW: Brock Huard was taking about JS. He said there is very few fans that have the patience that JS has. Including all the talking heads at 710 KIRO.
Huard went on the say that with all these offensive linemen being sign. It means two things. First after the 1st tier of linemen are taking the drop off is like falling off a cliff. Brock was also talking about the running backs and receivers.
One last point. WIth all the receiving talent in this division. Plus the entire NFC(the Sainst just added Emanuel Sanders) . Not only that. But with all the receiving talent in this draft. The Hawks desperately need to add at the cornerback position. Trey Flowers, Shaq Griffin and Ugo Amandi are not enough to get the job done. They need help.
Social distancing: no more than 10 people in a group at once
Me: what will happen to Phillip Rivers’ family?
https://youtu.be/QDYF_nu2I4M
😂😂 Just missing the bolo tie and him hollering from the toilet.
There really is a Simpsons meme or GIF for anything.
Checking in. Nope. Nothing of note.
This situation needs a healthy dose of Ex Lax.
I keep thinking… surely this situation ends today. They’ll do something.
Same answer every day.
Rob. If it’s over the line I apologize. Just hope you and your family are okay during this Covid-19 virus. Physically and Financially (employment) being that your in sports entertainment industry. My prayers and well wishes
Unfortunately, it could be a while I’m afraid. If I put myself in Clowney’s shoes I would dig my heels in. The offer on the table might be the minimum I would sign for, so why not wait and see what happens? Maybe there will be an injury before the season and all of a sudden my price will do up. I can’t see the price or interest completely fading away. Someone will bite at some point. Athletes are supremely confident and will bet on themselves any time they’re given a chance.
I’m. So. Freaking. Bored. I don’t usually do this, but I’m doing my own mock draft because… what else is there to keep my mind off of the global state of affairs? I’m a teacher who is bored out of his mind and actually misses his students and a coach who doesn’t know when he will see his players again. My gf is a nurse and we have seen more of each other than she may have bargained for. 😂 At least the dogs are happy to see me around. I’m using Pauline’s big 300 board as a loose reference.
27: Trade! Colts trade up from 34 to nab Eason and give up their third, (75). With pick 34 the Seahawks take… Isaiah Wilson. He could go earlier, but I can also see him start the run in round two. If he slips past Minnesota and Tennessee, boom.
50: Trade! Bears want more picks so they take the 64th and 144th, (4th) to slide up. With the 50th pick, the Seahawks select… Jabari Zuniga. After his unfortunate, injury-plagued 2019, he was probably sitting as a 4th round selection. However, his health must be back to normal if he killed the combine like that. He needs refinement in his technique, (he needs a counter-move in the worst way), but his physically and athleticism are really good and we have seen him produce when healthy in the SEC. calculated move, but he won’t probably last until our natural selection. First two picks, they address the edges.
59: No trade here, (sorry folks), but they still get a player who can help them in… Hunter Bryant. I wanted to go WR here but I fear that the run on receivers proves to be not a great fit in round two. We can address that a little later, but Hunter fits a specific need for this offense.
75: Jeff Gladney, TCU corner back: This dude is a flat out fighter who has athletic traits to win in man to man or zone. Arms are 31 7/8. He ran sub 4.5 and has a 37.5 vertical leap. He’s a kid who can compete with flowers on the outside, but probably take Ahmadi’s job in the slot. He’s always out-leaping people for balls and he’s got the speed and quickness to be sticky against almost any receiver. They have never drafted a corner before the third round, (Shaq), and that worked out pretty well with him.
133: Logan Wilson/Akeem Davis-Gaither: Personally, I wanted to take Davis-Gaither, but his arms aren’t at least 32 inches and he’s a little light. He’s a player, though. He’s actually an alpha-male in every game film I watched of him. He’s in love with contact and getting after people who have the misfortune of carrying the rock. Still, if we have learned anything it’s the Hawks love their measurables. Logan has the requisite reach and agility to make this pick a a surprise gem in round 4. If one goes earlier than the other, this pick flips and obviously, things are always fluid.
162: (via Pitt) Robert Hunt, OT ULL: I wouldn’t normally think that he would fall to this spot, but he didn’t work out at the combine and that’s going to hurt him now. On film, he’s great against lower level of competition. The feet are decent, he needs to get more violent with his hands in pass pro, but he’s great at turn and seal in the run game. I think he’s going to be able to anchor really well, and again, the hand-technique is going to be worked on, but he’s going to have time. He and Wilson are the eventual bookends for this team once brown retires/moves on in two years. Some think he can kick inside and he can… but I think he can play tackle at the next level and who is to say that Wilson can slide over to LT someday?
214: Adrian Killins Jr., RB UCF: Hail Mary time. He doesn’t fit the prototypical Seahawks back, and that is okay at pick 214. He’s small. He’s also fast as hell and can help you in the screen game as well. He’s a change of pace, return man, weapon X. If you’re drafting in the 6th round, you’re looming for something that your roster currently lacks and this is it. He just makes big plays for his team. He’s tiny, and he won’t run anyone over. Still, what’s wrong with putting him back at punt return and giving Lockett a deserved break? He’s going to make some plays next year if given a chance. Might as well be for the Seahawks, right? Besides, I’ve had my eye on a certain FA pickup named Sewo Olonilua from TCU, and despite his off field issues and testing numbers, looks a lot like Chris Carson, (without the injury history). As for Adrian, he’s the movable piece this offense needs. Besides, who doesn’t want to utter the phrase “Killins me softly” the first time he runs one back to the house on a punt return against the Niners?
So as you can see, my emphasis on securing the lines shines through. Can’t win if you can’t control the edges and cant get mismatches on offense if you don’t have the prices, (Hunter and Killins). The WR didn’t come through with the way the board fell, and I wanted Willie Gay badly, but we managed to fill that need later.
I liked this. Thanks for the effort!
Just looked at Amari Cooper’s contract and it’s kind of fascinating. It was reported at 5/$100M, which it is.
How it breaks down is $10M signing bonus pro-rated over 5 years, plus base salary of $10M followed by 4 years of $20M. Only the first two years are guaranteed though. So after year 2, the dead cap hit goes from $6M->$4M-.$2M from years 3-5.
Also interesting that Buckner and Brady got no signing bonus, but large roster bonuses. Buckner’s contract was $96M, but he can be cut free and clear after next year… no dead money.
Drives home the point that the only number that matters is the guaranteed amount and that you can really manipulate the cap hit on longer deals (4+ years)
John Clayton said that no way the Hawks would sign both Clowney and Griffen.
And he’s sticking to it! Until he doesn’t.
I like John Clayton, but I’m not sure why he’d say that? If we resign Clowney and merely add Irvin, that’s only a small upgrade to one of the worst pass rushes in the league.
But we all know this.
He also said there was “no chance” SEA would trade for Clowney last season. I respect John and enjoy listening to him, but he gets a ton of things wrong. Including names.
What? You mean Unique Goowockie isn’t how you say it?
Or Will Tukuoakoafouku! It’s that damn database, man.
Utahr Gross Mah-Toast! 😂😂
Something tells me if they didn’t want to try to sign both they would have ponied up and secured one by now. I think they’re taking a gamble and trying to negotiate with Clowney to get him on a bargain deal.
I’d say there’s no way they’d go into next season hoping Bruce Irvin is the difference maker this team lacked in 2019.
Not sure I believe a word that Clayton says anymore. Yeah he has a lot of NFL contacts but most of what he says isnt even close.
Do you guys think the OL signed now are more of competition and half of them will be cut?
Personally, I think SEA plans to have 9 OL on the field along with Russ and Carson to go really heavy on the run package.
A bit of that, and also a bit of freeing them up some to spend their top picks on weapons for RW and the offense and shoring up the D with possibly a LB, CB, or DT.
Generally they have kept 9 offensive lineman in the past. What could it look like at this point?
Locks:
Brown
Shell
Finney
Ogbuehi (depends on the details)
You would think they make it:
Haynes
Fluker
Jones
Not sure:
Britt
Hunt
Pocic
Outside looking in:
Warmack
What do you guys think?
Some of them can play DL 🙂
Maybe, we can try some reverse Sweezy and Sokoli?
Do we have it confirmed the roster expands to 55 this year or is that in 2021?
That will make a difference for OL.
I’m the midst of waiting here are my top five players I want the Seahawks to draft first.
1. Caesar Ruiz
Cut Britt to fit Clowney and Griffen under the cap. Draft this guy and get quality center play for four/five years. I’m tired of seeing Russell having to operate behind subpar interior linemen.
2. Isaiah Wilson
To me this is the dream Ifedi replacement. He’s not as polished technically as Ruiz. And he was overshadowed at the combine by the insane testing numbers from Becton and Whirfs. But I view Wilson as an athletic freak who is almost an ideal nfl right tackle.
3. Lloyd Cushenberry
I love the idea of replacing Britt with a really good rookie so much that I’d be happy taking Cushenberry if Ruiz is already off the board (which is likely)
4. Willie Gay Jr.
On this blog earlier there was a discussion about trading up for Isaiah Simmons. The other day Rob discussed Logan Wilson.
Linebacker isn’t a top priority for us, but Gay Jr. is a player who could immediately improve the defense at SAM linebacker and could be an eventual KJ replacement. Why take him over a defensive linemen or pass rusher? I just don’t like the value of the pass rushers that would be available here. I’d rather address that at the end of round 2.
5. Grant Delpit
While safety is probably even a lesser need than linebacker, Rob has continually talked about how the defense in general needs an infusion of talent. Well, here is an infusion of talent at great value if he lasts. I view both Diggs and McDougald as good but not great players. Delpit can add pop to a defense that just needs playmakers.
Notice no pass rushers? I’ve been watching tape on Raekwon Davis, Julian Okwara and the Florida duo, and I wouldn’t touch any of them before round 2. This is why signing clowney back is so critical, and it’s also why I believe they should make a push to sign Griffen.
Clowney situation is concerning. Wouldn’t this cause a rift between FO and Player. In general Hawks FO is black and white in dealing with their star players. I am thinking chances of retaining Clowney is less than 25% and he is waiting for a chance to visit other teams.
It’s gone on so long now I wonder if Clowney is resenting Seattle somewhat
Why wouldn’t he? Played through injury last year and seemed to be putting the team first and now the Hawks (at least so it seems) are trying to lowball him because teams can’t bring him in to do medicals etc.
Maybe there is more to it and his contract demands are crazy but it does not seem like the kind of situation or negotiation that ends with two happy parties.
Very true.
And add to that the fact that as of now, the Seahawks have done next to nothing to improve the talent level around him.
If he wants a prove it deal, he’d be crazy to come back to Seattle and expect to have a significantly better year statistically than last year
Why should he though? Cause the Seahawks won’t give him $20m per year just like no other team will?
IMO they need to meet somewhere in the middle, it’s not only on the Seahawks.
I’m sure they’ve tried, but I would say get creative, give him 4 years “up to” $80m so he hits his $20m/apy mark (at least in the media reports), but in exchange make it incentive laden and flexible in favor of our cap.
Personally, I think this logjam is because the big money player at the time is taking his sweet time to sign. It will all fall into place once Ifedi finally signs.
😂
About the be the highest paid right tackle in the league. That only makes sense the way this off-season is going.
Since the day the season ended I have thought the Hawks chances on bringing back Clowney were less then 25%. I wanted them too but just did not think it was a realistic option.
My thinking though was that once a big name guy hits the open market the Hawks never seem to want to get into a price war. My assumption was the first day of free agency that a team would come in with a crazy offer and Clowney would be gone then the team would look at other options.
I never dreamed the exact opposite would happen. Clowney gets little interest on the open market. All the other secondary options (excluding Griffen) would sign and somehow the Hawks still don’t have a deal done. Simply inexcusable IMO given the dearth of pass rush talent on the roster. Unless something comes out about Clowney’s medicals or he had completely unrealistic contract demands $23 mil + APY then I think this is a huge blunder by the Hawks front office no matter how thing play out going forward.
This front office has always been aggressive fixing roster weak spots and had no problem doing a fair deal for players it valued (Kam, Russ, Wags the list goes on). What has changed this off season? Clearly something is amiss or they really don’t value Clowney or view him as the fit we all assumed.
Anyways I just wish they would get on with it one way or another now.
Clowney takes advantage of the Seahawks’ promise not to tag him.
Seahawks take advantage of Clowney’s promise to let them match whatever offer he gets.
In the meantime, Seahawks fans out here kicking rocks…
Never saw where Clowney promised to let Seattle match.
I saw where John Schneider was asked if he would ask Clowney to let them match any offer; and he said ofcourse he would.
So I’m leaning towards Clowney getting tired of Seahawks negotiating.
Can see him taking 1year somewhere else.
Unfortunately we’re forced to speculate.
If Clowney truly want long term at 20m per and we actually offered 18.5 awhile back; then this should have been done. A 1.5M difference is not worth the risk.
I know all of us want it over soon. However, if i find we lost Clowney over just 1.5M, i will see this as a blown opportunity this offseason Seattle. I assumed Clowney would be gone on a contract at 21M per year.
Anyone see this article from a Titan’s blog?
https://titansized.com/2020/03/22/everything-know-tennessee-titans-jadeveon-clowney/
I hope it’s not true, but we should hear something in the not too distant future according to this.
Go Hawks!
This guys seems to have written a whole piece based on Inkzone guy who said yesterday Clowney was signing for Tennessee and here we are and it hasn’t happened.
In breaking news, “the Seahwks trade a conditional 7th and Ogbuehi to the Texans for JJ Watt.” The headline reads, “I’m surprised O’Brien got that much.” Man I am bored and no news yet on the Seahawk front. This isolation is killing me.
Pauline’s site now has a mock simulator. Thought it would be a nice way to pass my lunch break… Welp, it’s not exactly flawless. Here it is, if you want to feel like a wizard GM
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/mock-draft-simulator/
After trades, here’s your new Seahawks, lol.
SEA 57. Raekwon Davis DT Alabama trade
SEA 59. Jabari Zuniga DE Florida
SEA 64. Isaiah Wilson OT Georgia
SEA 73. Clyde Edwards-Helaire RB LSU trade
SEA 75. Prince Tega Wanogho OT Auburn trade
SEA 98. Brandon Aiyuk WR Arizona State trade
SEA 142. Logan Stenberg G Kentucky trade
SEA 144. Hakeem Adeniji OT Kansas
SEA 162. Thaddeus Moss TE LSU
SEA 172. Trevis Gipson DE Tulsa trade
SEA 229. John Reid CB Penn State trade
Just saw this. I got Okwars, Raekwon Davis and Isaih Wilson thought with out three picks. Probably not that great.
I could be totally wrong, but talking deal with the Dolphins was just a ploy to get leverage with the more competitive teams he wanted to play with.
It is being reported that XFL standout QB P.J Walker is signing with the Carolina Panthers.
My Face = : /
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
·
5 Min.
This should be done soon. Jenkins back after eight sacks last year for the #Jets.
Manish Mehta
@MMehtaNYDN
· 2 Std.
Source: Jets are closing in on a deal with OLB Jordan Jenkins.
A big move for NYJ to bring back their sack leader from last year.
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
·
4 Min.
The #Jets are re-signing OLB Jordan Jenkins on a 1-year deal worth $5M, source said. After a career-high in sacks, he’s back at the table next year.
More fallback options leaving the board…
Mariota (2yr/$17.6m) and Agholor to Raiders.
Dion Lewis to Giants.
Da heck are the Hawks doing? 😡
That is a healthy contract for a backup QB. I wonder if Jameis believes he’s going to get that from someone. He’s out of options to start but Marriotta gets that? Phew!
Is Mariota, when healthy, better than Carr? That’s my question.
Heaven;s no.
Would people by mad at this or happy or ehh? I would imagine something like this wouldnt happen until camp.
Extend Justin Britt for two years $16 million essentially giving him a 3 year $24.25 million deal. You could make $6.25 million of it guaranteed and it could look like this with a $5 million signing bonus and $1.25 million base salary for 2020.
Year——–Base Salary———-SB Proration———————–Option Bonus———Cap Hit
2020———–$1.25———–$1.66 (new) + ($1.25 old)——–$1.66——————$5.83
2021————$7 mill—————$1.66——————————$1 mill per game—$9.66
2020————$9 mill—————$1.66——————————$1 mill per game—$11.66
The $1 mill per game are roster bonuses he gets per game on the active roster ($62,500 per game)
This would drop his cap hit in 2020 from $11.4 million down to about $5.8 (about $5.6 million cap savings in 2020.
Im so bored thought I would throw this out there. Good thoughts? Bad thoughts welcome.
I’d be OK with that on principle. He gets more security and more of his 2020 salary up front, and gets the test the market again at 32 if he wants to try for one more nice contract.
I guess my big thing would be what is the objective in doing this? Gaining $5m to just dole it out to backbencher rosterfill isn’t reason enough. Taking that $5m and packaging it with some more cap room to get aggressive to fill pass rush needs? Oh yeah, now you’re talking.
Well the idea would be you do something with it. I would guess thought that a move like this would be later in camp giving them some cap space for flexibility purposes going into the season. Or now maybe to pay Dunbar…lol
To be honest, I wonder if this is the scenario currently:
1) Clowney just trying to “wait and see” if a better offer arrives. If not, a 1 year OR sign a 3-4 year at 18.5mill as has been reported from the Hawks.
2) Hawks already have a deal in place for Nkagoue with Jags.
3) The structure of the 4 year deal with Nkagoue is waiting on Clowney’s decision.
4) Resign Woods or Mebane at 1/3 Tech
5) Griffen and Suh/Poe/?? are the consolation prizes in rotation at DE & 3Tech if Clowney doesn’t sign. Leave the 5/7 Tech to Green and Collier
I’m pretty sure Jacksonville aren’t happily sitting on a trade, just waiting for us to take our time with Clowney.
Happily..no. Reluctantly, maybe. I don’t disagree, but maybe the market for Nkagoue is/was similar to Clowney and never developed beyond a Seattle offer. In that we are still a month away from the draft, is having the picks today in their hand necessary or maybe we were waiting for another piece (could Tre or Quil be part of the Nkagoue trade?)
Josina, with no mention of her phone…
6015, 201, 32 5/8 arm, 79 wing, 4.44 40yd, 35 VJ, 10’0″ BJ, 4.16 SS, 7.10 3C
Started 11 games for WAS last season.
Slot or outside?
Outside
He was the second ranked cornerback through week 17 only behind Sherman, per PFF
#2 rated CB per PFF
4 INT, 8 PD in 11 games last season. (went on IR with a hamstring injury)
Has 1 year, $3.4m left on his contract.
Looks like another situation of Seattle scooping up a discontent player:
https://riggosrag.com/2020/02/10/redskins-cb-quinton-dunbar-wants-traded-released-2020/
There was talk floated about going and getting Von Miller in trade earlier this offseason.
That possibility has been extinguished, right? Between his 2020 cap hit of $17m and Denver getting aggressive in the FA/trade market, they don’t appear to be stripping down for a rebuild.
Or am I reading that wrong?
I love that move for Dunbar. Nothing too excitinf, but that one & BJ Finney have been my favorite moves from Seattle so far.
I am with you. LOVE the Dunbar and Finney signings!
For those who care…Quinton Dunbar 27 years old. Will turn 28 in July.
Travis Frederick now retiring from the NFL at age 29.
Cowboys only gain about $600k in cap space. Actually close to a net $0 once you fill his roster spot with a guy making around $600k.
Just did the mock draft simulator on Pauline’s site:
27. Jalen Reagor WR – TCU
59. Neville Gallimore DT – Oklahoma
64. Jabari Zuniga DE – Florida
101. Willie Gay Jr. OLB – Mississippi State
133. Michael Ojemudia CB – Iowa
144. Logan Stenberg G – Kentucky
162. Hakeem Adeniji OT – Kansas
214. Lamar Jackson CB – Nebraska
I would actually like this draft very much. I think I did a helluva job!
Obviously, I did this draft right before I found out about signing Quintin Dunbar.
Wonder if they could start with Griffin and Dunbar on the outside in base and then put Griffin in the slot in nickel and put Flowers on the outside? Griffin has good size to play nickel.
I actually like the idea of having Griffen as our nickel.
In this scenario he would just be part time nickel/part time outside.
Works for me! Versatility wins the day…and messes with the OC’s mind!
May need to look elsewhere, than Shaq. Thought Slay would be ideal because of his excellent man coverage. We’ll see that if, and when they play the Eagles. The draft may provide competition for Ugo to man the nickel when covering smaller, shifting WRs.
Quinton Dunbar is starting material that will compete with Flowers for a starting position. Love what they’re doing so far, by creating competition at their needy positions. Nickel is another need, and obviously the big elephant in the room, the DE positions. Hopefully, that’s next.
Expect TT to be released as a result this. Great get though.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gkrzB43TEXU
They are going to have to do some maneuvering though to be able to sign Clowney and even more to get Clowney and Griffen. According to Over the Cap they had about $18.3 million in cap space but that doesnt figure in Irvin, Shell, Ogbuehi, Warmack Willson or Dunbar. Warmack and Willson will be so low that its not even worth computing as they can give each of the an MSB contract. If you guesstimate it could look like this.
Starting $18.3:
Ogbuehi…Its been reported that his contract is up to $3.3 million but we dont know what that means so for arguments sake we will put his cap hit at $2 million
Shell…He signed a two year $11 million deal so if we take a guess maybe his cap hit will be at $4.5 million in 2020
Irvin…He made about $4 million last year so lets just go with that.
Dunbar…we know his cap hit is about $3.4 million
Guesstimate Total…$13.9 million
Now when we add these four players into the equation we have to remove 4 guys from the list to fit them in under the top 51. Those 4 to remove would be:
John Ursua $695k
Bryan Mone…$674k
Demetrius Knox…$612k
Justin Johnson…$612k
Total…$2.6 million
Total net cap space taken…$11.3
Subtract that from $18.3 and that leaves us with about $7 million left.