Some thoughts on Cincinnati quarterback Desmond Ridder

December 1st, 2021 | Written by Rob Staton

Desmond Ridder has enjoyed a successful career at Cincinnati

I don’t like that we’re having to break down quarterback tape again but here we are. With the increasing possibility that this team is going to make major changes in the off-season, we’re duty bound to at least look at what’s out there.

Today it’s Desmond Ridder’s turn to get an extended review.

Firstly, he has great velocity on his throws. When he needs to let it rip he does so effectively. He generates power by planting his feet to drive the football into tight windows and into the right areas on an intermediate and deep range.

Of all the quarterbacks in this class, Ridder makes the prettiest throws to chop up and make into a highlights video. Carson Strong has some ‘wow’ moments too — but Ridder is the one who makes completions that raise an eyebrow. He reads a defense well, throws with anticipation, velocity and placement and if you’re looking for special qualities in that regard — he can be exciting at times.

He had two throws against Notre Dame — one to the left sideline and one right down the seam — that were just perfect. Possibly the two best passes I’ve seen this season.

One area where Ridder really stands out is mobility and movement to extend plays. His footwork is superb. He takes smaller steps but is springy in his footwork, enabling him to glide side-to-side while keeping his eyes downfield. He will keep two hands on the ball and he’s reading the field looking for openings while he’s on the move.

There are various examples on tape where he side-steps to the right, back-pedals to the left, moves back to the right and then throws with accuracy and velocity. He had a tremendous play like this against Eastern Michigan recently from deep inside his own half. He is very difficult to contain, he buys himself time and then he can punish opponents with his arm.

His running ability is an asset. He is a good athlete and can be useful on draws and scrambles. He has a blast of acceleration which is unexpected and he can turn up field to make good gains. You can easily imagine him making some frustrating 3rd and 8 conversions simply by breaking contain and getting just enough with his legs.

I do worry a little bit about his frame. He’s listed at 6-4 and 215lbs but he’s quite lean. I’m not sure how he would take to being hit regularly at the next level, so that may limit his usefulness as a runner. Yet I think it’s a positive and he has the ability to take what is given on the ground.

Ridder does an excellent job attacking the middle of the field. The way he throws to tight ends running the seam is impressive. He’s adept at standing in the pocket and throwing with anticipation to his bigger targets.

There are technical flaws. Unlike Strong, he doesn’t always align his feet and shoulders to the direction the football’s being thrown. When he throws to the left his body can be positioned facing to the right. It means when he uncorks to throw, he has to take a long stride with his left leg, coming across his body to plant and throw. This is wasted motion. At the next level those split seconds can be the difference between a deflection or a sack/fumble. It can be the difference between an open receiver being closed down, or a defensive back reading your body language to anticipate the throw.

Ridder spent considerable time last summer — in his words — to make the lower half of his body work with his upper half. There are still some issues to work through here and it does impact his accuracy. Sometimes these habits are fixable. Sometimes you are what you are and my concern with Ridder is his natural throwing technique will mean that while he’s very capable of sensational, eye-catching throws — he’s also going to have plenty of ‘WTF’ high throws and misses.

You see a steady stream of this on tape. He will throw high when stepping up into the pocket and put too much into a pass. Even on little easy dump-off’s or WR screens he will miss high. It’s frustrating to watch at times and you end up having to consider the two contrasting sides of his game. The beautiful, highlight-reel passes and the absolutely maddening easy misses.

He also has a moderate turnover problem. He’s thrown 28 interceptions in four years at Cincinnati. It’s an average of seven per season. It’s not a major problem but it’s been a consistent feature in his career. You’d like to see gradual improvement where the touchdown numbers rise and the interception numbers come down. For Ridder — he kind of is what he is.

Some of those turnovers are careless, too. He had one against Navy this year where he totally misread the coverage and threw it straight to a defensive back, as if he was the target. In the same game, he almost floated a pass right into the hands of a defender on his own 10-yard for what would’ve been an easy pick-six. The linebacker dropped the pass.

He was pressured early against Indiana this year and started throwing off his back-foot. One throw was off-target, tipped and picked. Another was way off-target and could easily have been another interception.

When you watch him play, I’d say about 20% of his throws every game are inaccurate and frustrating. Another 10-20% are exciting and highly impressive. So this is what you’re ultimately going to get. Someone who is capable of maddening play and sheer brilliance over the course of 60 minutes.

He’s a good athlete with a strong arm. He will take chances, have misses and make errors. Ridder’s effective as a runner.

We have to acknowledge how he has elevated Cincinnati to a new level. You want to see that in college. They’ve been good for some time but in 2021 they’re in the playoff hunt and that needs to be highlighted as a positive. He set a school record for touchdown passes and we’re talking about 136 years of Cincinnati football here. So he has achieved a lot in college. His team are 43-6 in his four years and won Bowl games against Virginia Tech and Boston College. They should’ve beaten Georgia in the Peach Bowl last season.

I don’t rate him as highly as Kellen Mond a year ago and he went in round three. I think that is a fair range for Ridder too — maybe even round four. However, I would rather take a chance on him in the middle rounds, put him with a good coordinator and QB coach and try to develop him — than spend a first round pick reaching for one of the other quarterbacks in this class.

There’s something to work with. The upside and potential is clear. There are technical and accuracy issues that need work to make the most of what he does well.

He’s an intriguing prospect. The Senior Bowl is often a king-maker at the position and Ridder has accepted an invitation to Mobile. A strong week could deliver a major boost to his stock.

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216 Responses to “Some thoughts on Cincinnati quarterback Desmond Ridder”

  1. Marcus says:

    Thanks, Rob. Your draft analysis always adds important context to the discussion.

  2. Roy Batty says:

    A little bulk from more weight training would help.

    Remember how thin Lamar Jackson looked coming out of Louisville? So many commented on various sites how he would be destroyed by NFL defenders.

    I’m not saying Riddick is at Lamar’s level, but adding a few more pounds of muscle mass would be a priority for anyone drafting him.

    And, at the very least, the kid is exciting to watch.

  3. James P says:

    I think you mean Kellen Mond Rob. Great article as per!

    • BoiseSeahawk says:

      How difficult would it be to get Mond from the Vikings? Less draft stock than adding Ridder? With Cousins not having an absolutely horrible year I wonder if they could go that route rather than selecting a QB from the draft. We always play nice with the Vikings on trades anyway.

      • Blitzy the Clown says:

        I recently asked the blog about trading for Mond considering the possibility of Wilson deciding he’s done in Seattle regardless of who’s running things.

        I would prefer Mond to any QB in this year’s draft class.

        • BoiseSeahawk says:

          Right? seems like a better option since the vikings confidence is waning toward Cousins right now. They may not know what they have in trade value. For Russ if we could trade him to a big market (NYG/NYJ hold picks 4-7!!) we could pick up a couple early firsts for him this year and futures. Maybe give MIN a 3rd rounder for Mond since they drafted him there.

          • BoiseSeahawk says:

            Lets just say its the NYGiants that lure Russ to a bigger market. They give us two immediate first round picks at 6 and 7, 70 and their 2023 first rounder. We trade our 3rd round pick to the Vikings for Kellen Mond. That would net us: 6, 7, 37, 68, 70, 106, 107, 146, 184, 224. And a likely top 10ish 2023 pick.

            R1, 6: Aidan Hutchinson, DE Michigan
            R1, 7: DeMarvin Leal, DT Texas A&M
            R2: 37: Jalen Wydermeyer, TE Texas A&M
            R3: 68: Kyren Williams, RB Notre Dame
            R3: 70: Thayer Munford, OG Ohio State
            R4: 106: Kyler Gordon, CB Washington
            R4: 107: Cade Mays, OG Tennessee
            R5: 146: Zach Charbonnet, RB UCLA
            R6: 184: Josh Jobe, CB Alabama
            R7: 224: Bubba Bolden, S Miami

  4. TJ says:

    I am firmly in the keep Wilson, replace Carroll camp. I’m also leaning toward a clean sweep to include Schneider. Another angle to consider in the keep vs. trade Wilson discussion is his contract situation. I believe that he has 2 years left before he becomes a UFA. If Wilson would be willing to buy into a new HC/system, great. Keep him, build around him, and do everything possible to give him a roster with which he can success, which includes heavy investment into OL and a RB who is not made of glass. If there is no chance he stays after his current contract expires, I think the Hawks should get as much value for him as they can. Too bad this doesn’t look like the draft to implement that strategy.

    I think we may be seeing from his current on-field performance what an unhappy RW looks like. I might be wrong. His finger might be effecting him more than we realize. But he looks horrible right now. He looks disengaged. Maybe it’s coaching, including Waldron. Maybe he is demoralized by the current state of the roster. I don’t know what it is, but crap, he looks bad right now.

    Depending on the round in which Riddick ends up going, he sounds like a player who would be worth drafting and developing. I’m not a scout. I don’t have the time or inclination to study prospects, so I rely on Rob’s scouting reports. Seattle has done a horrible job of drafting/developing young QBs for backup roles. Physically, Jacob Eason seems like a guy who could be a good player if groomed properly. Unfortunately, his on-field decision-making makes his ceiling seem pretty low. Regardless of whether Wilson ends up staying or leaving, Seattle still needs to find new QBs to develop. Unfortunately, by trading away so many picks, that seems like a luxury they can’t currently afford.

    • MychestisBeastmode says:

      Impossible to know, but I wonder how much the passing and subsequent grieving from Russ losing his best friend/life-coach a while back?

      Regardless, I’m sure all the shitty feelings being compounded by a shitty season certainly does not help.

  5. Peter says:

    Excellent write up.

    With 2020 being a wash for so many prospects I am even more excited about the senior bowl this year.

    I feel for you Rob. A decade. A freaking decade of analyzing supposed player types for a regime and the two most important parts of a football team being in flux to hopefully end this horrible run. Obviously a good player is a good player. And some positions are scheme independent but without knowing what a possible new coach looks for and/or a world w/o Wilson looks like this draft prognosticating cycle could be challenging.

  6. Norman says:

    I haven’t watched a single second of Ridder, but based on your description of his game alone, Carson Wentz was conjured to mind. Would you say that’s a fair comp?

    • Rob Staton says:

      Wentz is a lot bigger — 25lbs bigger. Let’s not underestimate that. Ridder is a quicker runner. Maybe in terms of their college career there are some similarities, statistically and in terms of impact. But there’s a reason Wentz was #2 and why Ridder isn’t being project anywhere near that range.

  7. Mexican Hawk says:

    A Nick Saban + Bill O’Brien or any offensive mind of Saban’s choice like the ones that have passed thru Bama (Kiffin, Sarkisian, Daboll, McElwain) could be an inspiring choice.

    I would think Wilson’s mentor/friend Trevor Moawad would speak highly of that move if he were still alive.
    Saban left the Dolphins out to dry, but Belichik similarly did so to the Jets. Not similar comparisons, but still. Who knows if Sir Nick has that hunger to prove himself at the NFL level and whether his approach works well with paid athletes.

    The main issue I see with the Seahawks is the potential sale of the team and how this affects who wants to come coach this team. Particularly someone of the caliber of Saban or Lincoln Riley for example. I read somewhere (not sure if true) that the Blazers were going to be sold in a few years (after the estate settles). It would be hard for an established coach to come take the reins here if they know the team will switch hands in 2-3 years. New owner would want to hire their own.

    Best case scenario if Wilson wants to stay is to try and hire a youngling, who would jump at opportunity like you mentioned with LaFleur. Some coordinator that you see is also a leader of the whole ship. Those whose strengths are just play-calling are the worst generals.

    If Wilson wants to leave, I think the best bet for this transition period is Pete staying. Get a haul for Wilson.
    Once the team sells you can go get your Jimmy Johnson.

    Like you mentioned next few months key to whether this will be an inspiring transition or a 3 year train wreck.

    • Mexican Hawk says:

      MAYBE SCRATCH SABAN as per below from August 2021, but rest still applies:

      TUSCALOOSA, Ala. — Alabama coach Nick Saban will make $11.5 million in the final year under a new eight-year contract that’s worth at least $84.8 million.

      The university released details Monday of Saban’s previously announced deal, after the board of trustees’ compensation committee formally approved it.

    • Blitzy the Clown says:

      I think the best bet for this transition period is Pete staying. Get a haul for Wilson.

      So…you want to give the keys to the next rebuild to the guy who totally f*cked up the last rebuild to the point where the entire organization is the laughing stock of the NFL? You want Pete Carroll to spend the boatload of picks Seattle would get for Wilson, because…Carroll’s done such a great job spending the team’s draft capital?

      I couldn’t disagree more.

      • Big Mike says:

        But, but Blitzy, remember how bad it was before Carroll?

        (never mind that it’s now just as bad under his “guidance”)

      • Mexican Hawk says:

        Blitzy… no I want to hand the keys to Russell and a LaFleur type as Rob mentioned. I’m just saying if Russ gives team ultimatum to trade him, and they move on from Pete as well I find it hard to believe that a well-established coach would want to move to a franchise in flux (ownership wise).

        It would have to be a roll of the dice with a young guy and no Russ. Here’s to hoping Hawks hit a home run with that hire paired with a solid front office. QB will have to come in the future somehow.

        Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that and Russ is the play. He’s a one in a million type of person.

        • Blitzy the Clown says:

          I hear you buddy, let’s hope Russ stays and someone like Sean Payton comes in.

          But about Pete Carroll and whether or not he would want to move one, I think it’s a virtual certainty he won’t be the Seahawks’ HC next year. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s already told ownership he’s not going to stay, and they’re just keeping it quiet until the end of the season for obvious reasons. I’m not saying he has done that, just that I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s already a done thing.

          With respect to Wilson, I think it’s truly 50-50 if he stays or is traded. There are too many unknowns, but I don’t think Carroll is one of them.

          Also, we should at consider that a new front office might prefer to trade Wilson if the price is right.

    • Rob Staton says:

      The worst thing in any scenario is Pete staying

      It’s time to move on

  8. cha says:

    https://twitter.com/minakimes/status/1466076326557749251

    “When you try to figure out what’s wrong with this team, and what changes need to be made, how can you ignore the elephant in the room? Which is it’s not been a well-run football team…”

    • Scot04 says:

      So true… Robs been saying it for years. It’s sad it’s taken so long for most others in the industry to come around.

    • TomLPDX says:

      Gotta love our home girl Mina! At least someone in the national media said it. Most of the others continue to praise JS and PC.

      • Big Mike says:

        Yet a lot of the reason a good portion of the national media is behind anything and everything Seattle is because they’re all East Coast based and East Coast biased Tom. South Alaska don’t you know?

    • Troy says:

      Agreed, monumental failure of both the front office (JS) and coaching (PC) really ever since the 2012 draft. A lot of their pics have had injury issues which really can’t be predicted, but the major free agent moves certainly can be critiqued (Jimmy Graham, Percy harvin, Jamal “best in the nation” Adams

  9. Scot04 says:

    Another WTF moment on KJR.
    8:30 on KJR 950
    Will Brinson from CBS Sports said RW likely gone.
    PC still a good coach, but wants to run the ball and play defense.
    They have  no offensive line, no running back, and a bad defense because they built around RW.
    Then said there’s no real quick turn around because of no draft picks and  it’s not like one or two Free-agents will fix things.
    So recouping picks for RW makes sense.
    How the heck does he think they built around RW, he just finished saying they have no offensive line.
    I’m so glad we have SDB; some of these so called experts are incredibly frustrating.

    • Peter says:

      Scot04-

      How can you say they didn’t build around Wilson?

      After getting rid of his best o-coordinator in Bevell and then arguing with schottenheimer they brought in offensive mastermind in shane waldron.

      Aaaaaand, he has TWO whole recievers. Job sorted.

      • Big Mike says:

        Well they have tried to build around Russ. They drafted offensive linemen and running backs and Signed free agent tight ends and drafted wide receivers and just failed on every account save for DK Metcalf
        Drafting drafting drafting…

        • Peter says:

          Here’s one…..how does a team really build around any player?

          Sure they drafted linemen and signed fa TE’s.

          But, they also signed FA pass rush, drafted a bunch of d line men, and used nine picks on safeties.

          They’ve done what every team does and field a roster.

          What i am getting at is this build around narrative cuts both ways. And i’m not sure anyone can really argue that they made Russ any more of a priority than nearly any other move. Trade for brown. Check. Also teade for clowney, richardson, adams, and diggs.

    • Submanjoe says:

      It’s a half ass build around Russ combined with a bit of Pete butting in to control and tweak things to Peteball. It’s why Pete should go and the team needs to give Russ a shot without Pete butting in.

  10. Rob Staton says:

    Bobby Wagner again…

    https://twitter.com/MattBowen41/status/1465744457630953473

    This should be his last season in Seattle

  11. Roy Batty says:

    Imagine Pete staying, trading Russ, then extending Bobby.

    Check that, DO NOT IMAGINE THAT.

    ALSO, that tweet from NFL Memes showing “Congratulations to all the teams that participated in No Win November”, is hilarious.

    • cha says:

      3 seasons from now Hawkblogger would be still saying “all the Seahawks need is a pass rush”

      • Matt says:

        That whole crew…yikes. I saw one guy talk about how 1st and 2nd down don’t matter; it’s just about 3rd down.

        Ask any Major league hitter if it’s more difficult to hit if you are 0-2 versus 2-0. The fact they think consistently being 3rd and long is not an issue is just asinine.

  12. Gross MaToast says:

    Matt Rhule could be leaving Carolina for OU. Might new Seahawk HC + Joe Brady sway Russ? Probably not, but it’s a good pitch.

    • EP says:

      Rob I cannot stress enough how far ahead of the general Seahawks/NFL community that you have been. Every day I seem to be reading an article addressing points you brought up years ago. Kudos for asking the hard questions even when times were “good”. It seems that qthe SDB community has been mentally prepared in advance for the potential meltdown on the horizon/currently occurring.

      • Rob Staton says:

        Thank you — I really appreciate you pointing that out. Mostly because the last two years have been filled with abuse for just offering an honest assessment of where this team was going. It was all predictable if you were willing to look.

  13. Justaguy says:

    Thank you Rob for your assessment of Ridder. I was anticipating this article and appreciate your candid analysis of prospects. Ridder’s mobility and ability to attack the middle of the field are attractive attributes.

  14. cha says:

    Ian Rapoport
    @RapSheet
    ·
    1h
    From
    @MikeGarafolo
    on NFL Now: Future HOF RB Adrian Peterson is visiting the #Seahawks today. Most recently of the #Titans, Peterson could be back in the NFL, in Seattle this time.

    • Peter says:

      Why the internet sucks an example:

      “Future HOF’er” wow!!!! Oh, wait. A guy whose prime and value is so far removed from that era is visiting seattle…fingers crossed he can maintain that blistering just barely 3 yds a carry he was doing in Tennessee. Which is actually going to feel electric against the current roster.

    • Mick says:

      I wonder if Marshawn would do much worse than Peterson.

      • Peter says:

        It’d be more fun.

        But AP needs cash and marshawn seems like he’d only do it for a possible ring.

    • Big Mike says:

      Oh God, please no.

  15. Mike says:

    Honestly the 2020 draft looks like it was pretty good. Doesn’t cover up enough of the areas where the roster is awful or there other terrible drafts but jordyn brooks, Darrell Taylor, Damien Lewis, Alton Robinson, Freddie swain is a really solid class.

    The problem is one solid class is not enough to fill out a roster. The three drafts prior to that only Dk metcalf and chris carson were good picks.

    • Rob Staton says:

      jordyn brooks, Darrell Taylor, Damien Lewis, Alton Robinson, Freddie swain is a really solid class.

      Why is it?

      Brooks — not seen anything to get excited about. His PFF grade is 54.1. They used a first round pick on a linebacker and I expect more than ‘occasionally not bad’. To me that was a bad pick from day one, an unnecessary pick too.

      Taylor — I like him. But what’s his next level? To me it feels like he’s a specialist rotational rusher. Which is a good thing. But OK.

      Lewis — they’ve moved him and I fear they’ve ruined him.

      Robinson — I know we all say we want him to get more snaps (and so does Pete) but it never happens.

      Swain — just average at best

      This is nothing to write home about. There’s no difference making picks here.

      • Mike says:

        I agree there not potential stars besides maybe darell Taylor eventually, but at least there’s some solid starters especially there first three picks. If that was there average draft they would have a solid roster. The problem is that is there high point.

        And yeah they’ve totally ruined Damien Lewis by switching him makes so little sense to me.

      • Matt says:

        I think it’d be easy to say it’s a really good class if you have a good-great team.

        As we do not have a good to great team; that draft is pretty meh as we are desperate for difference makers at premium positions.

        Taylor could become a really good pass rusher. As of right now, to Rob’s point – he’s kind of a good situational guy.

        Brooks is…eh. Great potential, some splash plays but at a position that’s not premium.

        It’s borderline criminal what they did to Damien Lewis. That was looking like a great iOL talent and instead, we switch him sides and to be blunt – he’s been terrible.

        Alton Robinson shows potential then completely vanishes from the face of the earth.

        Freddie Swain…nice player. Every team…literally every team has a Freddie Swain. I mean that literally…all of them have that young WR who is just about average in every regard.

        The biggest issue is not getting difference makers at important positions. We are in the middle of witnessing the implosion of DK Metcalf, both performance and attitude wise. I’d 100% be shopping that guy this offseason – he’s a good player. But absolutely no way on earth am I trusting him with a huge contract.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I still think it’s a pretty average group at best. No stars, lots of question marks. A class I think has offered more promise than production.

  16. Rob Staton says:

    Further to the tweet I linked to earlier about Bobby Wagner…

    It’s high time someone did a deep look into the way he’s playing. Because he has regressed. And he is not playing with the expected level of physicality. He is passive, he is at times avoiding contact.

    It never gets discussed.

    But it’s there. Watch the All-22 on gamepass and you’ll see it.

    • Mick says:

      I think this has much to do with losing KJ, Bobby looks overwhelmed as the only LB with experience.

      • jed says:

        I think Bobby is just getting old. Even the really good tackle at the beginning of the game where he leveled the RB was after Bobby was blocked and getting back up off the ground and was 4 yards down the field. What I remember from the rest of the game looked like the clip Rob linked above – getting blocked easily and when he makes tackles he’s getting carried a few yards down the field.

        In the GB game, Dillon just carried Bobby 3 yards for a TD (link below). I can’t remember the last time he cut through a gap in the line and made a tackle in the backfield. Decline in the NFL happens fast and I just think it’s his time.

        I’m a huge fan of his, both on the field and off. I think what he does at the beginning of his press conferences are awesome. But, like Rob says about Pete, put a statue up for Bobby, retire his number, Ring of Honor, have him raise the 12 flag for a playoff game, rename the stadium security job title as Bobbies, whatever else, but this should be his last year too.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAKZGkPneVk

        • TomLPDX says:

          Unfortunately I agree with everything you just said. I love Bobby too, but it is time for him to move on to his next big career. He’ll be the one who ends up owning a sports franchise, not Russ.

    • DriveByPoster says:

      If I was Bobby Wagner, I would be sandbagging a bit too. He has put himself in the firing line for years at Seattle & completely embraced the “always compete” mantra & then along comes Jamal Adams who gets rewarded with a massive contract for doing pretty much nothing except make ‘business decisions’. Meanwhile, Bobby’s mate KJ, who was both good & reliable, gets cut. I think it’s a case of “if he can get away with it, then why the hell should I bother risking serious injury?”. I think the Adams signing was not only poor value in terms of contract & draft picks but appears to me to have had a corrosive effect on team spirit.

    • icb12 says:

      Not to be too contrarian.. but Bobby IS still leading the league in tackles. 2nd in Solo tackles. I don’t disagree that he isn’t what he used to be, and no doubt has regressed some, but the man still has 128 freaking tackles. In another game, he will reach his total from last year, his total from 2018, his total from 2017. He has already passed his totals from 2015, 2014, and 2013. He’s on track for almost 190 total tackles which would be the most he’s ever had. Hell it will be top 10 ALL TIME tackle numbers. Take away the extra game and he’d still have more tackles than he ever has..

      So yeah, eye test, Wagz has regressed… maybe isn’t worth his contract. but a little perspective might be in order. Imagine this horrible Defense WITHOUT him. Jesus that’s scary.

      Interesting that Brooks is also top 4 on the leaderboard for tackles too.

      Also- AJ Dillon is a LOAD to get down for anyone.

      • Roy Batty says:

        Quantity over quality is not a great argument.

        I get that him passing Ray Lewis on the total tackles for a year is a big deal, but not so much for some of us. It simply means he’s getting more tackles further down field due to a porous DLine, not that he’s balling out at the LOS. It’s like looking at Flowers tackle total when he was a starter. The guy had a lot. Unfortunately they were after a big gain.

        • icb12 says:

          Who would you rather have doing Bobby’s job?

          • Shane says:

            In the soft zone PC scheme all you need is a middle backer who’ll make the tackle 5-10 yrds downfield. A guy like that shouldn’t be paid 18 mil a year. I’m sure there’s plenty of guys who could do adequate in this bend, but don’t break D, and for way less.

          • Rob Staton says:

            Someone a lot cheaper

            He isn’t playing well

            • Shane says:

              I cant remember the last game where his play tilted the field. That home game against SF in 2017 maybe. Since then I can’t think of a game where he’s been an 18 mil a yr player. He’s had good games, but at 18 a yr your play must tilt the field. And right now he’s making alot of business decisions before tackling. Can not wait to see this team get blown up and start an actual rebuild.

      • Rob Staton says:

        Tackles are a nothing statistic IMO

        If you make tackles 10 yards downfield 10 times a game, are you doing a good job?

        • pdway says:

          high tackle numbers are also a function of our defense being on the field forever, and the massive disparity in the # of plays our opponents are getting on offense vs. ours. every play that doesn’t result in a TD, results in a tackle…and we are out there for WAY more plays than most any team in the league right now.

          • cha says:

            Seahawks leading the NFL in defensive first downs conceded by a wide margin.

            They have conceded 50% more first downs than the best team in the NFL.

            Lots more chances for tackles being allowed.

      • GoHawksDani says:

        Total tackles is such a bad stat.
        You get one if you tackle someone 1 yard deep or 40 yards deep
        You’ll have like 40 total is your DL is doing their job. You’ll get 190 if your DL sucks at stopping the run at the LoS

    • Shane says:

      Careful Rob. There’re lurkers here from that other site. And they need trigger warnings before you speak things they consider anathema.

      • Roy Batty says:

        There are a few holdouts on FG’s who absolutely refuse to acknowledge the depth of the problems, but most are now pretty much parroting what Rob has said for the last few seasons.

        Those few holdouts are hilarious in their delusional take. Someone asked them why it’s OK to jettison a player at the drop of a hat when they obviously reach the cliff, yet Pete Carroll is immune?

        Culture. Winning seasons. Culture. One season isn’t a career. Culture. SB48. Culture.

        Good grief.

      • Kyle says:

        Field Gulls has regressed dramatically this decade. John Gilbert’s takes alternate between obvious short posts and utter trash. The entire site was all in on “let’s pass every down because science tells us to do that” and loved the Waldron hire.

        It’s really depressing that the best Seahawks observers, except for Rob, have mostly moved on or are writing and posting far less than they have done.

  17. Jordan says:

    Keep Russ, see if you can get McClay out of Dallas (they draft really well and he’ll never get to be in charge there) , Moore/Roman/Dabol/Toub/Leonhard for Head Coach.

  18. Poli says:

    This article from should give Hawks fans hope that Jody Allen is indeed an active owner. Recently firing the successful HC on the Blazers, and her right hand man even attends Hawks pressers.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/the-seahawks-have-collapsed-what-will-ownership-do/ar-AARjQ4T?ocid=oie8dlpg&li=BBnbfcL

    • 12th chuck says:

      the glimmer of hope we really needed, not a win in Washinton

    • Matthew says:

      Thanks for posting this. Based on the handling of the Blazers, I don’t see any reason to think Allen isn’t watching closely, and willing to make moves. Just not sure which ones? I wouldn’t be surprised if PCJS
      Are retained, and Wilson departs.

      • Jordan says:

        Yep, it can’t be one or the other anymore.

        Either stick with PCJS, trade Russ, and lean into what made you successful initially – young, mean, hungry, players, every job open to competition with the QB being a facilitator. Don’t give up valuable assets for stars from elsewhere. Unger/Graham was symbolic in so many ways – don’t do stuff like that going forward.

        Commit to Russ and the weapons and bring in a new, modern vision at the top to guide phase 2 of Russ/Hawks.

        I could be sold on a redux with either faction. But it’s stale together.

        • Jordan says:

          Caveat of course being that they way PCJS have identified and acquired talent has become alarmingly bad, so I’m not sure I’d entrust them with a redux.

  19. cha says:

    Press conf today

    Pete says they signed Adrian Peterson to win

    Pete mocks Corbin for saying the playoff chances are less than 1% and says no, he is not going to give young players more reps, he wants to win each week

    Pete says Carlos Dunlap only got 4 snaps because of the way they rotated their DL

    Gregg Bell asks if this poor season has changed Pete’s future plans and he says no

    • Rob Staton says:

      The Adrian Peterson signing is pure desperation

      • BobbyK says:

        It’s Tim Ruskell signing Edgerrin James. That’s where Pete has taken this team – to where Ruskell ran it down to, except Ruskell had a couple 1st round picks for the future whereas Pete/John have raided the upcoming draft.

      • Roy Batty says:

        My first thought was, “Sweet Lord. Franco Harris…again?”

        • BobbyK says:

          Except we were a young and up and coming team when we got Franco. This feels like Edge James being added to a bad team.

    • jed says:

      Seems like it’s easier to ask tough questions when the team is bad.

      The AP signing is like a real life parable about Pete. Dude’s peak was 2004 – 2015 (which is amazing in football) and has been living on the past ever since.

    • 12th chuck says:

      waste of resources. I will be glad to eat crow and admit if he has production, but there is a reason nobody wanted him. It would be way smarter to sign somebody with some youth/ longer term prospects than adrian imo

    • Peter says:

      I enjoy not winning as much as the next person. And since we are already not winning by not giving young guys reps I concur it is unadvisable to let young guys get reps since there’s no guarantee you can continue not winning by not trotting out the same line up that is already not winning.

      …….

      Maybe Russ is really done and I am just being a pollyanna by hoping this is an aberation.

      But Pete is well and truly cooked.

    • GoHawksDani says:

      I hope Jody pulls the trigger. I’m not convinced this will be a nice divorce from Pete

  20. Starhawk29 says:

    Love the breakdown on Ridder. For better or for worse, he’s the only QB this draft that I honestly believe could be a superstar. He is absolutely a mid-round pick, the issues Rob highlighted are real and concerning. I also don’t love the offense he’s in and worry that he’d need time to be able to run a true pro-style system. But man, those flashes have had me salivating for two years. Regarding his weight and thin build, he reminds me of Deshaun Watson. If memory serves, Watson was 6’3″, 215 lbs. Watson’s been dinged up, but that ultimately isn’t what’s really keeping him off the field. I’ve made the comparison here before, but I see a little bit of Dak Prescott in his throwing. In college he was so inconsistent, some nice throws and some really awful ones. But to his credit he’s grown from a 4th round pick to a legit stud (at least top 10 at the position). With Ridder I think it will all be about where he lands. If he goes to a competent franchise that can give him time and support, I think he succeeds. If he goes to a dumpster fire I think he ends up a turnover machine. Dak got a great Oline, RB, and a handful of good targets, and used that to settle in and grow. I think he’d be out of the league by now if he’d been picked by the Jags or Jets.

  21. BobbyK says:

    There isn’t much difference between Tim Ruskell in 2009 and Pete Carroll in 2021.

    • TomLPDX says:

      That was bellow the belt Bobby. Pete isn’t Tim…he’s just lost his way (have some compassion, man!). Ruskell was just incompetent.

      • BobbyK says:

        Ruskell did a great job initially by drafting Lofa Tatupu and making those great low key free agent signings like Chuck Darby and Joe Jurevicius. That help get the team to the Super Bowl.

        After that first year honeymoon where he had done a good job, he was somewhat like Pete Carroll of these past few years now. Drafts sucked, money mismanaged, poor use of resources. He was absolutely like Pete Carroll has been. Even Ruskell wouldn’t have been dumb enough to trade a pair of No. 1 picks for Jamal Adams. At least Ruskell left the team with multiple 1st round picks at the end of his tenure, whereas Carroll has screwed our upcoming draft over.

        • 12th chuck says:

          i would beg to differ on Ruskell. He inherited a Ted Thompson team, constantly fought with Holgren in personnel decisions, failing to franchise Hutchison etc, he kept two kickers on the 53 man to encourage competition. I’m not saying he didn’t do anything good; He just did a lot more bonehead moves

          • BobbyK says:

            But the first year was good. That was the only good year but it was good. Yes – the rest of the years sucked… like Carroll these past number of years now with personnel decisions. It’s very Ruskell-like… especially now this Adrian Peterson move.

            • Kyle says:

              I fully agree with Bobby here. Holmgren was overrated as a talent evaluator and it took him far too long to put the pieces together. What Russell added that first season happened to be the missing pieces that complemented what was in place. The high floor high character adds were just enough to put that team in the Super Bowl.

  22. BobbyK says:

    Anyone see the Tonya Bailey comments on Twitter? A friend of mine send the quotes to me. Basically, she said the mood at the VMAC is unlike anything ever and some players on both sides of the ball have turned against Wilson and would actually prefer Geno.

    • Peter says:

      Hey russ sucks.

      Too bad outside of lockett and I guess dickson there’s no one on either side of the ball that isn’t replacement level or has done anything this season to justify complaining about one player because their own play was beyond reproach and was getting the team anywhere near winning.

      • Peter says:

        I could see it if the run game was dominate or the defense PRIOR to the second half wasn’t letting colt mccoy lolly gag his way down the field for nine plus minutes in a first quarter drive but neither is happening.

    • J.P. says:

      Same thing that happened back then really. Defense turned on Wilson, his top receiver started turning on him and who knows who else?

      It’s been my fear ever since the latter portion of last season when Metcalf began showing his frustration. First, you think it’s the OC, then after some time, you watch enough and the finger starts moving in the direction of the guy that is throwing the football.

      It’s interesting really, DK Metcalf. Saw him on the sidelines looking frustrated and talking to Geno multiple times. Just thought it was rather curious considering him and Wilson were like “brothers” not too long ago.

  23. Roy Batty says:

    Carroll is now officially the most hated sports celebrity in my neck of the woods, Spokane. Hands down.

    Every single person at work is railing against him. Every. Single. One.

    And these are people that praised him a few weeks ago with excuses about Russ and his finger, Carson going down, the refs, his legacy…yada, yada, yada.

    One guy has the same friggin’ tattoo as Mina Kimes, and he is by far the most vocal with his hatred of Pete Carroll. The same guy who said Russ needs to be shown the door via trade as soon as the season ends, and Schneider needs to be fired. The same guy who went off on how any game manger-type QB would thrive right now in Pete Carroll’s system.

    The shark has officially been jumped after the Peterson signing with these fans.

    • Peter says:

      The fonz ski jumping over a shark wpuld be more entertaining thsn this season

    • sonicreducer says:

      Hey I’m in Spokane too.

      Most everyone I know here has indeed turned on Pete, many on Russ as well. “In PC/JS we trust” is long gone, has been for a while, actually.
      Personally, I feel Russ is just in a funk right now and he will work himself out of it. I like the idea of Sean Payton as the next HC. Jody should do whatever it takes to make this happen.

      And speaking of HC’s, folks over here love the DeBoer hire at UW. Ammo for the argument that UW is NOT an elite program.

      • Roy Batty says:

        DeBoer has been a winner at each level of his career. His biggest challenge at the UW will be recruiting and transfers. He has a link to the kids from the Central Valley, so that will be a tremendous help. However, the Riley hire at USC pretty much eff’d up every other Pac12 program’s recruiting out of California.

        I think the Dawgs went with DeBoer simply for a change of pace. Not an internal hire. Not a big name. Not a lot of flash. Just a successful coach who has shown a knack for dynamic football.

  24. Hello Rob thank you for your last article it was definitely good.i totally agree unfortunately Bobby Wagner should probably go he has lost a step sure he makes some tackles usually 6 yards down the field..now the Seahawks haven’t done him a lot favors remember Kevin Williams or Tony McDaniel or Clinton McDonald or Brandon Mebane or red Bryant. Now we have Al woods and poona Ford not exactly the same. Can you make the agruement if you let KJ Wright walk can you Bobby Wagner go. Besides this I wonder what the Seahawks thinking was opening the seasonwith the center position.its been a problem since game one nobody should be surprised

  25. Shane says:

    I hear ya Rob, you really don’t want to go down this road studying potential QBs, but its where things are. I also hear you intimating “be careful what you wish for”. Im not to careful of a fan… Sooo Im excited thinking about a QB on his rookie deal with an innovative offensive minded coach to help develop him, along with a GM who’s drafting and signing BAMFs on both sides of the line… Ridder is interesting. No doubt he’ll get expensive if he shows out in the playoffs against a P5 school, but I would hope the Hawks new GM doesn’t get all crazy chasing a flavor of the season QB in the 1st or 2nd rounds, at least in 2022 (If I get my wish of both Giant’s 1st rounders this year and a 2023 1st). But if Ridder’s there in the 3rd take a flyer he couldn’t be any worse than Geno. Not even sure we have a 3rd this year. Thank you PC/JS!

    • Peter says:

      You’re kind of asking for a lot of things here.

      A new rookie QB.

      A new head coach and GM.

      Unfortunately outside of the late Al Davis and maybe Jerry Jones I can’t see any owner or group getting rid of three pieces like that at the same time.

      The other problem with this notion of a “cheap rookie contracts,” is if your QB is any good see: Wilson, Mahomes, they get super expensive really quickly. As yet no one in Football has been able to money ball their way to success.

      You mention wanting an inovative coach and gm drafting well. So counter, why would you just not keep Wilson who hasn’t cost a red cent in regards to resigning players or paying free agents and just pair him with an innovative coach and a gm who can draft?

      • Shane says:

        I’m a fan, I have all kinds of irrational wishes. I wish the Hawks to win the SB every season, that wish has zero chance of happening the next few seasons as they are dreadful in most areas, except punting…. Now onto Russ with a new coach. Russ has had his chance to develop. Im of the belief that he is what he is and he’s in decline. He’s an athletic QB, who isn’t athletic anymore and he hasn’t compensated his style of play with that loss of athleticism. I have zero hope that Russ will develop his game with a different coach, not enough to push the Hawks into SB contention. I see the allure of such a thought as he was the QB who brought us our first SB win, and would love to see him without PC holding the offense in vanilla mode. But let’s look at reality. Trent Dilfer in his prime could have brought Seattle it’s first SB with all those BAMFs on that 2013 team. I dont see a path where the Hawks can get BAMFs on both sides in such a short time where Russ might still have a smidge of his game left, especially wiith a bankrupt 2022 draft (unless some big trades are made). I think the better question to ask is what path could realistically put the Hawks back into contending for SBs? I think with Russ we can be .500 or maybe squeak into a wildcard game, and that’s the bullcase. As a fan I’m ready for something different.

  26. Sea Mode says:

    That was 17 years ago, Pete. 17 years! Talk about living in the past…

    Brady Henderson
    @BradyHenderson
    ·9h

    Pete Carroll says the Seahawks just signed RB Adrian Peterson to their practice squad. Said he tried to get him to USC back in the day and that he told him that they “finally got him.”

  27. Sea Mode says:

    You mean what Rob has been saying…? 😁

    Albert Breer
    @AlbertBreer
    ·9h

    Thru my conversations, this year’s draft is likely to look a LOT like 2013 … Not many elite prospects, and a really shaky QB class that may not have a true first-round kid.

    Doesn’t means it’s a bad class top-to-bottom, but sure looking like a bad year to pick in the Top 10.

  28. I wonder if Pete would be interested in the Notre Dame job.

  29. L80 says:

    Here is how bad it is for me personally. The Hawks play 35 miles from my house on 12-12 (of all days)…..That same day TSO plays 2 shows in town. Guess where I’ll be?

  30. swedenhawk says:

    Ugh. Mike Salk is insufferable.

    • Roy Batty says:

      As my earlier posts tells the story, even my diehard Hawk coworkers have switched Salk off the office radio. His railing against everything wrong with the team, except Carroll, has tripped them over the edge. We now listen to ESPN via satellite. Not much better, but at least they aren’t kneeling at the alter of Pete.

      • Paul Cook says:

        It’s sycophantic if you’re firmly entrenched in PC’s corner now. He’s basically in charge of everything, scheme, draft, trades, etc… You just aren’t objective if you don’t acknowledge the personnel we’ve replaced the SB team with, the weak drafts, the poor choices of assistant coaches, and the JA Adams trade which is almost in a class by itself in terms of a reach.

        There’s just no defense for him now. It’s actually quite sad and leaning towards the pathetic now.

      • AlaskaHawk says:

        AT this point I have to wonder why John Schneider continues to tie himself to PC. His reputation is going down along with PCs. I guess it’s the money?? Or is he hoping for a greater role after Pete is gone?

        I don’t blame JS for what has happened, as far as I can tell he just follows orders.

    • Aaron says:

      710 has been in steady decline since the Brock and Salk daily radio show ended. It’s basically a rotting corpse held together by Salk.

    • Big Mike says:

      Why don’t you guys listen tom KJR?

  31. cha says:

    Javonte Williams is good.

    4.9 yards per carry

    He is also tied for the NFL lead in broken tackles in the running game with 19. Only…the other runners in the top 5 have far more carries. When you take it down to broken tackles per carry, holy smokes:

    Joe Mixon 10.9
    Antonio Gibson 10.2
    Jonthan Taylor 12.3
    NIck Chubb 9.4

    Javonte Williams is breaking a tackle every 6.2 runs.

    • BobbyK says:

      We’ve been pleading/crying for a RB from Chubb to Taylor to Williams but we have idiots who prefer to stick with Mr. Injury EVERY Year Guy and Penny. And Pete supposedly wants to run the ball with bums. I don’t get it.

      • Peter says:

        Cj procise is bound to break out any day now.

        • BobbyK says:

          Add him to Carson and Penny and you’d have the most injured trio of NFL RBs on one roster in history!

          • TomLPDX says:

            You know what is really sad is that each of these guys are good players and injuries have killed them. Prosise was a dynamic player, so was Penny. Chris is a bull in a china shop…but they can’t stay on the field. So sad.

  32. Cortez Kennedy says:

    Ownership needs to get off their hands and fire Carroll now.

    Sell the team or hire somebody to run it. They have had plenty of time and I want to see a committent to Wilson. I don’t need to hear any more of Carroll’s hokey, clueless garbage.

    • Matthew says:

      Fire the best coach the franchise has ever had with 6 games left of meaningless season? Pointless. Have talks behind the scenes that we want you to step away at the end of the year, or be fired. He deserves it. The team hasn’t quite on him, and what can be accomplished long term in 6 games?

  33. David Stacey says:

    Saw 2/3 Hawkblogger crew take a shot at you re the Bobby and Jamal YouTube clip.
    Clearly they think paying a guy $18 mil where the only impact I can see is dude being rolled over 6-7 yards down the field (whilst racking up his ‘tackles’ stat line in the process) or being carried into the end zone by running backs and 17mil and a couple of 1sts for a box safety who doesn’t even bother to attempt a tackle at the goal line is good effort and good value for money.

    Needless to say ‘team Rob!’

    • Rob Staton says:

      Thanks, but I don’t want a team vs “Real Hawk Talk”.

      Let them go down that road if they wish. I’ll keep putting out the stuff I think is relevant. I think we’ve been on top of the big topics for the last two years — and I know we’re on top of this one too. I’m not going to worry about what a couple of others say.

      • All I see is 12s says:

        To be fair, the one who said it was Ernst. Brian and Dana didn’t really acknowledge it. I’ve always considered NE to be beneath comment anyway so I wouldn’t let it bother anyone…

        • David Stacey says:

          Dana’s facial reaction was pretty damning I thought. As if taking a moral high ground.
          But I do agree it’s only really worth listening to Jeff who is on point and offers great commentary and Brian sometimes and even Evan occasionally . But the other 2 I tend to ignore.
          Did Ernst not watch Beast Mode ?!

          But yes Rob you have been well ahead of the curve I vividly remember you commenting on the 2 1sts for Adam’s and saying ‘this might be a year when Russ gets injured and you’re picking in the top 10.’

          The chickens have indeed come home to roost for this FO

        • bmseattle says:

          I seem to remember Ernst suggesting that trading Wagner was a smart idea a couple of years ago.
          This would imply that he doesn’t think he’s worth the money he is making… which is exactly Rob’s point.
          I’m not sure why he acted so offended by Rob’s video.

          • Rob Staton says:

            Probably because there’s a very established narrative with Wagner.

            I know people within the game who have picked up on what I’ve ended up highlighting in a video. That it appears he is avoiding contact and that his level of performance has dropped off.

            When we’re talking about a player set to earn $20m on the cap next season, I think this is worth highlighting.

            I don’t usually watch all-22 for Seahawks games but I did for this angle. And it’s there.

            If people want to scoff without analysing this to the extent I have, that’s their call. I know there is an issue with Wagner’s play and his contract.

            • Rob Staton says:

              Just seen the clip everyone is referring to.

              Funny isn’t it really, how I’ve had two members from that podcast on my streams. Been very complimentary of them both too and had some very good discussions that went down a storm with viewers.

              Meanwhile on their own podcast/stream, they sit back and nod along to this.

              His push back is lazy too. It’s basically “you can’t question the effort levels of certain players and question if they provide value for money… simply because they play a very physical sport.”

              What I have singled out and tried to raise awareness to is something people who know a lot more than any of us do are talking about. You can take that my word on that.

              • Peter says:

                People like sports for a ton of reasons.

                But at the end of the day from messi, to lebron james, to wagner all professional team sports boils down quite simply to:

                Does player x provide y value relative to money paid.

                You’re the journalist. Unless a gm/owner is a fool and miscalculates isn’t that why and how contracts are structured? Bobby wagner at one time was the best or near the best middle linebacker in football and got paid like it to play like it.

      • Roy Batty says:

        It’s why I love this site.

        No drama, just honest opinion backed up by facts.

        No hot takes, just people passionate about a team, without being blinded by that passion.

        Refreshing.

    • Matthew says:

      Hawkblogger brought himself down a notch by association. I still respect his opinion, and paired with Rob’s and a few others I feel like you get a good expert opinion on things.

  34. clbradley17 says:

    Chris Simms with more on Seahawks failing offense. Mentioned that we have twice had 5 in a row 3 and outs in a game this year; no other team has even one.

    Off-kilter’ offense the root of Seattle struggles
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DMyYO2rtjo&t=183s

    • BobbyK says:

      It’s amazing how they can go 3-and-out so often. It’s not just those two games where they’re bad. They’ve lost the TOP in every game this season except when they played Jacksonville. That’s a new kind of embarrassing this late in the season.

      They can’t run. They can’t throw. They don’t have enough horses on the OL to control the LOS. They have Brown and they have Lewis. Those guys can win in the run game more times than not. But all other OL are not physical enough to win in the run game. At least Shell doesn’t suck in pass protection, unlike Pocic, Fuller, and Jackson who all just kind of suck some weeks and totally suck other weeks.

      As bad as I think the defense is – they’re not as bad as I thought they were going to be, in spite of the fact they have no player who can consistently get after the QB. They’ve actually played admirably considering the “help” from the offense. Not that they’re without fault, because they are, but it’s the offense hindering this team at this point in time.

      If they want to be physical to run the ball – they need at least 2 more guys on the OL that can run block like Brown and Lewis and they need to wake up and realize they can’t count on Chris Carson to stay healthy when he’s never done so in the past 9 years of his career.

    • Roy Batty says:

      We posted about this earlier, but Simms point about Pete not really talking much about his beloved defense allowing 8, 9, 10 minute drives is just blatant bias. As he put it, how can an offense get into a rhythm if they’re standing by the Gatorade for a 1/2 hour at a time? Offenses need to get into a flow, just like defenses need to not get gassed.

      Some fans are pointing out the points per drive given up, and how the Hawks are doing really well with that.

      So what? Even if you hold the opposition to a field goal, what does it matter if it’s taken almost all of the remaining time on the clock for them to score and your offense has been sitting on their asses? And, what QB have they faced that has been a true scoring threat dating back to the Steelers game? Even Rodgers was coming back from COVID and didn’t get to practice until the day before.

      Pointing to the one stat they appear good at is not helping your case when you neglect to mention the fact that the defense is near or at the bottom of the league in so many other stats.

      There is nothing working well on either side of the ball.

      • Rob Staton says:

        There is some cherry picking going on with the defense. They are extremely poor in a number of areas.

        And I truly appreciate that points per game is an important stat. But it’s also without context. What if Heinecke, Jameis, Big Ben, Colt McCoy and Trevor Lawrence are not that great at finishing drives in the short field area? I mean, who have they really played? Aaron Rodgers after his self imposed absence? How sharp did Rodgers look in that game???

        So yes, they deserve credit for teams not putting up a ton of points given the offense has been a disaster. But they can’t pressure, they can’t sack, they don’t force turnovers, they too easily give up extremely long drives. And they are passive, IMO.

        They are not a good unit. And it feels like people are trying to confirm some priors when they talk about the defense.

        As with last year, I suspect a game will be forthcoming when the truth will out.

        • Roy Batty says:

          I shudder to think what might have happened if Murray had played in the Cardinals game. McCoy was more than challenge. Now, add in a mobile gunslinger.

          Yikes.

  35. dandd393 says:

    Rob what’s your thoughts on what Florio and Simms were saying about maybe they keep Pete cause the buy out will be too high also if he decides to retire in assuming he forfeit’s his salary going forward

    • Rob Staton says:

      I can see why he raised it but let’s also remember that:

      1. I think Pete will walk, for the reasons detailed in many articles and pods this year

      2. The Allen family won’t need to worry about cash flow. And if they are operating that way, we’re in big trouble

    • jed says:

      Well, Jody did just fire the Blazers GM. It could be because of the workplace violations and that doesn’t seem like something Pete & John would do, but I have to true insight into that.

      Very similar organizations between the Blazers and Seahawks so it gives me a little hope she’ll make changes at the top.

  36. Olyhawksfan says:

    The Saints must be panicking about their QB situation after that showing from Hill. You want Russ? How about 4 1sts, Lattimore, and your first born.

    • Roy Batty says:

      Isn’t there a cap on the number of years you can trade away?

      So the Saints would have to do something like trade their 2022 pick right after picking it, along with the next 3 years of first rounders. Or, possibly 2 seconds to go with the 3 firsts.

      Regardless, it would a draft day to remember, good or bad.

  37. Rob Staton says:

    Tony Pauline reporting some people in the league think Trevor Penning will go before Evan Neal.

    As I’ve been saying…

    • Peter says:

      Really interested to see/hear how he does at the senior bowl. I was going to watch something on youtube with him but northern iowa -or- north iowa does not play anyone of note.

      It’s a goofy way of doing things but i just try to watch a player’s game against their hardest opponent(s).

    • Peter says:

      Rob. Apropos of nothing I think if Seattle trades DK Metcalf…..for reasons such as: he and russ can not jibe. That in his third season he has alot of balls clang off his hands.

      I think i’d like to see Jordan Davis, GA. He might be my favorite player this year. And i get the value of a two down run stuff. This team can’t stop the run and this is a bit out there as a reason but who on Seattle’s d has any fire any more?

  38. 206 says:

    Mike Salk doesn’t want Pete Carroll fired. Says people just want a change or the hell of it. Such a Pete Carroll fan boy.

    • 206 says:

      Yeah. This morning he was just rambling about how good a leader Pete is and blah blah blah. Also saying how he thinks the team and Pete should be criticized but not fired. Hey Mike heres an idea, because you are the host of ESPN radio in Seattle and interview Pete every week, why don’t you do some criticizing?

      • Rob Staton says:

        I don’t really understand what he’s doing here.

        Who wants to listen to this?

        • 206 says:

          Not me. I was excited when he got hired back but it’s been a disappointment. Go Mariners!

          • Rob Staton says:

            Even if you firmly believe Pete Carroll is the best coach that ever lived — you have to read the mood of the fans and shape your topics accordingly. It can’t be a lecture on why you’re all wrong and one man is right.

            • cha says:

              Danny O’Niell begs to differ.

              Remember him picking twitter fights with fans?

              • TomLPDX says:

                I’ve wondered why Brock continues to be involved with this guy, he obviously is on a new and lucrative trajectory and stuff like this is a negative for him, not a positive. I enjoy Brock’s game calling and would love to see him ascend to the NFL.

                • Rob Staton says:

                  They’ve broadcast together for a long time so I get it.

                  It just seems to me that, at the moment, any time Brock says anything he’s quickly talked over or disagreed with. I want to hear Brock’s views.

          • Big Mike says:

            “Go Mariners!”
            Here, here….but is there even going to be a season? I sure do hope so because man they look to be doing everything right these days. You know kind of like the seahawks used to do.

            • TomLPDX says:

              I gave up on baseball in the 90’s during their dispute and I was a HUGE baseball nut (Braves and Astros when they were in the national league).

  39. Peter says:

    There’s a lot of division amongst fans about who is at fault for this mess.

    At the same time we often get trapped in “what if?” draft scenarios.

    Something we rarely talk about unless it’s cynically is PC’s ability to recruit.

    I know these players are not at their prime. But can someone explain to me how after trading for clowney and richardson and having one of your own drafted players turn out to be solid-to-good in jarran Reed this team couldn’t retain any of them? Or how about this for roster building…for the cost of Jamal Adams this year you could have a dline with: reed, clowney, and richardson (plus everyone else,) and spent 4 million less….

    • cha says:

      Or if you want to just go like for like, they could have traded less than what they gave up for Adams and gotten Calais Campbell, Stephon Diggs and Yannick Ngakoue.

      • MychestisBeastmode says:

        Sure, Cha. But how would we have attained that intangible spark of energy we get on the field from JA? 😑

      • Peter says:

        Cha no doubt that would be a haul. I was just thinking in terms of retaining players that were here and how this team can not seem to do that.

        But those three you mentioned? Oof. That would have been awesome.

        • cha says:

          At this point though, my confidence level in this coaching staff is so low, I think we’d be talking about why Diggs is only being targeted twice per game ‘because he’s a big part of our offense and we have plays for him but they’re not there’ early in the game and why Ngakoue is only getting 8 snaps because ‘we are having substitution problems’

          • Blitzy the Clown says:

            Exactly. It’s not just the horrendous drafting/FA roster construction decisions. It’s the abysmal utilization of the roster they constructed. Why should we think adding Diggs (or OBJ) would make any difference on a team where DK gets ONE target late in the 4th quarter?

            Zero confidence in this coaching staff.

            On a side note, I watched Carroll’s Tuesday presser when he was asked if his future plans have changed any in light of how bad things are with the franchise. I’m not a body language expert, but I know some things about it, and Pete’s nonverbal cues said a lot more to me than his verbal answer.

            After the question was posed, Pete paused before answering, looked to his right/upper right (a cue many body language experts believe is a signal of dishonesty), pursed his lips tight while simultaneously puffing them out slightly (an indication of annoyance and contempt), then said “no”

            I don’t think he was being honest, and I think he was clearly annoyed at being asked that and having to give an answer.

      • Big Mike says:

        Campbell, Diggs and Ngakoue? God how depressing.

  40. clbradley17 says:

    Another fire Pete point from ESPN’s Brady Henderson: “The Seahawks have by far the NFL’s worst time-of-possession margin at minus-11:57. With their offense struggling again Monday night and Washington mounting a couple long drives, their defense was on the field for over 41 minutes.” So we average almost negative 12 minutes in time of possession, and recently more than once it’s around or over 20 min. in the negative. Pitiful. And Pete’s wondering why we don’t win if we have more turnovers. Idiot!

  41. Big Mike says:

    So what’s the ‘hitting rock bottom’ point guys? A loss to Houston? A loss to Detroit? Both?

    • Scot04 says:

      To me we’re already there regardless of what happens from here. They should just play the young guys and see what we have in them. The Adrian Peterson signing is laughable.

    • Roy Batty says:

      Rock bottom is achieved when your team becomes the punchline of so many jokes by football insiders, talking heads and their own fan base.

      So, in a nutshell, achievement achieved.

      • JimQ says:

        AP is Proof that Pete Caroll is very much living —> in the past. The time is NOW (or at seasons end), for a new coach before the fan base as well as the local media give up on the Seahawks entirely & we all shift to being hockey fans, and I don’t care much for hockey at all. Seahawk ownership must act —soon— because it will only get a lot worse without ownership intervention. PC needs to be gifted a rocking chair with his current mental decline. IF RW has some input to the reorganization, maybe? he’ll stay, if he thinks the new coaches can fix this team after years of PC/JS neglect and ineptness in the draft, FA & trades.

        I agree an offensive minded coach that works well with his OC and a solid DC to exclusively run the defense without intervention from the HC is the best road map back to success. Hopefully, ownership will enlist some really good people to help with the search for a good new HC.

    • Ashish says:

      So frustrating would have hope to tank to get high pick but Pete has screwed big time. I want hawks to fail so Pete is kicked out without fail. I will not surprised if we are not able to win a game, such a pathetic game planning.

  42. pdway says:

    The Ringer has a feature piece up on the Hawks – and this excerpt:

    “From the triumvirate mentioned above, the most likely to depart seems to be Wilson. Carroll and Schneider are under contract through 2025 and 2027, respectively, and both have track records strong enough to get through a bad season without landing on a hot seat. Wilson is signed through 2023 but was already the subject of trade rumors last offseason when it was reported that he would waive his no-trade clause and accept a deal that sent him to a selection of teams—at that point, the Cowboys, Saints, Raiders, and Bears.”

    And this is what kind of scares me, b/c I think if you’re not watching closely, and look at the track record on it’s own (which, let’s face it, is the factor most will value highest) – it makes sense.

    If it is what happens – it just pushes everything back 2 crappy hard-to-watch years. Just hope that someone w decision-making authority is noting the trendline.

    • TomLPDX says:

      Here’s the thing about Jody, though. She is going through high drama with the Trailblazers right now and might want a breather…the Seahawks FO is crappy, but they aren’t slimy if you know what I mean. This could very well be the outcome for next year…get rid of Russ, give Pete and John one more year and see how it goes. As a fan I hate this, but from a business POV, it makes sense.

    • BobbyK says:

      On the surface, it is just one bad year.

      That being said, the reality is it has taken too many horrific offseasons in a row to get here now. When you consistently waste free agent dollars and draft like crap – these are the consequences.

      Going “one more year” with the ship that is sinking you doesn’t always make the most sense.

  43. JJ says:

    PFF with some “news” on Wilson might not needing to force his way out of Seattle.

    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-week-13-doug-kyed-mailbag-tom-brady-russell-wilson-deshaun-watson

  44. STTBM says:

    How bad is the Texans run D?! Still, Penny has played so very well today. He looked like he’d forgotten how to play football a month ago….today he’s averaging 5 ypc not counting his 2 long TD runs!

    Really cool to see him run hard within the hashes, not just on sweeps and pitchouts! A good thing too because Collins hasnt looked right since the fourth quarter of the Pitts game…