Tuesday notes: Thoughts on the receiver class & Tua

November 19th, 2019 | Written by Rob Staton

Every mock draft is a waste of time now

The Tua Tagovailoa injury is a crushing blow for the player and it feels necessary to highlight that before reflecting on the impact on the draft.

However, it’s also ruined every mock between now and April.

It’s impossible to project what happens. The injury is severe enough to question whether he’ll play or again or ever reach the level he showed previously. The injury itself is bad enough. How do you go back onto the field and take hits after this?

We’re going to enter a really tiresome and annoying period where countless people constantly go over what happens next. You’ll hear numerous reports claiming various things such as ‘he’s 100% healthy’ or ‘teams are worried’.

All the while nobody will really have the answer. Not for a long time anyway.

You can project a player’s stock based on tape, a combine, a pro-day, his athletic profile or scheme fit. It’s impossible to project how an unusual injury like this will impact Tagovailoa and the teams willing to consider drafting him.

As a consequence this affects all the other quarterbacks in the class. People mocking Justin Herbert in the #8-20 range now have to decide whether they move him into the top five. With Miami winning their way out of the #1 pick, you have to make a call on what they do with their selection assuming Tagovailoa isn’t in a healthy enough position to be considered in the top-five.

Of course it won’t stop people arguing on the internet. Miami fans seemed particularly invested in Tua as their great hope so expect many to argue aggressively for still taking him early — even when we have no idea if he’ll be able to play again.

It’s a mess of a situation which will, for the most part, zap a lot of the usual enjoyment out of the draft season. And as I said, none of this really matters because a player’s blossoming career has been jeopardised by a freak injury. I’m just reflecting on the impact it’ll have on draft coverage this year.

This receiver class is legit

For weeks we’ve been discussing the strength of the 2020 draft likely being the receivers. We also know the Seahawks have regularly tapped into a perceived strength of a class during the Carroll/Schneider era.

It’s still far too early to project with any certainty what they will or won’t do in the off-season. The Seahawks are in a promising position at 8-2. There are a lot of unknowns such as the long term futures of Jadeveon Clowney, Jarran Reed, Germain Ifedi and Justin Britt. Seattle also has a reasonable amount of cap space to spend in free agency to fill key needs.

Yet receiver feels like a position they could target. History suggests it’s very possible:

2010 — Selected Golden Tate in R2
2011 — Spent big money on Sidney Rice
2013 — Traded for Percy Harvin
2014 — Selected Paul Richardson with their first pick
2015 — Traded up for Tyler Lockett
2017 — Selected Amarah Darboh in R3
2019 — Traded up for D.K. Metcalf

Pete Carroll has always sought touchdown makers. Along with both lines, receiver is the position they’ve invested a lot of money and picks.

The sheer quality of options in the draft add further weight to the suggestion. I’m starting to wonder, however, whether some of the players are too good to last to the late first round.

The thing that could prevent Seattle taking a receiver with their first pick might be the top players being out of range.

Jerry Jeudy will go very early with some reports suggesting Dave Gettleman in New York views him as the perfect receiver for Daniel Jones and the Giants. Ceedee Lamb could be next off the board after his fantastic 2019 season. Those are the two players you’ll see projected early in most mocks.

However, I think the next crop are being highly underrated by the media.

The league loves speed, suddenness and the ability to create easy separation. Look how early John Ross landed after he ran a 4.2 at the combine. There are a number of players who will perform superbly at the combine next year.

Jalen Reagor ran a 4.41 at SPARQ in High School but reportedly is capable of a 4.29 now. He also jumped a 38.5 inch vertical and can squat 620lbs. When you watch his tape you see everything you want in a receiver. He’s competitive, he can get deep to make huge plays and yet he wins 1v1. I was shocked how natural Reagor was operating in the red zone. He high points the ball, dominates taller cornerbacks and has fantastic, explosive leaping ability.

Henry Ruggs is also touted to run in the 4.2’s at the combine and you see that speed on tape. His catching technique is the best I’ve seen in the draft. He extends his arms to catch away from his body, cupping his hands to the ball. Ruggs, like Reagor, is also better than expected on short-range and red zone throws. He can get deep for the big play and run away from defenders. He’s also competitive and if anything suffers from the vast array of options to throw to in the Alabama offense.

It’s incredible how little attention DeVonta Smith receives. Again, that might be because of the other big name players he’s lined up with. Smith is an absolute maestro on slants — with the quickness to create separation and the long speed to run away from defenders and make massive gains. He wins with speed at the red line, can provide a safety net on crossing routes and he’s been a consistent force all season. He broke Amari Cooper’s Alabama receiving records against Ole Miss.

K.J. Hamler is incredibly dynamic and I spent last night re-watching his tape. His ability to find soft spots in zone, juke his way around tacklers, run downfield to get deep and set-up receivers early in the route to enable him to exploit openings with his speed is top-notch. He’s a vital, crucial playmaker for Penn State and their offense would struggle mightily without his input.

All four players have the speed and suddenness to create easy separation and are very much the modern day receiver. The league isn’t really looking for the big possession receiver types as much these days. It’s all about speed, savvy, getting open and the ability to make plays at every level. The Antonio Brown type is favoured ahead of the Alshon Jeffery.

I’m not sure any of the four players above will necessarily make it to the Seahawks whenever they pick in round one. I think they’ll all have major appeal. Testing will be important of course. If Laviska Shenault shows up at the combine and puts on a clinic, it’ll impact all of the names above.

Yet a lack of first round options on the D-line in this class and the question marks surrounding the offensive linemen will likely mean receivers and cornerbacks going early and often.

There are still a lot of things to play out but don’t be surprised if the NFL loves this receiver class and we see a large number of good players going very early.

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143 Responses to “Tuesday notes: Thoughts on the receiver class & Tua”

  1. BobbyK says:

    I could definitely see them take another WR to pair with Lockett/DK with a pair of defenders taken in the second round.

    • Rob Staton says:

      There’s a LOT of talented skill position players in this draft. If the Seahawks can improve their defense in FA, they will have an opportunity to take a major leap forward in 2020.

  2. Eric says:

    How do you think the new CBA is going to affect the cap?…especially considering the fact that 17 games seems to be legitimately on the table.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I’m not sure. But the cap keeps going up and up. I hope the league doesn’t ruin the NFL with a 17th game. 17 is a weird number of games to play. Why fix something that isn’t broken?

      • Hawktalker#1 says:

        The almighty dollar of course!!

        • charlietheunicorn says:

          They could add between 2-3+ BILLION DOLLARS to the revenue with this deal, coupled to an expanded playoffs. The cap could potentially go up 50 million/team or more when it all comes out in the wash (when you add in gambling).

          • Kelly Orr says:

            Should resign all your cornerstone players to 7 year deals at the current rates then lol. Especially someone like Russell.

  3. Trevor says:

    If the Hawks could somehow add a WR like Smith or Raegor in Rd #1 then use one of the 2nd round picks to trade with TB for OJ Howard or draft a TE like Hunter Bryant they would have an elite offensive skill grouping.

    QB Wilson
    WR Locket, Metcalf. Gordon, Smith or Raegor
    RB Carson, Penney
    TE Dissly, Hollister, Howard or Bryant

    That is a young talented offense going forward.

    I was not sold on the idea of a WR in the first round because of the need on the DL but if they can address it in Free Agency the talent in this draft seems to be at WR so I tend to agree with you Rob that the Hawks may likely try and take advantage of that.

  4. Paul Cook says:

    Tank for Tua. Seems like a tasteless joke now. Yeah, it certainly was a “freak” injury. But I can’t help but feel that people close to him weren’t looking out for him enough, be it Saban, or, from what I can gather, his parents, especially his rabid father. The guy was a pure and selfless competitor who wanted to please. I feel bad for him, and, just as certainly, wish him all the best in his recovery. What a draft shakeup and stunner, like you said.

    At the top of the board, I’m down for a WR, OLman, or DLman, BPA at one of these positions. But like you’ve mentioned numerous times, it doesn’t seem there’s a strong rush end that warrants a first pick relative to the OL and especially WR options. Resign Clowney, work FAcy, and figure out Reed for the DL. Unles a stud OLman falls to us, do the usual in FAcy and development. TE…maybe a 2nd rounder or later. WR makes a lot of sense for the top of the board, as you’ve mentioned.

    It’s wait and see.

  5. Awsi Dooger says:

    Season after season of guaranteed mediocrity. That’s what Dolphin fans experienced under Ryan Tannehill. Only team in the league to win between 6 and 10 games every season from 2009 through 2018. No thought process required. Personnel acquisition or expenditure meant squat. All you had to do was forecast between 7 and 9 wins and it was impossible to be far wrong in either direction.

    By far the most boring stretch of fandom I’ve ever experienced in any sport. That’s why so many Dolphins fans were salivating for Tua, and escape from tedium. Heck, even the guaranteed decline below 6 victories was absolutely exhilarating in comparison to what we’ve experienced since 2012. Ryan Tannehill is the human spare. He’ll jog off the field in complete unconcern. He would have been perfectly content in that 6-10 range for 20 consecutive seasons if enabled.

    Apparently outside fans didn’t realize how maddening it was. I’ll take any version of Tua Tagavailoa

    • Thorson says:

      Obviously a carful medical evaluation will be done on Tua before the draft. It’s important to keep in mind he had the same injury that ended Bo Jackson’s career. Putting the hip back in place is not difficult – so from the standpoint of the surgery, I’m sure it went fine. The problem is whether or not the hip will maintain its blood supply after the injury. Sometimes it does and athletes make full recoveries and sometimes it doesn’t, which is a 100% career-ender. Generally an MRI will allow the doctor to establish whether or not the hip still has a blood supply – but sometimes it takes a full year before the answer is definitive. So, by the time the draft rolls around, his MRI will either show his hip has no blood supply, in which case he’s unfortunately done as a football player, or it will suggest there is a blood supply, but that can still change. Drafting him, even with a clean bill of health, therefore, is a bit of a crapshoot as his MRI can still turn positive. As mentioned above, I wish him all the best and hope that he heals fully. However, if I was a GM, I’d be reluctant to spend a high pick on him because of the uncertainty.

  6. CHawk Talker Eric says:

    The more I watch Jalen Reagor, the more he reminds me of Florida Gators Percy Harvin, and it’s not just the same jersey number. Physically and athletically they’re very similar. TCU don’t use Reagor as much at RB as Florida used Harvin, but I can still see the similarities in stature, speed and agility. I could really get behind him being SEA’s first pick next year.

    I know Jerry Jeudy gets all the love, but I think Ruggs is the best WR in the class. As Rob points out, he has the best hands and catching technique of any WR prospect I can remember. If he were somehow to last to SEA’s R1 pick, it’d be hard not to take him.

    But I think my favorite WR for SEA is Devonta Smith. I think he’d make the biggest impact on the Seahawks offense. Imagine him paired up with Wilson, developing their timing and rhythm. Imagine them working the scramble drill.
    Seems like Smith can get open at will on short and intermediate routes. If SEA were to add him to the roster, I think their 3rd down conversion rate would double.

    • clbradley17 says:

      Great article again Rob. Every week on Tony Pauline’s podcast and when he guests for a few minutes towards the end of the Eagles Journey to the Draft podcast (JTTD), he always brings up at least one or 2 college receivers that get very good separation. Near the end of the LSU-Alabama game 2 Saturdays ago, one of the announcers mentioned that they had talked to WR Jeudy of Bama who said that Smith had the best hands on the team. In Pauline’s most recent Risers and Sliders page, he states “Smith often gets lost in the shuffle to Jerry Jeudy, but he has the size, pass-catching skills, and speed to be a top 50 selection. As reported during Saturday’s game day blog, I have been told Smith will enter the draft once the season concludes.”

      Another player he highlights is Edge/LB Hamilcar Rashed of Oregon St. – 6’4″ 236. “His stats this season are insane and include 60 tackles, 22.5 TFL’s, and 14 sacks. During the win against Arizona State, a victory that leaves the Beavers on the cusp of a bowl berth, he totaled 7/4/2. Rashed is tall, thin, and very athletic. His sacks are as much a result of opportunity as they are big plays, but Rashed continues to impact games. He needs to fill out his frame and keep his quickness, but Rashed has top 100 potential when he enters the draft.”

      Pauline has been raving about Utah LB Francis Bernard as a fast big-play LB all year who was stuck behind our rookie Kody Barton and other seniors in 2018, but he can cover receivers downfield and makes several big plays each game. He’s also commented highly on Minnesota players, including their receivers, OL and CB Antoine Winfield Jr., says he is a great tackler, fast in coverage and can come up against the run. He has 62 tackles, 7 interceptions, 2 sacks and a forced fumble in 10 games this year.

      He’s already praised C Ruiz of Michigan recently, his teammate OG Bredeson was brought up this week both on his podcast as a 2-time Big Ten 2nd team OL and on his risers page above – “Bredeson, the senior leader of the group, is playing better each week. He offers size, football intelligence, and a nice degree of power. Graded as a day three pick coming into the season, some area scouts now feel Bredeson could move into the third round of the draft based on his play this year.” And again on this past week’s podcast he touted GA’s tackles Thomas and Wilson.

      https://www.profootballnetwork.com/cfb-week-12-risers-sliders-oregon-states-hamilcar-rashad-turning-heads/

      • Rob Staton says:

        Glad to see DeVonta Smith getting attention at last. We’ve been discussing him on this site for nearly three months.

        • clbradley17 says:

          Checked out a couple weeks of previous editions of Tony Pauline’s Risers and Sliders, and found another player you’ve highlighted more than once here starting early this season – TE Hunter Bryant of UW.

          “Hunter Bryant/TE/Washington: Though it was a tough loss for the Washington Huskies, it was a bit of a coming out party for Bryant who caught 6 passes for 105 yards and 2 TD’s against the very tough Utah defense. Bryant has 36 receptions this season, averaging 15.5 yards per reception, a testament to his field-stretching and big play ability.

          I gave Bryant a fifth round grade entering the season simply due to the fact he wasn’t the featured tight end for Washington last season. Considering his play this year and the ability shown, a second day calling of his name is in line for Bryant if he enters the draft.”

          https://www.profootballnetwork.com/cfb-2019-week-10-risers-sliders-tony-pauline/

          Also looked into Antoine Winfield Jr. who actually plays safety for Minnesota, but projects to safety or CB according to a few sites. Had 2 interceptions against Penn St., 7 for the year, and was lost to injury game 4 in both 2017 and 2018. Tony mentioned in his last podcast Minnesota coach PJ Fleck has almost as much interest from the NFL as Lincoln Riley of Oklahoma. More on S/CB Winfield here:

          https://nachmanyfootball.com/2019/11/10/2020-nfl-draft-prospect-preview-minnesota-saf-antoine-winfield-jr/

  7. RWIII says:

    Rob: Totally agree with you about staying at a 16 game schedule. In my opinion right now it’s perfect. I hate the idea of going to a 17 game schedule. But unfortunately money is the name of the game. The owners and the commissioner tell everyone that player safety is number one. Then then they go out and add another game to the schedule.

    • Kelly says:

      I think the caveat to that extra game is taking away two pre-season games though. Not that the starters play much.

      • Brashmouse says:

        I would actually prefer a 17 game schedule or 18 game and up the active roster to 60 man with the money.

      • Mike says:

        Not sure how practical this is…but if they remove two of those exhibition games.. it would be interesting if the last 10 cuts or so from every team could be brought together and made into a “league” that plays a few games in September against each other so the fringe players would have a chance to show their stuff..

  8. Dale Roberts says:

    I’m not convinced that Trey Flowers has the coverage skills to be a starting corner for a Super Bowl champion. Add to that the disaster that an injury to Griffin would visit upon our defense and you have a strong case for investing in another high level corner. It has to be a rookie because veterans have to unlearn/learn technique and they’re expensive mistakes. A rookie who comes in and grabs the job in years one or two would make us much more solid. Flowers as the primary backup at corner and safety would make me feel all warm inside.

    Shaun Wade is currently ranked as the 10th or 12th best CB and would make a wonderful second round investment after we take Isiah Wilson with our first pick and add Bud Dupree in the off season.

    Myles Bryant. I know we don’t have a place for him and I realize he doesn’t have glittering physical measurements but somebody is going to get a gem. He’s the Will Dissly / Jacob Hollister of defensive backs, a baller that just makes your team better.

    • Tony says:

      A CB2 with a 77 passer rating against is very solid. Everyone questioned shaq in his 2nd year. I think tre will be fine. Better pass rush will help for sure. But they should definitely nab a CB in the draft for the sake of depth.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I don’t know who is ranking Shaun Wade as the 10th or 12th CB but that is a terrible projection. Wade is a R1 talent.

    • Largent80 says:

      Flowers is playing well IMO. I see plenty of attitude from him this year as well. For a developmental player from safety, I don’t see what the problem with him is. He’s improving.

      Obviously they need to find a capable slot CB.

  9. Tony says:

    I love the fact that the consensus is 17 games means only 3 preseason games! So that will drop that meaningless 4th preseason game! As if teams wont just sit starters after 2 preseason games now. Product takes a hit for sure, but who cares! Obviously Thursday night games are sloppy, yet we still watch.

    How about expanding rosters to say 70. And 20 practice squad. So you can develop more players and rest guys more or create bigger rotations and more sub packages/specialists.

    Theres a lot the NFL could do to help its product, but billionaire owners gonna billionaire….all about that dollar.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Get rid of all of pre-season. It’s awful.

      • bv eburg says:

        Just curious,
        Seeing for months the talk range from dropping to 3 preseason games to getting rid of preseason altogether……
        Take the Seahawks for example. How do you find the next Doug Baldwin, Poona Ford, Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor etc etc? Free agents, late round picks, position switches from college. How do they get a chance to shine in game conditions to either make the team or at least audition for practice squads?

      • Tony says:

        No matter how they alter preseason, coaches will adjust to make it lame. So yes, riding it would be nice. But then are you ready for a 20 game season?! 🤣

  10. I like the idea of drafting a receiver first, especially since that is likely where the value will be. Although we survived the fourth quarter and overtime without Lockett, I think our O would be severely disadvantged by a lengthy absence, as no other receiver has the quickness and shiftiness to create easy separation and move the chains. If we have Lockett and draft pick, that should really open up the offense and be a great compliment for Metcalf. If one of them gets hurt, at least they’ll have that type of receiver still on the field.

    • Dale Roberts says:

      In 2019 I liked the idea of a defensive lineman in a year where the DL was the clear strength of the draft. Hmmm… did we force the issue? When it’s our turn first round receivers may be gone but they may have cleared the way for another positional talent to drop and I think we have more demanding needs. That said, if a 4.2 receiver with skills falls into your lap you should probably just say “thank you”.

  11. Kenny Sloth says:

    In other news: former Oregon Duck TE Colt Lyerla is in prison for strangling his girlfriend and possession of heroin.

  12. Kenny Sloth says:

    If Shenault even sniffs the 4.4’s there’s no way Pete isn’t taking him.

  13. charlietheunicorn says:

    What is a bigger need a WR, TE, RB or CB/S on the seahawks?

    TE and RB seem like slightly bigger needs than WR or CB/S right now.
    I guess I should keep in mind who has the greatest upside in any of the positions mentioned.
    Perhaps a combo player such as CHAWK mentioned above, Jalen Reagor, could fit the bill better than a straight up WR or RB. Harvin had off the filed stuff he wasn’t good at dealing with, but get him on the field…. amazing. I have no idea what Reagors background is like.. personality wise and whether he would be a fit in Seattle.

  14. DC says:

    Pretty interesting RB class this year. Looks talented & deep. If Seattle waits until the late rounds/udfa to grab one keep an eye out for former (academic suspension) Michigan RB Chris Evans should he declare. “Mad athletic” & in the Hawk wheelhouse for size at 5’11”, 216lbs (though he looks a little smaller than that to me). Shifty, quick with some power. Low mileage. And he comes with a requisite red flag that all of our best PC era RBs have had.

    • Nick says:

      I love Zack Moss. Can definitely see him as one of Pete’s guys.

      • Sea Mode says:

        Me too, and my (on-field) comp and draft range for him is Kareem Hunt in R3. But Jim Nagy replied to someone on Twitter the other day saying “Absolutely no way he lasts to R3”. I know Jim tends to oversell his Senior Bowl guys a bit, but still, the forcefulness with which he said it gave me pause.

        • Nick says:

          I would have absolutely no problem using one of our R2 picks on him. Seattle can never have too many good RBs—and clearly, Penny is not good enough to direclty compete with Carson at the moment.

  15. clbradley17 says:

    Very good video breakdown of Clowney’s domination of the 49ers posted a few hours ago.

    Film Breakdown: Seahawks DE Jadeveon Clowney Wrecks 49ers in Prime Time

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zXIh4m5p8c

  16. Sea Mode says:

    How desperate are we…?

    Ian Rapoport
    @RapSheet

    The #Redskins have cut pass-rusher Noah Spence, source said. The former #Bucs 2nd round pick heads to waivers.

    Nov 19, 2019

  17. Sea Mode says:

    One that got away…?

    Ian Rapoport
    @RapSheet

    From the transaction wire: Free agent RB Alex Collins is no longer suspended and eligible to sign. He’s also healthy from a broken leg and can work out for teams.

    Nov 20, 2019

  18. Largent80 says:

    When you have Russell Wilson in his prime, keep re-stocking the shelves because this won’t last forever.

    • Eburgz says:

      I just wish we could protect the guy better.
      I’m all for adding weapons but Russell hasn’t needed a star studded wideout group to do his thing (or a great O-line either for that matter as a counter).

      I’d love for us to go out and get Trent Williams in the off-season. That dude is a beast and he can play right tackle and left tackle if needed. Ideally he gets released but likely have to trade for him. Ifedi is irrelevant at that point and we can move on with the best tackle duo in the league. While we’re at it we should trade Penny for Darius Slay. Then scoop up Jonathan Taylor (or one of the other top guys like dobbins/moss) in the draft. I’d be cool with another wide receiver if the right guys is there but we’re already deep there if Gordon works out past this season.

      • Rob Staton says:

        The protection has been good this year.

        • Eburgz says:

          It’s been ok. Look at the beginning of that 49er game, I thought we wouldn’t be able to get a pass off all night. Granted they got it together and the 9ers are good on the DL. I was at the rams game and Russell was under pressure half his drop backs. Saints and Ravens games weren’t much better.

          Russels movement from within the pocket and his scrambling ability have masked protection issues for years. He’s been even better at evading pressure in the pocket this year. Anyone have the stats for most pressured qbs in the league? I’d guess Russ is right up there in the top third. He’s the 7th most sacked qb. I know he get himself into trouble holding onto the ball for too long but more often than not he’s evading pressure.

          Don’t understand why anyone would pushback to signing Trent Williams. We will have needs at tackle if we don’t resign our own mediocre tackles and he’s one of the best in the world at what he does. Not to mention he’s a perfect fit as an absolute mauler in the run game.

          • Rob Staton says:

            RE: the Niners game, we’re talking about the best DL in the league. It’s a row of top-15 or R1 picks. Our line did better than most against that unit.

      • McZ says:

        Hawks OL in 2020

        – Duane Brown nearing his career end, a shadow of his former self; Jones haven’t played a snap at T
        – No solution at LG outside of a further crap signing or keeping Iupati; hopefully Phil Haynes will step in
        – Britt being injured, with availability in question and too costly as a reclamation project, Hunt too small and Pocic being injury prone, too
        – Fluker as a half a season guy, no depth beyond Jones playing G
        – Ifedi and Fant both on the road to FA, both possibly gone

        And here we are, drafting a minimum of two OL players, preferrably at T, adding a veteran or two, too.

    • Matt says:

      Yep, exactly. It’s why I’d like to see urgency with reloading at WR/playmakers and spending big $ on defense. We don’t have the luxury of hoping a 3rd-5th Rounder can develop in 3 or 4 years on Defense. We need immediate impact at a couple positions.

      1. Buy Pass Rush
      2. Manufacture a functional OL
      3. Get cheap playmakers on offense
      4. Keep the running game humming
      5. Don’t get cute in R1. Our 1st rounders need to start giving us more.

  19. EranUngar says:

    The Seahawks are (very likely) a 12-4 team or better. The only rookie getting ample play time is DK and talented others can’t break into the roster (Coullier, Barton, Blair). They have enough cap space to keep the key players they may want to hold on to (Clowney/Reed/Ifedi etc.) and add a key piece or two.

    Considering all the above plus the 9 draft picks in 2020, 5 in the first two days, could this be the year to trade up for a game changer rather than the usual trade down???

    • cha says:

      If we’re talking about trading premium draft picks I’d prefer the approach the Hawks have taken – trade them for established players rather than unproven ones with talent but no NFL production.

      That said, it should be noted the Hawks do trade up to get impact players, just not in the first round (Reed, Lockett, Dickson, Metcalf).

    • Simo says:

      I think the price in terms of draft capital is just to high to trade up into the top half of round one, but much more manageable in rounds 3-7. No team wants to miss out on drafting the next Kahlil Mack and having a cost controlled star player for the next five years, even if they aren’t always sure fire stars.

      There’s probably a much better chance of the Hawks trading their R1 pick for an established veteran pass rusher they really like. Teams are more willing to make this trade since the player usually is near the end of their contract and wants big money on the next contract.

  20. Brazilian Hawk says:

    Given how well Russell Wilson is passing, extra talent at WR puts more points for Seattle than any other position except for pass rushers.

    Imagine Russ passing to Lockett, Metcalf and another 4.3 40 top shelf talent dog?

    • Brazilian Hawk says:

      My overall strategy would be:

      Re-sign Clowney
      Re-sign Ifedi
      Re-sign Woods
      Re-sign Jefferson or Reed if their FA market is lukewarm.
      Sign speed rusher (Fowler, Dupree, Griffen, Ngakoue)
      Cut Britt and Dickson.
      Dip on WR, CB and DL early in the draft.
      IOL and DT mid rounds

      • Sea Mode says:

        I could get behind that plan.

      • Matt says:

        Love this plan. I will add a bit more detail regarding the Draft:

        WR: that can stretch a defense. I really want Ruggs or Reagor. I think they are perfect fits. I don’t know how you stop a Lockett-DK-Ruggs trio. I mean…we will run for 200 yards a game because you simply have to play 2 safeties off the LOS – no way an opposing defense can let you get free shot plays multiple times a game.

        CB: a guy that PICKS the ball off. We need turnover makers.

        DL: Pass Rush ability is numero uno. I don’t care if they can only play on passing downs. We need more speed.

        I will also add RB. I think we need to plan on life after Carson – I would like to see that in R3-4. With RW in his prime, I think it is foolish to spend Cap $ on the RB position.

        Love the plan. I think you can find big body DTs and some decent IOL in the mid-late rounds – there would be no rush to start/play them right away. Target some higher upside guys knowing they have time to learn.

      • Simo says:

        I also support the plan!

        Clowney is a must re-sign at this point, and Jefferson or Reed as well (maybe both if the price is right!) Also really like what Al Woods has brought to the team this year. No question we need an established edge rusher though, and either of those four names could fill that role nicely!

        Really like Britt as a player, but his cap hit coming off of a serious injury is probably to rich. Dickson is a no brainer cut as well. I like the idea of re-signing Ifedi after putting so much time/effort into him at this point.

        This leaves them wide open to use their considerable draft capital to add top talent at really any position!

      • Sean says:

        I don’t think we should resign Woods. Woods will be 33 next year. Big bodies like him are relatively easy to find on cheap deals.

    • Eburgz says:

      We literally have that. At least it’s been reported that Josh Gordon ran a 4.3 40 November 10th 2017 after he had been out of the league for nearly two years.

  21. Resigning all those guys is a lot of money. I know we have a good amount of cap space but we also have a potential extension for Carson and Shaq Griffin coming in the near future if they want. I just wouldnt want to use all of it as its nice to have flexibility for potential trades and or waiver claims. Not saying I dont like the plan but just looking at the other side.

    • Sean says:

      I don’t think we should resign Carson unless we can get a discount for him. If we have to pay him like a top 5 RB, I would pass. I think teams should only pay extremely elite RBs like Gurley/Barkley. I don’t mind letting Penny get a shot to start, and supplementing that with another draft pick at RB.

  22. cha says:

    Hawks activate Ed Dickson and waive Jamar Taylor.

    Ugo time?

    • Logan Lynch says:

      Finally! Might be a few growing pains, but there are going to be some exciting plays too. I also wouldn’t mind seeing Diggs play a bit of nickel with Blair at FS. The dime package with Blair, Ugo, Diggs, McDougald? Sounds fun to me.

    • WALL UP says:

      PC is an outstanding DB coach that gets overlooked at times. He was learning his personnel, and coaching up players in the process. He will always place those in the opportune places to succeed, and make the team better.

      Ugo in the slot was the initial thought process. But, he realized that Ugo needed a bit more seasoning. Now it is Ugo time. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Blair in as well in dime packages, and covering TEs in nickle situations.

      • It could be Ugo time or like I suggested earlier. They go Diggs and McDougald at safety in base then move Diggs to the slot and bring in Blair at safety when in nickel. It will be one of the two.

        • WALL UP says:

          I think Diggs has found his home in the back in @ FS. That communication with B-Mac is going too good to change up. He’s the closest thing to ET that they have. No need to change that.

          Blair is best served closer the LOS. He has done well in covering TEs, due to his length, and ultimately, he may end up @ SS after a year or two. Having him play against TEs and RB’s, gives more speed and cover skills than the LBs presently.

          It’s going to be fun to watch.

    • Volume12 says:

      Thank god. He’s a 2 pack of a**.

    • Eburgz says:

      What an upgrade to the roster! I really like Dickson. He put the team on his back last year during the Cheifs game on a couple different plays with his sheer want to.

      Wish Jamar the best but glad he isn’t the starting nickel corner anymore. Dude was a bit of a liability out there at times.

  23. What do people think our OLine will look like next year? Ifedi, Lupati, and Britt could all be gone. That could be a lot of turnover. Brown is on the 18th hole and we just arent sure about Fluker.

    • Is Jamarco Jones going to be a starter? Is Phil Haynes going to get in there? Maybe Pocic or Hunt at center? Will they look to resign George Fant? So many questions to answer about the OLine.

    • Volume12 says:

      I think they should try and hold onto some of those vets while they groom a couple picks behind them.

    • mishima says:

      Brown, Haynes, Hunt, Fluker, Fant/Jones. Pocic will try to compete at C/RG, but team should pick up a vet in free agency.

    • cha says:

      Brown is on the 18th hole

      Why are fans trying to give Brown a Viking funeral? So perplexing to me.

      just arent sure about Fluker

      He’s on the books for $3.5m next year. He’s fine.

      If they do want to keep Ifedi would 3 years $20 get it done?

      No

      • DC says:

        I’ve been critical of Ifedi’s play in the past & call it how I see it. It was warranted imo. He’s playing his best ball now & I hope he is retained. I don’t want to start the RT search all over again. Looking at all of the chump OL that get big deals I expect Germain to get paid. If it comes down to a position group cap I’d consider parting ways with Britt to keep Ifedi & hopefully Fant too. I think Pocic, Hunt, Haynes or player X can take over at C if need be.

        Continuity on the OL is big & this is a group I can live with. Keep drafting DBs and RBs and save the money there. Spend the going rate to keep Russ upright & keep drafting more to develop.

        • Completely agree with continuity. Thats where the Ifedi situation is tricky. He is playing better but still too many penalties. I just feel like he will test free agency and get coin from someone who will price is out.

          • Chawk Talker Eric says:

            Ifedi has 7 penalties this season. There are 12 other OTs in the NFL with as many or more, including top players like Bakhtiari (10), Tunsil (11), Whitworth (9), Taylor Lewan (9), Taylor Decker (7) and Brandon Scherf (7).

            Would it be better if Ifedi had fewer penalties? Yes of course. But is he a liability because of them? Not at all. The tricky thing about resigning him is if he gets a an offer SEA aren’t keen to match.

            • McZ says:

              Ifedi is no liability because of penalties.

              When the Seahawks resigned Justin Britt, he was considered a clear and present team strength. If we resign Ifedi, we must be sure he will develop into a cornerstone of this OL, much in the same mold as Duane Brown did when he came over.

              I’m sorry, but this is completely out of reach.

              Currently, he is not trusted to keep his side clean without continuous TE or RB assistance. Still, vs SF, three of five sacks and numerous pressures came over his side. The double fumble is a classic. And this was his best game according to PFF and ESPN. When above average players have a good day at pass block, they pile up a 90+. Ifedi manages something just above 70. In a contract year!

              So, “not a liablity” will not guarantee a 10m+ contract. Even 7m are a stretch, and at no point should this walk without picking a hedge in the draft.

              And as Rob will say, this is “obsession with Ifedi”… I was very lonely defending him in 2017, pointing out bad G play next to him. I really wanted him to kill it, but he didn’t. Furthermore, I’m not saying we should forget about resigning him. But the price tag should reflect value.

              If we miss out, we should try to sign Vaitai or Malaita from the Eags. Next up!

              • Rob Staton says:

                I’m starting to get a bit tired of this. It’s bordering on fake news. Every team lines a TE up on the right side frequently. Likewise a team’s top rusher often attacks from the left side of the line, so any extra support is usually warranted. You’re complaining about the team giving up some pressures against the BEST D-line/pass rush in the league.

                Oh no! Ifedi didn’t pitch a shut-out. Come on.

                And your even complaining about the ‘double fumble’ — how on earth can anyone criticise Ifedi there? How many times has he essentially had to catch a fumble and deal with that? Probably never in his life.

      • Brown will be 35 next year, that is what 18th hole means.

        Fluker should be fine to keep but he misses games.

        3 for 20 may be a little low. Maybe 3 for 24. I think for sure if they resign him it would be a three year deal like Britts and not four.

    • Eburgz says:

      My hope would be like this

      D. Brown
      P. Haynes/ Jones (one of the young guys steps up. Simmons could be an option too)
      Britt (restructured contract)/Pocic (if he comes back ok from his back injury and britt won’t restructure)
      Fluker
      Trent Williams (ideally we steal him for a R2 or 3 pick like we did Clowney)/ Ifedi

      Looks like a nasty bunch on paper and not too much turnover. Iupati has been fine and I’d be ok with a small 1 year contract for him also.

      • Largent80 says:

        Well, let’s just get through THIS year and worry about O Line after the season is done. Everyone will have a better idea of how it’s going to shape up. Heck, there’s 6 games left and playoff possibilities.

        It’s way too early to speculate. we haven’t seen much of Jones or Haynes.

  24. Denver Hawker says:

    How many bad contracts do the Hawks have?

    I’m looking at Lockett Brown, and Mcdougald as great deals already. Britt maybe, but still good value. Wagner 3rd year perhaps? Hard to find.

    Really love how Schneider has set this team up for long term success by avoiding bad deals and now in position to buy what they want and draft depth with abundance of picks to maneuver. Also expect to see a few more comp picks roll in this year.

    • WALL UP says:

      Agreed. I wouldn’t count Britt out for returning on a restructured team friendly 2yr deal, if his reconstructive surgery goes well. Joey can play until Britt is strong enough to reclaim his starting role. Britt is a warrior, and is still young (28) for an center.

  25. Volume12 says:

    Shrine game is loaded on the O-line!

    Rhode Island’s Kyle Murphy, Penn St’s Steven Gonzalez, Utah’s Darrin Paulo, NC’s Charlie Heck, Auburn’s Jack Driscoll to name a few.

    Minnesota WR Tyler Johnson also gonna be there.

    Keep an eye on Murphy and Gonzalez Seahawk fans.

  26. Kingdome1976 says:

    As Greg alluded to earlier on the O-line, I think he might have a point. Wide receiver does indeed seem like a likely target in the 1st but do we sacrifice the O-line for another offensive target if indeed we let go of say 2 starting 0-linemen? What if we decide to let go of say Britt & Fluker/Iupati/Ifedi?

    I am just asking if maybe the WR depth is so good that we can get away with drafting an OL prospect with our first pick. Then pick a WR in the second, and maybe a TE as well.

    This scenario assumes we bolster our D-line in free agency, and end up letting go a few starting O-linemen.

    • It will for sure be interesting to watch this play out in the off season. We can all discuss it and its great debate but none of us really know what is going to happen. Feels like Phil Haynes can maybe replace Lupati but do you keep both Britt and Ifedi? Or maybe one of the two? Just feels like you dont want to lose both. Tough decisions for John and Pete as you dont want to destroy the continuity they have built.

    • Rob Staton says:

      People are missing the point.

      It’s a fantastic looking WR class. It’s not a fantastic looking OL class.

      There are plenty of big name OT’s but virtually all of them come with major question marks.

      This team righted the OL ship by investing in proven veterans. Going back to starting raw, unpredictable rookies would be a departure from their current plan and likely lead to a regression in performance.

      They don’t need to replace Brown and Jamarco Jones might be slated for that anyway.

      If they lose Ifedi and Fant they might sign another veteran.

      I’m not sure why the OL keeps being brought up.

  27. After Watching Zack Moss tear up UCLA the other day he just feels like a future Seahawk. If you knew that you could draft Moss would you then trade Penny in the off season for maybe a 3rd rounder?

    • Trevor says:

      I really like Moss too but I wonder if he will have the explosive traits testing that the Hawks look for in their RBs.

    • Denver Hawker says:

      I’ve loved Moss since last season. Definitely a Seahawk RB. If Penny is traded, then yes. But I don’t want a Penny traded unless it’s for an R2.

      Without a trade, Unfortunately, I think his price tag will be too rich. He’ll be gone by the R3 pick and I prefer other priorities: WR, TE, DT. We also don’t yet know what Homer brings.

      Hawks will draft an RB with Prosice gone, but likely later than Moss.

      • Paul Cook says:

        Do you honestly think we could get a 2nd round pick for Penny? The guy’s done next to nothing for going on two years. I don’t see it. I’d take a 2nd for him in a heartbeat. Then just roll the dice on another back.

        • Denver Hawker says:

          Not at all. He’s more valuable right now to the Hawks than anyone else. They wouldn’t trade him for a 3rd at the deadline. Doubt they get that in the offseason. Still think they draft a back just not early.

          • mishima says:

            You going to the UW / Colorado game? I was thinking about it, but 8 p.m. start too late for me.

            • Denver Hawker says:

              Definitely past my bedtime and will be cold too- but will brave it anyway. Look forward to seeing Shenault and Bryant again.

  28. WALL UP says:

    What about the notion that they stay true to their board, and take best player available. JS & Co have their type of grit players listed prior to the draft. If there is an anomaly in the case of Metcalf that mandates a deviation from the board thing will go well.

    They probably continue with their trade out of the 1st Rd again in 2020. Perhaps having (3) picks in the 2nd & 4th Rds.

    One player that may fit the mold that their looking for between those Rds is Devin Duvernay WR/OW from Texas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZdPeGmEy3c

  29. DC says:

    Any Coug fans out there have love/intel for WR Easop Winston Jr?

    • Mac says:

      Great hands, decent speed but route options are limited in WSU’s offense. A near majority of routes are off of mesh, curl, wheel, verts etc. The scheme requires the wide recovers to be athletic but not necessarily great route runners.

  30. Mac says:

    I don’t expect any huge offensive line moves. Maybe Britt and Iupati will be moved on from depending on the performance of the backups. Iupati is the easier one to see us moving on from, unless he took another small deal. I think Ifedi will be resigned at around 10-12 mil apy. He’s not great or impressive but he’s not a hindrance to our offense.

  31. charlietheunicorn says:

    Noah Spence / 6’2 250+

    Off the field concerns galore. He was not especially remarkable in the combine… he was the 14th rated SPARQ at EDGE in the 2016 draft cycle. He was slightly above average at athleticism. In all honesty, this doesn’t scream like a guy who is explosive or even someone they would be interested in… with the “off the field” baggage. His production in the NFL has also been mediocre for a 2nd round pick.

  32. CaptainJack says:

    I’d like to see Amadi get another chance at nickle corner. And I’d like to see Blair get rotated in with McDougald just to give him experience.

  33. charlietheunicorn says:

    Hawks activate Ed Dickson and waive Jamar Taylor. ~cha

    John Clayton said he heard that expect Ugo to be the starting nickle, but in certain looks or situations they will bring in Blair at FS and move Diggs down to nickle…. however, they are still playing a decent number of snaps in the base 4-3, so we are talking about 30-35% of the total snaps where this will even be an issue. It could also be to slow roll Blair into the starting job next season and help keep current duo of SS/FS fresh for the end of the season.

    What was weird was Carroll mentioned multiple times…. “ops” for opportunities for the young guys in his press conference. He wanted to get them more of them, so that lead to the rumor of Blair 10-15 snaps a game Not trying to have too many young guys on the field at the same time, to limit total busts of the defense while they are learning on the job.

  34. Paul Cook says:

    I just hope we quickly develop some consistency in our secondary regarding personnel/positions and substitution patterns. I can’t believe that endless tweaking this late in the season is a good thing when we’re fighting for the best playoff position possible.

  35. Paul Cook says:

    Here’s Michael Renner’s top 5 prospects at each offensive position list, for what it’s worth…

    Quarterback

    1) Joe Burrow, LSU
    2) Tua Tagovailoa*, Alabama
    3) Justin Herbert, Oregon
    4) Jacob, Fromm, Georgia
    5) Jacob Eason, Washington

    Running Back

    1) Travis Etienne, Clemson
    2) D’Andre Swift, Georgia
    3) Zach Moss, Utah
    4) Jonathon Taylor, Wisconsin
    5) Demetric Felton, UCLA

    Wide Receiver

    1) Jerry Jeudy, Alabama
    2) Ceedee Lamb, Oklahoma
    3) Laviska Shenault Jr., Colorado
    4) Henry Ruggs, Alabama
    5) Tee Higgins, Clemson

    Tight End

    1) Hunter Bryant, Washington
    2) Jared Pinkney, Vanderbilt
    3) Cheyenne O’Grady, Arkansas
    4) Brycen Hopkins, Purdue
    5) Albert Okwuegbunam, Missouri

    Offensive Tackle

    1) Andrew Thomas, Georgia
    2) Tristan Wirfs, Iowa
    3) Alex Leatherwood, Alabama
    4) Josh Jones, Houston
    5) Jedrick Wills Jr., Alabama

    Interior Offensive Line

    1) Netane Muti, Fresno State
    2) Tyler Biadasz, Wisconsin
    3) Creed Humphrey, Oklahoma
    4) Calvin Throckmorton, Oregon
    5) Logan Stenberg, Kentucky

    https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2020-nfl-draft-top-five-players-at-each-offensive-position-college-football-week-13

  36. Bigten says:

    Rob, I know you haven’t been as high on Epinosa, but what round do you think he SHOULD, be drafted?

  37. Coleslaw says:

    Bold prediction for the Hawks game:

    With Lane Johnson out, Ugo gets a sack

  38. Sea Mode says:

    Cool way to look at it. We’ll see if the 49ers are for real down the stretch.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/SandoNFL/status/1197276265406853120

  39. Sea Mode says:

    Good. Alton Robinson headed to Sr. Bowl.

  40. JJ says:

    What do you guys think about Weaver from Boise State? Potential edge option in late 1st or later?

    • WALL UP says:

      Green, Collier, & not to mention Clowney all play that 5tech role. Weaver doesn’t appear to display traits of a Leo.

    • Rob Staton says:

      He’s playing extremely well. However, he used to be 300lbs and has slimmed down. I’m not sure how athletic he is. How much upside he has. Testing will be big for him. Seattle needs some twitch.

    • Volume12 says:

      I like Weaver a lot. Is probably best suited for a 3-4 defense though.

  41. cha says:

    So, it’s been about 3 full weeks and not a peep from the NFL.

    No discipline forthcoming for PC saying TT has had been dealing with a shoulder injury all year, but him never appearing on the injury report?

  42. Volume12 says:

    Oh. Look at that. One of those D-lineman from Michigan has the highest pressure % in the country. Also is 2nd behind Chase Young in highest pass rush win rate.

    I think I mentioned liking these guys before. 🤔

  43. JJ says:

    Seems like that 5tech role is easier to find this year.