Seattle’s off-season creates more questions than answers

May 15th, 2020 | Written by Rob Staton

DeAndre Baker & Quinton Dunbar have been accused of armed robbery

This was always going to be a vital period for the Seahawks.

Having endured two off-seasons of re-setting — for the first time they had money to spend and draft picks to use.

This was a golden opportunity to propel the team back into serious Super Bowl contention. Yet as of May 15th, the off-season has simply created a host of question marks and confusion.

Everything starts with the struggling 2019 defense.

We’ve gone over this so many times already so I apologise for once again repeating the same stats today. Yet it’s the best way to illustrate just how bad Seattle’s defense was last year and why it needed major work:

— The Seahawks finished with 28 sacks, second fewest in the league behind only Miami (23)

— Their sack percentage was 4.5% — third worst overall

— The Seahawks produced a sack or quarterback hit on just 14.4% of opponents’ pass plays — worst in the NFL

— They had only 126 pressures, sixth fewest in the league behind Detroit (125), Oakland (117), Houston (117), Atlanta (115) and Miami (96)

— Seattle’s pressure percentage was the fourth worst in the league (19.3%) behind Detroit (18.9%), Houston (18.1%) and Miami (16.7%)

— Seattle hit the quarterback 68 times — fourth fewest

— They had 52 TFL’s — fourth fewest

— They gave up 55 explosive running plays on defense, seventh most in the NFL

— Their explosive run play percentage (14%) was the third worst overall behind only Carolina (16%) and Cleveland (15%)

— They gave up 4.9 YPC — fourth most overall

— They had 131 missed tackles during the regular season — fourth most.

It was difficult to make a case that the defensive issues had been addressed even before the news broke yesterday that an arrest warrant had been issued for Quinton Dunbar. It’s likely he’ll never play a down for the Seahawks. The fifth round pick they spent on him will be a waste and the only saving grace is they can cut him without taking on any dead money. They’ll save $3.4m.

People were banking on Dunbar making a difference. PFF ranking him as the #2 cornerback in the NFL last season raised expectations — even if it was creating false hope (Dunbar has actually missed 14 games due to injury in the last two years and was far from a sure thing).

With the likelihood that he won’t be part of the 2020 Seahawks after all, here’s a quick review on what’s actually changed in terms of Seattle’s starting defense:

Players Out
Jadeveon Clowney
Al Woods
Quinton Jefferson
Ziggy Ansah
Mychal Kendricks

Players In
Bruce Irvin
Benson Mayowa
Jordyn Brooks
Darrell Taylor

The secondary, without Dunbar, is identical to a year ago with no new additions of significance. They spent a first round pick to replace Mychal Kendricks (and presumably K.J. Wright for the long term). They’ve so far failed to bring back Jadeveon Clowney — instead adding Benson Mayowa, Bruce Irvin and trading up for Darrell Taylor. They’re yet to replace Al Woods.

It’s impossible to look at this collection of ins and outs and make any kind of argument that the Seahawks are better.

How are they going to improve in terms of pass rush, pressure rate and run defense?

Irvin and Mayowa are complimentary pieces. As noted last week, they were well supported in Carolina and Oakland last season:

Irvin played on a line in Carolina that had multiple, high-quality contributors. Mario Addison and Brian Burns delivered 17 sacks between them. Vernon Butler, Gerald McCoy and Dontari Poe also combined for 15 more sacks rushing the interior.

In Oakland, Mayowa’s production fit in alongside Maxx Crosby, Clelin Ferrell and Maurice Hurst collectively providing 18 sacks.

The Seahawks also need to find a way to replace Clowney’s impact — which was significant despite his modest sack numbers. His pass rush win percentage (25%) was fifth highest in the NFL and only 1% lower than Myles Garrett in 2019 — despite facing constant double teams. He also had 30 pressures — twice as many as Mayowa in Oakland.

This has been a strange off-season overall. It’s difficult to work out how they’re going to improve the concerning defensive numbers short of simply hoping some of the underachievers on the roster (such as Rasheem Green and L.J. Collier) elevate their performance to an unexpected new level.

Either that or they need to make some late moves. Namely Clowney. Those suggesting Logan Ryan and Dre Kirkpatrick as alternatives to Dunbar should acknowledge Seattle’s strict preferences on arm length (and neither player has the coveted +32 inch arms).

If you’re willing to be honest, the defensive line doesn’t look good enough. The biggest investment on the defense so far is a linebacker. The secondary, minus Dunbar, will be untouched.

Despite all this, they’ve spent $50m in free agency on retaining players or signing new ones. How can there be so many questions about potential improvement with such a high level of investment?

Is it not right to question why so little has been done to upgrade a defense that badly needed help? To ask why the roster is loaded with 18 offensive linemen yet so far, even Al Woods hasn’t been replaced at defensive tackle? To critique the decision to spend $11.796m on David Moore, Branden Jackson, Joey Hunt, Cedric Ogbuehi and Jacob Hollister — while enduring a painful stalemate with Clowney (yet being unwilling to simply move on and sign someone else — for example Everson Griffen).

There are so many more questions too.

Is it wise to invest $12.8m of cap space in Greg Olsen (35) and Bruce Irvin (33 this year)? Why are they paying Jacob Hollister $3.259m as a restricted free agent having already committed $6.9m to Olsen and then drafting two tight ends?

Is it a good use of funds to be spending nearly $25m of 2020 cap space on two linebackers — while also using your first round pick on the position?

Why is Irvin’s 2020 salary 32% more than the deal he signed in Carolina a year ago? What did Cedric Ogbuehi show in his 155 total snaps for the Jaguars last season to warrant a pay increase from $895,000 to $2.237m?

Do they have sufficient depth at running back, considering the offense virtually collapsed at the end of the 2019 season when Chris Carson and Rashaad Penny were injured? Given Penny is expected to start on the PUP list and Carson has a track record of injuries, can they place any faith in Deejay Dallas and Travis Homer to carry the load? And is Marshawn Lynch a realistic fallback again as anything more than a late-season energiser?

Of course there’s still time for further moves. The Seahawks didn’t acquire Clowney until right before the start of the season a year ago. Yet you can’t bank on trades of that caliber being available every year. Most teams, by now, have done their business. They keep their options open on players as they seek value. They don’t need to make major, significant additions after the draft though.

The Seahawks have a lot still to get done.

It’s also possible they’ve simply experienced a spate of bad luck. The Clowney situation was unpredictable and possibly had an impact on everything else they’ve done this off-season. Signing him back in the first 3-4 days of free agency could’ve changed the entire complexion of what they were able to do. The Dunbar incident is even more unexpected.

Even so — when you’re a team that aspires to compete for Super Bowls, playing in the toughest division in football with two rivals who’ve been in the Super Bowl in the last two seasons, you’re going to have your off-season analysed and critiqued. Any serious debate about the Seahawks has to ask the difficult questions about whether enough has been achieved so far for Seattle to take any kind of step forward in 2020.

Some brief thoughts on the Russell Wilson trade stuff

Yesterday Mike Florio brought up the prospect of the Seahawks trading Wilson in the not too distant future. It follows a conversation with Chris Simms earlier in the week where Simms noted the Seahawks and Browns talked about a possible Wilson trade involving the #1 pick in 2018.

The reaction from Seattle’s media has been staunchly defensive but I think there are two serious points to make:

1. The Seahawks almost certainly did consider trading Wilson

2. There will be an interesting situation in 2022

It’s easy to forget that a year ago, Adam Schefter spent considerable time — unprovoked — discussing the possibility of Wilson being traded prior to the 2019 draft. Jack Del Rio also mentioned that he’d heard, within the league, talk of a possible trade.

See for yourself:

It’s very easy to revise history since Wilson signed his new deal. In the build up to that agreement, there was talk of wanting $40m a year, playing on multiple franchise tags or insisting on a percentage of the cap as a salary. The Seahawks had already endured one highly fractious negotiation with Wilson’s agent Mark Rodgers in 2015. I don’t think people truly grasp how concerned they probably were about a second bout with Rodgers. It’s very, very believable that they feared the worst and wondered whether they would have to consider the unthinkable, rather than risk a Kirk Cousins-esque slow-dance to divorce.

Such a situation would’ve been a huge distraction. A black cloud hanging over the franchise. It would’ve also been very likely that Seattle would’ve eventually lost Wilson without proper compensation.

So it shouldn’t be a surprise at all that they had even a brief conversation about trading Wilson to a team owning the #1 overall pick in a 2018 draft loaded with quarterback talent. Any sensible team would have that conversation — even if it’s just to cover all bases. It’s also very real that they had similar conversations a year ago. In the end no trade was necessary because an agreement was reached. Seahawks fans should be happy that the team is mature enough to consider all eventualities.

It’s to Wilson’s credit that he didn’t force Seattle’s hand or insist on being a trailblazer for NFL contracts. He accepted what he was due — to be the highest paid player in the league for a while. All’s well that ends well.

Yet had he insisted on changing the NFL’s contract structure forever — there’s every chance he would’ve been playing somewhere else.

As for the future — Wilson is contracted for four more seasons. It seems unlikely, due to coronavirus, that the NFL economy is going to outgrow his salary in that timeframe. There’s even talk of the cap coming down in 2021. Therefore it’s unlikely there’ll be any issues until after the 2022 season.

By then, the negotiations will begin again over an extension. And once again, we’ll need to see how Wilson plays it. He’ll only be 33 when they start talking. He will feel, at that stage, like he has at least one last enormous contract in him.

Given the way negotiations have gone in the past, it’d be naive to assume the two parties will skip along to 2023 and then just merrily sign an extension.

What if the Seahawks are unable to seriously challenge for a Super Bowl between now and 2022? Wilson publicly called for the team to add superstars this off-season. He hasn’t done that before. If they can’t properly compete for a Championship and sufficiently build around him over the next three seasons, he might have a decision to make.

We’ve also just seen the biggest name quarterback in NFL history switch teams. Will it be that surprising if Tom Brady moving to Tampa Bay raised a few eyebrows among long-standing quarterbacks? And what happens if Brady wins a ring (or two) to end his career in a new city?

The no-trade clause is also a red-herring. If by 2023 Wilson wants to move on — and if another team offers him the salary and the opportunity he desires — he will waive it. It’s window dressing on the contract and merely security for both parties until the next negotiation begins.

Look — the Seahawks and Wilson are good for each other and that could easily remain the case for the rest of his career. Florio’s report was also a little bit mischievous at a time when there’s very little news to discuss (well, until DeAndre Baker and Quinton Dunbar stepped in).

Don’t just write it off as complete trash though. Even if, for the next few years at least, there’s nothing to worry about.

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283 Responses to “Seattle’s off-season creates more questions than answers”

  1. Group Captain Mandrake says:

    I’m positive that they inquired about getting the Browns top pick. And I would assume any talks include pick 4 as well if they were going to give up RW3. From what I read this morning, every single team called the Browns about that pick though, so I’m sure it’s basically every GM kicking the tires to see what it would take to get it done. Were they actually interested in the trade, or just doing their due diligence?

    • Rob Staton says:

      It’s due diligence. And they’ll have done the same a year ago. If Wilson had gone down the path Dak appears to be, I think they would’ve seriously considered moving him. Thankfully they got a deal done instead.

      But the situation will rear again in 2022 and it’ll be interesting to see what happens.

      • Group Captain Mandrake says:

        Yeah, it will definitely be interesting. Not only will RW be at the end of his contract, he will be 35 (I think) and they will need to start thinking about his successor. Is he going to take team friendly deals like Brady did? Not only that, but Pete will be in his 70s. Will he even still be coach by then? Interesting times coming.

  2. AlaskaHawk says:

    Great article Rob. I wasn’t aware of Dunbar’s issues – this really sucks.

    I acknowledge that the defense was bad last year. Not just the line, but there are also two cornerback positions that could improve, and I’m praying the safeties continue to play well after numerous attempts to fix them. L

    But there are two ways to win a game. Defensively – or by scoring more often than your opponent. Some of us thought there should be a greater push to give our Hall of Fame QB some elite weapons to throw to and to run the ball. The offensive line continues to rotate personnel – we can only hope it shows improvement.

    I enjoyed the draft and can see why they chose who they did. But at the end of the day – has the offense improved through the draft? The guard they picked should help from day one. The rest is a big maybe. Maybe the running back will step in (with penny still injured through early season), maybe the late round tight ends will perform. I just don’t see a lot of improvement there. And it bothers me when we have such a good quarterback. And the team wants to be able to run the ball, in fact depends on it since they run the ball even when the results are horrendous.

    I guess to summarize, Yeah the defense is getting worse each year. But they shouldn’t ignore the offense in their top picks. I realize they picked Penny a few years ago, but since both him and Carson were injured, I really wish they would find some better offensive weapons.

  3. BobbyK says:

    The only positive (not for 2020) in all these marginal players making millions (Mayowa, Irvin, Olsen, etc.) is that there should be some good cap space available for ’21. Maybe they’ll have a better plan next year (while we’re essentially wasting a year of a franchise QB in the prime of his career).

    You do not trade a franchise QB when he’s at or near the top of his game. Russ is such a good/great student of the game that he’s going to be (already is) a great guy without rushing for many yards. He’s still going to be elite in his upper-30s. You can replace GMs, you can’t replace franchise QBs. There’s only a few times ever in history when it’s been done and it worked out (such as Montana/Young and Favre/Rodgers). It’s a sick thought to think of Russ being somewhere in his thirties and being in a different uniform.

    Brooks, Taylor, and Lewis really need to kill it. I mean Brooks needs to come in day one as a starter and make an impact in the open field. Taylor needs to at least provide situational pressure as a rookie. And Lewis needs to come in and be a quality starter right off the bat. Then they need one of their fourth round offensive players to make some sort of positive impact. If ever there was a rookie class in the last half decade that was needed to actually be good – this is the one because the needle in terms of talent isn’t pointed anywhere close to having elite talent overall.

    Remember being so good when getting a punt returner better than Bryan Walters was a big priority? Now it’s like – “we can draft about anything because help is needed almost everywhere… DB, LB, DE, DT, RB, RT, you name it.”

  4. mishima says:

    Does this mean we’re trading for Rosen?

    I remember them scouting the top QBs and getting really anxious. Glad nothing came of it.

  5. Gohawks5151 says:

    This is not an excuse but I think that Seattle’s bad luck is understated overall. Every team deals with it. I know this. But losing Cliff, Kam, and Sherm not only is a loss of high level production but also team leadership and identity. Malik Mcdowell is dumb luck. Maybe he turns around his image like Clark. Dissly could be a pro bowler but can’t complete half a season. The running back room has been a dumpster fire for years. Rawls, Carson, Penny, Procise. All show promise, none have completed a full season. They have been spinning plates for years now. It’s like this year. If they have stability at D line, then they can take hone in on receiver and running back. They have little stability and reliability out side of Russ and Bobby. I think they have made smart moves in some ways but the rebuild timeline maybe was always longer than we thought, which is sad because we are in Russ’ prime.

    • BobbyK says:

      I think losing Sherm had more to do with him not exactly “buying into” what Pete was selling anymore. They gutted the team of guys like that (Cliff and Kam were crap luck with their injuries – but injuries are more prone to happen with older vets, too, so it can’t come as a total surprise either, especially the way Kam played). Not only did they get ride of those (talented) guys like Bennett and Sherm – but the did gut the entire coaching staff as well. They really did want to start over. But their drafts are why they’re stuck in the mud with a franchise QB. Even in their glory drafts the first few years, they still took bums (everyone does) like EJ Wilson, Moffitt, etc. but the overall talent acquired was really good. But if this draft class can exceed current expectations – there’s a chance to be good/great again.

      No draft will (probably) ever be like 2012 again. I mean, you get a franchise QB and a defensive QB (MLB) and both will end up in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. But it’s 8 years down the road and most of what you have on that team are those two kingpins. Granted, you sprinkle DK, Lockett, and Brown into things and the potential of a Dissly staying healthy and this draft could save them (or sink them further). On paper, I’m sure we’d all trade drafts with any of our division rivals – but remember when the 2012 draft was graded so badly? Look how that turned out. I’m hoping that these guys can do something special because outside of Blair going into his sophomore season and Dissly (junior year) staying healthy – I see no first or second year player coming back who will be a quality player. I mean good, not just alright.

      • Gohawks5151 says:

        I get what you mean. But when pillars all crumble at once it makes the job so much harder makes the whole process convoluted. If they still lose Cliff, Kam and Sherm but one per year it at least gives them specific needs that they can prioritize in the draft and get their guy. Instead it became too many positions to replace, so we need to trade back and get more picks, but also we are kind of good so we should maybe get a guy that can help now situations. That said i still have hope for this and the previous 2 draft classes. Barring of course injury…

  6. Volume12 says:

    How do you go from NFL corners to stick up kids?

    • Miami Hawk says:

      Don’t get too pessimistic about the Dunbar thing. At this point, there is little chance whatsoever that he will be convicted of anything and it is very likely that he had nothing to do with the robbery. The 5 witnesses who the police talked to and upon whom there case is based have all signed sworn affidavits stating that Dunbar had nothing to do with any robbery. What this means is that at the very least the government will not be able to to meet its burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt because either the witnesses were lying then or they are lying now, or as is more likely the case, the all 5 of the police witnesses were “encouraged” to provide the statements to enhance the narrative.

      The fact that the Miramar police tagged their employers (Seahawks and Giants) on twitter would bne extremely damaging in front of a jury even if they could get more witnesses and make it to a trial without the judge dismissing the case. The police department does not have good
      answer as to why they informed the suspects’ employers, located in other cities, that they had a warrant.

      “Do you normally release the existence of a warrant against a suspect to national media before they have been charged?”
      “No”

      “Do you regularly inform the employer of a suspect before they have been formally charged?”
      “No”

      “Why did you do it in this case?”

      The implication of this alone is obvious. They want the publicity of a media case.

      Either way, the prosecutor should have dropped the charge because the witness statements the police have exonerate Dunbar, at least until they have other witnesses. Had the judge known of the statements at the time (which she did not), she likely would not have even issued the warrant.

      This is stereotypical poor police work trying to make a case. I live here in South Florida and am an attorney and this level of Barney Fife level of shoddy police work is extremely common, especially in Broward county. Policing down here is extremely political and the local police are notoriously poorly trained and this simply illustrates that. The detective was incompetent in failing to evaluate the credibility of his witnesses and going forward with it anyway.

      We have no idea what happened but almost certainly it was not what the police affidavit says. But regardless, the 5 exonerating affidavits will not go away and the chance of a conviction for Dunbar is extremely low in the absence of some more “creative” police work.

    • dcd2 says:

      I found this comment amusing:

      Scott Barrett
      @ScottBarrettDFB
      ·
      3m
      Replying to
      @JimTrotter_NFL
      Belichick’s going to hire a black trans lesbian paraplegic as GM and walk away with Trevor, isn’t he?

      • Rob Staton says:

        It’ll either say the league needs an incentive to hire black or ethnic minority candidates (which is a terrible look) or that teams should actively hire people not because they are the best person for the job, but because of their ethnicity or skin colour in order to get a leg-up in the draft.

        Either way it’s totally ridiculous.

        And will candidates then forever be labelled as token hires in order to gain draft position? Even if they were clearly hired purely on merit, will they always have that nonsense attached?

        I never understand these types of debates anyway. Most teams have hired a black or ethnic minority GM, Head Coach or top coordinator in the recent past. Most teams don’t change HC or GM that often. Is a team less culpable if they recently spent a high draft pick on a black player to be their face of the franchise, such as Kyler Murray? What is deemed to be problematic? How far back do you have to go with a team not having a black or ethnic minority Head Coach or GM in order to judge they are a problem? Is the only way to deem there’s not a problem to have a consistent ‘percentage’ of candidates or are we willing to accept it will fluctuate from time to time?

        And if you’ve paid millions or billions to own a football team, shouldn’t you have carte blanche to hire whoever you want?

    • GoHawksDani says:

      That is just plain wrong. Forcing social equivalence this way just hides the underlying issue

      • James Z says:

        Is the underlying issue that they’re aren’t qualified Black (also Latinx, So. Pacific)? I doubt that. Is it because the good-ole-boys (white man’s) club is racist or tied to status quo? Could be. Or is it that the ‘life expectancy’ of the players on the field is so short and so competitive that there aren’t many elder statesmen in the ranks that could marshall the forces in a way that would bring real change to all levels of management? Could have something to do with it.

        To mandate hiring is flat out stupid…

    • mishima says:

      Until the players gain some ownership/control over ‘the means of production,’ it won’t matter.

      I expect NFL tokenism, but am continually surprised by player apathy and indifference.

    • Miami Hawk says:

      WTF?That will really go over well.

  7. cha says:

    Thanks Rob. I know, speaking for myself, I dismissed the Florio report simply because there are SO MANY other pressing questions for the roster. Having your franchise QB locked for the foreseeable future is practically the biggest source of comfort Hawks fans have. Yet it does bear an examination.

    That said, I will be very, very interested to hear what RW has to say to press conference when asked about the 2020 team and the offseason additions (or lack thereof). Will words be the typical ‘worked offseason with the new guys/excited for the additions/GO HAWKS’ or will be there some hints of dissatisfaction with the roster construction and team direction?

  8. Logan Lynch says:

    Interesting factoid that I haven’t seen brought up anywhere.

    The Giants drafted DeAndre Baker at pick #30 in the 2019 draft after trading up with…the Seattle Seahawks.

  9. dcd2 says:

    I’ve gone bald from scratching my head so much at this off-season. All of the points laid out here are valid and concerning. Every position group feels the same or worse than last year.

    The two exceptions are TE and LB. TE we’ve invested around $12M and two draft picks in. LB we’re on the hook for about $30M and our #1 pick this year for cost. Both are a lot of capital, just to be (hopefully) better by a degree.

    Compounding this “approach” towards roster construction and cap allocation, our drafting has been downright bad for years. We’re barely getting 1 guy per draft that is giving a meaningful contribution to the team (ie: starter). What Bobby said above is right though. We need multiple guys from this draft to pan out. We probably need that for a few years, going forward, to be honest.

    If Brooks can step in for KJ next year, that = younger, faster, cheaper
    If Taylor can be a legit LEO, again = younger, faster, cheaper
    If Lewis can be a really good RG, the line might look ok next year, while overall being – younger & cheaper
    If Parkinson can replace Olsen next year = younger, faster, cheaper

    Sadly, this still fixes only a few of our issues and relies on 4 of our current draft picks being ‘hits’ which hasn’t happened since 2012.

  10. GoHawksDani says:

    I think the trade talk is bs. Browns might reached out just to feel out the situation, but the compensation should be insanely high for a top3 QB in his prime. Like 1st and 2nd round picks for 3-4 years. Unless you have a young and complete roster no team would give that much. And even then…only logical trade could happen if A, Wilson is over 36-37 or B, PCJS go and a new FO want a complete rebuild. 99,999% chance Pete won’t finish with a gambling-rookie QB or washed up vet. He wants another ring and the most likely way to get that is with Wilson.
    I wasn’t against a trade and complete rebuild before Russ’s new contract. That would’ve prevented mediocrity (they would’ve either been bottom 5 for a couple years and SB contenders or just bottom 5 for a long time). But the rebuild-time would’ve been when all the stars went too. Now it’s couple years of being one and done in POs and “re-tooling” just to start a total rebuild? Zero logic…but this FO shown couple of twisted moves lately…so who knows…but if they’d do that I’d have to join the firePCJS gang…

  11. Jordan says:

    In terms of trading Wilson, to me it seems way more likely that the Hawks willingness to trade Wilson was a negotiation strategy. 1 #overall pick would not be enough. Browns would also be very dumb not to do this if so. Wilson is a top 5 player to build around in the NFL… Plus great intangibles and proven. Hawks probably inquired to gauge what Wilson could fetch and negotiation strategy (JS was apparently high on Josh Allen). Wilsons contract is enormous but it could have been worse/even more if he demanded it.

    Hopefully the Dunbar stuff increases our chance for Clowney. Maybe we can apply that cap for him. Watched his press conference yesterday morning. Just shocking that later that day all of the charges came.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Well no, #1 wouldn’t of been enough. But the talks probably didn’t go very far because as the article notes, it was a base covering exercise. That would’ve been the starting point.

      The reason for the talks is as stated in the article. Through the very real threat of Mark Rodgers being a pain in the arse.

  12. BobbyK says:

    I may have missed it – but has there been talk about Brooks playing WILL and KJ at SAM in ’20? I could be wrong, but it seems like that would be a way to potentially improve both WILL and SAM in ’20. If Brooks can fly in space (KJ never was fast but compensated with that wingspan, but he’s definitely slower these days) and KJ would play more over the TE… idk… just thinking out loud what could improve at least the LBs (assuming Brooks can play at a high level to start his career).

    • Rob Staton says:

      Which is both plausible and fine for the LB position.

      I’m not sure anyone went into the off-season though thinking ‘if they just improve the WILL and SAM positions…’

      • BobbyK says:

        Good, gosh, I agree 100%.

        I’m just trying to make sense of the “madness.” The only thing I can think of is they learned their TJ Watt lesson and took a guy who they think is the best football player regardless of position moving forward. I remember EDGE wasn’t a huge priority when they took McDowell, but you knew it was going to be a little more going into the future with a few other DEs moving into their 30s. They took the need and got burned. Maybe knowing this is probably the last year with KJ – perhaps they thought Brooks is/was too good moving forward. I know I’ve been critical of them for taking more for “need” than best players – maybe they think Brooks really is the best in this scenario. While I am convinced Johathan Taylor would have been the best individual player available at #27 – perhaps they thought Brooks was the best? Because I went into the draft thinking they needed another RB more than they needed an OLB.

        It’s just very confusing trying to figure it out. Hope is so much fun to have – and without optimism – it’s not as fun looking forward to the season. I guess if ever there was going to be a season wiped out with a pandemic even though you have a franchise QB – this might be the one. Hope I’m wrong!

      • Miami Hawk says:

        Actually the coaches might have just been thinking that. Pass rush is merely but one part of a defense’s effectiveness. More concerning to me than the lack of a pass rush was the poor performance against the run. Pete’s defense is predicated upon stopping the run and was better against the pass than the run last year.

        The improvement to the secondary with Diggs and Dunbar (gulp)by itself should improve the pass defense significantly. Additionally, pass rush can be generated through scheming it up when needed.

        There are many ways to build an effective bend but don’t break defense and while some teams like to build front to back, there are believers in building from back to front. And at the cost of dedicated pass rushing studs due to their scarcity, building from the back seems to be the way to go. That is what Bellichick and the Dolphins are doing.

        They still have a boatload of potential pieces in play for the DL that very well could jell this year from the disaster of last year.

        They were very close to having a bye last year, even with the porous defense, A simple improvement overral, as well as a healthy offense in the stretch could make the difference. It seems to me that this could be a defining year for the coaching staff to pull it off.

        • Rob Staton says:

          Let’s be clear here. You can’t build a pass rush back to front. You might be able to build a defense back to front but you still need good pass rushers. It’s incredibly difficult to manufacture pass rush.

          You say that’s what Belichick and Miami are doing. The Pats have spent a whole bunch of day two picks on pass rushers the last three years. The Dolphins spent a high R1 pick on Christian Wilkins, a R2 pick on Raekwon Davis, they spent a fortune on Kyle Van Noy and paid a decent amount for Shaq Lawson. So they’re not exactly skimping here. We’re not in ‘Mayowa and Irvin’ territory.

          On your last paragraph — let’s be real about the situation here. The Seahawks were only in position to compete for a bye due to their quarterback. They also had a quite ridiculous situation where their point differential was about +7 and they somehow won every close game. I know it’s tempting to look at that and believe a ‘slight’ improvement could tip them over the edge. The reality is if they don’t have a dramatic improvement on defense, they won’t be as fortunate in 2020 and a lot of those close games will go the other way and rather than finishing with 11 wins they’ll be closer to the eight or nine their performance in 2019 perhaps more broadly warranted.

          The other thing to note is a ‘simple improvement’ is not losing your one, single, effective pressure creator and replacing him with two journeymen.

          I actually don’t think this is the defining year for the coaching staff to pull it off. In fact I anticipate everyone’s going to spend the season hammering Ken Norton for a lack of improvement, when he’s been given absolutely nothing to work with (again).

    • BC_Hawk says:

      Agree about KJ to SAM and Brooks to WILL, but you are now paying a situational SAM LB 10m while being a cheapskate on your biggest glaring need.

      Given that the draft is now done and over (drafting possibilities done), if the above is the plan
      – cut KJ
      – sign Clowney for 20mill on a 2/3 year
      – cut Dunbar
      – sign Ryan (if he is <9mill)
      – Sign Harrison/Mebane/…..some big ass vet with gas still in the tank

      At least we can say there is improvement from last year at this point.

      On Offense:
      – I don't have a clue at RT; keep fingers crossed Shell is OK. Jones and Wheeler are depth
      – Centre: BJ be better than Hunt…cross fingers
      – RB: I don't know; I don't think we NEED to go big here. I hope that are stable is ok until Penny is back..but that is just me. Marshawn..as a FB and odd 3rd down

      BUT, this wont happen…start looking forward to the 2021 DRaft 🙂

  13. Big Mike says:

    If the team direction (or lack thereof if you want to call it that considering this offseason) and lack of acquiring “superstars” continues, I can see Russ forcing a trade by not extending. But here’s another thought…….what’s the possibility he forces ownership’s hand demanding that a new man in charge be brought in and Pete be sent down the road? Obviously in that scenario he’d want to stay in Seattle because of roots, friends on team, etc. Thoughts?

    • Rob Staton says:

      Come on, there’s absolutely no way Russell Wilson is going to demand Pete Carroll be fired.

      • Tallyhawk says:

        Am I the only one tired of the acquiring superstars stick used to beat Pete and John with? I also found it annoying that Russ even said it. Superstars don’t grow on trees and it’s a lot harder to get them when the guy who calls for more is making 35 mil and taking up 1/4 of the salary cap.

        • Rob Staton says:

          The fact is RW said it and likely said it for a reason. And while you’re right superstars don’t grow on trees, look at some of the names that moved this off season — from Calais to Nuk to Trent Williams – for virtually nothing.

          It’s fair to question whether the Seahawks have done enough this off-season to improve and RW’s comment is one aspect of it.

          • DK is a budding superstar. I would have said the same about Dunbar (although his injury history scares me). Olsen. Carsen could be.

            Really, this all stems from Clooney.

            Remember, all 32 GMs have said no to his number. I think this is less about the Seahawks and more to do with Clooney.

            Please also remember, in 2009, we yearned for vision in our leadership. The vision still lives.

            Seattle is struggling to find balance paying a franchise quarterback and fielding a super bowl roster.

            This leadership group is awesome. I trust them. While I don’t like the 2020 process, I understand the hesitation to pay one player that is injury prone a ton of money.

            Go hawks.

            • Rob Staton says:

              It’s not about Clowney.

              It’s about the fact they’ve spent $50m and the defense could be worse.

              It’s about your biggest investment of the off season going on the one position you’re already paying $25m on for two players.

              It’s about thinking Irvin and Mayowa are a solution to the pass rush.

              It’s about watching other teams make the kind of moves this team used to make, while the Seahawks collect journeymen.

              I surely don’t have to repeat all of the questions broached in the article?

  14. Frank says:

    It has been a head scratcher for sure. It definitely seems like there is a little bit of hoping for a youth movement, while always hedging with past their prime players. IMO they hedge to much, and use to much cap space hedging with veterans. The defense was so bad last year, but after paying RW, I think they want to support him with a good young cast on offense to give a few years to gel, and push really going after defensive improvement another year down the line. I love the Hawks draft, but the signing over the hill players, and not retaining Clowney make my brain hurt.
    If Covid drops the salary cap, I wonder if anyone is going to see another contract like Wilson’s. We really need other contenders having to build a team similarly handicapped. Come on Jerry, just pay Dak the money so we can write them off for the next few years:).

  15. I think for sure the biggest part of this discussion is what would have happened if Clowney signed in the first couple days? Either with us or with another team. Would this off season played out differently? Most likely it would have but we will never know that. Personally I dont think the back end without Dunbar is the exact same? We only had Diggs for half the season and the numbers with him were better than they were without him. Also It will be interesting to see how Flowers progresses in year three (if Dunbar is indeed a goner). Both Griffin and Flowers have had similar paths. They both played well in there rookies years and both struggled as sophomores. Griffin turned things around in year three and we will see if Flowers can do the same.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I don’t know why people keep referring to Quandre Diggs like he’s a new signing.

      He was there last season. They had him. Half season or not.

      The pass rush or secondary isn’t suddenly going to take a massive leap forward because he alone has a training camp.

      • Darnell says:

        I guess there is hope that they’ll get a full 16 out of Diggs, as the defensive splits with him in the lineup are pretty encouraging relative to when he wasn’t.

  16. WorldBFree says:

    Rob, I love your work and honesty. I think this off season has been mostly a waste. The defense is no better than last year. It feels like the team is spinning its wheels and getting no where. I also think Wilson will be traded in a few years but only after PC is gone. It feels like the end is getting near for PC.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I hope people see it as honesty and not negativity.

      Because regulars know I am not negative or overly critical of the Seahawks. I call it as I see it. Some questions need to be asked about this off-season that aren’t being asked.

      • Group Captain Mandrake says:

        Sadly, based on this off-season, it is both honesty and (well deserved) negativity.

      • Darnell says:

        “Because regulars know I am not negative or overly critical of the Seahawks” Absolutely. In fact, more of than not I’ve found that you lean towards the optimistic side of things.

        I think we actually got into a debate, prior to free agency, about me saying that they weren’t 1 offseason away, and you, being the optimist, saying that they were. I just thought that there were too many holes.

  17. BC_Hawk says:

    Wow Rob….My exact take on both topics to a tee.

    The Dunbar debacle just created another hole in an, so far, uneventful/disappointing offseason, where we widdled away our cap space on depth or complementary players. As Wilson spoke to at the Pro-Bowl, this team needed super stars, not complementary players. Dunbar and Olsen represented the only two potential additions that COULD have been superstars; the rest are after thoughts.

    In addition, what improvement have we seen on the Oline? Maybe Davis & BJ will be an improvement over Fluker and Britt in Pass Pro?? Maybe… Yet, we gave a guy that got benched by the Jets 5m, a guy that couldn’t find his way on the Jags 2-3m..just crazy! AND RT is in no better position than last year; at least we could have had continuity and 4m had we retained Ifedi.

    Had we secured Clowney early, Irvin and Mayowa are fabulous. Al Woods gone, but drafted Davis or traded for Campbell…unbelievable. The one position, nickel, that I was starting to feel good about crumbled like $70k in a cookout poker game. Maybe if we had taken care of our biggest need early we could discuss sneaking Ryan in now via restructures; until that void is filled, might as well just cheap the money in your pocket like an old man at a soup kitchen.

    I have been holding out hope in the wake of disappointment so far, but see no real light at the end of the tunnel. This team effectively needs a few superstars, and we will be forced to sign more mediocracy to simply fill the roster. I love the idea of signing cuts and such to fill voids; we need stars not concrete patch.

    As for Wilson, you are spot on Rob! We bash JS/PC for the fiasco with Clowney. The discussion with the Browns to trade Wilson was simply a Plan B to avoid being in the quagmire like we are now. Have concrete options available in the pipe to act on should things not go 100% as expected. As we are with Clowney now, putting all your eggs into one basket is a dangerous way to run a franchise. For the record, I see Griffen as another complementary player, not difference maker. He makes this team better, not a game changer.

  18. Sea Mode says:

    Something to take your mind off the Seahawks’ offseason for a couple minutes: did someone say “hard hitting safety”?

    Love how you can hear the crunch upon contact.

    Hardest HITTING Safety in College Football 💥 || Pitt Safety Paris Ford 2019 Highlights ᴴᴰ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w4FW7Nbt5g

    Will be a junior this year. 3 INT, 9 PBU, 3FF last season.

  19. EveryoneAppreciatesNudez says:

    This just in from my inside contacts with Bill O’Brien of the Texans and the VMAC cleaning staff. The Texans And Seahawks will soon announce a trade. DE J.J. Watt is going to Seattle for G Chance Warmack and a 2022 6th round pick.

    Word of this is traveling around NFL inside circles. It is believed this news is the cause for another upcoming move. Pittsburgh OLB TJ Watt is also going to Seattle as part of an alleged armed robbery committed Seattle CB Quinton Dunbar. Dunbar’s alleged actions were inspired after watching the Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito hit movie Twins.

    You can trust my insiders. They correctly reported that all parties involved would eat food, sleep, and use the bathroom at least once last week before anyone reported this. They have such an inside scoop that no one else has reported this.

    Back to reality. I hope this at least brought a few laughs for y’all. This has been a frustrating offseason when usually there are more moves to get excited about.

    -Kendo

    • Rob Staton says:

      It seems like it’s time to let the situation play out. I’m certainly not going to take the words of a defense lawyer, paid to defend his client, on face value. It also seems a bit unusual to be accused of this and then a day later have five witness statements defending you. So let’s all just let the situation play out.

    • BC_Hawk says:

      LOL….guy just need to self isolate, round home, collect 3.4mill

      • 2020Hawk says:

        A lawyer is not going to falsify evidence if he/she has no skin in the crime! That lawyer would become an accomplice to the crime, conspiracy charges to commit armed robbery would be filed against the attorney, the attorney would be in bigger trouble than Dunbar! However if Dunbar etc… committed the robbery on behalf of the lawyer then it would make sense that the lawyer to do whatever he/she can to get Dunbar off the hook for the crime.

      • 2020Hawk says:

        If the Seahawks cut Dunbar and Dunbar proves he is innocent, Dunbar will sue the police and he will win that lawsuit for $3.4 million plus damages!

    • 2020Hawk says:

      Why didn’t the police go after Dunbar etc… To catch them with the stolen items? If they are not in possession of the stolen items & they do not have a recording of the crime, how is the District Attorney going to prosecute Dunbar etc….? A written testimony would be solid gold in this case if Dunbar is not caught with the stolen material & not caught on camera committing the crime.

    • 2020Hawk says:

      If the letter is real, no video of crime, no possession of stolen items, they have to drop the charges! They have no case! They did nothing to try to build a case! This is weaker case than a he said, she said Rape case if that letter is real.

      • Rob Staton says:

        And if they have witnesses insisting he was involved, they have a case.

        Which is why we need to let this play out.

        • 2020Hawk says:

          The police must catch the criminal in the act or in possession of stolen material in the USA to have a DECENT case! According to the police there is not a man hunt for Dunbar who they portrayed as a dangerous criminal. Have the wintnesses proven they are missing items? How do you know the witnesses all had expensive watches?

  20. Paul Cook says:

    If there’s one consolation to me about this off season it’s that next season in all likelihood is going to be so strange that it might offset the lack of excitement and efficiency of it. I was thinking the other day how difficult it might be for Vegas/bookmakers to make lines on games and take bets when at a moment’s notice things could drastically change with a few key positive tests on a team. So many things to work out.

    I just hope that football will be mostly back to normal for the 2021 season, and that the Hawks will have mostly addressed their deficiencies by then.

    In the meantime, and with our favorable schedule and RW, maybe we can claw our way back into the playoffs.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Part of the problem is the safe, comforting feeling of reaching the playoffs.

      Seattle’s won the NFC West once in the last five years. The Rams and 49ers have both been to the Super Bowl in that period. The Cardinals have been to the NFC Championship game.

      Getting to the playoffs isn’t enough.

      • Paul Cook says:

        Agree on that. I had a totally different visions of the off season for us, various different scenarios that might make us a SB contender. None of them came true unfortunately.

  21. 2020Hawk says:

    Not only is Dunbar’s supposed behavior bizarre but the Miramar Police, the way they are handling the arrest warrants is bizarre! They should be in jail by now or a major man hunt should be under way, Florida police are hardcore. Robbing childhood friends? I do wonder how much evidence the police have to back up the testimony’s of Dunbars’ accusers? I can’t remember an incident in my life time when I’ve heard a police department treating an armed robbery this way in the USA. I’m not taking sides Im just wondering why they are not in jail! So the police called them said we have an arrest warrant for you? That seems odd why would the police do that? Dunbar is not acting like a guy who just robbed a party at gun point!

    • 2020Hawk says:

      I can’t figure out why the police isn’t trying to find catch Dunbar etc.. With the stolen items? If the police doesn’t catch them with the stolen evidence & their is no video recording of the incident, how are they going to prosecute them?

      • Darnell says:

        I know Dunbar has a bit of an injury history, any word on if he had passed a physical with the Hawks yet? I’m assuming no, given travel restrictions.

        • Rob Staton says:

          Presumably yes, given the trade was ratified.

          • Bigten says:

            As a lawyer, the affidavit is very flimsy, and extremely contradictory. I was very surprised, but at the same time not. Dunba’s attorney has already received signed witness testimony that Dunbar wasn’t there. First that is that sounds fishy, some witness tampering maybe, but if charges against aren’t going to be filed by the victims then it doesn’t matter. My thought is that it seemed fishy from the beginning, especially the arrest warrant and affidavit. This actually makes the most sense.

            • 2020Hawk says:

              Bigten to the rescue glad your here! Am I wrong for wondering why the police after portraying Dunbar as a dangerous criminal they did not have a “man hunt” for him? Did the police portray Dunbar as a dangerous criminal or is the media doing their typical fake news? Can Dunbar sue if proven innocent?

              • Bigten says:

                I’m a relatively new lawyer lol and my crim law is limited to the classes taken in school, so I’m not trying to sound or act like a know it all. But Sadly I have seen situations where police stations or media making a mockery of the justice system by doing things like this without their facts being straight. That affidavit was pretty poor, and though maybe enough to have a warrant, not enough for a man hunt or to be putting individuals on blast like this. My opinion is there opened themselves up to some lawsuits should this actually not be correct and Dunbar or Baker innocent.

            • Sea Mode says:

              The weirdest tidbit for me was the police dept. tagging the NFL teams on Twitter. Can’t say I’ve ever seen that one before… 😂

              Miramar Police
              @MiramarPD

              (1/2) A warrant to arrest has been issued for Deandre Baker, of the @Giants (four counts of Armed Robbery with a Firearm and four counts of Aggravated Assault with a Firearm.) Quinton Dunbar of the @Seahawks also has a warrant to arrest for four counts of Armed Robbery with a…

      • CHawk Talker Eric says:

        Ugh I can’t believe my first comment in a couple of weeks is about this but…

        There are literally thousands of people in prisons across America who were convicted solely on the basis of eyewitness testimony. There have been people who were sentenced to death and executed solely on the basis of eyewitness testimony. Most of them, by the way, were African American men.

        Please stop saying police need a smoking gun to indict, or a jury to convict. They don’t. It’s entirely up to 16-23 people in a Grand Jury to decide to indict, and up to 12 people in a trial jury to decide the fate of someone accused of a crime.

        As usual, Rob’s right. We just gotta let the situation evolve before we can say anything definitive.

        • Bigten says:

          Or even just the court of public opinion or court of public pressure. Read or watch “Just Mercy”

          • Big Mike says:

            Or research Dr. Sam Sheppard who was the inspiration for the TV series The Fugitive. Public opinion and pressure got him wrongfully convicted and destroyed his life and he died young even after being exonerated.

        • Hawkdawg says:

          And the Grand Jury is almost always a complete mockery, in that the Grand Jury does what the prosecutor wants it to do. It’s the trial jury that counts.

          As another point, these “letters” to which people are referring, from what I have read, are not “letters” at all. They are affidavits, which are statements made on penalty of perjury. If these same five people signed affidavits saying Dunbar was involved, and have now signed affidavits that he was not, not only does that weaken the case against Dunbar because of the resultant utter lack of credibility of those witnesses, it also puts the witnesses at some risk, themselves.

  22. bv eburg says:

    Regarding trading Wilson.
    I proposed this very scenario back in 2018 right here in the comments section before the draft. And in hindsight I would do it again in a minute.
    Russell to Browns for #1 in 2018, 2019 and 2020
    Trade #1 overall for better haul that year and get multiple first/second rounders. With the native #27 I proposed Lamar Jackson (he went 31 to Ravens). Seattle had already taken one undervalued highly mobile quarterback and developed.

    We would have had multiple first rounders plus Jackson in 18
    Native and Browns 1st rounders in 19 and 20.
    $35 million more per year for free agents.

    • BC_Hawk says:

      I’d rather have Russell TBH.

      I don’t think Lamar will develop; I think we are seeing his plateau, and the effect of generating a system around a one dimensional generational player. Time will tell; I just don’t see it in him to become a fully faceted QB.

      Having said that, the Plan B by JS/PC was spot on and smart. I hope Russel is here until he decide to hang them up…BUT I also hope whom ever runs the club still creates a Plan B.

      • BC_Hawk says:

        at every contract period I meant

        • bv eburg says:

          My thought in the trade was to completely overhaul the defense. Lot’s of high end draft picks and plenty of cap space. Pete is a defensive coach and he would have plenty to work with.
          Carson and Jackson would have been a nice one two punch for a ball control offense which the Wilson led offense has failed to become.

      • Jeff108 says:

        Lamar has developed every year since high school. He is a Heisman winner and NFL MVP. Plateaued? Won’t develop more after year 2? You are basing that claim off your own biases. Wow.

      • Jeff108 says:

        His year two was more incredible than any Russ individual year.

        • BC_Hawk says:

          Russ won a superbowl in year 2. Lamar choked in the layoffs for the 2nd straight year. This is a Cam Newton scenario…but I guess I’m Biased.

  23. Gaux Hawks says:

    rob… wish it weren’t true, but i think you’re 100% correct.

    • Gaux Hawks says:

      …where is the PCJS magic? (using my inside whining voice)

      • Paul Cook says:

        For me, it’s hard to overstate how not getting Clowney signed right off the bat potentially screwed things up by closing off different forward paths. I’m not sure how it would have turned out with PCJS had it went right with Clowney, but there certainly was more potential to get things right for us in various different ways.

        • Paul Cook says:

          PS> If there’s one thing that irks me a bit about PCJS it’s that they seemed to have misread the Clowney situation heading into the off season. Sure, they had contingency plans, but it sure seems they were more than a little caught off guard.

          Anyway…

          • Hughz says:

            It seems to me that Clowney is the one who misread the situation. I don’t see other teams giving him a large contract. He over valued himself and continues to do so as he is unsigned.

            • Paul Cook says:

              PCJS misread the situation and what Clowney might do, I believe. And they are in charge of a lot more than just one person. PCJS underestimated his stubbornness when he found out that the market didn;t value him as highly as he did himself. That cost the franchise in their decision making.

  24. Coleslaw says:

    Jpafootball on Instagram said Dunbar has letters from some victims stating that he wasn’t involved. Idk how true this is but we don’t know the full story yet, so its possible.

    • Rob Staton says:

      And the police department say they have sworn statements to the contrary.

      So as noted already, it’s time to let it play out.

      • 2020Hawk says:

        why can’t we try to solve the mystery? Do you have something better to do? I sure as hell don’t! Let me know I’ll go somewhere else where folks are interested in solving the crime.

      • pdway says:

        Rob is right – we do need to let it play out. Does feel like if there is truly an active warrant out for his arrest – Dunbar now needs to arrange to turn himself in, and presumably bail out (unless bail is denied, which seems somewhat unlikely).

        But this is also for sure a glimmer of hope – and I’ll take it . . .

  25. CWagner says:

    The Dunbar thing is definitely a bummer. I know he’s not a sure thing but I kept thinking at least they’ve improved the secondary this off season…like maybe adding a bit more talent there would somehow bring the defense together more. I realize that’s wishful thinking but damn it the defense needs improvement and if they’re not going to do much about the defensive line, then at least there could be improvements elsewhere. It’s hard to not be disappointed by this off season so far.

  26. Sea Mode says:

    Nice.

    Albert Breer
    @AlbertBreer
    ·18m

    The NFL is allowing teams to reopen their facilities on Tuesday. Coaches and players still not allowed in, but this is an important first step.

  27. Strategicdust says:

    Yes, there’s still more time but does anyone realistically think there will be major changes? We can all debate if the things that the front office has said about being comfortable going into the new season and keeping their remaining salary cap for potential cuts is true or a front. At this point in time, the offseason has been little short of disastrous in regards to improving the team for next year. We’ve all said wait for free agency, then wait for the draft. We are now past both and the decisions made have, for the most part, been puzzling and seemingly misguided.
    Rob, please don’t ever stop holding a light on this process and calling things out. You’re not being negative by questioning things. There is no reason for this column to be a whitewash of optimism where it’s not deserved.

  28. pdway says:

    If we sign Clowney – the off-season is not disastrous. It pretty much comes down to that.

    We had a good team whose strength was the offense – and that offense got crushed by a cluster of injuries at the worst time of the year. We’ve tried to revamp/upgrade the O-line, jury is out on that. We’ve added at TE and WR.

    We’ve denigrated the heck out of the Irvin/Mayowa signings – and while agree that neither of them are stars – they are both guys coming off strong years (Im not totally w the argument that they only got the sack #’s because they played on strong lines – – otherwise, you need to say the same thing about Armstead or Buckner). And while we might not have loved the draft, it was clearly defense-focused – and we’ll of course see how the picks do.

    If Clowney goes elsewhere – then it’s a different story. But I somehow still have the feeling he’s gonna be back.

    • Simo says:

      I tend to agree with everything you said pdway! I just think many of us were hoping for more, like a big splash DE (in addition to bringing Clowney back), some BAMF’s you know. It still just feels under whelming as a whole, and will feel downright inadequate if they lose Clowney.

      I also think the jury is still out, and will be for a while, on all of the offensive additions. Who knows if the OL will come together with so many changes? Does Olsen have much more in the tank as a 35 year old? Can either of the rookie TE’s contribute? Is Dorsett anything more than a journeyman? Lots of question marks on offense IMO.

      All of this leads me to the conclusion that it’s tough to say the Hawks are definitely better this year, although I would love to be proved wrong.

  29. James C says:

    Serious question – do you think Greg Olsen qualifies as a superstar Russ was looking for?

  30. charlietheunicorn says:

    Perhaps we should have SCOOB! on the case and solve the Seahawks mysteries!

  31. Kevin Mullen says:

    This offseason felt more “quantity over quality” in terms of the $50mil they spent. I do like the depth strength, but in terms of overall top talent get, IMO was mismanaged.

    I felt we lost more than gain, and that sucks.

  32. Bigten says:

    I had a thought on the replacing Al Woods situation, maybe we are waiting for the OL battle to sort itself out, I mean we are not keeping 18 Olineman. And then address that position with the money from who gets cut? And maybe Hawks are anticipating the same thing happening on other teams and that some DTs will become available in the same way. If that makes sense. For instance AZ seems like they have a log jam at DT, having drafted 2 and signing one in the off-season. And playing 3-4. Idk how many they would keep but I counted 7 decent guys on the inside alone. Ravens as well as talked about. Even Dallas has a log jam after signing more than a few and drafting a couple.

    • Rob Staton says:

      You can’t leave a position unaddressed on the off chance someone will eventually get cut that you like.

      • Bigten says:

        You also can’t leave a position unaddressed at all, which is what they have currently done. And this can’t be all on Waiting on Clowney. If they sign Clowney they are still going to need to address DT, signing him doesn’t change that. There isn’t an expensive one either that we would be waiting on. So something has to be on there mind. They mentioned the fact players get cut and they want to have cap space for moves like that.

        • Bigten says:

          Anyways, it was just a thought for discussion purposes. I know we all liked Trysten Hill and looks at tho he could be the odd man out in Dallas. Arizona also has some intriguing guys. Hill has not shown much to inspire confidence, but might be interesting.

          • dcd2 says:

            I’m with you Bigten. I mentioned Hill a couple of weeks ago (Rob thinks there’s no chance, FWIW), as well as Corey Peters from the Cards. There will most certainly be some DT’s available at cut-downs & It seems as if they are content to just take the best of what’s left to fill the DT role.

            They haven’t addressed it at all. As Sherlock Holmes would say: When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, is the answer.

            They are doing exactly that. Which is waiting to see who gets cut at DT and scooping up whichever looks the most appealing. Our next DT is almost certainly on someone else’s roster at the moment IMO.

            • Rob Staton says:

              There is 0% chance with Hill. No idea why people are even talking about it still.

              Quite aside from them giving up on a player after ONE YEAR, they’d have to pay twice as much to part with him than keep him!

              Come on people.

              • Bigten says:

                Different head coach than the one that drafted him for what it’s worth. Just going off the fact they signed 3 big name DLine in offseason, and drafted a few. Then looking at what some Dallas writers are discussing. Granted, just like Seahawks writers (aside from you Rob) they could know absolutely nothing about their team, but they surely know more than I do. I’m not saying it’s likely going to happen, not sure what the problem is discussing or bringing it up or why it’s a “come on people” moment tho. I haven’t seen people bring it up but maybe once. 2nd round picks haven’t always been immune to casualties, especially with a new coach, even if JJ is the one calling the shots. I do not know the details to why they would be paying double tho either.

                • Rob Staton says:

                  The head coach doesn’t draft the players in Dallas though. That change has no impact on what Jerry and co do.

                  I think the Dallas writers are getting ahead of themselves if they’re even saying he could go. Again, you’re talking about a team that never gives up on players (Randy Gregory) giving up on a R2 after one season and paying twice as much for the pleasure of watching him play somewhere else. That ain’t happening.

                  And if it did Seattle wouldn’t be racing to sign him anyway.

                  • dcd2 says:

                    I mentioned it in the other thread, but Rod Marinelli had a big hand in drafting both Taco and Hill. He’s gone. I agree with what you’re saying about the contract status though. The fact that it costs more to cut him than keep him makes it near certain (barring an arrest or blow up with coaches) they will not cut him.

                    My point is that it does seem like we are indeed waiting for roster cuts to make our last moves. You mentioned that you can’t leave a position unaddressed with hopes that cuts will free someone up. It seems like this is exactly what they are doing. Unless you think we won’t add a DT and that Reed/Poona/Christmas/Mone are adequate.

                • cha says:

                  They gave Taco Charlton 2 years before they cut him and ate $2.8m. Hill and Taco aren’t apples to apples, but that shows probably the very minimum they would try Hill out at, 2 full seasons before moving on.

                  • Bigten says:

                    The argument wasn’t that we would auto sign him when he is released. The argument was to discuss the possibility of him being released as an example of interesting players that could become available when cut downs come. For arguments sake, I also read that the cowboys would only be eating 1 mill if he is cut. Again, I’m not arguing for Hill or that he is going to be cut. Again, just trying to discuss possibilities moving forward.

                  • dcd2 says:

                    Here is the article I mentioned:

                    https://insidethestar.com/do-dt-signings-indicate-cowboys-are-done-with-trysten-hill/

                    As Rob mentions, the contract is not one you’d want to just cut. He’s got 3 years worth of bonus money and a year of guaranteed salary that would hit for a dead cap of $1.8M. It would cost them ~$780k to cut him. I could definitely see him being cut next year though.

                    Still, toss out Hill and the point is still valid. Our next DT is likely on someone else’s roster at this point. It doesn’t hurt to speculate on who that might be IMO.

    • Rob i truly believe that the Russell Wilson trade rumors to Cleveland are probably true. I believe that. I believe that Pete and John didn’t want a situation like Dallas is going through with Dak. Does anybody want that situation.Perhaps John wasn’t 100 percent sure that a deal could work and you better have a plan. B. 2022 could be interesting when Russ contract expires

  33. Its maybe time to be in the now. To wait to see if development bests talent. To allow what is to compete on the merits of truth. It may be time to see what is… give an honest opinion of that… be comfortable with that… and let the chips fall.

    We all we got… we all we need.

    Go Hawks.

  34. Kenny Sloth says:

    Bundesliga’s back

    Come on Schalke!! I missed sports so bad

    • Kenny Sloth says:

      I feel bad for you if you hate soccer or whatever.

      Guess you waitin for Dana White’s UFC island 😂🤣

      • Bigten says:

        “Dana White’s UFC Island” has already produced 2 events, in the last week, and another event tomorrow. Not sure what you mean by “waiting.” I know there are some Soccer fans on here, but I for one much prefer UFC, and not sure what’s wrong with that.

        • Sea Mode says:

          Nothin technically “wrong” with that. He’s just Kenny. 😁

          (But soccer is way better, for the record… 😜)

        • Kenny Sloth says:

          UFC is a lot of fun. I really like a good chunk of the roster. A lot of the hype and drama outshines the product imho.

          I was just trollin

      • Jeff108 says:

        3 UFC events in a week. UFC has stepped up. Fight Island or not. Go enjoy your soccer and pretend not to feel shame everytime one of your boys takes a dive and grabs that strategicly hurt, I mean, severely hurt for 2 minutes ankle.

    • Sea Mode says:

      Yo, Kenny. Did I miss “scouting the scouts 2020” or did it not happen… 😢

      • Kenny Sloth says:

        You didn’t miss it. I decided to skip it this year because i did the All WA HOF team

    • Kenny Sloth says:

      Well that was a bust. Just got the new kit too

  35. Matt says:

    I’m not convinced Dunbar is gone. The entire incident seems too stupid to be true. My guess is Baker is in more trouble than Dunbar but we’ll see. It doesn’t sound like it was any worse than what Bruce Irvin did before he was drafted. But I’m obviously going off second-hand info like everyone else so we’ll see.

    I mean, Patrick Chung was arrested for cocaine possession in a similary disputed/unclear situation last year and I don’t think he was even charged and wasn’t suspended so we’ll see, but my money is on the under for time missed by Dunbar. I sure hope I’m right because they really need him.

  36. Isaac says:

    I was happy to see that Dunbar may he cleared of these charges soon.

    The potential of Russell being traded in 2018 should have been real. The hawks were a much better team when they could spread Wilson’s salary around.

    This offseason has got me thinking if it’s time for a major shake up within the organization. Petes defense scheme has been figured out. JS hasn’t found a diamond in the rough like he did in the early days. Undrafted free agents aren’t coming in and making an impact like they used to. Do we need a change or are we afraid of this type of change?

    • Rob Staton says:

      It’s not been suggested at all that he’ll be cleared soon.

      Dunbar and Baker’s defense lawyers claim they have five letters suggesting they didn’t do anything wrong. The police say they have statements to the contrary. That’s it.

      • Tree says:

        This year’s draft (stud LB, 2 DEs, and 2 move TEs) as well as free agency (Irvin can play some SAM and Olson gives us a TE1 (dude is an alpha BTW if anyone listened to his recent press conference) does give us the flexibility to cut KJ, Hollister, & BJack to help sign Clowney, Griffin, cap casualties, or make a trade. I am excited to see who else we add.

        • Rob Staton says:

          1. They’re not cutting KJ. They would’ve done it ages ago. Do you honestly think they’re going to disrespect a legend like that? They would’ve cut him when they cut Britt and Fluker at the latest.

          2. They could’ve just not signed Hollister and had +$3m to spend when free agency was actually ongoing.

          3. They drafted a linebacker. Let’s see if he’s a stud when he actually plays. It’s too early to call him that.

          4. You shouldn’t have to be excited about players they might add in June and July.

          • Ashish says:

            they still might trade Hollister if they see good things from New bees.This is the year JS needs to shine with his draft picks

            • Rob Staton says:

              People keep saying they can cut or trade these guys. That’s all well and good — but there’s a massive difference between cap space in March and cap space in September.

              • Bigten says:

                I would think that is only true if FA ended in March or the player you want to sigh is gone in March, but when the player you are wanting to sign is still available, getting the cap space whenever before signing him is the key. Whether it’s March or August, it doesn’t matter. It only matters in March if the player that could have been signed, signs somewhere else in March. I’m not convinced cap space in March would have led to us doing anything different (as in signing any of the other FA DLine), as sad as that is.

                • mishima says:

                  Difference between ‘and’ and ‘or.’

                  IMO, they could have been more aggressive, done more with an extra $15-20 million. Instead they chose to fritter it away on mid-level free agents while neglecting to fix the pass rush.

                  Too many needs, bad approach, seemingly weird priorities.

                • Ashish says:

                  good point Rob and @BigTen

                • Rob Staton says:

                  Free agency did end in March.

                  The only difference this year is Clowney is still available. Which is unique.

                  And the Seahawks are only going to agree on their terms. So this idea they will suddenly cut a whole swathe of players to make any big splash just isn’t on the cards.

                  • Bigten says:

                    I agree, This is a unique situation. Just stating that cuts now ARE still relevant. Not saying they are going to happen, I highly highly doubt KJ is cut. But Cuts and trades are still relevant to creating space to sign a FA such as Clowney. If Free agency ended, then we wouldn’t be able to sign Clowney still. As far as what Mishima said, I’m not disagreeing with that. Could have and should have been aggressive. But having a few more Mil in free agency I’m not convinced would have made us more aggressive, because as Rob points out, it’s not like we were hamstrung by the cap. We could have made moves that we wanted, PC/JS CHOSE not to. They went with DLine guys they were familiar with. Because of KN wanting that with a short off season, PC wanting because a short offseason, idk. But that’s what they did. They chose to get them and stay patient and after Clowney.

      • Hawkdawg says:

        Again, the attorney doesn’t just have “letters.” He has, according to reports, “affidavits.”

        In court, there is a very large difference between the two. Affidavits are statements sworn to under penalty of perjury. Lying under oath is a crime.

        Now what is interesting here is, from what I’ve read, that the new affidavits are from the SAME witnesses who gave the prior sworn statements. If true, that messes up the prosecutor’s case pretty badly. The DA will in that case likely try to negotiate a plea deal to a lesser charge, depending on his or her evaluation of the witnesses in light of their contradictory affidavits–the issue will be their predictability, and credibility, at trial.

        The problem remains, though, that the NFL is watching, and if Dunbar pleads guilty to anything at all in connection with this mess, and even in fact if he’s lucky and gets the charges dismissed, he’s almost certainly going to get suspended. How long that suspension would last is very difficult to predict. Depends on a variety of factors, about which we do not yet know.

        • Rob Staton says:

          So a bunch of people report the two individuals to the police for armed robbery, numerous witnesses. And then a couple of days letter, don’t contact the police to say, ‘sorry that was just a ruse’ but write letters for the defense attorney for both players.

          With respect, my position is going to stay the same as it was yesterday. I’m going to let this play out.

  37. Sea Mode says:

    Dang, was just digging around for pass rushers and thought I found one off the radar, then JustBombs drops a highlights vid today…

    DE Xavier Thomas, Clemson (6-2, 265)

    Showed a lot of promise as a freshman, but then injury (he missed 2 games in Oct. with a concussion) and perhaps a scheme change contributed to an unproductive season last year. Perhaps also playing on Clemson’s loaded DL in 2018 had to do with it.

    Anyways, if he can get back to some of this, look out. Just the speed at which he gets that mass moving is impressive. Look at the athleticism on display in kick coverage, too:

    Xavier Thomas 2018 Highlights
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3LB8DjKyqE

    He has said he’s going to drop 10 lbs to play at 255 this year. Imagine if he can be even faster.

    Attitude seems right; now let’s see if he can deliver:

    “I’ve definitely got that edge back to me I had my freshman year,” Thomas said earlier this month.

    […]

    For his part Thomas felt he dropped off a bit due to buying into the publicity and high praise he received as a freshman.”I kind of got a big head I would say, an entitled mindset coming off my good freshman year and I definitely humbled myself,” Thomas said. “It was definitely internal. Only I know how my mindset was last year and how it’s going to be this year.

    Thomas said he’s worked hardest on improving his knowledge and technique and also wants to drop about 10 pounds to play at 255 this fall. He’s been watching a lot more film and working on the nuances of his position.

  38. Jeff108 says:

    Clemson players dont stay off the radar. Your “find” isnt much of a find in the college football landscape. Duude is and has been known.

    • Jeff108 says:

      5 star recruit. 4th overall recruit on ESPN Top 300 out of HS. 2x HS All American at IMG. Fresman All American and 3rd team All ACC. Not a find. He is on everyone’s radar.

    • mishima says:

      Never heard of him.

      Links, quotes, measurables.

      Thankful that he was brought to my attention.

  39. cha says:

    It is interesting to note that the Seahawks have always preferred to shop closer to the rummage sale than Saks 5th Avenue for their pass rushers.

    They got Avril and Bennett initially when their market was significantly cooler than expected.

    They extended both on contracts that were very team-reasonable.

    They did franchise Frank Clark but traded him rather than extend him at a Demarcus Lawrence rate of pay.

    And now they’re seemingly staking their offseason on Clowney agreeing to their terms.

    Not sure you can point to all these and say they have an iron-clad organizational philosophy not to commit top market salary for pass rushers, but there definitely is a pattern.

    Still. Very strange to have a system in place that is predicated on getting pressure from your front 4 and yet consistently play hardball with the proven performers in that area.

    • Edgar says:

      That is why I call us Green Bay West. Wilson takes us to the playoffs but the style of play along with our personnel by playoff time just can’t get past the divisional round. But I guess it’s ok to be the Portland TrailBlazers of the NFL the last 5 years.

    • Ashish says:

      maybe we are overreacting? You brought some good points there may be +ve from this off-season. I believe we will trade or sign someone good at 53 roster cuts.

      • cha says:

        I’m not overreacting. In what universe is trading or signing someone after the cuts NOT closer to shopping at the rummage sale than Saks 5th Avenue?

  40. charlietheunicorn says:

    Crap, another NFL player popped for multiple felonies…..
    no OTAs or team activities are having a big “negative” impact upon guys staying clean this offseason. Hopefully some normalcy can return soon… for everyone’s sake.

  41. RSA says:

    Not sure that this has been said already, but even if so it’s worth saying again. It seems that there is a general malaise due to the quarantine, and more particularly pessimism regarding the Seahawks’s offseason moves. That is understandable. It seems, however, that this malaise and this pessimism is leading people to simply assume that Dunbar and Baker are guilty until proven innocent. The thing is, people are accused of crimes they didn’t commit ALL THE TIME. More specifically, BLACK people are accused, and even convicted, of crimes they didn’t commit ALL THE TIME. Our justice system is so effed up in part because people make this sort of casual assumption ALL THE TIME, brushing off the reality of structural racism as if doing so were merely a matter of “common sense,” or even a “clever joke.” Even if a given person is eventually proven guilty, the assumption of innocence prior to such proof is essential. Otherwise, we should give up all pretense that there’s anything like justice in this country.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Not one single person has assumed they are guilty.

      I wrote that it’s likely Dunbar won’t play for the Seahawks and I still think that is likely unless the case is thrown out. As it stands, the police have been quite clear that they have witness statements stating what happened and an arrest warrant has been issued.

      Meanwhile, MANY people have been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt simply because the people they pay to defend them… are defending them. And the motivation for that is almost certainly because one of the individuals plays for the Seahawks.

      I have said numerous times now in the last 24 hours… the situation has to play out. And it does. Nothing more, nothing less.

      And for what it’s worth, I have no interest in a long political discussion about social justice. There are plenty of other forums for that discussion. This isn’t the place.

      • WALL UP says:

        I’ve hesitated in commenting on this subject, because I’ve seen this so many times in my 71 yrs of existence. Lost opportunities due to senseless acts upon others.

        I’ve heard responses such as “Dumb & Dumber” bandied about to represent the actions of the players, thinking that these millionaire athletes would risk their careers for the spoil of $70,000 (?)max, to be split between (3) players. Some even mocked, ridiculed, or simply laughed at the accusations against them.

        To me it was sad. As a person of color, I’ve seen both sides of this coin. Personally, I’ve seen talented human beings of color, throw away all their potential on senseless acts of unnecessary crimes. So many of our black youth today are enamored by roles that are depicted by the media’s movie industry that they loss site of reality. It is really sad when this does occur in real life.

        But, I’ve also witnessed the cold side of society when people of color are labeled without a fair sense of justice. Greed does cause some to take advantage of others by bearing false witness against one who is in a better financial position, in order to gain unjust profits from him. I’m not saying this is the case with Dunbar & Baker. But, it could be.

        My first reaction to the incident was simple disbelief. How could someone risk their entire livelihood on such a small amount, (~$23,000/each). They must know the implications of what their actions would bring, why give millions away for some small chump change. It simply still doesn’t add up. Now, with this new twist from the attorneys, there is still smell that persists.

        From having a perspective from both sides, I’ve been hesitant to rush to judgment on things until all the true facts are presented. You would hate to see a talented player ruin his life in such a way.

        • Rob Staton says:

          Again, people need to let this play out.

          I don’t see the defense attorney’s doing anything other than what they are paid to do (Dunbar’s can’t even spell his name correctly for crying out loud). I also don’t think it’s worth speculating on motives. At the end of the day — if you’re willing to gamble away $70,000 in a day as per TMZ’s report, you might not have the ‘millions’ people assume you have. So who knows what financial position they’re in. It’s best just to let this play out.

        • McZ says:

          The worst side of the story is really this… these kids are going to college, what is the education premium in the US, and come out effectively uneducated. And this is not a problem if you’re black or white or Asian or Latino, it’s a problem of broken standards.

          The schools have grown completely indifferent to the output they create. This whole NCAA system is overcommercialized, it leads to missing the boat on the first task an education system has… setting an example what this society defines as its elite.

          Last weak, the editor of MIT Tech Review, Mr David Rotman, pointed to the fact, how the selfcentered, fast buck mentality leads the US to being incapable to produce the simplest medical equipment.

          Here, we have low education and fast buck at its finest. Either, by NFL pros being that stupid, or by people making false claims to get a bit of fast money.

          Plus – we have to say it – why can a ordinary guy get a semi automatic weapon?

  42. Rob Staton says:

    Quick review of the last 24 hours to give you a bit of insight…

    — One person tweeted me to say I’m not running the blog/community properly. He also said I’m losing patrons as a consequence (I’ve lost one and gained one this week, so not sure where he got that from).

    — One person emailed me to tell me the blog sucks because of my ‘man crush’ with Jadeveon Clowney and therefore they won’t read any more.

    — I’ve had to moderate numerous comments.

    Fun times.

    • Gaux Hawks says:

      unfortunately this also accurately reflects our current state of politics too. very sad.

      • Gaux Hawks says:

        as soon as i submitted this i regretted it, excuse my last post. let’s focus on the hawks.

        • Group Captain Mandrake says:

          You aren’t wrong though. Whether you are a democrat, republican, or otherwise, the knee jerk reaction seems to be to oppose whatever the other side is trying to accomplish simply because they are looked at as the enemy. We live in an extremely polarized time, and social media just doesn’t help at all. Everyone can say whatever pops into their head, and accuse anyone of pretty much anything with no ramifications.

    • Seahawk65 says:

      Stay the course, Rob. This is the best blog going. I don’t agree with everything, but truly enjoy it. Thanks for doing it.

    • KennyBadger says:

      I think many of us read this blog and the boards because it’s a place for reasonable discussions whether we agree or not. I know that losing patrons = losing money but this community will be stronger without the dead weight. Let them complain over at FG. Thanks again for what you do Rob, and keep the skin thick.

      • pdway says:

        + 1 on the moderating appreciation.

        it’s a big difference maker in the enjoyment level of this site.

        As I’ve said before – – i’m pretty new here — – can’t wait for the hawk talk and analysis/opinions of you and all the smart fans on here — once we actually have some football games to talk about on monday mornings after. . .

        • Derek says:

          Add me too, I know it’s hard not to focus on the negatives but I think the volume of readers and comments show the majority appreciate this site very much! Content, reader contribution and moderation are all part of what makes this place great and keep me coming back!

    • Rob Staton says:

      Now I’m being accused in the comments of assuming Dunbar is guilty and am having to moderate comments about that.

      Seriously. The amount of rubbish is unreal sometimes.

      • Simo says:

        I for one hope you can ignore, or move past, the rubbish Rob. What you do here, the writing and commentary you provide is second to none. Hopefully the enjoyment outweighs the nonsense. This is such a great place to share thoughts and ideas about the Seahawks and football! You’re doing great work my man.

      • Tien says:

        Sorry for the complaints that you’re getting Rob. I and 99% of the people on this blog really appreciate all the amazing content that you’ve produced and the moderating that you’ve done on this site to make it our favorite Seahawks football blog!

        And I’m with you on the Dunbar incident! His defense attorney is doing his job with the announcement in the press about the affadavits. I’ll be very happy if it turns out Dunbar is innocent but none of us know what happened that night so will have to wait for the Court to sort it out.

      • Lewis says:

        So great to not have to go to a place like FG to get some football discussion. Thanks, Rob, as always.

      • Kenny Sloth says:

        If the scheme fits you must acquit

    • BruceN says:

      That would be two that didn’t care for the blog. I think looking at the number and the engagement of comments it’s safe to assume the percentages look pretty good in your favor. Ignore the pair and keep doing what you’re doing. Most of us appreciate the quality you put out here.

  43. Today our client Quintin Dunbar voluntarily surrendered at the Broward County jail pursuant to a bogus arrest warrant based solely on uncorroborated witness statements that have since been recanted. As I write this an innocent man sits in jail, facing charges that hold no water. https://t.co/HkIps6x04u

    • Big Mike says:

      He left out: “Oh and by the way Quinton, my bill is in the mail”.
      Forgive my cynicism but it comes with the territory of being in my mid-60s. As I think it was Rob said above, he’s being paid to say this stuff.

      All that said, I truly hope he’s not guilty, charges are dropped and he has a helluva season in Seahawks uniform.

      • TomLPDX says:

        I was reading the Florio article about it and the lawyer misspelled Quinton’s name as well. Pretty bad as far as I’m concerned.
        https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/05/16/quinton-dunbar-turns-himself-in/

        • Big Mike says:

          And misspelled it over and over. Look Florio’s a douche but he’s also an attorney and one that actually practiced law for a number of years so when he suggests a legal course of action I trust his judgement.

          • TomLPDX says:

            I actually like Florio, but take him with a big grain of salt. He definitely gets on his soapbox sometimes but in general is a good reporter of what is happening (sprinkled with a huge amount of opinion!). He is one of my favorites.

            • pdway says:

              Florio has put a nice business together w PFT – but he also loves to stir the pot for clicks, like plenty of other websites. His top headline of “Baker and Dunbar Remain at Large” – – was designed to look like they were on the run – and it seems the truth was more that their attys were in contact w the police dept the whole time.

              He also never ever practiced criminal law.

  44. Huggie Hawk says:

    Thanks for all the moderating you do Rob, I can only imagine. Snarky humor is always welcome; I think between Earl and this situation it’s entirely warranted. Normally I am overly optimistic by nature, but I am unimpressed with Hawks so far this off-season, though I mostly liked the draft. Let’s see if they can finalize some of the oft-discussed moves (d line). Go Hawks!

  45. McZ says:

    “In Oakland, Mayowa’s production fit in alongside Maxx Crosby, Clelin Ferrell and Maurice Hurst collectively providing 18 sacks.”

    If we omit Ferrell, who was a high pick… that’s two mid rounder rookies of the last two drafts, who are actually providing sacks and pressures.

    When, oh, when can we finally, once again, draft DL players that are actually performing?
    Teach us, Mr Robinson, teach us!

  46. Quinton Dunbar appeared before a judge in Broward County this morning. He is being released on a $100K bond and he has to surrender any firearms to police within 48 hours.

    • I guess you dont set the bond at 100.000usd if you dont have evidence someone did something. Am I wrong?

      • Rob Staton says:

        Sure, but the police have already made it clear they had witness statements and thus that is why the arrest warrant was issued. So they are likely proceeding as you’d expect.

        A defense attorney then ‘getting five letters the day after the arrest warrant’ needs to be looked into as part of an overall investigation. If I were looking at this case, I would need to work out what on earth has actually happened here — before and after the alleged incident.

      • pdway says:

        Bail could have been set much higher- judge also could have said no bail. This seems like a normal, appropriate number.

        Being out on bail while awaiting charges is actually a pretty big advantage compared to the vast majority of defendants – who don’t have the resources, and have to wait it out in jail. Besides the obvious advantage of being free and not in jail – – every day a defendant is out in the world, and not getting in trouble, it makes him look like more of a normal citizen, and less like a criminal defendant.

      • charlietheunicorn says:

        Bail is set to keep a person in the area, to reduce the risk of flight from the city/county/state/country. If a person has assets of large sums of cash or stock or liquid capitol, then the bail tends to be set higher. If the crime is “heinous” then the bond/bail will be set higher or not even allowed by the Judge.

        I wouldn’t read anything into this part of the process. Everything is pretty much standardized for any person accused of committing this type of crime. Fortunately no one was injured or killed during this “hold-up”.

  47. #Giants CB DeAndre Baker appeared before a judge in Broward County this morning. He is being released on a $200K bond and he has to surrender his carry permit and firearm to police. He can’t leave the state of Florida and is also not allowed any contact with victims in the case.

  48. hawkfanforetenity says:

    Rob,
    Before the Dunbar story broke you’d mentioned that you thought the Seahawks were taking less risks in their personnel moves then in the past. I was wondering if you’d elaborate? Are you referring to their pro acquisitions (trades and FA signings), or in the draft?

    Following up on that, what type of risk? In the draft I see three risk types: character, injury and potential vs. production. What shift are you seeing, and do you see it as a positive trend?

    For what it’s worth, I see Taylor, Robinson and Parkinson somewhat as players whose production didn’t match their physical profile and potential.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I said they’re being more conservative and being less risk averse. No big trades. No bold moves. Just low level free agent additions, trying to take 100 shots in the hope that a handful pan out, placing a huge emphasis on ‘meetings’ in the draft process and selecting the players, in their words, ‘that they want to coach’. Not being as pro-active to fill holes. Trying to let the process come to them but equally there’s a chance it never will. That sort of stuff.

      • hawkfanforetenity says:

        Thanks Rob. Do you see this as a conscious change in direction, or could it be that the big moves they may have wanted to make weren’t there for the players they wanted? Either the trade price being to high for their liking (perhaps Ngakoue or Stefon Diggs), the player having a preferred preference (Calais Campbell), or perhaps being a player they weren’t as interested in as fans might have been (DeAndre Hopkins perhaps). I’m just wondering if perhaps they were swinging, but just struck out this off-season. Or perhaps they hamstrung themselves by misjudging the Clowney situation as you’ve suggested.

        • Rob Staton says:

          Not sure to be honest.

          I’ve got some rough thoughts why they’ve gone this route but none of it is particularly positive and it’s all speculative.

          • Scot04 says:

            Would love to hear the thoughts. Even if they are not positive. Could make for a very interesting read.
            I think the unbiased articles and information you bring always makes for great discussion. I know i don’t want to constantly see things painting everything positive , even if it is our Seahawks.
            Again thanks for all the content, it is always great to have; but especially during these times.

          • mishima says:

            Sometimes it feels like they’re prepping for a transition, be it ownership, front office, coaching, like they’re operating from a 2-3 plan.

            Sorry if too weird, speculative.

            • Rob Staton says:

              I don’t think they’re prepping for a transition. I think if anything they’ve solidified the existing regime with their moves. They’ve made Carroll and Wilson the focal points.

              • mishima says:

                Totally agree: Carroll and Wilson are the focal point.

                Hopefully the brand hasn’t replaced the product.

                Will not be surprised if Schneider moves on; devastated if the trust decides to sell.

  49. Cortez Kennedy says:

    If Clowney goes somewhere else, we basically did nothing this offseason. As it stands, we have a lot riding on Taylor, Green and Collier.

    • BobbyK says:

      Isn’t it amazing that a team could have a lot of cap space and 3 picks in the first 2 rounds and it’s possible to not have a better team? At least on paper?

      I also remember thinking they had more than their fair share of good fortune last year (like the two makable [should have been made]. An example is two FGs that division opponents missed that turned losses into wins. You can’t expect that to be sustained long-term.

      Even easily winnable games weren’t easy or made easier than they should have been. The Bengals were 2-14 and were blown out in a majority of their losses and even they almost beat the Seahawks. There were only 3 times the Bengals lost by 3 points (they lost by at least 20 3 times and almost half of their losses were by double digits) or less and one was the 1 point loss in Seattle.

      It’s so frustrating and maddening to think they can’t/shouldn’t be better with lots of cap space and those picks. I can see where teams with cap issues go into the following season worse, but when you have cap space available AND 3 picks in the first 2 rounds? I just don’t get it.

      • mishima says:

        If they had gone 8-8 (possible), would have been a different off-season. Maybe.

      • cha says:

        BobbyK it feels like you’re cherry-picking positive bounces from the 2019 season to prove your point.

        How about some of the bounces that went against them?

        A fumble recovery TD and the punt return TD vs New Orleans.

        The no-PI call at the end of the Niner game Week 17.

        The no flag on the late hit on RW vs Pittsburgh that could have really hurt him.

        The refs gifting Freddie Kitchens extra timeouts because he doesn’t understand the NFL rulebook.

        • BobbyK says:

          The Pittsburgh and Cleveland calls have nothing to do with the Seahawks and losing. They still won both games. The Steelers losing Big Ben in the Steelers game (more luck for the Seahawks) had more to do with the Seahawks winning that game than a singular hit (which, I agree, was a BS non-call).

          With calls and non-calls… every team in the NFL gets some calls that go their way in a given year and calls where the opponents have a legit gripe that they got screwed. Those typically even out during the course of the season (although teams can get screwed in individual games; see SB40).

          But plays teams make and don’t make have to do with teams themselves and sometimes you get lucky when your opponent can’t execute in a given situation in a scenario or other game where they normally would make the plays (like the percentage of FGs made – where we won two games where opposing kickers failed to execute kicks they normally make).

          Special teams are absolutely part of the NFL. Saying the Saints got a punt return for a TD makes no sense. It wasn’t a bad call. It was ineptitude by the Seahawks. Bad play. It wasn’t “luck.” That Saints punt returner was one of the best this year. And Chris Carson fumbles more than average. That leads to turnovers. It’s not the Saints fault the Seahawks have a RB who fumbles too much. If anything, it’s on the Seahawks for relying on a RB who gets hurt every year in a row and misses some time for 7 years in a row now (dating to college) and fumbles more than the average RB. When you acquire players who rarely fumble – they’re going to fumble less than others. When you get a guy who drops passes more than others – he’s probably still going to drop passes more than others (a reason I like the Parkinson pick in R4 this past year – he doesn’t drop passes).

          • cha says:

            So you’re saying the LAR and SF missed FG’s were Seahawks luckies but the the Saints punt return allowed was Seahawks ineptitude? Nope. You can’t have it both ways.

  50. Rob Staton says:

    As I suspected would happen, the prosecution is now actively questioning why the witnesses have provided affidavits to the defense lawyer:

    https://twitter.com/BradyHenderson/status/1262036125582946305?s=20

    And really, that needs to be investigated as much as anything else as this plays out.

    • Bigten says:

      Again, I think as you have mentioned, we all need to let this play out. Both sides are presenting it the way they want to, and the truth is subjective. Facts are objective, and those will take time to get out. It is not unusual for witnesses to do this very thing, recant or clarify their story while the police cling to their first impression, and it not be bribery. I have the upmost respect for police officers, however, I have been involved with intake situations where the information put on an arrest warrant is not the correct representation of the facts given. For all we know, the police heard that Dunbar showed up with Baker, Baker committed these crimes, and Dunbar fled. That could easily be presented incorrectly to state that Dunbar was involved directly. The witness could have been upset at the time and wanted to take out on Dunbar even, and eluded to it. I think the fact that it has only been recanted against Dunbar is very significant, and not in the way the prosecutor is eluding to. This prosecutor looked like he was grasping at straws, presenting it trying to do HIS job, which unfortunately for most prosecutors is not what they should be doing. It should be the prosecutors job to find the truth, when they usually are just trying to send whoever to prison and get a could record of such. You climb the ladder by sending people to prison, guilty or not, and not on finding the truth.

    • pdway says:

      Of course he is – – but, that other tweet by Brady was the first i’d heard the content of the affidavits. It’s very specific, and the language is not couched at all. There is no way those witnesses are going to be credible enough to win a conviction at this point. If they were to flip again and say Dunbar did it – – the defense atty can play that cross-examination 101 card of q’s, “were you lying under oath then, or are you lying under oath now? which one is the one we are to believe?” no way that doesn’t cause reasonable doubt in the minds of a jury, when the only evidence is the witness testimony.

      now, if other evidence comes up (i.e. that Dunbar or Dunbar’s associates threatened or bribed the witnesses) – that’s a very different story. But absent that, or some other evidence that we don’t yet know about, I think Dunbar walks on this.

      • Rob Staton says:

        Whatever happens there should be a thorough investigation and that’s the point. Whether he walks or not, that impacts the Seahawks.

    • cha says:

      “You see officer, we were holding this illegal gambling party at our house…ow!…and we had collected over $100,000 in bets…OW!…why do you keep kicking me under the table?!”

  51. Trevor says:

    Could the new ownership structure be part of this bizarre off season. With all the uncertainty surrounding f the season and revenue maybe JS has been given a budget and a long term deal 3-4 years with a lot of guarenteed $ was not in the budget parameters.

    If you look at how they structured all the deals they were short term 1 -2 yrs with little guarenteed $. Maybe they see the revenues and cap going down or at least really uncertain and ownership wants flexibility going forward. Being owned by a trust is far different than being owned by one of the richest men on the planet even if his sister is now the head of that trust.

    I personally think the Hawks will be sold at some point in the next 2-3 years and I get the weird feeling this off season has been impacted by it. Still does not explain the signing of every journeyman OL on the free agent market howver. One thing for sure I can’t wait for a actually sports to start up again and I pray nothing happens so that they call get postponed further or cancelled for the year +.

    • mishima says:

      Agree. Suggested similar, above.

      Outside of Wilson/Wagner, not a lot of long term commitments.

      I bet it’s one more run with Wilson, Carroll, Paul Allen Trust, maybe Schneider.

    • cha says:

      Good question to ask, but I really doubt it.

      Paul Allen passed away, and 2 months later PC was signed to an extension. About 6 months later RW was signed to a record making extension.

      Have to think if they were going for payroll flexibility, those two guys wouldn’t have gotten extended.

      • Trevor says:

        There is a big difference between signing a HC and Franchise QB than there is giving out a big deal to an edge rusher with a questionable njury history.

        • cha says:

          I suppose, but “giving a big deal to an edge rusher with a questionable injury history” isn’t necessarily something a smart personnel office would do anyway. I suspect that has more to do with the Seahawks not inking Clowney to some massive $90m contract than a mandate from ownership. It’s standard risk leveraging.

    • Michael Hasslinger says:

      I agree with this thought. This is the first year JS has discussed liquidity as a measure for roster development. I do think Jodie will sell the team.

      The Raiders traded the DE to the Bears due to liquidity issues, not contract demands.

      I would be sad to see the Allen’s sell the team… but the markers of such a position are becoming transparent.

      I hope we are wrong. I lived in D.C. from ’94-2002… it became a barren wasteland of pro football very quickly there.

  52. Hoggs41 says:

    Could possibly be but I doubt we would ever know it. If anyone is big into the salary cap go take a look at the Eagles cap for 2021.

    • EranUngar says:

      I thought it funny you should ask about the Eagles 2021 cap, then I checked it.

      Wentz at 34M, Cox at 22M and 10 more players over 10M – In totall they are 50M OVER THE CAP….

      • EranUngar says:

        Ohhh shit, I checked it further and most of those players carry dead cap close to or higher than their actual cap hit.

        This is going to turn very ugly….

        Carson Wentz QB ($59,220,614) $34,673,536
        Fletcher Cox DT ($15,303,000) $22,447,000
        Alshon Jeffery WR ($10,659,500) $18,536,500
        Brandon Graham DE ($17,212,000) $17,928,000
        Lane Johnson RT ($33,074,500) $16,501,500
        Darius Slay CB ($21,750,000) $15,750,000
        Javon Hargrave DT ($22,550,000) $15,200,000
        Brandon Brooks G ($13,032,943) $14,554,235
        Malik Jackson DT ($12,644,000) $13,611,000
        Zach Ertz TE ($7,769,500) $12,721,500
        DeSean Jackson WR ($5,802,000) $10,934,000
        Derek Barnett DE $10,051,000
        Jason Kelce C ($10,142,000) $8,414,000

        Read it and weep…

  53. Rob Staton says:

    Recording a podcast tonight with the UK Seahawkers

  54. Michael Hasslinger says:

    Perhaps Seattle is betting on player development and coaching to win in 2020. That is a more long-term solution. That is a “Win Forever” concept. Most free agents peak year 1. Thus, they may feel Clowney has “peaked”.

    I realize my comments this month do not jive with the thought process here at SDB. That said, I appreciate being able to express some dissonance with the herd.

    Seattle, right or wrong, trusts their process, their coaches, their players. They trust them much more than we seem to.

    Ultimately, this leadership group will be judged on the merits of their results. Based on historical performance, it will be a good performance.

    I will pass judgement on Seahawks brass 2019-2021 based on what KC is able to do 2021-2024.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Please, it’s nothing to do with a herd mentality or a collective thought process. If you have a different take that’s fine. The majority of people acknowledge what is the most likely outcome — that this simply hasn’t been a very good off-season. There’s nothing wrong with that and it doesn’t constitute group think.

      It’s highly unlikely they set out to bet on player development. They might be forced into that. But it wasn’t the plan. I have saved quotes throughout the combine before and after. A number of strongly worded, determined statements of needing to get the pass rush fixed and sorted. Talk of premier pass rushers at the LEO and dynamic five techniques. There is absolutely no way they said all that while picturing LJ Collier and Rasheem Green. I’ve discussed in some depth the problems I think they encountered thanks to the unpredictable nature of the Clowney stalemate. But I also don’t think it excuses inactivity. They’ve seemingly been caught between being quite laid back about Clowney and are willing to risk losing him… while also believing he’s their best option (and thus, they seem to be waiting for him and saving money for him). It’s an odd half-way house that threatens to instigate another poor defensive season.

      The leadership group can already be judged on their results. The defense was among the worst in the league last year in practically every pass rush category plus in run defense and missed tackles and it prevented them from being serious contenders for the Super Bowl. The fact the quarterback is good enough to consistently maintain a high floor in terms of win/loss record doesn’t mean everything is good or that criticism isn’t warranted. They needed to fix the defense and it’s virtually impossible to look at what they’ve done so far and say anything is fixed.

      And I find the last statement bizarre. I’m certainly not waiting four years to judge the Seahawks — and my judgement will be based on what they do. Not the Chiefs.

      • Simo says:

        Well said! At the same time everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs about what the team has done so far this offseason, and what they may yet do.

        I definitely feel unfulfilled and left wanting more! The offseason started out with so much optimism about fixing the pass rush and run defense, and yet that really hasn’t happened. Just can’t believe Irvin and Mayowa are the answers, with some improvement from Green and Collier. Taylor and maybe even Robinson have some potential, but probably not much in 2020.

        Maybe we will give PC/JS ultimate credit once this is all over, if Clowney comes back and the other additions provide a significant boost to the overall play of the defense. Maybe they nab Griffen along with Clowney? There is still time, but so far the offseason moves seem inadequate.

    • cha says:

      Ultimately, this leadership group will be judged on the merits of their results. Based on historical performance, it will be a good performance.

      That’s the problem right there. Years and years of “good performance.” Enough to make the playoffs but not enough to take the next step into SB contention. And with an all-world QB in his prime, you should be maximizing that window.

      This year, the first offseason in years, the Hawks have had the ability to really address big needs, and they have a serious need on the DL. And they’ve spent so much money on depth players and situational role players, the best we can say is, they’ve managed to keep the team….good.

      • Rob Staton says:

        Meanwhile…

        The Niners and Rams have both been in the SB with inferior QB’s in the last two seasons.

        Which is another reason why ‘good’ isn’t good enough.

        • cha says:

          And GB, the team that rarely ventures in FA, saw a need and went out and bought bookend rushers last year.

  55. Gaux Hawks says:

    “In Oakland, Mayowa’s production fit in alongside Maxx Crosby, Clelin Ferrell and Maurice Hurst collectively providing 18 sacks.”

    18 sacks from rookies on the DL… OMG!

    • Simo says:

      Yep, pretty nice to get that type of production out of such young guys! Think Ferrell was a pretty high pick though, and Crosby might be considered a very pleasant surprise!!

    • Hoggs41 says:

      Hurst wasnt a rookie though. He was a second year player but still good production from the young guys.

    • dcd2 says:

      Yep, that’s insane. I’m so bummed that we didn’t take a shot on Hurst, but I understand it. He was my #1 hope for us to draft. I hoped we’d be able to get him in the 1st, but that was before the heart condition news.

      Also, Hurst was two years ago, so not a rookie. They took PJ Hall (remember him from Sam Houston St) in that draft. Two good looking DT’s in ’18 and two good looking DE’s in ’19. This year they took 3 WR’s. They also got Jacobs and Abram in round one last year. Raiders are quietly building an exciting young team. They got Amik Robertson and John Simpson in round 4 this year. Really liking what they have been doing since Mayock got there.

      • mishima says:

        AFC West is becoming a fun + competitive division. KC/Mahomes safe for awhile because Lock, Herbert, Carr.

        • Hoggs41 says:

          For sure will be a fun one to watch. That thing will get even more competitive once Mahomes gets paid.

        • dcd2 says:

          Denver got Jeudy and KJ Hamler to go with Sutton and Fant. Should be a fun offense. Lock looked pretty good at the end of last year.

          Chargers are strange one. They were 12-4 two years ago and then the wheels fell off last year, and they went 5-11.

          I agree that things are looking up for that division.

  56. Gohawks5151 says:

    Pretty interesting scenario here. I figured I’d post it since there are a lot of Pac 12 fans here. It would be nuts to see.

    https://www.profootballnetwork.com/top-college-players-entering-nfl-supplemental-draft-2020/

  57. Volume12 says:

    Florida St. WR Tamorrion Terry (6’4, 215 lbs.) is freaky! Phyiscal blocker, tough after the catch. Might be the best deep ball threat in the country. His build, the way he glides, the athleticism, is all very similar to someone. I refuse to mention anyone in the same breath as him. As a prospect that is.

    Size, speed, production (on a dog s**t team). If he puts it all together he’s a 1st round talent.

  58. Troy says:

    I’m jonesing for a new Seahawksdraftblog article. Fingers crossed for an in depth piece on our new pass rushers, Darrell Taylor and Alton Robinson.

  59. cha says:

    I never agree with the rankings in these types of articles but they do give you a big glance recap of the offseason moves so far.

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29180831/ranking-2020-nfl-offseasons-worst-first-barnwell-all-32-teams

  60. BoiseSeahawk says:

    Hey Rob, if you have time take a look into WSU RB, Max Borghi this year.

    Still a season left to play to see where he is projected but as of now isn’t getting much attention.
    Same HS/Trains with Christian McCaffrey and has held that lofty comparison since he started at WSU.
    Dual threat back with solid improvement in production the last 2 years.
    5’10”, 197 (will need to add weight to be a seahawk) but seems like he’s worth looking into.

    I’m sure you have better sources than JustBombsProductions on YouTube but here’s the latest on him:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7krZIhGwcuw

    • Simo says:

      Love Borghi, all that guy does is make solid plays! He’s not like CMC though, don’t think he has that much shiftiness or acceleration. He’s not spectacular, but catches very well out of the backfield, pass protects nicely, and gains tough yards. I think he would be an excellent third down type RB.

      • BoiseSeahawk says:

        Agreed, comping him to CMC is a stretch.
        Maybe he’s a 4th/5th round player?

        Other Pac-12 players I’d be happy for the hawks to consider are:
        1. Paulson Adebo, CB, Stanford
        2. Joe Tryon. Edge, Washington
        3. Hamilcar Rashed Jr Edge, Oregon State
        (Sewell won’t be an option unless we really flop in 2020)