Firstly, if you missed this earlier — be sure to listen to the Seahawkers Podcast below. I was invited on to talk about the combine:
The lasting memory of this combine will be — underwhelming, too many injuries and very few headline performances.
It highlighted the following:
1. The lack of legit first round prospects
2. The greater value in rounds 2-3 compared to round one
3. Confirmed this is a good draft for interior offensive linemen, running backs and linebackers (early) and not so much for cornerbacks, receivers or offensive tackles
The big positive was the athletic performance of the safety class which far exceeded expectations. We’ll start with a few thoughts on the defensive backs today…
Cornerbacks seriously underwhelm
This was one of the sloppiest group performances in recent memory. Numerous players had to stop and re-start certain drills. At one point Mike Mayock remarked:
“I think I’ve seen more guys get stopped in these drills than I’ve ever seen. Which is not a good thing.”
Iowa cornerback Joshua Jackson was stopped four times, including twice on one drill. It was a messy session with several players coasting or failing to execute.
Very few players impressed but Louisville’s Jaire Alexander was an exception. He excelled in the drills after running a 4.38. He doesn’t fit Seattle’s measurables at 5-10 and 196lbs with only 31 1/8 inch arms but he was the most impressive performer. Alabama’s Levi Wallace also had a strong outing but needs to add size at 6-0 and 179lbs.
Jackson coasted way too much and Mike Hughes was mostly unimpressive too. Both players have been touted as possible first round picks but there was very little evidence of that today. Denzel Ward ran well (4.32) but he had to at his size (5-10, 183lbs). Ward might be the only cornerback taken in round one and his stock might be limited due to his frame.
Safety’s put on a show
As disappointing as the cornerbacks were, the safety’s were the complete opposite. Many of the safety’s actually ran faster than the cornerbacks. The expectation was that this isn’t a particularly deep class at the position but on this evidence, there’ll be some intriguing options lasting into day three.
Stanford’s Justin Reid likely pushed his way into the first round conversation with his performance. Oklahoma State’s Trey Flowers is tall and lean (6-3, 202lbs) with great length (34 inch arms) and could be a possible cornerback conversion for the Seahawks. He ran in the 4.4’s.
Penn State’s Troy Akpe (6-1, 200lbs, +32 inch arms, 4.34, 41 inch vertical) and Terrell Edmunds (6-0, 217lbs, 33 inch arms, 4.47, 41.5 inch vertical, 11-2 broad) are worth a closer look in the coming days. Arizona’s Dane Cruikshank and Wisconsin’s Natrell Jamerson likewise warrant further study.
Derwin James did everything well in terms of testing and looked very smooth in transition and changing direction during the drills.
What did we learn about this draft class at the combine?
A normal draft class includes about 15-20 players graded in the first round. This year, that number could be lower. It’s possibly at about 10-15 but will vary from team to team.
It means the grade difference between a player drafted in the 20-30 range will be very similar to players taken in round two. This year, the best value is going to be found in rounds 2-3.
Rather than present a rare opportunity for the Seahawks to get a blue-chip player, at #18 they’re more likely to be just outside the zone where you’ll get true first round value.
What can we take away from this week for the Seahawks?
Pete Carroll reaffirmed his desire to improve the running game in a conversation with Mike Florio. Nothing about this combine suggests it won’t be Seattle’s #1 draft priority.
If (when?) the Seahawks trade down (possibly multiple times) they’re likely to address the running game first and foremost (RB, OL). That would be playing to the strength of the draft while addressing a key need.
With some appealing defensive talent likely to be available in rounds 3-7, they might be willing to wait to add to the defensive front seven and secondary.
Positon-by-position thoughts from the combine
Quarterback
Josh Allen showed off his exceptional arm talent and combined with his size and mobility, there’s a very good chance he and Saquon Barkley will be the first two players drafted. Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield and Lamar Jackson didn’t do anything to harm their chances of going in round one and while Sam Darnold chose not to throw, it’s unlikely teams will be overly concerned by that. All five players could go in the first frame but the depth beyond that isn’t particularly good.
Seahawks targets: Unless they really want to take a punt on developing Luke Falk, it seems like a draft where the Seahawks will again bypass the position.
Running back
The deepest and arguably strongest position in the class, this was a good combine for the position and the Seahawks as they will likely add at least one running back in April. Nick Chubb showed he’s back to his explosive best following his knee injury, Kerryon ‘underrated’ Johnson had a sensational performance and Derrius Guice tested better than many (including myself) expected. Rashaad Penny and Royce Freeman performed well. Bo Scarborough will be well worth a pick in the fourth round range, while John Kelly is a dynamic complimentary back with the capability of carrying the load on occasion. We could see eight backs leave the board in the top-75. The only disappointment was Ronald Jones II’s hamstring injury running the forty. Expect a big performance at the USC pro-day from Jamaal Charles 2.0.
Seahawks targets: Nick Chubb has every physical trait the Seahawks have looked for in a running back in the Pete Carroll era. They’ve consistently valued explosive athleticism and a particular size. Kerryon Johnson isn’t just an explosive runner, he set the tone for Auburn during their SEC Championship game run. John Kelly and Bo Scarborough could be options in the fourth or fifth round range. And although Ronald Jones II suffered an injury, he has a genuine ‘IT’ factor and has to be considered an option too. A quick final point on Chubb. He’s often described as the ‘north-south’ compliment to Sony Michel. Chubb ran a faster forty (4.52 vs 4.54) and the short shuttle times are similar too (4.25 vs 4.21). Do not underestimate the importance of explosive traits for Seattle running backs. Chubb’s 38.5 inch vertical and 10-8 broad plus Kerryon Johnson’s 40 inch vertical and 10-6 broad stand out. It feels like at least one if not two of Chubb, Johnson, Jones II, Scarborough and Kelly will be wearing navy blue next year.
Offensive line
It’s not a good offensive tackle class. We’ll likely see 2-3 go in the first round because of the importance of the position but we might not see a single tackle garnering consistent first round grades. Kolton Miller and Mike McGlinchey might be the two who make it. On the other hand, it’s an outstanding looking interior O-line class. Quenton Nelson, Will Hernandez, Austin Corbett, Braden Smith and Wyatt Teller all excelled during drills and all but Corbett had an explosive workout according to TEF. Billy Price, Isaiah Wynn and Frank Ragnow didn’t work out but they could join Nelson, Hernandez and Corbett in being taken before the end of round two.
Seahawks targets: It’s a little difficult to say given the change of O-line coach. However, they have a fantastic opportunity to add both a new ‘franchise’ running back and a top option at left guard in this class. Wynn, to me, compares favourably to Zack Martin. He’s that good. Will Hernandez had an exceptional workout. He’s 20lbs lighter and looked the best during the kick-slide and agility drills. Both Wynn and Hernandez could go between 25-35. If they take a running back first, Corbett is an option if they still want to draft a guard early. Smith had the most explosive O-line TEF test (3.52) since we started recording data and he had a strong career at Auburn.
Wide receiver
It’s been clear for some time that this isn’t a class with multiple first round receiver prospects. Calvin Ridley didn’t test well athletically but he looked very crisp during drills and he’s adept at route running and finding ways to get open consistently. He might be the only wide out taken on day one. After that, D.J. Moore, Courtland Sutton and D.J. Chark might follow. All three tested well at the combine, particularly Moore (4.42 forty, 39.5 inch vertical, 11-0 broad) and Chark (4.34 forty, 40 inch vertical, 10-9 broad). James Washington didn’t have a great combine but there’s been plenty of talk that he’ll find a home in the 25-40 range.
Seahawks targets: It feels like free agency might provide a solution here. They might need to replace the production of both Jimmy Graham in the red zone and Paul Richardson. John Schneider recently talked about how hard it is for college receivers to transition to the pro’s and make an impact. There are big-bodied wide outs that could appeal on day three including Auden Tate, Simmie Cobbs and Marcell Ateman but none tested well here and the Seahawks have consistently looked for receivers able to run a 4.4. Equanimeous St. Brown could be a possible target after he ran a 4.48. Smaller, more dynamic players like Keke Coutee, Anthony Miller and Dante Pettis could provide some value. Antonio Callaway is a character flag disaster but might be the most natural receiver in the class after Ridley. Javon Wims at Georgia is another mid or later round possibility and he has some size.
Tight end
Before the combine it was distinctly possible no tight ends would be drafted in the first two rounds. Mark Andrews, Dallas Goedert and Troy Fumagalli were all very overrated. Mike Gesicki’s performance likely means at least one will find a home in the first two rounds. He had one of the all-time great workouts for a tight end, managing a 4.54 forty, a 41.5 inch vertical and a 10-9 broad jump. He tested well in the three cone (6.76) and short shuttle too (4.10). And he did all this at 6-5 and 247lbs. The thing is, he isn’t a blocker. At all. So he’s a step below O.J. Howard and he isn’t the dynamic sprinter that Evan Engram was. So we’ll see if teams want to take what amounts to a big slot receiver in the top-40. Apart from Gesicki, it was a middling tight end display with only likely H-back/full back Jaylen Samuels providing any intrigue.
Seahawks targets: Let’s assume they aren’t going to spend a high pick on Gesicki. They spent three years trying to turn Jimmy Graham into the complete tight end. Are they really going to spend the next three trying to turn Gesicki into something he isn’t too? They might look to re-sign Luke Willson and add a blocking tight end in free agency. If not, there are three names to keep an eye on. Stanford’s Dalton Schultz, Notre Dame’s Durham Smythe and Washington’s Will Dissly didn’t pull up any trees in Indianapolis. However, all three were asked predominantly to block in college and all three had success in doing so. Schultz in particular opened up many lanes for Bryce Love. If they want to add a ‘Y’ tight end, these three are players to monitor. Unless, of course, they are completely enamoured with a 6-5, 247lbs freak of nature.
Defensive line
Sunday’s session was a mixed bag. Only two EDGE rushers ran an elite 1.5 10-yard split (Harold Landry & Josh Sweat), only four pass rushers ran a sub-7.00 three-cone and the main highlight in the agility testing was Sam Hubbard recording the sixth fastest time for a D-liner in the last 10 years (6.84). We saw fewer explosive testers this year too. There were some big stand out performances though. Taven Bryan was a big winner, performing well in TEF (3.58) while still managing an excellent 1.68 10-yard split and a 4.48 short shuttle. Josh Sweat might’ve propelled himself into the second round with an incredible running and jumping display. Harold Landry likely secured a place in round one too. Several players didn’t run or jump particularly well but performed well in the drills including Tim Settle and Derrick Nnadi. Da’Ron Payne isn’t an explosive defender (TEF: 2.89) but he’s extremely quick (1.67 10-yard).
Seahawks targets: Sweat might be out of range for them now and the options at SAM/LEO appear limited. However, there are a number of appealing later round options. We know the Seahawks like their interior linemen and inside/out rushers to perform well in the short shuttle and 10-yard split. We also know they haven’t drafted a D-liner with sub-33 inch arms. Jalyn Holmes, Kentavius Street and Breeland Speaks all showed great quickness over a short area while Andrew Brown, B.J. Hill, Nathan Shepherd and Foley Fatukasi performed well in the short shuttle. There are several explosive testers they might look at too, including Tyquan Lewis (TEF: 3.48), Chad Thomas (TEF: 3.06) and Da’Shawn Hand (TEF: 3.14). Shepherd, a small school prospect, excelled in the drills to follow up a strong Senior Bowl performance. Sadly, he has 32 inch arms. We’ll have to see if that matters.
Linebacker
The first round options are attractive but there might not be quite as much depth at the position as we first thought. Tremaine Edmunds will likely find a home in the top-12. Leighton Vander Esch could go in the top-20 after a sensational performance in the jumps (39.5 inch vertical, 10-4 broad), short shuttle (4.15) and three-cone (6.88). Roquan Smith and Lorenzo Carter carry injury flags according to Tony Pauline but both could still find a home in round one. It was felt Rashaan Evans needed a good combine to secure a first round slot but he passed on running. It’s unclear if Malik Jefferson did enough to secure a home in round two after a good but not great display. It was disappointing that Darius Leonard only managed one forty (4.70) and didn’t compete in any of the drills.
Seahawks targets: Seattle could use some youth and speed at linebacker but it was sadly lacking here. Only six players ran a sub-4.55 forty (Jerome Baker, Lorenzo Carter, Tremaine Edmunds, Shaquem Griffin, Malik Jefferson, Roquan Smith) and all but two of those players (Baker, Griffin) are likely to go in a palatable range. Griffin was the talk of the combine after his 4.38 forty and the Seahawks might be interested in pairing him with his twin brother. There is another test the Seahawks seem to value at linebacker and that’s the short shuttle (more detail here). There were several players who ran an excellent 4.2 shuttle — Matthew Thomas, Oren Burks, Micah Kiser, Christian Sam and Fred Warner. Thomas (41.5 inch vertical, 10-11 broad), Burks (39.5 inch vertical, 10-11 broad) and Warner (38.5 inch vertical, 9-11 broad) all had explosive workouts while Kiser tested much better than expected and was a crucial leader for Virginia in college. They could find a late round option or two within this bunch.
Cornerback
As noted above, it was an unimpressive group. The way the drills were executed today was awkward and messy, with several false starts. At one point Deion Sanders remarked: “We’re missing the energy givers, the guys who know, man, I am the guy. I’m not seeing that yet in the corners.” He was right. Usually the CB class is loaded with alpha’s. This was a shy and retiring bunch seemingly trying too hard not to make a mistake. Jaire Alexander was the standout performer in drills but unless teams want to reach, there are limited first round options here. Denzel Ward could be the only corner to go early. Tarvarus McFadden had a very difficult morning.
Seahawks options: I’m going to include Tre Flowers here. He worked out with the safety’s but ran a 4.45 at 6-3 and 202lbs. He has 34 inch arms. He just looked like a Seattle corner running through the drills. Very few of the cornerbacks impressed today but Holton Hill, Levi Wallace and Isaac Yiadom are three names that fit their size/length criteria. Auburn’s Carlton Davis might go a round or two too early. If they add a cornerback in the draft this year, it might be someone who wasn’t invited to the combine they spot on the pro-day trail.
Safety
It took until the final session but finally there was a bit of a buzz around a positional group. For once several players overachieved. Many of the forty times were faster than the cornerbacks and the drills were a lot smoother and well executed. Troy Akpe ran a 4.34, jumped a 41.5 inch vertical and looked really good in his transition and backpedal. Justin Reid is built like a tank and ran a 4.40. He could go in the first round. Minkah Fitzpatrick likely secured a place in the 8-15 range of the first round while Derwin James put on a show in the drills and the tests. You would imagine, based on this performance, he’ll go in the top-20.
Seahawks targets: The first name I’m going to mention tested with the linebackers — Clemson’s Dorian O’Daniel. He didn’t run well (4.61) but he did manage a really good short shuttle of 4.07. He’s been touted as a safety convert for some time at 6-0 and 223lbs. He could be a later round target they try to develop as a strong safety. Terrell Edmunds was fast and explosive and has the bloodlines, Dane Cruikshank had a terrific workout and Natrell Jamerson excelled too. Jessie Bates III could be an option in rounds 2-3. If they want to take a safety early the most likely options are Derwin James and Justin Reid.
Any post-combine predictions?
— Saquon Barkley & Josh Allen will be the top two picks in the draft. Perhaps Cleveland will trade with the Giants to secure both players?
— The Seahawks will trade down at least once and will draft a running back early. The options? I think it’ll be one of Nick Chubb, Kerryon Johnson or Ronald Jones II. Ideally they’ll be able to acquire one of Will Hernandez, Isaiah Wynn or Billy Price too.
— Vita Vea will be a Tampa Bay Buccaneer and if not, his floor is Washington at #13.
You can now support Seahawks Draft Blog via Patreon by clicking the tab below.
Rob, is Justin Reid SS or FS?
SS
Awesome summary and amazing coverage all weekend! Thanks Rob
Echo. Such great info and insight.
If the Hawks trade Earl then draft Reid and Griffin. Plus sign Eric Reid to play SS.
FS Justin Reid
SS Eric Reid
CB Griffin, Sherman
Slot Coleman
LB Wags, KJ, Coleman
That would be an incredibly fast unit Wow and you would have to think both sets of brothers would communicate well.
Fun idea but not sure how realistic.
Lb should have read Wags, KJ, Griffin
That’s exactly what want to happen I typed on the last thread Trevor nobody responded to that yet(SaaadFace) I got yo back. Hey does Canada use a 24hour clock?
Two set’s of Brother’s is really Love our Brother’s, Too cool!
Was also thinking when Shaquem and Shaquil get picks returned for touchdowns we can say……. Wait…….
Six points for Griffin(Lore)
Yes yes yes!
Cool idea, would certainly be historic to say the least!
That would be the fastest secondary in the league for sure. Sherm and KJ are the only guys who aren’t 4.4 guys and they are both long and smart.
The term LOB would have a whole new meaning, literally. (love our brothers)
I’ll take the Bosa, Gronk and Watt brothers while we’re at it.
Would give new meaning to the seahawks being a “brother hood”
That too, good to have you here Nic I’m glad Rob let you back. You’re a passionate fan and we all get upset sometimes. I understand
I think after today that James will be the top Safety off the board and likely goes in top 10. I thought his movement skills in the drills showed his completely over the injury. I would love to see him as a Seahawk but I don’t think there is any chance now.
How about Bennett and Earl + a 5th to Falcons for thier 1st and 2nd rounder. They are supposedly interested in both guys and already have a young D. Hate trading them inside NFC though.
I want At Least 2 first or equal value for Earl. It makes sense last year we turned down a first & a mid for Sherman. I think the Patriots would trade 2 1st for Earl in “flash” Same with Dallas. I think we’re currently deciding which offer for Earl & Bennett make sense! I think we can get a late 3 for Bennett his contract is cheap for the buyer! If Arizona trades with Cleveland for #1 if Clevland isn’t already after Earl they will be.
I was thinking of this last night.
Falcons get:
Bennett and pick #146 (pick #9 in the 5th round)
Seahawks get:
Pick #90 ( Atlanta’s 3rd rounder)
OR
Falcons get:
Bennett, pick #18 and #146
Seattle gets:
Pick #26 and #58 (Atlanta’s 2nd) and #126 (Atlanta’s 4th)
Interesting scenarios
If we are going to trade Bennett, it would be fantastic to be able to turn him into that kind of draft capital.
I hope they package a day three pick with Bennett to move into day two. Not sure that Bennett on his own is worth more than a day 3 pick, and we don’t need any more of those.
Can’t trade both of them to a conference rival. Bennett? Sure. But not Earl.
Pete’s comments about running back also suggest that they seek a RB who can stay on the field. I know Royce disappointed in the vertical, but he had an insanely good three cone, a strong broad jump, and a good 40. Did he miss a game in his college career?
I could interpret Pete’s comments as we have our RB team and Solari needs to take that talent & fix it! If we’re committed to moving out of round #1 that means were loosing our shot at Ronald Jones, Red Flag RB not going to be one of our 1st two picks.
Not necessarily true. RoJo could still be there early 2nd. We need to be ready for that possibility.
He might be but Seattle has a tendency to target players & trade back. Remember last year everyone expected 1st pick to be CB! If I’m Seattle I’m targeting DE &/or Guard 2nd round assuming we keep Earl. If we can’t find 2nd round DE we keep trading back till we hit our guard.
He was extremely durable. He also finished his career #1 in TD’s and #2 in rushing yards in Pac-12 history. I think he missed one game in 4 years (2 if you count the bowl game that he sat out for this year).
I think “extremely durable” is being a bit generous. I don’t know how many he missed aside from the two you mentioned, but he was knocked out of multiple games due to injury.
Freeman is very talented, no doubt, but he also benefited from consistently running against a thin box due to Oregon’s wide open offense
Missing one (full) game due to injury in 4 years is extremely durable to me. I’m not sure what constitutes durability to you.
I happen to really like Freeman, and think his durability was maybe his best trait. I’m not sure how good of a pro he’ll make. He has good vision, but he doesn’t really have any make-you-miss jukes or top end speed. He reminds me of Shaun Alexander in a lot of ways. I never thought Shaun really ran “hard” or made anyone miss, but he was usually healthy and at the end of the season had put up great numbers.
I still feel like pulling my hair out when everyone talks about (not that there isn’t any reason to) drafting a SS, especially us doing it high. I mean, did we not draft what looks to be like a good SS in the 3rd round last year? Delano Hill was out get from one of the best, deepest DB draft classes in modern memory. And yet we seem to be constantly overlooking him as the replacement for Kam, in favor of using one of our few picks this season on Derwin James or a SS in R2-4. #Yikes
I really hope we can trade back and still get the best guard from this trio: Hernandez/Wynn/Price. Then if they love Chubb or Freeman they can draft him with the second pick. If they love Bo or Penny or someone else, then we go RB in anywhere from R2-7. I just don’t like the idea of drafting say RoJo and then settling for a lesser guard like Teller (who I like!) later in the draft. I’m of the opinion that it’s better to have a 9 outta 10 OLinemen and a 7 outta 10 RB than it is to have the opposite. The OLinemen should not only improve the run game but should improve the pass game. Get us one of those three OG’s and then get us Chubb and a big back late in the draft like Darrel Williams, Malik Williams or Chris Warran III. I like that a LOT.
Positions I can see SEA targeting: LG, P, K, QB2, RB, WR, TE, DB.
Players I am thinking about for SEA:
TE: Dissly, Smythe, Jordan Akins,
LB/SS: Griffin!
WR: Tre’Quan Smith
RB: Chubb, Freeman, Penny, Bo Scarborough, Jaylen Samuels, Lavon Coleman, Chris Warren III, Malik Williams, Darrel Williams, Jaylen Samuels
OG: Hernandez, Wynn, Price, Wyatt Teller, Corbett?
Players in free agency I am interested in for SEA: Tyler Eifert (1 yr), Alfred Morris (1 yr), Terrelle Pryor (1 yr), Justin Pugh (https://twitter.com/ParkerLewisJR/status/964977366580609024), and Eric Reid or Bradley McDougald.
I agree on the SS part. Lets give Hill a shot if and when Kam doesnt play.
Agreed we invested in secondary last year. This team needs RB, OG and front 7
How can you be confident in Hill? I don’t think he even got a snap last year even after Kam got hurt. I have big hopes for him but he is far from being a lock to be a starting caliber SS.
Schneider brought up Hill at the combine and how highly they thought of him (and that they don’t draft DBs that high very often). I thought Hill played well on special teams last year. It’s not surprising that the team went to McDougald when Kam went down given how McDougald had filled in for Earl. Kam didn’t start his rookie year either. I can’t help but think that Hill was a huge huge miss on the Seahawks part if as a 3rd round DB he can’t start in year two after spending a year on the roster learning from Pete.
We don’t need to have confidence in him, so long as Pete does. And drafting him in the 3rd shows he is. Every player is an unknown until he gets a chance to prove himself. He could end up being terrible, but we need to see him on the field first. Point is, you don’t spend a 3rd round pick on a guy you are going to give up on after a year of special teams play and draft his replacement in an even earlier round.
Hill is the forgotten man. Pete hasn’t helped the narrative, I can’t remember him saying a word about hill since last training camp. Hopefully he can step up if Kam can’t come back. I’d personally rather get a RB and defensive front 7 player (Lorenzo Carter is my preferred choice) with our top two picks unless Hernandez is sitting there at a good value. Hernandez just looks like a guy that can push the pile and help us convert in crucial short yardage situations. Guys like Odiambo and Pocic (maybe ifedi if he gets kicked inside) “should” be better next year than any rookie OL we select after a tradeback. If they aren’t it shows how bad the OL talent evaluation and development has been the past years. I’d love a Guice and Lorenzo Carter draft but I’d be equally stoked on a Hernandez and Chubb draft. Then top it off with Griffin and a kicker (looks like there aren’t any good ones tho) The more likely route is they piss me off by trading earl then draft Corbett and Bates.
God I pity whatever sad sack franchise spends a top pick on Josh Allen. Dude couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn from the inside.
Really hope Cleveland fans don’t have to suffer through that all over again. Don’t put that evil on them.
I hadn’t really watched him until the Senior Bowl. He has a good arm. I’m leary of him because he came from a small school in a weaker conference.
As for Cleveland, I’m not sure any quarterback should have to play there unless they are getting a boat load of money. Can they put in a rule that teams only get to pick in the top 10 two years in a row? They need to find a way to curtail the perennial bottom feeders in the draft.
He was quite awful against decent competition. I watched him VS Oregon at home this season and he looked really bad. Had to look it up, but found this nugget:
The last two seasons against Nebraska, Iowa and Oregon, Allen was 48 for 96 for 427 yards, with one TD pass and eight interceptions.
Nice haha. I’ll never understand why people think guys can be trash against meh competition then somehow develop into a great player against way better competition. Because… traits? I’d love to see an example of a player that consistently played bad against lesser competition and good against great competition. Give me Jackson over Allen all day.
I guess you’re assuming his WRs had the physical ability and talent to consistently separate from NE, IA and OR defenders. And that his Oline was able to adequately block their D-line. Or his RBs could gain tough yards and pick up the blitz. I don’t know either, but there are a lot of factors that can have a major impact on his counting stats. His numbers weren’t as good, but not too incredibly different, from Roethlesbergers at Miami of Ohio.
If I was Dorsey right Brown’s GM
#1 Barkley
#4 Q. Nelson
Then give us all kinds of draft capital for our pick #18
With #18 draft Baker Mayfield.
Why him? Because he’s a major competitor and he hates loosing!
They need someone to go in and FIGHT!
Cleveland Fans deserve at least Hope.
I could see them moving up for Lamar Jackson like that actually.
Sure I would probably go with Lamar Jackson myself. I thought Mayfield because the Browns have been sadly pathetic for since the real Brown’s moved to Baltimore basically.
They need a Dick who Ain’t gonna take it anymore!!!
That was my thought, they need to get pissed (Not Drunk, sorry) angry and grab some crotches (their own) and do stuff!
Pretty sure Mayfield will be long gone by 18. Jackson should be too (he’s my third favorite QB this year after the LA boys), but old school NFL silliness could see him fall to 18. It would be ridiculous if the Browns got Barkley, Nelson, and Jackson.
Or they could draft Mayfield and he implodes like Manzel etc…
Ben Roethlisberger? 69.1 comp % 4486 yards 9.1 yards per attempt 37 touchdowns 10 picks
so he balled out the year before he was drafted.
Josh Allen: 56.3 comp % 1812 yards 6.7 yards per attempt 16 touchdowns 6 picks
so he didn’t ball out at all last year. At least he didn’t throw a ton of picks… I guess.
Obviously stats aren’t everything but that isn’t even close to close. I’d argue even incredibly different.
Who else sucked (statistically) playing in a weak division and went on to be good?
I suppose you also noticed Ben Roethlesberger achieved those stats in 495 attempts…almost TWICE the number attempts of Allen’s 270.
Yep. No wonder he threw almost twice the picks haha.
But comp % and yards per attempts aren’t impacted by the number of attempts. Bens td to int ratio also much better. Those are the ones that stood out for me. They prob would have put it in Allen’s hands more if he was a better qb but I’m sure the system he was in played a part.
I actually like him a lot.
It’d be hard for me to decide between him and Lamar Jackson.
He’s probably my third favored QB in this class.
But probably the best ‘face of the franchise’ guy outside of Saquon in the entire draft.
Josh Allen is so so so professional. Much moreso than Rosen or (HAH) Mayfield.
…. I really dislike Mayfield.
I reckon Mayfield is one of those guys who you love if he’s on your team and hate if he’s not. The Browns would be better off taking him than, say, Rosen IMO – even if he’s not quite as good a player.
Why?
Mayfield shows a clear lack of respect for the game, his opponents and the process throughout his time in college.
The only first round prospect that had to walk on twice.
Had nothing to do with talent.
What’s to respect?
He’s clearly a bit of a dick, but he’s a dick who likes winning.
Is Baker really a dick or is he just really serious about winning and he takes the psychological aspects a tid bit too far for some.
It’s easy just a matter of opinion. I really don’t know enough about him except when he grabbed his jock and then he did something in the center of the field at the opponent’s home stadium? Do we know what was said, I really don’t know. What did he do that you don’t like Kenny?
I’m not defending him or persecuting him, Just want some details
*Really not easy*
I am reading way into a lot of quotes and incidental things, but yeah
Miss me with the b***s*** he’s as much drama as he is ball
I’d be all in on Mayfield. He clearly has a chip on his shoulder, but teammates seem to love him. You know who’s a dick that opposing players hate? Take your pick from Brady, Rodgers, Rivers… You don’t have to be liked by opponents to be a good QB – you have to be respected by your team.
He likes to win. He’s good at it. The NFL is about winning.
As far as I’m concerned he’s deshaun watson with a bigger mouth.
I don’t see any major character concerns. I did stupid s*** in college too; I’m not about to fault a kid for that.
I was slamming him earlier for his inaccuracy, but he changed my mind at the combine. He made all the throws and on the money. Didn’t struggle with accuracy at all. Maybe it was just a good day, but he picked a hell of a time to have a good day.
Coaches and GMs have enormous egos. They’ll always look at a guy like Allen and think they can get ‘it’ out of him. Never mind that he’s never actually been good at football, think about how good he COULD be.
The thing with the Browns is that they really don’t need a prospect who could be the bestest most amazingest gunslinger of all time. They need an above average guy who can lead the locker room and take them back to respectability. Tanking in the NFL isn’t going to work like the NBA, you need too many players.
Ishmael, posted this the other day. Not sure if you missed it, didn’t want to elaborate, or are upset at me about the question I asked you awhile back that you didn’t respond to. That’s your peragative and yes you can do what you want to do. I won’t bring it up again unless you want to. I hold nothing against you.
Hey Ishmael hope all is well in New York for ya!
Will you elaborate on what you think is 20 years behind in the NFL on sports science, and why you think so?
I’m sincerely curious and I can tell you’re an intelligent and clever laddie!
Go Hawks
Sorry mate, completely missed it.
I’m sure it’s not the literal truth, it’s basically a throwaway line that gets tossed around by the sports science people I know in rugby and Australian football. The NFL, for all the things it does well, is incredibly resistant to change. Remember a few years ago when the Giants had the worst injury rate in the league and Tom Coughlin was saying he didn’t believe in sports science?
Thanks for the reply Ishmael! No I never heard that by Tom, I really only watch the Hawks I don’t watch Sports center or those type of all sports shoes.
So there is no Science behind Human bodies that are comprised of Elements, Matter, and molecules? To quote most if not all Vulcan’s “That’s Logical”
It’s obviously just an expression.
Speaking of Science. Sc-Fi network has the greatest show I just discovered. First two Seasons is also on Amazon Prime. 3rd season starts in April along with draft!
For me it’s the most amazing Brilliant series I’ve ever watched. You all must give it a chance!
“The Expanse” !!!!
The Expanse is fantastic space opera and they do a really good job on what can’t be a very large budget. It is in SyFi after all. The books are pretty fun as well. The show hews fairly close to the books but does some stuff differently as well.
Right on Captain. I’m actually going to start reading the books I love it so.
Now I done justs got’s to lerrnz to reed good!
For a guy who can’t hit the broadside of a barn- he hit every throw he needed to this weekend. For one weekend at least he was clearly the best QB on the field. Turns out it might be the weekend that really matters.
Yeah and Ivan drago was a sports scientists mad invention that could destroy anything he hit… til he got in the ring with Rocky Balboa.
(Sorry had to go Rocky analogy)
My quick impressions/bold predictions from today:
1. MJ Stewart will end up the best corner of this class, at least early on. He’s not super fast, but he’s quick and I bet the agility numbers will show it when they come in. Lots of PBUs that will turn into INTs with a bit of coaching at the next level; just needs to be taught to locate the ball a bit faster. Hands and body control outstanding.
2. Tre Flowers really does look the part and should definitely be on Seattle’s radar for a CB project. Chris Carson should have some inside info on him maybe?
3. Not sure about Levi Wallace; want to see his explosiveness and agility numbers first. That said, definitely a Seahawky backstory who just doesn’t take ‘no’ for an answer.
4. Brandon Facyson was the only other long CB I thought looked decent out there. Didn’t have any INTs since his freshman year, though. Yikes!
5. Cruikshank caught my eye as well in the drills. Don’t know anything about him, but glad to see you mentioned him. We have homework to do!
4. Tony Brown will be a Seahawk 100%. What a specimen! Beast with a ‘tude. ST demon from day 1. He’s gonna be in R5 of all my mocks from here on out. 🙂
MJ Stewart was just okay in the agility drills. If you want to see insane numbers on agility, looks at Jordan Thomas – 6.28 for the 3-cone drill, and a 3.94 (that is not a misprint) for the short shuttle.
Fantastic summary Rob. Pretty disappointing combine all things considered. Can see why PCJS traded for Brown and Richardson last year, they’re both better than anyone they could have picked up in the draft at their position.
This is partly a personal Al Davis-y obsession, but I think we need an injection of pace on both sides of the ball. Speed kills, and last year the Seahawks were plodding.
I think that is a most excellent observation. They definitely need some speed.
Favorite moment pf the combine?
Thanks for asking, definitely had to be Deion hugging speedy white boy Troy Apke after his 4.37 40 and asking how to pronounce his name. You know that kid was feeling himself
“He can really run for a.. You know”
My favourite moment was watching Shaquim put up 20 on the bench press while the whole room was cheering him on.
What a powerful, emotional moment for him and how he used something that would bring self pity to many while he used it as determination to become something massively Grand!
He’s special in all the good ways!
Here is that moment.
https://youtu.be/OXKKVVMTswY
Ugh. Deion Sanders is insufferable. He was a fantastic player obviously, but he’s been out of the game how long and he still feels the need to inject his ego into every situation. I actually like Prime a lot, I just get tired of his act as an analyst sometimes.
Gonna try to make a list of first round prospects.
Saquon Barkley, Bradley Chubb, Tremaine Edmunds, Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold, Quenton Nelson, Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen, Vita Vea, Roquan Smith, Rashaan Evans, Marcus Davenport, Leighton Vander Esch, Nick Chubb, Ronald Jones II, Derrius Guice, Isaiah Wynn, Billy Price, Connor Williams, Will Hernandez, Mike Gesicki.
I’m probably missing some but that’s 21.
Some have some medical red flags but they don’t seem to be Maurice Hurst serious. I Left Hurst out but he could be cleared too technically.
I hope Rob is with me on Guice now. 🙂
My #1 #Seahawks draft crush!
Any skepticism I had about Chubb has been dispelled. 80+% SPARQ athleticism. Would be a great pick for Seattle.
I am not I’m afraid Misfit74. For me he’s still overrated. Will likely go in round two I think but not convinced it’ll be to Seattle.
Guice is reported by some analysts today to be drafted 13~22 (FWIW) . If we don’t take him around 18 is isn’t happening.
Do you think Chubb’s medical history will affect his draft stock significantly despite his awesome athletic testing? Seems he’s trending towards round 1 himself, which might be bad for us.
I was pleased with testing by Freeman who I’ve always been a fan of and Scarborough, though made of glass it would seem, did excellent. Kelly is a fun player but maybe not a workhorse. Do you like Penny?
I think those analysts will be wrong. I don’t see him going in the 13-22 range at all.
Chubb said he received extremely positive feedback at the combine about his knee.
I like Penny but not as much as some of the others.
So, the “what should they do?” and “what will they do?” threads run together, but I’ve got a question specifically on the “what will they do?” side. (I’m truly not carrying the spear for Guice here; my “what should they do?” take is, wait on the position until the 3rd round and get a Freeman or Kelly type. Not here to fight that particular fight.)
Okay, but say they go RB early.
Guice at 5’10” 224 fits the Seahawks size-weight profile that you, Rob, have so perceptively gleaned over the years — he fits it far better than Ronald Jones does. And both of these guys (along with Chubb, esp I would expect post-combine) slot into a similar value plane in the draft world writ large — at this point, they’ll probably all cost a pick in the late first/early second neighborhood and could go off the board in any sequence.
When you forecast that Seattle will draft “one of Nick Chubb, Kerryon Johnson or Ronald Jones II,” is your personal conviction that Jones=Jamaal Charles and Guice!=Marshawn Lynch the sole reason for identifying the one guy clearly outside of the Seahawks archetype as a one of the likely targets? Have there been actual Seahawks draft clues (if not yet #Seahawksdraftclues) more specific than their general interest in ground and pound that would lead one to a belief that 12 Seahawks Way shares your conviction about Ronald Jones?
I asked Rob a similar question a few days back and (paraphrasing) his answer was: Seattle needs playmakers and RoJo is one of the best in the game.
I tend to side with you that he doesn’t “fit” what the Hawks have looked for in a RB. On the other hand, trying to predict what the Hawks will do in a draft (apart from trade down) has been a fools errand for me.
Nevertheless, I’ll play the what should/will they do game. I’m going to work off of the assumption that we let Jimmy and PRich go and get a 3rd and a 5th for comp picks. I think Joeckel gets us a 6th and we keep Sheldon. I’m not sure what that does to our cap, but we might be able to go after one or two FA signings. One should be Tyler Eifert on a 1 year prove it deal. Another could be a cheap LB. There are a lot of FA’s that it would be great to have, but cap and comp pick offset are serious considerations. We don’t have our 2nd rounder next year, so I wouldn’t want to sign anyone who might offset the presumed 3rd we’d get for Jimmy.
For the draft, if Vea is there at 18, I would probably take him. The catch 22 with someone that we like falling to us at 18 is that is the scenario where we could get the biggest haul for a team wanting to move up. Dallas would be all over Vea if he was there, so any other team who wanted him would be needing to trade with us to lock him down. If a QB falls, maybe we swing a deal with CLE, NE or PIT to jump in front of BUF, but DAL and DET would present the same opportunity at a presumably lower cost.
In any case, based on the board and needs, we of course trade down. I’m going to hope it’s to the Browns who took Barkley and B. Chubb, or NE who wants to get their QB of the future. We’d get either 2.33 & 2.64 from CLE or 1.31 & 2.63 (along those lines anyway). Maybe swapping some late rounders, etc.
I would then take the best OL we could with the first of those picks. Trade back up with our second pick from the first deal and our 2019 3rd (Jimmy) round comp pick if a RB we really like is there. If there isn’t one, I’d trade back again and get a 2nd next year and a 3rd for this year. Take a guy like Royce Freeman or Shaquem Griffin. Use the 4th on the other need, and take a flyer on Josh Adams late.
I would just like to see us get a good OL, Shaquem (becasue he’s awesome) and get back to not having this dearth of draft picks for next year.
Vea will be long, long gone by #18.
To me, it’s kind of like saying ‘Quenton Nelson would be a good pick at #18’.
#7 to Tampa Bay seems like a lock. If not, he won’t get past Washington at #13.
I don’t know Rob. I wouldn’t say he’ll be long gone, and certainly not a lock to TB at #7. They could take Minkah Fitzpatrick, Bradley Chubb, Denzel Ward, Derwin James. The Browns, Broncos and Jets all need a QB, and Barkley will go top 4. That’s only two other players taken before WAS picks. Quentin Nelson will probably be one, which leaves all of those guys above as options. That’s IF no one from outside the top 5 (MIA, ARI, etc.) tries to trade up for a QB as well.
Rosen/Mayfield/Lamar/Allen/Darnold, Saquon, Quentin, B Chubb, Ward, Fitzpatrick, Derwin, Edmunds, Roquan Smith, McGlinchy, Connor Willliams, a WR (Ridley or Sutton), Davenport…
There’s 18 names that COULD go before Vea. I highly doubt it, but you never know. My point was he’s one of the only guys who could last that long that I would take instead of trading down.
We’ll see. Vea is one of the top eight players in the draft. He’s an absolute no brainer for the top 10.
As much as Guice fits in terms of size he wasn’t particularly explosive so that’s why I’m not focusing on him as much as Chubb and Johnson. I will say too, Guice compares much more to Thomas Rawls than Marshawn Lynch IMO.
I think Ronald Jones II is the type of talent that makes size somewhat of a moot point (in the way they also loved Russell Wilson despite being 5-10). Jones II is special. He is a Jamaal Charles clone. And he’s not a mile off their size ideal. He said he’ll be 210 at the USC pro-day which puts him in their ball park.
Moot- subject to debate, dispute, or uncertainty, and typically not admitting of a final decision.
Cheers Rob for expanding us Yankees ( I mean Mariners) vocabularies!
Go Proper English
Fair take, thank you for the answer.
I don’t see it. I really don’t.
He’s Rawls 2.0.
I for one would be extremely disappointed in that pick.
He doesn’t even break my top 6 or 7 running backs in this draft class.
Guice is legit. Even runs a 4.4 despite being a limited athlete supposedly. I like him and Chubb almost equal.
Well, he ran a 4.49. I’ll admit that was faster than I expected but he only had a 31.5 inch vertical.
Guice doesn’t make my list at all, and it’s not even close. I would be slightly disappointed with him.
Well, he’s not really the type to hurdle guys so I’m not too worried about his vertical (which was fine). I want him to get north and south not up and down. It’s not like he tested like Alex Colins (who you and me liked and the hawks drafted).
Pete wants someone that can set the tone and get some of his own yards and that’s what Guice brings. He fits our physical criteria and he has the style and punishing mind set that we like from our runners. Rawls 2.0 sounds great as long as it’s the good Rawls we saw before his ankle got snapped.
Guice kinda got punked by Alabama but so did big bad Leonard Fournette (28.5 inch vertical) when he was at LSU. It’s ok if you don’t like him but he’s a really good back (most draft analysts have him as rb 2 or 3 in this stacked class) and I wouldn’t be surprised or upset if we drafted him after a tradeback (tradebacks?) from 18.
The vertical jump isn’t about hurdling guys in fairness. Along with the broad jump it’s a perfect judgement on how explosive a player is. And the Seahawks have valued explosive traits at RB more than any other feature.
well in fairness it isn’t a perfect judgement on how explosive a player is because it doesn’t factor in the weight of the person jumping. I know why they test the vertical and that it isn’t to see if they can hurdle dudes haha. I think he jumped fine is what I was saying. I also think its a ways down on what matters. Would you say that Leonard Fournette isn’t an explosive runner because he only jumped 28.5 inches?
C Mike was really explosive and we drafted him and he turned out to be not great. Alex Collins was not very explosive at all and we drafted him and he turned out to be not great for us (pretty good for the ravens tho). I’m not convinced they will scratch a rb off their board because they ‘only’ jumped 30+ inches. I agree the hawks value the jumps for RB’s but we have drafted rbs with all kinds of testing numbers but they have stuck to drafting guys with similar size.
Vertical and broad jump are the established tests along with the powerball to determine explosive athleticism.
And Guice’s peers jumped more at a similar weight.
Yes, they are, and they don’t account for weight so they aren’t perfect… Fournette didn’t jump higher (Guice’s peer). He’s also a little heavier. He’s also an awesome running back despite jumping under 30 inches. Some of Guice’s peers jumped higher and some didn’t…you just don’t like him and thats fine.
appreciate your replies but sometimes seems like your not always reading more than the first sentence of my comments, but i’m a little long winded.
Great new mock draft.
I read everything. I just don’t agree.
Bench is the established test to determine upper body strength. my point? none
Not really sure what or why you’re debating this. Everyone knows the importance of the explosive tests for RB’s in seattle and what the explosive tests are.
lol ok man I’ll stop. I hope your not getting upset. As a fan of your for many years its a bit of a bummer you are being so dismissive. I’m not debating that the explosive tests aren’t important to seattle’s evaluation of running backs.
“I agree the hawks value the jumps for RB’s” – me
I was responding to the statements “perfect judgement on how explosive a player is” and “the Seahawks have valued explosive traits at RB more than any other feature.” I think its super useful but imperfect (like all the tests are in some way). I also don’t know if the hawks value the jumps (explosive tests) over every other feature. My example was that size has been a bigger predictor of who we might draft than the jumps have been.
we agree for the most part i’m just nit picking, you nit picked my 4.4 comment and hurdle comment so I think its fair. keep up the great content.
Any chance we go after BJ hill? 6’4 315, impressed in drills.
I like Hill as well. Maybe one of the 5th rounders?
Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) Tweeted:
From @NFLTotalAccess: The #Seahawks are likely to lose TE Jimmy Graham to free agency, are keeping S Earl Thomas for 2018 and beyond and are trying to move Michael Bennett.
6:05 PM Mar 5, 2018
i am not happy to just wave graham goodbye
I really want to keep sheldon though
I know the “insiders” probably all have “sources” but just a few days ago (from Jason La Canfora) the talk was Earl would be dealt. Who the F knows?
I have no doubt JS was serious about all things are on the table. I’m really curious to see if the Hawks sign a FA strong safety (McDougald, E. Reid) or go into the season with Hill & Thompson & let them fight it out.
Thing is none of these rumors are far fetched and extremely plausible, so they are not even really inside info
Agree this is a a very obvious case of throwing everything against the wall and seeing if it sticks. Three big names, a team in flux, some prediction is bound to be right.
Rapoport is THE source for the nfl though. Stoked we are keeping Earl. Hopefully we can get a 3rd for Bennett but that’s probably wishful thinking.
Rapoport might work for the NFL Network but he’s not always the most reliable source to be fair.
He throws out a lot of “might” s and “maybe” s but it doesn’t seem like he is flat out wrong much. Seahawks “Are keepin Earl Thomas for 2018” and “firmly in their plans for 2018” sounds definitive to me. We can drop the trade earl talk now or you guys can keep pretending it might happen even though it won’t. It didn’t make sense to trade him unless we got a ton back in return. Like sherm last year, they gauged his trade value and determined he’s worth more to our team than to other teams. Hopefully he doesn’t tear his Achilles like sherm did.
Just looked up times he was wrong. He has been dead wrong a few times haha.
There’s always still a maybe even if the Hawks say he’s in their plans. He has one year left and said he will hold out without a new contract. What if they can’t come to terms? What if he decides he doesn’t want to be in Seattle anymore? Both of those options would probably lead to a trade.
yeah I think they would look to trade him again if they can’t come to terms on a contract and he doesn’t report to camp.
Mike Salk was on ESPN 710 last week laughing at Rapoport and calling him out for being wrong so often. Not often you hear a radio host do that. But IR does have a bit of a strange reputation among his peers.
If we can get good picks for Bennett & Lane we should have a phenominal draft. I think it could be part of Schneiders process even if he is dead set on trading Earl to wait till after free agency period before revealing his hand. Trey Flowers to CB looks like a future star
When Russell was in talks for an extension, JLC reported the two sides were far apart and not anywhere close. The very next day, he reported they had agreed to an extension. No offense to JLC, but he seems to be hit or miss. He has been dead on with some of the draft analysis (I believe he pegged the Ifedi pick beforehand) but wildly off base with other reports. Although to be fair, Rap has had his fair share of blunders as well. But this one feels legit. I never thought they would trade Earl. I just don’t think teams are willing to give up the kind of capital he is worth. And he is probably the Seahawks 2nd best (and most valuable) player. They aren’t going to just give him away. My guess is team’s offered at most 1st rounder, but that was not enough. But of course that is purely speculative.
I read his tweet as, “Seahawks feeling out an extension, so not exploring trades.’ Makes sense, similar to not franchising S. Richardson while working on a new contract.
Still believe everything/everyone is on the table.
it reads ” The #Seahawks are likely to lose TE Jimmy Graham to free agency, are keeping S Earl Thomas for 2018 and beyond and are trying to move Michael Bennett.”
so they don’t think they can keep Jimmy, they are keeping earl and they are trying to trade Bennett. at least according to Rapsheet
moses trade for a third, with a five added to the trade. That is a good trade for the falcons to make.
Qb-JT Barrett (undrafted FA only), otherwise continue with Austin Davis
Rb- Nick Chubb, Kerryon Johnson, Bo Scarborough, John Kelly, Sony Michel (some combination of these)
Wr- Marquise Lee, Cameron Meredith, Jordan Matthews
Te- Sefarian Jenkins, Will Dissley, Luke Willson, Durham Smythe (give me 2)
O line- Winn, Hernandez, Justin Pugh
D Line- Dion Jordan, Marcus Smith, Derrick Nnadi, Da’Shawn Hand
Lb- Shaq Griffin, Josey Jewell
Cb- Levi Wallace, Issac Yiadom
S- Bates III, Eric Reid, Bradley McDougled
K- Chandler Catanzaro, Cairo Santos
P- JK Scott
If by some miracle, we end up with some combination of Winn/Hernandez/Price and Chubb/KJ/Michel, I will be elated.
I recently did some research on 2017 kicker stats. I know many here aren’t as into stats like I am, however, for kickers, stats are the end all, be all of performance monitoring. I have found that there are several place kickers & punters in the coming draft that are likely to be drafted or signed as Round 5/6/7 or UDFA’s. IMO-Both place kicker and punter NEED to be addressed either in this draft or by signing free agent JAG’s that are available ’cause they ain’t very good. So, the Seahawks probably need to get their guys from the draft pool. Here is the place kicker that I think the Seahawks MAY invest one of their 7-th round picks for -or- at a minimum they MAY hope to sign him as a Priority UDFA. It’s important to keep in mind that IF the Seahawks get both a punter and a place kicker in the draft & they work out, that’s 4-years of low cost kickers – saving Cap space big time. IMO-Both kicker positions are NEEDS that must be upgraded this year.
–PK-Griffin Oakes, Indiana, Projected round-7/UDFA. (**IMO-the best option at Place kicker**)
2017: 16 of 17 on field goals, (94.1%) with a long of 51-yds. 38 for 39 on extra points, (97.4%) -NOTE: both of these misses were blocks. 1 for 2 at 50+, Oakes was 2-nd in FBS in field goal %, in 2017 he was a perfect 15 for 15 inside 50, including 4 for 4 from 40-49-yds. CAREER: 147 for 154, 95.5% on extra points & 69 for 90, 76.7% on field goals. For comparison here are the players that will likely go before Oakes in the draft due mostly to reputation and/or hype by the “experts”.
–PK-Eddie Pineiro, 17/18/94.4%-2/2 of 50+, long of 50-yds.-field goals, 24/26/97.8%-extra points
–PK-Michael Badgley,17/23/73.9%-1/4 of 50+, long of 50-yds.-field goals, 45/46/97.8%-extra points
–PK-Daniel Carlson, 23/31/73.9%-4/8 over 50 yds., long of 54-yds-field goals, 57/57/100%-extra points.
–Punters that may be of interest to the Seahawks in Rd-7/UDFA range: (Ryan costs how much again?)
P-Trevor Daniel, 2017= 47.5-yds avg., long of 72-yds. Projected UDFA (**IMO-the best option at Punter**)
P-Johnny Townsend, 2017= 47.5-yds., avg., long of 70-yds, Projected Rd-7/UDFA
P-Michael Dickson (Ray Guy award winner) 2017= 47.4-yd avg., long of 76-yds, Projected Rd-5/6/7.
NOTE: P- J. K. Scott from Alabama (a lot of people like), was #83 in FBS with 43.0-avg, with a long of 64.
I think we draft both K & P
Rob, as far as CBs are concerned, I was impressed with Holton Hall of Texas. He was smooth and athletic in drills and is tall and long. He ran a forty just a few ticks faster than Richard Sherman at his combine.
He’s my late round lock! I have looked and looked and could not find for the life of me Why he was suspended for the final three games of the season.
He was on pace to have a very good year all’s rouns for a corner back in the mood of a Seattle db.
With the salary cap now set at $177.2 million and with the Seahawks only having 46 players on the roster they have about $12.5 million in cap space. You add the remaining 5 players (to get to 51) at an average of 500k per player and we have about $10 million in cap space as of now. Its getting about time to start trading/releasing some boys to get some back. If they tagged Richardson right now they would be in the red.
Ok… can someone explain to me why Soni Michel looked so much more impressive/effective in the National Championship Game than Chubb? I want to like Chubb, but I can’t get that out of my head.
6×2, I feel the same way. The way I saw it was one had better field vision, saw cracks, small as they were, and was able to exploit them for positive gains. Chubb either didn’t see them as well, or couldn’t exploit them. Either way, I saw things in that game that made me like Michel better. When the holes are nonexistent, he has a better chance of turning that into positive yardage. And considering the Seattle line, that’s something I want on my team. Curt Warner used to have the same gift back in the day.
+1
Personally I think it’s a mistake to draw too strong of a conclusion from a single game, it’s too easy to get drawn into a narrative that isn’t completely true. I prefer to watch several games of a player’s cut ups so I can just watch them in isolation and judge them on their observable traits. Just one way to watch of course.
I think Chubb is much better prepared to be a traditional NFL RB. He shows good decision making to take what is available, can hit a crease hard, shows incredible burst and flexibility for a big back, and can truck defenders. Michel is more elusive and probably more likely to hit a home run. I would say from what I saw more of his production came from big holes and getting the ball in space. I like them both, and think both can be good pros. But Chubb, if he stays healthy, has a chance to rival be one of the best backs in the league. Dude is a freak.
This is a foolish argument to make. People, they were used in two very different ways. They ran Chubb up the middle. Not easy against that front. They got Michel on the edges, into the passing game, he had SPACE. The coaches dictated what each guy was doing. I wish someone would go back and chart the game, (I have a life, so I won’t). He had zero chance to shine. Chubb is the more complete back. Period. End of story.
Chubb got met in the backfield for the majority of his runs. North-South runner and that’s not going to work too well vs Alabama’s front 7. Michel had a couple nice runs to the outside and out of the backfield; essentially running away from the defense.
Michel also had a bunch of good runs up the gut into the heart of that defense, not monster gains, but 4, 5, 6 yards while Chubb was getting stoned.
I think Michel is the most overrated rb in this class. He made some big plays on outside runs in college but its much harder to do that in the NFL. He didnt show much potential as an early down inside runner in college imo and his combine (combined with sparq for now cause he didnt do the explosion drills) has done nothing to help him. 4.54 is not a “change of pace back” 40.
The comparisons to Alvin Kamara are way way of base.
Alabama sold out to stop the interior run because Georgia was starting a true freshman QB. Georgia came out throwing eight consecutive times to try and open up the run but couldn’t do it. Michel had a couple of long runs that inflated his stats and there’s no doubt that he’s better at getting to the outside, turning the corner and making gains.
Too much is made of that one game IMO.
Also, and this is getting way too “coachy” of me, but when Chubb is in the game the Bama defense knew it was a handful of run plays, and could key from guard to guard, occupying those gaps and even cheating someone up from the secondary, (Minkah). Dead in the water. Michel, the way they use him, could have been running wide, running a wheel route, etc. Superior game planning by Bama gave Chubb zero chance to break free.
And if he’s so limited, why would it be different if he was a Hawk?
Anybody have a round projection for Troy Apke? To be honest, I havent heard his name mentioned to this point. Maybe there’s a reason for that 🤔. Also, by the way some draft experts talked about Minkah, I though he would test better!
I watched several of his games tonight. He takes some bad angles and can be beat. But the dude is an absolute missile. That 4.3 speed shows up on film. He’s a pretty good open tackler if he takes the right angle, and put on some big hits. Very interesting as a developmental FS project.
The hitting reminded me a lot of Kam, except he runs a 4.35 instead of a 4.69.
That kid is a workout warrior who didn’t show up big in games. The play doesn’t match the workouts.
Late round/UDFA. Highest maybe a 6th after the combine. He is a former sprinter, which explains the speed. The athleticism is awesome, but from what I understand, he doesn’t impress all that much on tape. Definitely worth a flyer in the late rounds though.
A normal draft class includes about 32 players graded in the first round, otherwise the person doing the grading in a normal class is using abnormal criteria.
Huh???
No JC, teams don’t give out 32 first round grades, 32 second round grades etc.
They will often give out a small number of first round grades. Every single year players with second round grades are drafted in round one.
Just because a player goes in the first round doesn’t mean they had a first round grade on the board. But what are you going to do? It’s not like you can’t just pick. A trade down might not be possible. And some teams will be quite happy to draft a vital position of need in the 20’s, even if the player is graded squarely in R2.
Pete has said in the past that winning the division is the first priority well we are in a division where we will play Todd gurley twice and David Johnson twice I think we may need to stuffing the run better we need linebackers I see it as a big question mark who is playing Sam and more depth at the DL does anyone else agree. Rob what are your thoughts on the linebacker core in this draft
We need to acquire picks first Bennett & Lane should get us 2 mid round picks good for LB’s & RB’s & TE.
Lane has doesn’t have any trade value.
We would be lucky to get a 4th rounder for Bennett. And that even feels like a pipe dream.
Some high picks, then a gap, then some depth at the end at LB.
Seattle will find a way to stop the run. They’ve done it very well for years filling in guys like Tony McDaniel. They need some LB depth and some DL options but they’ll be fine.
Rob what do you think of the Vanderbilt LB? I think your dead on regarding Trey Flowers?
I’m struggling to find tape on Oren Burks
Looking for explosive athletes particularly on the DL and LB, I value the 10-yard split, but other than Rob, I am finding it difficult to get the numbers from the usual sources. What is holding these numbers back? It seems a basic measure, as is the 20, but it seems increasingly difficult to find the results. Any clues from the community?
You pretty much have to watch the coverage. I noted all the 10-yard splits for the DL in our live blog coverage. But the NFL Network didn’t show 10-yard splits for the LB’s, DB’s etc.
Toni Softli was on the 950 KJR broadcast with Ian Furness on 3/5/18 around 1300 hours.
He had some interesting takes on the QBs in the draft. His background was personnel in the NFL…
He thought one of the great stories of the last 5+ years was Griffin at the combine. The draft range now late 3rd / mid 4th round now according to Softli.
He had glowing remarks about Vita Vea. Pretty much said he is the next “great” one.
He also mentioned he disliked that Lamar Jackson didn’t participate in WR drills…. because he wanted to see him do things he has never done and see how he adapts. Called it a job interview. Rates him as a 3/4th round talent… but he will get over drafted.
He was very impressed with the precision and touch of Mayfield was outstanding in his drills. He also loved the energy and command he brought to the huddle at the senior bowl and on game tape.
He also thought the RB Barkley put on an absolute show at the combine. One of the great performances in at least 10 years. Thinks his upside is very high, possibly the best talent in the draft.
I applaud Lamar Jackson’s choice. Bright kid. His choice is either draft me as a QB or move on. And why not? He’s been a QB for over half a decade and playing it at a very high level. Why allow someone to derail your career by putting you in a position you are unfamiliar with and be assigned to the practice squad while you learn your new position (if you’re lucky enough not to be cut). He can make millions more riding the pine with a clipboard in his hand as a backup QB than he could as the 3rd, 4th, or 5th option at WR. Hell, he could probably make more money as a backup QB than as a starting WR. And the thing is, there’s every chance that he’s better than a backup QB.
Agreed. Why should Lamar Jackson do drills for a position he has never played to prove nothing. I’m sorry for belong this point but Lamar Jackson may take a season or two, or could even be sooner but is at least as solid as the 30 backups in the league that keep collecting paychecks…..not 32 because you never know when Nick foles or keenum are going to shine.
so stop for softli or fitness to feel that way.
Couldn’t agree more. I absolutely LOVED that he didn’t run the 40, basically telling everyone that he isn’t just an athletic pawn, he is a legit QB. I’m sorry, I can’t get on board with the whole “job interview” thing. If I showed up to an interview for a job that I know I am both good at and qualified for and the potential employer wanted to interview me for a completely different job that I thought was a bad fit AND is less money, I would tell them thanks, but no thanks.
I think getting a good pick for Lane will be critical to acquiring Griffith.
Rob did Derwin James performance at the combine change your opinion on him at all?
I think it is a moot point as he is a lock to go in top 10 now but I was just curious on your thoughts as I thought he had the best DB performance in drills and tests since Jalen Ramsey.
No not at all. Always knew he was a very good athlete. Always felt he was going to go in the top-25.
I think there’s very little chance he goes in the top-10. Eric Reid had a very similar workout and went at #18. I still think he’ll go between 15-25.
Appreciate the feedback. If we did not need to fix the run game so badly he would make a great Seahawk but clearly fixing the OL and run game once and for all is priority #1 this off season. From everything Pete has said and the hiring of Schotenhiemer and Solari it all points to Guard and RB early.
Hawks have not had a transaction in 2 months and 2 days wow. Feels like the calm before the storm but I am anxious for them to get started now to see how things will shake out before the draft.
I came away from the combine really hoping the Hawks figure out a way to get 4 players
#1 Derwin James – probability less than 10% because he is likely a top 10 pick but wow would he ever be a nice player to build LOB 2.0 around.
#2 Will Hernandez- probability 50% +. Seems like a match made in heaven. I prefer Wynn’s incredible consistency and ability to play LT but wow Hernandez looked great. I have always been a big fan but he was much more athletic than I expected. Would love to see him and Brown steam rolling guys on the left side of our OL next year. If Pete wants to fix the run game next year I can’t think of a guy who could have a bigger impact. Rumor has it the Broncos hired his college head coach as thier OL coach and really want him. Hope JS can make this pick happen.
#3 Nathan Sheppard- probability 10% or less. I won’t go on about my Canadian guy anymore but he was really impressive to say the least and is really building some buzz. Unfortunately he is a lock to be a day #2 pick now and has slightly less than 33″ arms. So likely not an option for the Hawks which really sucks. I predict he goes between picks 50-60 to some lucky team.
#4 Shaqueem Griffin- probability 40% +. He has been talked about enough but wow what a show and would love to see him in a Hawks uni. If he is there when we pick in Rd #4 I think he is a lock to go to Hawks unfortunately I think he could go before then now which would really suck.
I wish Sheppard had ever so slightly longer arms. Love that guys motor. He would probably take a bit of time to really ramp up to the nfl since he’s still so green.
Rob, where is Tim Settle now on your board and where he will go? 1st round or no?
Still entirely possible. Perhaps not quite as high as previously expected but he’s extremely talented. Top-45 for sure.
Rob,
Obviously trading down and gaining picks in the meaty section of the draft is preferred scenario #1. Barring that, is there a top 10-15 player that could potentially fall to 18, through quirks of the draft and lots of QBs going early, that you would be screaming for the Hawks to stay put and draft no matter what?
“Obviously trading down and gaining picks in the meaty section of the draft is preferred scenario #1. Barring that, is there a top 10-15 player that could potentially fall to 18”
Not even sure then. The thing is, in this draft there isn’t that big a talent separation between last half of the first round, and the second rounders. Even if someone fell, I think you still trade down into the sweet spot of this draft, rounds 2 and 3, with more draft capital.
I’m with you, I see the line of demarcation much higher than normal. I don’t see anybody lasting past 7-8 that the Hawks would be better off grabbing over gathering more picks.
I agree. In the past, I have been frustrated with how frequently we trade down, but this year I am all for it. I think we absolutely have to trade down at least once, if not multiple times. I would be on board for a scenario like last year where we trade back twice to the end of Rd1 / Early Rd2. Maybe walk away with 2 day 2 picks on top of that, that would be fantastic. My dream scenario is to do this, get 2 day 2 picks, draft Hernandez or Winn in the early 30s, then use one of the day 2 picks we get (let’s say, early 3rd) to get Chubb or Kerryon Johnson. If that happens and then we can somehow still get Shaquem in the 4th, I would be PUMPED!
None I can think of.
I don’t see it either. I’d rather draft a LT to play guard, Safety to play CB, Elephant DE, a 1 handed LB, and a bunch of mid late round picks.
Will Hernandez is the anti-Seahawks draft pick. He excelled at his position on college. He physically manhandles people. He was a first-team all American and dominated players at much better schools with higher star ratings. He doesn’t have to transition to any other position. He’s plug and play for a decade. This is the type of player we need, but the type of guy we avoid at all costs.
Seems like it, doesn’t it. It feels like for nearly a decade we have avoided drafting O-linemen who have shown in college they have the skills and techniques to play – plug-and-play guys. Instead, we have concentrated on projects with a ton to learn, but the physical explosion attributes we coveted, while claiming the plug-and-play guys aren’t athletic enough for the NFL.
It hasn’t worked out well for us. Our O-line has sunk steadily into a disgrace while those plug-and-play guys we passed on are now stalwarts in the league. I’m hoping that all changes now. I have nothing against TEF if you’re using it to decide between a group of players who have demonstrated they already have the skills they’ll need and are closely matched in that regard and in their on-field performance. Then let TEF break the tie and take the more athletic and explosive player. But as the prime criteria it has proven to be folly.
Among other annoying things I see on Seahawks fan boards is the notion that the Seahawks avoid experienced college offensive linemen.
Okung, Carpenter, Moffit, Britt, Ifedi, Glowinski, Odhiambo and Pocic are their highest picks spent on linemen and all were long term starters at high profile colleges.
They move them around, switch positions with a ton of them. Tackle to guard, center to guard, tackle to guard, then to center. Okung is one of the few who stuck at his original position. Glowinski is just terrible and was a clear TEF pick.
I cringe when I hear guys talked about being drafted because they are so “versatile.” Look, it just doesn’t happen *that* often that you quickly need to shift a guy from, say, right tackle to left guard due to an injury on the line. Just pick the best right tackle and keep him there. Versatility concerns should be at the bottom of the list unless you are talking about a swing tackle or a third or fourth interior OL who might be pressed into emergency duty.
A lot of teams and players have to move from tackle to guard. And picking Britt where they did we probably too high.
and you may not be one of them but last year every other person on the blog post draft day told me up and down how great picks was going to be because he want exciting but he was a “great hedge,” for all the spots on the line and mostly that assuaged my concerns u til I saw I real time that he couldn’t block. ….it just a strange narrstive.
People bag on robs tef numbers like he’s I been front office even though he’s doing everyone a solid with the research. Then they draft a sub tef scoring player in pocic and he’s supposed to be just a good player…..
Maybe it’s really hard to draft a good olinemen and honestly with the line and the capital spent maybe time cable really wasn’t that good of a coach?
Lots of player move from tackle to guard when they hit the pros. And from guard to center and center to guard. Happens on every team. Our OL picks have struggled, but the narrative that it’s because we hate experienced linemen is a straw man not based at all on reality. We aren’t going to get better if we are placing the blame on the wrong strategy. We’ve sucked either because we’ve drafted sucky players, or ffailed to coach them correctly.
I’m being salty but I’m not going to be surprised when it’s coaching……
Listen just because you pick the one of the top two rated true left tackles out of a power five conference as your first pick when starting a new regime and then. Follow that up by spending more draft capital on olinemen all but one from a power five conference and you trade a second and a third mid season for a “real” caliber left tackle……is completely negated by carrying sokoli for a season and for actually converting a dlinemen one time into a serviceable guard.
McGruff, you’re practically proving my point. Yes, Okung proved he had the skills on the field, and so did Pocic. I’m okay with those picks. Now lets look at some of the others.
Carpenter and Ifedi were both drafted as tackles in round 1. Both were huge, bull strong human beings with great measureables. However, if you watched film on them, it was evident neither had what it would take to play tackle in the NFL. Both never played pass plays with their hands in the dirt, because they weren’t fast enough to get from a 3 point stance in time to stop a speed rush. If you play runs from a 3-point stance but have to be in an up position for pass plays, it’s a tell to the defense.
Britt struggled in college with higher quality ends and spent two years floundering for a position with the Hawks before finally finding a home at center. Pretty disappointing for a guy drafted to be your right tackle.
Odhiambo we picked in the top 100 though he had never played a complete season in college, picking up injuries cutting his season short every year. He had a 6-7th round grade from the combine, and that looks pretty accurate from what he’s shown.
Moffit had the pedigree and showed the skills in college, but somehow we failed to discover that his heart wasn’t really all in on football.
Glowinski gets a pass from me. He was a 4th rounder drafted based on great TEF numbers, and if you’re going to take a flyer on someone and hope to fix their game with coaching, the 4th round or later is fine by me on that.
I thought Carp and Ifedi had a shot at tackle. Carp was outstanding at T for Alabama. No real harm that he ended up as a solid guard.
Watch Alabama film again. Never played with his hand on the ground on pass downs, and with really quick ends, he consistently got a lot of TE help. His footwork was a mess. There no doubt he was incredibly strong and had a nasty attitude. An amazing run blocker. But on passing downs, he was never going to be able to keep up on the outside. He just wasn’t nimble enough.
I watched plenty thanks Mark. I stand by my observation.
Yup that’s how we roll.
Absolutely. I would take Will Hernandez and not look back, and I felt that way before the combine. I can’t beleibe how many good things he does on the football field. He acts like he’s the man, even when playing Texas or TAMU. He punishes those guys, and he seems to enjoy it. That attitude rubs off on people. He and Brown could do some damage.
I really feel like they need to make that happen with hernandez. I’m going in order:
Hernandez
Wynn
Ragnow……right guard but if for some reason they move on from Britt in the next off season he’s a great center prospect and I very much enjoyed his tape.
Braden Smith. I think fans are sort of sleeping on him and though he’s bigger than a projected solar pick I think he has the athleticism that so!ari would like.
I agree, his combine solidified that for me.
Rob it’s been asked in nits and pieces and you’ve sort of alluded to it throughout the weekend but moving forward regardless of free agency post combine, what player or players are you most excited to do some research on? Actually this could go for anyone really.
Did anyone’s opinions change about a player? (For me Kerryon Johnson I am going to watch all his tape….I don’t see him as a first rounder but certainly a second rounder)
there’s a few well built lb’s, Avery out of Memphis and Okoronkwo that are in that 250 range but had some nice explosion testing. I groaned and whined she they signed Wilshire and garvin(?) Last year and turns out they were as exactly average as I thought.
I never really thought of hernandez but with reports of Seattle speaking to him plus the testing plus solari leaning towards a big left guard the signs seem in line.
Id like to watch a bunch of Scarborough games and figure out what might have been going on. and Chris Warren. Not sure if he’s want to convert to fullback but that size…and Seattle really needs to get back to having one.
Equanimeous St. Brown
Fred Warner
Oren Burks
Tre Flowers
Fred Warner is another lb I’m curious about. And your ideas about tre flowers and being a possible cb candidate.
I watched Fred Warner a bit pre-combine and was not really impressed. Solid, smart player, but not special at all to my eyes and the athleticism did not show in my opinion.
I totally had st. Brown as an afterthought but he had significantly better production when Notre dame had a serviceable passing game.
Years in I do wonder if the big receiver is more of a myth than reality……Seattle keeps going after projects but no one ever sticks. You can see they are hoping but something is not clicking yet….
6’5 and 4.4 speed just forces you to take notice
Even if his name hadnt already drawn some eyes, it sure did for me. I mean Equanimeous!
Definitely an intruguing prospect for the seahawks
Forced to take notice? How about this kid at the combine, anyone notice him?
WR-Marquis Valdes-Scantling, South Florida, 6-040/206, 32-1/4″-arms, 10″-hands,
Ran a ***4.37-official 40***, 15-reps, 30.5″-vert, 10′-4″-broad.
2017 production: 53/879/16.6-ypc/6-TD’s.
Sounds & looks a lot like Moore last year, sign as an UDFA and stash to further develop.
We drafted Moore
Johnson and Guide. I’d already come to terms with the possibility that Johnson looked boring because Auburn is boring. Maybe the same could be said for LSU.
Some of the athletic but unheralded d3fensive backs like Apke and Brown and others.
Still have to look at some of the later round athletic linebackers outside of Griffin.
BJ Hill is a guy I really want to watch more of. His drill work was super impressive.
Josh Allen likes the 49ers and Tom Brady 🌵🌵🌵
Leon Jacobs (LB) 6’3″ 248..tackling machine..runs a 4.48 40 (2nd best amongst linebackers)..26 reps on the bench press.
Might be a nice addition to the Hawks LB crew…
Since now the rumors are that we are keeping Earl, I’m hoping Derwin James falls to 18. Unlikely, but pair him with Earl for the next 3-4 years and the LOB is back with new blood.
But then what happens to our run game? How do we address our needs at Sam or leo with no more picks till round 4? Does Delano Hill ever get a chance to compete for a spot? what if we can bring in Mcdougald or Eric Reid do they not get to compete now?
He seems to be the most popular “he could last and id be happy sticking at 18 for him” guy on the blog rn. But Id honestly be so uncomfortable with it, too many good players to miss out on so we can slightly upgrade ss (whilst still having it be a weaker spot than when kam played there).
Agree.
Keeping ET and/or drafting a safety does nothing to fix the run game.
Trading ET and/or passing on safety might allow the Seahawks to draft OG (Hernandez / B. Smith) and RB (K. Johnson / Chubb). Need at least a few picks in the top 100.
Watch: They draft Davenport.
I agree, lets give Delano Hill a shot at SS.
+1 besides if we draft Tre Flowers for CB we can use him as a back up SS
There’s a bit of a gauge for the veteran RB market…
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
1 hour ago
The #Bills are signing RB Chris Ivory to a 2-year deal worth $5.5M base, source said. He gets $3.25M guaranteed in the first year and it can be worth $6M max.
I didn’t realize how many Seahawks fans were OL gurus until they got Tom Cable fired
They must have been right all along.
FINALLY SEATTLE LISTENED TO YOU GUYS.
I just wish one of these armchair OL gurus would swallow their pride and accept the lowly position of our OL coach.
Then we might actually get somewhere.
Hopefully Solari knows half what seahawks fans do.
What a surprise that would be.