Thursday notes: Backup QB’s, Taco’s & more Clowney

April 30th, 2020 | Written by Rob Staton

Here are some quick fire notes today. Tomorrow I’m starting my 2021 prospect articles, beginning with Florida’s Kyle Pitts.

— Jameis Winston took a cheap contract in New Orleans for a few reasons. One — he’s seen Teddy Bridgewater rebuild his career with the Saints. Two — Sean Payton is a quarterback guru. Three — there’s a job opening in 12 months when Drew Brees retires. You can’t compare his situation to Andy Dalton and Cam Newton. And there’s no way they’d take a million bucks to hold Russell Wilson’s Microsoft Surface for a season.

— When John Schneider was asked on 710 ESPN how he felt they’d handled the pass rush issue this off-season, he immediately brought up — without any teeing up — Jadeveon Clowney. As noted yesterday — there’s got to be a reason why the Seahawks are not signing other players despite needs at defensive tackle and backup quarterback in particular. They are clearly willing, at the moment at least, to wait for Clowney. Why? Because he’s what Pete Carroll calls a ‘field tilter’. The Seahawks need a ‘field tilter’ on their D-line. And he’s the only one left and might’ve been the only one available to begin with.

— I get the impression there will be some frustration internally about this situation. Probably because Seattle’s is by far the best offer. And yet he still won’t agree to it. However, that also puts them — still — in pole position for whenever he does make a decision. That’s a likely reason why they are continuing to wait — along with the continued availability of Plan B (Everson Griffen).

— There’s so much criticism of Clowney out there. What he’s doing is clearly unconventional. A lot of players just take the best offer available. Yet he’s not like most players. He has made $50,583,998 in his career so far. And he has decided he’s happy to risk losing money to make a decision when he’s ready, rather than take an offer he doesn’t think represents his true value. If he wants to do that, it’s his prerogative — however frustrating that might be to the Seahawks and their fans.

— It was interesting to hear Schneider mention ‘the three linebackers’ in round one when talking on 710 ESPN. It seems like they identified that as a position of value in the late first and an area they wanted to tap into — whether it was Kenneth Murray, Jordyn Brooks or Patrick Queen. For the second year in a row I’ve badly misjudged their interest in the position. That said, a year ago they drafted two linebackers after paying Bobby Wagner big money and re-signing K.J. Wright and Mychal Kendricks. This year they drafted Brooks with Cody Barton and Ben Burr-Kirven added to the mix. That’s a lot of resource spent on one position — Wagner and Wright alone are taking up $25m of the cap in 2020.

— Taco Charlton is available after being waived by Miami. My question would be — why has he been waived twice already in a three year career after being taken by Dallas with the #28 pick? What’s his deal? Why are teams allergic to his presence?

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188 Responses to “Thursday notes: Backup QB’s, Taco’s & more Clowney”

  1. Bryan C says:

    One thing about the linebackers comment is that Schneider learned GM role under Packers and in an interview a while back stated something to the effect that teams are always drafting for 2 or 3 season down the road. In that light, the Packers drafting Love makes some sense as does Seahawks drafting a LB as high as they did. It seems like a post-Wagner move and hedging against Wagner declining and being released in 2021.

    • Spencer says:

      I just read that they’re considering moving KJ to SAM.

      When he was first drafted, his versatility was a plus with the ability to play everywhere, however Carroll explicitly stated that he liked the idea of Wright as the SAM with his ability to rush the passer.

      I thought for sure Brooks was destined for SAM, but Rob pointed out that Brooks fits better as a MIKE or WILL, so moving KJ over to SAM makes a lot of sense. This seems to fit their current abilities well, where KJ can be responsible for covering the TE and containing the edge instead of having him isolated in space as he’s certainly lost a step.

      In that same vein, I still really like the possibility of converting McDougald to big nickel and letting Blair get more reps as the SS. Both of these internal moves seem to solve a lot of problems, maximize our talent on the field and put all of our guys in the best position to succeed.

      • Spencer says:

        This also seems to indicate that Schneider sees Irvin as an edge as opposed to a linebacker.

      • Hojo says:

        Do you think Blair is a long term FS or SS? I also read that he could be mixed in at Nickel CB this year.

        I like the idea of getting Blair on the field. I thought he flashed as a rookie. I also like Amadi and hope he develops into the long term answer at Nickel CB. I think the 2019 draft class was sneaky good.

        • Spencer says:

          It’s tough to say. He had experience playing all over in college, including single-high looks like the Seahawks play their FS. I think he plays more like a SS but has the build of a more traditional FS. I think he projects better as a SS if he shows that he can tackle in the NFL. McDougald is better in coverage than Blair for sure at least and that’s why I think he’d be a better Nickel.

          • Big Mike says:

            My only question with Blair at SS is whether his body will hold up to the physicality of the position. He’s only a buck 95.

    • EranUngar says:

      It may not be a “down the road” pick.

      https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29121492/seahawks-lb-kj-wright-had-shoulder-surgery-gm-says

      JS says that KJ had a shoulder injury and he has no timeline on his recovery.

      That also puts his 1M roster bonus from March in a different light. Originally it was considered an indication that his place is secured but even if they are considering moving on from his big cap contract, paying injury settlement is more expensive the the roster bonus….

  2. Daniel2o6 says:

    Thanks as always for your insight. Any thoughts on the timing of the releases of Britt/Fluke? When I saw that I was excited that it likely meant we’d see some action with Clowney / other moves this week but now it seems like it was as much about getting them opportunities to sign on elsewhere now that the team feels comfortable rolling with what they have on the o-line. Is that your take as well?

    Also curious what other teams might be suiters for Griffen. Seems like he could help press the issue by giving the Hawks an ultimatum in the form of another offer. Without Griffen out there, Hawks would be foolish to put all their eggs in the Clown(ey) basket.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Think it was just something they always planned to do after the draft.

      On Griffen — it felt like Minnesota and Seattle were the two when he was released. I suspect that’s still the case.

      I don’t think they’re putting all their eggs in the Clowney basket — but he’s a superior player by far to any alternative right now. So I can see why they will exhaust this until is necessary.

  3. charlietheunicorn says:

    I think Taco has had problems staying healthy more than anything else.
    Clayton seemed to think he could be brought in for minimum salary deal, which wouldn’t be that bad as another piece to play with on the DL.

    *snooping the internet*
    Interesting, he was called “inconsistent” by Zierlein about his Michigan CFB tape.
    There also was a dig at whether he can be coached or is willing to be coached up.

    For a minimum deal, I would take a swing if GMing the Seahawks.

  4. Old but Slow says:

    While I have followed drafts fairly closely for a lot of years but this is the first time that I have begun my interest in the next year this early. Thank you for the list you provided and I am looking forward to seeing how it all evolves.

    So, it’s your fault. Thank you.

  5. dcd2 says:

    I wouldn’t say you whiffed on LB necessarily. The fact that we have the highest paid LB’s in the nfl and just drafted 2 last year, along with the fact that our base defense was “overused” would indicate it would be lower than priority #1. Yet you still mentioned and highlighted Willie Gay and Logan Wilson.

    I think they don’t have high hopes for BBK and see him as merely a special teamer.

    What’s a bit surprising in particular is that the NFL doesn’t put as much value on the position. So if you’re looking for a FA EDGE, it’s more costly than a FA Mike/Will. Pete seems to value the position as much as any coach in the league. Maybe they feel that the rest of the NFL undervalues the position and treat it as a market inefficiency.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think it was a whiff… but an understandable whiff.

    • Blake says:

      I have been rewatching some 2019 afc playoff games in corona boredom…I’ve been really impressed seeing the titans linebacker play. Fast physical hard hitting linebackers who are making plays and making tackles and just thinking it strange that the league is not valuing that position group more…I think watching them is a blueprint for how Carroll would like to look against teams like the niners, ravens, rams, cardinals etc

  6. Clayton says:

    -“And he has decided he’s happy to risk losing money to make a decision when he’s ready, rather than take an offer he doesn’t think represents his true value. If he wants to do that, it’s his prerogative — however frustrating that might be to the Seahawks and their fans.”

    I think this is absolutely true. Since other teams are not going to pay him the big bucks, this demonstrates his market. And since Seattle will not overpay, for Clowney to really stand his ground on this position, I think he has to feel that if he isn’t going to be paid his true value that he will be willing to walk away from the game. It’s the only outcome to the stalemate.

    • TomLPDX says:

      He won’t walk away. There is still major money to be had.

      • Rob Staton says:

        I don’t think he’ll retire either. But I also think he’s showing he’s not going to be forced into something he doesn’t think is right. And if he’s a ‘point of principle’ man he might walk away. It’s not like he needs the money.

        • Simo says:

          I just can’t see him walking away, whether he gets a higher offer than he currently has or not. My belief is that rich people always want to become richer (maybe that’s just people in general). Like Tom mentioned there’s still big money to be had for Clowney. Now, he just has to figure out the best way for him to save face, as he won’t want it to look like he had to settle for far less than his worth. He will definitely sign somewhere!

          • Rob Staton says:

            Some rich people certainly want to become richer — but we also see a lot of young athletes walking away. Andrew Luck is a good example. Clowney might feel — I don’t think he will but he might — if you’re not paying me what I believe I’m worth, I’m not doing this any more.

            • EmperorMA says:

              It would be hard to be worth $50M and in your late 20’s to walk away from another $50M ($35M or $45M or whatever) that you can take and be done in your early 30s.

              I am not aware of any business prospects Clowney may have outside of football, but of course he can always parlay the $50M he’s made so far into more income. But walking away with $50M at 27 years of age would be hard for anyone to do when they could walk away with nearly $100M at the age of 30.

              • Rob Staton says:

                You need to get out of the mindset that everyone thinks this way.

                Andrew Luck could’ve made whatever he wanted. He walked away.

                Just because he can earn more doesn’t mean he wants to. I don’t think he’ll retire but you’re acting like all he has to do is sign a piece of paper and he automatically gets another $50m. Nope.

                • EmperorMA says:

                  I realize he doesn’t get the money just by signing. But he has to realize that his window for making that kind of money is narrow. Signing now for 4/$16M or 5/$15M could indeed be preferable to playing on a 1-year contract hoping to up his value, especially when considering his injury history.

                  It is hard to say what he’s thinking, though. On one hand, his willingness to hold out to get what he feels he’s worth is an indication that he does want to make money. It’s the not knowing if he is so adamant about his worth that he is willing to risk the possibility of not making anything at all to make his point.

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    He doesn’t have to realise anything.

                    We saw Andrew Luck walk away from millions less than a year ago.

                    Not sure why it’s so hard to fathom a player saying he either gets what he’s worth or f the league. I don’t think he will do that but he might do. Some players aren’t driven by stockpiling millions.

              • Paul Cook says:

                Doing a bit of Googling around, Clowney has a net worth of about 13 million, not 50 million.

    • Elmer says:

      And the Seahawks aren’t going to overpay. When I think of players who have been given big bucks by the ‘Hawks, the names Russell Wilson, Bobby Wagner, Marshawn Lynch, and Richard Sherman come to mind. Sorry, Clowney is reaally good and it’s a position of need, but he hasn’t reached that level yet.

    • TatupuTime says:

      It’s a frustrating situation – but I just don’t see what the forcing function to getting a deal done with Clowney is at this point. Seattle is wiling to play the waiting game (with financial flexibility to beat other offers and get their guy). If I’m Clowney’s camp, I don’t see the Seattle offer drying up – so why not just wait? Maybe a big injury happens early in camp and another team panics and makes a better offer to him? Maybe there is still teams interested pending a medical and medicals can happen in the pre-season.

      We also don’t know what Clowney’s fallback is. He may have a 1 year deal on the table for less money than the Seahawks that would allow him to go to a desirable location, rack up a better sack season in another system and hit the market in a year with better stats and the ability to do medical check-ups.

      To me the real decision for the Seahawks is if Griffen gets tired of waiting and tells the Seahawks that he’s going to sign with Minny unless the Seahawks up their offer to him. In that case do the Seahawks have to decide between just going with the lesser sure option Griffen, or to go and ride or die with Clowney and fallback of their current group (yuck).

      Based on nothing I don’t think it’s likely that Clowney retires. But I don’t think situation gets resolved until around the start of training camps.

  7. BruceN says:

    “ For the second year in a row I’ve badly misjudged their interest in the position.”

    Welcome to the club. I believe no one has ever judged or anticipated their moves.

    “ Probably because Seattle’s is by far the best offer. And yet he still won’t agree to it.”

    What is the number they have put in front of him? I’ve seen 2/$27 (laughably low) up to 4 years at $18.5/year. I don’t think either is right. But what is it?

    He really doesn’t have to take any offers, including a one year prove it deal. Why take that risk. He can afford to be patient until things open up and he can fly around and take a physical. Eventually a team like Jets or Cleveland may break down and do what they normally do (make a bad business decision). Keep an eye on the Titans (although they have to pay Ryan and Henry too).

    • Rob Staton says:

      “I believe no one has ever judged or anticipated their moves.”

      I think we’ve done a pretty good job to be fair — and will continue to do a good job. But ultimately there are certain things we’ll get wrong too — or things we can’t predict from afar.

      • charlietheunicorn says:

        Is there any way to make a “grit” or backstory score for guys?

        Several interviews have indicated they are paying attention or making more of an effort to find these types of players and give them a shot. I know it is really almost impossible to find out this stuff prior to the draft, but this really could unlock some of their picks… when you have 2 or 3 guys rated identically.

        With the information we can glean from SPARQ, prior draft physical traits and position weakness/strength in each draft…. the blog routinely gets within the ballpark of what they are looking for, with incomplete information.

      • BruceN says:

        To be honest, you prepare and your research is excellent. And I prefer your draft board better.
        I just got done reading a 49er blog (being in NorCal) and they’re howling and super happy about our draft. This is a clean blog so I can’t even post some of their comments. They think if not for Hobbit (their nickname for Russell!) we would win only 4 games this year. They also call him the “magician”.

    • McZ says:

      – 3 sacks and 7 TFL
      – injury plagued with another surgery
      – no way to workout
      – forcing his way out of a contract by sitting out

      All this makes your contract value in the NFL plummet like a stone.

      There are really only two things left to do for Clowney:
      1) sign a one year prove it deal, become a leader and raise the value
      2) sign a two-year deal for a lot less than he thinks he deserves, playing more or less the same shit, being out of the NFL thereafter

      Signing a 20m+ multiple year job security deal was never a choice, IMO. My November DL depression was not right thinking, that JS will sign him regardless the price.

      That said, Clowney still has all the keys to his future. Sign the deal, give us the division, and this FO or another one will pay you. He needs to put in all the work required.

      • God of Thunder says:

        I’ve gone from wanting him signed long term to solidify a position of need, to not wanting more than a show me deal.

        The red flags are accumulating (your opinions may all be different): ego/pride, low sack no., attitude (allegedly his people are telling media figures he’d love to play for the Jets), injury history questions. He hasn’t lived up to his draft billing.

        God forbid we give him a 5 year deal.

  8. Troy says:

    Hey Rob, I’m hoping that you will put out an in depth piece covering Darrell Taylor, is that on your list of articles you plan to write about?

    I would love to see who you think he compares to, what his ceiling is, floor, estimated sacks/pressures, etc.

    • Rob Staton says:

      It’s certainly something I will consider doing. I’m struggling with an ideal comparison. At his best, when he bends/straightens off the edge like he does, you’re talking about a Von Miller level in terms of balance, lean, quicks. The problem for him is he’s nowhere near as consistent as Miller. And he’s not Miller. That’s not a comp. I’m just talking about the way he attacks the edge and when he wins, he looks awesome.

  9. Rob Staton says:

    Today, for my day job, I had to go and film in a huge warehouse which contains frozen food.

    It was -24 degrees Celsius, which is -11 Fahrenheit.

    We were only allowed to be in there for 5-6 mins at a time to film, then we had to leave, warm up and go in again. The camera I was using had frost and ice on it.

    I have absolutely no idea how Seattle & Minnesota played a 3-4 hour football game in -6 Fahrenheit weather. My fingers felt like they were going to drop off.

    • Dingbatman says:

      To this day parts of me contract up into my body cavity when I recall Jon Ryan smashing face first onto that frozen ground.

      • It is absolutely miserable…lol. I used to work in a fishing boat in Alaska and worked in a -50 degree freezer hold. We had a monster freezer suit and could only stay in there for an hour. Your teeth would start to chatter towards the end.

    • GerryG says:

      I lived in Fairbanks AK for two years. The -40 winters were brutal. Just miserable.

      • I grew up in Alaska, and -20 to -30 was just another winters day. Maybe it’s because we were you g and stupid (wearing tennis she’s in winter level stupid) , but I can’t imagine living there as an adult.

    • Bob Johnston says:

      I don’t think it was a coincidence that they got off to such an abysmal start against the Panthers the next week, I think that cold weather game took a lot out of them mentally and physically.

      • D-OZ says:

        I grew up in Alaska. Fished for 51 year’s in the Bering Sea out of Dutch Harbor. When I got into my 30’s I had already been fishing for 15+ year’s and would have anxiety attacks whenever it time to head north again for another season. Misery!!!!

    • Kendo says:

      I think it really comes down to what your conditioned for and how well you’re bundled up. I moved back to WA after four years in WI. The cold didn’t bother me like I thought it would. Even in negative temps. On the plus side I don’t need a jacket during the Seattle winters now.

      • Jhams says:

        When I was a Marine in 29 Palms, we had a kid from Alaska in my co. Nobody likes 120+* but he looked like he was gonna die in the 90’s. Amazing what our bodies can get adapted to with time.

  10. Eburgz says:

    I’d bet they had Kenneth Murray over Brooks.

    Also, not sure why everyone is expecting Brooks to be a MiKE. He can do it… but I think it’s obvious they want him to compete at the WILL from day 1. I think during preseason (if it happens) we will see Barton as the 2nd team MIKE. Maybe it’s the Bobby comparisons driving the narrative?

    LB room:
    1st unit Wagner, Wright, Irvin
    2nd unit Barton, Brooks, Griffin

  11. Hojo says:

    I hope they move on and sign Griffen soon.

    Player A – more talented player, excellent run stopper, good pass rusher, looking for big payday, criticized for lack of work to develop skill, injury history, concern about passion for the game, holding up other moves, threatened to hold out games last year because he wasn’t happy with his contract, isn’t currently happy with his contract offers, expensive

    Player B – above average player, good run stopper, good/excellent pass rusher, looking for pay and culture fit, hard worker, no major injury concerns, all about football, presumably available to sign in near term, no history of hold outs, less expensive

    Sign me up for player B.

    • Troy says:

      The only thing you left out Professor Hojo is the fact that Player A is much younger, and Player B is much older. That significantly plays into things, if they were both the same age sure player B right away but with Clowney being 27 and Griffen being 32 that changes things a lot.

      • Jordan says:

        Not really. Only if we end up paying Clowney long-term.. if its a short term his age doesnt really matter. Just how productive he can be for the team this year

    • HAWKTALKER#1 says:

      I’m sure glad you’re not the GM. Personally I prefer superior players. And that is exactly the reason PCJS are still waiting and will continue to wait until clowney is unavailable.

      • Hojo says:

        I’m glad I’m not the GM too.

        I think it’s more complex than which player is superior though. You have to factor in the potential to not sign either player by waiting, a future holdout if Clowney doesn’t like his contract, the potential for injury, missing out on other players at other positions while you wait, etc. At some point, you have to move on.

        • God of Thunder says:

          Agreed. And part of “superior” player is: “wants to be here”. I’m no longer sure Clowney does.

          • Rob Staton says:

            I wish people would stop with all this ‘Clowney doesn’t want to be here’ stuff.

            It’s very clear that the issue is purely and simply he hasn’t received an offer he believes matches his value. Nothing more, nothing less.

            • James Z says:

              I concur and would add that ‘respect’ plays such a role in super talented (and lesser for that matter) athletes decisions, especially when they at least believe they have some leverage, that it can’t be discounted. The problem that I have with the respect issue is that the criterion is based almost purely on money and not as much as cultural fit, strength of program and coaching staff, and fellow-feeling for others in the locker room.

    • Jeff M. says:

      These supposed workrate/passion concerns with Clowney just feel like a replay of the media labeling Marshawn a distraction and bad locker room guy because he didn’t give them any banal quotes to stuff their stories…

      “Well, we’ve seen him play through injury, have a massive impact on the field, and pretty much single-handedly win us our biggest game of the year, *but does he post enough ‘Rise and Grind’ tweets???!!!*”

  12. drewdawg11 says:

    At this point, Clowney or bust. If he doesn’t want to come back, pocket some cap savings and roll it over to next season. Let’s just roll with the players they have. Collier gets reps to see if he can even play. Irvin, Mayowa, Green and Griffin rotate through pass rushing duties. Reed can prove he’s worth the money with Poona proving he deserves a second contract. The young guys will get their turns as well. I mean, there is no other player on the market who is the type of player who raises the profile. You aren’t fixing the defense with any other one year players.

    • HAWKTALKER#1 says:

      I also disagree with that approach. It is not a Clowney or walk away situation. Clowney is just our best option A. Our pass rush must improve so if option A doesn’t work we must go to option B. Our current roster of pass rushers is just not good enough for where we need to be to be competitive.

  13. Very interesting to think they could move KJ to the SAM. This could be a way to get faster and keep a legend of sorts on the field. KJ doesnt need to be playing 100% of the snaps anymore so this could be a win for everyone. Brooks would just need to show he can handle it.

    • Spencer says:

      It’s a move that makes a ton of sense.

    • GerryG says:

      Gets him off the field in nickel, assuming they play nickel, cant see how keeping KJ on the field to cover third down plays is the right move at this stage of his career.

      I’m still on board with letting him go for more cap room and/or McDougal too. Their 23M of space isn’t much with massive holes to fill (backup QB, DT, NB) plus IR, bonuses, rookies etc

  14. Blue says:

    Hi Rob,

    Just thinking about a few articles you wrote regarding BAMF’s. Would you say any of the players added this year are BAMFs. Thank you for the great work that you do.

    • Spencer says:

      Not Rob, but I think Brooks, Taylor and Lewis all are. Brooks is a great tackler and hard hitter, Taylor’s more of a power rusher with a great bull rush, and Lewis is a self-described “nasty” player who straight bullied some people at LSU.

      None of the other guys seem like BAMFs to me. DeeJay Dallas can be hard to bring down and has good size/strength but I wouldn’t call him a BAMF.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I would say the top two have BAMF potential

  15. HAWKTALKER#1 says:

    Greg Olsen in first virtual team meeting. Good stuff.

    https://youtu.be/dxFex73cPBA

  16. Bigten says:

    A surgery was mentioned stir KJ also, could that be more serious than we realize and played into a little why they drafted brooks?

    • Sea Mode says:

      Absolutely

      Gregg Bell
      @gbellseattle
      ·2h

      Came back from a long bike ride–Gasworks looked great tonight–to learn #Seahawks GM John Schneider told @Softykjr @dickfain on KJR AM K.J. Wright recently had shoulder surgery. “I’m not sure of the timeline of when he is going to be back. Hopefully, he’ll get back on time.”

      • D-OZ says:

        KJ- nothing too serious, minor surgery. per Pete…

        • Big Mike says:

          Translation: It’ll be really close whether or not he’s ready by week 1.

        • HAWKTALKER#1 says:

          Better translation, I’m really not gonna tell you how it is with an injured player. I’m just going to give you the same optimistic stuff I always do and we’ll figure it out when he is actually over his injury and we have a final determination. In the meantime, the glass is more than half full.

  17. Gaux Hawks says:

    i think we’re a getting back to being a blue collar team again. we need to sign clowney and add some more nasty at the DT position, but i think we’re getting back to our roots… bigger, faster, stronger. no whining and no pouting (i’ll forgive clowney as soon as he signs).

    franchise needs next couple years:
    1. clowney two-year deal
    2. nasty DT (free agent)
    3. nickel upside (cheap trade)
    4. quality OT&C (2021)
    5. youth and power at RB (2021)
    6. YAC at WR3 (2021)

    i feel very good about the franchise. unfortunately might need one more year until nirvana v2.

    • Spencer says:

      Maybe even two quality OTs – hopefully Shell surprises us so they just have to focus on adding someone behind Brown.

      • McZ says:

        Talked to a relative who happens to be a Jets addict just yesterday, congratulated him for Fant and a good draft.
        He says that Shell was uninspiring, yet solid. Average in almost any respect.

        This is an small upgrade over Ifedi, but a downgrade to Fant, depending on what we regarded the RT in those heavy sets.

        The good news is, that next years OT draft class is as top notch as this years, if not even better.

        • Rob Staton says:

          Next years OT draft class is not as good or better than this years.

          Things can change in a college season. But there’s no way next years class, currently, looks better at OT. No way.

          • McZ says:

            Withput even thinking too much

            Sewell, Little, Cosmi, Carman, Leatherwood, Eichenberg
            Plus lots of depth… Faalele, Munford, Vrabel, Chewins, Van Lanen, Sills

            Let’s agree on “not too shabby”.

            • Rob Staton says:

              Sewell is a top five pick.

              Cosmi and Leatherwood are overrated.

              Little has to prove himself after injury. Just a projection based on profile.

              Eichenberg could be a R1.

              There’s no way you can compare that, currently, to a draft where SIX offensive tackles went in the first round. Let’s be realistic.

    • HAWKTALKER#1 says:

      Although no one likes waiting for Clowney to make a decision, he hasn’t done anything wrong. He just hasn’t done what we wanted. Why do we continually blame him for that? He’s just trying to get the most money he can, isn’t that what most all the NFL players do? Do you get criticize for asking for too much money at your job. Do you get criticized for asking for a raise when you think you are worth more? We need to give this guy a break as he’s in a business situation right now and there’s not really wronging anyone. There is nothing to forgive.

  18. Kyle T says:

    One thought I’ve had that’s been bugging me is whether they consider KJ’s play one of the major issues to address on the defense. Parameter run stopping and zone drops by linebackers are a big deal and they had such huge issues with wide open receivers on these deeper crossing patterns.

    Is it possible that they are treating KJ like some of the other past vets. Don’t talk about him as the problem, don’t cut him. Let him play out his real…I just wonder how much the Brooks pick reflects on their true view of KJ.

    • Spencer says:

      KJ had a pretty awesome year I thought. Anything Schneider has said on the topic has been positive as well. I understand it might be coach speak but he’s spoke to it multiple times and I don’t think that happens if he doesn’t mean it.

      He can’t do what he used to, I think the move to SLB is a good move, he can keep up with some TE’s and contain the edge. I just think he’s too slow to be isolated in space on the other side.

  19. Hojo says:

    Do you guys think it’s possible they cut K.J. this year and start Wagner, Brooks and Barton?

  20. EranUngar says:

    KJ, together with Britt, was mentioned repeatedly as a possible veteran cap casualty until the Seahawks absorbed his 1M roster bonus in March.

    Once they did it was considered a clear indication he is a keeper.

    However, per ESPN – “John Schneider said starting linebacker K.J. Wright is recovering from a recent shoulder surgery and that he’s unsure of when the 10th-year veteran will be healthy”.

    Releasing KJ under injury would activate his injury settlement that costs more than 1M cap space. It makes their non-move more about timing and less of an endorsement of his roster spot.

    They can now keep him till training camp and beyond to help bring Brooks along with no cap implications or cut him whenever they actually need his cap space.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think you’re reading too much into an injury JS said wasn’t serious.

      He was on the radio talking about him switching to SAM.

      All this tells us is they are more likely to protect KJ and not have him play 93% of the snaps again.

  21. John basicaly answered why they cut Britt and Fluker on KJR show, and why they want to have enough space on their SC.

    He said something like there will be cuts from other teams, there will be good players they like and they dont want to lose them because of not having enough cap space.

    • @DavisHsuSeattlw
      so they are thinking way beyond Griffin & Snacks Harrison- they are thinking about players who are good, can still play- but are too expensive on current deal w current team- they are adding those guys to the pool

    • Sea Mode says:

      I didn’t hear this anywhere. It might be true, but it would just be an interpretation of Davis Hsu, not something JS said.

      He talks about it around the 5:00 mark and it was all about covering themselves in case the draft didn’t go the way they anticipated. It did, so now they have to make those cap moves. He said once they drafted Lewis, they felt like they had drafted a starting RG in the NFL. “He’s just a man.”

    • cha says:

      While I don’t disagree with that strategy – it’s definitely worked for them in the past – it will be very interesting to see if teams make those types of moves to cut or trade veterans at this point. Most of the ‘we drafted his replacement so we can cut him’ moves have been made already, or are coming very soon. The next wave would typically be after you have an OTA and get a look at what you’ve got on the practice field. Since that format is all virtual and live practice work isn’t happening anytime soon, there might not be as many of those cuts and moves.

  22. Relly great interview with JS on Softy show. So many direct questions. And there was the one Rob (and all.of us) wanted to hear (it looks.like its.not.so hard to ask that type of question and bravo for Softy and big minus for all.bit writers) about chances they will eventually sign Clowney.

  23. Jace says:

    Sorry to bring up Field Gulls.. but tied for 6th in their GM Armchair challenge! Thanks to Rob for helping me know what to look for!

  24. Sea Mode says:

    Sounds like JS wasn’t too happy about Reed announcing to the world that he’s back to #90:

    https://twitter.com/GallantSays/status/1256012067770789888

    • It doesnt sound that way at all when you listen it live and when you his.interview with Softy. (They asked him about Jarrans tweet about stumped and approved number). He laughed about it,and was surprised Reed deleted his twitter account.

      • Sea Mode says:

        Actually, it sounded to me just the opposite: JS can laugh about it on the radio (because he doesn’t want to throw Reed under the bus in public), but I think he was probably very unhappy that anyone on the team would do something like that which could alienate Clowney and (even remotely) hurt their chances of re-signing him.

        They’ve gone above and beyond to make it clear how much they respect Clowney and still want him back. I don’t think they appreciated this pettiness from Reed (whether he was just seeking to get paid again for #90 or what) and the fact that he not only deleted that tweet, but right after that his entire Twitter account, tells me that they sent him a pretty clear message that he was hurting the team.

        • I see this situation completely opposite to you and Rob…please tell what I dont read well in these John’s words

          “We gave it a run but you have got to keep going and thats what we have done.”

          Yes the doors are open if something changes…but its not something that is their main goal right now and something they are working on right now (Garofolo said it that two times allready, yesterday was the second time)…

          • Rob Staton says:

            Come on.

            I shouldn’t have to keep telling you how much you are all useless at poker.

            • cha says:

              Clowney’s obviously playing the game too – every time the Hawks tactically leak something, or say something in press, miraculously you get a leak from the Clowney camp.

              Yesterday’s was Pauline getting word Clowney would love to play in a big market in NY for the Jets. That’s a pretty big bluff.

            • HAWKTALKER#1 says:

              Perhaps not everyone?

          • Sea Mode says:

            I guess what you are not reading into is the fact that they haven’t actually moved on and signed anyone else. (no, Irvin and Mayowa don’t count; they are depth/rotation guys) Not only have they not signed Griffen or some other big name pass rusher, but they haven’t even covered their basic depth needs at other positions yet as they wait (QB2, DT).

            And at every available opportunity in the interviews they repeat how great he fit in their locker room, how they understand him taking his time, how the door is not shut and they’ll jump on the chance whenever he’s ready to make a decision, etc. It’s actually quite impressive how much they are bending backwards for him and totally removing any ego just for a chance to retain him.

            The quotes like: “We gave it a run but you have got to keep conducting business and that’s what we have done”, remember were precisely an answer to those who were asking if the Irvin and Mayowa signings meant that they were no longer interested in Clowney. It is a super delicate way of telling Clowney he shouldn’t take those other signings to mean that they are no longer interested.

            Literally everything they have said and done points to them clearly keeping themselves in the mix for Clowney as long as they can, which is apparently until he actually gets an offer from elsewhere, given that they also have his word that he will let them match whatever offer he gets.

  25. Sea Mode says:

    I guess I’m kind of confused: JS keeps saying Jordyn Brooks ran 4.46 at the Combine (and that with just a week of training after injury).

    But Brooks ran 4.54 official.

    Do they really go by their hand times even at that much discrepancy from laser?

    Maybe they got confused with Willie Gay’s 4.46…? 😏

    FWIW, Brooks 10yd split (1.53) was a split second faster than both Kenneth Murray’s (1.54) and Logan Wilson’s (1.54).

    • Kenny Sloth says:

      Why would you ever trust the NFLs laser???

      I hand time everyone from my couch too 👌 👌 👌

  26. Ues,.obviously they believe more their hands time. And they are not the only one. Did you see Mayocks answer on Arnett 40? They had hil in mid 4.40s I think.

    • Sea Mode says:

      Fine. Makes no sense to me though. The human error factor of hand-timing is way bigger than the electronic. I could see them verifying the electronic time on their own after the fact, but just flat out going with their hand time seems strange to me.

      Either way, I have little doubt Brooks could have run in the 4.4s if he had had time to train, so it’s not a big deal.

      • Volume12 says:

        The 40 yard dash at the combine isn’t a true electronic score. It’s stopped at the finish line electronically. Started by hand on the runner’s first movement.

    • Brokejumper says:

      Wouldn’t you be able to get the exact time from extrapolating the time from the video feed? Seems like there should be absolutely no margin for error at all for teams if you really wanted to know. What am I missing?

  27. Sea Mode says:

    Some notes from JS on KJR:
    https://www.iheart.com/podcast/139-softy-and-dick-interviews-27882152/

    – Iupati to compete with Haynes at LG. Damien Lewis they see as starting RG.
    So I guess that means Brown, Haynes, Finney, Lewis, Shell.

    – “If KJ plays WILL or SAM, or however those guys want to do it, they’ll figure it out.”

    – He said they had a wall where they were gonna stay put and take Murray, Queen, or Brooks. All three of them are too talented to pass up and culture changers for any organization.

    – Going after guys with that gritty makeup and ready to carry themselves as pros and compete as men was a theme even before the Coronavirus factor. Just based on self-scouting, seeing that some of the guys that haven’t worked out for us in the past were less ready to be men and compete at the next level.

    – Was asked if KJ’s job is “safe”. He said he’s not sure when KJ will be back from shoulder surgery. (“not a serious surgery”)

    – Wow, Reed saga escalated quickly:
    1. Reed tweets he’s back to 90.
    2. JS says on 710: “I think you’re buying into it [as a hot take], because I don’t remember approving that yet, so I don’t know,” Schneider told 710 ESPN Seattle.“I don’t know where that came from, but yesterday morning it was definitely, something was going on.”
    3. Reed tweets: “I been stamped and approved nothing to approve ❗️ ❗️”
    4. Reed deletes his entire Twitter account.
    5. JS acts surprised [my interpretation], says he wasn’t behind it. “Erik Kennedy does a great job for us, our head equipment guy, they send out tons of numbers, different scenarios, people requesting numbers all the time. I’m not sure what happened there, but we’re not shutting the door on Jadeveon Clowney, and whatever number that is, it’s neither here nor there in my opinion.”

    – DeeJay Dallas you could argue was the best pass protector in the class. JS says that besides QB in the NFL, punt returner is the hardest position to play. Just based on decisions, the way the ball is travelling, people coming after you, etc. Dallas talks about the energy that returning punts give him, has the juice and confidence to do it. “How this guy approaches the game is very impressive.”

    • mishima says:

      That was my best guess on starting 5 OL. Mentioned that it gives them some youth and 2 years of continuity. Who do you think backs them up? Hunt, Pocic, Iupati, Wheeler, Jones, Ogbuehi? Ouch.

      • mishima says:

        * To be clear, I (not JS) mentioned it and that starting 5 gives the *a chance* at 2 years of continuity.

        They need to stabilize the OL and RB units, to ensure availability late in the season. Doomed, last year.

    • Cameron says:

      Wild, that after the comments of continuity on the OL from Pete, that we’re now at the point of projecting 1 returning member from last season, with a max of 2 possible. Not criticizing the moves, just noting the considerable turn around from a couple months ago.

      • It does kind of feel set for the starters except LG. Do you want that youth in there or some continuity. Personally I would go for continuity then Haynes in 2021 but let the best man win.

    • J says:

      So a non answer on the KJ question.

  28. EranUngar says:

    Another interesting take from JS interview:

    “In a unique year, we’ve focused on people that don’t have to have their hands held as much as others would in previous years, so you’re not necessarily throwing a dart at a guy that has a really good upside or is just a height/weight/speed guy,”

    While their picks clearly adhered to their desired physical profile, they were looking for players that already have something to bring to the table without needing every second of every minute of work under NFL coaching staff. Those are not low floor red shirt picks but players with something the Seahawks believe they can use on year one.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think the interesting bit there is the admission that some of their recent draft picks have been disappointing in terms of their preparation.

      • mishima says:

        Leading up to the draft, I kept thinking about Penny’s decision to stop eating at McDonalds: ““That was hard for me. But then I just got serious about football.” Young men and all, but it just bugs me.

        Barton, Blair, Green, Penny, others. Step up or step out.

        • Rob Staton says:

          100%.

          And in fairness they deserve to be criticised for failing to identify players who can’t stay out of flipping McDonalds.

          Especially when you’d got a BAMF like Nick Chubb sat there. How many Big Mac’s does he eat?

          • Big Mike says:

            They do indeed deserve criticism Rob.
            mishima: I don’t think Blair belongs in that category. I don’t see him as “softish”. But if you want to talk disappointing because he reportedly had difficulty learning the playbook, then I’m right there with you.

        • cha says:

          Gary Jennings too. How badly do you have to wash out as a 4th round pick to not even make the roster?

    • Sea Mode says:

      Yes, that was very interesting.

      Basically, he said that the guys who weren’t already on their radar from scouting in the fall, but just popped up because of good testing numbers, were not really considered as much as in previous years.

  29. Rob Staton says:

    https://twitter.com/diannaESPN/status/1256220386720612352

    Seahawks still interested in Clowney. As I’ve been saying. He’s in no hurry. Again, as I’ve been saying.

  30. Zeke says:

    Give him 18 million and be done with it pls

    • AlaskaHawk says:

      Clowney is a better than average defensive linemen who was the best player on Seattle’s line last year.

      However with his injury history, and his lack of production in ending plays (ie sacks and balls batted down), and the cold market price toward him, it would be unwise to pay him 18 million. The reality is that his market price is probably 12 million. So any offer in the 15 million range is generous. Maybe he can get that much – maybe not.

      My advice to the Seahawks, call Clowney’s agent and tell him their offer is withdrawn because they are working on some other deals. But they are open to talking in the fall if they still have money. Let them stew on that for the summer.

      • Rob Staton says:

        That sounds like a really good way to ensure he doesn’t come back to Seattle.

      • AlaskaHawk says:

        it’s a negotiating tactic. Everyone in the business understands that.

        • Kenny Sloth says:

          Imagine belittling someone like that and expecting them to just cave because you’re a supposedly bigger a*hole than them.

          • Kenny Sloth says:

            Like just lying through your teeth to the agent doesnt get you any tangible leverage

        • AlaskaHawk says:

          I didn’t say to chat about what he is worth to Seattle- which is obviously less than he wants. And what I (or you) think he is worth isn’t really relevant.

          I am saying that they should withdraw the offer but leave the door open for talk later.

          That’s not belittling someone = it is simply expressing the reality that if your not willing to sign a contract, things can change.

          • I would agree with Alaska, $18m is to high for a guy who just turns it on and off when he wants to. I would for sure want him back but it has to make sense for both sides. Part of me just wishes they would move on and sign Griffen. I think Clowney also thinks he is worth more than he is just because he was the #1 overall pick. Time will tell but Im starting to get tired of talking about him…lol

            • Kenny Sloth says:

              Yeah but nobody is even talking about valuation! The seahawks are in pole position here with the best deal on the table.

              Be a major a*hole and make him wait all summer to negotiate and maybe that few million he lost becomes a few more and he takes a lesser deal. It’s just not a good way to treat your employees.

          • cha says:

            Clowney: You got any money?

            Schneider: Thirteen.

            Clowney: I’ve never worked for so little! Except once. And that was a very noble cause.

            Schneider: This is noble, sir. Our defensive line is…in tatters. Our salary cap….on the brink of maxation.

            Clowney: Are you a rotten liar.

            Schneider: We need you to avenge the Niners loss from last year!

            Clowney: Your first story was better.

          • Kenny Sloth says:

            Im not even talking about valuation.

            Clowneys camp knows how much space you have to work with and who’s available.

            You’re gonna call this guy up and tell him you’re just shutting down negotiations and looking to pick up someone else because they aren’t caving? Just sign Griffen then. Because either you’re lying about other deals or you’re sabotaging your own franchise by not pushing this window and getting the best players you can. And that’s what Clowney is right now. You dont have the leverage to stall talks. Everyone in the business understands this

            I’d rather work on finding an equitable deal that gives the team flexibility than handcuff ourselves all summer.

            • But the question is how long can you wait. Maybe they have tried this and he isnt willing to cooperate? Clowney can wait forever if he wants but the teams have to move on at some point. They have moved on to a degree buy signing other guys.

              • Even though he is obviously still in the mix if they see a chance to jump back in.

                • Kenny Sloth says:

                  I actually think we are still the favorites to land him and he is still our best option.

                  Everything else is plan B for both parties.

                  They want this to work, but it’s contract details and esp. Length + Guarantees

                  How can you say you want to commit to Clowney after last season.

                  I’d rather pay him closer to 20 for 1 year than guarantee 40 for 5 years or something.

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    The Seahawks are most definitely still favourites.

                    Probably know they’ve got the best offer on the table.

                    That’s why they haven’t moved on.

                  • Kenny Sloth says:

                    I think we should be prepared to wait on this as long as the quarantine lasts. And if he can’t get physicals by July and still won’t sign? Maybe it’s time to move on

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    The physical/medical side is a red herring.

                    Nobody is going to give him the money he wants. His market has been established. Now it’s up to him doing this on his terms. Making a call when he decides.

              • Kenny Sloth says:

                I agree that is the major question. How much longer can Seattle wait? And it’s something they’ve probably begun discussing if I can be bold in that claim.

                I dont think we can say they’ve moved on, I think it’s clear right now that they are very much hoping to bring him back.

                This constant churn of bodies on the DL is sickening though. Let’s build a rotation.

                • I for sure think they want him back and havent moved on but there may be a time when they do and that could be before he signs elsewhere? I also agree with you that we are the favorites still regardless what other media outlets are saying. He wants to be here and we want him here. It appears as if our offers have been higher than other offers.

      • Zeke says:

        Other than the low sack number last season, Clowney seems to be in line with with Dee Ford and Trey Flowers statistically, and they signed for 17 and 18 last year. Clowney did have 1.5 sacks in the 2 playoff games though.

        So given the cap goes up every year, I just figure he’s worth as much as those two. But yeah like you say, the injury risk is likely playing a part in the low offers coming his way,

        Also, how the hell did Frank Clark get Lawrence money last year lol

  31. Stuart says:

    Clowney solution:

    Pay him $1m game plus $1.5m per playoff game.

    That could equal $19m +.

    Based on games be played last year that would be $16m earned.

  32. drewdawg11 says:

    Sometimes I just have to shake my head at some of these can scenarios. I know it’s frustrating to see this not go anywhere, but come on. Also, I think $18 million per season is a decent deal, it’s just not a sweetheart deal. As the cap rises, that number is going to be a bargain, which is probably why they started at $20 million per, as well as the fact that lesser talents are making in that neighborhood. In 2 years, when players are regularly getting that much and more, will we really be upset that he got $18 million? Unless he blows out his hip, probably not.

    • Kenny Sloth says:

      The valuation isnt the problem, it’s his length and guarantees demands In sure of it.

      Otherwise we could’ve tagged him and been good to go

    • Gohawks5151 says:

      I think its a 100% ego but honestly I would feel the same. Clowney is better than Trey Flowers and Olivier Vernon. Therefore he should be paid more. That’s pretty much what Earl was saying too. By taking less it is like admitting that you aren’t better. Its like 2 people at working at a plant, doing the same job and one getting paid more even though he is worse at the job because at the time of hire the economic climate was different. It is true you are better, we know it, you know it but it that is the going rate at this time. It is a hard pill to swallow. So he is seeing if anyone else is paying more. I don’t fault him. In his case he is in a greater position because he knows that Seattle needs him. So he is waiting it out. And so are we

      • Im for sure ego plays a part in this. He is the number one over all pick and a guy like Trey Flowers is going to make more than me, I dont think so. He has plenty of time to wait but the well will run dry at some point for teams. That could be where a team like Cleveland just gives him a bigger one year offer and swoops in at the end to get him as they have the most cap space and are a team trying to win on a rookie QB deal.

  33. Henry Taylor says:

    Thought I had today, do we think they’ll give Ethan Pocic a chance to win the center job? He’s clearly not a guard or a tackle but neither was Justin Britt and he saved his career by moving to center. Not to mention that was Pocic’s best position in college and I can’t recall him ever getting playing time there.

    • Rob Staton says:

      They probably will.

    • Big Mike says:

      Maybe but like most my presumption is that Finney was brought in for the starting job.

      • Cameron says:

        Finney has only a small handful of games started at center (13 starts at any interior position). It would suprise me if they brought him in with the mindset of him being the clear favorite to start, as opposed to a solid addition to the competition there.

        If anything, Finney might provide more value as an interior OL backup, being able to play all 3 positions, as opposed to someone like Pocic who has struggled at guard.

    • AlaskaHawk says:

      Why wouldn’t they use Hunt? He’s already proved himself. Is he still on the roster?

      • Alex H says:

        Lol, everytime someone mentions Hunt, I recall the Eagles game in the WC with him being driven right back into Wilson. Make no mistake, he was the weak link in that game on the OL.

      • Nathan M says:

        I thought Britt showed some increased strength and capability filling in at LG to start last year but then with his injuries wasn’t even an option at C when Britt went down. I remain optimistic for Pocic to find his groove at C this year

    • Sea Mode says:

      Sure, if he wins the job over Finney, so be it. If not, he’s your backup that can play all 3 interior spots. Would be nice though if he all of the sudden found his game at Center ala Justin Britt.

      • I would think for sure he would. Pocic and Finney can play all three spots so if one wins the job maybe the other becomes the back up? Unless Joey Hunt jumps in there and steals it.

  34. LLLOGOSSS says:

    Again, without “teeing up,” when Schneider was asked on KJR about Jarran Reed and #90, he offered: “We’re not closing the door on Jadeveon Clowney.”

    Obviously the implications are obvious regarding what #90 means, but I found it interesting he brought up Clowney during a question specifically asked about Reed.

    As for the stalemate, I’m worried from Clowney’s perspective there may be some disrespect perceived. Granted, if we are the best offer that seems illogical, but often times what I see is that players don’t like taking what they consider a “discount” from a team they’ve previously played for. They’re more apt to take a “prove-it” deal from another club; the sense being “Hey, I’ve demonstrated my value to you, I’ve put it all on the line for you, you of all teams should know my value,” whereas they might not have that same sense of disrespect from another team.

    I think this plays out often when cutting veterans. Unless there’s a clear leverage advantage for the team, or a really strong desire to remain with the club, teams don’t usually ask marquee players to take a pay cut — they seem to prefer to cut them instead, strange as it seems, almost as a sign of respect. It’s not “We think you’re not this valuable,” it’s now, “We can’t afford you,” which states that the player *is* that valuable, even if they can’t pay it. What i see quite often, however, is that same player may end up going elsewhere for much less money, perhaps the same or less than what a pay cut with the original team would’ve amounted to.

    To me, that’s part of the dance of egos involved when dealing with players you have a relationship with. I think it’s easier for players to deal with disappointment from other teams, not a team they’ve already played for.

    If Clowney’s decision comes down to a one-year prove-it deal elsewhere vs a healthy but lower-than-expected long-term offer from Seattle, the acrimony factor could move the needle away from us.

    • Rob Staton says:

      All we need to know, really, is the Seahawks haven’t moved on.

      So whatever we speculate about the standing of negotiations or how either party feels — let’s be clear… the Seahawks clearly think this can still be done. Otherwise Everson Griffen would be signed, a backup QB would be signed, a DT would be signed etc.

  35. LLLOGOSSS says:

    “Obviously the implications are obvious….”

    Nice…