Will the Seahawks target pass catchers in round two?
This week I wanted to do a mock draft that represented two things:
1 – A run on quarterbacks early in round one
The 2011 and 2012 drafts brought in a new era for the NFL with the rookie pay scale. Instead of contracts worth $60m guaranteed, #1 overall picks were now signing fully guaranteed $22m deals. Since the pay-cap was introduced we’ve seen seven quarterbacks drafted with top-12 picks.
Teams know it’s much less of a gamble these days to chance your arm on a quarterback. To win in this league you need an effective signal caller. The teams picking in the top ten know this because most found out the hard way.
Kansas City had multiple players at the Pro Bowl but finished with the leagues worst record. Why? No quarterback. Drafting Luke Joeckel to replace Branden Albert won’t solve this problem. Andy Reid can’t start off his regime with another year of second-guessing at the position. He has his pick of the group with the #1 pick. While there’s no Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin III out there, he’ll surely identify a quarterback he believes he can win with.
Once the first quarterback leaves the board, others will fall. We could see three or four going early. This is the way the NFL draft appears to be heading. The potential benefit of finding a franchise quarterback far outweighs the gamble of drafting one in the first round.
2 – A run on defensive lineman
We could also see a run on defensive ends and defensive tackles — two positions that’ll probably be quite high on Seattle’s radar. In this weeks mock I have nine defensive line prospects leaving the board before the Seahawks are on the clock.
Last year seven defensive lineman were off the board before the #25 pick despite none going in the top ten. This year we should see multiple early picks.
The Seahawks need to improve the teams pass rush as a priority, but they can’t and almost certainly won’t force the issue. There will come a tipping point when they have to look elsewhere. This could impact how they approach free agency. If a Henry Melton, Randy Starks, Cliff Avril or Osi Umenyiora makes it to the open market, do you start writing cheques? Can you afford to go into the draft knowing if you wait until the 25th pick you could be looking at the tenth best defensive lineman? Or worse?
I like to mix things up with the mocks — offer different suggestions and create debate. I’ve gone in a different direction this week – Khaseem Greene at Rutgers. I’m not the first person to make this projection for the Seahawks in round one, but it is a pick I can see this front office making. Following Leroy Hill’s latest arrest, the WILL linebacker position is going to come into even greater focus. Unless Malcolm Smith is going to be given a full-time starting role, there’s every chance we’ll see another linebacker drafted early by the Seahawks.
It’s hard to pass on players like Zach Ertz, but it could be argued the WILL is a greater need — especially given the emergence of Anthony McCoy as a more consistent performer. Round two is rich with receiver/tight end talent and could be earmarked for a pass catcher. That’s the direction I’ve gone for in this weeks mock.
Greene has exemplary character, the kind of speed this team craves along the front seven and he just looks like a Pete Carroll/John Schneider pick. He’s also one of the best blitzing linebackers I’ve watched for a while, so he could potentially add to the pass rush. Whether you agree he’s worth a first round pick or not, it’s hard not to accept he’s probably going to be on the teams radar.
As always, let me now what you think.
First round
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#1 Matt Barkley (QB, USC) Kansas City needs a quarterback. Barkley should be the first to go. |
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#2 Sharrif Floyd (DT, Florida) Floyd has a ton of upside and could be ranked higher than the edge rushers in this class. |
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#3 Geno Smith (QB, West Virginia) Whether they’re stuck with Carson Palmer this year or not, the Raiders might decide to start planning ahead. |
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#4 Luke Joeckel (T, Texas A&M) Chip Kelly needs to rebuild Philly’s offensive line. |
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#5 Bjoern Werner (DE, Florida State) The Lions could use an edge rusher, especially if they lose Cliff Avril. |
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#6 Dee Milliner (CB, Alabama) The complete cornerback prospect. He deserves to go this early. |
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#7 Mike Glennon (QB, NC State) They need a quarterback. If they can convince themselves Glennon is good enough, they should take him here. |
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#8 Alec Ogeltree (LB, Georgia) Ogletree is a star in the making. |
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#9 Star Lotulelei (DT, Utah) Putting Lotulelei alongside Muhammad Wilkerson and Quinton Coples would give Rex Ryan the three-man front he craves. |
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#10 Sheldon Richardson (DT, Missouri) Prototype three-technique. |
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#11 Eric Fisher (T, Central Michigan) They need to draft a left tackle. |
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#12 Damontre Moore (DE, Texas A&M) If Moore falls a bit he could find a home playing across from Cameron Wake. |
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#13 Desmond Trufant (CB, Washington) The Buccs will likely target cornerbacks early. |
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#14 Johnathan Hankins (DT, Ohio State) He’s a space eater, not a pass rusher. I’m not a big fan. Others are. |
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#15 Barkevious Mingo (DE, LSU) The Saints need a pass rusher for their new 3-4 defense. |
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#16 Chance Warmack (G, Alabama) Jeff Fisher does a ‘Gangnam Style’ dance if this happens. |
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#17 Kevin Minter (LB, LSU) This could be Pittsburgh’s biggest need. |
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#18 Ziggy Ansah (DE, BYU) He’d make a great power end to compliment DeMarcus Ware. |
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#19 Kawann Short (DT, Purdue) The Giants like drafting solid, productive defensive lineman. |
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#20 Lane Johnson (T, Oklahoma) Unless they go the free agency route, this is Chicago’s priority. |
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#21 Dion Jordan (DE, Oregon) A possible replacement for Michael Johnson who could depart? |
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#22 Kenny Vaccaro (S, Texas) Sparky safety prospect that would fit like a glove in St. Louis. |
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#23 Jonathan Cooper (G, North Carolina) Cooper will be be a staple in the league for 10+ years. |
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#24 Cordarrelle Patterson (WR, Tennessee) An enigma who could go top-15 quite easily. |
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#25 Khaseem Greene (LB, Rutgers) Converted safety prospect who looks like a John Schneider draft pick. |
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#26 Zach Ertz (TE, Stanford) This would be a great replacement for Jermichael Finley. |
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#27 Jonathan Jenkins (DT, Georgia) Would they consider adding some size up front? |
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#28 DeAndre Hopkins (WR, Clemson) Peyton Manning would love this guy. |
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#29 Jarvis Jones (DE, Georgia) The spinal stenosis issue could lead to a fall. Someone will take a shot. |
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#30 Eddie Lacy (RB, Alabama) An ideal replacement for the ageing Michael Turner. |
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#31 Manti Te’o (LB, Notre Dame) Tough shoes to fill, but the Ravens often look for value in round one. |
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#32 Xavier Rhodes (CB, Florida State) Big, physical cornerback. |
Second round
#33 Jacksonville – Jesse Williams (DT, Alabama) – Gus Bradley’s answer to Red Bryant
#34 Kansas City – Tyler Eifert (TE, Notre Dame) – Andy Reid grabs a tight end
#35 Philadelphia – Barrett Jones (C, Alabama) – further strengthens the o-line
#36 Detroit – Matt Elam (S, Florida) – this would be good value for the Lions
#37 Cincinnati – Arthur Brown (LB, Kansas State) – could’ve been an option at #25
#38 Arizona – D.J. Fluker (T, Alabama) – they have to get a tackle after grabbing the QB
#39 New York Jets – Stepfan Taylor (RB, Stanford) – fills a big need
#40 Tennessee – Larry Warford (G, Kentuck) – rising after the Senior Bowl
#41 Buffalo – Tyler Wilson (QB, Arizona) – the Bills might have to trade up to get Wilson
#42 Miami – Sylvester Williams (DT, North Carolina) – possible Randy Starks replacement?
#43 Tampa Bay – Gavin Escobar (TE, San Diego State) – he’s good enough to go here
#44 Carolina – Johnthan Banks (CB, Mississippi State) – another big corner
#45 San Diego – Keenan Allen (WR, California) – not quite as good as many believe
#46 St. Louis – Robert Woods (WR, USC) – much better than many believe
#47 Dallas – Travis Frederick (C, Wisconsin) – a big need in Dallas
#48 Pittsburgh – John Simon (DE, Ohio State) – looks and plays like a Steelers’ pass rusher
#49 New York Giants – Sam Montgomery (DE, LSU) – questionable worth ethic
#50 Chicago – Dallas Thomas (G, Tennessee) – underrated
#51 Washington – Phillip Thomas (S, Fresno State) – big time playmaker
#52 Minnesota – Alex Okafor (DE, Texas) – worth a shot here
#53 Baltimore – Menelik Watson (T, Florida State) – incredible athletic qualities
#54 Cincinnati – Giovanni Bernard (RB, North Carolina) – do-it-all running back
#55 Seattle – Justin Hunter (WR, Tennessee) – down year + bad injury hurts his stock
#56 Green Bay – Oday Aboushi (T, Virginia) – can start quickly
#57 Miami – Markus Wheaton (WR, Oregon State) – could be another Mike Wallace
#58 Houston – Justin Pugh (T, Syracuse) – big tackle who could convert to guard
#59 San Francisco – Jordan Poyer (CB, Oregon State) – playmaker
#60 New England – Tavon Austin (WR, West Virginia) – size is bothersome
#61 Atlanta – Jordan Reed (TE, Florida) – athletic, pass-catching receiver
#62 Denver – Blidi Wreh-Wilson (CB, Connecticut) – good size/speed combo
FINALLY a mock that has us taking a LB. Though the only way this happens (both round 1 and 2) is if we take care of the DT position via free agency.
Once again, probably another draft where I shake my head and cry at the first round, then wind up giggling like a schoolgirl a year later at what PC/JS did in the following four rounds.
As long as they pick from: LB, TE, DL, WR, I don’t think I will be upset at all. However, if they go outside of those positions that the team so obviously needs to upgrade to be elite, I’ll be kind of frustrated. If it’s one of those positions, regardless of whether I’ve heard of the player, I’ll trust PCJS that they know what they’re doing.
They could even pick elsewhere and I wouldn’t be unhappy. What if Cooper (guard) falls to us somehow? What if there’s a great CB they can replace Trufant with?
Um would they really take green over Arthur brown still on the board I thought brown was supposed to be the better prospect… Is this just you spit balling ideas rob or has Greene risen in your eyes
I think Greene ‘could’ go in this range absolutely. I like Arthur Brown, but there is some concern about how he struggled to settle at the WILL in Miami.
Thanks rob for providing additional insight…. If Carroll called you and asked brown or Greene what would you say ?
I’d say… “Give me a job Pete and I’ll tell you the answer.” 🙂
Savvy
I looked it up and Khaseem Greene’s arm length is listed at only 31 7/8. That doesn’t really seem in line with Bobby Wagner and KJ Wright. Could that be a deterrent for JS/PC? Also could someone like Sio Moore be a target for the Seahawks?
It could be. They like length.
This would be very frustrating if it came out this way. I would be screaming at the TV watching them take Greene over Ertz/Hopkins/A. Brown, and then even more disappointed in R2 when they go Hunter while Wheaton is still on the board.
Also Rob, I think you accidentally called Eric Fisher at #11 Lane Johnson.
The thing I’m trying to work out about Greene is, just how many teams have the combination of scheme and position need where he fits. This could be a situation where he drops because teams can’t find a place for him. Then again, he fits Seattle’s needs perfectly, and PC/JS might decide to pull the trigger in the first round rather than risk his not being there in the second. I could live with that.
I’ve seen Greene scouted and mocked by a Texans draft blog post as him playong an ILB position n their 3-4 with their first round pick so he might fit a 3-4 team too.
I think he’s a good enough player that a smart team, even 3-4, will draft him in the second rd and start him day 1. He comes across as a guy who fits into any team.
Love the selections today. Would prefer Wheaton over Hunter if they are both there, but it’s personal preference.
I agree about the thoughts regarding Ertz. While it would be nice to add more weapons to our offense, there are plenty of pass catching options on Day 2 or 3. Jordan Reed from Florida or Gavin Escobar from San Diego State are good players that will fill the role of dual TE threats. We already have some good blocking options in McCoy, and upon reflection I don’t think there is a need to splurge unless Ertz blows them away.
With regards to Greene or Brown at #25 – I personally like Greene better, because he’s pretty damn good at coverage (which is rare for a OLB). His experience at SS will help provide a safety net over the middle. Brown’s advantage is mainly his speed, and is equally solid in run support. Both would be good picks.
My only concern with the draft currently unfolding the way it has – LB in R1, WR in R2 – will force us to probably count on an interior DL in Round 3 and later. There are a pletra of options for interior pass rush – Datone Jones, Chris Jones and Jordan Hill are all late picks – but I prefer to not have our hand forced late. Likewise, I have faith that Malcolm Smith, Mike Morgan or Korey Toomer can fill in admirably at least for a season or two. Finally, there are some options at FA – Keith Rivers, Rey Maualuga that can also hold the position off.
If the draft scenario does go as you expect, then my dream would be having someone trade up for Ertz (and believe me, there will be a market for him) so that we can get more draft picks and double up on our two main concerns: offensive weapons and defensive pass rush. If no one bites, than I’m fine with these two.
Rivers and Maualuga are both awful, though.
Personally I’m a big fan of Greene, I’ve watched a ton of film of him on and off the field and I believe he is a team leader and would simply be stellar at WILL on our team. Quinn could use him in so many blitz packages, and O’ yes he can blitz. But in this scenario I wonder if we would really pass up on Jarvis Jones.
I saw a mock draft where only 1 QB was taken in round 1 and all the other teams got their QB in round two and three…..it was not looking good at #25. I think if panned out that way we might just end up trading down.
The 49ers won’t win the Super Bowl 🙂
Other than that, great mock.
: )
Funny how they always talk about Kaep’s speed and Wilson only gets the ” scrambler ” phrase. Kaep’s 40 time is 4.50, Wilson’s is 4.55.
…and no offense to Kaep, but Wilson looks way more natural doing it! Wilson’s shortness may end up being his best feature in that, he is such a solid guy, not ‘lanky’ at all! RG3 and Kaep are both ‘lanky’, and I guarantee that will matter big time long term. Just look what happened to RG3 in his first year!?!
He may have all ready hurt his potential with a pretty serious injury. (the LCL being torn for his 2nd time)
I have seen Kaep take some hits, but Wilson, being o former baseball player, and being such a compact and thick guy, save the day for him. I predict he will not be injured very much at all. Even with the ‘scrambling’ feature they talk about.
Wilson will out last and out perform both of these ‘speedy’ QBs… No doubt
No doubt. Man I am so tired of seeing Kaep every time I turn on the TV. Go Ravens!
So much flexibility with KJ. Draft Jones and dirtier it out later. The guy is a game changer
Rob, would you take Hunter over Wheaton if it was you? Or is that because you know PC/JS are wanting a taller guy?? Just curious…
I know you aren’t that up on Tavon Austin cause of his size, but would you take him if Hunter and Wheaton with the rest were gone??
It’s just hard for me not to like a guy that had 2,100 yards in total offense in 1 year. I know it’s college, and maybe he needs some special plays, but is there NO way you see him making the Seahawks a much more potent offense?? He can replace Leon also if we trade him…
He is a lot like Reggie Bush- a guy without a natural scheme fit or position. This also leads to the Ted Ginn issue; you can’t justify drafting him in the first just to be a special teams player and run the occasional gadget play for him.
I’m not saying he wouldn’t work out, just that they would have to know beforehand how they would use him in the offense. And that’s harder to do for such a unique player than it is for a guy that naturally fits their offensive philosophy.
What I don’t get is, Austin is 5-9. That’s only 1 inch shorter than both Tate AND Baldwin, so why is he THAT different. He lines up, runs a play, catches the ball, runs after the catch and either scores or gets tackled.
Why is there such a downer on this guy for being 5-9! Yes he is light also at 174, but a pro style regime could prob add 10-15 pounds muscle…so say 190 – Thats 12 pounds less than BOTH Tate and Baldwin…
So I am now at a loss WHY REALLY this guy is any different than any other skilled player.
He had 2,100 total yards… That’s not on gadget plays…not at all. He is a WR, RB, KR/PR… That’s it.
We should have learnt from Russell Wilson on this one now… Not trying to convince anyone he is our BEST option, but I truly don’t think the size ‘issue’ is an issue… Just watch his tape… Boy can play’
…and for jamming him at the line of scrimmage… just put him in motion…
It’s not just height.
The Seahawks want their receivers to win jump balls and play the sideline. Golden Tate can do that despite his lack of height. Percy Harvin is another guy who can do this despite a lack of stature.
Austin is more of an open space player.
When I say gadget plays I mean what he will do at the NFL level.
Look at the Jets with Tebow. Tebow wasn’t a gadget player in college, but the Jets only used him in the Wildcat this year. using a first on Austin and then bringing him in only to run a few plays like that per game would be stupid. Even his proponents would say so, I imagine.
I am not saying he would be a bad pick, but he would require a different plan than they use for their other receivers, and they would have to have than plan delineated before they picked him.
Man, stupid? I think this is being over thought. Just watch the game of him in the orange bowl, or the one against Oklahoma #12, or TCU. This guy needs to be thought of as a Ray Rice / Sproles type player. We see how well the read zone option works with Lynch, imagine mixing that up with a ‘change up back’ that runs like this guy! Did you watch the tape? He makes people miss like rainbows shine color… Not to mention his KR/PR ability.
Put him in the slot, normally, keep Tate and Rice outside (or whatever FA/Drafted WR we might have) and watch the magic happen! This guy makes HUGE plays not here and there, but multiple times a game… If he had even 10 plays, but broke 2-3 a game, plus the PR/KR, he would be huge! I would say even more so than a BIG WR. Why? Because we CAN use him in the pistol and out of the backfield… Multi looks confuses Defenses… and because I trust RW so much, to bring a cocky thunderbolt type guy like this in, is exactly what would make our offense over the top explosive…
Lynch, Turbin, Austin… Such a radical mix that it would be taxing on the defenses… ware them out!
After watching the tape again…if you haven’t then please do before commenting based on his ‘size’ stuff… I want him on MY team, not on anothers… Can anyone say they see a more DYNAMIC player out there? Cordarelle is good, but doesn’t look like this. I think just like RW, his low center of gravity, not to mention his 4.3 speed, make him a hard target for the ever bigger NFL defenders…
Just saying…show me someone MORE dynamic for multiple roles…
Kerwynn Williams, Marquise Goodwin, Ace Sanders. Three guys who are essentially the same thing, available in the mid/late rounds. I like the small speedsters as much as you, but they are mid round picks for a reason.
You also have Chris Rainey out there with no job.
I’d like the Hawks to get either one, because it would add a dimension to this offense. But you can get that guy almost anywhere and let another team use a first or second on Austin, if they like. But Hawks system needs size AND speed, which is a more rare commodity.
As for the Read option with Austin… The read option for a RB is primarily inside runs. Austin is fantastic in space, not so much in a physical inside run.
This is where we implement special run plays for Austin.. now if the offense is already wanting to expand the read option game to do more of what WAS does then Austin might do some awesome things… if not, I dont think he would fit in the current seahawk RO scheme.
I really think we have two guys who are best suited for the Slot. Tate and Baldwin. We dont need a third. What we do need is someone who can play Tates position and move him to the slot where he can utilize his play making ability in space. We need a burner or a physical receiver that runs great routes. Austin would be a luxury pick in an area we already have depth.. vs an area we are so thin we play Tate there ( the Z sideline WR spot). Im not saying Tate doesnt do fine there. Im saying he would be best utilized in the slot.
true, but what a back like that gives you is more anticipation and magnifying defensive player’s tendency to overcompensate. You’d basically be gaining yet another step on a front 7 that is already flat footed in their efforts to see where the ball is. It would be a nice complimentary piece but not worth a 1st round pick. As awesome as Sproles is, for example, he was a 4th rounder. There are a slew of players who are fast/quick but not prototypical size. No need to get it Nordstroms what you can find at Target, essentially. And touches would be limited. Same reason Leon Washington has so few touches; it’s just not something this offense wants to do a lot.
a 6’3″ or 6’4″ WR would be much more valuable. But I also think those values are to be had in the mid rounds as well. I’m betting the first three picks for Seattle are defense.
The problem is not that he’s short, but having that many sub-six foot receivers becomes problematic from a roster standpoint. He would be redundant.
I would grade Wheaton higher but I do think they’ll want to take a bigger target.
I’ve seen this put out there a lot. But I’ve never read any first hand account that attributes size as something they covet. I’m wondering if that’s just something that was inferred enough times to become gospel?
It just seems that difference in quality between DeAndre Hopkins to Justin Hunter is so much more pronounced than the difference in quality from Khaseem Greene to Arthur Brown Jr (if there even is any).
As was said before, I’m pretty sure I’m going to feel like throwing my beer mug through the TV when our pick is called, because it’ll be some guy that has been mocked for months as a second round pick. And then I’ll wonder how in the world they were able to get such quality from ‘just a guy’ prospects on the Saturday speed draft rounds.
It could definitely be worse. A lot worse.
Question for the masses: Are there any veteran LB players that could be had in a swap picks + veteran deal like we made with Washington and Clemons. It just seems that taking a LB in R1 is a very low quality return.
It is something that has been inferred from Pete Carroll’s track record going back to USC. BMW was one of Pete’s best players at SC. And since he’s been with the Seahawks, the trend has continued. Kris Durham is 6’4″, so is Sidney Rice and Braylon Edwards too. Terrell Owens is 6’3″. We pursued Brandon Marshall and Vincent Jackson. I think that track record speaks for itself.
Lane Johnson is in there twice. I think the first photo corresponds to Eric Fisher 🙂
Yes that is correct.
I loved this mock! I really enjoyed how you put Sharrif Floyd at #2 overall! Keep up the good work!
Btw, I think this draft class is awesome! There is so much depth!
Hmm definitely interesting. I haven’t watched much outside of the D Line, so that’s really all i know so far. Lotulelei not going 2 overall would be criminal …. just imagine what the Seahawks could do with him. He could play anything other than the LEO in all our looks. 3 spots along the line in base and be dominant at any of them. I think Bradley will recognize that versatility during a rebuild. Having a guy you can plug in wherever you are weakest and have it become a strength would be nice. I think Richardson still has a very slight edge on Sharrif based on technique as Sharrif doesn’t have a developed repertoire of moves. He just seems like he really wants to get into the backfield and kinda turns sideways or backwards and forces himself through which seems like it might lend it self to problems against the run as far as gap responsibilities at the next level.
Werner is a monster and I like that you have Moore falling. He has been overrated for a while now … a little slow off the snap, haven’t seen really any moves other than the speed rush which isn’t that fast, he has good power and leverage, but I think his stat line is a product more of opportunity and scheme than technique and ability.
I like Hankins and I really like Mingo. Hankins may be in about the right spot and I think he offers more push and penetration than the average space eater, which IMO is what John Jenkins is. Someone is going to really luck out if there is a run on QB’s earlier and Mingo slides. He is what I imagine PC’s dream LEO looks like with the length and speed.
I think Short is still a bit undervalued and if Carolina doesn’t switch to a 3-4, Short would be a much better fit than Hankins. I think Short could play 1 or 3-tech in the 4-3. Ansah I just have no idea what to think of other than he should never be lined up at NT in the 3-4, which BYU did to him constantly. Good power and leverage, great physique, but I don’t see this world-beater speed. He might as well not have hands because he doesn’t use them other than to get locked up with someone at the LOS and bull-rush or try to kinda toss them to one side. All-in-all, not impressed with the 4 games that I watched and based on that I think he should be relegated back to the end of round 1 as some kind of luxury flyer.
Dion Jordan looks the part but I see nothing in his game that impresses me. Only watched 1 game so far, but he looked like a mid 2nd rounder to me that you hope you can coach up into an edge rusher.
As for the Seahawks, you have them passing on Sylvester Williams which is interesting because you’ve been pretty high on him all year. What caused you to reconsider? I kind of agree with it as I think maybe the Hawks need someone a little more explosive than Sylvester to replace Branch at 3-tech, but I don’t think I would lose any sleep over it.
Lotulelei isn’t really good as a pass rusher at the moment, though. He has the talent to get better, but right now he isn’t on the same level (or anywhere close, honestly) as Ndamukong Suh was coming out of college.
“Make the bad man stop”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co-NvKnZzvw
That’s his USC tape if you haven’t seen it. He’s lined up at NT or 1-tech throughout and there are a couple things to note here. Obviously he dominates almost every single one on one he’s in, collapsing the pocket from the inside like no one else in this draft, but a lot of times he is asked to two gap. Many times it’s not that he couldn’t get past his guy, he’s not supposed to because he is responsible against the run for both lanes between the guards. On the plays where he is trying to penetrate he is the first out of his stance and really only uses a bullrush, but it seems to be working out alright. Would like to see him develop a swim move or something at the next level.
Another thing to note is how much pressure is coming from the outside. The answer is “what pressure from the outside?” Utah was led in sacks by their DE with 6. Lotulelei had 5 as the NT. If any legit pass rush had been present on the outside Barkley can’t just drop back 5 yards and sit there. The pocket he was throwing from was so clean that I can’t even call it a pocket.
I think that Lotulelei was a monster on a bad defense. That and being a NT are what hurt his sack total. If you put this guy at 3-tech and told him to get to the passer through one lane lined up next to a guy who’s only trying to get around the edge, I don’t think he has a problem beasting through there.
We seem to be arguing at cross purposes over this fantasy world in which we were able to draft him.
I think he is fantastic at doing all the stuff you mention. I also think that he is a WAY better run stuffer than pass rusher. In the video you yourself link to he makes a ton of plays at the line but doesn’t get much pressure despite being single blocked most of the game.
I’m not saying he isn’t worthy of a top 3 pick. I’m saying that he would be a way better fit for other teams than he would be for the Seahawks. Which is why he won’t last until 25 anyway.
Just an FYI, I believe Khaled Holmes was playing on one leg that game. For as great as Lotulelei can be, he completely disappears for large portions of a game. That said, a debate is futile as he’s not a realistic option for us.
I think the QBs early is very likely although I think it will be Geno Smith. It would be tough to watch them pass on Ertz in this scenario.
Rob, I appreciate that you mix up your mocks and cant wait to read them on Wednesdays. Do you really believe the Hawks would go WLB in R-1 or is this just a new look mock? If it was Ogletree RUN to the podium but wouldnt the WLB be just a 1 and 2 down player coming out for the nickle? Why spend a R-1 pick on a part time player, we did that last year. It seems that JS could get that guy later say the 4th round or so + we have Toomer who could be the man already…I am loyal to your opinions and it seems that recently you and Kip both down on Greene, 3rd round material I think Kip said. Has something changed your opinion on Greene?
If the draft played out exactly like this and Jones checked out fine (he probably wouldnt be sitting there), wouldnt Jones add more to our team than Greene? Either way I still want TE Ertz in R-1 if we cant get Floyd.
If we picked up Melton/Starks I would love this mock.
“#46 St. Louis – Robert Woods (WR, USC) – much better than many believe”
That’s an understatement.
Barkley #1 overall? obviously clueless.
Obviously, because you have all the answers.
Wow dick move by Tora. I guess everyone who doesnt share Tora’s opinions are clueless. Ignorance can be nauseating
You guys will love this mock from our friends at Fieldgulls.com that was posted today. It will amaze you who he picks for the Hawks but after reading the article on why this guy it gave me a whole new perspective on R-1. Some of you will love this his reasoning on this player…Rob, what do you think?
http://www.fieldgulls.com/nfl-draft/2013/1/30/3880970/matts-mock-draft-first-edition-the-seahawks-draft-a-tight-end
I think that’s a little high for Reed. Undoubted physical potential, but also a lot of parts to his game that lack refinement.
That’s a lot of TE’s and WR’s going in that first round….doesn’t even look remotely realistic
Rob, Love the mocks and I’m usually liking your picks and the reasoning behind them in all different situations but I’m lost in this one bro. Greene over brown? With his range, speed, and coverage skills I just don’t ever see the hawks letting him slip past us. And no te in rd 2? With rice Tate and Baldwin set as 1,2,3 I would think Seattle would go TE in 2nd round if they don’t go DT first. Unless they pull out all the stops and persuade Melton or starks to come west I don’t see us not drafting a DT rd 1.
Also with osi and Michael Johnston becoming free agents who would be your pick if Seattle signed one to replace Clem?
Not Rob here, but there’s no question you take Michael Johnson as long as he doesn’t cost an arm and a leg.
Cliff Avril and Michael Johnson are probably better options than Osi, but they’ll be more expensive.
If they really want Greene, I would hope that they trade done to the top of the second before picking him up. I would have no problem with this IF they get a pass rusher in FA. I trust Pete but I would be squirming if they pass on Zach Ertz in this situation.
After seeing Russell at the Pro Bowl dropping soft, easy, accurate TD passes to big, tall receivers like Fitz and Vincent Jackson, it’s hard to not want to draft a WR of a similar type. Give Russell another high quality weapon, he’ll make our offense top 5. If we’re sitting at 25 with all the quality DTs off the board, I think I want a WR. A big and tall WR.
I doubt they go LB in round 1. They have Ken Norton Jr as coach. They’ve been able to find quality LB talent in the later rounds. 2nd round Wagner is great. I would prefer a first round WR if no DTs of value are on the board for us. A guy around 6’3″ with long arms, strong hands, and the ability to track the ball and go up and get it. Unstoppable in the red zone with a guy like that.
Looks like you want Keenan Allen then.
I totally agree with you Simmons. I know it’s just the probowl and defenses are not as tight as in a real game but still you could see the distinct benefit Russell was enjoying from having high quality targets. I think its a real easy thing for homers to over value the talent they already have. I’m a Portlander and believe me, we do it with our Trailblazers all the time. I think that all of our receivers are good athletes but none of them are stellar at making separation, Baldwin has serious issues catching with his body instead of hands at times (or not catching at all) and when you consider the angles at play with Russell being shorter, having to throw over linemen at times, having a better large target only makes geometric sense. I do think that of all the positions though that WR needs could easily be met without drafting that position early. There are big, fast targets available in all rounds so while I would love to have a Keenan, a Corderelle, or a DeAndre, I also would be perfectly content filling defensive needs on the first day and pulling in players like Da’Rick R., A. Mellette, Marquess W., B. Kaufman, or R. Smith in later rounds
I think the big, pass catching Joker TE is more likely at 25 than the available receivers.
Ertz, Reed, Austin would be my R1 preference… For some reason I like Tavon Austin…watching his tape, he is just so damn dynamic! He makes good players on good teams look like children… I think he would have at least 3-4 big plays every game. Esp in the KR/PR dept… Then we can trade Leon with Flynn, save cap space, sign a badass DE that we know can play in the NFL like Avril/Kruger/Osi, and get a Joker TE and another big WR later in 3-4…
We would be very hard to beat!
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/cfb/131315/kenny-vaccaro
“Russ Lande of the National Football Post suggests Texas S Kenny Vaccaro could be a top-five pick in April’s NFL Draft.
“Everybody has him in the top ten,” Lande said. “He’s a ball-hawking safety that can come up and hit and tackle. He’s the real deal. I wouldn’t be shocked if Detroit — if there’s no elite pass-rusher there — Detroit at No. 5 may take him. He’s really good.” A first-team All-Big 12 pick in both 2011 and 2012, Vaccaro amassed 107 tackles as a senior and recorded five career interceptions. Jan 25 – 8:31 PM”
Vaccaro should probably go higher in future SDB mocks. Sounds like he’s this year’s Mark Barron.
Good stuff Kip! I really hope he is a high pick, at least top 24 that is. The more Safeties, Offensive Lineman, QB’s and Cornerbacks that go ahead of us the better!
I don’t agree with that proposal at all, but we’ll see what happens. Lande has come out with some pretty ‘out there’ stuff so far. Think he had EJ Manuel and/or Ryan Nassib in the top ten.
Lande also rated Alameda Ta’amu as a top 10 pick.
Isn’t he a free agent now? I’d be down to see him in camp!
I think it’s very likely when draft day comes we see a DE in the first.
Wow big fall for margus hunt. I really can’t see someone with his measurables sliding that far. After he tears up the combine someone will fall hard for him. I’d prefer him at 25 or even at 55 over hunter. It comes down to value for Pc/JS. With a dozen picks to play with and good depth already at most positions I think they could be ready to move up to grab the one player that really fills a need. Mingo???
Many think Mingo is HIGHLY overrated. Personally I believe we really need to sign Jason Jones for another short contract, maybe 2 years.
What if CB Milliner fell to us at #25? Crazy things happen on draft day. I get the feeling someone unexpected will fall our way.
He’s such a complete player for his position I can’t see him getting past Tampa Bay at #13. That’s the worst case scenario for Milliner.
I would still take Sylvester Williams over Greene even though we will most likely part ways with Le Roy Hill. I think he has worn out his welcome in Seattle. As for round two, Hunter would be a nice addition but personally I think Da’Rick Rodgers has the same skills sets as Justin Hunter. I would like to see how he measures out for the combine but he offers the same skill sets as Hunter and will probably be available round three due to his personnel problems. With the Round two we address the LB positions and that could be anyone from (Ogletree, Brandon Jenkins, Khaseem Greene to Gerald Hodges of Penn State.
One thing I definitely do not see is Matt Barkley going number 1. Secondly, the risk is too high for most QB’s with that said teams will still reach.
Clayton.
My opinion is we draft DT followed by / OLB/WR or WR/OLB depending on whats available. After that I would say finding a solid RT as we could still improve on the OL. Jordan Reed could also be an option for those looking at the TE position but he will surely be gone no later then the 3rd round.
Adam Schefter noted recently that Barkley will probably be the first QB off the board despite everything that’s been said. I completely agree with that, it’s just a case of how high he goes IMO. And KC are only the worst team in the NFL this year because of the QB situation.
Rob, I really think we are gonna need to sign a one year “band-aid” LEO while Clemons recovers from his ACL tear. One name that has been brought up on this list is Osi Umenyiora, which makes sense as I believe the Seahawks have shown an interest in him in the past. However, if Osi does not end up a Seahawk, who else do you think the FO could go after?
I like Cliff Avril, but he will be somewhat expensive and would be more of a replacement for Clemons rather than a cheap placeholder. If we did want to replace Clemons I would love to sign Michael Johnson, but he would probably be even more expensive than Avril, assuming the Bengals don’t just franchise him.
So with those guys presumably out of the running, I was thinking that Dwight Freeney could be an option. Sure he is even older than Osi, but I think he still has the speed, and would probably welcome a move back to playing in a 4 man front. He is so damn small that I always wondered how he managed to be effective as a 4-3 DE and that makes wonder if he isn’t perfectly suited to a LEO type role . Since we hopefully would only need him to stay fresh and healthy for half a season or so, his age might not be a huge factor. Plus maybe he could try and teach Bruce Irvin that patented spin move of his. Lord knows Bruce needs to add some kind of move to his arsenal… What do you think?
It might need to be more than a band aid. For example, if Clemons can’t go next year you’re paying a premium salary for no production plus hoping that he can still bring it in the year he turns 33. It might be time to start planning for the future, and that could mean a shorter term 2-year deal for Osi, or it could mean a 3-4 year deal for Avril. Both players appear to fit the criteria.
Rob, can they cut Clemons? Would it help/hurt our cap space?
If we go after an Avril / Johnson, would you see Seattle dropping Clemons even after his steady production?
Bought to be 33… hmmm
What would you do?
From Davis Hsu, the Seahawks will only be on the hook for 1.5M if Clemons is cut. Currently, Clemons is schedule to take 8.2M of the Cap in 2013 and 9.7M in 2014 (which I don’t think will be lasting that long).
If the Seahawks do feel the need to cut Clemons, the most optimal time would be after the 2013 season, where the Seahawks will only have 2.2M of dead money. Freeing up a possibility of 10+ M (especially if Clemons does continue his sack totals) will definitely be regulated to signing back in-house players like ET, Baldwin or Sherm.
More info: http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/7/31/3207706/details-of-chris-clemons-contract-examined
Good info Mike… If we wanted to, and went after Avril or Kruger or Johnson, I see us cutting Clemons and putting that cash into our new FA DE…
Otherwise I guess we would have to hit big in the draft at DE to let him go, even with the injury…
Tricky times for our D-line!
Great stuff Mike. Thank you.
I like the mix of this mock, Rob. My only contention this time around is DeAndre Hopkins to Denver. I live out here in Denver, and the Broncos would love DeAndre Hopkins, but are in a weird spot where the can not draft BPA and have to address need. And need for them is an Eddie Lacy type RB, and realistically a FS/SS/CB, then maybe a TE….the only reason why I bring this up is that you have sold me on a Wilson to Hopkins combo platter, and I think Khaseem Greene cold be had in the Second round.
Also what if anything do you make of anything of the word that a Seahawks scout was talking to Jonathan Jenkins at the Senior Bowl? Due Diligence from the front office? I know he would be out of position on paper for the Hawks scheme, but with his speed and size, next to Mebane, I think you could have the pocket collapsing force Pete Carrol needs…
I’d assume it is just diligence. I don’t see him and Mebane and him in the middle changing our pass rush issues. Need a true 3 tech.
Maybe, but Rob Rang made a quick note about his ability to play in a traditional 4-3 and 3-4, as well as massive length, leverage, and most importantly, being the fastest d-linemen at the senior bowl, granted it’s just the seniors and not all available talent, but if you are picking late in the rounds maybe you think outside the box a bit…who knows, every week Rob has a new dude that I think would be perfect and every week the larger pundits start scooting that guy forward….
I see Denver taking Phillip Thomas. The dude can play FS, SS and even cover slot receivers. Serious ball hawk, too.
I would rather see us go a different direction in the 1st, especially with Ertz and Hopkins on the board. I dont think Greene is a good value in the first when you can draft Arthur Brown or Jelani Jenkins in a later round.
In my mind, if you don’t require pass rush skills from your OLB, there isn’t much separating these 3 prospects. And Jenkins might have an inside track with the Florida connection.
I’m not a proponent of drafting a WILL in the first three rounds. I just don’t think that position carries its weight in the Carroll’s defensive scheme. Obviously pass rush is very important, that is where I expect them to go. They have tried to get an explosive DL in past drafts that could maintain gap control and penetrate…Scruggs, Jaye Howard, come to mind. It takes a great athlete to do this. I think JS\PC are done drawing straws in the later rounds trying to find this player. I expect them to trade up 8-10 spots throwing Flynn and a 3-4 round pick on the table on draft day. Ansah i think is a target, as is Moore, Star, and Mingo, Richardson, and Ogletree, depending on how the chips fall(Clemons career is all but over due to injury and age that why i project DE’s along with 3 tech). If not i could see them drafting the safety from Texas if he falls in the first and they don’t trade up, and moving Kam into the Will. Flynn will be gone come draft day, this is too deep of a draft to not sell your back up qb to a team that balks at the weak quarterback class and decides they can wait one more year for the prospect.
Sweet! Another SDB mock. Ate it up, raised questions/conversation. Good job Rob. Am I reading into this too much that while this is exploring a likely possibility, if this did fell this way, wouldn’t you prefer the Hawks taking Ertz here too?
I would prefer Ertz for sure.
If Ertz gets taken, it looks like Jordan Reed is an in between TE/WR type guy that is super fast and would cause matchup problems all over the field…
Rob and others, would that type of TE/WR combo weapon, like an Aaron Hernandez, be our best TE choice?
Reed isn’t as good a blocker as Miller/McCoy, but we have both of those guys to block…
Curious… or Kelce, or Escobar if in R2 still?
Reed just sounds dangerous… add him to DangeRuss, and BOOM – Explosive power!
Yeah a H-back type who can play in the slot, find room in behind the linebackers. Not a prototype big tight end, but a guy who can do a bit of blocking but is more of a big, athletic receiver.
With our “NEW” defense coach coming back from a short stint in Florida he will again give Pete and John an inside perspective on S. Floyd, Jordan Reed and Jelani Jenkins. I would not mind adding any of these players as they all add certain skill sets to improve the team. The Offense still needs a number 1 Receiver and although Miller and McCoy can provide some offense with their catching abilities, Jordan Reed would soften up any zone defense he encounters. The defense is still the area of most concern as we could not consistently pressure the QB when it mattered most and having a DT/OLB and DE that can provide that rush will be a plus. If Scruggs and Howard can develop that is a huge bonus. Finding a Right Tackle could also provide a little more depth. If we are able to trade Flynn for a mid to high 3rd round pick that could help address these positions.
What if we traded Flynn/Leon W. to a team in the top 10 of the draft for them to ‘swap’ their 2nd, 3rd, 5th round picks…not loss them, just trade up in those rounds like 15-20 places depending on the team… would that sound good to you??
Choosing earlier in each round would be better than ‘more’ picks…we all ready have a solid roster, so let’s move up and get the best value and talent with each round…IMO
I might add last year when we were all talking qb and how much we wanted Barkley this year though he’d be a #1 lock, you said then that there’s always a chance his draft stock could drop and he might be more available. Year later, he could be the #1 but you sound pretty smart now since there’s so much back and forth on his draft value from 1st to god knows where. Pretty sweet that you were likely right but that the Hawks are set at that position. We’ve come a long way from a year ago.
Do you think Markus Wheaton is not a fit on this team, or something, because you’ve passed on him several times
I will be angry if we pass up Wheaton in the 2nd. Inconsolable 😀
Not sure he would make it to our 2nd R pick, but if he does, heck yes!!!
Rob: I know you’ve said previously that there wasn’t much tape yet on him, but I’ve been reading some draft pundits say they ‘guarantee’ TE Vance McDonald will go in the early 2nd round. Apparently, he was uncoverable at the senior bowl practices and he is going to light up the combine with his intangibles. He would be a scary, perfect fit for our offense if what I am reading is correct. A total JS move would be to trade back into the early first with a QB hungry team and take McDonald with our first pick. As soon as you get access to some tape, could you spotlight McDonald??
I will try and do a bit of work on him, see what I can get.
Here is a link to a Houston Texans clip on Vance McDonald. He goes to Rice U in Houston.
He is 6-4, 262, with a 40 Low of 4.72…
Yet another wild card out there…prob 4-5 round…
No way McDonald lasts to the 4th round… Phil Savage, Adam Caplan and more ‘guarantee’ 2nd round. Of all the guys at the Senior Bowl, he is the one who opened eyes the most. He’s big, fast and ‘makes acrobatic catches’. His senior numbers seem a little light, but I am told he had a foot injury he was dealing with which hampered him.
Hi everybody. Just reposting this link because it is a mock draft with a video link to every player on the list in one place… makes in easier if you want to investigate some video perhaps…
http://www.fieldgulls.com/nfl-draft/2013/1/30/3880970/matts-mock-draft-first-edition-the-seahawks-draft-a-tight-end
Cheers!
Rob, who would be the safest pick and boldest pick in the draft based on need. I would classify Bruce Irvin as a bold pick, but filled a pass rushing need. Your thoughts?
I Leaning towards Tight End in RD1 and since we our a running football team i’m looking at
Travis Kelce from cincinnati.
The defensive line not exactly super young, and we need that tech 3
Bennie Logan Defensive Tackle LSU
need more depth at WR no way around that
Chris Harper WR Kansas St
I love Leroy Hill but its time.
Zavier Goodsen OLB Missouri
well those are my 1st four pick for 1 thru 4 hehe
Alright! – It’s time to find out who’ll draft 31st and who’ll draft 32nd! Finally, we will have certainty!