What if the Seahawks want a big receiver?

January 31st, 2013 | Written by Rob Staton

John Schneider and Pete Carroll didn’t rate the 2012 class of pass-catchers, ignoring the group completely. Instead they tried out Terrell Owens, Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow. Edwards lasted a little while on the active roster before getting cut. Owens and Winslow didn’t make it out of camp.

I guess it was worth a try?

Of course they also made other moves — Jermaine Kearse ended the year on the active roster and Charly Martin saw snaps early in the season. Yet the amount of work put into this position — not to mention the turnover — suggests the Seahawks weren’t completely satisfied. Some form of draft (or free agent) investment seems likely.

So what are they looking for?

One of the first things Carroll did in Seattle was to invite Brandon Marshall on a sea-plane for a weekend’s visit. Marshall was a restricted free agent and could’ve been signed for a first round pick (Seattle had two in 2010). The Seahawks clearly didn’t think much of the price tag and probably hoped to get a deal done for their high pick in round two — #40 overall. Marshall eventually went to Miami for a pair of second rounders, while the Seahawks used their second round pick in the Charlie Whitehurst trade instead.

There were some rumours about interest in Vincent Jackson during his hold out in San Diego, although no offer was forthcoming when he eventually hit free agency last year. The Seahawks got two seasons out of Mike Williams, one more successful than the other. All three players have one thing in common — size.

Owens (6-3, 224lbs), Winslow (6-4, 240lbs) and Edwards (6-3, 215lbs) are all big targets. And it’s a hole the Seahawks never really filled. Despite spending big money on Sidney Rice (6-4, 205lbs) — he’s more tall and lean than physical.

Seattle’s options at receiver seemed to look brighter every week with Russell Wilson growing into a franchise quarterback. By the end of the season, Rice, Golden Tate, Zach Miller and Doug Baldwin were featuring regularly. Anthony McCoy got a lot of focus in certain games where he was a bigger feature in the gameplan. Wilson was spreading it around nicely.

Yet despite all of that, you can’t help but watch him throwing to Larry Fitzgerald and Vincent Jackson in the Pro Bowl and just wish he had that big bodied, physical receiver for the redzone. It’s the only thing missing within a balanced and talented offense. They’ve got speed, power, a good offensive line and a tight end playing as well as any in the league at the end of the season.

You’re not going to find another Fitzgerald in the draft any time soon, perhaps not even for a generation. Jackson has also proven to be one of the more productive receivers in the NFL. But that doesn’t mean the Seahawks can’t still find their own version.

Is a big target more likely than some of the other wide-out options available in this class? Someone who will consistently win in single coverage? Someone who can move despite playing above 6-0? A difference maker on the field because he’s difficult to match-up against, you need height, strength and power to combat his skill set? A player with strong hands who can act as a safety net?

I could spend every day until April telling you how good Robert Woods, Markus Wheaton and DeAndre Hopkins are. All three share similar characteristics when it comes to attitude, competitive nature and an ability to make big plays. Woods and Wheaton have speed and agility, Hopkins is Mr. Consistent. I could write an article tomorrow saying why all three would be great picks for Seattle.

At the same time, are they going to improve Seattle’s receiving group substantially to warrant the high investment? Do they bring a different skill set to the table?

Wheaton and Woods aren’t going to win many battles against big, physical corners. You’ll have to manufacture their production slightly, using a lot of WR screens, bubble screens and shorter routes. You’re looking to get them the ball in space, set up blockers. You’ll try deep shots but it’s very difficult to run in behind a modern NFL secondary, so can they compete in the air if they have to come back for the ball? Golden Tate has shown he can do that despite his size. He’s also a playmaker with the ball in space. Do the Seahawks necessarily need another?

Hopkins has superb hands and body control, but he could do with adding some size. Roddy White is around 10lbs heavier than Hopkins. If he can get bigger without it impacting his mobility and speed, then he could be great. Whether he can have an impact at his current size remains to be seen. Sidney Rice has some of the characteristics you see in Hopkins, although Rice is three or four inches taller and he’s faster. Hopkins could be a route runner at the next level and he finds ways to get open. He’d be a reliable target for Russell Wilson, but is he crying out for reliability? Apart from the game at San Francisco, Seattle’s receivers were pretty consistent catching the ball in 2012.

There aren’t many big targets available in this draft class unless you look at the tight ends, but there is one player who could be of some interest. I’m not a big fan – as noted in this article back in November. He’s 6-2 and around 210lbs. He plays with a competitive edge. He will go up to get the football. He has strong hand and looks like a solid possession receiver with some athletic qualities. And he could offer another dimension to the passing offense.

For the last few weeks I’ve been grading Keenan Allen as a second round pick. I still think he probably will be a second round pick, but you look around the internet at the ‘high profile’ draft personalities and a lot of them rank Allen among the top juniors. Only this week Scott Pioli listed him among his favourite underclassmen this year.

Undoubtedly Allen suffered due to poor quarterback play at California (although it was his decision to play with his brother, he had plenty of alternative options). He’s an athletic player who could’ve gone to play safety for Nick Saban in Alabama. He’s extremely competitive and with a competent NFL signal caller we might see his best football at the next level.

However, a lack of elite speed (he was only running a 4.57 in high school and has since added weight), injury concerns that ended his season prematurely and needs elsewhere could push him down the board. I think round two, others think high first round. It could end up being somewhere in the middle — as in the late first.

The Cal quarterback Zach Maynard is so limited as a downfield passer, we rarely got to see Allen tested on deeper routes or competing in the air. Cal essentially had Allen run a lot of shorter, inside routes almost always coming back to the quarterback. When Maynard was asked to throw deep, he really struggled for accuracy and velocity. In the video above you see him missing Allen downfield against USC, unchallenged when he was wide open. We might not get a full appreciation of Allen’s potential until he takes the field as a pro.

There’s a good chance the Seahawks will wait until later in the draft to add a receiver, particularly given the needs on defense with the pass rush. I still wanted to throw Allen’s name out there tonight. I don’t think it would’ve gone unnoticed how good Wilson looked throwing to those big targets in the redzone in Hawaii. If they want to add a different type of receiver to this roster, then Allen could be one to monitor. Personally, I’d wait to see if he lasts until round two.

117 Responses to “What if the Seahawks want a big receiver?”

  1. Ben Harbaugh says:

    Maybe Wilson’s emergence has changed the perspective. However, last year’s class was stocked with big receivers and none were selected by Seattle.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Schneider mentioned after the 2012 draft he didn’t think much to the receiver class. He’s already given the 2013 group a better appraisal.

      • SunPathPaul says:

        Yes, I was hopeful when I heard him asked about the 2013 draft, and the FIRST thing he said was how it had a VARIETY of different playmakers at WR! WooHoo!

        I see that they are smart enough to know that now they lucked out on RW, if they give him some tools, he will take them a LONG way!
        I like that he said playmakers… I will still fight for the electric little Tavon Austin. I just rewatched the first round possible WR tapes, and he BY FAR is the biggest playmaker! He has the yards to prove it… He makes guys miss so bad. All we would have to add would be a few pistol plays, read option plays, slot plays, play action role out plays, and he would strike gold much of the time. I know he is small, but just rewatch the tape and he is a ‘playmaker’!

        Why? There are a lot of 6-3, 6-4, 6-5 guys in the draft- but only 1 Lightning Rod guy like this. His KR/PR ability alone is amazing… So I want the unique dynamic guy because of “what he CAN do”, not to avoid him because of what he CAN’T do…

        Brandon Kaufman 6-4/215, Courtney Gardner 6-3/220, Jordan Reed 6-3/243(TE), Cobi Hamilton 6-2/210, Aaron Dobson 6-2/205, Vance McDonald 6-4/262(TE)…all these guys and more will be possible in R2-7!!

        I say go for the unique total yards package guy, and grab a big guy you trust a little later…
        For all of you going, “No way, we need the big guys!” I ask only one thing… Watch this tape one more time and tell me honestly that if he had 50% the success he did there at WV, he wouldn’t de extremely effective for Seattle!

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH0FGpQZZnw&feature=player_embedded

        Let me hear you! Ideas?

        • Zach says:

          I’ve seen that video along with several others of Tavon several times. I too at first had a man crush but settled down to reality after awhile. First of all you can count on one hand the amount of times he was at the line as a receiver, 95% of the time he was their primary RB, and when he did receive he didn’t get much separation either. I see him as more of a gimmicky Reggie Bush type that in my opinion isn’t worth our first pick. I would love to see him in some pistol/play-action type stuff but I still don’t think he will be as good against NFL type defensive players. Maybe the Patriots give him a shot but if I see Tavon’s name called at #25 I will be very surprised.

          • SunPathPaul says:

            Hey Zach, I think it is a long shot maybe too, but imagine how the NE Pats would use this guy…Imagine what they would get out of him… I just know we have RW- a Brady/Rodgers/Manning-type quality football ‘mind’, and together they would figure out some great chemistry…

            I think his ‘speed and shiftiness’ will completely transfer to the next level- he is that fast and talented.
            Will he plowed on occasion, maybe, but like RW I sense his low center of gravity and elusiveness will protect him. I never remember seeing him take a BIG shot, so his size/durability I think would last.

            What if we take a DT/DE in R1, and a lot of the best big WR are gone, would you go for him in R2 if he was there?? Get the BIG TE next round or 2??

            • Zach says:

              If we got ” our guy ” in the first round at DT or in the FA market then I say heck ya take Austin in the second. I can just imagine Tavon running behind Z.Miller and skirting for like 35 yards. I agree that he has an uncanny ability to not get hit very hard and wisely runs out of bounds often. Believe me I love Austin as a second round pick and think he would make our team that much more fun to watch. I would take him just for Leon’s replacement really.

              • SunPathPaul says:

                Nice to finally hear someone that gets it. I, like you, just imagine how much fun the Seattle Seahawks would look with Russell Wilson and Tavon Austin running all over the place! Austin would break big plays every game, like RW does…then Lynch and Turbin just keep crushing the defense with sheer will! Plus using Austin in a ‘few RB plays’ would rest Lynch, who I think needs to more and more be cautious about wearing himself down. Plus those few key fumbles are something to be aware of…

                I think the pistol/read zone with Austin, just a few times here and there, would be not only successful with two speedy guys like Austin and Wilson, but would be a great “change Up” type of setup…

                What you think?

          • Nate Dogg says:

            It’s not gimmicky, but he definitely seems more Sproles than Harvin.

            • SunPathPaul says:

              Exactly! and look at what Sproles did two years ago when NO had their Head Coach…

              87 rushes for 603 yards…
              86 receptions for 710 yards…
              40 returns for 1,089 yards…

              a total offense production of: 2,402 total yards, from one guy!!!

              I love me some Sproles…and he is just 5-6, 190… Tavon is 5-9, 179…and I’m sure would add a few pounds in the NFL’s training system… so say 190 like Sproles…

              Tavon’s speed (sub 4.40) and agility are like no other in this draft… if he was a Sproles, imagine what that 2,402 yards from one guy would do to our offense! Yes, I know he won’t get as many touches as Sproles in the pass heavy NO offense, but alas- he would LIGHT IT UP!

              So thank you for the Sproles comparison… that even more so makes him a round 1 pick due to that versatility and sheer talent…

              • Michael says:

                Wouldn’t really like it in R1, but would absolutely LOVE it in R2. That being said, I dont think he makes it to #57

                • SunPathPaul says:

                  Not sure he makes it through the END of round 1, seriously. New England wants to move on from an aging Wes Welker that they blame for losing the SB last year- not to mention his paycheck as one of the best WR ever coming due… If not NE, then Houston maybe, etc… but if he did make it through the end of R1, and we took a DT/DE or maybe TE… then I say trade up in round 2 with Flynn/Leon Wash. and get Tavon Austin…

                  I admit, I’m partial on this one… we believe in the ‘too short’ Russell Wilson now, and I think if we grabbed him, we would quickly believe in the ‘too small’ WR Austin…

              • Nate Dogg says:

                I’m not sure this team needs another running back though. You’re talking about taking snaps away from Marshawn.

                • SunPathPaul says:

                  Not a bunch of snaps, but yes- Marshawn needs to be preserved, he runs so damn hard! We use Tavon to wear them out a bit chasing him around, then Lynch crushes them. Remember he was listed as “probable” with a ‘back issue’ for a while in the year. We have Turbin, and Leon W is our 3rd- kinda similar generally to Austin. So let OC Bevell use Austin as a ‘moving piece’ to annoy and exhaust the defense. He is fast and would piss them off every time he makes them miss…

                  And like I say, strike first and hard, then wear them out slowly long term! Best of both worlds

                  • JW says:

                    The size limits him in more than just what he can do with the ball, though.
                    You don’t want a 170 lb man responsible for pass protection very often. And, if he’s not going to pass block and he’s going to get the ball almost every time he’s back there, the defense thanks you in advance for the predictability. There are issues beyond strength, durability, ability to get open, or QB visibility etc, that come into play when you’re that small and in the back field.

                    You get really one dimensional, really fast. You end up being a ‘tell’ more than a decoy.

                  • SunPathPaul says:

                    Respectfully Disagree JW…

                    He would be used by Bevell with many looks, in motion, all kinds of stuff…
                    And as the Defense keeps creeping in to try and combat his speed, then run Rice on a deep post and get 6. It would all come down to what Darrell Bevell could create.

                    Imagine him and Lynch in the backfield, Rice/Tate wide.

                    The defense would have their hands full…

        • Phil says:

          I’m a huge Tavon Austin fan. I think he’s an offensive coordinators dream because of all the ways he can be used. Just get him into space and he looks like a water bug, changing directions on a dime. Put him out wide, or in the slot, with an empty backfield — then shift him into the backfield where a LB has to cover him on pass plays. Use him to return kicks, run screens. Use him like Welker or Amendola in the slot. Run the read-option with him. Play him wide and run reverses with him. I think his presence on the field adds another level of complexity for the offense and another level of concern for opposing defenses.

          Having said all that — nothing is more important in this off season than making a quantum leap in terms of the pass pressure we generate with our defense. So, if we can meet this goal through FA or trades, then I say full speed ahead on drafting Austin.

          • Frank says:

            Sproles bench 391# squat 818#. 5’6″ 190# is a huge man, a power house. MJD and Sproles are closer to each other in ability than Austin. Austin is a stud, no doubt just Sproles is a freak of nature at 190 pounds. Golden Tate seems like he’s that open space playmaker for us and really coming into his own.

            • SunPathPaul says:

              Tate is kinda like Austin, but not really… Imagine a defense having to prepare for both!

              Sproles may be 190, be Austin is 180… He could and would probably bulk up a bit for the NFL.

              I STRONGLY want us to get a DT and DE in FA. WHY? Cause we know what they can do at the next level! We don’t have a straight up gamble like the draft can be. I’d rather use a R1 on Tavon Austin this year, than another Bruce Irvin…

              I know we would get at least a 1,000 yards out of Austin no matter what…
              Imagine if you could take a guy that guaranteed you 1,000-2,500 yards a season, “now, would that be something you might be interested in?” LOL

            • Ray graham says:

              Totally agree with frank on golden. He NEVER goes down at first contact, I can see the hawks designing a third down package around his running ability. Baldwin will bounce back and rice has had his shoulders fixed. I’d love to see the hawks pick up a joker te in the 3-4 like jordon reed AFTER shoring up the D-line /will lb in 1-2!

              • Ray graham says:

                But I gotta say that film on tavon is to drool over OMG!!!

                • SunPathPaul says:

                  4sure to drool over…and my point is we want our R1 pick to be a PLAYMAKER!

                  That would be opposite of Bruce Irvin. He had a decent season, but compared to how Austin would affect this team? Not even close!

                  My biggest point about Tavon is that there is NO ONE else like him in this draft…
                  Yes other good WR exists, but they don’t do what he does, like how Sproles is unique.

                  That is why I double down on him and go for it… We can get another big WR (we Stephen Williams 6-5,200 recently) later in the draft, but only ONE Tavon Austin is in this draft…and he won’t make it down to us at our 2nd round pick unless we trade up.

                  • JW says:

                    while somewhat similar players, comparing sproles to tavon is a bit misguided, both because they are different builds and they are in very different offensive systems.

                    If they go that route for a player, you can get essentially the same player in Marquise Goodwin – who is faster, or Kerwynn Williams- who is a bit slower but also very slippery- more of a runner and 20 lbs heavier- in the mid rounds. For as few of touches as he’d be likely to get, it makes a lot more sense to me to go that route and target the bigger receiver who can compete for passes and doesn’t need specially designed plays, earlier.

                  • SunPathPaul says:

                    If they pass on Tavon, which is likely, Marquise Goodwin is a great option I agree. He looked pretty good in the senior bowl, and I didn’t know he was 4.26-4.36 fast!
                    That’s a touch faster than Austin, but Austin’s ‘stop on a dime’ shiftiness is unique.

                    We got 6-5 Stephen Williams last week, so with a joker TE and another WR late, we could flush out our WR corp… We need depth. Baldwin is ok, and McCoy keeps dropping passes at crucial moments, so 3 new toys would be great!

  2. Nolan says:

    Nice work rob, curious what are Allen’s strengths vs weaknesses?

    • Rob Staton says:

      Strengths are competitive streak, won’t back down, the kind of player you want in a big game. Decent size/athleticism combo. Not a great speed guy but enough to make some YAC if he gets open. Weaknesses are not elite size/speed, very little evidence of big play ability but this might be down to the QB. Will he run better than a 4.55-4.6? Body catches a bit too much. Balance is shaky after the catch sometimes. Rounds off routes sometimes. No evidence on tape he’ll high point the ball on deep throws or redzone because Cal never tried it in the games I saw.

      • Cade says:

        May not be a fair comparision because the two are such different players but ..

        Tates ability to make a catch and then make people miss in a phone booth.. his agility as compared to Allen falling down after catches is pretty stark. Makes me nervous about his athleticism in general.

      • Nolan says:

        Yesterday you mocked Justin Hunter to the hawks in the 2nd how does Allen compare size/speed/skill wise to Allen? Thanks in advance for your time rob

        • Zach says:

          I think of Allen as a terrific 3rd down guy, which the Seahawks would love to have. Hunter is strong, fast, and 6-4in tall. The problem seems to be mental with Hunter, he already has all the tools, he just doesn’t know how to use them quite yet. I think PC, Sherm and the boys would be the perfect set up for Hunter to grow fast. I believe out of all the receivers in this draft he has the highest ceiling…..yes that includes Patterson.

  3. dave crockett says:

    A smallish, Doug Baldwin-type that could interest Seattle in the UDFA market is Missouri’s TJ Moe. As you know, I believe wholeheartedly that Seattle could use a bit more Mizzou on the roster :)

    I kid. But, I have read that Moe has played well so far in the Texas v. the Nation practices. He had the misfortune of playing through the transition from Blaine Gabbert to more of a running QB in James Franklin. So, his best year was as a Soph., Gabbert’s final season. You get the lazy Wes Welker comparison, but Baldwin may be more accurate. He catches everything. He’s good in tight spaces and sneaky quick.

  4. Nate Dogg says:

    You’ve mocked Hunter to Seattle a few times, but no mention of him here. Any particular reason?

    • SunPathPaul says:

      After watching the videos of top WR again, he is good, but not quite like some of the others…

      I like that he is a high jumper, and his speed, but also it would concern be to take a leaner tall WR that is coming of a knee injury… Why not take a guy thats fresh and unhurt out of college…

  5. scott says:

    I love the article as I do almost all that you write. I think there are plenty of options for Seattle to creatively
    Draft receivers in the latter rounds. only thing I don’t really agree with is that SF was the only bad receiving ga
    game. Let us not forget the drops in the first Arizona game in the red zone. Also Baldwin handing the rams the ball in the first meeting. I’ve come to trust rice and Tate but I fear consistency issues with Baldwin.

  6. Clayton says:

    Rob,
    In a recent post you wrote an article on Courtney Gardner, and I was wondering how you would compare him to Keenan Allen? Who would you rather have?

  7. Kenny Sloth says:

    But Allen isn’t even big, heavy, or fast! I’d rather have that Gator Jordan Reed. He looks like a great Joker.

    • Recon_Hawk says:

      True, but he’s a good combination of all those. I also think he’s more athletic than he was able to put on tape this last year, but watch 2011 and he made some nice YAC plays. He also returned punts at Cal.

      • SunPathPaul says:

        I agree that the joker TE Reed would be better than Allen.. Firstly, he can really block-
        Secondly, him moving around the line, paired with RW’s ability to read mismatches, would be lethal!

        Didn’t know he also did PR…hmmm

        • Recon_Hawk says:

          I wasn’t very clear, but I was referring to Allen in my comments, not Reed. I’d like Reed as well, but just not in the first round.

  8. Recon_Hawk says:

    Great writeup Rob. I’ve been a big fan of Allen to the Seahawks for awhile now, a lot because of the same reasons you wrote about above. He’s fairly versatile, able to play slot and outside (similar to Rice) and is a strong, competitive guy that would easily be our most physical receiver on our team. I don’t think he’ll reach #25, but I hope he does, just so the Hawks have at least the option of drafting the top player in that big-target role.

    By chance the Seahawks pass on Allen at 25 and he doesn’t make it to our 2nd round pick, I hope they do their research and background check on Da’Rick Rogers, a receiver who will be around in the 2nd rd that really fits the same big-target role (and the upside to be even better than Allen).

    He’s a combination of speed, toughness, and athleticism mixed into a 6′ 3″ 210 body. If anyone gets the chance, watch his TD catch & run against Oregon. It’s eerily similar to Cordarrelle Patterson ability to change field direction without losing speed. And his toughness on tape rivals Allen, which you got to love.

    His main downside, as most know, are character concerns. I have a feeling he probably doesn’t fit into our locker room, which is a shame, but how the hell do I know for sure. Like I said, I hope the front office does their work on him cause he’d be a stud on this team.

    • Nolan says:

      What did Rodgers do? Worse then Bruce Irvin or Lerpy hill?

      • Clayton Russell says:

        Recon, I agree with you and posted on Da’Rick Rogers a couple times in the last few weeks. Rogers if anyone remembers started his career at Tennessee then was kicked off the team for a combination of reasons. He is big 6’2 or 6’3 , physical and held his own against strong SEC competition and kept it going when he moved on to the OVC at Tenn Tech. If you compare Hunter to Rogers ( Hunter is taller, faster and has less off field issues but did have ACL surgery and sometimes drops key passes v Rogers, more physical, good hands and decent speed that comes with off field issues and moodiness.) Watch some youtube film and you can see both are great candidates for Seattle it just depends what you want to settle for based upon their skill sets and history. Hunter will be gone in the first or early second while Rogers will probably be around in the 3rd.

      • Recon_Hawk says:

        Not sure how he compares to Irvin. Irvin lived a semi-criminal youth but other than that, once in college he straightened up and always came across as a great teammate and guy.

        Rodgers’ concerns are more recent. After his sophomore year 2years ago he was indefinitely suspended from Tennessee after multiple failed drug tests, which I think was for weed, so I guess he compares to Hill that way lol. I’ve also heard from Tennesee fans he argued with coaches and was more of a me-first guy. I don’t know if that’s true, tho.

        I heard no bad reports from this season this year at Tennessee Tech, so maybe he’s come around. I think he can really help himself in this draft with his interviews. He’s got the skills that same team will take a chance on him.

        • RockyRaccoon says:

          I like Rogers in the 2nd or 3rd for Seattle to get a bigger, dynamic, play maker. If there is something Seattle has shown, it is a propensity to let character issues in the past take a back seat to talent.

          ComPETEing, from what I can tell, is fairly effective at motivating individuals who have had issues with other coaches/philosophies in the past. It seems like a lot of the character concerns, especially with the WR type, come from a belief that their talents are superior to all else and therefore the team NEEDS them. Therefore they can act out because they don’t feel like they will be let go.

          In Seattle this doesn’t work. Plus a coach like Pete is a players coach who guys respect and will straighten up for. That being said there is already a very strong locker room in Seattle despite the youth and I envision the Seahawks being able to bring in player with more character concerns because they know they have a solid locker room with a lot of quality leaders.

          A diva WR is one thing in college, but when he has grown men getting on his ass like Big Red, or Marshawn, or Mike Rob, then I think he will figure some stuff out. Not to mention he has a class act in Big Sid to show him how to play WR in the NFL on AND off the field.

  9. NMD says:

    Would love Keenan Allen on the Seahawks, I think he would thrive with Russell Wilson.

    • Zach says:

      I agree. He would be our biggest third down guy.

      • Bishop says:

        If it’s Allen in round one, I wouldn’t be a fan of it. Seattle already spent a first round pick last year on a situational pass rusher, why spend another first round pick on a situational receiver?

        • SunPathPaul says:

          That 1st round value at WR is best IMO with Tavon Austin. You get a WR/Slot WR/RB/KR/PR all in one. I can imagine RW and him ‘scrambling’ all over the field for major points…

  10. SunPathPaul says:

    I know it doesn’t mean much, but just for the sake of the strategy PC/JS may be taking in the draft, JS was pretty happy to sign the 6-5 / 200lb, Stephen Williams. So one guy is all ready there for whatever that’s worth. He reportedly had a good rookie camp with AZ, but guys, he is behind Fitzgerald, Andre Roberts, Michael Floyd (R1 pick), and Early Doucet… so as an UDFA he had a lot of competition.

    Hopefully he and RW become fast friends and start working out in a short time here over the summer.
    That could do it- RW has the leadership and TALENT to made those around him better- just look at how our WR corp looks compared to last year!! They have bloomed…so I think anyone they grab will prob be a worker and RW will take them in and make some magic happen!!

    • RockyRaccoon says:

      somehow I missed this. Was this a futures contract or something?

      • SunPathPaul says:

        He was a URFA, and I guess technically we signed him like you say, because March 15 is the beginning I believe of FAgency…

        JS seemed pretty excited about it…”We Got Him!”

        Just more to comPete like you say!

  11. Stuart says:

    Plan A
    R-1 DT Floyd
    R-2 TE Reed

    Plan B
    R-1 TE Ertz
    R-2 WR Wheaton

    • Zach says:

      Good plans.

      Plan C

      R-1 Kawaan Short
      R-2 Khaseem Greene

    • SunPathPaul says:

      I would like those…

      How about FA additions: DE’s :Avril / Johnson / Kruger, and DT’s: Starks / Bryant – (One of each category…)

      Then:
      R1 Tavon Austin
      R2 Jordan Reed

      R4-7 (with multiple 5/6/7 picks) whomever they like of the late round big WR-

      Kaufman 6-4, 214/ Courtney Gardner 6-3, 220 / maybe Aaron Dobson 6-2, 205/ Cobi Hamilton 6-2, 210- if they make it that far down…

      or maybe another TE – BJ Stewart 6-5, 255/ Joseph Fauria 6-7, 255…

      I studied the best offenses that Brees/Rodgers/Brady/P.Manning and Matt Ryan are in are all “flooded” with good talent and depth at WR/TE/flexible RB sproles type guys…

      If they add depth and sheer TALENT like this, it will evolve quickly due to RW’s intensity, and become powerful over time… Imagine how inexpensive this offense would be… and if we trade Flynn/Leon, our cap is still good to save our really good players in a few years, AND we can afford those FA DT/DE’s!!!

      Like?

      • SunPathPaul says:

        …and we take Jordan Hill in R3 if he is there/ maybe trade up for him. Use all the last picks, save that one late WR pick, on Defense and O-line if we want…

        And one SPECIAL player not to let go – Dustin Hopkins!! Florida State Kicker!! He has a 60+ yard leg…
        We NEED this also…then our pretty good special teams with Dustin Hopkins and Tavon Austin would become more like an Elite team….

        • Colin says:

          Is his accuracy good? If the guy can’t put em through the uprights, it really doesn’ t matter how good the leg is.

          • SunPathPaul says:

            Oh yes!

            On November 18, 2012, Hopkins set the NCAA Division I FBS record for career points scored by a kicker at 442 points with a 26 yard field goal in the second quarter versus the Maryland Terrapins. Hopkins would finish the day with six more points upping the record to 448 points.

            He has been consistent and clutch many times at the end of games. He hit a 55 yard FG to win against Clemson this year…

            He is accurate, and young… he would be inexpensive and be around for years if he ‘kicked ass’!
            LOL

            • Zach says:

              I think he was like 5/5 in kicks 50+ yards last year.

              • SunPathPaul says:

                The FL ST site says 5/6, longest being 56! That’s a SERIOUS shift from what we did this year.
                Punting instead of a 50 yard FG?? Really…Man – this Could be huGe!

  12. Ben says:

    There’s this guy named Marcus Davis coming out of Virginia Tech this year, he’s 6’4″, 230, and runs a 4.4 forty. Most of the problem with him is his work ethic, he tends to slack on his run blocking and his route running. That’s why most people rate him as a 4th-6th rounder. I could see PC and JS picking this guy up in the 3rd, telling him to work or leave (and Russell could keep holding his rookie conferences). If he pans out we have a guy who’s just as big, and just a little slower than Megatron, with good hands, and if he works at it, another guy to run block on the outside, creating a mismatch with the cornerbacks.

    • Bishop says:

      You read up on him from CBS too, huh? I saw his size and I saw his projected 40 time and thought “what’s wrong with this guy?” I can only find a couple catches from him but that’s it. Guess we’ll find out when he performs at the combine

  13. Zach says:

    Seahawks just signed K Carson Wiggs, undrafted kicker that went 6 of 13 on 50+ yarders.

    • Zach says:

      My bad, I guess we signed him last year. Never knew.

    • Phil says:

      All of you folks that want to dump Haushka seem to forget that in 2012, he never missed a kick inside the 50. You can have the biggest leg in the game, but if you can’t convert the chances you get, forget it….

      • SunPathPaul says:

        Trust me, I don’t want to replace the sturdy for the flashy… We want both!

        Make ‘em all when close, boot it thru when long!!!

        It’s kind of embarrassing to watch our offense drive down, then punt instead of hitting a 51 yard FG for 3 points… That’s why I would use a late round pick on this guy… not to mention we would save some cash for spending on our FA D-linemen, and have a Kicker for years!

  14. Snoop Dogg says:

    Hey Rob,
    How about Chris Harper? He is 6’1″ 228lbs., with an estimated 4.4 forty. He got some hype at the senior bowl, but it seems to have died down. Could be a potential steal later in the draft. He’s an ex-quarterback, with good hands and is solid mentally. However, his production was only mild because he was inside the Kansas State run first offense. What do you think?

    • Attyla the Hawk says:

      I would be amazed if he goes under 4.5 in the 40. Of particular interest will be his split times. He has a longer gait so his 40 time is probably going to look a lot better than his splits. He’s not particularly quick but his speed accelerates smoothly late.

      He’s a terrific prospect and one I like very very much. I believe his hype died down specifically because his speed isn’t great, and he isn’t a separation kind of guy.

      He is however a fantastic ball fighter. He is physically very very strong and will get a ball even when blanketed. His hands are very strong and he catches balls with is hands, not body. For a coach whose first law is, “It’s all about the ball”, Harper fits in perfectly. He treats balls in the air like it’s his meal ticket.

      The comparisons to Anquan Boldin are pretty close. Both have that ability to just get the ball. Harper isn’t slow, but not fast either.

      He has size, physicality and outstanding receiving skill. I consider him a guy like Hopkins, with more size and a bit less speed.

  15. SunPathPaul says:

    I know the game has shifted over the years, but the chemistry between Zorn and Largent took them to a special place. With a young Russell Wilson, and knowing how serious and dedicated he is, it seems the chemistry between him and the WR and TE picked would be of maximum importance…

    When Largent retired, he held all major NFL receiving records, including: most receptions in a career (819), most receiving yards in a career (13,089), and most touchdown receptions (100), although 15 of the catches, 261 of the yards, and 3 of the touchdowns came against replacement players. He was also in possession of a then-record streak of 177 consecutive regular-season games with a reception.

    Largent was 5-11, 187… I know it was the 80’s everybody, but my point is that the chemistry between players is often what takes that group effort to the next level of let’s say: Dynasty…

    So this makes our jobs hard, cause our fun play here is void of the actual interviews and personal connections that John Schneider and Pete Carroll get to make with these guys…

    That element might be the most important element for that chemistry on offense with Russell Wilson and Lynch to take us into that next stratosphere…

    • SunPathPaul says:

      Here is the video of the 10th most QB-WR combo – Largent and Zorn… Old and with a little ad in the middle, but for those Seahawk fans that want a ‘spice of the past’, it is a great video!

      Imagine – years from now there will be a Russell Wilson to ________ Video!!!!

      Ha ha hah! Who knows Who??
      Can’t wait to find out!

      EnJoy

  16. Zach says:

    I saw an article where the Ravens GM said one of his most important questions he asks himself when signing/drafting players is……..will this player specifically help us beat the Steelers.

    This struck me as one dimensional at first but it really does male sense. We should do the same with the 49ers. We play them twice a year plus will probably end up playing them in the playoffs more often than not. I was thinking primarily about fast Linebackers to hold Kaep from running to much, and smart DEs that have a good sense of the Read. The first player that came to mind was OLB Arthur Brown. He is smart and seems to move so quickly towards running QBs that it just seemed like a great player to have against 49ers. My favorite OLB is actually Khaseem Greene, but not against the 9ers.

    Any thought?

    • Zach says:

      I think Bryce Brown for the Eagles is his brother. Good stock.

    • Phil says:

      Zach – your thinking is right on! For the Seahawks, the road to the Superbowl runs through SF. If we can’t regularly beat the Niners, we probably won’t win our division and we won’t be playing at home in the playoffs.

  17. Stuart says:

    I like the kicker that was brought up by Sun Path Paul. Remember a few years ago when the Raiders drafted Janokowski in round 1 from…wait for it…wait for it…Florida State. With those credentials why would you not spend a 6th rounder to secure that leg for camp? Seems alot of kickers come in as UDFA but we know how critical a kicker can be to our success. Our current kicker is accurate inside the 40 but I would love to have that pushed out into the 50’s. Bring in the big leg, yes please!

    • Zach says:

      I agree. Since there will be only a few spots for rookies this year it would be a good idea to pick up the best kicker. We really do need a bigger leg.

  18. Cysco says:

    I just don’t see any obvious target for the FO at the WR spot in the draft. We know/assume that PC really wants a big, fast, physical receiver. There really aren’t any that are worthy of an early pick. Because of this, I can imagine Ertz being a very attractive target for the Hawks in round 1. After that, Courtney Gardner seems like a perfect PC/JS pick in the 5th round.

    If Garner was able to hack it academically and was able to follow through and go to OU, he probably becomes a top WR prospect due to high-profile school, impressive measurables etc. This guy has PC/JS written all over him.

    Of course if I’m in the front office my first order of business on monday would be to place a call to Arizona and inquire about Fitz. After they tell me he’s not available, then I start making plans for the draft.

  19. Phil says:

    Rod – I’m off topic, but forgive me.

    The local paper had an article this morning about how the Ravens are using their backup QB, Tyrod Taylor, to mimic Kaepernick in practices. I’m not sure that Taylor ran the read-option at Virginia Tech, but I know he’s known as a running QB.

    You have mentioned that one of the priorities for the Seahawks this off-season is to find a backup to RW who would run the same offense if he was called in to play. With this goal in mind, what about swapping backup QBs with the Ravens, Flynn for Taylor? What would it take for the Ravens to pull the trigger on such a swap? Would it make sense to swap #1 picks, or how about adding a #7 pick to the pot? I’m not really that familiar with Taylor, so maybe the whole idea is bogus to start with. But, I like thinking outside the box ..

    • Phil says:

      ROB, not ROD!

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think it’ll be a difficult deal to pull off. This week the talk has been that Flacco wants $19-20m per year in his next deal. If he wins the Superbowl, he might get it. That’ll make it tough to justify trading for a backup on $5.25m in 2013 and $6.25m in 2014. Taylor’s contract is a lot more friendly for the backup position and Flacco has not missed time since turning pro.

  20. Ralphy says:

    Here are the numbers from Larry Fitzgerald’s workout at Pitt in 2004.

    Height-6-3 1/8

    Weight-221 lbs.

    40 times-1st run-4.51 and 2nd run-4.47

    Bench reps (225 lbs.)-20 reps

    Vertical jump-35 inches

    So it’s not like he had blazing speed. Keenan Allen may put up very similar numbers.

    • JW says:

      yep. 40 times, or the difference between a 4.4 and 4.6 is one of the most overrated measurables out there. A receiver running good routes can more than make up that distance with a good hip or head fake, and won’t need 40 yards to do it. The subtle angles of a football play, the field, the cleats, the pads, fatigue, awareness, fakes/jukes, all but obliterate tenths of a second of a pure 40. But it is measurable so it gets measured. two tenths of a second difference can be gone in 1 season of age, or one injury.

      • SunPathPaul says:

        Good Point. Just look at how Wes Welker has 5 seasons with 100 catches+, and he has a 4.65 -40!!

        Good route running and a football IQ I guess are the difference…(not to mention Brady)

  21. Dan says:

    “There‚Äôs a good chance the Seahawks will wait until later in the draft to add a receiver, particularly given the needs on defense with the pass rush.”
    I completely agree with this statement. That’s why I say unless we grab an interior DT via free agency, we should really be looking at WRs in rounds 3-7. To everyone who says we need a WR in the first round, would you say addressing the receiving core would improve this team more than addressing the pass rush?? I say no. Absolutely not. Besides, this WR is pretty deep. I like a player like Aaron Dobson. He may only know the go route but that’s all the Hawks would be asking of him anyways.
    Maybe I just value defense a lot more.. but for whatever reason I don’t think offensive weapons are that important for this team to improve for next season.

  22. SunPathPaul says:

    Dan, you said…

    “To everyone who says we need a WR in the first round, would you say addressing the receiving core would improve this team more than addressing the pass rush?? I say no.”

    I understand that the pass rush let us down BIG in crucial moments, and I BIG TIME want that addressed in FA, but I think everyone is going a little too far with how much our defense needs. We were the #1 team in defensive scoring, and #4 overall…do I want a BEAST D-line? Of course! And PC/JS with new DC Quinn and new D-line coach will OBVIOUSLY make some major changes and acquisitions this off season to improve the D-line and pass rush, that we know!!

    But what you asked is would the offense getting weapons improve the team more than the defense getting help, and I would “pound the table” and say YES! YES! YES! by far!

    Why? Our D is all ready one of the best…will will become more scary with new D-lineman, but that won’t shift us but from what, #4 to maybe 2 or 1??

    But our Passing Offense was 27th!! 27th!!
    We have the miracle that is RW from the 3rd round, and we lost ALL 5 GAMES by a COMBINED 24 POINTS!!! 24 Points!! 24 points from going 16-0 with home field advantage throughout…

    If we add a versatile weapon like Tavon Austin, who gets yards running, catching, punt and kick returning, then those 24 points are answered! Period! Our Defense all ready held opponents to the fewest points allowed, so that getting better will only be slight. Our offense on the other hand scoring just that tad more, yields MUCH GREATER benefit, especially long term…

    Don’t forget that I also STRONGLY want our front 7 to become more and more lethal, but that benefit compared to lighting up the offense with Russell Wilson on the lose now, trumps it IMO!

    • SunPathPaul says:

      I think it is because that defensive weakness cost us some games late, and the falcons game, that we are emotionally pissed off about that, and making it a slightly bigger deal than it really is… They will Improve!!

      • JW says:

        that 27th ranking for passing is very misleading. by the end of the season the seahawks passing offense was very, very good. It was efficient, and Russell Wilson threw touchdowns without turning the ball over. This team can pass the ball. But bear in mind, the more you pass and the more often you score, the more your defense is on the field.

    • Zach says:

      I would suggest that we lost most of those games because of our defense…..not our offense. You could really make the argument either way. If we get better at pass rushing we’re going to need a stellar slot corner at the same time. Everybody wants another weapon for Russel but another “championship off-season” with our same receiving squad will be better than last year. Also remember that defense travels well, and we have a really tough road schedule next year.

      • SunPathPaul says:

        JW – yes RW was ascending at the end of the season, so why not feed that fire…?
        …as far as the D being on the field more? I posted my vision earlier somewhere of how we should play a 2 role offense…

        1 is the style we have now…pound the ball w Lynch, Turbin, makes some throws and scrambles, run down the clock and out possess the opponent…

        2 is a loaded offense with Russell Wilson’s high caliber mind and talent attacking the defense to get ahead quickly. They start the game in this mode, w hurry up, use misdirection and play action to take advantage of the defenses’ adrenaline at the start of a game- they overrun more so…we get a lead, then switch to role #1… resting our Defense. If the opponent scores, we come out in role #1 and attack again…

        Just my ideas…

        Zach – defense lost the games- it really can go either way in a dualistic world, but we saw what happened when the lid came off off Russell. That’s what I think would be best to feed…THAT momentum. Our D is really good, and will be I think GREAT this year.

        • JW says:

          very hard to switch back and forth on command, but I get your point.

          The thing I keep coming back to is Pete Carroll saying over and over that this is a run oriented offense. Quick strikes and explosive plays are important to him- it’s a stat they track like turnovers, but there’s a flip side in that it wears down your defense, which makes depth important.

          • SunPathPaul says:

            When I’m saying no huddle, I mean in order to keep THEIR defense on the field, slowing their ability to substitute. We could still grind down the clock standing at the line, so it’s not a hurt to our Defenses’ resting. It is just the idea of, send out a powerful package that they may not be ready for, do hurry up to keep the mismatches on the field and to tire them out…whilst letting time move also… Only do this at the beginning to get ahead, or to catch up…

            Just fun to play with all the variables…

  23. JW says:

    There are a number of intriguing TEs who may be on the free agent market.
    Martellus Bennett, Jared Cook, Fred Davis, Dalanie Walker, Dustin Keller. Ben Watson (older, but productive).
    Lots of those guys are just entering their prime years, and shouldn’t cost a fortune. If they can get Miller to restructure his contract, I think any of those could be a nice add, especially Cook and Bennet, who are young and shouldn’t command a huge contract.

    • Zach says:

      Good call. If we could pick up Jared Cook for a reasonable price he would be exactly what we need.

      • SunPathPaul says:

        Seems to be hurt a bit often…

        • JW says:

          he’s missed 5 games in 4 years, went two straight years out of 4 without missing a game. He’s still 25 years old. I wouldn’t be concerned with his injury history.

          • Hay stacker says:

            I’d go for Dustin Keller personally. But Fred Davis and Bennett are my runner ups

            • SunPathPaul says:

              Since Seattle has one WR and TE both paid pretty well through FAgency, I kinda doubt PC/JS will look to FA for offense. I think they will use FA for Defense this year…and if they land Starks and Osi, our draft opens WAY up!!! I hope they do!

              • JW says:

                The Jimmy Johnson approach, later admittedly learned the hard way by Holmgren, is to draft defense, and if you had to, sign FA offense. I don’t think some of those guys listed would command much salary, anyway. They have salary cap room, and they have a window that is open right now. I think they’d be remiss to not look hard at any of those guys as an immediate solution to their TE production. Remember, too, they brought an ancient and hobbled Winslow.

  24. SoCalSeahawker says:

    An intriguing player I don’t see anyone mentioning is Kenny Stills out of OU. He has pretty good size at 6’1″ and 190 lbs. He’s fast enough with 40 times in the 4.3’s and very good route runner. And he can be had in the 3-4 round range. Am I missing something?

  25. Zach says:

    Totally off topic……Did anyone see CB Robert Alford at the Senior Bowl practices? Awesome. Second round lock at the slot.

  26. Ned Reyerson says:

    If Dwayne Bowe becomes a FA, do the Hawks break the bank for him? He’ll be 29 next year, but he fits the profile.

  27. Hay stacker says:

    Rob, here’s an idea for the draft and tell me what you think please. (I’m probably going to start a fire for this post!) we go D line first two picks DT/DE rd 1 (depending on FA) will 2nd rd. but with your article asking if we want to go big…. Marques Wilson anyone? And before I have the purple and gold idiots laugh at me (coug pride on my end), why not wait til 4-7rd if he’s drafted. Before he was “cut” he was a highly recruited wr. He didnt really have a qb at wsu but still got the ball and made some awesome YAC. What got his draft stock falling and “cut” from the cougs was his attitude. Our locker room could easily tone that down. Couple of good shots from kam or Thomas wouldn’t hurt. But if we didn’t want to spend any high picks rds 1-3 he could be had at a cheaper cost and fill that void of big Wr. He’s a helluva Wr and the games I saw at Pullman he was incredible with his catching agility

    • Rob Staton says:

      The way he left the team was bizarre, unlike anything I’ve seen before. Teams are going to have to look into that. Leach has some history but even so, putting a letter out there into the public domain like he did was unusual. He’d have been better off just walking away if it was that bad. Better to explain to the NFL guys why you left, rather than why you wrote a damning letter and made it public. He’s talented (bit inconsistent at times) but he’s going to be a later round pick. There will come a point when he’s worth a shot.

  28. Wave Maker says:

    I’ve seen Allen play 3 or 4 times and I really like the guy. I admit thinking of the Seahawks while watching him.

    What I likes was he always had great separation. And I think that will be a big asset going against NFL CB’s. And he got that seperation when the defense knew they were going to throw to Allen……he’s all Cal had.

    He’s a stud.

  29. Eran Ungar says:

    How about a 6’5, 215 with great hands and 4.4 speed ? (tall dark and fast…)

    The kind of guy JS was reported to be VERY interested in ?

    In fact, he was so excited about this guy that he went out a signed him on a future contract without spending a draft pick on him. He was even reported to be cheering in the hallways saying “we got him”.

    So, somewhere in your mind when wondering what types of WR we may be getting at what round – keep the above in mind.

    His name is Stephen Williams and we signed him 2 weeks ago !!!

    Methinks you should pay a lot of attention to this guy…he may prove to be one of our greatest stills.

    • SunPathPaul says:

      I have my fingers crossed! I also think with Russell’s work ethic he will probably become good friends with Williams and develop a chemistry starting out here pretty soon… They will have thrown/caught a lot of balls even by training camp I bet you! This is our SECRET weapon! Russell’s work ethic for a “Championship Offseason!”

      Because we have Williams, I still am pounding the table for the diverse Tavon Austin, a versatile all use player…
      Or Jordan Reed to wild joker TE that can move around all over…

  30. RockyRaccoon says:

    I’m surprised Cordarelle Patterson hasn’t been mentioned more. He could really help out Seattle and has a good combo of size and speed.

    • SunPathPaul says:

      I think he isn’t mentioned much due to the fact that he is most likely WAY gone by #25…
      Miami might take him, although sounds like Philbin and Greg Jennings have a tight connect, and might get him in FA…

      I’d definitely take Cordarelle, but alas…he will be somewhere else probably…

      • Don says:

        Patterson is the best tall fast WR there is in the draft. He is agame changer. he also returns punts and kick offs. The Hawks need to trade up from #25 to #15 (before the Ram and Dolpins) to get him. HE IS THAT GOOD!

        He will force the defense to respect him and free the other players.