Haason Reddick is a legit option for the Seahawks at #26
He’s their type of player — relentless, understated, he’s faced adversity and he’s a tremendous athlete. There were some concerns about his size but not any more. Today he measured at 6-1 and a half and 236lbs. That’s big enough for a versatile outside linebacker.
At his junior pro-day, Reddick reportedly ran a 4.47 forty, jumped a 10-10 in the broad and a 36-inch vertical. He also had 22.5 TFL’s in 2016 and 10.5 sacks.
In December I mocked Reddick to the Seahawks with their top pick, noting Seattle’s penchant for freaky athletes in the early rounds. Lance Zierlein ranks Reddick in his top-25 overall on NFL.com, noting:
Explosive, quick-twitch athlete. Great flexibility with loose hips to turn, twist, and chase. Excellent reactive quickness and change-of-direction agility. Dynamic playmaker in space. Locks onto targets and instantly accelerates to the ball. Has athleticism in space and necessary instincts to be legit cover talent as linebacker. Rushes with good bend and forward lean. Difficult to handle on tackle/end twists back inside. Turns corner with tight track to quarterback once he pries the edge open.
Zierlein compares him to Pittsburgh linebacker Ryan Shazier. He likely won’t reach Shazier’s freaky levels of athleticism (42 inch vertical!) but he won’t be far behind.
Linebacker isn’t the biggest of Pete Carroll’s admitted key needs (secondary, O-line, linebacker) but consider this: what do you do if the top two offensive tackles (Bolles & Ramcyzk) and 4-5 of the best cornerbacks are off the board?
Riddick’s an intense, impact defender on a defense needing a couple of extra dogs. Sadly, it won’t be a surprise if he rises into the top-25.
The cornerback market got a little thinner for Seattle today
Only two cornerbacks at the Senior Bowl measured with 32-inch arms. Why is this important? The Seahawks haven’t drafted a single corner with sub-32 inch arms in the Pete Carroll era:
Tye Smith (2015): 32 inch arms
Eric Pinkins (2014): 32 1/8 inch arms
Tharold Simon (2013): 32 3/4 inch arms
Jeremy Lane (2012): 32 inch arms
Richard Sherman (2011): 32 inch arms
Byron Maxwell (2011): 33 1/2 inches
Walter Thurmond (2010): 32 3/4 inches
There are different heights among this group. Thurmond is 5-11 but Richard Sherman 6-3. The one consistent feature is arm length.
Today only Rasul Douglas (CB, West Virginia) and Marquez White (CB, Florida State) topped the 32-inch cut-off.
So here’s the rub. Douglas and White won’t necessarily be drafted by the Seahawks — but it’s more likely than any of the following:
Corn Elder (CB, Miami) — 30 7//8 inch arms
Tre’Davious White (CB, LSU): 31 4/8 inch arms
Cam Sutton (CB, Tennessee): 29 2/8 inch arms
Damontae Kazee (CB, San Diego State): 29 7/8 inch arms
Ezra Robinson (CB, Tennessee State): 31 3/8 inch arms
Desmond King (CB, Iowa): 29 7/8 inch arms
Brendan Langley (CB, Lamar): 31 3/8 inch arms
Jourdan Lewis (CB, Michigan): 31 inch arms
Aarion Penton (CB, Missouri): 29 5/8 inch arms
Is it possible they make an exception for the right player one day? Sure. Tre’Davious White in particular is a really good corner and he’s nearly at 31.5 inches. If it was to happen though, he’d be the first cornerback in seven years they drafted with sub-32 inch arms. That’s a trend you can’t ignore.
Offensive line class fails to measure up too
The Seahawks have a need at tackle. Generally teams like their tackles to have +34 inch arms for obvious reasons defending the edge.
Seattle’s recent three first round O-line picks hit the mark. Russell Okung and Germain Ifedi have 36-inch arms. James Carpenter is at 34-inches.
It’s not a strict theory. Justin Britt, a starter at right tackle as a rookie, has 33.5-inch arms. That might be the cut-off point.
A year ago many teams viewed Kansas State left tackle Cody Whitehair as purely a guard due to his lack of length (6-4, 32 3/8 inch arms). A lot of Senior Bowl prospects are going to be judged similarly.
Forrest Lamp (T, Western Kentucky) has an incredible lack of length at 6-4 with only 31-inch arms. Adam Bisnowaty (T, Pittsburgh) likely has to move inside after measuring at 6-5 with 32 5/8 inch arms. Zach Banner (T, USC), listed at 6-8 in height, only has 33.5 inch arms.
Even Antonio Garcia (T, Troy) at 6-6 and considered by many to be a potential big riser over the next few weeks has 32 7/8 inch arms. Weighing in at only 293lbs won’t help either considering the concerns about his ability to add and retain weight.
None of this means they can’t play well at the next level — but this is worth noting:
Why weigh-ins matter: Most players that lack the ideal Height/Weight/Length/Athleticism have failed.
Its about minimizing chance of failure.— Joe Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) January 24, 2017
If the Seahawks are looking to add a possible starting tackle this off-season, they might be relying on the underclassmen and free agency.
For a full list of weigh-ins and measurements, click here.
South O-line struggles
The OL vs DL drills are the best of the week. After watching the south team perform, it’s pretty clear major improvement is needed during the week.
Texas A&M’s Daeshon Hall had a field day rushing the edge, winning constantly with speed and a nasty spin move counter. His first rep vs Troy’s Antonio Garcia was a mismatch. He, like everyone else it seems, also had a lot of fun vs Mississippi State’s overmatched Justin Senior.
Forrest Lamp had two really ugly reps. On one play he was driven deep into the backfield by Villanova’s Tanoh Kpassagnon and then rag-dolled to the turf. UCLA’s 320lbs nose tackle Eddie Vanderdoes also beat him far too easily with a quick swim move. Considering Vanderdoes otherwise played completely out of control and spent most of the drill on the turf, this wasn’t a good look for Lamp.
On one snap UCLA’s Conor McDermott gave up an easy inside rush, looking tired and lethargic. At his size you have to play inside-out and use your length. He offered a nice big lane for the pass rusher inside. A gift-wrapped sack.
Ethan Pocic is 6-6 and playing center, so it was no surprise he struggled to win with leverage and was twice walked into the backfield. Montravius Adams of Auburn had a really good drill pushing the pocket consistently.
If it took the 26th pick to get Reddick, Id be okay with that. Just get good players is not a terrible draft strategy and Reddick sure looks like a good one.
I honestly don’t like us taking a linebacker in the 1st round. We have huge needs elsewhere (OL, DL, CB) and how much would he really play? So we are in nickel 70% of the time, and Frank Clark is so impactful that you basically never want to take him off the field. So besides the 20-30% of the time that we are in our base defense (requiring a SLB), when would he pass rush? And he is considered a “poor mans Bruce Irvin”? Bruce himself was a nice pick but never really lived up to his price and athletic potential.
CB is a huge need given the Shead injury, the lack of depth on our roster (SJB, Seisay, Thorpe & Elliot), Lane’s poor (average at best) play and his history of injury proneness. Unless one of our CBs on the roster shocks us and makes the team, the CB we draft high in ’17 will either be the starting NCB and play 70% of the defensive snaps or earn outside CB and play 100% of the defensive snaps. That is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more impactful than a SAM linebacker.
Considering our aversion to spending FA money on OL it is a real huge bummer that this OT class is just pure awfulness. This is the class we needed to be deep and talented at OT so we could add someone to compete for the LT or RT job.
There are guys in FA who I’d like to see be on our team at LT and RT…but will this FO spend money on them? Highly unlikely IMO. Scary to go into 2017 with Fant & Gilliam the likely starters at OT and they will likely draft a OT in the 4th round or lower and “love him” (means nothing) and then add a Sowell & Webb type in FA who they “love” (which means nothing) and then we’ll have Fant starting at LT and who knows with Gilliam, Cable has sure seemed to sour on him in ’16.
Honestly I’d kill for a quality starting RT free agency signing (Riley Reiff). Let’s get a RT so Gilliam, Fant & others can compete for LT and at least one of the OT positions can have a quality veteran starter on it.
In 2013 and 2014 though they didn’t have Clark, played a lot more base and kept Malcolm Smith on the field (or Bruce). Nothing to stop Reddick playing a high % of snaps and Clark playing in a front four with Cliff, Bennett and one other. Bennett and Clark can both kick inside. Clark was doing that any way.
As the piece states, LB not the biggest need. But what you going to do? Take a middling CB just because? If the top few are gone they’re gone. Same with the OT’s.
So your point is that with Riddick on the team they could be in base more which means Riddick and Clark are both on the field? Then on 3rd down (in nickel) they kick Clark inside and lineup Riddick at RDE?
I don’t hate the idea, and you’re right that if nothing else is really there but Riddick is then that could very well be the smart way to go. But it’s hard to imagine with the FA money we’ve got we won’t add someone of real value to the DL. Now you can never have enough rushers and SLB is a need (MikeMo is 29 y/o) but still…
Overall the idea and discussion is valid. Who knows what we will do in FA, how the draft will play out and who on the roster already will show up in camp and during the season. If we were smart and spent our money on two quality OLinemen (Reiff & Okung let’s say) and then added to the LB corp & DL by adding Riddick then I’d be pumped. If we then grabbed a CB in R2 or R3 that Pete was in love with or we turned out to have a quality starter on the roster who earned CB2 or NCB (SJB, Seisay, Thorpe or Elliot) then that would all the more justify the decisions during the draft. But I fear we won’t hit that many homers. We won’t spend big on OL and we might not have any good CB’s on the roster.
They could do a lot of things. If they wanted to keep the three linebackers on the field on third down and still have four rush with Bennett, Clark and Avril they could. They could put Riddick at the EDGE and rush Bennett/Clark inside. Lots of possibilities. I think just because Mike Mo didn’t play many snaps doesn’t mean a really good SAM/LEO type wouldn’t if they got one.
Ideally there’s a DB or OT they like in R1 but if not — not much choice unfortunately. Have to live with it.
Great point Rob and I would think with Riddicks experience at DB he might be very solid in pass pro. To get an idea how how he would be used look at how Dan Quinn used Deion Jones this year.
I still really want Bolles or King in Rd #1 but Riddick would be hard to not get excited about as well.
I think it’s very possible that, from Seattle’s perspective, if they could stay in base more often than rely on nickel, they would consider that an advantage for their defense. Freak speed and athleticism at LB allows them to be more creative. I think Carroll mentioned that they would like to get a couple younger LBs.
IMO the issues Seattle needs to address to improve the defense is the variation and confusion they can create in their underneath coverage. A decent corner back just returns the team to what we had with Shead. Wagner and Wright are very good against the run and blitzing but they just don’t have a huge impact on the passing game in terms of PBU’s and Int’s.Both of Atlanta’s rookie linebackers had at least 8 PBU’s and a pick, none of Seattle’s had more than 6 PBU, Wagner had the lone pick in week 2. This need to improve in someway to close off some of the underneath passes that are easily completed against the Seahawks.
if it’s not Melifonwu, Baker or Reddick who can offer that versatility?
I wonder if this years draft class for Seattle will be heavy with juniors. And thank god a lot of them declared because outside of 20-30 SRs, its a bad class for them.
There’s not a lot of energy at this practice compared to years past. Doesnt have to mean anything. Just something I’ve noticed.
The coaching staffs make a huge difference in the practices don’t they! Wow what a difference from the energy that was at the practices run by the Cowboys last year and Gus in previous years.
Definetly. Even today the Bears staff had the North team being way more physical.
How much fun is it watching these practices Vol? These are some of my favourite days of the whole NFL year. I find they are invaluable when checking out players.
Too fun. I could watch this stuff all day. These next 2-3 months, even though the off-sesason, are like you, some of my favorite times of the year.
Your right. The tape won’t show you what these guys look like with NFL coaching and put in different scenarios.
What do you think of these notes re: Ifedi/Lamp from Dane Brugler (CBS draft)? Does make sense but will Ifedi develop to play RT?
“While Seattle doesn’t need to overhaul the offensive line to fix the issues, there is no doubt that the front office needs to bring in more depth who can help bring cohesion to the unit, especially on the right side. Last year’s first-rounder, Germain Ifedi, had a rocky rookie season at right guard, but he was drafted to be the eventual answer at right tackle. If he is ready for the move outside then Lamp would be a natural fit at right guard.
Can Lamp stay outside at tackle in the NFL? Probably. But, like Martin, his average length and square-blocking skill-set make him ideally suited at guard. And with his body control, core strength and stubborn mentality, Lamp has the necessary traits to make a successful transition inside and start from Day 1 in the NFL.”
Pete Carroll has already stated Ifedi will be staying at RG.
I don’t anticipate Seattle drafting a guard with 31 inch arms in R1.
Thanks, Rob. I’d been laboring over that question in recent weeks. Ifedi has such good size and length it seemed logical. I appreciate the clarification. I’m also glad you believe we won’t be drafting a round one guard (again).
Michigan’s Chris Wormley looks good inside man. What a get-off.
IDK if Taylor Moton has the length for a team like Seattle at RT but he flashed there big time. Some team is gonna get a good one there.
I wonder if Illinois’ Dawuane Smoot could play some off ball LB. He’s got that Cliff Avril shot out of a cannon first step explosion.
Watching some of the South practise on replay. Daeshon Hall just destroyed Antonio Garcia.
That was a great rep wasn’t it? He flashed big time today. Very impressed with him.
Hall is going to be an absolute steal for someone! Ideal length and size. Really really impressed with him and Wormley today.
Jaleel Johnson and Haason Reddick looking very good in the team drills.
Morton is going to be a big nasty LG for some team for a long time. That is a grown man.
Great anchor. Tough to move off his spot. I wouldn’t be surprised if he stuck at RT for someone.
He very well could! Seems to have good feet for a guy at 330lbs
The guys from the Setting the Edge podcast seemed very impressed with Moton too, and definitely mentioned he should get a shot at RT before being moved inside. One guy said he was watching Western Michigan tape to see Corey Davis but Moton kept distracting him. Like you said, it’ll be very interesting to see his arm length.
Pay some attention to Tanoh Kpassagnon….6-7, 280, 11 hands, 35 arms. Ex track star, added 70 pouds of muscles in college, great production (tackles (45), tackles for loss (21.5) and sacks (11), as well as another two forced fumbles and a blocked kick) against lesser competition.
If he measures well in the combine he could be a fast riser.
Wasn’t a fan of his. Looked soft to me.
‘added 70 pounds of muscles in college’ FFS. They’re really not even pretending to be clean anymore.
I’m not a hugee fan from the little I’ve seen, wonder if he might be another Oakman. But then again, that’s a massive individual. If he tests well the Hawks might have a look and wonder if they can’t get more out of him.
I’ll agree with that.
Not soft. Just very raw. This is like the 4th different time I’ve watched his stuff. Liked him originally, cooled on him. Now? A project pick. I saw some things I liked more than before. JPP like when he came out, but obviously in a very different body. Smart kid. Shows in his play.
I think he lies somewhere between Carlos Dunlap, David Irving, or Shawn Oakman. Athletically that is.
IMO teams will want to add weight to him. He might be too much muscle.
I totally agree. Teams will want him a bit heavier. Add 15 pounds and a good combine and you have a Calais Campbell size. May be worth a later pick.
Smart goes a long way on this type of a body…
Kpassagnon has a job offer at PriceWaterhouseCooper. Not convinced he’s all in on his football career. After 2-3 years of the grind is he going to have had enough?
What is Wormley looking like size wise???
Oh I see now. He is one big dude at 6’5 297
I think Reddick would be a great rnd 1 option… But is even better round 2 option provided we don’t forfit it. I just think other need like CB are more pressing.
Built like Shazier with Bruce Irvin’s skill set.
2 positions with 1 pick. SAM on early downs and edge rusher on 3rd and long. I agree that 2nd would be best.
Outside of Bolles and Ramczyk, I don’t see another starting LT or RT day one in this draft class, do you Rob? Most of the OTs are OGs in the NFL and many are mid to late round depth/development players. A legit FA RT is a high priority imo, also interior DL. Still looks like a great DB draft class despite all the guys with shorter arm lengths at the Senior Bowl. I wouldn’t mind a Bruce Irvin SAM/EDGE type again in this defense. You can’t have enough pass rushers and outside of Bobby and KJ we don’t have another plus athlete at LB. Great work as always Rob!
I would really love to see Kevin King as a #1 pick overall IMO over the other targets.
I like King as well but like Reddick would feel better with the 2nd pick.
I’m on board with a playmaking LB who can rush and cover. Imagine the state of our LBs if Wagner or Wright were to get hurt for any length of time?
Our front 7 is great, but it’s only because of 6 of the 7 starters. When it’s base and Morgan was hurt and it was Coyle or KPL on the field…that particular position was terrible. You’re only as good as your weakest link and Coyle/KPL are terrible “starters.”
As Rob states, it would be more ideal to get a CB. However, I don’t think you can take one for the sake of it at that spot.
I still like the idea of Baker playing the slot, ET insurance and playing a ton, but I’ll support any position if it results in a really good player.
Rob, re: Joe Mixon… Lets say he was a choir boy. Where do you think he’d land in the draft?
Mixon as a choir boy — R1
Just saw a Mock that had him 64 to the Patriots?
Forestt Lamp, Dan Feeney, Taylor Moton, Tre’Davious White, Cooper Kupp, Ryan Switzer, OJ Howard had the best day 1’s for me.
The real winner was A&M’s Daeshon Hall. Traits, size/length and suddenness for days!
Agree completely Vol I would throw Wormley in as well! Hall was considered a mid round guy. Not a chance he gets out of the 2nd round.
Dan Feeney is rock solid. It really sucks Ifedi is not moving to RT because there are some really solid Guard options in this draft. If they are keeping Ifedi at Guard that pick looks worse and worse IMO.
Wormley flashed as well.
Hall is probably a great athlete too being a former standout Bball player. When Sark was at Udub he had Dmore’a Stringfellow, Daeshon Hall, Kieshawn Bierria, Elijah Quails, and Damontae Kazee committed. If Stringfellow, Hall, and Kazee had stayed?
I could see Seattle liking Hall.
Maybe they take a guard later in the draft to possibly takeover for Ifedi if he ever moves to RT, but can’t see them spending back to back picks (first selection) on guards. The big key for Ifedi will be how much he can improve from year 2 to year 3. Hopefully it’s this year though.
Of course it does. Kills me that I think it’s pretty clear how to “fix” this team, but we’ve wasted this year not doing it and seem primed to waste next year not doing it, either.
OJ Howard had to be a top 10 pick doesn’t he?
Maybe. Top 15 more likely. He’s a prototype.
I’ve just updated the post with some thoughts on the South OL vs DL drill. Lamp had two absolutely horrendous snaps. Daeshon Hall looked really good though.
Hall showed, not an arsenal, but quite a few different moves. Won inside a lot too. Great quickness. Needs a little more power, but he seems like he has a lot of upside in him.
Would have loved to have seen Derrick Wise Jr from Arkansas here in these drills. Seems a lot like Hall but a little more raw. Both guys have the chance to be really good with some additional strength and development.
Me too. He’s so disruptive.
DT Montravius Adams showed some power and a wicked spin move.
Is Everson Griffen a bad comp for Hall? Preston Smith? Maybe some Chandler Jones?
Jones in terms of body type and some of the style.
Doesn,t Hall have problems with his shoulder? Durability concerns.
If he does, he hasn’t missed any time.
Is it bad that I am more excited to watch these Senior Bowl practices that the Super Bowl this year?
Interesting note from Ed Werder.
Since 2010 the Hawks have spent 14 picks on the OL tied with the 49ers for most in NFL including 3 first round picks.
Never want to hear about the Hawks not investing draft capital on OL or how Cable has had nothing to work with. They have just not developed them or built a solid unit. Really hope they switch up the evaluation and development process going forward. If not why expect anything different.
Equally, I can live without the assertion that they haven’t developed any OL.
Okung has had a seven year NFL career, James Carpenter six. A lot of their peers are out of the league right now. Look at the two guys drafted either side of Carp. Sweezy was a defensive lineman in college, now a $6.5m a year O-liner. Justin Britt had a very good 2016 season.
Only high draft pick that flamed out was Moffitt and that’s mainly his fault.
Not one of the 14 picks was developed to the point were the team determined they justified a 2nd contract.
I hope Britt becomes the first this off season. But even he has just had one league average year and was a bust till this season.
But this lacks context. They would’ve signed Sweezy, but not at $6.5m a year. They would’ve signed Okung, but what was his deal? Carp, Breno — both paid big bucks.
It’s wrong to say these guys didn’t justify second deals. Other teams paid beyond what Seattle was prepared to, because quite rightly they wanted to re-sign other guys like Wagner, Wilson and co instead.
That is my point. JS determines guys who are core pieces and none of them were considered that. 14 picks and not one. The only position group JS has not signed anyone to a 2nd contract despite 14 picks.
Rob the #s, stats and results just don’t lie. No one player resigned. Only 1 pro bowl appearance (Okung) and 7 straight years of bottom 1/3 OL’s by any metric. What they are doing with regards to the OL has not worked. I have not seen one bit of evidence or a stat that shows otherwise.
Actually RB /TE might be the other position groups they have not really hit on but they signed Zack Miller and traded for Jimmy Graham at TE and traded for Beast Mode at RB.
It’s a red herring Trevor the ‘no guys signed’ angle. They didn’t sign Bruce, Maxwell, Golden Tate, Clinton McDonald etc. Doesn’t mean they don’t want to keep those guys — if a team pays above and beyond (Carp, Breno and Sweezy were all overpaid by other teams IMO) there’s not much you can do. Would you want to pay Sweezy to be one of the highest paid players at his position in the league? Or Wagner? Just because Carp or Sweezy didn’t become Wagner, Wilson or Earl Thomas doesn’t mean they weren’t developed well in Seattle.
That sill does not explain being in the bottom 1/3 of the league every year by all OL metrics. If the drafting and development is not the issue what is it? It is not draft capital they have spent the most. It is not resource allocation they had the highest paid OL in the league in 2013.
If it not OL evaluation and development or coaching what is it? I am open to any other realistic answer. No other organization in the league has this bad a track record with their OL not even the Browns.
There are a multitude of reasons. We know what they are. For starters the annual change on the OL they’ve experienced the past three years. Consistency, familiarity, chemistry is key for an OL. I’ve already addressed in this conversation why that change occurred. Last year they clearly struggled badly due to unsuccessfully addressing the center position — and the OL only settled down when they put a journeyman center into the line-up to replace a project in Nowak. This year it was a rookie LT, rookie RG, first year LG, first year C, second year RT. It’s no shock at all that didn’t produce a productive result.
It’s not a secret why the last two years have been a war of attrition. I know Seattle fans want answers, they want reasons, they want to apportion blame. Sadly, it’s a c’est la vie situation. They’ve been dealt a pair of 2’s and they’re trying to win at the table. They just have to keep working at it.
Rob is spot on. They need continuity. They need experience. They need players that have played the position.
However, cost becomes a part of everything. To say they would have signed but for cheaper, isn’t really a good argument. They go for talent and value, just like most teams do. It’s a reflection on the entire OL philosophy and plan. They have struck out a lot and it has become a big problem. However, if they can bring the middle guys (Glow/Britt/Ifedi) back for a second season in a row, I really think that would be a big benefit.
I can’t argue with that and I agree they just need to keep working at it and hopefully some continuity will help.
But every year there is an excuse. The two constants are the OL is in the bottom 1/3 and the coaching / evaluation does not change. We all went on about how crazy it was Jeff Fisher still had a job because the Rams were never any good but Fisher always had excuses, nothing ever changed and the Rams still never won despite some good talent.
Our OL coaching and selection is exactly the same thing lots of reasons and excuses and same terrible results. If I saw guys making big jumps and improving that would be totally different. No one ever really has. For example they evaluated Gilliam as out LT this year and instead of getting better he was worse. Okungs was better as a rookie than he was his last year on the Hawks.
You can say Britt this year but he was drafted in Rd #2 as RT. He failed there so they tried Guard. Failed as a Guard so they move him to Center. Then he is average and it is viewed as a tremendous success. A guy drafted to play OT afer 2 terrible seasons has one good year at the position which is considered the lowest value draft wise and it is considered a huge success. That is how far the Seahawks fans expectations have fallen for the OL.
Anyways my feelings about OL coaching have been discussed more than enough I won’t bring it up again and I soooooo hope this is the year things finally get better.
As other people have suggested, it could be the idea that the different offensive philosophies of Cable, who prefers the run game, and Bevell, who prefers the pass game, have been clashing, which causes O-line issues.
Perhaps and if that is case pick one guy and let them run with it.
It is crazy to have one guy in charge of the run game and one guy in charge of the pass game anyways. They have to work together and have one philosophy.
unfortunately it will probably be at least 1 to 2 years to know if the Hawks have a good plan for the o line or not. It does not seem like they will add a highly ranked FA, and with no #2 draft pick, unlikely they will draft a tackle high this year. Sounds like they want to keep this group together and think they will improve with experience, maybe replace Gilliam at RT. If they stick with the plan, they will not be able to change it during the year.
regarding Gilliam, I would keep him as a back up, but also as a 6th lineman/TE. He might not be a great tackle, but he would be a very imposing TE, and that is what he was in college
umm, Gilliam “should be” an imposing TE based on his size….
Scratch Dion Dawkins off the list. He looks just over-matched.
That matches everything I’ve seen on tape from him. Just didn’t cut it against substandard competition, and I can’t see that changing in the big league
I thought Basham flashed a couple of times today for a small school guy.
The only guy who really gave Garcia any trouble in pass pro during games this season.
Rob, amazing as always. Any chance we get to hear you on with softy again?
Not sure but I’d love to. Hopefully.
The Seattle locals need to start petitioning for that!
Softy, Brock and Salk. Can you take over for the 1090 morning station Rob and get Rome off. Listening to you talk football and Hawks 5 days a week all year would be fantastic. How do we make that happen?
That would be a dream come true.
You should write John Clayton, he does a local show Saturday mornings and will take various journalists ans parties related to all kinds of crazy stuff in the NFL….. injuries, owners, GMs, player moves, the salary cap, etc etc etc And everyone here who listens to him regularly knows that, you sound much more sober than Irish Minke on the radio.
and he is a Yuge fan the combine and draft 😉
Rob, I agree you need to be featured more prominently among Seahawks journalists. I was curious, even though I’m sure you probably explained this before , how did you become a Seahawk fan? I’m guessing it’s a good story.
I used to live in Vancouver and occasionally travelled to Seattle. Went to a game and became hooked.
Well there you have it.
Anyway, to add on to the prevailing sentiment, I am surprised that at the very least that one of our local radio stations have not sought you out for at least a weekly spot leading to the draft.
Would love to do something like that.
That really is astounding.
That would be awesome!
By the way Rob, what is your Premiere League team?
I don’t follow a Premier League team. The teams in the region I live are in the divisions just below. As a radio host covering those teams, I don’t have a favourite.
South O-line struggles
I think it is very important to pay attention each day. If on day one a guy blows it, but day 2 looks better and day three looks solid… that means he can be coached and that is a big positive for the draft stock. The CFB OL coaching is dubious at best and the proliferation of spread offenses exacerbate the OL development (specifically OT), causing little real coaching / learning from the player….
A name that was mentioned today, Breno might get cut by the Jets looking to retool the roster. He could be a nice reserve RT, providing some cushion and alleviating the “need” to draft an OT early. He knows the system and he can block with the best of them. Ifedi and Giacomini on RG/RT tendem might not be a bad 1 year bandaid… we have mentioned Maxwell possibly being cut by the Dolphins.. another guy to definitely keep an eye on as well. Neither potential signing would cause a loss of a comp pick in 2018.
It’s definitely important not to judge all the guys on day two. Hopefully we’ll see improvements as the week progresses, some of them need it. Only one who I kind of like today among the south OL was Isaac Asiata.
Unfortunately I think Asiata is headed home with an injury.
Its as real shame all the talent that either couldn’t perform due to injury or didn’t want to risk injury. Can’t blame them for that.
I know his lack of size essentially rules him out as a Seahawks CB, but I love Jourdan Lewis from Michigan. He’s really explosive with quick feet, contests at the catch point, and just sticks to WR’s like glue. He measured a little better than expected today at 5’10, 190 with 31″ arms.
PFF posted some cool stats on their Senior Bowl preview pages, and the CB section is here: https://media.profootballfocus.com/2017/01/Senior-Bowl-Cornerbacks.png
Just look at his ridiculous stats this season: 13 catches on 44 targets (29.5% completion) for only 223 yards. He gave up 2 TD’s and had 2 picks, all adding up to a QB rating of 37.9(!) on targets in his coverage.
That chart also shows he played press coverage a whopping 60% of the time (triple the FBS average), and played 19% of his snaps in the slot. He’s been a shut down CB for the last 2 seasons in college.
Lewis is the best undersized CB prospect since Jason Verrett in 2014, and could similarly play at a pro bowl level in the slot or out on the boundary.
He’d be a great late 1st round pick IMO, but is sadly an unlikely candidate for a team like Seattle.
Check out his highlights this year, including a play of the year candidate at 2:20 – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhHIVaPRnUo
Rob do you think the Steelers not reporting Bells injury helps or hurts our case?
I hope it helps as the Steelers were a playoff game and Bell did not finnish. Sherm never even missed a snap. Still can’t believe Pete did that.
I have been praying every night we don’t loose that 2nd rounder 🙂
I don’t think it hurts the case — I’m not convinced it helps it much either though sadly.
Sad but true.
I know you don’t think they will go this route, but man if they could sign a good OL or two in FA and just really focus on defense in this draft it would be awesome. For all the whiffs offensively look at their history for 1st 3 rd picks on defense.
2016 Reed
2015 Clark
2013 Hill
2012 Irvin, Wagner
2010 ET
Not a bad record and I’d take an assortium of those caliber players in 1st, 2nd, 3rd in a heartbeat.
I agree play to your strengths and focus on D in the draft and the help you need on the o line other places . . .
“Get the help you need . . . “
Strengthen your strength. This team is built around and on its defense. That’s what has and what will take us places. Its why PC in my mind PC keeps addressing the ways their knocked out or beaten by.
Against NE, Avril goes down and they get back into the game. How do they fix it? Add Frank Clark.
Last year Carolina RB Jonathan Stewart runs wild. How do they fix it? Draft Jarran Reed. And they were the best run defense in the NFL again.
Atlanta moves the ball through the air at will. How do they go about it? PC names CB and safety depth as 2 need areas.
GREAT POST V12!!!! In a nutshell
So you think the Steelers will get a similar punishment?
Oops meant to make a new post there.
The Seahawks never drafted a CB with arms<32. They never drafted a CB before day 3 either. The early years (2010-2012) worked great (Sherman, Lane, Maxi, Thurmond, Shead), afterwards – not so much (Smith, Simon, Pinkins).
So, after 3 years of poor CB picks, they now face an urgent need to get someone that can play on September without the benefit of learning the Seahawks way over time.
It seems clear they they will have to divert from their custom of drafting CB on day 3 and beyond. Could the results of the 2013..2015 CB picks effect also a change regarding the size standards? Maybe having a more NFL ready CB outweighs the exact arm length?
As for picking Reddick first – His pass rushing (LEO) capabilities makes him way more valuable than just a SAM LB. If he can be a part of the pass rushing rotation and help reduce Avrill and Bennett to 70% of the snaps, it would bring a big upgrade late in games and late in the season. The Seahawks need to start managing the number of snaps for those guys as they enter their 30s.
Cooper Kupp will make some team very very happy. He played his best games against top competition and could be a late 1st round pick.
I agree about breaking trends this year. We have a window and development time isn’t the same luxury it once was. CB and a S that can cover are key needs. One solid OT is, too. All that said, if the right offensive skill player value is there I say pull the trigger. Our offense needs help, too, and we’ve proven able to find defensive gems mid~late rounds. Ultimately I expect a player with special traits and its exciting to think of the possibilities.
Time of the year when 70 guys will be 1st rounders.
I thought Grambling St WR Chad Williams was impressive too. Looked real good. Good size, caught everything I saw.
Some really good smaller school and non P5 or ‘the other 5’ prospects this year.
I don’t see any reason why the size/length preference would change. It’s one to thing to say, ‘OK — we have a need, this guy is really good, we’ll take a corner early this time’ and quite another to say, ‘OK — time to blow up what we’ve believed is the prototype player for our scheme for seven years.’
i would be curious to see how guys like Chris Harris, Malcom Butler, Talib, and other good corners compare as far as the 32 inch arms is concerned. I understand the concept. longer arms allows you to deflect more balls, but speed and instinct do the same. Would you rather have Lane with 32 inch arms, or maybe a 5’9″ Chris Harris with probably under 32″ arms?
Chris Harris actually has 33.5 inch arms which is obscene, freaky length for his size.
Aqib Talib — 32 1/8 inch arms
I can’t find an arm length measurement for Malcolm Butler.
Some others:
Patrick Peterson — 32 inches
Josh Norman — 32 3/4 inches
Xavier Rhodes — 33 3/4 inches
Richard Sherman — 32 inches
It’s not a total precursor to success because Marcus Peters has 31.5 inch arms so he’s half an inch under the cut-off. But there is some evidence that length is a consistent trait among the NFL’s top cornerbacks.
That’s maybe why some stayed away from Peters but he did look amazbomb on tape. He went R1 anyway. Further, while he had some noise around character, he also had that chip & edge of growing up around Beastmodes area. Kid is simply a baller.
You’re also talking about more than length in the above list. These guys are arguable the most versatile/skilled athletes on the field.
Arguably
To clarify my above comment: I agree regarding the measurement requirements NOT changing. Just that we may draft a DB earlier than usual, trade up uncharacteristicly if the right guy is there to fill an immediate and significant need (though unlikely we do this), or even take an offensive skill player such as TE, WR, or RB if someone special is in our range (also unlikely, IMO). I think we could have a somewhat unpredictable draft, still get our ‘types’ of guys, and fill our needs along the way. That’s what I mean by ‘breaking trends’. I don’t believe our requirements will flex. We have a type and if we’ve been drafting hot blonde all this time we aren’t settling for redhead this year, regardless.
Any thoughts on Julie’n Davenport? He has the measurables that they covet. Could be a 3rd dn option for RT/LT? He’s light on his feet in PPro and may not be as physical for his size, but there’s potential for Cable to work with. You just can’t teach 36in arm length. But you can teach how to use them.
I’ve heard he’s a weird kid. Like toxic.
I don’t want to upset anybody, I just want to list some two thoughts I read in the comments the last few days and give my 5 cents… I would appreciate every thought/critic/etc you have related to the listed points.
“We need to draft offense early because the depth and the hawks success in the later rounds alllows us to pick some gems for the D.”
1. I get it that the O was dissapointing this season, but I really think it’s not cause of a lack of talent or young players. It’s because of injuries and lack of consistency.
2. The only players on a second contract on the O are Wilson, Baldwin, Graham and some role players or players that should only get a limited role hm kearse anyone (Kearse, Williams, Reece, Sowell). I think they should get some time to develop, because the talent is there.
3. Since the draft of 2013 the hawks draftet 3 starting caliber contributers for the D (Marsh, Clark, Reed). 3. For your strength of the team. 3.
4. The last 3 drafts the hawks drafted 18 players on day 3. How many are on the team right now? 6. Of those 3 were drafted this year. 3 remaining on the roster are on the defensive side and only Marsh can be considered a success (Kpl and QJeff the others). So much to find defensive gems in the later rounds.
5. Points 3 and 4 Show that our D is just getting older and older without real contributers to step up if someone should go down. Therefore the hawks should draft D early and often. It’s the strength of the team, but for how long? As a side note, 8 out of 10 players from last years draft were for the O. Don’t you think this year will be the opposite? (in JS I trust)
“It would be nice to get a WR in the middle rounds.”
1. Yes it would be nice, but is it necessary?
2. You have Baldwin, Lockett, Richardson, McEvoy, Lawler (caroll praised him a lot), Kearse and some solid practice squad receivers like williams and Kevin … Smith? (nb 17 before hester and the “every day one touchdown”)
3. They can’t determine which route to run or to throw the ball to themself. The talent of the receivers is there, but other factors are just to inconsistent (Wilson, Bevell and injuries of course)
4. A TE could be a possibility that much I agree with but WR? I don’t see it. Sorry.
Feel free to comment/critise or whatever you want. Would appreciate it 🙂
Davenport has elite size for the position- I haven’t watched much of his tape yet- any chance he is a 4th/5th round target of ours? Additionally, one guy whose tape I *loved* was Tanoh Kpassagnon, and he measured in with just incredible length. Assuming we retain our second round pick (maybe this is wishful thinking) could he be a target of ours as an outside/inside rusher and ball swatter?
Of the DB’s, Kazee, Obi, and White stood out. I really like Morgan. Great base, tough as hell.
Rob, what are you thoughts on Cam Robinson and where he goes in the draft?
Not a big fan. Round two.
Back to getting Rob on the radio. I can’t seem to get the email for program director at 710, but I emailed JC show and Brock and Salk show about Robs blog.
Can’t seem to find a way to contact 950 because the only things they show is twitter and facebook messaging (which I don’t have).
I did find the email for programming director at 1090 and already emailed them. Get the word out, let’s get Rob on the radio so he can have a paid gig being on Seattle radio 1090 the fan 9am-12pm (pst) monday-friday.
carey.curelop@cbsradio.com
Thanks for doing the leg work Ed!
Interesting tidbits from a Mayock conversation with Falcons GM Thomas Dimitroff and assistant GM Scott Pioli, who said:
“When Dan [Quinn] came in, he was crystal clear about what he wanted and each of his assistant coaches were crystal clear on what they wanted, each position what to look for…”
“And looking at the linebackers that we have in De’Vondre Campbell and Deion Jones is exactly what you’re talking about with coaches wanting speed but length also. One of the things that Thomas and I have always been in step on is the fact there’s time speed and there’s playing speed and the players that we find are guys that have pure speed, but also have playing speed and that’s really helped.”
Full video: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000778784/article/dimitroff-pioli-channel-belichick-in-building-falcons-d
First of all, just goes to show yet again how much length matters. I have also been intrigued for a while with the play speed vs. test speed concept and think we need to try to give a bit more weight to the play speed on tape here on SDB.
Combine numbers are helpful, but some of these guys who don’t test well as “track runners” are clearly faster than their test numbers when on the field. Both certainly matter in their own right, but the eye test on game speed, although it can be somewhat subjective, can be a huge way to find a steal who drops in the draft because he doesn’t test well in a track event environment like the 40yd.
One example for me is J.D. McKissic, with his 4.59 pro day time. He clearly looks faster than that to me on tape.
But the reference here is that they have the timed speed first and foremost right? And then they want to see if that translates to the field.
It’s not a case of seeing a guy run slow at the combine and then you’re looking for him to be faster on tape.
So I think we kinda have covered this really. We look for the unique talents then check on the production/tape. Or alternatively a guy stands out on tape and then we either develop further interest after the combine or we move on.
Yeah. Like Chris Clemons & Lofa Tatupu
Agree totally that we are on the right track, was just trying to brainstorm ways for us to get better, to maybe find guys who fall through the cracks a bit just because of a bad 40yd time.
Like maybe Deion Jones, who flies everywhere to the ball, disappointed a bit with his 4.59 40yd. Maybe that really is his speed, but he sure seems to play a lot faster.
Or say, for argument’s sake, that Budda Baker ends up running 4.55. I guess it would just force us to do more homework to try and figure out why, but it shouldn’t necessarily change what we love from him on tape.
Not trying to argue, just thinking out loud and I’ll accept if I’m totally off on this.
I think there was a reason for Jones’ bad forty, can’t remember thinking back. Unless I’m mistaken didn’t he run a much faster time at his pro day?
Typically if a guy “plays faster” than his timed speed, that athleticism is explained by other athletic tests in the pre-draft process. The 40 yard dash is way overrated among casual fans, and its the go-to measurement for speed.. Besides WR’s and CB’s, NFL players almost never run 40 yards in a straight line (and even that is rare). For most positions, I rate the explosion tests, agility tests, and 10 yard split as highly or even more important than the 40.
For example, we all know that Doug Baldwin looks like a great athlete, but his 40 time was just average at 4.48. However he performed well in a number of the other tests, especially the 3-cone. His 6.56 time in the 3-cone is extraordinary.
Just out of curiosity, how do some pro bowl, and good corners around the league stack up in the 32 inch category?
See Rob’s comment just above: https://seahawksdraftblog.com/senior-bowl-day-one-notes-riddick-cbs-o-line#comment-305911
Chris Harris – 33.5 inch arms
Aqib Talib — 32 1/8 inch arms
Patrick Peterson — 32 inches
Josh Norman — 32 3/4 inches
Xavier Rhodes — 33 3/4 inches
Richard Sherman — 32 inches
At the Pro Bowl, Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman told Sal Paolantonio that it was “foolishness” that the NFL would consider docking his team a draft pick for not disclosing his knee injury during the 2016 season. Sherman said he played “banged up” during the postseason. //
may be it would not cost hawks…
I’d rather them take away the 1st rounder. As I’ve said before, Seattle will find UDFAs that will out-play and outperform their early round picks anyways.
That’s crazy. I understand your point, but the 1st has way more value
Reddick looks soo good in man coverage oh my lawd… I’ll take him at 26 yes please!!! He could be Von Miller-esque. If he has a solid vert and broad he could be our answer to TEs also. And play LEO. Talk about versatility.
@TonyPauline: Really starting to come together for Haason Reddick/Temple. Unstoppable in blitz drills and it’s clicking in coverage drills.
I think 3-4 teams are gonna like him! Thats what they do know. Take the smaller, more athletic LB and stick him inside as your WLB.
*now
It’s a nice strategy. Always cool to see how teams adapt.. I think we get an impact player with our first pick regardless if we trade down or not.
He’s blowing up right now. Several guys I follow who are at Sr Bowl are singing his praises today.
One quick thought on Reddick. I’m ready glad to see him blowing the place up, but let’s keep perspective. Last year Noah Spence had a really exceptional week as well and for a while many mocked him in the top 15. But for whatever reason (including an average combine), his stock fell back to earth and he landed squarely where he was originally projected more or less. Reddick may be the same. For our sake I hope so. That said, I am on board with him at 26!
True – but I think per Rob’s note on Reddick’s testing numbers while at Temple, signs point to an impressive combine performance. As you alluded to, Spence had a fairly avg combine (I think I recall his 40 and 10 yard split not being as fast as hoped/expected?). We obviously won’t know for sure until the combine, but if he does perform in the same neighborhood as thought, the buzz will probably continue.
Also worth noting Spence’s middling combine and character issues after being kicked out of Ohio State. That was a large reason why he didn’t go as early as expected.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisBurke_SI/status/824335569518022656
Here is the footage of Reddick blowing up the coverage and rushing drills. Looking increasingly like our only shot of getting him would be in the first round – if he is still even available.
Reddick’s has been overwhelmingly positive in the SB practices this week. You think he works his way into the first round Rob? If so, and the Hawks have to choose between Reddick, Baker and King… who do you take?! Just a week ago I thought we might be able to get all three! Looks like that’s impossible now.
I’ve thought Reddick could sneak into R1 for a while — see our 31st December mock
Any Defensive Tackles we’d convert to OL? Are we done with that? Have we ever converted a DT to OT? I know it has been tried for OG. Just curious.
Also, should we sign a guy like Whitworth to a short-term deal, how would this change the draft for us?
Haven’t been able to watch anything this week. How has Taylor Moton looked? Was a little disappointed with his arm length (though he has a respectable wingspan.) Seems like a hard working, smart kid though. I’ve been assuming he’s a more realistic target for the Hawks over the top-2 tackles we’ve discussed.