Headlines
— Haason Reddick (LB, Temple) measured nicely at 6-1 4/8, 237lbs with 32 1/8 inch arms. He is an early round option for Seattle, possibly at #26.
— Rasul Douglas (CB, West Virginia) passes the 32-inch arms test, as does Marquez White of FSU.
— Cam Sutton (CB, Tennessee) has 29.5 inch arms at 5-11, 182lbs. Ouch. Tre’Davious White (CB, LSU) at 31.5 inches.
— Antonio Garcia (T, Troy) only weighs in at 293lbs amid concerns he struggles to retain weight. This is very light for a NFL tackle. He also only has 32 7/8 inch arms despite being 6-6.
— Adam Bisnowaty (T, Pittsburgh) only has 32.5 inch arms and faces a move inside to guard
— Forrest Lamp (T, Kentucky) is a T-Rex with 31 inch arms
— Dion Dawkins (T, Temple) 34.5 inch arms but is under 6-4 in height
— Dan Feeney (G, Indiana) measured well at 6-4, 304lbs with +10 inch hands and 33-inch arms.
For a full list of measurements, click here
The following players declined invites to the Senior Bowl: Jonathan Allen, Reuben Foster, Jordan Leggett, Deshaun Watson, Mike Williams, Corey Davis, Taco Charlton, Dede Westbrook, Pat Elflein, Wayne Gallman, Kevin King and Cordrea Tankersley. Some of these players are carrying injuries.
Chidobe Awuzie will not participate due to a toe injury. Takk McKinley is also out with a shoulder injury that may require surgery. Eddie Jackson, Chad Kelly, Seth Russell and Marcus Maye are also hurt but are in Mobile to meet with teams.
Length/size notes (key positives in bold)
Remember — the key for Seattle is 32 inches for an outside corner. There may be wiggle room (31.5?) in the slot.
Haason Reddick (LB, Temple): 32 1/8 inch arms
Corn Elder (CB, Miami) — 30 7//8 inch arms
Evan Engram (TE, Ole Miss — 10 inch hands, 32 3/8 inch arms
Justin Evans (S, Texas A&M) — 30 7/8 inch arms
Daeshon Hall (EDGE, Texas A&M) — 34 5/8 inch arms
O.J. Howard (TE, Alabama): 10 inch hands, 33 7/8 inch arms
Zach Banner (T, USC): 33 5/8 inch arms
Adam Bisnowaty (T, Pittsburgh): 11 2/8 inch hands, 32 5/8 inch arms
Dion Dawkins (T, Temple): 34 5/8 inch arms
Rasul Douglas (CB, West Virginia): 32 1/8 inch arms
Dan Feeney (G, Indiana): 33 1/8 inch arms
Jaleel Johnson (DT, Iowa): 32 6/8 inch arms
Jourdan Lewis (CB, Michigan): 31 inch arms
Antonio Garcia (T, Troy): 32 7/8 inch arms
Tre’Davious White (CB, LSU): 31 4/8 inch arms
Cam Sutton (CB, Tennessee): 29 2/8 inch arms
Carlos Watkins (DT, Clemson): 33 4/8 inch arms
Ryan Anderson (LB, Alabama): 31 3/4 inch arms
Taylor Moton (T, Western Michigan): 33 1/8 inch arms
Dawuane Smoot (EDGE, Illinois): 32 6/8 inch arms
Chris Wormley (DT, Michigan): 33.5 inch arms
Obi Melifonwu (S, Connecticut): 32 5/8 inch arms
Weigh-in notes (key positives in bold)
Haason Reddick (LB, Temple): 6-1 4/8, 237lbs
Rasul Douglas (CB, West Virginia): 6-2, 204lbs
Ryan Anderson (LB, Alabama): 6-2 1/8, 258lbs
Ben Boulware (LB, Clemsom): 6-0, 236lbs
Matt Dayes (RB, NC State): 5-8 5/8, 207lbs with +10-inch hands, 29 1/4 inch arms
Gerald Everett (TE, South Alabama): 6-3, 227lbs with small 8 1/4 inch hands
Antonio Garcia (T, Troy): 6-6 3/8, 293lbs
Dalvin Tomlinson (DT, Alabama): 6-3, 312lbs
Tre’Davious White (CB, LSU): 5-11, 191lbs
Cam Sutton (CB, Tennessee): 5-11, 182lbs
Jordan Willis (EDGE, Kansas State): 6-3 6/8, 255lbs
Jamaal Williams (RB, BYU): 6-0, 211lbs
Carlos Watkins (DT, Clemson): 6-3 5/8, 312lbs
Evan Engram: (TE, Ole Miss): 6-3 1/8, 236lbs
Corey Clement (RB, Wisconsin): 5-10 2/8, 221lbs
Dan Feeney (G, Indiana): 6-4, 304lbs
Dion Dawkins (T, Temple): 6-3 7/8, 317lbs
Ryan Glasgow (DT, Michigan): 6-2 7/8, 299lbs
Kareem Hunt (RB, Toledo): 5-10 4/8, 208lbs
Jaleel Johnson (DT, Iowa): 6-2 7/8, 309lbs
Desmond King (CB, Iowa): 5-10 1/8, 206lbs
Cooper Kupp (WR, Eastern Washington): 6-1 4/8, 198lbs
Jourdan Lewis (CB, Michigan): 5-10, 188lbs
Obi Melifonwu (S, Connecticut): 6-4, 219lbs
Taylor Moton (T, Western Michigan): 6-5 3/8, 330lbs
Dawuane Smoot (EDGE, Illinois): 6-2 7/8, 255lbs
Jeremy Sprinkle (TE, Arkansas): 6-4 6/8, 256lbs
Chris Wormley (DT, Michigan): 6-5 3/8, 297lbs
Not as impressed w/ Garcia (narrow waist), Lamp (short arms – 31 1/8"), & Pocic (avg lower half). Catwalk just part of the process of course https://t.co/hedPmj4My0
— Rob Rang (@RobRang) January 24, 2017
Haason Reddick/Temple: 6014/237lbs
32 1/8 arms. 10 3/8 hands. Looked awesome.— Tony Pauline (@TonyPauline) January 24, 2017
I’m looking forward to watching Josh Dobbs QB Tennessee. I watched their bowl game and he looked good. Perhaps a late round flyer.
Antonio Garcia 32 7’8″ arms – a little disappointing. Some teams will be talking OG with him too.
With the lack of length and physical run blocking nature, he doesn’t seem like a likely target for the Hawks in R1.
Agreed. A name we can likely move on from.
Agree completely. Have you watched anything on Julien Davenport? Great length
Well, since we’re on the topic of measurements… here’s a guy that was on the watch list but didn’t get a Sr. Bowl invite:
Wow, this is a Seahawk if I have ever seen one!: CB Jeremy Cutrer, MTSU
Just read this (like, right now… š ): http://draftwire.usatoday.com/2016/07/01/homelessness-hunger-and-hurricane-katrina-mtsus-jeremy-cutrer-continues-to-overcome/
Couldn’t find much tape of him on YouTube except the 2015 Alabama game, but I’ve seen enough potential right there and in a cheesy highlights vid.
Ballhawk and agressive in run support even at his small weight. Hits hard. Former WR like Sherm. Athletic (4-star out of HS), versatile DB who can line up anywhere (played S too). ST value with a knack for blocking kicks.
I hope this guy falls in the draft due to his weight, cause he could be a great late-round pick for us. He was homeless in HS, so basically trained his body to get by while eating little. A couple years in a pro training system should help him get to an acceptable weight, cause he has the frame.
“He has the size at 6-2, the ability to cover all different types of players, a knack for laying out receivers, a willingness to step up versus the run game, and a habit of making big plays.”
Bottom line, he just wants it more and will overcome anything to get there. Will definitely be a favorite of mine this draft! Could be our annual JUCO ranks player and Rd. 5 CB project!
Here’s the highlights vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4ij9N1BGvA
Really like him a lot and this is the pro type Seahawks 5th round developmental guy. Have to do a more work on him but the initial reaction is a big thumbs up.
Great find!
6’2″former 4-star WR turned CB. 2nd Team All-Conference USA. Specials teams contributor in college. The “grittiest” backstory you’ll find all season….
This guy screams Seahawk. Nice find.
Dangit! It happened again! So for the past few weeks I’ve been musing over some of my favorite sleepers, with the idea of posting one per position. First guy I had in mind was DL Jarron Jones from ND. Lo and behold, the day after I decided he was my R3 pick for 3-tech, V12 posts a note telling everybody about Jones.
So I decided to be preemptive when talk turned to WR and brought up my WR, Josh Malone from Tenn.
Driving home after work today, I thought I’d add a guy to the list, and knowing we’d be talking DBs b/c of the Senior Bowl measurements I thought, I better bring up my CB, Jeremy Cutrer, before somebody else does. Ha!
29.5 for Sutton, Wow. I think k I saw him in a commercial acting like the Alligator trying to pay the bill for dinner. Couldn’t reach the check.
Some notes I posted on the wrong blog page
* Keionta Davis (DL) Chattanooga is a guy to really keep an eye on this week. He could be a huge riser this week. I thought he had a great game against Alabama and has a ton of upside as an Edge rusher. Great size at 6-4 and 260lbs. Also has the 33ā³ + Arms the Hawks want. Canāt wait to see him in drills as I think he will pop. If he tests well at the combine he could definitely be a big riser at least from my untrained scouting eye.
*Julien Davenport has both the longest arms (36 inches) and wingspan (87 1/2 inches). Those are key numbers for an OT as we all know. Canāt wait to see how this guy plays in the drills.
*Corn Elder was a guy I was really curious about but arm length less than 31ā³ so I guess he is out. Too bad because he seemed like a nice lot corner prospect.
*Daeshon Hall is the perfect physical profile for an edge guy. 6-5 265lbs 34 1/2 inch arms. Another guy canāt wait to see in drill. He is a PNW guy isnāt he?
*Another one of my favorites scratched off the list. Cam Sutton /Tennessee. 29 2/8 arms 8 2/8 hands
*Carlos Watkins at 6035/312 w/ 10.38 hand and 33.5ā³ arm. Ideal DT measurements. He is another guy who has a chance to make some $ this week.
Another guy I want to see is Tarrell Basham from Ohio. Ton of production and looks the part but how will he fare against better competition.
Davenport’s 7 foot, 3.5 inch wingspan is crazy.
To put that into context, here are some of the longest from last year’s measurements:
Le’Raven Clark – 7’2″
Chris Jones – 7’1″
Germain Ifedi – 7’1″
Anyone watched any tape of this guy?
Here is one game on Daftbreakdown but it is against VMI so low level competition.
OJ Howard is the Julio Jones of Tight Ends.
I know we have a ton of other needs but if somehow someway OJ Howard is on the board the Hawks have to take him. That is a freak of an athlete. He is a great blocker too. 6-5 1/2, 250lbs, 34 inch arms and 10 inch hands. If you were going to build the perfect TE that is it.
Can you imagine Graham and Howard at TE with Baldwin in the Slot and two speedsters in PRich and Locket outside. WOW
Would also align with Schneider’s habit of drafting a potential replacement a year before a player hits FA (e..g Vannett last year w/Willson hitting UFA this season).
Depending on who was left on the board…..
Ah, who am I kidding? If O.J. Howard is there at #26, Rob may hear me screaming at the TV across the pond.
Jimmy Graham flashed this year a few times. Showed what may be possible. I really like Luke Willson too. But if Howard is there and we select him, it may be time to either put Jimmy out wide or trade him.
From a physical measurement standpoint Julien Davenport and Dion Dawkins seem like the two legit OTs to watch in the Senior Bowl practices. Garcia is right on the edge and the rest seem like Guards.
My 2nd favorite OL Lamp has 31 inch Arms do definitely a Guard. He is a T-Rex which has to hurt his draft stock.
Also Garcia sub 33ā³ inch arms but barely. Not going to help is case a potential 1st rounder.
That is the thing about all these small school guys is most have a physical limitation that caused them not to get scouted by one of the big schools. On the positive side most have a big chip on their shoulder because of that and succeed as a result anyways.
Talk about freaks! Tanoh Kpassagnon Villanova
6 -6 1/2 , 280 lbs, 34 7/8, 10 7/8
Unfortunately when I watch him I think more of Shawn Oakman than Calias Campbell. Look forward to seeing him in drills though.
Totally agree on Kpassagnon. Don’t see it at all with this guy.
Rob I’ve just been watching a lot of Rasul Douglas and I think he makes a perfect #2 corner. His ball skills are unbelievable, i think thats what the hawks really should be looking for because of the high volume of targets this kid will get. He would be a great late round pick and gives the hawks a safetynet if they decide to go with baker in round 1.
Rasul Douglas is a day two prospect imo
I sure hope so he would be a great 2nd or 3rd round pick
Douglas is a very, very, very intriguing prospect.
He is my favorite prospect at corner, the ideal situation for me would be if the Hawks went defense with the first 3 picks taking Baker Douglas and an athlete Defensive tackle
32 1/8″ arms is right in the wheelhouse for Douglas, but his wingspan of 76.5-ish isn’t ideal. To my knowledge the Hawks haven’t drafted a CB with a wingspan below 77.5 inches.
Been hammering on the King/Douglas prospects for Seattle for a few weeks.
Love King — but have to wonder aloud if it’s because of local familiarity.
Douglas has size too. And he’s very stout as a tackler. Very low YAC and excellent in run support. Demonstrates the physical game that Seattle really covets.
Honestly, I’m not going to cry if both of these guys get taken by Seattle. These guys would make this roster and play. Seattle like to add competition, and if we presume Shead is out for awhile and also that Lane needs to feel the breath of the next horse on the depth chart — then these two guys would solve that nicely. Perfect candidates for a double dip at a position of extreme strength in this class.
IMO Douglas is an awful athlete with bad feet.
Going to have a bunch of DB’s to scratch off of the tape watch list after this is all said and done.
Yup.
Rob, could you consider putting in bold on your list the prospects that meet Seattle’s arm length requirements (at OL/DL and CB)? Just makes it easier to spot both those that do and do not make it.
Yeah, seriously, Rob… I hate reading things about college football players.
Apologies to Sea Mode… I was being a smart a$$, b/c I read it ‘on hold’ instead of ‘in bold’, meaning can you hold off on even talking about these guys until the SR Bowl/Combine/Pro Day measureables come out.
I can admit when I’m being a DBag, and in this case I was!
No worries, man.
Done
Rob,
Have you watched much of UM’s Channing Stribling and if so what are your thoughts?
I have not
Not Rob, but I watched a bit of him this afternoon and honestly didn’t stand out much to me to keep me looking.
In my mind, if your gonna be thin, you had better stand out for athleticism, aggression, ball skills, or something. Didn’t really see it. (whereas I did with Jeremy Cutrer, as posted above)
Just my two cents.
RB Jamaal Williams is only 6-0? Listed everywhere as 6-2. Guess that’s still a good size, but definitely not the same.
I know college websites tend to exaggerate a bit, but I thought the draft sites would be closer.
Being 6-0 instead of 6-2 isn’t a bad thing for a RB, especially considering SEA’s proclivities in that regard.
I agree, I think he has the potential to be David Johnson or LeVeon Bell given the right circumstances. Bell had a terrible combine but showed great vision and power. Johnson had a solid combine but didn’t do any one thing exceptionally well. He is built similarly to both of these backs and in the right system could do some damage.
Disappointing weight from Kareem Hunt. Was listed at various sites at 225 lbs.
He’s probably dropped some weight in combine prep, but likely was never 225 lbs. He needs to test well athletically now.
Let’s not forget the weight they lose throughout the season as well. Like JT says, a lot of RBs shed weight to run a killer 40 to get noticed. It will be interesting to see how that turns out.
They’ll lose it, then put it back on.
That’s what happened to Alex Collins right? Stacked the weight on because he thought he needed it for the pros, instead it turned him into a complete potato. Players just need to work out their playing weight and stick to it.
Rob you guy Haason Reddick/Temple: 6 1 1/2 , 237lbs, 32 1/8 arms. 10 3/8 hands. Looked awesome according to Tony Pauline. That is huge for him. He moved up the board on those measurements alone.
I’m intrigued by Reddick after hearing Rob talk about him but there’s not a lot of hype on him elsewhere. Could mean a couple things:
1) Rob is ahead of the curve and we will see Reddick flying up draft boards after a fantastic Senior Bowl and combine. (Wouldn’t be the first time)
or
2) This community has our “favorites” and Reddick may be available a lot later in the draft than we might think. We are talking about him as a great pick for round 2 but where does the NFL value him? I think we’ve seen a strength for Schneider is accurately predicting value, so if the Hawks do like Reddick they may actually be able to wait until a bit later in the draft to pick him up. Could be a KJ Wright type of steal
Reddick could go top-25 IMO.
Good way to look at it, Nathan. I think it’s a bit of both, and I’m glad we have JS at the helm to nail that value.
Reminds me of what was said about Seattle drafting Bruce Irvin. (i.e. that it was a reach) But now, other teams have been going for the size/athletic upside as well, most notably the Browns last year. I guess it’s their “Moneyball” guys in effect, because they almost literally took the top combine SPARQ guys at several positions early in the draft:
Round 1, Pick No. 15: Corey Coleman (tied for #1 with Josh Doctson at 133.9 pSPARQ)
Round 2, Pick 32: Emmanuel Ogbah, DE (#2 at 131.8 behind Tapper 133.7)
Round 3, Pick No. 76: Shon Coleman, OT (didn’t work out at combine, but moves well on tape)
Round 4, Pick No. 114: Ricardo Louis, WR (#4 after the two above and Devon Cajuste, who btw is now on Packers PS)
Anyway, hope they never figure out JS ways of evaluating the person and not just the athlete!
Another guy I forgot to mention earlier who has legit OT size and seems like the ideal swing guy the Hawks seem to like. Taylor Moton/Western Michigan : 6 -5, 330 lbs, 33″ + Arms.
According the Pauline he carries it well and looked smaller than that weight. He said he was the type of guy you want on your side in a street fight.
Sounds like one of those Bully guys we have been talking about.
Would rather go +34 inches at tackle
Seattle loves their measurables. And I don’t expect them to change their criteria.
That said, I think their dogmatic adherence to them results in us leaving quality (pro bowl) talent on the board while taking guys who just aren’t good football players.
Ifedi has great length. But even on his college tape, he basically surrendered that advantage virtually every play. Length is an advantage, but only if you know how to make use of it.
I’d hope at some point, Seattle would loosen their extreme measurables on the OL. Because a guy who can play with 32″ arms is better than a guy who can’t with 34″ arms. We can keep shooting for the moon with high ceiling players but thus far we’ve been completely and totally unable to actually achieve those ceilings.
I’d like to think that Seattle can learn from past mistakes in the draft eval process. I mean we’ve evolved it over time. As it stands, I will assume that past measurable criteria will still rule the grading process for us.
The thing is though — they have these standards for a reason. Very few marginal athletes or short, small players excel. There are outliers, but most greats are physically exceptional. We could complain about Seattle’s CB approach but it’s an approach that led to them getting Richard Sherman.
And picking later in round one limits your opportunity to get a great anyway — so traits and coaching become the key.
Case in point: DT Chris Zorich who I think was drafted by the Bears in either the 2nd or 3rd round in the early 90s. Unbelievable motor but couldn’t translate to the pros because measurables just weren’t there.
Dalvin Thomlinson and Carlos Watkins are basically identical twins physically.
Not many DB options at the Senior Bowl if the 32 inch arms are the cutoff
Rasul Douglas
Marquis White
Obi Melifonwu
AN SDB favorite for 2 years now Tre’Davious White is close 31 1/2. Rob since he is likely a great slot guy anyways do you think he gets a pass?
I think he might be more of an outside guy
Great info, thanks Rob!
Excuse my ignorance, what does the $ in “WW” column stand for? (on the complete list)
Guys who made money
Love it!
One player I have been smitten with pretty much since the beginning of the college season was Dan Feeney. Not a player I ever expected Seattle to entertain. But the man can dominate on the interior. The man is just a brick wall that doesn’t give. Not sure what their plans are for Ifedi for the upcoming year (stay at RG or compete at RT).
Feeney measured pretty solid. Honestly looks as good or better on the hoof than many of the OT to OG converts.
Conventional wisdom among Seahawks draft followers assume that there is a expected benefit to getting an OT and moving them to OG. Due to better (presumed) measurables and athleticism. In this class though I think I’d definitely put Feeney as a better OG prospect than some of these OT but will play OG candidates.
I like Feeney better than I did Joshua Garnett in last year’s draft. Their measurables are nearly identical.
Feeney is really good. Hard to imagine SEA going guard again early though.
I agree completely about Feeney he will likely be a rock solid 8-10 year RG for some team. I think he is lowest floor OL prospect in the draft. Agree with Rob though too many other needs now to consider him in Rd #1 and he will be long go before we pick in Rd #2 likely. If he is there in Rd #2 not sure how they could pass.
So the Browns paid Collins. Probably overpaid a bit, but worth it cause they need talent in any way they can get it. Reportedly should fit better in incoming DC Greg Williams’ defense as well.
Oh, and if you want a good laugh (or cry…?), check out this article:
http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/229637/thats-so-browns-super-bowl-overflows-with-ex-cleveland-guys
I think if carlos watkins the dt from clemson is their they might like him a lot! 10.5 sacks with that size up the middle is intriguing! With as deep as CB is they probably feel confident waiting till the 3rd rd!
Crazy stuff, if you think about how it all came together in one game:
Belichick got Rowe from Eagles for a conditional fourth-round pick: interception in AFCCG.
He nabbed Van Noy by merely flopping 6th and 7th-round picks with the Lions: forced fumble in AFCCG.
Signed Hogan away from Bills for $4m apy which they chose not to match: 180 yd, 2td in AFCCG.
Got Martellus B. swapping a 4th for a 6th: fills in for injured Gronk in AFCCG. Leads team in rec TDs (7).
Lesson 1: evaluate players for your team, not the league.
Lesson 2: never think for a moment you are fleecing Belichick in a trade…
That is why he will go down as the GOAT without anyone else really even close except maybe Bill Walsh or Vince L.
Can’t just just picture Jon Gruden holding his fingers *this* far apart and explaining that Russell Wilson would be a sure-fire first round pick were it not for *this*!!!
That is the way I feel about Cam Sutton. Given that the league has trended overwhelmingly towards bigger corners, I wonder if he experiences a fall where the issue of *this* much size no longer outweighs his skill set.
Some very disappointing measurements. I don’t think these corners are the ones to watch.
I agree. It’s a shame. There is a lot of skill out there though.
Early on I was banging the drum for Kevin King. I also love Dan Feeney. I think he can handle right tackle or right guard and push Ifedi out to RT. He is tough, can move his feet, maul people, and he appears to be intelligent as well. I think we could do a lot worse than to find a way to land these two.
If they were moving Ifedi to RT I would love that idea. I really hope the Hawks reconsider and at least try Ifedi at RT. They could pull something like that with a trade back in Rd #1 and trade up in Rd #2.
But if not Feeney seems redundant with GLow at LG and Ifedi at RG. If you draft a guy that early you want him to be able to compete for a starting spot.
They almost have to go O-line in FA. This OT class just got worse.
I have a feeling, and this is just me with a hunch and looking at the schools Seattle has scouted this year and TC wise, they’re gonna draft an O-lineman like Britt. A guy THEY love, but no one expects.
Or like Odhiambo or Hunt or Poole.
As I recall, Britt was more of an ‘oh (bleep) we have to take an OT or they’ll be all gone’ selection. I think I’d just as soon they don’t draft a guy they love. Their track record is qualifiably putrid in those instances.
At least as it pertains to OL prospects.
Seems like this class is going to mean big paydays for Joeckel and Kalil in UFA. Might be tough to get anything appreciably better than Webb/Sowell without committing north of 6m.
Tackle remains a position that needs better play. Seems like it’ll require a move up the board to address even adequately. Tough spot for us.
Who would they sign without overpaying anyone? Carroll already said they aren’t going to just throw a bunch of money at the line, one guy isn’t going to fix it, and they certainly aren’t going to overpay for someone that isn’t worth it.
This is a tiny crop of SR’s. God I hope they’re bigger at the combine.
DeMarcus Walker is gonna come in at like 6’0, 270 lbs. huh? Awuzie with the 29″ arms might not be far fetched.
Evan Engram at 236 is a great # for him. Shows he can handle some extra weight and could be a TE. š
OJ Howard is huge! Watching the practice and he as big as these O-lineman in pads.
As much as the Hawks need an infusion of talent, it really comes down to coaching for me. I have said it before, but watching Patriots ability to morph not only year to year, but week to week and drive to drive. It’s pretty stunning. Does it help the division and conference for the most part is pretty weak, yes. Look at all the teams with stud QB, it’s the NFC. It also showed with Falcons and their offense. Do they have talent. Yes, but Shanahan is scheme oriented. He looks at what the defense is doing and reacts to it. Corners play off, quick screen. Corners play up, go deep. Getting pressure, quick drops. No pressure, long crosses to destroy the zone.
The Hawks have enough talent on both sides of the ball, PC needs to get this team on the same path again. DB needs to know his teams strengths and weakness and take what the defense is giving them. KR needs to mix it up so offenses don’t know what they are doing. Wagner and Wright got pretty good at blitzing, but they would go spans where they never did anything.
Coaching, that’s the biggest adjustment the Hawks need to be successful next year.
I was thinking about the Hawks vs the Patriots as organizations last night and I think they really are the two best the league with the Pats being the clear #1.
The best description would be that the Hawks are like a Ferrari. They are loud, spirited, temperamental. When everything is just right it is pure perfection and unbeatable! They are however prone to breakdowns and need constant repairs / tuning.
The Pats are like a Mercedes. A little more understated, incredibly disciplined. The are just rock solid fundamentally and you get the same thing on each ride. They do not have the incredible top end speed of the Ferrari but they rarely if ever breakdown.
If you were to pick one car for each coach I think you would have to give Pete the Ferrari and Bill the Mercedes to suit their personality.
I love the culture Pete has built but we have to accept it for what it is. Because it is based on emotion and spirited individuals there will huge swings in performance levels at times as a result. We just have to hope they get the Ferrari finely tuned at playoff time next year.
After all most other NFL teams are Honda Civics and a couple like the Browns are old Russian Lada”s from the 90’s so things could be a lot worse.
Like the image. =)
Bill is from the Parcells tree. A schemer, manipulator, intricate details. NE is all scheme and system.
PC is from the Bill Walsh/Bud Grant tree. Exudes confidence. This is hat we’re doing. Stop us if you can. Seattle is all about the players on the field. Thresholds, athletic profiles.
Parcells & Al Davis
I hope PC can pull some BW this year. BW challenged his coordinators and it pushed them to the top (Holmgren/Mariucci). I don’t think PC challenges his coordinators or players actually. He is so positive, even when you screw up he coddles you. That doesn’t breed continued success. That’s the fun teacher that everyone loves and then everyone walks all over him. PC is close to that point. Sherman said a few times he basically zones out when PC talks at times. Nobody is scared in this organization. His positivity was great to start the culture here, but it needs to adapt a little or the message gets old.
I would say Dan Quinn is more successful in his short HC tenure than Mariucci ever was who was pushed to the top and is emulating the exact same defense and personnel that Seattle uses/has.
I actually don’t mind at all that he doesn’t tear his guys a new a**hole if they make a mistake. It happens. Yelling at them won’t fix it. Its up to the player to do it. PC does however let the inmates run the asylum to a degree. That’s just who he is.
Jim Harbaugh was the exact opposite and a lot of guys got sick of his stuff. When you start challenging or going at a grown man’s manhood your in danger of causing a mutiny.
Its really about finding guys that will buy in to your program.
Nothing will change in say Cleveland even if they find a QB and other pieces because they don’t have a culture.
I have no problem with PC’s leadership style.
Treat men like men.
Does not work for everyone, but yelling probably works for fewer
wish he could demonstrate the ability to change his defensive mindset when circumstances change.
let’s see how the o line play s next year, and how the defense plays.
If we have the same o line problems, that will be 3 years in a row and indicates a serious issue. In theory, 5 young guys should all take a step up next year.
We have to see if the defense improves, whether it is with some new players or a slightly different approach. The league has studied the d for 5 years and it has steadily been less efficient since 2013. Still good, but no longer great. Can win with it if the offense steps up
You clearly have never owned a Mercedes.
Tenn-Chatanooga DL Keionta Davis is working out with the DTs. Hmmmm…
6’3, 273 lbs., over 33″ arms.
Here come the DL vs OL drills!
Houston LB Tyus Bowser expected to run in the 4.5’s? š„
I like the Mayock comp. K-St’s Jordan Willis could be another Trey Flowers. Both tight, but great motors.
OJ Howard is a star! This kid looks incredible. Just effortless.
God damn! SD St CB Damontae Kazee just breaks on the balk with explosion. Sitz on those routes and BANG! Wish he had the length and size.
The Chris Harris. Would be perfect slot guy.
I could listen to Mike Mayock all day long. I think he summed it up perfectly for example, why a team like Seattle hasn’t had great drafts lately. Although 2015 was good and 2016 is too early. Yes picking late doesn’t help nor does losing a scout like Scot McCloughan.
Anyways, its evaluation. The game is so much different these last 5 years or so. OT’s don’t put their hand in the dirt, LBs don’t attack downhill, safeties play quarters coverage, CBs can’t backpedal. WRs can’t stem a route or grasp a route tree. RBs run outside. All because everything is lateral.
I like MM. He’s so passionate about the game, players and the state of the game. Class guy.
Did he comment specifically on Seattle Vol? Or were you just making the comparison?
No, just making the comparison. He was talking about the entire league and how much harder it is to evaluate.
Suggestion for a future blog post… or maybe a visitor post?
What were the measurable of the current Hawks, that could be possibly replaced with the current crop of players?
By that I mean…
Mike Morgan has very different measurables from KJ Wright. So if we are looking at LBs that could possibly join the team to play SLB, we should be looking at comps for the Pete Carrol SLB. Whether that be MM or Bruce Irvin, i don’t know.
Likewise for a RCB, 32 inch arms for sure. But what is it about Shead, or Maxwell, that separated them from the other guys that had 32′ arms? Overall wingspan? Hand size? Athleticism (which will be looked at more at the combine)?
I have to bust your balls a little Rob, in America we call 4/8 one half (Hasson Reddick). Lol. Thanks for the updates, it’s nice to know these.
in America, the scouts always measure height by /8
Texas A&M DE Daeshon Hall looked really good in drills. Not sure how much of a need a backup 5-tech is though.
Clemson DT Carlos Watkins had some nice reps. Powerful dude.
‘Bama’s Dalvin Tomlinson also impressive. Has torn up both of his knees. Gotta wonder how that will impact his stock, but he’s very good.
Looking forward to Arkansas TE Jeremy Sprinkle. He’s got a huge catch radius.
DL Keionta Davis is very interesting. ‘Bama starff was raving about him. Raw, but tons of potential. I like the fact he can line up inside.
Big hands, too.
Taywan Taylor with good arm length and hands for a 511 WR, also impressing in Senior Bowl practice vs. LSU defender. Look at his moves: https://twitter.com/ChaseGoodbread/status/823984493648367617
Rob,
Did you watch or have any thoughts from the Shrine Game last week? Had some players of interest like Treston Decoud Oregon St, Fabian Moreau UCLA, Game Marks Wash St. Reddick is a stud. I’m afraid we may not have the chance to get him unless its in the first round. Too bad about Garcia. Thought he was interesting. Crushed about Sutton…
Wow, for anyone watching is Tanoh legit? His measurements are unreal.
I’m sure I’m not the only one to notice a critical theme here: the player pool of guys who meet Seattle’s measurements is very small, especially for quality, early round prospects. Add to that the fact other teams have developed similar patterns in targeting players for their own drafts, especially Carroll disciples and Schneider-related front offices it makes it extremely tough to actually land our ‘targets’ without ‘overpaying’ with draft capital or reaching on guys (ifedi?).
I’m beginning to think we will target a player with special traits closer to a BPA rather than need. Of course it depends on who the draft falls, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see TE, S, RB, LB, and CB in the mix round 1 unless our ideal OT falls, rather than reaching to solve our perceived biggest need. I do agree CB/S/OT are just that, but it seems unlikely talent and traits align for OT or CB at 26. I hope the team has an open mind an doesn’t rule out trading up this year.
Generally they’ve focused on needs. They’ve never caught us off guard with an early positional pick. I suspect they should be able to find an athletic, high upside OL, DB or LB at #26 or after a small move down.
Rob – well, we got our answer on Sutton, and it’s not looking good for him with incredibly short arms. He’s had a good Senior Bowl practice week and has looked pretty good in coverage but based on his slight measurements (182 lbs and the short arms), I think Hawks won’t look at him, in fact I’m sure of it. I’m eyeing Reddick as possible Rd 1 target, but based on his impressive measurables and performance this week in practice I see a lot of teams taking him before we come up at # 26. Menifonwu would be my next player I would like to see us take a look at. Measurable a very good and body type like Chancellor. Would love one of these two on the Hawks next season.