Before I publish an updated horizontal board, I wanted to share some notes I made after listening to Pete Carroll’s 40-minute press conference today.
Some interesting hints?
Carroll was asked about the center position and he went on to talk about Austin Blythe. What he said was interesting for a few of reasons.
He mentioned they’d not had a lot of success with taller players (6-5) and they were going to try something different. Blythe is 6-2 1/8. He also raised Blythe’s wrestling background, unprompted, and spoke about its importance.
Maybe this is just me doing the whole 2+2=5 thing, especially after yesterday’s mock. I couldn’t help but think, though, that Tyler Linderbaum was an exceptional wrestler in High School. If you look hard enough, you’ll find a video online of him beating another former Iowa offensive lineman Tristan Wirfs in a contest. Wirfs had a significant size advantage.
Linderbaum is also the exact same height at Blythe — 6-2 1/8. While a lot has been made of Linderbaum’s arm length (31 1/8 inches) he actually has longer arms than Blythe (30 1/4).
It might be nothing but it’s plausible Blythe is a hedge for Linderbaum, who I think will be available later than many people assume due to his scheme-specific size and lack of testing.
The other thing I picked up on was when he discussed Blythe’s experience and how it will help given he’ll be playing with a new quarterback and guard. Carroll checked himself, adding the word ‘maybe’. He then said Phil Haynes would be competing with Gabe Jackson at guard.
Again, I fully accept I could be reading too much into this. But it made me wonder whether a viable scenario in Carroll’s mind, that he maybe let slip here, is the strong possibility of a young QB and guard joining the team — and maybe starting quickly.
Increasingly I’ve wondered if they would be seriously interested in Zion Johnson. He has everything they look for — a superb frame, incredible explosive traits, great agility, long arms and intelligence. If they end up with a pick in the teens, either because they’ve moved down or dealt D.K. Metcalf, Johnson could be selected.
It’s not the biggest need in the world but I can imagine them thinking — great player, potential cornerstone.
It also raises the prospect of the team possibly finding a way back into the late first to draft a quarterback, or taking one in round two.
I don’t think that picture with the Kiffin’s, Carroll and Matt Corral was some sort of elaborate smokescreen. I think Carroll’s doing his homework. And we know Lane Kiffin, despite coaching Corral hard, absolutely loves his quarterback. Carroll trusts Kiffin — and selected Alex McGough from his program.
I wouldn’t rule out a move back into the late first. The Seahawks might take their shots at the position. They did so with Charlie Whitehurst and Matt Flynn. I can well imagine them drafting one every year until they find an answer.
I’d prefer they just wait until 2023 and build up their roster — but they could still take one next year, even if they pull this move.
When asked if they’d want to add another quarterback, even if they re-sign Geno Smith, Carroll answered with a firm ‘yes’.
A warning for Geno Smith
A polite but noteworthy warning. Carroll made it clear that he wants Smith back in Seattle, competing to start. It’s also clear he thinks his familiarity with the system and team possibly makes him the front-runner to start in 2022.
As with Tarvaris Jackson in 2011, if nothing else it appears Carroll is very keen to have someone with experience and history in Seattle on the roster.
He warned Smith not to miss this opportunity, which to me makes it sound like the player is holding out for more money and is maybe using the situation to try and milk a few extra dollars.
The thing is though, Geno Smith hasn’t proven worthy of more on the field. He was arrested on suspicion of DUI this off-season. Nobody else will give him a pathway to start.
Holding out is a great way to ensure you end up unemployed. He’d be best served to sign whatever deal he’s being offered quickly.
Updated horizontal board
Click the image to enlarge. Gold players are prospects who impressed me with their physical qualities (testing, style of play and/or attitude).
I will continue to update and adjust the board over the next month.
If you missed yesterday’s live mock draft check it out here:
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My preference regarding DK is to trade him, specifically to the Packers. Nothing against him but this is a Draft Blog & it’s way more fun to have lots of high picks to remake the roster with. I would start by asking for their 2022 #22, #53 & a 2023 1st round pick. Imagine Rodgers slinging it to DK…could become the premier tandem in the league. Green Bay has the ammo, the need & the urgency to make this happen. 2nd Super Bowl rings don’t come easy & the sun is setting. No time to waste!
For Seattle, aside from the obvious added picks in a great looking draft we would have 3 first rounders to work with in 2023. Preferably we’d be picking near the top with lots of young core players on the roster & wouldn’t have to burn anything else to nab our signal caller of choice. If we are picking a little later then there is plenty of ammo to move up with.
I’m always rooting for the most expeditious path to winning a championship.
Draft picks are fun and I am pro fun.
The Jets & Packers are begging for a WR like DK.
Get as much as you can while you have them over a barrel.
Perfect opportunity to take advantage of the situation instead of the other way around.
I am sorry but I have to ask to pump the brakes on the DK trade requests. The reason you get picks is to hopefully hit on players like DK. He’s already showed he wants to be here, showed that he’s willing to support your next QB. If we desperately needed picks this year, maybe I could buy the argument by selling high on DK but we’re loaded with picks this year and next.
So some say, get more 1st and 2nd round picks to fill out the roster but those are always tough odds for any team, look at the ‘Hawks last five years:
Had 10 picks in the 1st or 2nd round. Came away with 1 superstar (DK) and 3 good players (Jordyn Brooks, Darrell Taylor, Jarran Reed). So, 60% of those picks have provided little value or flamed out altogether. Jordyn Brooks is even debatable based on where they took him.
2020: Jordyn Brooks, Darrell Taylor
2019: LJ Collier, Marquise Blair, DK Metcalf
2018: Rashaad Penny
2017: Malik McDowell, Ethan Pocic
2016: Germain Ifedi, Jarran Reed
Again, I’m not even necessarily picking on the “Hawks here. I think they’ve drafted exceedingly well in the late rounds and UDFA, but accruing draft picks doesn’t always equate to filling holes. Want to accrue loads of picks to increase the odds in round 3 + 4? That’s been even worse for the ‘Hawks:
2020: 2 4th round picks: Colby Parkenson, DJ Dallas
2019: 3 4th round picks: Gary Jennings, Phil haynes, Ugo Amadi
2017: 4 3rd round picks: Shaquill Griffin, Lano Hill, Nazair Jones, Amara Darboh
2016: 3 3rd round picks: CJ Prosise, Nick Vannett, Rees Odhiambo
2014: 3 4th round picks: Cassius Marsh, Kevin Norwood, Kevin Pierre-Louis
Good point.
Trade DK to get DK back is the hope. When it’s more likely you’re getting Collier and Penny back.
Pete seemed to throw a whole lot of cold water on trading DK in his press conference. I realize he used similar language with Russ about expecting the player to be here, but this sounded different to me.
They don’t sound like they are in a rush to do DK’s extension – Pete basically said they have other things going on. Sounded a lot like they’ll do his extension in the summer when they usually lock up the 3rd year guys they extend. It didn’t sound like they are actively trying to do DK’s extension now.
It’s fun to dream on extra draft picks and I can see the logic to doing so. But unless something changes radically in the next 3 weeks, there doesn’t seem to me to be any smoke from Pete or DK about a potential trade.
Really? You want to let go of The Shredder? A player whose potential is ~90-100% of Megatron?
TRUE. Selling now would be selling high. Draft picks spent on defense and OL, or stocking up for a QB would be quite good. But have you ever heard the phrase that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush? That’s doubly proven with draft picks.
First round draft picks have a high bust rate, about 50% from what I remember reading, with stars emerging from a subset of the remainder. And here we have The Shredder, a proven B+ receiver (who is not far from A- and A) who carries a difficult to find mix of size and speed that has already proven quite valuable. At a premium position.
He’s a player who can build around. I’d understand a trade like that, but I wouldn’t support it.
Yep, really.
It’d be a roll of the dice for sure. If Seattle is ever going to win another title we’re going to need a great QB, which to me is the only ‘premium’ position & a fixation point until you have one. Having 3 1st rounders in 2023 might help get their guy at QB. No guarantee but I’d take that shot. WR is one of the few position groups that this FO has had consistent success with in talent acquisition. I actually trust them with WR as opposed to OL where it’d be hard to do worse than they’ve done.
If most everything goes right from here on out we might be competing for a title in 2025.
The draft is fun for a night
A great team is fun for a year
There’s $6.5m of cap room available on Jackson’s contract if they cut him.
If Zion is the pick, maybe they cut Jackson right after the draft.
Not unlike Fluker after nabbing Damien Lewis two years ago.
I think when Carroll basically said today that Haynes was competing with Jackson, he might as well have added, ‘but we’re cutting Jackson after the draft’. It is obvious.
Haynes moved some bodies in that Week 18 Arizona game.
Rob + Cha, that’s what I got out of the presser too, Gabe is a pending cap casualty.. perhaps regardless of what happens in the draft.
He looked good, and potentially allows is to move Lewis back to RG. Getting two birds stoned at once.
Spotrac and overthecap both say 12m in dead cap if cut pre-june? Isn’t 6,5m the saving for cutting him 2023?
But isn’t Haynes more a LG? Could this mean Lewis will switch back to RG?
You’re right I was looking at 2023. June1 they could cut him and gain $6m.
Or they could hold a live auction at the draft. Best offer in an hour gets him. We’ll take a 2023 7th.
Rob, a little surprised to see you have Zion highlighted in gold. IIRC, I thought you were somewhat down on him during Sr Bowl practices. Has your opinion changed after watching more film or is the gold more due to his athletic testing?
I still think his Senior Bowl performance was massively overrated.
But on a physical level, he’s practically flawless. That has to be acknowledged. His potential, based on physical profile, is top-tier.
Rob, you’re horizontal board is top shelf every year. I really enjoy the evolution of the board leading up the draft. Amazing content!
Are the names in red, injuries? If so, I would put Drake London in that category until he has a pro day.
Injuries or with players like Adam Anderson — something far more serious
Could Anderson be the “second chances” guy that PC and JS were preparing the fanbase for? 5* recruit like PC likes, too. Grab him and Ojabo later based on injuries, that could be franchise changing.
Also, DK was thought to be a top 10 possibility in his draft, but fell based on the neck injury and it took all by surprise. Anyone that could have that potential fall this year? Could the lisfranc injury to Stingley potentially cause that type of fall? Ojabo seems to be this years Dayo, and could fall as far as him (54), but thats different than the DK injury.
Anderson won’t be drafted unless his case is dropped
Of course, but if PC/JS have information that is likely to be dropped, they might want to prepare the fans for the pick and the backlash. Having it dropped for lack of prosecution, doesnt make it exactly go away. Any team that drafts him will still have to answer questions and will have had to have done due diligence (which i would assume many have started to do). Frank Clark situation is similar.
They trade for Weirdbeard. Sign a worthless wife beater one year, Matt Flynn the next. They need to strike gold at QB somehow but a Russell Wilson just doesn’t fall out of the sky everyday. Drew Lock is so bad that the Broncos, in desperate need of a QB, swapped QBs and then gave away two players and four draft picks in the first two rounds, including a top 10 pick and another 1st the following year. And now it’s time for Pete to want a drunk driver. Kind of like Tarvaris Part II. It’s a “great” time to be a fan. This has turned into such a joke of a franchise that it’s comical to me how worthless or unrealistic they are about the most important position in pro sports. But maybe we can get a pass rusher!
C’mon man, the problems that last several years are all on Wilson. Haven’t you been reading the vitriol being spewed (occasionally) here and elsewhere? You know, won’t throw over the middle, lost a step, more concerned about himself than the team, etc., etc……
I’m looking forward to watching the crash and burn this year and then a lot of the same people crying about Wilson being traded.
Bottom line, John and Pete ain’t going anywhere until their contracts expire. You know it and I know it. What I also know is that their legacies are nearly 100% tied to the trade and the performance of the team in the years that follow until those contracts expire. Their egos are such that they believe they are smart enough to pull this off. I don’t buy it but we shall see. As Rob has said, we might as well look to the future and hope things work out. That’s all we have now my friend.
One last thing, this is a win/win situation for me. If they fail spectacularly as I expect, I’ll win because I was in favor of them being fired and building a team around Wilson and will have been proven right. If they succeed, I’m happy cuz my Seahawks are in the playoffs and winning.
Big board looks fantastic… nice work Rob.
Zion Johnson looks amazing…. It would be hard to miss out on an elite defender like Stingley, J. Johnson, or Wyatt but I could see why the hawks are interested in Zion. We need more first round picks!!
Hey Rob,
Love the blog and the Rebuild. I’m not sure or hope Carrol trusts Kiffin about QBs, if Carrol thought McGough was a worthy QB, he needs to get his eyes checked. McGough was a wasted pick on the few picks the Seahawks have used on the QB position. I think it was more of Kiffin trying to help Corral by introducing him to any NFL Execs he knew. I would do the same thing if I was in Kiffin’s position to help my former student that I taught. I thought some of the film (as limited that I watched) on Lock was much better than Willis or Corral. This is just my guess, I think Schneider and Carrol do look for their version of classic or big armed QB, they were supposedly looking hard at Josh Allen and Mahommes. I think it’s a big mistake by most most analyst to think that Schneider and Carrol is looking high and low for the next Russ Wilson (shorter side) and taking the QB at 9. Knowing Schneider and his loves for the physical attributes, if he really believed Russ Wilson would turn out to be a HOF, he would have took him in the 1st round but he didn’t. From what I’ve seen of Lock (which is not much), I think Lock is more of a Schneider/Carrol type of QB….. tall, the big arm, mobile enough in addition has NFL experience. Malik is going to be a mess………
I loved Russell Wilson
Question:
Is it me or was Russ adverse to throwing over the middle?
I’ve seen him many times not throw it to WIDE open receivers whom might be 10+ yards away right in middle of the field. I’m just guessing here, could it be he couldn’t see them due to his height and the OL all standing over 6’3+. Is this why most of successful plays are outside of the pocket. I’m about 5’10 and when I play basketball against a whole group of 6’2+, it’s harder for me to see people. If this is the case and I’m an opposing QB, I would tend to shift my coverage to the outside and gamble by leaving the middle open on more occasions. When Russ was having his issues, I noticed more teams were going to 2 safety high to prevent the deep through and not worry too much the short over the middle throws.
Love your blog
Mcgough was a 7th rounder, I don’t know how you can call that a waste. Anything that late is nothing more than a flyer on some trait you find attractive IMO.
https://youtu.be/PPBAREEmMB0
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/season/russell-wilson/WIL777781/2021/all/qb-grid
Cha, cha, cha……….tsk tsk. How can you let facts get in the way of the fan script justifying that Wilson was the problem?
Thanks cha yet again for this!
Sorry Cha and everyone else (because I really do not want to argue about a QB that is not on our team anymore). I too love Russ, and yes, he rarely throws over the middle. He’s a good/great QB. So, yes I would expect his stats to look good from most perspectives regardless of what angle one may look at them, as portrayed in Cha’s QBR chart linked above. Separating quality from quantity, RW does not throw over the middle much at all.
His game by game chart in 2021, from what I could see (weeks 4-18), show 8 games where he rarely threw over the middle and 3 other games where he threw over the middle a fair amount by the eye test. All are welcome to judge for themselves.
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/russell-wilson/WIL777781/season
RW did utilize the middle more in 2020 compared to 2021. I didn’t look back farther than that.
🐎🐓🔒 is our QB (for) now. I wish Russ the best.
Also this article by the ringer. Skip the words, scroll down and find the heat map where RWs passing distribution and WR routes run are heavily favored towards the sideline or not in the middle of the field. The point is, his inability to consistently utilize the middle limited the playbook. I believe that and still appreciate that Russel is a HoF caliber QB.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2021/11/15/22783470/aaron-rodgers-russell-wilson-offseason-drama-packers-seahawks
I think your analysis is spot on. Short to intermediate passes in the middle of the field were practically non-existent the past decade or so. It is also why I think Russ is such a good deep passer, because his height requires him to through at a different trajectory. Being 5’10”, his trajectory on short/intermediate passes over the middle would be challenged because of tall linemen looking to bat passes down. When you fail to utilize the middle of the field, it gives the defense an advantage in trying to cover all of the other areas.
*throw
Did you even look at the chart that cha linked in this sub-thread?
.
.
.
I simply have to just give up and let it go. People gonna go along with the narrative no matter what.
Honestly, this thread made me giggle.
People are still trying.
People need to look at the volume stats, he really did not throw that many passes in the middle of the field just based on that link alone. Most were of the short less than 10 yards kind, and there were some weeks where huge gaps where he didn’t throw between the hash marks.
That data actually supports the narrative that Russell Wilson would’ve been more effective had he thrown more into the middle of the field, but it was underutilized, especially last year.
For the love of cripes.
People need to stop all this. First and absolutely most importantly Wilson is no loger our QB.
Drew lock actually throws over the middle a ton. So for all those that think that’s the secret ingredient to success there ya go.
Unfortunely Drew “over the middle,” Lock also throws a near 1:1 td/int ratio. So while you all are getting those sweet, sweet over the middle throws it’s gonnabe a back breaker with the pick-a-palooza.
Second. I’m not sure how long some of you have been following the hawks but this team isn’t the early 10’s patriots or current day Rams where we run two athletic TE’s, “weave,” routes with amendola, or have king of the footwork Cooper Kupp out there. There are two WR’s and scrubs. And both recievers are fast and faster middle/deep threats. It’s not like Pete has been crying out for short passing. There’s no one you could call a slot reciever. Every year there’s one athletic TE good for around a few TD’s and 400 yards. And there hasn’t been a decent pass catching Running back since Lynch left the first time.
And if for some reason you don’t know, well now you do, Pete prefers two things:
Run the ball. And back breaking deep shots to make running the ball easier. That’s it.
Dude, all our backs can catch. Carrol is the reason we rarely throw to backs, he’s all about running and play action deep shots, as you say. Problem is, the whole NFL knows what Pete is going to to, and has figured out how to stop it. But Carson has fantastic hands, and Collins and DJ can catch. Sheesh…
I haven’t watched the whole press conference yet so I haven’t seen the context of the talk in regards to Blythe’s experience. Couldn’t Pete have just been referring to the fact that Blythe is new to the team and thus the Seahawks players next to him (i.e., the QB and G) are new to him?
No, from what I recall it was specifically in reference to young players. In fact, I think Pete even caught himself by mentioning Gabe as it almost begged the question.. Gabe’s not young, who would be starting in his spot?
I’m really invested in the team hitting the defensive side early and often, so this speculation on the o-line and quarterback picks goes against what I’m hoping for. But all plausible, and I agree the organization should not fight the board–at all costs. Making reaches at picks is a good way to kill the franchise.
I have no interest in Geno Smith on the Seahawks anymore… however, if they *must* sign him, they better not cave to whatever ridiculous contract demands he has.
I say “ridiculous”, because I can’t imagine any other team desiring him or giving him anything more than league minimum.
Frankly, I’m surprised that they haven’t just moved on from him, if he’s playing hardball with them.
It seems like they’d want a guy who is hungry and bought in.
Maybe PC thinks Geno is “hungry”? He’s really gone out of his way to be very complimentary of Geno’s play from last season. The whole “second chance” thing too.
Geno might want Jameis money while the Hawks want to pay him Dalton money.
One blog out there was mentioning the possibility that the Hawks & Geno may have some sort of handshake agreement in place. The logic being the Hawks want others to think a QB at #9 is a true option. If you’ve got Geno & Lock on hand before the draft, it lessens the chances they take a QB at #9. Who knows. Part of the fun games teams like to play during draft season.
While I agree his interest around the league is low. However, Geno Smith had a QBR of 103 in 2021. That’s pretty damn good.
After seeing your new Horizontal Board, it really hits home what needs to happen. There’s 10 “Round 1” players, 9 on defense, and they have the 9th pick. Just take your favorite defender at 9. Don’t overthink it.
Stingley
Wyatt
Davis
Between Brooks, Taylor and this pick, you have a chance to have 3 standout young players on defense and actually be good on that side of the ball again, which would go a long ways towards mitigating the turnover on the offensive side of the ball.
Launching a rebuild at guard would certainly be a different way to go. Better get a LT to play next to him if that’s what you’re doing.
Corral is the only QB I’d be ok with taking in round 1, but preferably not top 10. I’d be alright with Willis or Pickett round 2, Ridder or Strong in the 3rd.
Thanks for the different vantage points Rob.
I think a guard in the teens would be just fine by me. I’ve become a bit agnostic about the process and could go all defense or all oline or a combo.
There is a case to go guard and then center this year. Better to work out assignments and alignments before bringing in a new qb. Before anyone mentions Blythe a short contract at that amount is very much what Seattle used yo do back when they were good add building a team. I think we misconstrue the idea of a Hedge. Blythe is a hedge. Someone who can play if need be but cheap enough to dump if the center they want is there.
So, if Jackson, Amadi and (hopefully) Carson are destined to be cut loose, who do we view as the FA that we’ll utilize these savings towards? Duane Brown? Shell? Any outside FA?
Yeah.
LT
RT
Metcalf extension
Save the rest for a mid-season trade classic like when they got Diggs for a 5th.
I’m only half joking when I say that I’d rather give Poona a shot at QB (he has expressed an interest, and he’s an amazing athlete) than sink any deeper into the Geno swamp of nothing
I wish we’d move on from Geno too
He is… bad
Agree. He is terrible. I prefer Drew Lock over him.
We need another Kam Chancellor on the team!! I’m sure every other team in the league is thinking the same thing, but man that guy was the truth.
Then hope they get a pick high enough to draft Will Anderson next year
He has a Kam-like mentality, he is world class, and he wears #31
Just a DE instead of a S
Top 5 no doubt?
Top-three lock
Heck yea, only then we wouldn’t be able to get Will Levis.
Levis or Anderson… tough call.
It’s totally ridiculous but completely doable to get both.
One part is oddly harder than the other.
First: i actually think Seattle will have a top five pick next year. So that puts us in striking range of Anderson.
Second on average (ten years) 2.5 qb’s are taken in the top ten. Even if Denver wins the superbowl their (our) First rounder at 32, plus the seahawks top second rounder, and our third……plus a fourth back from the receiving team would put us back into the top ten for Levi’s.
Wonky as hell I know. But two top ten picks for the price of second and essentially a middle third rounder?…i’d do it if the team was getting very close to ready.
Seems like next year has a bit more obvious too-tier talent. I’m all in favor of gathering ammo for next year and drafting high upside, development types this year.
Forever and always my favorite Seahawk.
“I knocked you on your ass, though, and I’m gonna do it again; I’m going to continually do it.”
THE. BEST. EVER.
It’s a shame his career was cut short. None the less, Kam left an incredible impact on the city of Seattle and the league is general. I still have my Sherman jersey from that era. Frankly, I wish is was a Kam jersey. No disrespect to Sherman! Dude was a legend on his own. We were sure spoiled back in those days.
Second to Easley, in my opinion, but it’s close.
I think Seattle should trade Lockett instead of DK, he is on a very good contract and, he is older then DK and not a building block of the franchise. Maybe a late first and fourth to either Chiefs/Packers. Will that be a move you support Rob?
Not Rob. Sadly you’re not getting a first for Lockett. Not unless you’re sending picks the other way.
They’re pretty well contractually tied to Lockett this year and next. It would be ugly to get out of it, and that’s completely ok that he sticks around.
Seattle should trade up maybe to the Giants at pick 5 to ensure that we get either Jermaine Johnson or Kayvon Thibodeaux as we may never be able to pick high enough to draft a great game wrecking talent. If they are both gone I would suggest we draft Desmond Ridder who is QB 1 and had All-Pro Potential or Phidarian Mathis who reminds me of Fletcher Cox. What do you guys think?
Bloody hell
I do have Riddler as my QB1 but he is not a top. 10 pick. Rob is Phidarian Mathias really that good? Would love a Fletcher Cox type player.
He is not Fletcher Cox, not close.
Mathis is a very aggressive defender who showed surprising pass rush ability. Long arms help. Two-gaps well but also showed better than expected ability to shake blocks. Whether he can do it at the next level, we’ll see. Helps playing on a line with Will Anderson of course.
If we trade up for Ridder and take him in top 5, Rob and us Hawks fans might have a heartattack. Picking him at #9 is a joke in it self but to trade up is just insanity.
Rob would you cry is that happened?
Also what’s your opinion on Arnold Ebiketie I think he is great prospect.
Yes I would cry
I like Ebiketie but not sure I’d want to launch a rebuild with him
Ridder’s a qb a good team with few holes takes as a backup. But anything more is really reaching.
And I actualy like the player.
The more I read this blog, see the board, and try mock drafts, the more I eorry about what the Seahawks are doing (or not doing) with the offensive line. Very slim pickings for high level talent at the tackle snd guard positions in this draft it seems. Denver fans have mentioned a lot that Drew Lock didn’t do too well handling pass.rush pressure,
not many QBs really do. It’s hard to find a QB with a gunslinger arm who’s also willing to dink and dunk or consistently get rid of it quickly.
I’m curious of your Kyle Hamilton evaluation,are you saying you think he’s a 2nd round talent ot that you would only accept the Hawks taking him in the 2nd? By most accounts he’s a top 5 talent.
I’ll just copy every other person on the internet so my board looks the same as everyone else’s then Adam.
I wasn’t questioning your evaluation. I guess my question was does your horizontal board reflect your round evaluation of players in general or how they fit with the Seahawks?
These are my grades
Tony Pauline says he’s hearing Seattle’s preference is to trade down from #9 because they want more picks to spur on their rebuild
Also says trading Metcalf is another way to gather some draft capital
Now he’s saying Linderbaum is falling
And there’s a ‘real possibility’ he falls out of R1
50/50 that Travon Walker goes #1 overall per Tony
Says he will go #1 or #2
Tony says Jets might get a day three pick for Becton. That’s how bad he is
And he doesn’t expect NYJ to go after Metcalf (or Lockett)
Gotta think there will be suitors at 9 if teams are willing to cave in to get a QB. Man, I just think you don’t get to 9 very often, take the BPA ugh
Not being facetitious. I think there’s every chance seattle gets a native top five pick next year. Even if they slam dunk this draft an honest actor would acknowledge this is two good drafts, a good free agency, and a qb away from being legit.
A sizeable enough pieces coming back from last year. The lightest improvement just from numbers but it remains to be seen in action in qb pressures and sacks and a qb who was never as good as a mediocre Wilson does not portend well for success.
I wonder if Carroll is putting a bug in JS’s ear, then, if that Mic’d Up segment from the Jets\Seahawks game is anything to go by. PC commented many times about how big Becton was, with that patented Carroll look of joyful awe when he see something shiny.
And John will probably reply, “have you seen him recently? He’s even bigger…”
Excellent call on your live mock.
Still much prefer Jurgens and strange. But if linderbaum is 1. There and 2. A better fit i’d have no problem.
Was Tony on a live chat or something?
Stream
Link?
It’ll be on PFN’s you tube page
who do you see as the most likely candidates to trade up to #9? chargers? eagles? packers? seems like several teams will want to trade down this year.
They have to get an OT out of at least one of those first three picks. Whoever they rate as 1-2rd OT starting talent, they need to maneuver to select one of those players. The current situation at offensive tackle is dire, even if they patch it for another year with Brown.
You can’t magic a tackle prospect Dong
Reaching for a player is never a good idea
I’m all defense but if they could land at least one legit oline player I’d be pretty happy.
A bit lame for us but not for reality that Lucas is finally getting recognized. Unsexy as it is a real RT at 40, 41 was sounding pretty appealing.
Well, according to PFFs most updated draft board we could get Evan Neal at 9…
…of course they also have Jalyn Armour-Davis ranked 295th on their big board so take that with a grain of salt.
I generally agree and I’m not suggesting a reach at #9, but I think they need to work the board to get one OT with long term starter potential. I am not convinced Curhan, Forsythe, or anyone else on the roster have the talent to be quality, long term NFL starters at tackle. On the other hand, I see players that will be drafted in the first two rounds of this draft that can be (Ekwonu, Neal, Lucas, Penning, Cross, Raimann) – provided you do your homework and pick one that you can coach and fits your system. All easier said than done, I know, but I just don’t think an offense can function without quality at OT. They have to solidify that position.
Well they should do their homework, you say. But they haven’t been very successful at evaluating OL talent have they? Seaside Joe mentions how many linemen they’ve drafted, and how many draft resourced they’ve spent looking for quality OLinemen. But have they had anything better than an average line since the Max Unger trade?
It’s a league wide and a Seahawk problem and this year will just perpetuate it. Lots of talented DLinemen entering the league but less talent available to block them.
The safest ways.seem to be to be able to pick high in the draft when elite Olinemen are available (unlike this year) or.to trade for and pay
Free agents which the Seahawks did with Duane Brown but haven’t made the big splash Oline signings in recent years like some have hoped. I guess it’s all about the quick game and a quick release nowadays. Holding onto the ball as long as Russell tended to is asking for trouble even though it does produce big plays.
I think this year’s offensive line, even if they re-sign Brown, could turn out to be the worst in the league. The Seahawks badly need to acquire talent, get lineman into a single position where they can hone their craft, and then keep them together as a unit to build cohesion. I agree they have been terrible at that. Improve. Start this year by adding a foundational player or two. Then build on that going forward. I like Lewis. Start the process to find four more for the long haul.
Look, I’m going to have to make a point here.
It’s become a bit boring and repetitive having people come on and say, ‘just draft O-liners’ without offering any names or justifications for doing so.
Reaching on players won’t solve the O-line. You’ll just end up with a still crap O-line, but you’ll have wasted your resource from the Wilson trade.
You don’t draft positions. You draft players.
Start framing your opinions around what’s actually available in the draft — not positional ideals.
Very well. If Ekwonu were there at #9, that would be my pick. And I’d play him at tackle. Like Garrett Bolles, I think he might have a rough start, but the attitude and athletic ability are there. I don’t buy the “he’s just a guard” assessment. I don’t buy it from the tape and I don’t buy from his physical profile.
Duane Brown
6′ 4″+1/8 / 315 lb / 34+1/4″ arm / 10″ hand
5.03 40-yd (1.71 10-yd) / 32.5″ vert / 108″ broad / 4.52 ss / 7.54 3c
Ikem Ekwonu
6′ 4″ / 310 lbs / 34″ arm / 10-1/4″ hand
4.93 40-yd (1.78 10yd) / 29″ vert / 108″ broad / 4.73 ss / 7.82 3c
Watch his interviews and watch the way he plays. Tough, mean, leader. Quickest and most sudden of the top OL in this draft. BAMF and the most fun of any offensive lineman in this year’s draft to watch play. Also, look at the improvement from 2020 to 2021 showing against competition like Clemson and Miss State. Smart. All-AAC academic with a 3.4 gpa. Young, born 2001. Player on the rise. If he struggles on the outside, you’ve probably got your left guard of the future (assuming Lewis moves back to the right side) and a locker room leader.
Similarly, if Lucas or Penning fell to the late first round or early second, those are players that I feel would be worth going after.
Rob, I respect your writing and talent evaluation. I think you’ve also studied the Seahawks front office better than anybody else in the media. That said, I don’t *always* agree with your evaluations and especially statements on and understanding of defensive scheme. Reasonable people can differ. I think a flaw of the Seahawks is their failure over a decade to build a stable offensive line. I think that is a key reason for their inconsistency on offense. Without Russell Wilson to bail them out going forward, I think they ought to reconsider their OL strategy. One man’s opinion.
But this isn’t a case of having a differing opinion.
You did what I said, which is stating a desire for a certain position without acknowledging whether it is feasible.
Then when pressed you named a player who won’t be there at #9, proving my point.
(Don’t buy the guard thing if you want but given his frame and tape it’s not even a close call)
You then name another player who won’t be there in the late first and one who might be but you’re saying you have to go after them, presumably meaning by trading up.
Again, just proving my point.
You have to talk about what is realistic and who will be there. Not just say “I want O liners”.
Wait, you think there’s no chance they trade back from #9 and, say, take Penning?
Or that Lucas lasts to #40? A lot of folks have Lucas in the 2nd or later.
You have Linderbaum lasting to #40. Bucky Brooks just put Linderbaum at #14 to the Ravens. He doesn’t even have Lucas in Rd 1.
You’re sure the Hawks don’t rate Cross, who was a 5-star prospect and is considered by many to be the best pass blocking OT in the class. With a new OL coach and scheme, you’re sure they won’t go that direction?
Or that Ekwonu will never play OT successfully?
You seem to have great certainty that your board is the truest distillation of football scouting knowledge. I can respect that. It’s what I come here for. All I’m suggesting is that a 1-2 rd talent at OT is likely to be a good option with one of the Seahawks first three picks. OT is a high value position that warrants consideration and there are good players in this draft who would provide value there in the first three picks. I’d be similarly happy with a CB or pass rusher in the same vein. Maybe a WR, considering the latest contracts. I see strengths in Rd 1-2 at all of those positions in this draft.
I never said that — and this response makes me think you’re just trolling.
Here’s what I actually said, word for word:
“You then name another player who won’t be there in the late first”
And a lot of folks say a lot of things that won’t be true in relation to the draft. Tyler Linderbaum in the top-10, Spencer Rattler #1 overall, draft Malik Willis in the top-10 because of one throw at a pro-day in shorts.
Etc, etc.
Bucky Brooks also has the Seahawks taking Devin Lloyd.
You’ll need a better counter than that. (Still feels like trolling).
Tony Pauline, the #1 draft insider in the business, reported on Tuesday that there’s a very realistic chance Linderbaum doesn’t go in the first round.
Keep going.
Very sure.
Not athletic enough for the top-10, not explosive enough for the top-10 and last time I checked the Seahawks want to run the ball. So no, drafting a tackle from the air-raid seems very unlikely.
I think he’s a guard because everything about his profile says he is a guard — from the footwork, the body type, the testing, the tape. Other people I’ve talked to strongly agree, who know a lot more than you or I.
Nope, I’ve just done a lot of work. More than most. I also talk to people most people aren’t afforded the opportunity to talk to. Some of which I share, some I don’t.
And when people like yourself just come on and say ‘draft a tackle at all costs’ and I push back — then you start challenging me — of course I’m going to defend my opinions.
But it’s a very useful tactic I guess. You’ve gone on the front foot with sentences like the one above, to avoid answering any of the counters I’ve put to you. You’re playing offense instead of defense. But it doesn’t change that you were, initially, drafting for ideals (‘I want a tackle’) and not drafting for what actually exists in this draft. The rest of the conversation since hasn’t changed that.
And like I said at the start. Who? A franchise quarterback is a good option too. But who?
I never said OT isn’t a high value position. I said that you can pine for it all you want, those players have to be available realistically for the Seahawks.
Sorry Rob my comment was merely to say that despite the obvious and pretty much perpetual need for line upgrades, Seattle has failed to draft well at the position, despite their investment of resources. Their options are drafting high enough to get an elite one like Orlando Pace, which they aren’t in position to do this year. Other teams have the same issue as well. They also haven’t recently tried thr tried and true method of acquiring a proven OL commodity via trade or free agency. So what are they going to do? It’s a difference in philosophy. Fan expectations, realistic or not are disappointed year after year. Perhaps Russell Wilson was too, although he had himself to blame as well.
Rob, a few items to start. First, I’m not trying to antagonize you. I really appreciate that you even take the time to respond to my comments. I will say again that I think you are one of the best draft analysts out there and *the* expert on Seahawks talent acquisition. Point taken on everything above.
What I’m trying to put forward more than players is a team building critique. I’d really like to see the Hawks focus on positional value in the draft. With picks at 9, 40, and 41, I think they have great flexibility to move around in the first two rounds and select the players they want to build their team around. It is an opportunity they haven’t had for a long time.
Here is sort of my nightmare draft scenario. The Hawks first three picks are Jordan Davis NT, Kyle Hamilton S, and Breece Hall RB. They’d come into the media room and say, “we drafted the best players available and the best players at their positions in this draft.” Fair statement. If their scouts felt that no quarterback, pass rusher, cornerback, or offensive tackle was close to the value of those players at the draft position they found themselves in, so be it.
It is pretty easy via free agency to find a solid NT, S, or RB at a reasonable price. A top (or even above average) QB, CB, pass rushing EDGE/DT, or OT is a lot harder to find and a lot more expensive. In terms of value, I think their free agency moves have been poor. Are they going to screw up the draft in the same way?
On the other hand, if they can start to fill those high value positions with quality guys on rookie contracts, I think they are that much closer to a winner. Maybe I’m just stating the obvious. If they don’t come away with anything there, it may just indicate a weak class. Either way, though, I think it would mean a lack of forward progress.
Last on guys like Cross that don’t really fit the Seahawks mold. It appears that Carroll is ceding a lot of control to his new coaches on both sides of the football. I wonder if this will lead to draft selections outside the norms we’ve seen in the past. You mentioned Whitworth (the late 30’s version) and Havenstein as being much different from what the Seahawks look for at tackle. What do Waldron / Dickerson look for? How involved are they in the process? Same thing on the other side of the ball with Hurtt and Desai.
Thank you for all the work you put into the blog & podcast and the thought provoking content. Don’t mind me.
The thing is, Cross doesn’t fit LA’s style either. He’s not agile or athletic and he’s not massive. Which is what they’ve looked for.
To me he’s just a thoroughly underwhelming prospect.
Well, Rob, it seems pretty clear Seattle under Carrol does exactly what you say not to do–drafts certain positions of perceived need, rather than BPA. And yes, that’s a big reason we ended up with bums like Collier and Ifedi, and with Penny, who has one half season of good games in four years.its how we ended up with Britt.
Well, let’s see how the draft plays out. I’m willing to wait and see on this one and pass judgement after. I think this is such a good draft class most teams will be graded well.
From The Ringer 2022 NFL Draft 2022 Draft Guide- “Barring Notre Dame safety Kyle Hamilton falling into their lap to do his best Earl Thomas impression, the Seahawks could look for a road-grading offensive lineman or a pass rusher who can set the tone in the trenches. Honestly, apart from wide receiver, there isn’t a position on this roster that doesn’t need a serious upgrade.”
I found this to be a scathing rebuke of Seattle’s current roster and the men who put it together.
Indeed — but there’s really no need for anyone to even whisper the name Kyle Hamilton. He isn’t being drafted by the Seahawks. He just isn’t.
Even if he hadn’t run a horrible 40 time that goes against everything they’ve done in the draft — they still wouldn’t draft him.
I know this is blasphemy here- but I’m still intrigued by Hamilton on the Hawks. I actually think he’d be an average safety in the league at best. I don’t like his hips in coverage- he succeeds with elite instincts. Pete loves that crap. Hamilton can put 20lbs a on that frame easily and play a hybrid linebacker role. I see him as a defenses answer to a Kyle Pitts- he’s just a mismatch to scheme.
That all said, I’ll admit what I’ve described is impossible to justify at #9 for any team let alone the Hawks. Isaiah Simmons was a similar weapon with better testing and played a linebacker role. He’s still finding his footing in that defense. Hamilton is a luxury that I’d love them to find a way to get that doesn’t sacrifice investment in other key positions.
Sorry Denver — but when I read defensive backs just slapping on 20lbs, you lose me there. Especially when he’s running a 4.59 now at this weight. What’s he doing when he gains 20lbs?? A 4.8?
Isaiah Simmons ran a 4.39 and was already 20lbs heavier than Hamilton at their respective combines.
It’s just not a comparison in the slightest
I get it. I’m still smitten by his tape. That 40 doesn’t match what I see on the field. I mention him with Simmons in position uniqueness alone, not athletic profile.
I would love to know why on earth Alec Pierce isn’t being touted as a top 5 picks. He SCREAMS Julian Edelman to me and was an instrumental member of so many championship teams! Would love to hear your thoughts?
Every catch is contested and I don’t know why given he tests as well as he does
Pete is looking at a 6’ 2” center saying they haven’t had much luck with taller (6”5”) players??? The team took a huge hit trading a 6’5” center named Max Unger….
6’6 justin britt was gave us our best center play in a long time a few years ago. Although the rams just won a superbowl with short squatty 6’1 Brian Allen.
I confess to being relatively ignorant concerning draft prospects but thought this mock draft by Bucky Brooks in the 1st round to be interesting as he includes exactly zero QB’s in the 1st round:https://www.nfl.com/news/bucky-brooks-2022-nfl-mock-draft-3-0-jets-double-down-on-defense-no-qbs-picked-i. The chances are slim that it will be the case, but what the hell…
Oh joy, another Utah defensive player. If they do that…………….well, I suppose they’re not dumb enough to draft him at #9………right? right?
Hey Cha! And all the long timers. When are ya’ll gonna jump on a live a stream?? The more conversation the better.
it’d be great to hear Curtis on the pod at some point.
I can’t. I’m a Rob Staton burner account.
Just kidding.
Did you type that in on a flip phone you bought at 7-11?
This is my dream scenario for the first three picks. Let me know what y’all think?
9. Charles Cross: Grabbing the premier tackle in this class would be an absolute gift!
40. Carson Strong: If he somehow falls into our laps, Strong will be an upgrade over Russ within three seasons. You heard it here first!
41. Jerrion Ealy: Call me crazy but I prefer him to players like Breece Hall and Kenneth Walker.
Go Hawks!
Charles Cross is not the premier tackle in this class
Strong will quickly be on IR with the draft you are proposing.
Credit for different thinking! But also- no thank you!
Ealy is a fun looking runner, but man I wouldn’t see the need to take him there. I like his style, but he’s more shifty than burner, and for how upright and physical he plays at 5’ 8” I don’t know how healthy he’ll stay. I gotta say based on his short stride and long legs, he looks slower than he his, I honestly thought he was a 4.55 and 6 ft 220 type, and was not expecting him to be that much smaller!
Fantastic reading, really exciting draft ahead.
I would keep DK (is there a chance they move on from Lockett at the end of season?)
This is again drafting Eskridge. Not that we really really need him but we heard Rams would take him. Not how you build a roster.
Paid about double what they should have. But at least Billy next door didn’t get that last jawbreaker at the drug store.
Sometimes John doesn’t compute. So what if another team wants your run blocking TE? Go get one in the draft and pay 4 million for four years, which they did with Dissly, as opposed to almost 4x that amount. Dissly, who I like, is a leader? Of what? A qb less offense.
I’ve just watched Matt Corral’s pro-day session.
I have to say, his throwing mechanics were outstanding.
His footwork is nearly flawless, look at the base he throws from with his feet firmly on the turf and he generates so much torque because if his base and a snap-release. Mechanically he is on a different level to the other four ‘big name’ QB’s
How early would you feel comfortable drafting Corral? Pick 17? Pick 22?
I’d rather pass on QB this year but I guess some point in R2
Corral looks like a good fit for the Waldron offense. He seems better and better the more I watch of him. Chris Simms mentioned that his ability to slide around in the pocket and quickly get his feet set is elite. If he were to do that instead of bailing from the pocket and quickly make the “layups” as Kurt Warner calls them then I could see the Seahawks third down percentage and time of possession improving. His field vision and processing speed seem pretty decent as well. I would be very happy if they managed to get him with their second pick but I don’t believe that will be possible unless they trade way up. Is it really even reasonable to talk about him making it past Pittsburgh at 20? Don’t even decently rated quarterbacks usually see their stock just keep rising and rising until the draft?
I have concerns for, not about, Corral.
Going back to your interview with Scot McCloughan I am concerned this team isn’t good enough to support a young QB.
Blythe is an uncertain upgrade at Center. There’s a real chance he’s just a guy who fits the body type and not much else. Two holes at tackle with the money to fill one of them “decently.”
While he looks like a really good fit for an old style RPO driven offense the only running back is an oft injured and frankly not very good Penny. Check the stats folks…in the ganes Penny has played he has only averaged a bit over 40 yards a game and 0.29 td’s a game. Not good.
I like Corral and his attitude quite a bit. I just see an athletically fit but not stout QB getting drilled over and over by our division with a sometimes electric rb who needs to get to full speed or he’s stopped in his tracks.
I’m concerned that Pauline’s rumors of trading back are real and that Corral is the target at somewhere between 15-25. The consensus here seems to be defense, defense, defense, meanwhile Pete’s been pictured with Corral, discussed drafting a center and clearly needs at least one tackle. Maybe it’s the old razzle dazzle being trotted out to hide their true plans for walking away with every Georgia defender, but how Pete would it be for Pete to go offense, offense, offense with his first three picks? It would be very Pete.
I’ll continue on the Stingley, Tindall, Williams train until the Day 2 wreckage is complete.
I’d not cry in all offense mode if it was: Zion Johnson, Lucas, Jurgens.
It might be ugly and not what a lot of us want. But going from lamest oline ever to:
LT “x”, Johnson, Jurgens, Lewis back to whete he should be, and Lucas sure could make running the rock and a future qb nice and clean the following year.
Could we be in store for a heavy offense draft? Is the draft next year really strong on D? I guess one benefit of going Corral this year is that it could possibly open up the opportunity to get Will Anderson with a top 5 pick.
Wouldn’t that be classic PCJS to go OG-QB-OC with their first 3 picks in the best defensive draft in memory?
you already know the answer to your question Blitzy
*sad trombone
And here’s the really funny part – none of them will pan out. In some way, each will have a fatal flaw. Imagine the laughter and frivolity on this board – gosh, how fun. I look forward to it.
I would be stunned if it’s a ‘heavy offensive’ draft
Not surprising about Corral based on what you’ve reported previously. Corral’s talent was never really in question, he has a fantastic arm, great mobility, and speed, and is fairly accurate. With the offense he ran and his ability to get the ball out so fast, I think he needed to show proper mechanics at his pro day.
The only thing now is do you believe he has the mental part? Can he run a proper NFL offense, read the defense pre and post snap and then use that information to find the right read and deliver the ball. As McCloughan said, he won’t be ready year 1, maybe not even year 2 but he could end up being a pretty good QB.
That’s definitely the big question amid all the ‘party boy’ talk
So then Pauline says they’re likely to trade down huh? a couple of questions about that:
10 what incredible talent do they pass on if they do so, in other words, who’s this year’s TJ Watt that ends up elsewhere
2) will any of Petey’s lap dogs in the media call them out for whining like babies about not having a top 10 pick and then when they get one, giving it up? (the answer to that is a likely “no”)
Look if all the stud pass rushers are off the board it sort of makes sense but I believe there will still be a transformational talent like Stingley available if it does happen that way. It would also make sense if Corral is their target all along because it’s likely they can get him where say Philly is. Of course, someone else could jump up and grab him and then we’d see them looking like they did after picking Collier (total bust!!) because all their targets were gone and they had no decent backup plan to their backup plan.
If they trade back and can’t draft a good/great player love a duck…there’s no need to collier this thing. Even in a panic if they start reaching and take Lucas 10 spots early. Is it a reach to get a great player a third of a round early? No if that player contributes they way many of us think.
After looking at all the current contracts, I have to ask about the future sale of this team.
They only have a few players on contract after 2023, and many of those signed through 2023 can be cut with reasonable cap hits.
Is that indicative of prepping for the sale? Did Allen make it clear they would prefer to mostly clear the books by that time?
Or, is it a reflection that they are in complete rebuild mode, wanting to eventually go younger and cheaper?
It puts a big question mark on DK’s contract talks.
I don’t believe the players or cap impact the sale process all that much.
Buyers care more about the P&L and operations. In Denver for instance, much of the sale process right is debating owner interest/commitment to fun a new stadium or sports complex. Also looking for diverse ownership groups. The price is more/less set based on revenues and costs.
It’s the former corporate drone in me.
Clear the books to make things more palatable for the next owner to come in a do what they want.
I’ve been through it 3 times. It probably doesn’t apply to an NFL franchise, but not many NFL franchises were willingly sold when they were having success on the field.
Such a weird “business,” an NFL team. Even small restaurants I have run start clearing debt and stop upgrading equipment prior to a sale.
But like I’ve said the NFL is more like an extremely rare and expensive “hippy natural foods co-op .” With guaranteed revenue sharing regardless of outcome. Coupled with spending and cap amounts that are regulated by a central body. This is 100% not a political comment so let’s not but the NFL is as socialized of an entity as it almost gets. Everything equal teams like the browns forever dogs, few stars for brand awareness, in a tiny city by modern standards should be basically out of business were it not for guaranteed revenue streams. None of my friends in Florida follow any of those teams. It’s all colleges out there. Yet Miami can do nothing for nearly 40 years, jax is the dregs, and tampa was a big fat nothing for twenty years and they just keep humming along.
The last NFL franchise to be sold was the Panthers in 2018 for $2.3B. The Broncos are apparently valued today at ~ $4.0B, and when that sale does go through, it will probably set a record for any North American sports franchise.
By comparison, a salary cap in the $200M range means that the capital cost to buy the team is going to be – probably – a 20x multiple of team salary costs. It might matter at the margin, but I think prospective buyers probably have bigger fish to fry.
Oh, I’m not talking about clearing the books for the sake of P&L.
I’m talking about clearing the books for a new owner who isn’t then contractually obligated to players they aren’t interested in keeping long-term. An owner who wants to build the team exactly how they want to, and not be hamstrung by what the previous regime built.
I liken it to an uber weather person buying a massive real estate property, but it’s nearly gutted and ready for them to put their own stamp on it. Usually, uber wealthy buy a property, full of really high end fixtures…and then gut it.
Why the super long extension for john then? If your idea is right about players why keep a gm who would have picked those players? Surely he would be first to go if you din’t like the players and direction of the team.
I’m with ya- do my fair share of M&A and it’s definitely logical.
I’ve also learned these NFL teams have a lot more going on operationally than just the player cap and on-field product. Franchises rarely change hands and billionaires love winning, but they love making money too. Shiny stadiums and ‘fan experiences’ sell tickets just as much as a good team does.
I wouldn’t be too happy if they’d draft Linderbaum, Jones and Corral (for example turn #9 and #41 into #18 #25 and draft Corral at 18, Linderbaum at 25 and Jones at 40).
I don’t see how this draft could be a win if they spend half or more their top50 picks for offense
I’m fine trading back from #9 to mid teens picking up maybe something around 45-55 or trade DK and pick up two early R2s. If we have #16, #40, #41, #51, I wouldn’t be against picking up two of these three and select a CB and DE or CB and LB
If we’d have #9, #35, #38, #40, #41 (I know NY likely won’t trade for DK, didn’t want to get into trade scenarios, so just as a baseline), I’d be totally fine getting 2 or maybe even 3 of these guys between 35 and 40, or even pick 2 and trade up to select on of them (#38 and #41 for #16 maybe).
But spending most or all of our R1/2 picks on these guys would be pretty bad in my opinion.
As for #9, I’d be REALLY happy with Stingley. He seems awesome. Didn’t watch many clips about him, but he seems a bit like Ramsey or Sherm, so he could be top of the CBs elite with good coaching. His ceiling seems really high and he has pretty good floor also.
I wouldn’t be as happy with Gardner. I think he has a good ceiling, but he might have a low floor. He seems crazy thin, which could result in injuries, and not sure how well he can handle bigger, stronger WRs. His highlights seem like opportunities well used, while Stingley’s seems like someone who creates opportunities for himself.
I’m not totally against Gardner, but I have major questions about him.
With our current roster I think Stingley could be our best pick for #9. JJ or KT might be more sought after position players, but we have at least Taylor and maybe Robinson. Not ideal, but at least have 1 guy that can be special.
I don’t see any outside CBs having that quality. Sure, Brown showed some nice plays, Jones also had his moments, but neither seems truly elite. Coleman played well for us, but he’s more of a nickel.
For me, #9 wishlist in that order:
Stingley, JJ, KT
All would make me really happy, and if any of them, would be available, I’d happily pick them. If none of them are available, I’d move down for sure. Garder to me is a mid teens pick, Mafe also, the rest is more of a late R1 pick.
#9 – Stingley
#40 – Tindall/Chenal
#41 – EDGE/C/OT/RB
would make me a happy camper
So after reading this article, listening to Pete’s press conference and reading the comments, its quite clear that many of us are unsure as to what direction Pete and John are going in the draft.
I think several of us have been yanked out of our happy place thinking Pete and John would focus on DE, CB and LB with at least two of the top three picks. Now it seems building the foundation for a solid defense may not be the plan.
Tony Pauline says they’re likely to trade down from #9. Rob thinks they might be targeting Tyler Linderbaum or Zion Johnson and possibly Matt Corral. I find this all very unsettling. If they go this route, gone is the thought of building a solid foundation for the defense of the future and drafting for the interior of the OL before addressing OT doesn’t make sense unless of course they are resigning Brown and Shell.
I don’t know for sure but, this all has the makings for the #1 pick in next years draft and leaves you wondering if their plan for the future is going to be more of the poor rebuilds of the past.
At this point, I’m not even sure Rob could come up with any kind of an accurate three round mock draft for the Seahawks.
Just to play contrarian, maybe it isn’t the going the route of the poor mans rebuild.
So this is complete projection, but say we trade back from 9 with say Pitt. Malik Willis is there and the Steelers are desperate, they pull a bears from a year ago and give a haul to Seattle to move back to pick 20 for a extra second this year (52) and a first next year. Like the bears, that pick next year ends up being a top 10 pick. Idk if that value works, but Bears traded from 20th pick as well, up to 11 and gave up a 5th, future first and future 4th.
KC needs to move up above packers with one of there firsts, so they give late 2nd and 30. No teams really QB needy between 20 and 30, so Hawks feel safe making that trade.
At 30 they take corrall, 40 they take Linderbaum and 41 take Lucas.
With 52 they take Ojabo (Dayo had dame injury, similarly graded, and dropped to 56). At 62 we take Adam Anderson.
72 Jaylen Armour-Davis
109 Metchie (based on injury and not running)
152 Dameon Pierce (based on 40 time)
153 Zach Carter (seahawks met with him)
You then have 3 first next year, and took advantage of guys that were injured this year that allowed you to grab them later than expected. THis could set up the ability to grab Will anderson next year.
Very unlikely, and probably may off. But a offensive minded with the first 3 picks, potential RT of future, Center to build around, and the QB to lead them. A great wr that was injured, a bruiser RB that has the attitude you want. Then you have an extremely talented Edge in Anderson, along with a top 15 talent in Ojabo, a talented CB and a DE/DT in Carter.
You could build around players like this.
It makes perfect sense if this draft is rich with IOL and poor with OT.
Rule #1 of the draft: don’t fight the board
Also, unless I misread Rob, he brought up Seattle going offense early (Zion/Linderbaum/Corral) instead of defense to alert us to the possibility of it. Not sure I took Rob to mean he thinks it will happen. Rob?
I’m not sure why you have worded it this way though Al.
I have my preferences and I think defense will be a big focus. But there’s a month to go so I’m going to discuss everything. There’s no ‘happy place’ to be yanked out of as far as I’m concerned.
As for the mock being accurate, well that’s the same every year
Well the narrative here has been a focus on the defense and drafting a solid foundation for the future. As you have said, this is the draft to do that. Thats a plan many of us can get behind.
I didn’t mean to suggest that by saying you think that they may be targeting offensive players in any way means your “preferences for defense will being a big focus” has in any way changed.
I went on to say “drafting for the interior of the OL before addressing OT doesn’t make sense unless of course they are resigning Brown and Shell”. I didn’t explain this well as my thoughts were I think they look at Austin Blythe as their starting center. As PFF reflected a solid campaign in 2020 for Blythe, who earned the No. 13 overall grade among centers and the No. 9 run-blocking grade with 1120 offensive snaps. And a better option than OG might be Abraham Lucas.
So my concern is that if Pete looks to draft a OG or C and a QB with their current early picks they will be going against the strength of this draft and most likely missing out on some top defensive players.
Now theres still a long ways to go and a lot can change between than and now, they could trade down for more picks and could add more with a DK trade. I guess I, like many would just like to know what their plan is with the hope that they don’t screw up this draft like they’ve done so many times in the past.
I hope I have clarified my thoughts a little better.
There’s no ‘narrative’ here.
Just me offering opinions and people joining in
That’s it.
No narrative.
There’s simply more high end defensive players than offensive players…for what Seattle needs.
Dulcich, olave, etc.. none are going gto change this team more than shoring up the defense.
I hate the word narrative and all it implies
Like we’ve concocted some kind of story and are trying to propagate it to the masses
It’s a good defensive draft. That’s an evaluation — and a fair one — not a narrative
Blythe signed a one year deal. He’s clearly a draft hedge if Seattle can’t take a C in this draft.
Rob, surprised to see you took Wydermyer completely of your TE’s list.
Not Rob, but look at the testing numbers.
Had no choice after his pathetic pro day
Amazing how quickly he fell off the board. I still think there is upside to this guy. He was basically a one-man show in his sophomore year. Last year, not so much…too many drops.
Are teams sleeping on Carson Strong? Are we?
Is he mobile? No. Does he step up in the pocket – yes. I can see some Tom Brady comparisons from college. Am I saying he’s Brady – absolutely not. Could he be a Ben Roethlisberger? Maybe.
If the Hawks want a game manager for a run focused offense who can thrown over the middle and take shots deep, Strong could work. I think they want a dual threat QB. But, it’s a consideration.
Check out these highlights:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0nYNgvwOHh0
He has bone on bone knees.
🎶 The knee bone’s connected to the…knee bone 🎶
Doesn’t matter. “In 2 or 3 seasons he’ll be an upgrade from Wilson” (as stated by someone above)
He can’t move
He’s a Ryan Mallett type, the type they’ve never gone for
His combine and Senior bowl were poor
And he has a massive knee issue
If Malik Willis is still on the board at #9, I could see a case for the Steelers trading up to get him from #20. Question is, how much extra compensation would be needed to get Seattle to trade down?
My guess is that Pitt’s 2nd round pick (#52) would get it done.
Then Seattle would have #20, #40, #41, and #52, but it would likely not be able to use its first pick on an edge rusher since all of the high-end talent would already be gone by #20.
Hypothetically, if that comes to pass and both Corral and Lindenbaum are still on the board at #20, who would you rather get? A possible franchise QB with Blythe in front of him, or add the offensive line building block in 2022 and hope to get a franchise QB in 2023?
I would prefer no QB’s taken until 5th round. Take BPA and don’t be cute. I’m fine with trading DK for a first rounder -plus or even a starting OL plus.
The bears moving up from 20 to 11 last year for Fields yielded more.
Why would the Steelers need to get up to 9 though? Where’s the immediate danger after Seattle?
Washington maybe? Who were the Bears trading up to get ahead of last year (honest question)?
Could there maybe be competition to trade up with Chargers who want the 9 pick, but not exactly for a QB (Davis) or a team that wants the 9 pick to grab one of the top CBs (Stingley or Gardner) both trying to get above the Jets. Tomlin was also at Corral’s proday, too, so if PC likes Corral, that would be the risk. What is the spot you would be comfortable taking Corral after watching his pro day and the talks of his personality?
I was listening to Brock/Salk this morning. Brock said he had no problem trading D.K. Metcalf. No surprise their. But what surprised me was that he would settle for the Jets number 10 overall pick in the draft. Only their 2nd 1st round pick. Period. That’s it. That surprised me. Especially when you consider the haul that Kansas City received from Miami. That surprised me. I know all about Jimmy Johnson NFL trade chart. But still only one first round pick for D.K. Metcalf.
The question is would D.K. Metcalf be happy going to the New York Jets? I know one thing. The Jets would have to OVER PAY Metcalf for him to sign a long term contract to go to New York.
That’s a great point. Jets are going to trade for DK and then what franchise tag him 3x or pay him a king’s ransom to play there?
I would guess that any trade would have to be contingent on DK agreeing to terms of a new contract before the Jets would trade for him. In order to avoid the huge loss of bargaining leverage (see Adams, Jamal).
I’m not following.
#10 could easily be turned into #29, #50, a 4th, a 4th and a 6th if you wanted. Probably much, much more if you have someone hungry on the line.
I think if he’s traded it’ll be to Green Bay. They have the ammo and they’re going to want to keep Aaron from spending a whole season whining about the loss of Adams on the Pat MacAfee show.
Green Bay pretty much spelt out their desire for DK this week
at least get a bidding war started!
If the Jets want DK bad enough (and it sounds like they do), let’s get pick #4 straight up instead of #10. This should almost guarantee a top edge and CB at #’s 4 and 9!
I feel that ridiculous low offer for DK. Why we over pay for player and get peanut for our players. I would not even talk less than 1st and 2nd.
The #10 pick is more valuable on trade value chart than what Kansas City got for Hill.
The Seahawks could always trade down from #10 a couple of times to get as many if not more picks than Kansas City. Also, maybe the Steelers would overpay in draft capital to move ahead of the Vikings at #12 and the Washington at #11 both QB needy teems. That is if Malik Willis is still there at #10.
Ask Steelers for #20, #52, and 1st round in 2023.
If I was the hawks id trade Dk for 35 from jets and a 2023 1st round pick. There’s a good chance that could be a top ten pick and would give a lot of ammo or qb next year.
Yeah, there should be some good offers for DK.
Too bad we don’t have an offensive minded head coach. It would have been fun seeing Wilson throwing to Dk for another 8 to 10 years.
I have now watched a few Ole Miss games and one thing is for certain…Corral is a tough SOB.
Playing Auburn on two bad ankles and getting a rushing TD.
Continuously being hammered when sliding (without penalties!?), and soooo many dropped passes.
Fearless in spreading it to all parts of the field, especially over the middle, with his quick release.
I watched an interview with him and he is most definitely from Ventura. Talks and walks like a Ventura kid. He also doesn’t put up with any BS, and has a disdain for the entitled.
Everything about that comment Roy make me want him in Seattle
I mentioned this a while back, but he left his high school after getting in a fight with Wayne Gretzky’s son and later saying that it was full of rich kids who’ll never work a day in their lives.
If nothing else, I’d say there’s little chance of him becoming a prima donna QB
Rob, I gotta ask, are you reconsidering taking Corral at #9 after watching his pro day?
No, that’s way too early
On a grit level, he’s up there.
On a talent level, not up there.
One thing that gives me hope is that when signing Desai we committed to bringing players for the D. If we use our first 3 picks say for QB, RB and WR, I could very well imagine Desai quitting. At least 2 of the first 3 picks should be D, hopefully a star DE or CB at 9 and a LB at 40. Then we can sign a RT or even a QB at 41 or after a trade down, I can live with that.
There are rumours he Jags may consider trading Cam Robinson after the draft if they get his replacement. Is he a fit for the Hawks and what is a reasonable price for a young LT on the franchise tag?
This is interesting. Cam is a good pass blocker. He’s 26. He’ll cost 14-18mil aav based on his $16mil franchise tag as a start in negotiations for a long term contract.
I would not give a 1st for him. Maybe a 2nd + 3rd. Also, I don’t think he can get out of his franchise tag once signed, and the Hawks do not have $16 mil in cap space. So, may not be feasible.
I would defiantly consider giving up a 2nd round pick for Cam.
While his combine numbers were kind of average, watching him he doesn’t look stiff or unathletic. Cam has long arms, 35 1/2 inches, which is longer than all the projected first round OT’s in this years draft. Perfect size for a OT at 6’6″ 320 lbs.
Here is a video of him mic’d up vs the Seahawks this year. If you read the comments in the video the Jags fans seem to like Cam.
https://youtu.be/DgsLViFySlU?t=1
I was never a fan pre draft and I’m not going anywhere near him after back to back franchise tags and the looming cost.
You have no means of keeping him beyond this year if you don’t have a massive deal ready to go. That would be crazy to give away anything for him
Raiders and Dolphins seemed to have deals ready for Adams and Hill, so I would expect the Seahawks would do the same.
If Cam is viewed, by the Seahawks, as a top-10 LT then $20 million per year is reasonable. $20 million for a LT is a better use of resources than $25 million on a WR who is underutilized.
That being said, I don’t know if Cam is considered a top-10 LT. But if he is, then I would prefer to trade a 2nd round pick for him and getting a proven player. As opposed to using a 1st or 2nd on LT prospect.
Robinson’s not very good.
It was a big surprise when they tagged him again.
Oh. Then disregard trading for him.
Jags do like to vastly overpay for players.
Rob, you’ve been continually disparaging the idea of taking Penning/Cross at #9 while simultaneously trumpeting the virtues of Abraham Lucas as a tackle prospect; and, with rumors of trade backs swirling, what do you think of Seattle trading back to the late-teens/early-twenties and taking Lucas?
I haven’t been ‘disparaging’ in the way you are suggesting. Charles Cross is massively overrated. Even Daniel Jeremiah only ranks him in the 20’s. There is absolutely no justification for taking him at #9. He shouldn’t even be in the conversation. For me it’s lazy — he plays tackle, Seattle needs a tackle. Bingo.
There’s nothing at all, based on tape and profile, to pair him with Seattle.
I’ve gone over my view of Penning a 100 times at this point. I’ve detailed what I like about him, why I think he does fit Seattle based on profile — but I’ve also relayed why I wouldn’t draft him at #9, the serious issues I’ve seen on tape and the Senior Bowl, why I think he might end up at guard and ultimately I don’t expect him to be the pick. He is not a sure-thing left tackle prospect.
What I have been ‘disparaging’ about is the increasing comments where people just say, ‘draft a tackle at #9’. I push back and say, who? The usual answer doesn’t include a name. So I probe further. Then someone says Ickey Ekwonu, who won’t be there. Then the person starts talking about how important the O-line is again, like I don’t appreciate that.
My issue is 100% with this whole ‘draft the position’ opinion which is a waste of time. We need to talk about the players physically in this draft. Tyron Smith isn’t in this draft. Derek Stingley, Sauce Gardner and Jermaine Johnson are.
The suggestion of ‘trumpeting the virtues’ of Abraham Lucas sounds a bit unnecessarily passive aggressive. I wouldn’t want to trade down that far but I do rate Lucas highly.
I think you’re reading too much into my choice of words, or maybe they were just poorly chosen. I’m not trying to deride your analysis; it all makes sense to me.
I was just floating the idea of targeting Lucas in the case that all the top talent is off the board at #9 (Johnson, Thib, Stingley, Gardner) and the Seahawks favor trading back and adding more picks for the rebuild. If Lucas looks like a potential cornerstone, why not?
Let’s be frank, Seattle really needs a tackle right now. Even if they sign a veteran, that position looks like a major concern.
Tackle is a major hole.
I’ve heard some media members speculate that there is a deal in place for Duane brown, but Seattle doesn’t want to show there hand for what they will do at 9.
Great content every day Rob! You started it, but getting higher on LB Tindall with everything I read about him and really hope he’s one of our day 2 picks. Just saw this on PFF. Didn’t know about the 1.55 10 yd. split, great overall + pass rush grade and pressures. “The 6-foot-2, 230-pound off-ball linebacker earned an 85.4 PFF grade across 474 snaps in 2021. He plays violently with picture-perfect blitzing technique, and his physical tools are off the charts. Tindall finished with 26 pressures on 105 such reps and an 81.5 pass-rush grade for the season. He’s like a heat-seeking missile tacking down ball carriers in space.
Tindall rose up some boards after a stellar combine performance that featured a 4.47-second 40, a 1.55-second 10-yard split, a 42-inch vertical, a 10-foot-9 broad and 4.18-second pro agility, but he’s still firmly in the Day 2 conversation with inexperience and still learning the position being the big reason why.”
https://twitter.com/i/status/1508811416786112526
Rob, send your resume to Jodi Allen. They need you in the room.
I’ve always said I’m very good at teas and coffees