Are the Seahawks finished adding pass rushers?
Written by Kip Earlywine
(Before you read any further, be sure to scroll down and check out my post explaining why Bruce Irvin wasn’t a reach at #15 if you haven’t already.)
Considering that we whiffed on the easiest part of the draft, I don’t know if there is much hope for projecting things going forward. Oh well. As they say, “nothing ventured nothing gained.”
Vinny Curry in round two? A commenter in my initial reaction thread made an interesting claim. I have no idea if there is any substance to it. In fact, I’d probably put the odds against any rumors having much substance right now. But what he said was still interesting just the same. He claimed that Vinny Curry was the other pass rusher that really interested Seattle. I find that interesting because like Rob, I’ve long felt that Curry was one of the draft’s most overlooked pass rushers. I’d go so far as to say that Vinny Curry is the closest thing you will find in this draft to a young Chris Clemons. In terms of size and physique they are very similar, and both have similar quickness and pass rush repertoire. Or to put it another way, Vinny Curry is the kind of complete pass rusher that Nick Perry wishes he could be.
Now, I don’t think Curry will last to #43. Even if he gets close, the Bills are probably going to have some interest in him, and that might be as far as he gets. But forget about pesky things like probabilities and for just a few minutes let’s talk about possibilities instead.
If (for argument’s sake) it’s true that Seattle holds Vinny Curry in high (1st round) regard, then obviously they’d find him to be a terrific value at #43. And while the team already added Bruce Irvin in round one, Bruce Irvin isn’t just here to replace Chris Clemons, he’s here to compliment Chris Clemons. There’s a problem though. Chris Clemons is 30 years old and turns 31 in October. He’s also a free agent to be after this next season. If Clemons is indeed a goner after 2012, then Seattle could end up back to square one with the pass rush, and that’s even if Bruce Irvin pans out.
Seattle doesn’t have to add another pass rusher this year. They can hope that one of Dexter Davis or Jameson Konz pans out as Seattle’s future second pass rusher. But if a pass rusher they have graded in the first round is sitting there at #43, whether it’s Vinny Curry or Courtney Upshaw or Andre Branch, will they pass on that? I wonder. This front office has to be prepared to draft a quarterback early next year if their current experiment doesn’t pan out. Having a big need at pass rusher for the second year in a row would be an unwanted distraction.
Any “out of left field” picks possible? Certainly. This front office is fairly transparent in their methods, but their picks have remained very difficult to pin down beforehand. I’ve been thinking for a while that Seattle’s second round pick is the “wildcard” in this year’s deck. While I strongly believe that running back and linebacker will remain priorities in this draft, the #43 pick is likely going to have a few options available with first round talent at a variety of positions. It’s a great place in this draft for the Seahawks to simply scoop up the best talent available. With this being a deep draft for both running backs and linebackers, Seattle could probably get away with putting off those needs one more round, especially since they picked up that extra 4th rounder. Don’t be completely shocked if they make another surprise pick at #43. It also wouldn’t surprise me if they traded down again, as this is a very deep draft that will pump out quality players for many rounds to come.
Some of the players I’ll be keeping an eye on tomorrow:
WR:
Reuben Randle. Seattle is deep at receiver, but they lack starting quality players. Randle carries a 1st round grade for some.
Stephen Hill. Was all the pre-draft hype just that?
Alshon Jeffery. I know Jeffrey isn’t fast, but he does a lot of things very well.
Mohamed Sanu. Yet another fringe first round option that could become a value pick.
TE:
Coby Fleener. I think he’ll reunite with Andrew Luck in Indianapolis, but considering that Fleener’s stock appeared to be falling in the final weeks of the draft’s run-up, it wouldn’t completely shock me if he made it to our pick. The Seahawks don’t really have a second tight end that’s proven right now, so Fleener has some appeal, even if his blocking skills have drawn a few harsh reviews.
Dwayne Allen. The Seahawks are nothing if unconventional at evaluating players. It wouldn’t shock me if Fleener wasn’t their top tight end.
Orson Charles. same deal.
OL:
Jonathan Martin. Martin isn’t an elite talent, but he’s a very good talent and I’m frankly blown away that he escaped the first round. He’ll likely be the first pick of the second round (St. Louis), but as of now, he’s still a possibility. Seattle is a longshot to add a lineman this early, but Martin deserved to go top ten in the minds of some, and Seattle’s situation on the line is far from settled. Right now an awful lot of this team’s success is hinging on Breno Giacomini, a lot more than I’m comfortable with (and I like the guy). Russell Okung is injury cursed until he proves otherwise. And James Carpenter’s injury health is concerning as well (he’s not expected to fully recover until the 2013 season).
Mike Adams. Another value at offensive tackle.
Cordy Glenn. Yet another value at offensive tackle. Where were options like these last year when it counted?
Peter Konz. Seattle doesn’t need a center, but Konz is such a good talent that it might be worth finding a way for him on the roster alongside Max Unger in the interior.
Kelechi Osemele. Another quality interior line option.
Amini Silatolu. Raw but talented. Just the kind of player the Seahawks like.
QB:
Brock Osweiler. I’d rather not, personally.
Kirk Cousins. Please no.
Russell Wilson. After seeing Irvin go in the first, nothing would surprise me at this point.
RB:
Lamar Miller. To me, Miller is the best non-Richardson back in the draft.
LaMichael James. A great change of pace option with under-rated strength, interior rushing ability, and toughness. May possibly have every down potential.
Chris Polk. Don’t be shocked if he goes round two. A team like the Packer’s could have some interest.
Robert Turbin. Could be worth keeping an eye on in round three.
Bernard Pierce. same deal.
DT:
Brandon Thompson. One of the best pass rushing defensive tackles in the draft.
Devon Still. A fringe first round prospect, he could fall even further in a crowded field of DTs.
Jerel Worthy. Worthy is a hot and cold player, but when he’s on, he’s dominant.
Kendall Reyes. Another good option at DT.
DE/Pass Rusher:
Courtney Upshaw. I’d love to get Upshaw at #43. What a fun defense that would be, with Irvin, Clemons, and Upshaw shuffling all over the front seven.
Vinny Curry. Chris Clemons 2.0.
Andre Branch. I’m not as impressed by Branch as most, but he’s got long arms and knows how to use them.
LB:
Ronnell Lewis. Lewis feels like a long shot, but he’s one of my favorite SAM linebacker options in the draft.
Zach Brown. I don’t know what to believe right now, but whether or not our source was right about Brown, you have to admit that Brown does fit the profile of a Pete Carroll pick.
Mychal Kendricks. Maybe I’m crazy, but it feels like everyone is sleeping on Kendricks’ stock suddenly. Could he be a possibility in round three?
Bobby Wagner. I find him to be “meh”, but even I’ll admit that Wagner seems like exactly the kind of linebacker Pete wants manning the middle of his defense.
Sean Spence. A playmaker who makes mistakes.
Lavonte David. I doubt David makes it to us. But man, if he does and the Seahawks aren’t all over it, it better be for a damn good reason.
CB:
Janoris Jenkins. Seattle doesn’t really need a corner that badly, and Jenkins has serious character concerns, but he’s also seriously talented. To me he’s a top 10 pick in terms of talent.
S:
George Iloka. Iloka’s a stud. I doubt Seattle would draft him in rounds two or three, but I’ll still be watching him hoping that he’ll still be around tomorrow.
Kip, after the surprise of Irvin anything can happen. This is the second year now that I was hoping for Seattle to spice up their draft and add the names we all thought should be selected (Upshaw, Ingram, Coples) well after round 1 I am once again stunned by the selection and will keep a wait and see attitude. Im not down on Bruce Irvin or even dispute he has the speed we are looking for just like I stated earlier a little stunned.
With that stated, I agree the front office could really surprise us fans and analysts again by addressing a RB,QB with the next pick. Again, I would not be surprised and if they did go that route I would hope they were looking at L Miller, Polk or Turbin but also see Polk and Turbin as later 2nd rounders. I would not suggest a QB here because this position brings no immediate factor to the team. I would rather have them address the WR position like you mentioned and go after Jeffrey from SC but he may not slip to us as Colts, Brown, Panthers and Dolphins could all go in that direction. The reason I am high on Jeffrey is because the last two years he was beating Kirkpatrick, Barron and Claiborne in the SEC. His size is coveted by most of Pete’s requirements and he makes plays. (Bottom Line)
However, I personally think we really need to add more attacking defensive players to get to the QB, whether thats Updhaw, Young, L David, Z Brown, R Lewis or Massaquoi I dont care we just need to attack defensively and disrupt the opponents QB something we have not done with consistency for some years.
My list of targets would be one of these two: (dependent on availability of course)
2 Alshon Jeffrey or Courtney Upshaw
3 Massaquoi or Robert Turbin
4 Ronnie Hillman or Nick Toon
4. Russell Wison or Vontaze Burfict
6. Vontaze Burfict or Donte Paige Moss
7. Antonio Allen or Eddie Whitley
Clayton.
I read somewhere that the following exchange between Lavonte David and a scout was overheard. Something to the effect of: Scout, “what is your best attribute?” Lavonte David: “Probably my smartness”.
I’ll see if I can find it somewhere. Between being undersized and that response, my interest has cooled a bit. 🙂
Before free agency and the first round of the draft, many fans (myself included) saw improved (1) pass rush and (2) QB play as the two biggest needs for the Seahawks to address. So, with Irvin as our #1 pick and with the signing of Flynn, I’m a happy camper.
At #43, I’d like to see the Seahawks pick an every-down player who will improve the pass rush. If Irvin turns out to be as good as I hope he will be, I expect some teams will go no-huddle just to try to keep him off the field. I think that Kendricks would be an interesting pick — he can play inside and outside and with his speed (wish they would show 10-yd. splits instead of 40s) I can see him amping up the pass rush.
Ignoring need, if Fleener was there at #43, I’d jump all over him. But, he won’t get past the Colts next pick.
Upshaw @43 is a very real possibility.
At #43 I’m hoping one of Glenn, Konz, Curry or Upshaw is still available.
LaVonte Davi, wouldn’t be a bad pick to add at linebacker, but I could see Carroll going for another pass rusher in round two to just be able to bring the heat against other teams.
Adding another offensive lineman to help with Carpenter transitioning full-time to left guard or a stud center like Konz could be a huge pick-up.
Konz will be a huge steal whoever gets him. Upshaw, I think he lands in Baltimore. That would be a fantastic fit for player and team. Tons of talent in R2 makes me wonder if Seattle trades down again.
What about packaging their 4s and moving back up in round 2?
So we pick 11th, right?
David, Upshaw, Brown, Glenn, Randle, Silotulo, Jerrery, Still, Fleener, Allen, Curry, Hill…
We will still have a talent available to us. the thing I found most interesting as the end of the draft neared was the extremely small price teams were having to pay to move up in the draft. I think our 2nd and 7th at this point would get us in the top 5 of the 2nd round and in position to possibly draft Upshaw or David.
@ Rob or Kip: If you have time, can you expound a bit on how the defense would look if Upshaw were to get drafted still? Irvin would rush in Brocks place on 3rd downs. Would Upshaw come in as Sam and move Wright to MLB? Would Upshaw go in (If he beats out Ruud obviously) as Mike and just be a 3 down attacking MLB?
I can’t see the Seahawks going pass rusher again in R2.
Interesting. I would think they would want someone behind Red. In fact, I am more wanting Upshaw now with Irvin than before. Maybe I’m a contrarian through and through, but man, Upshaw on the left with Irvin on the right. Damn.
Good list, Kip. Crazy value at OL seeing so many quality players fall to the second round like that – Bills and Cards must be delighted. It’ll be fun to see where Silatolu ends up – he’s sort of this year’s Iupati.
Bruce Irvin was on my short list of most coveted players. I was excited to wake up this morning in Europe and see we’d got him. One of the reasons I thought the Seahawks might *not* take an Upshaw/Ingram in the first was because I saw them preferring Irvin in the second. That we were able to trade back a bit and get some extra picks takes some of the sting off the reach. It’s be funny if we ended up taking Fleener in the second and we’d end up with same two players I hoped for, but in reverse order.
If it’s not Fleener in the second I’d like to see one of the LBs I like – Kendricks, David, or Lewis – or RB Miller. In the third, Crick or Polk.
I like a trade back option. Moving back just 5 or 6 slots would net us another 4th. 3 or 4 and we pick up a 5th. With all the talent left available, I would love to see 2 small trades backward. Who knows we may still land one of David, Brown, Curry, Lewis, Kendricks, Upshaw, Branch, Worthy, Still from the front 7. Or Glenn, Martin, Adams, Konz, Osemele, on the O-Line. Maybe Fleener, Hill, Randle, Jeffrey as a TD maker. And finally Johnson, and Jenkins to improve our allready great DB’s. That’s 20 players that I would draft at #11 in the second round. Trading back only adds picks and does not take away value from where the Hawks sit at the moment.
@Michael
why do we need a replacement for Red(Upshaw) when we just gave him Millions? Upshaw is to slow to play OLB and we already have a Run stopping DE in Bryant. If we wanted to Upgrade Bryant we would have let him go during FA.
Prediction – Carroll is going to use that extra 4th to move up into the top 5 picks of the 2nd round. The guy he wants will be there.
I definitely feel we need to continue to add talent to the defense. The defense needs to be a done deal by next year so we can go all in for Barkley. I wouldn’t be against adding RB or OL talent because that would help eliminate the amount Flynn would effect the offense and conversely, the overall game. So keeping him from doing too much aside from handing the ball off would be a boon. I do feel that Brown has been scratched with the Irvin pick, because the only way Brown would’ve made sense would be if we had drafted someone who was solid in run support with our 1st. Brown is not physical and a sorry tackler. So I hope Upshaw, Kendricks, Wagner, or some other physical presence being the call for round 2. David is just a bigger version of Brown, and had limited success on the field. Although his workouts and measurables were off the charts.
I would love to nab Kendricks here. Either that, or if Carroll really wants one of the fallers, move up and nab him. I think and hope LB is the pick.
Would love to see Cordy Glenn picked up at #43 as it would be great value and give us some needed depth/versatility. Sounds like he fits the mold of what Tom Cable is looking for in a lineman (massive size, well above average athleticism, and the ability to move around the line). Value wise I think it would be a good move since OL seems to have slipped more in this draft than most others.
Lamar Miller would be a good addition as well, as I think his style best compliments Beast Mode. I would hope for another small trade down first if that were going to be the pick. Can you imagine the Seahawks run game with Okung back, another year of seasoning/time together for the rest of the line (excluding Moffit and Carpenter for the most part…) and Miller’s home run speed slicing through a worn out defense that has spent the day being punished by Marshawn Lynch? In a word: Awesome.
The reason I think the Hawks may never trade up is because they grade players in such a way that they do not have to worry about going up to get anyone. This is not saying they overrate players, they just don’t loose their heads about anyone. Now if it comes to the late second or third and their is one player left in a class of their own according to the Hawks board, then we may see some form of trade up.
I wouldn’t mind another highly ranked WR. I have a feeling we will be looking for that second receiver next year, but our draft picks will be tied up in a first round QB. That’s not to say FLYNN won’t be great, but he is going to sort out our receivers in a hurry.
I think there are enough players they will consider drafteable at 43 that they won’t move up. Between Brown, David, Miller, Glenn, Hill, Konz, or maybe even someone like Polk/Upshaw/J Martin, there’s still a lot of good talent/value.
Nice summary, Kip.
I hear some calling for a trade-back in the 2nd, and I don’t think that would be worth it. There are some very talented players available in the first 11 picks of the 2nd, but I think there’s a pretty steep drop that happens in the middle of the round. Whoever you pick up with that 4th round pick won’t have Lavonte David, Lamar Miller, or Vinny Curry type attributes. If a first round talent drops to us in the second, we have to snag him — ESPECIALLY considering that we took a questionable first round talent at 15.
We need a Mike in Rd 2 no doubt. There will be plenty of RB’s left in rd 3. Either we get the best OLB available and move KJ inside or pick a Mike and keep KJ where he is. If the Hawks are smart they will pick a LB in rd 2. RB in Rd 3. Then we got 2 4th’s sweeet. What should we do in Rd 4? Any thoughts?
1Irvin
2 David
3 Polk
4CB
4 OL
That seems like a reasonable approach. Rb Cyrus Gray should be available in the fourth. Of perhaps a young dt.
Kip, I agree with you on Ronnell Lewis. He is in the same mold as Upshaw in terms of violent, intimidating hits. You can see him get into the head of QB’s without drawing flags like Burfict.
For running backs, I would replace Peirce with Isiah Pead. I don’t really see anything special about Pierce. No major laws either though. Pead is a home run threat whenever he touches the ball. Very good reciever, return man and I think very underrated between the tackles. He might not be able to handle 20 carries a game but as long as Lynch stays healthy he seems like a really good compliment that could be had in round three or four.
I would be excited if the rest of the draft looked like this:
2. P. Konz or R. Randle
3. B. Wagner MLB
4. R. Wilson QB
4. I. Pead (Beavis and Butthead are giggling in my head while typing that)
6. M. Burris OLB
6. W. Blackwell G
7. T. Thompson TE (He is converting from DE. 6’6″, 4.55 40 and reportedly looks really natural at the position. Not stiff and has good hands.)
Numb, that is how I felt with our selection at the time last night. Today I am ok with it. Going into this draft I figured we would get 2 starters, 2 rotational players and overall depth. Irvin will be a starter, check. So we are on track so far. What I hate is the national pundits ripping the Seattle Seahawks and now for the second year in a row. Bottom line is I have faith in PC/JS. As an arm chair GM I dont understand and as a fan it’s dissapointing but the goal is 2 starters and 2 rotational players. I have no idea what they will do tonight but I trust them.
2nd- Upshaw, Curry or David
3rd- Polk or R. Lewis
Upshaw and Polk without having to trade up is my ideal scenario for tonight
I just don’t see what is making everyobe so in love with David. He is ubdersized and made most of his splash plays in space. He is a liability in coverage for an OLB and I believe Carroll had said he has no interest in moving Wright to MLB. Also it’s been fairly clear that Irvin is not a starter, he will be a situational 3rd down or obvious passing situation player. He will not replace Red or Clemons. So we got and impact player but certainly not a 3 down starter. I believe
we have a chance to draft a 3 down starter in the second. But David nor Brown will be 3 down starters next year. We have another opportunity to make some noise so let’s not go for another situational limited option splash player.
Great article Kip.
I’m totally behind you on Ronnell Lewis. Looking at the clips he’s a LB by nature and I think he was playing a bit hurt as well?
Some random thoughts:
Is Glenn really athletic enough for a zone OL?
Kelechi Osemele. That guy is a handfull for a DL.
I would probably rank them like this (no need consideration)
C Upshaw
P Konz
Dwayne Allen
Martin
L Miller
Osemele
L David
D Still
Anyway you cut it, we have some great players left at the board come pick#43.
R Lewis
R Lewis
Uhm yeah, that a bit of a formating fuck up by me…. R Lewis at the end of the list.
I think it’ll be Iloka or Martin, just a hunch