Malik Willis — flawed but toolsy
In the aftermath of the Russell Wilson trade I wrote about the Seahawks almost certainly having a firm plan for the next step. You don’t trade Wilson away without knowing what your next move is. The Seahawks will know, internally, what it is.
We don’t know. We won’t know. And we should embrace that.
Last week everyone invested a lot of faith in Daniel Jeremiah saying his buddies in the league expected Deshaun Watson in Seattle. Now, they’re not even among a group of teams talking to him.
There’ll be all sorts of speculation about their intentions and none of it, really, is going to mean anything.
The team is not going to show its hand. Any leak can be taken with a pinch of salt. This is the most important decision, arguably, Pete Carroll and John Schneider will make. Their reputations are on the line here. If they trade Wilson away and mess this up — this could be how their tenure in Seattle is defined.
I want to offer some thoughts on what might be going on.
The pass rush fear
I hoped acquiring the #9 pick would put Seattle in a position to draft an outstanding pass rusher. The NFL world obsesses about quarterbacks but over the last few years, a great pass rush has been just as important.
Increasingly, I wonder who will be left at #9.
It’s becoming harder and harder to imagine Jermaine Johnson lasting. He could/should be the #1 target. After a fantastic season for Florida State where he had 11.5 sacks and 17.5 TFL’s — he then dominated at the Senior Bowl and ran a 1.55 10-yard split at the combine.
None of the teams picking in front of Seattle have gone after the big name free agent pass rushers. There’s a distinct possibility that Jacksonville, Detroit, Houston, the Jets, the Giants and Atlanta will all consider drafting a pass rusher.
I don’t expect Johnson to get to #9. Even if it’s the Giants at #7 or the Falcons at #8 — he has simply shown too much and performed too well.
It’s not unusual for a player to rise in this way. Think back to 2010. Trent Williams, originally, was considered a mid-first rounder. He didn’t even play left tackle at Oklahoma. Then he had a lights-out combine. As the weeks went by, buzz increased about Williams being a top-10 pick. He eventually was taken at #4 having propelled himself way up many boards.
The same could be happening here with Johnson.
It’d be a shame because he and the Seahawks appear to have connected. Here’s a segment from an article on NFL.com:
Johnson certainly looked the part in his first season with the Seminoles, rewriting his narrative from a tale of a player who failed to produce to one who just needed the right opportunity to shine. A lack of year-over-year consistency might give interested clubs some pause, but Johnson has found they too understand the dynamics of his somewhat unique ascension.
“My meeting with Seattle kind of gave me a different (perspective) on that,” Johnson explained. “[Seahawks coach] Pete Carroll, he just said in front of everyone, he’s like, ‘so we’re not going to judge him off any of the years of college (prior to Florida State). Last year is who you were.’
“Coming in from junior college to Georgia, a lot of complications can happen. For him to know right off the bat, like, ‘let’s not judge him on some different complications. Let’s judge him on when he’s in a comfortable environment and when he’s being used the right way, when he’s happy.’ That made me feel really good.”
Personally I’d consider moving up to secure him, provided the asking price wasn’t too expensive.
The only other potential ‘game-wrecking’ EDGE, for me, is Kayvon Thibodeaux.
Travon Walker tested superbly and will be a high pick for that reason. I’m not convinced he’s going to be a screaming-off-the-edge type who transforms Seattle’s pass rush for the next five years. David Ojabo has a lot of potential but feels like a slow-burner who will need a couple of years to work things out.
Thibodeaux has the talent to be the #1 pick and could still be taken there. He wouldn’t be the first player to be picked apart in the early stages of a draft season only to settle in as the top prospect because the upside is too high. The same thing more or less happened with Jadeveon Clowney. There were even a few quibbles about Myles Garrett’s personality, with people questioning his fire and discussing irrelevant things like his interest in poetry.
If he did fall to #9 I’d be surprised. That’s a significant drop. There’s no real reason why the Giants or Falcons wouldn’t stop a slide if the Seahawks were prepared to. If he did fall all the way to #9 — would Seattle be risk-averse in that scenario?
I would hope not. Thibodeaux might rub a few people up the wrong way during interviews (media and team) but he has rare edge-rushing talent. It shouldn’t be a shock if ultimately Jacksonville takes the plunge at #1.
A top-eight like this wouldn’t be a surprise:
#1 Jacksonville — Kayvon Thibodeaux (DE, Oregon)
#2 Detroit — Aidan Hutchinson (DE, Michigan)
#3 Houston — Sauce Gardner (CB, Cincinnati)
#4 New York Jets — Travon Walker (DE, Georgia)
#5 New York Giants — Evan Neal (T, Alabama)
#6 Carolina — Ikem Ekwonu (G, NC State)
#7 New York Giants — Jermaine Johnson (DE, Florida State)
#8 Atlanta — David Ojabo (DE, Michigan)
With some big name pass rushers still out there and with the team expressing the need to add ‘another Darrell Taylor’ (Pete Carroll) and ‘a game-wrecker’ (Clint Hurtt) — you wonder what might be the next domino to fall.
If they feel like the options at #9 are diminishing, they might invest in a Chandler Jones, Za’Darius Smith or Jadeveon Clowney — simply to avoid missing out on an off-season priority.
If that happens, it shouldn’t stop them drafting a Johnson or Thibodeaux at #9. But it might suggest they’re preparing to go in a different direction.
***UPDATE***
The Seahawks have signed Uchenna Nwosu to a two-year $20m contract. This is very encouraging news, at least initially. It looks like a classic draft hedge. It’s not so expensive that it eliminates the Seahawks from likely taking a pass rusher with their top pick. If they miss out, though, they’re equally not left completely short.
On top of that, Nwosu is a good age (25) and has a lot of the physical traits they like — 33.5 inch arms, decent split and short shuttle. He’s played in two defensive schemes the Seahawks may try to mesh (Gus Bradley, Brandon Staley).
He isn’t a game-wrecker though. The deal will be less impressive if they don’t add one in the draft. However, this is the kind of signing I was hoping they would make because it ticks a box and leaves open the possibility of drafting a pass rushing stud at #9.
What does this all mean for the quarterback position?
Potentially nothing. If the board did shake up like the above projection — they could opt to trade down. They could draft someone like Trevor Penning to play right or left tackle.
It’s also possible, unfortunately, that they simply take whichever quarterback they like at #9.
I don’t think anyone is going to take, say, Malik Willis ahead of them. Neither do I think a team like the Steelers are going to trade way up. Pittsburgh’s addition of Mitchell Trubisky is a useful hedge that gives them an insurance policy if they have to push things into 2023.
So far, the Seahawks haven’t added their own insurance. They’ll tell you Drew Lock is a viable option but does anyone truly believe that?
When I say they didn’t make the Wilson trade without a plan for what’s next — it’s possible they simply knew all along that their next quarterback will be easily draftable within the top-10.
For John Schneider it’s always been about tools. Wilson had a big arm and mobility. His reported interest in Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen validated the preference for physical traits.
I have major reservations about Malik Willis for good reason — and I’ll reiterate them shortly. But he has tools. The kind of tools Schneider loves.
He’s got a big arm. He can scramble around and make plays off-script. There are magical moments on tape where he makes the improbable happen.
Mahomes and Allen had significant issues too.
Mahomes threw 25 interceptions in his final two years at Texas Tech. It’s easy to forget now but draft media basically pegged Mahomes as a late first round toolsy project until the very end of the process. Then, finally, there was a small amount of buzz.
The Chiefs trading up for Mahomes was exciting because people had faith in Andy Reid and they had Alex Smith to act as a bridge. It was still, on the night, a little surprising.
Here’s a link to Mahomes’ draft profile on NFL.com. You might want to sit down before reading what I’m about to write.
He was graded at a 6.30. In comparison — Willis (6.41), Kenny Pickett (6.40), Matt Corral (6.40) and Desmond Ridder (6.36) are all graded higher from the 2022 class.
Lance Zierlein’s player comparison for Mahomes was Jay Cutler. He wrote the following blurb:
Mahomes is a big, confident quarterback who brings a variety of physical tools to the party, but he’s developed some bad habits and doesn’t have a very repeatable process as a passer. Mahomes’ ability to improvise and extend plays can lead to big plays for his offense, but he will have to prove he can operate with better anticipation and be willing to take what the defense gives him in order to win from the pocket. Mahomes will be a work in progress, but he’s a high ceiling, low floor prospect.
Here’s the anonymous quote section of the article:
“He’s got a great arm, big balls and he’s mobile. He is going to drive his head coach crazy for the first couple of years and there is no getting around that. If it clicks for him and he’s coachable, I think he could become a special quarterback.” – NFC executive
There’s a reference at least to his potential. Yet as it happens, the only people Mahomes made crazy in his first couple of years were Kansas City’s opponents.
Josh Allen was graded at a 5.90, with Zierlein writing:
Likely be the biggest boom-or-bust quarterback prospect in the draft. Allen’s size and arm talent are prototypical for early first-round picks, but it’s rare to find a quarterback with such a low college completion rate become a successful pro. Allen’s receivers struggled to separate, but there were plenty of times where his lack of anticipation and post-snap plan did him in. Allen can make some truly special throws, but his ability to improve the mental part of his game will determine whether he’s a good NFL starter or just another big, strong-armed guy.
Allen was compared to Jake Locker.
I remember what he looked like at Wyoming and it wasn’t good. He had all the physical tools but the tape, at times, was horrendous. He had 21 interceptions in two seasons and only managed 1812 total passing yards in 11 games during his final year in college.
Then he went to the Senior Bowl and had an outstanding week, culminating in a game performance that was extremely memorable. At the combine his testing and measurements told the story of a heaven-sent quarterback profile.
He was incredibly raw though — which is why he lasted to the seventh pick. A lot of people second-guessed Buffalo’s decision to trade up and get him. Unlike Mahomes, it took Allen three years to figure things out and become the player we see today.
It wouldn’t surprise me if Schneider looks at Willis and sees the next case of a physically impressive player who is a rough diamond but can achieve greatness.
Like Mahomes and Allen he’s thrown interceptions (18 in two seasons). There are clear and obvious issues on tape that warrant concern.
If you were frustrated by Russell Wilson’s unwillingness to throw over the middle, take what’s on offer and play on schedule — Willis takes things to a whole new level. Too often he’s a one-read-and-run quarterback. His talent as a runner is both a very appealing quality when it comes to escapability, improvisation and designed runs. It’s also a problem because at the first sign of any trouble — he tries to play hero-ball.
You only have to glance at the tape to see numerous examples where wide open receivers are running across the field and Willis doesn’t pull the trigger. We’re talking about run-of-the-mill, easy completions for huge gains (or touchdowns) that are rejected with no obvious justification. Instead, he sets off running.
My fear is that at the next level, under greater pressure, he’ll be even more reactive to what happens up front. He took 51 sacks in 2021 — an astonishing number — with many a result of Willis holding the ball and trying to create. Against Ole Miss they dominated the Liberty O-line and his game fell apart. He threw three interceptions.
On a technical level, too, there are mechanical issues in terms of how he sets to throw, his base and his motion that lead to occasional accuracy issues. To be fair, he also made some stunning off-script throws where he’s improvised either on the run or when throwing from an unorthodox body position. In the NFL though — those little tells, the wasted motion, the lack of squared shoulders and planted feet can be the difference between an accurate delivery and throwing late with faster, better defensive backs lurking.
When you have technique issues, they can be exploited badly at the next level. We saw that with Justin Fields as a rookie. He was a turnover machine.
Willis needs time and development. He also needs the right environment. Mahomes and Allen received top-level offensive coaching and had schemes tailored to them by Andy Reid and Brian Daboll. Would Willis have that same luxury in Seattle?
Are the Seahawks even running a system, with Carroll’s influence and Shane Waldron as offensive coordinator, best served for a player like Willis?
He doesn’t seem like a fit for the Sean McVay way of doing things. He’s much more suited to a Greg Roman type offense that will make the most of his running ability. That isn’t really something you can expect Waldron to do.
I am a little bit fearful that the Seahawks have been wowed by Willis’ physical tools after a very impressive throwing performance at the combine (at least in terms of arm strength) and now see him as the next star to enter the league.
I’ll express that fear while acknowledging the concerns people had for Mahomes and Allen, only for both to become elite players.
It would be a gamble to stake your reputation on a quarterback from Liberty with a high ceiling but a low floor.
However, I do think there’s an extremely strong chance that Willis will be there at #9 (which tells its own story). It’s at least worth considering that their plan, with the Wilson trade executed after the combine, includes a quarterback solution in the top-10.
From there, they would open up a competition as they did in 2012. The addition of Willis would also buy the existing regime time and would shift the dynamic from post-Wilson uncertainty to looking forwards.
Seahawks fans are typically very prepared to see the positives and get a bit carried away. They would probably rally around the decision to draft Willis. After all, many convinced themselves that the pass rush depth a year ago was a great positive and that Jamal Adams not only should’ve been paid as a priority but that the trade was a good one.
It’s easy to imagine this front office choosing to invest in a toolsy QB then building around them, rather than undergoing a long search for the perfect candidate.
I’m not sure Carroll would ever embrace a lost season in 2022. I’m not sure he and Schneider would survive it either.
What would be the alternative?
This is also the problem. What exactly are the alternatives?
One option is starting Drew Lock. Again, the team will talk a good game here. They’ll pump and promote Lock as a viable answer but what they say in public and feel in private will likely be very different.
The options on the open market are virtually non-existent. There’s little point bringing in an Andy Dalton or Ryan Fitzpatrick type. You might as well just throw Lock out there instead. Marcus Mariota remains available but it’s curious how his career has just gone flat while other lesser talents get opportunities. I’m not sure anyone is really convinced by him, or believes he can lead a locker room.
Either way, nothing here screams giving Carroll a legit chance to compete.
It seems Baker Mayfield may be available soon. I’m just not sure why you would do that. His salary is $18m for 2022 and he only has one year left on his contract. It’d be a rental at best, unless he proves to be a longer-term answer.
What’s fair value for him? I’m not totally against the idea of seeing what Mayfield can achieve in a fresh start, with renewed motivation. However, there’s no way I’d want to give up any kind of value to find out. So how do you make an offer that is both appealing to the Browns and reasonable as a shot to nothing at the position?
With the Seahawks having three picks in the top-41 they have draft alternatives, too. Indianapolis, another potential Mayfield suitor, only have one pick in the first two rounds. They may be more inclined to take a bit of a gamble here.
If Cleveland doesn’t acquire Deshaun Watson, they’ll likely try to put the toothpaste back in the tube with Mayfield.
Matt Ryan is also potentially an option if the Falcons trade for Watson. They’re seen as outsiders but have a suitable enough offer to get a meeting with the player today.
Again though, what is the price going to be? Ryan’s nearly 37. Atlanta would need to move on if they get an agreement for Watson, so their negotiating position would be weak. Yet Ryan would become quite an attractive option for multiple teams, including Indianapolis. You wouldn’t want to enter an aggressive market.
The Falcons sold Julio Jones for a second rounder a year ago. They somehow got a second rounder out of New England for Mohamed Sanu in 2019. I would imagine they’d insist on a second rounder for Ryan, at least. That’s too much given his age.
There’s been no buzz around players like Tyler Huntley. With Lamar Jackson’s slightly odd contract situation and the fact he missed time in 2021 — you’d probably be entering a sellers market for Huntley, who hasn’t shown enough to warrant any serious investment.
It just feels like Seattle’s only realistic choice at this point is to draft a quarterback or roll with what they’ve got — potentially adding Geno Smith back into the mix with Lock and Jacob Eason.
That doesn’t mean they’d have to take one at #9 of course. They could wait until round two, or trade back into the first.
Matt Corral feels like a better fit for the Waldron/McVay offense. There’s the Lane Kiffin connection too, with Seattle previously drafting Alex McGough from Lane’s system. I could imagine interest here, given Corral’s surprising arm strength for his size and mobility.
It wouldn’t be a total shocker if they liked Kenny Pickett despite the small hands. I’m not sure he’s toolsy enough for Schneider though. You could make the same case for Desmond Ridder despite his testing profile.
Jack Coan is, for me, potentially a better ‘take a chance on someone’ option in rounds 3-5, compared to spending a high pick.
It wouldn’t be a surprise if they end up settling on Willis in round one and if that’s not possible, Corral in round two or after trading back into the first.
That would be a plan, whether you agree with it or not.
My fear is you’d be missing out on better players chasing the quarterback position. We saw that in 2011 when the likes of Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder started coming off the board ahead of players like Tyron Smith, J.J. Watt and Robert Quinn.
There’s so much talent to be had at the non-QB positions this year that any pick spent on a quarterback could be a major missed opportunity.
But what’s the alternative for this particular front office? Waiting until next year would be my preference, after building up the roster this year. I’ve said it so many times it’s becoming boring — but Will Levis at Kentucky would be a far better prospect to target if you’re willing to wait it out for 12 months.
I’m just not convinced Carroll will be. Or that he’ll feel like he can afford a bad season as part of a long-term rebuild.
That could mean gearing up for a gamble in the 2022 draft.
If the Seahawks spend money on a pass rusher and a left tackle in the next few days — it becomes an increasingly like prospect.
If the aim is to be competitive next season (and by competitive I don’t mean ‘contenders’ in any way, shape or form) they’ll need to be active soon with a number of gaping holes on the roster. If those holes mainly go unaddressed, it might equally be a sign that the Seahawks are willing to be patient and build through the draft.
That would be a very mature and appropriate approach.
It’s the one I hope they go for.
Draft note
Channing Tindall today ran a 4.03 short shuttle. That is right in Seattle’s ball-park and confirms both he and Leo Chenal are prime candidates to replace Bobby Wagner.
Meanwhile if you missed my interview with Chenal, you can check it out below. You can now get ‘The Rebuild’ podcast via Spotify too (click here to follow the channel).
If you enjoy the content on Seahawks Draft Blog then please consider supporting us via Patreon (click the tab below)…
The Seahawks have signed cornerback Artie Burns for $2m
Found this from when the Bears signed him. Seems fitting for the defensive transition we want to make. And at that price, it’s a shot you can take:
Like this. Getting a little concerned that the coaches didn’t have any players willing to come and play for them.
I actually like this signing. Not a huge commitment for a former first-round pick with 33-inch arms. He’s also a good age and played well against DK in week 16. Let’s see if he sticks.
Tall, long arms, fast and cheap. I like taking this low cost gamble.
https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/1504100077576536067
Quick reminder that Daniel Jeremiah’s trade predictions are about as useful as his early top-50 lists.
I thought someone already reported that watson rejected any trade scenarios to seattle?
Another incredible piece, Rob! Dude, you’re just on fire lately with all this amazing content. You definitely seem invigorated by the new possibilities since the RW trade… despite some head-scratching moves in FA. Keep doin’ what you’re doin’. This website has long been a favorite hang-out of mine, but the past week you’ve raised what was already a pretty high bar for insightful Seahawks analysis. Thanks again!!!
Thank you
Even Jim Nagy liked:
Hopefully that’s a bullet we’ve dodged by not being one of the “finalists”, even if we were “interested” at some point.
They had better be!
Watching those Georgia games reminded me of the 2013 Hawks.
Every ball carrier was SWARMED by multiple defenders, immediately.
And hit very, very hard.
Here’s a link to Josh Allen’s profile:
https://web.archive.org/web/20180405120922/https://www.nfl.com/prospects/josh-allen?id=32462018-0002-5600-29bc-8750224414bd
Thanks
With Pete & John scheduled to talk to the media today, I’m sure the selling of Drew Lock’s potential starts today as well.
I’ve not watched much of Lock but could a former 2nd round pick, 25 y/o with around twenty starts in his pro career, surprise us? Like Rob said, might as well see what he versus some of the other veteran QB fodder that’s out there.
I do think when Watson makes his choice that Seattle will explore the QB who’s all of a sudden jobless (Mayfield, Matt Ryan). Just depends on the price. A ’20 version of Baker could be fun.
I would love to see what Drew Lock is capable of. Really nice highlight real, but his play includes a ton of bonehead plays. His career isn’t over, and although unlikely, he could figure it out
Tannehill is the only QB that comes to mind that had that rough of a start and turned it around. The titans are stacked and we are not.
I don’t think Lock and say Jimmy G are miles apart from each other. Again the teams however are.
It’s going to be hard for him to have a new lease on QB’ing with our sieve of an oline and the games where the rush attack produces 34 yards in total. And none of that will be his fault.
I think he can be pretty good in the Seattle offense, but like you said, its all about the running game, right now there is no reason to believe we will have a good running game
I have some issues but he’s already here so I sort of feel like seeing the positive. Wish they had a third WR unless eskridge is the truth. Just so DK and Lockett could run lots of downfield, sideline routes. Because he has real snap on his passes.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nfl.com/_amp/edge-rusher-jermaine-johnson-ii-out-to-prove-breakout-year-at-florida-state-wasn
At least we know Seahawks met with Johnson and have a high opinion on him, hopefully it’s enough to trade up to get him if necessary…
What would it cost to go up to like #6 or #7? And is that something you could imagine them doing if they don’t land a top pass rusher in free agency?
By the chart at least, R4P109 might be enough to get up to #7. #6 would be closer to our R3P72, with perhaps some change in return from them, depending on whether we’re asking to move up or they’re asking to move down.
Carolina at #6 seems a more likely partner to me. They don’t have a R2 or a R3 pick and only 6 picks total, so moving down three spots and getting our R3 pick might be quite attractive to them. They also have two picks near the top of R5. So maybe:
SEA gets: R1P6 (446 pts.) + R5P149 (13 pts.) = 459 pts.
CAR gets: R1P9 (387 pts.) + R3P72 (67 pts.) = 454 pts.
I guess you would have to decide whether Jermaine Johnson is worth missing out on the guy you could get at #72.
It may also be that they would do it for our R4 pick if they have several guys on their board they would be happy taking at #9.
Perhaps a better idea for us since we have two R5 picks could be:
SEA gets: R1P6 (446 pts.)
CAR gets: R1P9 (387 pts.) + R4P109 (32 pts.) + R5P152 (12 pts.) = 431 pts.
https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart-Rich-Hill.asp?RequestTeam=sea
Oh, wow. That’s a serious quote there he let out:
I think pete is at his best working with young men.
Unless johnson turns out to be mcdowell on an atv I don’t care who we miss out on in the third round to aquire him. Especially with the draft stock and cash the following year.
Hate to lose a round 3 pick though, that’s the meat of the draft this year.
I see that. The two 2nds give me less reason to be concerned.
1. Johnson
2. Strange/jurgens
2. Chenal/tindall/Cross
No third…or
1. Willis
2. Same as above
2. Same as above
3. Pierce, RB ?
Not bad. And great if Willis is great. If Willis isn’t and the hit rate in QBs is pretty tough to get right the not only are we looking yet again at qb AND still chasing pass rush.
It’s all tough because everything is a bit of a crapshoot based on how coveted players are.
I would definitely rather give the R4 + R5 though.
I also forgot to mention the connection with Scott Fitterer that might facilitate a trade between us. Plus, it’s known he’s big on trading down and accumulating more picks. He went into last year’s draft with 7 picks and came out with 11 plus an extra R4 this year.
Seems they might be the ideal trade partner for us. Let’s hope they don’t trade away all their picks for Watson.
A trade with Carolina is realistic provided NYG go OL at #5.
Then, there’d be no reason for Carolina to pick at 6 vs 9. They’re expected to go OL.
So you mean if NYG go DL at #5…? Leaving CAR almost sure to get one of the two top OL at #9?
I guess the question is will NYG with their two top-10 picks go OL or DL first?
No.
The Giants pick at #5 and #7. If they take OL at #5, they won’t take OL at #7. So the Panthers are safe to trade back.
Sure a fourth is better for us. I’m just not married to the third round where Seattle gets all over the place is better than years on years with a bottoming out pass rush.
Miss on a Lockett level player. Sucks. However miss on a shaquill Griffin, Mike tyson? Who cares.
True, but I’ve kind of mentally slotted away that #72 pick for a stud RB if the board falls that way.
#6 Jermaine Johnson
#40 Abe Lucas
#41 Leo Chenal (or if one of the DTs somehow falls… Travis Jones?)
#72 RB (Zamir White on Rob’s recommendation or another if he’s gone)
A good RB might be the hardest player to miss out on.
I hope it’s a fourth and not a third.
If jones is in reach I’d preferhim to a LB. And I love the LBer’s. 35 year old woods and Harris is just fine but I want to see a young linemen with his strength and power.
I’ve added it to the piece.
There seems to be a connection there.
Great stuff Rob.
You know you don’t have to entertain us. Pretty sure most of us can wait on new articles and podcasts at least one day.
The absolute biggest concern I have with Willis is without seeming too pessimistic is anyone confident in Seattle’s ability to develop players at any positional group? Maybe pete got the early days cogs of the LOB up and running. Since then I am truly stumped trying to think of a player that improved beyond a naturally occuring timeline of just years at the position.
Your breakdown of Willis is pretty much it. Big arm. Can run. Pretty inaccurate. I feel like there’s so many more big armed innacurate college qb’s that fail then turn out to become Allen/mahomes. Not saying he’ll fail just that we don’t have Andy Reid on the team to create a system for him.
The Seahawks are such that I have two different worries about what they’ll do with #9.
1. Count on an Edge being there or a trade down if not. The top Edges go, no trade offer arrives. We ‘Collier’ it again.
2. We overdraft a QB. It’s a crapshoot in my view, they’re all flawed in some way, so we’d be better off rolling the dice at #41 than #9. We badly need #9 to be a worthy pick.
Life would be a lot easier if #9 was #5
My preference if all the top-tier Edge guys are gone at 9 would be to get a guy you really believe in at a key position. If that’s a QB you think is ‘The Guy’, then great. If it’s an OT, that’s great too. Even a LB (esp a pass rusher). Trade down if you think you can get one of those, but make SURE you get one.
That means don’t play games and let Lucas slide if there’s a rush for Edge at the top of the draft and good trade scenarios don’t materialize. As mentioned numerous times, there are numerous Dawgs in this draft (see Rob’s gold-highlight players). Get some!
Am less concerned about value here if our elite targets are gone. We need some Dawgs… not necessarily some deals.
In 2-3 years we will care less where we got him and more that he’s a stud,
What are your thoughts on a flyer on Minshew if we can get him for a low pick (or otherwise cheaply)? Or Jameis Winston on a one-year prove-it deal? I think either of those scenarios beats Lock and still keeps Hawks in the running for a top-10 pick next year (unless they surprise and Hawks win a lot of games, which is unlikely).
Minshew doesn’t have the physical tools. There’s a reason he’s buried on Philly’s depth chart, as fun as he might be as a person.
Jameis feels like the total antithesis of what Carroll wants in a QB.
Wasn’t “New James” almost overly protective of the football? Maybe my memory is poor on the matter, but I would agree that 30/30 Jameis isn’t a Carroll preference. Re: Minshew, you’re probably right, but there was also some sense of commitment to Jalen Hurts that could have worked against him. I’d rather see Minshew than Lock for the right price.
But the Seahawks really value tools and the deep ball. In that regard at least, Lock >>>> Minshew
Cowherd, sometimes very wrong and occasionally annoying, is nonetheless someone I find a good, worthwhile listen. He’s just labeled the Seahawks a “tire fire,” with a front office that “doesn’t know what it’s doing,” referencing the Jamal Adams trade, a “colossal overreach.” And, Cowherd noted he’s spoken to several GM’s who expressed surprise that Seattle didn’t obtain a third #1 for dealing Russell.
Meanwhile, KHJ 950 AM just said that Wilson has already appeared at a Denver Children’s hospital, concluding the appearance with what seems to be his new exhortation: “Let’s Ride!”
I suspect the tires will burn for 2-3 years. Once extinguished … meaning Pete and John, and hopefully Jody, are gone … then, and only then, can the true rebuild began.
Cowherd is a Russ-camp guy. The preferred mouthpiece for his agent. Tossing gas on the pile after he’s out the door is classless. RW should temper that nonsense and move on. It’s Prima Donna stuff.
And any GM who crabs about not getting a third #1 when it’s fairly clear RW only allowed 1 suitor to bid doesn’t deserve much respect IMO. There was a market of one, and RW had a big say in what was left in Denver after he arrived. Theoretical value based on an open market was a fantasy here. It was either trade to Denver for what you can get or suffer through another season of unlimited chaos.
Rob,
You’re on fire this week. Excellent writeup again! My fear is the O line. Any QB is going to suffer without an LT, RT and C. It certainly looks like they must be going with a dual threat QB and attempting to save money on the O line. That used to be the philosophy when they were converting late pick D linemen. Perhaps they think they can convert some late picks into run blockers and roll with a one read and go QB. That kind of worked with Wilson at the very beginning. But, you risk ruining your QB like RG III.
I’m also fearful they go with a QB like Willis with their first pick and a Daniel Faalele with their next pick (or slight trade up). That may work, and it will save a lot of cap space if it works and you get a QB and LT on the cheap. But, I hate missing out on this defensive class. I’m hoping they at least add some O linemen who are cut (Turner, Collins, if he’s cut, etc.).
I wouldn’t worry about Faalele.
A draft media creation. He’s too big.
He weighed 390lbs at his pro-day. It’s not good enough. He has to get that down. Jumped a bloody 7-10 broad.
Great piece Rob. I think you’re giving us a balanced perspective. It’s easy to say that Allen and Mahomes were top talents in hindsight, and that some of the QBs this year might have that potential, yet with their flaws it’s hard to invest so highly in them. Gulp hard before you turn that card in, boys.
Also, sorry to be Captain Bringdown (again) but Ryan’s cap hit would be much more if he became available. The current $8.75m hit assumes the restructure was processed (JasonOTC wrote on the front page that he decided to keep it that way until we hear otherwise), which it wouldn’t be if they traded for Watson. It’d be more like $23.75m and the Seahawks would want to massage that a bit if they traded for him.
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/710-seattle-sports-appearance-what-i-hope-happens#comment-612927
I’m glad you’re here to put me right on these things. I’m no good with all the cap stuff.
No worries.
The upside is it would tamp down the draft compensation. Like I said, maybe they could work out a “3rd round 2023 that moves up to a 2nd if X happens” type scenario.
It would give the team breathing room and if they aren’t absolutely sold on the QB options this year they could take their top non-QB at #9 see where they are at #40 and 41 and make a decision.
Schefter also pointed out that Ryan has a no trade clause. So it’d be an interesting 48 hours if Watson wants to go to Atlanta.
Have to imagine Indy would be a very attractive option.
Great point, Cha.
There is always a big tendency to frame everything in the context of what we know now, not what we knew then.
If these guys want to get back to competing, they need to rely on their scouting, have the courage of their convictions, and get their guy. No matter what.
If that means you think you have a QB that’s The Guy, then go for it. “Gulp hard before you turn that card in, boys…” is great advice, and it’s something they need to do if they are really sold on someone. As always, only time will tell if they’re right.
I kinda’ wonder if the fan base could even tolerate another 2012-style draft. Where we end up getting roundly panned, suffer innumerable ‘F’ grades by the pundits, but somehow still manage to draft a couple of Hall of Famers outside of R1.
If they screw it up, they’re gone. Such is life in the NFL.
If the big rushers are off the board by #9, where does Boye Mafe fit in the picture?
Short arms
Pre-emptive warning: this is a terrible idea
Could they pull an RG3/Cousins move in this draft? Take Willis at #9 and Coan or someone else mid-round. There’s a million reasons why this is a bad idea, but it would make me feel a little better(?) about taking any QB high in this draft.
That said, I’d much rather take a QB 2nd round or later, bring in a veteran Mariota-type, and have them battle it out (Eason, Lock, ?, Rookie) while using this draft and free-agency to build a new core and depth so that when you do find “that guy” at QB, the team is ready to rock. HOWEVER as a life-long Bears fan (Seattle transplant) I know exactly how well this can go…
I don’t think it’s a bad idea at all.
You’ve got to take your shots when you don’t have a QB.
It’s definitely something I can easily talk myself into or out of.
If the draft stole all their top-tier Edge guys early, this seems like kind of a good idea. Shoot bullets until you find your guy. Especially if there isn’t some other ‘gotta-have’ player when you pick your second QB.
My question on the 2022 rookie QB class is ‘who has the best processor?’
That’s huge for an NFL QB. IIRC Mahomes greatly impressed Reid with his.
I also hope for a patient, opportunistic, foundation building approach for the Seahawks. If that’s not the way the FO sees this roster then I believe them to be delusional. We finally have picks acquired at great cost. Do not F this up by trading them for someone else’s trash.
After reading up on what Kiffin had Corral do, i think Corral might. But I have also read that Corral has a party side (Manziel esque). I am very intrigued by Corral, i just dont know where his range is.
How about a comp for Malik Willis:
Malik Willis:
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/malik-willis/32005749-4c61-4428-8345-922a57c28423
Jalen Hurts
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jalen-hurts/32004855-5276-7022-85cf-a74490936f42
Dak Prescott:
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/dak-prescott/32005052-4528-5723-d1b2-96e92ebc1241
Lamar Jackson
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2769198-lamar-jackson-nfl-draft-2018-scouting-report-for-baltimore-ravens-pick.amp.html
A slower Michael Vick with Russel Wilson intangibles:
https://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=5802
A smaller EJ Manuel:
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1598723-ej-manuel-scouting-report-nfl-outlook-for-florida-state-qb.amp.html
Donovan McNabb
https://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=5133
Kordell Stewart:
https://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=23714
https://ras.football/2020/01/06/kordell-stewart-ras/?amp
A slower RG III
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/979087-robert-griffin-iii-2012-nfl-draft-scouting-report.amp.html
Some part of me worries that Allen and Mahomes have convinced everyone that picking the “toolsiest” guy is the best way to find a QB. The primary issue I have is that these guys are the exceptions, not the rule. Firstly, Mahomes went to one of the best offensive minds in league history, a coach now destined for the HoF. This is not to take anything away from Mahomes, but I am a very big believer that where a player goes is as or more important than who the guy is. Going to Reid made sure Mahomes’ flaws would be sorted, and it changed my opinion on the player. I thought he’d be a bust until he went to KC/
Allen is a similar but different case. Unlike Mahomes, who came out swinging after a year of learning, Allen spent two years stinking it up as a starter. I have never seen a QB play so badly for two years and then suddenly become one of the top three QBs in the league. Again, this is an exception not the rule. Most guys with talent like this never make that leap. Examples include Winston and Mariota, Sam Darnold, Carson Wentz, and RG3. Blake Bortles had a similar combination of size, athleticism, and arm strength. Allen may have been a fantastic (even generational) prospect, but he still almost busted.
I raise this point out of concern that we will pick an extremely talented QB (Willis in this case) that never pans out. Simply betting on talent doesn’t guarantee success, you have to develop and support the player. I see him in very much the same light as Justin Fields of last year. Could he end up the best QB in the league with his talent level? Absolutely. But odds are he (as most early pick QBs do) will flame out. I would personally take a shot on someone who has demonstrated consistency, grit, and leadership. I need to watch more of Corral to see if that could be him. Though an inconsistent passer, Ridder is enough of a winner I’d be ok with it. But I really don’t want to try and force Malik Willis at #9 purely because of upside that may never materialize.
Great piece Rob, as usual.. SDB has been brilliant this week.
I’m wondering if they are going to go with Matt Corral at #9. As you mentioned his quick game is better suited for our offense and I could see them seeing his own tools as worthy of the top pick. Not to mention, if he is “your guy” and you don’t want to mess around, they may pull the trigger.
I don’t love the idea of Corral at 9 but I do like his grit and tools. Also seeing his willingness to throw into tight windows and work within the offense stood out.
I would be very surprised at that. If their heart is set on Corral they can either trade back into R1, take him in R2 or trade down from #9.
I’ve been “very surprised” more than once by this FO & their first pick in the draft. They’ve shown a willingness to draft ‘their guy’ higher than anyone else predicted.
Sure, but this would be a bit extreme
Trading up would seem to me a strange option. Trading down would seem more consistent with their M.O., and probably a better plan given where they are right now.
The Hawks roster is a mess. We don’t have any starting OTs right now, with Forsyth and Curhan at the top of the depth chart. We don’t have anyone at C, and interior OL depth is a problem. We don’t have a trustworthy RB, and should probably cut the only guy who fits as a RB1 option. We don’t have a QB. We just lost our best CB, and currently have a guy coming off a major injury and two interesting reclamation projects in Sidney Jones and Artie Burns. We badly need to add talent at LB, DT, and DE. We also need a kicker. There are only a few spots on the roster where we are OK – S, WR, TE, P. The places we have good depth are non-premium positions that are bad places to invest resources. Cowherd’s ‘tire fire’ assessment is apt.
The Hawks are not close to being a playoff team next year. Their range of possible outcomes this year is probably between a 3 and 7 wins. If they sign a bunch of vets, they could hope for ~.500. That difference is utterly meaningless. However, the decisions they make now could have a huge impact a few years down the road. I hope they worry less about being competitive now, and more about being good later. They just traded a franchise QB, so the decision is already made. Those in charge need to recognize that this isn’t a competitive team for ~2 years, and really focus on the rebuild.
This draft has good depth. Given the huge laundry list of needs, I would hope they would try to add more picks instead of moving up. Trading Tyler Lockett and DK Metcalf makes a lot of sense. They could add high picks for those guys in the next two drafts. Given their needs almost everywhere, ‘best player available’ prioritizing high value positions (QB, OT, EDGE, DT, CB) seems like the best plan.
The contracts given to Dissly and Diggs indicate that the Seahawks see things quite differently. Both are fine, but the team seems to be valuing continuity and investing in guys who probably won’t help the team when they really need it 2 years from now.
Not sure what’s strange about trading up to get one of, if not the, best players in the draft.
I’d say Seattle have become as well known for trading up (in the 2nd) to get their guy as they are known for trading down (in the 1st) to collect picks. And I’d argue the reason why it’s been up in the 2nd and down in the 1st up to now is mostly due to late 1st round picks and how those drafts fell to Seattle in that position. No prospect has been worth trading up in the 1st for, and no draft worth trading up for has fallen far enough to make that a reasonable investment.
Until now. JJ is a legit game wrecking prospect.
But while I’m here, I gotta ask…
JJ + Chenal/Tindall
or
Wyatt Davis + Chenal + Tindall
or something along the lines of
9 + 40/41
or
Wyatt (mid teens) + 40/41 + mid 50s
I guess it comes down to where the Hawks see the tiers in this draft.
If they think Jonhson or Thibodeaux are the best players in the draft – a special talent (‘game wrecker’) – then go for it. However, there is certainly debate about how these guys should be ranked, with no clear generational talents and a bunch of guys in the 5-15 range who are very very good.
You’ve talked quite a bit about the depth of this draft. Moving up in the first round is expensive, and would cost us a chance to add a good talent.
The Hawks aren’t one special player away from being a good team. If they view the differences between those guys in the middle of the first round – especially if one of the top guys doesn’t slide to them at #9 – I could see them just taking the BPA at OL, DE, DL, CB. That could very well end up being Jonhson or Thibodeaux. If not, they will have some interesting options.
My point: the Hawks seem like they are in a great position to let the draft come to them. That includes picking a top guy who they a really like (particularly if someone slides) or potentially trading back a few spots to add additional picks.
“ My point: the Hawks seem like they are in a great position to let the draft come to them. That includes picking a top guy who they a really like (particularly if someone slides) or potentially trading back a few spots to add additional picks.”
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
As a side note: the work you’ve been posting in recent weeks has been phenomenal and much appreciated. Thank you!
What about the possibility of trading for Kellen Mond? At his age, perhaps a second does it, if the Vikings are willing to trade him after extending Cousins.
I don’t think it would take a 2nd round pick to acquire Kellen Mond from Minnesota(if that’s the asking price, hard pass) but I certainly have chewed on the possibility of them obtaining Mond for a day 3 pick and adding him to the QB competition and using this years picks to stack our defense.
Confirmed — Channing Tindall will be on Seattle’s radar:
https://twitter.com/robstaton/status/1504129659608444931
I’d love to get either of Tindall and Chenal or even both. I just hope they don’t go LB at 9. I agree that the main target should be a top DE. I could live with Davis, small chances though. I could accept a QB if they’re really sure about someone and don’t want to lose him, with a trade up for a DE. I could also understand going T if they find a guy. Anything else would be nonsense.
Sweet. Either one of them should work for Seattle. And at #41 it’s possible they might even have their pick of the two.
I think it’s likely they’ll have their pick of those 2 at 40/41. If it’s one or the other, which would you take?
I think Tindall is the LB version of ET3 – a relentless ball seeking missile. He covers so much ground it’s like bringing a little LOB to the LB group.
But I also think ILB is the bigger team need at the moment, and Chenal meets that need better than Tindall. Also think Chenal is the kind of violent, brutal player Seattle sorely lack. Wanna be the bad assess again? Chenal brings us closer to that goal.
In a perfect world, I’d draft both and terrorize the NFCw with the best LB corps in the NFL.
What about alternatives in Nakobe Dean (might go to early for us) and Quay Walker (may be available later). Or possibly a devin Lloyd at the 40 or 41 spot. Not the athletes as Tindall. But good football players.
Dean is going to last longer than people think
Very small, not testing
Do you think he could be an option? In the mold of Wagz. Smaller which makes him last? or does the lack of testing eliminate him?
“If Cleveland doesn’t acquire Deshaun Watson, they’ll likely try to put the toothpaste back in the tube with Mayfield.”
Best line I’ve read in a while, kudos Rob for the good laugh this morning!
I really hope they don’t take Willis at #9. There are so many holes to plug that it feels like they should do that and think of a new QB as the last piece of the puzzle. I am ok with one in a later round (like Coan or Corral), but OL, DL and LB are spots that really need attention first.
My new podcast is now available on Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/show/32TrVeCr8dJXauBUzddd9R?si=fa4f7f5db0424e3f
Nice! Just hit the five star ranking.
Thanks for this Rob.
The Podcast additions are a great addition. Thanks for the improvements.
Still unreal. I feel if a team wanted, he could shed 10-15 pounds and be just as quick as Aaron Donald.
https://twitter.com/BillyM_91/status/1504118665788248074
Still reading through the article, but first about EDGE…
I’ve been pounding my keyboard for several weeks now that Johnson is THE premier DE/EDGE defender in this draft. I’m just some guy online, but it’s nice to see external validation of my opinion.
FWIW, PFN’s identification of team needs suggests that EDGE is a need for 7 of the 8 teams who will pick before Seattle (absent any trad Whiches). Interestingly, the one team PFN says don’t need an EDGE are the Giants (which you have taking Johnson at #7).
Jacksonville need OT help so badly, I can’t imagine them spending the first pick on EDGE, especially in a draft with so few top OT prospects and so many good EDGE prospects.
Detroit could take EDGE with the #2 pick. They also need WR and LB (and QB, but I highly doubt they rank any of the QBs in this draft highly enough to take at #2). Plenty of good WRs and LBs to be had later, so I think Detroit will probably take an EDGE – one of Hutch, KT or JJ. Hutch makes a ton of sense, given his outstanding production, outstanding character and hometown ties. I think Detroit takes Hutch at #2.
Ditto Houston with respect to EDGE, unless they’ve enamored themselves of Kyle Hamilton (S is another BIG need for Houston). They also need CB, but does anyone think Strangely or Garnder are worthy of the #3 pick? I think Houston take either KT or JJ. Which would leave only one of the top 3 EDGE left.
The Jets just signed DJ Reed in FA, and although he’s no blue chip, I think he’s at least a hedge at CB that allows them to go with another position group at #4; they also desperately need S and LB. They’re not super solid at DE/EDGE, but they do have Carl Lawson and just signed John Franklin-Myers. I think safety is their biggest hole, and either Hamilton or Cine would be their pick at #4.
Then there are the Giants. With two picks in the top 7, do they use both, use one and trade down the other, etc.? PFN say that EDGE isn’t a need for the Giants. Let’s perception test that: currently, they have Dex Lawrence and Azeez Olujari (and Leonard Williams too if you count his pass rush from the DT spot). Those are decent starters. Not all pro, but definitely not a hole in the roster. And they also have big needs at RT, C, TE and WR. I can’t see them going EDGE (with either #5 or #7) with all those other holes to fill. I don’t think the Giants take an EDGE early.
The Panthers will either: (1) take a QB, (2) take the top OL prospect on their board, or (3) the top CB on their board. I don’t think they take an EDGE defender, and I don’t think they trade down, unless it’s to Seattle so the Seahawks can jump ahead of Atlanta (and the Giants just to be safe).
Already opined about the direction I think the Giants go with their top two picks, and neither is EDGE.
Which brings us to Atlanta. They desperately need an EDGE and I’m fairly certian they’ll take the top one on their board at #8. If Seattle want one of the top 3 – JJ/Hutch/KT – they’ll have to jump ahead of Atlanta to guarantee they get one. And because the Giants have two picks in the top 7, I think they should be Seattle’s primary trade target. According to the pick value formula, moving up from 9 to 7 should cost a late 3rd round pick, in the 85-95 range. Seattle don’t have one in that range this year. Their 3rd round pick is too early and worth too much, and their 4th round pick not enough. They could probably get it done with their 2023 2nd round pick. I’d be in favor of doing that.
This is why I hate draft value charts.
The one I’m looking shows Seattle trades their third to the Giant’s they give us back a fifth and we’re only down 8 points in valuation. Swap fourths and we’re up two points.
No that works too. Our 3rd is worth too much, so the Giants send their 5th round pick (a high 5th round pick) back to even it out.
The various value charts may differ in terms of specific value for a specific pick, but they’re consistent with each other relative to trade value.
They are based on real trades made in the past few years. At least the Rich Hill chart which was an update on the old Jimmy Johnson chart referred to by teams in the past.
I’ve checked real trades in past drafts against the charts and they are remarkably accurate.
I think I’m in the minority here, looking for some input.
I don’t think Willis is their target, I see going Edge and then QB, I think it’s Ridder, He is the most pro ready, he struggles with accuracy but many including Palmer feel his long stride and extra steps when dropping back are fixable. Fix these issues and the accuracy improves dramatically.
My humble opinion, Willis scares the heck out of me.
I don’t think you’re in the minority. At least here on The Rebuild. Most of us think Willis is NOT a target, and most of us are relieved by that thought.
But I also don’t think Ridder is a target either. I don’t think they take a QB in this draft, unless it’s a Day 3 flyer on Coan.
With mayfield talk heating up I think that might be it for QB. What’s mayfield worth on a one year rental if the browns land Watson? A fifth?
Eric Barriere, QB Eastern Washington
Watch some of his tape, it’s like a young Russell Wilson playing at an FCS school! He’s 6’1″ and 210 lbs
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/eric-barriere-eastern-washington-qb-nfl-draft-scouting-report-2022/
Rob4q,
Thanks, he certainly has many aspects to his game that are similar to a young Russ, Eric is exciting to watch!
He only has 8 1/2 inch hands though, :O If that really means anything lmao…Ask Pickett how he feels about the small hand discussion.
I think they’ll trade back to 15 or so and take Ridder
That’s way too early
who knows what’s in their heads, but it just feels right that this is the year we re-stock the defense in the draft, add O-line in free agency (and next year in the draft); throw Lock out there and take our lumps. it’s been a long, good run, now we need to rebuild the foundation.
grab the next QB1 in the ’23 draft – we’ll have even more draft capital, and sounds like better options.
Mayfield is connecting himself to the Seahawks
https://twitter.com/aaronwilson_nfl/status/1504144030610993152?s=21
Well, that would certainly be in keeping with their long-standing drama meme. And would be hard to deny that Baker would get here with a pretty good-sized chip. Angry Baker Mayfield, anyone?
I’m not sure Seattle will share his interest
Baker doesn’t seem like a PC guy to me
Nooooooooooo! Please don’t let this happen
I’m no Mayfield fan, but I’d be willing to trade a 2023 4th for him (conditional 3rd if he makes the roster, is active for a certain number of games, whatever)
Lock and Mayfield is a decent QB competition. And frankly, either one would be a superior backup than Geno.
This is about how I feel too, but I’d make it a 5th. Seems like Baker has more potential. You have to admit that he has grit after playing hurt all last season. Pete likes grit in his players.
Progressive Insurance commercial:
Baker shown getting evicted from the Browns stadium.
He’s now living in a van.
Driving from stadium to stadium looking for a home, with that half smug, half weary look on his face.
No theme music. Just deep sighing.
Fade to black. “We hear you, America. It’s been hard.”
That’s too funny!
The follow-on would be him ending up living in a tent in Pioneer Square, panhandling for coffee, then seeing the light rise over Century Link to rising strains of angels singing and harp music. Baker looks to the camera… grins… screen fades to black.
“He saved 20% by switching to Seahawks”
I would be very interested to hear what potential trade value is being talked about for some of the names that have been mentioned… Mayfield, Minshew, Huntley, etc…
Am I wrong in thinking that the Browns may actually give up a pick (ala Brock Osweiler situation) just to move Mayfield and his $18+M contract? If the Browns are the choice by Watson, not only would Cleveland need the cap space, but would probably prefer he moves to the NFC.
Huntley maybe a 6th. Udfa with around 200 yds a game and a near 1:1 td/int ratio. Ravens aren’t trading him. Their starter still has no contract and gets hurt.
*shrug*
Rams awarded 5 comp picks this year. With their ability to draft, they’re in great shape despite no picks til round 3.
Rams fans root for a team run by smart people and coached by a smart person.
GTFO
Interesting way to throw the Washington FO under the bus.
Not sure “our client’s employer totally dropped the ball and got ex-girlfriend envy” is really the best PR tack here.
I think he put his agents in a tough spot wanting to go back on his word, and agents had to oblige to his wishes but at the same time did the best they could to publicly pin it to their client and not themselves.
I’m interested.
Sure seems like the IDL options are deep this year.
Ouch.
Oh my
It would appear that the Commanders are poorly named. They appear to have little command at all.
More angry players with a chip. Yes, please!
I don’t think we should draft a QB until Aaron Donald retires…
Ok, I laughed at that!
Someone will reach on a quarterback ahead of Seattle. Someone always does. And another offensive tackle will probably get selected, too. Despite all the song and dance about how much they love Daniel Jones, I’m not convinced New York won’t take a quarterback. And having two picks in the top-10 probably gives them the runway to do so. Jones has been injury prone and erratic. He’s had three years.
Also: the Lions. It’s the Lions. There’s a decent chance they’ll mess this up.
Even if not–even if your worst-case scenario emerges, Seattle should be able to trade back a few spots to a team wanting an offensive lineman, and pick up another third or something. Then they could draft someone worthy of being excited about–Wyatt or Ojabo or Abe Lucas. Surely signing a 35-year-old defensive tackle doesn’t preclude drafting one.
Then use that additional pick filling another one of the holes which are all over the roster.
So if Watson wants the Saints, today would be rather convenient…
Trent Williams played LT at Oklahoma https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-icEPTOeKhk
Might be thinking of Lane Johnson
Isn’t there concern about Malik transferring to Liberty? I guess I feel like he transferred from an SEC football program like Auburn, couldn’t hack it and went to a smaller program where he looks good playing against other smaller programs. How’s he going to look playing against NFL teams? I mean I get Wilson transferred to Wisconsin but he certainly didn’t downgrade wit his transfer.
I’ve veen concerned for some time that he didn’t get looks outside of Auburn. Maybe he’s super religious and really wanted to play there. Bit concerned he was a so-so passer at such a sub fbs level.
First off, looking forward to The Rebuild. (great name) I’ll be leaving glowing reviews on the Apple podcasts too! You’ve been my favorite perspective on the Hawks ever since I (foolishly) wanted to draft Jake Locker in round one. Appreciate you Rob.
To my point,
I would prefer the mature approach of adding a game wrecking edge rusher, a starting LT, or a lockdown CB at #9. But I agree with Rob, that Pete has no interest in a “tanking” season. Drew Lock may surprise, especially with DK and Lockett, but that’s about as much of a gamble as drafting Malik Willis at 9.
But imagine Willis having an offense catered to him and all his tools. Imagine the stress on opposing defenses. It goes against my normal beliefs when drafting a QB, but Willis has plenty of Mike Vick in his game to get excited about. But busting on the pick you traded Russell Wilson for, would get PCJS fired and set the franchise back a few more years.
Malik Willis is THE ultimate boom or bust prospect. PCJS better believe wholeheartedly if they are going to pull that trigger. For my money, if Hutch, Kayvon, and Johnson or gone then you go Cross or Penning. If they are gone you grab Gardner or Stingley. Corral in the second.
Well there’s something
Looks like a draft hedge which is encouraging
Indeed. And not a bad hedge in my opinion. I’m encouraged.
I start trusting Desai. I liked the CB move too.
My thoughts as well. Scheme fits for sure.
Same. It seems there is a plan to target specific players for the scheme they want to run.
Whether that plan will work out or not remains to be seen, but at least there appears to be an actual plan, which for us is already progress over the PC/Norton years…
I like the move and the planning. He’s listed as a LB in the tweet and an edge in the description below. Do you see him as a hedge for an edge at #9 or an LB at #41? Who would be a good hedge for the other selection?
I don’t know anything about Nwosu since I don’t watch the Chargers. Is this a good get for us?
He played in a system that Desai will teach. A solid player who may not be a game breaker, but neither will he cost you a game with bad play.
Just a solid guy for the new system. Allows flexibility come draft day.
Cowherd just reported Chandler Jones to the Raiders
Haha. Poor Russ…
Russ joined the AFC West and every other team decided “oh yeah, let’s make his life hell”
I was afraid he stays with the Cards. Good news.
ughhhhh…and i was JUST daydreaming about having a pass rush rotation with him, taylor, dunlap and jjohnson
I’ve just updated the article to include notes on Nwosu
Sheil Kapadia’s free agent ranking/review:
This is encouraging! Also, thanks for updating the article with notes on this guy.
Good. At least we’re spending on the right positions now!
“Smelll the coffee” time, this was the most John and Pete have paid for a free agent since they arrived. This is our main pash rush acquisition for this year, The R1#9 will be a QB, based on all the circumstantial evidence. Maybe a small trade-down first, but John and Pete admitted later how close they came to losing Russ before their R3 pick, so they won’t risk it.
Calm down James.
Firstly, your first statement lacks any kind of context. It’s inevitable they were going to break a spending record given the cap increases every year. That’s a total nothing-burger of a fact.
The rest of your comment, and your other one which basically said the same thing which I’ll pass on, is melodrama and assumption.
Thanks for those notes. My first reactions were twofold
1-“hey look we’re addressing the pass rush! Another junk-drawer addition to the Hyder-Mayowa Collection!”
2-“He’s got great pass rush measurables. So naturally we’re going to play him and LB and ask him to spend most of his time covering running backs and tight ends.”
I’m hoping this add is a positive one. Exhausted by having my hopes dashed the last 3 seasons.
I think we’re all pretty exhausted by the last 3 seasons man.
Age. That’s a big difference alone. We need young talent, on the rise.
I was thinking the same thing – junk-drawer – until I learned a tiny bit more about him.
I think it does signal the end of the Rasheem Green era and if they pick up a 1st round DE, it’ll probably end the Mayowa era. Hyder may stick around since he can move inside as an obvious pass down rusher.
Since the Russ trade have my emotions swinging from Pete & John are terrible with no plan to maybe they’re not terrible to oh yeah, they’re terrible back to maybe they’re not terrible. I guess I’m still a fan with some hope, but it’s going to be a challenging few weeks until we see a near-final roster.
Quick hits
30 pressures last year would have led the Seahawks
Not crazy that they doubled his snaps from 2020 and his sacks went from 4.5 to 5, and his PFF slid from 73 to 64.
But his pressures went from 17 to 30.
I can see their thinking on him. Especially since he’s 25.
IRCC the Chargers drafted him as a hedge against an oft injured Melvin Ingram, and when Ingram left he stepped up. I’m not at all disappointed with the signing or the money. Like you though, I definitely hope they don’t call the pass rush fixed with just him.
he also seems to excel in the art of batted balls…
if this is the physical profile they’re looking for, then we probably ought to keep an eye on David Anenih
Slightly more gruntled today with Burns and Nwosu – solid additions for not a lot of cash.
One question: Will the ‘At Home with Baker Mayfield’ commercials now take place at the Clink, or whatever the new name of the Clink is?
I beat you to that joke by about 45 minutes.
Try to keep up.
I’ll try to do better.
OMG, has anyone heard that Chandler Jones signed with the Raiders?!!!
Apparently not.
You guys had me literally LOLing
Heh
Cool mic’d up video from last year!
https://youtu.be/uAbCD9sJlKE
Fun highlight vs chiefs!
https://youtu.be/lFU7m1zmRrc
Are we sure this isnt the Mayowa, Hyder “look we fixed the pass rush and now we’re free to draft a QB at 9” addition?
As a hedge I like it, but I could also see them looking at Taylor, Dunlap, Nwosu, Robinson quartet as enough.
If anything I hope it’s a reason to cut Mayowa.
No. We’re never sure. If it was sure, he’d be a lot more expensive.
However, he’s younger with good measurables and upside-trending. Seems like our new younger staff guys are maybe getting decent input into what they want to see added.
Still early. But this seems like a pretty decent player to take a risk on. Add a good pass rusher in the draft and things start looking much better overall.
Happy with the new signing. He seemed to get favorable blog comments when he was drafted – great intensity, great leadership. He seems to have some snap about him. I like this.
Will the Nwosu signing cancel out a compensation pick?
“For the Seahawks, signing Uchenna Nwosu to a 5th round valued contract for compensatory pick purposes will cancel out the 5th round valued contract DJ Reed signed with the Jets.”
https://twitter.com/nickkorte/status/1504158853436379138?s=20&t=bYc74xkYwPlj7hpqXxFvUA
Thank you, V.
Rob, to start, just awesome. Super happy this blog is here and i really appreciate all the hard work you put into it. It does not go unnoticed.
I am very fearful of them drafting a qb early. I think the only way this works is if they go back to what pete wants. He clearly wont give up control. Go back to a hard nosed defense and a great running game. To do that, they need to be able to rush the passer with 4. Get the DE that can change a game. If you need to trade up a few spots, do it. Fill in your roster at LB, CB, OL. Get a stud RB that can get the hard yards and brings the punishment. I look forward to reading more. And I am going to start listening to your podcasts, very excited.
ALSO PETE and JOHN, if you read this, DO NOT SIGN KAPP! DONT DO IT!
Now that the Hawks signed Uchenna Nwosu they will have more flexibility in the draft. The question of the day is does this signing me the Hawks might be looking for a QB early in the draft(1st or 2nd round?)
To me it is starting to look more and more like the Hawks are going to go heavy for offense in the draft.
Now that the Hawks signed Uchenna Nwosu they will have more flexibility in the draft. The question of the day is does this signing me the Hawks might be looking for a QB early in the draft(1st or 2nd round?) To me it is starting to look more and more like the Hawks are going to go heavy for offense in the draft.
Preferred option? Build a young fast hungry and violent defence in 2022, then use BOTH our top 10 picks in 23 (ours and Denver’s) to take Will Levis.
NFL rules prohibit selecting a player more than once.
… by trading them to get into position.
‘Twas a joke, silly
Oh, so he comes with an injury asterisk as well…
Plays well while hurting. That’s very important in this sport.
Perhaps the fact that I don’t have a favorite team and thus no vested interest effects how I view the NFL landscape but the Deshaun Watson talk has perplexed me from the start.
Acquiring Watson would likely cost all the draft capital Seattle accrued from trading Russell Wilson putting the Seahawks in the same position they were in before they dealt Wilson, which is to say the position of a talent bereft organization with minimal resources to improve.
I’ve also wondered why Watson would want to play for Pete Carroll. I can’t help but imagine he’d have the same issues Russell Wilson had. Then there’s the continued need for Watson to improve his deep accuracy, a trait reportedly valued by Pete Carroll.
I think someone jumps Seattle for Willis’ services. Ron Rivera has experience with a Willis style quarterback, Detroit could be enticed to swap places with the Giants, Panthers or Falcons. Willis could sit behind Goff for a year before ascending to QB1. Meanwhile either the Panthers or Falcons could take Willis if they miss out on Watson.
While this organization currently makes me think of the Dallas Cowboys in the final years of the Tom Landry era, I do think there’s gold in building up a quality team and sorting out the QB as you go. People may have forgotten because of Ben Roethlisberger and now Patrick Mahomes but it’s worked to great success in Pittsburgh and Kansas City.
We just added Austin Blythe per Schefty
Couldn’t poach the Rams’ current Center, so we went for their old one…
WE HAVE GOT A CENTER!
This had better be dirt cheap. Per PFF:
Another draft hedge?
Doesn’t sound promising. Bringing in competition?
I was an athlete (lol far from elite) and a 3 week timeline for returning after a sports hernia procedure seems nuts, though hernia tears are of course different. And an inguinial hernia differs from a so called sports hernia.
It is concerning if he didn’t heal in 6 – 8 weeks.
He was a name I bought up as a cheap alternative to Allen. Same scheme, went to the Chiefs and an injury and Humphrey prevented him having a chance.
Upgrade over Pocic who also doesn’t prohibit a draft pick. Great move.
Yes it is a good move, although size wise he is a bit in the Joey Hunt mould.
Looks like they’re grabbing scheme-fit guys on post-injury opportunities. Not necessarily sacrificing draft picks (comp or trade). Adding pieces in draft hedge spots.
Can’t be worse than Pocic/Fuller, but doesn’t excite. Still expect them to draft an IOL.
We signed Austin Blythe
https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1504181759977660417
I thought he was a Ram? Man, need to catch up.
Listening to Russell’s press conference now … he’s spoken very graciously about PC/JS, the Seahawks, and Seattle, going on for some length, even naming Tater as an inspiration. Damn, I miss him.
You think you miss him now, wait til the seasons starts.
No more RW sexy deep balls, mind meld with Lockett… 😢
Rob, I feel very relieved that you did a thorough QB analysis and didn’t consider Kaepernick as a viable option. I can sleep better now.
https://twitter.com/WillBrinson/status/1504179668651581443?cxt=HHwWhoC9xY3c9d8pAAAA
And from Baker… https://twitter.com/bakermayfield/status/1503914793228402689?cxt=HHwWgoCs7ami_d4pAAAA
Looks like he might be moving along regardless.
RW press conf if you’re interested in going to your ex’s wedding
https://youtu.be/a8zlRci54mk
The one positive of not having Russ as our QB any longer is that I don’t have watch any of his press conferences! That’s a HUGE bonus!!!
Good human being. Absolute dullard/cornball though.
I know, I’ll miss him as our QB. Cornball is a good term for him.
Spot on Jordan
My cousin in Aurora, CO asked what Russ was really like.
I told him to record one presser, then replay it after every game, instead of waiting for the actual presser that day.
Q: You had a no trade clause, what made it Denver for you?
A: George Patton, his focus, his plan, also to meet Hackett and talk about his philosophy. I knew there was gonna be a change, and it had to be right for me. If I was going to waive my no trade, it had to go to a winning team. Players made it too. Excited about it.
Q: Process of next team, what separated Denver from others?
A: For me, both feet on ground in Seattle. Focused on winning. Season ended, process of that, what’s next. Super excited about what we could do there. Things started changing, something could happen. Once I found that out, time for me to go different direction. Part of sports. Pete and John great along the way. Could be time where I say no with my NT clause. Knew these guys are great FB players. Quickly over last 10 days, study Broncos quickly, figure out fit, all signs said yes.
Q: Earning trust of Broncos locker room? Talk to Manning, pave way to Denver?
A: Trust is communication, show up and work. Demand excellence. Engaging in huddle. Want offense to believe this play can go to the house. California in offseason working. Work ethic number one. Peyton, once this thing very real, I called him, what does he think about city and schools. Then about org. His experience. What went well? What didn’t? Big decision. Love for Seattle, always have, gonna be a change here. Great players get great at adjusting. Time to adjust.
Q: Seahawks said you initiated this trade. Why?
A: I didn’t initiate. Mutual. I didn’t initiate anything. Happy to be here. Happy for ten years. Have to read about it later, have some fun.
Q: Demand from teammates?
A: Knowledge of game.
Q for George: Expectations?
A: Hackett: Competing at highest level at all times. Getting to the dance
George: Expectations high. No good talking, put in work.
Q: Legacy for Broncos? How many years more?
A: 10-12 more years, 3 more Super Bowls. Mindset came here. Finish on top as champion.
I don’t post links often, if it’s not allowed I’m sorry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKvqIFTCVYw
Your posts are gold, Cha.
Well chances are we’ll have a lame season with no solution at QB, but we might end up with a better OL than the one of Broncos 🙂
Just watching RW3 in Denver, just spent minutes reminiscing about Seattle. He never wanted to leave. Hurts
Don’t get me wrong. Ofc he went to Denver cus Seattle didn’t get it done. But imagine punting on a franchise QB to keep alive that FO..
Dude, he had a list of like a dozen teams he and his reps were scouting. He was ready to go. His whole persona is trying to be “the good guy.”
Yeah, I’m over the “Awe, shucks, I really wanted to be there” routine.
Yea I’m glad he’s gone bc I’m sick of his good guy schtick, and have been for a couple of years. Next.
Of course the Seahawks would spin it this way, but Jody, Pete, and John all point their collective fingers at Russ. Jody’s statement starts with “While Russel made it clear he wanted this change”. We’ll never know all the details but we know how the Seahawks will tell the story.
https://twitter.com/Seahawks/status/1504191589622575107?s=20&t=gawBDB6V3n1RERQvrT9W8w
Released right during RW’s press conf too.
Tacky AF imo
And I for one would’ve wanted the hell out of the “JV offense” (Greg Olsen, former Seahawk’s words!) he was part of here.
That meme is wrong, by the way. Olson did not say that the talent level on offense was “JV” level.
He said that it was plenty good. But he also said that he was puzzled why the team was making strategic decisions as if the talent was JV level.
Guy put out a list of teams, he had one foot out the door already.
Like I said above, probably was sick to death of running that Petey’s “JV offense” (Greg Olsen’s description).
Anyone and everyone can wade in here and talk shit about the guy all they want, won’t change my mind. Bottom line is if you were in his shoes, you’d have wanted out too. JV fucking offense
Agree.
How many seasons did he give them to fix the OLine? To actually do something in FA/Draft? To let him throw the football?
Seattle punted on him long before he wanted to leave.
If I had a no trade clause and knew the team wasn’t going to resign me I’d look for other teams as well.
Heck it worked for both sides. What should he have done? Played out a meaningless season here and walked for just cash leaving seattle with no picks back in return.
And risk potential career-ending injury as well. They never really protected him they way the should have since they traded Unger.
Great point. Lame duck year and the chance of getting super hurt. Why would he do that?
I agree. If Pete & John built a good team around Russ, he’d still be here. I don’t blame Russ for wanting out. I’m more disappointed and sad that it ended this way.
You speak the truth, Big Mike.
RW smirking a little to hard when a reporter asked why now he felt like change was needed.. And he can’t help to smirk while saying he didn’t initiate the trade..
I call BS.. If the top of the seahawks organization wants to let out a little info about it and not deny and make a blanket thank you.. I trust them a whole lot more than Russell’s rah rah its about the players rant.. his face says it all..
Careful not to over interpret that. Russ-O-Tron default mode is a smile. Moreso when running the Denver Intro Subroutine.
He had the same smirky expression when he was talking about his father dying earlier in the press conference. I think we can agree he wasn’t happy about that.
geezus jody, why did paul leave the team to you?
Trent Brown will visit the Seahawks tomorrow.
Again I’d totally love the move.
Hope it’s fair but cheap. Dude has missed a good chunk of time.
From the sounds of it, he’s looking for longevity and financial security.
https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2022/03/14/free-agent-trent-brown-looking-for-specific-things-in-next-destination/
But given his injury history, I’m with you. I’d rather load that contract with low guarantees.
They will offer him last year’s market price plus 10%, he will use it as leverage, get 20% above last year’s market for his position/talent. Seattle will then trade a fifth rounder for the 38th ranked player at his position, and pay only 10% less than their offer to Brown. Carrol will say they were in it to the end, just misjudged the market…
This movie sucks and I’ve seen it before! I want my money back Jody Allen!
Seems like one-year, 4 million for Blythe
Interesting. Sounds like a serious overpay based on the tweet posted above where he was expected to pull 1.125
That’s what I was thinking
Some of the seahawks roster do not like your comment
Yeah, I want to know who we were bidding against that led to this contract… We had an opportunity to sign him last year and didn’t. He went to the Chiefs for 990K, lost his starting spot (deservedly so) to Creed Humphrey and then got a hernia in preseason before being relegated to interior backup…. how the hell does that result in a market bump of 3.1 M??
I’m really hoping that initial report is taking a lot of incentives into account. Nwosu’s contract too.
Especially considering we had a shot at him last year and he signed for 1/990K with the Chiefs as a draft hedge. He got a hernia and preseason and slid into a backup role after they drafted Creed Humphrey. Not sure how that series of events and being a year older equates to a 3.1M raise.
Hope it’s an incentive-laden contract built around starts and not roster bonuses.
Absolutely. He signed a 1/990K deal last year as a draft hedge for the Chiefs, proceeded to get a hernia in the preseason and was an interior backup after they drafted Humphrey. Not sure where he earned the 3.01M pay raise, unless his market was as hot as Dissly’s.
My apologies for the over replies. Newbie mistake.
These signings are nothing different than 1990s Seahawks football.
Guys most of us have never heard of get signed and we talk ourselves into liking them and thinking we’ll be good or spending $20 for a hedge.
I’m too old to fall for that crap again.
Anyone think any of our current defenders are anything close to Cortez Kennedy? None of our OL are as good as Kevin Mawae. Those crap Seahawks teams had plenty of good players, too. Plenty band-aids as well.
Well, the good news is that the have 3 picks in the top 41, in a draft loaded with front 7 defensive talent.
Now they just need to actually use those picks wisely. And that’s where the anxiety comes in.
Just because the 90s happened doesn’t mean Russ is our only shot ever at landing a franchise QB. Even if it’s not this year.
I think it’s less about Russ and more about the time ownership just didn’t care
💯 BobbyK
Close to Cortez Kennedy is a pretty tough standard. And it’s not a binary situation–“close to Cortez Kennedy” or “crap and useless.” The signings so far make some sense.
The CKs are more likely going to come from the draft anyway, because in free agency they would be prohibitively expensive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvNFlYB1qAA&ab_channel=SeattleSeahawks
This was pretty cringe, but also made my quite emotional. So yeah, fitting.
It was quite emotional, but is couldn’t help but notice nearly all the highlights were pre 2016.
Even the off-field stuff on camera was mostly Russ with a younger face and his earlier haircuts.
It’s like we are remembering 2012-2016 Russ and 2017-2022 Russ as totally different people.
It made me think how one right pick can change the course of a whole franchise. Russ was #75. This year we have #72. You just never know.
For those interested, here is the youtube link to Pete and John’s presser scheduled for 2:30pm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_dN9gYAmKE
Seahawks have disabled the chat feature LOL
Somebody in PR is on the ball! Smart move.
Interestingly, the video description still links to Russell Wilson’s Youtube channel
It appears to still be enabled as far a I can tell. Maybe I’m just seeing earlier comments still.
Did anyone ever tweet Rob’s questions from yesterday?
You’re right, I refreshed it and the comments came up. It’s so strange that Youtube hosts live events but can’t update them live. It happens on Rob’s streams too.
Odds we’ll get a cardboard-cutout style ‘we think we’re funny but this really looks silly’ moment are pretty high.
The spam is unbearable in that live chat though. They need to turn on a 30 second cooldown.
And yes, there is bound to be some cringe and some sly “we know we’re smarter than everybody, but we just can’t tell you about it yet” looks between them.
Just hide the chat, it’s all garbage anyway and just annoying. Unlike Rob’s youtube chats where people ask real Qs and make good observations.
It’s also being streamed on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_dN9gYAmKE
Sorry Tom 🙂
I thought you’d linked the stream from seahawks.com
At Russ’s presser, in response to a question, he said he did not initiate his separation from the Seahawks — “it was mutual.”
They all use “initiated” to sound mature, but today’s statements from the Seahawks and Russ all have a big childish “but you started it” vibe from both sides.
Yesterday: What are we doing at CB!?
*Sign Artie Burns
Today: Ohhhh not that guy.
Yesterday: What are we doing on the O Line!? I don’t want to see Pocic again!
*Sign Blythe, Line up visit with Brown
Today: Too much money!
Yesterday: We need an Edge hedge!
*Sign Nwosu
Today: We gonna lose our comp pick?
Oyyyy…..
Haha there are elements of that. I think it’s more the trepidation that we all know the front office can make such bad decisions.
On the face of it, it does appear though the new younger coaches maybe having some influence.
I for one like the defensive signings. I’ve kind of felt for a long time that comp picks are to be worried about when you are good at roster building.
Blythe i just get vibes he’s a hedge because they might finally try to draft a decent center.
Sports fandom.. either you’re winning the championship or your pissed off lol
And it doesn’t take much to become pissed off shortly after winning a championship.
The only happy sports fans currently are fans of the Tampa Bay Lightning, LA Rams (mostly because you’re living in So Cal) and the Canadian Soccer Men’s National team
Canadian Women’s soccer team is fairly happy too.
No matter how Seattle and Russ try to spin this story, it’s obvious to me that if JS and PC had 1) not turned one of the two best rosters in the NFL in 2014 to a roster so bad they couldn’t win 8 games with a Top 5 NFL QB 8 years later and 2) had PC been willing to adapt AT ALL on offense and give Russ the same respect other top QBs get by listening to him on offensive players in FA and the draft, Russ would never have left.
Any way you slice it, PC and JS ruined a great roster in 8 years, and ran the best player in the Teams history out of town. To me, that’s going to be their legacy, not that they won a Super Bowl. Because if I were a betting man, I’d bet Russ wins at least one more SB, and that PC never does.
And Jody Allen will be remembered as the owner who sat and smuggled penguin skulls and Giraffe femurs while this happened, then doubled down and chose a 70 year old coach over a franchise QB in his prime.
https://twitter.com/Sullyvander/status/1504205987141636098
Press Conf w PC and JS
PC “Welcome back. Story to tell you. USC meet with John Wooden every spring. One year I had this thought. Coach, how much do you change your philosophy. Wooden looked at me. Philosophy doesn’t change! Players change. It’s important to make a statement here. Been here a long time. Lot of years working for Allen family. Philosophy, how we operate has been expressed. Continue to grow, stay abreast of times, philosophy is what it is. Competing.
Where we are now, another statement of philosophy. You local people can count on where we’re going. Proud of that, proud we know what we’re doing. Kick into high gear. Wanted to make that clear. Great time of year. Challenged to the max. Opp to help our franchise. Players coming and going, financial considerations, so many elements. Hard decisions too. Free agency in a sense is about giving guys a second chance. Believe in it. Fought for guys to get a second chance.
Lynch from Buffalo, clear thought to what he brings. Jamal Adams in New York felt he needed a second chance. Thrilled, huge decision to give him that opp. Totally makes sense. You all know what that’s all about. Quandre stepped up in Detroit, said some things, not in great favor. We gave him a second shot, look at what happened. Signed to a huge deal. Al Woods too, fantastic season after thinking he might be done. Darrell Taylor, looking to the future. Rod in his leg. Barely getting through. Get Darryl a whole new outlook, second chance to make first impression. Incredible year. Showed side we hadn’t seen first year. Geno Smith did some great stuff for us. Another second chance guy.
This trade we just made. Drew Lock. Loved him in the draft. Tried to trade up for him. All the promise his rookie season. Next two years didn’t work out well. Battled his tail off. Second chance? Heck yeah it is. We’ll find out. Can’t wait to see it happen.
Russell was looking for a second shot. Is there something else out there? He’s got a second shot at the NFL. Wish him the frickin best. He’s gonna fly, do great stuff. Support him, wish him well. Second chances so important to look at.
You’re gonna ask about Colin Kaep. He contacted me the other day. Does that guy deserve a second shot? I think he does. Is it here? I don’t know, it may be it may not be in football. I don’t mean to send mixed messages, it’s second chance time.
Johnny’s wheeling and dealing to help our club. Culture time. Players want to be part of this club. Something way we op and function, great landing shot. Chance for me to recruit guys. Also difficult to leave. Care for them, look after them, make it fun. Comes to it, hard to leave.
Lose a guy like Bobby Wagner, heartbreaking. HOFer. Everything he touched golden. Tough decisions just like when we started. Most guys come back, live in town, reconnect with culture. Worked hard to get that done.
Excites the hell out of us. Great time, great challenge. All we see is what’s gonna go the right way. Build a championship freakin football team RIGHT NOW. No future thing, never looked at it that way. That’s where we’re going. No misunderstanding at all.”
John
“Respect for Bobby and Russell. Both guys missed. Excited to be moving forward. Everchanging NFL. Difficult decisions to make, wish them the best. Missed personally and professionally. Leading into the offseason, to be able to recognize leaders, like Quandre, Woods, Dissly, Cody Barton enthusiastic hard working young man, a lot of guys.
Big deal to resign our free agents. Still working through a bunch of our guys. Continue to try to resign our own, upgrade with other guys as well.
Trade with Russ was very unique. Traded Favre in GB, traded iconic player, same with RW here. Denver phenomenal, known Patton for a long time. Kept things tight. Answer Q’s as appropriately as we could.
Guys coming in now exciting. Lock really liked him. Moving the pocket, excited to get him in our culture. Fant is only 24. Harris gets in lanes, fun guy in locker rom. Added Burns, Desai coached. Nwusu, Ivan loves him. Blythe coached w Waldron and Dickerson, excited to bring him in. Sidney Jones also.
Preparing for draft, room, Matt Thomas’ office (cap guy). Things haven’t changed since 2010. Like a family, like a marriage. Don’t’ agree on everything right away, work through things. Tough decisions to make. Excited to work together.”
More PC
“This trade, draft capital rare opp to get this many picks. Tremendous support from ownership. Jody incredibly tuned in. Supported us, challenged us, demanded we were sure of what we were doing. Told John he’s back in his wheelhouse, Pete you’re back in your wheelhouse. She saw it in me too, team younger. Back to where we started. Youngest team ever to win SB.
Her support right through process. Historic for franchise. Capitalize make most of this. Kick butt in every aspect.”
[q] Russ wanted to be traded, or you? “I said a million times, I had no intention of moving on. Felt that way. The opp came available. Business opp. Chance to take a look, we did. Surprised how good a deal came to us. Not about blame or forcing issues. Everyone had to agree. Opened doors we didn’t existed.”
[q] RW told you he wouldn’t resign? “Impression there woulnd’t be a long term extension.”
[q] Relationship with RW? “Challenges and trials. Russ made it through. Love Russ. Went through so much together. Also brought us to point where we could talk about it. After conversations we could move. This result. Couldn’t have happen in fashion as it happened if we didn’t have those convos.”
[q] Why couldn’t repair? “It wasn’t about that. Russ open for another chance. Other athletes make that move. QBs, Baseball, NBA, intrigued him. A long discussion, a long time together. Both eye to eye. Extraordinary difficult to make happen. Have to work together, knowing might not go. Hung in there, made sense of it, benefit Russ and our club.”
[q] Why change? “I have all kinds of thoughts, you can ask Russ about that.”
[q] Draft capital now? “Enormous. Get the 9th pick and 40th, we’ll pick 8 times. Really big, majority of cap space effect with Russ’ contract (off) and capital with 4 picks in first 2.”
[q] Tied by Russ’ demands, stuck on Denver? “Long time from now to be able to discuss. Wouldn’t say hands tied, people calling, weren’t shopping him. Over time came together, just a couple teams that became considerations.”
[q] One playoff win since 2016, bearing on Russ wanting change? “No reason to speculate on it.”
[q] Lock the answer or other options? “Ton of faith in Drew, explore options. Change of scenery. Couple of my buddies trying to acquire him. Beat down by media. Excited guys to compete with him. Number of guys still available.”
[q] Not view rebuild? “Right back at it. Not a step backwards. Going forward. College lose every 4 years, USC all those QBs I had. Just keep marching. Approach, philosophy you’re solidly behind it, keep going.”
JS “2010 Todd Liewicke wanted us together with Pete as college players, acquiring young talent putting them together to compete.”
PC “Most competitive roster in NFL.”
[q] Wagner found out elsewhere? JS “That’s on me. I own that. It really is. I wish I would’ve handled things better from a communication standpoint. Awkward when player reps himself. Never know exactly what will happen. Approach about a possible trade. Timing standpoint wish handled better.
PC “On me too. I wanted Bobby with us. Looking how we don’t have to do this. Russ’ news went out, things hit the fan, we were supposed to meet with Bobby a copule days after that, it couldn’t happen. Hard deal.”
JS “Too much respect to have that happen. We did talk to him, just the timing.”
[q] How did it get out then? “You were talking about it in the media. Something happened with Bobby.”
JS “You rep yourself, talking to teams, agents, players. Buffer when you have an agent.”
[q] All or nothing, offer him less? “Not gonna get into that.”
[q] Another option besides playing out his contract? “No.”
[q] Schefter report you had spoken to Bobby? “yes.”
[q] Colin Kaep realistic? “Who knows? ”
[q] Deshaun Watson? “He’s under contract and has a no trade clause.” (Pete smirk)
[q] Win SB with Locke? “Go back to his rookie 4-1, he plays that way we can. Third down numbers terrific. Coordinator left after that, didn’t play to that level. Evaluated, he showed. John stayed with it. We think he’s still that guy. What we need is a point guard. Moves FB to guys open, manages game, how we win games. What we’re looking for. Take care of FB. RW extraordinary at it. Geno knows our offense the best. Come back to us, opp to run the whole thing. Bring Drew along. Competition no different than Flynn and RW. Jake Eason as well.”
[q] Noah Fant like? “Had his name down, it was that close. Big, young, rough time, lost mother right before season, nice job of competing. 68 balls, huge target, can run.”
[q] Barton? “Next guy up. Let the competition play out.”
[q] Dj Reed down to wire in negotiations? “Yes”
[q] QB market rookie deal vs expensive deal, play into deal? “Very good Q. Did play in to a certain extent at the end. Yes.”
[q] 2022 QB class not hightly regarded, QB at 9? “Never answer that Q! Why would you ask that?”
JS “Talented group of guys.”
[q] Burns? “Almost signed him two years ago. Talented kid, do all things we like him to do, Sean Desai did a great job.”
[q] Decided to trade RW what like? “Compared to Favre. Know how effect fans. We were able to prepare mentally much earlier than others. Know effect on fans. Shock. People didn’t know how talented AR was. Won SB.”
[q] RW didn’t want to be here? “I don’t know.”
[q] When impression true? “Tough to answer.”
[q] Won’t change philosophy, talented guy impact your phil? “Fit it off the uniqueness of our players. Within guidelines of what we think to make us successful. Transitioning players in key spots. Wide open for us. Only way to compete. Not gonna force the peg in the wrong hole.”
[q] What most excited for? “Winning freaking football games. A bunch of them. Last year kinda sucked. That one time. Everyone coming here well aware.”
JS “Your QB question, my mentor in GB we haven’t done a good job of, is haven’t picked QBs. He picked Brunell, Detmer, Brooks, had a number of guys became assets. I don’t know why but haven’t done that here. This class is a good class. Never know where you’re going to acquire these guys. Look at totality of the class.”
Geez Cha. How do you do that so fast?!
Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing
😉
Need a 2nd chance? Come to Seattle.
PC still believes in pull of the Seahawks’ culture.
We’re going to compete for a championship “right fricking now”, not down the road in the future. That’s not how we think.
I get the vibe that we’re starting Lock.
100% think lock is THE plan.
At least for this year. Makes a lot of sense for a team that has never been great at managing resources. Even if he balls out you’re still looking to reasonable money going forward if at a shorter contract.
Except at the end of the presser John admitted that they haven’t been keeping the QB pipeline full of up and comers. I was actually glad to hear him admit that.
Oh boy, we interrupt this press conference to offer incense to Jody…
Presser started- Rough notes
Pete opens on defensive with examples of giving players 2nd chances. Marshawn, Jamal Adams, Diggs, , Geno Smith, al woods…
Drew Lock is the next 2nd chance. Russell gets his second chance. Colin Kaepernick, asked to work out, called Pete. Pete says Kaep deserves a second shot, (doesn’t handle it very well, says he deserves a 2nd chance, here/there/somewhere in football or not.)
Players want to be a part of Seattle according to Pete… Pete is giving a pitch, it’s a good place to go, hard place to leave. Emphasize that they take care of guys.
Hard to let Bobby go. Awful, to do. But proud that so many guys stay in Seattle and in the culture.
Tough to square with recent comments from Bobby and Branden Jackson.
JS-
Miss Bobby and Russ, excited to move forward. Difficult decision, miss them personally and professionally. Recognize leaders in Quandre, Woods, Dissly, specially talks up Adams leadership (sure), and namechecks Cody Barton.
Trade with Russ was unique, historical, experience with Brett Favre trade help. George Patton was great, keep it tight, answer the needed questions. Guys incoming is exciting, really like Lock, Fant is a freak, Artie burns has Sean Desai connection, Owusu they loved coming out and Ivan Lewis knows him well and likes him. Austin Blythe is a good connection for the offense, Sidney Jones is coming back.
Excited what’s coming next. Trying to do deals, culture standpoints, things haven’t changed since 2010. Pete and John don’t always agree, sometimes see and eye.
Pete- Draft capital and next are rare opportunity, important to pick higher, tremendous support from Jody. She supported, challenged, forced them to account for the plan. Sees Pete and John back in their wheelhouse to be creative and be positive. Team will be younger, back to where we started. Design to being young, with her support, were able to function and pull it off.
Ha! Should have figured others would be doing this, thanks for the more detailed notes Cha!
This is hilarious! John clearly wants to get stuff off his chest about Russ but Pete wants to beat around the bush in his usual way.
Wow, JS owns up to not communicating Bobby’s release as he should have. Kudos to him for that.
Sorry Sea Mode, no kudos for John. He screwed up and yeah, took ownership of it, but it never should have happened to begin with.
Did you hear his explanation? With Bobby representing himself and the market moving so fast, it’s not as black and white as it sounds. I even think it was slightly generous from John to take the blame out of respect for Bobby.
Oooh, they absolutely rehearsed that answer to shut down any questions about interest in Watson. Clever way to avoid responding.
Josina’s been on the phone again, in case you didn’t know:
Oh woooow. They just revealed who they were so bummed about missing out on in 2019. It was Noah Fant.
Going to call BS. So they wouldn’t have traded back if he wasn’t picked in front of them in a year they prioritized D-line/pass rush? And then look deflated when Sweat came off the board. Not buying it.
Well, they literally said they had his name on the card, and then apparently were resigned to trade down once Denver “upset” them on the very last pick before them at 21.
It’s also possible there were two upsets back to back in that first round, which might have been why they showed up to the press conference looking and sounding like they did.
I just don’t recall TE being a top priority that year. They had just drafted Dissly and had an army already on the roster.
Maybe they wanted him for a big outside target and took DK instead?
Possible. He certainly wasn’t going to block anyone.
A think there were a few players — and it falling the way it did is what stunned them because they probably saw Plans A-D disappear
Well, we got a couple more tidbits than I was expecting, but we desperately need a presser with only John and no Pete.
It was the right thing to come together and answer questions. Maybe I’m just being naive here, but after the press conf I kind of regained sympathy for John.
It’s just that John can’t even finish saying what he wants to say (which to me is always quite genuine) without bubbly Pete butting in and dominating mic time for his own motivational sales pitch to Jody and the fans.
Exactly what I saw. Nothing has changed,Pete still pushing all the buttons. RAH RAH !!!
Right be the presser, I told my girlfriend it a was time to gather round’ the gaslight.
Absolutely putrid.
I’ll move on, won’t miss either of them. I’m curious if Cade Johnson gets more chances this year.
Sounds like Geno competing with Lock and a rookie. Hope they get their guy in the draft.
Geno is currently NOT a Seahawk.
Unless it was a smokescreen he soon will be again, unless he finds someone willing to pay more.
after the presser I’m guessing that whatever the plan at QB is it’s not about 2023, unless the shots they take this year don’t work out. QB at 9, trade down, trade up, or a guy like Coan later. We’re taking one in this draft and it might cost draft capital that would be useful in 2023.
I thought one of the most interesting points made was right at the end of the presser, when JS said that there was QB talent right through the draft, referencing the later rounds Russell Wilson and Tom Brady picks, perhaps implying that they may well not draft a QB with their first pick?
Anyone know what Sam Bradford is up to these days? If we’re going to die in our own vomit, may as well make it is as disgusting as possible.
#9 Jordan Davis DT game wreck for our new 3 4 defense. Ridder and best Oline or Linebacker available
@41 and 42
Random Seattle reporter: “How emotional of an experience has this been moving on from Russell Wilson.”
Jon Schneider: “Who is Russell Wilson?”
Or maybe…….”Russell Wilson? F Mark Rodgers!”.