Thoughts on the STL-WASH trade

March 10th, 2012 | Written by Rob Staton

Robert Griffin III - future Redskins quarterback

The Washington Redskins have won the Robert Griffin III sweepstakes, striking a deal with St. Louis for the #2 overall pick. The trade can’t be ratified until the new league year starts next Tuesday, but it appears RGIII will be playing in the NFC East. The price? Potentially as much as three first round picks, including Washington’s #6 overall pick this year. A heavy price, and people now see why Seattle never had any realistic chance of moving up for the Baylor quarterback.

Cleveland essentially rejected the chance to draft Robert Griffin III, because they always had the upper hand in trade talks. Not only do they pick before Washington this year, but their bounty of two first rounders in this year’s draft was always the joker in the pack. Time will tell if that was a wise move or not, but the thought of turning to Matt Flynn instead of RGIII is cringe-worthy for the fans in Cleveland. That’s a franchise that has needed a superstar for a long time now. While Griffin III was no guarantee, he would’ve provided a spark for a city still reeling from Lebron James’ departure.

So what direction do the Browns go in the draft? There are three obvious candidates at #4 now – Justin Blackmon, Morris Claiborne and Trent Richardson. It’s worth noting that Pat Shurmur was at the Oklahoma State pro-day yesterday. Could Cleveland target both Blackmon and Brandon Weeden? It’s a possibility, although it’s unclear what round the Browns would target Weeden. Richardson is good enough to go #4 overall but his off-season has been stalled after minor knee surgery and let’s not forget – even Adrian Peterson didn’t go that early.

St. Louis will now pick 6th overall. They could find themselves in a situation where Blackmon is taken 4th overall and Claiborne 5th overall by Tampa Bay. What then? Do they take Trent Richardson? Do they draft a defensive tackle such as Dontari Poe or Michael Brockers? Could they realistically move down the board again, accumulating further picks? Although the Rams came away with a treasure chest in this trade with Washington, you have to believe they would’ve preferred the #4 pick in a big way.

And what about Ryan Tannehill? In recent weeks he’s become the popular choice to go #6 overall to Washington. Personally, I wouldn’t draft him in round one. The idea of having him go so early was purely down to Mike Shanahan and the way he grades quarterbacks. Now what? He’s unlikely to be drafted by Cleveland at #4, but could he reunite with Mike Sherman in Miami should the Dolphins miss out on Peyton Manning? And if Miami doesn’t draft Tannehill, what then?

Does this trade impact the Seahawks? A lot of people will start to project the Texas A&M quarterback to Seattle – a scenario that would be stunning in my eyes. The Seahawks focus remains pass rush and that will likely remain that case right up until April 26th. Manning’s eventual destination will impact a lot, because if he joins Miami or Kansas City – they’d be more likely to go offensive line with their first pick to protect that investment. If Manning moves to Denver, then the Dolphins could go Tannehill. Either way – it’s another team out of the running for Upshaw, Coples or Ingram. It could also increase the chances of Trent Richardson being a nice wild-card option for Seattle.

Possible top-12 picks post trade

#1 IND – Andrew Luck
#2 WAS – Robert Griffin III
#3 MIN - Matt Kalil
#4 CLE – Justin Blackmon
#5 TB – Morris Claiborne
#6 STL – Dontari Poe
#7 JAC – Melvin Ingram
#8 MIA – Ryan Tannehill
#9 CAR - Michael Brockers
#10 BUF – Quinton Coples
#11 KC – Trent Richardson
#12 SEA – Courtney Upshaw

90 Responses to “Thoughts on the STL-WASH trade”

  1. thebroski says:

    Poe at #6 seems so high. If the top five picks were to fall that way, I think St. Louis will do their best to trade down. If they don’t have a trade partner, I think they take Richardson.

  2. Ciaran H says:

    Great move by the Rams, they must be delighted to get this deal done before FA and the likes of Flynn and Manning find a new home (thinning the teams needing a QB). 3 1st rounders and change to move down four spots and still have the 6 this year is unbelievable. On a complete side note, when looking at the amount that was needed move up four spots, does anyone else think there might be a slight change in the way losing NFL teams approach the end of the season? I’ve always agreed that no team ever “packs it in”, but if you’re one of three four-win teams with two games to go, and the difference between winning and losing your next few games could be the difference between drafting an RGIII or giving up a bounty like that, the new wage structure really lends itself to calculated losing.

  3. D says:

    See, this is what it looks like when a FO panicks. If PCJS would have made the very same trade from teh 12th spot I would be facepalming so hard now they would have to surgically remove my hand from my face.

    Insanely loopsided trade, good for the Rams, they need it.

  4. woofu says:

    Publicly Shurmur was as impressed with Tannehill as much as RG3. Holmgren could still land Flynn in FA AND Tannehill at #4, . Now who panics?

    Miami may need to move quickly one way or another. Without Manning there is only one star left on the screen to fill seats (shhhhh TBow).

    PC/JS probably suspected something like this would present itself and if they could get Manning, that would quiet the “hey WTF crowd”. If they don’t get him that crowd could then say “hey they tried”. Now on with the show.

  5. kevin mullen says:

    WASH paid a lot, but it was probably the right move. They were starving for a franchise QB as CLE too, now they can move forward on that front for the next 4yrs or so and see if it worked out. If RG3 is anything like Vick was to ATL in his first few years, I think the investment will be well worth it.

    I think CLE can probably wait til their second 1st rounder or maybe their 2nd round pick to get Tennehill, why rush to get this guy when no one else will? If he’s a reach for the ‘Hawks at #12, who else would target Tennehill in the first 21 picks?

    Im sure Shurmer has done a lot of research, probably bookmarked this site as one of his favorites :) , and they’ll see that they would probably only competing with themselves in round one.

  6. Phil says:

    Just promise me the Seahawks don’t go after Grossman or Beck.

  7. Kyle says:

    This is good news in the short term for the Seahawks, but bad news in the long term.

    Nice analysis, Rob, on the fallout of the draft this year, after the RGIII trade and after Manning’s potential landing. Seattle is likely to get their pass-rusher, or might possibly see Richardson fall to them.

    St. Louis will be a dangerous team, though, and combined with the 49ers resurgence and signs of life in Arizona, will narrow the margin for error in Seattle. The Raiders and Lions were bad for a decade, and even though a monkey throwing at a dartboard would have bettered Matt Millen’s and Al Davis’s draft records, their draft bounty allowed them to accumulate enough talent to be very dangerous in their respective divisions. Jeff Fisher underachieved in Tennessee, but he has been a good talent scout and should stock that team well. This is the equivalent of St. Louis drafting like a bad team for another half decade, without the dysfunction and fallout that accompanies badness.

    I would be indifferent, because good teams find ways to win, except that the model that the Seahawks use–stop the run on D, establish the run on O–is never going to blow teams out of the water, so the likelihood of a couple of upsets a year is high, higher when playing a team with a lot of talent. And as Seattle is not fully built, it will be stocking the cupboard with half the ammunition, and lower-caliber bullets, than the Rams each year.

    I just don’t feel good about this.

  8. dave crockett says:

    CLE is still in the driver’s seat, to some degree, on 2nd tier QBs.

    A) As you mentioned, they may sign Flynn, which isn’t a ridiculous notion given his roots in the WCO. Hasselbeck isn’t a perfect comparison, but it’s not way off either.

    B) I doubt Miami will end up with Tannehill. If not, CLE could still draft him at the bottom of the first round.

    As for WAS, I have been an RGIII fan since his freshman year. I love the guy, but Jeezus Washington! They are going to have a tough time putting talent around that kid.

  9. James says:

    The RGIII trade was outstanding for the Redskins. Despite all our talk about the QB’s, the position is still undervalued. Without a franchise QB, in today’s game, you can forget it, and RGIII is a worthy bet to be a franchise QB. Of those two future #1 picks, odds are one will be a bust, so how much are they really giving up? John & Pete have to do their greatest scouting job ever this year, or they will be fired in a couple of seasons, mainly for lack of a franchise QB. Andy Dalton fell into their laps last year, and they weren’t flexible enough in their thinking to accept the gift, instead sticking to the “plan” to build the OL first. My guess is they will roll the dice and take Osweiler in round two, since he has the most upside due to his physical skills. My choice would be to take the DE in round one, probably Perry since he is the ideal Leo, and trade up, using their 2 and 3, into the late first to take Osweiler. Those are the two critical needs and the only other real needs, at LB, can be found in the later rounds.

  10. Jeff says:

    Rob – I think you reported that the Seahawks were discussing a trade with a possible Manning suitor which would bring Seattle a QB. I forget the specific language, but my impression was it would be a big deal. Tebow?

  11. Billbo says:

    Well, this really changes the Manning landscape. Let’s hope he goes to MIA or DEN if he doesn’t come to Seattle. Potential ramifications of each:

    Manning to MIA:
    1)Flynn probably goes to CLE and there are no real QB needy teams in front of Seattle, except perhaps KC. Seattle could have their choice of QBs in the 2nd-3rd rounds.

    2)CLE isn’t interested in Flynn, so he comes here on a reasonable deal due to limited interest from the market.

    Manning to Denver: (this is where it could get interesting)
    1)Tebow gets traded to MIA and Flynn goes to CLE. At this point, SEA could potentially have their choice of QBs in the 2nd round.

    2)Tebow gets traded to JAX. This makes Gabbert available and at a potentially low cost to Seattle. I know that would cause a lot of consternation amongst SEA fans, but SEA was said to have him very high on their board last year and he could succeed with talent around him – which he didn’t have enough of in JAX. (Is this the domino theory?)

    Manning to AZ:
    We all cry and die a little inside…

  12. Rich says:

    I’d be a bit surprised if the Rams went defensive line. I have a friend who’s a big Rams fan and If I’m not mistaken I believe that they already have a lot of cap space tied up in the defensive line.

    Stephen Jackson isn’t getting any younger. I wonder if Richardson really is the choice for them?

  13. TJ says:

    It will be interesting to see how all of this effects Seattle for next year. The Colts and Redskins will be out of the QB market, no matter what, in the 2013 draft – even if their records are as bad as they were this year. If Miami lands Manning and Cleveland signs Flynn, they presumably would be out of the QB market too, at least early in the 2013 draft. With many of the so-called weak teams having drafted QBs high this year or last, next year’s top QBs could fall, simply because of a lack of need. At some point after the draft, assuming Seattle doesn’t draft Tannehill, it would be interesting to see some analysis on which teams are still QB-needy. The idea of Barkely (or next year’s Newton/Griffen III-come-out-of-nowhere-QB) falling out of the top-10 isn’t that far-fetched.

  14. James says:

    Billbo is right that there is a good chance that Cleveland and Miami will fill their QB needs with a combination of Manning, Flynn (or Tannehill). This would leave no other team ahead of Seattle, who would have their pick of Osweiler, Cousins, Weeden, etc, in round two. In fact, if Manning goes to Miami and Flynn to Cleveland, then Tannehil could also fall to the Hawks in round two. No need to trade up. Then, it will be up to John and Pete to find the gem. Pete’s preference for physical dominance in a player points to Osweiler.

  15. YDB says:

    Well, looks like the Rams will have quite a bit of talent accumulated when it comes time to pull up stakes and ship the franchise to Los Angeles.

  16. James says:

    John says he wants a QB who can “tilt the room.” I wonder if a 6’7″ rifle-arm QB who is a good enough athlete to have been offered a college basketball scholarship by Gonzaga fits the bill? The scouting reports on Osweiler’s intangibles are good… a hard worker, team leader and captain, so will John and Pete believe he has the right mental make-up and decision-making?

  17. Misfit74 says:

    KC isn’t drafting Richardson – or any RB in round 1.

  18. peter says:

    I think this trade now makes it necessary for coaches to get back to coaching. Washington sets this absurd precedent wherein you now need to move mountains to move up four spots at least for a QB at least one who is ranked so highly.

    I think Barkeley is amazing but I would be so upset if the FO gave up this many picks to move up and get him next year. Hopefully they set about with a real QB competition this year say Osweiler and Wilson and just have at it….

    How many times have pundits said that “Bradford needs some weapons?” Or any Qb who is perceived to be talented but falling short of perception?

    If this doesn’t work for Washington what happens when they need to get RGIII some pieces like.. I don’t know some cosnsistently dangerous WR’s or maybe two TE’s that put up more then 59 catches and don’t have drug problems, what’s the game plan for them when they next drafts roll around and they mortgaged their future?

    In rambling summation I would love to see JS/PC find a qb or two this year and have all 3( or 4) of them go at for the best one. Because if this move becomes a water mark in the NFL a 7-9 (us) team could really screw our whole team over by chasing down one player using this many picks.

  19. Michael L Erkson says:

    If the first 5 picks play out this way I don’t see why the Rams would pass on Trent Richardson. I understand the projection of Poe, but think that Richardson is a better pick, a no-brainer in this scenario.

    This would be a perfect time to replace Steven Jackson. Jackson is servicable, however has an injury history, also will turn 29 in July. Richardson would be an ideal pick for the Rams in this scenario, one that would intimidate me, as a devoted Seahawks fan, in regards to facing St. Louis moving forward.

    Currently when I think St. Louis I worry about the development of Sam Bradford into an elite qb, but regard Jackson as close to done. I do not want to think about a Bradford/Richardson loaded Rams, and so if I were St. Louis this is exactly what I would shove in the Seahawks’ faces twice a yr.

  20. Dave says:

    I wouldn’t put it passed st. Louis to draft Richardson just to keep him out of our hands.

  21. Misfit74 says:

    Peter – WAS has cap room to land a few FAs, such as Vincent Jackson. They have a good pass-catching TE in Fred Davis. They also have a young Hankerson, Helu and not young but experienced Santana Moss. They should be ok on offense.

  22. Stuart says:

    If Osweiler does fall to us in the 2nd round, would the Hawks draft him? Personally I would in a heartbeat. My favorite comparison was the ‘Big Ben’ one. Imagine that…It would feel so good knowing we already have our QBOTF! When you think all it takes is a 2nd, how can you not take that chance?

  23. Jarhead says:

    Washington plays in arguably the best pass rushing division in the NFL. They have really done it. Vincent Jackson is NOT going to go play with a rookie QB in a ZBS running game with a bunch of roll outs. Look at the offense he came from, he is not going to Washington. I don’t think any big name talent is going to Washington. Maybe Brandon Lloyd is the best they can manage. They will be awful for the next 4 years… That brings me to my point. With WAS being awful, it will be like St. Louis is gift wrapped top 10 picks for the next 2 years. That’s trade ammo, that’s an extra shot at the #1 rated player at several positions, that’s getting to add (with their own regular sched pick) the top rated OT and still nabbing the top CB potentially. We will feel the impact of this deal an quickly, mark my words. Remember, 2 years ago STL and the Hawks had the same record. So with weapons and some defensive help, STL is going to give us fits. Especially if we roll with T Jack and Cousins next year, when Osweiler was there in the 2nd. I’m all in for Barkley, but wow this sets an awful precedent. Especially with teams like JAX, MIN, TEN, and OAK all realizing the huge blunders they made in their QB’s and see they need big time help immediately. All of whom I can see likely drafting ahead of us next year

  24. [...] this morning Rob shared his thoughts on the RG3 trade to Washington, and how it could impact the rest of the draft.  Be sure to check that out if you [...]

  25. AlaskaHawk says:

    Flynn could end up in Denver instead of Cleveland. Denver has a bigger need.

    As for next year, when you consider that a good QB might last 10 years on average – then at least 3 other teams will need a QB next year. So we will be in competition again.

    As long as we keep picking linemen for our first round – we will be lacking in other skill positions. What happens when we do pick a QB next year. Who will he throw to? We haven’t picked a first round WR in forever, and the only second rounder (Tate) is not a game changer. No running backs in first two rounds, no wide receivers.

    The whole idea of fixing the line first sounds good in theory, but suffers when you have no skilled players in other positions. I can’t say Tevaris is elite, Marshawn is, Baldwin is, and our defensive secondary is. The rest of the team plays okay.

    I’m kind of rambling – so I’ll close with – I’m horrified that Washington traded three first rounders and a second for Griffin. But I wish them the best! I hope it turns out for them.

    Also – if we were picking Blackmon at #12 then there would have been a bunch of opinions that he is overrated. He has good hands and runs good routes, but that isn’t enough to make him a #4.

  26. Rich says:

    Speaking of talent at the skill positions, is there anyone who wouldn’t want to give up our no 1 pick this year for restricted free agent Mike Wallace (Steelers)? I think it’s doubtful he’d come to Seattle but I’d probably make that deal if he would. At the very least we wouldn’t have to worry about Browner covering him anymore.

  27. Ryan says:

    Sometimes you just have to do what Washington did to get you quarterback.

    My first guess about starting-caliber QBs in next year’s draft would be 3-4 (Barkley, Thomas, Wilson, maybe Jones). How many teams might need a QB? Raiders, Chiefs, maybe Browns, maybe Jaguars, maybe Bills, maybe Dolphins, Seahawks, maybe Cardinals, maybe Vikings. That’s a lot of teams for just 3-4, most of whom will draft before us. Most likely scenario is that we’re put into a similar position of having to either trade the farm for one, or go yet another year without one (which seems disastrous). We might have to make the Redskins decision next year, and I have no faith that PCJS will put their system aside and go big. I fear long-term mediocrity right now.

  28. Jim Q. says:

    If RGIII is worth that haul of draft picks, I think Keith Price’s value in next years draft just went waaaaaay uuuuup – big time. Remember a certain bowl game in December?

  29. Belgaron says:

    4. CLE Blackmon 5. TB Claiborne 6. STL Floyd 7. JAC Ingram 8. MIA Reiff 9. CAR Poe 10. BUF Cox 11. KC DeCastro

  30. Stuart says:

    Belaron, if this is the case, are you in for drafting Richardson?

  31. Stuart says:

    I meant to type Belgaron, appologizes.

  32. Ben2 says:

    KC could draft Richardson right ahead of us; who would have thought they’d take Tyson Jackson #3 overall a couple years ago anyway? I like the idea of Osweiler falling to us in the 2nd – there’s just something eye-catching about his size, mobility and arm strength. PC/JS might be planning on an all-in approach to QB in next years draft and if that’s the case, they might see using this years #2 on a QB as wasted capital. Teams like GB can afford to do things like that…they have more depth.

  33. Ben2 says:

    I like your point Ryan – and the more I thought about your point the more I like Osweiler in Rd2…I wouldn’t even be sad if the hawks had t jump a few spots to insure getting him.

  34. Belgaron says:

    With or without Super Mario, I’d be tempted to go Coples but I’d probably be too tempted to go Richardson. It would be within character for the Seahawks to try to turn an area of weakness (sacks) into an area of strength. Mario and Coples are virtually identically physically and they are from the same part of the country. Coples could learn a lot from Mario and this would strike pulpable fear in opponents, especially when combined with the run-stuffers and DBs that are already in place.

    2nd and 3rd rounds you could add two outside linebackers, Brown and Irvin to groom to bookend the defense with prototypical size+speed. Brown should drop there because he is considered a bit of a project without the instincts that would have put him over the top in ratings. Irvin would make a better strong side OLB than he was used in college, he is strong with good instincts and some speed to cover TEs.

  35. Doug says:

    Rob,
    I see that no matter what, you go with Upshaw. Since you value him so highly, don’t you think that you should start mocking him to a few of the teams ahead of us? Isn’t that a little more realistic, than to always have Coples and Ingram going ahead of him so he magicly falls to us in every scenario you present? … Just sayin’…

    Wash as usual gives up the farm for one player… theur poor fans will be so disappointed. Rams are in a really good position, but remember they are SO BAD, this will only get them started on their rebuild…

  36. Don says:

    Holmgren is an offense minded coach, and If I were hime I would draft Blackmon #4 and Tennehill #22. He could also go with Cousins who played college nearby, or Flynn. Basically the top rated WR and the best QB available.

  37. Darnell says:

    As a Hawks fan I’m just glad that the Rams aren’t getting RG3. The Seahawks QB situation doesn’t hurt as much when no one else in the division has a bigtime QB either.

  38. Misfit74 says:

    Doug, I agree. If Upshaw is so good, it’d be nice to see at least one other top-12 team think so, too.

    Where would couples fit on our D-line? Only in 43 fronts as a base DE? Most say he’s a strong-side DE (over the TE side, not the LT side) because he’s more power than pass-rush. That doesn’t excite me very much, besides his poor motor.

    Maybe we trade down for a guy like Mercilus or Branch?

    As much as I love T-Rich, I have to think he goes to TB or CLE. If not, I”d love to have him but I’d also love to add M.Floyd. Plenty of pass-rushers to be had in round 2 but not so with RBs or WRs and this year’s pass-rusher class is weak: even at the top.

  39. peter says:

    misfit74,

    My point before is that I don’t see wahsington as one player away from greatness. To make the bet they did is to say that you as a team are literally on eplayer away regardless of free- agency.

    I’d just like to see the Hawks get Osweiler this year and not bank on having a. a terrible season next year or b. and perhaps worse being at the same level next season and having to drop 3 picks.

  40. Stuart says:

    It looks like from the mocks that have come out since the combine, UPSHAW is sliding. If he is the guy, and if he is truly sliding, why not trade down? Lets say we trade with Cincy. They use #12 to draft Trent Richardson. We use our 17# from them to sellect between Uphaw, Fletcher Cox or Andre Branch, depending on who is avaiable from that group. Then with our own 2nd we draft OSWEILLER. Using the extra pick we got from Cincy we draft with our other 2nd round pick Doug Martin.

    Now would you rather have UPSHAW at #12 or trade down? By the trade down we have Cox/Brach/Upshaw (may still be available AND Doug Martin. Our draft could look something like this then:

    1.17-Fletcher Cox/Andre Branch/Upshaw/Mercilus/USC DE/LB (forget his name suddenly)
    2. (Ours) QB Brock Osweiler
    2. (Cincy’s from trade) RB Doug Martin
    3. LB Michel Kendricks
    4.LB Bruce Irvin (maybe even Vontage Burflict here?)

  41. AlaskaHawk says:

    Stuart
    I am of the opinion that Branch or Perry, will play as well as Upshaw at the DE position. In fact I think Perry will be faster. I also saw a few second rounders mocked that could serve well ( was it Kendaly Wright?) . But I’ve also said that if we want to upgrade pass rush it will have to be with at least two players, any one player will be too easy to block.

    Doug Martin RB would be a good choice if he falls to us. I like both your LBs. But not Vontage, he has too many mental issues.

    Osweiler – I don’t know if he will pan out. But if he doesn’t we could trade him later and not lose anything. Ideally he would be a 3 or 4 th round choice, ala New Englands rumored attempt to deal Ryan Mallet. I got a feeling that the Hawks would choose Cousins before Osweiler.

    I’ve got an even stronger feeling that they will find a cheap free agent off someone elses team. PC seems to like the experienced QBs better. If only Yates were available from Houston…..

  42. AlaskaHawk says:

    I meant to say Kendall Reyes as DE, Oklahoma,
    also Ronnell Lewis as a LB, either would be fine in the 2nd round or later.

  43. Ryan says:

    I am not sold on Osweiler at all. Just because he’s big doesn’t mean he’s good. I’d rather try Wilson or Davis in the later rounds.

  44. Rob says:

    Jeff – I wasn’t given the name of a team or a quarterback, so I can neither rule Tebow out or rule him in. All I was told was the team involved was a darkhorse for Manning and wasn’t being talked up much in the media. Denver would fit that description. But I have no idea if it’s them.

    Bilbo – Despite what we heard initially, I don’t think Seattle ever had serious interest in Manning. Funny how we went from ‘checkbook blazing’ to silence. I’m also led to believe there’s zero interest in Flynn according to my buddy Scott Enyeart.

    Rich – Richardson is definitely an option. I think the Rams are keen to find an interior defensive presence – they have the makings of a good D-line, but lack a great tackle. If Blackmon or Claiborne are off the board, it’s hard to think of an alternative because I doubt they’d take the secondary WR or CB options.

    Misfit74 – If you have Scott Pioli’s number… send me an email.

    Stuart – It depends on the grade they have for Osweiler. I think what’s more likely is a veteran addition to compete with T-Jack and then one or even two QB’s in the R4-7 region. But I really like Osweiler, I’d take him in R2 for sure. We’ll see what grade they have.

    Doug – this isn’t a serious mock, it was just a quick top-12 projection done before I drove 3 hours to work. I already said I’d mix things up in next week’s mock. I’m not going to deliberately manufacture things because people don’t rate Upshaw.

    Misfit74 – It’s not a case of Upshaw ‘being so good’, it’s a case of where he might go and what Seattle is looking for.

  45. Rob says:

    Stuart – He’s sliding in the media, who react too strongly to the combine because they don’t watch a lot of tape. If you like a guy a lot, you don’t risk moving down for an extra pick, and I’m not sure they’d get much for dropping from 12 to 17.

  46. Aaron says:

    I bet the Rams will now target Richardson so they have someone who can share the load with Steven Jackson.

  47. Tom T. says:

    Aaron, I totally agree. Jeff Fisher loves to run the ball and Richardson to St. Louis would completely fit the new regime’s mindset.

  48. Misfit74 says:

    Peter, I don’t view adding a rookie QB as a ‘one player away’ move, anytime, ever.

    Rob, if KC was content to roll with Thomas Jones (ancient) and Jackie Battle (terrible) behind Charles last year, I see no reason they would add a feature back given that they already have one in Charles. Zero reason to draft a RB in round 1 for KC unless Charles – who is very far along in his ACL recover, is cut or dead! They will add a RB, but I sincerely doubt it’s in round 1. It’s hardly their biggest need and, IMO, far from it. I’ll have Pioli give you a call. ;)

    A team like STL (30-year old RB) or TB (street FA Blount with limited skill-set) make more sense. The Browns have nothing but injury-prone Hardesty and street FAs at RB. My money is on TB or CLE for Richardson if he goes in the top-10.

    I tend to think STL will go WR or OT, depending on what MIN does. Perhaps Claiborne, if available. STL needs offense badly, but can get a couple more seasons out of SJax and have early picks in round 2 if they want to add a RB to compliment Jackson and have the talent to eventually take over the lead role. KC’s situation is much different. Charles is young and one of the best RBs in football. You don’t draft a guy like Richardson, who can really carry the mail, to play ahead of a guy like Charles.

  49. Rob says:

    Misfit74 – Kansas City didn’t have the opportunity to draft Trent Richardson last year. It’s all well and good saying they were ‘content’ with their situation 12 months ago – but a lot has changed since then. They’ve just endured a year when Charles suffered a serious injury and everything collapsed offensively. Charles – a home run hitter – would create a sensational partnership with Richardson and provide real identity for the Chiefs. If you’re going to rule that out, we might as well rule out Richardson to Seattle in the process given they have Marshawn Lynch. Don’t see enough evidence here to rule out Richardson to KC.

  50. AlaskaHawk says:

    I think Cleveland will take Trent Richardson. There are other good receivers to be had in the first round. But they won’t go wrong either way. I wonder if they even talked to Saint Louis about RG III?

  51. JJ says:

    Hey Rob help me out here. Is it just me or as a Seahawk im beginning to fell a little left out lol St.Louis getting a gang of high draft picks not to mention they already have their QB. San Fran growing playn well with their QB of the future holding a clipboard gaining exp waiting for take off. And ARZ abt to host Manning Whom erbody says is the best fit. Then the Redskins who in the middle of their rebuild gets their franchise guy in RG3.

    I guess my question is 2-3 yrs from now when we have our guy at QB do we really look arnd the league and say “man, sure am happy we built the rest of our team 1st”?, becus honestly by that time the teams rebuilding as we are now will hav used that time to build up their rosters arnd their Fran QB already.

    Hopefully this makes some sense. :)

  52. Rob says:

    It’s a great question JJ and one I suppose we’ll only be able to answer in a few years. I will say this – Washington looks great today, but they have nothing at receiver, a weak offensive line and only a handful of pieces on defense. RGIII won’t be a miracle worker and Shanahan will have to start winning now they’ve made the big splash. They’ll be relying on free agency to build around RGIII, which isn’t ideal. So I see the pro’s and con’s of the trade. Seattle may well be in a better position if they can get their QB without mortgaging the future, while also building quietly. I do think PC and JS will get it right, but it’s going to take time.

  53. JJ says:

    Yeah the only redeeming aspect i can mayb see is 2-3yrs from now, mayb their QBs falter a bit becus the supporting cast wasnt in place from the get go or as gradually i.e Sanchez, and all other Qbs thrown into the fire.
    What really scares me is wht San Fran is doing queitly with their QBs, re-upping Smith for a Fran friendly 3yrs just long enuff to give Kapernick time to grow learn and be ready to take the reigns without missing a beat mayb even better, witha young dominating D.

  54. JJ says:

    Another side note ive seen were ppl having been sayn by this time next yr we’ll be the only real hungry Qb team out their, with just abt erbody setting in with their fran Qbs.

    But to me that is just FOOLS GOLD!
    By this time nxt year Minn will learn Ponder cant do it, KC will turn away from Cassel, Arz mayb looks past Kolb same with Mia if they dnt land Manning or mayb even with manning. And im sure several other teams i havent mentioned in this post.

    I apologize fro being a neg ned. Im sure the Hawks plan will turn out well dnt you?

  55. Misfit74 says:

    KC will go the frugal route and sign a guy like Ced Benson to backup Charles.

  56. Rob says:

    Scott Pioli doesn’t sign guys like Cedric Benson.

  57. Misfit74 says:

    “Scott Pioli doesn’t sign guys like Cedric Benson.”

    Aging, washed up RBs? See: Thomas Jones. ;)

  58. PatrickH says:

    Rob,

    You keep saying it, but there has been no evidence that the Seahawks are in the Manning sweepstakes just to drive up the price for the Cardinals. To me, it seems like their interest (which I believe to be genuine) is completely consistent with their relentless, leave-no-stones-unturned approach to upgrade their roster. However, it seems to me that Manning’s priority is to go to a team that is ready for a Superbowl run, and doesn’t care as much about money. Objectively, the Seahawks is not a Superbowl-ready team yet, and their blazing checkbook isn’t going to change that fact.

    From Danny O’Neil: “The Seahawks haven’t been told they’re not a consideration, and are waiting to hear more information.”

    From Jason LaCanfora: “Nothing scheduled for Manning beyond trip to AZ, then back to MIA. Always subject to change but other interested teams in the dark for now.”

  59. Rob says:

    In fairness Patrick, what do you expect to see? The whole point if you want to drive up the price is to give the impression of serious interest. Nobody reported that Seattle’s decision not to interview Griffin III at the combine was purely to take themselves out of any potential leverage situations for STL when discussing with Cleveland and Washington. I know that to be true. Instead, people speculated it was a hint the Seahawks would move up, which was impossible to do.

    I understand why fans want Manning in Seattle, I really do. But I can’t help but feel we’re in the same situation as a week or to ago when people were desperately trying to talk up a Griffin III trade as a possibility. The Seahawks are not major contenders for Manning, but rest assured they do NOT want him signing a nice bargain contract in Arizona. We hear check books blazing on day one of Manning watch, and then nothing until the day he boards a plane to Arizona. Coincidence? Maybe not. Denver, Arizona, Miami are the teams to look at, with maybe a wildcard emerging at the last moment. That wildcard will almost certainly not be the Seahawks.

  60. PatrickH says:

    This Rams-Redskins trade has set a bad precedent. Even if Barkley’s stock goes down next year, it will probably costs 2 first-round picks to go from, say, 16th to the 8th spot to get a QB in next year’s draft. Forget about it if Barkley remains the 1st overall pick.

  61. PatrickH says:

    Rob,

    I accepted the fact that the Seahawks are long shot to get Manning, but I disagree with you on the intentions/honesty of the current Seahawks FO. You are asking me to buy a conspiracy theory without presenting any evidence, or any evidence that they have done so in the past.

    BTW, the quotes I put in above are from yesterday when Manning arrived in Denver. They are not from today.

  62. Belgaron says:

    Washington is notorious for trying to compete for the biggest splash (see 2009 Albert Haynesworth 7 years $115 million with $41 million guaranteed). Also the franchise is famous for trading away first round picks (25 times) long before Snyder bought them in ’99. Their actions don’t really set a precedent as much validate the rule by being the exception. If they hadn’t been involved, St. Louis would have dragged it out until the draft and agreed at the last minute to the highest bidder for much less (probably 2 1sts, a 3rd, and a 5th). I think the Browns were hoping the Rams would be forced to use the pick themselves.

    Every year is unique and several good QBs could emerge as top ten picks during the season. It is safe to assume it will be difficult and a little pricier than the old trade value chart now that high 1st round choices don’t have the over-priced contracts after the recent CBA. If the Josh Portis projects continues with success, he may be like a first round pick by then.

  63. Michael (CLT) says:

    Doug Flutie II will be the ticket (Russell Martin).

    Man. Feels like 1992 again. This sucks.

  64. Misfit74 says:

    Conversely, it could be Peyton Manning who is visiting the Broncos, Cardinals, and Dolphins first in order to leverage the best deal out of Seattle.

  65. Colin says:

    Russell Martin is a catcher…. in your negativity you meant Russell Wilson.

  66. matt says:

    hey belagron,thanks for the info on the redskins,25 times,yikes.
    however your reference to st louis getting 2 1st,3rd and 5th.right now they got
    2 1st and a 2nd.now this isnt just for you,so many times since the trade ive read where people dont seem to have the correct ratio in proper context.they’re about equal trades.in my mind a fair trade for both sides.now it just depends on how well both front offices execute.
    patrick.also not personal but i loath statements like yours that assume any true knowledge of how a sports figure is thinking.really in any given context,and then
    make assumptions based on the suppossed knowldge.sorry it doesnt work that way.
    we as casual fans have no idea of how this works for those in the rarified air of superstardom.or even simple stardom
    a case in point.and a tangent to boot but to the casual fan we see tavaris jackson in a certain light.but i’ll
    bet a dollar to a donut that his teamates and coaches see him totally different.they for sure see his shortcomings,but they have greater respect for his courage and his skill.
    make seattles defence top 5,shore up some areas on offence and in depth.we have 6 picks,only one to a quarteback,hit on 4 of them,like last year,30 million in money and who knows how far we can go.

  67. Michael (CLT) says:

    Colin – Thank you for the correction. Go Doug Flutie! Still feels 92′ish.

  68. Michael (CLT) says:

    Colin – I am negative towards the Seahawks. Why?

    Let’s talk about QB Bridging – How it works:

    1) Team lets veteran QB go with intent on getting younger and establishing a new identity
    2) Team targets QBOF within next two years
    3) Bridge QB identified: Must be a QB that is tough as nails, will try hard, and will have no shot at beating out QBOF past year one
    4) Team drafts OL/Skill Position players with Bridge QB playing and getting smashed
    5) Year 3, Team leads shiny new NFL identity onto the gridiron

    Seattle is now in bridge hell. They let go of the veteran QB. They found a tough as nails bridge. They got the OL/Position Players.

    Ah… hey dude… you forgot the most important part. You know, the part where you create a new team identity. Oh yeah. The QBOF. Oops.

    Why would Seattle let Hasselbeck go if the plan was to wait for a QB coming out in 2013? And don’t tell me cause he’d get smashed. He would still be the bridge. He would get smashed… so what. Better draft pick for QBOF. Better fan experience and nostalgia, secondary bridge (TJack) would also get chance to get smashed.

    It just does not make any sense any more. It is freaking random roster making. It is roster making without an offensive mind in the room. It is rudderless.

    So, now the popular rumor is the FO has targeted their QBOF in 2013!? Unbelievable.

    I guess they will have to pick a QB in 2013, cause TJack will be all smashed up by then, Portis will finally have his chance to fail, and JS/PC will get their chance to “Panic”.

    Yes. I am not pleased with the “rebuild”.

    All that will settle me is to see Carpenter turn into a serviceable lineman and Dalton suck. I doubt both of those will happen.

  69. Colin says:

    This team is not going to have a historically bad offense. That’s why. Granted, I don’t enjoy the thought of TJack being our best QB on the field in 2012, but based upon the play in 2011 compared to what I expected (6-10 was my expectation), I strongly believe a 9-7 or 10-6 mark in 2012 isn’t out of question. They were a couple plays away from beating Atlanta. A horrible holding call away from beating Cleveland. A couple of missed plays on defense from beating Washington. A couple turnovers against San Fran and AZ from wins in the final two.

    Seattle had 11 wins for the taking. The defense and running game should not only be more consistent, but better.

    Think what you will about Carpenter and Dalton. To say the roster was built “rudderless” on offense is nothing short of complete rubbish. Carroll wants a strong defense and running game and that’s what we were seeing over the final half of the year.

    Patience my friend. Pete and John are going to make this a dynasty to remember. You watch.

  70. Colin says:

    With that said, I don’t want anyone to believe I’m content with 7-9 for two more years- I’m not. I just don’t think Pete and John have the flexibility of say, a Ken Whisenhunt. You want a team with no offensive identity? AZ fits the bill perfect. What do they want to do? Whiz has been there 5 years and they still can’t run the ball well, can’t protect their QB’s and really don’t have any semblence of what’s to come. Pete and John can’t afford to bring in a really bad QB (Derek Anderson) and then make a horrific trade for a backup (Kolb). I’d rather we be in our position than theirs. I can handle one more year of Tarvaris because I believe when they do decide to add that guy who is the QBOTF, we become the Ravens of the NFC. Super Bowl contenders year in and year out.

    THAT is what I want. I don’t want lightning in a bottle. I want to be that team that every year has a chance to win it all.

  71. PatrickH says:

    matt,

    I am not sure I understand what you are saying, so I will just try to explain my points and hopefully make them clearer.

    (1) Seahawks contacted Manning’s camp immediately after he was released – Unless there are evidence to the contrary, I am taking the simpler explanation and conclude that they are in fact interested in signing Manning.

    (2) Manning visiting the Arizona Cardinals but not the Redskins: According to John Clayton, the Cardinals only have about $3 million in cap room, and in the past their owner had a record of being cheap. Redskins, however, have about $36 million cap space and their owner had a record of spending. My conclusion – money is not the most important factor in Manning’s decision.

    (3) Since you brought up Tavaris Jackson, I will apply my thought process to that situation. In the past year, his teammates and Pete Carroll were always supportive in their interviews, and I haven’t read or heard any “insider” information that contradicted those statements. So I will conclude that Jackson does have the respect and support of his coach and teammates.

    I think I am reasonable in coming to my conclusions. Maybe naive, but reasonable.

  72. Rob says:

    Patrick – I’m not asking you to buy into anything, rather just offering a different take. I’ve heard Seattle were never major players for Manning – so when I hear things like ‘checkbooks blazing’ I ask myself “why?” Teams play all kinds of games – with their own players sometimes. They do it to each other all the time. It’s not a conspiracy theory to suggest Seattle’s main motivation in the Manning sweepstakes is to drive up the price to keep him clear of Arizona. While Manning isn’t what Seattle are looking for – they definitely would rather face Kevin Kolb twice next year than chance Peyton returning to form. And I can’t provide you a photo of a giggling John Schneider on the phone to Peyton’s agent as proof. But then nobody had a photo of a blazing checkbook either and despite the continued reports of ‘talks’, he’s flying back to the east coast after trips to Denver and Arizona. I would imagine if Seattle wanted Peyton – and with their financial clout and supporting cast – he’d be making that trip. As for not visiting Washington – it was made obvious that Peyton did not want to compete in the same division with Eli. This knowledge is what provoked the Skins to ramp up trade negotiations for Griffin III. More than a coincidence that a deal happened when it did – when Manning’s reps said a move to Washington wouldn’t happen. Arizona can also clear significant cap space by cutting Kolb and Levi Brown – who would both be replaced anyway (Kolb by Peyton, Brown by the #13 pick). However, there is a point where the price might rise too high – especially with potential big spenders like Miami in the running. Money might not be the motivation, but if a team is willing to double what Arizona is offering, that’s significant. He’s clearly willing to move to the NFC West, which is why he’s visited Arizona. I’m not here to tell you what to think and if you want to believe the Seahawks have serious interest and are major players in the Manning race, that’s your decision. For me, it’s almost equal to hoping Seattle would trade for a division rival to get RGIII.

    Misfit74 – Seattle are not and have never been major players for Manning. Some of the media reports over the last few days have been ludicrous.

    Colin – perfectly put. Arizona made a Super Bowl under Whisenhunt thanks to Kurt Warner, then collapsed offensively when he retired. There was a window for Arizona to dominate this division the way Seattle did for a few years, and it was lost the day their QB retired. They have no identity on offense, and it’s wasting the talents of a fairly competitive defense and one of the truly elite players in the game right now (Fitzgerald). They’re left to take pot-shots at Kolb, Manning – hoping they can recapture what they had with Warner. Seattle is setting itself up to be a consistent challenger not relying on one individual. We’ll see whether this plan works, but the way PC and JS have improved the overall roster so far is impressive.

  73. Michael (CLT) says:

    The greatest draft pick in Carolina history was Jimmy Clausen. Without Clausen, there is no Cam Newton.

    Be willing to fail. It is the greatest reward. Risk right, and you reap reward. Risk wrong, and get the goods to risk right.

  74. AlaskaHawk says:

    Yes risk vs reward – That’s why I think PC should have kept Whitehurst in for the rest of the season. And when he was done with Whitehurst he should have tried Portis out, at least for a quarter here and there. We would have been much closer to Griffin or Luck if he had continued playing him.

  75. Misfit74 says:

    “The Boston Herald is hearing that at least one team is “extremely hot” on free agent BenJarvus Green-Ellis.
    We’re guessing it’s the Chiefs because of Green-Ellis’ organizational ties, as well as Kansas City’s need for a power back complement to Jamaal Charles. Green-Ellis is a replacement-level runner, but he is exceptional in terms of ball security and vision. He’s fully expected to hit the open market on March 13.”

    Guess or not, this is how the Chiefs operate, and I fully expect them to pass on Richardson already having a feature runner in Charles.

    Unfortunately, now that Lynch is signed long-term, I also expect Seattle to pass if he somehow slid.

  76. Rob says:

    An unnamed team being linked to BJGE is hardly a cast-iron guarantee that KC won’t draft Richardson!

  77. diehard82 says:

    I always felt the coin toss with KC (which we lost) was HUGE in affecting whether we could trade down, because I thought KC was a logical landing spot for Richardson. If we were 11 and they were 12, I really thought Cincy might move up from 17. Now, I think he just lands in KC. I still think the Hawks will try to trade down for additional picks, but more likely we have to pick someone at 12. Still having a hard time warming up to Upshaw that high though. I can’t see him replacing Clemons at LEO or Red at 5-tech. And at pick 12 I’d want a guy who will contribute mightily immediately. Kuechly (replaces Hawthorne), Cox or Still (3-tech), Floyd (opposite Rice) or even DeCastro (starts at RG) make more sense to me. I don’t think St. Louis is serious about Richardson at 6. More liklely just trying to work another trade.

  78. Rob says:

    I wouldn’t worry too much about Upshaw contributing early, diehard. He is one of the few players in this class who will be making plays in week one IMO. He won’t be replacing Bryant or Clemons either – he’d be complimenting them. This defense is going to be even more of a hybrid in 2012.

  79. Misfit74 says:

    “The Kansas City Chiefs and Seattle Seahawks are out. Each team tried to get Manning to visit. He declined.”

    http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20152563/peyton-manning-nearing-decision-is-impressed-broncos-sources

    Seriously? :( :( :(

  80. Rob says:

    You are surprised? Due diligence and ‘anywhere but Arizona’ was always the heart of this situation. I hope fans realise that and don’t see this as some kind of ‘failure’ by PC/JS or an ‘insult’ by Manning. It is neither.

  81. Misfit74 says:

    Actually, I take it with a grain of salt. It’s a report from Denver. Manning hasn’t publicly ruled anyone out. He just hasn’t visited YET. If he does remains to be seen. The guy’s had a busy few days. Perhaps he’ll still visit us – and other teams. I figured we’d at least get a visit and think we still might.

  82. Rob says:

    I think it’s time we moved on.

  83. Misfit74 says:

    “Contrary to an earlier report by the Denver Post, a team source with knowledge of the situation confirmed that Peyton Manning has not declined an invitation to visit with the Seattle Seahawks which means the door remains open that the future Hall of Famer could expand his trips to include a possible visit to Seattle.”

    http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2012/03/11/hawks-say-door-still-open-for-manning/

  84. Rob says:

    Couldn’t have timed that worse really, given Schefter and Mort have now confirmed via ESPN that Seattle and KC are out of the running.

    “The Seattle Seahawks and Kansas City Chiefs have failed in their attempts to get Manning to visit their facilities and are no longer considered contenders for the quarterback, sources said.”

  85. Misfit74 says:

    So, you think ESPN regurgitating the report made by a Denver reporter is valid vs. confirmation from the Seahawks themselves? I’d like to give you more credit than that, Rob.

  86. Rob says:

    So you’re assuming information is being regurgitated by two of the best in the business? Heck – I’d hazard a guess that it’s Manning’s people speaking to Mortensen, Schefter and Klis. They’re the ones who matter, after all.

    Time to move on. Manning was never likely to be the next Seahawks quarterback, and he’s not going to be. No point dwelling on this anymore. As we’ve said all along – no serious interest, due diligence and a desire to do everything to make life is difficult for Arizona. This isn’t a snub, it’s a reflection on the situation. We move along, we look forward to free agency and then the draft.

  87. Misfit74 says:

    I just know one cited a team source (Seahawks) and the article was by a Seahawks beat reporter. I trust that more than a sudden report by ESPN without sources right on the heels of the Denver report and Doug’s post about the Denver report on Shutdown corner. I could be wrong, but that’s my view.

  88. Rob says:

    And you’re free to hold that view. But a beat writer ringing a team and asking, “Have you heard anything?”… and the response being, “No”… does not dissolve anything if the player or his rep’s are telling national media guys that Seattle and KC are not being considered and are out. Schefter and Mortensen are not going to put something in an article that makes them look stupid down the line.

    If you want to believe there’s a chance Peyton could still land in Seattle, feel free. I fear you will be disappointed, though.

  89. Misfit74 says:

    From ESPN: “The Seattle Seahawks and Kansas City Chiefs have failed in their attempts to get Manning to visit their facilities and are no longer considered contenders for the quarterback, sources said.”

    Sources said? See: Mike Klis, Denver Post

    It will all play out how it’s going to play out, though. I don’t trust the journalistic integrity of ESPN without a source cited and the timing is easy to break down. Regardless, I think the team may still get a visit. The point is the door is closed when one of two things happen: 1. The Seahawks say so or 2. Peyton Manning says so. Not Denver’s Mike Klis, not ‘sources’ from ESPN on the heels of Mike Klis’ report. That’s all I’m saying. Maybe I’m delusional and clinging to hope rather than sense, but there is still a chance…at least until there’s not.

    Do I expect to land Manning? No, not really. Haven’t ever really thought we were ‘likely’ to land him. But, I did and do hope for a reasonably fair fight. If the team intends to talk to him, have invited him and spoken with him (as has been cited by various accounts), then I think our interest is legitimate and there is only subjective opinion saying we don’t – no evidence – just speculation.

    Looking forward, I can say that I’m not sure where I’d rather see him land other than Seattle. I know damn sure I’m not interested in Tebow from Denver. Matt Moore doesn’t inspire confidence as a long-term solution. I’m not sure Kolb would come to us in an Arizona scenario. Where does not landing Manning leave us at QB? Tarvaris Jackson, it would seem. Perhaps all this Upshaw talk is to keep things quite about the team’s interest (secret interest) in Tannehill. Wouldn’t that be something?

    Let’s say we d

  90. Michael L says:

    I think in this situation it’s either Richardson, Poe, or a trade down to accumulate even more picks in the draft. St. Louis is in a really nice place with all their draft picks.