A word of advice to the 2013 quarterback class: avoid shirtless glamour photos
Do you know which player was one of the worst quarterbacks in NFL history last season? Did you guess Ryan Lindley? If you did, you’d be right. With that in mind, consider this quarterback comparison.
Quarterback A: 54.3 completion rate, 6/9 TD/INT ratio, 6.3 YPA, 66.6 QB rating.
Quarterback B: 52.2 completion rate, 0/7 TD/INT ratio, 4.4 YPA , 46.7 QB rating.
Quarterback C: 53.4 completion rate, 0/8 TD/INT ratio, 5.4 YPA, 49.9 QB rating.
Quarterback A isn’t very good, but he looks like Aaron Rodgers in comparison to quarterbacks B and C. Quarterback B is 2012 Ryan Lindley. Quarterback C is 2012 Brady Quinn- when his outlier performance against Kansas City is excluded (more on that in a minute). The relatively sterling Quarterback A? Curtis Painter.
I think a lot of people have a falsely good image of Brady Quinn based on all the publicity he received for thrashing the Carolina Panthers last season- which happened to be the only game that Carolina lost in their final six contests. In that game Quinn was 19/23 with 8.7 yards per attempt and two touchdowns against zero interceptions. It was no doubt a great performance, especially when you consider how well the Panthers’ defense played down the stretch last season.
But when you look at the sum of his other 2012 performances (Quarterback C above), the obvious conclusion is that Quinn’s week 13 performance is among the greatest single game outliers of all time. I’d compare it to Aaron Curry against Jacksonville in 2009. If you saw that Jacksonville game and knew nothing else, your perception of Curry would be very different. And also very inaccurate.
Truly awful quarterbacks tend to play for truly awful teams, and the Chiefs are certainly that, their laughable 2012 pro-bowl list aside. It stands to reason that Brady Quinn would be more successful here than he was in Cleveland, Denver, or Kansas City. Yet I still can’t get over how bad Quinn was last year. He was one extreme outlier performance away from playing at a Ryan Lindley level, and Ryan Lindley was a rookie in a hopeless situation (on a team that had the NFL’s toughest schedule).
Quinn’s career numbers are right in line with 2011 Curtis Painter. I know he’s not assured a roster spot even if signed, and backups are rarely depended on. But I think I’d rather spend a roster spot on a second kicker than spend one on a second quarterback named Brady Quinn.
The last time that Matt Leinart worked with Pete Carroll, he was hoisting a Heisman trophy in one hand and a national championship trophy in the other. It’s been a precipitous fall from grace since then, and I think it’s more than fair to question Leinart’s desire to play the game at this point. He truly seems to have “checked out” emotionally and mentally some time ago.
He’s also left handed. As a fellow lefty I would normally be a fan, but I only see disadvantages with flipping formations, especially when we have a left guard who always wants to play on the left. And if Seattle wanted to add a read option cabaple quarterback, that’s not Leinart.
Seneca Wallace. Tyler Thigpen. Matt Leinart. Brady Quinn. Those are the quarterbacks the Seahawks brought in for a look-see this past week. Leave no stone unturned, indeed.
As a very young kid living in Spokane, myself and a friend would go out in the countryside during the summer and flip rocks looking for crickets. It was all fun and games until one day my friend flipped over a rock and was oblivious to a black widow less than two inches from his hand. It took him several seconds to notice. A black widow bite to the hand of a 7 year old is bad news. Thankfully, black widows are not as aggressive as people think, and nobody was hurt. That was the last time we ever flipped a rock looking for crickets, though.
It is often believed that there is no harm in looking at bad players. That said, I think the Mariners would probably be better off right now without Jason Bay or Raul Ibanez. They had to clear out a better, younger player in Casper Wells to make room for them. ESPN’s Ed Werder is “reporting” that the workout competition appears to be down to Brady Quinn and Matt Leinart now. What if Josh Portis or an interesting 2013 draft pick is the one who becomes expendable for the likes or those two? I trust our front office- “trust” is an understatement- but they are not immune to questionable roster cuts. Why tempt a mistake? Even if none of those quarterbacks make the final roster, they are still using preseason reps that would be better served with another option, and I have one such option in mind.
Please excuse me for my long winded and meandering preamble. However I felt was necessary to set the table for the first of my preferred offseason moves that remain for the taking. There is an obvious remaining candidate for Seattle’s backup job, and as yet he hasn’t yet been connected to the Seahawks. That player is Tarvaris Jackson. Funny enough. At first it seemed like a crazy idea, but the more I mulled on it the more I realized it was the best move the Seahawks can make to address the backup job outside of the NFL draft.
Jackson had a mixed performance as the Seahawks starter in 2011. He was terrible at the start behind a then miserable offensive line. Then he appeared to turn the corner against the Falcons and Giants. Then he got hurt. Then he struggled with up and down performances. Yet near the end of that season Jackson seemed to be getting healthy and back on track. He had a 93 passer rating over his final five starts as a Seahawk. Now, passer rating isn’t a perfect stat and there is certainly a difference between a “sexy” 93 passer rating and an “ugly” 93 passer rating. It wouldn’t be unfair to put Tarvaris Jackson in that ugly but good category- similar to Alex Smith under Jim Harbaugh.
Still, it was a promising end to the season for Jackson, and the Seahawks “primary model” during the 2012 offseason had Tarvaris Jackson remaining the starter (with competition brought in to push him). Seattle did not plan nor expect to acquire Matt Flynn until his price fell through the floor, and they did not expect third round pick Russell Wilson to be ready to start so quickly. Tarvaris Jackson became the NFL’s best and most expensive 3rd string quarterback. The deal that sent him to Buffalo was in no way an indictment. It saved the team $4 million in cap space which will roll into future cap figures, and it netted the team a draft pick.
Tarvaris Jackson signed back with Buffalo on a one year deal this past February. Contrary to what some people appear to believe, Jackson was never available to Seattle this year as a free agent. Jackson signed with Buffalo because he believed he’d have a real chance to start in 2013. Since then the Bills acquired Kevin Kolb on a pricey two-year contract. It also appears that the Bills are undetered from drafting a franchise quarterback prospect early. Given the large salary difference between Jackson and Kolb and the likely nature of a high draft pick at quarterback, it stands to reason that Jackson is doomed to be a 3rd stringer in Buffalo next season.
Jackson’s cap hit this season is only $1.75 million, which is a very good price for a #2 quarterback. It might be a bit rich for a #3 though, and that could lead to Jackson being cut by the Bills in late August. If Seattle wanted, they could swoop in and sign Jackson then. Obviously, the Seahawks are no stranger to signings in late August and early September. The downside is that Buffalo might not release him at all, and even if they did, Jackson would arrive here without a single preseason rep with the team. That’s hardly ideal for a #2 quarterback. I’d prefer to acquire Jackson before the preseason begins. I’m sure Buffalo would be amenable, especially if it means getting a 2013 draft pick (they only have six of them, and they didn’t receive any compensatory selections). Given the circumstances, I’m sure Buffalo would be all over it if Seattle offered a 7th rounder for Jackson.
It’s funny, because we got a 7th round pick from Buffalo dealing Jackson in the first place. Having lost Buffalo’s 7th in the Harvin trade and gaining two more from compensation picks, Seattle still has a whopping four 7th round picks. No other team has more 7th rounders than Seattle does, and no other roster is tougher for a 7th round pick to make. Is the difference between Matt Leinart / Brady Quinn and Tarvaris Jackson worth one of those 7th rounders? I would say yes. I would say hell yes.
We know what we have in Jackson, he knows our playbook, our offensive coordinator, and all of the team’s leading receivers, including Percy Harvin. We probably won’t win a superbowl with Jackson, but could we go 4-2 with Jackson on this team if Wilson misses six games? I think we could, yes. And don’t forget, Jackson gives us a read option backup. I have to assume he won’t hurt himself on his first keeper during his second go around here. To me, this is a complete no brainer, and while it appears he won’t be a Seahawk this month, I do think he’ll end up a Seahawk again.
Antoine Winfield: the latest victim of NFL ageism
When I first heard about Seattle’s interest in former Vikings corner Antoine Winfield, my initial response was instantly, unthinkingly dismissive. I must confess, I am far from an expert on the NFL outside of my own team. All I saw was an over thirty player at a position where the Seahawks have perpetually attempted to get younger and younger. And with fantastic results in doing so. What sense is there in replacing a 32 year old Marcus Trufant with a soon to be 36 year old Antoine Winfield?
Well after actually looking into Winfield’s track record and situation, I’ve quickly reversed course. He was released last month because 36 year olds that don’t play quarterback almost never make $7.25 million in salary. Winfield is not your average 36 year old though. He’s had 3 pro-bowl seasons and even an all-pro honor, and those seasons occurred during his age 31, 32, and 33 seasons. He did not make the pro-bowl in 2012, but he had one of his best seasons last year at age 35 (more on that in a moment). Obviously, we’re dealing with a late peak player here. Antoine Winfield’s career path is not like most players, so we shouldn’t compare him to the typical mid-thirties player. This always has to be a consideration when dealing with players over 30. You wouldn’t treat a 30 year old London Fletcher the same way you’d treat a 30 year old Lofa Tatupu.
Here’s a highlight video of Winfield. It contains plays throughout his career and lacks anything from the 2012 season, but I still found it informative of his ability.
Yes, this is a highlight video- not a scouting tool- but even from this you can see the physicality, the closing ability, and the tackling ability which are all extremely impressive for any player, especially one well into his 30s.
Winfield may be old, he may be short, and he may be small, but few players can close and finish like he can. In an odd sense Winfield fits what our secondary needs the most- a hyper quick player with the physicality of a big corner. Try to imagine Sherman, Browner, Winfield, and Thurmond in dime formations.
Last year- Winfield’s age 35 season- he had 101 tackles. As a corner. To put that in perspective, rookie sensation Lofa Tatupu had 104 tackles. As a middle linebacker. In Winfield’s fully healthy seasons he’s posted the following tackle numbers: 101, 91, 95, 97, 98, 107, and 80. You’d think a 101 tackle season for a corner would have to be a fluke, but it turns out it’s not. Tackles are a flawed stat and can be a negative indicator for a corner since it implies being targeted more frequently. That said, Pro Football Focus ranked Winfield as the NFL’s #1 run defense corner last year and also noted that he did not allow a touchdown in the passing game all season.
I think it’s telling that Winfield refused a paycut last month. How many soon to be 36 year old defensive backs making $7+ million refuse a pay cut? Obviously, he must still believe he has a lot of good football left. There is a reason why Minnesota is working hard to get him back, and why the Redskins are making a charge as well. It’s not every day you see three playoff teams fighting over a 36 year old corner.
Of course, Seattle could just draft a corner and in doing so get younger while saving a little money. I’m a big fan of Walter Thurmond and adding Winfield would diminish his role on the team. Winfield has some durability concerns as he’s missed significant time in three of his previous six seasons. Seattle doesn’t have a lot of cap room to work with. This is a good year to draft a corner in the mid to late rounds. I get all of that.
But I also think the Seahawks will be a better team with Winfield than without him. This is not your typical mid-thirties free agent we’re talking about here. Winfield would make our defense better. Maybe a lot better.
Edit #1: I just stumbled across the Vikings SBNation reaction to Winfield being released last month, which described the move as “shocking.” It’s not every day you see a fanbase react with shock when a player is released to avoid a $7+ million cap hit during their age 36 season.
Wow.
Wow….it’s still sinking in.
I’ll say it again: wow.
Antoine Winfield has been the anchor of the Vikings‘ secondary for the past nine seasons. He is one of the best tackling cornerbacks in the league. Check that–he’s one of the best tackling cornerbacks in the history of the league. Winfield has been the one consistent force in an otherwise tumultuous stretch of players and quality for Minnesota’s defensive backfield. He had 606 tackles, 21 interceptions, eleven forced fumbles, nine fumble recoveries, five return touchdowns (two fumble returns, two pick sixes, and one blocked field goal return), three Pro Bowls, innumerable big plays, and a partridge in a pear tree over the past nine seasons.
And now he’s gone.
Getting rid of Percy Harvin was one thing. We saw the writing on the wall with our talented malcontent wide receiver. It wasn’t if he would leave the Vikings, it was when. Moving Harvin now while the team could get some solid compensation was understandable.
But Winfield? I’m sorry, but it just doesn’t make sense. He is basically everything you’d ever want in a football player. He’s smart. He’s a leader. He leads by example. And by all accounts, he was even better off the field.
I wonder how Vikings fans will react if Seattle rolls with Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, and Antoine Winfield next season.
Edit #2: Nevermind, they already have an article talking about it, humorously titled “Vikings West Likely To Grab Another Player.”
Just accept it now- in our meeting with Seattle this season, we will face not only Percy Harvin, but now Antoine Winfield as well. Did I mention they also have Heath Farwell and Sidney Rice?
Did I mention that the Seahawks have over $3 million dollars more than we do in cap space? Because that’s pretty important, too.
A few green comments in that second article:
Seattle really pisses me off…
and…
Winfield a Seahawk? Disturbing.
In general, it sounds as though Vikings fans desperately want Winfield back, even if he is a soon to be 36 year old nickle corner.
The thing I like about adding a vet lik Winfield or Woodson at corner is we wouldn’t be as exposed to an injury or suspension to are corner tandem. I’d rather not have another big game with Lane, maxwell starting I’d feel more comfortable with a vet taking that spot. I like Thurmond to but he gets hurt a lot so looking else were for CB insurance might be wise.
But what if Lane is better than Winfield or Woodson? He sure looked good last season in his start.
I have faith that Pete will always choose the best player to play, he has proven that with Wilson over Flynn. I don’t think Lane is better then Winfield or Woodson and most people agree corner is an area of need for us. I will say our D did just fine with lane and maxwell during browners absence last year so there is that.
From the 2nd Vikings article:
http://www.juanelway.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Richard-Sherman-North-Korea.jpg
That is awesome!
Hilarious!
I’m 100% with you on a Tavaris Jackson trade as it makes sense on so many levels it almost seems like a no-brainer. One thing that gives me pause however, is how he would feel about the trade himself. While I realize that he would technically have no say in the matter, it would still be an issue for me. It’s easy from here on the sidelines to assume that football is just a business and that there are no feelings involved, but clearly there are. If Tavaris can come here and forget that he would be backing up the same 3rd round QB that beat him out for the starting position which resulted in his being traded just one short season ago, than he is a better man than me. But if he can, this would be the backup QB situation that I would prefer, especially considering the alternatives.
On Antoine Winfield, I think I’m kind of ambivalent. If he can play at the level he did last season and the Seahawks didn’t have to pay him too much, I would be all for it. For me though, I’m still having a hard time getting over his age. My worry is that this will be the season where he hits the proverbial wall and that signing him will end up being an epic failure. I guess I’m remembering all the other players who in the twilights of their careers came here and didn’t contribute.
You make an interesting point regarding Jackson coming back here, but you could look at in the positive sense too. He would be going from being Mr. Irrelevant (rejected even as a 3rd stringer in Buffalo – ouch) to being an injury away from redeeming himself with the last team to reject him, and winning at a high level with a Superbowl contender.
I think you’re overly pessimistic on Winfield too. There’s no reason to believe he’s going to fall off a cliff this coming season. At least there’s no evidence. I’ll quote the drunk guy in the movie Groundhog Day to sum up my response, “Some guys would look at this glass of beer and say it’s half empty. Some guys would say it’s half full. I’m guessing you’re a half empty type of guy.”
Aaron:
My point about Jackson potentially returning to Seattle was simply that were I in his shoes, I personally would expect the prospect of my return under those circumstances to be a pride swallowing experience. I would probably feel a lot different if I were being traded to a Superbowl contending team to be the backup QB among players that I wasn’t as familiar with. But all of this is based on my own life experience and I am not an NFL player. I suppose for some players in the league, being demoted, traded and cut from teams is a matter of routine which is why I qualified my observation by saying that if he could deal with it, it was the scenerio that I most preferred.
As for the potential Winfield aquisition, my point is that there is a certain amount of risk associated with it. I don’t necessarily see acknowledging that fact as being pessimistic as much as I see it as excercising due caution. Currently, Winfield’s asking price is $5M for one season. At that price and if the decision were mine, I wouldn’t even consider signing him. If however, the Seahawks were able to get him at a bargain price, then that risk might be worth assuming.
I wasn’t dismissing your point about Jackson, that’s why I said it’s interesting. I just think there are some real positive aspects to returning.
I agree with you about the price tag. It’s a major consideration. Maybe he’s willing to play for a relative bargain in order to contend for a championship.
No worries. I just wasn’t sure if I was entirely clear in my earlier post.
Look at this:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9152489/seattle-seahawks-trying-sign-brady-quinn-sources
This doesn’t mean he will ultimately be the backup, but he will be competing for the job. While this isn’t exciting news for me, all I can say is that at least it isn’t Leinert!
Tavaris has been swallowing his pride for his entire career. I think I may prefer Thigpen to him but it’s really a toss up. Tavaris is definitely tough and his teammates respect him for his ability to swallow his pride.
As for Winfield, I think he could be an asset to this team. Not only from a performance standpoint but from a leadership standpoint in the secondary. Sherm needs someone to help him learn how to be a professional. I love the guy but it feels like he is a risk to make himself bigger than the team if he keeps on the path he’s been walking. There is no one in our secondary who can really show him some perspective. Sure lots of guys on our team have found success after coming from nowhere but not the way Sherm has. I really think that Woodson may be the better fit in this respect because he has been outspoken and abrasive in the past but managed to put things into perspective as he has gotten older while still playing at a high level. Simply put, I think he needs a mentor who he can look up to. Either of these guys could take on that roll.
A 7th round pick for a starting Nu 2 QB I’m all in for T.J. who could be our Charlie Batch.
As a BILLS fan I don’t think we’d be interested in trading Jackson. Reasons:
#1) Our new HC publicly stated just the other day that he wants (specifically) 2 vets + 1rookie to battle it out in an open QB competition. Losing Jackson means we would have to find ANOTHER vet QB, and there aren’t any out there… as you’re finding out
#2) Seattle was a motivated seller last year for salary cap reasons, and cause he was an expendable resource (QB3), I doubt Buddy Nix (our GM) has much incentive to make a deal since that effectively GIVES Kolb the starting job and undermines the publicly stated plans of his brand new Head Coach. Besides, we’re WAY under the cap this year, so who cares if Jackson sits on the bench and soaks us for some cash? (He did last year too).
All that said, if Nix were fielding offers I bet it would be in the late rd3- rd4 range, as that’s the last point we could draft a QB we’re interested in (Jones or Bray might still be available)… and that’s obviously a non-starter I assume.
A 3rd or 4th? If all the Hawks can get for Flynn is a couple of 5th rounders and all the Cardinals can get for Palmer is a 7th rounder next year, I seriously doubt anyone would even think of giving up a 3rd or 4th for T-Jack.
Seriously?
I am partially with you. I don’t think the Bills are interested in trading Jackson right now. However if the Bills draft a QB at some point in the draft, I think they’d be very interested in trading Jackson for a 7 in 2014. Yes, there will be a competition between Jackson and Kolb, but it seems Kolb would have the upper hand. Last year, I don’t think Jackson even dressed for any games. If the Bills like Tyler Thigpen more than T-Jack, they will be a lot more receptive to trading him than you’re letting on.
While the Bills may go through the motions and pretend there is a QB competition, I think it’s clear who they’re betting on to win it. If they draft a QB, I’m guessing T-Jack will be traded or cut. You just don’t pay a 3rd QB $2.25M when you can fill the position with a project QB and save $1.5M. While we fans may sometimes forget that this is real money we’re talking about, I’m pretty sure that the owners do not. I know if this were my money and Nix treated it with such blatant disregard, he and I would have some problems to work out.
I still keep thinking about those couple of games that we lost in dime packages: DET and ATL playoff game especially, that had we had Winfield, I think those two outcomes would be very different.
I think if we’d had a pass rush those games would’ve been different.
That too.
Don’t forget the game against the Rams. Toward the end of it I would say to myself, “Oh no it’s 3rd and 12. We’re dead meat.” First Down!
TJ is under contract for 1.25 million in 2013. I like that number, so it becomes all about compensation. The Bills just signed Kolb, and have the draft where I think they will grab another guy. I think given time, the Bills are going to cut TJ.
So, we wait.
Winfield would be great. The fact that he refused a paycut makes me wonder why he would be willing to sign a much lower contract for one year here.
Why wait? Stay proactive, especially if the cost is minimal(7th RD draft pick) we have 4 of them and like Rob pointed out previously, having him in camp will give the team more time to prepare & room to adjust. Its sure to prove to be a huge advantage having that much needed time rather than scambling and picking him up later down the road, that is of course if another team doesnt pull the trigger before the Hawks do. Its a 7th RD pick dude, 7th… C’mon Man
scrambling*
I would think if he join Seattle it would be for a chance to get a superbowl ring and at 36 years old the opportunities start to dwindle. It may not be an issue about money but how he ends up finishing his career.
It’s always about the money, at least for the most part. The NFL is a brutal, risky endeavor that can end your career on any given play. Sure, he wants to come to a winning team but that doesn’t mean he’s ready to sign for league minimum, at least not if he can avoid it. But given a choice between options at that level of reimbursement, hopefully the team Seattle has put together as well as all the other amenities can sway him.
I think the likelihood of running the read-option with your 2nd string QB is low. Do you really want to chance it losing another QB?
TJ is a nice choice for a backup, but Thigpen put up a nearly average QBR in 2008, so he might even be better. But if the other guys are looking better in competition… it paid off for us last season and it’s way different than the Casper Wells analogy IMO.
It’s not just the chance of running the read option. It’s about going into a game with a plan built around the strengths of Russell Wilson. A plan that was shared by the team and practiced and repeated all week long and being completely ready to go.
Then you get to game time and Russ gets the wind knocked out of him and has to sit out two drives, or a quarter, you don’t want Bevel to have to rip up the game plan and have to pick and choose new plays that the backup can run. Granted, the backup is unlikely to put up a Wilson type performance, but you want someone who can run them and make them work. So long story short, the backup needs to have the capability of running every play Wilson can run, even the read option.
No, the backup needs to go in and manage the game, giving the team a chance to win. You don’t risk injuring your backup or you’re down to your 3rd string QB.
I like what Dobbs said. Everyone knows Brady is not the complete quarterback. He may be very incomplete, in fact. But if he has to come in, in a pinch (knock on wood), the play calling will be made in such a way to minimize his weaknesses and emphasize his strengths, while he relies on the strong players around him to manage a decent offense. I think that’s the goal.
A point Carroll has made in his tenure is that you don’t NEED to have a great quarterback to have a shot at winning. The Seahawks earned the NFC West Title in 2010 with Charlie Whitehurst under center. How did they handle him? Run. Short pass. Run. Run. Short pass.
Long story shorter, I don’t think Brady is going to be asked to do any thing Russell-esque. If Russell goes down for four games (knock on wood knock on wood) can Brady help us win two of them? With this coaching staff I think that’s realistic.
You are probably right about Quinn. But since Carroll and Schneider took over, they have been doggedly methodical about incremental improvement. They needed rid of Flynn’s contract but they also needed to get more athletic. They held a competition amongst the most athletic passers left in free agency and selected the winner who makes a vast upgrade over an empty chair. If they have the option to draft/sign/trade for someone who will be another step up in the QB2 role, they will do it. The ultimate goal will be to have someone who can run the game plan as written. They aren’t signing a stiff drop back QB to manage games, they want continuity. Quinn is a stopgap who will last a camp or a season, who knows, but they are already researching upgrades. Schneider likes to draft a QB every year. Maybe they won’t be able to run the full Wilson offense but if that ends up being the case, they’ll make do until they can.
I’d love to sign Winfield, but I’d rather roll that cap money into next year rather than overpay.
Oh, and one more thing Kip:
Casper Wells was a mediocre talent on a team full of mediocre players. Don’t use Dave Cameron logic, it will destroy you from within.
LOL. Dave Cameron has excellent logic, it is other areas where he lacks. Casper Wells is something like a 1.5 WAR player and was dirt cheap. I think he was actually one of our more valuable players last year. You are right though, who cares. The Mariners will stink either way. I just think I’d rather see our team make the best decision as often as possible.
We shouldn’t have given Fister away for essentially Casper Wells. That was dumb. We shouldn’t give every pitcher away just cause we have good ones in our farm system.
Yeah, the Fister deal really hurt, and that was before he got even better after leaving.
You can gauge how good a former Viking is by the number of “Seahawks take all our players” comments divided by the number of “This is still the poison pill” comments. The values on Harvin and Winfield are through the roof on that score. In all seriousness, signing him is a no brainer, its only a question of whether or not he’ll accept the amount of cap they have left.
“Dream Team” —if he signs, get ready for the dullards responses. I’m starting to think this is actually a badge of honor.
“Championship!” —no, seriously.
Great article Kip. I agree on both fronts, and that’s saying something because I’ve never been a big supporter of Jackson, but I agree he would be the best back up for us. It just makes sense.
Regarding the potential acquisition of Winfield, I’ve been a big supporter of drafting Tyrann Mathieu. I’ve been of the strong belief that PC/JS will target him aggressively in the draft. Bringing in Winfield would make that less likely, but I have no problem with that.
If Winfield plays for us the way he has played the last few years, he would be a huge addition to this defense. Any help against the run is big for us. (Not that that is all he does.)
As far as backup QB’s what does it take to get someone off of someone elses practice squad? Do you just have to garentee that player a roster spot? Kip I know you and Rob were very high on Chandler Harnish last year as was I. I believe he is sitting on the Colts practice squad and it seems he would be an Ideal backup for DangerRuss. Dual threat QB with great intangibles and on the super cheap. He was another one of those players who seemed to have all the tools but was just too short (albeit a couple inches taller than Wilson), possibly explaining why he didn’t make the team.
TJack makes a lot of sense. Has experience and a similar skill set to RW.
As said, his attitude might be the most important to consider. But heh, a backup on a familiar team with friends, or a 3rd stringer in cold Buffalo…I’d easily take Seattle! And like was said, one RW injury, and he is the man again! He would have to consider that as a plus…
Antoine? Heck yes! IF the price is right… He looks mean and nasty with his hits, a little Cam like, and his quickness would make me feel much better when in dime coverage…
As far as the labels go, ‘dream team’ and such, those are only words and have nothing to do with the reality of what Carroll and JS have done here, which is build a monster of a team!!!
Go Hawks!
Rob/Kip – doesn’t Lane profile better as an outside corner than slot?
I’d love to get Winfield for the right price. I think he’d only help improve the play of our younger DB’s as well as being solid in our run defense (nickle rush defense would be great!). Great read on him Kip.
I think the slot corner role is the hardest position to play on defense. Essentially, you will get beat fairly often… it’s about recovery and tackling. I tend to prefer Lane outside because he’s fast.
Very true, this is also why a guy like Winfield can make a difference because it’s about pre-snap diagnosis and immediately reacting to where the play is likely coming, assuming he hasn’t lost too much of a step for it to still make a difference, which I think is unlikely at least for next year, maybe 2.
everyone says we love big tall receivers and I believe this is true but all the nickel and dime packages we always had smaller, quicker, and more agile CB to play the middle of the field. I think this is because you can’t use the sidelines to help you.
ACK meant CB.
That is one of the funniest pictures I’ve ever seen.
I’m curious how he kept his hair dry as well. What a true superman.
ESPN’s Ed Werder reports the Seahawks were “most impressed” with Brady Quinn at Monday’s four-QB tryout, and hope to sign him as Russell Wilson’s backup.
Yikes
And… done.
Mike Garafolo@MikeGarafolo
Sounds like Seattle will be signing Brady Quinn.
I hope Josh Portis wins the competition for backup QB over Quinn. Portis always looked good despite very limited opportunities. And he is young and possesses the physical attributes to develop into a QB prospect that other teams would covet…
I am doubting the competition is going to be between Brady and Josh. I’m thinking the Hawks are going to draft a quarterback on Day 3, maybe Sean Renfree, and give him a shot at it. Josh Portis only makes this team if he shows significant improvement since last time he was here, I think.
Not that he didn’t play well in preseason. But obviously the Hawks weren’t thrilled about him because they cut him… from the practice squad.
Completely agree. Seattle will enter August with 4 quarterbacks.
It doesn’t surprise me that the Seahawks picked Quinn from the tryout. He has the most physical ability and what few times I have heard him interviewed, he seems really bright and well-spoken. I suspect that Russell Wilson spent a little time with each guy, to gauge who he might work with the best. That part of the process, we have no clue, but a better QB room is surely one of the improvements that Pete was looking for. We don’t know what Matt Flynn was like behind closed doors, but his body language on the field seemed really disengaged. We will see who wins out between Quinn and Josh Portis. The Seahawks will likely try to stash a rookie on the practice squad, for they will carry only two on the 53 man roster again this year.
Except Russell Wilson has been in LA with his WR’s…
Enjoy and respect your work Kip, but I suppose the big question is: at what price? That holds for the backup QB (reportedly Quinn) and the potential of signing Winfield.
With Quinn it’s fairly obvious that the front office is looking less for a QB who can step on the field as much as a “study buddy” for RW. That is certainly the backup QB model Schneider saw employed in Green Bay, with the likes of Doug Peterson who played caddy to Brett Favre.
With Winfield, as I noted in the prior thread, it’s not just about talent and skill with Winfield. His health is already a question. I don’t think you add that kind of uncertainty to WT3 unless it can be done cheaply. Maybe after the draft Winfield comes down in price.
The Hawks interest in Winfield makes me wonder if Thurmond is becoming an uncertainty for next year. It’d really be a shame because Thurmond is a solid player when healthy.
WT3 is not a certainty because he can’t stay healthy. He has yet to prove he can stay healthy for any substantial length of time. He is completely unreliable as a player at this point. This is pretty much his last chance as a Seahawk. If he can’t stay on the field, his NFL career is done.
Thanks Dave.
I won’t call JS dishonest, but I think it’s interesting that he claims to have been comfortable paying Matt Flynn more than $7 million as the team’s backup this year, then turns around and signs the cheapest replacement he can possibly find, even as better and slightly more expensive alternatives are out there.
My guess is that the team doesn’t really want Quinn to be the #2 guy. They just wanted someone with experience to come in and compete. I think their best case scenario is that Josh Portis steps up or that their 2013 QB draft pick steps up and earns the job. They probably didn’t want a backup veteran that would be too challenging to beat out.
With Winfield, price matters, of course. We have no idea what that price is, but if it’s low, to me it’s a no brainer. Winfield stayed healthy for 16 games last year because Minnesota used him in a reduced role. Seattle has the personnel to give him the same treatment. Even if he does get hurt, we have the depth to compensate.
Here is an interesting piece about how Brady Quinn viewed Tim Tebow. I just thought it is suggestive about Quinn as a person, not in a negative way or positive way, but it’s interesting. Well, at least the first two minutes of it is. Then Skip Bayless starts talking. Haha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=rIyWc35E0oU&NR=1
I know I’m late to the party, and someone may have already touched on this, but I don’t feel a bit bad or Minnesota. In fact, I’m glad. After all, they snaked Hutch in the prime of his career with some bull contract wording, a real snake move. So I wouldn’t mind gutting all the talent on their team. I mean they got the best interior lineman in football, and we got stuck with Alexander- the biggest wuss. I always saw for as mean and violent as Hutch was, Alexander was that weak and soft.