Joel Bitonio could be Logan Mankins

March 8th, 2014 | Written by Rob Staton

Underrated.

I sat down and watched Joel Bitonio’s tape vs Fresno State today — and once again came away thoroughly impressed.

One thought stuck in my head…

‘This guy reminds me of someone’

Logan Mankins is 32 on Monday. He’s had a terrific career with the Patriots.

He’s been to six Pro Bowls. He’s a five-time All-Pro. He had the franchise tag in 2011 and he’s been to two Super Bowls.

There haven’t been many better left guards in the NFL in the last nine years.

And when I watch Bitonio for Nevada, I see Mankins.

I did a bit more digging and some of the comparisons are crazy:

College career
Mankins — Left Tackle for Fresno State in the MWC
Bitonio — Left Tackle for Nevada in the MWC

Combine numbers
Height: Mankins (6-4) — Bitonio (6-4)
Weight: Mankins (307lbs) — Bitonio (302lbs)
Arm length: Mankins (33 3/8) — Bitonio (33 7/8)
Forty yard dash: Mankins (5.06) — Bitonio (4.97)
Short shuttle: Mankins (4.45) — Bitonio (4.44)
Three cone: Mankins (7.54) — Bitonio (7.37)
Bench press: Mankins (21) — Bitonio (22)
Vertical jump: Mankins (31.5) — Bitonio (32)
Broad jump: Mankins (7.11) — Bitonio (9.6)

Look how similar those numbers are. An almost identical vertical, bench press and short shuttle. Bitonio actually grades higher in the broad jump and forty. He also has slightly longer arms.

Mankins was drafted with the #32 pick by the Super Bowl Champions with the intention of converting to left guard in the NFL.

Could Bitonio also be drafted by the reigning Champions with the intention of switching to left guard?

Mankins is a great finisher, capable of getting a defender off balance — driving open a running lane and completing the block. He was also an excellent pass-protector during his peak years.

You see so many similar traits with Bitonio.

He’s a slightly better athlete. And while he has the core strength, leg drive and technique you want to see — he’s also adept at pulling out of position and getting to the second level. He’s also a finisher who plays with a real edge.

Mankins has been one of the toughest players on the Pats roster over the last few years.

Bitonio is cut from the same cloth. He never backs down. He looks for people to punish.

He’s a coaches dream.

Every time you put on the tape, you can’t help but come away impressed with this guy.

Why is nobody talking about him?

Right now I’d be willing to give him a top-20 grade. I can’t think of 20 players in this draft I’d want ahead of Joel Bitonio.

Regular visitors to this blog know I’ve argued again and again about the obsession NFL fans have with offensive linemen.

‘Games are won in the trenches’ is the cliché. Games are actually won in many different ways. And several of the recent Super Bowl Champions (Seattle included) have not won because of an elite, dominating offensive line.

In fact I’ve been anti Seattle taking a guard in round one. I think there’s better value elsewhere and the likes of David Yankey are so overrated, he’ll probably still be around late into day two of the draft.

Forget all that.

Draft this guy.

If he’s there at #32, I’d run to the podium.

Bitonio has the potential to be great. And for whatever reason he continues to fly under the radar while other, weaker players get so much publicity.

I believe he can play tackle. Sure. But I want to kick him inside to guard. I want to see if he really is going to be the next Mankins.

He’s great in pass protection at left tackle. He can kick slide, mirror and defend against speed. He can deliver a nice solid punch to the chest of a D-end and win with power. There’s no reason why those skills can’t be translated to guard.

But it’s his work in the run game that has me most excited. He knows how to turn a defensive lineman to take him out of the play and free up running lanes. He’ll drive a guy backwards and dump him on his ass. He’ll pull around to the right and deliver a key block to turn a decent gain into a good gain.

I’ll say it again. He’s being hugely underrated.

Judge for yourself, here’s the Fresno State tape. I made some notes underneath.

1:35 — quick to recognise the blitz and pick it up. He’s got his eyes on the edge rusher who sits, he spots the interior blitzer and stops him getting to the quarterback. Excellent awareness, speed and power to execute. Not many college tackles can do this.

1:51 — drives his defender off the spot to the right hand side, dumps him on his backside and creates a running lane. Good defense in the secondary to react to the situation and limit the damage.

3:47 — gets to the second level, drives forward.

4:17 — finishes the block. Drives his guy downfield and keeps fighting, doesn’t back down. Edgy.

4:26 — kick slide, gives the edge rusher no chance to beat him. Quick feet at all times. Body position is ideal and always in control. Good hand use once engaging in the block. Can’t be beaten by power at this level.

4:39 — drives his man off the spot. Watch the replay. This is why he can play guard. Power at the point of attack, drives his man sideways and finishes the block by dumping the defender on his back side.

5:06 — great pull and then finishes the block for extra yardage.

5:28 — perfect kick slide on third down. Allows time in the pocket and the quarterback converts on third and six with a developing route down the seam.

5:39 — blocks and dominates his guy at the line of scrimmage while two other defensive linemen penetrate up the middle. Nice example of the difference in quality on that Nevada line.

6:20 — his guy (#31) doesn’t rush, so he goes and finds someone else to hit (#27). The pressure from the right side gets to the quarterback, but you can’t help but notice Bitonio’s determination to get involved and find someone to hammer.

6:57 — drives his man to the right and opens up a big hole on the left side for a strong run for a first down. Watch the replay to see just how much he moves the defender off his spot.

8:10 — great initial punch to win the block. Ends the contest with his first move. The protection is good enough to complete a touchdown pass.

8:59 — quick feet, good mirror on the pass rush.

There are very few players I’d draft ahead of Bitonio if he’s on the board at #32.

On a physical and athletic level he compares to the best tackles in this class — Greg Robinson, Taylor Lewan and Jake Matthews. Check out my article from last week for more on that.

Move him to left guard and make him the backup left tackle if Russell Okung gets another injury. I think you’d finally tie up that position for the long term, with a player good enough to warrant the long term investment.

Whether he ends up being the next Logan Mankins or not — I’ll guess we’ll find out in time. He has a good shot.

Either way, I suspect he’s going to be a quality player at the next level.

123 Responses to “Joel Bitonio could be Logan Mankins”

  1. David Mast says:

    Off topic, but sounds like the Raiders are letting Jacoby Ford test free agency. You think the hawks will pick him up if golden is gone? Or is he worth the investment? I know he isn’t a no.1 but he does have deep threat ability

  2. cha says:

    I would definitely support drafting him, it seems down the stretch the LG spot was a seesaw depending on the opponent and current practice play. A player who could play any opponent or style of play would be a welcome addition.

    Also, not trying to hijack the thread but jags sign Red Bryant to a 4 yr deal per Schefter.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Yep a good deal for Big Red. Pleased for him.

    • James says:

      Good for Big Red. The contract is such that he could stay the full four years and earn the entire $17 million. He will provide tremendous leadership for the Jags. The Seahawks need that money elsewhere. For basically the same contract, we could probably re-sign Golden Tate. Everyone comes out OK.

    • Madmark says:

      I think its a great opportunity for Big Red and think we could see them taking a few others of our defense in FA. Can you imagine what a Big Red and a Walter Thurman from this defense with super bowl rings and the veteran leadership could do for that jax lockroom.

  3. David Mast says:

    I honestly think the found there left guard in Bowie. He looked pretty good vs NO in the playoffs, and Pete specifically said he was playing Carpenter/ Mcquistian over him in the championship and Super Bowl because they had more experience of playing in high pressure games like those. But we’ll never see. Depends on if Breno is resigned or not

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think it’s a case of asking… how sure are you Bowie is the guy versus what Bitonio could bring to the table. Bowie can still offer nice depth at tackle and guard, but is he starter material? Bitonio, for me, could be Logan Mankins good. That’s exciting.

      • David Mast says:

        Yeah I agree with you on that, Bitonio is in instant plug and play type of guy. Is he familiar with Zone Blocking Scheme?

        • Kenny Sloth says:

          I don’t think so, but he’s got crazy lateral agility.

        • Rob Staton says:

          No but every college lineman has to learn that scheme.

        • Attyla the Hawk says:

          The scheme you can learn.

          I would say, that Nevada runs a very similar scheme to ours. They downblock a lot to create cutback lanes. You see Bitonio execute this beautifully.

          They also ask their OL to cut block. And in this regard, I’d put his ability at the top of the entire OL class. He’s not just good at it. He is excellent at it. He gets so far into the opposing DL’s legs that they really don’t have much of an ability to fight him off with their hands. They can’t even concede ground and work around him. They just go straight down and are completely erased from the play.

      • AlaskaHawk says:

        We need Bitonio to fill in for Okung when he gets injured again. Year after next he could be permanent LT and save the Seahawks 10 million for a few years. Bowey or Bailey can play LG.

        • Austin says:

          Yeah I would definitely like to see an elite versatile lineman get drafted. Wilson can only take so many Mcquistan Bowie Tackle situations before an injury occurs or the offense is stalled to a level that the defense can’t compensate for. If he interviews well and really seems like he wants to be great, than I would be absolutely ecstatic about picking him.

          • Robert says:

            Did you say interview? This is probably not what you had in mind, but in this FOX interview, he sure comes across as a confident yet humble prospect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpsbW_Y2zD8

            • Austin says:

              Thanks. I was mostly referring to private interviews with the Seahawks staff, but after watching that on camera interview I have a feeling Bitonio probably killed it in private interviews, so now I’m definitely anxious to see if we take him.

    • Belgaron says:

      Sounds like the kind of depth problem they prefer, the only guy out of that situation is McQuistan. I could see them being happy to bring all the rest of those guys to camp and let Coach Cable sort it out including drafting Bitonio, re-signing Giacomini and binging back Carpenter in a contract year. Oline depth would be fantastic.

  4. plyka says:

    I think Bitano looks good. But who would you rather have, Bitanio or Xavier? I think it’s a toss up for me.

    Also, I have long held the beleif that the only position on the o-line you really need to draft high is LT. Outside of LT, I’d rather not spend high draft picks (1st or 2nd round) on the o-line. It’s a position where you can find great quality deep in the draft.

    A position where it makes all the sense in the world to draft high on is WR. And this team’s biggest weakness, as you have stated before, is that big bodied WR. The #1 WR types like Dez Bryant or Demarious Thomas or Juilio Jones or AJ Green, etc. This team has a massive hole in that department. And that makes it clear, the Hawks should probably allow Tate to walk and spend a high draft pick on the position. Especially if the right player is available –Kelvin Benjamin, Coleman, Robinson, Bryant, etc.

    • rrsquid says:

      For me Bitanio. Rob often talks about Seahawk-y type players and the video above shows exactly that. I don’t like the thought of a 1st round OL pick (although SF does have 3 on their OL.) However, this is shaping up to be the deepest all around draft in years. I think even this ‘weak’ QB class could have 2-3 long term starters.

    • Rob Staton says:

      On the first question, I’d rather have Bitonio.

      On the second bit, I don’t see any likelihood Benjamin is there at #32. I’m not seeing Robinson as a fit for Seattle. Both Coleman and Bryant intrigue me. I’ve not wanted to go guard for Seattle. But Bitonio is a rare case IMO. A rare opportunity to grab a 10 year starter at the position who plays at a top tier level. The sky’s the limit for JB.

      • Cole says:

        I guess a question for me would be: do you like him better as a guard in the NFL, or are you just projecting that for him as a case of circumstance with the Hawks already have Okung?

        • Rob Staton says:

          The more I watched of him, the similarities I spotted with Logan Mankins. When I looked at the physical comparisons, I was sold. They are almost identical. So it makes a great deal of sense to project Bitonio to guard just as the Pats did with Mankins. And if he ends up being half the player Mankins is, you’ve made a great decision.

    • Madmark says:

      Ah but this guy plays LT/LG

    • MRPEAPANTS says:

      couldn’t disagree more. lockette is 6′ 2″ kearse is 6’2″ I blame the red zone troubles more on play calling then lack of a 6′ 5″ guy. both lockette and kearse came on strong at the end of the year and both are goin to get better. we need oline depth and dline depth, and better play calling from bevel. not to mention we run more then we throw anyway! just seems like a luxury pick to me more then a need. go hawks

      • Nate says:

        I’d love Bitonio, thenJordan Matthews 2nd rd, since we signed Chris Matthews and we have Kearse and Lockette.

    • Ray says:

      Why exactly do you wish to spend a high draft pick on a part time player? I submit that an elite level LG is more valuable to this team. We are a run first team. With Percy here for a full season just how many targets is a rookie Wr gonna get? We won a superbowl without that giant receiver everyone is screaming for. I think the opportunity to solidify the o line for years to come is way more important the a luxury offensive weapon.

    • Robert says:

      I drool at the fantasy of Kelvin Benjamin putting an end to our red zone woes with catches above the crossbar!

      • Kenny Sloth says:

        Except Benjamin can’t jump for shit. OBJ gets as high up as he can. I don’t have much faith in Benjamin winning ‘jump balls’ per se, but he could be unstoppable on those back shoulder throws and red zone fades. All of his jump balls are going to look like that one touchdown catch he had when he snatched it off of the defenders helmet.

        • Robert says:

          And he has short arms and a very small catching radius. But I saw that one TD catch off the helmet and thought that would be duplicatable, Our new red zone, go to play!

  5. Stuart says:

    At #32 there will be one of;

    WR, Beckam, Lee or Benjamin

    DT/DE, Hagemann, Pruitt and much more

    OT-Bitonio and much more

    It would be a tough call. If we lose Tate, then WR is much more likely. If we lose Bennett, that DT is more likely. If we lose Breno, then OT is more likely.

    As of today, I think Tate stays, Bennett and Breno leave. Now it’s down to Dline or Oline, which?

    • Ben says:

      If Bennett leaves we’ve got a good chance to get Clinton McDonald and Tony McDaniel back. give me O-line.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I don’t have much hope Beckham, Lee or Benjamin will be there. They could all be gone by pick #15 IMO.

      • David M says:

        I think 1 will be there, I highly doubt Carolina will take a WR in round 1 anymore since half there line is gone…

        • Rob Staton says:

          Perhaps not, but all three are immense talents. Right now I have them all off the board by #15. I highly doubt they get through NYJ at #18 and KC, Cleveland, New England and San Fran will be looking at the position too, not just Carolina.

          Worth noting on the Panthers though — two of their better WR’s are free agents.

          • Robert says:

            But what if Tuitt and Hageman were still both available (hypothetically)? It seems like PCJS would like to infuse the DL with some young talent that gives the team control. Currently, we have a revolving door at 3T and question marks at 5T. And McD’s are productive players who might not be back, as well. Another thought is that we have a 3-way quality competition at LG. How much of an improvement would Bitonio represent at that position? I think they prefer to go DL if Tuitt or Hageman are available. If not, Bitonio must be high on their board. But I think they would use him to lower the cost of RT with much greater upside???

  6. Stuart says:

    With such a deep draft this year, I would be happy to trade 2015 draft picks for more ammo this year. We will be a lot of supplement draft picks anyway for next year and the year after.

    I have not done the draft point chart for this but what about trading next years #1, #4 for a pick in the early to mid 2nd to draft Bitonio? Is that too much or not enough?

    Don’t forget, we will be drafting at #32 again, back to back-repete (PC).

    • Jon says:

      I think a team would give us #40 for next years first and I would gladly take that deal because as you said #32 next year for #40 this year. It all depends on how highly the FO rates the players left on the board at 40.

  7. Attyla the Hawk says:

    Athletically, Bitonio doesn’t just rate with this class. He rates in the #3 to #10 range for nearly all metrics for all classes going back to 2010 combined. I did a study on him on .net detailing how he rated over that 5 year period.

    From an athletic standpoint, he is elite. And what’s most interesting is how broadly elite he is in all metrics.

    He’s an outlier from the pack. And if this were a more modest draft class, he’d be in the top 20 overall discussion. The fact is, his athleticism and draft stock is situationally stunted because a lot of high pedigree prospects who benefitted from top 10 at the position hype from last years’ draft have similarly tested well this year.

    Outside of Aaron Donald, I don’t see any other prospect whose testing numbers would stand out so starkly at 32 at any position in this draft. I’ve had this conversation before and someone countered with Bruce Campbell as a rebuttal. But Campbell’s tape was never any good. Before the combine, he was seen as a late day 3 pick. Bitonio’s tape is superb. And against top caliber competition it’s superb. Bitonio came into the combine with a 55-100 overall kind of grade. And the fact that most teams are looking at him as an OG, artificially suppresses his draft stock.

    We traded up and took Jesse Williams last year because his value stood out relative to all of the other prospects on the board. I would expect Bitonio’s to look similar at 32.

  8. kigenzun says:

    We have our differences Rob, but the main thing you and I totally agree on is: Bitonio is awesome. At #32 he has Seattle Seahawk written all over him. I see him as a starting LG, and backup LT if Okung succumbs to midseason injury. A significant upgrade to McQuistan’s roster spot IMO. Definitely worth a late first round pick. In fact, the only player in this entire draft I’d rather have is Aaron Donald, and the chances are next to nil he reaches the 32. Draft Bitonio.

  9. Matt says:

    eerily similar attributes between Mankins and Bitonio!
    The notes are pretty spot on. Bitonio never stops finding someone to hit, even if the play is 25+ yards away. Elite quickness/agility. Not great strength(for the next level), but the effort is no question!
    Learning the zone blocking scheme won’t be an issue at all for him. Sweezy came in and earned a starting job without having played on the OL before. Joel can start day 1 at LG(most likely) or RT.

    There were a few completely missed blocks on the game tape, but he recovered quickly.

  10. DawgDav says:

    Definitely wouldn’t be upset if they drafted Bitonio but I do worry about drafting guards this early in a zone blocking scheme. Power run teams (SF, Pit, etc) and heavy passing offenses (New Orleans, New England, Denver, etc) both need to place a high value on offensive guards but I just don’t see it being high on Seattle’s list. If he’s being drafted as a tackle then I understand but to me, it becomes a matter of comparison to the other players available. I’d love for them to grab Morgan Moses or “player B” below. For the sake of comparison:

    Player A – Ht: 6052, Wt: 307, Arm Lngth: 36″, 10 yd dash: 1.79, Bench: 38 reps, Vertical Jump: 32 1/2, Broad Jump: 08’09″, 20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.80, 3-Cone Drill: 7.79

    Player B – Ht: 6064, Wt: 322, Arm Lngth: 35 5/8″, 10 yd dash: 1.79, Bench: 21 reps, Vertical Jump: 27 1/2, Broad Jump: 08’00″, 20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.84, 3-Cone Drill: 7.71

    Player A has a clear advantage in the bench but otherwise pretty similar players athletically right? . . . Player A is Russell Okung and Player B is Cyrus Kouandjio. If Kouandjio’s knee is alright (as James Andrews and others claim), I’d love for the Hawks to “catch the faller” in this case. He bombed at the combine b/c his 40 was bad (and JS and PC have stated directly that for lineman they focus on 10 yd split and how the player finishes not the entire 40) and b/c people thought he had Tyron Smith type athleticism, which he doesn’t. As Okung shows, you don’t need that type of athleticism to be a tackle in the NFL, particularly a RT.

    Medical issues aside, I don’t see how Kouandjio grades out any worse than DJ Fluker who put up worse combine numbers yet has been successful as a rookie for the Chargers at RT and even spot starts at LT and was taken 11th overall.

    • Cole says:

      The difference for Seattle is the height of Russell Wilson. It is a factor, and it necessitates having good guard play.

  11. Attyla the Hawk says:

    It’s funny Rob, because when I first detailed on Bitonio, I thought of Mankins too. And in particular, I remembered how adamantly against going OL early you were and thinking back in February, that this might be the guy to turn your head.

    I think it’s telling, that we both kind of arrived at the same conclusions on him for in essence the exact same reasons. We pretty much see him in exactly the same way. I saw him immediately as a fit for our scheme looking at his tape after the Senior Bowl. His combine performance didn’t seem terribly eye popping until I started looking at it as a composite. And then comparing it to the recent drafts — he stands out so superbly.

    I still contend, that if he continues to fly under the radar, that he’s going to be available around pick 45 or so. And only if a team sees him as an OT, not an OG. Because most schemes are going to covet players like Su’a-Filo and Jackson at OG. But in all honesty, I expect to see his name called at 32 and Coleman at 64. It will be seen as a tad early on both of those players, but I just get a strong sense that these are our two guys we can’t leave the draft without. By virtually every metric we think Seattle covets (physically and mentally), he ticks all of the boxes and ticks them hard. I’d be thrilled at that kind of draft.

  12. CC says:

    Rob – Bitonio over Moses Morgan and Tiny Richardson? If all 3 are available, would you still pick Bit?

  13. Jon says:

    If we were to trade J Johnson what could we get, maybe a 5th rounder?
    There is no way we keep him at 2+ million. If we were afraid someone would offer to much for them to match in FA with the right of first refusal designation, I cant see them releasing and resigning like we did with a few last year.

  14. oz says:

    Great eval on Bitonio Rob. I was going over tape on him last week and that was the exact player he reminded me of. Almost posted it when you mocked him to the Hawks. (pull the trigger damn it)
    Good work Rob……

  15. Erik says:

    Rob,

    I like your thinking regarding this prospect.

    What are your thoughts on Okung’s long term status with the team? He makes elite money now but has been constantly hurt. He will want a raise. PC/JS could set this up so they dont have to pay top dollar at the LT position after Okungs contract expires. Thanks

    • Rob Staton says:

      He might struggle to get a raise. His cap hit this year is over $11m.

      I don’t think there’s any way Seattle lets Okung drift unless he misses a huge amount of time again this year. Even then, they might just see that as leverage. Quality left tackles don’t grow on trees. You usually have to pick them out of the top ten in the draft. I like Bitonio, but I like the idea of him starting at guard alongside a quality left tackle even more.

  16. dave crockett says:

    The big thing I want with that pick is long-term starter potential. That’s what we should be hunting for with #32.

    I think the biggest mistake teams make coming off a championship or lengthy playoff run is falling into the trap of looking for talent to fill a “specialty” role. (This is as opposed to a starter who simply plays the position the way the team wants it played.)

    I have felt like a LOT of the “big receiver” talk falls into this trap.

    I don’t want a “big receiver”. I want a receiver with long-term starter potential at least the equal of what we have. if he’s 6’3″ that’s great too, but I don’t want to get hung up on that.

    Bitonio sounds like long-term starter material, potentially at G or T. That makes him intriguing.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I’m not sure anyone wants a ‘big receiver’ for the sake of it, Dave. If I’ve projected a big receiver to Seattle, it’s only because I think they too can become a long term starter.

    • Belgaron says:

      They are always looking for long term starters. When they signed Rice and Miller, their ages were part of the attraction. Same with Harvin, Lynch, and Clemons when those trades went down.

      Length is another attribute that they find compelling, particularly at receiver. Chris Matthews, Stephen Williams, Rice, Mike Williams and others were all brought in because they like tall receivers. Obviously, they like other types of receiver as well.

      Height and long term starter potential are not mutually exclusive. You can bet they will continue to try to acquire both and together whenever possible.

  17. Kenny Sloth says:

    Do you absolutely see Bitonio as a Guard? I get and totally agree with the Mankins comp, but Bitonio is athletic enough, for me, to remain at Tackle.

    I would love Bitonio as a replacement for Giacomini. He would come much cheaper and would offer a similar tenacity while being an upgrade in many athletic categories. We’ve already got a lot of competition at LG and this should be Sweezy’s breakout year.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think he can play tackle. But I’d rather keep Breno and play him at guard.

      • Jon says:

        Also, if We keep Breno on say a three year 10-12m/yr deal, then we could eventually slide Bitonio to the right side if he Giacomini leaves in 2 or three years. Bitonio would not only give us a starter at G but a legit replacement in the case of an injury at T. Upgrade your guard and backup Tackle position with one single pick. Sounds good to me.

        I still love the Coleman though but I was reading somewhere that he was rated as something around the 80th or 90th prospect. Would it really be possible for us to get him at the end of round 2 if not trade back and get him even later into the early/mid 3rd round. This seems crazy just based on potential.

      • Kenny Sloth says:

        And if Breno leaves do Bailey and Joe Bit battle it out to be our RTOTF?

    • Robert says:

      That’s what I was thinking. We have a good 3 way competition at LG already. Bitonio would make a fine RT with good to great upside!

  18. LantermanC says:

    I’m sold on Bitonio. However, I feel the same way about him as I do Bobby Wagner and Russell Wilson. I believe they are top 30 talents, but if I don’t think/know if others see that; I’d love to see if we could get him in round 2.

    • Rob Staton says:

      We have the last pick in round two — so essentially it’s as close to a third rounder as you can get. Waiting until the second is more like waiting until the third in this case. I wouldn’t wait until #64 for Bitonio because I doubt he’ll be there.

  19. Stuart says:

    Just thought this up after reading the comments. I have to tell you, I would love this.

    #32-OT Kouandjio

    #40ish-OT Bitonio

    #64-WR Brandon Coleman or Moncreif

    We trade next years number 1 (likely 32 again) and change if necessary for the extra pick pick in R-2 this year to select Bitonio. Now we have our long term RT in Kouandjio and our long term LG in Bitonio, plus back up LT.

    Thoughts???

    • David M says:

      Love it love it love it. Man what a way to start the draft off with a bang!

    • Jon says:

      Or maybe
      #32 Bitonio
      #40 ASJ
      #64 Coleman

      I just don’t like the idea of taking on a possible injury risk in Kouandjio in the first. He did not show up ready at the combine why would we want to spend a 1st on that.

      • Hawks420 says:

        #32 Bitonio
        #40 ASJ
        #64 Coleman

        That would pretty cool Jon…. Couldn’t this pic order also fall really close to us if someone like Jacksonville sings Baldwin or Jeron Johnson?

        I don’t think it will happen, but it could.

        • Jon says:

          I dont think anyone will be giving us a 2nd for Johnson. Baldwin I guess is possible, but with the depth at WR this year in the draft I think that would be a stretch.

      • Attyla the Hawk says:

        So basically we’d be trading 2015′s #1 pick for ASJ or Kouandijo?

        No thanks.

        • Jon says:

          Those were simply two options. It could be any player that may be around at 32 and 40. Brent Urban, Bitonio, ASJ, Suafilo? Benjamin, Coleman, the list goes on and on with players that I would love to pick with #32 this year.

          The point is if there are 5 players that the Hawks want to take at #32, they can only pick 1 of them. And if there are 5 they would legitimately pick at 32 and then there is still one at 40 which is possible, then in a deep class with a guy on the board waiting and a trade can be made then I would pull the trigger. There is no guarantee that the player Seattle wants will be there next year.

          This is certainly over simplifying but that is the vision that I have.

          Please by all means, just pick your player with the scenario provided instead of just saying that a suggestion is not valid because you do not like the players listed.

          • Attyla the Hawk says:

            If we’re talking scenarios, then I’m not in favor of a 1:1 kind of deal. Seattle can trade down this years’ pick for more than just a single pick.

            Next years’ pick is a complete unknown. That makes such a deal risky. If I’m looking at that scenario, then if we’re coveting a player mid 2nd round, we’ll very likely just trade down to that position instead of taking a guy in the first.

            The only way that scenario makes sense for me, is if we target a mid/late 40s pocket of talent and are willing to drop there — but a talent we can’t refuse drops to us at 32 that we weren’t expecting. I’m guessing that list is pretty short and may be restricted to Evans or Donald. Pretty much any player expected to be around from #20 on is generically indistinguishable from his peers at that range. They are good solid players all. Nothing that dropping 15 picks would change.

            It’s not simply just next years’ first round pick either. That pick has tremendous trade value. Seattle loses the ability to cash in on a talent falling on the board if they trade that pick for a mid 40s talent. And they also lose their best option to trade back into the 2014 draft and acquire additional picks.

            This is a team that covets quantity. And they should too. Because they see talent that you or I don’t see in the 100-150 overall range. There is a quantifiable quality to this FO that we simply cannot fully understand. They take guys we kind of shrug and have no idea who they are. And then half of them turn out to be solid players.

            That unexpected bounty is very consistent. And it’s driven by the ability to trade back. That first round pick factors prominently in that ability to be flexible. This team makes it roster out of guys that we generally don’t know. I’d rather they keep doing what they do, even if the value doesn’t make sense to us on the outside.

            I’d also concede, that if they do make a move like that, it’d be because they see something in these 20th through 50th overall picks that isn’t quantifiable by us on the outside. It’s entirely possible that a couple guys in that range they project will be special at the next level. Not merely solid. Seattle is very flexible that way and when they identify talent they aggressively go for it. They are also judicious in their assessment and don’t just blindly chase the new shiny. They could make this deal, but I don’t see it.

  20. Christon says:

    He is the player I want most that could realistically still be there for us – I’m not sold that Okung, although very talented, should warrant a huge long-term contract. He has missed 15 games in 4 years (and from reports, has off-season surgery scheduled). I do think they have plenty of capable guards and shouldn’t draft one in the early rounds but I believe they could use another capable tackle. If they drafted Bitonio, it will give them quite a bit more flexibility in negotiating Okungs contract in two years. The Seahawks need to continue to be one step a head of the league and I believe this pick would help them do that. There will be quality wide outs there in round two (possibly Richardson, Coleman, Moncrief, Janis, Braynt, Adams or Matthews?) or later (Abbrederis, Hoffman, Norwood, or Huff). By going OL/WR I think you get a better combination. I’m not sold that Coleman is a lock to be gone by the Seahawks day two pick. We have seen plenty of big receivers go early and be disappointments (Jonathan Baldwin and Brian Quick come to mind).

    • Michael says:

      I agree completely with you.

    • AlaskaHawk says:

      I agree also. Plus with Okung’s and Carpenters injury history we need quality backups that can start whenever needed. My as well find that future left tackle now. If Okung stays healthy then it doesn’t harm the team to have a good backup,.

  21. Hawks420 says:

    Hey Rob, thanks for the Bitonio wright-ups. He’s defiantly my favorite OG prospect in the draft now.
    Any thoughts on Seantrel Henderson? Would you like him in the 5th/ 6th round to compete with Bailey/Bowie? I know he’s going late due to all his suspensions (for marijuana) and injury history. He’s so fast latterly and got in great shape last year. He’s the lightest he’s ever played at since high school, at 6-7 331. Looks like a freak of nature.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Henderson struggled to hold down a start at Miami. Loads of physical potential but too many red flags for my liking. His character mark downs are pretty intense.

  22. red says:

    Hi Rob

    Are you familiar with Blake Annen TE UC? On pro day ran 4.4s at 6’5 248 34 inch vert. Sound Luke Willson like.

    • Kenny Sloth says:

      I was watching some tape of his this afternoon and he looks like a really fluid athlete. Doesn’t really pop out on tape, but I’m just gonna wait for a second opinion before I make any conclusions on him.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I am not. Will look into him.

  23. Kenny Sloth says:

    OT: Anybody else taken a look at Calvin Barnett of OK st., yet? This guy’s a raw monster. His best football is gonna come at the next level.

  24. Kenny Sloth says:

    Rob, who are your targets at 64? Is Jarvis Landry there? Does Coleman fall to the bottom of the second?

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think it’s unlikely Coleman will be there. I’d take Landry even with the bad combine. If we go Bitonio at #32 I want a receiver at #64 if possible.

      • Kenny Sloth says:

        Did Coleman’s poor combine trouble you as much as it did me?

        Have you put Will Clarke of WVU under the microscope? He’s got a great, albeit inconsistent, get-off and is great against the run. A bit on the heavy side for a LEO, but the kid can ball. 34 5/8 arms. 6’6. 271. If he dropped 10 lbs. He would be a monster on our line.

        I’m still hoping we get Willie Young from Detroit here on the cheap.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I thought Coleman had a good combine personally. Really looked the part.

          • Kenny Sloth says:

            I didn’t get to watch any drills. Sorry for an uninformed opinion.

          • Matt says:

            Rob- My question about Coleman is would you be so high on him if he was say 6’2″ instead of 6’6″?

            • Rob Staton says:

              To be fair that’s like saying would anyone be as high on Brandin Cooks if he didn’t run a 4.3. The fact is he is 6-6 and that’s a big positive.

              But it’s not his only quality.

            • Jon says:

              I don’t think that is a question that can rightly be answered. a person who is 6’2″ is more compact, likely faster, and more agile than a person who is 6’6″. Part of who Coleman is, is a 6’6″ WR. A 4.6 40 at 6’2″ 210 lbs would be very limiting, where as a 4.6 40 at 6’6″ 225 lbs is actually quite good IMO. You really cant compare apples to oranges as if they are equal parts. I am not saying that a 6’2″ WR is small by any means, but they are 2 very different types of players, and I dont see a need for 6’2″ WR on this team. We allready have 6’1″ 210 lb Kearse on this team who happened to run a 4.43 40 during his draft process.

              • Matt says:

                I see the big play potential from Coleman. He can be an absolute beast in the red zone, which we need. I’m not sold on his COD skills, hands, or his ability to separate at the line of scrimmage(he stands straight up every time off the line). Coleman is a long strider who has deceptive deep speed, but what happens to long striders in press coverage? They’re taken out of the play. This can be fixed somewhat by top notch coaching though. Dude has upside no doubt, but as of right now I only see him being a red zone specialist. There’s the issue of versatility i.e. special teams too. He will not contribute on any of our special teams units. All that said he could prove valuable in certain situations, and I wouldn’t be upset if we got him in the 2nd round. Just thought I’d point out some of his deficiencies to go along with the positives.

                • Jon says:

                  absolutely, and I think the reason he is attractive is simply for being a significant red zone upgrade over what we have. We are very poor in the red zone, and on this team when you can find an area of improvement you take it. I am not against drafting other positions or parts of the game, but Red zone WR may be our biggest need. Oline can certainly be upgraded, and so can Dline with the seemingly probable loss of Bennet. I assume that unless a very specific player falls our round 1 and 2 picks will likely be OL and WR.

      • Kenny Sloth says:

        If Tate resigns, do we still feel obligated to go WO early? We’ve got Kearse in the wings and I have high hopes for Arceto Clark.

        Whose snaps get cut next year when Harvin sees the field more? There are only so many touches and while this is a great problem to have I can’t help but wonder if a second round pick might be put to better use than the leftovers of a WR feeding frenzy.

    • Brik says:

      No way Landry is gonna be there. Coleman quite possibly. My favorite guy who could be there is Allen Robinson out of Penn State. His route running looks superb to me and has some phenomenal elevation. Not sure why Rob doesnt like him. I do see that he needs to block with more attitude but he looks solid in most aspects. Good return man too. I see Brandon Marshall light, less size and strength, but more quickness. I think he can be a #1 WR if he has the heart. Tell me what u think.

      • Kenny Sloth says:

        I think the Brandon Marshall comp is way off base, but I’m pretty high on A-Rob, too.
        We’ve discussed Robinson a bit on here in the past and kind of came to a consensus that he doesn’t display the physical characteristics of a Seahawk. He does have pretty good hops and his route running is a plus.

        He just doesn’t play fast enough on tape. Constantly caught from behind. Still wouldn’t mind picking him up. If the FO believes then I believe.

        • Brik says:

          What I see is that both Marshall and Robinsons main strength is going up to get the ball, also breaks completely free occasionally by great routes. But otherwise yea they dont really compare much. I must see something different with his speed cus I watched 3 game highlights and hes at a different pace then who hes against. More quick than fast. I think he has the potential to gain what he seems to lack physically and if he does that would make him exactly like Marshall to me. Maybe a more apt comparison for right now is Torrey Holt in his earlier years.

  25. Emperor_MA says:

    Noticed something reading your fine article, Rob:

    Those are approaching HOF numbers for Logan Mankins.

  26. Brandon says:

    Ugh, Everson Griffith just signed a 5yr 40 million dollar deal with Vikes. If he’s worth 8 Million a year, how much further does that push Bennett? 10?

    • Colin says:

      Then that means someone besides Seattle will get the pleasure of overpaying. And if that happens, we’ll be keeping Tate.

  27. Matt says:

    $8 mil/year for a part time pass rusher doesn’t sound like a very smart move by Minnesota.
    Agreed Colin.

    • Colin says:

      It’s a really risky proposition. They are essentially betting that they are going to get great production from him and have him on a really good deal relative to his value. Trying to be ahead of the curve.

      But, they also had a situational pass rusher by the name of Ray Edwards who went to Atlanta to be a starter… went bust in no time.

      • Matt says:

        Good point on Edwards. For that $ Griffen needs to get 10+ sacks a year. He’s got the talent to make it happen, but it seems like an awfully big if to invest that amount of $/years.
        The Vikings GM makes some great moves in the positive direction, then counter balances them with poor ones. IMO Makes me all the more thankful to have JS/PC running the show in the PNW!

        • Colin says:

          The Christian Ponder pick is an anchor they must cut themselves free of. Unfortunately for them, Rick Spielman doesn’t have the cajones to do what a John Schneider would do- swallow the pride and release him.

  28. Matt says:

    GM Rick Spielman

  29. Matt says:

    Release or at least flat out bench him. I don’t understand why they resigned Cassel, even though he’s way better than Ponder, when AP flat said he wanted Vick to be a Viking. I guess my point is they’ll never go anywhere with this 2 steps forward 3 steps back approach. Maybe they can squeeze into the playoffs, but that’s the ceiling for them. It’s a shame that Peterson has already played on his best team.

    • John_s says:

      At this stage in their careers, Cassel is a safer, more reliable option for Min than Vick. Vick was in the perfect offense for him with Chip and he couldn’t stay healthy and was a below avg passer.

      MIN is going to run a traditional offense which Vick is no longer suited for.

      Signing Cassel gives MIN the option not to draft a QB in round 1 if they don’t like who’s available. Similar to Jax re-signing Henne.

      As for Spielman, I don’t think he’s a competent GM. His bust rate in the draft is high. He hit on a few 1 rd picks (AP, Percy, Harrison Smith) but his mid to late picks have almost all flamed out leaving the team with an aging core to surround AP.

  30. OlyFrank says:

    Hi Rob,

    What do you think of og. Gabe Jackson, Mississippi State for the Seahawks. What round have you got him predicted for.

    Other potential prospects for Seahawks I would love to hear your opinion on: qb. Connor Shaw, wr. Donte Moncrief, de. Chris Smith, Arkansas, lb. Jordan Tripp, Montana, cb. Louchiez Purifoy, Florida, s. Marqueston Huff, Wyoming.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I’m not a huge Jackson fan. I’d say round three. Decent, yet unspectacular guard. The type that might not see a second contract with the team who drafts him.

      Shaw — worth a flier as an UDFA in camp. Maybe a 7th.

      Moncrief — incredibly frustrating to watch. Should be better than he is. Has all the tools though.

      Smith — I prefer Marcus Smith at Louisville.

      Tripp — not a player I’ve spent any time on, ditto Marqueston Huff.

      Purifoy — much prefer Roberson the other Florida corner.