T.J. Lang won’t be signing with the Seahawks. He’s joining the Detroit Lions after agreeing a three-year contract.
Lang spent the weekend visiting with Seattle. It’s possible the Lions stepped up their interest as he prepared to make a decision, potentially offering an amount the Seahawks and Packers were not willing to pay.
There are reasons why this shouldn’t be seen as terrible news:
1. Lang is injured
He’s set to miss all of the off-season as he recovers from hip surgery and a broken foot. He had a similar situation a year ago as he recovered from shoulder surgery — but he already had chemistry with his team mates in Green Bay. His first playing time in Detroit could be pre-season or it could be week one of the regular season. Not ideal.
Lang isn’t as young as the other offensive linemen getting paid this year. He turns 30 in 2017 and has had a few injuries. It might be something that concerned the Packers enough to balk at re-signing him.
2. Green Bay didn’t prioritise him
The Packers made two significant moves in free agency. They paid linebacker Nick Perry and brought in Martellus Bennett. Have a look at this tweet:
Of their own free agents, the #Packers' off-season priorities were Perry and Cook. Neither Lang nor anyone else was close to a priority.
— Bob McGinn (@BobMcGinn) March 9, 2017
Lang clearly stated the Packers would get first refusal on any offer he received on the open market. They just let him join a competitive divisional rival, despite having plenty of cap room available.
Lament Seattle’s ability not to complete this signing if you want but Green Bay didn’t feel too strongly about needing to keep him.
3. The Seahawks can use this money elsewhere
There’s still a number of good players available on the open market and Seattle has money to spend:
UPDATED CAP SPACE: Seahawks have $12M in true cap space (includes accounting for IR, Practice Squad, rooks, Joeckel, etc)
— Evan (@EvanonHB) March 12, 2017
They’re not going to land a big name free agent O-liner — but it’s a bad market this year. Supply is not meeting demand and look at the crazy contracts being handed out. Even Seattle is offering $7m guaranteed to take a punt on Luke Joeckel.
They should be able to land a free agent running back at a team-friendly price. They might be able to pursue a veteran defensive lineman like Connor Barwin. They can look at what’s left on the O-line or D-line.
And perhaps more importantly — they can use the $12m left to reward their own (see: Kam Chancellor).
Seattle clearly wanted to sign Lang. Why else would they bring him in for a pitch and visit? They likely wanted to do this on their terms though. Their price, their value. Not overpaying and getting desperate. The kind of approach that often keeps good teams at the top.
Nobody was talking about Lang two weeks ago. A lot of people wanted to see Russell Okung return. There were discussions about Riley Reiff and Matt Kalil. Lang only really appeared on the radar of Seahawks fans when it was revealed he was coming in for a visit.
That’s worth remembering if you’re feeling overly disappointed by today’s news.
***Update***
The #Lions deal for former #Packers G TJ Lang: $9.5M average for 3 years with $19M fully guaranteed, source said.
— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) March 12, 2017
$9.5m a year and $19m guaranteed is a considerable sum. Reportedly Green Bay offered $7m a year and only $6.5m guaranteed.
Go Hawks!
I’m starting to wonder if Obi will be drafted before 26 now. The way people talk about him now…and this
http://draftwire.usatoday.com/2017/03/10/2017-nfl-mock-draft-1st-round-projections-after-start-of-free-agency/
I’m ok with Lang signing elsewhere. A high priced OG shouldn’t be a priority right now imo.
To be fair, this is the only mock I’ve seen with Obi going in R1. And FWIW, Easterling also predicts Davis to TEN, MWilliams to BUF, Watson lasting to 12 and both Kizer and Cook in R1 (about which I have doubts).
That’s good to hear this is the only mock you’ve seen with Obi going in the first. Somehow I went from this article:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000792190/article/move-the-sticks-notebook-melifonwu-rising-into-round-1-range
Straight to that mock, and kind of panicked. Easterling is also admittedly a Bucs homer who previously mocked Baker there right after he did a bunch of tape study on him. After this whole process Obi immediately is the top guy I want in RD 1.
I believe our current thinking is that either Obi or King or both will be available at #26. However = it isn’t good to fall in love with a player before the draft. It’s more interesting to project positions, and there are plenty of defensive players to fill that spot through the top three rounds.
And of course the Seahawks may pull one of their patented moves, pass up both Obi and King, move down into the second round, and pick some shmoe we aren’t following.
Damnit Alaska, you’re probably right.
Nother to many sites, I trust on rankings either. Many still have King as a 3rd round prospect, versatility, production, combine, and tape say otherwise. I would be down with many scenarios for the draft. Hope King is there at our pick. I’m liking Josh Jones a lot a SS. Needs to tamper the aggression a tad, but a really nice player. Athletic, smart, and a big thumper to boot. Might even slide to the 3rd round. Lots of great defensive players early and late.
Bolles wasn’t even on there… Corey Davis at #5? seems very unrealistic
DRAFTTEK has Obi going to Seattle @26…
Walter Football has TJ Watt going to Green Bay in the 1st.
That’s not totally crazy, but it may push another linebacker down to Seahawks if TJ Watt goes that high. I suspect Packers will be looking on defense in the first few rounds, but maybe secondary like the Seahawks.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2697405-2017-nfl-mock-draft-projections-for-top-prospects-as-free-agency-continues.amp.html
Obi and King both don’t go in the first here. I guess it speaks to how good this draft is, but players are all over the board in these mocks.
Joeckel’s numbers came out and it’s 7m guaranteed? Wow, more than I thought.
I guess that means he’ll be on the 53 no matter what.
Awful signing. The only OL who has been almost as bad as Seattle was Jacksonville and he could not even remain a starting OT for them. Even worse it is a one year deal so best case scenario he actually makes the team and plays well then we loose him next off season.
It is typical to how the Hawks have managed the OL in that is makes absolutely no sense. He does not even fit the TEF profile and is know as soft certainly does not sound like a Cable OL man to me.
If he plays well then he’ll have been worth the salary they paid him while Fant gets another year of experience under his belt. I wouldn’t complain in that situation at all, even if it was only a one year rental.
One thing’s for sure, they most likely aren’t paying him $7 Mill to add to the competition. He’s brought in to start somewhere on this line.
They will have an option on him.
I think they paid too much for Joekel, but it’s only one year so either he balls and can resign, or lose him and get a comp.
I would actually prefer the lines mostly stays the same and the experience and chemistry makes them better.
Fant/Glow/Britt/Ifedi/Joekel
I like an OL of Fant–Glow/Odhi–Britt–Ifedi–Joeckel, with Gilliam as swing T and Glow/Odhi as swing G.
Might GG might go the way of Pig Bailey if we keep demoting him
I suppose his contract would most likely cancel out Willson’s possible contract for a comp pick aye?
Agree Ed completely baffling to me and an awful signing at that price ranking right up there with Carey Williams and Jamarcus Webb for JS worst FA moves.
I don’t know about awful, but coming off a presser where JS just said he regretted trying to fix the OL on the cheap, it appears they turned right around and did the exact same thing. I get Ed’s optimism, in that if it’s a bad deal it’s only one year, but don’t get this “he either balls out and it’s great, or he doesn’t an no big deal b/c we aren’t on the hook.”
‘Cause if the “if he doesn’t” part comes to fruition, we just wasted another year in a championship window. All for $3MM probably. Because we spent $7MM on a maybe solution, when we probably could have just paid Ricky Wagner $10MM (or maybe 9; who knows if he would have taken the same or less to play for an actual contender) to play RT and be an ACTUAL solution, not a maybe solution. In essence, to save $3MM we are betting an entire year on whether Luke Joeckel can be an effective LT for us.
If we’re going to play the ‘if’ game — what ‘if’ the Seahawks knew what they were doing with this group all along and they end up growing and developing and providing Seattle with a great, cost-effective unit for the next 3-5 years at a time when other teams are wasting money on average OL’s in free agency?
And what if the below average lineman that we currently have get Wilson injured again? It is malfeasance on behalf of Schneider not to fix the offensive line.
And what if they do a really good job and Wilson freakishly gets injured anyway, like he did in 2016 (twice)?
We can do this ‘what if?’ game all day.
As for Schneider fixing the O-line, they just spent $7m on an offensive linemen.
Wouldn’t say it’s fixed until we see the outcome. He will be starting for Fant or Gilliam hopefully. Just glad they brought someone in to compete with them.
I wouldn’t argue it’s ‘fixed’ completely — but find it hard to complain that Seattle isn’t doing anything to try and remedy the problem when they just spend $7m on a tackle.
I know they did something, but it looks like another half-measure. That’s my point. What if the line does grow and improve as a group? Great, but if you waste three years to get to that point, I’d still say you screwed up. It’s not like we were one of these teams w/o a QB; in those cases there may be no other, better answer than to take three years and draft/groom a guy. But there are much quicker, better fixes available for every other position group in the NFL, including OL.
I really hope Joeckel works out. It’s not like I’m upset we got him; the addition of a guy w/ his experience and talent can only help, not hurt.
There is no quick fix, Rhino. They didn’t have the ability to go out and spend $11-12m a year on Matt Kalil or Russell Okung. Neither would anyone want them to spend that kind of money for such middling talent. The market went away from them.
There aren’t two roads here, one taking you down an aggressive spending spree that is possible and fun and rewarding, and a road that takes you to ‘developing your own guys’ and hoping for the best. That simply isn’t true.
Yes. We and everyone else can do the what if game all-day-long.
How was it the line’s fault that Wilson got injured? I’d say both times he managed to last year were on him tbh. He causes a lot of problems for himself, and for his line. You put the boys we have in front of someone like, say, Brady, and they’d look very different.
The Seahawks have an extremely demanding scheme for their lineman, it’s not just as simple as ‘fixing’ it.
I’d like a fair accounting of the problems Wilson solves for the o line whenever the “problems” he “causes ” are brought up.
Not that I don’t agree but what is JS supposed to do. We needed to acquire an OL and the market was high this year. Its only a 1 year deal and we’re still sitting ok under the salary cap. It was worth a shot for 7M.
We don’t know that yet–and we do know it about Williams and Web. But at this stage it’s certainly a candidate.
There will be interior guy’s in the draft who will be able to compete for a starting position.
PFF had him graded pretty well as a run blocker. He might work out pretty well on RT.
Alternatively, I had this thought: Fant, Joeckel, Britt, Glow, Ifedi.
Fant stays at LT where they like him to continue developing, Joeckel plays LG where he might fit the Cable ideal better than Glow, Glow moves back to RG where, again, might fit Cable’s ideal there more, and Ifedi transitions to RT.
Really hope Fant takes a great leap forward or someone beats him out because, while his athleticism earned him the starting nod last year, his inexperience too often turned into a liability.
How much of a raise do you think Kam will/should get? He’s injury prone but and making 6.8 million base this season. I can’t imagine him getting more than 8 million/season on his extension. All this just to say, giving him an extension probably won’t be too big of a cap hit depending on how they deal with his signing bonus.
IDK, but I really hope he’s not going to demand the $12m/apy that Reshad Jones got, as Bob Condotta suggested the other day:
http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/reshad-jones-contract-might-have-further-complicated-kam-chancellors-future-in-seattle/
What wouldn’t he? He has been a much better player than Jones, won an SB and is the undisputed leader on our defense. Of course he will ask for that much. That is wy the deal should have been done like Mike Bennetts long before free agency.
Kam will just be another major distraction hanging over the team now.
I guess I have been out of the loop on contracts safeties are getting now. I can definitely see him wanting that amount of money, only thing that could bring that number down is injuries. Still, with that Jones contract Kam seems to be in-line for 10 million a year at least.
At least I’m pretty comfortable he won’t hold out. But it will suck to have it looming over everything otherwise.
The Pats somehow manage to get teams to play well when they don’t extend players who want to be extended with a year left. So Pete may have to show he can do that, too…
Or trading them away when they pout. Like he did with Collins.
Reshad Jones is a serious player. He’s very, very, good.
We should be considering Kam for trade or ultimately looking at him as a soon to be comp pick. He will never be BAM BAM KAM again!
Why? I really hope this isn’t what this blog is going to turn into.
Kam is the leader of one of the greatest defences of all time. We’ve seen how badly his absence hurts the team, I really don’t understand why so many people want to get rid of him. Seriously, what do you think we’d be able to trade him for? A third, a fourth, at best? It’s baffling to me.
His impact when he plays in indisputable. e.g. His coverage of Gronk on the final play was the difference in the away victory in Foxboro.
But 12 mil a year sounds really steep for a strong safety that always misses time, even one as great as Kam’s been.
I hope he’s reasonable and accepts 9-10…
I’m a huge Kam fan but that is the point I’m a fan. The front office has to be ahead of the decline curve. Not fall in love with guys that won us the SB 4 seasons ago. His value will never be higher and his play will never get better.
Agreed, the only question is how long his health will allow him to perform at this level. I think he has already peaked so I would hope they wouldn’t guarantee too much money if they resign Kam.
This is probably the reason they appear to be so interested in Obi
Kam now has to be a priority to extend, I would hope. He tweeted this just 5 hours ago:
“When workers are appreciated, they work harder”
Regardless, I’m not surprised Lang went elsewhere. Like Evan Mathis before him, I don’t think Lang really wanted to play in Seattle but he was happy to hear their offer and use that leverage to get more money from a poorly-managed team with more cap space. Cue the Detroit Lions.
Really not looking forward to all the cynical jokes and endless complaining about yet another mediocre O-line for Seattle, but I also didn’t expect them to spend their entire cap on brand name veteran O-line either. Not the way PC/JS play the game.
Not one person had brought it up yet on this thread. Until now.
That’s really kind of an odd and unfortunate quote for me to read, even a bit narcissistic. Kam was treated very well by this F.O., given a maket-setting contract before his play even warranted it. They showed a tremendous amount of faith in his future contributions and he was rewarded handsomely. If in fact this is a reference by Kam at not yet receiving an extension, it’s disappointing to me he would even suggest he’s not always “working harder.” If his quote pertains to something else, I withdraw my mini-rant and criticism.
To be fair, I believe they low-balled Evan Mathis based on what he ended up signing for with the Broncos.
Thanks for talking us off the ledge Rob! Much appreciated.
I’m bummed because money aside Lang would have been an instant upgrade & our best lineman. With that said, still plenty of time to make moves that will improve this team.
Should be a fun next few days with all the RB’s that are supposed to be visiting or have visited. Go Hawks!
“Lang would have been an instant upgrade & our best lineman”
I don’t think we can say that considering Lang’s injury status. An OL is only as good as his availability and chemistry wit the rest of the line.
Come on.
Joeckel is coming off ACL/MCL/meniscus all in one and missed almost all of last season. Lang had off-season surgery last year and went to the Pro Bowl. Both have the same amount of chemistry with our line.
Lang has played well but is also coming off an injury. All Eric is saying is that we don’t know how well Lang will play after the injury and how well and quickly he’ll mesh with our OL and so to proclaim him as an instant upgrade is a little premature…valid point. I would have liked to have Lang as another veteran and possible starter among our young players but it’d still be a crap shoot as to how much an impact he would have made. I’m a little disappointed but am now looking forward to see what they do with that available cap money.
More importantly, he is no longer a packer. The best new this free agency is that all the best off teams lost good players without adding much. Trust in the Hawks. They got us.
Meant to say, the best NFC teams got worse….autocorrect…
I have no doubt the impact an All Pro guard would have made to one of the worst o-lines in the league last year. He would have made a massive impact.
To try and even suggest otherwise is engaging in deliberate self deception.
He wasn’t all pro…
And he didn’t play in the pro bowl because he was injured.
Here’s an updated top 50 list of FA still available if anyone wants to throw out some more names that could be worth a look:
http://nfltraderumors.co/top-2017-nfl-free-agents-list/
Is DT Al Woods a FA?
Yes, he was released Mar 8.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tennessee-titans/al-woods-6631/
Woods was cut last week, cited for poor play against the run. At this point, if it’s not someone like Bennie Logan, I’d look to ad a vet who could offer sone rotational interior rush, and then see what they draft brings.
Very disappointed when I saw the news and I needed this read. I’m reframing things now.
I feel like we should have our pick of the RB group now for 2.5-4 million. In what order do you all prefer them? I think I’m chasing greatness and just like the idea, but I’d go:
1. AD
2. Charles
3. Murray
4. Lacy
Murray is young but uninspiring. Lacy has one game where he looks like Marshawn followed by 6 where he disappears. I’ll swing for the fences with the hall of famers. Thoughts?
I think it comes down to if Charles is healthy in the eyes of the SEA staff & of course the amount of money on a short-term deal.
I know Lacy is 4th on your list but I have a hunch he may be the cheapest plus open to a one-year deal to re-establish his value. A 1-2 punch of Lacy & Rawls could be fun.
I like Blount for a cheap alternative. I know his yardage doesn’t look good, but he was used a lot for short yardage and red zone play.
+1
Blount is actually a pretty terrible short yardage runner–at least he was prior to this past season. He requires some space to get up to top speed and once there he’s tough to bring down. He runs like a much smaller back despite his size. Even though I’m not a Lacy fan I’d much prefer him to Blount.
What makes you say Blount was a terrible short yardage runner? Any stats?
From Pats Pulpit, Feb 2016:
“Running back LeGarrette Blount is often misclassified as a short-yardage back because of his tremendous 255 lbs frame, but he’s actually really bad. He ranks 202nd out of 224 players with 50+ short yardage attempts since 1994 with an ugly 57.1% conversion rate.”
k thanks for that. how the heck has he scored so many TDs then?
Maybe volume? That Patriots offense scores a lot of points and you give a back enough cracks from the one yard line and he’ll score his share of TDs.
Yes, volume. It’s also possible he was better in short yardage this year…I haven’t seen the stats.
Keep in mind that he is 30 and had a career year–98 more carries and 11 more TDs than any other year. Also not a fan of how he burned bridges in Pittsburgh.
I’d prefer to take a chance on an aging generational talent having one or two more good years in them.
All I know was that he was paid 1 million last year. There is a good chance he will play with Patriots at that number (since they have two other starting backs) or go to another team on a 1-2 million dollar deal.
@Alaskahawk I’d be down for 1 million, but doubt he goes that cheaply after the year he had. He almost doubled his previous year’s yardage and tripled the TD’s.
I would imagine given Lang’s health, the Hawks probably pitched a one year deal to Lang. Detroit offered 3 years and that would clinch it.
OL currently looks like
Fant-Glowinski-Britt-Ifedi-Gilliam
Joeckle-Odhi-Hunt-Odhi-Joeckle
Robert Meyers and Will Pericak are guards on futures deals, Ross Burbank is a Center.
Details on the Joeckle deal: $7 million guaranteed — a $4.25 million signing bonus and Joecke’s base salary. $2.75 million (+ $1 million in per-game roster bonuses)
I agree Kenny that will likely be our O line and is why the Joeckel deal makes less than zero sense.
Agreed, how strange.
Really? You all think Fant will beat out Joeckle at LT?
The fact the Gilliam’s tender offers no guaranteed money, I wouldn’t be surprised if they rescind to free up cash for another vet. I just don’t see him being a big part of the team moving forward.
After the Joeckel cap hit news, you got to think he’s being brought in to either be our starting LT or RT. I’m excited about bringing in a vet RB or d linemen if something team-friendly pans out.
As far as the draft goes, I still think they need to go defensively heavy throughout. There are young depth and development o liners in the mid to late rounds. Not signing Lang shows me that not only was he asking too much, but the Hawks know some of their own guys are going to need extensions soon (e.g. Kam, Britt, Jimmy, Clark, Lockett).
PC and JS want to compete forever, not go all in for one year (e.g. Cards in 2015). They’ve kept their word on the o line. They didn’t want to spend a ton on one guy to come in and fix it all, and they haven’t. They wanted veteran competition and leadership, which they got. They wanted to balance that with continuity and chemistry, which they got. I hoped they would only change 2/5ths of the o line at the most this off-season, and it sure looks like that’ll be the case.
I like the idea of a 2nd year of Glow-Britt-Ifedi on the interior. let’s see what they do with an offseason to work together.
How is Luke’s deal exemplary of ‘win forever’
I think the structure is different than the 7 million being reported but I’m probably wrong yo
I think this is a pretty trustworthy source:
@AaronWilson_NFL
Luke Joeckel: $8M, $4.25M signing bonus, salary $2.75M (gtd), $62,500 per active
9:17 AM – 12 Mar 2017
Ah. Yeah I’m not real good with contracts.
I can see where I was mistaken
How you doing today SeaMode?
Any new gems you find?
Hey, Kenny, NSG (not so good) sports-wise.
Barça comes off an historic comeback victory, reviving its chances for the triple title, then three days later stumbles back to earth and loses in Liga against a mediocre team…
Seattle misses out on an opportunity to bolster its position of greatest weakness. I get the points Rob gives in the article, and it very well could have been out of Seattle’s hands anyway, but just feel like he was the last good one left out there who could have helped all our young guys.
https://youtu.be/XuAbwADahGA
Maybe JS has a trade up his sleeve, otherwise we rest all our hopes on these guys developing. I guess it could be worse.
I’d root for Barça if they had a Yank on their squad. I like Umtiti though
I mostly follow MLS and Bundesliga because that comprises the backbone of our national team
As for gems, not much. Have been scraping through the Pro Day results, but man they are hard to come by.
I don’t know about the tape, but if I had to throw out a name with a cool personality it could be:
LB Andrew King, Army
“King is physically gifted (he benched 225 pounds 17 times and ran a 4.61 40-yard dash), his football IQ is off the charts as well is his leadership.”
Vertical jump: King 36.5 inches
Broad jump: King 9 feet, 10 inches.
New York Jets, Atlanta Falcons, Indianapolis Colts, Kansas City Chiefs and San Fransisco 49er’s were on hand to get a glance at four Army Black Knight seniors. He’s the only one considered maybe draftable.
Story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3IfEK6SmJE
Right? I love when you can skim for athletic profiles because our front office so basic haha
Reminder Salary Cap expected to go up by $22 million+
The market for free agents will just keep sky rocketing though. Seattle still won’t be able to compete, nor should they.
I’ve always thought that the first few mega stars at their position get the best money and high paying contracts. The rest get average to poor deals (and are maybe only worth that much). So their is hope that the Seahawks can make a few cheaper free agent signings. There is no way that Joeckle would consider his one year deal anything other than average pay for a prove it deal or transition to another contract next year.
Okung is far less than a ‘mega star’ yet is now somehow in line for 13 mil a year courtesy of the Chargers.
I’d say scarcity can play quite handily in guys getting the good money of high paying contracts. Not terribly unlike the QB position when guys like Mike Glennon and Osweiler get rewarded with 15-16 mil a year deals.
I appreciate the calming post as 12’s struggle with their Langxiety issues. I presume Lang would have been an upgrade but this outcome does leave more potential room to maneuver at frighteningly thin positions such as safety and linebacker. The team is going to need some experience in their backups in the back seven. Seattle pretty much didn’t tender anyone in those spots.
Langxiety! Bravo sir.
It is what it is and now we can watch all the kids grow/gel together. Remember, it’s possible every starter returns with a full year of experience together under their belts. That naturally improves the situation.
Last year, for example, Fant had no clue what he was doing. And he was lined up next to a guy who had never started in the NFL before at LG. And that inexperienced guy was next to a guy who had never played Center before, who played next to a guy who was a rookie… Seriously, who the heck had a clue last year? And then RT was a total disaster until about the last month of the season. Can Gilliam keep RT serviceable, as he did the last month? Or will he revert back to terrible and getting benched Gilliam?
It would have been nice to add Lang. But the sky isn’t falling.
I think Joeckel is LT, LG, and RT insurance. If Joeckel starts at tackle, he will get that extra million on his contract, as that contract is based on games on the active roster. If Joeckel doesn’t start, he won’t be active, imo, because they will keep Hunt and Rees active on game days since Rees backs up LT, LG, RG, and RT.
I’m looking at the line like this:
LT Fant
LG Glowinski
C Britt
RG Ifedi
RT Joeckel or Gilliam (with Rees being the guy who backs up everyone except Britt on game days)
I would have more faith in the line will grow together argument if:
Fant could use his hands to hold off defenders
Glowinski played okay
Britt is on his third position – what happened to coaching?
Ifedi can’t pick up stunting defensive linemen – coaching again?
Gilliam took a step back in his second year = was that because of injuries or???
In other words this offensive line is still very much a crap shoot with the only consistently solid play from Glow and Britt last year. We all hope they get better = but they didn’t achieve the usual playoff game peak that they have shown in other seasons. It looked more like a flat line in performance to me.
You thought Glow was ‘consistently solid’ last year Alaska? I thought he was consistently inconsistent and quite terrible at times. I liked Ifedi more than I liked Glow.
I just can’t get past the fact that they gave Gilliam the lowest qualifying RFA offer that doesn’t guarantee his contract. To me, that doesn’t show a lot of faith that the team has in Gilliam to remain the starter much less remain on the team. My hunch is the Joeckel was brought in on a one year prove it to be the starting RT, maybe alternatively the starting LG because it seems Carroll has made it clear George Fant is the LT moving forward.
There are always injuries on the line, so there’s no reason Gilliam shouldn’t be competing for a starting spot.
Man, now I REALLY want to trade back.
What is the boards opinion of Joey Hunt? From the little tape we have on him it appears he held his ground in pass pro when called on but as I recall the line gave up sacks when he was in there. He has little position flexibility that I can see. Should we be targeting him for replacement in our top 8? I cannot see using a roster spot on an undersized guy that can only backup our best lineman, especially when we are tying to develop linemen. What am I missing about this guy?
They like him. And he’ll be our starting center next year if they can’t resign Britt.
That is scary to think we would move on next year from Britt. I hope you are kidding? Certainly with an additional $22m in 2018 cap space we can find a few dollars for our O Line and don’t need to move on to Hunt.
Trying to groom Hunt for a couple years to see if an undersized center can play at this level sounds like a questionable disaster waiting to happen. I’d rather they wrap up Brit and I think they most likely see it the same way.
It was his first year, and he plays the guard/center position. I thought he did okay on his one?? start. Certainly as well as the rest of the starters played in their first games. I guess I see him as useful for replacing injured starters. He may not make the team, but we can still get 4 years out of him.
I think they like Joey Hunt.
I think we find some competition for him. He’s just too small to be starter. Is there anyone in the draft worth looking at in the late rounds? Haven’t heard much on Centers this year.
Why is he too small? As long as you are strong and can hold a block you will do okay. I keep hearing he is small, but he blocked okay when I was watching.
Because six feet, 195 pounds is considered small for a center. It’s why they were always looking to get better than Patrick Lewis, who was 6-1, and 311. Compare that to Britt, who is 6-6 and 330 with ideal bulk for the run blocking road grader that they want at center.
I see no reason why they’d want to regress in size after they finally found a center with ideal measurements.
Hunt supposedly weighed 295, not 195, and when you are looking at someone who is 6 feet tall as opposed to 6’6″ tall, you need to take into account that some of the extra 35 lbs iis just to support the height. Hunt weighs 4.01 lbs. per inch, while Britt at 330 weighs 4.125. Not much of a difference (and if Hunt gains just 10 lbs during the offseason he will be at 4.24 lbs. per inch). Those amounts are trivial to NFL linemen who I am sure can gain 10 lbs just by eating more one day than the next.
Plus, it is sometimes easier for a shorter man to get leverage, especially in the middle where there is little room for the defender to get around you. Don’t count Hunt out, I think he may be outstanding in the future.
Was bummed to see the news, but it is the correct path long term.
We need to resign our ONLY O lineman EVER, Justin Britt!
If we wait until after he makes the pro bowl (again/alternate2016) he will cost MORE!
As far as Kam goes, that tweet pisses me off…he is basically saying “Pay me, or I’ll be lazy!”
He was the ONLY player to holdout…in years! His attitude around his contract sucks…he should NOT complain since he never plays in all the games each season anyways!
His holdout cost Seattle a whole season! The ‘chemistry’ has never quite returmed yet either, has it? Where are the turnovers? Why so many big plays?
Britt resign first…Kam, well…he needs to grow up…yeah know, cause he has ONLY made almost $23 million dollars to play a kids game…
GO HAWKS!!!
Thanks for the help Rob in these dark times, hah jk! I understand the market is ridiculous right now and they tried their hardest for Lang, but it’s still very disappointing. At this point (assuming Bolles, Lamp, and Ramzyk all get taken before 26), all we have his hope that some of the worst linemen in the league last year improve.
It’s worth remembering that even the Lang’s and Bakhtiari’s needed time to develop in GB too.
Yup, Bakhtiari needed ages. Time and continuity are arguably as important as anything when it comes to the O-Line, especially in demanding systems like GB and Seattle.
Not a ton of good options at this point. Historically weak OL class here we come.
Assuming we don’t trade for OL at this point I believe it’s a near certainty we use a day 1 or 2 pick on OL which I was hoping to avoid.
People are gonna hate it, but ‘Bama’s Can Robinson is a legit option.
There’s really only 3 options from day 1 or 2 unless Bolles or Ramczyk are there.
Robinson, Moton, and Dawkins. At OT I should say.
Agree 100%
Agree Vol. the only OL the Hawks should even consider in the first 2 rounds are Bolles, Ramyzk, Lamp and Robinson.
For all the guys who hate Robinson and love Myles Garrett watch the Bama Tex A&M tape and Robinson certainly does not look over matched to my un-trained eye.
If the Hawks drafted Robinson whom would be my 4th choice from above he would be our best OT next year IMO.
I agree with you about Bolles, Lamp, and Ramczyk in the first 2 round; with Ramczyk strictly in the 2nd, because of his injury history. I can’t get on board with Seattle drafting Robinson though, especially with his low athletic profile. You mentioned Robinson’s tape against Garrett, and it made me think about when evaluating Justin Britt, Cable said that he based a part of his evaluation, on Britt, after watching Britt’s tape against Jadeveon Clowney. Yes, Britt finally found a home on the o-line, but it was during his 3rd season. I am not complaining too much about Britt the Center, but Britt the Guard, and Tackle was tough to watch. Since Britt was a second round pick though, and one whom Seattle seems to have reached for, it doesn’t bother me as much. However, with the draft being so top-heavy with defensive talent, I would very disappointed to watch Seattle draft Robinson with a 1st or 2nd round pick. If they went down that route, I think it would have to be for a prospect like the ones I mentioned earlier.
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/5/9/5702466/nfl-draft-2014-justin-britt-vs-jadeveon-clowney
I actually think Robinson goes before 26, but would take him if he was there. If they wanted to make a similar trade back to what they’ve done in the past it could be for Moton.
Not if TEF has anything to say about it. (see, hating it already… 😉 )
I do see why they would like him, though.
You are right on both accounts. While Cam Robinson is a massive human being, is he athletic enough to play tackle or will we have yet again drafted a guy who has to move to guard?
I don’t think he’s a LT, but a RT for sure.
I think he follows the path of Ifedi. He starts at guard and maybe moves outside to the RT position in a year or two.
I think i would rather cut one of our starting o linemen right now than spend a pick on offense in the early rounds of this draft because the dedense has some huge holes in it, RCB, DT (we have one other two are old and inneffective against the pass), LOLB and an edge rusher. This team is built on its defense and next year the defense has an opportunity to be historically great again if the draft falls the right. Plugging another rookie into the o line certainly doesn’t solve us giving up 36 to atlanta or getting blown out by green bay. I f we create a defense thats capable of creating turnovers again then we won’t be complaining about the offense constantly, we would have been complaining like this in 2013 if not for the 39 turnovers forced.
Rob… can Pastzor play? what spots?
Lelito?
Schwenke was the other…?
IF they grab one of these, who would you choose?
Volume12…do you know anything about these 3?
Would you choose one of them to sign? Anyone else scout these 3?
I remember Schwenke from college, but that’s it.
No idea about Pastzor or Lelito except for the fact that I’ve heard about them.
Not seen much of him but interesting that Cleveland have shown no interest in keeping him so far despite really focusing on their OL.
Here comes Brian Schwenke. At least that’s my guess anyways.
I would welcome that
Yes sir!
Another VMAC visit.
One of my favorite WR prospects. Lit up his pro day, big time production, from Atlanta.
Purdue WR De’Angelo Yancey.
Nice he has a ton of upside I think. Might be a late round or more likely udfa target.
I think so. Day 3-UDFA.
Good stuff. So our list so far is Tupou, Obi, Yancey?
As far as I know.
great news!!!
I was on record before wanting the current OL to continue and build on the tuition cost we paid for them last year. I hated the idea of moving Ifedi to RT and would rather keep at least 4 starters at their previous positions. If Joecklel beats Gillian for the RT job, fine. Other than that, keep the group together and decide once and for all if the Cable method works.
And with the deals we’re getting at the other spots, I wouldn’t mind the expensive depth for a year if it confirms latent talent in Gilliam
So who is still out there Breno Andre Smith Schwenke Pastzor?
Could trade for Dennis Kelly or Ty Nsceke.
Will Pericak is the next man up. He did not look too bad in training camp.
Just noticed another OL on futures contract: C Ross Burbank.
Missed that addition I guess.
I read somewhere Robert Myers is working out at RT this off season since the OG position is loaded. I think he is a long shot to make the roster, however.
Dennis Kelly is 27 5th rounder from 2012 last year of contract 880,000 against the cap Titans tackles are good so this guy doesn’t see the field. Trade back from 26 to 33 and pick up a early 4th and 6th rounder. Offer the Titans 2 6th rounders or perhaps the 4TH. Give this guy a shot at RT if he starts and we like him going forward we could resign if not let him go and maybe pick up a comp pick.
It is as expected,but I am disappointed.
They would spend money to extend Cam Britt and Clark.
Kam.
I am really hoping things start to go in a different direction and we at least re-sign a couple of your core guys like Kam, Britt, Jimmy. I am not asking for a big splash just something that improves the team longer term.
This has been the worst free agency I can remember as a Hawks fan. One signing and it is arguably the worst deal that has been done on the FA market. $7 mil guaranteed for a 2nd overall pick who could not even keep his starting job on one of the worst OL in the league and is coming off an ACL / MCL tear.Wow
Worst part is with the free agent market i don’t even know whom JS could have signed.
I liked Lawrence Guy a lot, NE got him for about $5 million a year.
I was really hoping Seattle would make an effort to go after Guy, as well.
Listening to PC he said ideally they’d like to add a starter in FA, see what the draft brings, but the main thing that caught my attention is when he said that really what they want is someone to push and challenge the guys they got.
Seattle signing Joeckel to the deal they gave him should make the rest of the line sit up and take notice.
PC/JS love these reclamation projects.
Yeah it’s just another element in the crucible now!
Yup pretty rotten free agency so far.
What about Kris Dielman? That was worse.
The OL I wanted was Jordan Mills. He re-signed with the Bills at 2 yrs and $4m. That sounds like the perfect type of bargain deal the Seahawks need to bring in good competition, and they were rumored to have had interest in Mills as a draft prospect. In a market that was crushing our dreams of getting any kind of decent OL, why not pay (a little more than) $2m APY for a guy who has respectable starting experience?
If we can get Lamp at 26 is their any way he can play OT? I know measurements are not up to typical standards, but would he be able to man right tackle? Assuming Fantasy stays at left.
An accurate analysis of the Lang situation.
Ideally, that would have landed him but I’m sure the current market economics had a lot to do with the outcome and it’s clear the Seahawks aren’t going to overpay for any position.
The other factor that people tend to forget is as bad (atrocious) as the O-line was in some games, there were also games and a stretch of games where they were solid/good. While it’s tempting to view the O-line in strictly good/bad terms, I think it’s a bit more nuanced than that–the line has potential and flashed it at times and that’s a positive.
Obviously, the line is in need of more talent and more competition in order to raise its level and consistency but let’s not forget that the line should be better in year 2 just as a function of experience.
Just a quick note: if everybody on the market it getting “overpaid,” they’re not getting overpaid. That’s the market.
Depends on your definition. The “market” may be dominated by cap-stupid teams who by another definition “overpay”and therefore sit on the sidelines every year at the end of regular season, while cap-smart teams who refuse to do so are in the playoffs.
This isn’t the stock market. Efficient market theory doesn’t apply here.
Well… It is the market. It’s a sellers market on the OL. Supply don’t meet demand
Think they need to overpay Joeckel to get him on a 1 yr deal. if this was a multi year would have come for much less averae per year. they will sign another vet before camp in the range of 1-2m
I will play the role of wet blanket…this FO is sputtering. IF…and it’s a big IF, we draft Cam Robinson at 26, I will have lost all faith in this FO. They have flailed and failed since the 2012 draft outside of a couple of hits.
And, when do we start asking the hard questions about Tom Cable? He’s incompetent as evident by on field performance.
Something has got to change. This window is shutting and is in danger of being slammed shut once the likes of Sherman, Chancellor and Earl take a step back (hell, could be this year). Russell is not good enough to carry this team like a Tom Brady can. And add into the fact he has the worst OL in league (history maybe), this FO has got to figure it out without blowing a major opportunity.
I’m still thankful for SB48, but this is starting to feel like we blew a magnificent opportunity at a dynasty.
Highly doubtful they draft Cam Robinson IMO. Don’t even think he’ll go in R1.
It’ll be fine.
Did you hack my account? Did you steal these thoughts from my brain?
If the offensive line doesn’t show any improvement this year I think Cable has to go. What will it take for this FO to figure out Cable is part of the problem, and not the solution.
Preaching to the choir here.
Cable is too much of a scapegoat.
..which implies that there is some, proper amount of scapegoat involved, I take it 🙂
The challenge I find with Cable is that he is absolutely superb at sensible-sounding happy talk, leavened with just enough reality after awful games that you are relieved he is not just flat-out nuts, but in the end, at least recently, his O-lines have been really quite bad overall. Not horrible every game, each play, of course. But overall just not good. And this is not just a function of the front office handing him lemons and demanding lemonade. As I understand it, he has very significant input into our draft choices, which have included not only projects, but also players selected in Rounds 1-3. I don’t blame him for Fant, Sowell, Webb–those guys were cheap and shots in the dark. But why did it take him years to move Britt to center?. Why was Ifedi really quite bad last year, even for a rookie? Why was Carpenter never very good for us? Why has Gilliam not lived up to his athletic potential? At some point, coaching matters, and reasonable inferences can therefore be drawn about coaching from player performance.
C O N T I N U I T Y
However profound, that word doesn’t answer the questions I propounded. Continuity explains why Carpenter wasn’t very good? Why it took three years for Britt to find his position, while center was being manned by stop-gaps? Why Gilliam, despite his athleticism, routinely gets beat like a red-headed stepchild on the outside? Why other O-Lines in the NFL with a combination of FAs, low round and high round picks seem to cohere faster than ours? I think not.
Experience
This is true. But he is the one who is in charge of the OL.
PC/ JS have to be equally responsible for the picks and continuing with the same system.
There are several issues at play here. Seattle’s draft position over the years, the talent level of the players they’ve brought in, the need to pay defensive stars and a QB over the starting OL. Last year Wilson’s two freak injuries (that had nothing to do with the OL) hurt as much as anything. And the RB injuries. When people just point a finger at Cable it misses so many other things.
The reality is that we have won the SB with the most expensive OL in the NFL and with 6 pro ballers on rookie salary (Wilson, Earl, Sherman, Wags, K.J.and Kam).
Everybody said the Seahawks will not be able to retain all that talent but they did. It came at a cost and that was the OL.
They have taken the hard call and gambled that Cable will be able to convert a young group of TEF warriors into a functioning OL. It has not been pretty but neither is the play of 9 out every 10 drafted rookie offensive linemen.
Now they have the chance to bring the whole group back. For the first time Cable can work a unit that does not need to spend all of training camp to learn the basic technique needed to play in his system.
If we see that unit playing much better this year as I believe we will, Cable will be a genius. If they fail again it would be time to take a hard look at the whole strategy, Cable included.
This.
Ok. I am dubious about Cable, but let’s re-visit after this season. Because barring multiple serious injuries, I don’t know that there will be any excuses left if we lay another egg on the line like we did this last season.
I have always felt like Marshawn masked how bad the Oline always was. Ever since he came to Seattle I said he was the best RB I have ever watched play. The amount of times I seen him turn a 2 or 3 yards loss into a no gainer or a yard or two was incredible. Even in those years with back to back Super Bowls the Oline was still suspect in pass protection most of the time. Especially Sweezy and whoever was on the right side. Even Okung fell off immensely.
Eran: Totally agree. These guys are young. Most of them were playing a new position. In the case of Fant It was a Brand New position. Never played OL before. Ifedi was not only playing a new position he had to learn a new playbook. Before they stated putting their playbook on the computer they were the Size of a phone book. You almost need to be genius to learn these playbooks. So if they can stay healthy I look for the OL to be much improved.
Pretty much.
I agree this year is a turning point. Our depth has been poached and we need to reload. The last couple drafts have not yielded enough starters.
To blame Cable alone is an exaggeration. He is not the only one deciding we can build an offensive line out of rookie basketball players. Pete Carroll is in charge and if the plan is foolish then it is on him. I don’t hear Schneider complaining about it, either. They are all in it together. No other OL coach but Cable would probably attempt it. Look how far he took Sweezy, Britt and even Fant. It is unbelievable that Fant even made it past the practice squad with the experience he came with.
Now even “history maybe”! This line wasn’t even the worst in the league last year, except if you believe PFF, which lots of Seahawks fans do, even though we don’t believe them on anything else. This line was even worse two years ago, so we know it’s not “history maybe”!
The level of hysteria is getting ridiculous. There is no patience here. Sigh.
What NFL fan base is patient?
An entire NFL roster can be turned over in 3 years. the NFL is not a patient league. Not like baseball where you draft prospects and take 5 years to develop them. It does not take 6 years to fix an OL!
I disagree about the line being worse two years ago. The 2015 line gelled in the 2nd half of the season and gave Wilson the breathing room to go on his remarkable 2nd half run.
The 2016 line not so much. Fant was not better than 2015 Okung. Ifedi was considerably worse than Sweezy. 2016 Gilliam was worse than 2015 Gilliam. Both were rookies last season so that’s to be expected.
But no way was the 2015 line worse.
The entire line was a turnstile, do you remember giving up 24 sacks in 6 games? That line was considerably worse in pass pro, they were better at run blocking though.
Yeah in the first 6 games, but the point is there was gradual improvement of the 2015 line that played more as a cohesive emergent unit by the end of the season.
2016 line, not so much. Gilliam regressed, Ifedi played considerably worse as the year went on. Glow was sporadically terrible. Fant played like a rookie but still played better than Sowell, who couldn’t cut it. Unlike seasons past, the team got worse at the year went on. Wilson never could find his groove.
So now you guys are arguing about which year was the worst offensive line performance??? That is not a good sign.
I think it’s important to recognizing that the line has been getting worse, not better. To say the line was worse two years ago just isn’t accurate.
I agree the 2015 was not worse. Unfortunately, however, our OL has been at or near disaster quality since Walt retired. Even during our SB win Unger was getting his butt handed to him all day by Pork Chop (or whatever that monster nose tackle was called). If we would have been fielding an average QB and RB there is no way we would have been in the top of the rushing stats at any point during the past 5 years.
However, I disagree that Ifedi was worse that Sweezy. Sweezy was a basket case when he started, and routinely missed blocks by lowering his head and blew plays by jumping off sides or hitting after the whistle. Hell, during Sweezy’s last year here I wanted to bench him in favor of Glow.
Great news guys! The only proven competent OL we could reasonably add to the worst line in the league isn’t signing with us! But it’ll be okay, because even though he’d be the clear best player on our OL the second he signed he’s still not really any good!
Oh. Man, I just heard that. Now I mad myself depressed.
Great article!
Yeah I am not going to lie I am really bummed out also. I guess this team really doesn’t care about winning games anymore. Just about being “different”.
Come on now.
Come on man
Come on dude.
Come on pal.
Come on Eileen.
(is this how it works?)
+ infinity lol. Well done.
That’s not what’s been said at all.
This is the problem with FA. The rampant panic of fans when big name players they know virtually nothing about sign for other teams.
I agree it is not time to over react.
People are just really tired of 6 years of bad OL play. They we sign a guy who is coming off an ACL / MCL and may well be the worst OT on the market to a $7mil guaranteed. Fans have a right to be a little frustrated with how the OL has been handled and are tired of excuses they just want an average OL product and some consistency and there is absolutely zero reason to expect that in 2017-2018 based on what has been done so far this off season.
Was Lang a saviour absolutely not. He is a guy however whom has shown over a 6 year career that he can play in this league at a league average or above level and that is something not one other OL man currently on our roster can say.
“Someone else got something so that means something was taken from me”
“Great article!”
I hope I’m misreading your intentions with the above statement, but sarcastically lashing out at Rob, who continues to provide very high quality, free Seahawks content, because you’re upset the Seahawks didn’t sign a FA is totally uncalled for and reflects poorly on you.
+1
Geeze when it rains it pours.
I know that our OL is often in trouble, but we are about one more negative person from concluding “This is the worst offensive line in the history of all football, including high school and even peewee.”
With all due respect, get a grip! Like JS said, if you don’t take chances on players (in this case, Joeckel) you’re never going to get any better. There are sometimes when you have to trust the coaching, like we’ve done with Sweezy, Giacomini, and Fant. Those 3 have had more positivity regarded to their names than negativity.
Sebastian Vollmer …. anybody anybody??
Retiring apparently.
To take my mind off our OL and free agency so far decided to do a Post Combine 2 Round Mock
*Cle Trades #11 pick to NE for Garapollo
*Bears Trade 2nd, 4th and 5th for the Hawks 1st and 2nd
Round One:
1. Cleveland Browns – Myles Garrett (DE / Tex A&M)
2. San Francisco 49ers – Malik Hooker (S – Ohio St.) They want to run a Sea type D and to do so you need an elite FS. Hooker is the best to come out in Years.
3. Chicago Bears – Solomon Thomas (DL / Stanford)
4. Jacksonville Jaguars –Garrett Bolles (OT / Utah) They have completely rebuilt the defense and now need to fix the OL. Bolles is the best OT prospect in the draft.
5. Tennessee Titans (from Los Angeles Rams) Jamal Adams (S / LSU)
6. New York Jets – Deshawn Watson (QB / Clemson)- NO QB coming out of CFB is more prepared for the bright lights of Broadway.
7. Los Angeles Chargers -Johnathan Allen (DL / Alabama) Put Allen with Bosa and Ingram giving the Chargers a nice DL group.
8. Carolina Panthers – Leonard Fournette (RB / LSU)
9. Cincinnati Bengals – Rubeun Foster (LB / Alabama)
10. Buffalo Bills – Marshon Latimore (CB / Ohio St)
11. New Orleans Saints – Hassan Reddick (LB / Temple)
12. New England Patriots (Trade from Cleveland) – OJ Howard (TE / Alabama)
13. Arizona Cardinals –Deshon Kizer (QB –ND)
14. Philadelphia Eagles – Kevin King (CB / Wash) The ideal Hawks CB but he is too talented to make it until 26 particularly with the Jones injury/
15. Indianapolis Colts – Taco Charlton (DE- Mich)
16. Baltimore Ravens – Cam Robinson (OT / Alabama)
17. Washington Redskins – Jared Davis (LB / Fla)
18. Tennessee Titans – John Ross (WR / Wash)
19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Dalvin Cook (RB / FSU)
20. Denver Broncos – Ryan Ramyzk (OT – Wisc) Broncos need an OT as bad as us and take the last 1st round OT talent.
21. Detroit Lions – Tak Mckinley (Edge – UCLA)
22. Miami Dolphins – Mike Williams (WR / Clemson)
23. New York Giants – David Njoku (TE –Mia)
24. Oakland Raiders – Gareon Conley (CB-Ohio St)
25. Houston Texans – Forrest Lamp (OL / W.Ken)
26. Chicago Bears (Trade from Seattle) – Pat Mahomes (QB Tex Tech)
27. Kansas City Chiefs- Corey Davis (WR –W.Mich)
28. Dallas Cowboys – Adoree Jackson (CB / USC)- Cowboys loved freak athletes and need DB help. He makes too much sense here.
29. Green Bay Packers – TJ Watt (LB- Wisc)
30. Pittsburgh Steelers – Marlon Humphries (CB / Alabama)
31. Atlanta Falcons – Buddah Baker (S –Wash) Dan Quinn gets his version of ET to team with Keanu Neal
32. New Orleans (Trade from NE)- Zay Jones (WR / E Car) The Saints get their replacement for Brandon Cooks.
Round Two:
33. Cleveland Browns- Jabril Peppers (S -Mich)
34. San Francisco 49ers -Christian Mccaffery (RB / Stanford) Ideal RB in Kyle Shanahan system
35. Jacksonville Jaguars – Alvin Kamara (RB / Tenn) Jags need to improve that run game.
36. Seattle Seahawks (Trade from Bears)- Obi Melinowfu (S-UConn) Hawks get an absolute freak DB. Now just figure out how they want to use him.
37. Los Angeles Rams – Dan Feeney (G / Ind)
38. Los Angeles Chargers – Evan Engram (TE / Miss)Rivers get a new security blanket to replace Gates.
39. New York Jets – Quincy Wilson (CB / Florida)
40. Carolina Panthers – Dorian Johnson (G / Pitt)
41. Cincinnati Bengals – Malik Mcdowell (DL / Mich St.)
42. New Orleans Saints – Justin Evans (S / Tex A&M) NO building something special on D with Reddick in first and Evans in 2nd.
43. Philadelphia Eagles – Caleb Brantley (DT / Fla)
44. Buffalo Bills – Fabian Moreau (CB / UCLA)
45. Arizona Cardinals – Dion Dawkins (OL / Temple )
46. Indianapolis Colts – Taylor Moton (OL / W Mich)
47. Baltimore Ravens – Zach Cunningham (LB / Vand)
48. Minnesota Vikings –Antoio Garcia (OL / Troy)
49. Washington Redskins – Chris Godwin (WR / Penn St) They need a replacement for Garcon and DJax.
50. Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Tez Tabor (CB / Fla)
51. Denver Broncos – Curtis Samuel (RB/ Ohio St.)
52. Cleveland Browns (from Tennessee)- Montavius Adams (DT – Auburn)
53. Detroit Lions – Joe Mixon (RB / Ok)
54. Miami Dolphins – Demarcus Walker (DE / FSU)
55. New York Giants-Roderick Johnson (OT FSU)
56. Oakland Raiders – Raekwon Mcmillan (LB / Ohio St) Raiders need an LB.
57. Houston Texans – Tim Williams (Edge / Alabama)
58. Seattle Seahawks- Tyus Bowser (LB / Hous) Hawks get another freak athlete who can develop into a 3 down LB with a ton of pass rush upside.
59. Kansas City Chiefs- Charles Harrris (DE –Missouri)
60. Dallas Cowboys – Jordan Willis (DE / Kan St.)
61. Green Bay Packers –Chidobe Azuwie (CB / Col)
62. Pittsburgh Steelers – Carl Lawson (Edge / Auburn)
63. Atlanta Falcons-Tarrell Basham (Edge /Ohio) Seems like an ideal LEO candidate
64. Indy (Trade from NE) -Ryan Andreson (LB / Alabama)
Seattle 7 Round Mock (Trade back in 1st to get a 4th and 5th, )
Rd#2 Obi Melinowfu (S- UConn)
Rd#2 Tyus Bowser (LB / Hous)
Rd#3 Akhello Witherspoon (CB / Col)- Not a bad consolation prize for missing out on King. Needs to work on tackling but great length, speed and skill level to develop into an elite CB early opposite Sherm.
Rd#3 Comp Issac Asiata (G / Utah)- Nasty and tough hould compete for a Guard spot year #1 and can back up Britt at Center.
Rd#3 Karem Hunt (RB/ Toledo) Love his wide base running style and great balance. Gets tough yards and never fumbles. Would be a nice compliment to Rawls and Prosise.
Rd#4 George Kittle (TE / Iowa)Great blocking TE with good hands whom tested much better than expected. Should team well with Graham and Vannett
Rd#5 Shaomi Luani (S /Wash St) Rob has discussed him in detail already.
Rd#6 Aviante Collins (OL / TCU) Incredibly athletic but slightly undersized OT prospect. I think he will be a TEF freak after his pro day. Has injury issues but his tape is not bad an Hawks should have lots of inside info on him with Hunt and Boykins. Seems like an idel guy to draft and develop as a swing guy.
Rd#7 Robert Davis (WR / Georgia St.)Another great athlete who can be developed and contribute early on special teams.
Rd#7 Rob Henderson (DT / Alabama St) Late round big bodied run stuffer.
Thanks for doing this, Trevor. Like the Hawks picks except for Hunt.
I cannot approve of this mock draft though since the Pats get #12 from the Browns. 😉
I also think Ross will end up going higher. Quite possibly to the Panthers at #8.
I know it would really suck for them to get Howard too!
You think Seattle is gonna pass on Humphrey? I also think he might go 14 instead of King possibly, but I like it.
I prefer King to Humphrey but you may be right and he could go in that spot.
I have never got my hopes up on Humphrey because I don’t think he’ll be there.
To me Humphrey is now the number 1 corner in the class, after Jones had his tragic injury.
I like him as an athlete but not his deep coverage. He looks lost when the ball is in the air sometimes.
He is always playing sooo far off. His press is garbage. Athletic clay
Does that trade scenario work out for the Hawks? Seems like Chicago is getting the better deal.
Hawks get the Bears early picks in Rds 2, 4,5 for the Hawks trading back in Rd #1. The might be able to get a 3rd for a trade back but I doubt it.
Ok that makes more sense. Your first post gave the bears our 1st and 2nd.
Very well done Trevor… The only glaring craziness would be NO trading Cooks for the #32 only to draft another WR… they want D!
#StupidTrade #NOisLOST #7and9yearAfterYear
I gave them Reddick and Justin Evans with their 2 other picks Brees has to have someone to pass the ball too. They did not trade Cooks because they did not want a WR they did it because Cooks wanted out.
Adding Oneymayta and Rankins last year was huge for them on the DL. They need some speed now in the back end.
My mistake in the Mock was forgetting to add Trubisky 🙂
Too much talent lol.
I don’t like the trade. We get Bears 2nd, 4th, and 5th and we give up our 1st and 2nd? That’s terrible. Did you make a mistake?
Swap 2nd’s Greg…I believe…so we move WAY up in R2.
That mock would be pretty awesome. I like it. I didn’t read the mock first I just saw that we gave up our 1st and 2nd an capped my pants. You meant just our 1st.
In his mock we kept our native 2nd. He wrote 1st and 2nd when he means just or 1st I believe
Thats right Greg sorry I wrote the details wrong. Basically we trade back to pick up a 4th and 5th.
That’s ok, I figured it out. That mock would be awesome and realistic at the same time.
I think that’s pretty good. Worried that Aviante Collins is too thin for Seattle. Very quick athlete but could be used maybe as a project/swing player. I like Kittle quite a bit.
Jordan SchultzVerified account @Schultz_Report 2h2 hours ago
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Source: Part of TJ Lang signing with #Lions came down to his wife “not passing up the opportunity to go home.” DET matched #Seahawks offer
Plus he and his wife will be able to go on vacation in January.
does not need to stress much..lol
ok, that was good. 10 SDB points for you today, nichansen01.
Seahawks season lasted 7 days longer than the Lions did last year. That’d have to be a quick vacation.
…after a playoff WIN… Detroit has been a disaster for decades.
They could never figure out how to use Barry Sanders to WIN!
#DumpsterFire #BadChoiceForHim #GoodCoiceForUs
After Rob pointed out his injuries, and being 30…forget Lang!
…and what ind of ‘tough guy’…let’s his wife “make the decision”, costing your life’s work of playing football be derailed from winning by going ‘home’ to a broken team…
#Yeah HAWKS GO
Happy wife…. happy life.
Nich: Lang and his wife start their vacation in January. Funny!
SP: So are you telling me that the Hawks offered Lang 9.5 mil per year?
What do you guys think of Garry Gilliam? He was awful the 1st half of the season and got himself benched for Sowell. But by the end of the season and through the playoffs, he actually looked like a good RT. I’m wondering if any of you saw major improvement.
I actually thought he was our 2nd best OL after Britt over the last 4 games and playoffs. He always shows spurts of being an effective OT but has shown no consistency. He is healthy this off season so I really hope he can make the jump and take it to the next level.
Trevor: If Gilliam was our 2nd best OL down the home stretch this team is in trouble.
When your play in the beginning of the season sets the bar so low, that you got benched in favor of Bradley Sowell it’s hard not to show some kind of improvement.
Not a big fan of him for Seattle. He might fit better for a pass centric team. I think they’ve been intrigued by his athleticism,and seems like a smart guy, but I don’t think he’s a tough guy, and his toughness was certainly questioned publicly by his position coach, and he was benched for a spell by in favor of Bradley Sowell. Not sure if football is the most important thing for him. Personally, I don’t think he was ever a good fit for RT when this team has always looked for road grader types to help out the run game under PC. I think they wanted to see what he could become, and having tendered him a bottom level contract for 2017 that has no guarantees, I doubt that they see much of a future for him. My hunch is that Luke Joeckel, who’s run blocking has been the decent thing with his game, has been brought in to be the new RT. But know knows, maybe Joeckel’s signing will light a fire under him, but if that happens, my question would be, where was that fire in the first place?
I might even go so far as to question whether this is in fact a Penn St thing with linemen on both sides of the ball. Gilliam, John Urschel, Jordan Hill, Jared Odrick, Devon Still? Do any of these guys have a great love for the game? Are any of these guys gritty, or junk yard?
IMO, if PC/JS grabs a Bama boy every year in the draft, I’d be fine with that. Even if they are a bit limited athletically. Give me Jarran Reed spitting in an offensive linemen’s face and punching him in the junk in a scrum. At least he’s sending a message, “look, if you’re going to play against me for four quarters of grown man football, it’s not going to be fun for you. I will not make it fun. I will hurt you, annoy you, and get under your skin.”
With Fant and Gilliam having another off season to work and grow, who knows…?
Fant is at the facility in Seattle training hard all off season. Heard it on the radio…now AZ has NO Calais Campbell…that helps…
I believe in Fant.
Gilliam not so much. he has shown flashes of competence though…
It feels like the team might very well echo your thoughts. Almost all indications are that they are set moving forward with Fant at LT, Gilliam doesn’t feel like that at RT so much. They could cut him next week, and lose nothing off the cap.
Gilliam is a backup swing Tackle.
He did that last year too, it makes me wonder if he just needed to pick a position and stick to it rather than flipping back and forth between left and right tackle. If he steps up, adds bulk and manages to make himself servicable against the run (if i remember correctly he was still decent in pass pro) the line will get a lot stronger. I’d expect Ifedi to get quite a bit better because he is playing between two solid linemen. We’d finally have a side of the line to run towards
Maybe it´s just me, but I´m not as down about the O-line situation. Our guys are young, and will now have a full off-season to get to know eachother even better, and Fant for example will actually train to be a LT. I´m sure they will be better next season.
When it comes to the draft, I can´t see any reason to draft an O-line before round 3. The best ones will be gone by 26, and with the defense we have today getting older, we need to reload it. And this is THE draft to do it.
Personally hope for 3 DB´s ( 2 Corners and a Safety), 2 LB´s, 1 O-line and 1 Reciever, either TE or WR.
Just me and my thoughts though, what do you guys think?
Agreed on the OL.
They’ll get there.
I like the idea of 2 CB’s and a S. Not hurt any OLman, but someone’s like Asiata would be nice; a LB (or two), and my new favorite idea — one of those stud TE’s.
Personally, I’m not all in on Vannett, he has to show something, and we need something in the pipeline for Jimmy insurance/leverage.
I think they trade back at least twice picking up two additional picks. We take one OL in R3 and another one later.
It all depends on how the draft goes but I would hate lose out on a quality player by trading back.
My order of importance for the draft (roughly)
1st – S
2nd – LB
3rd – CB
3rd – LB/DE
3rd – TE
6th – DT/DE
7th – LB (ST)
I’m down about it and still worried about it. It is what it is. Pete and others have said they want the oline to grow together so that seems to be the direction they are taking the team. I for one did not want Lang at all. 30 years old and I didn’t think he was anything special. Joeckel I am ok with them signing just to have another body in there to push Fant and Gilliam. I am sure someone will be added on the interior to push Glow although I thought he played better on the right side the season before in his one start.
I really wonder if they will stick to keeping Ifedi at guard though. In the past hasn’t Cable and Pete said something in training camp to the effect of putting the five best lineman out there? Be nice to draft Asiata with our first pick in the 3rd. Have a line of Fant(Joeckel?)/Asiata/Britt/Glow/Ifedi.
I think that’s about right. Personally I can’t see any RB’s to get too excited about. Kind of like Brian Hill (WY) kinda like Carson (OKST.) DO think the team could use some receiver help but doubt they look at TE’s and I frankly don’t know enough about any WR’s this year (I’m lazy and it’s a down year) though the team could definitely use someone. Next year it’s” Graham, Baldwin, and then for me it really gets off the tracks counting on Prich staying healthy and developing, Lockett staying healthy and trusting his leg, Tanner Mcevoy….big maybe….and hopefuly Kearse not redoing what he did(n’t) do last year. That’s not a really scare corps. If PRich and Lockett come out swinging and stay healthy it looks great, if not…..ugh…
Blessong in disguise probably…extend Kam, and roll some cap into next tesr for Frank Clark extension
Salary cap expected to go up by $22 million the following year. Money available for Frank Clark.
Hey, i’m trying to look on the bright side. I just don’t like watching my team continually having free agents fly in for a pillow fight and then sign elsewhere…
🙂
Absolutely.
I want to trade back:
2. TJ Watt, Wisconsin, SAM, Pass Rusher
2. Kevin King, Washington, Right Corner
3. Fabian Moreau, UCLA, Safety (alternates here, Shaquille Griffen, Shalom Luani)
3. Alex Anzalone, Florida, Linebacker (alternates, Vince Biegel, Anthony Walker Jr.)
3. Nico Siragusa, Guard, San Diego State (or Isaac Asiata)
3. Reyshawn Jenkins, Miami, Strong Safety Backup, (Josh Jones, John Johnson also options)
6. Stevie T, USC, Run Stuffing DT
7. Darrell Daniels, UW, Luke Willson Replacement
UDFA priority targets:
DeAngelo Yancy, WR, Purdue
Zach Banner, OT, USC
Rob Henderson, DT, Alabama State
Javancy Jones, LB, Jackson State
Josh Tupou, DT, Colorado
Glen Antoine, DT, Idaho
Fabian Moreau, I know he played corner in college but he intrigues me as a potential free safety convert.
Kevin King is going in the top 40 IMO
Top 20 IMO. Good tape and off the charts length and testing #s.
shhhhhh don’t say that
No roooom
I have been lovin the tape on Roderick Henderson. Yes, he plays in a weak conference but he is still dominating 320lb O Linemen. I looks like the classic refrigerator on wheels at 6-1, 350.
Love Glen Antoine also. Tupou more of just a big guy.
Like this draft if you could get that group of players I think fans would be ecstatic. Nice blend of athleticism and toughness.
Nich. I think Watt/ king have a chance to go in the first round. Everyone is jumping on the Watt bandwagon. He might even go before 26. As for King unfortunately the injury to Sidney Jones will benefit King. Feel bad for Jones. I would like to know who had the stupid idea to have a pro day 10 days after the combine. That doesn’t make sense me.
Gobblessyersoul Mr. Staton! Youve done gone and talked me down from that ledge. Truly, your cool and even-handed appraisal of each and every bump in the road to keeping our Hawks up where they belong is balm to the heavy heart. Reason can prevail over emotions even in trying times!
Good to be reminded that a week or ten days ago it was all about the combine to me, and I was hanging in the *add a bit of competition to the stew and let it simmer* camp. Thank you. Always.
Go Hawks
Anyone know how the tight end class looks next year?
Stupidly gifted athletically.
Anyone think Deandre Elliot could win that right corner job?
Seems to be between Lane Desir and Elliot right now… plus a rookie coming in.
Right now they have Desir listed as a FS, but that can all change. They might be legitimately into letting Elliot compete for it, but my guess is they won’t bank seriously on it.
Honestly guys, do we really want to extend Kam right now? Tie up more money in aging players on the defense? Kam hasn’t looked like himself in a long time, he just had MORE surgery, and it looks like he’s starting to get moody again about money. I’d say it’s more likely than not that he thinks about holding out again.
Lets get Obi Melifonwu and Kevin King to push the talkative LOB members! Maybe Richard will stop talking to the media and actually get some interceptions if King is waiting in the wings like he was for Trufant. Maybe Kam actually hits people this year if Obi is chomping at the bit to get on the field. The defense has gotten paid and regressed HARD, and like Marvin Hagler once said – it’s hard to get up and train when you’ve got silk sheets. Maybe we make Kam prove that he can still be Bam Bam this year. We’ve got the franchise tag.
I’d extend Jimmy and Britt (offensive continuity – yay!), make Kam play out with the threat of the tag. There’s a reason why the most successful team in the league – the Patriots – have routinely refused to pay defensive contracts, because the defense needs to be hungry and instinctual, and I’m not sure that Sherman and Kam are that anymore. I don’t think that Pete and John made mistakes when they paid a ton of money to their core defensive guys, but they can’t give them more money now. Time to play some hardball with the “defensive leaders” and build around Russell.
I saw that tweet from Kam and groaned.
I wish Social media would just go away to be honest because all these tweets are so cryptic and allow guys to be misunderstood. Really hope it was not meant the way it came across. Want Kam to get signed and retire a Hawk.
Personally, I thought Kam was exceptional in 2016. And with his obvious leadership qualities (he is the heart and soul) I’d be looking to reward him ASAP.
+1
That is a deal that has to get done ASAP IMO.
If you take a guy like Obi in Rd #1 whom better for him to learn from than Kam.
Kam is ideal to learn from…and he is UNDER CONTRACT…$7+mill!
I love how Kam plays and what he has meant for Seattle…
Yet, It is a joke to mistake leadership with entitlement…
Kam feels entitled to make more $…
Since 2013, after playing every game except 1 in his career, he has gone 14 games in 2014, 11 games in 2015 (w/ a 2 game holdout), and then 12 games in 2016…
I know he is a leader…heart and whatever…but your “heart” doesn’t HOLD OUT and cost you games, ruining a season…
His injury history should be a red flag…I feel to much patriotism for Kam here without looking at he facts… I say this in relation to ‘extending him and paying $10-12 million for an aging (28) and yearly injured SS…
We must be careful here…so many warned to be safe and cautious with our cap $$$ with Lang, etc… so why not with Kam?
Who just tweeted how much of a money punk he is…$30 million after next year playing a game with a BALL…and he wants to threaten the Seahawks… If PC hadn’t drafted him, I bet Kam would be a NOBODY in the league…this LOB needs to respect and give credit to their REAL founder…Pete Carroll… (That means you ‘complaining SHERM!’)
Brutal
Totally agree.
Kam is a GREAT player, but I totally agree! If PC didn’t draft Kam, he wouldn’t be more than a special teams player! While PC looked at what he could do, everybody else would have looked at what he couldn’t do! Loyalty really should go both ways. Great point!
+2. Make that exceptional since starting & the heart/soul
He played well, and led well, but he was not the hulking monster that roamed the middle of the field who crushed WRs and TEs, punishing them for daring to go over the middle.
That Kam was worth every penny we paid him, but that Kam has been MIA for at least two years.
He’s still incredibly good at what he does. He was a unique player with the hits. Nobody else like him. If he has lost some of that he’s still better than most others in the league. Look at the role he played in the win @ New England.
People will notice when he’s not there.
+1
He’s not going to hold out in a contract year.
Agree and he needs to play hard and well to gain leverage if he is not re-signed before then. It would be a huge distraction however that we don’t need. Wish he had gotten done before the Mia Safety signed however.
I legitimately cringe when I here people say we should trade Kam and that he’s played baduring lately. He’s the true leader on our defense and helps get everyone in position. Yes he may let some plays go over his head sometimes in coverage but people seem to forget all the great things he does for the LOB, it wouldn’t be the same without him. I don’t see us getting rid of Kam, Earl or Sherm for as long as they can they built the LOB and are showing no signs of slowing up. Like Earl says they best is yet to come.
I totally agree with you, except one point I’m thinking about more after his post today: He is the leader, but what happens when your leader doesn’t give everything he has for the team? I think when this situation of unhappiness remains, the hawks should consider sending a message to the team that threatning the hand that feeds you can become costly. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE kam and want him to retire a hawk, but if he poisens the locker room you should evaluate it from a neutral role and act for the team (because sherm would probably the next to “blackmail” them, and so on)
Look at benett, he did everything right (unhappy, but showed up, played as good as he could) and got paid good for his loyalty BUT he didn’t wanted to be the best payed DL, he wanted more and to serve the team
DT Roy Miller just released by the Jags. A powerful big bodied DT that PC seems to enjoy. Could be someone to monitor down the road.
It seems they hired their new defensive line coach with interior pressure in mind, i think they might be looking for a 3 down DT so they can shuffle the line and give everyone rest
I think you’re right, and that could well be. I also think the FA market is dwindling significantly for the potential three down types. What you are probably looking at is older fellas who might have a season or two left in the tank, and maybe younger guys who still might offer some upside that they can develop along with the guys on the roster. They seem pretty focused at looking at big bodied players in this draft.
Roy Miller did post 4 sacks in 2015, but in 2016, his season was cut short. So if healthy, he could offer some inside rush at the nose.
Rob any thoughts if the Seahawks would be interested in just released DT Roy Miller from Jacksonville? He had 4 sacks in 2015 with the jaguars, and from what I’ve read he seemed to be a pretty good run stuffer for them as well. He could provide some nice depth at DT and I don’t think he would be too expensive either. Maybe sign him for something similar to what Kevin Williams received a few years ago, along the lines of 1 yr 2 million guaranteed, with some incentives.
I would advocate for bringing SOME vet DT in for sure.
I don’t know a great deal about him to be honest.
Right now I would prefer King over Melifonwu, because we really need a elite corner with ball skills opposite Sherman. Then he can replace Sherman in the future. If we draft Obi, I would really want Witherspoon because he is a good consolation prize, just needs to get better in the run defense aspect.
I agree but I don’t see how a CB with Kings skill set is there still at 26.
The main threats I see are the Eagles, Titans, raiders, and the maybe the cardinals
I liked the idea of Lang as much as anyone, but not at over $9 million per year… I’m surprised the Seahawks were willing to spend that much money.
It will be interesting to see where the team plans on using Joeckel – I wonder if he isn’t being brought in as a placeholder to let Fant sit for a year. I know the best way for Fant to get better is to play, but when you have as little experience as him he might be able to get more benefit from practice than others.
Also, if (and it’s a big if) Joeckel plays well at the tackle position and we don’t re-sign him we could have just bought a comp pick for around $7 million.
Wow! 3years for $28.5 M with $19M guaranteed. The FA market for linemen has gone nuts. We can all feel a little better about missing out on TJ Lang now. He is now the 5th highest paid guard in the NFL.
We paid $8 mil / $7 mil for a guy coming off an ACL / MCL who could not win the OT spot for the Jags. I don’t feel any better.
That was a market rate deal certainly not an over pay and looks like a steal compared to the deal we gave Joeckel.
I agree, was an overpay and don’t really like it, but it’s 1 year. Lang is locked up for $7 per year for 3 years at age 30.
He does come out of a ZBS in college, have ‘some’ skill…but who else was there to get on a one year deal??
I feel Seattle played the $ for draft pick game here…
Either he pans out, or plays so-so…we resign him, or he walks…
Just like this year, OL get “overpaid” in FA…so he becomes an $7-8million dollar trial, or a 3-4 round COMP pick in 2019…
Works for Seattle either way…Hopefully he can PLAY!
WAY too much for a 30 year old injured G…
Good News for Seattle!
I think this shows.. how poor the draft is for OL talent this year. If you have OL needs, FA or bust.
Lions matched Seahawks offer..
Ragin Celtic drew with rangers. There has been a few punches thrown tonight I guarantee any Celtic fans that. Scrapping with huns in airdrie. Even worse when you here no T.J Lang.
Just have to hope for AD or Jamal Charles. Take either in a heartbeat. Long as they don’t cost too much
Kinda surprising
Rangers got a yank i like on loan and he’s been a revelation for them
Just a kid in fact!!
Man. If you go to Detroit…. it is only about the money. Forget winning.
Not if that is your home and you can see family all the time. You can’t put a price on your family. I’d rather see my Mom one last time than play football and win 10 Super Bowls. I’m not going to fault the guy for that. Now, if he was from Florida or California… then I would.
Definitely man. And his wife/girlfriend is from their as well right?
A football career has to be tough on the family, putting her around a support structure is totally fair.
I like what Detroit is doing in FA. Building up the lines on both sides of the ball. Good HC and good QB. I can’t fault Lang at all for signing with them and having a chance to bring a first ever title to his home town team. What professional athlete wouldn’t want that?
You realize we played them in the playoffs last year, right?
No Lang, No Worries Mock Draft.
26: R1P26
S OBI MELIFONWU
CONNECTICUT
58: R2P26
CB AHKELLO WITHERSPOON
COLORADO
90: R3P26
G ISAAC ASIATA
UTAH
102: R3P38
EDGE VINCE BIEGEL
WISCONSIN
106: R3P42
CB MARQUEZ WHITE
FLORIDA STATE
210: R6P26
DL JOSH TUPOU
COLORADO
226: R7P8
LB JORDAN EVANS
OKLAHOMA
Obi Won, all the way. Pete Carroll finds true love again with his perfect swiss army knife on the defense. What position he ultimately ends up playing will be figured out later. All Pete is happy with his getting himself an extremely athletic playmaker.
Pete also finds happiness in taking a pure outside corner in Witherspoon that he feels comps very favorably to Richard Sherman. In fact, those will pretty much be the first words out of his mouth when describing him (surely, to set off a season long speculation that Seattle will look to unload the volatile Sherman in the next offseason now that they procured his replacement).
They didn’t sign TJ Lang? No problem, they drafted Asiata to compete with Mark Glowinski, and may the best man win.
Then they take gritty Badger LB Biegel to mix in with KJ and Bobby. They also double down at lengthy CB taking White.
The LOB is back, Children.
Does Seattle draft a twitchy inside rusher? No. Do they sign one in FA? Maybe, maybe not. What they like is the potential of Quinton Jefferson, and the continual maturation of feisty junkyard dog Jarran Reed, and they like Clint Hurtt to develop them as rushers. So, they add another enormous plug up the middle run stuffer in 350 lb Josh Tupou who had himself a nice pro day.
They round things out by finding late round value in Jordan Evans, who in other draft years, might have gone much higher.
Nice draft and hard to argue with any of the picks really.
Not sure I would take White that early however. If he was the target you could trade back into the 4th or 5th to get more picks I think.
Very possible. I think we almost have to expect Seattle to trade back at some point. I think it’s been said that John Schneider typically likes to come away with 9 draft pick, or more. I think they could trade out of any of there first five, maybe even a couple times.
Love this
C-Dog, you lean, mean mockin machine-I like it !
Thanks, bankhawk! It does kinda make me feel lean and mean, or as Lyle Alzado would have liked to have said, “agile, mobile, and hostile.”
This is the most realistic mock draft I have seen. Very credible.
Yes C-Dog. Very credible. There is only one catch. Someone will have to teach Witherspoon how to tackle.
This is great! It brings up an interesting question. If the Hawks pass on Witherspoon in the second, any chance he lasts until they pick again in the third??
I’m not sure Biegel has the explosion to play EDGE. I think he could be a good LB but getting him to rush from Seattle’s base D w/o elite explosion seems unlikely.
The only player I can think to comp for seattle’s EDGE position is Irvin. And his 3 cone/short shuttle/10 yard split are pretty blistering plus he was taller and a bit longer.
I’m going to have to bust your chops (and perhaps eat crow on draft day!!!) but I don’t see the Witherspoon-Sherman comp. They’re both long. like really long for CB’s even in this modern game. Excellent passes defensed. Rotten INT ratio. Not a run defender for a team that prides itself on being one of the best to stop the run. For me will be really interesting if he gets drafted in the 2nd. Could see Seattle selecting him in the third.
Like White/Tupou/Evans quite a bit where you have them.
Rotten run defender, but you coach that up. Much harder to teach a corner to play with the the technique, awareness, and ball skills of someone like Witherspoon.
True with the ball skills. I’m not taking anything away from his stellar stats in that regard. Dude is sticky. I’m just looking at Vmac visits from him and maybe for, though we wouldn’t know if it happened, the Seahawks coaches to speak in depth if possible with CO’s coaches.
If you can coach it up then absolutely in the second. I’m not a DB coach so I’m not sure what the requirements they would be looking for.
Given the lack of OL coming out of college or that hit free agency if Bolles, Lamp or Ramyzyk are still on the board at 26 don’t you almost have to pick one of these guys given the law of supply and demand? There is a ton of great defensive talent and basically 5-6 draft able OL men.
I prefer Reddick, King, Obi and even Baker to any of the OL except Bolles but I think if a Lamp or Ramyzk was there then they would have to be the pick given the state of OL in CFB and NFL.
For Example
Rd#1 Ryan Ramyzyk
Rd#2 Akhello Witherspoon
Rd#3 Joe Mathis (LB /Wash)
Rd#3 Shalomi Lunai (S / Wash St)
Rd#3 Issac Asitata (G / Utah)
Rd#6 George Kittle (TE / Iowa)
Rd#7 Robert Davis (WR / Georgia St)
Rd#7 Rob Henderson (DT / Alabama St)
2017 OL
Fant, Glowinski, Britt, Ifedi, Joeckel
Reserves (Rees, Assita, Ramyzk, Gilliam)
2018 OL
Fant, Assita, Britt, Ifedi, Ramyzyk
Reserves (Rees, Glowinski, Rookie, Rookie)
Ooh ooh, Robert Davis!
I hope not, but I don’t think Seattle would be in that position anyways. All 3 of those guys are probably gone before 26. The NFL is so offensive line hungry. I’m actually warming up to the idea of Cam Robinson at 26. Still baffled by giving $7 million guaranteed to Joeckel.
There is a certain logic to signing Cam Robinson at #26 for 5 years for a total of $10M versus Okung for 4 years and $53M. The rookie LT is going to do great things for a teams salary cap management.
Wouldn’t be at all surprised if Cam Robinson was our first pick but I could say that about a lot of guys.
If I was placing a bet today it would be on Obi.
I think that Rob’s work on TEF and wTEF has identified a pattern that Seattle appears to choose from, in regards to their OL. If they drafted Robinson, he would be an outlier with his low scores in both formulas. I am seeing reports claiming that Seattle is bringing in Zach Banner in for a visit, and both Robinson and Banner scored poorly through TEF and wTEF, but I think Banner would be more likely to last until day 3; where drafting a player like that wouldn’t be as much of a reach.
I think Banner would last until Day 5 of the draft…..
Haha! That could happen. Would you draft a player with the athletic profile of Banner and Robinson in the 3rd day? I’m just not seeing much from either of these players, but I don’t want to completely rule them out just yet.
Franco Harris, Jerry Rice, Terrell Owens… Adrian Peterson?!?
I thought the same thing.
I think AP’s still got more in the tank (unlike those other guys did at the time). I’m leaning Lacy though.
Maybe. Apparently Lacy left Seattle on Saturday without an offer. I think they want to check out Latavius Murray.
Charles, if healthy, hedges nicely against Prosise missing any more time. Not the early down grinder the other three are though.
Don’t forget Carl Eller.
I feel Lang could’ve helped this OL, but not for the price tag of $9.5M/annually. SEA has shown a propensity to trust the process and reward players from within. The guy I’m interested we had no contact with was Chance Warmack. He signed a 1-yr deal with the Eagles for $1.5M. I know he had some issues with coaches in TEN and that could’ve easily swayed us off of him.
Chancellor needs to be taken care of and I foresee it coming soon.
I think Joeckel is playing RT and our starting OL today would look like Fant-Glowinski-Britt-Ifedi-Joeckel. Let’s see what the kids got. If he stinks he place up, it’ll be just like Webb. The F/O has shown in the past they aren’t afraid to pull the plug on bad investments
My first thought was RT also. I wonder if they’d consider Fant at RT
Any thoughts on the Seahawks bringing in Austin Pasztor? I calculate his TEF to be about 3.00. Seems like he had some ups and downs during his time as a starter for the Browns.
Austin Pasztor TEF variables: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=83948&draftyear=2012&genpos=OG
Could be on the radar. They’ve been attached to Brian Schwenke. It will be interesting to see if they now bring him in. My guess is that they will probably want to add one more veteran before the draft.
What about the rumor of lions know willing to trade laken Tomlinson? First rounder from 2015, would be cheap financially and only cost a later pick
I’d be interested to see what comes of that. Even if we aren’t the team to trade for him, it could effect our draft
Seahawks prospect visits (so far, via walterfootball.com)
Seattle Seahawks
Isaac Asiata, G/C, Utah (SR)
Antony Auclair, TE, Laval (EW)
Budda Baker, S, Washington (COM)
Zach Banner, OT, USC (COM)
Javancy Jones, OLB, Jacksonville State (EW)
Shalom Luani, S, Washington State (COM)
Obi Melifonwu, S, Connecticut (COM)
Carroll Phillips, DE/3-4OLB/OLB, Illinois (SR)
Cordrea Tankersley, CB, Clemson (COM)
Dalvin Tomlinson, DT/NT, Alabama (COM)
Josh Tupou, DT, Colorado (PRI)
I’d like to learn more about Phillips and Jones. What are the chances we seriously consider Tankersley at 26?
Volume 12 is pretty high on Jones, I think. Gritty Seahawky backstory and a high effort, high character player. He could be a player to monitor down the road.
Phillips has kind of a Bruce Irvin vibe to him as a player and his background as well.
I like Phillips a lot. He’s a downhill pkayers who would need to grow a lot as a coverage player, but in pass rushing and pursuit to the ball carrier he’s tenacious and has great burst to the ball. Plays with violence too.
Obi visited? Nice, first I’ve seen that, glad to hear it though! Thx for the info misfit!
I think Tankersley’s 4.4 40, and his production this year at Clemson will have a team drafting him day-2. Other than his 40 time though, I was disappointed in his combine performance.
https://youtu.be/FrLxT_R_3FM
Javancy Jones
Haven’t seen a whole lot of Schwenke but he seems like he can do an ok job. He seems like he was in the same boat as Ronald Leary. The first lineman off the bench on a top 3 line (Leary lost his job to Collins before he got hurt). If he comes at any sort of discount price they should take a shot. Ifedi is the biggest pivot point on that line. I think he can handle a move outside. I also have an irrational amount of hope in Fant.
I still think the most realistic draft scenario is slight trade back, draft King first pick, draft Bowser/And alone. That is unless Bolles or Reddick drops…
Schwenke would be a solid pick up. Can play guard and center.
https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/841098146952433667?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Would you trade our 26 for Butler and sign him to a 13 apy contract?
No. We can’t afford it really and I would rather get someone young to develop in house with that pick.
Nope. I don’t think I want the guy who put the dagger in our back to back superbowl shot.
Agree. Maybe someday GMs will learn that trading high draft picks for player you have to pay immediately at market value is just dumb.
Could Seattle ever truly love him?
Nope. A team that can develop corners and almost never spend high draft capital on the position has no reason to doubt their philosophy now in making such a bold (rash) move.
If anything, use a pick to trade up, if necessary, from 26, to secure one of the top-shelf corners in this draft and enjoy the cap numbers from a 4-5 year rookie contract.
He’ll no!!
Seattle doesn’t have the cap space for all these players. Hard to believe JS offered Lang 9.5 per.
I get the appeal of Lang and he would’ve been a nice addition, but your right. That’s a lot of coin for a guard coming off multiple injuries.
Joeckel got paid a lot as well. But, he’s a tackle and not even 26 years old. He was the best of an awful, awful situation. Bad year for O-lineman all around (the guards in the draft are pretty good), he does come with risk but then again most FA signings do. In the grand scheme of things though, he’s a low risk/high upside acquisition.
The pipeline from Texas A&M to Seattle continues.
They are going to take a NT it seems, anybody got any favorites?
Roderick Henderson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSOOGDMokmQ
That clip is amazing. Henderson reminds me of Cortez Kennedy, big, big butt and looks rather squatty, but moves well and is very quick off the line. Of course, Cortez was doing that kind of stuff against NFL linemen, and Henderson is playing against lesser players. Still, the explosive moves are there, and I would hope he would be there on day 3 or as a fa.
Tez is my favorite Seahawk of all time. JJ Watt is closest thing for an interior lineman since I can think of. Regular double and even triple teams and still domimated; took over games. He was a bad dude!
Time to check out Rod Hendo
+1. Gritty backstory too
I could see the Hawks bringing Giacomini.That would give you an offensive line of Giacomini. Joeckel, Fant, Gilliam(for time being) Glow, Britt, Ifedi, Odhiambo ,Hunt. That is already nine offensive lineman. That’s usually all they keep. So if the Hawks took an offensive lineman in the draft that means someone would have to go. Probably Gilliam.
For sure, Giacomini would be a cool reunion, he’d give us more of a veteran presence, he knows the system, and he’s a mauler in the run game, I think he’d win the RT job over anybody including Joeckel, sending either Joeckel or Gilliam to LT.
First team: Fant, Glowinski, Britt, Ifedi, Giacomini
2nd team: Joeckel, Odhiambo, Hunt, draft pick, Gilliam
This would have a lot of competition.
He would need to pass a physical. He has been pretty banged up, so he may not be the player he was, but maybe he is better. Worth a look.
Before Sidney Jones got injured I thought Melifonwu would go before Kenny King. Now all bets are off. Unfortunately Jones injury will benefit King.
One of the Hawks first two pics in the draft has to be either a safety or a cornerback. Personally I would take Melifonwu over King for a couple one reasons. Number one is because Melifonwu is a Freak of nature. JS/PC like freaks of nature. 2nd The guy can multiple positions. 3rd The cornerback class is much deeper than the safety class. 4th Both (whether you want to admit it or not) Kam/ET are starting to break down. With all that being said if both Melifonwu and T.J. Watt are on the board I probably go:
1) Watt
2) Cornerback
3rd round use one of my pics on a Safety.
Finsll with all that being said. When the Hawks pick at 26. Humphrey, Bolles, Ramczyk and Reddick are probably off the board. Between Watt/Melifonwu hopefully at least one of those two are still on the board. T.J. Watt lives/breaths football and his combine numbers are similar to Clay Matthews. Plus Watt has 12 more pounds of muscle compared to Matthews.
King is pretty freaky himself, but yeah I agree! I want Obi personally, even over Watt. I honestly don’t see Watt lasting until 26, though I’d certainly be ok with Watt in the PNW. I’ve got to admit, this draft has me far more excited than last years.
I wouldn’t extend Kam. At the end of his contract I would give him
Nothing but a very big thank you. They’ve wrung the best football out of him and paid him handsomely for it.
I can’t with this. Like…really?
Really. I’m not into high dollar contracts for defensive players after age 29. If you can’t find new leadership and new talent by then you’ve failed.
I disagree one of the things that has made Seattle a little different is how they have tried to re-sign and retain the core of this group. I wish Kam had already re-signed.
If he does want too much $ or wants to wait till free agency now to test the market then in all likelihood he will be gone and that is unfortunate IMO as he should retire a Hawk.
well, they’ve already re-signed him once. For how long should they continue? At the start of his next contract, he’ll be 30, have played for 8 seasons, played in over 100 regular season games and at least 14 playoff games. For how long should we expect him to be an elite level player? And for how long should they pay for past performance?
NE let Seymour, Milloy, and Law walk at the same age for very good reason. The data show players at this age just are not what they used to be. Kam may well be an outlier but I’m willing to let another team pay top dollar to find out.
You can disagree with the approach, but it’s not crazy- it’s grounded in evidence. Paying past 30 is generally not a good idea.
I agree Rad_Man. I’d at least let him play out this season before any extension is offered. If it’s an average season, let him test the market.
I think I would absolutely let him play this year out before making a decision on an extension. If he has another good year, he can be retained via the tag or just re-signed. If he plays well and finds a big payday elsewhere then he would net a nice comp pick, it’s really a win-win situation. There is absolutely no reason to trade him now or any of that nonsense, the only potential pitfall is if he gets hurt this year early or if his play regresses. In that case though, it would certainly be a relief to know we didn’t invest any future money into him.
Letting him play the season out and re-assessing is fine. But at the end of the season he’ll be 29, and starting the next season at 30 with a ton of football under his belt. That is not young. That is not prime. And that is not cheap.
They already have a significant commitment to 1 defensive player into his mid 30’s. Meanwhile they’ll have players ending contracts who are actually entering or still in their primes (Clark, Lockett) or younger than Kam who also approaching expiring contracts (Wagner, Earl).
The reality is this defense is not young. And I’d argue it’s only barely still in its prime. The run the risk of becoming an old roster with the wrong moves.
Has anyone been paying attention to what Bill Belichick is up to. Pretty genius if you ask me. Belichick knows how to think outside the box. Both Jaime Collins and Chandler Jones were in their last year of their current contracts. So what does Belichick do. He turns them into draft picks. Collins signs with Cleveland for 4 years 50 million. Chandler Jones signs a LT deal for 83 million. BTW Jones was the player I was hoping the Hawks would taking instead of Bruce Irvin. Anyway Belichick flips a draft pick and trades for Kony Ealy. Now Belichick has his pass rusher w/o paying 83 million. Saints also trade Brandin Cooks to New England. Looks to me that the Saints are becoming Bill Belichick’ Triple A farm club. Maybe JS can take a page out of Belichick’s playbook. Also no one ever gets the best-selling of Belichick when they trade with the Patriots.
And they could get a kings ransom for Jimmy G! It’s gotta be frustrating for their fans though…they never know if it’s safe to buy any players jersey except Brady cause they could get shipped off tomorrow!
It’s why in the NFL you root for the jersey and not the name on it. It’s great to have favorite players but it’s important to realize time is a precious commodity in the NFL, and greatness is fleeting for basically everyone but QBs.
Yeah. It’s also why 5 years ago I bought a Largent jersey. No uncertainty there
I wouldn’t be too worried about that. I guess there are always dumb teams out there, but they should know the Pats don’t have much leverage there. My understanding is that if they keep him they either pay him big next year or lose him to FA. So why would teams pay a king’s ransom (i.e., high draft picks) for a guy that (a) they are going to have to pay big money for in one year and (b) they could just sign as a FA, with no draft pick compensation, next year? You are basically giving up a “king’s ransom” for a 1-year tryout.
Because if you trade, you own his rights and you are the exclusive negotiating team. If you wait, then you have to compete with 10 other teams for his services. If you’re in an unattractive market, he’s unlikely to even consider you (Cleveland). Also, any trade would likely be contingent on the team working out a new contract with J.G. Just like Seattle and Minnesota, with the Harvin deal.
I gotta think he overpaid signing Gilmore for 14 mil a year though. I guess that signifies that the price of elite corners has gone up when a guy as inconsistent as Gilmore is now getting elite corner money.
I’m taking a wait and see approach with the Patriots this offseason. They are losing some serious talent and replacing it with different types of pieces. It will be interesting, but the thing to keep in mind is that some of their success is coaching, not necessarily just the talent of the players. Logan Ryan was an ok CB, Gilmore is likely a bit of an upgrade at that CB spot opposite Butler (if they keep him). They are quite possibly losing Donta Hightower though, and he was their best defensive player in 2015-2016. Chandler Jones was a big loss, but they had Sheard, Hightower, Ninkovich, Long, Flowers. From that group they now have only Flowers. They did acquire Kony Ealy, and he’s a nice player in a similar mold to Flowers, but they lost depth in their pass rush. I always thought Jaime Collins was overrated, and I don’t know what to make of Elandon Roberts just yet, but I’m sure they both benefited from lining up next to Donta Hightower. On offense, they lost Bennett and gained Cooks. Are they better after that trade-off? Does Dwayne Allen help much as more of a big body than vertical threat? They are different, but a they had a lot to do since they have so many guys leaving.
I can see us spend for one more FA, obviously we almost spent $9.5M on Lang. I want to see that money go to a contract for Latavius Murray.
2 years $12.5M? 8M guarantee it 4 years $25M 15M guarantee. He’s a beast, would give us a much more physical option for the goal line, he’s still young. The first contract option would allow him to hit FA again in his prime and the other would lock him up. Then we could sign an OL or DT too if we wanted
I think like always, they’ll let the market dictate itself as they should.
Lacy Saturday, Peterson Sunday, Charles Monday (?), Murray Tuesday. Would be very surprising if they signed one before Wednesday.
It is already surprising that they have acted as early as they have this year. Caught me off guard. There is still a lot of time until camp, and other players may appear on the lists. Signing a running back, to me, does not seem a priority, especially since there are interesting backs in this draft class. If they need a bruiser, then bring in Perine (although I have mixed feelings about a player whose name sounds like a schoolyard taunt).
Mainly, though, no Peterson. Unless he agrees to provide his own willow switches.
I want to see them sign Murray as well. Only three years of real tred on he tires. Would be a good complement to rawls and prosise.
Give Murray 40 percent of carries, Rawls 30 percent and Prosise 30 percent.
Have you seen Murray play? Very unimpressive.
Murray is 27 this year, so this is really his only chance at a big payday, unless he signs for one year. Lacy is 26, he might be more interested in a one year, prove it deal, so he could hit FA again next year at 27 after regaining his former glory. It sure would be awesome If the Seahawks could benefit by giving either that opportunity. I think Prosise is the future in Seattle, so whoever is signed is likely just keeping the seat warm and serving as injury insurance anyway.
Although I have been avidly following the draft for many years I remain baffled by the mock drafts and big boards that I see. I get the feeling that pundit A puts his mock together by comparing the mocks of a few (maybe one) colleagues and makes a couple of changes so it is not a copy…no depth analysis.
Outside of Rob, who has proven himself repeatedly, it is difficult to know if a reporter is talking about his own observations, or is just doing the echo chamber.
Admittedly, this arose in me from trying to do mock drafts on Fanspeak (I am retired, I have time on my hands, and I can’t watch film all the time). You can choose whose ratings to use, but none of them seem to relate at all to the subjects (players) that are in focus here. No problem ending up with Riddick, Bolles, Ruben Foster, Obi, KKing, and so on.
It makes it fun to score a dream draft, but the teams have it down better, and they will find the players. Somebody mentioned making a big board here with posters making contributions, and I would love that. It would be much more relevant than anything I’ve seen.
Check out Josh Norris’ mock, http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/70242/344/mock-draft-iii
He DGAF!
I actually don’t mind what Seattle is doing one bit. You have a core in the prime of their careers. Let the market come to you. Load up on positions you have uncertainty at, let these guys compete, and the cream will rise to the top.
Its going to be an extremely competitive summer.
So true. I am jacked. For the last several seasons (pc/js) the front office has been able to include several rookies into a team that is already among the best. The details. The details.
We all know that we are about to see the emergence of a new group of athletes, all of whom are elite. Maybe not elite in the NFL, but for the rest of the population… Anticipate who will turn out to be the guy who makes a difference. Rawls, McAvoy, Fant, and who’s next.
It will indeed be a competitive, and entertaining summer.
I want to see what McEvoy can do next year, as well as Richardson.
Hey Rob. If Ryan Ramsyck makes it into the 20 how much would it cost us to move up and snag him? At the same time is he that much better than Cam Robinson that we would even consider such a trade?
I’m not sold on either. For me it’d be Bolles or defense.
I agree. This team needs to re-load on D in this draft, and I don’t see the opportunity cost of any other O line aside from Bolles to be worth it