We’re a week away from the draft and things couldn’t be quieter.
The Russell Wilson saga has gone into hibernation, with both parties seemingly prepared to kick the can down the road for now.
And there’s no news on anything to do with Jamal Adams and his contract.
Many people are quick to tell you the Seahawks don’t extend contracts before the draft. It’s certainly true that the vast majority of their deals are done later in the year.
This is different though because of the sheer scale of the trade. And I think it warrants a conversation.
When the Seahawks traded for Adams, they must’ve had an inkling on what he would cost down the road?
Even if serious talks were shelved, you surely don’t make that deal without some confidence that eventually you’d come to an agreement.
That means one of two things. Either you’re prepared to pay whatever it takes (as we saw with the Texans/Tunsil and Rams/Ramsey) or you know that a fair negotiation is plausible.
Either way, you’d think a pathway to an extension is within reach.
Yet so far the two parties have not agreed terms.
What exactly is the reason for not getting this done and out of the way as quickly as possible? If the Seahawks are minded to build around Jamal Adams for the long haul, what possible reason could there be for delaying an extension?
After all, they did just extend Tyler Lockett. That was doubly important because it also created cap space this year. There’s unlikely to be any cap relief created by a new deal with Adams. Yet they gave Lockett a $17.25m a year deal — in the ballpark for what Adams will be looking for.
Presumably a similar extension for Adams wouldn’t require a painstaking, far longer process — especially given they’ve had months to consider these negotiations as a presumed off-season priority.
So they’ve had plenty of time to consider his worth, they already spent a fortune to acquire him and they’ve seen what he’s about on and off the field.
What’s the hold up then?
The only other time the Seahawks made a big splash on a player coming to the end of his deal was Percy Harvin. He was awarded a huge new contract immediately upon signing.
I’d argue the price of the trade — two firsts and a third — dictates a greater sense of urgency with Adams than even Harvin.
The last thing you want is a difficult negotiation with a player and team clashing over money, possibly developing into a fractious situation.
Yet the longer this goes on, the longer that becomes a possibility.
I don’t see much chance of Adams happily going along with his $9.8m salary this year and no long term security — especially off the back of off-season surgery and an injury hit 2020. He’s one serious injury away from significantly damaging his leverage in negotiations with Seattle or anyone else.
The new CBA makes a holdout tricky to execute — but that’s not the thing to worry about. It’s a possible growing resentment that will blossom without an agreement.
That’s what happened in New York, after all.
Here’s where I think the problem lies.
Brock Huard on his 710 ESPN podcast this week reiterated Seattle’s desire to get a deal done with Adams, with seemingly no consideration to trade him away.
Huard is reasonably connected. He noted the price of the highest paid safety is Justin Simmons’ $15.25m a year. He suggested the Seahawks would be willing to beat that and were using Simmons’ contract as the basis for their negotiation.
That set alarm bells off for me.
The Seahawks are well within their rights to try and use the market to their advantage. Simmons’ new contract provides a starting point for talks. On top of that, Seattle can argue that Adams can only expect to earn about $13,215,000 on the franchise tag next year. So they are protected for at least two seasons with club control.
Yet Adams is likely to be in a totally different place in these talks.
After all, when the Texans traded away multiple first round picks for Tunsil, they had to pay him $6m more than the next highest paid left tackle. Ramsey’s contract with the Rams is $3.2m higher than the next highest paid cornerback.
When you trade away first rounders for players on expiring contracts, you lose leverage.
Adams can easily point to the Tunsil and Ramsey deals and say they are the precedent, not Justin Simmons. He can demand $3-6m more than the next highest paid safety. He can try and argue he’s a player without a defined position.
He might even demand to top Ramsey’s $20m salary to become the highest paid defensive back.
Plus — Adams can argue they just paid their #2 receiver $17.2m a year and the starting middle linebacker is on $18m a year.
Either way, offering $16m and thinking he’ll settle seems fanciful at best.
I appreciate that Huard’s assessment, alongside my own interpretation of the situation, isn’t gospel and it’s possible the Seahawks are willing to go way beyond $16m. I do think his explanation of a team very keen to get a deal done and make him the highest paid safety is also a potential nod to why this isn’t done.
I don’t think Adams views himself as a safety or the Simmons contract as relevant.
I think he’s going to ask for $18-20m — and I’m not convinced the Seahawks will stretch to that. Otherwise this is probably already done.
Thus, you end up in a possible scenario where both parties wait to see who blinks first. A stalemate.
It’s indicative of why you really need an oven-ready contract extension when you make these big trades. Now, the Seahawks face the prospect of a staring contest with Adams having invested so much in him.
Maybe I’m wrong and a deal will be announced in the coming days? It’s possible.
I fear though that this won’t be the case and we’ll see a protracted situation where the conclusion is either the Seahawks wildly overpaying or an agitated Jamal Adams.
My opinion on what the Seahawks should do still hasn’t changed. Yet it seems they might be in a contradicting position of wanting Adams badly but not badly enough to sort things out to avoid potential issues down the line.
If you’re not sick of the sound of my voice yet, I did another podcast appearance this week. Click here to check it out. You can also watch my tired face on YouTube.
You can support Seahawks Draft Blog via Patreon by clicking the tab below
Somehow i bet Pete thought his “culture” would convince Jamal to drop his price.
Just reposting this. Underlines that they’re at the crossroads right now.
https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1287707819085631489
As we have seen the past few years, the Seahawks quite hit and miss on their stated off season priority’s. I understand and agree with all the points that you made but I definitely see Seattle letting him play it out if he won’t come down to their price. Just like they did with Clowney, I don’t think they budge from their number. You bring up Harvin and they didn’t hesitate to move on from him and eat the lost picks. I think it is all about their (over)confidence in their culture. Players may end up sympathizing but it won’t hold the team hostage like it would in NY. Hopefully a pre draft trade is still not off the table as has been discussed to death.
I will say that if Jamal stays I hope they still find a way to get Sherm back. They need clout that will hold Jamal accountable in the DB room. Someone to get in his face when he free lances. Either that or hire Kam as coach.
Bobby is the culture enforcer, currently. Luje Willson talked about it one year where Bobby put a stop to Willson goofing around. I would have to believe he is the most respected man in that locker room.
Unfortunately Pete’s going to give him an $18-$20M contract extension. He’ll be all giddy while gushing rainbow & unicorns, while (deservedly) getting roasted by actual football knowledgeable people on Twitter. Please note that I do not believe that “Seahawks Twitter” are actual football knowledgeable people. Then Adams will play 11 games next season while nursing several nagging injuries, starting in week 2.
“He’ll be all giddy while gushing rainbow & unicorns, while (deservedly) getting roasted by actual football knowledgeable people on Twitter”
I ask earnestly, no snark – if not Pete Carroll, who do you consider “actual football knowledgeable people”?
By “actual football knowledgeable people on Twitter” are you referring to former players, coaches and executives? As the majority of “actual football knowledgeable people” are employed by teams and don’t offer those opinions on social media.
Seahawks twitter does have some who would qualify, I suppose – Huard, Heaps, Bumpus
This is the least I’ve ever looked forward to the draft. My only remaining hope is that they make a draft-day trade involving Adams that gets us back in it with more picks. Not gonna hold my breath though.
Same here. I can’t tell you how many hours I wasted time on the mock draft simulator last year (it was fun). I haven’t done it once this year because it’s so pointless when you only have the 56th picks out of the first 129 possibilities. This team needs 5 quality picks in the top 3 rounds for me to think they could potentially be a Super Bowl frontrunner. Instead they have 1 and it’s late in the 2nd round.
Hawk Mock. Agree and disagree about looking to the mock. I agree in the fact the John Schneider only has three draft picks. But I disagree also. Not so much that I disagree but that I am more intrigued by what John Schneider actually does. Can JS keep pulling rabbits out of the hat? How many picks will the Seahawks actually have. Who will he select? Two years ago he started out with 4 picks. And he ended up with 11 picks.
Now this year their is no Frank Clark to trade. So obviously JS will not be able to obtain the bushel baskets of picks he had two years ago. But it will be intriguing to see what JS actually does.
Trading away one of your best three players for a first round pick from which you can trade down is not ‘creating magic’.
“Now this year there is no Frank Clark to trade”
Jamal Adams? Clark was traded two days before the draft. Hopefully they can get a similar return from the Dolphins or Jags.
Another excellent article Rob. Off topic, it’s great to see that the will of the people is outweighing the greed of the billionaires in nixing this Super League in less than a week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccxOzFUmw60&ab_channel=TheHill
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/21/sports/soccer/super-league-florentino-perez.html
It has been a horrid week to be an Arsenal fan. Today Arsenals fans met with Josh Kroenke in a fans forum.
https://mobile.twitter.com/REDactionAFC/status/1385261367112912897
Complete sympathy to anyone who supports a Kroenke owned team (the people St.Louis especially) but it seems like Arsenal fans will do everything they can to force them out. Another protest planned tomorrow.
Geno Smith’s back then
Really hope this doesn’t prevent them from planning properly for what might come next year
Probably you will think “what a stupid post”. Well hopefully you don’t write it at least.
The Panthers signing Darnold,the rumors of them seeking to trade out if pick 8, Brandon Marshall telling the world that PC and RW were never more in line, Geno resigning a week before the draft:
The Panthers either draft Fields or trade for Wilson, Seattle either gets Darnold or Fields or even both for Wilson. If it is Darnold they trade Wilson to the Bears for 4 first rounders and change.
I don’t think Wilson has any interest in Carolina
I don’t understand why members of the Seattle media have to frame Geno Smith re-signing with the opening sentence of this tweet:
https://twitter.com/CorbinSmithNFL/status/1385330079471792128
What exactly is the point of that?
You’re the pro, Rob, but framing Geno signing with the Russell saga is just good business, IMO. Instead of “backup QB that no one cares resign with the club”, you frame the news inside the overreaching saga of the teams’ starting QB.
I think you’re wayyyy overplaying that
Feels petty
I’m gonna be the a-hole in the room here – but they do this because Seattle Sports Media is loaded with real life losers whose only goal is to be liked by the team/players and the loudmouths on Twitter. That’s it. They have no interest in actual journalism. They want to be PR for the team and it’s players – plain and simple; or at the very least, buddy-buddy. You can see this trend growing in all aspects of “journalism,” these days.
I mean…with the RW drama – what a wonderful opportunity for an actual journalist, to be able to tackle a complex and serious issue from multiple angles. You did this masterfully, Rob – but here’s the catch; you’re an actual journalist.
I’m not in the journalism industry – but I would think for someone who takes the job seriously; you love the opportunity to get away from typical puff pieces to tackle a serious subject that pertains to the “beat” you are assigned to. The fact these clowns showed their utter disinterest in it – really tells you all you need to know; they wanted to work for a PR Firm, not a newspaper.
You make some fair points to be honest
It has always been like that and that’s the same with most jobs. As long as someone else pays your salary. You either have to cater to higher-ups or customers, or both.
As a journalist myself who does endless press conferences, I can tell you this is wrong
Neither the Seahawks Organization nor do the players pay their salaries. Journalism “used to” serve the reading audience. It is now nothing more than PR.
Local reporters have become indistinguishable from Seahawks.com. That’s a problem.
I agree this I’d probably a staring contest now much like what happened with Clowney and Richardson. They REALLY should have had a contract in place at the time of the trade but that probably indicates more about the last minute nature of these trades. These trades have cost them dearly in draft picks and other recovery costs through the years. It reinforces the idea that the front office tends to sett their house on fire before they look for ways to put it out. I’ll be surprised if they trade Adams due to the late timing of things now ( although they’ve had all offseason to come up with a plan) but it feels like they’d be much better off doing so.
For all the many years I’ve read this blog ( thank you, Rob!), I’m usually frustrated by the draft choices the Hawks end up making. Thanks to Rob and this community, we all get to draft day having a good sense of the players we fell they should ( but often don’t) draft. What’s the surprise this year? I, for one, would be fascinated if they would draft Mond or Mills but feel they’d actually have to move up in the draft to do so ( at least above Denver in the second round). It may not be practical or make sense considering the other holes on the team but considering the uncertainty around Russ and the apparent lack of good QB’s in the draft next year. drafting a heir apparent might not be the worst idea.
“They REALLY should have had a contract in place at the time of the trade but that probably indicates more about the last minute nature of these trades. These trades have cost them dearly in draft picks and other recovery costs through the years. It reinforces the idea that the front office tends to sett their house on fire before they look for ways to put it out.”
Spot on.
Not to worry, we have Geno.
What’s wrong with Geno? He knows his role, he knows the room, he knows what’s needed/expected. He’s not expensive, and he knows he’s backing up an iron man.
Geno is in a perfect situation. He’s backing up Wolverine/Deadpool, gets paid to stay in shape, has free meals every day at the VMAC, and is accumulating more and more money to his NFLPA pension.
Oh, and that whole $1 mil+ salary ta boot.
The Seahawks/Pete and John have made this situation FUBAR since day one by A) not having an extension in place before finalizing the trade, B) trading for a guy that doesn’t fit their scheme and C) using him in a way his body wasn’t meant to be used at the rate they used him leaving him susceptible to injury thus he played 13 of 17 games and was utterly ineffective in 2 others including the all important playoff game. He was and will continue to be the wrong guy for this defense. The question then is will Pete Carroll stubbornly stick to his belief that he’s a BAMF and pay him or will it grow into a cancer because they don’t want to go to the 18-20 per Rob has predicted all along (and that he’s correct about as will be shown in the long run either way). There is but one way out of this and that’s a trade but as Ben said above and I’ll echo here because I think Ben was right
“Unfortunately Pete’s going to give him an $18-$20M contract extension. He’ll be all giddy while gushing rainbow & unicorns………..Then Adams will play 11 games next season while nursing several nagging injuries, starting in week 2.”
And a reminder: 53rd ranked
I really think you should have given Big Mike the honors of writing this article! Maybe just go through the last 6 months of articles and copy and paste all of his responses that are related to the Adams trade into an article at least, lol. Does anyone have any proof of this 53rd ranked, I could have sworn I read somewhere it was actually 52nd!
That’s just mindless hate for a player, sorry.
I agree with most of Rob’s assessment about Adams and that we should trade him and try to recoup some picks (since my username), but I’m sick and tired of the hate some Seahawks fan direct at Jamal Adams. He’s not worth two first rounds picks and he’s not the best safety ever, but he’s a damn excelent player, that any team in the league would welcome at their squad, for the right price. ANY team.
“Then Adams will play 11 games next season while nursing several nagging injuries, starting in week 2” Guess you’re predicting the future now!
I agree MorePicks. The hate for Adams is over the top. He didn’t decide his trade value.
I actually like Adams but the cost to acquire him, coupled with the future cost to retain him(if they go that route) is just too much in my opinion. I’d rather have the picks and let Diggs and Blair start with Neal backing up while also signing cheap hedges like the other Neal or Hooker. To each his own though, party on.
Nowhere did I in any way say anything that was a personal attack on Jamal Adams. That would constitute hate. What I do hate is the trade and his fit and performance in Seattle. Said performance was at best, marginal which was reflected by the 53rd ranking he “achieved” from PFF. Watching a player do the matador rather than tackle an opponent because he’s too hurt to to give a real effort because he’s being used in the wrong manner is brutal as are dropped interceptions (several), getting beat by TEs downfield, being caught in no man’s land between his zone and the backfield while someone catches a TD in his vacated zone, etc.
The quote was from Ben a couple of posts above mine. I was just agreeing with it.
I utterly disagree that he’s “an excellent player” in the Seattle system. Other places? Possible, but not here. I believe in time this trade will be seen as one of the worst in Seahawks’ history. If I’m wrong and he’s amazing next year, I’ll step up, man up and gladly admit I’m wrong and do so here. It’ll be great because it’ll mean the Seahawks are benefitting and wins by the team is all I ever want.
In my opinion, this “53rd ranked” business is a tired trope. PFF is not the be-all and end-all of rankings, and I can absolutely guarantee that all else being equal, there are not 52 safeties GMs around the league would prefer over Jamal Adams.
That does not mean that he’s worth the money he is asking, or that the Hawks must sign him at all costs. I’d be for a trade for the right deal, for the sake of picks and cap room. But he’s not the 53rd best safety in the league. Nobody thinks that.
Nobody is arguing he’s the 53rd best safety in football though. People keep bringing that up and they’re missing the point people make when they refer to PFF.
The whole point is last season that’s where he graded. It’s indicative of how he performed in Seattle. And that performance wasn’t very good.
The fears some of us have is that is simply a terrible fit for all concerned.
I get that. Like I said, I agree with the sentiment that we should trade him, forget about the sunk costs and try to recoup some picks.
What irks me are fans that dismiss Jamal as player, like he is a bust or something. It’s the all or nothing, either he’s the new Kam Chacellor or he is a bum, a nobody, that can’t possibly stay healthy or play better in 2021. Like the league doens’t give an award exactly for players that comeback after a disappointing season…
Playing devil’s advocate – he has been a bust for Seattle when factoring in the capital it took to acquire him. We have lost the opportunity to fill 3 holes on the roster at significantly lower cap hits as a result. I don’t care about manufactured sacks or 2nd team all pro. He was very bad in coverage and didn’t create turnovers. That’s not what you want from a Safety, especially in Seattle’s system.
I view him like a Honda Accord – very good car. Reliable. Anybody saying it’s a “bad car” is stupid. That said, a Honda Accord is not a good value if you paid $100K to acquire it.
It’s a dumb analogy, but that’s how I view Adams. He’s merely “good” in the wrong system and great in the right system. He currently plays in the wrong system.
Would you say a rookie is a bust after he played just one season?
Nope. What does that have to do with Jamal Adams?
He played just one season for us. He might play better next season.
So “might” is worth 18 million a year?
@Big Mike
That’s why I’m favor of trading Adams.
What I won’t do is predict the future and say he can’t play any better for us.
Why would Seattle want more picks in the most unpredictable draft ever? If there ever was a year to only start with 3 picks in it then this was the year. Seattle new this when they made the trade for Adam’s. Get a proven commodity over a prospect that offers inherent evaluation flaws.
I know for you Rob it’s tough because your a draft guru so this must be frustrating but for Seattle it’s the better gamble. Many top prospects sat out last year due to the pandemic, plus the players who did play played against weaker comp as a result. It’s a nightmare for evaluators. There is only a consensus 10 players that might be blue chip while most of the 1st round is 2nd or 3rd round talents. The areas Seattle are likely to address will likely be OL and WR which bodes well for where they sit. This not the draft for defense.
It’s not difficult for me at all.
The whole ‘this draft is unpredictable so better to have no picks’ angle is so wrong I can’t believe people still use it to prop up this farce of a situation the Seahawks have found themselves in
What “farce of a situation”?
The position groups that Seattle needs to address are addressable in the middle rounds. They had a successful offseason addressing many holes in Free Agency on a 12-4 roster. The first defensive pick will more than likely come after pick 10. I only highlight that point to reiterate how weak the top end of the defensive portion of the draft is.
Seattle has upgraded the OL and can still add depth in the draft. It’s a good OL and WR draft, after that it’s a crapshoot. The QB’s, as a position group, are ok but still outside of Lawrence tough to evaluate.
I don’t see this as a “farce of a situation” but rather enough bites at a tainted apple.
The farce of having no LT, RT, CB, FS, SS, C, TE1 signed up for next season, the fact that you’ll be greatly limited financially if you extend Jamal Adams’ contract and you have basically two picks in the 2021 draft, #56 and #129, with which to try and address some long term issues.
Not to mention how many picks they’ve squandered and money wasted since the 2018 reset, which is creating this non-stop scotch-taping of the roster.
Plus I’ve written many articles explaining why I think the Adams trade was a bad move born out of desperation, with the price tag (trade) and future price tag (salary) completely unjustifiable.
See above.
Really? Let’s actually break down what they’ve done.
The only change on the D-line is swapping out Jarran Reed for journeyman Kerry Hyder. I know a lot of people are convinced the D-line is a position of strength. I am extremely sceptical there. A lot of their success at the end of last season came against weak opponents.
They lost Shaquill Griffin (which I’m not fussed about). They’ve replaced him with someone who won’t obviously be better but could be worse in my opinion. They’ve so far not retained or replaced KJ Wright.
I don’t think this is a step forward for the defense.
On offense, I have no issue with the Gabe Jackson trade or the signing of Gerald Everett. Neither do I think they’re going to elevate the offense to a whole new level. I said this before Jackson was brought in but he’s been a player with a fading star for some time. The Raiders were willing to cut him. Everett never elevated himself in LA despite costing a second round pick. I’m not sure why things will change in Seattle playing for a coordinator who was with him in LA and for a team that perennially struggles to work out the best use for the tight ends in the passing game.
I think Ethan Pocic is poor and despite Wilson’s complaints, as of today 4/5th’s of the O-line remains the same as last year.
On top of this, no receiver has been added and their running back depth is crap IMO. Chris Carson had to be mothered through last season. Penny has been a bust. Homer/Dallas just aren’t good enough.
To me the Seahawks are pretty much what they were in 2020. And I see you’ve thrown in a reference to 12-4. That’s fine. I understand why fans do that. I also think it’s only fair to be honest about what that was — a record born out of a great schedule, which contained numerous (close) wins against really bad teams and also included absolute abject hammerings by the Bills, Rams and Giants — ending with a total arse kicking by the Rams in the wildcard round.
Seattle basically had one somewhat impressive victory against a good opponent in 2020 — the home Rams game in the regular season. And placed alongside the two other games against LA, it’s somewhat diluted.
I’m not sure why that’s relevant.
I think this is pretty cut and dry. The Seahawks will go to $16m and he wants $18+. Personally I think the Seahawks have all the leverage because they can give him $9.8 this year and $13m next year on the tag. I dont think the Seahawks blink first as they have been here before. Of he wants to hold out we have players who can fill in. Im with you though and hope we trade him but I doubt that happens.
The Seahawks definitely do not have all the leverage.
I’m just saying. The seahawks have a culture. Culture=leverage.
You’re not getting a discount for ‘culture’
The Seahawks have bought a financial headache
Someone really needs to let Pete know this.
I’m just kidding anyway. It’s just another absurd situation for this team. Culture means almost zero. Currently, Kansas City and Tampa are probably the best cultures in the league, because they won recently.
Seattle has become drama infested and in complete denial about practically everything.
Exactly — winning and appearing to be a hot place are what gets people going.
Right now everyone wants to play for the Buccs/Brady, or go and jump in with Mahomes and Reid.
I would agree. It felt like Tunsil and Ramsey had more leverage than Adams does. Maybe they just dont feel its priority number one. Like you said Locketts deal opened up needed cap space where an Adsms deal wont.
Adams needed multiple surgeries after the season ended. Let’s see how he looks this year.
He was also a liability in coverage. There’s no way I’m paying $20 million for a box defender. Tag and trade after next season.
Jamal Adams isn’t going to be willing to let the Seahawks ‘see how he looks’ this year.
At the time I supported the trade for Adams. But I am wondering if they made a mistake. Gut feeling is that Pete Carroll pushed for the trade.
What kind of guaranteed money do you expect Adams to seek/get? I wonder if they offer him higher guarantees whether that would entice him to sign for an annual salary more to the team’s liking.
I can’t see him buying that
It’s all about his ego and APY, I would think. The ability to point at a contract and proclaim you are the highest paid goes a long way in satiating that ego.
He won’t just want to be the highest paid safety though.
For sure. He wants to be the highest paid DB, possibly highest paid defender, for all we know. Either way, this will not be some quick negotiation that is resolved any time soon. All signs point to UGLY.
The guarantees are where the rubber hits the road for both Jamal and the Seahawks. The Seahawks surely have to be thinking about Kam’s contract and how it played out with his injury. I would be surprised to see big guaranteed money in an extension that isn’t the year-by-year type. A big number contract with limited guarantees is possible, with Jamal having to go out and earn it.
Seahawks:
‘Let’s trade two firsts, a third and a veteran starter for Jamal Adams and a fourth’
Doug:
‘Yes, and then let’s go year-to-year on his contract to see if it was worth it’
The draft capital is a sunk cost and really doesn’t (or shouldn’t) have any bearing on the contract extension.
That’s dreamland stuff, Doug
If that was put to Jamal Adams’ team, they would laugh in Seattle’s faces
I think Adams has way less leverage than Tunsil & Ramsey because –
1) The cap going down has given the Hawks a serious out on why he should take less money
2) He plays a non-premium position. If he holds out, the Hawks are not going to get as much negative coverage as comes with your CB or LT missing games. He is not that important to the Hawks defense right now.
3) He is not a core player yet. He won’t be treated as Sherman or Kam holding out because he is still a secondary piece in this defense.
If I had to guess, he realizes the hand he is dealt and makes a compromise. After all, holdouts have backfired on players in the recent past (Bell, Melvin Gordon, etc). But, we will see.
1. But all of the big name players are still getting massive, record breaking salaries so I don’t think this is right
2. He doesn’t think he has a defined position
3. I’m pretty sure trying to barter with ‘you are not a core player yet’ won’t work
If Seahawks have their number and Adams has his # and they aren’t close, I don’t understand how a trade isn’t the most likely outcome. Seems pretty simple.
Jamals leverage is that Seattle gave up 2 1sts, a 3rd, and a starter for him.
Happy Birthday Marshawn! Those were the days when our dominant RB could energize the whole team and stadium. Just as exciting to see him pushing and spinning in at the goal line against the Raiders and Eagles as the long runs.
https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1385247027479654401
If Seahawks have their number and Adams has his # and they aren’t close, I don’t understand how a trade isn’t the most likely outcome. Seems pretty simple.
You’d think so, wouldn’t you…
Hopefully the all quiet on JA front is a planned tactic on the Seahawks part and over the weekend someone will light something on fire so I can start seeing the smoke that everyone talks about before a big trade happens. Adams simply didn’t pass the eye test when watching games. His stats prove that.
I’ve lost all hope on a trade there
I think it’s almost certainly not going to happen
Like Pete is just bound and determined to make bad long-term personnel decisions year after year because he thinks we’re just one player away.
“Adams simply didn’t pass the eye test when watching games. His stats prove that.”
Mindless hate Paul {sarcasm}
It’s not hate to say that while he is a good player, he isn’t worth the numbers I keep hearing on this website. And he isn’t that tradeable either, unless your willing to take way less than the Seahawks sunk into him. That’s based on his performance as a safety – I doubt anyone will offer enough to induce a trade. That’s probably why it’s so quiet.
This is a Clowney situation . He won’t be happy with the Seahawks offer, and when he hits the free agent market the other teams will offer even less. And then for some reason he will resent the Seahawks when he isn’t a coverage guy ot an interception guy. It’s unfortunate , but unless he improves in coverage he simply isn’t worth as much as he apparently thinks he is worth.
The Jaran Reed fiasco devolved rather quickly. So I wouldn’t hold my breath for anything simple.
It’s possible that they had made calls to the other 30 GMs in the league to see what the market looks like for a JA trade and simply just don’t like it. If that is the case, well PC is currently bleeding from a gunshot wound to the foot and might bleed to death.
There are 2 reasons I think that building a defense around Adams is a mistake: his injury history and more important, his personality. He doesn’t carry the gravitas of a Wagner or Chancellor. Paying a king’s ransom for a safety is also an issue…
A lot of people lazily refer to him as a Chancellor type though. That’s just an assumed fact. It couldn’t be further from the truth.
Agree completely Rob the comp to Kam is just silly. I don’t see any TE, RB or WR afraid the catch the ball in the middle of the Hawks secondary because Jamal Adams is going to blow them up.
great point and to add to it I think it goes beyond the play on the field. In the past if you were causing issues you had to answer to Kam and Lynch. Yikes. I don’t think Adams is on that level.
Do you think he’ll refuse to show up for training camp and potentially hold out the season if they don’t meet his contract expectations?
Could we be looking at the same situation Houston faced with Clowney? Only we’re on the wrong side of the equation.
Yes, possibly
I’d wager a pint on a hold-out.
1. Obviously there are exceptions like Tyler, but I feel like the majority of extensions Seahawks players have received have occurred in June or July.
2. I am unaware of a single extension for a Seahawks player that was given before they passed the physical after surgery. I don’t think there is any way the Seahawks give Adams 20 or 30 million dollars guaranteed before he’s cleared for football practice.
3. I expect an extension with $68(to 72)m of new money over 4 extra yrs, with restructure of 2021 salary into signing bonus. Total, it will be $78(to 82)m over 5 years, with $32m guaranteed, $20m signing bonus, annual salaries of $1m, $11m, $14m, $16m, $16(to 18)m and cap hits of $6m, $16m, $19m, $21m, and $21(to 23)m.
And there are exceptions too when you spend two firsts and a third round pick on a player on an expiring contract. Essentially pouring your best resource for the next two years into him. That makes this a far different situation than a mere random player coming towards the end of his deal.
So what are you implying here? That if they don’t like the look of the medicals they’re going to let this contract run out and move on??
Or that they’re going to turn to Adams and say — ‘we’ve reduced our offer by $5m a year because of the medicals’.
Come on.
And Jamal Adams might be expecting an extension worth $20m a year not $17m.
Which is the point made in the piece.
Rob, thanks for correcting and fusing my two posts, the phone is not always so great.
“So what are you implying here? That if they don’t like the look of the medicals they’re going to let this contract run out and move on??
Or that they’re going to turn to Adams and say — ‘we’ve reduced our offer by $5m a year because of the medicals’.”
Not trying to be argumentative here, but, actually, yes, something like that. If Adams is not cleared for football after shoulder surgery by the start of the season, I don’t believe the Seahawks will give him a contract extension before the start of the season. Maybe he gets an extensible in season if he’s able to get on the field in the first few weeks.
I think they say to him “We understand you want a new contract, and we love the heart and leadership you showed last year, and we believe in you physical talent and skill to be a first team all pro again. But like every team in the NFL, we cannot extend an offer of 80 million dollars to any player who has not recovered from a surgery or injury that limits their effectiveness on the field as much as your shoulder injury did in the second half of the year. Let’s hash out a contract that we can both sign as soon as you are fit to play. ”
Either Adams is a reasonable adult or he’s not. If he is, then such a conversation doesn’t harm negotiations. If he’s not reasonable, then it’s probably best for the team to move on, even at the insane sunk cost of 2 1st rounders. That is better than guaranteeing $30m to a player who, due to health, they don’t believe will play football again, or won’t play at a high level again. That’s kind of the worst case scenario isn’t it…
There is a lot of speculation that he is not a reasonable person, and that’s certainly a possibility, but we know very little, almost nothing, about his motivations. I certainly don’t hold it against him that he demanded a trade from the Jets, in fact that is a positive in my book. I certainly don’t hold it against him that he wants to get paid.
Then they might as well just ring Jamal Adams up and call him a ‘bell-end’ instead of posting an offer. Because the reaction from Adams will be the same and at least you’ll save some time.
And he’ll tell them to get f***ed.
One could argue that the Adams we saw in New York is worth resetting the Safety market, but the Adams we saw last year certainly isn’t. Before agreeing to a market resetting extension, it seems that they want to see if they can better integrate Adams into their system, and to see if his health issues last year really contributed to his reduced effectiveness. If he’s willing to sign for around 15M then I’m sure it would already be done, but if he is holding steadfast on 17-18M then it seems they’d rather wait it out knowing they can just franchise tag him at the end of the year. Obviously this is running the risk of pissing him off just like he was with the Jets, but for better or for worse PC/JS always have their unwavering belief in the Seahawks “culture” being able to settle these problems. Seems like it’s going to get messy.
Making Jamal Adams wait another season to be paid is going to go down as well as a nostril hair in a spanish omelette.
No culture is saving that.
Seattle’s going to have to pay up (18-20 million sounds about right). They’re pretty much backed into a corner now. I don’t think they trade him (they’ll lose on the deal relatively speaking), and anything else is just setting the stage for acrimonious relation.
They just have to go all in on him now and hope it turns out for the best.
I’ve listened to a growing chorus of fans believing there’s a defensive scheme change happening, moving to a 4-2-5, in order to better fit Adams. Evidence pointing to only 4 linebackers on the roster.
It reminds me of arguing that since you can’t prove aliens don’t exist, they must surely exist. If KJ isn’t resigned and Adams is still on the roster, then we’re definitely changing schemes.
If we learned nothing last year, PC is not changing his scheme come hell or high water.
Watched Jamal Adams highlights earlier and all I could notice was whenever Jarran Reed was on the field he was causing problems for the QB. I’m sick we let him get away without any draft pick compensation. Just terrible management. Not at all excited about the dline. One starting level player, Dunlap, but he’s 32. Mayowa and Hyder are serviceable as rotation guys. Green and Collier aren’t NFL level players. Don’t know on Alton Robinson yet, but doubt he’s ever more than a rotation guy. Taylor unlikely to see the field. Ford, Mone and 34 year old Al Woods don’t inspire confidence either. Aldon Smith is done. Don’t know on Cedrick Lattimore but wouldn’t have high expectations. Man, I’m depressed. One starting quality player (maybe 2 depending on how much you like Ford) on the entire dline.
Kind of hard not to imagine Jarran Reed becoming perceived as a top guy at DT after a year next to Clark and Chris Jones.
Rob, I know you might not care to do this and maybe you already have, but I’m curious on what your three round Seahawks mock daft would look like if they still had picks 23,56 & 86?
Why torture ourselves
Just would highlight exactly what we gave up in the Adams trade and provides context.
lots of reply’s indicating The Seahawks are no good at player negotiations.
Surely if The Seahawks feel that Adams is going to hold out and with the large outlay given in draft picks they would push the button to trade Adams otherwise they loose all – the front office must see this.
Also there must be the possibility that if Adams holds out with the Seahawks and on top of the way he forced himself out of the Jets, few teams would risk a large lengthy contact and Adams could go down the Clowney route bouncing around for the best money he can muster.
just like to say i like Adams as a Seahawks player and hope the Team and player come to a all round good deal.
Agree. And these are the same people who are patting the FO on the back for the deals they have done this season so far. Of course they have some idea of which direction this will go, they wouldn’t trade that much without some an moving forward.
Firstly, what exactly is the problem with praising some decisions and criticising others? Are you implying that you can only be 100% critical or 100% positive?
And who exactly has been hailing their off-season and criticising Adams unfairly? Who is this mystery poster??
Surely if the Seahawks were in a Covid impacted draft they wouldn’t trade up in round two for a player with massive injury red flags without due process taking place to feel confident on his medical grade…
Oh
😂 😂 That’s made my morning!
It should be really easy…
What is the base point of contract talks? Around 15m
How much you’re willing to pay for Adams max? Lets say 18m
You give Adams a contract option around 16m that works for you.
Adams say no way, lets make it 21m avg
Seahawks say, OK, lets make it 17m but a bit less gtd
Adams say there’s no chance he goes under 20m
Seahawks say, they can’t go higher, but lets make the gtds a bit higher
Adams say OK, he sees the Seahawks are willing to compromise, lets take it to 19m and deal
Hawks say, 18m final offer
Adams can say two things:
OK, lets do it – deal is done
OR
No, it’s an insult, he won’t go under 19m and wants bigger GTDs – Hawks try to trade him for at least a 2nd and 3rd round pick.
They can set a deadline if Adams is slow to respond, for example exactly one week before the draft, if they cannot make a deal until them they start shopping him.
If they can at least a high 2nd round or a mid-late 2nd and 3rd they keep Adams on his current contract, tag him next year and try to shop him that time again (maybe he’ll have a better season in ’21)
That’s all. I’m not in sales or business, but that’s how you can do successful negotiations (ok, maybe the actual negotiation part would be different, but you determine some points and act accordingly).
They might be a bit more flexible, but it’s stupid to go in with only your low number (15-16m) where Adams likely wants more, and try to wait it out and maybe even let him walk…that’s what happened with Clowney, and how well that offseason turned out…
They gave up a treasure trove of draft capital to obtain this guy. This is not a normal negotiation. In a normal negotiation, if you can’t come to an agreement, you walk away, no harm no foul.
Here, if the sides are too far apart, and Adams walks away as a UDFA, the best ‘deal’ is a compensatory pick, far below what was spent to get him. We’d get a 3rd rounder in 2022 (assuming Adams can find another suitor willing to pay him near his desired range). Roughly equivalent to a 4th rounder in the 2021 draft.
If instead we tag him, we run the risk of him trying the same scorched-earth strategy that succeeded in him getting traded out of New York. Who needs that kind of circus?
if the sides are too far apart, and Adams walks away as a UDFA
Never going to happen.
Seems like a franchise-altering decision doesn’t it? Either treat Adams as a sunk cost and recoup what you can, or, double down and pay the man, based on several key assumptions:
(1) what we saw from Adams last year was mostly injury-impaired
(2) those injuries won’t repeat
(3) when healthy, his ability on the field will win out and the price we paid will seem reasonable
I just can’t bring myself to agree with those assumptions and pray that Pete/John will concur. They did walk away from Percy Harvin, so there’s precedent here for admitting a big mistake and moving on.
100% agree with everything in this post.
Sounds cut and dry. At least if your dealing with rational relatively balanced people. I would argue Adams is not and will not be that type of person in this situation. First off he’s a very off the cuff emotional seeming player with what seems like a big ego. These types of people generally don’t work well within the confines of number exchanges/gives and takes. They tend to add in non performance things like respect and can often take and/or make things personal very quickly – I doubt anything will be easy or straightforward pertaining to contract negotiations with Adams. As another poster alluded to earlier – look no further than what happened with Jarran Reed and ai would argue Adams will be even more difficult to deal with and more demanding of a giant contract extension.
Guess who…
https://mobile.twitter.com/WeAreBigGuys/status/1385294932311740424
Seattle has their number. Adams has his. There is no question Adams has more leverage than Seattle in negotiations. However, I think it is a mistake to say Seattle has none. With the way things ended in NY, if things ended similarly in Seattle with Adams taking a blow torch to the organization to force his way out, how does that help him in contract negotiations with his next team? If that were to occur, both organizations he played for thus far in the NFL couldn’t make it work. GM’s across the league would not be lining up to give that player a record setting contract at his position the following year.
It is in the sort term interest of both parties to work out a reasonable long term deal and if not then a trade. In the end, I hope Adams is traded.
Who said Seattle has no leverage?
But having ‘some leverage’ is pretty irrelevant anyway. It’s all about who has the most
I would argue the other way Jordan. I believe the Seahawks have more leverage as they have his 5th year option this year and can franchise him again next year for around $13m then do it again the next year for 120% of that. Obviously that isnt great to lower the cap hit but it wouldnt tie us down either. Yes he can hold out but we also have options that can get us through. Either way it will be interesting to see where the number comes in if it ever does.
Having the fifth year option and the franchise tag isn’t leverage.
It’s an argument the Seahawks can serve up to Adams and he can smash the return right past them by saying — ‘you spent the house on me, so pay me what I’m worth or I can make life very difficult for you’
It’s very, very naive to think Adams will embrace this.
As we’ve discussed this over the year Rob, I get the point you’re making here. And I don’t disagree with it. But I also don’t understand how you can argue that if he does this to the second straight franchise in a row, it will not have massive financial consequences to him. It will. A pissing contest that ends up in a double suicide, kills the Seahawks but it also still kills Adams. Nobody wins. Yes the Seahawks don’t win. But neither does Adams.
Why will it?
We live in a world where Antonio Brown gets chance after chance.
And you’re saying someone else wouldn’t pay Adams just because he kicked off because two others wouldn’t?
The Seahawks ceded leverage when they traded for him without an oven-ready deal. Just like the Texans/Rams did. It cost them and it will cost the Seahawks.
It really is as simple as that.
I would argue that the 5th year option/tag is a pretty good fallback position for the Seahawks if they cannot agree to terms on a longer deal, and the availability of the option/tag was part of what made Adams worth the draft capital. “Club control” is a big deal. Adams won’t like it, but the 5th year option/tag is out there and he can’t do anything about it.
Seattle should get a deal done if they see Adams fitting into their long-term plans.
It’s a nice thought that Seattle has this insurance of a fifth year deal and therefore are fully protected and there are no consequences of making him play on the fifth year option.
I’m quite sure Jamal Adams sees things very, very differently.
It isn’t actually because the status quo is going to shift. The leverage Adams has in the end hurts him.
Seahawks make an offer. Adams wants more. Seattle refuses. Seahawks don’t or can’t trade him. He refuses to play. In the short term that hurts Seattle more. It destroys their season. Adams absolutely has more leverage in the short term. But long term that changes completely. If he sits out, he doesn’t get paid and he hurts his value. Or he plays but doesn’t give 100% effort or he creates constant drama, it hurts his value. In the end, no one wins. It’s mutually assured destruction. It’s far better for both parties to work out a reasonable long term deal.
Sorry Jordan but this is extremely wishful.
What about the disruption it will cause? What about the potential massive issues internally? What if he decides he will play but they can get f-d after 2023? So you spent two firsts and a third for three years of Jamal Adams???
There’s way much more to this than that.
The minute you pay two firsts and a third for a player and don’t get a deal done the player holds the cards.
It’s just as simple as that. It’s proven.
Add to that the PC/JS will look like idiots for not seeing what Adams was going to realistically cost them in the first place.
And that’s a fair complaint to make about them if this lingers
Either way you look at it the Seahawks arent going to give Adams $18+ million a year. If he wants it then the starring contest starts. The Seahawks havent blinked in the past and I dont think they will blink this time.
Then they shouldn’t have paid what they did.
They’ve bought a shit storm.
There’s really no way around this thought that I can see. If they didn’t think that Adams was going to demand the highest contract for a safety in the NFL at the very least, then they will have brought this on themselves.
I can already imagine the colorful tweets targeting Pete, John, and the Seahawk organization. Sure, we’re not the Jets … but I think that makes no difference if Adams doesn’t get every cent he’s looking for. He knows how to play hardball, and more.
Jamal Adams and his camp see him as a position-redefining-high-impact-future-HOFer. PC/JS have to know that this is how Adams sees himself, and how he expects to be compensated to reflect this self perception. If they didn’t know that they were going to have to back up a truckload of cash to resign him…well…then…they’re living in fantasy land.
Agree
I’m just going to throw this out there: do the moves made to get Adams and Taylor last season, 5 high picks for one player who really doesn’t fit the scheme and another who may never play a snap, and the absolute desperation it points to for trying to win right now with no thought given to the long term health of the organization, offer a clue about Pete’s tenure? It’s obvious that he wants to win now – this is his best window for another Super Bowl, regardless of how un-Super Bowly this team is. This is it.
Does kicking the can down the road with Russ for one more year fit that idea? Yeah, it does. Clearly there are major issues in the relationship, but RW gives Pete the best shot at a championship. Unlikely, but better than if he brought in Darnold, or another new face. Win now.
So, a bevy of short term moves and continuing a relationship that is, at best, strained, for one more season seems non-optimal. There has to be more, right?
My thought – despite the new contract, could we be seeing the end of the Pete era in 2021?
Falling short, either in making the playoffs or repeating the first round ass beating they took last season, will be the end of either RW or Pete in Seattle. Probably. Maybe it’s not a given that RW is the guy leaving. Maybe they both go. Maybe neither. But Pete, at 70, has sold out a good portion of the future in an attempt to take one more swing. He may not want to be around for the dismantling of what he built. Could this be Pete’s last ride?
Apologies for speculation, but I’m not that jazzed about the draft and trading down multiple times from 56 and taking backup LBs and box safeties from directional Oklahoma. Trying to think positive thoughts.
We have been OK and lucky for a couple of seasons now, OK and unlucky would see us with a losing record.
It saddens me to think it, but going 7-10 or something like that, may be the jolt ownership needs to move on from Pete, and that may be best for the long-term future.
I think the Hawks missed a trick this winter, even if you’re going to extend P&J, it was time to switch the dynamic, make Schneider the senior partner as prep for Pete’s retirement; the younger man, able to keep up a little more easily with an ever-changing market place. Perhaps that just wouldn’t work for Pete, perhaps he would have walked away, but I don’t think the 5-year commitment to the status quo is good for the team.
This is why I think there’s a good chance we’ll see Pete trade a pick next year for some type of immediate help this year. Not saying they’ll dump their 2nd rounder next year, but I can see them trading a 3rd or 4th next year. Pete just doesn’t care about tomorrow. He’s proven that to us. And Schneider is a puppet to his bidding. I can’t imagine most GMs would like treating draft picks like a deadly virus the way Pete does.
Man the future is depressing but I think you guys are correct.
I’d be damn happy (and shocked) if Pete would do the John Elway thing and promote himself to a higher position of great honor, but removed from all football decision-making. I’m good with building a first- class statue.
Safe to assume Schneider is in the same ball park? Makes you wonder about Meinerz or Shaun Wade dropping.
Teams may only have 16 first round grades on the players in this draft, but you can guarantee that 32 players will be selected in round 1. That group may include Meinerz, and other guys who don’t have first round grades!
16 is the exact same number I have.
This makes me think a step further to believe those draft trade value charts are really much more dynamic year to year.
If the team is going to win now, I’m starting to think getting another explosive WR is the way to go for achieving the best record possible in ’22.
If they’re concerned about the future, which I know they’re not, I’d trade down down down over and over again and collect picks in 22, 23, and 24. I wouldn’t make that pick in the second round until at some point in the fourth round (but there’d be ammo for ’22, ’23, and ’24 in the draft, even if it’s multiple third and fourth rounders here and there).
I would tend to agree. You look at the holes we have for 21 and 22 and the most glaring one is WR3. Corner isnt that glaring this year but looks rough for 22. The same could be said for LT and RT. Center could be OK for this year but were not sure about 22. Sam could be another hole but I cant see us spending another high pick there. WR3 seems like the most logical choice to fill the needs of 2021 and 22.
WR3 might make the most sense in terms of filling needs in 2021 but there’s absolutely no way you can say that for 2022.
All of the cornerbacks, the left and right tackle, the free safety, the center, the TE1 and others are out of contract. Plus there’s a chance the QB finally moves on after another bout of drama.
How the heck would the guy third on the depth chart to Metcalf/Lockett be the biggest need compared to all of that??
Discretion is not the Cowboys thing, is it…😂 (I guess not surprising from the franchise that straight up published images of their actual draft board in the past…)
I mean, word had already gone out they would go corner, but just in case anyone still had doubts…
https://twitter.com/dallascowboys/status/1385341389043535882
The Seahawks will make their first pick one week from today (barring some type of shocking move).
And I get the sense this is going to be the most boring pre-draft week ever.
There’s barely anything left to discuss.
I’m hoping things will get stirred up a bit by some trades, players for picks or pre-draft trade-ups.
+1
More to analyze in this 11-second video than left to discuss about the draft!
Covid protocols saving lives…
https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1385612592329134082
That was wild!
KC just got Orlando Brown from the Ravens.
And for less than what we paid for Adams, of course
KC with grand theft- really just gave up their R1. The R2 they got could reasonably be used to trade back for the 3 and 4 they gave up.
It’s a damn good deal for the Ravens too, IMO. They can get a rookie LT at the end of the first and still trade down to the middle of the second and get more picks. Or pack 27 and 31 and go up for the right prospect.
I’m jealous.
I should have been rooting for the Chiefs all this years instead of my fricken Seahawks! How do they manage to keep doing this kind of stuff?
What I find amazing is that Andy Reid was kind of a joke at the end of his Eagles tenure. Now he’s becoming the Belichick of the 2020s.
I’ve only watched him a few times but I’d really like to see his pass block grades. Maybe he is a better fit in the run heavy Ravens offense as opposed to KC. Still a good price for a KC team that doesn’t have a ton of holes anyways.
Thuney and Brown. This is how you stop Russ complaining about the poor protection from the OL. We got Simmons, Fuller and Ogbuehi back.
The rich get richer…
They might want to move from 58 to 56.
Would have done that deal in a minute if we had our picks. What a shame. More I think about it the more pissed off I get about the Adams trade.
Maybe Baltimore would flip KC’s 2021 1st & 3rd round picks to us for Adams. My New Dream Bubble
I was so hoping We could get Orlando, pick 52, & 2022 3rd for Adams & Shell.
Another Great pickup by the Chiefs.
Bubble burst…..
Makes 0% sense. Plus Orlando wanted to be traded so he could play LT. So replace Shell with D. Brown.
Key words: “Orlando wanted to be traded”. Given that, I think the Ravens made out OK on this deal too.
Ravens and Chiefs are both teams that do talent evaluation pretty well. As a Seattle fan I’m a bit jealous.
You make deal contingent on extension & Orlando playing 1year at RT, then moving to left next year.
Doesn’t matter now though Orlando gone.
I’d give KC an A+
Great pick up and deal for KC for their new starting LT.
They swap pick 31 for 58, & swap a 2022 5th for a 2022 6th. They pretty for the most part, got Orlando for a 3rd & 4th round pick this year.
Baltimore a B-.
Baltimore has done well in draft on OL & DL. So the xtra 3rd and 4th in this draft definitely can help them fill holes. The other two were basically pick upgrades, so still very important. With a trade demand though, Baltimore atleast got a decent deal, but I’m guessing they thought they would get more.
I must admit i thought they would get more as well.
I found 2 different pick value charts. After looking at the pick values (if the picks are all accurate), and not including the later picks from next year. One has the trade value at pick #49, the other has the value at pick #30.
I miss when our GM used to actually, you know, talk to us…
Hiding from what will likely be the most tepid press conference you could imagine, too
‘How good is Bobby Wagner?’
LOL. Sadly this is true.
I’ve gotta give Joe Fann props though. He’s not afraid to ask challenging questions.
My best laugh of the day, Rob, as you may have predicted the actual first question. Well done.
What I want to know, Rob, is how you think we could do against Bobby Wagner in basketball. Those are the analytical questions I want answers to which will provide a deeper understanding of the workings of the Seattle Seahawks.
“How good is Bobby Wagner?”
Simple enough answer, good enough to be All Pro, good enough to lead an all time greatest defense, and good enough to obtain a long term contract in the waning years of his career.
I think you’ve missed the joke…
There’s a pretty good story about Sherman on ESPN. They really need to bring him back.
ESPN.com
Such a ridiculous pipe dream. Bridges burn bro
Off topic, but I came across this snippet while reading Bob McGinn’s ranking of this year’s QB draft class:
“I think there is more hope than talent,” an AFC scout said. “People are so desperate for these guys. I don’t see (Patrick) Mahomes. I don’t see (Peyton) Manning. I don’t see Aaron Rodgers. I see maybe Russell Wilson.”
Ouch. I think fundamentally, Russ believes he belongs in the same conversation as those generational QBs, but the team and the rest of the league doesn’t see him that way. And there is going to be friction as long as he maintains this outlook. One of the reasons Brady managed to succeed was because he was very aware of his own limitations (while retaining his confidence). He wasn’t deluded, he knew he couldn’t make certain throws. He just maximized the gifts that he had.
I hope the trade market not being as hot as expected will make Russ do some soul-searching this summer. But I suspect all the “Let Russ Cook” adulation and Mark Rodgers in his ear will stop that from happening.
Damn, that’s harsh.
This is just stupid talk. Trade Russ to New Orleans and let him cook up a Super Bowl entree
I think Russ is overrated and has glaring weaknesses. I was for him being traded. On the other hand, the Bears did offer 3 1st round picks, and 2 starters. That’s a pretty hefty price tag for a 33 year old.
What’s really to say about it all? Adams was a desperate grasp by Pete and John and now we are left hoping for the least painful outcome possible in the aftermath of such a terrible move.
It would seem there will be no trade. Too much invested already and there’s no way you get a decent return, add in the egg in the face for Pete and John along with the dead silence and draft possibilities and it would be a big surprise if he were moved before the draft.
You have to hope Pete and John realize their error with it all and are going to do their best to minimize the damages from here on out. My hope is they convince Adams/his agent that a deal will be done during the season. They can then continue to work on his role with the team and see how he holds up physically for half a season or so and go from there and Adams can try to cement his worth with a full offseason to integrate and a half(ish) season to keep good numbers up and prove he can stay healthier. More on-field time to check on his health and fit within the defense before biting the bullet on a big contract and who knows maybe another team that could really use Adams has an injury before the trade deadline or wants to get that last piece for a big playoff push and we could possibly get a bit of a return for him.
A half a season shouldn’t change much with regards to the anticipated extension yet it would give Pete and John more time to asses his role on the team, his health expectancy and even possibly create a new/better trade scenario.
Re: Orlando Brown trade.
Imagine getting a young left tackle, during a championship window, from a rival, for much less than you’d have to give up for a strong safety.
(This is another comment on the Adams trade).
But he’s more than just a strong safety dontcha know, he’s a “weapon”. Waaaaay more important than a guy to protect your biggest investment’s blind side.
{end sarcasm}
If the Seahawks didn’t have Jamal Adams, they could have probably had this instead:
Orlando Brown and their 3rd round pick this year AND their 1st round pick next year.
What a horrible and terrible way to look at it to make you feel just you’ve just been kicked in the gut by Chuck Norris.
That post was terribly difficult to read
Rob – I know this is extremely hard to project, but which WR would you like to see available who may realistically be there at 56 (or could be there with a potential slide down)…
I’m starting to think THEY will take a weapon. I’d prefer an OL, DT, CB, or even RB if Williams fell… but it’s not about what I want (or we’d still have our picks and not Jamal Adams), it’s what Pete wants and that’s what I think he might be thinking…
The way I’ve heard Jamal Adams described sounds a little like how I would describe myself. Off the cuff, speak from the heart, confident (is he cocky?), and he seems intelligent. I hear people talk about how he’ll behave for contract negotiations and it makes me wonder how I would handle a contract negotiation. He came to this team knowing that nothing would change. In fact HE AGREED to play last season with no guarantee for the future. I don’t expect anything to get too crazy. I think the Jets are a disrespectful organization. If Jamal is respected, I think he’ll be respectful. I expect him to make $16.5 Million average. Maybe $16.75 at most. Some might think it’s wishful thinking, but based on what I know of the man, I believe he can be reasonable and make a smart decision.
On another note, I think they should add a part to the whole draft picks for free agents. If someone becomes a free agent, and either sets the market or is paid in the top 3 of a position, the team should be able to get a 2nd round pick.
Clearing up the last part
– If a team loses a player that ends up being paid in the top 3 for the position; the team that loses him will be comped a 2nd round pick.
I think he came to Seattle EXPECTING SOMETHING TO CHANGE.
I haven’t heard one negative thing come from him since he got here. He’s said great things about the Seahawks, and said how happy he is to be playing for a winning organization. I’m not sure what everyone is expecting, but the more I think about it the more I see someone who just wanted out of a terrible place. I can empathize with being in a terrible work situation.
It is wishful thinking
Homerun if Chase were to fall to them.
Man, that would be an awesome draft for the Hawks. But here we are, less than a week from the draft still lamenting a trade that left our cupboards empty.
Just for the sake of self-torture, what would everyone’s perfect draft be if we had the Dolphins’ picks mentioned above without our 56?
#6 – Penei
#18 – D Smith(size causes fall in this fantasy of a fantasy)
#36 – J Williams
#50 – Meinerz
I’m going to go ahead and stick my neck out for Michael Carter: I love this dude.
His vision and feel for the run game is amazing, and he’s got the agility and explosiveness to hit what he sees. And not just on outside runs either. He knows how to navigate between the tackles and reads the flow of the play and his blockers exceptionally well.
Would love to pair him up with Carson and have that change-of-pace guy in the backfield who would open up the playbook a whole bunch as well with what he can do in the short passing game.
Consistent production over 4 years, and averaged 8.0 ypc in 2020! Bonus experience as KR.
Oh, forgot about the ball security requirement?
But, but… Senior Bowl production?
Plus voted his team’s top RB by LB and DS groups at the Senior Bowl.
I know we have other needs and he doesn’t fit our traditional profile, but if we could trade down a couple times and get him at the top of R3, I’d dig it.
Our team doesn’t function properly without a very good running game. Never a bad idea if you can snag a great one.
He’d be my first choice if available.
Rob: I have an idea you may want to -consider- for a future pre-draft article. “Hidden Gems”. This would at least provide something for discussion & who knows, maybe you (and/or commenters) will spot some real “Hidden Gems” that the Seahawks have an opportunity to sign (or draft in Rd-7). I realize that this is a departure from your normal and excellent coverage of a draft, but this draft isn’t a normal one either with the lack of high round picks. IMO- If #56 is traded down – the “emphasis” for the Seahawks will have to be the Day-3/UDFA guys. I hope their scouting department is up for it.
Do to the facts that the Seahawks have:
(1) Very limited draft picks with very little possibility to increase unless by trading down & down again.
(2) A history of bringing in a lot of both veteran FA’s & UDFA’s in past years,
(3) A recent history of the Seahawks having traded a future years pick to get back into Rd-7.
(4) Seahawks having actually found a few starter/backup gems in the past as UDFA’s.
(5) SDB’s history of excellent analysis of Day-1/2 prospects, which sadly -doesn’t apply- nearly as much this year due to the lack of higher picks.
Day-1/2 of the draft is going to be “painful” as all of the highly “desired” Seahawk players leave the board. UDFA’s are likely the way the Seahawks HAVE to go to add more talent this year, so I see them putting a lot of attention into looking at the later round guys that their scouts have identified as potential targets.
I’d like to see SDB’s list of some potential targets for the Seahawks as Rd-7/UDFA’s as “Hidden Gems” or whatever you want to call them. I don’t know about others, but I’ve spent a lot of time looking at potential day-3/UDFA possibilities and I’ve seen a few that offer great potential, with their testing numbers and/or performance. IMO- there are a lot of overlooked players that may not get drafted this year and that may be to the advantage of the Seahawks with so few picks. Can we find and identify a bunch of them?
Last mock for me before the draft, using PFN simulator. Tried to simulate a poor trade environment so that trading back into this year was inefficient when offering up next-year’s picks. Tried not to draft any really misplaced CPU errors, like Mond in the 5th round. Here’s what happened:
TRADE – SEA 2022 4th for JAX 2021 #145
TRADE – SEA 2022 5th for CAR 2021 #193 & #256
#56 – OC J Meyers, Ohio State (Meinertz went pick before, or he woulda’ been choice)
#129 – CB B St-Juste, Minnesota (Loved this guy’s interview w/ SDB, been climbing carts lately)
#145 – WR S Smith, S Carolina (rated this better than 145, so seemed like value & need)
#193 – DT D Stills, W Virginia (like this guy in a fairly weak year for DT’s)
#250 – RB C Evans, Michigan (hoping he can catch old form and prove a steal)
#256 – TE J Bates, Boise State (TE3, good for head knocking and power sets)
Didn’t seem like an awful haul, but it did generate a bit of a dearth of draft capital again next year. Hopefully we’d trade/recover some of that between now & then.
Just wanted to give some credit to Rob for nailing Javonte Williams before everyone else. The way people are talking about him now is insane. Some of the best quotes from Bob McGinn’s running backs preview:
“If Javonte Williams has detractors, they certainly weren’t among the 13 NFL executives in personnel who discussed him for the NFL Draft series. [Williams] is widely admired and almost never nit-picked…”
[Frank] Gore’s name came up in one AFC draft room when scouts were in the office as a group watching tape of Williams. The similarities would include a low-to-the-ground style, the knack for finding ways in and out of piles, the ability to dart around and through trash to avoid injury and bleeding runs with churning legs and courage.”
“Williams is a really complete running back who plays in an old-school way,” an NFC executive said. “It’s still very effective in today’s game. He will fight for every yard.”
“It’s his strength and physical passion,” an NFC personnel man said. “Maybe one of the strongest guys you’ve been around in the weight room for his size. Guys just bounce off this guy. He’s got toughness in his running style.”
“He’s a ground pounder,” said one scout. “He’s going to get you 4 to 6 yards every time because he breaks tackles. People bounce off him. He’s a short, thick-hipped, thick-legged kid. He’s got surprising speed.”
“He led the NCAA in broken tackles running between the tackles last year,” said a second scout. “That’s like Nick Chubb stuff. He is really assertive running in between the tackles.”
And he was absolutely gettable, as was Chubb and a host of other bad-asses over the years. Somewhere around 2016, our personnel department seemed to forget what “Seahawks” football was supposed to be and just started winging it…
Rob is generally ahead of the curve every year from the talking heads in the national media. Rob and the teams know ahead of time what the others have to catch up on.
I’d rather have Javonte over Adams. Look at the contracts the 22nd pick will made vs. what Adams wants. Plus, then the Seahawks would still have a 3rd this year and their 1st next year. I’m such a dejected fan thanks to Pete Carroll and his narrow vision.
Carolina GM says they will not decide to pick up Sam Darnold’s 5th year option until after the draft. Not sure what that means? Did they get Darnold to use as a trade piece for an elite veteran quarterback plus the 8th pick etc,?
Easily could be a smokescreen to make teams think they might take a QB when they’re not.
What is there to gain by doing it any day before the deadline? Best to keep options open.
Hopeful that we haven’t heard anything about Addams contract because they intend to trade him during the draft. I like him as a player, but he isn’t special in the Hawks system and definitely not a 15-20 million a year guy. Seeing the article about the Jets trading both of there first round picks for RW in someone’s mock draft just kills me. It’s hard to be a Hawk fan with RW personality but the rollercoaster of dealing with his off season antics and possibly of getting a haul for him just to have them kick the can down the road another year has just sucked the joy entirely out of this offseason. The article about Seahawks QB moves had me so excited for about two seconds before realizing they where talking about Geno Smith resigning. I don’t think I’ve ever experienced a more frustrated offseason after being a avid fan for 30 years. Trading for and then resigning a mediocre to bad offense lineman who has consistently gotten worse each year, losing a okay DT over a childish contract issue, and Aldon Smith choking some dude out in a Home Depot parking lot has got to add up to the most underwhelming offseason in my memory, overpaying for a good not great WR to a third contract. Sorry to be such a ray of sunshine, the Hawks still have a good team but don’t seem like any moves have happened substantial enough to help this team carry a overrated and frankly just not very good QB thru the playoffs.
Last offseason was far more frustrating. This offseason is just more of the same.
I liked the moves last year and am unwilling to jump on that bandwagon although it’s the popular opinion. Dedicated to the trenches on both sides of the ball avoiding the big free agent splash moves that media types love, and got rookies and sophomores on the field and contributing while being cost effective. So they missed on a center who couldn’t get the work in a weird offseason, still hit on a right tackle, Left guard, rotational DE depth, LB who looks like a future superstar, and solid if not spectacular DT in Mone and rightfully ignored media pressure to resign Clowney and ending with a far superior player in Dunlap.
On the negative side last year was Addams, Olson, but beyond that was last year one of my favorite off-seasons and 12-4 is validation they made lots of good decisions to go along with a couple small misses and what I’ll consider a massive miss in Addams (though I put that entirely on GM RW) for now baring trade or greatly improved play.
I think it’s a bit rich saying Jordyn Brooks ‘looks like a future superstar’.
And while you say they ‘avoided the big free agent splash move’ — how would you assess their inability to adequately address their self-confessed priority of fixing the pass rush, spending far too long leaving the door open for Jadeveon Clowney (who they wanted to pay big money to, he simply wanted even more), forcing them to make a desperate trade up for Darrell Taylor (a player we may never see) and then feeling like they need to spend the house on Jamal Adams because right before training camp, they’d failed to make any impact signings on defense. That’s a move you yourself have described as a negative.
They also managed to spend $50m last year including $10m on Olsen & Hollister, the same cost of Jack Conklin’s cap hit went on Ogbuehi, Finney and Shell. They gave an ageing Bruce Irvin a significant pay increase despite him saying he only had intentions to sign for Seattle and they gave Jarran Reed a big contract with no friendly out in 2021, meaning they’ve now had to pay him to go away.
So sure, they didn’t spend on ‘big names’. They did spend though, they spent a fortune. And what exactly did they get for the investment?
So if you will, can you tell me how this correlates with what you consider a successful off-season?
They spend a decent amount to add overall depth and talent to the oline addressing 2/5 of the positions successfully, and took a shot albeit unsuccessfully on 3/5 but whiffed. I know I’m a total homer, but I see a lot to like about Brooks but your probably right to not expect another Wag out of him. It was still the right move as far as making KJ or Wagner not absolutely essential as their at ages and contracts. Always draft a year ahead so you don’t get absolutely smoked in contract negotiations, or at least bought a lottery ticket for getting out of that next contract. Standing pat on Clowney was the right move, disappointing it took into the season to get it done, but got a better replacement at far better cost in Dunlap. Taylor was of course plan A, and who knows how’s the Hawks medical staff missed there, apparently Snyder said the got two physicals on him before quarantine. For the most part it was good sustainable process in team building and cap management as the misses are easy to walk away from.
I can’t really defend an offseason that Morgaged more than 2 first round picks for a safety as the headline, and Olson was a head scratcher, but the team improved overall especially depth.
Did they get $50m worth of value for their FA spending?
Do you agree that the deals I listed, which constitute the bulk of their free agent work, were baffling?
But what ‘isn’t making Wagner essential’ by remaining committed to paying him $17m this year and $20m next year? Plus why did you need to spend a first round pick to ‘plan ahead’ at linebacker??
That’s not the point I made. They didn’t move off Clowney, they waited far too long for him and then put themselves in a huge bind as a consequence. Also, they wanted to pay him big money as I mentioned, just not what he wanted. Were they right to feel that way? They called him a priority.
Was he? Or was the desperate trade for him Plan B or C when they had failed to address their self-confessed priority?
I think they had a visit with him before visits were banned. I don’t recall any talk of how many physicals they had. Either way, it was a reckless move because there were legit reports going into the draft about his injury concerns.
You’ve glossed over my counters.
Yes, they took smaller shots on smaller names excepting that a certain amount of the moves could fail, but some would hit. Right off I’ve been entirely against the Olson and Hollister moves but understand it was depth on an injury riddled position. Bruce means a lot to Hawk fans, a great locker room guy and was solid if not spectacular depth at a position of need. He got injured, so moot point but I’m not going to complain about sliding Bruce a few extra dollars.
I agree without deciding not to resign KJ or move Wag that Brooks would be a waste of a first rounder pick. They still haven’t resigned KJ and would think if they do it will be a bargain compared to if they didn’t have Brooks. Regardless we need a mix of ages, can’t have Wag and KJ hit the wall at the same time. They tried with lesser picks in the previous year, and since it wasn’t enough had to seriously address it with a first. The blame isn’t on picking Brooks, it’s on the Barton pick not hitting to me.
I was hoping they’d target DL in the draft, even if it was a redshirt year would have been stoked with Taylor. To be fair I don’t think anyone had any inclination it could be career threatening since that seems to be the whispers than nobody seems willing to go into. He wouldn’t have been available if it wasn’t for the high risk/ high reward nature. Still preferably to take that high risk/ high reward shot with a 2nd round draft pick than sink 20 million on an injury prone undersized 5 tech, who can’t convert pressure to sacks. We have less needs this year, without having caused massive cap problems in the future. You only get so many superstars contracts, and when you add one you must lose another, sure grab Conclin, then try to figure out how to fit his contract with RW, Wag, Brown, Lockett, soon Metcalf in the future. At least take a shot on a rookie before paying top dollar and use free agency laterally to cover positions until you can draft replacements without getting caught up in massive contracts to aging players. The team improved, the misses didn’t leave us in cap hell, and the hits show potential of having long term contributions. I don’t love every move, but liked the process over the last couple seasons besides the Addams trade. Nothing against Addams, but that’s QB value.
No, this was not depth. They spent $10M on these two players.
You’ve glossed over the point I made again, regarding the unnecessary cost. Bruce’s popularity with fans is irrelevant.
So because they tried and failed on Cody Barton, they’re justified spending a first rounder on a linebacker of the future? Come on.
Many people voiced very serious concerns. It’s simply not true that this is an issue that has caught everyone off guard. I literally went on numerous podcasts myself and brought up that he could go undrafted due to these issues, because that was suggested due to the covid-impacted off-season, the lack of proper medical intel and the seriousness of his injury.
Now you’re going with a strawman argument. Nobody said it had to be $20m on Clowney or a Taylor trade. You can’t wriggle out of this by trying to frame it that way.
We had the same needs this year and a whole host of needs from next year onwards exist.
The point on Conklin is frankly bizarre. How can they afford his contract with those guys?? They literally traded for Jamal Adams months later!
You haven’t directly addressed any of the valid counters I made. You just keep dancing around them. I think we’ve come to a natural conclusion here.
My first attempt at using the PFN draft simulator. Traded down three times (56 to TB for 64+176, 64 to PHI for 84+150, and 129 also to TB for 137+217). It really hurts only starting a draft with three picks, none of them high.
3.84 T D’Ante Smith
4.137 WR Cade Johnson
5.150 CB Benjamin St.-Juste
5.176 DT Darius Stills
6.217 RB Chris Evans
7.250 WR Jonathan Adams, Jr.